His videos being entertaining, informative and good quality is the exact reason why he's not popular and will never be, because that's how modern TH-cam works
I'm sorry but your comment doesn't make much sense. The Vaccinator is a medigun. All of the mediguns works the same. "Fighting against" any mediguns is the same "strategy". So, it's hard to believe the vaccinator really makes that much of a difference.
@ in simple terms: if you hit all your shots on other mediguns, they will drop even with the constant healing and overheal The vaccinator denies most of that damage, you could hit all your shots while the enemy miss all they want and you’d still end up losing The vaccinator also has a faster Uber rate so it makes the “win any one enemy encounter” button even more expendable along with just spamming cycling the resistances The counter is just focus fire which is already super hard to come by in pubs or use the enforcer Basically: you can still win if you’re way better when you’re fighting a normal medigun because it’ll be unlikely they’ll waste their Uber on one person. The vaccinator on the other hand could cheese encounters and there’s almost no risk to using the Uber due to how fast it charges.
@@jaumesillozzo the vaxx prevents you from dropping the med, when you get the spring on him he just pops a resistance and runs away. You're limited to the same strategies but now the medic can just avoid any damage you may output if he has at least one charge (which they almost always do) (even if you're playing as pyro/soldier with a shotgun, they only need 2 to resist everything you can output).
+ because it has the same damage and the same amount of pellets as stock it doesn't suffer as much in damage as other scatter guns Also it doesn't have dumb knockback and it's accuracy is the exact same as stock if I had to choose an unlock over stock the soda popper gets the spot for me just because it's surprisingly consistent
not a single person sleeps on it. literally everyone knows that the soda popper is cracked as shit. the only reason no one uses it is because of consistency and the fact thats its banned due to how powerful it is
@@AkiraSatou it’s banned in comp because of the ability, but even still it’d be a niche strategy at best. The scattergun is just way too important especially in 6’s.
I find the worst parts about the Vaccinator are A) most classes are restricted to 1 damage type + melee and B) the Vaccinator is the only medigun that lets you do the objective while ubered
@@JackNick2000 I can agree on that part at least, especially since the quick fix can’t do it so it’s a double standard. I would be fine with that feature removed.
Another few problems I find are that it charges uber while an uber is active and also it can stack multiple damage types for short periods of time which is really tereible to deal with. Few medics have it down but the ones that do make me want to bash my head through a wall.
The vaccinator trades team pushing ability for the ability to pocket one dude and let him win 1v1s easier. It's balanced, you just need to stop trying to win 2v1s.
@@WalumancerThe difference with that Medigun is that it's not a survivability effect. Since capping probably means most of the enemy is dead anyway, using Vacc charges to guarantee a win feels cheap when any other effect could be countered, especially since the Vacc will almost always have charges. Worst case scenario with Kritzkreig is that the pocket is playing DOOM while every player on the enemy team focuses them down to kill them, which will probably kill the Medic anyway.
I only use stock because everytime I fire that gun at someone my pecker gets a little more excited, while the panic attack doesn't give me the same rush. To each their own
You can stack all three, but you want to avoid stacking them because if you are constantly in situations where you must stack you are either positioning wrong or in a situation where stock is better
4:56 and THAT is the exact reason I love gunboats. It just allows to do insane and hilarious shit with beggar's like flying across an entire map and confusing everyone in a server
@@RealRoid I love the gunboats too, beggar’s jumping is awesome. I was mostly pointing out that most gunboat users treat them like none of the other secondaries are worth using.
My big Hot Take: No Weapon in the game is more overrated than the Frying Pan. I can’t stand how much people glaze it non-stop, and that’s for just a Stock Reskin.
while i can see why you picked the stock scattergun for scout, it's praised so much for good reason, it's consistently good, has the highest tube size, and doesn't have any gimmicks. It deserves the praise 100%
@DashM-O it deserves praise, it is the best, it should be the most used. I called it overrated because so many scouts think it’s the only good option at all, as if you’re an idiot for using anything else. Which is not the case because the others are all very good in themselves.
@@indigomer you're justified in calling it overrated, the soda popper exists and at it's skill ceiling it's objectively better than the scattergun in dps, burst and the hype making you win almost every fight you use it in if you can move and strafe well
@@twpsyn No it really isn't objectively better. First off DPS is completely relevant on Scout, it simply doesn't matter because Scout is a burst damage class. The Scattergun is typically considered better because it has better sustained damage. Basically imagine you're in 1v1 with another Scout. You're using the Soda Popper and he's using the Scattergun, you fire both shots and hit both, but he's still alive. Well now he can just win the 1v1 for free while you're reloading because he basically has a bottomless clip compared to you. The only way the Soda Popper is considered better is if you're comparing them in a sterilized testing chamber, but in practice the Scattergun is better. The hype is extremely good against Soldiers and Demos, but Scout is already really strong against them at high levels of play so it's better to stick with the primary that is most effective against other Scouts.
Entirely disagree with the vaccinator claim. 25% vaccinator Uber takes less time to charge than any other Uber, blocks enough damage while healing the target to basically make them in vulnerable, and you can even make a gun spy out damage a heavy with the vaccinator. It is the freest win in the game for the medic’s team
@@shardzard2365 a vaccinator uber is not invulnerable, I have had pockets die to their resisted type more than a few times. The charges are faster than full charge on other mediguns but they’re balanced out by only lasting 2 seconds as opposed to 8. And I would be confident in saying that a gun spy under quick fix could probably out damage a heavy, the revolver is no slouch.
Tbh, I expected low effort slop, brain dead balance opinions, just like a different top 10 most overrated weapons on tf2 vid. But I’m pleasantly surprised. A discussion of meta fetishcism? Not saying that the weapon is bad, just pointing out theres other options? Not putting down people who use it? Nuance in a video essay in 2024? Fucking incredible. Keep cooking. You have my sub.
Good video quality, only one issue: about half of the reasons you gave for why any given item is overrated was "it's boring" or along that line of thought. That's not helpful, it's not even an opinion, it's barely an argument worth mentioning. Half of the video is a valid discussion such as the scout and medic segments. Good arguments. Then you say wrangler is boring, as if being a stale meta pick is always entirely uninteresting without exception. I did agree with most of your real points though. You did not take into account that jumpscare heavy is the way to play tomislav, however.
@@wazoo41 I would say “it’s boring” mostly because of those items which are good in their own right, but if they were half as good as people make them out to be you’d never see other options. Also the wrangler isn’t boring, it’s broken. Unbalanced, overpowered.
@indigomer i personally think the wrangler should be split into two weapons one that gives a shield at the cost of rate of fire, and the other that increases rate of fire bit makes the sentry more vulnerable to damage. That alone would fix it and give the engineer one more weapon and more nuance for what to choose for what situation.
@ I think the shield should just be gone. Sentries are hard enough to kill with all the tanking and cooperative engineering, they don’t need any resistances stacked on top.
I think Medic's most overrated item is easily the Ubersaw. Yeah, it's 25% uber charge on hit, but the sustainability and versatility of the Amputator outclasses it IMO. You can heal yourself up, heal crowds at a time at the same rate as the stock medi-gun, and you don't have to be in the enemy's face to get value out of it.
No, gaining Uber is better than the medic having to barely give the team any HP with no overheal or Uber gain, and that health regeneration thing while holding it out barely does anything and healing your teammates literally heals you more than holding it out.
Medigun and crossbow outheal the amputator in 99% of situations. Also, crit heals and building Uber. Anputator is only good in 100 player servers where large groups of people assemble at one spot. Amputator is still a gimmick weapon in casual servers, and inferior to ubersaw.
I think Ubersaw sucks cuz "it gives u uber!"Nah. It's worse for direct combat than stock. The only people you're getting uber off is foolish spies, and those don't exist if they're good at the game.
I think what makes the stock Scattergun so popular is that, ironically, by following that meta you're able to experiment more with your other weapons/unlocks and still see success. It's hard to run Shortstop without pairing it with the Crit-a-Cola for better ranged damage, it's hard to run FaN or Soda Popper without a pistol's spray 'n pray damage to clean up your inevitable botched kills (also doesn't hurt to have some sustainability thanks to their clip sizes), and the BFB begs to be paired with DOT weapons like the Wrap Assassin and Guillotine while making mobility options like the Winger or Atomizer feel nigh useless. All these primary unlocks have obvious synergies and if you ignore them you're bound to struggle more than usual. With the Scattergun, you can run pretty much whatever else you want, get your use out of them, and you'll still have all your bases covered thanks to the SGs reliability. Also it's the only primary with more than 4 shots in the mag and that's a pretty big deal I don't hear brought up enough. Heard it parroted too many times that "the Soda Popper has a faster fire rate and reload, so it's basically just a better stock." while completely glossing over it's 2 shot capacity like it's no issue. Maybe it's just me, but I have seen a lot more Scouts running the other unlocks as of recent. The BFB seems to be especially popular now. Makes sense since it's too much fun (even in it's less than ideal state). Nothing beats a good match on cp_standin with the BFB equipped. they go together like chocolate and peanut butter, I swear.
I will say, in my testing the BFB doesn’t *need* the DoT weapons though they do work nicely. You just want a damage dealing secondary in general. I myself prefer the pocket pistol because the faster fire rate feels excellent. Also because to me the biggest downside of the BFB has nothing to do with boost but rather the magazine capacity.
I completely agree with the gunboats, and the powerjack is not overrated it's exactly good, the only thing making scout an mance and heavy so bad is speed so anything giving you speed is very good
@@DaveMillerDsafReal I don’t think s blanket statement like that is all that true. The powerjack is not bad by any means but the speed boost is so small that it doesn’t outclass the other good melee options
The thing with the scattergun is it is the best primary in 90% of situations, that’s why it’s so highly rated. All of them can work, but they force you to play to their strengths whereas the scattergun is versatile and can do just about anything. The others are definitely useful and I’ve had a lot of fun dominating with the back scatter. I think the real overrated weapon scout has is the pretty boys pocket pistol, because I see way too many people who genuinely it’s a tier above every other secondary.
This is true. And I did say in other replies, it being the most used in general is not surprising. It’s more to the fact that 80% or more of scouts use just that and nothing else.
With all respect there's difference between overpowered/good and overated. Wrangler is absolutely broken, vac is absolutely broken, piss is absolutely broken and thier so good it makes them boring. NOT overrated. But i the only point i agree had to be minigun it just feels more satisfying to use.
The way you talked about the Tomislav is such a breath of fresh air. I'm so tired of people being so objective with how they rate weapons. The whole point of how TF2 balances its unlocks is allowing you to form different playstyles and using what you personally like the most. Good vid. I don't agree with all your picks but overall your thoughts were well-explained. Small tangent, but I definitely think the "e-sport-ification" of TF2 (Meet Your Match) contributed to people taking the balance of weapons way too seriously and focusing way too much on winning and topping the scoreboard (as you mentioned in the Scout section). I mainly play TF2 Classic nowaways, but I queued into a Casual 2Fort lobby recently for fun because I just wanted to play around with the Classic rifle for a bit. The amount of bitterness, rage, and sweatiness in the chat was mind-boggling to me. Someone was lambasting my team's Medic for not being "good enough", people all around were raging after getting killed, and in general it all just feels so vitriolic and miserable. Felt like those Skial rage videos to me. There were definitely sweats back in the day before MYM, but holy crap it's just gotten way worse since that.
I dont want to argue about anything i just want to make something clear: let say a heavy is being atacked by 3 demos, each shoot a pill and kill him 100x3=300 Now lets add the vaccinator to the acuation The demos need to dump their whole clip into the heavy (100-75) 25x12=300 Now lets say the granade launcher fires every half second, and say that vaccinator heals 24 per second, that makes it so every second pill of one demo makes 1 damage effectively un other words you need arround 33% more pipes to kill a heavy just because a medic pressed M2 and yes you can do it whit stock, but once the 8 secons are done they are dead, 4 vacc uvers las 8 seconds but can recharge mid uber too and blocks 100% of crits (just to make it so much fun to fight against) if having to change class to kill a sentry is annoying imagine having to do the same for 2 moving targets Sorry for all the rant, i just really undestand everyones pain whit this weapon and hearing someone saying "is not that bad" just sounds wrong, and dont take this as an attack the video was really fun to watch, its just that that was a little of a very hot take
As a baby faces blaster main i wish scout players gave his other primaries a real chance. I'd even say the BFB is on par with stock in certain situations.
8:12 Baseline yes. Demoknight is braindead if there’s 0 counters and you’re free to get kills as you please. Eyelander is easiest to get kills because the crit guarantees a pick while your speed and hp lets you go freely. However, to have Demoknight work effectively in any team comp is much more difficult and easy to counter against more competent teams. Also if I were to choose an overrated Demoman weapon, it would be the Iron Bomber just because of similar reasons as the Original.
I stand by the eyelander to be overrated but it was pointed out to me shortly after upload that the iron bomber would have been a better pick, because it’s so close to stock it might as well be a reskin.
2:15 YES BFB REPRESENTATION, im serious when I say this you play ground scout like I do the speed boost is so heavenly even if it doesn't last that long, honestly to rebalance it to make it better to just make the loss of boost not as low so you dont lose it easily and even better, let it keep 6 shells
@@applekhi3962 biggest draw of the BFB is the magazine penalty. I myself am okay with the damage as it is because you lose boost fast and gain boost fast. I love that thing.
@@indigomer (sorry for the hella late reply) I understand but to me I feel like it's too easy to lose ALL of your boost because 25 damage is a threshold that's very easy to get which and it can kill your momentum very easily, therefore I think it's fair to have it require 75 damage to lose all your boost and if you double jump you only use 35% of your boost tho in your other video ik you did mention that you're still the fastest class, that is true but that lost of all your boost can truly be a death sentenced at times
@ My experience is the opposite, actually. The biggest thing I try to get across to people is that zero boost is not a big deal at all. Partially because you’re fast enough to be a problem and all it takes is 25 damage to match a stock scout. But I understand why people consider the boost loss to be a bit extreme.
@@indigomer that's valid but ofc its usually personal preference and experience but we can both agree on one thing.....the loss of 2 shells is arguably a bigger handicap than the constant speed loss, ngl it may be why losing boost so easily is such a frustration to me- cuz constantly having to recently is such a pain especially for longer sustained fights
For spy, i am honestly sick of kunai and dead ringer. I see 90% of spy mains use this when it's only good at getting cheap and scummy kills when they disguise as scout for the 123rd time, it would be awesome to see spies actually experiment with loadouts and actually be, you know SPIES, being a menace through stealth instead of tanking several pipes to the face
It’s for this reason I advocate for a modernized disguise kit with more acting tools. If half of the spy mains don’t even try fooling people anymore then clearly something is fundamentally wrong with that tool.
@@indigomer I mean, there’s nothing you can really do about people shooting each other randomly and killing the spy (unless you gave him a 99 damage resistance, which they will still notice the hit sound)
Yea, I use every spy weapon and I have a very flexible playstyle so I can easily swap between being an aggressive trickstabber and a sneaky disguise acting menace. But out of the two I prefer to be more sneaky cause i find it more fun and rewarding. Especially when I fool the enemy medic with my disguise and stab them after they jump in front of me.
As a semi-Pyro main I agree with the Powerjack pick, the amount of times people seem to completely overlook the Axtinguisher and Back Scratcher just because they want that extra movement speed is crazy, personally I think the three are equal in terms of the slot, the only times I see people not put the Back Scratcher as a good alternative is in competitive mainly due to the existence of Medics and even then it's useful.
8:28 Heavy is my most played class (I cant say I main him tho, i play spy just as much) And imma be honest, I don't like the Tomislav, the slower firing speed doesn't feel like 20%, it feels more like 50 - 60% which makes the weapon feel way more punishing than almost any other minigun except the heater, the heater feels way too punishing. Imo Heavy's best to worst Miniguns are Stock/Iron Curtain Brass Beast Tomislav and Heater My go to is either Iron Curtain or Brass Beast (Im not ranking the Natasha, that gun is just unfair to fight)
The Tomislav is the best minigun if you're using a lunchbox item, and since lunchbox items are a key part of Heavy's meta, the Tomislav got confused with the best minigun in general. Heavy's meta in general is so set in stone and has been for years that shotguns have sprung around to being superior if just for the surprise factor.
I'm glad i found this video! It definitely was interesting and i agreed with some of your takes ! You definitely earned a sub plus bonus points for the Turbo Dismount OST used :D
I have to disagree with the scout one I believe that the pbpp is way too overrated, the healing isn’t as crazy as people make it out to be and the winger does more damage which is probably scout’s most underrated weapon
To a point I think you’re right, but truth be told I don’t see scouts running that thing nearly as much as mad milk. And I myself prefer the pocket pistol, not for the healing but that fire rate just feels better.
Whenever I have the rare occasion of playing spy I only disguise if I need to kill a sentury nest because I don't really have My time where I use the disguise I also normally have the spycical
Ngl, the only reasons for scouts not using other weapons, other than soda popper, is that they are straight up inferior. BFB makes the classes that counter you the most, counter you even more. Backscatters inaccuracy makes you do nothing on mid range, FaN is near unusable thanks to knockback outside of meming around. Scattergun is simply better and more forgiving. The only unlock that beats scattergun is Soda popper, that weapon is a straight up direct upgrade, but it requires good aim, and punishes you way more harshly than stock, so nobody goes for it as well.
I think you missed my point with that segment. The other unlocks are not upgrades, but the difference between all of them is nowhere near as great as people make them out to be. Soda popper and short stop are so close one could argue they’re comparable. FaN and BFB are a bit lower but if you actually learn the nuances of how to use them, you can team wipe with those. I know this, because I use and love both of them. My only Hale’s Own is the Force a Nature, and my BFB is about 4 and a half thousand. Back scatter isn’t used much because the gameplay isn’t any different or more interesting than stock, and it’s worse because of the magazine size. But in the ideal situations with stock, you’re still set up for success with it. I have seen a couple top scoring scouts who were hipsters and using the back scatter. All of scout’s primaries are great in their own rights. Scattergun is king, but the rest are *not* far behind. Unlike what the community leads you to believe.
Degreaser is the most overrated option on Pyro. It's useful, but 30% switch is not that big in reality and the cost of having much less afterburn damage to rely on makes using shotguns with it completely pointless. But I've seen so many people thinking it's better than stock just because it switches faster. Like, sure, it's not like Pyro has any other was of fighting other than combos.... .
@@aanproduction1516 that would have been an acceptable answer too, though I think the switch speed difference does actually have some purpose depending on the playstyle.
honestly, that 30% really comes in handy on multiple situations. but granted thats because i overuse flares and axes and particle manipulation is hard.
one thing to mention is that 5/9 weapons are hard meta in Sixes or Highlander or both and some people don't like to bother with weapons that are banned in the main format that they play
I mean I can see that being semi-relevant but I’m pretty confident in saying most people don’t play competitive leagues where certain items are banned from use.
12:29 The reason why people dislike this so much is because this requires team coordination in a game almost entirely designed around players mostly working around their own selfish agendas, and teamwork mostly being emergent. Most people log onto this game to just play their favorite class and getting frags or a killstreak, and for most of TF2, that's perfectly fine as long as you're not stacking more than two spies. The vaccinator punishes the enemy team for having that kind of individualized playstyle, and that's not what most people find fun about TF2. The other strategy for dealing with the Vaccinator is going for melee hits, and for most players, that means switching to Spy or Demoknight. Problem is that weapons that force the enemy to switch classes in order to beat also fuck with the game's design philosophy, as it means switching off the class that's your favorite and that you want to play. Aside from not stacking Spy and making sure your team has a Medic, TF2 mostly tries to avoid forcing players into those kinds of choices, and Valve's said that directly. It's not OP, people just don't find the counterplay fun cause it turns the game into Overwatch.
I'll be real, I think your argument for demo knight is fair, but only applies to CTF or games that don't have an end timer, because there is a lot more counter to demo knight then just pyro or engineer, examples? A soldier rocket jumping away, a scout dodging a demo knights melee (even with 5 heads, its not hard), medic just ubersawing... anyway, sniper jarate bushwacka, heavy.. well heavy, pyro obviously airblast, engineer minisentry or sentry base, spy? Trickstab or get screwed idk, and demo himself just use the half zatoichi. And obviously player skill is 100% needed for consideration ofc. This is also going under the assumption that the entire enemy team is just stupid, which 9/10 time's out of 10 isn't the case? Sadly anyway, The reason why demo knight is good on a fair few CTF maps at least is because of close quarters, that's.. frankly it Demo Knight THRIVES in close quarters combat, plane and simple. Do I think it's overrated? Probably but for specifically demo as a whole I'd argue the iron bomber is more overrated, similarly to how you describe the Original ironically
@@TheRedzMann Yeah in hindsight the iron bomber probably would have been a better choice, but a big streak for eyelander is still easy to get even against everything you said. Mostly because when stuff gets dangerous, a full headed demoknight can just run away. Being faster than everyone except a baby face scout, having a max health of 235, 50% blast resistance and 30% fire resistance, you can reliably escape all but a couple remedies. Even if the streak builds very slowly because you have to keep running in and back out, it’s still very easy to do because almost no one is going to be able to actually kill you, they can only make you fuck off for a short while as you go recharge. But the iron bomber would have been better because it’s literally stock. Like the difference almost doesn’t exist.
@@indigomer Trust me, from experience it is not as easy to even get to the 5 streak, like if you get there then yes.. it is easier to play a melee class but at the same time, it's not hard to kill a demo knight at the same time. Because yes +Speed-MeleeClass is really good and with enough skill you can easily live for a while, but I rarely even see that in game, let alone do it myself am I just unlucky or bad? Probably but tbf going off how you describe it sometimes I should be getting it 70% of the time lol Either way glad we agree on the Iron bomber lmao
@ oh that is something I neglected to bring up, the first 5 is not quite as easy because you don’t have the speed or health to run away from all your problems. So the first 5 is about the same as most other play styles. But once you’re beyond that threshold it stops being difficult.
Unexpectedly when I uploaded this four days ago I had about 690ish. I got an enormous boost, and I have no idea why the algorithm blessed this nothing-sandwich of a video.
scattergun is the best general option for high sustain damage and great burst but soda popper is just straight up better, there's a reason it's the only scout primary banned in 6s. it has insane burst damage and doesn't push your target away like FaN does, and the hype makes you unkillable if you have good movement and air strafes. loch-n-load being considered underrated is p funny considering in most scenarios it's just straight up better than stock/iron bomber vaccinator is awful in pubs because there isn't coordination. forcing focus fire from multiple damage types to counter it is why people hate it, in most pubs there are 1-2 players at the top of the scoreboard that are dominating, the middle of the pack are just there and the bottom of the scoreboard are people that are either new or just goofing around. this means you can hard counter the few good players who are usually either a sniper/heavy/scout or a soldier/demo, you only need 2 dmg resist types at most. you can even pop both types at once on a single heal target. not to mention the build rate is so high you can never really be caught out without at least one charge, making it brainless to play with but requiring far more effort to counter idk how you can say jarate is overrated, it literally wins teamfights if you throw it on a control point being fought over. it's boring to use sure, but it's broken in how strong it is and that's why people dislike it's effectiveness. if it was only able to mark one player max then sure it might be overrated since it's only usefulness would be countering a spy or scout up close, but that's not why people say it's sniper's best secondary
I agree with almost everything you said but the Soda Popper isn't banned because it has better burst damage. It's banned because salty Soldier mains don't want to deal with the hype. However it would be a limited pick at best if it was unbanned because Scouts that stick with the Scattergun will have a big advantage against other Scouts using the Soda Popper. If you put both Scouts right next to each other in a testing chamber, then yeah the Soda Popper Scout will win, but in a real game you're not going to be constantly getting 2 point-blank meat shots, and the Scattergun might as well have a bottomless clip compared to the Soda Popper. The Vaccinator is ridiculous in pubs, the vaccinator is basically a litmus test to see how good a player is. New players and middle of the pack players will typically have a more favorable view on the weapon compared to more advanced players who almost universally have a very negative opinion on it when it's used in pubs specifically. I know b4nny and almost all invite level players hate the weapon for example. I do think the Loch-N-Load is a little underrated, it seems most people consider it trash when it can be better than stock/Iron Bomber is a lot of scenarios, I also agree that Jarate is broken good.
@@potatoweaver4116 out of interest how much comp experience do you have to just brush it off as "salty soldier mains" instead of like, everyone in 6s including scout mains saying please do not unban soda popper because it makes scout better lol
Opinions from sixes players should be considered but only lightly. They play a version of the game that is drastically different from the Tf2 most people experience.
@@indigomer imo it's not that different, it's not like 4v4 passtime vs regular pubs. they play on the same maps with the same gamemodes with 25/160 items banned and class limit 2 (1 on powerful classes). there you see why loch n load is a straight upgrade in most cases even in a gamemode without a permanent engi just because of what good demos can do with the projectile speed, and in NR 6s soda popper is insane. dynam's video on the soda popper is a pretty good rundown of it from a pub and comp player that also features itjazzy who mains the soda popper and is utterly insane with it
The problem with scout and his stock is that scout is the only class that suffers from the "I see multiple ppl on my screen and have to kill them, so i need all the shots i can get" problem. Every other class either has splash dmg, range or instakills with a relatively ez get away. So every other scatergun having smaller clips is just a huge downside.
I'm not taking it seriously and know that you didn't play that much Heavy and Pyro but it really shows, once you equip Tomislav or Powerjack they really make you feel how slow you are without them.
12:25 it can have 2, fire is rarely used because pyro usually can’t kill an over-healed heavy. Explosives are decently more common and bullets are the most common, so you really only need 2. The vaccinator gives 75% resistance to any damage type. So over healed heavy with 450hp and 75% resistance equals effectively 1800hp against selected damage type. The vaccinator charges 67% faster, that’s 3x the speed of the normal medi-gun. Most fights in tf2 are only a few seconds, so 2.5 seconds of quadruple health becomes way too powerful.
Hey, nice vid! I just have something to say about the Kunai I think that trickstabs aren’t that important when using the kunai, the kunai is more focused on keeping you alive so that (if you use it well) you can have lots of kills and also survive! I feel that the kunai is better at chainstabs than trickstabs, if you want to make trickstabs use the big earner. So you can do a more passive gameplay getting some kills, heal up, hide, and repeat. I’m also bad at trickstabs, but I still use the kunai because of the chainstabs But yeah, in conclusion, in my opinion you can still use the kunai as a passive weapon, I also understand that the revolver is a really good weapon but is like the engineer’s pistol, just take it out in case you fail. Pd: sorry if I have some orthography problems, English is not my main language :(
@GDsanson99 your English looks perfectly good to me, I’m impressed. I’m more of a stock knife person myself. For me it’s either that or spycicle if it’s necessary. Also I did say revolver but I myself am an Ambassador user.
a lot of the time the stock purists are in denial. Yes, stock is often the all rounder option, the one good in all situations. The unlocks trade strength in one area for it in another.
I accidentally switched the meaning of overrated and underrated and was like: “Wtf, how is kunai underrated?” Then I re-read the title and was like: “Oohhh…”
Heavy main here. Tomislav is better, but the kill times of the mini guns are consistently under a second. I use the mini gun because the model, especially the australium, looks better than the wimpy Tomislav. And in a serious setting as heavy the thing that matters most is not getting caught reved down. The slight rev speed increase doesn't save you, if you're caught panic-revving then you messed up and you should lose that fight. Tomislav wins most heavy 1v1s, but how often do you have a heavy 1v1. You should be holding a position, and if you are, you will beat the heavy that is pushing up to that position. Mini gun isn't a factor there.
Me personally I think the powerjack is overrated too. The damage vulnerability isn’t worth going barely faster when holding it. The axtinguisher on the other hand is underrated, I use it a lot for combos and terrorizing light classes because of how easy it is to combo into a melee. Especially hard scoping snipers, Demoknights, and cocky melee scouts.
(Im new to TF2) Personally for Heavy I use the brass beast, because it just feels better for me. Plus, the Silent Killer stat from the Tomislav doesn't help all that much when you're pushing or defending besides that one surprise kill that happens once every 20 matches. At least that's my opinion. Might just be a skill issue idk, I'm an Engi main anyway :/ (im trying out other classes from time to time tho)
@indigomer The funny thing is, the brass beast is good, since everyone cares about the Tomislav, they often don't pay attention to an brass beast Heavy when there's other enemies. Like, I killed a Demo, Soldier, and Overhealed Tomislav Heavy on Turbine in like a minute when they were rushing us. The brass beast isn't bad, it just makes Heavy even more of a specialist. Plus, it's funny how Heavy's react to a Brass Beast Heavy, they don't shoot for like 2secs wich always garanties their death and it's funny as hell. XD
Playing a decrnt mount of heavy, the Tomislav is a Side Grade that i prefer entirely because it's easier to get the drop on people do to the mixture of Silent Spin Up, Tighter Spread, and faster speed. For the Frontline Playstyle, I would agree Tomislav is probably the worst though. Brass Beast and Natascha's Damage Resistance is normally better then it's increased speed for Survival; and Stock is of course, Stock. The Hou-Long Heater is sad.
11:39 funnily enough the more i got better at the game the worse the wrangler seemed to get cus your positioning sentries in better spots where the wrangler's upside of extending your sentry range matter less
@99999bomb the range extension is not my issue with the wrangler, I don’t hate that part. The damn shield makes it impossible to kill head on. You have to have a clear shot at the engineer **and** kill him faster than the sentry kills you, then kill the sentry gun. It’s ridiculous.
I wouldn't call vaccinator overpowered. If anything, I think it's a very well balanced weapon. That being said, it's also extremely annoying to fight against. In a pub environment lot of the time you're fighting the vacc combo alone, and both the 10% resistance and the actual vaccinator ubers make those two players almost unkillable. Most classes are incapable of dealing multi-style damage outside melee, and many that could will regularly exchange that ability for something else. Like being singled out by the enemy team in a sport, or a videogame - while your team goes unpunished. You win the game(because they don't have ubers/kritzes), but they ruin your fun in the progress. Also it's possible to swap your primary&secondary weapon and still retain the heads as a demoknight, as long as the target loadout has the eyelander equipped. So if you're good enough you can take some heads, visit spawn room, and become fast and tanky demoman.
As a whole, I'm mainly going to speak on behalf of the weapons that could be improved upon in terms of thoughts Powerjack - While I can get behind why you see it as overrated, genuinely it does start to stack up. 15% (going from 100% to 115%) doesn't really sound like much - and if you're not the most aggressive player, sure, it won't feel like much. But in terms of making the distance, going from Engineer Speed to Medic+ (8% more) Speed can get you much closer to the battle than most other Pyros. With that being said, I would choose the Scorch Shot in this position. Not that it's bad, it's definitely good - point being, like the Stock Scattergun, most other options on Pyro's Secondary not only can be relatively viable, but also comparably more interesting. Whether it be flare punching, additional mobility from the Detonator or Thruster, or being useless with the Gas Passer, and pretending the Neon pairing makes it good. Engineer - Realistically, I don't think there is one overrated option for Engineer. The way you presented the two didn't really seem like you had anything, and just wanted an excuse to rant about the duo of hell - which I can understand. Vaccinator - Yes, it's not the Medigun that is pushing the enemy back - but it's not the most reliable thing to counter. Yes, if the Medic is in the middle of the battlefield, you can go send a Scout, Demo, and Pyro, and he'll be dead. But if he decides to play defensively - say behind a Sentry that would make Pyro ineffective against - good luck trying to kill the guy whose currently being near-immortal, blocks your crits, and continues to farm away on the same two Spies over and over. The only thing I can really call overrated in regards to a replacement is maybe the Ubersaw - with how the Solemn Vow can debatably be a decently viable alternative. With that being said, it's hard to call one or the other more overrated.
@@OrangeBunt well the Jag is up there but I see plenty enough Gunslingers and Eureka Effects that it didn’t make my pick. Plus I am biased towards it myself because to me, being able to rebuild quickly is substantially more valuable than keeping your stuff alive ever so slightly longer.
As for being the Demon and the Devil advocate: The Rescue Ranger and Wranlger combo were *nerf* along time ago, which due this combo, the Wrangler now blocks 33% repairs, it doesn't affect much repairs from wrenches, but it DOES affect repairs coming from the Rescue Ranger, making only repairing 20 hp per bolt, which to fully repair a damaged sentry it will take more than 4 bolts to repair IF the shield is active, which in that time-span, classes like Soldier and Demo can easily destroy if no one helps the engineer, but about the Wrangler, Engineers often *don't* place the sentry on horrible spots but rather reinforce a good spot to make sure the defense is hold tight, as show in the video, the wrangler being used with a mini-sentry is very annoying due to the fact even you destroyed the sentry the engineer still have another one just to be placed, which in fact is annoying and brain dead, but using the wrangler as defensive engineer helps alot do deal with spam and of course classes that can easily destroy your sentry, but doing this, like this 11:40 ? I think turing 2 sources of damage info one isn't effective or even fun doing so. yes the last phrase is from uncle dane
As a someone who plays heavy regularly. I can say that the tomislav is overrated, don't get me wrong the weapon can absolutely shred people at medium to far range, however it falls off significantly at close range. I use the weapon more often if maps like upward have a really long walkway and the spread with the stock minigun will make it very hard to get kills. The weapon is best on offense and in maps that aren't tight like badwater or 2fort. It's a situational sidegrade and not a stock replacement.
@@indigomer i do see the similarities to your voice sounding like Blue, but i think honestly its more of the format and style of jokes that kinda reflect it and bring more of a similarity then just voice lol
Solar Light managed to get a 60 killstreak on Upward in his video "Demoknight Team Fortress 2 (2)" with the Eyelander, which should get him a spot in the TF2 hall of fame.
As a former comp engineer player I must agree with the rescue ranger and wrangler, when ever I used it in casual even defense it just wasn't that fun because of how powerful it is.
Med main here. "I hear so many people complain about the vaccinator like it's the most broken item in Medic's kit, and I hate to break it to you-not even close." True, that honour goes to the crossbow because it's viable in all situations. "The vaccinator can enable an Uber for one damage type at a time. So the solution is to attack it with more than one damage type." No, you can use multiple types leaving a combo soldier/pyro to the same crit melee praying as everyone else. "If you're fighting with a team like you should be, then it's not difficult to just prod with multiple damage types." Fair but why should a single weapon lock everyone into playing optimally? "Even if you're fighting alone, if one is giving you a hard time, you can switch to Soldier or Pyro so you have two damage types on your person." Why should one weapon have the ability to turn off my interaction to another player? "Allow me to remind you of the insane power of stock UberCharge or even the Kritzkrieg. In the right circumstances, you see team wipes with those mediguns somewhat regularly, and never once in my life have I seen a vaccinator medic carry a push on his own." Yes but would you like me to tell you how many Ubers/Kritz I've nulled due to the vaccinator? "In some situations it's annoying, just like anything else. I mean, you can't really have something be perfectly balanced in every situation-that's impossible." That's the point of side grades to be stronger in SPECIFIC circumstances. The vaccinator is very annoying in a majority of situations. "For being so 'overpowered' and in need of a nerf, it's a very exploitable medigun." Fair enough but it is still too strong in pubs with random players who may or may not know how to properly exploit it. "People who cry out to the heavens begging for a nerf on this thing? I cannot see your logic." Their logic is that it limits fun more than any other weapon. Ya like running a banner? Too bad the enemy medic is using vacc. Like flare punches? That's an ez 6-18 seconds of building to turn that fun combo off. Hit a nice quickscope just before you died? Eh, he was on bullet res so he's still standing.
So, I heavily disagree (respectfully) with the Vac. The Vaxinator's issue is how easy it is to stack the resistances with a strong medic player. Trying to push will all three types can be a harder way to counter (unless you get 12 Demoknights). I only think the change it needs wild be to have a little change to the resistance change, and that's it
I fully agree with you about weapon feel being the most important. The Reserve Shooter particularly is a hard sell for me because of the horrible firing sound, meanwhile my favorite scattergun is the Back Scatter because it looks cool and has the most satisfyingly heavy firing sound. The Huo-Long Heater is my favorite minigun for the same reasons. It looks sick and sounds dope as fuark.
The reason why the vac is so annoying and hated is because you need multiple people to deal with it. It's not like you can manifest other people at will when you encounter one. If it really was a simple as you implied there would be way less complaints
Well you see, even with low coordination in casual everyone knows that you shoot the medic first. If you’re alone, fall back where people are, kill him together.
@indigomer Most people won't do that, it could be egos wanting to think they don't need help or not wanting to run or just in the moment and they can't think clearly, or you don't live long enough to escape. Just shoot the medic first can be difficult if the medic is smart, the target is destroying everyone, or god forbid both. And of course, stacking ubers. Me and stock demo once beat two pyros and a top scoring high ranking soldier who ambushed us just because the demo wouldn't die thanks to being able to stack ubers. The soldier shared his "compliments" in chat after the encounter
@ I’m not sure what your casual games look like, but most games don’t equate to people lining up single file to attack the pocket medic. Even without words, the players with more than 3 hours of experience know that the medic has to go first. And they usually attack together because he’s either on the point or at least out in the front with the power classes. Unless you’re just unluckier than I am, I have rarely had the problem of teammates not attacking the medic along with me. That only happens when I’m put on a full team of idiots and we were going to be steamrolled regardless.
For medic, I'd say the Ubersaw is more overrated than the Vac. Sure, 25% uber instantly is powerful, but as a medic you have no reason to be taking melee fights unless you're out of position. Ubersaws supposedly dealing random crits more often is probably the most egregious case of confirmation bias in the game as well
I can’t speak all that confidently because medic is my least played, but my interpretation for ubersaw is it’s boring and situational but the alternatives are either more situational or worse versions of the ubersaw. The closest alternative is the amputator, would be awesome if it weren’t so limited to choke points. But you can take that as you will, when I play medic it’s usually because the team needs one so I just run the meta of crossbow/stock/ubersaw. And ubersaw isn’t used by “press w and hope for the best,” it’s more useful when “hey this guy is close and focusing on my pocket, I’ll run and grab a quick hit.”
I 100% agree with you, with some additional points; 1. The Scattergun is reliable but the Soda Popper is easily at least the second best, if not on par with stock. It requires a different playstyle to a more standard Scout and very precise aim to do well, which I imagine is why most players prefer the Scattergun. Also, it just feels less satisfying than stock to be honest. Stock has that satisfying click on the reload and a more generally appealing design overall, kinda like your Tomislav versus Minigun comparison. 2. FINALLY someone addresses the Gunboat Garry's in the room. I understand that it's ridiculously flexible and opens up a lot of expressive plays, but I've managed to create my own Soldier loadouts that do the same in their own unique way, leaning into Soldier's role as a self-sufficient frontliner and taking on the oft-forgotten role as the uncontested deathmatch king. The addition of a shotgun allows a Soldier to easily gain the upper hand in situations where he'd otherwise be forced to retreat and doubles his damage potential. I understand why he takes on a more specialized role in competitive, and why people enjoy a playstyle oriented around flanking and outpositioning the opponent, but in the chaotic and unpredictable environment of a pub, the shotgun is an incredibly reliable supplement to the rocket launcher that mitigates its most glaring weaknesses and important to keep in the back of your mind, and not only when a competent Pyro joins the enemy team. 3. 100% agree. The Axtinguisher and Backscratcher deserve far more praise than they get, enabling massive bursty plays or a self-sufficient playstyle oriented around flank rotations. The Powerjack feels like a nice middle ground between these two options with the benefit of rollout speed, but its downside is definitely there, particularly when Snipers are involved. 4. The Eyelander is nice for snowballing, especially if you aren't particularly good at charge manipulation or melee combat in the first place. It's a good crutch for players who are frankly terrible at Demoknight by letting them farm a few heads off of newb Spies and proceed to play like a less effective but tankier Spy or Scout. The problem with this strategy is that it discourages prioritizing high-value targets like Medics, since that would risk losing all of your heads assuming they're competent and relatively well-defended. It encourages you to focus on easy targets - mostly useless enemy players whose absence barely provides an advantage to your team. As far as Demoman melees go, I'm on the side of Solarlight that all the options are valid, but the most consistent has to be the Half-Zatoichi. The raw health value it gains you on each kill lets you snowball at least as well as an Eyelander while enabling highly aggressive or even nearly suicidal plays. That said, I like the Eyelander because it looks fucking badass and has a unique and interesting mechanic attached to it that the Valve devs clearly put a lot of love into. The way the sword whispers to you for heads or the way your eye begins to glow as you gain more power is just pure AWESOME factor. Also the funny thing where you swap to stickies after getting 4 heads to become a faster and harder to kill demoman and stomp a server :P I think people let the awesome factor and iconic nature of the Eyelander somewhat skew their opinions on other Demoman swords when, if you're trying to play Demoknight in a way that gives your team an advantage, other options may be better suited to a particular game state or are just plainly more fun to use, allowing you to chain kills straight out of spawn instead of needing time to ramp up to full effectiveness. 5. Fair enough. I'm a Tomislav main myself, but that's because it better matches my particular playstyle of Heavy with an emphasis on flexibility and self-sufficiency. 6. Thank GOD, another player who also despises using the Wrangler. I know a lot of Engineer players swear by it for a reason, it provides a lot of value, but I think people forget just how strong the pistol can be. In all my testing, the TTK against a target being focused by both a sentry gun and a pistol is faster than that of someone being focused by the Wrangler outside of the farthest edges of the Sentry's range where the Wrangler's lack of spread starts to become a meaningful advantage, and that's because the Wrangler actually provides a much smaller boost to fire rate than people assume; it's nowhere near DOUBLE the Sentry's fire rate, at most around 50% when used on a mini-sentry, the lowest damage version of the Sentry Gun. If you're building exclusively for maximizing damage, the Pistol is simply the obvious choice. It's the most damaging Engineer secondary with the added benefit of being completely separate from your Sentry Gun, allowing you to fire from two different angles instead of one. The advantage of the Wrangler is obviously as a utility item; being able to expand your Sentry's range, increase its already immense knockback, and most importantly triple its effective health are the reasons you run it when assuming a traditional defensive support role for the Engineer, but the Pistol is more than deserving of a seat at the table when it comes to alternative playstyles, particularly ones that want to trade defensive utility for offensive power. 7. A little known counter to the Vaccinator is Pyro, particularly the Phlogistinator. This is because of a change during Jungle Inferno (or was it Gun Mettle?) where the afterburn caused by a Flamethrower reduces the effectiveness of a Vaccinator bubble by a significant amount, including its protection from critical hits. While the resistance still exists, a Vax medic expecting a fire bubble to save him from a Phlog uber will be proven wrong in a shockingly short order due to this effect, the combination of crits and resistance reduction giving it roughly a similar TTK to that of a stock flamethrower against a defenseless Medic. Also just playing a defensive Engineer seems to do the trick since it's pretty rare a Vaccinator combo can actually get the momentum needed to take out a gun that's being actively tanked. 8. The piss jar is honestly overpowered. It has a similar effect to the Buff Banner for next to no risk or opportunity cost and enables the unreliable if somewhat unfair option of a guaranteed crit with the Bushwacka. I do really like the way the SMGs synergize with the Sniper Rifle, though, so I tend to use them instead. 9. The Kunai is 100% an annoying weapon to counter sometimes, especially since it feeds off of your teammates' lack of awareness in a similar fashion to a snowballing Demoknight build, but with less reliable methods to shut him down besides the one class in the game that can deny a backstab with nearly perfect consistency within a pretty sizeable radius, the babysitt- I mean the Pyro. Even then, Heaven Forbid the cocky bastard doesn't bring the Diamondback and two tap you with a tenth of his stored crits that he can farm dozens of by the end of a round due to your clueless Engineer. But, as you say, Spy isn't entirely oriented around backstabs, and while enabling a well-timed stab to be a get out of jail free card can be powerful, it also assumes you can reliably get a backstab when you need it, which isn't always true. Good use of Cloak is already a pretty effective getaway for Spy, even against enemy Pyros due to the halved debuff duration; clever enough evasive movement can get you out of almost any sticky situation, to the extent that the number of situations where the Kunai can provide value isn't necessarily enough to make up for the times you get oneshot before you can even make it to a juicy back.
@@emirwattabor6991 I should specify, I don’t dislike the gunboats. I love using them myself. I put them on the list mostly because the majority of players who use them treat them like it’s the only secondary worth even considering. It’s like that guy who eats the same exact thing for lunch every day and refuses to try anything else. I’m the polar opposite, not a single class I play regularly has only one loadout that I use. Most of them I use all four slots. Variety and unique weapon design is one of the big reasons Tf2 is so great, so it makes no sense to me why people pick *one* lane and stick to it.
@@certifiedicecreamtruckmoment situationally I can see that, but I myself really don’t care for it. It’s good but for me at least it fills the same role as stock while having a smaller magazine capacity so it’s just not for me.
okay on pyro part i could say most overrated weapon would be degreaser, not saying the powerjack cuz it's actually very helpfull to reach some spots in the map( you can reach the top of the bridge in 2fort for example).
@butlazgazempropan-butan11k87 oh I absolutely hate the skullcutter, but the number of users for it are small enough where I can’t call it overrated. In medieval exclusivity, perhaps.
Yeah I normally use the bottle, but if I see a max head Eyelander Demoknight I will switch to the Skullcutter. 60% chance to one shot them is pretty good.
I wholeheartedly disagree with both the heavy and medic picks. Firstly, tomislav isnt anywhere near as fanatically worshiped as the sandwich, and secondly, the crossbow/ubersaw hold that same situation as the sandwich on medic.
The vac doesnt make you almost invulnerable at one resistance at a time but you can stack them, also, you can actually make your patient invulnerable by healing into mini uber into arrow into back to healing. Your opponent will get tickled while getting an insane amount of heal, I do it when there is one good player in my team and we win the majority of the time. Also, kunai spies think they are good because they backstab a new player and become very tanky, in fact, most kunai spies ive seen are genuinely terrible, play another knife and learn how to play the game (not to you, indigo, but im talking in general)
The most overated weapon is definitly the phlogistinator. Yea you are able to get crits, but due to not having airblast you are now left defenseless against the entire enemy team. Because of this getting in a fight with a soldier or demoknight, (2 of the few classes pyro counters) becomes impossible, and your lack of supportive skills, alongside the ability of impacting player positioning, makes it so getting into flamethrower range will most likely end in your death. the Only 1v1s you'll win as a phlog pyro are against a spy, a scout in a closed room (Which you could already kill effectively), or a medic or demoman. However you cant even kill a Medic effectively since they are always surrounded, and not having airblast means we cant reflect back explosion damage as a way to get group kills. Its only benefit is that once you get 300 points of damage you can activate your crits, which although doesn't sound like a lot damage it feels like it since you have to be extremely careful not to get instantly killed when your hitbox dares approach a group of enemy players, since without airblast you lack all defensive capabilities. Even when you actually achieve to kill a group of players with your crits youll still end up dying, since in order for the phlogs slow playstyle to be effective you have to practically throw yourself towards a group of enemies and hope to kill as many as you can before you die. The only thing that makes this gun bearable are the flare guns, which allow the pyro to rack up mphhhhh without being closed range. Then again flares are hard to hit, and at that point just use a normal flamethrower, which awards minicrits for reflects and still gives you the crit for landing a flare shot on a burning player, plus the additional defensive capabilities. the only reason this gun is so hated is because of the scorchshot, since its AOE does massive area fire damage, and is extremely OP. This raks up the Mphhhh meter very fast, and in truth is a very OP combo since you don't have to deal with getting countered by every class in the game as long as you can just gain your fire damage from far away, ranking up the fire damage and giving the phlog an actual aggressive playstyle. However the phlog is still the worst flamethrower since it absolutely sucks with any other loadout other than that specific one.
I wouldn’t say so. Phlog gets a lot of use but according to most Phlog users I have spoken to they understand it’s the worst flamethrower due to its lack of airblast. So even though it’s popular I don’t think I would consider it overrated because even the people who main with it rate it moderately.
uhhh... I don't know if you perfectly calculated your opinions or something but I agree with practically every single one you mentioned. you must be the chosen one, it's the first time something like this happends to me lol
The Tomislav is better than stock because of speed, that’s pretty much it. The DPS difference is negligible, and the accuracy is a nice bonus. But being able to rev, unrev, and re-rev your gun so fast is why it’s just objectively better than stock. Stock isn’t a bad gun; it’s always been perfectly fine. It’s just that the Tomislav does everything the stock does at a longer range and better. Even the DPS difference isn’t that large because the Tomislav starts firing so much sooner. Considering heavies massive DPS numbers, I’m not sure this would even matter tbh. You still kill classes in less than a second lol.
well medic main here to be honest the vacc is the last option id be equipping the healing is way to sluggish to the point its not worth the bubbles you get...its a good option when a spefic damage type or pressure but the fact the healing rate is lower is what i hate to be truthful stock or even kritz is more chaotic and if we are sincere even quickfix the trade off is way to high even if you get 4 bubbles but its not worth a 1.5 sec bubble a stock uber literally is no damage and quick fix you gain the no knockback tradeoff and healing rates that makes up the lack of being invincible and they last a whole 8 seconds and the vacc one random crit if your not quick your gone for not popping the bubble i agree on your take good job
Baby face losing boost is seen as such a negative thing. 360hu/s is fast, and with any boost you're probably at least 400. 520hu/s is VERY fast. That's 30% faster than Scout normally; the run speed cap. Spy gets an extra boost from cond 32 compared to other classes for mysterious reasons (cond 32 wasn't adjusted after his 20 u/s speed buff), so he goes at 505hu/s after a big earner stab. This effect feels more potent bc of the motion lines cond 32 adds. Meanwhile, BFB, besides being held to the standards of the speediest class, communicates better the loss of boost as a punishment more than the gain of boost as a reward. You don't primarily feel good from a meatshot because you can go fast now, and many just feel a rollercoaster of opportunity anxiety, others no satisfaction. I don't rly use the BFB, but I can't help but feel like a scout weapon with -2 ammo and -10% speed that just gives you a speed boost on kill would be seen as better, even though that would be a direct downgrade from the current BFB.
The Vaccinator take bugs me a lil bit. I'm a Heavy main, and being told "well use your melee to counter the Vaccinator" clearly comes from people who've never played Heavy for more than a couple hours. And the "change class" thing is just straight up stupid, like "if you want to counter it change class" - people are fine with the idea that an unlockable completely negates the fun and possibilities of classes with one damage type, and that your only tool as a Heavy/Demo is to go back to your base and stop playing your desired class? aye okay sure
![[TF2] - Everything wrong with the guns in Team Fortress 2](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BWyTjAOCD90/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] - Everything wrong with the guns in Team Fortress 2](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] Biggest Losers of the Final Updates](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hQ9IXs5SdSc/mqdefault.jpg)
How are you not popular? Your videos are entertaining, informative, and good quality. You earned a subscribe from me.
Also pin for pizza
@rymatin I will pin for sausage balls instead
His videos being entertaining, informative and good quality is the exact reason why he's not popular and will never be, because that's how modern TH-cam works
becuz it's the same type of content as every other tf2 youtuber, background gameplay and png images
@@indigomerballs
@@widelia2008 like this video if you enjoy balls
We don’t hate the vaccinator because it’s overpowered, we hate the vaccinator because it’s frustrating and not fun to fight against.
WRONG! OVERPOWERED! I PLAY HEAVY AND IT MAKES ME SAD! OVERPOWERED!
I mean it's the go to for making cheaters' lives unfun for a reason
I'm sorry but your comment doesn't make much sense. The Vaccinator is a medigun. All of the mediguns works the same. "Fighting against" any mediguns is the same "strategy". So, it's hard to believe the vaccinator really makes that much of a difference.
@ in simple terms: if you hit all your shots on other mediguns, they will drop even with the constant healing and overheal
The vaccinator denies most of that damage, you could hit all your shots while the enemy miss all they want and you’d still end up losing
The vaccinator also has a faster Uber rate so it makes the “win any one enemy encounter” button even more expendable along with just spamming cycling the resistances
The counter is just focus fire which is already super hard to come by in pubs or use the enforcer
Basically: you can still win if you’re way better when you’re fighting a normal medigun because it’ll be unlikely they’ll waste their Uber on one person. The vaccinator on the other hand could cheese encounters and there’s almost no risk to using the Uber due to how fast it charges.
@@jaumesillozzo the vaxx prevents you from dropping the med, when you get the spring on him he just pops a resistance and runs away. You're limited to the same strategies but now the medic can just avoid any damage you may output if he has at least one charge (which they almost always do) (even if you're playing as pyro/soldier with a shotgun, they only need 2 to resist everything you can output).
This just sounds like weapon stereotypes ngl
Cept it’s not done by a smarmy douche.
It's missing something tho.. (Soundsmith stereotype music slowly fading in)
creativity is dead broken heart emoji
What does nlg means
@ “Not Gonna Lie”
EVERYONE sleeps on the sodapopper, even in comp. The reload speed and "uptime" of the gun is surprisingly high despite only having 2 shots per reload.
+ because it has the same damage and the same amount of pellets as stock it doesn't suffer as much in damage as other scatter guns
Also it doesn't have dumb knockback and it's accuracy is the exact same as stock if I had to choose an unlock over stock the soda popper gets the spot for me just because it's surprisingly consistent
"even in comp" I've got news for you friend...
It's banned. (so is EVERY secondary except winger btw)
Not really I see a lot of people say soda pop is scout's second best weapon people really sleep on bfb tho
not a single person sleeps on it. literally everyone knows that the soda popper is cracked as shit. the only reason no one uses it is because of consistency and the fact thats its banned due to how powerful it is
@@AkiraSatou it’s banned in comp because of the ability, but even still it’d be a niche strategy at best. The scattergun is just way too important especially in 6’s.
I find the worst parts about the Vaccinator are A) most classes are restricted to 1 damage type + melee and B) the Vaccinator is the only medigun that lets you do the objective while ubered
@@JackNick2000 I can agree on that part at least, especially since the quick fix can’t do it so it’s a double standard. I would be fine with that feature removed.
Another few problems I find are that it charges uber while an uber is active and also it can stack multiple damage types for short periods of time which is really tereible to deal with. Few medics have it down but the ones that do make me want to bash my head through a wall.
The vaccinator trades team pushing ability for the ability to pocket one dude and let him win 1v1s easier. It's balanced, you just need to stop trying to win 2v1s.
You can cap while Ubering with the Kritzkrieg too.
@@WalumancerThe difference with that Medigun is that it's not a survivability effect. Since capping probably means most of the enemy is dead anyway, using Vacc charges to guarantee a win feels cheap when any other effect could be countered, especially since the Vacc will almost always have charges. Worst case scenario with Kritzkreig is that the pocket is playing DOOM while every player on the enemy team focuses them down to kill them, which will probably kill the Medic anyway.
9:30 I actually love the panic attack’s sound design and it’s partly why I use it over stock.
I only use stock because everytime I fire that gun at someone my pecker gets a little more excited, while the panic attack doesn't give me the same rush.
To each their own
"it sounds like a cereal box"
-Uncle dane
12:33 doesn’t the vac block 2? Like you can stack them if I’m not mistaken
Yes you can
You can actually get all 3 I've seen it on bread space a couple days ago and yeah we couldn't push out of spawn
Yes you can stack them and use the Crossbow while using an uber, and build another uber while using an uber too.
You can stack all three, but you want to avoid stacking them because if you are constantly in situations where you must stack you are either positioning wrong or in a situation where stock is better
@wisbilt1650 why would you want avoid stacking all 3? Your acting like it's a debuff
You might think the Disciplinary Action is just a support tool, until you learn that it has three times the range
@@sufficient4834 and soldier is not built for melee combat and that only comes into play for places like medieval and the occasional “fuck it” moments
holy shit I didn't know this
@@indigomer consider: self damage and no shotgun (banners)
4:56 and THAT is the exact reason I love gunboats. It just allows to do insane and hilarious shit with beggar's like flying across an entire map and confusing everyone in a server
@@RealRoid I love the gunboats too, beggar’s jumping is awesome.
I was mostly pointing out that most gunboat users treat them like none of the other secondaries are worth using.
My big Hot Take: No Weapon in the game is more overrated than the Frying Pan. I can’t stand how much people glaze it non-stop, and that’s for just a Stock Reskin.
@@superbaddy4 I mean people use it as a meme, it’s an old joke but for a lot of us it’s better than a boring stock melee.
loud = funny
Counterpoint: I find the noises when it hits a player pretty amusing
@@TYlolexagreed
pan < superbaddy4
while i can see why you picked the stock scattergun for scout, it's praised so much for good reason, it's consistently good, has the highest tube size, and doesn't have any gimmicks. It deserves the praise 100%
@DashM-O it deserves praise, it is the best, it should be the most used.
I called it overrated because so many scouts think it’s the only good option at all, as if you’re an idiot for using anything else. Which is not the case because the others are all very good in themselves.
@@indigomer you're justified in calling it overrated, the soda popper exists and at it's skill ceiling it's objectively better than the scattergun in dps, burst and the hype making you win almost every fight you use it in if you can move and strafe well
@@twpsyn No it really isn't objectively better. First off DPS is completely relevant on Scout, it simply doesn't matter because Scout is a burst damage class. The Scattergun is typically considered better because it has better sustained damage. Basically imagine you're in 1v1 with another Scout. You're using the Soda Popper and he's using the Scattergun, you fire both shots and hit both, but he's still alive. Well now he can just win the 1v1 for free while you're reloading because he basically has a bottomless clip compared to you. The only way the Soda Popper is considered better is if you're comparing them in a sterilized testing chamber, but in practice the Scattergun is better. The hype is extremely good against Soldiers and Demos, but Scout is already really strong against them at high levels of play so it's better to stick with the primary that is most effective against other Scouts.
@@potatoweaver4116both scouts miss their shots in 1v1s so doesn’t mattee
@@FredFaz-h7e If they are bad then yeah, but I'm obviously talking about good Scout players.
Entirely disagree with the vaccinator claim. 25% vaccinator Uber takes less time to charge than any other Uber, blocks enough damage while healing the target to basically make them in vulnerable, and you can even make a gun spy out damage a heavy with the vaccinator. It is the freest win in the game for the medic’s team
@@shardzard2365 a vaccinator uber is not invulnerable, I have had pockets die to their resisted type more than a few times. The charges are faster than full charge on other mediguns but they’re balanced out by only lasting 2 seconds as opposed to 8. And I would be confident in saying that a gun spy under quick fix could probably out damage a heavy, the revolver is no slouch.
I hit 3 directs and one splash from my grenade launcher on a medic with explosive resistance and he didn’t die.
@ Counter, were you alone?
In that scenario, yes. But the rest of the time was team v team
@ perhaps I’m wrong but maybe if you’re attacking a medic alone under some form of ubercharge then you shouldn’t be able to kill him alone?
Tbh, I expected low effort slop, brain dead balance opinions, just like a different top 10 most overrated weapons on tf2 vid. But I’m pleasantly surprised. A discussion of meta fetishcism? Not saying that the weapon is bad, just pointing out theres other options? Not putting down people who use it? Nuance in a video essay in 2024? Fucking incredible. Keep cooking. You have my sub.
@@BUNOBUNO-so5nu I mean I have gotten a few people calling it slop anyway so, there’s that.
new slop fresh from the tf2ber factory just dropped
Eat up
The slop thickens
Why are you calling this slop? (genuine question)
@alvisigiuliano6184 its a joke lol
Good video quality, only one issue: about half of the reasons you gave for why any given item is overrated was "it's boring" or along that line of thought. That's not helpful, it's not even an opinion, it's barely an argument worth mentioning. Half of the video is a valid discussion such as the scout and medic segments. Good arguments. Then you say wrangler is boring, as if being a stale meta pick is always entirely uninteresting without exception. I did agree with most of your real points though.
You did not take into account that jumpscare heavy is the way to play tomislav, however.
Would like a sequel but without "boring" being used as the argument. Unfun could work, however. Quite a few unfun things, i.e. sniper.
@@wazoo41 I would say “it’s boring” mostly because of those items which are good in their own right, but if they were half as good as people make them out to be you’d never see other options.
Also the wrangler isn’t boring, it’s broken. Unbalanced, overpowered.
@indigomer i personally think the wrangler should be split into two weapons one that gives a shield at the cost of rate of fire, and the other that increases rate of fire bit makes the sentry more vulnerable to damage. That alone would fix it and give the engineer one more weapon and more nuance for what to choose for what situation.
@ I think the shield should just be gone. Sentries are hard enough to kill with all the tanking and cooperative engineering, they don’t need any resistances stacked on top.
@indigomer i dont think it should just be gone just nerfed.sentries aren't that hard to kill, 3 normal or 2 direct hit rockets can kill a lv 3.
I think Medic's most overrated item is easily the Ubersaw. Yeah, it's 25% uber charge on hit, but the sustainability and versatility of the Amputator outclasses it IMO. You can heal yourself up, heal crowds at a time at the same rate as the stock medi-gun, and you don't have to be in the enemy's face to get value out of it.
Amputator is better than I used to think but it’s also very situational. More credit to the medics who like using it.
@@indigomer I gotta agree. It takes the support role to the max, expecially with the Crossbow.
No, gaining Uber is better than the medic having to barely give the team any HP with no overheal or Uber gain, and that health regeneration thing while holding it out barely does anything and healing your teammates literally heals you more than holding it out.
Medigun and crossbow outheal the amputator in 99% of situations. Also, crit heals and building Uber. Anputator is only good in 100 player servers where large groups of people assemble at one spot. Amputator is still a gimmick weapon in casual servers, and inferior to ubersaw.
I think Ubersaw sucks cuz "it gives u uber!"Nah. It's worse for direct combat than stock. The only people you're getting uber off is foolish spies, and those don't exist if they're good at the game.
I think what makes the stock Scattergun so popular is that, ironically, by following that meta you're able to experiment more with your other weapons/unlocks and still see success.
It's hard to run Shortstop without pairing it with the Crit-a-Cola for better ranged damage, it's hard to run FaN or Soda Popper without a pistol's spray 'n pray damage to clean up your inevitable botched kills (also doesn't hurt to have some sustainability thanks to their clip sizes), and the BFB begs to be paired with DOT weapons like the Wrap Assassin and Guillotine while making mobility options like the Winger or Atomizer feel nigh useless. All these primary unlocks have obvious synergies and if you ignore them you're bound to struggle more than usual.
With the Scattergun, you can run pretty much whatever else you want, get your use out of them, and you'll still have all your bases covered thanks to the SGs reliability. Also it's the only primary with more than 4 shots in the mag and that's a pretty big deal I don't hear brought up enough. Heard it parroted too many times that "the Soda Popper has a faster fire rate and reload, so it's basically just a better stock." while completely glossing over it's 2 shot capacity like it's no issue.
Maybe it's just me, but I have seen a lot more Scouts running the other unlocks as of recent. The BFB seems to be especially popular now. Makes sense since it's too much fun (even in it's less than ideal state). Nothing beats a good match on cp_standin with the BFB equipped. they go together like chocolate and peanut butter, I swear.
I will say, in my testing the BFB doesn’t *need* the DoT weapons though they do work nicely. You just want a damage dealing secondary in general. I myself prefer the pocket pistol because the faster fire rate feels excellent. Also because to me the biggest downside of the BFB has nothing to do with boost but rather the magazine capacity.
12:32
Correction:
ALL THREE damage types, if you have enough Übercharge
I completely agree with the gunboats, and the powerjack is not overrated it's exactly good, the only thing making scout an mance and heavy so bad is speed so anything giving you speed is very good
@@DaveMillerDsafReal I don’t think s blanket statement like that is all that true.
The powerjack is not bad by any means but the speed boost is so small that it doesn’t outclass the other good melee options
The +20 health on kill on top of the speed make the difference@@indigomer
The thing with the scattergun is it is the best primary in 90% of situations, that’s why it’s so highly rated. All of them can work, but they force you to play to their strengths whereas the scattergun is versatile and can do just about anything. The others are definitely useful and I’ve had a lot of fun dominating with the back scatter. I think the real overrated weapon scout has is the pretty boys pocket pistol, because I see way too many people who genuinely it’s a tier above every other secondary.
This is true. And I did say in other replies, it being the most used in general is not surprising. It’s more to the fact that 80% or more of scouts use just that and nothing else.
My personal headcannon is that jarate snipers piss themselves irl as well whenever and enemy is closer than half the map away. Adds extra flavor
With all respect there's difference between overpowered/good and overated.
Wrangler is absolutely broken, vac is absolutely broken, piss is absolutely broken and thier so good it makes them boring. NOT overrated. But i the only point i agree had to be minigun it just feels more satisfying to use.
The way you talked about the Tomislav is such a breath of fresh air. I'm so tired of people being so objective with how they rate weapons. The whole point of how TF2 balances its unlocks is allowing you to form different playstyles and using what you personally like the most. Good vid. I don't agree with all your picks but overall your thoughts were well-explained.
Small tangent, but I definitely think the "e-sport-ification" of TF2 (Meet Your Match) contributed to people taking the balance of weapons way too seriously and focusing way too much on winning and topping the scoreboard (as you mentioned in the Scout section). I mainly play TF2 Classic nowaways, but I queued into a Casual 2Fort lobby recently for fun because I just wanted to play around with the Classic rifle for a bit. The amount of bitterness, rage, and sweatiness in the chat was mind-boggling to me. Someone was lambasting my team's Medic for not being "good enough", people all around were raging after getting killed, and in general it all just feels so vitriolic and miserable. Felt like those Skial rage videos to me. There were definitely sweats back in the day before MYM, but holy crap it's just gotten way worse since that.
I dont want to argue about anything i just want to make something clear: let say a heavy is being atacked by 3 demos, each shoot a pill and kill him
100x3=300
Now lets add the vaccinator to the acuation
The demos need to dump their whole clip into the heavy
(100-75) 25x12=300
Now lets say the granade launcher fires every half second, and say that vaccinator heals 24 per second, that makes it so every second pill of one demo makes 1 damage effectively un other words you need arround 33% more pipes to kill a heavy just because a medic pressed M2 and yes you can do it whit stock, but once the 8 secons are done they are dead, 4 vacc uvers las 8 seconds but can recharge mid uber too and blocks 100% of crits (just to make it so much fun to fight against) if having to change class to kill a sentry is annoying imagine having to do the same for 2 moving targets
Sorry for all the rant, i just really undestand everyones pain whit this weapon and hearing someone saying "is not that bad" just sounds wrong, and dont take this as an attack the video was really fun to watch, its just that that was a little of a very hot take
As a baby faces blaster main i wish scout players gave his other primaries a real chance. I'd even say the BFB is on par with stock in certain situations.
I still put it below stock because magazine penalty more than anything
8:12 Baseline yes. Demoknight is braindead if there’s 0 counters and you’re free to get kills as you please. Eyelander is easiest to get kills because the crit guarantees a pick while your speed and hp lets you go freely. However, to have Demoknight work effectively in any team comp is much more difficult and easy to counter against more competent teams.
Also if I were to choose an overrated Demoman weapon, it would be the Iron Bomber just because of similar reasons as the Original.
I stand by the eyelander to be overrated but it was pointed out to me shortly after upload that the iron bomber would have been a better pick, because it’s so close to stock it might as well be a reskin.
2:15 YES BFB REPRESENTATION, im serious when I say this you play ground scout like I do the speed boost is so heavenly even if it doesn't last that long, honestly to rebalance it to make it better to just make the loss of boost not as low so you dont lose it easily and even better, let it keep 6 shells
@@applekhi3962 biggest draw of the BFB is the magazine penalty. I myself am okay with the damage as it is because you lose boost fast and gain boost fast. I love that thing.
@@indigomer (sorry for the hella late reply) I understand but to me I feel like it's too easy to lose ALL of your boost because 25 damage is a threshold that's very easy to get which and it can kill your momentum very easily, therefore I think it's fair to have it require 75 damage to lose all your boost and if you double jump you only use 35% of your boost
tho in your other video ik you did mention that you're still the fastest class, that is true but that lost of all your boost can truly be a death sentenced at times
@ My experience is the opposite, actually. The biggest thing I try to get across to people is that zero boost is not a big deal at all. Partially because you’re fast enough to be a problem and all it takes is 25 damage to match a stock scout.
But I understand why people consider the boost loss to be a bit extreme.
@@indigomer that's valid but ofc its usually personal preference and experience but we can both agree on one thing.....the loss of 2 shells is arguably a bigger handicap than the constant speed loss, ngl it may be why losing boost so easily is such a frustration to me- cuz constantly having to recently is such a pain especially for longer sustained fights
12:37 you can actually have multiple damage types for the Uber just so you know
For spy, i am honestly sick of kunai and dead ringer. I see 90% of spy mains use this when it's only good at getting cheap and scummy kills when they disguise as scout for the 123rd time, it would be awesome to see spies actually experiment with loadouts and actually be, you know SPIES, being a menace through stealth instead of tanking several pipes to the face
It’s for this reason I advocate for a modernized disguise kit with more acting tools. If half of the spy mains don’t even try fooling people anymore then clearly something is fundamentally wrong with that tool.
@@indigomer I mean, there’s nothing you can really do about people shooting each other randomly and killing the spy (unless you gave him a 99 damage resistance, which they will still notice the hit sound)
Yea, I use every spy weapon and I have a very flexible playstyle so I can easily swap between being an aggressive trickstabber and a sneaky disguise acting menace. But out of the two I prefer to be more sneaky cause i find it more fun and rewarding. Especially when I fool the enemy medic with my disguise and stab them after they jump in front of me.
Because fuck the Dead Ringer!
Fuck the Dead Ringer!
*FUCK THE DEAD RINGER!!!*
I honestly use stock or YER with cloak and dagger or stock spy’s kit needs a huge update which will definitely never happen
As a semi-Pyro main I agree with the Powerjack pick, the amount of times people seem to completely overlook the Axtinguisher and Back Scratcher just because they want that extra movement speed is crazy, personally I think the three are equal in terms of the slot, the only times I see people not put the Back Scratcher as a good alternative is in competitive mainly due to the existence of Medics and even then it's useful.
8:28 Heavy is my most played class (I cant say I main him tho, i play spy just as much)
And imma be honest, I don't like the Tomislav, the slower firing speed doesn't feel like 20%, it feels more like 50 - 60% which makes the weapon feel way more punishing than almost any other minigun except the heater, the heater feels way too punishing.
Imo Heavy's best to worst Miniguns are
Stock/Iron Curtain
Brass Beast
Tomislav
and Heater
My go to is either Iron Curtain or Brass Beast
(Im not ranking the Natasha, that gun is just unfair to fight)
The Tomislav is the best minigun if you're using a lunchbox item, and since lunchbox items are a key part of Heavy's meta, the Tomislav got confused with the best minigun in general.
Heavy's meta in general is so set in stone and has been for years that shotguns have sprung around to being superior if just for the surprise factor.
I'm glad i found this video! It definitely was interesting and i agreed with some of your takes ! You definitely earned a sub plus bonus points for the Turbo Dismount OST used :D
I have to disagree with the scout one
I believe that the pbpp is way too overrated, the healing isn’t as crazy as people make it out to be and the winger does more damage which is probably scout’s most underrated weapon
To a point I think you’re right, but truth be told I don’t see scouts running that thing nearly as much as mad milk. And I myself prefer the pocket pistol, not for the healing but that fire rate just feels better.
Whenever I have the rare occasion of playing spy I only disguise if I need to kill a sentury nest because I don't really have My time where I use the disguise I also normally have the spycical
Ngl, the only reasons for scouts not using other weapons, other than soda popper, is that they are straight up inferior. BFB makes the classes that counter you the most, counter you even more. Backscatters inaccuracy makes you do nothing on mid range, FaN is near unusable thanks to knockback outside of meming around. Scattergun is simply better and more forgiving. The only unlock that beats scattergun is Soda popper, that weapon is a straight up direct upgrade, but it requires good aim, and punishes you way more harshly than stock, so nobody goes for it as well.
I think you missed my point with that segment.
The other unlocks are not upgrades, but the difference between all of them is nowhere near as great as people make them out to be.
Soda popper and short stop are so close one could argue they’re comparable.
FaN and BFB are a bit lower but if you actually learn the nuances of how to use them, you can team wipe with those. I know this, because I use and love both of them. My only Hale’s Own is the Force a Nature, and my BFB is about 4 and a half thousand.
Back scatter isn’t used much because the gameplay isn’t any different or more interesting than stock, and it’s worse because of the magazine size. But in the ideal situations with stock, you’re still set up for success with it. I have seen a couple top scoring scouts who were hipsters and using the back scatter.
All of scout’s primaries are great in their own rights. Scattergun is king, but the rest are *not* far behind. Unlike what the community leads you to believe.
Degreaser is the most overrated option on Pyro. It's useful, but 30% switch is not that big in reality and the cost of having much less afterburn damage to rely on makes using shotguns with it completely pointless. But I've seen so many people thinking it's better than stock just because it switches faster. Like, sure, it's not like Pyro has any other was of fighting other than combos....
.
@@aanproduction1516 that would have been an acceptable answer too, though I think the switch speed difference does actually have some purpose depending on the playstyle.
honestly, that 30% really comes in handy on multiple situations.
but granted thats because i overuse flares and axes and particle manipulation is hard.
@@indigomer well, yeah, it it a positive difference, but some people over exaggerate how impactful this difference really is.
one thing to mention is that 5/9 weapons are hard meta in Sixes or Highlander or both and some people don't like to bother with weapons that are banned in the main format that they play
I mean I can see that being semi-relevant but I’m pretty confident in saying most people don’t play competitive leagues where certain items are banned from use.
12:29 The reason why people dislike this so much is because this requires team coordination in a game almost entirely designed around players mostly working around their own selfish agendas, and teamwork mostly being emergent. Most people log onto this game to just play their favorite class and getting frags or a killstreak, and for most of TF2, that's perfectly fine as long as you're not stacking more than two spies. The vaccinator punishes the enemy team for having that kind of individualized playstyle, and that's not what most people find fun about TF2.
The other strategy for dealing with the Vaccinator is going for melee hits, and for most players, that means switching to Spy or Demoknight. Problem is that weapons that force the enemy to switch classes in order to beat also fuck with the game's design philosophy, as it means switching off the class that's your favorite and that you want to play.
Aside from not stacking Spy and making sure your team has a Medic, TF2 mostly tries to avoid forcing players into those kinds of choices, and Valve's said that directly.
It's not OP, people just don't find the counterplay fun cause it turns the game into Overwatch.
"attack with more than 1 damage type"
Vaccinator: "how about no *stacks a bullet and a blast resistance bubble*"
13:10 lack of strong uber is one of two things that make Vaccinator merely an annoying gimmick, the other being effective lack of overheal.
I'll be real, I think your argument for demo knight is fair, but only applies to CTF or games that don't have an end timer, because there is a lot more counter to demo knight then just pyro or engineer,
examples? A soldier rocket jumping away, a scout dodging a demo knights melee (even with 5 heads, its not hard), medic just ubersawing... anyway, sniper jarate bushwacka, heavy.. well heavy, pyro obviously airblast, engineer minisentry or sentry base, spy? Trickstab or get screwed idk, and demo himself just use the half zatoichi.
And obviously player skill is 100% needed for consideration ofc.
This is also going under the assumption that the entire enemy team is just stupid, which 9/10 time's out of 10 isn't the case? Sadly anyway, The reason why demo knight is good on a fair few CTF maps at least is because of close quarters, that's.. frankly it Demo Knight THRIVES in close quarters combat, plane and simple.
Do I think it's overrated? Probably but for specifically demo as a whole I'd argue the iron bomber is more overrated, similarly to how you describe the Original ironically
Anyway, great video Indi, just thought I'd throw my opinion out there too!
@@TheRedzMann Yeah in hindsight the iron bomber probably would have been a better choice, but a big streak for eyelander is still easy to get even against everything you said.
Mostly because when stuff gets dangerous, a full headed demoknight can just run away. Being faster than everyone except a baby face scout, having a max health of 235, 50% blast resistance and 30% fire resistance, you can reliably escape all but a couple remedies.
Even if the streak builds very slowly because you have to keep running in and back out, it’s still very easy to do because almost no one is going to be able to actually kill you, they can only make you fuck off for a short while as you go recharge.
But the iron bomber would have been better because it’s literally stock. Like the difference almost doesn’t exist.
@@indigomer Trust me, from experience it is not as easy to even get to the 5 streak, like if you get there then yes.. it is easier to play a melee class but at the same time, it's not hard to kill a demo knight at the same time.
Because yes +Speed-MeleeClass is really good and with enough skill you can easily live for a while, but I rarely even see that in game, let alone do it myself am I just unlucky or bad? Probably but tbf going off how you describe it sometimes I should be getting it 70% of the time lol
Either way glad we agree on the Iron bomber lmao
@ oh that is something I neglected to bring up, the first 5 is not quite as easy because you don’t have the speed or health to run away from all your problems. So the first 5 is about the same as most other play styles. But once you’re beyond that threshold it stops being difficult.
This video was actually very entertaining, so kudos to that! Honestly I was taken by surprise when I saw you only had 900 subscribers.
Unexpectedly when I uploaded this four days ago I had about 690ish. I got an enormous boost, and I have no idea why the algorithm blessed this nothing-sandwich of a video.
scattergun is the best general option for high sustain damage and great burst but soda popper is just straight up better, there's a reason it's the only scout primary banned in 6s. it has insane burst damage and doesn't push your target away like FaN does, and the hype makes you unkillable if you have good movement and air strafes.
loch-n-load being considered underrated is p funny considering in most scenarios it's just straight up better than stock/iron bomber
vaccinator is awful in pubs because there isn't coordination. forcing focus fire from multiple damage types to counter it is why people hate it, in most pubs there are 1-2 players at the top of the scoreboard that are dominating, the middle of the pack are just there and the bottom of the scoreboard are people that are either new or just goofing around. this means you can hard counter the few good players who are usually either a sniper/heavy/scout or a soldier/demo, you only need 2 dmg resist types at most. you can even pop both types at once on a single heal target. not to mention the build rate is so high you can never really be caught out without at least one charge, making it brainless to play with but requiring far more effort to counter
idk how you can say jarate is overrated, it literally wins teamfights if you throw it on a control point being fought over. it's boring to use sure, but it's broken in how strong it is and that's why people dislike it's effectiveness. if it was only able to mark one player max then sure it might be overrated since it's only usefulness would be countering a spy or scout up close, but that's not why people say it's sniper's best secondary
I agree with almost everything you said but the Soda Popper isn't banned because it has better burst damage. It's banned because salty Soldier mains don't want to deal with the hype. However it would be a limited pick at best if it was unbanned because Scouts that stick with the Scattergun will have a big advantage against other Scouts using the Soda Popper. If you put both Scouts right next to each other in a testing chamber, then yeah the Soda Popper Scout will win, but in a real game you're not going to be constantly getting 2 point-blank meat shots, and the Scattergun might as well have a bottomless clip compared to the Soda Popper.
The Vaccinator is ridiculous in pubs, the vaccinator is basically a litmus test to see how good a player is. New players and middle of the pack players will typically have a more favorable view on the weapon compared to more advanced players who almost universally have a very negative opinion on it when it's used in pubs specifically. I know b4nny and almost all invite level players hate the weapon for example.
I do think the Loch-N-Load is a little underrated, it seems most people consider it trash when it can be better than stock/Iron Bomber is a lot of scenarios, I also agree that Jarate is broken good.
@@twpsyn the jarate is literally a free buff banner charge every 20 seconds
@@potatoweaver4116 out of interest how much comp experience do you have to just brush it off as "salty soldier mains" instead of like, everyone in 6s including scout mains saying please do not unban soda popper because it makes scout better lol
Opinions from sixes players should be considered but only lightly. They play a version of the game that is drastically different from the Tf2 most people experience.
@@indigomer imo it's not that different, it's not like 4v4 passtime vs regular pubs. they play on the same maps with the same gamemodes with 25/160 items banned and class limit 2 (1 on powerful classes).
there you see why loch n load is a straight upgrade in most cases even in a gamemode without a permanent engi just because of what good demos can do with the projectile speed, and in NR 6s soda popper is insane. dynam's video on the soda popper is a pretty good rundown of it from a pub and comp player that also features itjazzy who mains the soda popper and is utterly insane with it
The problem with scout and his stock is that scout is the only class that suffers from the "I see multiple ppl on my screen and have to kill them, so i need all the shots i can get" problem. Every other class either has splash dmg, range or instakills with a relatively ez get away. So every other scatergun having smaller clips is just a huge downside.
I'm not taking it seriously and know that you didn't play that much Heavy and Pyro but it really shows, once you equip Tomislav or Powerjack they really make you feel how slow you are without them.
Big crossbow had spread so far it didn't even make the list
In my opinion, degreaser’panicattack’powerjack pyro is the new meta after lazypurple talked about his loadout in the how it feels to play pyro
I feel like some people got their panties in a wad over someone disagreeing with them...
@@getthepercs6094 you can scroll down and see just that for some people.
12:25 it can have 2, fire is rarely used because pyro usually can’t kill an over-healed heavy. Explosives are decently more common and bullets are the most common, so you really only need 2. The vaccinator gives 75% resistance to any damage type. So over healed heavy with 450hp and 75% resistance equals effectively 1800hp against selected damage type. The vaccinator charges 67% faster, that’s 3x the speed of the normal medi-gun. Most fights in tf2 are only a few seconds, so 2.5 seconds of quadruple health becomes way too powerful.
It's really fun to nail people to the wall with the Rescue Rangers projectile, though.
3:29 Raw Pit
Hey, nice vid! I just have something to say about the Kunai
I think that trickstabs aren’t that important when using the kunai, the kunai is more focused on keeping you alive so that (if you use it well) you can have lots of kills and also survive! I feel that the kunai is better at chainstabs than trickstabs, if you want to make trickstabs use the big earner. So you can do a more passive gameplay getting some kills, heal up, hide, and repeat. I’m also bad at trickstabs, but I still use the kunai because of the chainstabs
But yeah, in conclusion, in my opinion you can still use the kunai as a passive weapon, I also understand that the revolver is a really good weapon but is like the engineer’s pistol, just take it out in case you fail.
Pd: sorry if I have some orthography problems, English is not my main language :(
@GDsanson99 your English looks perfectly good to me, I’m impressed.
I’m more of a stock knife person myself. For me it’s either that or spycicle if it’s necessary.
Also I did say revolver but I myself am an Ambassador user.
a lot of the time the stock purists are in denial. Yes, stock is often the all rounder option, the one good in all situations. The unlocks trade strength in one area for it in another.
I use the Tomislav for greater range and the ability to flank as heavy. No rev sound is such a huge upside when surprising enemies.
I accidentally switched the meaning of overrated and underrated and was like: “Wtf, how is kunai underrated?” Then I re-read the title and was like: “Oohhh…”
Heavy main here. Tomislav is better, but the kill times of the mini guns are consistently under a second. I use the mini gun because the model, especially the australium, looks better than the wimpy Tomislav. And in a serious setting as heavy the thing that matters most is not getting caught reved down. The slight rev speed increase doesn't save you, if you're caught panic-revving then you messed up and you should lose that fight. Tomislav wins most heavy 1v1s, but how often do you have a heavy 1v1. You should be holding a position, and if you are, you will beat the heavy that is pushing up to that position. Mini gun isn't a factor there.
Me personally I think the powerjack is overrated too. The damage vulnerability isn’t worth going barely faster when holding it. The axtinguisher on the other hand is underrated, I use it a lot for combos and terrorizing light classes because of how easy it is to combo into a melee. Especially hard scoping snipers, Demoknights, and cocky melee scouts.
In my opinion the only times I notice the damage vulnerability is against heavys and sentrys
@ I always notice it bc snipers can quickscope and kill you even at full with it even normally you would be left with 25 hp
(Im new to TF2) Personally for Heavy I use the brass beast, because it just feels better for me. Plus, the Silent Killer stat from the Tomislav doesn't help all that much when you're pushing or defending besides that one surprise kill that happens once every 20 matches. At least that's my opinion. Might just be a skill issue idk, I'm an Engi main anyway :/ (im trying out other classes from time to time tho)
@GamerGridStudios.-vq4hp Brass beast isn’t the best minigun but it is hella fun. Wear that thing out, and don’t let anybody tell you it’s inadequate.
@indigomer The funny thing is, the brass beast is good, since everyone cares about the Tomislav, they often don't pay attention to an brass beast Heavy when there's other enemies. Like, I killed a Demo, Soldier, and Overhealed Tomislav Heavy on Turbine in like a minute when they were rushing us. The brass beast isn't bad, it just makes Heavy even more of a specialist. Plus, it's funny how Heavy's react to a Brass Beast Heavy, they don't shoot for like 2secs wich always garanties their death and it's funny as hell. XD
you are 100% correct with your tomislav claim: performs basically the same as stock, just sounds worse
Playing a decrnt mount of heavy, the Tomislav is a Side Grade that i prefer entirely because it's easier to get the drop on people do to the mixture of Silent Spin Up, Tighter Spread, and faster speed. For the Frontline Playstyle, I would agree Tomislav is probably the worst though. Brass Beast and Natascha's Damage Resistance is normally better then it's increased speed for Survival; and Stock is of course, Stock.
The Hou-Long Heater is sad.
in my experience with stock on scout, its just that ammo is insanely good in this game, but i like the other scatters a lot for having fun too
11:39 funnily enough the more i got better at the game the worse the wrangler seemed to get cus your positioning sentries in better spots where the wrangler's upside of extending your sentry range matter less
@99999bomb the range extension is not my issue with the wrangler, I don’t hate that part.
The damn shield makes it impossible to kill head on. You have to have a clear shot at the engineer **and** kill him faster than the sentry kills you, then kill the sentry gun. It’s ridiculous.
The backscatter is my favorite scout weapon. Seeing that “mini-crit!” Pop up every few hits keeps the dopamine flowing 🤤
10:33 as engineer main i literaly like no joke did a prowler meme here XDD
I wouldn't call vaccinator overpowered. If anything, I think it's a very well balanced weapon. That being said, it's also extremely annoying to fight against.
In a pub environment lot of the time you're fighting the vacc combo alone, and both the 10% resistance and the actual vaccinator ubers make those
two players almost unkillable.
Most classes are incapable of dealing multi-style damage outside melee, and many that could will regularly exchange that ability for something else.
Like being singled out by the enemy team in a sport, or a videogame - while your team goes unpunished. You win the game(because they don't have ubers/kritzes), but they ruin your fun in the progress.
Also it's possible to swap your primary&secondary weapon and still retain the heads as a demoknight, as long as the target loadout has the eyelander equipped.
So if you're good enough you can take some heads, visit spawn room, and become fast and tanky demoman.
As a whole, I'm mainly going to speak on behalf of the weapons that could be improved upon in terms of thoughts
Powerjack - While I can get behind why you see it as overrated, genuinely it does start to stack up. 15% (going from 100% to 115%) doesn't really sound like much - and if you're not the most aggressive player, sure, it won't feel like much. But in terms of making the distance, going from Engineer Speed to Medic+ (8% more) Speed can get you much closer to the battle than most other Pyros.
With that being said, I would choose the Scorch Shot in this position. Not that it's bad, it's definitely good - point being, like the Stock Scattergun, most other options on Pyro's Secondary not only can be relatively viable, but also comparably more interesting. Whether it be flare punching, additional mobility from the Detonator or Thruster, or being useless with the Gas Passer, and pretending the Neon pairing makes it good.
Engineer - Realistically, I don't think there is one overrated option for Engineer. The way you presented the two didn't really seem like you had anything, and just wanted an excuse to rant about the duo of hell - which I can understand.
Vaccinator - Yes, it's not the Medigun that is pushing the enemy back - but it's not the most reliable thing to counter. Yes, if the Medic is in the middle of the battlefield, you can go send a Scout, Demo, and Pyro, and he'll be dead. But if he decides to play defensively - say behind a Sentry that would make Pyro ineffective against - good luck trying to kill the guy whose currently being near-immortal, blocks your crits, and continues to farm away on the same two Spies over and over.
The only thing I can really call overrated in regards to a replacement is maybe the Ubersaw - with how the Solemn Vow can debatably be a decently viable alternative. With that being said, it's hard to call one or the other more overrated.
I agree with literally all of these, except the sound effect of the Tomislav. The thoom-thoom-thoom-thoom-thoom is weirdly satisfying to me
I think it would sound better to me if it was a bit bassier, then it would sound like a real autocannon.
@@indigomer Yeah, fair enough
Jag is so overused he forgot to include it in the list
@@OrangeBunt well the Jag is up there but I see plenty enough Gunslingers and Eureka Effects that it didn’t make my pick. Plus I am biased towards it myself because to me, being able to rebuild quickly is substantially more valuable than keeping your stuff alive ever so slightly longer.
@ for sure a very strong tool
As for being the Demon and the Devil advocate:
The Rescue Ranger and Wranlger combo were *nerf* along time ago, which due this combo, the Wrangler now blocks 33% repairs, it doesn't affect much repairs from wrenches, but it DOES affect repairs coming from the Rescue Ranger, making only repairing 20 hp per bolt, which to fully repair a damaged sentry it will take more than 4 bolts to repair IF the shield is active, which in that time-span, classes like Soldier and Demo can easily destroy if no one helps the engineer, but about the Wrangler, Engineers often *don't* place the sentry on horrible spots but rather reinforce a good spot to make sure the defense is hold tight, as show in the video, the wrangler being used with a mini-sentry is very annoying due to the fact even you destroyed the sentry the engineer still have another one just to be placed, which in fact is annoying and brain dead, but using the wrangler as defensive engineer helps alot do deal with spam and of course classes that can easily destroy your sentry, but doing this, like this 11:40 ? I think turing 2 sources of damage info one isn't effective or even fun doing so.
yes the last phrase is from uncle dane
As a someone who plays heavy regularly. I can say that the tomislav is overrated, don't get me wrong the weapon can absolutely shred people at medium to far range, however it falls off significantly at close range. I use the weapon more often if maps like upward have a really long walkway and the spread with the stock minigun will make it very hard to get kills. The weapon is best on offense and in maps that aren't tight like badwater or 2fort. It's a situational sidegrade and not a stock replacement.
this is like watching a soundsmith video made by great blue, i fw it.
@@wooperO0 a weird number of people think I sound like Blue, I’ve also been told I sound like Dane which makes no sense to me.
@@indigomer i do see the similarities to your voice sounding like Blue, but i think honestly its more of the format and style of jokes that kinda reflect it and bring more of a similarity then just voice lol
@ In all fairness, Blue is a bit more PG than I am
Solar Light managed to get a 60 killstreak on Upward in his video "Demoknight Team Fortress 2 (2)" with the Eyelander, which should get him a spot in the TF2 hall of fame.
As a former comp engineer player I must agree with the rescue ranger and wrangler, when ever I used it in casual even defense it just wasn't that fun because of how powerful it is.
Back when the Rescue Ranger didn't use metal and the Wrangler didn't reduce healing 🚬🚬
Med main here.
"I hear so many people complain about the vaccinator like it's the most broken item in Medic's kit, and I hate to break it to you-not even close."
True, that honour goes to the crossbow because it's viable in all situations.
"The vaccinator can enable an Uber for one damage type at a time. So the solution is to attack it with more than one damage type."
No, you can use multiple types leaving a combo soldier/pyro to the same crit melee praying as everyone else.
"If you're fighting with a team like you should be, then it's not difficult to just prod with multiple damage types."
Fair but why should a single weapon lock everyone into playing optimally?
"Even if you're fighting alone, if one is giving you a hard time, you can switch to Soldier or Pyro so you have two damage types on your person."
Why should one weapon have the ability to turn off my interaction to another player?
"Allow me to remind you of the insane power of stock UberCharge or even the Kritzkrieg. In the right circumstances, you see team wipes with those mediguns somewhat regularly, and never once in my life have I seen a vaccinator medic carry a push on his own."
Yes but would you like me to tell you how many Ubers/Kritz I've nulled due to the vaccinator?
"In some situations it's annoying, just like anything else. I mean, you can't really have something be perfectly balanced in every situation-that's impossible."
That's the point of side grades to be stronger in SPECIFIC circumstances. The vaccinator is very annoying in a majority of situations.
"For being so 'overpowered' and in need of a nerf, it's a very exploitable medigun."
Fair enough but it is still too strong in pubs with random players who may or may not know how to properly exploit it.
"People who cry out to the heavens begging for a nerf on this thing? I cannot see your logic."
Their logic is that it limits fun more than any other weapon. Ya like running a banner? Too bad the enemy medic is using vacc. Like flare punches? That's an ez 6-18 seconds of building to turn that fun combo off. Hit a nice quickscope just before you died? Eh, he was on bullet res so he's still standing.
Very well put together video, found myself actually agreeing with most of what you said which is quite rare with tf2 content creators. Keep it up!
Vaccinator hate comes from low populated servers and Arena mode, for the five arena players we hate it
So, I heavily disagree (respectfully) with the Vac.
The Vaxinator's issue is how easy it is to stack the resistances with a strong medic player. Trying to push will all three types can be a harder way to counter (unless you get 12 Demoknights).
I only think the change it needs wild be to have a little change to the resistance change, and that's it
I fully agree with you about weapon feel being the most important. The Reserve Shooter particularly is a hard sell for me because of the horrible firing sound, meanwhile my favorite scattergun is the Back Scatter because it looks cool and has the most satisfyingly heavy firing sound. The Huo-Long Heater is my favorite minigun for the same reasons. It looks sick and sounds dope as fuark.
So close to 1000 keep it up ❤❤
The reason why the vac is so annoying and hated is because you need multiple people to deal with it. It's not like you can manifest other people at will when you encounter one. If it really was a simple as you implied there would be way less complaints
Well you see, even with low coordination in casual everyone knows that you shoot the medic first. If you’re alone, fall back where people are, kill him together.
@indigomer Most people won't do that, it could be egos wanting to think they don't need help or not wanting to run or just in the moment and they can't think clearly, or you don't live long enough to escape. Just shoot the medic first can be difficult if the medic is smart, the target is destroying everyone, or god forbid both. And of course, stacking ubers. Me and stock demo once beat two pyros and a top scoring high ranking soldier who ambushed us just because the demo wouldn't die thanks to being able to stack ubers. The soldier shared his "compliments" in chat after the encounter
@ I’m not sure what your casual games look like, but most games don’t equate to people lining up single file to attack the pocket medic. Even without words, the players with more than 3 hours of experience know that the medic has to go first. And they usually attack together because he’s either on the point or at least out in the front with the power classes.
Unless you’re just unluckier than I am, I have rarely had the problem of teammates not attacking the medic along with me. That only happens when I’m put on a full team of idiots and we were going to be steamrolled regardless.
For medic, I'd say the Ubersaw is more overrated than the Vac. Sure, 25% uber instantly is powerful, but as a medic you have no reason to be taking melee fights unless you're out of position. Ubersaws supposedly dealing random crits more often is probably the most egregious case of confirmation bias in the game as well
I can’t speak all that confidently because medic is my least played, but my interpretation for ubersaw is it’s boring and situational but the alternatives are either more situational or worse versions of the ubersaw.
The closest alternative is the amputator, would be awesome if it weren’t so limited to choke points. But you can take that as you will, when I play medic it’s usually because the team needs one so I just run the meta of crossbow/stock/ubersaw. And ubersaw isn’t used by “press w and hope for the best,” it’s more useful when “hey this guy is close and focusing on my pocket, I’ll run and grab a quick hit.”
I 100% agree with you, with some additional points;
1. The Scattergun is reliable but the Soda Popper is easily at least the second best, if not on par with stock. It requires a different playstyle to a more standard Scout and very precise aim to do well, which I imagine is why most players prefer the Scattergun. Also, it just feels less satisfying than stock to be honest. Stock has that satisfying click on the reload and a more generally appealing design overall, kinda like your Tomislav versus Minigun comparison.
2. FINALLY someone addresses the Gunboat Garry's in the room. I understand that it's ridiculously flexible and opens up a lot of expressive plays, but I've managed to create my own Soldier loadouts that do the same in their own unique way, leaning into Soldier's role as a self-sufficient frontliner and taking on the oft-forgotten role as the uncontested deathmatch king. The addition of a shotgun allows a Soldier to easily gain the upper hand in situations where he'd otherwise be forced to retreat and doubles his damage potential. I understand why he takes on a more specialized role in competitive, and why people enjoy a playstyle oriented around flanking and outpositioning the opponent, but in the chaotic and unpredictable environment of a pub, the shotgun is an incredibly reliable supplement to the rocket launcher that mitigates its most glaring weaknesses and important to keep in the back of your mind, and not only when a competent Pyro joins the enemy team.
3. 100% agree. The Axtinguisher and Backscratcher deserve far more praise than they get, enabling massive bursty plays or a self-sufficient playstyle oriented around flank rotations. The Powerjack feels like a nice middle ground between these two options with the benefit of rollout speed, but its downside is definitely there, particularly when Snipers are involved.
4. The Eyelander is nice for snowballing, especially if you aren't particularly good at charge manipulation or melee combat in the first place. It's a good crutch for players who are frankly terrible at Demoknight by letting them farm a few heads off of newb Spies and proceed to play like a less effective but tankier Spy or Scout. The problem with this strategy is that it discourages prioritizing high-value targets like Medics, since that would risk losing all of your heads assuming they're competent and relatively well-defended. It encourages you to focus on easy targets - mostly useless enemy players whose absence barely provides an advantage to your team. As far as Demoman melees go, I'm on the side of Solarlight that all the options are valid, but the most consistent has to be the Half-Zatoichi. The raw health value it gains you on each kill lets you snowball at least as well as an Eyelander while enabling highly aggressive or even nearly suicidal plays.
That said, I like the Eyelander because it looks fucking badass and has a unique and interesting mechanic attached to it that the Valve devs clearly put a lot of love into. The way the sword whispers to you for heads or the way your eye begins to glow as you gain more power is just pure AWESOME factor. Also the funny thing where you swap to stickies after getting 4 heads to become a faster and harder to kill demoman and stomp a server :P
I think people let the awesome factor and iconic nature of the Eyelander somewhat skew their opinions on other Demoman swords when, if you're trying to play Demoknight in a way that gives your team an advantage, other options may be better suited to a particular game state or are just plainly more fun to use, allowing you to chain kills straight out of spawn instead of needing time to ramp up to full effectiveness.
5. Fair enough. I'm a Tomislav main myself, but that's because it better matches my particular playstyle of Heavy with an emphasis on flexibility and self-sufficiency.
6. Thank GOD, another player who also despises using the Wrangler. I know a lot of Engineer players swear by it for a reason, it provides a lot of value, but I think people forget just how strong the pistol can be. In all my testing, the TTK against a target being focused by both a sentry gun and a pistol is faster than that of someone being focused by the Wrangler outside of the farthest edges of the Sentry's range where the Wrangler's lack of spread starts to become a meaningful advantage, and that's because the Wrangler actually provides a much smaller boost to fire rate than people assume; it's nowhere near DOUBLE the Sentry's fire rate, at most around 50% when used on a mini-sentry, the lowest damage version of the Sentry Gun. If you're building exclusively for maximizing damage, the Pistol is simply the obvious choice. It's the most damaging Engineer secondary with the added benefit of being completely separate from your Sentry Gun, allowing you to fire from two different angles instead of one. The advantage of the Wrangler is obviously as a utility item; being able to expand your Sentry's range, increase its already immense knockback, and most importantly triple its effective health are the reasons you run it when assuming a traditional defensive support role for the Engineer, but the Pistol is more than deserving of a seat at the table when it comes to alternative playstyles, particularly ones that want to trade defensive utility for offensive power.
7. A little known counter to the Vaccinator is Pyro, particularly the Phlogistinator. This is because of a change during Jungle Inferno (or was it Gun Mettle?) where the afterburn caused by a Flamethrower reduces the effectiveness of a Vaccinator bubble by a significant amount, including its protection from critical hits. While the resistance still exists, a Vax medic expecting a fire bubble to save him from a Phlog uber will be proven wrong in a shockingly short order due to this effect, the combination of crits and resistance reduction giving it roughly a similar TTK to that of a stock flamethrower against a defenseless Medic. Also just playing a defensive Engineer seems to do the trick since it's pretty rare a Vaccinator combo can actually get the momentum needed to take out a gun that's being actively tanked.
8. The piss jar is honestly overpowered. It has a similar effect to the Buff Banner for next to no risk or opportunity cost and enables the unreliable if somewhat unfair option of a guaranteed crit with the Bushwacka. I do really like the way the SMGs synergize with the Sniper Rifle, though, so I tend to use them instead.
9. The Kunai is 100% an annoying weapon to counter sometimes, especially since it feeds off of your teammates' lack of awareness in a similar fashion to a snowballing Demoknight build, but with less reliable methods to shut him down besides the one class in the game that can deny a backstab with nearly perfect consistency within a pretty sizeable radius, the babysitt- I mean the Pyro. Even then, Heaven Forbid the cocky bastard doesn't bring the Diamondback and two tap you with a tenth of his stored crits that he can farm dozens of by the end of a round due to your clueless Engineer. But, as you say, Spy isn't entirely oriented around backstabs, and while enabling a well-timed stab to be a get out of jail free card can be powerful, it also assumes you can reliably get a backstab when you need it, which isn't always true. Good use of Cloak is already a pretty effective getaway for Spy, even against enemy Pyros due to the halved debuff duration; clever enough evasive movement can get you out of almost any sticky situation, to the extent that the number of situations where the Kunai can provide value isn't necessarily enough to make up for the times you get oneshot before you can even make it to a juicy back.
@@emirwattabor6991 I should specify, I don’t dislike the gunboats. I love using them myself. I put them on the list mostly because the majority of players who use them treat them like it’s the only secondary worth even considering. It’s like that guy who eats the same exact thing for lunch every day and refuses to try anything else.
I’m the polar opposite, not a single class I play regularly has only one loadout that I use. Most of them I use all four slots. Variety and unique weapon design is one of the big reasons Tf2 is so great, so it makes no sense to me why people pick *one* lane and stick to it.
On the scout one i'd go as far as saying the Soda Popper is Better than the Stock
@@certifiedicecreamtruckmoment situationally I can see that, but I myself really don’t care for it. It’s good but for me at least it fills the same role as stock while having a smaller magazine capacity so it’s just not for me.
Stock still better for just wanting to enjoy the game and not wanting to put 3000 hours on learning how to use a double barrel shotgun
okay on pyro part i could say most overrated weapon would be degreaser, not saying the powerjack cuz it's actually very helpfull to reach some spots in the map( you can reach the top of the bridge in 2fort for example).
7:20 skullcutter. Not only will it one shot them if you get a random crit, you might even make him ragequit or switch loadouts.
@butlazgazempropan-butan11k87 oh I absolutely hate the skullcutter, but the number of users for it are small enough where I can’t call it overrated. In medieval exclusivity, perhaps.
@indigomer I meant that the skullcutter is a great counter to the eyelander, they hate it the most
@ oh I’ve already picked a demoknight counter, BFB.
Yeah I normally use the bottle, but if I see a max head Eyelander Demoknight I will switch to the Skullcutter. 60% chance to one shot them is pretty good.
I wholeheartedly disagree with both the heavy and medic picks. Firstly, tomislav isnt anywhere near as fanatically worshiped as the sandwich, and secondly, the crossbow/ubersaw hold that same situation as the sandwich on medic.
The vac doesnt make you almost invulnerable at one resistance at a time but you can stack them, also, you can actually make your patient invulnerable by healing into mini uber into arrow into back to healing. Your opponent will get tickled while getting an insane amount of heal, I do it when there is one good player in my team and we win the majority of the time. Also, kunai spies think they are good because they backstab a new player and become very tanky, in fact, most kunai spies ive seen are genuinely terrible, play another knife and learn how to play the game (not to you, indigo, but im talking in general)
The most overated weapon is definitly the phlogistinator. Yea you are able to get crits, but due to not having airblast you are now left defenseless against the entire enemy team. Because of this getting in a fight with a soldier or demoknight, (2 of the few classes pyro counters) becomes impossible, and your lack of supportive skills, alongside the ability of impacting player positioning, makes it so getting into flamethrower range will most likely end in your death. the Only 1v1s you'll win as a phlog pyro are against a spy, a scout in a closed room (Which you could already kill effectively), or a medic or demoman. However you cant even kill a Medic effectively since they are always surrounded, and not having airblast means we cant reflect back explosion damage as a way to get group kills. Its only benefit is that once you get 300 points of damage you can activate your crits, which although doesn't sound like a lot damage it feels like it since you have to be extremely careful not to get instantly killed when your hitbox dares approach a group of enemy players, since without airblast you lack all defensive capabilities. Even when you actually achieve to kill a group of players with your crits youll still end up dying, since in order for the phlogs slow playstyle to be effective you have to practically throw yourself towards a group of enemies and hope to kill as many as you can before you die. The only thing that makes this gun bearable are the flare guns, which allow the pyro to rack up mphhhhh without being closed range. Then again flares are hard to hit, and at that point just use a normal flamethrower, which awards minicrits for reflects and still gives you the crit for landing a flare shot on a burning player, plus the additional defensive capabilities. the only reason this gun is so hated is because of the scorchshot, since its AOE does massive area fire damage, and is extremely OP. This raks up the Mphhhh meter very fast, and in truth is a very OP combo since you don't have to deal with getting countered by every class in the game as long as you can just gain your fire damage from far away, ranking up the fire damage and giving the phlog an actual aggressive playstyle. However the phlog is still the worst flamethrower since it absolutely sucks with any other loadout other than that specific one.
I wouldn’t say so. Phlog gets a lot of use but according to most Phlog users I have spoken to they understand it’s the worst flamethrower due to its lack of airblast. So even though it’s popular I don’t think I would consider it overrated because even the people who main with it rate it moderately.
Don’t blame the phlog, blame the scorch shot which is basically a second primary
uhhh... I don't know if you perfectly calculated your opinions or something but I agree with practically every single one you mentioned. you must be the chosen one, it's the first time something like this happends to me lol
The Tomislav is better than stock because of speed, that’s pretty much it. The DPS difference is negligible, and the accuracy is a nice bonus. But being able to rev, unrev, and re-rev your gun so fast is why it’s just objectively better than stock. Stock isn’t a bad gun; it’s always been perfectly fine. It’s just that the Tomislav does everything the stock does at a longer range and better. Even the DPS difference isn’t that large because the Tomislav starts firing so much sooner. Considering heavies massive DPS numbers, I’m not sure this would even matter tbh. You still kill classes in less than a second lol.
@@robbierotten2024 Tomislav is better but it’s like 1% better, the difference is so small that it might as well be a reskin.
Hey, I saw that guy in a landfall server. Cool video.
Landfall best map
@@indigomer Yep, its certainly much better than 2 fort
well medic main here to be honest the vacc is the last option id be equipping the healing is way to sluggish to the point its not worth the bubbles you get...its a good option when a spefic damage type or pressure but the fact the healing rate is lower is what i hate to be truthful stock or even kritz is more chaotic and if we are sincere even quickfix
the trade off is way to high even if you get 4 bubbles but its not worth a 1.5 sec bubble a stock uber literally is no damage and quick fix you gain the no knockback tradeoff and healing rates that makes up the lack of being invincible and they last a whole 8 seconds and the vacc one random crit if your not quick your gone for not popping the bubble
i agree on your take good job
Baby face losing boost is seen as such a negative thing. 360hu/s is fast, and with any boost you're probably at least 400. 520hu/s is VERY fast. That's 30% faster than Scout normally; the run speed cap. Spy gets an extra boost from cond 32 compared to other classes for mysterious reasons (cond 32 wasn't adjusted after his 20 u/s speed buff), so he goes at 505hu/s after a big earner stab. This effect feels more potent bc of the motion lines cond 32 adds. Meanwhile, BFB, besides being held to the standards of the speediest class, communicates better the loss of boost as a punishment more than the gain of boost as a reward. You don't primarily feel good from a meatshot because you can go fast now, and many just feel a rollercoaster of opportunity anxiety, others no satisfaction. I don't rly use the BFB, but I can't help but feel like a scout weapon with -2 ammo and -10% speed that just gives you a speed boost on kill would be seen as better, even though that would be a direct downgrade from the current BFB.
The Vaccinator take bugs me a lil bit. I'm a Heavy main, and being told "well use your melee to counter the Vaccinator" clearly comes from people who've never played Heavy for more than a couple hours.
And the "change class" thing is just straight up stupid, like "if you want to counter it change class" - people are fine with the idea that an unlockable completely negates the fun and possibilities of classes with one damage type, and that your only tool as a Heavy/Demo is to go back to your base and stop playing your desired class? aye okay sure
Yo is that turbo dismount music? Subscribed instantly
I don't even play tf2 anymore but I am very happy I have another tf2 youtuber to watch vids from.
Most overrated for Engie is Jag. It's good on offense, but not a direct upgrade as everyone says.
I wish I live in a place where most pyros use the powerjack instead of the scorch shot
The Big Earner is my favorite Spy Weapon.