That’s good to hear because I’m going to try it also after having so so flushes from one huge mono tub cake from a 5 lb spawn bag. And of course. Blobs.
I’ve been growing off and on for years having learned from the Shroomery. I attempted to grow PE with no success, first with PF tek and then with a shoebox bulk grow. The brf cakes dried out and the shoebox went the green route. I came across this tek and tried it. I am encouraged by the fact that I have a shoebox now completely colonized, quickly too, and now in fruiting conditions. It’s looking good. I have my fingers crossed. Thanks S and C! You’re the man!
I found these perfect sized tubs that can fit 3 shoeboxes while being 80 quarts as well. I can also fit a puppy incontinence pad inside as well which will keep humidity up.
Bod's shoebox tek has been my first bookmark since he published it. I have been on shroomery for almost a decade now. Glad to see some real knowledge on YT, literally EVERY other mycology channel is a poorly shrouded commercial.
Also Edward Grand seems legitimate. Sage (Mycophylia) is great also, but has pushed some questionable products in the last year. I essentially gave up on YT mycology after the Rookie Mycologist infomercial channel started last year.
Excellent video. I noticed you discussed the use of a trash bag liner to prevent side pins. However, you did not use a liner in the video. Does the substrate compression step you do later on accomplish the same benefit as having used a liner?
Compression certainly helps remove the tiny gaps that produce the microclimates responsible for side/bottom pinning, but it's not a guaranteed fix. Liners cling to the substrate and make the best contact.
@StipeCapI so appreciate the contribution you make to the cultivation community, here and on the Shroomery. There is so much misinformation out there and people are still fanning their tubs and adding unnecessary stuff to their substrate. Your channel is a welcome relief from all of that nonsense. Thank you for your videos.
Hmmm is this something new? I'm working on my second grow of APEs and found (from research) a 1:1.5 spawn to sub ratio works. I'm not seeing any blobs and didn't my first time and got 3 good flushes a shoebox. Happy to have found the link on discord to your new channel, i was upset when i noticed your old one was no longer active. Good shit bro, you're giving BoomerShroomer a run for her money lololololol Don't hurt me hahaha
Glad to see people spreading the true liner knowledge. Thoughts on adding gypsum? Also, why not "dub tub" with the shoeboxes as opposed to buying the bigger "sweater box"?
@@MissBlackMetal Gypsum isn't necessary for the healthy growth of all species, it is more often used in the gourmet industry because of the species grown and the limited amount of spawn used. Active species rely upon the excessive use of cereal grains to function as nutritional supplementation to fuel spawn run and fructification. Gourmet production blocks rely heavily on amendments like gypsum, bran, soy hulls, etc, to reduce the requirement for excessive spawn use and production. You can use gypsum if you want but it's unnecessary because we already over-supplement with grain spawn. Many active species are sensitive to over-supplementation, as well as mutant varieties.
Thanks man, great stuff. I'm high in the mountains and moisture is always an issue. I love the idea of increasing the sub,...duh! I've always thought that the traditional guidance of squeezing sub to check "field capacity" was a weak way to test and it always left my sub drier than I thought it should be. Therefore, I looked into what the term "field capacity" actually meant according to real soil scientists and engineers. It turns out that it has nothing to do with squeezing soil and is strictly the amount of water the soil will hold w/out dripping. This is way more than the "squeeze method" allows for and probably accounts for your improved 5l vs. 4l recipe. I've not had a chance to run any grain since I saw your vid or learns about proper field capacity, but looking forward to the tests. I did have a question re the fruiting chamber. Since you have the extra moisture, are you able to set and forget and not bother with misting? Thanks for your great content.
I was a Soil Scientist decades ago. You've got it right. If anyone wants a demo: squeeze a sponge, let it fill with water. Let water drip out. Water left in the sponge would be comparble to it's field capactiy
@@Will-Max Thanks a ton Will. I was always frustrated by the "vagueness" of how people described checking field capacity. I'd find myself yelling at a book or video saying things like "Squeeze???? WTF does that mean?" remembering Alton Brown's Good Eats episode about his grandmother's elusive biscuits ultimately due to her arthritis. It seemed that if water was that important, there had to be a better way. Good to know there is a repeatable technique from the sciences side of things. In fact, I'm just harvesting some of my best tubs right now thanks to using the "if it drips on the floor, add more coir" method :)
If your field capacity is more or less on point, then there should be no real need to mist at all, at least until the first flush. The substrate is primarily a water reservoir, rather than the main food source, as some still think, so if it's set up properly to begin with, which doesn't need to be an exact science, then it's pretty much just leaving it alone until pins appear. Those channels and sites (not Stipe I hasten to add), that tell people to mist and fan tubs are based on long debunked misinformation about cultivation.
The best video on this by far!! Question for you. Does all the extra substrate waste mushroom energy to colonise it or does it just grow threw it when it is so thick? / does it actually colonise it?
@@StipeCap I don't understand. Wouldn't colonizing all that additional material consume energy as the substrate doesn't have any nutritional value? I've always wanted to learn more on substrate so any answers/insights hugely appreciated. I haven't come a good source that explains/understands it... Except for you!!
The substrate is just an inert water reservoir and latticework for the mycelium to colonize, the energy/nutrients are supplied by the cereal grains which provide all the necessary micro and micronutrients for the mycelium. This is why nutritional supplements and nitrogen-rich substrates are unnecessary. All supplementation is provided by the grain. Most gourmet blocks are supplemented at between 15-25% using bran; a 1:6 spawn-to-substrate ratio is 28% supplementation by comparison. Bran is a grain supplement, grains are nutrient and calorie-dense food that is capable of supporting the entire life cycle of the colony. Any substrate that contains nitrogen or other supplements requires either pasteurization, or sterilization, depending upon the source/nature of supplementation. This is why coir and vermiculite are preferable due to their inert nature. Cereal grains for spawn production ARE the food/supplementation, making the addition of more in the way of substrate amendments like manure, coffee, or any other source of nutrients not only unnecessary but complicates the process with the requirement to pasteurize. Nutrient-dense substrates promote the growth of mold when improperly processed. The risk-to-reward ratio is skewed too far toward risk. Spawn is all that is required.
You put the spawn in, then 6 qts sub. Did you even mix it in? You didn’t show it and the spawn was on half of the side. It looked like about have a quart of spawn? Great video. Will try pe this way because a huge 70qt was a cluster.
@@StipeCap I saw the jar you used was not quite 1 qt. About 3/4 full. I should’ve done that because it’s hard to break and shake. If you are using LC to inoculate how many cc per jar. 5?
Don't smack mason jars with your hands. The glass isn't tempered and can fracture from the pressure cooking process. Unless you want a bunch of glass imbedded in your skin, use a towel.
I tried repeating what you did. Right now my substrate is 90% colonized and there is no colonization on my casing layer. Visually the layers are very distinct. I'm concerned that I may have packed my casing layer too compact. Do you think that's a possibility and has that happened to you?
You only need a 1/4"-1/2" of a psuedo casing layer. And a 2/1 or 3/1 sub to spawn ratio. Anything more is just silly. Plus with all of that extra time youll have to wait for bulk colonization it wont make any difference in fruits. Keep it simple. Fruiting chambers arent needed either. Just shoe box, 2/1 ration sub to spawn, a 1/4" pseudo casing so the sub comes up a little lower than half way full in the shoebox, and youll have faster colonization time, and great flushes of fruits. ❤
@@PhillyPyroKev I've been experimenting with sub to spawn ratios and that seems to be what I'm realizing as well in terms of colonization times I've also shortened to my casing layer thickness to around 1/4" to 1/2" and it's now colonizing. I've been also experimenting with lightly spreading my pseudo-casing vs. packing and for now (my first experiment and I'm still waiting for fruits) I do prefer the packed version, just from a visual standpoint. I'm waiting for fruits in the next two weeks to really understand the what my yields are from all variations in sub to spawn and packing. Thanks for the advice!
Have you found a substantial difference in performance with the various vermiculite types? Course, medium, fine. And if so, what have you found to be the best performer? Thank you for any info
So i have 2 6qts using this method (not PE) that i didnt use a liner on to see how they would colonize and i knew there would be side pinning so no suprise there but what im noticing is that primordia was forming through the psuedo and now i have pins coming up through the top layer with barely any sign of mycelium on the surface and only a few small patches of primordia. Its been a little over 20 days. Have you ever had this issue with this method in the past? Or is there something im missing or can try differently?
Yep, that happens due to the layers being separated by compression. This is why the psuedo-casing can function as a casing layer, totally normal, nothing to worry about. With the excess substrate, 20 days is bang on. 👌 Also, you can use clear plastic for liner materials so you can monitor performance.
Does innoculated grain need to be in the dark? And do PE cubes need at least a pseudo casing? And can you go straight to Unicorn Bags without them being sterile?
Light is beneficial at all stages of growth. Some PE requires casing, some don't. You can spawn to unicorn bags if they're employed as fruiting chambers with coir/vermiculite.
Don't need a tool for what? I use a trowel to level and compact my substrate, which is easier to achieve using a flat tool. If I were going to use anything larger than a bucket, I'd use a stock tank, but I prefer buckets.
How do you get the spawn? (Also whats a flush) I wanna try making mushrooms for myself, any tips would be great. Another question, whats the difference between the too layer and substrate? And whats the grain?
Start with a grow kit, read a ton of “shroomery” it’s a forum about growing in internet, start with little, and never do something without doublecheck in mushroom cultivation, I learned that the hard way
New question, do you have issues with fungal knats? I don't know where they come from but they somehow just appear. Would love a solution if anyone has any ideas.
As well as Stipe's advice, you can put some holes in a tub, cover with filters that are cheap and easy to get and keep the lid sealed. So long as the filters allow air the mushrooms will grow just fine and it will keep out fungus gnats.
that does seem like a lot of sub. how well do you mix the spawn and sub? i know you mentioned shaking it up but the videos makes it look like the spawn sits all at the bottom
@StipeCap Alright cool, I appreciate the response. I'm planning on keeping my 6qt shoeboxs inside a 166qt tub, big enough for 4 6qt tubs. Just wondering if you think the pasty whytes tub fae holes will be okay for 4 6qt tubs inside a 166qt tub?
Why 5 liters to 900g of coco vs traditional 650g to 4 liters? That means your doing a liter per 180g of the coco on your coir recipe and then a liter per 162g of coco in the traditional recipe which is significant amount of water difference and more water per gram in the traditional recipe. Is there a specific reson why there is less of a water ratio when doing a 900g brick?
The only purpose for the coir and verm is to hold water without exceeding field capacity, so, if you want more water to push a denser/heavier flush, you need more water. I use water efficiency as a method of tracking culture performance much like how people use the biological efficiency equation, except in terms of the percentage of water utilized by the first flush. 5L = 5k grams, I want my culture to utilize 50% of that water to produce its first flush at a minimum. The first flush @ 50% should be a minimum of 2500 wet grams, the higher the ratio, the better. So to generate this level of performance I need more than the standard amount of coir or I'll end up exceeding field capacity. The above recipe is for larger tubs, but I use it to portion out to smaller tubs when required.
You have to allow room for shaking/breaking the grain. If you overfill it becomes very difficult to shake. This is how we refer to spawn volume. The actual volume isn't an entire q, we use the jar size as a reference.
Because coir/vermiculite that has been expanded via hot water has no contaminant organisms. Competitor organisms will piggyback on contaminated spawn, infecting the substrate. This is why clean spawn is so important. This is not the case however with manure substrates that can mold when improperly processed.
@@StipeCap Thank you for the reply bud. So I just want to clarify you only use 900gs of coco, 3L of Vermiculite and 5L of hot tap water(unless using manure). And no gypsum correct? Sorry for the questions, my first grow dried up after only 2 harvest and 2 aborts pins. I'm guessing either because excessive fanning which I saw fuzzy stems so I upped my fanning to 3 times a day, also my substrate wasn't filled to the top like your it's only about half way up a 6qt container so maybe not enough substrate to pull moisture from. So this time around I'm going to follow what you did and hopefully I can have a nice yield on my second grow.
@TheKenjondoe Yes, 900g coir, 3L verm, 5L water. Never use manure, ever, and never fan, fanning is pointless. Here: www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27426583/page/1
What if horse manure is the only material available? I can’t get gypsum or cococoir where I live so I just pasteurized some horse poo with 5% gypsum… was looking for the best option available for my spawn
Did I understand that correctly? You're not even pasteurizing that substrate? I've been using 50/50 for years but I always pasteurize for 90 to 120 minutes. If you're suggesting it doesn't require pasteurization, that will save me a lot of time.
I think I'll continue to pasteurize since I get my coir from the farm supply store in 40 lb bags. Those bags are stored on pallets outdoors so they get rained on and are exposed to the elements. I'd rather be safe than sorry
@alexgreen8846 there's nothing that very hot or boiled water can't achieve that the time-temperature window for pasteurization can when considering the substrate in question. Pasteurization is required for manure or peat-based substrates due to the bioload of those substrates. Do not treat peat or manure with boiling water because the trace nitrogen will become vulnerable to competitive molds, the boiling water kills the beneficial microbes that keep manure substrates happy and healthy. Coir on the other hand is non-nutritive, essentially inert hydroponic medium. There are however differences in quality, some very low-quality brands may contain detritus and other filth that is best treated with boiled water. There is absolutely no requirement to pasteurize coir or vermiculite.
IMO. That coco would have broken evenly, with the letters up and then forcing the middle against edge of counter or something. Just a thought obviously not a big deal , just my ocd kicking in😅
Thanks, my lad. One thing, I want to urge everyone to stop calling those mushrooms “penis envy.” For obvious reasons. How about we call them, “gargantuan blue bucket hats.”
@StipeCap yeah, I see that, I'm just wondering would it make a difference if you just made it one layer? I mean it's all the same stuff so what's the difference between 1 layer, 2 layers, 3 layers ect.?
@imtypingwords only matter for a culture that blobs. All else can be run as a single unit if you so desire, but there are benefits to maintaining a top layer.
![ละลาย (LALALYE) - DAOU PITTAYA ต้าห์อู๋ พิทยา [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wo6r9TgausI/mqdefault.jpg)
It works! My first successful PE experiment. Thank you S&C.
Excellent!
That’s good to hear because I’m going to try it also after having so so flushes from one huge mono tub cake from a 5 lb spawn bag. And of course. Blobs.
I’ve been growing off and on for years having learned from the Shroomery. I attempted to grow PE with no success, first with PF tek and then with a shoebox bulk grow. The brf cakes dried out and the shoebox went the green route. I came across this tek and tried it. I am encouraged by the fact that I have a shoebox now completely colonized, quickly too, and now in fruiting conditions. It’s looking good. I have my fingers crossed. Thanks S and C! You’re the man!
Good luck 👍
how did they turn out?
Contamination can happen with any tek, I wouldn't blame the tek I would just retry it
@@ixxgxx They turned out okay. I like P. Natalensis better as they are just as strong as PE and much easier to grow.
@@Chocongo4me i was able to get about 70% 3/4 floor flushes out of about 10 shoeboxes. even second flushes.
I found these perfect sized tubs that can fit 3 shoeboxes while being 80 quarts as well. I can also fit a puppy incontinence pad inside as well which will keep humidity up.
Bod's shoebox tek has been my first bookmark since he published it. I have been on shroomery for almost a decade now. Glad to see some real knowledge on YT, literally EVERY other mycology channel is a poorly shrouded commercial.
Also Edward Grand seems legitimate. Sage (Mycophylia) is great also, but has pushed some questionable products in the last year. I essentially gave up on YT mycology after the Rookie Mycologist infomercial channel started last year.
Thanks for commenting, I appreciate the endorsement.
@@ineffably_describedyeh I can't believe how many subs rookie has now and is basically regurgitating others ppls yt channels
and still dont know what theyre doing lol
can you see through the top of the shoebox that the carpet is fully white from colonization before taking lid off to fruit?
Excellent video. I noticed you discussed the use of a trash bag liner to prevent side pins. However, you did not use a liner in the video. Does the substrate compression step you do later on accomplish the same benefit as having used a liner?
Compression certainly helps remove the tiny gaps that produce the microclimates responsible for side/bottom pinning, but it's not a guaranteed fix.
Liners cling to the substrate and make the best contact.
@StipeCapI so appreciate the contribution you make to the cultivation community, here and on the Shroomery. There is so much misinformation out there and people are still fanning their tubs and adding unnecessary stuff to their substrate. Your channel is a welcome relief from all of that nonsense. Thank you for your videos.
Hmmm is this something new? I'm working on my second grow of APEs and found (from research) a 1:1.5 spawn to sub ratio works. I'm not seeing any blobs and didn't my first time and got 3 good flushes a shoebox. Happy to have found the link on discord to your new channel, i was upset when i noticed your old one was no longer active. Good shit bro, you're giving BoomerShroomer a run for her money lololololol Don't hurt me hahaha
I've been using pastywhyte's ez dial monos on 27 and 30 quart tubs. It's never failed me. Great video great information!
My pleasure 🙏
Congrats on 100 subscribers! Have some engagement!
Could you provide weights in addition to volume? Weight is a superior measure, right?
The only ingredient measured by weight is the coir. Everything else is volumetric.
Glad to see people spreading the true liner knowledge. Thoughts on adding gypsum? Also, why not "dub tub" with the shoeboxes as opposed to buying the bigger "sweater box"?
Gypsum is unnecessary, especially in the substrate. You can dub tub if you prefer, I prefer to do it this way, is all.
@@StipeCap Hi there, could you elaborate on why you feel gypsum is unnecessary?
@@MissBlackMetal Gypsum isn't necessary for the healthy growth of all species, it is more often used in the gourmet industry because of the species grown and the limited amount of spawn used.
Active species rely upon the excessive use of cereal grains to function as nutritional supplementation to fuel spawn run and fructification. Gourmet production blocks rely heavily on amendments like gypsum, bran, soy hulls, etc, to reduce the requirement for excessive spawn use and production.
You can use gypsum if you want but it's unnecessary because we already over-supplement with grain spawn. Many active species are sensitive to over-supplementation, as well as mutant varieties.
Can't stack dub-tubs.
@@StipeCapif I were to use the uncle Ben rice tek as my spawn am I still in a position to not need the gypsum
I like it a lot, I'm going to try it. You could probably use even more water than that. I use that much water with way less verm and coir.
I'm sure that I could get away with another Liter or so, without exceeding field capacity. I haven't experienced a need for more water yet, though.
I vary the amount of water I use depending on how much verm I add. Half a quart of water per quart of additional verm.@@StipeCap
What variety of mushrooms do you grow in this? Can you grow button mushrooms?
You can spawn grain to steel wool. Anything that holds water and air at the same time will work.
Steel wool doesn't sound very absorbent, but yes, essentially. Any inert material capable of holding sufficient water will work.
Thanks man, great stuff. I'm high in the mountains and moisture is always an issue. I love the idea of increasing the sub,...duh! I've always thought that the traditional guidance of squeezing sub to check "field capacity" was a weak way to test and it always left my sub drier than I thought it should be. Therefore, I looked into what the term "field capacity" actually meant according to real soil scientists and engineers. It turns out that it has nothing to do with squeezing soil and is strictly the amount of water the soil will hold w/out dripping. This is way more than the "squeeze method" allows for and probably accounts for your improved 5l vs. 4l recipe. I've not had a chance to run any grain since I saw your vid or learns about proper field capacity, but looking forward to the tests. I did have a question re the fruiting chamber. Since you have the extra moisture, are you able to set and forget and not bother with misting? Thanks for your great content.
Set and forget, the best and only way to grow ; )
I was a Soil Scientist decades ago. You've got it right. If anyone wants a demo: squeeze a sponge, let it fill with water. Let water drip out. Water left in the sponge would be comparble to it's field capactiy
@@Will-Max Thanks a ton Will. I was always frustrated by the "vagueness" of how people described checking field capacity. I'd find myself yelling at a book or video saying things like "Squeeze???? WTF does that mean?" remembering Alton Brown's Good Eats episode about his grandmother's elusive biscuits ultimately due to her arthritis. It seemed that if water was that important, there had to be a better way. Good to know there is a repeatable technique from the sciences side of things. In fact, I'm just harvesting some of my best tubs right now thanks to using the "if it drips on the floor, add more coir" method :)
If your field capacity is more or less on point, then there should be no real need to mist at all, at least until the first flush. The substrate is primarily a water reservoir, rather than the main food source, as some still think, so if it's set up properly to begin with, which doesn't need to be an exact science, then it's pretty much just leaving it alone until pins appear. Those channels and sites (not Stipe I hasten to add), that tell people to mist and fan tubs are based on long debunked misinformation about cultivation.
@@Will-Max This is so simple and logical that it seems obvious when I hear it. Thank you.
just a heads up doggie bags make perfect liners for shoeboxes and they come in a nice roll
Great tip 👌
Just make sure to get the ones for larger dogs!
The best video on this by far!! Question for you. Does all the extra substrate waste mushroom energy to colonise it or does it just grow threw it when it is so thick? / does it actually colonise it?
Doesn't waste anything, and yes, it becomes completely colonized.
@@StipeCap I don't understand. Wouldn't colonizing all that additional material consume energy as the substrate doesn't have any nutritional value? I've always wanted to learn more on substrate so any answers/insights hugely appreciated. I haven't come a good source that explains/understands it... Except for you!!
The substrate is just an inert water reservoir and latticework for the mycelium to colonize, the energy/nutrients are supplied by the cereal grains which provide all the necessary micro and micronutrients for the mycelium.
This is why nutritional supplements and nitrogen-rich substrates are unnecessary. All supplementation is provided by the grain. Most gourmet blocks are supplemented at between 15-25% using bran; a 1:6 spawn-to-substrate ratio is 28% supplementation by comparison.
Bran is a grain supplement, grains are nutrient and calorie-dense food that is capable of supporting the entire life cycle of the colony.
Any substrate that contains nitrogen or other supplements requires either pasteurization, or sterilization, depending upon the source/nature of supplementation. This is why coir and vermiculite are preferable due to their inert nature. Cereal grains for spawn production ARE the food/supplementation, making the addition of more in the way of substrate amendments like manure, coffee, or any other source of nutrients not only unnecessary but complicates the process with the requirement to pasteurize.
Nutrient-dense substrates promote the growth of mold when improperly processed. The risk-to-reward ratio is skewed too far toward risk. Spawn is all that is required.
You put the spawn in, then 6 qts sub. Did you even mix it in? You didn’t show it and the spawn was on half of the side. It looked like about have a quart of spawn? Great video. Will try pe this way because a huge 70qt was a cluster.
Yes, 1q of spawn. I didn't think anyone needed to see the mixing of spawn with the substrate, but it's been brought up more than once.
@@StipeCap I saw the jar you used was not quite 1 qt. About 3/4 full. I should’ve done that because it’s hard to break and shake. If you are using LC to inoculate how many cc per jar. 5?
Don't smack mason jars with your hands. The glass isn't tempered and can fracture from the pressure cooking process. Unless you want a bunch of glass imbedded in your skin, use a towel.
I tried repeating what you did. Right now my substrate is 90% colonized and there is no colonization on my casing layer. Visually the layers are very distinct. I'm concerned that I may have packed my casing layer too compact. Do you think that's a possibility and has that happened to you?
Nope, it's fine. I know folks that use their entire body weight to compress. Be patient.
You only need a 1/4"-1/2" of a psuedo casing layer. And a 2/1 or 3/1 sub to spawn ratio. Anything more is just silly. Plus with all of that extra time youll have to wait for bulk colonization it wont make any difference in fruits. Keep it simple. Fruiting chambers arent needed either. Just shoe box, 2/1 ration sub to spawn, a 1/4" pseudo casing so the sub comes up a little lower than half way full in the shoebox, and youll have faster colonization time, and great flushes of fruits. ❤
@@PhillyPyroKev I've been experimenting with sub to spawn ratios and that seems to be what I'm realizing as well in terms of colonization times I've also shortened to my casing layer thickness to around 1/4" to 1/2" and it's now colonizing. I've been also experimenting with lightly spreading my pseudo-casing vs. packing and for now (my first experiment and I'm still waiting for fruits) I do prefer the packed version, just from a visual standpoint. I'm waiting for fruits in the next two weeks to really understand the what my yields are from all variations in sub to spawn and packing. Thanks for the advice!
Silly is my jam.
Do you mix up the substrate and spawn? Or do you leave it at the bottom?
Mix it thoroughly by shaking it all together with the lid on.
At around 7:52 I was wondering where the drums were coming from.
I need to hire a drummer...
Have you found a substantial difference in performance with the various vermiculite types? Course, medium, fine. And if so, what have you found to be the best performer? Thank you for any info
I find medium to be best, not too fine, not too coarse.
@@StipeCap Thank you very much! I appreciate the info.
So i have 2 6qts using this method (not PE) that i didnt use a liner on to see how they would colonize and i knew there would be side pinning so no suprise there but what im noticing is that primordia was forming through the psuedo and now i have pins coming up through the top layer with barely any sign of mycelium on the surface and only a few small patches of primordia. Its been a little over 20 days. Have you ever had this issue with this method in the past? Or is there something im missing or can try differently?
Yep, that happens due to the layers being separated by compression. This is why the psuedo-casing can function as a casing layer, totally normal, nothing to worry about.
With the excess substrate, 20 days is bang on. 👌
Also, you can use clear plastic for liner materials so you can monitor performance.
Does innoculated grain need to be in the dark? And do PE cubes need at least a pseudo casing? And can you go straight to Unicorn Bags without them being sterile?
Light is beneficial at all stages of growth. Some PE requires casing, some don't. You can spawn to unicorn bags if they're employed as fruiting chambers with coir/vermiculite.
im eating portobello because is my favorite and are vary exspensive
Did you mix your grain with the coir or just leave the grain layer at the bottom & top it off with coir?
Mixed into bottom layer, then topped.
Hey just wanted to say thanks for the knowledge
Whats the brand of your pressure cooker or autoclave? Instapot sounds fun but please tell me more of your sterile tek.
All American 75x
You can use the big 10 pound bricks of coir and a 27gal rubbermaid tote. Buckets aren't very space efficient.
They're rigid and stackable, I prefer buckets. 1 bucket = 1 tub.
So are the tubs. And the lids are easier to get off than bucket lids, you don't need a tool.@@StipeCap
27 gallons vs 5 gallons@@StipeCap
Don't need a tool for what? I use a trowel to level and compact my substrate, which is easier to achieve using a flat tool.
If I were going to use anything larger than a bucket, I'd use a stock tank, but I prefer buckets.
i've already got a ton of mason jars, what would you think of packing wide mouth quarts like that shoebox, and putting them side by side in a big tub?
Yep, bottle grows are a thing
How do you get the spawn? (Also whats a flush) I wanna try making mushrooms for myself, any tips would be great. Another question, whats the difference between the too layer and substrate? And whats the grain?
Start with a grow kit, read a ton of “shroomery” it’s a forum about growing in internet, start with little, and never do something without doublecheck in mushroom cultivation, I learned that the hard way
Don’t start with grow kit do a bunch of reasearch about how to make your own grain jars there is ways to cultivate mushrooms for less than 50$
@@yourMom-jl6kp ^ This. Do not use a grow kit.
Hi, do you test field capacity by hand?
I've done it enough times that it comes out right without usually having to check.
@@StipeCap Hi, will this batch of coco with verm be enough for 2 shoeboxes, or do you use just for one. Ty
New question, do you have issues with fungal knats? I don't know where they come from but they somehow just appear. Would love a solution if anyone has any ideas.
I've never had an issue with them but I've heard of people placing their tubs in what amounts to bug netting to prevent them from entering your grow.
As well as Stipe's advice, you can put some holes in a tub, cover with filters that are cheap and easy to get and keep the lid sealed. So long as the filters allow air the mushrooms will grow just fine and it will keep out fungus gnats.
that does seem like a lot of sub. how well do you mix the spawn and sub? i know you mentioned shaking it up but the videos makes it look like the spawn sits all at the bottom
It's mixed as well as it can be. I just didn't think to show the mixing, it's pretty self-explanatory.
Quick question didn't see you spray your shoebox before leaving it to colonize. Do you spray with water before leaving to colonize?
No, the increased substrate holds enough water to carry the first flush without misting.
@StipeCap Alright cool, I appreciate the response. I'm planning on keeping my 6qt shoeboxs inside a 166qt tub, big enough for 4 6qt tubs. Just wondering if you think the pasty whytes tub fae holes will be okay for 4 6qt tubs inside a 166qt tub?
@TheKenjondoe should be gtg
@StipeCap I appreciate it bud!
Are you growing indoors? Does it stink? Would you recommend growing in a bedroom?
Yes, indoors. No, it doesn't stink, any room is fine.
Why 5 liters to 900g of coco vs traditional 650g to 4 liters? That means your doing a liter per 180g of the coco on your coir recipe and then a liter per 162g of coco in the traditional recipe which is significant amount of water difference and more water per gram in the traditional recipe. Is there a specific reson why there is less of a water ratio when doing a 900g brick?
The only purpose for the coir and verm is to hold water without exceeding field capacity, so, if you want more water to push a denser/heavier flush, you need more water.
I use water efficiency as a method of tracking culture performance much like how people use the biological efficiency equation, except in terms of the percentage of water utilized by the first flush.
5L = 5k grams, I want my culture to utilize 50% of that water to produce its first flush at a minimum. The first flush @ 50% should be a minimum of 2500 wet grams, the higher the ratio, the better.
So to generate this level of performance I need more than the standard amount of coir or I'll end up exceeding field capacity.
The above recipe is for larger tubs, but I use it to portion out to smaller tubs when required.
@@StipeCap Damn, this is such good information. Thank you.
I’ve seen pre mixed bags of choir and vermiculite for sale but it has gypsum in it? Is that ok?
Coir and vermiculite are cheap, do it yourself.
At fruiting are you just opening the purple levers and unsealing letting the lid just float on top?
There are no separate fruiting conditions. Mycelium has been found to benefit from light and air at all stages.
What is the name of that flattening tool?
It's a trowel.
So you don't mix the spawn with the substrate? Just leave it on the bottom
Mix thoroughly 👌
@StipeCap thank you
@sugargraham6868 don't mix spawn into the top layer though, just the base layer.
@@StipeCap thanks!
So the substrate and casing layer is the same material?
Yep, that's why it's called a psuedo-casing.
I wish you did all weights instead of mixing weight and volume
That's how it's done.
I’ve had great success laying a layer of vermiculite...cakes in next layer.... pseudo case w verm. Gold n white lasagne 👏
That seems like a lot of substrate for just one quart of spawn.
The rationale is explained in the video.
What do you do for second/ third flush?
Spray liberally with mist, indirectly. There's enough water in the substrate to carry dense flushes. No need to dunk.
@@StipeCap can you elaborate on spraying "indirectly"? Thank you for being so helpful.
@@buttninjaflex Just spray well above the substrate and let the mist fall.
How is that 1 qt of spawn if the quart jar is half empty?
You have to allow room for shaking/breaking the grain. If you overfill it becomes very difficult to shake.
This is how we refer to spawn volume. The actual volume isn't an entire q, we use the jar size as a reference.
@@StipeCap but then wouldn’t the ratio be 1:12 since you’re only using 1 pint of grain spawn to 6 qts of sub?
Part two?
Why are you only worried about contamination during spawn and not the steps after that
Because coir/vermiculite that has been expanded via hot water has no contaminant organisms. Competitor organisms will piggyback on contaminated spawn, infecting the substrate.
This is why clean spawn is so important. This is not the case however with manure substrates that can mold when improperly processed.
Love that tool
same handle as shroomery?
Pretty much.
@@StipeCap Hello brother…. These videos are fantastic.
@bendrixbailey1430 Much obliged.
Can you grow saffron milk caps on this substrate , I am also in Ontario canada
I'm not sure.
Thanks how long does it take for it to pin and fruit
@@JohnLopez-h2u It takes as long as it takes, since there are several variables.
also great video thank you!
Glad you enjoyed 😉
What brand vermiculite do you recommend?
I use the 4ft³ bags of Holiday brand vermiculite.
@@StipeCap Thank you for the reply bud. So I just want to clarify you only use 900gs of coco, 3L of Vermiculite and 5L of hot tap water(unless using manure). And no gypsum correct? Sorry for the questions, my first grow dried up after only 2 harvest and 2 aborts pins. I'm guessing either because excessive fanning which I saw fuzzy stems so I upped my fanning to 3 times a day, also my substrate wasn't filled to the top like your it's only about half way up a 6qt container so maybe not enough substrate to pull moisture from. So this time around I'm going to follow what you did and hopefully I can have a nice yield on my second grow.
@TheKenjondoe Yes, 900g coir, 3L verm, 5L water. Never use manure, ever, and never fan, fanning is pointless.
Here:
www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27426583/page/1
@@StipeCap Okay thanks for the info, you're awesome!
What if horse manure is the only material available? I can’t get gypsum or cococoir where I live so I just pasteurized some horse poo with 5% gypsum… was looking for the best option available for my spawn
Did I understand that correctly? You're not even pasteurizing that substrate?
I've been using 50/50 for years but I always pasteurize for 90 to 120 minutes. If you're suggesting it doesn't require pasteurization, that will save me a lot of time.
Yep, straight coir doesn't require pasteurization.
It’is when being processed so it’s not required. Personally i still would just to be careful.
I think I'll continue to pasteurize since I get my coir from the farm supply store in 40 lb bags. Those bags are stored on pallets outdoors so they get rained on and are exposed to the elements. I'd rather be safe than sorry
@alexgreen8846 there's nothing that very hot or boiled water can't achieve that the time-temperature window for pasteurization can when considering the substrate in question.
Pasteurization is required for manure or peat-based substrates due to the bioload of those substrates. Do not treat peat or manure with boiling water because the trace nitrogen will become vulnerable to competitive molds, the boiling water kills the beneficial microbes that keep manure substrates happy and healthy.
Coir on the other hand is non-nutritive, essentially inert hydroponic medium. There are however differences in quality, some very low-quality brands may contain detritus and other filth that is best treated with boiled water. There is absolutely no requirement to pasteurize coir or vermiculite.
interesting no mixing all on bottom. next time I will do it this way.
He closed the lid and gave it a thorough shake before compression. Just didn't show it in the video 👍
yep, got to get it all mixed in or it would take forever to colonize, it takes long enough as is with the extra sub.
Oh OK, then that's what I'm already accustomed to doing.
@@StipeCap
How long did it take to colonize?
@@JalaJala007 depends on the cultivar, but PE takes about 20 days.
❤❤
IMO. That coco would have broken evenly, with the letters up and then forcing the middle against edge of counter or something. Just a thought obviously not a big deal , just my ocd kicking in😅
Am I 101?
226
My fav. 226 has a ship's anchor on the slide
@@StipeCap
followed this tutorial to the T and first one is blobbing. Will see how the Other 8 do soon. pe👍
Pe has a tendency to blob as I understand. Good luck.
@@TeaTellyWMaria yes but this tutorial is supposed to solve that. it did for me. 50/50 of the time.
@ixxgxx keep dialing it in and you'll get it 👍
nice one
Thanks, my lad.
One thing, I want to urge everyone to stop calling those mushrooms “penis envy.” For obvious reasons.
How about we call them, “gargantuan blue bucket hats.”
Wut? PE is a great name
I just got stupid watching this 😒
Then you're absolutely going to love this
www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27426583/page/1
@@StipeCap ^ This is good stuff. 🙏
Do you have to put the substrate in two layers like you did? Or can i just fit it all in at once and compress it?
The point is to create 2 layers.
@StipeCap yeah, I see that, I'm just wondering would it make a difference if you just made it one layer? I mean it's all the same stuff so what's the difference between 1 layer, 2 layers, 3 layers ect.?
@imtypingwords only matter for a culture that blobs. All else can be run as a single unit if you so desire, but there are benefits to maintaining a top layer.