It's worth it if you do a lot of builds that require this type of joinery - aka a business or if you are building all of the furniture and cabinets that would fill an average house. It's a great machine, but it doesn't do anything that you can't do for a lot less money. I bought mine using money I get from my very generous supporters on Patreon and Locals. In large part, they are funding the full build videos that I do, when so many other creators have stopped doing them or slowed down.
I've got a bee in my bonnet regarding the Domino and that's the fact that Festool now have everyone calling floating tenons 'dominoes'. Nothing to do with the functionality of it - it works great and I know that but that marketing ... the fact that it worked out like this annoys me on some deep level I can't quite describe. I dunno, I feel like they manipulated the market itself and I don't like that. When people say "use dominoes" it's akin to everyone saying "google it" instead of "search it" or "put it into google" instead of "use a search engine". Whether it was cleverness on behalf of the Festool marketing division or just a happy accident they never expected it still bugs the hell out of me. Are biscuits floating tenons? I'm getting the feeling I'm opening up a can of worms here but I'm gonna post it anyway lol. In any case it did the job and those side tables look gorgeous. Cheers John.
@Tyler Mullins pantoroiter you are sort of limited with your work size, domino you can easily use on a super long board. I have both and they are both great!
@@alflud Dude get some perspective! This doesn't sound like a big issue and if 'people' thought the distinction was important, they'd call them floating tenons. I have been into floating tenons since well before floating tenons were cool. I bought a Robland combination machine in the mid 1990s that was a 10" sliding table table saw, a 12 inch jointer/planer combo, a shaper, and had an articulated table for easily making wide, round-ended slots for floating tenons. I also have the smaller Festool Domino machine. FWIW, I would *never* refer to any floating tenon as a "domino" unless it either *was* a Festool Domino, or it had been made (by me or someone else) specifically to be used with Domino-created mortises.
Thank you for providing a summary. Most videos conceal information like this for as long as they can, providing they actually have a video that matches their clickbait title. So, thanks for the accurate title as well!
You of all of the "Makers" out there is one of the most FRUGAL with materials and tools etc. You know your craft and know the basics way beyond most DIY'ers. Yes, there are EXPERTS and GURUS of the maker world as well as the so-called ARMCHAIR critiques who just about nitpick everything anyone does. You shouldn't even worry about all the casual troll critiques and I for one enjoy and appreciate all the things you do so well. BTW, your DIY biscuit making was brilliant and I know it will work as well or better than the commercial ones where I have found many don't either fit in the slot or broken or cracked etc
Love mine. Had one of the original models and have had it for many years. I am also a hobbyist, and can justify the cost because a hobby is supposed to be fun. And with the Domino it is. Given what people spend on hobbies, I don't think one needs to justify and expense.
I've had a domino for years and it is great / well worth the money. I'm glad you did come back with comments about the home made biscuits. It pissed me off greatly from people with less knowledge and experience.
Great comment about the PL premium and not causing the biscuits to swell. That will be my go to anytime I am using biscuits from here on in, especially if they are shallow biscuits
John, Biscuits ... The bought biscuits does telegraph through to the surface if too close ! The reason I like yours, you can make them to fit as snugly as you want, that means with your glue they do not need to swell. Lastly, if you want, you can make then from the same wood as your project which means with changing atmospheric conditions they will expand and contract at the same rate as your piece of furniture.
I've been using my biscuit joiner for over 25 years I find it to be most useful for securing joints between weaker materials like particleboard and melamine where it could usually snap since there's no actual woodgrain and it has done well. I have also used it with wood just as an alignment helper so I'm not constantly trying to make adjustments during a glue up between long boards which is almost impossible once the glue is working. to me the domino is just for obvious joints and intersections where different grain directions are glued up.
I got Peter Millard's loose tenon jig for routing out domino sized slots and it works great for me. I paid around $100 with taxes and vat here in Norway. Great alternative to a dowel jig! I'd love to have a Domino, but I'm a hobbyist with neither a big enough need nor enough expendable funds. But I don't think anyone who gets it wasted their money and I am a little jealous even for my low volume hobby noob projects!
Same. Then my Trend router switch had a gentle bump in just the right spot to knock the switch gripper off. Now I have to try to fix the router! You seem to use 'biscuits' when you mean loose tenons - very different items. Biscuits are merely for alignment, not strength. Loose tenons really are tenons so provide real strength. If my daughter wants lots of cabinets in her new house, it might justify a Domino for the speed but IKEA is so much cheaper than materials for self-build that modifying IKEA is usually most cost-effective way to go (shame)
@@cuebj I don't mean biscuits, I do mean loose tenons. Search for Peter Millard loose tenon jig here on TH-cam and you'll find it! I'm considering saving up for a biscuit joiner, btw. Should work faster than the loose tenon jig for alignment and better than my dowel jigs.
@@TheStigiphone det vil funke hvis sjablongguiden er på 18mm! Man kan velge en pakke fra Peter Millard med et stål, men det er ¼ tomme og vil ikke passe i Biltema-fresen sin 6mm-hylse, så du må skaffe et eget 5mm spiralstål. Jeg bruker grønn Bosch POF 1400 med ¼ toms hylse. Sjablongguiden er på 17mm, men jeg tok maskeringstape utenpå og det funka bra.
Concerning the problem of the compressed biscuit expanding to cause a visible defect, I'm here to testify that Norm the Man himself, in one of the later PBS New Yankee Workshop episodes, did himself confess that he had examined pieces that he had done years before and noted the problem.
Good conclusion John and agree with you about the Domino. I'm glad you like your biscuit jointer. All you usually hear is bad press for it. I love mine had it since the 1980's it's done thousands. The biscuits don't swell if you only apply a light coat of glue, not flooded. Tony
I'm a tinkerer in a hobby shop with a Domino 500 Q - no production work. My overthink everything/perfectionist mindset makes it a very enjoyable tool. I found mine new in box on Craigslist for $850 - local, professional carpenter had bought 2, but decided to upgrade one of them to the 700xl and didn't want the hassle of online returns. Every so often you'll find them used, but the go fast.
I will buy a Domino but not until the price comes down. Festool used price control so all dealers charge the same. Festool needs to get with the needs of the average guy. Festool is good, but not that good.
I agree on your assesment of awesomeness. They have a very nice asthetic. Very balanced and clean, and look nice and solid. Well done, quite a design achievement, not to mention the actual constuction.
When I watched your video on making the biscuits...I thought hmmm probably better that they won't swell. I really like the domino and how precise it can be. Worth the money? Maybe....but it's been a great tool to have and no regrets.
Joint strength discussion should include context to its use. Picture frame joint strength does not need to equal joint strength for a bed or dining table. Since glues are so good these days, proper gluing is more important than the strength of the joint design. Just my opinion.
Love the straight forward approach, and perhaps out off all your wood working projects, I love these end tables the best. Something about the floating top and simple but precise lines. Why do we as woodworkers have to justify our tools? Especially if we produce our own furniture. I can make a piece that will last for generations with a good tool, (or even a bad tool). Even if John H only used that Domino tool for this singular project, the end results of those two tables far exceeds the cost of the material and tool. The rest of the tool's history is gravy.
Hi John, the people who do not like your home made bisects are the ones that cannot make the biscuits themselves and are jealous of you because you can.
I'd still like to see what you'd come up with if you built your own "domino" machine. But, of course, that would not be in your interest now that you've bought one. I love the tables, by the way.
as for the domino.... maybe its needed in production, I made a copy of peter millards domino jig for a router... its 3x slower, but cost me 18" of scrap wood to make and works 100% perfect.... would i take a domino machine for free or less then $100... sure... then i would own one...
That's why I suggested making biscuits out of thin plywood. It's going to be resistant in more than one direction. 😊 Anyway, pretty nice tool indeed, John! Too bad it's a heck of expensive here in Brazil. 😬 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I've been eyeballing the Domino for quite some time. I don't build enough cases or join enough tops to justify it... At some point though, I'm going to find an excuse! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it.
I could have said more about it, but didn't want to make the video too long. Like how it won't clear chips without a vac hookup, unlike a biscuit joiner. Also I think the stock 5mm cutter that came with the tool is nice, but too small for most joints. A more standard size would be the 8mm one and I'll get one of those before I use it again.
Do you think the way you made your biscuits gives the joint more structural strength, (Being as they’re solid wood) effectively making them floating tenons?
@@CrimeVid there is an adapter for your trim router that turns it into a domino. I don't remember the name of it. It's about $200 if I remember correctly.
Everyone says 500 for almost all uses except quite heavy joinery. They double up the 500 maximum size loose tenons instead of using the much larger tenons for the 700. You'd have to have a lot of spare hobby cash or be a pro joiner, eg custom hardwood doors, as well as cabinet maker to justify the 700
That's what I've used for over 50 years but speed and precision of Domino is tempting - if demand from family grows as they settle into new and bigger homes. Think a Ron Paulk bench and quality track saw with Benchdog attachments will be more important
They're amateurs, probably pensioners, (like me though I'd like one) with time on hands and no money for a purpose built machine that saves cast amounts of time and pays for itself in two weeks of a big kitchen project
I just don't understand how everyone goes nuts over a proprietary product and accessories that is only available through one source. Are you saying that there is no other way to make good joinery than to use a narrow use tool, that the consumables and tool is made by only one company and their patent doesn't start to expire until 2024 or later?
The domino is special due to the fact that nothing can produce fast, accurate, and strong joinery like it does. You can use other joinery methods but none of them will be as fast.
@@Roct3874 I get that if you are working a commercial production environment but short of that, it’s just a $1000 shiny toy. I can’t wait to see what future devices cost when the patent expires and see what people think then?
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It's worth it if you do a lot of builds that require this type of joinery - aka a business or if you are building all of the furniture and cabinets that would fill an average house. It's a great machine, but it doesn't do anything that you can't do for a lot less money.
I bought mine using money I get from my very generous supporters on Patreon and Locals. In large part, they are funding the full build videos that I do, when so many other creators have stopped doing them or slowed down.
@Tyler Mullins The setup for a pantorouter is wayyy longer.
I've got a bee in my bonnet regarding the Domino and that's the fact that Festool now have everyone calling floating tenons 'dominoes'. Nothing to do with the functionality of it - it works great and I know that but that marketing ... the fact that it worked out like this annoys me on some deep level I can't quite describe. I dunno, I feel like they manipulated the market itself and I don't like that. When people say "use dominoes" it's akin to everyone saying "google it" instead of "search it" or "put it into google" instead of "use a search engine". Whether it was cleverness on behalf of the Festool marketing division or just a happy accident they never expected it still bugs the hell out of me.
Are biscuits floating tenons? I'm getting the feeling I'm opening up a can of worms here but I'm gonna post it anyway lol. In any case it did the job and those side tables look gorgeous. Cheers John.
@Tyler Mullins pantoroiter you are sort of limited with your work size, domino you can easily use on a super long board. I have both and they are both great!
@@alflud Dude get some perspective! This doesn't sound like a big issue and if 'people' thought the distinction was important, they'd call them floating tenons. I have been into floating tenons since well before floating tenons were cool. I bought a Robland combination machine in the mid 1990s that was a 10" sliding table table saw, a 12 inch jointer/planer combo, a shaper, and had an articulated table for easily making wide, round-ended slots for floating tenons. I also have the smaller Festool Domino machine. FWIW, I would *never* refer to any floating tenon as a "domino" unless it either *was* a Festool Domino, or it had been made (by me or someone else) specifically to be used with Domino-created mortises.
Thank you for providing a summary. Most videos conceal information like this for as long as they can, providing they actually have a video that matches their clickbait title. So, thanks for the accurate title as well!
The table aesthetics are amazing! I really love how they look.
The color variation is gorgeous!!!!
You of all of the "Makers" out there is one of the most FRUGAL with materials and tools etc. You know your craft and know the basics way beyond most DIY'ers. Yes, there are EXPERTS and GURUS of the maker world as well as the so-called ARMCHAIR critiques who just about nitpick everything anyone does. You shouldn't even worry about all the casual troll critiques and I for one enjoy and appreciate all the things you do so well. BTW, your DIY biscuit making was brilliant and I know it will work as well or better than the commercial ones where I have found many don't either fit in the slot or broken or cracked etc
Love mine. Had one of the original models and have had it for many years. I am also a hobbyist, and can justify the cost because a hobby is supposed to be fun. And with the Domino it is. Given what people spend on hobbies, I don't think one needs to justify and expense.
They're bloomin lovely! Really nice!👍
I've had a domino for years and it is great / well worth the money. I'm glad you did come back with comments about the home made biscuits. It pissed me off greatly from people with less knowledge and experience.
Great comment about the PL premium and not causing the biscuits to swell. That will be my go to anytime I am using biscuits from here on in, especially if they are shallow biscuits
The wood makes most every decision. Beautiful John.
John, Biscuits ...
The bought biscuits does telegraph through to the surface if too close !
The reason I like yours, you can make them to fit as snugly as you want, that means with your glue they do not need to swell. Lastly, if you want, you can make then from the same wood as your project which means with changing atmospheric conditions they will expand and contract at the same rate as your piece of furniture.
I've been using my biscuit joiner for over 25 years I find it to be most useful for securing joints between weaker materials like particleboard and melamine where it could usually snap since there's no actual woodgrain and it has done well. I have also used it with wood just as an alignment helper so I'm not constantly trying to make adjustments during a glue up between long boards which is almost impossible once the glue is working. to me the domino is just for obvious joints and intersections where different grain directions are glued up.
I got Peter Millard's loose tenon jig for routing out domino sized slots and it works great for me. I paid around $100 with taxes and vat here in Norway. Great alternative to a dowel jig!
I'd love to have a Domino, but I'm a hobbyist with neither a big enough need nor enough expendable funds.
But I don't think anyone who gets it wasted their money and I am a little jealous even for my low volume hobby noob projects!
Same. Then my Trend router switch had a gentle bump in just the right spot to knock the switch gripper off. Now I have to try to fix the router! You seem to use 'biscuits' when you mean loose tenons - very different items. Biscuits are merely for alignment, not strength. Loose tenons really are tenons so provide real strength. If my daughter wants lots of cabinets in her new house, it might justify a Domino for the speed but IKEA is so much cheaper than materials for self-build that modifying IKEA is usually most cost-effective way to go (shame)
@@cuebj I don't mean biscuits, I do mean loose tenons. Search for Peter Millard loose tenon jig here on TH-cam and you'll find it!
I'm considering saving up for a biscuit joiner, btw. Should work faster than the loose tenon jig for alignment and better than my dowel jigs.
Dang Stephen, mansplain to a man much.
Hvilken overfres bruker du? Funker Biltems sin (min🙈) til Peter Millard's jig?
@@TheStigiphone det vil funke hvis sjablongguiden er på 18mm! Man kan velge en pakke fra Peter Millard med et stål, men det er ¼ tomme og vil ikke passe i Biltema-fresen sin 6mm-hylse, så du må skaffe et eget 5mm spiralstål.
Jeg bruker grønn Bosch POF 1400 med ¼ toms hylse. Sjablongguiden er på 17mm, men jeg tok maskeringstape utenpå og det funka bra.
Concerning the problem of the compressed biscuit expanding to cause a visible defect, I'm here to testify that Norm the Man himself, in one of the later PBS New Yankee Workshop episodes, did himself confess that he had examined pieces that he had done years before and noted the problem.
Norm's the guy who pretty much single-handedly got the biscuit joinery bandwagon started.
@@ObadiahTeleo I did live through that and I do believe that you are right.
Good conclusion John and agree with you about the Domino. I'm glad you like your biscuit jointer. All you usually hear is bad press for it.
I love mine had it since the 1980's it's done thousands. The biscuits don't swell if you only apply a light coat of glue, not flooded. Tony
John, tables look great. Thanks for sharing.
I just use a JessEm doweling jig. It's not cheap for a jig, but ... For the occasional joint. This is easy and convenient.
I laughed all through that John. Love the Scrap Bin.
I'm a tinkerer in a hobby shop with a Domino 500 Q - no production work. My overthink everything/perfectionist mindset makes it a very enjoyable tool. I found mine new in box on Craigslist for $850 - local, professional carpenter had bought 2, but decided to upgrade one of them to the 700xl and didn't want the hassle of online returns. Every so often you'll find them used, but the go fast.
I so rarely buy tools I never give it a second thought to buy them new.
I always like the way you handle the geniuses from the peanut gallery.
I will buy a Domino but not until the price comes down. Festool used price control so all dealers charge the same. Festool needs to get with the needs of the average guy. Festool is good, but not that good.
Well done...
excited to watch a video about the Domino.........proceeds to talk about biscuits the entire time.....lol
I agree on your assesment of awesomeness. They have a very nice asthetic. Very balanced and clean, and look nice and solid. Well done, quite a design achievement, not to mention the actual constuction.
I always enjoy your thoughts!
When I watched your video on making the biscuits...I thought hmmm probably better that they won't swell. I really like the domino and how precise it can be. Worth the money? Maybe....but it's been a great tool to have and no regrets.
I just saw those ... very nice job John.
Joint strength discussion should include context to its use. Picture frame joint strength does not need to equal joint strength for a bed or dining table. Since glues are so good these days, proper gluing is more important than the strength of the joint design. Just my opinion.
Love the straight forward approach, and perhaps out off all your wood working projects, I love these end tables the best. Something about the floating top and simple but precise lines. Why do we as woodworkers have to justify our tools? Especially if we produce our own furniture. I can make a piece that will last for generations with a good tool, (or even a bad tool). Even if John H only used that Domino tool for this singular project, the end results of those two tables far exceeds the cost of the material and tool. The rest of the tool's history is gravy.
Hi John, the people who do not like your home made bisects are the ones that cannot make the biscuits themselves and are jealous of you because you can.
8:30 It seems to me that if the biscuits are made with the same kind of wood as the boards then the biscuits and boards should move together.
Like any tool, if you use it it's worth every penny.
I read that the patent is up in a couple of years. I can wait for a cheaper knock off.
I'd still like to see what you'd come up with if you built your own "domino" machine. But, of course, that would not be in your interest now that you've bought one.
I love the tables, by the way.
as for the domino.... maybe its needed in production, I made a copy of peter millards domino jig for a router... its 3x slower, but cost me 18" of scrap wood to make and works 100% perfect.... would i take a domino machine for free or less then $100... sure... then i would own one...
I envy the fact that you can delay cleaning-up the shop.
nice design
That's why I suggested making biscuits out of thin plywood. It's going to be resistant in more than one direction. 😊
Anyway, pretty nice tool indeed, John! Too bad it's a heck of expensive here in Brazil. 😬
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I've been eyeballing the Domino for quite some time. I don't build enough cases or join enough tops to justify it... At some point though, I'm going to find an excuse! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it.
I could have said more about it, but didn't want to make the video too long. Like how it won't clear chips without a vac hookup, unlike a biscuit joiner. Also I think the stock 5mm cutter that came with the tool is nice, but too small for most joints. A more standard size would be the 8mm one and I'll get one of those before I use it again.
Thank you for "going there"
...and of course John Heist signature series biscuits are better...
Do you think the way you made your biscuits gives the joint more structural strength, (Being as they’re solid wood) effectively making them floating tenons?
Is there just 1 company that makes the domino?
Make a Domino!!!!
👍
I was hoping you'd address the bisquet squad. Some of the things being said were too stupid, even for me, to reply to, lol. Nice chat John.
So was it a tough choice between the domino 500 and the 700xl ??
Maybe I should have both :)
@@IBuildItScrapBin Alain Vaillancourt has both... I might ask him, but he's been a Festool fan for years.
Is there a knockoff machine yet ? (says the man who puts biscuits in with a router !) No but, that machine is/was damned expensive.
@@CrimeVid there is an adapter for your trim router that turns it into a domino. I don't remember the name of it. It's about $200 if I remember correctly.
Everyone says 500 for almost all uses except quite heavy joinery. They double up the 500 maximum size loose tenons instead of using the much larger tenons for the 700. You'd have to have a lot of spare hobby cash or be a pro joiner, eg custom hardwood doors, as well as cabinet maker to justify the 700
Its worth it
To many nit pickers around John.👍👍
shiiiit, time is what I don't have. that's why I got a domino hah
Before i will pay that price ill just keep using my drill and dowels !
That's what I've used for over 50 years but speed and precision of Domino is tempting - if demand from family grows as they settle into new and bigger homes. Think a Ron Paulk bench and quality track saw with Benchdog attachments will be more important
Welcome to 2007.
I love the Domino haters, their still making joints while I am delivering the product
They're amateurs, probably pensioners, (like me though I'd like one) with time on hands and no money for a purpose built machine that saves cast amounts of time and pays for itself in two weeks of a big kitchen project
OMG
I’m not goin to talk about, ok I will talk about it…
I’m so mad at myself for watching this video, EDIT!
I just don't understand how everyone goes nuts over a proprietary product and accessories that is only available through one source. Are you saying that there is no other way to make good joinery than to use a narrow use tool, that the consumables and tool is made by only one company and their patent doesn't start to expire until 2024 or later?
The domino is special due to the fact that nothing can produce fast, accurate, and strong joinery like it does. You can use other joinery methods but none of them will be as fast.
@@Roct3874 I get that if you are working a commercial production environment but short of that, it’s just a $1000 shiny toy. I can’t wait to see what future devices cost when the patent expires and see what people think then?