The Results Of MY Glue Test...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 เม.ย. 2022
- Of course the glue stuff is in response to the video that Wandel made where he tested a bunch of glues, but used the wrong type of construction adhesive. And to the best of my knowledge (because he's used it before) he already knows the difference, so I suspect some shenanigans.
Fact is while it isn't quite as strong as regular wood glue, it's certainly strong enough for any kind of woodworking - fine or rough.
I use it for several reasons, chief among them is that it works in a cold shop and takes longer to set. You can pull off the most complex glue-ups with plenty of time to position parts and get it clamped. It also doesn't have water so it doesn't swell the wood like regular glue does. As a result tighter joints can be put together with this glue - it actually lubricates the wood.
It's waterproof and my favourite for putting together box joints.
It doesn't drip all over the place and can easily fill any gap your lack of woodworking talent produces :)
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Of course the glue stuff is in response to the video that Wandel made where he tested a bunch of glues, but used the wrong type of construction adhesive. And to the best of my knowledge (because he's used it before) he already knows the difference, so I suspect some shenanigans.
Fact is while it isn't quite as strong as regular wood glue, it's certainly strong enough for any kind of woodworking - fine or rough.
I use it for several reasons, chief among them is that it works in a cold shop and takes longer to set. You can pull off the most complex glue-ups with plenty of time to position parts and get it clamped. It also doesn't have water so it doesn't swell the wood like regular glue does. As a result tighter joints can be put together with this glue - it actually lubricates the wood.
It's waterproof and my favourite for putting together box joints.
It doesn't drip all over the place and can easily fill any gap your lack of woodworking talent produces :)
Tell me I'll get high if I sniff it and you'll convert me from attempting to glue everything together with nail varnish remover 🤔💀
You have commented several times about the strength of glue and ordinary construction materials and how many people underestimate strength and overestimate the need of strength in a given application. I can confirm practically all of my own projects are grossly overbuilt and so are the projects of other diyers I know and see. Not everything requires unearthly strength
Its fine, both of you will get more views as result. I also use that construction adhesive. It fills gaps great, it will function in a wider temperature and humidity ranges, and overtime its more rugged especially against heat and water. It also resist impacts and vibration better after dry, which wood glue often does not. It might not have that type of initial adhesion to clean dry wood at ideal temperature type of lab test that Wandel is running, but that type of construction adhesive was made for real life, in the field conditions.
John, how do you seal the tube between uses. Maybe for you since you use it on a regular basis it's not an issue, but for someone who might use it once a week what is the trick to storing it between use. I have tried using those fancy plastic caps and tape with mixed results. So any tips you can share about this. Might make a good #short
One of you two will be sleeping on the couch tonight....
I'm going make some popcorn and wait for the Wandell rebuttal.
Hahahaah that was my thought exactly!
Lol
I use construction adhesive on a lot of projects in the past. Including outdoor furniture. Works well for glue ups.
I just looked at the tech data sheets for the PL 400 Matthias used VS the PL Premium and PL Premium Max and the numbers really surprised me. Premium looks to be 3 to 5 times stronger. Thanks for this response, I learned something!
Project farm tested them too.
John, you are an inspiration to all woodworkers. For me you are number 1. 👏👏👏👏
The thinly veiled jabs at Matthias are wonderful; a sort of sibling rivalry.
Oh John you convinced me about polyurethane construction adhesive years ago.😀😀
Love the reaction vid to the Wandell video. I was waiting for this video just as soon as I heard your name exit his mouth. Lol
I knew this was coming!
Yep
I used to use PL 400 to glue subfloor to the joists in the houses I was building. Sometimes they were wet and sometimes they had frost on them. Never had a failure. Had to go back and tear out some of the work many years later. Those joints were very strong. If the Premium version is even better I have no doubt it is strong enough.
I have used that type of adhesive (Gorilla ultimate) to hold paper towel dispensers to a porcelain tile wall in a corporate building bathroom. It has held for over three years now. Plastic to porcelain daily use and abuse. Not one of the 16 installed has moved at all.
Hey John, it's been a number of years but ... , I used to thin PL Premium with Xylene ... worked quite well. If I recall correctly the one used for landscaping doesn't expand as much ... Now I'll have to go test it again.
I've never had a situation where I thought it would be better if I thinned it. It spreads out really well and the long open time gives you plenty of time to do that before it starts setting.
Love the "Diresta" tag on your drill press!
I use their poly version of roof flashing sealant on my solar installations. It is great stuff.
Send a glue bottle like that for Matthias. His testings are pretty fun! 😬
Anyway, stay safe there with your family, John! 🖖😊
Matthias' content is so interesting that we would watch him connect a raspberry pi to a roll of toilet paper to confirm its absorption characteristics.
@@dakotamax2 Absolutely!
Yep, I’ve been using it for a couple decades too. It’s the best glue I’ve ever used. I had a couple downsides like it sticks to everything in the vicinity of your working area and second, it’s smelly and super toxic. And lastly, it take a good while to cure but other than those few inconveniences, it’s still my favourite.
I used PL Premium to repair a broken concrete base for a huge yard fountain. The rest of the base disintigrated over time, but the break I glued held.
LOL, time to carve the thanksgiving turkey! "OK, just throw it in the vise" hehehe
I built a small shelf with white wood glue only for my stereo equipment out of 1” pine 45 years ago, still holding together. No nails or screws.
I hope that biscuit video keeps you in commercial biscuits for years to come :p
It also works great on shoe soles that have separated. They will wear out before they come apart again.
I use PL glue all the time now because of you.
I like to make things because I can. On the rare occasion I make something I really need but can't afford, it's because I have the materials on hand or fall ass backwards into free material. I buy stuff, I make stuff. Good talk John.
I figured this would come. Cheers! Do you have a good recipe for moose milk?
Speaking of Don.... we need some new offcuts stories about his crazy adventures. My favourite is still the brake job with cement blocks. I still nearly piss my pants reading some of them again.
p.s. who else but a carpenter would have a bench as an island. both of my kitchens have repurposed woodworking items in them :^D
I miss those too. Unfortunately, Don lost interest in writing those.
It strikes me that PL Premium would be the best adhesive to use with biscuits as regular wood glue can occasionally cause the biscuits to swell. In a project I did many years ago, a panel glue up resulted in these biscuits telescoping through the surface due to swelling. I often avoid using biscuits since, but now I’m tempted to try this….
The biscuits are supposed to swell. That is why biscuits must be used with a water based glue. The swelling allows the biscuits to expand and grip in their slots and be strong. Biscuits and their slots are not tight enough to form a strong bond unless the biscuit swells. The biscuit is made from wood that is designed to absorb water and swell up. Your telescoping through the surface due to swelling is a known problem/trait. You solve this by making sure the biscuits are not too close to the surface.
How does squeeze out clean up or sand away?
Good video.
John, I really like using polyurethane construction adhesive too, but my problem is storing it between projects and keeping the glue from hardening in the tip. I tried running a big wood screw into the end, but still have the hardening problem do you have any tips for storing it? Much appreciation and admiration from an ex-pat Canadian living in Texas!
The best solution is to use it more often. The nozzle is plastic, so even if the opening is sealed tight with a screw, air can still reach the glue - it slowly goes through that plastic.
This is the reason I don't use it
To get the old glue out, don’t bother with a screw, doesn’t work. Slice the tip lengthwise, stick a screwdriver in the slot, and push the plug out. Then use non stretching tape, like clear packaging tape, and tape the tip back together. Next time you use it, just cut off the tape and repeat. Works on all kinds of caulking too. From a fellow Canadian in Kingston.
I wish you had given us the name of the stuff in the tube. I saw a big PL on it and LePage. Are you trying to tease us?
PL Premium.
I've been using PL CA for a few years now and it it awesome. I've had to disassemble something that was glued together for only about 20hrs with PL and it would not budge. I had to use my oscillating multitool to get them apart.
Am I dumb? (Don't answer that). I can't find this stuff anywhere local (in the states). Are there other brands that are just as good that can be found in Big Box Stores? I need to do some cabinet glue ups out in my cold 40 degree shop. This is probably just the stuff I need!
I think analytical testing of products is fascinating, but the thing with woodworking is that there are so many methods that are "good enough."
Sure, pocket holes are not as strong as dovetails, but unless you plan on driving a truck over that TV stand, who cares?
Same with glue, while the construction adhesive may not be as strong as other glues based on a very specific test....it's probably good enough (as demonstrated here) that anything stronger generally doesn't matter.
Great video, can wait to see the next response!
Testing would be more interesting if it did just that: point out how insignificant the differences are between each one when put in their proper perspective. Establish a minimum as a benchmark and say that's 100%, and rank everything that surpasses that benchmark as over 100%. So one glue might be 102%, while another might be 101% and another still may be 103%. Establishing that benchmark would be the hard part.
Even then most people wouldn't recognize that the differences aren't significant enough to fret over. It takes experience and a practical understanding of the factors involved and how to rank their importance to get there.
@@IBuildItScrapBin Absolutely. Ive used a wide variety of adhesives on projects. When I made my first ever bed frame, with mortise and tenon, I really messed up some of the mortises, leaving a very loose fit. So, i used what I *thought* i was supposed to use: Polyurathane glue, because it was "Gap Filling." Of course, now these tests are coming out saying that glue is no good at all. But it also turns out that my bed frame, 6 years on, is totally rock solid.
Its weird that as an engineer I think OTHER people over analyze things....
i have told people for years now that PL 400 premium is the glue that made me a carpenter!!
Regular wood glue in the summer, PL Premium for the other three seasons and when anything already has a finish on it.
You get PL Premium tubes from Canadian Tire?
Not available in UK
Could Matthias wood snapper machine thing be useful to you and him to have that kind of machine test the pulling strength of glue if the machine can pull out glued in biscuits/dominoes?
All tests are relative, so their value is also relative.
If, for example, you are testing how close to true white several different brands of paper are and measured a difference, is that difference important to how you use the paper?
If all of the glues tested will do what they are supposed to do and perform better than a set standard, what's the value in testing them to begin with?
It's like that sheet of paper when all you are doing with it is writing a letter. For this purpose (and most others), the paper is white enough.
@@IBuildItScrapBin I understand, I was just thinking about bridging the gap between your videos and Matthias with his lumber strength testing contraption
Oh it would take more than that contraption to do that :)
If I seriously wanted to test joints or glue, I could build my own doohickey to do that. Fortunately, I don't have any interest and there's more than enough guys doing it already.
9:15 They don't sell LePage PL in Florida, so does anyone know what an equivalent substitute would be?
Loctite Pl Premium in the US
does anyone know what the equivalent to PL Construction Adhesive is here in the UK?
It's available in the Uk - Loctite Pl Premium.
The phrase and title, "Much Ado About Nothing" comes to mind.
Have you liked this adhesive for chair building?
I've never been a glue obsessor. For the most part I ask if I will need to disassemble the part at any time. If so, I use a glue that will come off with heat. If not, it's pretty much free reign unless I need something waterproof.
Yep, I just use what will do the job, no wracking my brain for hrs. Only once in my life did I need to make something strong enough to hold up a car. It was a rack to hold up a car.
John , you are an inspiration to all woodworkers. You are number 1 in my book.👏👏👏👏
I've been using PL for years. That stuff will pull concrete up if you glue a 2x4 to it and try and bash it off with a sledge hammer after the fact.
It is the best. Period.
Anyone can suggest similar glue available in europe ?
I do a lot of old furniture repair. Construction adhesive works much better than carpenters glue for all those loose, sloppy joints. Yes, you can add sawdust to carpenters glue, but why bother.
Who watched Wandel's video and didn't see this coming? 😁
I didn't bother to watch the glue test video because I already know that all off the shelf glues can get the job done for 99% of what real wood workers do.
I just like the way the grudge is so great now John doesn’t even mention the video or Matthias in the response videos now, also telling the viewer not to watch “videos like that” 😂
Is that PL 3X you are using? I could only see PL on your tube. I love PL3X but its color & thickness keep me from using it on furniture building
It's PL Premium. The 3X isn't the name, it's just saying that it's 3 times stronger than regular construction adhesive. The 8X version is 8 times stronger.
@@IBuildItScrapBin I have used both Loctite PL products, most often 3X but 8X for overhead horizontal gluing. They have either large 3X or 8X adjacent to the PL. I didn’t see either on the tube you showed & was wondering if it was perhaps a different formula.
This tube says 3X too, but the product name is PL Premium. Loctite just has a different label for the same product from the same manufacturer.
@@IBuildItScrapBin Yes I know the product name & I agree with your praise of it. Do quibble with your assessment of Aliphatic resin glues. Think Titebond is superior because of all the choices offered like Titebond II Extend Wood Glue with longer open time, like around 15-20 minutes allowing for complex glue-ups without a heart attack.
I'm guessing this is in response to Matthias's "Glue Test" where he had your glue in dead as in really really dead last .... twice. I knew you were steaming as I was watching his video, lol. I still love me some Matthias but I know your right and telling the truth. You don't strike me as the type of guy that would lead us astray. So carry on, we got your back.
The point was that he didn't test the glue I used. He tested what I talked about at the end of this video - a regular subfloor adhesive, and said it's what I use.
How are you cutting the mortises for the dominos?
With my domino machine. I bought one.
@@IBuildItScrapBin oh nice, I always figured you’d make one before buying
Too many others have done that already. And they don't particularly convenient to use because you need to wag the bit back and forth manually.
This video is pandering to my obsession with adhesive performance.
Mathias this Mathias that... His tests were flawed... You have to look at "Cure Time" Titewad 3 is 24 hours... PL-400 is 2 to 7 days. All things being equal and leaving them over night.. simply is not equal. Just look up "Structural Adhesive"... there aint no Elmers there... My general opinion on glue choices in the shop... "Resorcinol adhesive" Holds boats and planes together - it will hold a table together
The other, more obvious flaw is that I don't use PL-400.
PL-400 is a regular construction adhesive, and not suitable for quality woodworking regardless of how long you let it dry.
TH-cam asked me if I liked this vid then asked me how, like was it heartwarming…
Why buy when you can make the same thing in your "down time". Keeps the skillset and mind tuned well.
I saw MW call you out in a video and said polyurethane construction adhesive is not for woodworking. If that's the case, why would Titebond make a polyurethane woodworking glue? It's the same thing.
He didn't test polyurethane construction adhesive. He tested Pl-400 which is just a regular subfloor adhesive. That's the point of this video, to say that.
@@IBuildItScrapBin Oh, gotcha. That would make a huge difference. Love your content. Thank you.
A couple things here:
I think it's silly that you are known as the construction adhesive guy. I've read a couple of comments from guys that are actually judging the hell out of you for using it. Whatever. I suppose any publicity is good publicity. So they say...
I'm glad your quick and dirty band saw video is still doing good. I've just recently re-watched it a couple times. I'm working toward a decision on what method I want to use to mill some logs. My buddy keeps chain sawing up and splitting perfectly good logs for firewood. So it's a race for me to get to milling them before they are just up in smoke.
To be honest, I wouldn't make a saw mill the same way again. Making it from wood is a compromise, especially if you are trying to make it low cost.
@@IBuildItScrapBin I mainly examined the whole mechanical/pieces/parts aspect of the build. The saw itself seemed to function just fine. The fighting of the log through cutting process was a little unsavory I'm my estimation. I'm thinking a hand cranked wench thingy would do the trick. On the same cart type system.
Really, I just want to do it to do it. After watching so many band saw builds my head is full of fifty thousand little design tweaks and features. Build one to get a start, and then build a better one from what I've learned by doing it.
Thanks for the reply, and all of your enjoyable videos.
I don't want to start any drama, but I'm damn curious as a viewer for many years, what happened between Heisz and Wandel? They even shared a channel at one point. Now (in reading the comments), it seems like there is a feud.
Are you still on speaking terms with Matthias?
There's nothing really wrong with the "weaker" PL that Matthias used, the problem with the low testing was because it didn't have enough cure time. That type of glue increases over time. The longest he gave it was 2 days, but if he left it for a week or even 2 weeks, then it's strength rating would've massively increased. That 2x4 you pulled off the wall would've come off much easier in the first day or 2, but after that full curing time it tore your plywood apart.
No need to put weaker in quotation marks - it is weaker and that would be the problem with it. Ultimate strength is lower and not what I'd rate as reliable for quality woodworking.
I had to separate two pieces of wood that were held together with PL with only about 20hrs drying time. They would not budge without cracking the wood. More curing time might have made the joint stronger but it didn't need to be.
Liquid nails sucks compared to PL.
Frailty
john.
Do I see a glue-off?
Nothing I'd involve myself in. Like I said in this video, I have the answers I need.
Did you guys fall out?
So stop watching Matthias Wandel?
Keep watching, just understand that the strength people think they need in wood glue is extremely over-exaggerated. It all works if used correctly.
Do you expect anything more from the biscuit than just alignment?
That's the only reason to use biscuits so why ask?
@@MrWizards1974 they reinforce miter joints all of the time
@@joshl90 No sir they do not. They are used for alignment in miter joints not reinforcement. Biscuits do not add any strength at all an in some cases weaken joints in softer woods.
@@MrWizards1974 cool since you made the claim stating that they are only for alignment, then you have the burden of proof to show that they in fact weaken a joint and/or do not strengthen a joint. Post up some video
@@joshl90 First of all it's no "claim" Its a fact. Any woodworker worth his salt knows this to be true. You obviously have never used biscuits before. It is not my responsibility to educate you any further. I gave you the facts. I see you have provided no proof for your argument so I guess you are just being argumentative.
Someone is data rich but information poor
Salty lol