Hi. Framework owner here. if you want to support Framework, but aren't ready to buy a laptop, snag one of their USB-C chargers. It's the single most underrated part that ships with the framework laptop: small brick, doesn't block outlets, both ends of the cable are replaceable, and it can stretch from the wall to the opposite end of the couch. I have in my possession 7 other laptops, and none of them come with a power brick that checks all those boxes.
Lmao I have a $200 Chromebook in the charger is inconvenient asf, just putting it in my backpack doubles the amount of space taken up by chargers. If the specs are safe for it I might unironically pick it up. Then I'll have it ready when I get my framework.
I just preordered my 13th gen intel framework laptop today :) it’s really nice to see the owner out watching videos and interacting with the community!
Gonna go ahead and say if you think it's worth asking if the video idea is worth doing . . . Just do it. So far every video I've watched where you have suggested a video dealing with the framework I've had the thought "yeah I'd watch that".
Unfortunately the TH-cam Algorithm punishes creators for having "breakout" videos by suppressing impressions on the next videos that would otherwise perform normally.
You already go through all the details. Like how you confirmed all ports work and how the USBC expansion card does not effect performance. I love it. Well done.
WHY THIS CLIP IS UNDER 30K VIEWS? My man did the test THOUSANDS of people were waiting for. Great vid. Definitely purchasing one of these bad boys asap.
Aside the lid open, I also have the back of my Framework propped up so the intakes can breathe easier. I've yet to buy the proper laptop stand. I'm running a 2070 Super in the same Razer Core X.
@@ElevatedSystems I have no recorded concrete stats, but this 2070 Super is definitely performing worse than it did in my i5-9600K desktop I used before the Framework. Since the CPU isn't pegged during games, I blame the reduced PCIe lanes. Also I forgot to mention/ask. Do you have bitlocker on, and what's your trick to keep the eGpu removal/add from triggering the recovery key? I suspend protection before I do a reboot if the eGPU change will be involved.
I don't have bitlocker enabled, but if you are running into issues I think it's still possible to just suspended bitlocker without decrypting the drive.
I've been searching for an eGPU video for days, and have not been able to find a video that answered my questions on what range of graphics cards would work best. I don't care about bottlenecks when I know I can't afford a 3080 anyways. Bonus points if I could find out how the performance compared to my integrated graphics on my framework. Your video answered basically all my questions in the first 5 minutes! Have a thumbs up!
I just learned about Framework laptops today through LTT, this is so exciting!!! Love the way you present topics, subbed! The cooling design flaw is a great catch, you should tell the framework team
That's not really a design flaw, there are some laptops that have the intake behind the hinges also Asus adopted the concept of using the lid open as a riser to give more breathing room to the intake under the laptop. In general laptops are just design to work with the lid open, I feel the idea of having the laptop docked with the lid closed became trending with some Mac books, but I have never seen a manufacturer suggesting that kind of use. In any case, the cool thing about the framework is that in theory you could make a different type of chassis for that use, or they could upgrade it with less hassle if a lot of people wanted that
Thanks so much for answering my exact question. I saw on the Framework FAQ basically what you said, "we can't legally call it Thunderbolt until it gets a sticker." But still wasn't clear if you could actually use it with Thunderbolt devices unofficially in the meantime.
About game ready vs studio drivers: From my experience, using studio drivers limits how much gpu time is given to an application, percentage wise. When i was using the studio drivers, my quadro was never maxing out when rendering in cycles, never went above 60%, or something like that. When switching to the gAmInG drivers, rendering made use of around 100% when needed, and rendertimes went down. Might have been a bug back then that's since been solved, idk.
I've been so excited for this video, thanks so much! Ever since I saw your community post, I've been anxiously waiting and I've seen nothing else eGPU related for this laptop which makes it so much better!
Yeah I'd suggest increasing the font size and dropping the 3D effect on the bar plots - as a data viz guy I can feel Edward Tufte's disapproval of this radiating from somewhere over my shoulder.
I came here to see the review of framework but I am gonna stay here because how high quality your videos are. Only the second video that I watched from you and you already made me subscribe. Nice job 👌
Apple did do something to a port certification in the past which required a software update that I can't recall. Maybe usb or wifi 5. They charged $1 for this "update" to activate it.
Wow, I’m glad you told us about the exhaust issue with the lid closed. I really don’t even plan on having an eGPU with this computer, but my default state with my laptop is to use it 90% of the time connected to external displays with separate keyboard, mouse, etc and I always have the lid _closed_ and just have a fan below my laptop. That really sucks!
9:57 Energy test, I assume it's performance per electricity unit. Hence the high number for a more efficient chip (in this case Iris Xe is super efficient).
I think I will choose to wait a few more months for the Alder Lake Mobile to get potentially much better efficiency and performance as well as for the eGPU setup.
Love how you're giving a down to earth review here. Many reviewers only do max-power testing when reviewing which can actually feel quite alienating when you just want a "normal end-user" review. I don't intend on running anything more than a 1060 in my eGPU, I'm just to boost the performance of the laptop for the meagre amount of gaming I do. I was sold on a Framework from your video from Feb 2022 but this put any lingering doubts to rest. Thanks!
If anyone is looking for more info on FPS for different games, see below. Setup is a 12th Gen i7-1260P with an IETS G500, 32GB and a old Razer Core X (not V2 or Chroma) with a AMD 6700XT OC and respectively a RTX 2080 Ti. The results were almost identical except 2-4 FPS (2080 Ti > 6700 XT). The IETS lowers the CPU temperatue by 7-10°C on full speed and after one hour of gaming but beware of the noise. All games on 2560×1440, high-ish graphic settings, without raytracing and on an external display. FPS values are averaged. Lowest number shows the "dip" when entering/looking at a wider landscape or larger battle. I don't record 1% dips. 1) Warzone 2.0 (BR): 58-87 FPS 2) Baldur's Gate 3: 49-66 FPS 3) Detroit Become Human: 38-55 FPS 4) RDR 2: 47-62 FPS 5) Cyberpunkt 2077: 34-65 FPS 6) Halo Infinite: 61-90 FPS 7) CS:GO 200-280 FPS Feel free to ask for different games in the comments. If I own them, I'll test them and edit the original post with the values.
Yes. Results are similar to the ones ElevatedSystems shows in his video. 200-280 FPS. I got some sort of thermal CPU throttle in most games if I run an external Display on more than 1920x1080 for longer than an hour. The IETS really solved that issue for me. The 300 is more quiet but needs some tweaking to fit the 13,5".
Apple OWNED “Thunderbolt” at one time, then gifted it to Intel. My history is fuzzy but both companies were involved with “Thunderbolt”. I remember two things: 1) Lots of coverage over the name “Thunderbolt” being released by Apple (back?) to Intel. 2) major tech companies hesitation at adopting “Thunderbolt” bc of Apple’s involvement. I haven’t followed the Thunderbolt saga but Apple WAS heavily involved at it’s creation with Intel.
Yes I remember that as well. That’s why MacBooks had easy to use thunderbolt way before anyone else. Sony had one of the first iterations of thunderbolt from Intel back in 2011 with their Vaio Z eGPU connected with fiber optic “lightpeak” unfortunately it was proprietary to only that laptop and dock.
I would absolutely love a framework, but main use case for a laptop is photo editing on the go. Unless I can swap the screen to a really colour accurate one, it's not for me, but I love the consumer first and repairability mindset behind it!!
(3:46) You not using it for gaming stuff, is something I can relate to! I too have a GTX 1070 and I'm not really a gamer, aside from using some apps that make use of Steam's DRM. Instead, I too use it for graphics and productivity work, like running 4 monitors at once, as well as video editing, photo editing, and 3D stuff too.
Just ordered my batch 5! This thing is gonna be my daily driver for the next five years, easy. I don't think it has dawned on the general public that there are FOUR THUNDERBOLT 4 PORTS on this device. Not one, not two, not three - FOUR. On a laptop I can get for $1000.
Have you considered a module thats like a dock for the laptop? so you can arrive home and connect it to a mouse and keyboard, a monitor and to the egpu
That would make for a nice video though, turning your framework into a desktop rig with dedicated graphics lol. There are plenty of "universal" docking solutions based on Thunderbolt 3. Those would be great since they generally add a bunch of ports, some of which the framework lacks (e.g.: rj45/ethernet). I'm not sure how well that'd work simultaneously with the eGPU, if it works at all.
This laptop is probably what I will swap too for on the go and work, though I can't/wouldn't get it now. I really can't wait for what they plan for a next generation even if they are still busy shipping the current model and it takes a while compared too mainstream companies to complete a new model.
I'm glad you made a video on this because I actually have this laptop and was curious about using an Egpu with it as my younger brother wants a new gaming machine but one that takes up minimal space.
That would be a motherboard with no CPU. Which actually sounds dope. Only problem I can see is a lot of wasted space with a standard case, that Razer enclosure is already much chonkier than I'd like. What I'd love is a nice flat eGPU case I can incorporate into my home theater setup.
Getting double bandwidth means having not just two ports but two controllers on both the laptop and the eGPU. Thunderbolt shares bandwidth across all the connectors on the system. I don't know how easy it is to make two TB controllers play nice with one PCIe backbone.
@@AlRoderick Ah, therefore all the ports on a laptop or a single Thunderbolt card share the 40Gbps bandwidth, and therefore plugging multiple of those ports in will result in no difference?
Maybe when we get USB4 PCIe cards. I would find it amusing to install a card in an older system even if there isn’t enough bandwidth to actually get much benefit from an eGPU (as it would still allow external SSDs with greater bandwidth).
Elevated Systems Oh that’s awesome! Could you do a tutorial on that specific to the frame work laptop. I have mine on the way and I’d feel better if I knew how to lock the TDP.
I have to say, another outstanding video. Thank you so much for your comprehensive coverage of the framework. I have done from skeptical to a believer. The whole platform is amazingly interesting to me.
I'd like to see what the performance hit is with daisy chaining, eg. Laptop -> TB3 dock -> eGPU. This way you get to connect the laptop to ethernet, USB, etc. with just one cable.
Ok that's it's I'm convinced, I'm buying framework for my next laptop as soon as it's available in my region. I already have a 2060 egpu. I do gaming and productivity. SOLIDWORKS and my steam library lol. Thank for your for you coverage my man, reall helpful.
@@ElevatedSystems Well, I got that. But if the GPU only takes, idk, 1ms to render an image on low graphics, at 60 fps it will idle more than on high graphics with 2ms per image. So how would higher graphics settings make the CPU faster?
@@mr.norris3840 The CPU is rendering at the same speed but since the GPU framerates have slowed down its not having to wait on the CPU to deliver its part of the frame. Therefore higher 1% lows. Look at any resolution scaling benchmark. As you go from 1080p to 4k on the same system, same game, the gap between Avg fps and 1% low fps gets smaller.
Something I've been wondering about eGPUs Say I plug in an External RTX 3090 Ti to my laptop. Can I then use that graphics card to play RTX capable games that otherwise would not work with RTX enabled on said laptop?
Yes RTX would work. However, there are very few laptops that would warrant a 3090 as you would be leaving about $2000 worth of performance on the table. If you can afford a 3090 you can probably afford to build an entire gaming PC.
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. The 10 extra minutes to render video or 20 FPS will change nothing at the end of the day. You’ll still do the same jobs and make the same money.
....well i might consider making this my daily gaming device, i already have a rtx 3060 and a egpu enclosure, only thing i'd need is a usb c hud for a keyboard and mouse and probably more storage
10:00 that it's thanks to the development of the software that is single threaded. Similar to a CPU, GPU has cores for multi-thread process and that's the magic of the GPU, to have a crap ton of tiny cores and memory bandwidth to compute repetitive calculations. A CPU, in contrast, has strong cores capable of multiple tasks simultaneously. The comparison I always use with my students is to imagine 30 persons trying to tier-down one wall of the school using hammers: it's gonna be hard, but fun and fast because we have a lot of people. That's how GPU works: same task to every core. Now imagine to give an axe to Arnold Schwarzenegger in his youth to tier down a tree. That's can be easy for him but it could be the hardest task for 30 people with hammer (they are too many for a single tree, they need someone outside to coordinate them, it isn't fun...). The task it isn't build for the available manpower and tools. CPUs are strong workers that can do hard/complex task (single).
Great video, coulnd't care less about gaming performance as I'm interested on video editing. I'm tempted to migrate to this setup, performance CPU with eGPU, but I'm not entirely convinced of the thunderbolt v4 limits, as I'm currently using a high end gaming laptop.
Great video, thanks for running and presenting all these benchmarks in such an easy to understand manner. Did you have any issue with plug-and-play between the Framework and Core X? I use Core X (with a 1060 6GB) with my Thinkpad X1 Carbon Gen7, and I usually have to restart the laptop for it to see the GPU if I previously disconnected it at least once. How's Framework in this regard?
definitely curious on how the framework would handle as the streaming center of a two-pc setup or game console streaming machine with a capture card, or as something for a single PC learning/teaching style machine with the second display for coding, whiteboard, etc!
If you offload the igpu to the eGPU, and then route the eGPU displayport back to the framework laptop, would thunderbolt 3 benefit from the full downstream instead of sharing the up and down? Would the displayport allow the laptop screen to also go higher?
what are the thermals like when playing games? kind of trying to compare a gaming laptop to this to see if the thermals and sound levels would be better.
We need to make sure it gets heard, but this device is a first for them - I'm willing to give a bit of leeway there. Lets see if they address it in future products - they seem to be willing to listen to customers.
Would a Thunderbolt 4 e-GPU do better on those tests ? Not sure if the bottleneck would be resolved or not. Anyway I could not found any product of this kind. Thunderbolt4 is still too recent.
You said you had a 4 core. Is that the I5? I'm a full stack web developer and am considering this for a more portable computer for freelancing than my HP Omen 15 from about 4 years ago. The HP Omen 15 is an I7 but also a quad core. I'm pretty sure the I5 version of the framework would still be a performance improvement for coding and not a boat anchor in weight. I run Pop Os linux if that factors into your advice.
It's the I7-1165G7 which is a 4 core 8 thread part with a 96 EU iGPU. The I5-1135G7 is also 4C/8T but with a 500MHz reduced Freq and a cut down 80 EU iGPU.
@@ElevatedSystems Thanks for the reply! I'm also looking at the Acer Swift 3 in the 16gb config. It would probably be better for compiling code but everything is soldered. I think I want to do the Framework even if it's less ideal, for that reason.
Can you do a brief version of this test suite on Linux? With the litany of arbitrary restrictions Microsoft is imposing on Windows 11, I suspect a non-insignificant number of users will be pushed over to Linux (lol, me). I'm mostly just concerned with compatibility and driver support - if it picks up and can run games, I will be more than satisfied.
im getting zero help with this on their discord, can you use a egpu with the AMD framework 13? I have a spare 1660. EGPU cases seem expensive too. Any recomdations? My FW 13 comes q4 2023
You're getting zero help because the AMD FW 13 hasn't been released yet. Technically an egpu should work on it's USB4 but we won't know for sure until it can be tested.
@@ElevatedSystems Are you saying getting i7 1185G7 over i7 1165 or i5 isn't worth it because... not enough performance improvement compared to price increase, actually better performance on i5, or some other reason? I want to edit videos for TH-cam and similar, video streaming with 2 cameras, do web programming not involving compiling, non-3D graphics, and regular business and personal use. Was considering i7 with 64GB RAM, and 2-4TB SSD, instead of using a desktop or GPU. Are there processor/motherboard issues that would make the extra RAM or SSD not help that I am overlooking?
This video made me sad. Not because of your review. That was great! 👍 Keep the content coming! It made me sad when you mentioned the GPU prices currently here are most likely to stay 😢
Hi. Framework owner here. if you want to support Framework, but aren't ready to buy a laptop, snag one of their USB-C chargers. It's the single most underrated part that ships with the framework laptop: small brick, doesn't block outlets, both ends of the cable are replaceable, and it can stretch from the wall to the opposite end of the couch. I have in my possession 7 other laptops, and none of them come with a power brick that checks all those boxes.
Lmao I have a $200 Chromebook in the charger is inconvenient asf, just putting it in my backpack doubles the amount of space taken up by chargers.
If the specs are safe for it I might unironically pick it up. Then I'll have it ready when I get my framework.
I dont see the EU plug version on their site it does look cool tho and i would buy it
My old-ass laptop doesnt even have USB-C charging :p
I just preordered my 13th gen intel framework laptop today :) it’s really nice to see the owner out watching videos and interacting with the community!
@@ItzSurge Love your optimism, but I'm pretty sure they meant that they own a Framework laptop, not that they're Nirav Patel.
Gonna go ahead and say if you think it's worth asking if the video idea is worth doing . . . Just do it. So far every video I've watched where you have suggested a video dealing with the framework I've had the thought "yeah I'd watch that".
Agreed, I think he has a good nose for video ideas. More so if they’re related to Framework laptops!
Unfortunately the TH-cam Algorithm punishes creators for having "breakout" videos by suppressing impressions on the next videos that would otherwise perform normally.
@@ElevatedSystems oh, did not know. Thanks for the explanation.
@@73hectorprada Ya, if you look at the view count on the videos that directly follow my last 2 Framework videos you'll see what I mean.
*shakes fist* ALGORITHM!!!!!
You already go through all the details. Like how you confirmed all ports work and how the USBC expansion card does not effect performance. I love it. Well done.
WHY THIS CLIP IS UNDER 30K VIEWS? My man did the test THOUSANDS of people were waiting for. Great vid. Definitely purchasing one of these bad boys asap.
Aside the lid open, I also have the back of my Framework propped up so the intakes can breathe easier. I've yet to buy the proper laptop stand.
I'm running a 2070 Super in the same Razer Core X.
How are your 1% low FPS with that? Are you bumping up the quality settings to give the CPU some extra processing time?
@@ElevatedSystems I have no recorded concrete stats, but this 2070 Super is definitely performing worse than it did in my i5-9600K desktop I used before the Framework. Since the CPU isn't pegged during games, I blame the reduced PCIe lanes.
Also I forgot to mention/ask. Do you have bitlocker on, and what's your trick to keep the eGpu removal/add from triggering the recovery key? I suspend protection before I do a reboot if the eGPU change will be involved.
I don't have bitlocker enabled, but if you are running into issues I think it's still possible to just suspended bitlocker without decrypting the drive.
I've been searching for an eGPU video for days, and have not been able to find a video that answered my questions on what range of graphics cards would work best. I don't care about bottlenecks when I know I can't afford a 3080 anyways. Bonus points if I could find out how the performance compared to my integrated graphics on my framework. Your video answered basically all my questions in the first 5 minutes! Have a thumbs up!
I just learned about Framework laptops today through LTT, this is so exciting!!! Love the way you present topics, subbed!
The cooling design flaw is a great catch, you should tell the framework team
That's not really a design flaw, there are some laptops that have the intake behind the hinges also Asus adopted the concept of using the lid open as a riser to give more breathing room to the intake under the laptop. In general laptops are just design to work with the lid open, I feel the idea of having the laptop docked with the lid closed became trending with some Mac books, but I have never seen a manufacturer suggesting that kind of use.
In any case, the cool thing about the framework is that in theory you could make a different type of chassis for that use, or they could upgrade it with less hassle if a lot of people wanted that
@@walkinmn or they make another chassis with better air and labeled it as a new product in short time and provide only case too
Thanks so much for answering my exact question. I saw on the Framework FAQ basically what you said, "we can't legally call it Thunderbolt until it gets a sticker." But still wasn't clear if you could actually use it with Thunderbolt devices unofficially in the meantime.
About game ready vs studio drivers: From my experience, using studio drivers limits how much gpu time is given to an application, percentage wise. When i was using the studio drivers, my quadro was never maxing out when rendering in cycles, never went above 60%, or something like that. When switching to the gAmInG drivers, rendering made use of around 100% when needed, and rendertimes went down. Might have been a bug back then that's since been solved, idk.
Oh how I was expecting this video!! Thanks so much! Waiting for my system to arrive ❤️
I've been so excited for this video, thanks so much! Ever since I saw your community post, I've been anxiously waiting and I've seen nothing else eGPU related for this laptop which makes it so much better!
My cell phone has a 480p 3" display and the graphs were entirely unreadable for me lol. Glad you explained them all.
I have a 6.6" 1080p display, and the graphs were still hard to read, even when playing the 1440p video for the better bitrate. 😝
Yeah I'd suggest increasing the font size and dropping the 3D effect on the bar plots - as a data viz guy I can feel Edward Tufte's disapproval of this radiating from somewhere over my shoulder.
I have a 2160p panel. I could watch those benchmarks in 360p lol
@@kxrannn.g I'm so impressed wow 😍
This is really useful, thank you!!
I came here to see the review of framework but I am gonna stay here because how high quality your videos are. Only the second video that I watched from you and you already made me subscribe. Nice job 👌
Apple did do something to a port certification in the past which required a software update that I can't recall. Maybe usb or wifi 5. They charged $1 for this "update" to activate it.
Wow, I’m glad you told us about the exhaust issue with the lid closed. I really don’t even plan on having an eGPU with this computer, but my default state with my laptop is to use it 90% of the time connected to external displays with separate keyboard, mouse, etc and I always have the lid _closed_ and just have a fan below my laptop. That really sucks!
9:57 Energy test, I assume it's performance per electricity unit. Hence the high number for a more efficient chip (in this case Iris Xe is super efficient).
Also, at 16:00, I wonder if limiting FPS will help in increasing the 1% low or not.
I think I will choose to wait a few more months for the Alder Lake Mobile to get potentially much better efficiency and performance as well as for the eGPU setup.
I'm so excited to get my framework pro, it comes in thursday
I bought the farme work simply because they are so pro consumer in regards to the right to repair situation
Love how you're giving a down to earth review here. Many reviewers only do max-power testing when reviewing which can actually feel quite alienating when you just want a "normal end-user" review. I don't intend on running anything more than a 1060 in my eGPU, I'm just to boost the performance of the laptop for the meagre amount of gaming I do.
I was sold on a Framework from your video from Feb 2022 but this put any lingering doubts to rest. Thanks!
If anyone is looking for more info on FPS for different games, see below.
Setup is a 12th Gen i7-1260P with an IETS G500, 32GB and a old Razer Core X (not V2 or Chroma) with a AMD 6700XT OC and respectively a RTX 2080 Ti. The results were almost identical except 2-4 FPS (2080 Ti > 6700 XT).
The IETS lowers the CPU temperatue by 7-10°C on full speed and after one hour of gaming but beware of the noise.
All games on 2560×1440, high-ish graphic settings, without raytracing and on an external display.
FPS values are averaged. Lowest number shows the "dip" when entering/looking at a wider landscape or larger battle. I don't record 1% dips.
1) Warzone 2.0 (BR): 58-87 FPS
2) Baldur's Gate 3: 49-66 FPS
3) Detroit Become Human: 38-55 FPS
4) RDR 2: 47-62 FPS
5) Cyberpunkt 2077: 34-65 FPS
6) Halo Infinite: 61-90 FPS
7) CS:GO 200-280 FPS
Feel free to ask for different games in the comments. If I own them, I'll test them and edit the original post with the values.
Do you have cs:go? I'm curious as I have the 11th gen and had severe CPU thermal issues
Yes. Results are similar to the ones ElevatedSystems shows in his video. 200-280 FPS. I got some sort of thermal CPU throttle in most games if I run an external Display on more than 1920x1080 for longer than an hour. The IETS really solved that issue for me. The 300 is more quiet but needs some tweaking to fit the 13,5".
@@AljoschaB what is IETS?
Almost pushed the buy button until I noticed that the laptop exhaust via the top. None of the other reviews, ahem, including LTT, mentioned it.
Apple OWNED “Thunderbolt” at one time, then gifted it to Intel. My history is fuzzy but both companies were involved with “Thunderbolt”. I remember two things: 1) Lots of coverage over the name “Thunderbolt” being released by Apple (back?) to Intel. 2) major tech companies hesitation at adopting “Thunderbolt” bc of Apple’s involvement. I haven’t followed the Thunderbolt saga but Apple WAS heavily involved at it’s creation with Intel.
Yes I remember that as well. That’s why MacBooks had easy to use thunderbolt way before anyone else. Sony had one of the first iterations of thunderbolt from Intel back in 2011 with their Vaio Z eGPU connected with fiber optic “lightpeak” unfortunately it was proprietary to only that laptop and dock.
Thunderbolt was developed by both Apple and Intel.
@@alexander_strachan thats what they said
Apple created Thunderbolt, then turned it over to Intel to manage.
I would absolutely love a framework, but main use case for a laptop is photo editing on the go. Unless I can swap the screen to a really colour accurate one, it's not for me, but I love the consumer first and repairability mindset behind it!!
Just curious, what do you use?
That was a realy intersting video, as I was considering the Framework for a new laptop, but wrote it off Resolve.
This is the video I have been searching for far and wide.
(3:46) You not using it for gaming stuff, is something I can relate to! I too have a GTX 1070 and I'm not really a gamer, aside from using some apps that make use of Steam's DRM. Instead, I too use it for graphics and productivity work, like running 4 monitors at once, as well as video editing, photo editing, and 3D stuff too.
Just ordered my batch 5! This thing is gonna be my daily driver for the next five years, easy. I don't think it has dawned on the general public that there are FOUR THUNDERBOLT 4 PORTS on this device. Not one, not two, not three - FOUR. On a laptop I can get for $1000.
Have you considered a module thats like a dock for the laptop? so you can arrive home and connect it to a mouse and keyboard, a monitor and to the egpu
That would make for a nice video though, turning your framework into a desktop rig with dedicated graphics lol.
There are plenty of "universal" docking solutions based on Thunderbolt 3. Those would be great since they generally add a bunch of ports, some of which the framework lacks (e.g.: rj45/ethernet). I'm not sure how well that'd work simultaneously with the eGPU, if it works at all.
this is really too good to be true...
yet you still manage to do it..
NICE
TIL spreadsheet calculations are sometimes GPU-accelerated
I was curious about this the other day. Thanks for doing the testing.
This laptop is probably what I will swap too for on the go and work, though I can't/wouldn't get it now. I really can't wait for what they plan for a next generation even if they are still busy shipping the current model and it takes a while compared too mainstream companies to complete a new model.
They’re shipping Intel 12th gen now. Unfortunately they still don’t have any AMD options, but I decided to pull the trigger and got mine in last week
how about a video making a custom case?
"If I do an EGPU demo and don't include gaming performance you'll all crucify me".
True
I'm glad you made a video on this because I actually have this laptop and was curious about using an Egpu with it as my younger brother wants a new gaming machine but one that takes up minimal space.
Great video! I still wish there were an external thunderbolt “enclosure” in an mITX form factor so I could still use my own case and power supply…
That would be a motherboard with no CPU. Which actually sounds dope. Only problem I can see is a lot of wasted space with a standard case, that Razer enclosure is already much chonkier than I'd like. What I'd love is a nice flat eGPU case I can incorporate into my home theater setup.
What is the technical problem with having an eGPU that uses 2 thunderbolt ports, giving us 8 lanes of bandwidth?
Getting double bandwidth means having not just two ports but two controllers on both the laptop and the eGPU. Thunderbolt shares bandwidth across all the connectors on the system. I don't know how easy it is to make two TB controllers play nice with one PCIe backbone.
@@AlRoderick Ah, therefore all the ports on a laptop or a single Thunderbolt card share the 40Gbps bandwidth, and therefore plugging multiple of those ports in will result in no difference?
@@AlRoderick So it turns out that the Framework laptop has 2 thunderbolt controllers. One for the left pair and one for the right pair of ports.
4:23. I have had a 5700 xt from my pc this might be good for me
USB4, theoretically will eliminate all the BS and make AMD vs Intel matter less. Will it really happen? Doubt it lol.
I cant see why not, but thats just me and my opinion.
Give it 2 years...
Maybe when we get USB4 PCIe cards. I would find it amusing to install a card in an older system even if there isn’t enough bandwidth to actually get much benefit from an eGPU (as it would still allow external SSDs with greater bandwidth).
Can you try undervolting the laptop and or disabling turbo? I am interested in any thermal performance gains for light productivity.
I daily drive it locked at it's 15W TDP for all my productivity work. It runs cool, quiet, and performs great.
Elevated Systems Oh that’s awesome! Could you do a tutorial on that specific to the frame work laptop. I have mine on the way and I’d feel better if I knew how to lock the TDP.
@@brandonmiller555 It's easy just select "Best Power Efficiency" power profile in Windows settings. That limits the CPU to 15 watts.
Elevated Systems Thank you so much for the info. Now I’ll happily wait for my batch 5 model!
Thank you for explaining this!
I have to say, another outstanding video. Thank you so much for your comprehensive coverage of the framework. I have done from skeptical to a believer. The whole platform is amazingly interesting to me.
My only question is when will they start shipping to Asia
I'd really like to see tests of OBS Streaming on Linux with the eGPU. Thanks for this video! Was very informative.
Wow, can't wait for my order to ship for batch 4 😬
Amazing explanation and benchmarks, thank you for that 👍
How unluckily there is not add feature as projector to Framework laptop?
Thanks, is there away to add better cooling fan heat-pipe/vapor chamber, thermal paste diy?
This is perfect, I have a 1660 and really want the amd version of the framework when it comes out.
AMD dosen't support Thunderbolt at all so you can't use an eGPU with a Ryzen laptop.
@@ElevatedSystems oh yea, thanks for the reminder. I guess my 1660 is safe in my gaming pc for now.
@@ElevatedSystems do you think it could run over USB 4, since it's basically thunderbolt? I know that USB 4 works on Ryzen
@@dhruvkansara USB 4 is open source, so it could work on future AMD processors but so far none support it
It depends, USB4 has the bandwidth but doesn't always have PCIe tunneling which would not allow for eGPU support.
I'd like to see what the performance hit is with daisy chaining, eg. Laptop -> TB3 dock -> eGPU. This way you get to connect the laptop to ethernet, USB, etc. with just one cable.
Not a big performance hit as TB has dedicated USB lanes. Best bet is to get a eGPU with an integrated Hub like the Razor Core X Chroma.
Ok that's it's I'm convinced, I'm buying framework for my next laptop as soon as it's available in my region. I already have a 2060 egpu. I do gaming and productivity. SOLIDWORKS and my steam library lol.
Thank for your for you coverage my man, reall helpful.
Not sure if anyone said it already but you should increase the size of the font on the Benchmarks next time, they are unreadable on a small screen.
16:15 Can someone elaborate on why F1 2020 gets worse?
CPU bottleneck. I explained it pretty thoroughly. The CPU can't keep up with the external GPU.
@@ElevatedSystems Well, I got that. But if the GPU only takes, idk, 1ms to render an image on low graphics, at 60 fps it will idle more than on high graphics with 2ms per image. So how would higher graphics settings make the CPU faster?
@@mr.norris3840 The CPU is rendering at the same speed but since the GPU framerates have slowed down its not having to wait on the CPU to deliver its part of the frame. Therefore higher 1% lows. Look at any resolution scaling benchmark. As you go from 1080p to 4k on the same system, same game, the gap between Avg fps and 1% low fps gets smaller.
Great video. Would love to see how it goes with the AMD variant.
Very good video 😱 thanks for sharing!
Can't wait to see Framework have a Ryzen option
Wish granted!
You have a new subscriber sir!
Something I've been wondering about eGPUs
Say I plug in an External RTX 3090 Ti to my laptop. Can I then use that graphics card to play RTX capable games that otherwise would not work with RTX enabled on said laptop?
Yes RTX would work. However, there are very few laptops that would warrant a 3090 as you would be leaving about $2000 worth of performance on the table. If you can afford a 3090 you can probably afford to build an entire gaming PC.
@@ElevatedSystems I was expecting to be ignored. I am pleasantly surprised how fast I got a response from anyone. Thanks. :)
So egpu on the framework still leads to performance losses?
its just me and my 1060 til the end of days by the looks of it.
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. The 10 extra minutes to render video or 20 FPS will change nothing at the end of the day. You’ll still do the same jobs and make the same money.
@@markm0000 i got a fancy 4k gsync tv "wasted" on my hdmi 1.4 1060 tho... truly the most first world of problems :)
Great test, love that Laptop!
3:54 yes we would haha
the new gaming framework is going to be sick
Can you do machine learning in Linux with egpu? I have not seen any Linux running baremetal on a framework laptop.
I might convert my main setup to a Framework laptop dock. I don't game that hard and Blender isn't that much of a pain in my ass.
....well i might consider making this my daily gaming device, i already have a rtx 3060 and a egpu enclosure, only thing i'd need is a usb c hud for a keyboard and mouse and probably more storage
When you have charts can you please make the text bigger so I can see it on my phone?
10:00 that it's thanks to the development of the software that is single threaded. Similar to a CPU, GPU has cores for multi-thread process and that's the magic of the GPU, to have a crap ton of tiny cores and memory bandwidth to compute repetitive calculations. A CPU, in contrast, has strong cores capable of multiple tasks simultaneously.
The comparison I always use with my students is to imagine 30 persons trying to tier-down one wall of the school using hammers: it's gonna be hard, but fun and fast because we have a lot of people. That's how GPU works: same task to every core. Now imagine to give an axe to Arnold Schwarzenegger in his youth to tier down a tree. That's can be easy for him but it could be the hardest task for 30 people with hammer (they are too many for a single tree, they need someone outside to coordinate them, it isn't fun...). The task it isn't build for the available manpower and tools. CPUs are strong workers that can do hard/complex task (single).
Finally! I was waiting for this
Great video, coulnd't care less about gaming performance as I'm interested on video editing.
I'm tempted to migrate to this setup, performance CPU with eGPU, but I'm not entirely convinced of the thunderbolt v4 limits, as I'm currently using a high end gaming laptop.
Great video, thanks for running and presenting all these benchmarks in such an easy to understand manner. Did you have any issue with plug-and-play between the Framework and Core X? I use Core X (with a 1060 6GB) with my Thinkpad X1 Carbon Gen7, and I usually have to restart the laptop for it to see the GPU if I previously disconnected it at least once. How's Framework in this regard?
As long as you click Disconnect in the tray it works fine.
"If I don't do a gaming benchmark, yall will crucify me"
Subscribed now XD
definitely curious on how the framework would handle as the streaming center of a two-pc setup or game console streaming machine with a capture card, or as something for a single PC learning/teaching style machine with the second display for coding, whiteboard, etc!
If you offload the igpu to the eGPU, and then route the eGPU displayport back to the framework laptop, would thunderbolt 3 benefit from the full downstream instead of sharing the up and down? Would the displayport allow the laptop screen to also go higher?
what are the thermals like when playing games? kind of trying to compare a gaming laptop to this to see if the thermals and sound levels would be better.
framework have recently been certified! All4 ports! It's the only laptop in the world with 4 thunderbolt certified ports!!!!!
The thermal problem when the lid is closed isn't a dealbreaker for me, but it's kind of disappointing to hear.
Heh I just disable the integrated GPU manually every time I plug in and leave the laptop open, doesn't even occur to me to close the laptop
We need to make sure it gets heard, but this device is a first for them - I'm willing to give a bit of leeway there. Lets see if they address it in future products - they seem to be willing to listen to customers.
Great video!
Would a Thunderbolt 4 e-GPU do better on those tests ? Not sure if the bottleneck would be resolved or not. Anyway I could not found any product of this kind. Thunderbolt4 is still too recent.
Repurposing the motherboard for a special project, even just for a one-off demo, sounds extremely exciting! 👌
I am interested if the integrated graphics can handle Splitgate. Does anyone know?
oh Microsoft please let us make the taskbar smaller like before...its a pain in small laptop screens. win 11 taskbar eats so much vertical space.
What's the spec of the laptop?
cool video, subbed
You said you had a 4 core. Is that the I5? I'm a full stack web developer and am considering this for a more portable computer for freelancing than my HP Omen 15 from about 4 years ago. The HP Omen 15 is an I7 but also a quad core. I'm pretty sure the I5 version of the framework would still be a performance improvement for coding and not a boat anchor in weight. I run Pop Os linux if that factors into your advice.
It's the I7-1165G7 which is a 4 core 8 thread part with a 96 EU iGPU. The I5-1135G7 is also 4C/8T but with a 500MHz reduced Freq and a cut down 80 EU iGPU.
@@ElevatedSystems Thanks for the reply! I'm also looking at the Acer Swift 3 in the 16gb config. It would probably be better for compiling code but everything is soldered. I think I want to do the Framework even if it's less ideal, for that reason.
Which framework cpu model did you test with? 35/65/85? I might have just missed it.
The 65. I probably didn't mention it in this one. I forget that most ppl most likely haven't seen my previous videos.
Does framework laptop work when you put out battery and plug it only to socket, while still using egpu?
Yes
Can you do a brief version of this test suite on Linux? With the litany of arbitrary restrictions Microsoft is imposing on Windows 11, I suspect a non-insignificant number of users will be pushed over to Linux (lol, me). I'm mostly just concerned with compatibility and driver support - if it picks up and can run games, I will be more than satisfied.
*NOW* I am interested!
hey elevated systems can the e gpu dock power/charge the laptop ?
Yes.
im getting zero help with this on their discord, can you use a egpu with the AMD framework 13? I have a spare 1660. EGPU cases seem expensive too. Any recomdations? My FW 13 comes q4 2023
You're getting zero help because the AMD FW 13 hasn't been released yet. Technically an egpu should work on it's USB4 but we won't know for sure until it can be tested.
@@ElevatedSystems ah I see 4 batches sold out. That makes me think they sold out and shipped already
@@DivisionRc Nope, I'm in Batch one and it hasn't shipped yet.
@@ElevatedSystems dayyym. I’m batch 5. Hope shipping estimate is accurate. Can’t wait for it, but I can wait for that to come out of my bank 😂
Hot dog! I now am starting to form a plan for buying a newer laptop.
I never thought I'd see an eGPU with a 1660 in it.
If GPUs were more available at reasonable prices I would have gone with a RTX 2060 Super.
Watching this after watching the Framework dock video
Wait so can you technically connect and use 4 external GPUs at the same time on this laptop?
I don't think there are enough available PCIe lanes to do that. It's more about having the flexibility to use whichever port is most convenient.
Ok, now I can buy the laptop without worry.
Does anyone know if the highest end CPU that they offer is worth getting over the cheaper one?
No it's not.
@@ElevatedSystems thanks for answering! In that case is it still worth getting the i7 over the i5?
@@ElevatedSystems Are you saying getting i7 1185G7 over i7 1165 or i5 isn't worth it because... not enough performance improvement compared to price increase, actually better performance on i5, or some other reason?
I want to edit videos for TH-cam and similar, video streaming with 2 cameras, do web programming not involving compiling, non-3D graphics, and regular business and personal use. Was considering i7 with 64GB RAM, and 2-4TB SSD, instead of using a desktop or GPU. Are there processor/motherboard issues that would make the extra RAM or SSD not help that I am overlooking?
for me the laptop aspect ratio is unfortunate, because l use laptops for media consumption and gaming.
I got a rx 570 lying around would that work
If you also have an eGPU enclosure lying around it should work, but FYI, I just picked up that Razor Core X on eBay for $130 a few weeks ago.
This video made me sad. Not because of your review. That was great! 👍 Keep the content coming! It made me sad when you mentioned the GPU prices currently here are most likely to stay 😢