Just great! Really enthusiastic video. Look at the happy face of Martin doing skidz! Very professional interview by Chris in such extreme conditions. It's always cool to watch talented making their work!
Returning here again, helps me to improve both my mental model and real world FWD drifts seen on my page. ---- 1:14 (Reasonable indication point to apply throttle, i.e. when car is balanced, when oversteer is controlled wrt apex) ---- 2:23 (Consequences of overdriving) ---- 3:38 (Consequences of throttling too much wrt apex, results in "power understeer" which may actually be repaired by left foot braking appropriately) ---- 7:02 (After already having triggered oversteer, lack of throttle means we may spin out) As noted, with FWD we sideway the car into the corner, while with RWD we can create momentum and slide through an entire longer corner.
DR BRETT ANDERSON If this were an amateur video, that would be a fine fix. These guys make a living off of the ad revenue and they should have edited the audio.
WhoooLovesOrangeSoda A supplementary microphone (incl. foam "baffle") is all they need. Even better would be a decent set of lapel mic's like newscasters.
I started trying out left foot braking and it does wonders. takes handling and cornering speeds to a whole new level. would probably go faster around a track on a FWD car than on a RWD.
Agreed. Properly driven, and of course barring 500bhp+ cars where FWD cars can't get the power on the road in the same way, an FWD car can and will outperform an RWD car around a circuit - which of course touring car series show, time and time again.
Andi Kravljaca But touring car series often have a penalty weight for rear wheel drive cars. I think I remember WTCC having it at 20 kg and ETCC at 30 kg. Priaulx won the WTCC 3 times in a row with a BMW and only Chevrolet have won more races than BMW in the WTCC.
Andi Kravljaca except in almost all fair situations, fwd has few advantages on a race circuit but touring cars are to promote road cars which are mostly fwd so the race cars have to be too (hence bmw's impressive level of success in touring cars worldwide in the last 25 years)
I have to kind of agree, all else being equal, a good FWD car is going to be faster, on the road, on the track, on gravel. I have a GT86, my wife drives an ‘18 Civic Si and my oldest son has a Mk7 GTI (DSG). I can drive the GTI and Si at a blistering pace much easier and with less concentration or risk than my RWD FRS. That being said, I still prefer the FRS 80% of the time. There are those days, however, when nothing beats stealing my sons GTI and just marveling at how fast it is. I never thought I’d enjoy the DSG as much as I do. It just works so well.
@guestfromhell10 I think the main factors in making a successful FWD drift is your turning path you have chosen, the throttle and braking timing. You have to know the corner well as well. Most importantly (and dangerously), you need to enter into the corner faster than what you can turn normally (over speed). You don't need to use left foot braking to do the drift too.
I think FF cars require a lot of precision diving because if you get on the gas to early or late at the apex then you've lost time. But when they're tuned right and driven right they can really be fast.
Found this video around 1 year ago, but by then I had already been drifting my Fk8, wish I had found it at the start. (a) I learnt by experience and estimation, about working the throttle, lift off oversteering, just to control oversteer and avoid hitting curbs. (b) Afterwards I naturally learnt to operate wrt points looking like an apex. If I had seen this video first, I would have started with a combination of (b) and (a), not merely mostly (a)!!! This is probably where Harris learnt to drift FWD, which lead to him drifting fk8 and beyond:
This video help me understand the fwd techniques.. thanks for the vid posting.. I have recently bought a 98 integra, and im going to do some touge in it.. i have bought front strut bar, front lower tir bar and lowering springs, and later on alignment.. im pretty sure this honda will perform good on the sharp windy turn..
BTCC proves that FWD is > RWD if they are completely evenly matched in weight, suspension, Power. Tho they work best when the car is as light as possible..
Hit it more, you're causing more slide by trailing the brake I presume. Stab it and cause a definite balance shift. Also keep the front wheels in shape in relation to the desired direction of travel NOT worrying about what the rest of the car is doing, the rear will follow :)
@guestfromhell10 Did you try countersteering in the opposite direction before you throw the car into the drift? It creates a stronger inertia and throws the car oversteering better.
@sikkony I forgot to also add, I think the type of suspension setup is crucial too. A civic type R etc has very stiff suspension, so rolling effects are minimal, compared to that of a standard family car etc. The more roll you have, the less you will be able to drift/slide, and the higher the chance of understeer.
@sikkony I would belive you if it wasn´t for the fact that I drive an old Saab V4 -69 which is the most narrow car in sweden, plus its got as soft suspension as you can imagine, and its the best car for left foot braking ive ever driven, because theres no program that runs the motor its just gas, explosions and a lunatic controlling it all, so if you want a pure rally-car for left foot braking, go for the beautiful Saab 96 V4 :)
For some reason when I try to do that braking thing, the rear end never kicks out. I always kind of understeer more. It seems like he's braking and flicking in at the same time, but when I do that it never really works for me...
Too heavy on the brakes, overloading the front tyres and causing understeer. Gotta flick and jab the brake, don't hold the brake just throw the weight forwards and flick the wheel violently to get it rotating.
awd is the most difficult to drive fast, because you are not able to correct you misstakes as easily, as with other typs of cars. probleme is, most people don't know it, because most people can not drive fast, but then again most people confuse traction with grip.
thanks man i know speeding and rushing aint good like i crashed into a light pole and also there was like a 150ft drop that i couldve gone to so yeah man we should be more careful
@apexdna And are safer and more predictable at the limit... It also counts to the fact that RWD's are inherently unstable resulting in a Spin on almost every sort of contact (BTCC is prone to having those). Acceleration really is the only thing an FWD loses to RWD. And thats why Im a fan of AWD XD
Remember, FWD the car pulls you through corners. RWD car pushes you. Takes some getting used to when going from RWD to FWD especially on a track or doing a high performance driving track day. Cheers.
Proves again that in reality the drivetrain layout has very little to do with the actual handling of the car...both type of cars can understeer from factory, and can be set up for oversteer. Think of tire pressures, you can either have the front deflated and rear overinflated or vice versa, the effect is very similar. Same thing goes for spring rate bias, sway bar thickness, shock rebound & camber adjustments, etc.
A. Shaw Yeaa its so much better when they can drive after a emp though some vehicles can some are even shielded but most will be inoperable left foot braking is nice I did that anyways before I knew what it was lol so I watched this and I guess it only gave me more confidence knowing I had already figured that out for myself definitely is a lifersaver too to avoid collisions and Yeaa Ive had my car sideways even outran 18 cops;)
AWD is sort of a strange beast. Its limits are much higher, and it is harder to fuck up because of the fact that all four wheels are being powered by the engine, but when you do fuck up......It's a closed casket.
too late for me i crashed my FWD car 2 days ago for over driving it i was used to 4WD and also ESP on now im not an imprudent driver I just took that curve a little bit to fast early on the gas couldve died
@guestfromhell10 Haha yeah I do the same thing, I live in a small town so parking lots or dirt roads is all I have. Martin Rowe says in this video you want to get the front of the car good and turning, and you really need to use the brakes to transfer weight to the front and lift it off the back which can then drift on the pavement better. So come in with a little over speed, start the turn, and brake once you're turning to get that weight off the back tires. Good luck man, be safe.
he said it had hideous understeer. yet everybody in the country knows an FN2 is about front end precision not rear end adjustability. Clarkson is a muppet who just says silly shit so they get ratings. I prefer honest reviews that's why I watch chris harris.
hahahaha, i've actually got the hang of it now! It can make me much quicker. Fuck doing it on the roads though, formula for a huge and very embarrasing crash with out a doubt. lol
I just saying you could of had the facing facing forward. this way we could of seen the way u handled the steering wheel and shifter. we wouldn't see ur faces but we would of still heard your voices just fine. I didn't mean to put ur video down. I was just giving u my 2 cents.
Chris Harris used to be Chris Hair-ris and is now Chris Hairless
alireza24 I appreciate this comment so much
Haha Chris Hairish
It happens when you grow old, your testosterone level goes down and the progesterone goes up. They lose hair and grow tits.
This video is so cool I don't even care that it lacks camera angles and a proper mic.
Just thank you Chris.
Just great! Really enthusiastic video. Look at the happy face of Martin doing skidz! Very professional interview by Chris in such extreme conditions. It's always cool to watch talented making their work!
This vid is 10 years old and has more information about fwd than any other video i have seen big props to you guys lots of usefull information
Returning here again, helps me to improve both my mental model and real world FWD drifts seen on my page.
---- 1:14 (Reasonable indication point to apply throttle, i.e. when car is balanced, when oversteer is controlled wrt apex)
---- 2:23 (Consequences of overdriving)
---- 3:38 (Consequences of throttling too much wrt apex, results in "power understeer" which may actually be repaired by left foot braking appropriately)
---- 7:02 (After already having triggered oversteer, lack of throttle means we may spin out)
As noted, with FWD we sideway the car into the corner, while with RWD we can create momentum and slide through an entire longer corner.
wow that was awesome, I can't believe how calm they are while going 95+ through corners
Hayk Samvelyan gotta remember that is most likely kph not mph.....so he is going like 65...still impressive but not quite the same thing
@@cae2487 Mate its definitely MPH, they said so in the video
You guys should edit the audio if youre doing a video like this next time. I have to concentrate harder than the driver is just to hear some of it.
Try VLC Media Player -- Tools, Effects and Filters, Audio Effects, Graphic Equalizer, Enable,
BOOST THE HIGH FREQUENCY SLIDERS .
www.videolan.org/vlc/
DR BRETT ANDERSON If this were an amateur video, that would be a fine fix. These guys make a living off of the ad revenue and they should have edited the audio.
WhoooLovesOrangeSoda
A supplementary microphone (incl. foam "baffle") is all they need.
Even better would be a decent set of lapel mic's like newscasters.
I started trying out left foot braking and it does wonders. takes handling and cornering speeds to a whole new level. would probably go faster around a track on a FWD car than on a RWD.
Agreed. Properly driven, and of course barring 500bhp+ cars where FWD cars can't get the power on the road in the same way, an FWD car can and will outperform an RWD car around a circuit - which of course touring car series show, time and time again.
Andi Kravljaca But touring car series often have a penalty weight for rear wheel drive cars.
I think I remember WTCC having it at 20 kg and ETCC at 30 kg. Priaulx won the WTCC 3 times in a row with a BMW and only Chevrolet have won more races than BMW in the WTCC.
Andi Kravljaca except in almost all fair situations, fwd has few advantages on a race circuit but touring cars are to promote road cars which are mostly fwd so the race cars have to be too (hence bmw's impressive level of success in touring cars worldwide in the last 25 years)
I have to kind of agree, all else being equal, a good FWD car is going to be faster, on the road, on the track, on gravel. I have a GT86, my wife drives an ‘18 Civic Si and my oldest son has a Mk7 GTI (DSG). I can drive the GTI and Si at a blistering pace much easier and with less concentration or risk than my RWD FRS. That being said, I still prefer the FRS 80% of the time. There are those days, however, when nothing beats stealing my sons GTI and just marveling at how fast it is. I never thought I’d enjoy the DSG as much as I do. It just works so well.
@guestfromhell10 I think the main factors in making a successful FWD drift is your turning path you have chosen, the throttle and braking timing. You have to know the corner well as well. Most importantly (and dangerously), you need to enter into the corner faster than what you can turn normally (over speed).
You don't need to use left foot braking to do the drift too.
I think FF cars require a lot of precision diving because if you get on the gas to early or late at the apex then you've lost time. But when they're tuned right and driven right they can really be fast.
Sean Kallas a
Had to watch this cuz I almost crash this morning in my fwd Jetta 1.8t
Understeer mate?
Found this video around 1 year ago, but by then I had already been drifting my Fk8, wish I had found it at the start.
(a) I learnt by experience and estimation, about working the throttle, lift off oversteering, just to control oversteer and avoid hitting curbs.
(b) Afterwards I naturally learnt to operate wrt points looking like an apex.
If I had seen this video first, I would have started with a combination of (b) and (a), not merely mostly (a)!!!
This is probably where Harris learnt to drift FWD, which lead to him drifting fk8 and beyond:
I only came here because I have just got a Civic type R and what should they be using in the video? Type R! What a car.
me too!
Subtitles would be nice. Can't understand much of what is being said with all that engine noise.
Doesnt exist.
+Arend-Jan Wijtzes this video is 6 years old
You realize that's what car guys love right
Look at that guy's chin. Must be a professional driver.
This video help me understand the fwd techniques.. thanks for the vid posting.. I have recently bought a 98 integra, and im going to do some touge in it.. i have bought front strut bar, front lower tir bar and lowering springs, and later on alignment.. im pretty sure this honda will perform good on the sharp windy turn..
What i would pay to see in 4k...or even 720 lol. Awesome stuff
BTCC proves that FWD is > RWD if they are completely evenly matched in weight, suspension, Power. Tho they work best when the car is as light as possible..
Hit it more, you're causing more slide by trailing the brake I presume. Stab it and cause a definite balance shift. Also keep the front wheels in shape in relation to the desired direction of travel NOT worrying about what the rest of the car is doing, the rear will follow :)
Where can I learn to do this safely?
@wwwopethin What exhaust? Ever driven a proper car before? They have less sound deadening for the sake of weight savings.
Hahahaha love Chris counting off speed as Martin is demonstrating with no hands on the wheel, awesome.
@guestfromhell10
Did you try countersteering in the opposite direction before you throw the car into the drift? It creates a stronger inertia and throws the car oversteering better.
@likess You need short dumpers. The old ones are too "slow" for the short springs so it will swim around.
Great vid!
And the euro Type R seems better after viewing this! sound is really good
@Detoyato That's because an FF can push way farther than any FR ever could on high speed corners.
Well yeah, 200hp is where it gets hard to control. But if your suspension and alignment is set up right, you can really kill around the track.
Was surprised to see Chris as the passenger!!
Yep, find somewhere with run-off and get surprised by the braking grip on gravel too.
I see. So I guess punch the brake harder to MAKE SURE the front is very heavy. And yes, I am trying to slide more by trail braking.
What car is that? Sounds gorgeous
It's a newer Civic hatch, Type R.
8th gen civic hatch type R. k20
too bad it's ugly as fuck...
Ugly civic type R, but fantastic K20A integra engine
+Alex Rorrison it's a k20z4 engine as it turns out not from an integra. Also I disagree with ugly comment. I think it looks fantastic!
@sikkony I forgot to also add, I think the type of suspension setup is crucial too. A civic type R etc has very stiff suspension, so rolling effects are minimal, compared to that of a standard family car etc. The more roll you have, the less you will be able to drift/slide, and the higher the chance of understeer.
@Detoyato AWD is nice, but FFs/FRs w/o electronic gizmos are more rewarding i.e. raw if you will...
@sikkony I would belive you if it wasn´t for the fact that I drive an old Saab V4 -69 which is the most narrow car in sweden, plus its got as soft suspension as you can imagine, and its the best car for left foot braking ive ever driven, because theres no program that runs the motor its just gas, explosions and a lunatic controlling it all, so if you want a pure rally-car for left foot braking, go for the beautiful Saab 96 V4 :)
Propper angles an gopro on the peddles as well as the outsude widow views would be choice its hard to get it fully just on yammering
For some reason when I try to do that braking thing, the rear end never kicks out. I always kind of understeer more. It seems like he's braking and flicking in at the same time, but when I do that it never really works for me...
Too heavy on the brakes, overloading the front tyres and causing understeer. Gotta flick and jab the brake, don't hold the brake just throw the weight forwards and flick the wheel violently to get it rotating.
oh my god is that Chris Harris with hair ? !
@santclause1
he was saying the new type r handled like crap compared to the old one, which is true.
when rain will stop in U K?????
when it's foggy..
It's still raining in the uk....will inform you again 4 years from now...
You know this was done 4 and a half years ago, right? They didn't have tons of tiny HD cameras you can stick where you like.
this is a good view!
Just wonderful 👍
This is gold
awd is the most difficult to drive fast, because you are not able to correct you misstakes as easily, as with other typs of cars. probleme is, most people don't know it, because most people can not drive fast, but then again most people confuse traction with grip.
Great vid, thanks for the upload
thanks man i know speeding and rushing aint good like i crashed into a light pole and also there was like a 150ft drop that i couldve gone to so yeah man we should be more careful
Great explaination
You've got a point there...
I wish they had done something about so much noise from the exhaust. Can barely hear them :(
@apexdna And are safer and more predictable at the limit... It also counts to the fact that RWD's are inherently unstable resulting in a Spin on almost every sort of contact (BTCC is prone to having those).
Acceleration really is the only thing an FWD loses to RWD.
And thats why Im a fan of AWD XD
Remember, FWD the car pulls you through corners. RWD car pushes you. Takes some getting used to when going from RWD to FWD especially on a track or doing a high performance driving track day. Cheers.
Sound good, I'll give it a try!
He looks away alot when he drives..and for long periods of time too at high speeds...nice
Proves again that in reality the drivetrain layout has very little to do with the actual handling of the car...both type of cars can understeer from factory, and can be set up for oversteer. Think of tire pressures, you can either have the front deflated and rear overinflated or vice versa, the effect is very similar. Same thing goes for spring rate bias, sway bar thickness, shock rebound & camber adjustments, etc.
@james86d lots of cars have a wing like that. supra, evo, sti and others
Most new cars will not allow you to use the brake and the accel pedal at the same time.
Most new cars suck and are not meant for this although there are a few gems arent there I guess all will be void after emp though
A. Shaw Yeaa its so much better when they can drive after a emp though some vehicles can some are even shielded but most will be inoperable left foot braking is nice I did that anyways before I knew what it was lol so I watched this and I guess it only gave me more confidence knowing I had already figured that out for myself definitely is a lifersaver too to avoid collisions and Yeaa Ive had my car sideways even outran 18 cops;)
I disconnect the battery and short out the terminals after every drive so my car will survive :)
You are the best !
great..thanks for uploading
Thanks for this!
Really Good! Thanks!
great info!!
sweet video
2 people are stuck on bicycles and scooters.
6:25 "we are virtually going backwards"
nice driving but what about the quality of the commentary??
Subtitles please
@baseballplayer2600 look up peugeot 306 maxi. fwd rally car that beat awd on tarmac. n/a 200hp
In the passenger seat, yes.
AWD is sort of a strange beast. Its limits are much higher, and it is harder to fuck up because of the fact that all four wheels are being powered by the engine, but when you do fuck up......It's a closed casket.
The best FWD is the megane RS trophy
the video would be 100000000% better if you would have turned the camera 180°
sweet thank you
chris harris?!?
@NickleJ oops... i should have watched longer.
@5:37 he’s says you can’t have fun in a front wheel drive, then @6:25 he finally experiences “fun” in a fwd lol
too late for me i crashed my FWD car 2 days ago for over driving it i was used to 4WD and also ESP on now im not an imprudent driver I just took that curve a little bit to fast early on the gas couldve died
left foot braking is hard =/
@guestfromhell10
Haha yeah I do the same thing, I live in a small town so parking lots or dirt roads is all I have. Martin Rowe says in this video you want to get the front of the car good and turning, and you really need to use the brakes to transfer weight to the front and lift it off the back which can then drift on the pavement better. So come in with a little over speed, start the turn, and brake once you're turning to get that weight off the back tires. Good luck man, be safe.
Those crazy Finns and Swedes would remind you there is also left foot braking.
not as dangerous as looking away when you're in a rwd though!! comes with time and its on a track there. i presume!!
brake override is a bitch...
7:19 Agreed!
Chris Harris = awesome.
before i even saw the car i knew it was a honda. VTECCC
its just different style
that was f*ckin great!
exactly
God this civic is so loud!
i like them skids.
i cant hear what theyre saying with the sound of the engine they should use better mics
This is the champ white edition with lsd, the one clarkson drove was the normal fn2 r although i agree clarkson cant drive for shit lol
He can drive, he's just... ham fisted.
he said it had hideous understeer. yet everybody in the country knows an FN2 is about front end precision not rear end adjustability. Clarkson is a muppet who just says silly shit so they get ratings. I prefer honest reviews that's why I watch chris harris.
hahahaha, i've actually got the hang of it now! It can make me much quicker. Fuck doing it on the roads though, formula for a huge and very embarrasing crash with out a doubt. lol
When did Chris Harris leave ISIS?
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA 2:22!
Son of a bitch. It's Chris FUCKING HARRIS!!!!
cant hear what they say!!!!!!!!!!
Just shows you, clarkson was completely wrong!
I just saying you could of had the facing facing forward. this way we could of seen the way u handled the steering wheel and shifter. we wouldn't see ur faces but we would of still heard your voices just fine. I didn't mean to put ur video down. I was just giving u my 2 cents.