Please electronic hobbyists... start using FPGA's!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ธ.ค. 2014
- This video will explain why FPGA's are great to build your projects on!
Link to the EBook
forum.gadgetfactory.net/index....
Link to the free software (you must register)
www.xilinx.com/products/design... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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The major problem is - you NEED a project which is perfect for FPGAs ... Such projects are normally advanced level and no Arduino Guy will ever think about projects for which a FPGA is perfect.
There just aren't enough hobbyist-friendly tutorials out there. All tutorials i can find are either about basic topics like blinking LEDs or they are way too advanced for beginners.
Buy an online course, mine was like 10$ an teached me the basics of vhdl on fpgas.
I have started using them. However man, so few open source tools. FPGA platforms need an Arduino-like effect.
Where did you buy FPGA please? We specialize in ALTERA XILINX. Ask for details. Email: pagebo@163.com Skype: Pagebo2000
"This video will explain why FPGA's are great to build your projects on!" This video barely explained why FPGA's are great to build on at all.
Why use FPGA? You use an FPGA basically anywhere where you would prefer to have a dedicated hardware chip but it isn't worth the money to get a chip fabbed because you aren't going to mass-produce 10,000+ chips. If you aren't going to be producing enough chips to make it worthwhile then here are the reasons to get an FPGA:
1) You need precise control of timing signals on a clock by clock basis. Often this is necessary when you interconnect one hardware system with another hardware system and they have different interfaces.
2) You have a particular algorithm that runs slow on general processors but can be implemented directly as a hardware circuit and be sped up
3) You are an IP designer and need to test your design in some sort of hardware before you actually send it off to silicon layout guys to map it directly to silicon.
4) You are just curious what it's like to design logic for an FPGA and what it's like to design logic using an HDL
Why NOT use FPGA?
1) If you don't qualify for any of the above. If you use it for basically anything else it will be overpriced and/or will take a lot of your time since you're going to need to learn about logic design and how to implement a design using an HDL.
serimpala pretalia I dunno... that bit about replicating a Super Nintendo Entertinment System was made before VeriSNES, the Super Nt, it that new project that was just ported to the DE10 Nano MiSTer project were known. Some old systems are simply too obsolete to reproduce with custom silicon and replicating it on a logic level on an FPGA makes a lot more sense, but when you realize that the FPGA can literally reconfigure itself to replicate multiple different systems (the “F” in Field Programmable Gate Array ;)) you see that it has something a custom chip can never offer: Flexibility. This flexibility enables entirely new products, like a game cartridge that can replicate the custom hardware inside every game ever made for the platform (SD2SNES just reached this milestone for NA/EU/AU games) or an FPGA NES that can become a Master System, Atari VCS, ColecoVision, etc (Analogue Nt Mini) or an internal HDMI modification for an original real NES that replicates a video chip to get digital video and then replicates the various audio hardware included inside various games to get digital audio. It reconfigures itself to replicate the target hardware as the user needs it, which an obsolete chip replicated on custom silicon simply cannot do.
Thank you
well a lot of stuff hobbyists do on a micro would work better on an FPGA - just some simple process state machine that turns some pins on and off is the crux of most of them
I know this late but i think one of the exciting about FPGAs the potential use for having them for machine learning
You get a lot of value for your money with microcontrollers these days. The problem with FPGAs is that you run out of resources very quickly on the small end and you run out of money very quickly on the high end and there aren't really any product offerings in-between.
Wanna go crazy? Try programming microcontroller (Year 2004 before Arduino was made)
Wanna go crazy? Try programming FPGA (Year 2018)
The biggest problem with FPGAs *AT*PRESENT* is that they are closed and proprietary.
The ICE40 have been "reverse engineered" with open source applications being available (like the FOMU and ICE breaker coming)
What made the Arduino "feasible" for hobbyists? OPensource compilers/loaders/etc. :)
avr-gcc and avrdude came before arduino I think. I still prefer them to Noobuino
@@nxxxxzn Still, the Arduino is just a "wrapper" around those opensource compilers/loaders/etc., and that is the reason the arduino is amateur/hobbyist friendly, we need the same level(s) off opensource and FPGA manufacturer support ...
FPGA's have been around forever...just like microcontrollers.
I said in some other post I avoid any chip whatsoever I can't use or program at ease by myself without some devious licensing scheme/racket or vendor-supplied-only software in between. To anyone thinking of using these FPGAs: Read the fine print carefully and BE WARNED. I detest middlemen.
Those FPGA chips are magic, now (depending on the power of it)you can replicate any type of processor such as the Z80,6502 or 68000 chip etc,,,
So now you can replace damaged cpu chips from old pc's with it.
I have the background in electronics and digital electronics to understand enough to use an fpga. I never used them yet. Anyone can master the requirements to work with fpgas they are not complicated. The skill engineers battle with is producing bug-free cores, or to 100% acurately replicate an older cpu such as 6502 together with its oddities. But you can always work yourself into that level
So someone fill me in on this: You can program the FPGA chip on the FPGA board with hardware description language VHDL. By doing so you can create any hardware component you want including Arduino or SNES - BUT its on the FPGA board. So if I wanted to then export that programing code and create my own SNES, I can? Or would I have to also do PCB design to accommodate the blank chip I would need to buy to take that FPGA code?
So in other words - can I use FPGAs to design my own technology and then export it to its own dedicated circuit boards, etc to use as stand alone devices?
One reason to build an FPGA that doesn't get mentioned, oddly, is to implement encryption in hardware (for performance) such that there is no back door to exploit - the fear these days of running encryption on general, off-the-shelf CPUs is that they will mostly likely have backdoor access built-in so as to enable intelligence agencies to bypass any encryption algorithms.
I agree with you. But you should have mentioned the main benefits of using fpgas
But, can i do a Wavetable synth with changeable wavetables on those?
Dont get me wrong FPGA's are great but theres a time and a place for it. Maybe once there are more simplified compilers/languages for FPGAs then hobbyists will look to them. Hardware code is very different from the usual languages used in microcontrollers. .
Thanks for your comment! Try to read the eBook. You will see that basic programming on a FPGA chip is not that difficult at all. Ofcourse, it depends on the programming skills of the user. But I advise all experienced Arduino programmers to check it out!
***** I've looked into the book before along with Free Range VHDL. Also not all people use Arduino lol. Either way I cant wait to see you next couple of videos.
@@mjfpieters id advise arduino programmers to program microcontrollers without arduino ide.
Looking to for Linux USB 3.0 API, to use Papilio for a data acquisition and to write output values to robot motors, at
the same time.
Looking forward to the follow-up videos. I have playing around with FPGA's on my future todo list. One of my big barriers for use in projects is cost. Yes, the dev boards are much, much, much less expensive now than when they first caught my eye but they're still quite a bit more than making your own Arduino based project.
With Arduino, you can prototype with a dev board and then build a finished project with a chip costing less than $5. I may be wrong, but I don't think it's this easy to move from a dev board prototype to a project with the FPGA integrated into the design without the dev board.
A couple ideas for follow-up videos:
1) Expand on the pros/cons of the Xilinx vs Altera choice. You mentioned you recommend Xilinx/Papilio but didn't really go into why. It'd be interesting to know the strengths and weaknesses of each system.
2) Talk about how to move from using a dev board in a prototype to a finished project without the dev board.
Thanks for you comment. VHDL and Verilog are universal hardware description languages (HDL). This is the way the professional chip-designers code, design and simulate (using testbenches in HDL) their products. This means that you can send your VHDL or Verilog files to a chip-manufacturer, and they will be able to contruct a full custom-designed chip for you (an ASIC). However, this is a very expensive process to do. The cheaper way to do this is to put your compiled code on a FLASH memory on your PCB together with a FPGA. This will load your compiled HDL code on your FPGA every time you switch it on. Maybe you can come up with a PCB design yourself! However, the Papillio boards do exactly the same thing, with some extra's of course. (USB etc).
Good luck!
Thanks for additional info.
I'd really like to believe you. I can get an Arduino Uno in the $20-30 price range to use as a development board. I can integrate an Atmel chip into a permanent project in the $1-2 range. Please, point me to an FPGA system that's at a similar price point. I'd love to play around with them but have failed to find anything near that cost.
Thanks, I appreciate the reference. I hadn't run across that one in my searching around. The least I'd found anything for was $100 and most were several times that. Cheers.
Awesome! Thanks for the additional references.
Hey,
You make really good videos.
I need your help right now. I'm totally new to all these and soon I will be doing a project (academic) on this FPGAs. Firstly, I don't know which board to choose. So, can you suggest me which FPGA development board will be perfect or atleast adequate for implementing image processing algorithms on it? I require a board that can smoothly perform image processing operations.
FPGAs are out of the reach of most hobbyists. They are extremely complex, require multiple voltages, have very dense pin counts on tiny packages and require special, and sometimes expensive, development tools and software. These are not microcontrollers. Heck, you can make a complete CPU/GPU out of the bigger FPGAs!
I plan on buying an FPGA prototyping board soon, but actually using one in a project is a LONG way off and I've been an electronics hobbyist for decades.
I agree (partly!)... I did a FPGA board layout two weeks ago with current Altera Cyclone 10 and yes it is more demanding than just doing a pcb design with e.g. a STM32 ... And you would have to use at least 4 layers - otherwise routing power supply (1.2V, 3.3V and 2.5V) can't be done clean ... Buuuut have a look at Lattice MachXO2/3 ... They need single supply and have flash embedded ... It's a lot easier to use them :) Unfortunately I don't have enough experience to compare the number of logic gates with Xilinx or Altera ...
Bro i imidiatly subscribed, ur a hero, please keep it up what you do ❤️
Is there any possibility for simulating FPGA like we do in Proteus ?
Suddenly want to buy an FPGA :)
What's that chorus video? :D
We specialize in FPGA. ALTERA Xilinx. Email: pagebo@163.com thanks.
What's the expressive choir at the end?
How much does it cost to get started?
is it me or the cap next to U7 at 1:07 haves an open ? :O
Thank You.
Hello I have question. Trying to gain some experience with FPGA at home for hobby and also make myself more viable as a recent college grad for hire. Which FPGA is the better route if I wish to be involved in the defense industry? Or does it not matter? I hear VHDL is higher in demand across all industries but I am not sure.
Looking forward to a reply thanks!
vhdl is definitely the go , i play with altera cyclone fpga and so far its been good also as the video suggests the cyclone and the spartan are the best and the same code in vhdl will run on both (needs some minor changes in the input and output pins ) i think any one will do for a starter than you can optimize for a single one of them ........
fouzai alaa thanks for your input! I will definitely take save up to get one of the two. Good to see that theres some cross compatibility. The IO pin modification to the code is to be expected but isnt that for all devices like microcontrollers and FPGAs all together? Or do some of the FPGAs in other brands use their own libraries making the need to recode an entire existing project on a certain device?
no the major types of fpga's are even xilinx or altera so its hard to find any other fpga's ,also the vhdl is kind of a unified language so you wont need a major modification to the core of the program the libraries also consists of logic components like nand nor not and alu multiplexers ......... you just implement them or make your own your code will run on any fpga's with slight changement it sound limited but there is some advanced modes that even the latest intel processeurs cant do !!!
Lattice is the third known FPGA manufacturer ... They have some nice FPGAs with lots of resources but only need 1 single power supply and have flash embedded. But I can't compare them directly to Xilinx or Altera because I haven't used them (yet). My Favourite is altera because stone-aged-hardware like Altera DE1 runs without any additional driver (for programming) on current Linux and some older hardware I've from Xilinx is very problematic. So Altera for the win (in my case^^)
Using FPGA is problematic for many of us because it require not just programming skills but you need to know the basic of digital design like what is logic gate, flip flops and so on. Moreover, if it not APSOC then you need to develop your own IP from zero if you want to communicate or display or you have to find one from open source or buy from 3rd party. All these are already present on microcontroller, speed is not an issue for many hobbyist or lower to medium speed projects as ARM based system are all there and cost effective. FPGA has niche where you want high speed or parallel processing or both and when you are developing some custom processing units.
Nitin Kumar FPGAs are also great for low latency
It's a very useful video, thanks for sharing! If I can give you a few words of constructive criticism: the background music is a bit too loud for me. Especially when Yello started playing I couldn't follow what you were saying any more. Don't get me wrong - I love Yello and background music, just turn it down a bit. I hope you don't mind my criticism.
Thanks for your feedback!
I was allready a bit worried about that.
This also created a video to teach me a little bit , step by step
And what exactly is worth doing on a FPGA other than to learn computer engineering? How is it useful for real projects and prototyping that is more results focused?
One example is doing your own measurement devices where you need 100 MSps or more. So where data amount is greater that CPU/MCU can handle. Other example is detecting objects from many realtime video streams.
Hmm interesting, its quite interesting just learning about the applications and pros and cons of different technologies. I wonder if you can implement OpenCV algorithms on it, I will consult google.
The FPGA can be used for a raster/signal coprocessor project, where high multidata performance is needed. The GPU and DSP exist for reasons.
May I know where to begin? I know digital design and have some idea about FPGA. I read lots of articles in the internet,but don't know where to begin. Any idea?
The problem with FPGA's is that there is not a big community that can help when you have a idea/problem. The only SBC with a FPGA with a big community i've seen are UP boards (and UP^). The problem here is that the FPGA cannot be accessed, but they are working on it. The only useful link about programming a FPGA i found is : hamsterworks.co.nz/mediawiki/index.php/FPGA_Projects
I suggest to buy a development board in lesser price.. And give it a try.. Other issues if faced... Ahh u will be than in auto pilot mode
What program language/program can i use for virtex-5
Virtex 5? So advanced item. What do you do on this? Skype:pagebo2000 for communicating.
Tell this dude mcu's is the king and it's getting cheaper and cheaper, stm32 arm mcu board cost's 2$ today..
Yes, but actually no.
By that statement you still don't know what fpgas are used for, do you?
Im designing a pcb to XC3S1500-4FG676C an its not easy , also you need a platform flash XCF08PVOG48C 48-TSOP Its expensieve and comes in BGA .
Are they equipped together? Skype:pagebo2000 for communication
Nice Ideas, ... but do You know how much does it costs the hardware from the dinigroup, or the complete software for XILINX in order to get good results and work without frustration and profitable ? I am afraid only millionaires and billionaires can afford to have such a nice hobby :-(((.
Only fools, I would say.
1:04...provided that the FPGA has enough of the right gates to do it, yes...?
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Arduino MKR Vidor 4000 is a good place to start.
Design first all the complex digital logic that has more than a couple TTL chips lets say 500 and up or have the all knowledge to work in a modern commercial product having the background of a support team to design the most advanced printed circuit board plus supporting a bunch of logic analyzers and digital oscilloscopes that cost nearly the price of your house.And if somewhere find difficulties the vendor of the fpga happily will send few technicians to help you to finish the project if you work in some large famous company.Otherwise the hobbyist will happy if manage to make the fpga to light up some leds in the knight's rider light pattern.
Xilinx X Altera
Now, Altera is Intel.
Which one is the best choice?
I like Altera more ... Both can do the same but I have an ooold Altera DE1 board which still works flawless under linux (without having to install unsupported driver) although it is sooo old ... I also have some older Xilinx hardware but I didn't managed to get them running again ... So my oppinion is, Altera is better xD
Lattice
any is good. I did my project in same time with many of them, and in the same time I learn features from iCE40 which was slightly different that Xilinx and intel. however, in the end my project was done on all 3 FPGAs and I am happy to have that experience.
You missed out Lattice iCE40 series!
Seriously though, making an FPGA work is nothing like getting code for a processor working. With a processor you can debug each line, with an FPGA if, it doesn't work, your screwed - so you have to spend a long time _verifying_ your design.
You need to create testbench forverifying your design. Intel and Xilinx have simulators included in lite versions. Im not sure if onchip signal probes was also in lite versions. These signal probes are very good if you need debug something in lab.
The New Vampire V4 Standalone is a totally new Amiga with an FPGA that runs a 68080 core... it is out now, shorturl.at/cdpyM which is pretty awesome. FPGA is a programmable CPU. Resurrects brilliant computer platforms. Vampire FPGA cards are also available for Classic Amiga also.
Finish watching this video and I still don't know why I should start using FPGA?
I'd wouldn't recommend the spartan fpga or the papillio board. They use the older ISE software. Get a board that uses a series 7 fpga from Xilinx. I've tried boards from both Altera and Xilinx and found that I prefer Altera's chips.
The low end Altera boards also seem to be slightly cheaper than the Xilinx ones. USB blasters, too, if you go that direction.
I still do new projects on a stone-age-old Altera DE1 and it works still fine ... :) I avoided Vivado - still working on the free webpack with Cyclone 2 and new webpack with Cyclone 10.
Yes correct - and the old embedded Altera usb blasters still work flawlessly with current Linux :)
I like the music XD, this is my kinda guy XD
That intro... DA DA DA
If you apply for a job in the Audio / Video / Car industry and you mention that you know how to program a FPGA the chance is big that you will have the job. Knowing Raspberry Pi and Arduino is a good start, but FPGA is really the next step.
Most people don't "ascend" to FPGAs because they even can't think of projects where FPGAs are of real advantage.
@@punpck oh boy
@@crateer oh reading my comment one year later, I think it sounded more negative than it was thought it should - sorry for that. I only wanted to say that Arduino users mostly are at beginner level and it needs quite some experience to recognize where FPGAs have advantage and where not.
Fucking Tried every way to search the end music but couldn't find it, can u please tell me the BG Music Name please pretty please, I love this video!
My HDD crashed, so I had to search for the lyrics in combination with "Gay mens choir". Then I found it again! th-cam.com/video/e95tdiSvatk/w-d-xo.html
Thank you very much! I was so anoyyed that even shazam couldn't find this song, but u did, u are better than shazam searching for music
+iGamerXD Now I'm really curious why you wanted to know the song so much ;)
Because i liked the music and my brain wanted to hear it, or it was going to go on rampage mode, but you contained the my deadly rampage before happening, you are this youtube comment section new hero
hahhaha! Thanks for that song, that group(chrorus is great) listening to them while i am writing.
It's too bad FPGAs don't come in a super tiny package. I'd like to reverse engineer chips like the super FX and the Sega SVP to make repros with.
Casio VL-1
Den FPGA kom in handy :P gotta work on your English sorry.. Besides that great video! I would recommend Altera btw!
Arm is the future
And after ARM, Risc-V is the future
What you reccomennd bro... Altera is taking over the market now... And the software is far more user freindly than your xilinx.
This guy sounds like idubbz
You failed to mention Lattice FPGAs. They will have exactly the needs for a hobbyist and beyond for a fraction of the cost. Save yourself power and money.
Dude, I disagree.
You need to start with FPGA when you think you need FPGA for some project. If you doesn't need an FPGA you doesn't need to use it.
nah i think what he means is if you want to develop you should start using fpga, because arduino and other ucontrollers can only do so much
I disagree to you. Working with them can extend your horizon, making you think about things you couldnt have imagined before
FPGA great for dedicated stuff, VGA controllers, memory controls even DMA controllers... but sometimes you just need the Ease of a PIC / AVR if you simply need to turn things on and off... i love the PIC LOADS but i do use FPGA for fun. they're too expensive to just be used for ONE thing (for now)
You just predict the future, now 2018 there is a snes console out of fpga
Agreed.....but time and things are changing....u need performance, u will require dedicated harware....and there FPGA comes.......plus u will set free from limitations........
The male choir, in this setting it's slightly disturbing, in a ventriloquist's dummy kind of way. Just saying.
0:51 What? No way.
I downloaded the ISE design tools for free a couple years ago, but now you have to have a verifiable company with phone and address. It's still free though.
Yes.
I've watched 2 separate hour long videos from people trying to explain what an FPGA is and why they're awesome.
Neither told me anything.
I learned that they run Low level code/logic. That's it. The coolest thing explained was some BS like running LED lights in a pattern.
I honestly still don't get why they're better than a SBC in literally any task that isn't commercial automation.
0:43 and ports, or ports...
fuck ports...
You should NEVER use a FPGA in your project unless you are really in need of it. Here are my reasons:
1) FPGAs are too expensive and will stay expensive for a long time.
2) FPGA development environment is too complex. You are prone to errors. You need to spend a lot of time reading documentations.
3) FPGA board design process require you to know a lot of advanced topics like "signal integrity". You need to work with LVDS signals. You need to do simulations using very expensive software. You are prone to a lot of errors.
4) Due to the 3rd reason, you can't work with cheap 2 or 4 layers PCBs. You have to pay a lot of money for PCB manufacturing for your impedance controlled traces.
5) FPGA world is under the monopoly of Xilinx company. This company is doing a terrible job. Its development environment is a mess. It is making the documentation intentionally hard to follow. Because, they are servicing very expensive courses to teach people their development environment. Unfortunately, they are scamming people in this legitimate way.
You forgot to mention their "licensing" racket.
FPGA are expensive asf & cheap board don't hv USB ports to program them so u need to buy an additional programmer so its not very economical for casual hobbyists . but I'm planning to buy one for HDMI output for a project
Learning and HDL is not enough, you are asking that makers become digital engineers. they can learn VHDL or VERILOG all they want but they have to learn how to design circuits using digital logic, they probably wont get passed basic things like adders and crap like that you find on every FPGA tutorial, now lets say they know how to make an adder...how the hell is that useful in a project? Most (not all) makers really just plug and play modules and copy libraries and really have no clue how to design a circuit from scratch or write the bare metal code, I would suggest they learn all of that first and then learn digital logic design and then FPGA! in that order.
You could find the sample fpga projects here with VHDL Source code here
www.pantechsolutions.net/fpga-projects
They are too expensive. You can buy a half dozen micro-controllers for the price of an FPGA.
Don't forget their "licensing" rackets either.
It’s more expensive now. Especially these several months,nearly all items are 5times price higher than before. I am selling FPGA over 10years. If interest welcome to ask for quote. Skype: pagebo2000
To your thumbnail i say ok then give us some fpga(s) for free and we will use em.
It's been 8 years, I still haven't touched a fpga, haven't needed to
FPGA tools are just a mess. HDLs are reminiscent of 60's era programming languages. The vendors are far more interested in locking people into their expensive ecosystem than selling chips or building a market.
Bang for Buck ARM is much cheaper the price of FPGA's needs to come down.
The 2 FPGA companies are no longer Altara & XilinX they are now Intel(Altera) & AMD(XilinX)
If you want an Example of FPGA vs ARM in the 1980's Yamaha release a Synthesizer the DX7
This has been cloned on both devices the FPGA on an $99 Digilat cmod A7-35T it runs 2 copies of the Synth the project is XFM2 on the ARM Side of things you have MiniDexed that runs 8 copies on a $35 Raspberry Pi.
Don't get me wrong if you want to build a CNC controller that keeps track glass scales & servo encoders on multiple access machines then FPGA is the way to go.
I actually disagree with you on one point. FPGA is still not the best for any application. FPGA can be very efficient at parallell programming But when it comes to serial tasks, FPGA cant give same effiency .In serial tasks , ARM architecture can beat FPGA so badly. The best choice is to use both and be familiar both.
non sence. any fpga is good. why not try an opensurce iCE40?
FPGA = poor mans custom silicon IC, man up roll your own IC send to silicon fab house save your self headache.
that's expensive as fuck
I've bought a Spartan VI some time ago, for about 35 US Dollars including delivery. That isn't really expensive in comparison to some other MCRs and the software to use it, is as mentioned free.
2 years later you still look like a fool
He's not a fool. Fools are those idiots falling for this racket.
Imagine saying fuck ive forgot something and killing yourself.