MSI Prestige X570 Creation Slots and Storage RAID Configuration
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2022
- MSI Prestige X570 Creation Motherboard. Today We're Answering another Subscriber Question about Slots and Storage. And this is going to be for the purpose of RAID. This is also going to be about what's Possible but also what's Practical. The first thing We're have to do is go through and sort out the Lanes. We're looking at CPU PCIe Lanes and Chipset PCIe Lanes. This Video is for the What, Why and How this all works as requested!
Slots and Storage Design vs Implementation
CPU PCIe Lanes
Chipset PCIe Lanes
Motherboard
CPU
Chipset
4 Pieces of Documentation
1. Motherboard Manual
2. Bios Manual
3. CPU
4. Chipset
Basic Configuration
1. 3 Slots; Dual X8/X8, X4
2. 2 M.2 NVMe PCIe
3. M.2 Xpander-Z PCIe 4.0 Dual Adapter
4. 10GbE LAN Marvell Aquantia AQC107
Supports PCIe 3.0 / PCIe 2.0 X4 Lanes
5. 6 SATA - 2 on ASMedia ASM1061
Contents
1. Motherboard Layout P28
Overview of Components
3 Slots & 2 M.2 Connectors
2. Motherboard Block Diagram P23
3. Specifications P16
4. PCIe Bandwidth Table P33
5. Expansion Slots P32
6. M2_1~2: M.2 Slots P35
PCIe Bandwidth
M.2 NVMe PCIe, M.2 SATA & SATA P17
7. Xpander-Z card PCI_E5 P38
7. ? Bios Bifurcation X8 to X4+X4 P63 ?
See Bios Manual below
8. Enabling RAID P79
RAID 0, 1, 10
9. Cannot create Disparate RAID only like kind!
10. SATA 6Gb/s Connectors P17, P39
11. 10Gbps USB-C aka USB 10Gbps P17
12. MSI AMDX570BIOS.pdf
- PCIe SlotX Lanes Configuration
MSI Xpander-Z
Links:
1 MSI Prestige X570 Creation - Motherboard
www.msi.com/Motherboard/PREST...
amzn.to/3DF2DBO
2 AMD Ryzen 7 5800X - Elite Gaming Desktop Processors - AMD
www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/a...
amzn.to/3QWA85z
3 X570 Motherboards - AMD
www.amd.com/en/chipsets/x570
4 AMD Ryzen 7 5800X review - PCI-Express 4.0 and the X570 Chipset
www.guru3d.com/articles-pages...
5 MSI AMDX570BIOS.pdf
download.msi.com/archive/mnu_e...
6. MSI Gaming GeForce RTX 3070 Ti 8GB GDRR6X 256-Bit HDMI/DP Nvlink Torx Fan 3 Ampere Architecture OC Graphics Card (RTX 3070 Ti Gaming X Trio 8G
amzn.to/3BuPfO1
7. SAMSUNG 970 EVO Plus SSD 500GB - M.2 NVMe Interface Internal Solid State Drive with V-NAND Technology (MZ-V7S500B/AM)
amzn.to/3R2wHdw
8. Gigabyte TRX40 Designare
amzn.to/3ShsPqc
9. ASUS Pro WS WRX80E-SAGE SE WIFI AMD Threadripper Pro EATX Workstation Motherboard
amzn.to/3Sm17c0
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4:50 the expansion card for two additional m.2 ssd drives will only have one ssd operational in the bottom x16 slot because the card uses 8 lanes and assigns the first four to the first ssd and the second four to the second ssd. If you put the card in the second slot the gpu will operate at pcie4 x8 which is roughly the bandwidth of pcie3 x16.
Regarding the pcie2 x1 slots. You can run pcie to m.2 pcie3 x1 cards in pcie2 x1 mode. It reduces the speed of the ssd but it’s faster then a drive and doesn’t eat into the sata ports. If you leave the m.2 drives on the board in pcie mode they will not eat into the ssd drives either. So effectively this board can run 6 sata iii 6GB/s drives, two pcie4 ssd drives and a further six m.2 ssds in expansion cards. Two of which sharing the gpu lanes will be full speed pcie4 x4 drives. If you don’t need that many ssd drives and want the gpu at pcie4 x16 do not use the second x16 slot at all.
Then there are two internal usb3 headers for four internal usb3 ports plus a usbc internal header. Then there are all the usb ports on the back of the board and a dual nic including a Intel 1Gbps and a third party 10Gbps network adapter.
For a mainstream board this board brings lot of connectivity to the table with only one real compromise the user can pick from. Although MSI did make concessions that users are stuck with. It has few super fast usb3 ports it has a staggering amount of 3.1 ports. This isn’t a huge deal. Transferring uncompressed UHD video is still very fast.
That said I would like to see a HEDT version with a few more lanes and quad channel to get the full experience but as mainstream boards go this is darn close.
Great video 👍 wish I had this video 2 years ago when I bought this board. I had a great lack of understanding of today’s topic covered today.
Hi Genrik Tived,
I'm honored! Glad We could shed light on an otherwise obfuscated subject! Understandable not knowing. You are not alone! Most do not. And now that You do, hard not to notice! That's why We do this! Our first realization was that Chipsets Rule. Then We saw the pattern of Resources based on Bifurcation. And that opened Our eyes! We learn by doing! And We've been doing this for some time! Appreciate Your Comments!
Every video we talk about quality parts. I was swapping one of my family's PCs to a new PC case this weekend and the PSU decided to go poof; smoke and everything.
I swapped the good stuff out to the new rig anyway, with name brand PSU, but none of the SATA ports would work; the PSU poof fried something. Everything else worked fine, RGB lights and all that, but the boot drive and the hard drives were not recognized in the bios.
What was supposed to be a two hour job turned out to be an all day job. I did not feel like flashing the bios and all that stuff, it just wasn't working. I took one of my M.2 add in cards that we discussed on the channel and popped it into the X16_2 slot and the bios picked it up right away.
However it would not boot from the add in card, so I popped it into the M.2 slot on the motherboard and it fired up. I reinstalled Windows etc. and the family member went on about her business. However, I've got to swap out the motherboard etc. Her new rig has quality name brand parts and I will never again buy another one of those "store brand" major parts ever again!
Luckily the motherboard is a top brand name and the staying power of that brand name is evident. The $20 I saved on the house brand PSU wasn't worth the trouble.
The other thing is that all the discussions we've had on this channel about M.2 SSD's and resource allocations really came in handy because I remember the whole discussion about chipset versus CPU resource lanes and now I can see them in action.
Hi Mike Quinton,
The best lessons learned are from experience! No more cheap Components! Not worth the hassle! Especially a PSU! Knowing those PCIe Lane allocations and seeing those in play helps You to know what's going on! Fascinating, right! Appreciate You Sharing those details! And still a Motherboard to replace! Bummer! Cheap is expensive! Did You have any Power fluctuations or brown outs? What's the warranty on that PSU? Not long enough!
My spouse really agree with you, great video. Good luck
Hi Maha Hazim,
Welcome! I'm honored! Appreciate Your Comments and Support! Good luck with Your Channel too!
Very nice review
Hi Thumbs Up,
Welcome! Just an Overview! Appreciate Your Comments!
You are awesome by the way. ❤
Hi Blueberry Apples,
I'm honored! Video Response today! Hope that helps! This Video explains the What, Why and How! Consumer Desktop Motherboards are more Complicated to configure due to Shared PCIe Resources! And that takes time to figure all of that out! Let's hope this Video will help other Viewers with those same Questions! Success on Your Build!
@@BuildOrBuy I made it to the premiere this time. And now that you look at it you can understand why I was confused and what connects where and if things are possible or not. Their documentation for this motherboard is fucking awful. I'm not going to use nice words because I hate it. EDIT: Also AMD doesn't publish PCIE lanes for the CPU either. So thank you for that. EDIT #2: Just some other information for you. I wanted to use a 5950X 16-core CPU on this system but some people doing a "AMD X570 VRM Guide" on Linus Tech Tips forums said it would be questionable to run that CPU on this motherboard. They claim I would have to run it at stock speed (no AMD PBO, no overclocking) and even that would make this board's VRM design run hot and they said the 5900X overclocked would be "on the edge" so I went with the 5800X as the other options seemed unsafe. What I have not yet done is email MSI for their input, I need to do that. EDIT: Also I'm not using SATA at all in this system. No optical drive (I use USB optical drives for that) and I use exclusively only a 2TB Sabrent Rocket 4 NVME drive for storage in this system. SATA will probably never be used in this system. And this video actually did help me a lot. I was considering 4 drives but I'll likely go with just 3 direct to the CPU instead. I'll write another message later after some preliminary testing.
Okay I've done some testing with this motherboard. I'm not entirely sure who was "Wrong" there. I don't think you were wrong. I think you are correct. But I think I will blame either MSI or AMD for providing you (and us) with inaccurate information. So here's the situation: If the onboard Aquantia 10-gigabit NIC port (through the PCH / chipset) used 4 PCIE lanes and also the 3rd PCIE-16x slot (4x electrically) also used 4 PCIE lanes and both went through the PCH / chipset and the chipset took 8 lanes from the CPU then in theory we should be able to use an NVME / PCIE drive in the 3rd PCIE slot in an adapter and still be able to use the 10-Gigabit NIC at full speed. Unfortunately that is not what happens. Here's my current configuration: 1 x Sabrent Rocket 4 NVME drive (2TB) on the primary M.2 port connected to the CPU. 1 x Samsung 950 Pro NVME drive in an adapter in that 3rd PCIE slot through the PCH. I tried pulling data from my NAS @ 10-Gigabit over the onboard 10-GiG NIC and writing to the two drives. If I write to the Sabrent drive on the CPU it writes at full speed 10-GiG (1.12 GB/s, 99% utilization on the 10-GiG port) and if I write to the 950 Pro through the chipset it drops to 600 MB/s. Which means that if I try to use the Aquantia 10-GiG NIC and a PCIE NVME drive in the 3rd PCIE slot at the same time this incurs a bottleneck. Which means that we do not actually get 8x PCIE lanes to the PCH chipset as you noted in this video. I don't know what we actually get but I suspect it may be only 4x to the PCH, on this motherboard. At the time of this test I was not using anything over USB (other than mouse and keyboard) and I was not using any SATA devices / I do not have any SATA devices connected to this system at all. It was only the Onboard 10-GiG port and the 3rd PCIE port being used. So based on this testing and what I know now it seems that if I want full speed usage from the 10-GiG NIC I will need to install NVME drives only in the primary M.2 port and/or optionally with the expander card in the second 8x port (which also goes to the CPU) and only use 3 of them.
Hi,
This is an absolutely fantastic breakdown of the complexity of Raid and the various lanes. I rarely see videos to this quality on TH-cam.
Id be really grateful if you could help me out with my query. In considering the video I do have one question.
I've got the MSI Prestige X570 Creation MB with an MSI RADEON RX 5700 XT GAMING X card, PCI 4.0x16 lanes. And three M2 NVME SSD sticks. Two of the exact same kind (WD_BLACK SN850X), which I just bought to set in a Raid, and the third older and slower one (Sabrent 1TB Rocket) to become a temp disk for my video rendering software (Davinci Resolve) (IE OS on C:drive Raid 0, and single stick D: for a temp. Then multiple Sata drives for storage, NAS for archiving)
I was surprised to see that only one of the M2 slots on the MB is connected to the CPU. Which I have missed, even though I read the manual, several times over the years. As you state, Its not a good solution to Raid 0 those two slots as the data will be piped through different pathways. But if I use the Expansion card, I reduce the lanes available to my graphics card from X16 to X8.
So what would your advice be in this situation?
1. Stay non-raid with two M2 sticks, one C: and one D: so my Graphics runs at 16X but I have a slower os (win 10) drive, or
2. Go ahead and use three M2 SSDs.. In which case, how would you raid them? I assume one MB M2 stick combined with the Expansion card M2 stick, and use the second MB M2 for the temp drive?
With many thanks in advance, John
Hi John,
Welcome! Appreciate Your Comments! Stick with Your 1st Solution! This is all about a Purpose Built Computer for Rendering! For that Purpose We use the Adobe Formula focused on 3 Numbers dealing with Quantity. Stated as...
The Adobe After Effects Multi Frame Rendering CPU Optimization Formula.
1. CPU Cores x 4 = RAM
2. CPU Core Count = VRAM
The GPU can do 80% of the Rendering. Stick with X16 Lanes. Your M.2 if PCIe 4.0 is capable of over 7,000MBs read and write. Focus on the Formula for Rendering. Your M.2 will not be the bottleneck. Only capacity will become an issue for the M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD Drive! Hope that helps! Keep Us Posted on Your Progress! Do a Render. Time it. Watch the Resources being used. Fascinating! Share Your Results!
I hope all is well, love channel. You videos have taught me much about the importance of dedicated and shared resources especially in regards to PCIE lanes.
I would be interested to understand more about the science behind how these lanes work, in reference to either speed and volume of data they can handle. When you talk about a 16 8 4 lanes does influence speed or purely volume of data, maybe both?
I don't really understand the difference between mechanical / electrical lanes?
Also as a side request, I have been looking for motherboards for the 12900k processor.
Looking for a workstation or High end desk variety. My application is mostly single threaded CAD software with the odd video rendering or TwinMotion Rendering of construction models. All the motherboards for the 12th Gen that are DDR5 compatible seem to be consumer grade type boards. Am I looking in the wrong place for workstation motherboards.
I see ASUS have ProArt Z690 but only in a DDR4 variant.
Could you explain the issue with DDR5 and 4 x DIMM slots and how dual or quad channel memory are choked / restricted by the processor memory controller. I am struggling to understand how this works or more so not work.
Sorry, more questions than a graduate journalist on their first day....
Thanks again, keep up the great work on the channel.
Hi Murray Niebling,
Welcome! I'm honored! Appreciate Your Comments and Questions! Lots of Questions! Lots of potential rabbit holes.
1. Let's start with PCIe Slots, Mechanical or Physical Size. The number of PCIe Lanes connected to a PCIe Slot may be fewer than the number supported by the Physical or Mechanical PCIe Slot size.
And PCIe Slot size does not determine PCIe Lanes. Although that's a starting point.
2. Intel i9 12900 CPU Specs
www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/134597/intel-core-i912900-processor-30m-cache-up-to-5-10-ghz/specifications.html
That's a Consumer Desktop CPU based on Resources. Beyond 16 CPU Cores, look at the PCI Express Configurations. And 20 CPU PCIe Lanes.
You're doing Single CPU Core Computations. OK. Are You going to want to ADD Storage? Everyone does, eventually. And will this CPU have enough CPU PCIe Lanes for that purpose?
3. We define and classify Motherboards according to Chipsets. Chipsets Rule!
A. Consumer Desktop Motherboards
B. HEDT X299, X399 and TRX40
C. Workstation WRX80 for PCIe 4.0
PCPartPicker is the easiest to use in searching for a Consumer Desktop Motherboard. Pick a CPU or Chipset or whatever and start searching. It's not perfect but a great start.
4. Defining by the Project, look at the Application Specs. Those will always be meager and usually minimal by technology standards but again a starting point.
Since We focus on Content Creation Rendering, We use the best Formula We've seen yet from Adobe. Even though We don't use Adobe software. The Adobe After Effects Multi Frame Rendering CPU Optimization Formula.
A. CPU Cores X 4 = RAM
B. CPU Core Count = VRAM
Your Comments about that Motherboard, maybe after the above, You may see that Motherboard and CPU differently.
5. DDR4 or DDR5... DDR5 is new and will require Bios Updates for compatability. This is more about PCIe 4.0 or PCIe 5.0. On Intel either one on a Consumer Desktop Motherboard is Dual Channel RAM. We've had 4 Channel RAM on HEDT and now 8 Channel RAM on Workstation. Another way to look at this, Your Data Models You create. Is 128GBs RAM enough? Do You require more RAM. See where Your limitations exist. Are those acceptable? Will 16 CPU Cores be adequate? Which Chipset allows for the most Upgrade potential?
For starters, hope that helps!
Hey Gill, Why is it some manufacturers are still putting 3.0 x 2 slots for NVME drives? Example the B560 Steel legend has 3 NVME slots. Top slot is 4.0 x 4, middle slot is 3.0 x 2 and the bottom slot is 3.0 x 4.
Hi JayzBeerz,
Just now seeing Your message! We did not receive a message from TH-cam notifications!
Very good point! Utterly useless. One maybe but. We need a 4 Lane Slot to make use of anything of significance! After all, like You've stated, 2 Lanes to an M.2 that requires 4 Lanes to run at full speed. Who wants half speed? Neutered!
Quick question? Can the MSI Prestige X570 Creation support thunderbolt via a TB Asrock card?
Hi KiloThaDawn,
Welcome! Great Question! A Thunderbolt 3 AIC. Doubtful.
1. No Thunderbolt multi pin Header connector.
2. No Bios support.
The only option would be Jumping Pins 3 to 5 on the ASRock Thunderbolt AIC. Expect only Partial support. Card might be seen by O/S. Don't expect anything Connected to be seen. Going forward, Thunderbolt support is Brand specific. We have several Videos about Thunderbolt 3 and 4. USB-C 20Gbps 2x2 is easier to implement. However if You need Thunderbolt, suggest getting a Motherboard with full Thunderbolt support. Those Bios settings are essential for Setting Thunderbolt up for Device Connectivity. For the price, this Motherboard should have Thunderbolt support! Hope that helps!
4:50 the expansion card for two additional m.2 ssd drives will only have one ssd operational in the bottom x16 slot because the card uses 8 lanes and assigns the first four to the first ssd and the second four to the second ssd. If you put the card in the second slot the gpu will operate at pcie4 x8 which is roughly the bandwidth of pcie3 x16.
Regarding the pcie2 x1 slots. You can run pcie to m.2 pcie3 x1 cards in pcie2 x1 mode. It reduces the speed of the ssd but it’s faster then a drive and doesn’t eat into the sata ports. If you leave the m.2 drives on the board in pcie mode they will not eat into the ssd drives either. So effectively this board can run 6 sata iii 6GB/s drives, two pcie4 ssd drives and a further six m.2 ssds in expansion cards. Two of which sharing the gpu lanes will be full speed pcie4 x4 drives. If you don’t need that many ssd drives and want the gpu at pcie4 x16 do not use the second x16 slot at all.
Then there are two internal usb3 headers for four internal usb3 ports plus a usbc internal header. Then there are all the usb ports on the back of the board and a dual nic including a Intel 1Gbps and a third party 10Gbps network adapter.
For a mainstream board this board brings lot of connectivity to the table with only one real compromise the user can pick from. Although MSI did make concessions that users are stuck with. It has few super fast usb3 ports it has a staggering amount of 3.1 ports. This isn’t a huge deal. Transferring uncompressed UHD video is still very fast.
That said I would like to see a HEDT version with a few more lanes and quad channel to get the full experience but as mainstream boards go this is very close.