What's the difference between these SHIMANO BRAKES?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
- In this video we are testing and reviewing cheap Shimano M41OO brake levers and MT420 4-Piston brakes versus Shimano Deore XT. You'll be surprised which one wins!
Marin Alpine Trail 7
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SHIMANO BR-M4120 Disc Brake Black, Front
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Thanks for the support!
Chapters
00:00 - Intro
00:42 - Side-by-side XT versus MT420
01:30 - XT M8100 versus M4100 Break lever
02:14 - 2 Finger Brake Lever vs. 1 Finger
03:16 - What's Shimano Servo Wave Action?
04:27 - Wondering Bite Point Shimano Brakes?
05:55 - Shimano MT420 vs. M8120 XT
06:44 - What's Shimano Ice Technology Brake Pads?
08:01 - MTB Brakes Price$$$
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/ @jaredhoff - กีฬา
One of the most sincere and cut-to-the-chase reviews i've ever seen. I have a pair of Deore 4 piston brakes. These are the entrance to high end and in my opinion they offer almost every feature a XT has with tons of less nonsense branding costs.
Thank you for the awesome comment 👍 This lets me know I’m doing something right. Deore brakes are so good.
I highly doubt if they could match 2 piston XT's braking power and precision. But they are propably a very good deal for their price.
@@jurekgadzinowski2895 Rode on an xt/xtr bike before. It felt like the same brakes except for the beauty of it.
I would go for better brake pads for higher performance and precision. The thing is, the best ones are only available in XT+ series, although there are very good options up to Deore and SLX.
@@jurekgadzinowski2895 I had both, better that xt 2 pistons, slightly worse than xt 4 piston
i have the same shimano m4100 brakes on my giant trance x....works really well...stops great....i didnt like the lever feel in my hand...swapped out lever with XT 8100....kept the MT420 calipers...works great....no need to fully replace....completely agree with your assessment.
Heck yeah 🤙🏻 Lever swap is definitely something I’ll try one day.
Interesting. Good to know as an "upgrade" without totally replace the set.
do you think the m4100 brakes are good for wheelies and could they lock up a wheelie???
@@batm4nssDepends on how much grip do you have. On some tires or tire pressures they might be able to lock the wheel, on some others they might be unable to do it. But for wheelies there is no need to have such braking power to lock the wheel.
@@batm4nssDepends how much do you and your weight. I have SLX M7100 and they are very strong but they are not locking up the rear wheel easily, maybe because i have pretty grippy tires.
Thanks for your video! You really save my money. Best analysis difference between cheap 4-piston and expensive brakes. I only bought Deore break levers for my MT420 because I use 1 finger and don't like the look of M4100's big size lever.
Deore is a great option 👍
Remember - xt levers use BH90 hose. The cheaper levers use the BH59 hose. BH90 hose has a narrower bore, and the xt lever unit is developed for that. So if you connect the xt levers to the bigger bore BH59 HOSE you are not going to get the proper results. The "bite" point will wander, because the fluid force amount pumped will be dissipated by the larger cross sectional area of the internal bore multiplied by the hose length. Also note BH90 uses the grey barb insets, whereas BH59 uses the larger diameter gold coloured barbs.
The outer casing has the same external diameter so the olives are common to both.
In any case, people very much under rate the cheaper M400 series units - they are a good brake.
Regards Tony Sadler South Wales UK 🏴
I think I mentioned that in the vid 🤔 Good points though 👍
I think I mentioned that in the vid 🤔 Good points though 👍
@@JaredHoff sorry I must have missed it, much obliged for your reply, all the best, regards Tony Sadler
Ps. I agree the cheaper brakes are very sound options. Good video thank you.
And I have no issue whatsoever. Works perfectly.
I've used a Shimano MT200 before. When I brought my bike to a downhill, my brakes smoked. I bought the M6100 brakes and calipers, and had my brakes replaced. Later on, I also replaced the pads to one with fins, as well as the RT86 rotors. The braking power improved. The MT200 I had was relegated to my folding bike.
👍👍👍 Awesome
I have mt200's on my xc hardtail, I've always thought they were great but when they got hot, they lost a bit of power. definitely not the best for sustained downhills but I would strongly recommend them as they only cost £45 and provide loads of power on a 180mm RT56 (I think) rotor. Then again I have got 26" wheels (because they are the best) so the brakes are more efficient at stopping me.
Now that's a good honest review..thanks mate
Thank you! That’s what I try to do 👍
Totally agree with this review.
I got front Xt m8000 levers and rear Mt501 levers on MT420 calipers on my Norco sight VLT and i find i got more than enough stopping power going downhill, you can only pull so hard until you break traction. I really cant tell the braking power difference between my XT levers and my Mt501 levers. The only difference i see the XT is made in japan and the Mt501 is made in Malaysia and the finish on the XT is nicer but i cant really justify the price difference for something that performs roughly the same but made in japan with slightly better looking finish (depends on personal preference).
Awesome comment. Thanks!
Hi and thanks for a real review that gives feedback on what really matters in contrast to what the marketing channels would have us think.
I mean the XT's look great but for a completely reasonable person you have to ask yourself whether your friends' compliments are worth the extra bucks or not, because for the most part what you're really paying for are the looks. That servo wave thing means nothing if you can't substantially feel the power when you're braking.
And I'm not hating, no, I'm speaking from an experience perspective - When I was building a friend's bike I installed the mt400's and was really surprised by the power when I rode it. It was a complete banger because I was expecting significantly less power than what I have on my bike but was completely blown away because I really couldn't tell the difference, and now I'm here wondering what other marketing gimmicks we've fallen for.
I hear ya man!
I always give honest feedback. However, I also love upgrading my bike so I’m always buying stuff I don’t “really” need for looks or marginal gains 😂 🤦♀️
4100 levers with the 420 calipers will stop most people in most situations with no problem. However, mounted with the deore shifter using ispec2 I could never get the ergonomics that I wanted. One finger braking would either leave my middle finger squashed or I had to increase the distance from the bar and stretch. Swapping to deore levers has made a world of difference getting my cockpit set up ergonomically with a slightly easier pull. Best $60 I spent on my bike ever. No issues with wandering brake point that I notice. If the budget friendly 420's come with your bike, replace the levers if you don't love them. If you are purchasing new on a budget, go with the 520's(did they stop making these?) or 6120's and get the nicer lever.
Great comment. Totally agree with you. I’m going to keep using these break lever for now, but might switch out the brake levers in the future.
I'm in the market for new hydraulic front brake. Building a singlespeed traclocross bike. Ordered a gravel fork for it, but didn't know much about hydro brakes since my bike was 105 rim style on my old fork. Thanks for helping me decide. And subscribed for sure!
Glad to have helped in anyway 👍
Love the video, Jared. Let's be honest about the real issue here. Most people that are just getting into mountain biking are ok with whatever comes on the bike. They won't know any better until they've been riding and made some friends. Friends that have better bikes with better parts. I've felt that wandering bite on SLX 4 pots and everything below. I haven't felt it on the XT's yet so I'm wondering if the bite point adjustment on the XT's levers eliminates that. I have 8100's on one bike, TRP Slate T4's on one, Hayes Dominion A4's on one, Magura MT4's on one...anyhow, the Dominions are my favorite. They'll send you otb in the blink of an eye and they've never faded on me. The MT4's with their race pads are pretty insane also and they're 2 pot. And this is another point I think a lot of people miss when shopping for, or setting up brakes, your rotor and pad choice absolutely matters. The MT4's came with the blue resin pads. They wouldn't stop me for the world. No matter what I did, because I didn't have the right rotor. So instead of buying the rotors, I bought pads to match the rotors I do have (ice tech). They're unbelievable now. So many other brake choices and a lot of them are better, and cheaper, than the Shimano alternative.
A lot of good stuff in that comment. There’s so many little details that make a huge difference. But totally agree that beginner riders can probably just ride what they bought and be good to go until they start riding a lot faster on more technical/steeper trails.
Are the m4 pads metal? I have mt7 and they are bad. The mt7 came with cheap resin pads
@@will21 I believe they brand all their pads the same. So they have a resin, a performance and a race. The metal (race) pads for mine are 7R and for yours it's 8R. And you're not wrong, the resin pads are pretty bad. Night and day with the race pads, so much bite.
In case of lever M4100 are different because of Servo Wave which changes initial bite but M6100, M7100, M8100, M9120 are more or less the same. They have different materials and weight. Different lever, steel, alu, dimples on lever's end. Also if someone want longer free stroke from M7100 up it could be set with free stroke screw(in case of M7100 you need to replace screws with Y-8VC98070). But in the end they are working exactly the same with same power and lever feel. Combine them with crazy stiff magura's caliper and you have the best brake on the market ;) MT4/5 for normal free stroke, MT7/8 for shorter free stroke but more demanding setup.
Thanks for adding additional info. I tried to cover a lot of that in this video, but it’s always challenging when you’re filming the videos yourself and such…
Hello ,i have last year shimano xt m8120 and this year deore m6120 ,and for me , feeling/power its really better on my deore cheaper m6120 brake ! I love this ,better than my code R /Rsc have in a past.. honestly, like you, dont spend money for high model, its not à good value vs cheap brake shimano does à really really good job!!! I love deore m6120 on my trek slash 8 ! And i agree with your conclusion 😉 Nice vidéo:))
Thank you! Slash 8 is an amazing MTB
I use M4100 4 pistons on my enduro bike for 3 years now and I totaly agree with you. Planty of power, no complain about durability. I put some Ice Tech XT rotors on my bike and I think that it is a better investment than a high end caliper or lever. Last but not least, the blead is (in my opinion) easier on the M4100 than on the XT or even XTR.
👍 I will admit that my e-bike has a full XT brake setup and I love it, but the bike came that way so no need to change it.
I have an S-works Stumpjumper 6Fattie with XT M8100 2 piston brakes and a Specialized Stumpy 6Fattie with Deore M6100 brakes. Both sets have metal pads and I'm running similar rotors on both bikes--equivalent models one center lock the other 6-bolt. After close to a year of riding both, I can say the performance is indistinguishable. The XT levers are nicer due to tool free reach adjust and freestroke adjust ability, and I like the one finger lever size the XT sports, but I use only one finger on the M6100's without issue. The brake comparison here illustrates why I remain a Shimano fan: throughout the component range, there is only subtle differences in performance between midrange and high-end components and the performance is steady awesome.
Definitely 👍
Hi Jared. I never felt the wandering brake feel you described when I upgraded my lever's . I ordered a more basic Deore BL-M6100 Disc Brake Lever from Thunder Mountain Bikes, $65 total with tax for the pair. Kept everything else the same 401 brakes calipers and pads however my bike did not come with the "resin only" Shimano rotors so I think it gave me a little bit better bite. My base Deore levers do not offer any adjustment other than lover reach. Work out really well on my budget bill. As I mentioned from your previous video I was able to get away with a lever bleed both front and rear too. .... In my experience the base 401 levers had a much more aggressive on off bike point and my servo brakes feel far superior ergonomically and feel at the finger tip.
Awesome! I definitely think I’m going to try swapping the levers in the future.
Me neither ... no difference whatsoever.
Honestly the simpler the better, a friend of mine had the Sram RSC brakes and i got the code R's a year or so later. He was blown away by how much more powerfull mine were despite both of us having the same caliper and the lever being the only difference. I still ride them and they were a great choice for me, especially since they were a bargain with very little use (160 bucks for the pair)
SRAM code R’s always seem to take a bit to get setup right.
Thanks for the info . I am building a mtb and so far i have got everything shimano xt m8100. And i haven't decided about the breaks but 4 piston sounds good😮 i was thinking magura 😮
I’ve heard good things about Magura. I’m really liking my TRP brakes right now
I have the same 4100 set up, I didn't like the larger levers at first, but got used to them. They work great . No problems and prefer to the guides they replaced.
Heck yeah! Don’t fix if it ain’t broken 👍
I hate my Shimano mt-420, TRPs cheapest brakes(slate evo) feel way better breaking power and just feel better.
The MT420s came specc'd on my 42lb Trek Fuel EXe 9.5 and I find there is not enough stopping power, I had a couple crashes as a result. Found MT7120 calipers for a great price and it's been a huge upgrade - I ride so much more confidently now. I still have the M4100 brake levers and they're fine performance-wise but the ergonomics aren't great and my fingers feel strained on longer DH trails (is there such a thing as finger pump? lol). I'll be looking to upgrade the brake levers if I find em for a good price.
I didn't know about the servowave feature. Great review!
E-Bikes definitely require more stopping power. Finger pump is real 😂 I’m interested to see how these brakes hold up on longer downhill runs in the summer heat. I’ll probably end up needing to upgrade them 🤷🏼♂️ but we shall see
@@JaredHoff you nailed it with the two finger vs one finger usage in your review - riding with one finger on the MT4100 brake lever on DH runs longer than 30s is when it starts to hurt for me. Looking forward to your experiences when it gets warmer.
Same on my e-bike, not near enough braking if your a hard rider . Trps cheapest slate evos brakes are way better!
It is very enlightening when one becomes familiar with the different quality levels of bicycle components, and how bicycle manufactures, retailers take advantage of people's ignorance in these matters.
Shimano and SRAM offer such good entry level products.
SLX brakes are just as good as XT.
Word
The drivetrains are great too! I had a Shimano SLX 9 speed a while ago that sadly broke and for the time i had it it performed AMAZING, i could output a little more power than usual and get great stupid fast shifts. I'm on a Sram X9 on a different bike now and i still feel like the SLX was far better even now that i have a shimano hyperglide chain and cassette
Bud saint brakes is best brakes have better oil system
@@dominikvajcomrd8699 do you are have speak?
I agree, SLX offers the best combination of performance, features and value. I equipped my bike with 7120’s and RT86’s for less than $300.
I have some nice brakes on various bikes - XT, Ultegra, and GRX. But I recently built a flat bar bike to ride on the Katy Trail in Missouri with bottom-end MT201 brakes. They were about $80 for the set. I must say that I’m impressed.
The brakes are fine. I can feel a slight difference from XT, but it’s pretty subtle. They stop and have a nice bite. As an aside, I’m using XT rotors which may help a little; but again, I’m sure it’s a marginal difference at best.
For the money, MT201 brakes are amazing.
👍
I am very happy to land on this video as I was wondering for the past few months if it was worth it to upgrade. I also have the same bike Marin AlpineTrail 7 and have upgrade some components but kept the brake since they are working quite nicely on Enduro/DH. Sounds like I would also need to replace the disk, pads etc if I upgrade the shifter and calipers. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this!
Glad to have helped 👍 that’s what it’s all about
I use the SLX BL-M7100 lever and I love them.
Heck yeah 👍
100% agree with this video. My ebike came with Deore 2-pot (MT-6100) brakes with 180mm rotors front and rear. When I got it everyone was telling me those brakes won't cut it and I'll have to upgrade to higher level 4-pot brakes. I did increase the front rotor to 203mm but kept everything else the same and after 2 full seasons with them they're perfectly fine and I've had no issues with them. I have two other analog bikes (1 hardtail and 1 full suspension) and they both came with 4-pot brakes and although they work well I don't think they're that much better than the Deore 2-pot brakes. I'm cuilding another hardtail and I'm using the same Deore 2-pot brakes on it.
👍
Those brakes are so reliable and trustworthy!
I got some MT-6100 in my urban use hardtail on 160 rotors, i use that bike to fool around on flat urban terrain, commuting to work, and some eventual fast flow trails.
I got those brake like in 2016, they still feel perfectly sharp, never had an issue of any kind, never even had to bleed them.
I imagine that setup (without finned pads, and with small rotors) would suffer overheating if i did what i do on my bigger bike, but still, my rocky mountain altitude has 4 piston xt brakes, and they were way more troublesome. I had them since 2018, and I alredy had to replace a lever because the cheapo plastic servo wave groove self destroyed, and no matter how many times i get them bled, they always need to get pumped to start working at the first use of the day.
Next time i break a lever or something, i'll get MT-6100 levers (and keep my 4 piston calipers)
@@aldomaresca9994 I'm currently building a Ti hardtail and I'm using these brakes. Nothing fancy, they just work.
Reach adjustment is also posible on the 4100 Lever by using a hexwrench, i don't know exactly wich number. An amazing video, thank you!
Thanks for taking time to comment 👍
I've got some Shimano SLX m675 two pistons that I've been riding for some time and have been pretty happy with them. I'm 6'-3" 270# and they bring things to a stop just fine...
Heck yeah 👍
Very useful info
Glad to have helped 👍
I was hoping for you to compare m6100 instead of m4100 brakes. Good content!
Thanks man 👍
The MT401's do work well but I really like the lever feel of the 6100+ models. The XT and XTR's are just overkill. The SLX brakes are a little more convenient to adjust the lever reach at any time without an allen key, but most of us carry a tool on the trail so it's not a major deal. And once it's set, you prob wont touch it again. The fancy 2 piece rotors and finned pads do work, but for me and probably many others, we're not riding hard enough to notice a difference in cooling capacity -- which is totally diff than the brake feel when cool or warm -- that's the bite from the pad and rotor friction. So the M6120 4-pots are my brake of choice now. I picked up mine Deore M6120s as new take-offs for $150.
Heck yeah! I have the 6100s on a bike and really liked those.
I have Shimano mt 501/500 and they brake perfectly! But Servo Wave it's a great invention! feel the difference
👍🏻
Running a fleet of around 20 bikes in a hilly environment with mostly Shimano brakes of all models (mostly mid range) built up over 14 years now.. The perfomance/feel of the more expensive brakes in my experience is minimal especially when you factor the cost of replacing those fancy finned pads. A pretty cheap upgrade is just to go big with rotor size. One downside to a few entry level levers is they're steel and once scuffed rust pretty quick. I've mostly been impressed with Shimanos over Srams though, very easy to work on with some mid range Deores still going strong 12 years down the line when Srams corrode to unusable within five years..
Definitely agree 👍
I like the idea of 4-piston brake, which allows the initial action to use only a half set of the pistons. In theory this can reduce the chance of brake-locking.
4-piston brakes for the win 🥇 I don’t own any XC bikes, so I always prefer 4-piston brakes
That doesn’t happen unless a diffetrential spring and separate pads for each set of pistons is employed, there is just more stiction in 4 piston brakes. The benefit to 4 piston is the pressure zone is wider and covers more of the rotor for heat dissipation.
i'm a mechanic and like you said i couldn't feel the difference either. well i replaced my brake pads with the ice tech ones when my brake pads where bad and they don't fade as quickly. but most people who want xt brakes are buying them because it's the best and they just want the best. doesn't matter if they really need it. in my opinion even the cheap shimano stuff is great nowadays, just look at a deore or slx brakes for example 😊
Deore 4-pistons work amazing
TRP brakes . I'm not spending an arm n leg though . Great review and new subscriber . Appreciate you and looking forward to more content
Thank you! Loving the TRP brakes that I’ve owned.
@@JaredHoff oh nice . So you have some
impressive video!
now i ride myself on quite some expensive stuff, but im in a very privileged position my employer covers for all these kind of cost.
way too often you tube content creators are just advertising for expensive stuff a hell lot of people simply can not afford. and the question is rarely asked, do you need this?
shimano is quality as a brand and basic stuff will do just fine for so many people.
i can not praise you enough for this. lots of people follow blindly youtubers advice!
consider myself a new fan!
Thank you a ton! Comments like this make it all worth it. I always try to be open and honest in my vids. There are definitely a lot of TH-cam channels selling us stuff we don’t really need 👍🏻
%100 Agree ! Did some tests too, the Shimano cheapest felt the same in all ! Just a $$$ grab !
I have always went with shimano deore hydraulic brakes. They were 60€ for front+back pre-bled set! But now I think they are over a 100€. I have always been happy with them. Don't need anything more or anything less.
Heck yeah 👍
thank you! I’m new in the game; I only got my bike this summer because my dog doesn’t like trail runs & I need the massive workout I get from uphills. I fear downhills a lot on a bike, so I watched your review to get confidence in my MT400 😁 I guess they’re similar to 410 right?
Welcome to the MTB family!
I just looked up the shimano MT410 and they seem to be 2 piston brakes. 2 piston brakes are good for most riding. However, 4 piston brakes and larger brake rotors are required for really steep downhills and longer descents. There’s a lot more to cover, but that’s a basic overview.
Shimano makes great base model brakes and they should stop your bike with ease.
Surprised to see your take so far. Am looking forward to seeing how they handle extended use on long downhill runs.
Thanks! I was pretty impressed with them on the short runs I took.
@@JaredHoff Right-on, you’re welcome! I’m sure they’re going to perform just fine and will ultimately show the reality with diminishing return above a certain level. Although, those fins have to do something. Maybe on the warmest of days.
Hi jared. I have a shimano mt200 brakes. And i want change to deore m4100. Is it worth it? Is there much difference? Thank you :)
Dude,, awesome 😃,, thankyou 👍
I got the M8100 levers with the M8120 calipers(4pot) and the icetech pads and discs and they do work, but... I had higher expectations of brake stuff at this pricerange, so I'm going to do a test for the next season and try to improve bite performance especially. I believe the icetech stuff makes your brakes run too cool most of the time, and I at least am not rolling down 10 mile hills all day long. I'm going to try other discs and with new pads as well, and do a full bleed as well.
Another thing I've noticed is I have no more adjustment on both freestroke and the lever adjuster, and I'd still like more, and it's been like this since day one. Hopefully I will get this sorted so I can back that out so I actually have something to adjust for when that need arises.
I haven't had a mtb in years, and I have heard that lots of people say that in recent years Shimano have dialed back on their initial bitepoint and try to aim more to the people who want
more modulation. Personally I've always liked that bite as soon as possible, because brake levers you just pull and pull and pull is something I just feel is a safety hazard and it feels to me like something is wrong. For me at least it is harder to know when something is off with something that are supposed to be that spongy. Just give me a nice bite right off the bat, and I know the brakes are working.
Sorry to hear you’re having those issues. The e-bike I just got has XT brakes with ice tech rotors and pads. It’s been working great. Although, I had to bed the brakes in really good before they started to bite.
Totally agree that modulation just feels spongy, I have xt 2 pot callipers and love the bite, I can hardly pull the lever past the initial bite point which is great...can still modulate but with far less input. No ice tech stuff.
@@AdamBrowne-eg1eb Ice Tech discs are much too soft and also too expensive!
Great info
Thanks man!
Thank you!
Glad to have helped 👍
great vid! can you use different background music? feel like ive heard it so many times!
I’ll definitely change up the background music. Thank you for the feedback
Regular Shimano hydrolic disk brakes work for me.I have them on multiple bikes for years with no problems
Most definitely 👍
bro just enlightened me and my wallet on why not to buy XT when you hai shinano 401 ❤️😂 bro saved my money
Right! ! Can't be clearer than water.
I do agree..!
👍👍👍
one of my bikes has full saint set up…the other has the cheaper 4 piston M420s that i upgraded with SLX servo wave levers at H030 finned pads…the result!
the M420s now perform like the expensive set of Saints, with only $100 spent for the upgrade 👍
Awesome! That’s what it’s all about.
H03A or H03C ? do the pads mount from the top without modification ? i order m420 with SM-RT66, What disc do you use ? Thanks so much !
we have a Marlin 8 gen2 (MT200) , my son and I ride mostly here in the flatlands Coastal NC and its perfect, we have been riding at Beech mountain Ski Resort last 2 years as well when we travel there in summer and rented their Giant trance x2 which the trails and that bike are awesome, we want to ride his next bike next time on the green and blues which will be fine for everything but the brakes we are guessing, looking at upgrading his brakes to the XT while we are spending money , what you think?
I have enjoyed your videos the most of any of the fellas up here, I have learned a lot
We are also looking to step into either EXE or rail for first time electric backs to get more speed and air on trails here in the flatlands, cant decide even with your great cover of both, we might get one of each to see how we like them, seems like they will both hold up very well in the mountains too, and that marlin we are looking to upgrade a bit he can let a friend use when go some is what we are thinking
XT brakes are good. Check out TRP brakes as well. Check out the Trek Fuel EX 7 I got. Comes with TRP Slate brakes, which are the low model 4-Pistons but they work so good.
Hi J, I have just bought a Specialized Turbo Vado SL 4.0 and would like to upgrade the brakes to Deore XT 8100. Bike came with Tektro HD-R290. Would I be able to disconnect the OEM Tektro caliper and brake lever and connect the XT caliper and brake lever to the existing hydraulic hose? Thanks for your thoughts and the readers.
I would check with your local bike shop. They can look that up and help you get the best answer.
I think you should try out the 6120 brakes. Before I went full gravel and sold all my MTBs. my last MTB was a giant fathom I got as a project bike. It came stock with the 4100 brakes and I was honestly impressed with them. I got a take off pair of XTs 4 pot front and 2 rear for cheap and a brand new pair of the at that time redesigned 6120 front and 6100 rear brake set. I was swapping out the the sets and running them mixed and unless I looked down I honestly couldn’t tell the difference as just a average person. Now the 4100 brakes were the older style ones that have the clamp integrated into the brake. I definitely felt more flex in the lever than the XT of 6100. I decided to keep the XTs only because the silver color of the brakes matched the bike better than the 6100. I am about to convert my drop bar gravel bike to a flag bar 650b basically Ridge Xc bike so that point lol, but I am debating between saving the $ and getting the 4120/4100 or get a slightly more expensive but nicer 6120/6100 set. I honestly think the only riders that are going to notice the difference in the top end brakes are racers and extremely fast riders
Good advice 👍
I have mixed all. 6120 with other levers and front xtr disc. but the ice tech discs are too soft and too expensive. gonna mix it up with magura 😃
I have a Shimano Zee front brake (203mm rotor) and an XT 4-piston (180mm rotor) in the back on my mountain bike. I'm really happy with both. I do like both of these brakes better than the stock Shimano ones that came with my bike, but I have to admit that I've not used the most recent lower-end Shimano brakes and maybe they've improved a lot. However, I have bought a few high-end components over the years for my bikes, and some of them are indeed night and day compared to low-end components in terms of quality, durability, and functionality, which help lead to an overall more enjoyable mountain biking experience. Finally, if you are just getting into mountain biking, are young without much money, just looking to save money, or not riding very gnarly terrain, then I think a lot of the cheaper components from well-known companies are the best option. Whatever gets you on the trails!! Stay safe, have fun, and happy trails!
Thanks 👍💯
I am running those 4100 on Hayes rotors 180mm great brake power 😮
Heck yeah 👍🏻 I’ve never tried the Hayes rotors. Metals pads with those?
YES, I thought I was going crazy but the cheap shimano do work way way better than expected and I not only have the basic shimano but Saint, Zee, Sram guide and Hope tech brakes to compare....
I was really surprised as well
Hey Jared, thanks for your informational comparison. I'm currently looking into these longer Shimano brake levers for my setup. I'm hoping they could improve the power modulation of my brakes, and maybe even the max braking force, in comparison with their short-levered brethren. What's your take on that?
I usually run shorter levers. I’m always testing and trying to make videos to help people find what’s best for them.
I definitely wouldn’t replace my short levers with longer ones. But I was really surprised how good these long levers performed.
@JaredHoff
Thanks for you answer! I currently run Magura MT5 calipers with M6100 levers. Those are strong enough, but seriously lack modulation. I got better modulation with Magura 2-finger levers, but broke their plastic body on the first ride in a minor crash. Thats why I'm still going to give the M4100s a try.
I will write a comment how they worked for me afterwards.
The difference in brake touch between MT-401 and XT is mainly made in the brake hose.
Try using BH90 brake hose on MT-401.
Along with XT in terms of rigidity.
Definitely need the high pressure brake line
This video is about MT420, which comes stock with HB90. Just like any other shimano's 4 piston brake.
The cam system of the servo wave lever plays a bigger role when you're going mach chicken and need to really grab the brakes.
My first bike had the M200 series brakes on them and I thought they were plenty powerful. I got a new bike that shipped with the M400 set with two piston calipers and noticed that there was also an increase in braking power, since the 400 series calipers had more surface area on the pistons.
After I got faster, I started braking more purposefully in key locations. I also found that riding steeper trails that required more constant braking took a toll on my fingers. I upgraded to a set of M535 Deore brakes and the difference was night and day. In situations where I was squeezing the living daylights out of the M400 series, I was able to do the same with only a single finger and less pressure.
My current bike has a M6100 levers and with M6120 4-piston caliper up front and an M6100 2-piston caliper in the rear. The 6120 that I installed in the rear originally made it difficult to threshold brake without locking up the rear tire.
Heck yeah! Thanks for the amazing comment. It definitely changes when you ride faster steeper trails and linger descents
@@JaredHoff 100%. I still have my first bike and I still take it out every now and then. The brakes are still good but I do notice that I need to apply more power than on my main bike but it's really only when I'm flying down a trail and need to stop fast.
M420 calipers take the same pads as my Shimano Zees and Saints on my other bikes. Swapped out the levers to M7100 levers to have a simlar feel to my Zees and Saints. Have them equipped on my Trek Rail 7 and to be honest, I don't notice any difference in stopping performance. My wife prefers this setup compared to the zees on her Mega
Awesome info. Thanks man 👍🏻
Hi, did u ever measured the size of the pistons of the 420 ? Are they the same size as the XT ceramic pistons ?
What is important is that you replace the fluid from time to time otherwise the dirt which somehow gets in will wear the seals, especially at the handlebar.
i have the Shimano M401 breaks and the same levers and they do have a tiny screw that is hidden that allows you to adjust the lever reach.
Awesome 🤙
I've ridden both the full XT br m-8020 setup and the lower end mt410 setup same rotor size and same pad compound nothing can even compare or come near to the power of the XT lever and pad setup 👍
Thanks for the feedback. I know XT brakes are amazing. I was just really surprised how good these felt. Shimano does a good job making their entry level components perform well.
@@JaredHoff yeah in terms of entry level components Shimano is the best compared to SRAM and other brands
Slx is identical
@@michaelviglianco6121 the current SLX (br m-7120) is pretty much the same as the current XT (br m-8120) however I was referring to the older more powerful better cooled XT (br m-8020) there are a few differences between between the current SLX and XT sutch as the XT having ceramic pistons but the differences are small
I have identical brakes on 2 of my bikes... The difference in braking power is more than obvious... that's why I ordered slx levers, so I will install them on the MT420. Servo wave provides braking power and the levers without them are at least 40% weaker in my free estimate.
It’s always good to have side-by-side comparisons like that 👍
I have the same brakes spec'd on my 54lbs Alpine Trail E1, works ok on flow trails, not enough power on longer steep dh runs. Do you think its worth it to up to rotor size and thickness then putting metallic pads? Or these brakes are just not suited for emtb?
I don’t think these brakes are suited for E-MTB.
You could try upgrading the brake levers, and getting bigger/better rotors. Ive heard of people using TRP rotors on shimano brakes.
I have the full M8100 XT brakeset and drivetrain, but I thought it was the mid-range, while the M9100 XTR are the highend components.
My M8100 brake set didn't come with cooling fins on the pads btw, but they're aftermarket parts.
I have the 2 piston brakes, but there's an even more powerful version with 4 pistons, but those are a trade-off, because the 4 piston provides less control over the braking action.
The 4 piston version just immediately fully bites into the rotors, making it harder to properly modulate the braking force.
Another thing to consider is the resin pads vs metal pads: resin has a bit less bite, but also wears down less quickly and last longer.
Seems that those XT brakes are much more expensive at your place, Jared.
Because over here in Europe, we pay about 200 euros for left + right set, but without rotors.
The rotors that "belong" to the same set are the MT800, which are about 45 euros each.
So for about 300 euros you have the complete set, with rotors.
However, you likely have to shorten the brake hoses, so you also need tools for that and for bleeding them... that also adds up quickly if you don't already have those tools!
Definitely all adds up. Prices have been dropping though. My Polygon N8E came with XT brakes, IceTech rotors and pads. It’s actually pretty amazing 🤩
@@JaredHoffYeah prices have definitely come down a lot!
I bought my XT components in may 2022 and I still remember the cassette was about 250 bucks, while its half now.
Most other components have lowered like 20~25% in price.
I have the MT420's and am quite happy with them so far. I plan on upgrading rotors to Ice Tech when the stock ones crap out, and am also looking for finned pads that fit the MT420. Any idea if these exist? 😄
@@reallybigphilly I’m not sure if they have any aftermarket pads like that.
i will switch from Cube Action Team with XT Breaks to Touring MTB with MT420 Breaks. Now i think its good for Ebike Touring.
Awesome 👍
Four piston vs two piston is the main issue one should be concerned about . i have two piston on my older model cube and go four piston magura (mt5) on my Nox . the difference in stopping power is huge
For XC riders,,, I’d stick with 2 piston. BUT I’ve never owned an XC bike so 4-piston is what I run.
the cheaper have resin pistons that can melt at high pad temperature instead of transferring the heat to the oil like the ceramic pistons on SLX and higher. also, the m6100 levers are barely more expensive than m4100 but can improve on the M4100 series brakes. the 4 pot calipers for sure runs on BH90, so no problem combinig it with m6100 levers
You said SLX and higher. So I guess the BR-6120 Deore 4 pistons suffer from the same quality issue you mentioned, right?
@@staLkerhuyes, resin pistons don't shatter, but can melt/deform under serious braking conditions when lots of heat is generated
Well, I think I will stick to the cheaper models, since I've never experienced such thing. I just bought a 2009 Commencal Fury and I will sell the crappy Elixirs came with it.
I will keep my old first gen servo wave Deore rear brake, and replace my Alivio BR-M445 with a new BR-M6120 for front. @@JoLe1991
BR-MT520 and MT6120 caliper both have ceramic pistons. MT420 are the only 4 pot Shimano callipers that use resin pistons I think.
It sure makes a difference when you take the long 3mile downhill trail i love near me, my first bike was carrera with them cheap ones and by half way they where cooked had basically stop, now i have carbon nukeproof with m8120 and i can do the run for hours without an issue apart from how fat and old and my slow pedal back up, depends on your level they cheaper brakes are perfect for young boys on budget bikes but if you gonna go hard get the best. Application is key.
Long downhill runs are definitely the real test for brakes 👍
@JaredHoff unfortunately I've not had a chance to see how they work under pressure in my location uk which is closing up on on 30, I don't know if the difference between say our usual 4 - 7 weather would make a difference, never thought of that, some countrys are not much above 0 while some average in the mid 20s.
Perhaps when it comes to the heat brakes hit does a few c matter, it certainly doesn't matter with cars on a track I've cooked my brakes in all temps lol
After one year of useing MT420 - this is the first shimano brake i had that leaks. Maybe piston seals are not good enough for meatalic pads and their heat distribution?! Generally brakes performs well in therms of braking power, but they for sure aren't bomb proof. Would try MT520 if cleaning and lubing will not seal them back.
Thanks for the long term review 👍
Nice video, good music and good content. But, I don’t know where you get those prices at minute 8.35? I live in Germany. I got a set of the 820s front and back with caliper and lever which cost me on sale 279.00 Euros. The 420s brake set is currently selling for about 140.00 Euros front and back. The 410s front and back go for only 42.00 Euros!
Sorry if the prices are off. I usually research at the time of filming but I know prices change.
Kinda agree with all that you said. Except: XT's are much better on long descends (didn't overheat), but you mentioned this as well.
The "enough power" what you felt with the cheaper brakes was because of the much longer brake levers. The "on/off" feeling isn't a real thing (as SRAM lovers tends to say). The modulation should be in your fine motoric movements of your fingers, NOT in your brakes :)
I've used around 17~18 different hydraulic brake models in the past 20 yrs (from Shimano, Avid, Sram, Tektro, Hayes and Formula), and I have to say: the cheaper ones never performed as good as the more expensive ones. I must mention though: I'm a heavier rider, and I love fast descends. Wouldn't like to "kiss a tree" @ 60kph because of a brake that lacks in power.
There’s definitely something to be said about heavier riders and longer descents. I personally prefer the most stopping power I can get. But it’s fun to try out the budget brakes every once in a while and see what they have to offer.
I Run Saints 220/203 MTX Reds 2.5Wt 😎 all depends on the bike and use . I Ride A CF Warden In Vancouver Daily 🙃 buy Good brakes you Like .... setup is key
I need to go ride those trails sometime. I’ve rode trails in Seattle once but haven’t made it that far north.
@@JaredHoff Its Trail Rich Within 20km of my house i have 7 world class areas i can go to 3 on the North shore 4 by my place and Whistler too is 1.5 hrs drive Squamish 1 hr 😎 Life Is Good
I did just replace the MT200 brakes on my new bike with SLX from my old bike. But this video makes me think that the only real difference between Shimano brakes is the external casing while the internals are the same (2-pot & 4-pot are obviously different). On my road bike I'm upgrading from cable disc to hydraulic & bought the wrong mount (flat instead of post). This looks like I can probably now use the MT200 callipers with my Tiagra levers. That will save me some cash.
Budget brake (I have a Deore) with the right maintenance (clean oil, center disk, clean pads & disk) you have more than enough for most average even good riders. Now you still can have better for sure, but the price difference often doesn't reflect the improvement...
Remember adverts are make for you to spend money and Pro riders are the advert...
Deore is a great option
this is currently my conundrum, I'm running MT200s and I'm thinking of upgrading to either MT501s or M6100s. My thing is, they are both 2-piston brakes, and both levers look almost exactly the same but the MT501s are about $30-$40 cheaper each. I honestly have no problem with the stopping power of the MT200s, I just don't like the lever design. I could just replace the MT200 levers with MT501 levers but then I'm spending around $90 just for both the levers, so I may as well just spend a little bit more and buy a whole new brake.
I think sometimes when it comes to upgrades, there’s a common sense approach that tells you that it’s a waste of money to spend extra money on something that you don’t really need. But you also have to take into account the fact that those little upgrades does little things you do to your bike to really make you love your bike. I mean those are important too and really I’ve done some upgrades that people think are a waste of money, but I don’t regret it at all because I’m stoked on the way my bike looks and how it performs.
my iphone 14 works well, but I prefer the the iPhone 14 pro max looks better 😂
I have mt200 on my XC carbon bike installed and it doesn't need much power because the tire is very slim and the capability of descending is also limited to slower speeds so it works perfectly, however, on my Enduro 29er I run SRAM Code and i think i wouldn't want anything less powerful so every brake belongs to different riding style, happy riding from Poland!
Thanks for reaching out from Poland 🇵🇱 👍
Didnt know the m410 (non series) can be paired with the series. Im on deore 2 pots now,love the lever feel but not enough power on caliper. Guess now i just have to swap the caliper to using the m410. Whats your opinion?
Just check the brake hose and make sure it’s the BH-90 high pressure hose and you should be good to go.
4:30 low boiling point mineral oil phenomenon .This is why Magura and SRAM or Juin - Tech use DOT 4 or 5 brake fluid as it has twice the boiling temperature of mineral oil therefore less fade .
$4600 Anthem Advanced spec'd with 4100 brakes. That's XT level price, but I guess I'll try the 4100s out when that bike is built today.
Curious about weight comparison?
🤔 not sure on weight. The levels on the 4100s should be lighter, but probably not the calipers. Although it’s a few grams probably
My favorite thing about xt brakes is how expensive they are, how they start to leak after a few hard rides, and how you have to buy new ones because shimano won’t sell you just a lever or a rebuild kit.
Oh man 😬 that’s not good
But true
I had a 2020 trek fuel ex 9.7 equipped with the mt4100 levers, I was convinced to swap levers to the mt8100, the feel was not even close to the same, mt8100 was so much worse, couldn't bleed them enough to get enough bite back, worst swap I'd ever done, also I was working at a shop that had access to shimano parts and got a good discount, but it ruined how my bike felt
Oh man! That sucks to try and upgrade and not like it. Thanks for sharing 👍🏻
M4100 on chain reaction £16.99 at moment which is fairly amazing
Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t the 4100s still have a reach adjustment? You just use a small wrench instead of the knob on the XT
They did t have reach adjustment, but I never needed it.
as a casual cyclist i don't usually spend more money to a over kill bike parts that doesn't match my riding style. But this shimano deore m4100 brakes is really good choice since shimano mt200 is prone to rust.
Definitely 👍
I run Shimano Zee and and extremally pleased, i have run XT but Zee are just as good.....better with the right bleed and rota size, brakes as with most things with MTB way over priced for people who just love to ride. Think they take advantage of people and social media do not help.
I’ve seen Seth review those Zee brakes and heard good things. People are definitely buying stuff that’s more expensive than they need.
Even you the set-up of the comparison is not ideal you have followed some proper "guidelines".
Same bike, same rider and I'm assuming same trail thus reducing the "noise" from other experimental variables.
And of course you used actual "mid-range" brakes instead of the really shitty ones other comparison videos use.
In all honesty nicely done.
Edit: You earned yourself a subscriber.
Thank you for subscribing and for the awesome feedback 👍🏻
So if you run a sram gx group set can you still slap shimano ice tech rotors and Xt brake levers a calipers?or would would Magura mt trail sport brakes be better?
I‘be never tried Magura, but heard good things about them.
... and XT* brake levers and calipers? Or* would* Magura MT (...) be better?
Not to mention - when the servo wave cracks inside the XT levers, you can't buy just the servo wave piece to replace the cracked one.... You have to buy a new lever. for that reason alone, I'd buy the 420's.
My Orbea rise H30 has 2 pistón brakes and they perform as a beauty!!! ( e-bike by the way)
Wow! 2-Piston on an e-bike is surprising. I only run 4 piston brakes on my bikes.
I noticed with the brakes with servo wave the lever felt like when opening a locking pliers, it just snaps! I hate that feeling.
There’s definitely some personal preference. So many people love the modulation of SRAM. But I feel that that modulation causes more arm pump on long bike park downhill runs. But totally a personal preference 👍🏻
Когда покупал велосипед, тоже думал менять тормоза, но как оказалось и бюджетная модель справляется хорошо. Мой вес около 60кг, возможно ездоку с весом под 90кг и их перестанет хватать.
I'm using the mt/bl400's and a complete set cost me around 70 euro, incl rotors. Even those are good enough for 90% of the ppl here, but we don't have real downhill stuff. Mainly flat trails and a few hills cause yeah..The Netherlands
Heck yeah 👍
I wonder if it depends on where you go. Sometimes I go down a serpentswinging road, declining 8% for 5 km. I guess that is a road where brake quality makes a difference. When I go to work, 17 km, there are no big declines and all decent brakes are good enough.
Definitely 👍
best choice will be mt520, as i know it has same pistons diameter in caliper as 6120 and higher (420 has smaller pistons), it comes with short lever servowave handles as higher models does. you can also install icetech pads in 520 caliper. and it is well known that free stroke feature doesn`t actually work on shimano handles so you wount miss much without it.
👍
Bike industry is filled with things that give little benefits if any at high cost. I ride with my shimano mt200, didn't had any reason to switch to something fancy because these work amazing.
👍
may I ask - how much do you weigh? I have found them not powerful enough for me (110kg me + bike)
currently on M6000 2 pots. Is it worth it and much different if I change to M6120 4 pots?
@@yudhaasukma 4 pots makes a bike difference for steep, long downhill runs. But not needed for XC riding