Remote Lava Boost (RLB)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 เม.ย. 2017
- I explain all about the remote lava boost (RLB) and how we’ve tried (unsuccessfully) to use it to get past the pole 0x in BitFS to save that A press.
The remote lava boost is a technique where Mario can initiate a lava boost while being way above the lava. It had long been theorized, since there are other floor-related phenomena that can be experienced from way above the floor (e.g. steepness, quicksand death, water extinguishing burning). However, we weren’t able to experience a lava boost in this same way, and so we believed it to be impossible. But recently, I stumbled upon a comment from user “Ocarina of Masks”, who directed me to this twitch clip [ / 108070950 ] by twitch user SGib64. Comment for reference: • TTC The Pit and the Pe... . As soon as I saw the clip, I knew the trick had potential, and so I let others know. Soon after, many SM64 TASers and glitch exploiters were on the case, trying to replicate, dissect, and utilize the remote lava boost. In particular, Peter Fedak, Tyler Kehne, and Dane Bouchie all played important roles in determining how the remote lava boost works and why, namely by looking into the game's code.
To do a remote lava boost, Mario must be:
(1) already in a lava boost state
(2) currently above lava
(3) about to enter a pedro spot, i.e. a floor with a ceiling slightly above it
Pedro spots have interesting properties, since the floor hitbox allows Mario to land, but then the ceiling hitbox attempts to cancel this landing. This results in a sort of "partial landing" that has unintended effects. If one attempts to enter a pedro spot from midair, Mario will simply remain in midair - he doesn't fall down (since the floor keeps him up) and he doesn't land (since the ceiling prevents him from moving laterally). In this case, we attempt to enter a pedro spot while in a lava boost state and above lava. From the game's point of view, Mario both landed and is above lava, hence triggering a lava boost without actually touching the lava. Also, the reason why Mario needs to already be in a lava boost state for the remote lava boost is because if Mario's NOT in a lava boost state, then he uses a different parent collision function.
Unfortunately, this technique doesn't seem to allow us to get past the pole 0x, which all of us had been hoping for. Tyler determined that we need a 2+ unit gap between the floor and the ceiling for it to work, thereby concluding that the hypothetical pedro spot on the edge of the seesaw platform should not be able to exist. And Dane implemented an automated brute force tester to test having Mario move into the edge of the seesaw platform with varying conditions in order to check for pedro spots. Thus, this seems to be just another dead end.
Additional Notes
(1) Thanks to 1ted59 for making me aware of the remote quicksand death. Thanks to Tyler Kehne for making me aware of the remote ability to have water extinguish burning.
(2) This experience is a testament to just how capable the SM64 community is of figuring out how glitches work, so long as the glitches can be replicated. Indeed, as soon as we have a glitch in recorded inputs that we can play back, we can dissect the game's code to determine exactly what causes it. This is in stark contrast to the TTC upwarp, for which we have no replications available, and thus nothing to go on to figure out how it works. - เกม
I hate it when i'm on the edge of a pyramid and i accidentally start falling into quickbrick and start suffocating
quickbrick xd
oh frick its a sick quickbrick
Kevin vs. Gamingz ikr, i kicked a fly guy and that frickin frick pushed me into a quick brick, even tho i picked his coin that dick still kills me.
lithium 1817
Why do they even add quickbrick to the pyramid?
Try to enter Bob-Omb Battlefield in Unfair Mario 64
Forget about Bowser, the final boss is that freakin' pole.
NIMPAK1 aaaand all the other a presses
FofoLP I think this is the last remaining A press for an any% run.
axlkller there are things like tick tick clock though...
CreeperLord2020 CL20 It's an any% run, you can skip it if you collect the remaining stars somewhere else :P
If that's the final boss, ttc is the super secret ultimate final hardcore boss
I see a new Pannen video in my sub feed.
I see BitFS in the thumbnail.
I see a newly discovered technique that can launch you upwards.
I see Pannen launch himself above the pole with hacks.
I see light.
I see the word 'unfortunately'.
I see darkness.
Hello Darkness, my old friend....
Much like the nightmares of Pannen, "darkness" has only one A left.
Mario's slowdown voice while being lava boosted will haunt my dreams
I feel the opposite, the slowdown of mario ending his screams at the very end has me laughing nonstop.
I just like hear it
Jaime Ellison AH AH AH AH AAAHHHHH
That's bowser laughing...
Bowser's laugh sped up 10 times is even worse...
*SO CLOSE. WE'RE ALMOST THERE.*
You are the one who made that 4k video on SMG!
Cool
*I CAN ALMOST TASTE IT*
*Patrick licks sponge-shaped ice pop*
we are literally 1 unit away.
I want my happy ending
Tyler Kehne We all do. :(
Tyler Kehne Thbt wbs two *A* presses.
Tyler Kehne you guys will find it, im sure! it's so tantalizingly close, this has gotta be the way forward!
Tyler Kehne Hey man, this video left me with a burning question. Can the Pedro spot not be used to build speed to get up? I figure not, but I couldn't find a video where pannen explains why.
And besides, in TTC he jumps to get out of the Pedro spot and gain height. That uses an A press, which defeats the purpose.
I _felt_ that Bowser laughing this time. God Damn it.
0:29
2:42
1:24
"and how we’ve tried"
WAIT DOES THIS MEAN
"(unsuccessfully)"
GOD DAMMIT
No hope allowed. Only despair awaits.
Now to keep trying until we get RLB working or we find something else!
Poor Pannen is going to reach ultimate despair if he doesn't figure this out soon...
BRUTE FORCE STILL IN ANALYSIS
I love how commenters on this channel are genuinely excited for an A-less any% run.
@@want-diversecontent3887 Twice? Oh boy, a lot more than twice happened since 4 years ago. The entirety of decomp, an entire new TAS tool that transcends time itself, multiple bruteforcers, studying the behavior of the bully, tilting platform, track platform, and squish cancel, and so on. You'll have to tell me which two.
Is this what CERN scientists felt like trying to find the Higgs boson?
yeah definately
Over 20 Years later, and there's *still* new things to be found out about this game.
Callum Sparrow Soon they'll discover a rainbow coin that many people swore the collected
Did you unlock Luigi with it?
Lol, what if they found out Luigi was in the game somewhere. I think the internet would explode.
If you set a variable to 1 by jumping into a pole during a lava boost after diving with the wrong pitch, you unlock a broken, animation-less Luigi
@@shadowdsfire Well it happened sort of...
You can do it pancake man.
thats what i named my pichu in pokemon moon.
He's a big guy.
This is his second channel - panacke man.
Dagoth Ur UUUU
Willian i believe in you, 5 years old pancake man
>seeing the title
Ya-HOO! We have overcome the pole!
>reading description
Nooooo... ᶰᵒᵒᵒ⋅⋅⋅
when you find something that's shown in a pannenkoek video FeelsGoodMan
wait no I showed him the quicksand death fuck I'm bad at this
1ted59 but STILL
1ted59 ik right. I found one thing that Pannen featured. Useless but it's still cool
This is just a trailer of an epic movie where we finally save this A press, right? It has all the hardships and drama, and a goal. I'm ready.
0:37 I remember that happening to me a few times back in 2002. I had only 3 hp left and I got burned by the enemy. Before I died, the flame extinguished when I ran on the edge. I was shocked for a few seconds but then I ran and grabbed the star nearby..
so youre saying you are literally *one* **flimsy fucking unit** away from 0x
...fuck
9/10 ABC strats are doable or nonviable by a single unit
This is the best lead I've seen ever, and it's so effing close. Here's hoping you can make it work, a 100% x0 abc would be godlike. If you do get there, please stream it on Twitch man. the number of views would be insane.
build up speed for 12 hours
He would prerecord and then speed up those sections. He's talked about it already.
WE'RE GONNA DO IT
WE'RE GONNA MAKE MARIO 64 BEATABLE WITH N64 CONTROLLERS MISSING AN A BUTTON.
I BELIEVE
This makes me feel so sad every time I hear about it... RIP RLBs!
(Who knows? Maybe there's still hope)
You raised my hopes and dashed them quite expertly, Sir. Bravo!
i love pancake man's cool things
Luis Silva So you speak Dutch?
nah, I just read somewhere his name meant pancake
eae silvalfo
kkk eae man
quem é você?
holy fuck, this looks actually somewhat possible now, what if you over extend the seesaw, does that make anything more possible?
Sidney600MC we've already taken that into account. There are 4096 possible angles that the seesaw can make. (Angular speed doesn't matter). So overextending does not help :(
even the other seesaw?
Sidney600MC wow sidney the redstone genius watches pannen. i never would have guessed.
Sidney600MC They are the same other than the position. So yeah. (But yes, testing both is important in case it contributes to a rounding error)
avid fan! even makes abc videos on my own, for Super Mario Star Road.
I saw the title and was like
*YES!!! YES!!!*
But then I read the description
The more of these videos I watch, the more I realize that SM64 was so hard for me as a kid because I was extremely unlucky and constantly managed to find these sorts of glitches. I'm also probably bad at the game, but still.
The bowser laugh at the end sums up this video
So, why do you need the pedro spot and to be under the effect of lava allready if no such prerequisites are needed for other floor types?
The only reason I can think of is that lava is only a quasi-floor. Other floor types have effects, but none with damage effects? So, it´s a floor but not a floor? Like, somewhere in between a solid and liquid? I´d assume then you could drown on a water floor if you enter the effect while out of air?
See description "Also, the reason why Mario needs to already be in a lava boost state for the remote lava boost is because if Mario's NOT in a lava boost state, then he uses a different parent collision function."
My guess is that for lava boosting, it triggers specifically on Mario landing on lava, while the others require mario to be touching them. For quicksand, steepness, and extinguishing, you can just walk into the floors in question to trigger them. This is why the normal remote floor trick doesn't work, as its Mario walking onto the remote floor instead of jumping. Pedro spots however, has Mario being in midair constantly landing, triggering the landing code.
Of course, this theory falls apart because you can walk into lava with slopes. Also, the people working on this physically dismantled the code, so they obviously know more than I do.
Yea, I saw the description mate... it didn´t answer my question. Your follow up falls right into my reasoning though. My question was more along the lines of why it uses a different parent collision function. If we can walk into lava then why the seprate function and pedro spot necessity?
Afaik landing on lava and walking into lava trigger the same effect. So, why have a different collision funtion for the same effect.
...are you questioning the logic of the programmers or the ABC crew?
Also, I'm just going to throw out there that I think this is similar to the hanging-ceiling upwarp glitch: in that glitch, Mario jumps into a lower, adjacent ceiling while below a hangable ceiling. In this, Mario lands on the ground while currently above lava. But instead of warping to the lava, Mario is lava boosted.
Think about it as upside-down. That'll probably make sense.
I hope.
_reads title_
_starts breathing heavier_
_starts sweating_
_clicks video_
*FUCK*
He's gonna find a way. I know it.
Major breakthrough right here.
Good job Pannen, keep going for that 0x Any%!
I can't wait! Great work so far on ABC pannen. You really set your heart to this and I can't wait for you to finally get any% with 0x A presses!
This is so cool!!! Man i think i've had the quicksand on the platform death happen on one of my runs way back when i was a little kid. It's awesome knowing it can be reproduced. I hope you guys find a way to do RLB on that platform!!!
Additionally, if this glitch really is a dead end, it makes me feel worse than before it was discovered.
Why? In that area, there are only so many items to interact with, the tools are very limited. If the lava is not a viable tool, then there is nearly nothing left. :((((((
Are you certain the floor and the ceiling both need to be present *on the same frame*, for the RLB to happen? Because if it works if you have a floor one frame and a ceiling the next frame, or vice versa, then getting this to work by rotating the platform might be possible.
While i may be wrong about this, collision detection is done in a set order. The reason a pedro spot is interesting is due to this order because the ceiling detection is done after the floor such that the floor moves mario into a ceiling hit box and since mario cannot move into a ceiling hitbox willingly, the movement is cancelled. This is all done in one frame and as such it would not work if the ceiling and the floor are not present on the same frame.
the fact that there are still bugs/quirks being found to this day gives me hope that one day
we'll see that A Button Challenge to completion.
this is the last big hurdle in any percent, isn't it?
i'm so happy r/n
I can't imagine how many times I've experienced each of these things by complete accident, and died to this one about 5 or so times by complete accident. If only I had known more about all of this years ago.
Hmm, this is a long shot of a long shot, and you've probably already thought of and debunked it, but would a RLB be able to get Mario into the radius of the Bob-omb on the higher floor, allowing you to manipulate the Bob-omb to drop down to your level (so you could use it to create a Goomba staircase as was suggested in your 0x BotFS video)?
Either way, it is still encouraging to see that new techniques and potential solutions are still being discovered. I know you guys will get this sooner or later!
Tim Peterson According to his "BitFS 0x Ideas" video, you'd need to be right at the ceiling of the first floor below the Bob-Omb for it to activate. Even with a perfect RLB near the pillars, you hardly go high enough
And even if you get in the bomb's radius, you need to be in its home to manipulate it.
I figured as much, I'd just wondered if Pannen might have taken some liberties with his diagram. Oh well, here's hoping the automated brute force testing turns up something.
Damn, so close. I really hope this manages to bear fruit.
The pinnacle of the pursuit of knowledge: anything that gets us closer to Any% 0x A Press. BitFS is our Everest.
Obviously there were timelines where those Pedro spots were there, & every time Koek & Friends found them, time travellers ensure this pole gives us our collective fucking strokes.
(Count the uses of the first vowel.)
It's fascinating how you find these very specific conditions. And this discovery makes the pole's tease all the more difficult to take. If there was something else than a pedro spot to trigger this...
Man, I love these videos
Oohh, this makes me so excited.. I so hope desperately a way is found !!!!!!! I'd love to see more about remote actions too
This is so exciting! We're almost there!
1:34 I love how he goes low poly for just like one frame there.
What happens if the floor moves from under you (on the frame you land on it) instead of pedro spot?
Great to see some progress is still being made. Damn frustrating on the other hand that it's still not enough.
wow, I'm glad you've discovered RLBing! I hope you can find a way to put it to good use!
This is surprisingly exciting!
Because the overextended seesaw can rotate the platform in such a way to be disjointed from those...pivot thingies at the end of the seesaw...could those be used as a means of creating a bigger gap between the floor and the ceiling where a RLB could be performed? Like, the platform would itself be the floor and the bottom of the pivot thingy could be the ceiling?
You know, you learned to me a lot of things, and for me, you can"t just clock here. Everything is possible, like the 12 hours for the "Watch for Rolling Rocks" star
Mario's pain laugh slowed down sounds so demonic
I look forward to the day that this darned pole can be conquered without the A button.
(2:25) Oh, and THIS is one of the reasons that TH-cam should NOT be doing away with annotations. What if the video uploader needs to state a correction like that after having already uploaded the video?
SomeGuy712x ? What correction
+NotchMath superoblivioustothejoke
1:24 that scream is so cursed ... it's like mario has been banished to inferno and these are his eternal laments
i love the academic community around this scientific discipline!
I wonder, could the unique edge mechanics explain the TTC Bounty? Something about some edge property that occurred, possibly about the Bob-Omb exploding giving the floor an upwards boosting property? I have no copy/ROM of Mario 64 with which to test it, but it could be an idea.
Dude, you're a GOD of SM64's mechanics
Aw, when I read the title I got my hopes up that you finally conquered that damn pole.
ALMOS THERE! FOR THE 0x A PRESSES!
>BITFS thumbnail
**clicks furiously**
OMG THE QUICKSAND THING HAPPENED TO ME WHEN I WAS A KID, THANK YOU FOR CLEARING THINGS UP PANNEN I WAS SO MAD FOR YEARS LMAO
Another heartbreak video. I know you'll get it sometime, good luck =)
You sir are a true GENIUS
Could you somehow use the cog at the end (like the one the pole's attached to) as a floor/ceiling instead of just the seesaw for both? Or is there something preventing that from working (the points are too close, they're foo far, you can't get into position in time)?
VGKing They're not above lava
would a pedro spot using specific angles of the platform (preferably after inverting it) and the wooden hexagons be possible?
Is the 2+ unit requirement needed to make a Pedro spot work in general, or just for RLBs specifically?
By the gods... the TTC Upwarp is quickly becoming our only hope... and it's slim-to-none we'll actually ever replicate it.
What about the overextended seesaw glitch? Could that be used to create a pedro spot between the upside-down seesaw and one of its pivots at either end?
Could you use vsc to store the lava boost and angle yourself to reactivate it next to the cage or does that not work
Slow motion Mario's scream is golden
Is it not possible to turn those platforms over completely? I feel like I saw that in ome of your videos. Then if so, is there a pedro spot between the platform and the yellow bits on the ends? Could one of those be used for an RLB?
Needs to have lava under it.
With every video my power grows stronger
Damn it! We're gettin' so close!
that chopped and screwed Mario scream had me dying lmao
Could the RLB between the ramp and the octagon reach the red coin for a faster BiTFS with red coins 1x?
Can you use the hexagons at the ends of the seesaws to create a Pedro spot there and potentially get past the pole 0x?
Could we use entity duplication or HOLP to place a moving platform or cork box above mario on the spot with the tilting platform, acting as a sort of ceiling to make a Pedro Spot?
You cannot clone anything at that point in the level, if you could, you wouldn't need the RLB at all.
Also, cloned objects like those don't have collision, so they have no floors/ceilings necessary for a Pedro spot.
What's the automated brute force testing? Also, could we use the RLB to get high enough to manipulate the bo-bomb?
"We can have Mario experience quicksand death"
this is just a Mario torture channel
woah, I missed those kinds of videos
IT'S NOT HOPELESS YET GUYS! WE CAN STILL DO IT!
THE HOPE IS NOT LOST. WE CAN DO IT.
We believe in you, Pannen!
1:24
...I'm gonna be having nightmares with that laugh.
Damn! This looked so promising. Still does, to a lesser extent.
You really got my hopes up there, pannen. how could you.
would overhealing via that spinning heart help in any way (overhealing on a spinning heart is explianed in Pannen's video about HP)? I mean, you can only lava boost (Remote of not) twice before the next one deals lethal damage, but if you overhealed on that spinning heart, then you could do it more in a short time span. I'm not sure if that could help turn the platform into a Pedro spot, or if it would open up other possibilities besides pedro spots for RLB, but it's an interesting thought nonetheless.
Another thought: in your 0x BitS video, you mention trying to LB to manipulate the bomb-omb, causing it to fall down so you could use it to clone goombas. Could you use RLB to do this? With regular LB, you didn't get enough height, but the whole points of RLB is that you get extra height from the second boost.
Unless you can find a Pedro spot at the right height on the pillars, probably not, and even then the chances are pretty slim
if you turn the rotating platform upside down, could the wood cylinder that the pole's on be like the ceiling for an RLB?
Do you do brute force testing a lot for this kimd of thing?
1:25 The sound of the death.
Mario screams like he got killed by a scary thing 1 second before he dies (slomo scene)
i wonder if its possible to conserve a remote lava boosts vertical speed and reactivate it somewhere else??? and if that is possible, where would it be usefull???
when you slowed down the demonstration, I couldn't help but laugh xD
The fact that this game is so brutally flawed is what makes it so superb.
How long the automate brute force might take at most? like 1-2 days? or several weeks?
Slow motion burning Mario will haunt my nightmares.
1:31 This is the wild mario's mating call.
"I DON'T WANT TO LIVE ANYMORE"
(Stands near corner edge of a cliff)
You deserve to be called Dr. Mario
Have you tried forcing the seesaw down in the opposite direction to raise its ceiling and then using BLJs or something to get the highest possible ceiling? Would that form a pedro spot?
BLJ's require many a presses.
Well, I mean manipulating the platform and pressing it down on the right to raise the ceiling on the left, then using some kind of trick to very rapidly get under that. Or find some way to manipulate or freeze the seesaws to form a pedro spot there.
HAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAAAA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA*
1:30 my favourite part