Jordan Peterson | ContraPoints
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ค. 2024
- A response.
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I listened to JP and took his advice. I cleaned up my damn room, took personal responsibility, and came out as a transsexual communist cat girl. Thanks Dr Peterson.
Have you gone into a self-chosen medically induced coma in eastern europe to clean up from drugs yet? And then come back to NA to tell everyone how shit they are and how to live their lives better?
Glad Dr. Peterson has helped you find yourself. I hope you gain a stronger sense of life purpose as you know your identity
@@JBanchiere Quoi?
@@countessmargoth469 yeah he went for a banned procedure (for treating withdrawal?) In eastern Europe where they simply put you into a medical induced coma. This is di that you don't go through the pain of withdrawal. But he couldn't be woken to nobody's shock. Guess he's doing better now.
Nice, I'm glad you sorted some things out. Won't be long until you realise communism represents just about the exact opposite of personal responsibility.
This takes guts. Not everyone is willing to criticize their sexual partners so openly.
Lmao funny take
@Kyrie Derrick Happy to help xD
@Carlos Graja these things are driving me nuts.
"I got to the site thru google" you know, that normal thing that humans say
Lmfao
The fact Jordan Peterson watched this and the fact this was an entry point to the left for several people will never not make me laugh
He diddd?????
@@lightyears-xo8qb yep
Where’s the reaction??
Where can we find the video ? Do you remember the title ?
How do you know that
"Don't break the fourth wall, I'm trying to make a video about postmodernism" is an underrated joke, imo
“Clock me, Amadeus” is such a good line it makes me angry
@@alisaurus4224 " so much for the tolerant Jacobins" made me a fan forever
The joke even gets better if you think about how very postmodern this whole video is…
@@Alina_Schmidt How, in what way? Because it doesn't use a meta-narrative?
Yes, all this mentally ill turd has is toothless snark and no logic, evidence or any good points.
Absolutely lost it at Freud being labeled Daddy.
Aaron Hiatt SAME
It's even funnier because Freud publicised the whole "mommy" and "daddy" kink.
So many daddies in this video!
Chrissy Weaver Hi yes you understood the joke
then she immediately eats a corn dog .. bravo
"Clock me, Amadeus" is still one of the best things I've ever heard
Someone explain the meaning please, I want to laugh too!
@@marshmelows to "clock" someone is to point out when a person is trans, without their permission
@@kat4923 Hence she saying "clock me", giving permission. And does "point out" envolve? Talking about it? Labeling?
Lady fobbington
@@marshmelows I think that it's more provocative than anything. Like "I dare you. You don't have the guts to do it".
My biggest criticism of JP is that he often misinterprets facts, I don’t know if he does this on purpose and I would like to think he doesn’t, but for example, the “component” as he calls it, of women being too agreeable, and therefore this is what leads to their lack of promotions and raises even in female dominated fields like nursing and teaching, is simply false.
Women ask for promotions and raises just as often as men, they are just less likely to get them. In regards to promotions, women ask slightly more than men but as shown in “A Lean In/McKinsey & Company survey in 2016 of 132 companies and 34,000 employees found that women who negotiated for promotions were 30 percent more likely than men to be labeled intimidating, bossy or aggressive.”. This refers to women’s leadership being viewed differently to men’s, they’re not being told they can’t get these jobs because they don’t deserve it, which would be a better reason, but because they’re coming across “aggressive”. We often perceive women who act assertive as aggressive whereas we perceive men who do as good leaders. Another example of this is “Women caught in misconduct were 20 percent more likely to be fired and 30 percent less likely to find new employment”, which is again, more evidence that women aren’t more agreeable, they’re just punished if they’re not.
Another thing he misinterprets is that women have experienced a decline in happiness, which is true, however he then interprets this data as this is because women have more freedom and are being told to choose their careers over motherhood… the problem with this interpretation is that the unhappiest demographic of women is married women with children, and the happiest is single women. So he continuously imposes the idea that women who resign in traditional gender roles are happier when all the data suggests otherwise.
Mmmmhmmm and where exactly did you get this data?, JP is a clinical psychologist so he has real experience with real people regarding these things...
@@Gysoff Anecdotal cases does not equal large sample size, and thus scientifically valid research. I’m not disregarding either statements here, but both parties are not referring to any research here.
@@pascalvansteen I do refer to research, just copy and paste the stuff I put in quotation marks, it’s more than JP has ever provided
@@TaraCarmelina who knew that grade a school level understanding of quotation would clear up a lot of confusion.
If you ever read this, I would love to know your opinion on pseudo-intelectuallism- if you have the time.
I would say JP isn't a grifter in that he actually believes in the ideas he promotes but he's not a very good scientist. As in he doesn't try to disprove his ideas but rather use data to promote them. Not every intellectual does due diligence to check their ideas before taking them to market
Honestly, I've just started to look into your incredible works and I have to say that the person who writes your Italian subtitles is incredibly good.
Seriously, best captions I've ever seen on this platform
Who is it? How to check
@@gus8696 i think you can check it on pc?
Gonna tell my kids this was Socrates
TheColdTea _ 👌🏼😂😂👌🏼
@Edmund Damn you are pissed off.
Sounds like you should read Socrates then lol
@@jasonhamm3370 Socrates is not a deviant because pederasty was the Athenian norm. In fact, his (Plato's) ethical ideas are all about reaction and social unity under archaic laws...
@@jasonhamm3370 Socrates never wrote anything doe
This porno actually has a really riveting plot
@John Doe "the plot"
Loooool
I should be in bed right now but I had to comment. You're amazing. You've absolutely crushed it. I love that you threw JP a bit of a bone for the good that he does whilst exposing him at the same time for all of his strawman bullshit. It's such a healthy perspective and this is the type of thing the left really needs to bolster support from the fence sitting middle; reasoned fair takes. I may be laying it on a bit thick but holy shit the production quality; your outfits, lighting, design, HOLY SHIT you're absolute fire. 10/10.
The sad part of his existence is that he seemed to genuinely want to help people and started out as a well-meaning man, but by proxy, *_money corrupts absolutely..._*
Then based on your logic modern day contrapoints should be corrupt in comparison to this video. This is the only one I've seen
@@helmetmcbarin if you haven't already, you should watch more of her videos. The West is a really good follow-up to this one, and she's only gotten better since then.
Rip your algorithm after having to do the research for this episode
All those CRTV commercials...
Is that a bad thing?
The commercials wouldn't be so bad if they didn't feature so much Crowder. Talk about a punchable face.
@@joshuajohn8870 People on the more extreme left literally create safe spaces that are designed to be echo chambers as the rules are basically "don't offend here", you're saying it like that accusation has no merit.
Echo chambers happen for literally any topic people are passionate about so ill give you that, but this has nothing to do with safe spaces, you could call any gathering of people based on an idea a safe space then, which isnt what a "safe space" is.
@@joshuajohn8870I disagree. I think the main criticism is that "safe-spaces" reinforce the idea that it's an acceptable social expectation to not be offended. Echo-chambers are not skewed towards a type of politics particularly, and they are highly accentuated by the market forces of the click-economy. Sensible people of all political/social viewpoints and persuasions are generally aware of this. Of course there seem to be morons on all sides of anything though.
Natalie: Makes a genuinely high quality video about philosophy
Also Natalie: I don't care, I just like mood lighting
🤣🤣🤣❤️❤️❤️
Yeah but her arguments are like half baked bread
@@Lucy-cl2qk a fanboy of what? Also I'm a girl.
Looks like you're about as well reasoned as Natalie here.
Wild assumptions and no real points
@@AColonDashSix what does that mean?
@@AColonDashSix please can you explain what arguments of her were half baked?
Like i am too dumb and tired to understand that on my own
What do I WANT from you, Natalie? MORE! MORE damn set design. MORE damn mood lighting! MORE damn glitter eye shadow and nail art, damn it! I am bald and cancer fatigued and live The Glamorous Life vicariously through You and Lizzo! You provide a very important mental health service, and I am not just talking about Adult Education in Philosophy, History, world Culture and Political Science! I NEED to experience a little GLAM sometimes but this brain tumor is against it....your videos are better than the salon, because no Mean Girls, better than bubble baths, because no slippage, etc, etc........Thank you! LOVE and HUGS!
my condoleces to you , i hope the lizzo scandal didnt hit u too hard
Hey, how you doing boo? Kicked cancer's ass I hope? Bald and fabulous or no longer bald, and fabulous?❤
"The idea of people requesting different pronouns to suit their individual needs is exactly the kind of thing a person who values individual liberty over collective dogma should be on board with." 👏
To be fair, Peterson is very clear that it is the legal compulsion of pronoun use that he opposes. "The idea of people requesting different pronouns" is not something he has spoken against.
@@devinludwighe has.... There are various lectures where he said that it's gender dysphoria
@@harshkumar2473 What does that have to do with pronouns? Gender dysphoria is the name for the experience of trans folks.
@@devinludwig I don't deny that gender dysphoria is a issue .... However there are people who are actually transgender.... And the central idea on the centre of jordan peterson's arguements is that transgenderism is just a result of gender dysphoria.... And there was never a legal compulsion for pronouns (if you read the bill passed by the canadian government against which jordan peterson stood and gained his fame you will know that).... And btw i am a fan of jordan peterson... But you have to see where he is wrong
@@harshkumar2473 transgenderism is by definition a result of gender dysphoria. There's nothing controversial about that. I do believe JP is wrong about many things but not this.
But what about our Judeo-Crustacean values???
Bahahaa
Best pun ever!!
Also, lobster is treyf. Judeo-Crustaceans may have some internalized kosherism to unpack.
@@resourceress7 lol
this got a chuckle out of me
FUCK ME 🤣
"Nails? is that all womanhood means to you?"
"Uh-huh!"
I lost it.
Fucking living for this! xD Triggering the radfem terfs.
She nailed it.
ChonosTack *slow clap*
I don’t get it
an actual rat Ohhhh ok thanks
I can't get enough of Contrapoints. Natalie is quickly becoming a national treasure. Her essays are well written and I am constantly laughing.
sadly no longer
@@billyherrington5112 W
how do you mean?
@@billyherrington5112 Why sadly?
u on hormones yet?
Isnt that a guy though? I honestly cant tell anymore but there is this uncanny valley touch
Oh Contra. Once again you've taken a thing I don't know nor care about, and made it endlessly stylish and entertaining. Bravo ma'am
"So much for the tolerant Jacobins" is NOT getting the credit it deserves. Brava.
My tiny brain isn't giving this video the credit it deserves.
And the blink-and-you'll-miss-it Gorilla Girls reference at 0:56 - that was a nice touch.
(link for context: go.distance.ncsu.edu/gd203/?p=24873)
Just happened into some french revolution vids and now to this, again.
Coincidental erudition.
Jacobin ah the French communist revolution led by a man convinced he was a god. Good stuff
Neither is the postmodernnism ‘does a woman have to be naked to get on TH-cam’ joke
This is the first ContraPoints video I watched and that moment got me hooked. An actual postmodern art joke, fucking brilliant
I'm too stupid for this channel but I love it anyway.
@@xyzb4932 nononono, my jordan-peterson-fanboy-dude, if you tell someone to read petersons book, they also should read marx. fair is fair. the communist manifesto should be a good start. if you want to go deep into the primordial slime, go with hegel and feuerbach first. "looking up" is not enough. at least tell them to read a book about marx. and ideally another one about PoMo, but jokes aside. the contrapoints video is brilliantly researched, and you have no arguments!
and seriously the communist manifesto is a good short straightforward read, that was adressed to "the masses" back then, so anyone can do it :) don't feel intimidated it's way less old timey and complicated in it's message than one might think. even if you disagree with marx. read at least a tiny bit.
@@mortimerpenguin I would expect that the communist manifesto is a must-read if you're followings its idealogues anyway, no?
Perhaps his suggestion comes with the presupposition that the manifesto is -already- read.
Can you point to me which part of the points are brilliantly researched? I'd also like to say, if this was enough - then you'd be ready to accept Peterson across the board too, since he's arguably more researched than Contra, no?
@@BlackeSportsAustraliaCS sources in the video description, hombre. More than you’ll ever get from JBP.
How anyone still listens to him after his “you can’t be atheist since you don’t murder” debacle.
@@jaymiddleton1782 Thanks for providing a reply reciting the comment that I replied to.
Perhaps you are the kind of person to stick to 1 philosophy your entire life or career and let that define you, but perhaps you can recognise the ability for somebody to both pass, and evolve from thought. I can't wait to figure out what you said 10 years ago.
@@jaymiddleton1782 Also, that is a very inept comment considering it's entirely devoid of context. I beg you to attempt to listen to him, instead of 3rd party reflections and misinterpretations of his thoughts.
Reading through the comments, and reflecting on my own experience, JP seems like philosophical training wheels. They provide much needed stability in a time of need, they let us focus on the core fundamentals, and eventually experience the joy of actually getting to ride (or live a life with satisfaction). But eventually they stop helping and start hindering, either by becoming a crutch for learning to balance on our own, or simply just preventing us performing better. I'm glad I had training wheels, and don't plan to use them again.
I suppose it's ironic in a sense that JP has helped so many people grow to realize that the best way to grow is to leave his views behind.
What a wonderful analogy
You said it rightly. JP was one of the first people who got me into all this philosophy, psychology and politics but if you are not outgrowing him and can't see clear flaws in his ideas once you are mature enough, then you aren't making any development.
This is a great comment. You learn what you can (and especially in the places you needed the help), your grow, then eventually question the source as you have a new stable place to question from. The next step is realizing that just because you disagree with some points, it doesn't make him or is other point invalid. It should lead then to the place where debate happens.
what is the next step? where does it lead to in respect to values and personality development?
You know, a year ago, when I basically listened to Peterson all the time and was soaking up all of his words, this video hit a different way - as disrespectful. I only mastered to watch like, ten minutes. Today, a year later, I'm still listening to Peterson and going to watch his show in June, but today, this video is funny and great. Watched the whole thing. And damn, you're funny! It's really important to take breaks from listening to just one person, and listen to the other side as well. You become sooo blind if you only listen to the one side. And it's also important to just, not listen to anyone, sometimes. Just emptying your head and disconnecting, to find your own voice and heart again. The doctor's helped me a lot. There are, though, also many things he's said that left me feeling limited as a woman and a person. Might be a case of wrong interpretation, but might also be a case of "relying too much on one person's viewpoint even if they're super intelligent and educated". Although, getting to know both sides' arguments and points of view helps in evolving empathy for different kinds of people, connecting with more different people and appreciating the world as the huge and complex thing that it is.
What I wanna say, anyway, is thanks for the video.
I went on a whole rollercoaster ride with Jordan Peterson (and almost came full circle.) I hadn't heard of him before a good friend of mine that I met in an artistic field of study started to change from being one of my favourite people on the planet to being extra sexist, he was getting frustrated by bad internet dating experiences and spending too much time alone listening to JP. It's like he forgot what real women were and replaced his conception with the ideas of other men on the internet and the women as described by Jordan Peterson.
Like me he had an abusive father so he turned to other methods of parenting himself. He found Jordan Peterson and really attached into him. After listening to him he went from wanting a creative career, not wanting children and being on board with a lot of left politics in regards to issues facing him as a poor student. He went from all that to suddenly using inappropriate words about women he didn't like (calling them bitches, sluts, fat) and just turning into this shell of a person that wasn't my friend anymore. He lost a lot of weight following a keto diet... and even though they say weight loss is good for people - it just made him look less friendly and stressed out. He didn't seem improved by Jordan Peterson. (The only thing that improved was he got a job and previously he didn't have one.) Everything else was a downgrade. He became a worse person and I left the friendship. He became very right wing. He forgot his roots as a struggling student living in a poor area. As soon as life improved for him slightly after getting a job - it's like he disparaged his entire old self and went knees deep into the new ideology.
Some months later I kept seeing Jordan Peterson popping up everywhere. After seeing some videos that confirmed why I wouldn't like him - I also saw some that showed off his compassion, his Paladin nature, his intelligence and skill with creative speeches. I was quite impressed by how he could be both harsh in some areas and incredibly helpful in others. I was curious and open to the idea I could change my mind. I wanted to understand.
I bought his books and read them. It was a frustrating experience. On one hand some parts are so poetic, so genius, so human and inspiring.
I admit I went through a stage of being very endeared to him, almost like a parental crush and definetly had the "I wish he was my father" moment - especially reading the good care he gave to his sick daughter who also has an autoimmune disease. I truly did wish I received such care and encouragement.
On the other hand there is so much misinformation, sexism and the misuse of facts to push his agenda. He seems believable when you don't know the reference material very well. But when he would referenece books or subjects I have read - I felt he often twisted the meaning of tje material out of context to fit with what he is trying to prove. Things in Hinduism and the Tao Te Ching that he mentioned I remember thinking "hmmm that myth isn't actually about that....." But then I would agree with him on the parts I was ignorant on because I would accept he knew more about history etc than me and so his points made sense. That does make me wonder how much I would question his material if I was a little more educated. It made me understand why he's called "the dumb person's smart guy" for exactly those reasons. It is a worry.
Before listening to Jordan Peterson I had already moved from left wing to more of a centrist (the party I vote for is centrist by Australian standards) and I definetly see the issues in the left. I really hate a lot of "politically correct" censored conversation and I get how the left can be tyrannical. I've experienced it as a disabled woman how bullying the left can be if your issues aren't the trendy issues they care about. And how there is little room for nuance. I had a very left leaning friend who would take my lack of support on a topic to mean I must be completely on the other side. Often it just means I am still deciding or don't agree there always has to be a political binary. (The meta to that statement!) I think some issues are very complex and you don't always have to be so simplistic to be for or against. There is often context and complications. I'm not fond of blanket statements. It's not about being ignorant or "needing more education" or brainwashing on the topic. It's insulting how the left just assume if you disagree you must be ignorant. It's invalidating and insulting. But at least they have more respect for me than the right ever will. In Australia in particular most right wing parties vote against sevices the chronically ill and disabled need to survive. They also vote in favor of things that keep housing too expensive and corruption that leads to over development. So many houses are being smashed down for apartments. Anyway that's a huge topic.
I'm glad you're getting benefit from Jordan Peterson. Are you comfortable in the crowds of men that attend his shows?
My partner (straight male, I'm a straight female) listened to his audiobooks and mostly liked them. He agrees with me on the sexism and thinks the books alienate women. They clearly aren't written with us in mind.
I hate the lobster chapter in particular, the only role a woman plays in that example is getting to mate with the most powerful lobster. That is just depressing to me.
@@stariadreamtea Politically correct stuff, ironically, isn't leftist but authoritarian. Authoritarian leftists are the lunatics who may be as conservative as any US right-winger, but also want to control people's speech. Libertarian leftists, on the other hand, are just about giving everyone the freedom to live as they please, which includes free speech in all contexts where it does not cause harm to others (such as defamation or slander, which are crimes in many countries. Free speech doesn't cover damaging lies.)
From how you talk, and the fact that you understand people need fair and proper financial support to thrive, I think you sound like a libertarian leftist.
@@stariadreamtea Oh, yeah, that lobster analogy is so silly and sad too. It's dehumanizing to men and women both, and outright untrue. All the "hypergamy" nonsense that's out there ignores the fact that men are no different from us in the same circumstances. Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs explains it no matter one's sex.
If I say humans are like bonobos, it makes a lot more sense than lobsters, right? We share 99% of our DNA with bonobos. And in bonobo world, bonds between females are the backbone for their whole society. They are matriarchal creatures, and they sure do seem happier than lobsters. ;)
"I need new roommates"
Wait, is this new? Did we know that everyone in the ContraPoints universe are roommates? What are the lore implications of this?
Parallel I have no idea what's canon, what's not!!!! The narrative fluctuates too much!!!!!
The lore implications are that they live in TARDIS like seedy, grungy apartment which continually adds and removes rooms as the number of inmates changes.
Tiffany Tumbles and Tabby are roommates.... I could watch a sitcom about this!
I doubt Nat cares about "canon." So probably nothing
Oh my god they were roommates
That “bisexual manicure” joke is absolutely brilliant.
Ikr!!!
My boyfriend loves Jordan Peterson's self help information, and like many young men who lack a father figure, has found himself really fulfilled by getting this self help info from an older man, albeit one he doesn't know. That said, he doesn't buy into the alt right narrative Peterson is involved in politically. I kinda wish we could separate the man into two characters, because while there is a crossover, I think that one part of his output is very useful, the other less so
my theory is that JBP genuinely did set out to construct a good self-help system for young men, but once he realised how profitable it is to milk the culture war political stuff and stir up the disillusioned, low-self-esteem young men he wanted to help, he just leaned all the way into that (and got paid handsomely for it)
Jordan Peterson isn’t alt right lol
He’s not alt right tho
@@pangiokuhli512 People are depressed because of the lack of values and how modern society goes too hard on empty hedonism while ignoring personal responsability, that entails single motherhood instead of forging families, social media addiction instead of actual virtue, people living lies instead of facing reality and standing up to the role they're given.
It's 2 faces of the same coin.
@@bovineavenger734 and the "free" west is still crowing about its ideals of liberation, democracy, multiculturalism etc. just look where it got them
As a follow up comment: I would like to say that you have one of the best channels when it comes to talking about these very nuanced topics. As a white male, I was in a dark place, not realizing how dark it was for a long time. I didn't realize just how short-sighted I'd been when listening to people like JP, especially when he would go off on his little tirades about neo-marxism and lobsters.
I'd like to thank you again for being that glimmer of light in an otherwise pitch black pit that is social media. Your content has helped me understand just how the history of bigotry not only rhymes but also repeats.
This is an amazing comment 👏🏻
Is it just me or did she basically only criticize his label for the leftist radicals. All yall in the comments like "this is the video that rescued me from conservatism." Am I missing something? Where is the actual criticism lol. In my eyes JP still literally has no bad takes.
@@isaiahizrailov4304 yikes 😂😂😂
@@isaiahizrailov4304 Well there's his constructed "post neo marxism vs the west" which by definition doesn't make any sense since they are both just parts of a whole.
There's also critique of his ridiculous straw man argument of "since nature (lobsters) organize a certain way some form of patriarchy or similar structure is inevitable in human society". Which is a completely nonsensical leap but also weird to formulate a counter-argument against.
I do think the main critique is his way of stating completely true statements within a very ideologically inclined framework. One example is an early presentation he did in which his main point is that the color red is easily gets people's attention, because of red berries in green bushes being food etc. This is not wrong. But then he uses this as a foundation for 15 minutes of implying women's indecensy and evil intent when wearing red lipstick.
@@doop667 This is getting boring. You are just wrong.
His point about lobsters is that the endocrine system is the same even in a relative as distant as a lobster. The endocrine system does not vary significantly across species. It is a big factor when it comes to forming dominance hierarchies in a society of animals. This includes humans. He was not speaking of patriarchy but hierarchy. The comparison is not a leap in logic it is a fact of neuroscience.
He's never said anything about lipstick wearing women being evil either he has only pointed out that it mimics an aroused state of blushing. This is when he was asked whether women should wear makeup to work or not so he offered that information as context to the question.
This is one of the most genuine criticisms of Jordan Peterson I've seen. She actually took the time to understand in good faith why people listen to him and what his ideas are about.
This is how you connect with people on the other side and change minds.
I wish she didn't sexualize him by taking baths with him and calling him Daddy tho
@@joelbedulla4 you know the medicine tastes sourly
@@joelbedulla4 I found it funny, but to each their own
@@cuminthenameofpiss what medicine? I agree with what she's saying. I'm Progressive. I just thought some scenes were unnecessary.
@@joelbedulla4 this channel's trademark is being extra if you didn't notice.
“Let them eat crab cake” was right there in front of you, and you showed more self control than I have in my entire life.
crab cakes sound good
@@brennam954 crab cakes _are_ good
Mmmmmm CRAB CAKES
one of jordan petersons rules for life is : "Do not let your children do anything that makes you dislike them" - he doesn't demonstrate the emotional maturity required of a parent, has assumed a LOT about how adults behave towards thier kids and has removed all accountability from parents for the impact of their behaviour towards their kids - he's not a good child psych nor a a good scientist on this matter
How many kids do you have?
@@MrGerginKSlotterheingreat rebuttal, you got em... smh
That's a vast misinterpretation of that rule. When explaining the rule he does state that parents require a certain level of emotional maturity. He also brings up how parents are responsible for and have huge impact on the behavior of their children.
I hope that's not what he said bc that is terrible wth
Oh lord I googled it and that's literally the rule. Those words
“Anything that makes you dislike them” alright kids time to be fully potty trained the moment you’re out the womb cause I dislike changing your diapers. It’s a ridiculous rule because it’s intentionally vague on what you dislike and what you should allow, allowing space for parents to make ridiculous demands of their children.
Jordan Peterson helped me get my life together. It sounds sad but I never made the connection between responsibility and meaning before seeing his videos. I was depressed and nihlistic. Partially because of him, I went from being an unemployed, depressed 21yo that lived with his parents, to a husband and an independant man his family can depend on. All that being said, I don't care for any of the political bs he talks about. His real expertise is in his clinical phsychology and helping people with depression and such.
It's heartwarming to hear your story and it is a testament of the old Chinese notion that anyone can be our teacher. But I would never seek his help in treating clinical depression and I will just leave this here: "Jordan Peterson's family says he has sought "emergency" drug detox treatment in Russia, after several failed attempts to overcome his dependence on a potent anti-anxiety medication."
Ad hominem. @@Elter92
Ad hominem my ass, his license just got revoked 😂
@@Elter92 that's not what you said in your previous comment
The cadence of his voice, prone to a lot of mid-sentence pauses, makes Peterson sound like he's flustered in the bath scene, and this idea amuses me.
Could you imagine an actual conversation between those two in the bath, Jordan still in his suit and likely uncomfortable but willing, just talking about shit? Having a chat about...well nothing.
Peter Tsunderson.
omg it really does lol
I mean, shoot, who wouldn't be awestruck and flustered while sharing a bath with the Lobster Queen
I’d pay a lot of money to see JPs reaction to this video.
He only said 'No comment' on twitter. like a Coward
@@lucyk8935 which he is.
@@mercury600 well she lied about c-16 so he probably turned it off after two minutes
ME TOO
@@jacobearwood653 ah, yes, cause JP is the standard for honesty
slight correction the interview from the Uk was from Channel 4 not the BBC.
Great analysis. JP got me through a rough patch too, and I never understood the backlash against him. He definitely seems to have gotten crazier.
His cultish following, his pseudo-intellectualism, his bizarre obsession with "cultural marxism" which is a completely made up and meaningless concept and him being part of the social media right wing pipeline never sat right with me
Personally, he strikes me as someone who _did_ want to do good, but because of his pseudo-intellectualism he couldn't properly and concisely define his actual opinions, ideas and solutions, so he spun his career to run off public speaking so he ultimately ended up radicalised by his surroundings and possibly even the need to appease his biggest fanbase.
Unlike the Andrew Tates of the "manosphere", Peterson doesn't seem outright malicious. He honestly seems well-meaning to me, at least at first. To me he comes off as someone who would enjoy discussions for their intended purpose, being exchanging ideas and learning, but for some reason he is always too general, vague and unclear about what he actually means, with the added spice of fallacies like whataboutism.
I think that's why people feel like they're being seen and heard, because what he's saying might be constructed to build off his own opinions as a base, while being vague enough for the viewers to build the rest with their own pre established notions, making his opinions feel like theirs...
_In the end, most of his opinions and actual motives remain unclear._
@@edithputhy4948 I keep seeing this "pseudo-intellectualism" term be brought up everywhere on the internet these days, could it be age or something else that's stopping me from grasping what it actually means - I don't know.
Could you elaborate on what it's supposed to mean in the context you are using it in?
@@DinkleBuul Pseudo-intellectualism refers to the act or behavior of presenting oneself as intellectually superior or knowledgeable without actually possessing the depth of understanding or expertise that one claims to have. It involves the tendency to engage in intellectual discussions, use complex language, and adopt an air of intellectualism without the substance to back it up.
Pseudo-intellectualism often manifests as a desire to impress others with superficial knowledge, relying on buzzwords, name-dropping, or referencing complex concepts without a genuine understanding of them.
I regret him tweeting the most, it seems like he either stopped filtering his thoughts or just didn't put much thought into his tweets. Him without twitter, and mainly, his lectures and interviews is what seem to be the most insightful material coming from him.
When are we going to get a debate between ContraPoints and JP? Or like... a mud wrestling match?
Turkish gravy wrestling mixed with debate
honestly I'd love that
JP doesn't have the balls to debate competent people.
@@narekzograbian7084 Because... he doesn't have the balls to debate competent people. Well, he has done it a couple of times and he ended up spitting quite poor nonsense. But those few records were under paywalls, so their diffusion is very low compared to the times he "debates" with idiots.
@@OfficialJoosty ...As seen on his debates with Sam Harris or with Matt Dillahunty, for example.
@@michellesuarez9587 Tell me a time he has turned down a debate. And saying he was "spitting quite poor nonsense" is opinionated, and really isn't proven to be true, he still used facts, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who believes he was wrong in the debates you mentioned. The only debate you would have a point on is with his debate with that European communist dude with the hard to pronounce name, wherein it wasn't that he wasn't factually accurate, it was that he misunderstood his opponents point of view, and therefore wasn't prepared to accurately go against all of that opponents statements.
Whenever Natalie starts talking about how she's going to be respectful about a subject my mind automatically thinks, "She's either getting in the bath or grabbing a flog."
I'd love to see her flog pseudoscience agitators like Peterson, Vani "Food Babe" Hari, Mr. Oz, Sherri Tenpenny, DeepHack Chopra, and Andrew Wakefield.
Jesus, I could barely make that out
Please, engage with the points raised in the video and refute them as such, sir
anapolis q
Pretty sure it's a he
While I dont like Peterson or his beliefs reading the comments I'm glad he's managed to help people through their darker moments.
people who base their careers on jungian psychology:
tarot card readers
jordan peterson
"So much for the tolerant Jacobins" might be the funniest joke of all time.
Yup. Freaking killed me
As much as they killed the French aristocracy?
Please explain lol
Fedja Mladenovic The Jacobins were an extremist liberal party during the French revolution who had many people killed in order to protect the revolutionary ideals. It's basically a play on "so much for the tolerant left."
elfarlaur ohh thanks, everything got mixed up in my head
𝒞𝓁𝑜𝒸𝓀 𝓂𝑒, 𝒜𝓂𝒶𝒹𝑒𝓊𝓈!
AMADEUS, AMADEUS
A-AMADEUS
LOL Watson and Oliver Amadeus comedy sketch th-cam.com/video/tHImpZWiwtI/w-d-xo.html
I really gave Jordan Petersons book a chance but I ended up tearing it apart. He portrays life as this slog of misery and I just couldn’t handle thinking about life like that. Neutral at best, downer most of the time.
@@rasheedlewis1 Contra says it in the moment 3:27, Jordan says it across the entirety of the book.
Grow up
@@GucciFatSuit Take some Zenex. Life isn’t just misery. It’s not immature to have hope.
@@noahraab2429 I never said it was immature to have hope. Hope is essential. But life is suffering. "We must imagine Sisyphus happy". "Life is suffering" is not an oppressive statement but a liberating one
@@GucciFatSuit You told me to grow up. If I‘m not grown up, I must be it’s opposite?
I don’t just regurgitate what people phrased before me. I‘m not gonna sit there on a shitty day and be like ‚It is what it is, Life is suffering‘. I can accept things without a mantra. Especially one as poorly phrased as that.
My Jordan Petetson phase started yesterday and ended today with this video and others like it🤣⚰
I lost it at "So much for the tolerant Jacobins!"
WITH THEIR GODDAMN MAGAZINES
Someone probably actually said that at some point
"Oh dear, thy Jacobins be chopping people's gullivers in France! Who could ever guess that such tolerant folk would chop off ye good ol' lord's gulliver?" - Some upper class twit, England, 1793
"The Jacobin antifa have finally been stopped, in celebration you should invest in this amazing new south seas company!"
Jack Baker it was walpole all along.
there is torture in knowing just enough to know that someone is wrong but not knowing enough to tell them exactly how they're wrong...I feel as if I can live vicariously through you.
Lorelai M if you ‘feel’ someone is wrong but can’t explain why, that’s called confirmation bias.
@@hawk.86 No, not necessarily. Some people have more verbal facility to articulate their ideas than others.
"Until Americans learn the necessity to learn what they don't know, it rules them out. I was going to show them that they were wrong. And I spent the rest of my life showing people... trying to prove that what is said is wrong. And that's been an enormous waste of spirit and of energy." - Orson Welles
Yeah. One problem is that debating with Petersonians or anybody attracted to this kind of philosophy is that if you are even off by one fact they will pounce on that and use it to discredit everything you've said. So your case has to be airtight, like this video.
It's like the global warming denialists, whom Peterson attracts in disproportionate numbers because he has expressed his doubts about manmade global warming and a lot of these people think it is a liberal conspiracy or it interrupts their isolationist narrative etc. If you don't go into exhausting detail, they will go, "But chart #3 shows that warming has not blah blah blah. You and the entire scientific community are wrong. The end."
Of course, even if you DO go into exhausting detail, they'll usually still ignore you. But sometimes it does work.
@@squamish4244 same on the left side. That's why I, a petersonian enthusiast, enjoyed a broader perspective by this broad, Contrapoints. (Now I don't know her name, I hope it's not Contrapoints, but she-who-can-not-be-named-by-me makes good content). I was afraid she'd be like the typical leftist screaming shit in my ear - but she is not. It gives me hope. It keeps me wanting to listen. It makes me open to change.
Can I just say that as a lifelong communist in my mid 40's, I'm really sick of being blamed for everything 😂. This is great! A friend of mine just turned me on to your videos the other day and I'm enjoying the hell out of them. Thanks for all the great work you've put into this!
Just curious, what country or state that exists today comes the closest to an ideal society in your opinion?
Dam communist, I bet your also Jewish!
@@pretzelstick320not op but not really any tbh.
Communism doesn't work. Sorry to break it to you, bro. As a single woman I can attest to the fact that I'm always on the verge of poverty and losing my housing because I don't "play the game" well enough. I'm just another working stiff that will get tossed into the weeds if I slip up, even once. There are no safety nets. And I'm being taxed to death while barely making ends meet. Eff communism. What a pipe dream.
I laughed when you identified yourself as a life long communist. I thought these people only exited in N Korea, Cuba and China.
God bless American communists.
Basically JP repackages long held Christian values in these vague "its everything and nothing" arguments and places himself to deny any concrete standing. That's incredibly manipulative.
But he wasn't a Christian until recently tho....
What are his "vague" arguments? I saw nothing vague in what he was saying. However I've watch hundreds of hours of his work so maybe that's why I can see his stances very clearly.
9:22 *mom walks in* “what are you watching?”
Me: *closes tab* “Porn. I’m watching porn.”
It's easier to explain.
yo...
....
..yo
what...
...is happening..
...
yo
..
I'm 30 seconds in and you are telling me the entire video is like that?!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA
Alex C no. The entire channel is like that. You get some interesting point of views, engaging explanations, and well-spoken argument from time to time, but mostly, it’s just softcore porn.
Trojan horse says it perfectly. Jordan Peterson helped me out of depression and nihilism while also leading me down a conservative rabbit hole. I wish he'd just stick to the self-help stuff
Conservative rabbit hole? What do you mean?
@@rezapanda608 He means that once the content from someone like JBP draws your attention because of it's interesting points about psychology and self-help, it is nonetheless easy to get sucked into a rabbit hole of content that implies a conservative message also, I am thinking of Ben Shapiro, Joe Rogan, etc. TH-cam's algorithm often leads you that way
@@nixances9894 i see but first what is the problem of that and second you think joe rogan is conservative?
@@rezapanda608 Joe Rogan is not conservative but we are talking about his podcast/youtube videos, where people from all across the spectrum appear, including conservatives
now I don't think it is inherently bad to be conservative... I live in a very conservative country and most people would consider me to be q conservative myself.... but I have to say that when I look at what passes for "conservatism" in America, like Ben Shapiro, PragerU, Candace Owens, Charlie Kirk, I can't help be feel that these media figures are just preying on young, stupid, people in order to part them from their money
@@nixances9894 "joe rogan" lmao you can't be serious 😭😂
As a person whose family was deeply affected by Stalinism, I can confirm that protecting vulnerable groups and using pronouns was not Stalin’s main area of interests
I consider myself pretty conservative but enjoy watching your vids to get an intelligent take on liberalism. It’s nice because it grounds me from becoming too fired up by right wing propaganda.
Leftism, not liberalism. Quite different :)
@@abelabel3664 oh true
I'm a huge liberal feminist and am actively trying to avoid being radicalized, haha😬 Different internet rabbit holes can really suck you into any way if thinking.
@@randohuman5084 being compassionate and respecting their choices and opinions towards their own life...
Out of curiosity what’s your sources for takes on conservative views? Been looking for more just to make sure I’m well rounded
I like JP. So naturally I looked for critique of his to see what he may be doing that I don't notice.
Now I am watching a woman pouring milk over a paper cut-out taped onto a manequin inside a bathtub. I can't say that I wanted to be here but I also can't say that I want to leave.
Love that lol
That's how the road begins my friend...
Welcome to the other side
@Tom welcome to the dark side, love, we have degeneracy😉😉
@@anonymouse7773 Or entartung in German. 😉
Love that for u
"Nails? Is that all womanhood means to you?!"
"... Mhm."
lmao, love you contra
This part feels like it's simply in the video to be made into a reddit reaction gif. I strongly approve
Bill Serkoff I dont understand why you would use the hammer and sickle symbol as your avatar. Under the communist regimes over 100 million people died. How would you react to someone using the swastika as an avatar?
And why is everyone here giving this person a pass?!
HappyDuden Espen communism didn’t do anything wrong
Luke :D are you just trolling or do you mean that?
HappyDuden Espen Poo poo doo doo
Natalie: Who's Jordon Peterson?
*Natalie pauses and takes a deep breathe*
Priceless 😂
Dig your personality and love that you make space for people to agree and or disagree with you while bringing up an excellent level of perspective. Respect.
"Clock me Amadeus." I laughed.
Same. Absolute gold.
jaybone23 loved it :D
As a Jordan Peterson fan i'm honestly thankful for this video because I've always loved his self help type stuff but struggled to figure out why his political videos didn't hit me the same way. This puts into words everything that ive been feeling watching him throughout the years. Thanks so much
@@sabelotoda2 lol just spam Anytime someone dares to disagree with daddy
@@jerm-gv9rv do you have any arguments too proof me wrong ? or do you comment with nothing significant to say every time someone disagrees with mommy ?
@@sabelotoda2
The problem with equating lobsters with humans is that humans have a more dynamic social structure that we are subject to change. Jordan Peterson’s philosophy is fundamentally flawed because it turns out our social roles do influence our actions pervasively and his claims that these hierarchies are biological are misguided at best, and malicious at worst. More psychologists agree that the hierarchies currently in place are more social than biological, compared to those who don’t. Secondly, these beliefs seem oddly similar to the people who believe in white supremacy and patriarchy. Essentially, the hidden claim that Peterson espouses is that these hierarchies are what causes white males to succeed in society more than their counterparts. How come these biological reasons seem to benefit these people the most? Don’t you think it’s idly coincidental? The truth of the matter is that “biology” is just used as a scapegoat to justify this superiority AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM. In actuality, biology does not explain this, history and social norms do. (And that’s not even deconstructing biology and how humans are exceptionally well at escaping their biological limitations) case in point: hormones, medication, how we might even be able to medically change sex in the future, having babies without penetration, abortions, technological advancements.
If our society was rigid and not defined by the social roles in the past, he may be somewhat accurate to say xyz biological action is the cause of xyz gap. Until then, he is purposely ignoring the fact that women and men (for example), did not have the same access to jobs and education as men did (and in a lot of countries, still don’t). Factors are not black and white. Social conditioning and biology may work in tandem to produce a result, but ignoring one or the other would be inadequate.
Additionally, it is always thought that women are more emotional than men, when in actuality, men face the same emotions and are simply more emotionally repressive, which often leads to untreated anxiety disorders. This of course, is a social problem. It’s not like our biology restricts us.
In short, these examples were to show its illogical to solely proclaim focus on biological issues when there are social issues that can be fixed first. Focusing on biological differences causes problems for us socially. In essence: What’s the point of zoning in on these biological differences if we cannot change them? It seems, however, people who agree with Peterson often conflate the two implicitly, instead of stating explicitly their beliefs. You cannot summarize biological averages and expect them to be true for the entire sex or identity group.
Which brings up the next problem. The left is so much more divided than the right. We only pretend to agree on certain issues: mostly because we think the alternative is worse. Conflating the left into even a group of ideologies is fallacious because it would be like conflating fascism and communism. Sure, you technically can do so, there are some similarities, some differences, but in general, it’s very… not useful and is more of a fear tactic than rational understanding of these political positions.
Furthermore, look at how other western countries handle the gender pay gap and you can see that a lot of it is social. Sweden has such a low pay gap for women and men compared to Americans in stem jobs (even if women like certain jobs more).
So Peterson is being misguided at best, malicious at worse. His underlying message is that the institutions that exist are enforced by biology which is simply not true. I doubt he speaks as an biologist or psychologist, and plenty would disagree with him.
@@sabelotoda2
Finally, we can write equality into the laws but until there is a way to enforce it, no one is actually equal. Job discrimination and housing discrimination existed even after redlining ended a couple decades ago. These generations of oppression trickle down. Studies show this. It’s certainly not biological. General wealth and zip codes are the single most important indicator of wealth. That’s not biology, that society.
@@auhng o god nobady is saing that its just biology the problem is the people that insist that its mustly culture when it is not.
Explain the gender equalaty paradox? All the cuntrys in the world that are the must
egalitarian have the must diference in intrest betwen men and woman ther are many many many studis shouind a direc correletion betwen intrest in things vs people amd the leve of testosteron in children that are as young as 1 day old and this keeps manifesting more when they grow older.
Can woman ve inginers and men nurses ? Yes
should they be allowed to and not be discriminated ? yes.
But when you have a free socity with little discrimination and a good economi like the nordic contrys men and woman make diferent decicions in about a 1 to 9 diference and all the attepts too change this too maje it 50% 50% or 40% 60% have faild in the last 40 years there is nothing wrong with that if there is almost no discrimination you are making things worse by leiyng too woman and sistematecly discriminating men with gender cuotas. watch the gender equality paradox documentary and you will see the social scientist making a full of themself and yet they control the narrative for decades.
Again you are arguing against a strawman nobady in there correct mind (including peterson) is saing that culture dose not matter and that woman should not have the same oportunity as men its just that the overwelming amount of evidence shows that less sexism in the culture makes men and woman more diferent and make more diferent decicions not more equal you will steel have woman engeniers and male nurses but they are always going too be a minoraty unles you genetecly modefi humans or wait like a 1000 years (minimum) of evolution too change us.
I'm a fan of JP. But I've been educating myself on left-wing ideas and it has helped me understand a lot of the misconceptions that JP and Ben Shapiro and other right-wingers have about the left, including:
- liberals and leftists are not the same
- marxists and leninists are not the same
- most left-wing activists are some kind of anarcho-communists and not leninists or authoritarians
- cultural marxism isn't really a thing and has dangerous ties to the Nazis
Interestingly enough, some right-wingers like Ben are vaguely aware of the conflict between identity politics and postmodernism, but they see it merely as a contradiction within a single movement rather than a debate between two sub-movements ("which one is it leftists? is race essential or is it just a social construct? HA! CHECKMATE!").
My hope is that the right will in time come to understand these nuances and move on to more productive debates. Ben Shapiro is probably lost, he makes too much money from his show to quit now. But our boy JP might see the light. I also genuinely hope these guys will become more accepting of trans folks as they become more prominent in society. A boy can dream.
I appreciate your comment my dude
Everyone knows the progressives cancelling JK Rowling are not the same as the TERFs, or how the LGBT is trying to kick the G out of the flag because the left always eats their own.
That's the problem when you have no moral values or beliefs because of relativism deconstructing absolutely everything and leaves nothing but a husk.
I appreciate the thought process put into this comment
Holy shit as others said thanks for actually, you know, seeing the other side I guess? These are BIIG points for leftists too. But I honestly dont see a chance for JP not even because "hes too right wing" but he seriously seems damaged from all the struggle he had the last years. All the latest appearances seemed really phased out and again damaged. Would you agree or am I interpreting too much into a few appearances I saw?
@@50733Blabla1337 well now he's been platformed by the Daily Wire and is spending more time socially with people like Ben Shapiro, so it seems unlikely that he won't dive deeper into his criticism of SJW ideology without much reflection, especially trans activism. Honestly the reaction video he put out after being banned from Twitter was viscerally off-putting to me. I could get down with his assertion that he would use someone's preferred pronouns if they earnestly asked him to but that he didn't believe in government compulsion of speech. But there's a turn toward something like hatred in the video he put out about Twitter removing him for harassment.
"I'm not afraid of anything, I just smoked a bunch of PCP"
lmao. certified banger.
holy shit did she just say clock me amadeus????
Fuck yeah she did 😎
Every time I go back to this video, something new catches my eye and slays me
@@glenperk7095 Nice comment, thanks for sharing!
@@glenperk7095 Wow you used a male pronoun rather than the female one: What a fucking rebel that you must be
@@glenperk7095 settle down ma'am.
"I make TH-cam videos because I enjoy mood lighting and set design." LMAO
I love how that it implies she just chose this content at random to discuss. Absolutely hilarious
She makes videos because capitalism affords her the privellege of making money from her living room
Any current of thought has its own sets of inconsistencies or contradictions..... yet smart people are able to clearly see those inconsistencies and some can even put it clearly into words.
Kudos to you, Natalie .
When this first came out, I refused to watch it.
Thank goodness I’m enlightened now 😅
I used to watch JP because I thought I really was attracted to his intellectualism but after watching this video I realize I was just attracted to him as my daddy and wanted to take a hot bath with him while pouring milk and hot tea on both of our bodies. Thank you Contrapoints for helping me come to this realization and identify with what I truly was looking for when watching JP, a hot steamy bath with Kermit the Frog.
Ribbit
This is bloody hilarious 🐸
Wut the fuck??? No wonder why you don't like Jordan Peterson.
@@djgroopz4952 Aw cmon, everyone wants to have a hot bath with Daddy JP while pouring milk and hot tea on both of our bodies. That's the American dream
@@FirstName-ij4uw Was that the American dream all along ?! Nevermind my previous thoughts then ! I'm on board !
I miss 30 seconds ago when I hadn’t read this.
It's kinda wholesome seeing some Peterson fans here in the comments section. Being non-condescending is what makes Contrapoints so effective. Even though I personally don't like Peterson, I can acknowledge that there are some people out there who do.
Agree, I like Jordan Peterson and I was curious about this critic. I watched the whole video because as you said she's not condescending, or maybe, just the good amount i guess
I like Peterson as well, but just because I like someone and think they're smart doesn't mean they're perfect. I want to hear opinions from all sides
@@STLCODPS3123 as long as you dont treat him like some sort of prophet or free-speech martyr, then it's fine.
How can it be difficult / unlikely / unexpected to acknowledge that some people like something that you personally don't. I don't understand your last statement...
I mean, obviously Contra respects him enough to have fun with him in her own way. Like, can you imagine her staging a similar scene with a mannequin of Ben Shapiro or Tucker Carlson?
... I mean she may very well have done something like that, I haven't seen much of her work, but still...
Edit: yeah I'm a Peterson fan, but I also look for non-hit-piece dissents of his opinions because every once in a while I get the same feeling from him as you'd get from a scam artist or swindler. Also, I don't really think he understands why the left is so pissed off all the time.
You put so much work into these videos and it shows every time. Amazing stuff
I've honestly never laughed so hard and learned so much in a video. I appreciate the respect that you pay to the topics that you create content about :)
I remember a few years ago I was falling down the conservative rabbit hole and this was the first proper video from the leftist side of TH-cam that took me off that course. I know you will probably never see it but I'm always extremely grateful for the content that you make
me too
Don't blame Peterson, whose opinions are based on alot more than simply a desire to be a political hack, blame youth and inexperience, and a society that has mostly failed in how to teach young people media literacy in schools.
@@Magnulus76 I don't think Peterson is evil or that he intends harm. I don't agree with him on a lot of things but I don't think his intention ever was to peddle some far-right propaganda. I think he genuinely wanted to help people in his own strange way.
It was largely my own youth and inexperience and inability to look at media critically that pushed me down that path. I absolutely agree with you, but it was also an algorithm that favours that sort of stuff. I've seen it time and time again especially with young men. They start out at something innocuous as gaming videos and descend into anti-SJW compilations and pragerU videos. I'm not saying the algorithm has an agenda or anything like that, but it certainly makes it easy to slip into certain views.
so instead u fell down the left's rabbit hole?
@@LeventeCzelnai You hit the nail on the head. These people are like "I fell down the right wing rabbit hole but escaped" And yet ended up falling down a left wing rabbit hole and somehow think they are "enlightened"
That Peterson face... It's... Too real...
A comment on another video referred me to this one, and I'm so glad it did because you NAILED it. Subscribed, looking forward to checking out your other videos.
Love it, real, engaged, critical thinking that actually empathzies with everyone involved. Also real wit! That's a hard balance to strike, kudos.
"I mean, someone has to whip the neckbeards into shape." - I laughed so loud
A friend I once had recommended I listen to Jordan Peterson. He had a neckbeard. Coincidence? I think not.
I can’t imagine what Jordan Peterson would think if he saw this
Apparently someone asked him on this and his response was 'no comment'
Zigster ABs hahahaha
@@andyrob6565
twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/991752958638546944?s=19
Holy shit. He actually said 'no comment' on Twitter about the video 😂
Probably do that weird 'baring his teeth' thing he does sometimes when he feels threatened in an argument/discussion.
@@zigsterabs7439 no. He tweeted "no comment" and someone linked the video in the commentsection
1st video i have ever seen from u , immediately subscribed off of ur humor 😂😂😂😂😂I’m trying to learn and u got me cracking up
I’m here. I like people like you. I never got into him. I have no idea why. I’ve been here listening to you ever since I found you, to all your vids. They’re so helpful to me.
I'm a Jordan Peterson fan (I use that term loosely, here) and a friend recommended this video. I instantly had reservations but she made a fuckload of sense and I truly appreciate her arguments here. Very well constructed. Well deserving of the platform she has.
@@sabelotoda2 tldr
@@juliaf_ lol 😂 it is a long comment.
@@sabelotoda2 honestly I don't buy this argument. It hinges on the idea that there is a perfect natural hierarchy that exists somewhere between the political left and right in the united states that somehow translates to other countries because sometimes those countries have more women choosing jobs that are associated with certain genders? There is an implication in this word salad, much like with JP's lectures, in which you are trying to lead people to the doorway of a conclusion without owning the conclusion yourself so you can maintain plausible deniability.
So, I will take a page from the criticisms of this very comment and ask you directly:
What are the very important systems and hierarchies that leftist are threatening? What would the repercussions of that be? Why are they, according to this comment, monolithically supported among all of those considered to be "the left"? And how does Natalie's video essay misrepresent JP's views in the name of clout? (this is what the comment you pasted is asserting so I assume your believe this to also be the case?)
@@404schmoozernotfound sorry for taking so long too ansewr.
First i like too say thank for your respectfull ansewr and disagrement we all need too talk tol each other better.
Second english is not my first languege and im dislexic so i apologice for my bad english i hope you undersand me, this is also the reason why i copy a reddit post i agree with beacuse i know i could not do it so well and respectfully like i would like.
There is no secret implication in the word salada there are no dog wisel at least not from my part i cant read petersons mind but i have seen no evidense too say that there is. The only implication is that there are on avrege diference in intrest between men and woman for mostly biological reasons not cultural reasons and the more develop contrys have minimise the cultural difirence and maximise biological diference as a result and there is a planet size of evidense too show this for the last 30 years soo gender is not a social contruct it is part social contruct but not all (look for the norway documantary brainwash or read steven pinker the blank slate).
Well i cant be sure 100% of what the hierarchi are the left threatening beacuse i cant see the future and it is too complicated too be 100% sure of enithing peterson has also said many times that the left is important because they point out when there is too much eniqualaty and corroption but it is hard too tell when is because of corruption and discrimination and when is beacuse of merit and hard work so i will give you an example of the past.
What happend with the Ukraine's Famine look it up as an example of what happens when you take out the most competente people.
The reddit post dose not say that they are monolithecally suported among all dose consider too be the left im on the left sam harris is on the left and many othere people how share some of the same conserns peterson has on the interseccinal left.
The reddit post alrady explains where and how nataly misrepresents peterson.
I have questions for you too but first lest have hypothetical situation.
Let's say that in a country like Norway Peteron is right and women and men are free with the least amount of prejudice possible to do what they really want and at the end of the day in a free country with equal opportunity men and women make different decisions 9 to 1 apart.
In this hypothetical world, wouldn't feminists be creating a system of systematic discrimination against men with their gender quotas? Wouldn't they be making men and women more unhappy by trying to force them to do something they don't want to? Wouldn't they be destroying equality of opportunity by doing this?
What evidence do you need to consider the possibility that this is what is happening right now? What evidence do you need to at least consider another option instead of "positive discrimination" and assume sexism everywhere? Because with the evidence that I have seen I am 90% sure that this is the case at least in a country like Norway or Canada, not Mexico, which is where I am from.
@@sabelotoda2 hmm and someone who works in this field, scientifically, researchers do not know much about whats nature vs nurture regarding the sexes; they have not seen much biological differences regarding how we think., to say otherwise would be arrogant.
come for the degeneracy, stay for the lobster queen single over the credits.
You are an icon and this video is incredible on like 400 different levels. This is ART 🙏🏼 (even 4 years later)
This genuinely enlightened me. I’ve always been pretty left, voted for gay rights (which shouldn’t have to be voted on, that’s why they’re called RIGHTS.) and I volunteered for Bernie Sanders’ campaign. I started to hate social justice warriors after numerous interactions I had wherein I was quite literally called a Nazi by them for NO REAL REASON. it sucks to be called that too, since I’m jewish and had over 30 family members die in the Holocaust. This large woman with a mohawk told me I was a “nazi” in a grocery store because I was shopping with my old roommate, this hilarious giant black guy Crosby; and I said “black” instead of African American. Apparently that made me a Nazi, who propagated hatred and violence. I thought she was joking at first, but she wasn’t. I had many more strange interactions like that where I didn’t say or do anything from a place of hatred, but apparently I was “part of the hetero cis male white fascist patriarchy”. I said I thought stuff like “Otherkin” (people who genuinely identify as like, animals. Ponies. Dogs.) were kind of ridiculous, and that somehow is hateful. I think if you get on all fours and literally bray like a mule, you look ridiculous. Sue me.
but, as always, I come away from ContraPoints having learned a lot. Not everyone who wants social change or to feel accepted thinks that way. It’s nice to see other liberals laughing at ourselves and each other. Contra, you fucking Queen, keep doing your thing babe!
Why is this sort of behavior so common in the modern left? It’s creating enemies where there are none, because questions are now seen as non acceptance, and genuine mistakes or ignorance is interpreted as hate crimes.
_As A ChRiStIaN,_ I get pretty annoyed with the implied contrast right-wingers invoke between "Judeo-Christian values" and "totalitarianism." They say that as if there's nothing totalitarian about "Judeo-Christian values" or the way they were imposed on so much of Europe that they literally ran out of Europe to impose them on.
Thank you.
@False Feathers I don't think we disagree on anything, so I'm not sure what about my statement implies that I'm daft. I said only that I get annoyed at how Christianity, a religion I've identified with my whole life, ostensibly founded to challenge the power of the occupying Roman state in historically Jewish lands and the priesthood that helped them maintain said power, has been used by Christians for the last 85% or so of its existence to advance the continuation of various Roman imperial institutions and values... to such an extent that they had to start looking outside of Europe if they wanted to impose them on anyone else. I never said such behavior was limited to Christians, nor did I imply it. But, given my Christian faith, I'm not just going to quietly look the other way while increasingly materialist totalitarians continue their grand seventeen-century long tradition of using perverted Christian ideology to advance their agenda of violently taking over the world despite claiming to be the enlightened adults in the room. I know very well that Christianity doesn't hold a monopoly on tyranny and totalitarianism, and never has. Nonetheless, I'm going to be harder on them than on others because they're the ones making me look bad and providing abundant examples of worldly materialism and violent imperialism despite throwing Bible verses and graven images of Jesus all over the place, from which I then feel compelled to distance myself, whereas atheist Soviets or theofascist adherents of other religions don't loudly claim association with me to begin with.
Or maybe I'm just daft. I am arguing in the TH-cam comments section, after all.
@@economicist2011 Amen!
So what's totalitarian about Judeo-Christian beliefs? You know that the "totality" in "totalitarian" isn't that you have *a big space you control*, that it actually refers to how close to total control a government is, RIGHT?
As A CHrIsTiAn I appreciate this comment 😂
Wow! I love your combination of deep-dive explanations/intellect, broken up with bits of humor (literally keeping your brain from strolling off…). I actually learned a things from this video (and now I have to rewatch it and research more to really wrap my head around it), but I’m hooked. Thank you! Really great channel & content! (I just subscribed, too)
This video made me realize that literally every time I’ve seen a Peterson fan contradict someone criticizing him in the wild, they inevitably say, “you’re misinterpreting him.” Then, when asked for an accurate interpretation, they refuse to provide one, and insist the other person must simply take in more of his content. It’s a devious little tactic. Fortunately it’s become transparent.
I seriously just thinking Jordan Peterson is trying to have a genuine conversation with people on how to deal with these realities we face (gender, race, class e.t.c) while getting what we want (equality, or better still fairness). Instead these people try to put him into the right-wing box (people who in their view support oppressive hierarchies).
Like when he says hierarchies are something inevitable, and not a social construct, because they manifest even amongst lobsters, if the interviewer had responded with; "so how do we go about structuring our hierarchies so they aren't oppressive?" It would have been a good conversation, instead she jumps to; "so you think we should structure our hierarchies as the lobsters?". Of course he would refute the premise she is setting up for him, she is clearly trying to label him as right-wing so she and the people who believe the same things she believes won't have to listen to what he says, because people who are right-wing are the "enemy" of their ideology.
@@prayerjoseph9776 I can see what you mean; asking about how to structure hierarchies so they aren’t oppressive seems like the better route to take. A hierarchy isn’t inherently oppressive. A chain of command in an organization exists to expedite decision making, and appropriate allocation of resources, for example. It seems to become oppressive when people lower in the hierarchy are expected to sacrifice more, and have less than the people higher up, and then that becomes the enforced norm.
That being said, Peterson could simply choose to explain himself if that were the case, couldn’t he? If hierarchies are inevitable as he says (which I’m willing to concede; humans tend to like patterns and organization), and he wants to figure out how to have equitable hierarchies that ensure the health and safety of all involved, then shouldn’t he just say that? And why is he spending so much time and energy talking about trans people, and adamantly refusing to call them by their chosen names, etc? That seems unrelated to a goal of equitable hierarchies. He may state that his goal is to improve everyone’s lot in life, but his rhetoric doesn’t match up.
@@gido9467 Yes, hierarchies are necessary and they only work well when people get what they deserve, it doesn't matter if it is less or more as long as what they deserve is less or more.
I don't know, maybe he is trying to be moderate, or maybe people aren't consuming, or reacting to that part of his content?
As for the pronoun thing, he made it very clear what his stance was on that, he won't be compelled by others to use words he doesn't want to. In an interview with a transgender person he respected their pronouns because they showed him respect.
If you want people to show you respect, you have to show them respect, you can't just demand that people respect you because you are a human being, and that was what Jordan Peterson was fighting against. Demanded respect, that is tyrannical.
@@prayerjoseph9776 This reply will seem longer than it really is because I included your comment in quotes:
“Yes, hierarchies are
necessary and they only work well
when people get what they deserve…”
And we humans, biased and irrational as we are, can be trusted to arbitrate what someone deserves? Honestly, the entire concept of deserving seems useless in anything besides blatantly obvious circumstances. As it stands, our hierarchy has determined that, for instance, disabled people “deserve” to live in poverty, and to be left to die if they aren’t able to contribute to capitalism as effectively as non-disabled people. Then there’s the, “sins of the father,” angle; does someone’s child deserve to suffer because their caregiver doesn’t earn enough money? The idea of what people deserve seems way too open to interpretation unless we agree that everyone deserves to have their needs met, and that not all needs are uniform from person to person.
“I don't know, maybe he is trying to
be moderate, or maybe people
aren't consuming, or reacting to that
part of his content?”
Seems possible.
“As for the pronoun thing, he made it very clear what his stance was on
that, he won't be compelled by
others to use words he doesn't want
to. In an interview with a
transgender person he respected
their pronouns because they
showed him respect.
If you want people to show you
respect, you have to show them
respect, you can't just demand that
people respect you because you are
a human being, and that was what
Jordan Peterson was fighting
against. Demanded respect, that is
tyrannical.”
If he won’t be compelled to use words he doesn’t want to, then how can he then compel others to show him respect? If Jordan Peterson says I am not compelled to use words I do not wish to, then I am not compelled to speak to him in a respectful manner. Also, that means I’m not compelled to call anybody by their name, or refer to a male as a man, or a female as a woman if I don’t wish to use those words.
The difference in the case of transgender people is that he’s not simply denying them respect; he’s denying their personal experience, and denying they understand themselves better than he does. It could only be the same thing if trans people, en masse, were telling Peterson he isn’t a man, and refusing to call him by his name. It’s not disrespectful; it’s downright weird.
@@gido9467 Who else are we going to trust? Everybody is in constant negotiation with each other to get what they feel they deserve, "I will give you X if you give me Y", of course the exchange won't always be 100% accurate, you might lose a bit more sometimes, and gain a bit more other times, but as long as people are honest with themselves and willing to trust others it will work out fine.
It is a sad reality, that some people are born with or are afflicted by disabilities and disadvantages, and therefore aren't able to contribute much, this is where I believe families are important, because honestly if you ask people that are not closely related to them to start taking care of them there will be some distaste after a while, this is just human nature.
As for the "sins of the father", do children who's caregivers are wealthy deserve to enjoy?
You said in the beginning that humans are biased and irrational, so who exactly is going to have everybody's needs met?
Sorry, compelled by force, that's why he called out bill C-16.
I honestly had no idea what “postmodern Neo Marxism” meant and always though it sounded like word salad. I’m glad my intuition was accurate and I wasn’t just going insane.
Your intuition was accurate based on someone on youtube agreeing with it? Germans smash words together to describe new things all the time
SyndicShadow well no based on someone educated giving a sound explanation as to why they’re conflicting ideologies
@@lottiesmith3643 Even apparently conflicting ideologies can come together in strange ways. All depends on which parts you take from each one... kind of like trans people deciding which male and female traits they need to combine
SyndicShadow except it’s not a legitimate movement, it’s merely a slur used to discredit and vilify anyone or anything perceived as left/liberal (even though the Left encompasses a broad range of conflicting ideologies).
@@SyndicShadow you literally cant be a post modern marxist. Its an oxymoron
So much for the tolerant Jacobins is the best sentence I've heard in years
I’m currently in the phase of my life where I am moving away from my old alt-right beliefs. I used to be transphobic, homophobic, and racist without even realizing what I was. I never wanted to be those things but because I adopted views from people like Peterson who I believed to be intelligent I could hide from the truth that I was speeding hate. This comment really isn’t going anywhere it’s just more of an admittance and a promise to be better.
Everyone loves character growth 👍
i'm very happy for you
Thank you and all the people making these videos possible. Not to be to dramatic, but i wanna cry out of joy watching every video on this channel now, ok bye. Thank you so much and stay awesome!
No wonder Jordan Peterson likes to talk about lobsters so much...he's a shellfish person.
I'll show myself out. Thanx. ❤️
Dane Boe you made me remember your old videos and made me happy. Thank you.
Dane Boe wtf are you doing here
Wait, you’re still around Dane? AND you watch Contra? I’m getting whiplash from the shock.
That's the best joke is I have ever heard
Dane Boe I think I remember the shellfish joke from how I met your mother
Ironically, he helped me realize I'm trans: "People are complicated! We're not transparent to ourselves at all! That's why we have to go to universities and study psychology - we're not exactly black boxes, but we are the most complicated things there are! We can't even program our VCR clocks, so how the hell can we propose to understand ourselves?" This statement helped me accept that I, as a human being, am not as perfectly rational as I thought I was. I am not a conscious being but a conglomerate with a consciousness and a subconsciousness, whose messages must be taken into consideration. Choosing to transition is the only decision in my life I did not base on logic but on what my subconsciousness made me feel.
Woah, interesting
Nice! Personally I've never thought he should be seen as a political figure. He's a psychologist by trade, and in that area of expertise he is a bottomless well of knowledge and all-around incredible teacher of the subject. Politics has never been his specialty and I wish his image was more built around his psychology/philosophy studies - but I guess that's the bone he's been thrown by the TH-cam algorithm, and he's just making hay while the sun shines.
@@ajfrost3382 mml
@@ajfrost3382 he is a Hitler fan and this undermines everything he says and does BLACK LIVES MATTER MARX IS RIGHT
@@somebodyontheinternet5344 This is the kind of person who oppose him with little of knowledge about him
A friend referred me here, and I follow Peterson a lot. Just wanted to say this made me laugh more than I thought it would be, as I was expecting a laughable response just characterizing his most memorable lines.
On another note, I feel like some of the arguments he makes that you tried to explain do, in fact, sound irrational out of context. We can take the hierarchy argument for the sake of an example. Inside the metaconversation and context of that interview, his argument can indeed be boiled down to "any hierarchies are natural and they all predate western civilization, therefore they are not sociological constructs and must be kept". Although, if you look at his other interviews that offer a different context, he does make it clear that tyranny and unjust hierarchies that are powerborne and the like are to be frowned upon and analyzed further.
Awesome video and great insight, definitely subscribed!
"Who's Jordan Peterson?" *deep sigh*
You know, that actually sums it up pretty well.
Pepe Silvia's been making the rounds!
ikr
we've got boxes full of Pepe
Hi Nostalgia Chick!
Make a collaboration video damn it!
CAROL! CAROL!
I am a real fan of JP (not of Shapiro, Milo, Rubin, etc. although I like Joe Rogan) and I think this is a much needed counter-weight to the political mush that JP excretes when it comes to "Postmodern neo-Marxism." His takes on gender, trans ideas, and activism are seriously underdeveloped and dispensable. What I have benefitted from is his insights on personal development, spirituality, personality, and history. However, I also am beginning to realize that there is a lot to learn in the wide realm of higher education and while JP has provided me an enlightening doorway into these things, I will not defend his shortcomings out of pure sentimentality.
I dont think we can compare Joe Rogan to any of those other people you've mentioned, he's an open leftist and said he's going to vote for Bernie.
@@pierrolosapio1042 yeah i agree, it was just sort of the "intellectual dark web" association between those people I guess. Its concerning to me how there needs to be some secretive-sounding label (IDW) tying together people just interested in deep ideas and honesty. However, Rogan did also recently say he would vote for Trump over Biden...
It’s very healthy to take what is beneficial to you and discard what is obvious bs. I think JP has some good insights too. He knows nothing about gender issues and should learn before talking. Same with Marxism and postmodernism. However, I think telling people to relate back to spirituality and develop a discipline to help them make their life meaningful is CRUCIAL advice for these times.
Everyone is problematic, some more than others, so I never understood the need to latch onto everything a specific individual says without question. I think it relates back to us all wanting to find meaning and understand the world through a narrative, but who really knows.
Care to share about why his insights on those things are wrong? Cause I’m watching this video and her criticisms don’t seem valid at all. For example, I am personally friends with many Marxists as it is becoming more popular and they absolutely hate the US and capitalism everyday they are posting a non nuanced point about incidents and pushing for revolution yet she’s saying it’s a nazi conspiracy?
As I’m watching she just said private business HR don’t share those views as like an “AHA! I POKED A HOLE IN YOUR THEORY” yet she didn’t... Business take the knee because they will get torched by these leftists.
Huge Jordan Peterson fan here, I don't agree with all of your arguments, but then I don't agree with all of JP's arguments either. And like many of the other commenters here, I would pay big money to see you on his podcast! Great, funny video 👌
I come back to this masterpiece from time to time, fucking hilarious and genuis at the same time
Also, I really appreciate you putting a face and a name to a lot of these concepts and then making sense of it all. It takes a lot of research and...patience..lots and lots of patience that honestly I really just do not have either of. You are a precious resource to this world.
She's the best.
"Like hearing Jordon Peterson talk about the Western tradition but they dont seem to like reading any of it themselves" - Holy shit this is great.
@John Doe so true
Markos Mendoza nah that's shit tbh
@@countof3everybodyOD With that level of articulation, you obviously haven't read up on it either, huh?
@@Godzilla-se8in Writing with such pedantic articulation, I hardly think a person such as you is well acquainted with any philosophy, let alone the classics.
PLEASE COME BACK MA'AM the world need you
you must be new, you gotta wait a year for each video..
I‘m in my first year of cultural studies and the quote of postmodernist answering with a quote of Butler is sooo accurate that it hurts…
Peterson uses the term "post-modernism" in such specifically vague manner that he might as well be a Tarot reader
He doesn't If you dont know what post-modernism means ...
@@broly425 postmodernism is literally vague with a loose definition on even an academic setting
@@astradewoodvale159 if that's the case what makes his interpretation of it invalid then?
@@cruzgomes5660 It’s because he’s weaponizing terms that doesn’t even have a clear definition and nearly 99% of the human population doesn’t even understand for his political rhetoric. This is pretty much the same thing as that republican blaming cancel culture after he has been exposed of grooming underage women for years.
@@astradewoodvale159 well first of all looks like you totally forgot the point of why cancel culture is critiqued in the first place