How Holding Objects Really Works
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 มี.ค. 2016
- I explain how holding objects really works in SM64. Here is a complete summary:
When Mario grabs at an object and appears to hold it, it's actually just a clever illusion. The object instead becomes invisible and intangible, in state called "limbo". In limbo, the object won't interact with or influence anything in the real world. Simultaneously when the object is sent to limbo, Mario's given a "ticket" that looks exactly like the object he grabbed at. Furthermore, when Mario releases the ticket, the object will come back from limbo to the real world on the same frame the ticket disappears. And so, since the ticket appears right when the object is sent to limbo, and since the object comes back from limbo right when the ticket disappears, it creates the illusion that the ticket IS the object, but that's false.
Since the ticket is its own entity separate from the object, it needs its own coordinates to render at. Thus, the HOLP is a variable specifically designed to be where the ticket renders. The HOLP is used as the bridge for the transition from ticket to object, since the object needs to know where to appear in the real world so as to maintain the illusion that the ticket was the object. If Mario throws the ticket, the object appears at the HOLP but translated 32 units forward in Mario's facing direction. If Mario drops the ticket, the object appears at the HOLP laterally but at Mario's current height. More info on this here: • Releasing Objects . Additionally, if the ticket doesn't render because of any number of glitches, then the HOLP simply won't bother to update. We can take advantage of this by having the object transition back to the real world at an old HOLP value.
Cloning is a glitch where we grab at an object and it unloads after the grab is established (frame 3) but before the object is sent to limbo (frame 6). Since unloaded objects aren't processed, the object is never sent to limbo, and so Mario ends up with a ticket for an object not in limbo. The whole point of sending objects to limbo is to keep them safe and inactive so they won't unload while we're supposedly holding them. But since this doesn't happen, any object can now load into the slot represented by the ticket, and so it will appear as though Mario is holding those objects.
Handsfree teleporting is a glitch where Mario teleports while holding a ticket. Unlike all other ways of releasing a ticket, this way doesn't redeem the ticket, but instead discards the ticket without affecting the corresponding object. Consequently, the object remains in limbo, but Mario no longer has its ticket. Thus, Mario becomes unable to retrieve the object from limbo and it's stuck there forever.
However, the exception to this is bob-bombs, since bob-ombs are unique in that they remain tangible in limbo. Consequently, bob-ombs can be manually grabbed straight out of limbo. The bob-bombs' tangibility in limbo also explains many bob-omb-related idiosyncrasies, such as why Mario can push goombas and detonate other bob-ombs while holding a bob-omb. It also explains why Mario experiences backwards momentum while holding a bloated bob-omb,
since the bob-omb's bloated hitbox is large enough so that it overlaps with Mario's hitbox. Hence, the bob-omb's hitbox will push Mario back, then update close to Mario again, then push Mario back, then update close to Mario again, and this repeats. The result is that Mario experiences constant backwards momentum.
P.S. The word "limbo" is defined as:
- a place or state of oblivion to which persons or things are regarded as being relegated when cast aside, forgotten, past, or out of date
- an intermediate, transitional, or midway state or place
- a place or state of imprisonment or confinement
Hence, it seemed like a fitting name to describe the realm that held objects are confined to as they wait for Mario to release the ticket so that they may return to the real world
Corrections:
(1) I said the grab is established on frame 3 of the grab, but it's actually established on frames 4 and 5. My mistake. - เกม
So you're just working your day job at the dry cleaners. Then, a plump Italian plumber walks through the door, wearing a red shirt and cap and blue overalls. For all the time you've worked there, this is the first time you've seen him. Then, he asks, "May I get-a my brother's clothes?" You instinctively reply, "May I see your ticket, sir?" Realizing his "mistake," he checks his pockets and states, "It seems that I have lost-a my ticket. But watch-a this." The man then holds out his arms as if he were holding something, steps in place a few times, and then throws the "object." The clothes that he asked for immediately appear, like some kind of magic trick. The man then says, "See you next time." He backs up against the wall near the door and begins jumping in a strange manner. Moments later, he starts spasming against the wall, and then disappears in an instant.
What.???!!?? XD
lmao
That was the most beautiful story I've ever seen with my own two eyes...
Mario clones an object and then BLJs out of existence
@@nikosquared4123 Later, he comes back with what appears to be a cork box... but in reality, it's only a clone.
Something as simple as grabbing objects suddenly turns into banishing them to the Shadow Realm
the beauty that is science
*game programming
Purple realm
HE SENT THIS NIGGA TO THE SHADOW REALM
@@eltiolavara9 have you got n word pass?
Mario just sealed a lost child in limbo for eternity
Now Tuxie's mother will upset because Mario lost the ticket
"I get a sick pleasure from stranding a bob-omb in a PU, never to see his bob-omb brethren again"
-Pannenkeok2012
No I'm not joking.
Do you have a source for that quote because it sounds amazing
th-cam.com/video/AVtCM1B6iYk/w-d-xo.html&lc=z130whza1xeiv3kms22aeluqkuqyercyz04
pannenkeok2012
You're a gift to the world.
Your coatroom analogy made me want coat rooms to have miniature coats instead of tickets.
"You found my precious, precious baby! Where have you been? How can I ever thank you, Mario? But first, can you please set it down?"
"Oh, um, sorry, but I can't."
"What?! Why not?"
"Because I banished it forever into a limbo dimension where nothing is real"
i swear, one day i'll be able to recreate this game from the ground up, perfectly 1:1, just by watching your videos
and keep the base code this time unlike nintindo
Well, apparently, there's not need for that anymore
lol
So basically Mario has the ability to banish anything he picks up to another dimension and then bring it back into his own dimension at will? Oh.
And then Super Paper Mario made that canon. No need to kill the Goomba, just pick it up, flip between dimensions, and then leave it there.
Screw logic.
Windows wanted to join!
You are screwed, Logic Data_Screw_exe.png
Do you mean that my cheese pizza will always stay 100 units in front and 60 units above me, and I'm just eating air?
This is amazing!
and if you grab a fake cork box, load a slice into your hands, and eat that slice, then leave your room and come back, the slice will still be there, pretty neat
you should do a video on the invisible coatroom worker glitch
lol
+Sp00n Truth: He's a lazy ass, never showing up to work.
Apparently doesn't need to.
Proof that artificial intelligence will one day rule the world, clearly
Actually the reason for that is because the worker put himself in limbo, and someone else got rid of the ticket. Still being tangible, he can do his job in the coatroom, forever trapped in limbo.
This game sure never needed to be this deeply researched, but I am so glad it is.
Sometimes crazy deep research on a game can be entertaining
Invading personal space is sooo pre-Pannen.
"Dude, you're infringing my hitbox.. by like, 36 units. Back up, homie."
Fun fact: When chuckya grabs Mario he does the same thing. He gets a ticket and Mario is sent into Limbo.
You can see that by walking in front of a bob-omb first. The bob-omb will then walk towards Mario and if Mario is then grabbed by a chuckya the bob-omb will still run towards the place where Mario was grabbed.
If you enter water while in limbo, you can move while being invisible.
Hopefully, this video will bring everything together so that it all makes sense!
+pannenkeok2012 where does the holp start at the beginning of the game when the holp hasn't been used at all? will the game just crash, or is it at 0,0 coordinates?
+matthew brennan 0,0,0
+pannenkeok2012 Why was the cork box y at -0 and not 0? Is there a difference?
The HOLP is initially at (x,y,z) = (0,0,0)
-0 is just an idiosyncrasy of floats. You shouldn't pay it much attention
backwards Bob omb movement could be a fun speedrun subcategory. it'd be cool to hack it to be constantly active on Mario and then trying to optimize routes with that movement
Sorry that this is 2 years late, but there is no known hack or code, sadly
Seth Johnson
Ze_eTPlays Sorry for not responding for 2 months, but I think I found a way. Using a 2 player gameshark debug mode and a GS button reset code, I finally made it after 2 seconds.
80330E94 0003
8133D2DE 0001
812CB29E D5E8
812CB2EA D5E8
812CB336 D5E8
812CB2BE 3068
812CB2C2 0074
812CB30A 3174
812CB30E 00BC
812CB356 1AA4
812CB35A 0090
8833B248 AAAA
How to use: Spawn a bob-omb and grab it bloated. Then while still holding the bomb, press the GS button to reset.
Replace Limbo with hell and this video gets considerably funnier.
The way the title is worded, I thought this was a VSauce video at first glance.
"Grabbing things is... handy, isn't it? Even babies can grab things, so almost every person can appreciate it together: the versatility of such a simple skill as grabbing. I mean grabbing something _is_ pretty straightforward... right?"
*music plays*
Nailed it!
I can totally see that now, I can't see it any other way
Where's the classic opening
Pannen is secretly vsauce confirmed
"I LOST THE TICKET BUT I JUST WANT MY COAT BACK !"
...seriously though, that was some interesting stuff there. :P
8:43 and Mario can still hear the baby penguin crying (inside his conscience)
I'd really wanna see someone lock Bowser in limbo, even though that's both impossible & useless
or just hack bitdw to hold bowser hands free in general
"This allows for some rather interesting movement!"
Oh, that's just an extended superslide.
...Wait, wrong N64 game.
Does this apply in real life?
Of course ! *grabs an object fake*
+Kinkzoz it would be awesome if i could set my HOLP in my room and then go to a shop and clone stuff...
GLITCHED SHOPLIFTING
As long as you carry a hat in your hand, it should work. Just make sure you release the item by throwing it and not dropping it, otherwise it could end up underground or above your house depending on how the elevation of the store compares to the elevation of your house.
+pannenkeok2012 but a hat, in the real world, is also an item
is that why it doesn't work
TRASH?????? You're using the wrong hat.
I honest to God love this channel. It really shows how weird computer logic is and how it can be exploited.
You forgot ONE DETAIL.
Mario doesn't wear a coat.
Man, so all of Pannen's explanations were lies? I want my 12 minutes back!
Not anymore, he lost the ticket.
But Mario has a cork box.
FyreOnix
That's because he lost his ticket
HOLP sounds like what Mario says when he jumps
Weegee Over Lord he actually says "hup"
long jump does YAHOOO
No, he says "YAH!"
Nope, he says "YAH!" when he BLJs.
Ze_eTPlays
No he says Y-YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAHOOOO!
I passed my physics exam after watching this
Very interesting video. I never thought something as simple as grabbing something in SM64 was actually really complex. Also the keyframing and editing was really good. Thanks a lot for this video, I found it very intriguing.
thanks! :)
imagine leaving your coat in a coatroom and losing the ticket for it, therefore eternally trapping your coat in limbo
.
that is, unless your coat is a bomb.
local plumber literally erases penguin from existance as we know it, more at 11
For anyone who doesn't know and is going into the comments for an explanation: HOLP is short for "Held Object's Last Position".
It's surprisingly weird to see Bowser in one of these videos.
This video made me afraid to lose my ticket if I ever end up using one of these coat stations, so I think I won't.
I remember seeing this years ago and really enjoying it! Thanks for the really interesting explanation! I honestly never considered how complicated doing something as simple as holding an object could actually be!
So much detail on this explanation, it's impossible to not understand this now, thanks a lot dude.
Also, you didn't do the kick at the end =(
Welp, i've watched enough pannekeok for today.
My brain hurts.
Great video! Especially that ending was hilarious. Now I finally know why the bloated bob-omb pushes you. ...although that's like the easiest part of the video (sometimes I just don't see the easy things) xD
The coatroom-animations were also super cute :3
Actually, the first thing I thought of when you said the object becomes invisible and intangible is Minecraft's _FallingSand_ entity. Except FallingSand is a single entity that can be skinned to look like any block, can have its physics turned on or off, and during normal gameplay, it actually destroys/creates the sand (or gravel) that it masquerades as if the game's physics determines that the block can "fall" (sand can fall? -> destroy sand at (X1, Y1, Z1) -> spawn fallingsand at (X1, Y1, Z1) -> hit block? -> kill fallingsand at (X2, Y2, Z2) -> create sand at (X2, Y2, Z2)).
I say "determine" because there are plenty of optimization-bourne in-game bugs that can prevent sand from falling by tricking the game into thinking that either there's something below a block of sand, or that it doesn't need to check that block for some reason (block updates).
Beyond that, FallingSand is generally just plain glitchy. For example, if you put a piston under a pillar of 14 blocks of sand, and arrange it to rapidly move up and down, you'll _lose sand_.
Braden Best SethBling could use command blocks to create a custom entity: *_Walking Sand_*
Replace a walking entity with a FallingSand entity boom
Your videos are always so interesting and perfectly explained!!! One of my favourite channel, keep up with this fantastic work!
One of your future videos confused the crap out of me but this one cleared it all up. Very concise and great visualizations.
Great work, your dedication to this game is legit. :D
In this episode of pancake man does the thing: he sends penguins to hell
Oh and there is also a part when he becomes Michael Jackson and randomly moonwalks
I’m Really really impressed, that’s such a deep understanding of the game machanics. You have my gratitude and my respect for sharing your wisdom and your insight with the world !
I can't stop thinking about Mario ripping off space and time to save a bob-omb from limbo.
Two main things I want to say about this video.
The first is that for as "silly" as some may say the coatroom comparison was, it actually made a lot of sense to me, and I liked how easily comprehensible it was.
The other is that if Mario really does have the power to transport things to and from some sort of "limbo", the guys over at Death Battle may have made a huge oversight.
"A baby penguin in limbo"
I'm only 1:19 in, I'm feeling this one.
Also, "Bowser in Limbo" sounds like an interesting stage.
blara2401 Bowser In the Coatroom
Bowser In the Newsagents
Bowser At the Park
Bowser Everywhere.
You have a great way of explaining complicated things easy to understand
So I just now realized that the accordion-like sound in BoB is actually just somebody saying "doot"
You mean you didn't know that before?
... They're secretly Skeletons
DarkLink1996 you mean skellingtons*
How Is This a Name
How Is This a Comment
+Isawa De La Pradera You mean skeltals?
With your ticket example, i understood everything. Continue to explain some unexplainable SM64 facts like this
Wow thanks so much for this amazing video!! I LOVED IT!! I NEVER KNEW that was how holding objects worked until now!! I always thought it was the real object being picked up! I wonder if other Super Mario games with picking up objects, including the ds version of sm64, do this! The explanations were great, I was able to understand everything you were talking about! Plus it was funny when Mario was trying to pick up his box but did not have the ticket XD. You have a new subscriber I love watching your videos!!!
I want to seen that interesting movement coupled with a blj
i never thought i would see mario with a coat ticket in his hand
I really like these explanations, smart coders man, being efficient and all..
Here’s something interesting I found in Super Mario 64: in Shifting Sand Land the yellow box that contains a shell on the roof of the structure near the start of the level makes sand particles appear when you walk on top of it. I don’t know if it’s supposed to do that or not.
really interesting how inconsistently coded the mario grabbing objects system is. as a game designer i always freak out when i realise ive done something in an unintuitive or inconsistent way within my code, but it's good to know this shit just happens in big games too lol
mario has some fancy looking coats
You're great at explaining things.
i like how the frame comparisons were timed to the walking sfx x3
I've always wondered how speedrunners did the Chain Chomp star without opening the gate, and this explains part of it! The increased Bobomb hitbox pushes Mario backwards, and he collides with the gate, probably in a particular way that takes advantage of the wall hitboxes being projected in cardinal directions, and so Mario pops on through!
these videos are so awesome.
11:20 that looks like it could become a pretty fun challenge
that intro really...
grabbed my attention
So essentially it's like an empty box that doesn't really have the product it contains, but just the shell of it, and you need to claim it at the cashier to actually get the real product with the actual box.
Man.
I think it speaks to my level of sophistication that the concept of a coatroom is the most alien thing to me in this video.
this video was so awesome!
{T}: Target artifact or creature phases out as long as Mario remains tapped.
This is sincere, you did a really good job explaining. Now I finally understand why and how SM64 clones work. Thank you, I wish all university lecturers are like you.
wow.. would have never noticed the fuse smoke thing if i didn't specifically watch for it as you set it down after reading the comment >.> it indeed DOES move back a bit once placed... cool!
I actually did something similar in Unreal once for a school project. The idea was that I wanted the player to collect wheels and attach them to a car but with time being an issue, I created two sets of wheels, one on the car and one scattered around the level.
Each time the player touched a wheel scattered around the level, the wheel would go invisible (it was always intangible) and a switch would be flipped. The car already had a set of wheels but they were invisible and when when the player touched the car, one of the wheels would become visible for every switch that was flipped.
So without ever giving the player an inventory, I had given them the ability to collect items. The key to good game design is to give the illusion of what should happen while you go off and set things up to be as simple and easy to make as possible.
You know, with all this knowledge of SM64's inner workings, you could probably create a perfect clone of the engine.
does anything special happen when you backwards long jump while holding a despawned bloated bob-omb (the last thing in the video)?
WhimsyHeath no
I think the Penguin, Bob-omb, Crazy Box, and Ukiki in limbo update to Mario's position because they produce visual effects (bob-omb) and noises that have to update to mario's position constantly
2:18
“Consider a coatroom.”
What the hell is a coatroom?
(reads on)
“When you want to drop off your coat somewhere secure, you deposit it in a coatroom. Then you’re given a ticket that represents your ownership of the coat...”
Oh. I see.
“Later when you want your coat back, you can redeem the ticket and your coat will be returned to you.”
👌🏻.
Finally, we're talking about alternate dimensions
Mario 64 101 classes when?
326,488 years ago, but only of you're QPU alligned.
Fantastic, fascinating, ff.. amazing
You can vanish objects into other dimensions, but can't get past a freakin' pole.
Why.
Derek Alexander Lara Carmona
Now you can.
I'd never think I would understand metaphysics because of a Mario 64 video
Mario: Yes, I’d like to get my cork box back from limbo, please.
It would be more funny if you used the far away model of Mario for the demo with the ticket and coat.
Okay. So how does any of this coat room stuff translate over to Super Mario 64 DS and Yoshi's ability to make eggs in that game (especially his ability to make square eggs from the crates)?
10:15: "I got a bomb-a. You'd better-a give me that-a money, or else-a!"
10:32: "And we still get the fruit ba...(KA-BOOM!!!)"
Now I finally know HOLP stands for Held Object's Last Position
Great video!
I always thought it was when Mario grabs something or plays the animation of grabbing as near movable checkpoints ex cork box as a checkpoint he will grab the nearest object or model and use that. And since the nearest object is the object you want to grab its the first thing that teleports to mario's hands is the movable checkpoint and made me think of the bobomb glitch causes Mario to grab an nonexistent object which keeps him in the state of trying to find an object to grab so when he goes to the nearest object it's teleported to mario's hands
I feel like your videos on all this stuff is a cheatsheet for beginner coders devising logic to engines.
Any clues on why they decided to make this whole "limbo" thing in the first place instead of just having the real object move with you?
Huh, always wondered why the smoke from Bob-Ombs was like slightly in front of them when you carried them.
The non-throwable limbo objects update with Mario
My guess is having it in the same place it was picked up would require it to be teleported, but having it update with Mario means you can just say "have object go down x units"
More subs are deserved.
One question: When object is in limbo and we don't have the ticket, what if there is a way to get a ticket for example of object 30, then unload the object in limbo somehow and/or change its ID to 30 and have the ticket of the object back? Or maybe a way to get a ticket with ID 30 from other source? Or maybe take ticket and change it's ID by wanking the game's memory by lots of objects? Or something else like that?
(nvm, 3 questions lol)
You'll have a ticket for a different slot. You can change what object is in that slot, but you can't change which slot the ticket references. So there's no way to recover it
pannenkeok2012 Okay then.
_(insert hype responce)_
You can choose the slot by grabbing an object from that slot, right? So since the limbo object will stay in its slot, the only way to grab the slot is to grab the limbo object itself, right?
What if you grab the limbo bobomb fake? Wait is that even possible? I need to look back on how to clone again.
A bob-omb in limbo won't explode, so you can't grab it fake
11:55 Moonwalk 2.0 xD :D
this reminds me of the days I've spent programming 3d graphics...
I found out something, chuckya also has a holp and when you change chuckyas graphics to Mario's using stroop it will no longer update. Don't know if this is useful but worth looking into. I believe this is also why the camera behaves so weird when being picked up. I'm not sure about king bobomb but I suspect the results with it will be similar.
So um... I heard you have a cork box. Can I touch it
Mario: Well, technically, this isn't the real cork box, just a visual representation to show that I am the owner of the cork box.
So, Mario invented NFTs before everyone else.
Welcome to Super Mario 64, where Sleeping, picking things up, and the things that make a room around you (walls, floors, and ceilings) are incredibly complicated.
Oh yeah and blinking
"Where do you work again?"
"I work at limbo.
Massive igloo peeling starfruit
So with that last glitch (invisible bobomb pushing mario around), I guess it'd be possible to get a wing cap and then trigger the start of the koopa race (but jump on the first frame before his text appears). Then fly up to the top of the mountain and trigger the text. I think it'd be another way to finish the race in 0.0 seconds. Not useful, but a few years ago there was a bit of discussion of who could finish the race the fastest.
But would it be faster than this: th-cam.com/video/Zhilbm73aeQ/w-d-xo.html
so cloning an object is like dropping off your coat (a cork box) and getting a ticket for someone elses coat (object you want to clone)
When I first played Super Mario 64 in 1996, I noticed that grabbing an object while Mario was already holding his hat would cause the object to vanish, and that trying to put it down or throw it would cause it to reappear in an abnormal location. But for the past twenty years, I never saw that glitch being discussed by anyone else. This video (specifically 4:10) is the first time I've seen an explanation for why it happens.
That's hat in hand glitch
and hands free teleporting is dropping off your coat (a cork box) and losing the ticket
Awesome!
11:34 Does the kick's hitbox extend far enough to let you hit things by running into them that way?