What is your "dork disc" actually for? What happens if you remove it?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มิ.ย. 2022
- What's that little plastic plate behind the cassette of your mountain bike or for that matter, ANY bike? Known colloquially as the "dork disc", spoke guards are supposed to protect your spokes and stop your chain from getting wrapped up in your wheel during a drivetrain failure.
The counter argument for a spoke guard is that it's a cheap flimsy piece of plastic that will inevitably break loose and make noise.
Is it worth it? Today, we'll try to find out!
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One time my derailleur wasn’t adjusted well, and my chain fell into my spokes. I thought, “perhaps I shouldn’t have removed my dork disk?” Then I snapped out of it and remembered that I’m no dork! Haven’t looked back since! Stay classy my mtb brethren
That happened to me once, but my bike never came with a dork disc or just the bike shop removed it.
I think the only way that the deriuler goes into the wheel is when tourqe is applied through the pedals
I bought a 1x12 second hand bike I don't even make it home I shifted within 20 secs of getting on the bike and the deriuler wmet right into the wheel. Worst feeling ever!
Earlier last week my derailleur overshifted into my wheel, bent 2 spokes, shattered a derailleur and broke the chain with a spoke
Same bro
I found this one out the hard way one day. About 200m into a ride down the road on my mountain bike, my chain was thrown into the spokes and I got the result I think you were trying to recreate. I was rolling downhill at a fairly high speed so there was a lot of energy at play -- it was violent.
The wheel basically exploded. Three spokes got torn out of the rim and pushed across into spokes on the other side, bending those and pulling them out of the rim as well. The wheel buckled, jammed in my chainstay and that was all she wrote.
Still don't ride with a dork disc.
Same here, even though I didn't go fast at all.
Some derailleurs have too much slop. See my comment waaaayyyy below. Properly adjusted quality components shouldn’t need one, but I wouldn’t trust most bike shops to adjust them correctly.
Dito for me, was just on the road and the chain cut through 3 spokes which blocked the whole wheel. I always get one if I get a new cassete and break it out after a few months.
@@hawkanonymous2610 so you don't ride with one?
@@ElevatedVehicles I rid with one for the first 3-6 months and then I remove it ^^
As others have noted this is called a "spoke protector" in official vernacular. You should post an update with a look at what happened to the spokes on the Diamondback. As a former mechanic, I've seen many wheel failures due this kind of damage. Even minor nicks will cause failure due to the high tension spokes are under (think cutting a loose string with a knife vs tight string)
I agree. The focus seems to be the transmission rather than destroying the wheel. Spokes are important?
@@brokenrecord3523 Most bicycles sold in US are ridden less than 300 miles by the first owner and show up on the used market between 2 and 20 years later with original tyres.
@@vibratingstring so?
@@moto_rad wasn't it interesting you think ?
Stops/slows repeat damage
HI Seth, the biggest factor in having a catastrophic chain suck event is how the direction of the outward bound spokes on the back wheel are pointing. If the outward bound spokes are going forward it will cause the chain to bounce and not get sucked in. If the outward spokes are directed backwards, they will actually pull the chain in deeper. A wise bike mechanic, wheel building wizard told me the secret!
Wow that makes great sense
This can be an issue with the chain ring(s) up front as well. Whenever I've had a chain-drop with my bikes, it's always happened that the chain falls from the smallest chain ring and gouges up the bottom bracket shell. The chain also bunches up.
Excellent point, I recently have built my first ever bike wheel and I'm pretty sure the outside spokes are spinned in the direction of the cassette, I wanted the outside spokes to take on the chain torque, so it means if the chain goes of the spoke inclination will try to push it away from the hub
@@Josecito777 There is nothing inherently better about outside spokes taking torque--the chain rejection aspect mentioned above is of value though.
@@vibratingstring Yeah, I only mentioned that my outside spokes are twisted in the direction the wheel turns when going forward. So if the chain somehow goes off the cassette it doesn't pull in the hub. It didn't intend to lace the spokes that way for that reason, but it's a nice side effect
I believe it the cheap plastic that makes this “dorky”. this is a great opportunity to have this item made in aluminum, engineered to be light weight, and anodized black, etc.
AGREED.
I think adding some color or pattern to that dorky is enough. Aluminum is cool but plastic is good for adsorb force though
soon to be carbon and titanium dork discs!
Or even just nicer plastic, not this cheap wimpy transparent stuff that looks like leftover packing material
@@bacon.cheesecake if it didn't yellow and basically crumble to bits after a month or two anyway under riding conditions I might keep it, but if I was offered one that matched an oil slick cassette or bronzed or something I would probably use it.
Leave the dork disc on if it's a bike for a client! For you, your friend, your family it's good to take off. If you're in a workplace setting don't take off the disc! You're liable for removing safety equipment. I have that shirt 😉
Shop I used to work at also wasnt allowed to remove reflectors or the bell as the law required them on new bikes
Absolutely
No take all that stupid shit off
When I had my bike tires replaced/bought a new seat I asked the tech if he would ditch the dork disk for me (he chuckled as he snapped it off). This is a 30 year old road bike I bought second hand - was amazed it was still even there.
@@danp2509 Shop I worked at would take the reflectors off the bike and then charge the customer to buy them.
Yup...
Hi ! Bike tech here. The dork disc is mainly there to protect the spokes from the chain, but it wont prevent to derailleur to be sucked up in the wheel. Also the main reason the derailleur gets sucked up in the wheel isnt a badly adjusted Low limit screw, its a bent hanger. A bent hanger will put the lowest point of the cage a lot closer to the spokes and when you shift into low gears to cage is getting caught by the spokes way before the chain can go over the cassette. In this situation, the dork disc is completely useless, this is why we so often remove it.
All I’m getting from this is that a $150 Huffy is more stable than the $1,000+ bike.
It's actually called a spoke protector, with good reason. A bike shop took the one off my MTB years ago and were adamant that they would never refit a "dork disk". I regretted that last year when I was bike packing a 1200km off-road trail over 3 weeks. The bike took a hammering each day, the limits went out of adjustment, and a couple of times the chain got stuck between the spokes and cassette. There was no catastrophic failure like you were trying to create, but each time there was some damage to the spokes. Eventually some damaged spokes started breaking. I had spares but very difficult to fix on the trail, over 50km from the nearest bike shop over rough trail. Will now always have the "spoke protector" fitted.
Tbh if your going to do a 1200km trip you can use any protection u can get. But that in no way stands as a testimony to your regular mtb'er. I'm sure you prefer mechanical disk brakes over hydraulic as they are much easier to fix along the way..
lets not compare slalom gear to alpine gear.... 😅
And as a dork-disc is generally seen as a hallmark to cheap crap I cant blame any self respecting mtb'er for hating them!
Ps: im a bicycle mechanic
@@martijnt1353 to be fair if there was a lightweight metal or high quality polymer one alot more people would use them as if it can prevent wear and save money in the long run then why not use it
similar experience!
@@Sam-wx1oj they are made of polycarbonate, it may look flimsy but it's incredibly durable material.. properly installed one don't typically fails
I hope you dont think the content producer here, isn't aware of what the name of this part is.
In fact, it would take a diagram of any bike, to know what the part is called of which if he really didn't know, would have done.
Everyone knows what its called, he was letting us know its called a dork disc within the industry
Usually you are pedaling up a hill, sometimes pretty hard, when you shift the chain off the cassette looking for a lower gear. Without the dork disk this can wedge the chain pretty far into spokes and even the hub. Then it can be very difficult to remove the chain and it can damage the spokes. This is a pretty different scenario than your experiment demonstrates. I think the purpose of the dork disk is to lessen spoke damage if this happens.
A couple additional grams of brain material would give bike manufacturers the idea of keeping the chain on regardless of what happens by simply adding what I will describe as a super low gear except without teeth as a way to refuse derailing off the rear cassette. I estimate a very low increase of production price with a no brainer along these lines.
If you drop your chain into the spokes while hunting for a gear, that's a limit screw issue, or your hanger isn't properly aligned.
Pretty easy to stop quick and dismount to fix if one is climbing, and has an ounce of wherewithal.
@@echeese63 it’s both but in a shit bike owned by a kid, it’s likely that it will be dropped on the drive side. Same reason shit bikes have a guard around the derailleur
@@laserbrain7774 Lol, sounds like you don't know what a climb actually is.
This is how I broke my first bike back in the 90s. My derailer went into the spokes so violently that it actually bent the frame at the attachment point. My limits were not even out of whack! I was a Junior bike mechanic at a local shop at the time, and all the wise older mechanics shook their heads when I showed up without a dork disk on my GT Avalanche. They said I should spend the $7 for a new one, but I was way too cool for that. A week later I was late to work because the rear derailer went into the spokes and turned into a pretzel. 17 year old me learned an important lessons that day, and the wise older mechanics got a good laugh watching the last few hundred feet of my walk of shame.
I noticed the slightly bent axle on my rear wheel causes the cassette to wobble, and the derailleur/cog alignment would oscillate as a result. I wonder if thats what happened to you.
Those older and supposedly wiser mechanics victimized you. After seeing that you would not do what they suggested, one most likely did something to your bike to supposedly teach you a lesson. Why do I think this? Because your description of how things happen indicate that it was only a week after they told you to buy and install a dork disc. That accident you had a week later was most likely set up to cause exactly what you experienced.
I've been building my own wheels since about '03. The disc is something I wish someone had improved. When you're building a wheel with ~$4 spokes, it's nice to know that something is there to protect your investment from a poor tuneup.
Took off my "dork disk" immediately after buying my trek emonda. Then I wrapped my chain. I was on a big descent and traveling fast. Did a little backpedal to line up for an upcoming curve and my right heel must have pushed the chain off the cassette and into the spokes. It locked up the back wheel and wedged the chain so badly I had to have somebody drive out to rescue me. Skidded the tire off almost completely. I didn't lay it down on the pavement but I got lucky. No derailer damage. I have a picture of the ~100 foot line of rubber left on the pavement. The disk went back on. I don't give a s**t what others say now - it's my bike, my wallet, and my skin!
True, it's a 1 in 1,000 situation, but totally devastating if the dice line up
Skin is over rated
Why are you on the lightest gear on a descend
Key word in this whole statement is skin !!!!! Leaving skin on the ground is never fun. Ride with a .40 cent piece of plastic or spread 3 to 6 weeks letting skin grow back. My vote is for the plastic.
@@MrFlyingKitty Exactly
The test needs to be done with the chain under a lot higher load. I had my chain dump behind the cassette on a moderate climb and the chain jammed hard, putting gouges in the spokes in the process. The bike had to be carried home only for the chain to easily come off once the thru axle was loosened. The freehub body had come loose from the main hub, causing the indexing to get out of whack.
That's the one time I destroyed my derailer.
Driving up-hill, putting a lot of force into the pedals.
Same happend to me even when I had the dorkdisc on. The wheel locked up completly but I could pull the chain out.
@@Jehty_ the time i destroyed my deraileur was when i used AliExpress rollers... really bad idea don't do it.
My sapin spokes got gouged and very bent from the chain over shifting
I’d pay to see Seth simulate this scenario on wifeys treadmill
I've had a Nishiki Olympic 12 since 1987 (high-school graduation present from my parents), rode it 40+ miles a day, 5‐6 days a week for 25 years with 200+ mile trips every few months (less today, as I'm in my 50s, but I still ride). I've repainted it and put new wheels on it several times, gone through dozens if not more than a hundred sets of tires, and replaced many of the other components. But the dork disk is still in one piece. I suspected its purpose was that explained in this video, but in all that time, I was never certain.
i really like how true and natural you are, this video looked complicated for you to do but in a way its still helpful for beginners like me. love your content
Keep it on because it protects your spokes from your chain
It needs to become a fashion part so that everyone wants to have one installed :)
Gotta make one out of carbon fiber or even kevlar and rename it to "superfancydorkdisc"! 🤓
Yes that does need to happen because on some older bikes I have they have started to become yellow like how a lot of cheap plastic does
@@Firious421 Which is, at least in my opinion, the main reason why those get removed in the first place. Those plastic disc just don't look attractive once they get older.
right? just make it less shit and people won't want to remove it..
Literally lol.
@@jed-henrywitkowski6470 😁
I think what really happened is in both simulations with the dork disk off was, as your weight was not actually on the bike, that did not force the wheel to continue spinning and causing damage.
If you pay attention around 7:30, the wheel locks itself but in reality that would hardly be the case.
Had this happen with and without the disc thought on multiple bicycles and it's only a minor inconvenience. Your weight can actually slow the bike down too if you're not going downhill so it really depends on the situation. What he really should've done is add more controlled variables to the experiment ie. while pedaling, while not pedaling, different speeds, different weights
I leave my dork disc on because I love seeing the looks of disgust from my fellow riders.
Great video, I hated explaining to people why I have to put this on every new bike, just to take it off when they're sold...
I worked mechanic, and I'd say these are unnecessary in most bikes, other then very low end ones.
in very low end system, the derailleurs have so much give, they can easily be bumped or forced and get the chain between the cassette and wheel..
but there's usually a big enough gap, that the plastic might help a bit.
But I think the biggest problem is that, this plastic thing usually brakes apart and is just wiggling there after a couple of months.
which is where it tends to get caught the most in my experience.
The wheel is one of the most expensive parts to replace on a bike, so I really feel like even if it's just protecting your spokes from grinding against the chain, it still pays for itself.
well thats because a wheel has so many parts on it? spokes, rim, chain, cassette/freewheel, derailleur, tire, tube, brake? although a rear wheel would be more expensive than a front wheel so maybe you should have clarified that part too
What I think is that I want to see premium versions of these disks, something presentable for a good bike, maybe some anodized aluminum or something
Like decades ago when bikes came with chrome disks behind the cassettes, they just looked good and complimented the bikes, instead of being an ugly piece of plastic
Yeah pretty sure DH racers use what you're talking about
They have them. Alta Spoke Protector 7 1/2" Freewheel Chrome on Amazon for $10.00. I've got one on every on of the bikes I ride.
I have several old 27" wheelsets with aluminum discs behind the freewheel
They should ideally be a part of the cassette.
Edit: Something like the Sram X01 DH MINI BLOCK cassette.
Not sure what it is, but I love your presentation. And love your self-deprecating humor.
Awesome presentation...im now commencing to intall all 15 dork disks on my bike collection..thanks for the awesome content and the heads up
I'll say this: "If it ain't broken don't fix it".Meaning that it's there for a reason.From my experience it is very usefull,and practical.
That reason being to deflect liability in the case of a serious accident that relates to the cassette
...and the corrolary to your statement is "...if it ain't broke, fix it until it is!" 😅
I think it's only a legal requirement in the US (and maybe EU?) - every "good" bike I've bought in the UK hasn't come with a dork disc, which includes Shimano Deore and SRAM Eagle.
My Girlfriend's Trek Marlin came with one, but came off pretty easy with some cutters :D
What are you doing here Matt? Go back to kerbin!
Wasn't expecting to see you here for some reason. Lol
Canyon Endurace also comes with it
Oh hi matt
If it was a legal requirement in the EU most likely you would have seen it in the UK as well.
It's not like you guys have left sooo long ago.
Very nicely put together video and very entertaining as well. Thanks for posting this.
Well, I felt on my skin the importance of a dork disk. It happened when I shifted up a gear at the wrong time while climbing a pretty big hill. The chain get stucked that bad it took me more than one hour to unstuck it and be back on track. I had no tools on me and all I could use was some sticks and my bare hands.
That happened 20km away from nearest city and at Some point I considered calling one friend to come and pick me up with the car. So yes, in some situation a dork disc can make a huge difference
But you have absolutely no idea if the disc would have prevented the problem you had. That is what this conversation is all about...whether or not it actually works.
you can experience spoke damage, I had a chain slip over on an eagle drivetrain on a punchy climb. Upon inspection by removing the cassette I found a few bent and scarred spokes, I rode for about a year before one of the spokes finally broke. I still don't use dork disks; but there is real risks.
My worst damage from this has been from climbing. Going for that extra gear when the hanger is bent and you don't know it. I'm guessing it has to do with you putting power into the chain and it rips the spokes up worse than on a downhill when the wheel and freehub can keep moving.
I also had my chain slip in to the spokes a few times and when i changed spokes like 6 months later i noticed half of my spokes practically been cut in half so yeah there's a real danger but that also was with a cheap drivetrain.
A year before a spoke broke. And you somehow connect that to a missing piece of plastic?
@@noneofyourbusiness4294 yes, bent and damaged spokes are more likely to break in time than straight and undamaged spokes.(just a wild assumption)
@@RJ_Groot obviously damaged spokes are the ones to go first.
However, spokes break all the time. A flimsy piece of plastic doesn't prevent that from happening.
The most common thing to break spokes, without you doing anything wrong, is uneven tension, which puts a lot of stress on one section of the wheel, which is exactly where spokes break.
Once one spoke breaks, there's another shift in tension, another breaks, and another, and another.
The damage your spokes take from debris flying at them is next to irrelevant. Think about it. You're putting multiples of your own weight on your wheel during a drop. If debris actually was an issue, you'd see spokes break around the middle. Instead spokes break where there is the most stress- the points where they connect to the wheel and the hub.
When I raced BMX in the 90's, we all used to run metal dork discs to help amplify the sound of the freewheel
Thanks for trying to show us, I also had a very bad time on a downhill as a kid... I had to change my rear derailleur, but not because of the indicident. It was because I was a dumb kid and used my bike as trash. But I got a considerable amount of damage to remember the accident and to respect my bike and treat her properly...
I’ve been riding for a long time, since 1990. I had an incident like you, however the dork disk had a split in it and the chain got sucked up and damaged the derailleur. This was the only time that happened to me, but the circumstances seem to be similar, lots of speed and a very bumpy trail.
I can remember multiple occasions when the chain fell into the spokes and caused catastrophic failure on my bike. Multiple derailleurs were trashed, several wheel spokes broken on different occasions, and once, the chain got caught and bent in half, rendering it as well as the derailleur junk. Maybe it looks dorky, but it beats breaking down during a ride and having to do repairs.
And the real question is...Who gives a rats ass what other people think? I take them off of my bikes but not because of peer pressure but because I've had several occasions where crap got stuck. That being said, I have never criticized someone for having one. People put too much emphasis on what others think of us. I ride with a backpack and flats. Lots of people think I'm a dork. I guess I'm a dork.
Or just maintain your bike properly.
I just totally forgot about the thing until now, as I didn't bothered ripping it off. I suppose it's different when you are just racing on pavement versus mtb'ing but I never noticed the thing being there at all. Guess, in the end, I'll just forget about it again after a few hours, and just leave it there.
I wish the dork discs on all bikes were more like the Huffy's (have to take the cassette off to remove it). Just got a new stumpjumper and the one on there just clips onto the spokes, trying to come off by itself.
What would you say if it was made out of carbon fiber or ceramic and came in different cokor and could have custom design on them?
This happened to me only once in two decades. Destroyed my road bike rear wheel. Bought a replacement wheel set. Tried to sell the old front wheel. Found a lot of front wheels on sale on eBay, but not rear wheels. Then I realized this problem was more common than I expected!
Or maybe they were just stolen front wheels. Usually the rear wheel is secured. XD
Just re-spoke the rear wheel, it's not that hard. Or have someone professional do it, its not that expensive.
@@aggese methinks the wheel also needs to be recentered after that kind of damage... I'd totally buy a replacement too in such scenario 😅
@@MarcelaElviraTimis absolutely, but by removing and replacing the spokes you remove all centering so re-centering is just part of the re-spoking the wheel.
Sure you might have to replace the rim too but those aren't that expensive nether is having someone do the work for you and damaging the hub is rather hard
@@aggese that's my point. That little plastic thingy greatly reduces the need to respoke your bike, with the added need to center the damn wheel. I mean, at least in my experience
My Target $160 Schwinn bike's rear derailer snapped at the neck, and the broke off majority of the derailer caught in the spokes and braked the rear wheel. In the process the plastic dork disc was shattered. I fixed the bike by installing a new Rear Derailer. No damage to the wheel. Bike works great with just replacing the rear derailer. I did not replace the dork disc though.
the high and low adjust screws are there for the limits for a proper adjustment so the chain doesn't fly off the sprokets
I've had the chain come off that way before and tbh the worst part that would have been remedied by having a dork disc was getting the chain back out so I could pedal again. Without one, depending on the design of your cassette, it can get jammed in there is a way that is difficult to pull back out (and makes you wonder how it got there in the first place)
You are tottaly right I have a sram nx eagle 12 speed (gonna change it to a X01) and my chain did pop off between the cassete and spokes it was a PAIN to get it out I still dont understand how it got so caught up in there.
One of my first rides on my brand new $4200 mountain bike, this happened. I was on a steep, granny ring climb, the chain jumped between the cassette and spokes and turned the derailleur into a pretzel in about 0.5 seconds. It was so wound up in there I couldn't get it loose by hand. So, with the multi-tool, I started loosening every little bolt on the rear der. Turns out, one of the pulleys had so much tension on it, that once it was loose enough, a couple parts let loose with such velocity, that it sounded like bullets tearing through the leaves and branches in the woods. If it had hit me, hospital trip for sure. Anyway, the spokes were a bit nicked, but still worked, I had to buy a new der. and I avoided losing an eye, so a 'fun' and 'educational' experience.
So the dork disc saved you?
@@rumblingend8443 Maybe next time.
Great video and appreciate the work you put into it. Have you or will you do one on the front chain ring leg saver?
I love the dog's reaction in the background of the last test haha!
As other commentators have said, that “dork disc” is a spoke protector. The chain can be much harder metal than the spokes. An adult riding over rough ground can put a lot of force through the drive train. When the chain goes between the cassette and the spokes it can cut into the spokes like a saw. That can severely weaken the spokes, leading to the whole wheel eventually failing. That little disc is there to take the hit so that the wheel doesn’t get destroyed.
So you think that a thin piece of plastic is stronger than the material the spokes are made out of?
@@JaspreetSingh-fo2qe That's not what he's saying and it's not how it works. The disk attached to the wheel and spins with the spokes... if anything it needs to be stronger than the chain material. In any respect, the plastic could be sacrificial.
@@har234908234 I bet that plastic will only help to prevent scratches from the spokes. If the forces are anything near to where the spokes would have broken without it, then it will not help even a tiny bit.
I can see a metal one to be quite a lot more functional but definitely not the plastic one.
@@JaspreetSingh-fo2qe I don't think it likely on a well setup bike. The event I imagine where the chain hops over the top of the block would have the rear derailleur bashing against the spokes! To your point. He was talking about chain plates banging against spokes... If it happens on a pedal stroke, the plastic needs to last one pedal stroke (and probably not a long geared one at that). You're getting off your bike to fix it before the second stroke! If it happens when you're going downhill at 60kph it's worth remembering that while the tire circumference of the wheel is going 60kph, closer to the axle the linear velocity where the chain would meet the plastic is much lower. At 10cm from the axle that could be around 2kmh? The chain is 'sliding' against the plastic, not clattering against spokes. The damage you're looking to avoid is the start of a fatigue failure, not an instantaneous catastrophic failure. I think this is a kids bike problem... where the setup may be 'altered' without expertise.
@@JaspreetSingh-fo2qe I bought my first bike (well, since I was a kid) a few years ago and had no idea what was what. I knew I had to adjust the rear derailleur... but I did it wrong. And still being a noob, I was in the granny gear a lot all the time - the one closest to the spokes. On more than one occasion the chain slipped and wedged up against the disc. I remember thinking "wow, I'm glad that little plastic disc was there, how about that..."
But as for plastic being weaker than metal - the plastic has much great *surface area* than a single spoke. That force is distributed much more evenly - that's how it can function as it does. It also stops the chain getting tangled in the spoke. If spokes were *that* strong, we'd have four of them per wheel, not dozens.
If some weirdo is paying that close attention to my bike and cares about a little plastic disc, then I assume they're just a creep with a tiny pecker, since it's the sort of thing that turns cycling into a dick measuring competition. Just like a lot of other stuff. I don't care if I have a bike with it on, especially since I've seen them work.
i actually want to get a metal dork disc, that way pieces of it don't break off when it gets old and brittle
spoke protectors that were used on vintage bikes, the chrome ones, looked really awesome and often came with cool designs like logos punched into them or fancy patterns
this was before everything was plastic and people made sure that every bike component made the bike look good
in my opinion, no amount of ''coolness'' is worth risking crashing or destroying a bike over, especially for something as trivial as a round disc
I've definitely owned bikes with a metal “dork disk“. Most of the bikes I have ever bought, were ~40 yr old bikes I paid $20 for.
They don’t make ‘em like they used to..
You are the epitomy of Dork 😂
In the Netherlands they have them.
My last two Downhill bikes had metal ones, which also did not connect to the spokes, but the cassette directly.
One thing I've learned from repairing is that most the time I see issues is when the derailleur hanger is bend in and no dork disc, try bending in the derailleur hanger on the cheap bike and then try your experiment might have the outcome your looking for!
Today I learned that my wife’s bike needed a dork disc 2 months ago. The derailleur was sucked up into the spokes and we couldn’t figure out why. Thanks for this video!
“It can be melted down into aluminum wheel chairs, cans, and lawn darts” amazing how he never wastes materials
I completely lost it when he said that
The tyres would make good fuel for a traditional stove
There are kids who might never have such a nice bike. Hopefully he is joking.
@@Ferrari255GTO pollution
@@RedFrost6 i was joking dude
Last week I managed to rip off the derailleur including the hanger in a split second. It was freshly build up for the showroom in the store.
1. You have to ride, your weight gives the forward momentum.
2. You need to have a wide range derailleur with a long cage… actually a dork disc wouldn’t help in this scenario, because it’s the bottom part of the cage that catches a spoke… 👍
Props for publishing the video despite inconclusive results!
Pro tip:
If you want to strap your bike to a treadmill, consider tying it down like you would a motorcycle in the bed of a pickup. The concept is exactly the same. Tie it down by the handlebar, one strap for each side of the bike, and completely independent of each other. Do the same for the rear of the bike, but because it doesn't pivot like the fork, you can use one long strap and the bike won't move. The problem arose from tying the bike down behind the pivot point, which allowed the handlebar, fork, and wheel/tire assembly to wobble.
I never really thought about removing them. It's clear plastic, it isn't in the way of or bothering anything or anybody, so why waste the time it would take to remove it? Yeah, it looks like MAYBE, if one was unfamiliar with how to remove their rear wheel and how to access the disc without cutting it up, it MIGHT take as much as 10 minutes, but in reality, probably closer to five. It wouldn't really be all that difficult to remove. I don't know, whatever floats one's boat I suppose. As it ages, and being clear plastic, it's going to haze over and get dirty and scratched, but the rest of the bike's finish is going to get dirty, scratched, greasy , chipped, etc. I don't remove the chainguard from the front either, but as ugly as they were, we all used to remove our chainguard from our bikes because they really were dorky. Once they were off, we used to mangle and twist them so they couldn't be put back on by our fathers when they got pissed at us for taking them off. But the kinds of guards they have now, I don't mind them in the least.
Same reason I removed the air dam under my truck. I don't care about MPG, I care about looks.
Great video. In my experience(manhattan bike shop), the most common thing that tangles up rear derailleurs is debris/obstruction: most commonly the lowly street curb. I have literally 0 experience with the MTB market, but the shop I work at in NYC replaces 3 or 4 rear mechs/hangers a month from the pushed-into-the-spokes type catastrophe.
The dork disk is often present and intact for such jobs.
If the chain drops behind the cassette under tension, (i.e. on a steep climb when you really wish you had one lower gear) it can really thrash the spokes right where they insert into the hub. It weakens the spokes at the point where they normally break. Nothing catastrophic has ever happened to me, but I've ended up rebuilding several wheels because of it when a spoke or two broke sometime down the road. I had more trouble with the old 3x9 setups, where the cassette was smaller. Modern larger cassettes tend to have clearance between the cassette spider and hub that wasn't there on the older, smaller cassettes with full steel cogs. I've seen a few jammed tight enough that they were very difficult to get free, but only when the chain was pulled in by someone standing on the pedals.
This is exactly what happened to me - But with a brand new bike (first time riding it), dropped to the easiest gear, limit screw wasn't set properly, chain got sucked into the wheel, snapped the chain. And this was with a dork disc
Snapped 3 spokes when this happened to me a few months after pulling a broken disc off the bike. Had previously set and tested inside limit screw but either the derailleur was realigned or the set screw backed off while riding because it hadn't been glued in place.
Exactly. The DD wouldn’t be useful on fast descents but on slow climbs where the chain is under a lot of tension.
Agree, I've definitely trashed some spokes from this happening.
This.
Be 8, bend dropout, overshift on a hill, use dork disc.
Be adult, bend dropout, fix dropout.
Be adult, overshift, stop pedaling.
I worked at a bike rental, and between the thousands of bikes I had to maintain there, and the thousands of miles I've personally covered, I have seen broken spokes, shattered derailleurs, and chains so badly bound between the rear hub and cluster that they could not be retrieved without removing the cluster. Whether those incidents included the plastic disc or not, I cannot say. My head mechanic had a habit of ripping them off whenever they became even slightly damaged, so I'm sure many of those failures occurred when discs were absent.
Those plastic discs crumble apart after a month or two can't even stop a chain
@@infernaldaedra Not true. Old plastics suffered UV damage. New ones don't. Hasn't been that way in 20 years.
Also they're not designed to take the force of the chain. They deflect it. Big difference.
Might be a good idea on front wheel drive recumbent bikes such as a Cruzbike. I rarely use the largest cog, so haven't used a spoke protector in years. Years ago, the spoke protector was made of heavy chromed steel.
I've seen wheels with the spokes ripped apart from this happening, the dork disc could have saved a lot of them, I'm actually going to make myself an aluminium dork disc like I see on old road bikes to save me money in the long run on wheels
TBH, I assumed that this had something to do with the fact that on these bikes the chain is capable of moving in two directions as well as at a different rotational speed from the wheel, meaning that there's a lot less of a guarantee about the chain jumping off the gear and contacting the spokes. I would expect that if you're dumb enough to have the disc off, the gear shift improperly adjusted and be peddling backwards right before switching directly for a change of gear that you would see it happen. It's also probably part of why it's apparently not universal to all regions.
I don't remember my old Huffy BMX bike having those discs, it also had coaster brakes and only one pair of sprockets, making it far less likely to need the extra protection. As long as the chain was tight enough to not be removable without cutting the chain, or removing a gear, it was fine. Not something that was likely to be possible without extreme negligence.
Dork!
I actually made one for my new DT wheel, because the chain left pretty significant marks on the hub and I wasn't even pedaling that hard and I stopped right away. I designed it much wider, so the chain can't physically go further. Then printed on a 3D printer.
Great video thanks for the share. Personally I’ve never had any problems with a chain coming off the sprocket and going into the wheel but then again I only ride on the road and my bikes have always been properly maintained and my first bikes in the 60s never had gears but I’ve always left the dork disc on like any other “safety” device.
My experience says that these Mainly prevent spoke damage from overshifting. I've definitely had the occasional overshift event over the years and it creates small scratches/gouges on the spokes. I had a spoke break once due to this. The spoke then grabbed the derailuer... Carnage ensued. No crashes, though... No idea how this would cause a crash. You're going to be pretty slow any time you're using that gear.
Great stuff ! After years of cycling i definitely have fewer problems on bikes i have fitted with this device .
Hi Seth, with the underground pushing the wheel the spokes push on the chain - kind of from the inside out. If you're actually pedalling only then will the chain be pulled into the tightening gap.(outside-in). And if you pedal hard like e.g. on a steep climb then the chain might very well get locked with exactly that force, Cheers :)
And then you whack you nuts on either the headset or crossbar 🤕 😁 hahaha
@@jakedevries1455 that's first fixie experience when i entered the turning lane and did the shoulder look i just forgot ... :D
Who is the dork that referred to it as a "dork disc" to begin with? I think it should be made of something a bit more substantial than a flimsy piece of plastic. In fact, I think my Schwinn Super Sport in the 1970s had a chrome plated steel one. Yeah, yeah, I know- lightweight, zoom, zoom.
Here in Germany, a lot of the bike paths are cobblestones. Once I was biking home, shortly after replacing my rear wheel. The dork disk had been removed and not replaced at the shop. I was going fairly fast, shifting up into top gear, when I hit some bumpy cobblestones. The chain bounced up and off the gears, falling between them and the spokes. And it cut through four or five spokes like a chainsaw. Luckily, it was not too long a walk home.
So, I was riding my bike down the trail and my chain went over into my spokes and then it ruined my wife's tread mill. You rock Seth. I love your channel.
My experience without a DORK disc and a misadjusted lower limit stop screw resulted in severely damaged spokes. So much so that the rear wheel needed to be rebuilt. Granted this was on a road bike before mountain bikes were even a thing. A Schwinn Paramount with Campy Nuovo Record derailleur. But I was a teenager, what did I know. And yes I don't ride with a DORK disc on any of my chain drive bikes.
“I bought MY treadmill..”
“Amy is not going to be happy about that”
I have broken a derailleur because I had removed the disc. No, I won’t ride without it.
It’s nice to see you doing Phil-Level things in a controlled environment. :)
First thing I ever did on a mountain bike was stick it in lowest and shear the rear axle retention clips off the frame, bend the rear rim and rip the valvestem off. Too many years pushing a little MX36 one speed I guess.
The dork-disk's *entire purpose* is to keep the cheaper parallelogram shifters from digging into the spokes directly. That's it. It stops kids and fools from allowing the duplex from damaging the spokes and causing an unsafe ride. It is the single largest example of a "warranty void if removed" device you will ever see.
On my last hybrid bike, the dork disc disintegrated and eventually my chain did end up off the cassette. It didn't do much damage the first time, but it happened a few times over a year and eventually chewed through some spokes.
The biggest problem with the dork disc is that it's made of such cheap plastic it often breaks off the hub and spins freely, prompting the owner to just snip it off.
That’s exactly what happened to mine. It was easier to just cut it off that piss about trying to get it to sit properly
I just zip tied mine to the spokes. 3 minutes work. Done.
@@churnetvalleyrunner3635 zip tie to spokes. Done, and keep your protection.
I respect the fact that you used your good and expensive bike because the cheap bike didn’t have good results.
Great content Seth!
This video was very helpful. Thanks.
I've never had my derailer get sucked up, but I did have my chain come off of the casette or the front gear before. Definitely makes for a surprising way to pause a ride
If you are trying to shift into your biggest cog, you're probably not going very fast.
And if the derailleur isn't bent, it's pretty much impossible for it to get caught in the spokes
not fast but likely under a high load
This has only happened to me a hand full of times in 30 plus years of riding without a dork disk, where the chain has gotten caught between the spokes and the cassette. The worst case for me was the chain got so wedged in-between that the chain cut 2 of the spokes and I had to remove the cassette to get the chain out (no dork disk). Best case is that the chain just pulls out, but I have always have had damage to the spokes and it a judgment call on whether to replace them of not. The dork disk is sacrificial gear that helps protect the spokes from damage when the chain gets caught.
I wonder if the bike's power system was under a load (like when you were actually biking) there would have been more adverse consequences? Kudos for taking this demonstration on!
Thank you so much, I've learn something new!
I actually ended up buying a "dork disk" - I've replaced my rear wheel twice on my old bike, perhaps 'cause I carry too much with it. But I never bothered replacing the original "dork disk" because I thought I didn't need it.
Then when coming home from a commute one day, my derailleur freaked out randomly, and wedged my chain firmly between freewheel hub and spokes.
The rear wheel locked up completely, and I couldn't free the chain. Had to carry heavy 20 KG bike home on shoulders with a walk of shame. Not fun. Could only be freed by unscrewing the freewheel hub.
So now I have a dork disk to stop that from happening again, even though I keep my bike maintained and it's not done that since. Good thing I wasn't far from home, or carrying anything.
Seth, you're testing a 35 lb bike just riding on a treadmill and the rear wheel ends up hopping around as the chain causes havoc.
in real life, there is a 150 lb rider and a ton of momentum on that bike, so a lot more energy and potential for damage. that weight on top of the rear wheel also keeps that wheel on the ground spinning until the considerably larger momentum eventually gets slowed down by crushing metal and friction.
in short, I think the real life scenario involves way more energy.
also, who knows what can happen if you get that happening at speed, you could lose control of the bike even if the damage isn't that bad.
all that being said, we took off our dork disks too.
4:46 most graceful wheel removal ever. lol
I have experienced the issue you wanted to recreate more than once, and I think what you were lacking was your full weight on the bike making the chain get stuck closer to the center, where it might get caught up in a way that's hard to get out without dismounting the cassette.
I have repaired a lot of bikes for friends and family over the years and these plastic discs make absolutely no difference. It's usually the old, dirt-packed, rotting drivetrains that implode when the chain is overshifting into the spokes. Though the concept of this unloved part is actually not too bad, but wrongly executed. For it to work manufacturers should include it in the cassette (like an extra non-toothed cog, slightly larger than the lowest gear). Included firmly on the cassette so it won't rattle around, maybe with some rad color accent or even color-customizability (wow I should patent this lol) But it must be a part of the cassette if it's supposed to stop the chain overshifting. If you catch it after it's already dropped into the spokes, it does not matter if there's a dork disk or not. If the chain and spokes are full of dirt and scream friction, it will grab and go funny.
When shopping for some odd sized freewheels to repair some vintage bikes, I've come across some just like this, the last "gear" is just a disk. I really liked the idea and wished I could see it on other gear sets. - For the rest of the conversation, I keep mine on.. I don't care what it looks like, if it breaks I remove it, otherwise, it's not hurting anything and stays until it doesn't.
Would've liked a look at the spokes because I've seen spokes get ground almost all the way through having worked in a bikeshop for almost 10 years
Dude...thanks for the laughs, that was great!
"A real bike with tighter tolerances" absolutely could not be said better
What you didn't address is the damage to the heads of the spokes as the spinning wheel grinds them against the non-moving chain. After a few of those incidents, the spokes will begin failing, either when the heads break off or at the 90° bend where the spoke exits the hub flange.
Good point👌🏼
Stainless spokes like to snap at the bend at the best of times without grinding a chain over them.
That won't happen on carbon fiber wheels scenario? Or what can go south?
I jumped off a set of stairs on a super cheap specialized, and when I landed it bucked the chain off and then got sucked into the wheel snapping the derailed and a few spokes. That bike was my ride home so that was fun.
I've had a few road bikes come with these and I always wondered what they were for.
I think it's funny watching you carefully take it off your bike when in the past I've definitely just ripped them in half to get them off 🤣
One factor to consider on a modern 1x drivetrain, if you're shifting into the big cog, chances are you are going pretty slow, so it's not really a issue.
You said it! Just shifting your gears properly in a delicate fashion and in good time whilst not under load is proper technique and will avoid this scenario.
Also making sure the high/low adjustment screws on your rear mech are spot on will ensure this never happens.
The 'Dork Disc' is very appropriately named in my opinion as it is there for total wallys who cannot ride or maintain a bike properly?
Consider it a rite of passage removing it in a similar manner to your stabilizers as it is there for 'childrens' safety!
Been mountain biking for 33 years. Although I have had the chain get jammed into the spokes quite significantly, I have never had a catastrophic failure in this manner. Disclaimer: out of the fifty of so bikes I've had, I've never left the plastic disc on the bike.
50 bikes in 33 years?
@@Durwood71 Easy if your 'wheeling and dealing'
Wow, what a poseur. 🙄
@@Durwood71 you should see how many golf clubs I have/had 😬
@@Durwood71 30+ cars and 20+ motorcycles😁
The treadmill is missing the part where the rear wheel is hammering on a bumpy trail and the tensioner on the derailleur goes slack enough to throw a chain that's not under much tension. Spoke guard is there for that kind of thing. Just an extra bit of insurance to not catch spokes and possibly taco a wheel in the process.
I never knew the dork disk was required by law!
I’ve had a few instances of the chain jumping into the spokes on older bikes. The one time it happened on a modern bike was when I bent my hangar and still had to ride out.
If I understand correctly, the main complaint about these things is that they are too flimsy and inevitably break. So why not make a sturdier one? You could make it from aviation grade aluminium or titanium, or some esoteric unobtainium compound, and you can put gaudy designs on the backside. That's easily another seven hundred bucks you can pointlessly spend on your favourite toy.
Hey seth! Could have someone machine a custom dork disc out of metal, like aluminum or titanium for you to test? I would personally rock one of those if they existed!
Every mtber pays dearly to have lighter parts and takes off everything not necessary. Adding a new part made of metal is not something ANY biker would willingly do.
@@thebystander1636
You talk like we're all roadie ninnies in superhero cosplays. 🙄
@@thebystander1636 I would, + a titanium dork disc weighs like 50g max
And remind you Seth isn't one of those people, he has a chain made purely out of master links on his hardtail.
I tried making one out of wood one time-the Dude Disc. It didn’t work all that well
@@BermPeakExpress could ask a fan to make a metal one?
Personally I think that they call it a dork disk for a reason. It's just like taking reflectors off, even if it doesn't make a difference, it just feels right.
You should reflect on that
Yeah, just bought a rather nice Giant Revolt gravel bike. Lovely rims, disc brakes, and a big lump of orange plastic attached to a spoke to throw the wheel balance off 🤦♂️
It’s gone now ⚰️
@@tornagawn Take off the valve stem while you're at it if you actually care about balancing the wheel.
@@jaro6985 Nah, they seem to serve some purpose.
@@tornagawn You should balance the wheel then to compensate for stem, maybe you could use a plastic clip on reflector as a weight..
I like how earlier and at 7:19 you can see Oscar get a little frightened by the chain and wheel, and even before that he tries to go on the treadmill! 😆
I see another purpose for the thing: it does protect your cassette on one side from collecting debris. Yes, it is likely to become rather dirty with the time, and is not that well suited for cleaning, but with it missing, you would allow sand and dirt, even objects like branches to go into your cogs faster.
These discs were made of metal in the 1930s, and were a vital piece of safety equipment for derailleurs like the Super Champion Osgear, where the chain is shifted onto the next sprocket by a pivoting fork. The fork is under strong spring pressure, and if unchecked, will will be forced into the spokes. Normally, the correctly adjusted gear cable, connected to the derailleur by a pinch bolt, restrains the derailleur, but if the cable were to break or to slip from the grip of the pinch bolt, then the fork will fly into the spokes without the protection of the metal (usually aluminium) disc. Perhaps, if the disc were made of metal instead of flimsy plastic, it could serve a practical purpose. I imagine, though, that cyclists who are more image-conscious than self-confident would still object to them.
always wanted to know what these were for, thanks!
Your presentation is better and educational,good job.
I actually had my dork disc on my 29" hardtail save my wheel about a month ago. Was just on a midnight ride, going uphill, and out of nowhere, the chain overshifted and destroyed my dork disc into a half a dozen pieces. Thankfully, I live a block away from the only bike shop in town, and was able to get another dork disc fairly easily.
The bigger point is, the dork disc saved my spokes and my wheel. No broken spokes, and the ride home was insuring that the chain didn't get on first gear on the freewheel.
When I was a teenager, I rode a Raleigh Gran Prix 10 speed. I replaced my freewheel and had the big, chrome, metal spoke protector removed. I had yet to adjust my rear derailleur limit screws. A friend wanted to see how the new gearing felt and immediately shifted to the lowest cog. The chain jammed between the freewheel and spokes and ripped my Simplex derailleur from the hanger.
A few years ago I came up with an idea to replace the dork disk with something that would actually prevent the chain from falling into the spokes. It basically is a ramped dork disk. The ramp stops even with the highest gear so the chain would just slide down the ramp until it hit the sprocket. It could even be snapped in place or zip tied to the spokes. Was going to use some Carbon/Kevlar cloth to make one but never got around to doing it. Of coarse it would only work for the cassette that I have on the bike but I thought it would be a fun experiment, none the less.
This sounds like a feature that could be added to the casset itself
@@noobulon4334 It certainly could. But there would be a few things to consider like would it replace the largest sprocket or would it be welded to the largest sprocket or how far do you make the ramp. Too much of a ramp and it could hit the spokes. But if it was made from a plastic, then it could just snap on the back of the sprocket and just touch the spokes. Lots of good ideas!
As a kid, while riding an old 5 speed through the woods something got kicked up into the derailleur jockey wheels, it locked up the chain in the derailleur, the derailleur folded to the left and into the spokes, almost instantly it removed about 10 spokes and the wheel was done for the day. The bike had a tiny tin dork disc that really didn't extend beyond the largest sprocket.
The older bikes had HUGE discs, some as big as 9" or so and made from chrome plated steel. Those would have stopped the wheel from getting damage, but would not have stopped the derailleur from being ripped apart.
I have had bikes toss the chain and it get caught behind the freewheel, both with and without the disc installed, rarely was it just a matter of lifting the chain back in place, but it was on much older bikes in the 70's. Many times the chain was what suffered the most, with the occasional marred up spoke or two.
Years later, I tend to leave them in place, and put them back if missing if the bike is being ridden off pavement. On the road, it depends on the bike.
Most common reason for chain getting sucked into spokes is not poor adjustment but a bent derailleur hanger, and in this scenario dork disc does nothing as it's usually the cage from the derailleur that gets caught in spokes and gets wrapped around the cassette twisted and often snapped