Masculinity
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- Is Masculinity in crisis? I don't know, let's have a chat, eh?
Charities you can talk to:
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Centre for Suicide Prevention (Canada) - cmha.ca/docume...
Samaritans - www.samaritans...
Befrienders Worldwide - www.befriender...
International Association for suicide prevention - www.iasp.info/...
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#DavidJBradley #Masculinity
I have a male best friend who I live with and sometimes it makes me super sad that I have this very aesthetic decor style but he doesn’t seem to be able to wrap his head around anything but absolute minimalism.
I’ve also noticed a huge difference between how men and women come across in dating apps. As a PanRo, I have my preferences set to all genders and honestly, the gaps between male and female profiles is astonishing. Women very often have these bubbly bios full of info about their hobbies and job and goals, whereas a lot of men seem to be almost embarrassed to show any kind of enthusiasm for the things that they like. Mostly they stick with something like “I like Netflix, video games and going to the gym,” accompanied by some half assed joke so you know they definitely aren’t taking themselves seriously.
It’s like men aren’t allowed to enjoy things or get excited or show any kind of enthusiasm or emotion without being deeply ashamed about it and it makes me genuinely really sad. 🥺
Yeah, it's difficult to break yourself of. Especially because the communities that form around interests that are more 'acceptably' male are often policed by gatekeepers. Telling them the ways they're supposed to like stuff. It's tough to break out of.
Ehrm, so while he might be using minimalism because he is afraid of showing emotion, but there are many men and women who don't and use minimalism to make their lives better, and sometimes even as a way to manage their attention spans. I know nobody said minimalism was automatically bad, but I just wanted to point out that minimalism can absolutely be done joyously and with a lot of personality.
A HA I totally get that and you’re totally right! I feel like I maybe worded the first part of my comment insensitively. I wasn’t trying to come for minimalism. And I also don’t think my best friend has a problem with expressing emotion. It’s more like he doesn’t feel comfortable expressing his INTERESTS.
Specifically with this person, he’s been my best friend for 14 years. We live together and have discussed toxic masculinity and the negative effects of it like so many times. I feel pretty confident in my assessment of his situation specifically, but I absolutely don’t want to paint all minimalists with the same brush. I totally get that there are loads of reasons someone might not like flashy aesthetics.
That being said, I do still think there’s a difference between the way men are encouraged to decorate and how women are encouraged to. The only people in my life who really get excited about things like flowers and candles and throw pillows, for example, are women. I even see a difference in the ways men and women sometimes approach minimalism itself. Gender roles find ways of leaking into everything.
@@lazylikeaturtle7800 gender roles can be very insidious indeed. I didn't think you were being insensitive to minimalism, it just is a very common misconception even among newbie minimalists.
I hope your friend will become more comfortable decorating with his interests, there are a lot of fun versions of a lot of nerdy things that are in a more stereotype minimalistic aesthetic. E.g. a low polygons bulbasaur concrete planter (or in white ceramic), or shadow art, minimalist lineart. More perishable decoration that is still manly and minimalist is ikebana. Gotta find a good gateway drug that combines his interests with his taste in interior design. Might be a fun idea for a gift, if he accepts non-edible/non-event gifts.
From my experience with other men, they are allowed to get excited about things like sports and their vehicles they keep that enthusiasm to male spaces. I used to work in a car dealership and I always felt out of place in meetings because I couldn't keep up with the talk about last night's hockey game (I would much rather talk about art films or sci-fi books). Also they get really protective of such things, one of the sales guys got incredibly offended when after he explained fantasy hockey I commented that it sounded a lot like DnD. He went from joyfully describing the system to bitterly protective of his hobby.
men back then: breadwinners
men now: breadtubers
Ok this wins puns
@@DavidJBradley you mean it wins buns? :D
@@barninghurtsalot3054 Nah, he means it takes the cake
"Fellas, is it gay to prevent the spread of a deadly pandemic?" is the thing that made me sub to this channel.
Same.
I'm just happy that old spice has lavender smells now.
So funny!
SnowAiry 123 : Maybe. Depends on what you typed. TH-cam has a auto censor feature on channels.
Trust, it doesn’t take much for TH-cam to get offended by the slightest possible inappropriate words, but yet at the same time, TH-cam continuously sends out thumbnails for inappropriate Jake Paul videos to millions of viewer’s stream.
SnowAiry 123 ...not sure. TH-cam is very finicky about their censorship which, based on the content they promote is completely is hypocritical.
Check out the list of forbidden words .its very extensive
"Young girls who are mistakenly being called boys because of their genitals" hit me so hard as a trans girl.
I can't imagine what that would be like as a young person. I was so deep in the closet back then, I feel like it helped limit how much I was bullied. I remember having the train of thought of "I'm glad im not gay, but all of the others boys sure are better at not presenting gay, than I am"
I was so deep in that closet I wasnt even allowed to admit that gender was a separate idea
@@RextheRebel transphobia has entered the chat
I know, like, what a refreshing way to frame the concept of trans kids... wasn't expecting that from a cis guy. Respect.
Like, sometimes snakes can tell gender, or like parrots, cause they sometimes have preferred friendship based on gender, maybe that shouldn't be used for showing kids genders
Confession time:
When I was in kindergarten, a boy in my class had painted his nails red. I told him boys don’t paint their nails. Back then, I knew nothing more than the gender constructs I had been taught. Luckily, my teacher stepped in and said both boys and girls can paint their nails. I’m glad she said that, cuz I wouldn’t want that boy to always think painting his nails was wrong
I had a guy friend in elementary school who admitted his favorite color was pink when I told him mine was pink. I almost told him that "Guys can like pink?" I'm glad I didn't open my mouth because he went on to say it was his favorite part of sunsets and I hold that moment close to my heart.
Sometimes, you're just part of a social system without understanding how or why. As someone who was bullied for failing to live up to masculinity, I remember laying awake and thinking up strategies on how I was going to run faster, catch the ball, fight someone, or in whatever way prove that I was good enough. I don't think anyone on the other side spent any time thinking about me......they were just making a joke, indicating something out of place, or filling some time by taking my book. As an adult, I transitioned to female, and I realized that a big part of the bullying was in my own head. I didn't want the headache of being trans; I wanted to be cis, so I amplified little microaggressions into a whole choir of voices telling me who to be.
All that to say: We're all in our own worlds, and sometimes our passing comments can hurt people in ways we can't understand. But we're all in our own worlds; you can't blame yourself for being a silly 6 year old that doesn't know what gender is or how it works....when I was 6, the thing I wanted most was to be a man.
they are a queen/king, periodt.
when i was a kid i remember making fun of a boy in my class because his favourite colour was purple. i still think about that sometimes, i hope it didn't get to him too much
The other day I was taking care of a couple of kids at a park for some time (one I knew and one I didn't). I have short hair and wear very neutral and baggy clothes, but I feel like I'm a very feminine person, maybe that's why the kid I didn't know said "hi girl". I answered "hi" and he went "I called you a girl" and started laughting. That's when I realized he thought I was a feminine guy and calling me a girl was the way he was making fun of me. The other kid went on to tell him "yeah, because she's a girl" and he was kinda shocked, but I was aswell...
Refreshing to see a discussion of the state of modern masculinity that isn't a trojan horse for anti feminism. Thanks
@Analyzing Male Slavery what?! That seems a little bit ridiculous tbh.
Is that a thing? Damn
The irony of that is that toxic masculinity is a feminist-recognized issue and a result of the patriarchy
I had to watch 2 of David's videos before I was willing to believe it wasn't a Trojan horse.
@@svrvphimprod yeah feminism actually observes all the harm that the patriarchy causes on both men and women and mens rights activists b like MEN ARE OPPRESSED FEMINISM IS STUPID :|
How to be a man:
be as swift as the coursing river
with all the force of a great typhoon
with all the strength of a raging fire
mysterious as the dark side of the moon
@@lolllll8179 Thanks!
👑
OwO
did you make this up? or is it a quote somewhere?
@@thetntchicken142 It's the song "Be a man"
@@thetntchicken142 the great thing about this is that Mulan, a woman disguised as a man, was able to complete the challenge that "only a real man would be able to".
Basically the entire film is a take-down of both traditional gender roles and strict adherence to old rules, but it doesn't feel ham-fisted or preachy.
It's great and everyone should watch it
everything I aspire to be
Teaching boys to sexualize and romanticize women starts so early, too. It's quite sad. Once I was in a walmart about to leave with my groceries when a toddler boy waved at me. I thought he was so cute so I waved back and said "hello." Then his mom notices and tells him "Oh, are you waving to your, girlfriend, there?" in the sweetest mom voice. And I started to feel nauseous. I didn't know either of them and I was in my early 20s.
as someone who's been on the other side of that experience… who's been the "little boy" whose parents and guardians turned nearly every expression of friendship or sympathy with women or girls into "aw, is that your girlfriend!?"… it was fucking weird and gross imo, and i expect there were/are a lot of little boys who felt the same way
(i don't mean to minimise your experiences at all btw! but your comment reminded me of something from my own childhood, and how this aggressive enforcement of cisheteronormativity harms people irrespective of (assigned) gender, albeit in different ways)
It was probably meant to be harmless... And maybe your over reacting is wut I would have said if that's not something which was said by people close to me over the years and... Honestly most of it was harmless banter but now if I talk with any girl I will automatically think I am 'flirting' which I am desperately trying to not be so thirsty? Idk. Overall I'd probably not gonna do the gf jokes to my kids until they r in their 20s.
Edit: Was randomly bantering shiz sry if it made zero sense
soupalex Same here but with any and all males I meet. I’m ftm but my mom doesn’t know, and every time I talk to a guy or about a guy or become friends with a guy she’s just like “Do you like him???” And keeps accusing me of having a crush on them, yet never mentions girls (let alone enby people) even though I’ve told her I like girls. I have two friends who are dating and every now and then my mom will ask if they’re still dating, then immediately after when I answer yes ask if I’m jealous or have a crush on the guy and my answer is always the same, no, but she’s so persistent. I’ve told my friends ab it and they agree that it’s kind of creepy. Not even just my mom though, most of my family, my grandparents, my aunt, not to mention every female in my moms side of the family likes to randomly slap my ass, and if I said it made me uncomfortable bc it does I’d be asked why and told I’m overreacting (for both the whole guys thing and ass smacking thing.) sorry this wasn’t meant to turn into a rant.
right? It’s so gross. A baby smiles (as babies do) and if the baby’s a boy, he’s “such a little flirt!” I know my mom does this so it was normalized to me but looking back on it it’s so creepy.
My dad used to tease me like this when I was in elementary/middle school and I ended up just never telling my family when I was in relationships.
The worst example of toxic masculinity I probably ever saw was during my medical practice. I'm a med student and I had the practice at the pediatric office and a little boy, maybe 1 year old, was getting his vaccination. He, as any baby or toddler getting shots would, started to cry and while his mum tried to comfort him, the sad said this. 'Don't cry, bog Boys don't cry! What will the lady doctor' pointing at me 'here say? She'll laugh at you!'
Well, if I actually were a 'lady doctor' I would be much more likely to lecture the dad on Basic child pschology then to laugh a crying toddler (I'm just a student however, it's not my plave to speak). What kind od a person shames A ONE YEAR OLD KID for crying when getting shots?!?!
When I say that this is the worst example I don't necessarily think in magnitude-I mean it would be worse to, IDK beat someone up because they looked at your girlfriend. But it starts at such a youg age-that kod wasn't even able to walker
yet, he can't talk, he was ONE YEAR OLD but was still taught that crying when hurting is 'not manly enough'.
Damn, if I were in that situation, I probably would want to respond with “No I wouldn’t. Crying is natural.” just to shame the dad. (Of course, I wouldn’t actually respond with that, because I only think of these things in hindsight and too late to follow through...)
I once saw a dad buy colourful bubblegum from a dispenser with his little boy. The piece that came out was pink so the dad went "aaaw no... You wanna get a new one?"
And the little boy nodded.
It made me sad to see such a young man so insecure by a piece of gum.
@@novanettle7497 Ok...but....WHYYY? That makes even less sense then, let's say not buying a pink T-shirt. The thing was probably pink because it was strawbery or raspberry or cherry flavour! Is that kid not allowed to eat strawberr yogurt because it's pink too?
I'm happy to see that Boys wearing Pink is getting normalized. A few days ago a saw a group of preteen boys walking to soccer practice and one had bright pink sneakers and the other conplimented!
@@elenanojkovic2554 to ad to the confusion, I can tell you that those bubblegum balls all have the same flavor - bubblegum flavor.
And I'm not good with guessing the age of children but he could barley talk but could walk ok - I'm guessing much too young to actually care about colour of food though.
imagine, a big strong boy, already a whole year old, CRYING because of a sharp needle! what a pussy! /s
I like the idea of quiet strength, kindness, gentleness as masculine traits. I think I feel most masculine when I'm in a support role.
I feel the same way. I think it's the idea of being helpful and dependable that feels nice in a gender re-affirming way.
Authentic masculinity, instead of forced.
Definitely!
I'm rewatching to Bleach and I'd say we all would gain to be more like the Chad from Bleach and less like the Chad from mêmes.
You're supposed to
As a transmasculine person, my thoughts and feelings about masculinity are pretty interesting I think. I’m not a particularly masculine guy, at least not in the way that toxic masculinity defines it.
I didn’t grow up being told all the things that boys are told, that they are not supposed to cry and stuff like that, however I often feel as if I had to be hyper masculine to “prove” to others that I’m really a trans guy. When I came out to my parents, they told me that they didn’t believe I was a guy because in their eyes everything about me was “feminine”. I asked for an example, and they told me about how the shoes I recently bought were clearly nothing a real man would ever wear (which is funny because multiple cis guys have told me that they think the shoes look awesome and some even asked me where I got them, and they are explicitly unisex shoes, and just colorful sneakers that are apparently not masculine because they have bright colors), and how my reaction to when these shoes arrived was very feminine (because apparently expressing happiness is feminine, because oh no it’s an e m o t i o n other than rage). I guess part of this I have internalized, because I now often examine the way I behave to search for anything that could be considered feminine (and then think that that is absolutely stupid). I sometimes doubt wether I’m really trans but always come to the conclusion that no, I am indeed trans, I just hate toxic masculinity.
Many trans men have fallen into the trap of trying to fulfill the standards of toxic masculinity to try to prove their manhood, and I definitely don’t want to become one of them. I don’t want to transition from pretending to be one gender when it made me very uncomfortable to trying to bow to the unreasonable standards of another gender, censoring myself and not expressing my personality any more in the process.
I want to be a guy with long hair, I want to break societies expectations by doing things like wearing black nail polish (and also be a bit of a goth XD), and in fact, I already am. I already am a guy with long hair breaking gender standards, I’m just not perceived as a guy by most people yet.
I too am asexual btw, and that’s another reason why I feel so alienated by toxic masculinity. It makes it feel as if being a guy was all about sex with women and as if I’m not a proper guy if I’m not interested in that. And I’m kinda scared of people having those expectations for me once I’m seen as a guy. As awful as it makes me feel being perceived as a girl, there’s this clichee of women being hyposexual while men are hyper sexual which just isn’t true, and I guess people judge those who they perceive as women less about being asexual (while also not believing them because they think that that is either just a normal thing for a woman, or that they “just need to have good sex”, which opens a whole other can of worms that is corrective rape that I won’t get into details about here), while asexual men are often just seen as plain “wrong” or “broken”, and people assume that there must be something wrong with them (or that they just don’t want to admit they’re gay), because due to toxic masculinity a man that doesn’t feel sexually attracted to people is seen as impossible.
To conclude: fuck toxic masculinity, it doesn’t define who is a man and who isn’t.
THIS. I can concur A LOT of Transmasculine and Trans guys fall into this trap good on you for recognizing it and avoiding it. Good luck in your transition.
Mood
I think it can be difficult to find good masculine role models. I know I've struggled to find them all of my life. Out of all of my family, I had one cousin who would yell at his employees and be rate people, but he also sometimes listened to people and he was good at holding babies... that was like... the closest to a decent male role model I had growing up. Most male stars were jerks, teachers were usually ass holes. The one male teacher I thought was a good role model, ended up being convicted for sexually assaulting minors. For context I grew up in an rural city of about 100k.
Since growing up and moving to bigger cities, I've met LOTS of incredible men that are exceptional role models, but ya... not a single one in my entire grade school life. There are FAR too few decent men, and most of them are trans :p
As a cis man, the transmasculine humbles me. Masculinity is so fraught, confused, and knotted up against itself, and so harmful (for us and others) - and yet, transmen go through great struggle and sacrifice to take their place among us, in this mess of a gender. It fills me with a kind of wonder: that underneath all the machismo, fragility, and frustration of masculinity (as conditioned in the cis experience) there's something else, the same thing that transmen identify with and carry within (not born of punishing scrutiny and violence, but something else). I think (or hope) that the solution to this crisis of masculinity might come from transmasculinity, which if embraced and accommodated could embody a sort of mirror within masculinity as a whole, a revelation to cismasculinity of what we really are.
yi Boy, is this familiar.
I had the same problem, in reverse. When I came out to my mom as trans, she brought up an incident that occurred when I was ten. She had bought me a pink shirt, and I refused to wear it, she said, because I considered it a “girl’s” shirt. What she wasn’t aware of at the time was that I was being bullied daily because I acted “too girly.” I didn’t want to add fuel to the fire.
She rejected that explanation, however, using that incident as proof that I was not really trans. To the day she died, she never once called me ‘Rachel.’
I've always preferred feminine men, and have been frustrated my whole life that media and society punishes men who might otherwise enjoy performing in more stereotypical feminine ways
The media celebrates it actually
@@Mooskislide care to examplify?
@@tirone7520 i think they mean as media like social media with a lot of younger people and stuff, not really tv or etc.
As a panromantic when thinking of men I have always preferred the more traditionally feminine men so I get what you mean. I don't see many men in the media that look and act in a more 'feminine' way and the characters especially those that act rather than look it, are often shown to be somehow wrong or are changed as a part of their development to be more 'masculine'.
@@gombocdimensional9050 you didn't need to bring schizophrenic people into this
My 4-year old brother saw me putting on nail polish the other day and repeatedly asked me if he could try some on cause he loved the way it looked. I obliged, and when my mom saw it she was FURIOUS, telling me it was "sending the wrong message." He. Is. FOUR. Coloring your fingernails apparently uproots everything about your identity if you're male.
Reminds of the time my dad yelled at my nephew for crying because the dog growled at him.
My nephew was two.
I think, though girls get teased and their parents have odd reactions when they are tomboys, boys get much worse treatment when they show more feminine traits. There are many different reasons people have given but I think a large part of it is that (traditionally) masculinity is tied with strength and power and femininity is tied with daintiness and softness and when a girl wants to be masculine, even if people try to dissuade them, it feels understandable, but when a boy wants to be feminine people cannot understand why a boy would choose something they perceive as weaker. They are wrong, of course. But I've seen it in my own parents, I was a tomboyish girl and I got the common "girls shouldn't sit like that" "ladies don't speak like that" but my littlest brother was somewhat feminine when he was young and there was so much more worry and nail-biting over why he was so sensitive and whether or not he would grow out of his bouncy little walk. Of course this fear of femininity got tied up with a good dollop of homophobia and so when my little brother was asked if he liked anyone in his PRESCHOOL class and he responded that Grant was fun to play with everyone insisted and insisted he had misunderstood and surely there was a girl he liked until he finally told them that yes he had a friend named Maddy and he didn't really like Grant all that much and my heart hurt seeing him upset like that because he couldn't understand why it mattered at all, but it obviously did to my family
they’re gonna make him think that he shouldn’t have male friends :/
as your brother grows up he will probably suffer more and more from it
Make sure he will have you where he can be whoever he wants
oh my god! this is so similar to me and my young brother, i was always criticized for being not feminine and that did affect me to the degree that mentally can't cook, and if i did, i won't show my family so they don't get happy cuz their "daughter made food like all women should".
but my young brother... oh boy my poor little innocent brother got it so much worse that they sent him to therapy twice to make him "normal". i was the closest to him but still wanted him to be "fixed" cuz i wanted my family to be together and happy. after highschool he travel to japan and would rarely answer us, my mom loves him alot but can't understand why he doesn't want to come back 😂
luckily after half a year of no communication i finally got in touch with him and told him that i approve and accept him no matter what he is and what he wants to be, after that he never left me on read!
sorry for going on a tangent but i felt that life mistreated him a lot and i feel guilty for not supporting him as much as i should have. both of us are part of the lgbtq+ so we'll continue on supporting each other. and i hope you and your brother as well!
@@montarou-chi I am so glad to hear that you were able to get back in contact with him and support him! I don't know what the age difference is for you both, but try not to feel too guilty, you were young as well.
My brother is still quite young and I just recently moved to South Korea, but I have kept a discord channel open for him and told him he can always reach out to me. Until he lives away from home I'm afraid that's the most I can do, other than my visits during the holidays, but I've always been as clear as possible that I will not stand for misogyny and homophobia.
I'm LGBTQ+ myself and I don't know where he falls yet, but I'd like to think he knows he can call me if he ever needs to talk about it or needs a safe person.
As a cis girl, I'm kinda scared about how men (And both women themselves) are conditioned to sexualize women, no matter how little the remarks are. I used to dress very tomboyish, but now I have warmed up to a more feminine style. You know, from Graphic tees, to flowery kimonos and cute black dresses and barrettes. I love flowers and traditional Japanese ukiyo-e art. It makes me feel like I am opening up a part of myself, but at the same time, hiding another part. I feel like I am coming into my own, but conforming at the same time. I have never been uncomfortable with being a girl, until I hear stories of men catcalling random women on the street, or advertisements with scantily clad women. Then I feel weird about myself. And then on the other side, women are saying that all men are pigs. But, that's not right. It never was right in the first place. We are human, and we all have emotions. Sometimes it feels like gender is just an exploit being thrown in our faces constantly in order to get us in some sort of unstable, ineffective order. I know that everyone's expecting to hear, "But I'm not like the other girls." But I feel like an alien in my own body now that I have grown up. I know it's not as huge as changing your gender, it's just a change of style and decor, yet it feels huge. I'm still a teen, and scared to get remarks about my body from boys once I head further into high school, although I have done nothing to 'earn' that. I know that everything is practically huge in puberty, but still. And I hate hearing, 'boys will be boys' to hand wave it all away. Besides that, I've no plan to change who I am, so what should I do?
(P.S, this is also a video about masculinity, but I kinda wanted to put my feelings down here. Sorry.)
This level of self awareness and saying sorry for just the possibility of causing a problem is what a person should be
Your comment is super well though out and introspective. I know the feeling you describe. Of feeling kinda inhabiting a stranger's body once you "develop" into a more dymorfic body. Not quite dysforia or but still having to perform your adsigned gender for real this time.
I definitely feel like an impostor when performing my gender lol. Not because im non binaty i just dont adhere to gender roles even if i try.
I think gender is mixed. Toxic attitudes towards women could be causing it or you could unironically be partially non binary. The feeling of gender expression helped make me realize that I'm cisgenderfluid.
A very smart man once told me, on a different topic from masculinity, "If someone else can define your identity for you, you don't have one." We were talking about being citizens of a country at the time, but the lesson is the same. Nobody can tell you how to 'Man' any more than someone can tell you how to 'Insert your nation here'. In other words, be the best you as hard as you can and if someone tells you that you are doing it wrong they clearly don't know you very well; that said, please don't be an insufferable ass while doing it, the world will thank you.
I feel like women also make it hard for men as well. Some women find them gay for just taking care of themself. My best friend is straight and recently I got him into skin care because he and me have the same kind of acne. So I allowed him to use some of my stuff. His girlfriend found out and she thought it was gay that he was taking care of his skin. He recently broke up with her because she kept trying to make him join “a more manly club”. He was pissed at her and came over my house so we sent her a photo of him wearing purple nail polish (she also hated his favorite color cause it was too girly) and flipping her off with me
That girl sounds exhausting
Froufrou Deluxe she really was.
Most woman I know as a gay guy would kill for a man who actually took care of themselves.
What a wierd, abusive and toxic lady his ex sounds like.
ecos889 As someone who is bisexual I also want a guy who can take care of himself and be himself. I don’t know why people like this do exist.
Yes. We all make it hard for one another. It's just this shitty cycle of toxicity that everyone's stuck in.
it's a bath BOMB of course guys love it
Bath grenades were a funny 'for men' product that didn't quite make the cut
@@DavidJBradley dammit it was supposed to be a joke
@@blorble4701 he also joked with you
@@DavidJBradley I don't care about gendered products, but ordnance-style bath additions would be awesome!
I will allways take a bath with those thinking "water in the hole"
My brother is knee high in toxic masculinity patterns and avoids communication for "soft" conversations. I'm so angry and sad about this :(
Maybe show him this video? and let him know that he can talk to you
All we have to do is advertise masks "for men" just like we do toothpaste, shampoo, and every other godsforsaken thing.
Underrated comment
Be the BURLY protector for YOUR grandma with our MASKS for MEN in ALL the dull neutral colors of BLACK and GREY maybe NAVY if you’re getting FRISKY
"Tactical" masks in camo patterns. I know a few lads who would get these...
You could call them “Mascs”
TW: misogyny and suicide
Two things. One: the harsher gender enforcement of men over women is probably due to men being the favoured gender, being a man is considered "better", thus there is no "logical" reason for a man to deviate and thus it's more subversive, where as a woman might "understandably" want to seek to be more like men, since patriarchy holds that men are better. I think this is pretty well seen in the differing response towards trans men and trans women. But it also reminds me of someone saying that heterosexuality is seen as a "purity" state, thus the obsession of heterosexuals finding and avoiding "gay" things. In this view, heterosexual isn't a label that best describes how one experiences attraction across the gender spectrum, but more about being in the in-group of heterosexuals and not in the out-group of minority-sexualities.
I think masculinity likewise functions as a purity state, by being the privileged gender men can have their status "revoked" in way women can't in a patriarchal binary gender system. This is not just about them losing privileges they are used to as men, as trans people can attest to, having your gender invalided by others is deeply harmful to one's identity and sense of self.
Second: I just wanna clarify, because I see lot of people misread this data, the problem shown by the Samaritans is specifically then men die by suicide at much higher rates than women: 70-80% of suicide deaths are of men. However, this data does not indicate rates of stress, mental illness, suicidal ideation, or even attempts. The data is specifically only looking at completed suicides, a perfectly valid metric to track, and obviously does point to a problem worth addressing and dealing with. Saving men's lives is worth talking about, it's worth investing time, money and resources in. Too often I see people make inference about the population's overall mental health and that is outside the scope of the data, and also unneeded. That so many men die of suicide is a problem that's worth addressing in and of itself.
As a mum of two boys, I've always done my best to just let my kids be themselves. My oldest was easy, he likes stereotypical boy things. My youngest? Well he loves all things sparkly and pretty. We aren't allowed to donate my stepdaughters' old clothes because my youngest loves wearing them. There are days where he demands to be called princess, to the point where it's a family nickname for him now. I don't care that he goes around in dresses all day and plays with MLP and unicorn figures in his dollhouse. What I want to avoid is people like the random man who glared at him a little over a year ago while I was waiting in line at a shop (he was sitting in the seat of a trolley, in a dark shirt and pants holding a pink MLP drink bottle), and the man sneered out "this is why boys grow up thinking they're girls" like letting my son be himself was the worst thing in the universe.
You are the source of my faith in humanity, so proud to share a world with you, keep it up
This should be more common.
Let kids be kids! They are just little people after all!
The (not so) all-knowing youtube algorithm just discovered that I'm ace and now it is letting me find my people
Hi my people
As a not-very-"masculine" asexual lad, finding this content in this channel (with this specific video being uploaded on my birthday) hits really deep, it's really nice to have the words to describe what I stand for. You made life a little easier for me, and for that I'm thankfull
(also I'm taking the video as a birthday gift)
Glad you finally got your present. Must have got held up with the quarantine
btw, you rocked those nails better than i ever could (i just dont rock colors other than black and purple)
Despite my fabulous nails and androgynous look (being confused for a girl is my #2 outside activity) I only survived masculinity because my sass in my deep voice sounds like "normal" sarcasm, and I have an ironclad courage to kill cockroaches with my bare hands makes me the "manliest man" in the room
Happy belated birthday!
@@unouni2548 Dankeschön (thanks)
@@talkingcowthatwasthereallalong hero! Also eww 🤮
As an AFAB who was seen as a tomboy: Tomboys aren't REALLY allowed to be themselves. There's a lot of resistance from other female peers, pressure to be feminine, and there's this weird invasion of what's feminine into what a tomboy is comfortable with. I'm speaking with my own experience as someone who grew up in conservative South USA and realized thier trans.
Tomboys are pressured to grow out of it at some point and really pressured into it. You're expected to compromise so you are feminine without being feminine. Here in TX, you're either a cowgirl with bedazzled longhorn purses, or a regular girl. If you're anywhere outside of that, it's a phase and you're not really allowed to express otherwise.
If you dress like a boy, you're still supposed to show off curves and a certain length of hair is forbidden.
Again, I could be inaccurate due to my non-cisness. Just wanted to add in my POV.
Absolutely. Another trans afab person here who was also seen as a tomboy- there's basically this line between "masculine girl" and "masculinity" that you aren't allowed to cross. You can wear pants in masculine colors, but they still have to be from the girl's section, and so forth. And you have to shed all that by high school at the latest. You're also forced to hover at the edge of both the boy and girl social circle. Although my childhood social isolation was mostly because I'm autistic, so I didn't feel the full brunt of the "not preforming femminity" part.
AFAB Transmasculine Butch here and I found the same thing to be true. It's actually funny how many people ASSUME that "tomboys" are so much more "tolerated" than "feminine" boys. I can still remember being a kid and being called a " dyke" and " lesbo" by the kids, and told "you'd be such a PRETTY girl if you'd just learn to dress more like a little GIRL" by the adults. Ugh I HATE the binary 😥😥
@@AbsolXGuardian EXACTLY THIS! And it's tough if you never see any adult similar to you.
I could go on for days on the autism thing. I never understood gender bc I never felt like it applied to me as a kid (never had the vocab for it until recently) and never divided ppl in the same way. I usually hung out with guys, tho, lol.
@@leedozier2897 Yyyeeesss. I got the same thing. At one point, for years, I forced myself to dress hyper feminine to try to convince myself I could conform. It was the most I ever disassociated with myself, but boy, everyone really loved my outfits.
I love this conversation. As context to how oblivious cis people can be. As a trans woman, i started to buy womens clothes, my mom asked "why can't you just wear your current [mens] clothes. Women wear t-shirts and jeans and shorts, etc." She couldn't comprehend that those things are wildly different between men and women. The sleeve length, the fit, the bottom, those little frills you don't think about. I find it fascinating to talk to transmen about this, because the things they despised from their clothing growing up, is everything i wanted from my clothing. The binary in clothing is actually pretty contrasting.
Yeah he lives in a free country... which means Costco is FREE to deny him service if he doesn't follow the business guidelines 😂
that's the beauty of it all! ❤✨
I think people should respond to "It's a free country" with "exactly, this is a private store and we're refusing to do business with you. Because it's a free country."
a really great first video to see from you! im a cis woman and despite that (and i generally feel comfortable with it) the fact i wasnt interested in things girls liked and didnt dress femininely really took a toll on me, especially since i didnt have a lot of things in common with boys either. i remember very clearly wondering, a few times, if i might have been a boy who was born without a penis. now i play around with my presentation, which im allowed to do as a cis woman, despite gentle pressure from peers to appear more feminine. and yet, all in all, despite all this, i cant shake off the feeling that masculinity must be an even smaller box to stay in. my younger brothers been talking a long time about wanting to dye his hair and paint his nails, but he only dared to do the second now that were in quarantine. he enjoys many of the movies and series i enjoy, as passionately as i do, but he never shares that enthusiasm with anyone else. and its clear to me how this need to be stoic and cool and indifferent is taking a toll on him -he is so excited about things, and he shares that excitement so briefly, and with such palpable anxiety of how he may be perceived. hes been bullied a lot for being perceived as gay. so really, as soon as boys are allowed to be themselves, like what they like, unabashedly, it'll be difficult to achieve true social gender equality.
I'm sure that as he gets older it'll be easier for your brother to be comfortable expressing himself more openly. Unfortunately it's just one of those things that takes a lot of time and work.
@Casi R. Hi! Cis woman here. Just want to say I actually had similar thoughts when I was younger too, that I was possibly a boy born without a penis simply bc of how I didn't fit into the traditional concept of femininity. I'm still interrogating my gender to this day, but it's now coming more from a place of healthy skepticism (questioning the gender binary) than it is from a place of anxiety resulting from me not meeting other ppl's expectations of womanhood/femininity. I agree with David that it gets easier with time and age (i'm 28 now and you start to give less of a fuck what other ppl think as you get older). I hope that your brother is eventually able to reach a point where he feels comfortable enough to publicly express himself exactly how he wishes to be seen. In the meantime, he has you in his corner and I'm sure your support means everything to him ❤
I wear very few dresses or skirts to school because I don’t want anyone pointing it out. With my family they can tell me I look nice and we can go to the movies where only strangers will see me. Honestly, my classmates’ reactions wouldn’t be very different. I would either be complimented or ignored, but I still have a weird complex about it. It’s to a point that wearing skirts makes me feel like a crossdresser even though I am a woman.
this made me cry omg
I felt the same way as you when I was a kid. I'm also a Cis woman and didn't really feel like either a girl nor boy as a kid, I just wanted to like what I liked and wear what I thought looked nice. For a long time those were clothes from the boys section. At that age I rather wanted to be a boy. There was also a time when I was much older where I started to question if I might be trans, but I feel really good about my body and who I am, so I guess that was never the problem. The problem is that people are tought that they are supposed to be a certain way.
I'm really okay with who I am now. Though I do hate it when people say negative things about men or women in general. Everyone is different and negative traits aren't a gender thing. Not every men is aggressive, not every woman is unreasonable.
My experience of masculinity is a bit odd. I am a cis woman, I have thought about my gender a lot and considered whether I may be otherwise but this is where I am right now. However I feel the push of toxic masculinity in many of the same ways as I understand men to do. It started when I hit puberty, this want to be, strong, reliable, cool. I went on a bushwalk with my dad and his coworkers and they called me little bear (as in bear grylls) and nothing could have been a bigger compliment. When I found out the length of my pointer vs my ring finger indicated I had high testosterone I was thrilled. But at the same time I was a 5'1 girl who couldn't partake in intense exercise due to asthma. Despite that I would often push myself into physical competition because I wanted to be better at it than the boys, to be acknowledged. I was proud of the hair on my arms and legs, I would compare it to boys I knew and felt joy that I had more. It has been a real journey learning to control my competitive nature and I still don't really know how to handle anger. Most people that knew me as a teen knew nothing of this, of course. It was not the struggle I was meant to have. A lot of this went unnoticed even by me until during my formal (prom) I saw myself in a dress and makeup, both things i usually don't wear, and felt this twist of discomfort that said 'that can't be me'. After that I have had to think a lot about masculinity and femininity in my life. I understand you might read that and say, "you sure you aren't trans?". But I really have no discomfort with my body as long as there is nothing I find is adding to my femininity, and I quite like my name.
It would have saved me so much gender misery if I had been born twenty or thirty years later, I too (a ~5'3" ciswoman) felt a lot of the pressures of of toxic masculinity, albeit differently. I inherently wasn't as girly as other girls, but I felt I had to reject the hyper girly stuff I did like because it would be used against me as a way to ridicule me for daring to like them. Because I was naturally and involuntarily very much a tomboy, and someone as super unfeminine as me was perceived as... to use a hyperbole, a traditional burly lumberjack with a dainty tea set of his own and a colorful bow in his hair. The hyperbole now in 2020 would be a source of genuine delight for many as a fuck preconceptions thing and true manliness because a real man doesn't give a shit about what he is "supposed" to be like, but back in the 90s and earlier was a joke at the expense of the lumberjack for how ludicrous he looked. Seeing so many NB, GNC, and normal cisgender people who refuse to be forced into tiny gender boxes these days is awesome, and has made it so much easier for me to feel more comfortable with myself.
I relate to this so much 😭😭😭😭
I completly relate, I've felt a discomfort with femininity sence puberty hit, I had a 'not like other girls' phase because I felt disgusted at the thought of me acting like a traditional girl, not because I didn't wanna BE a girl but because I didn't want to be a GIRL. Does that makes sence? Probably not. But what I mean by that is that I didn't want to be seen as diffrent because I was a girl. I wanted my male friends to see me as one of the boys not a girl that hangs with the boys, that's why everytime a boy asked me out I felt disgusted with myself for basicly being a girl that can be subjected to being seen as a romantic partner for boys.
this thread is so much my experience, I’m glad to know that there are people out there with have similar struggles and confusions
Man, I feel this. I used to take a lot of pride in being a tomboy and had a "not like other girls" phase. I hated the thought of being forced to act/behave a certain way, and so I would try to be the opposite of "girly". The only things I didn't do this with was my hair because I was angry that boys always were told they weren't allowed long hair, so I kept mine long, and being okay with washing my hands because not washing your hands is gross. However, in pretty much every other aspect, I would try to be more masculine to prove that girls can be strong too (I wish that this wasn't something I actually thought had to be proven as a kid...). It got to a point where I started to realize that by trying so hard to not be girly, I was putting myself in another box, and I started to have problems in early high school where I didn't understand how to properly manage my hygiene (aside from washing hands and regular showers) and basically any concept of "fashion". I realized that it was starting to get really toxic, and if I really want to be free from stereotypes, I should just do whatever I want. I've been trying to get myself to try more "feminine" things and not be ashamed if I'm interested in them, though, honestly, I'm still finding it a bit difficult to unlearn my perceptions of "feminine" as weak/bad. My big achievement of this week was buying a pair of shorts from the women's section and wearing them out jogging :)
I think its ok for women to do "manly" things because the underlying message is "It's ok to want to be a man but its not ok to want to be a woman" I think thats why trans men are less persecuted than trans women. The is a gross generalization but that's the average of what I see floating around the internet
Women in general are seen as more vulnerable.
However, some research I did for some videos I made regarding people who post comments to porno videos featuring trans people yielded interestingly opposite results. I found far more transphobia directed towards trans men than trans women, probably because trans women are wider known about and also womens' sexuality is way more commodified. People who searched for trans women seemed to know what they were getting in their entertainment whereas a lot of the trans men videos encountered transphobia from cis gay men. I don't know why, reading the titles of the videos should have made things clear. Anyway, the point was to find out what people think of trans people in a private, more intimate way.
@@joycelinlgbtq thats really interesting! I knew there was a lot of fetishizing of trans women in porn but I didn't know anything about trans men in porn! It's almost like they don't exist in porn. My guess would be that once trans men actors take of their clothes the "spell" is broken for cis men who watch porn, and they can only associate "having vulvas" as a feminine trait and they react poorly to a man with those traits. Or something like that.
@@blakelay it was far easier to find more videos of trans women than men. It kinda shows that trans chicks are ok to fuck and fetishize, but not to date or allow equal treatment, so neither gender got a "good end of the deal".
However, I searched out for interesting comments and also found plenty of positive feedback too. I remember one commenter in particular was really happy to see people like him represented in the mainstream porn industry. It has a long way to go but it's making steps in the right direction. Those two videos are on my YT channel if you're interested.
It's true that trans women, particularly twoc, are more at risk for violence. But trans men have some unique axes of oppression as well.
For example, because testosterone is so heavily regulated in my country, it can be pretty difficult to get even a trans-friendly doctor to allow a transmasculine patient's hormones to enter an actually healthy zone. Many doctors will basically cap a patient's T levels at a fraction of what the average cis guy's T levels will look like at their age.
Additionally, the fact of the type of reproductive organs we're born with are almost fetishized for their ability to carry a fetus, which gives us similar problems to many cis women in medicine.
As an allo, I would have felt incredibly uncomfortable around that manager. Creeps creep me out. I feel a bit uncomfortable talking about girls to begin with, but that sort of blatant oversexualization is just weird.
Yes, same here - also quite angry. Either I don't understand at all that thought-process or (with all my awkwardness) I'm never that insecure that I think this is the way to break an awkward silence, I just prefer the awkward silence.
I don't know why this reminded me of an experience i had a decade ago. I was working at a grocery store and one day while talking to my manager she said to me "do you realize you keep looking at my chest". I genuinely replied "no, oh my god, sorry. I'm just tired and my eyes go down. I don't mean to!" She replied "ok" and I think she knew that I honestly wasn't oogling her. Still, I totally understood why she said something! Creeps are out there, and I definitely looked like a creep in that scenario. Anyways, ya, call people out on that stuff!
@@JasonMcCarrell Well, I think I know why you thought of it.
You weren't even "looking", your eyes just "landed there".
A true man carries a big stick but speaks softly. Masculine strength isn't dominating those around you, it's protecting them, and enjoying the easier side of life doesn't detract from masculinity. You also don't have to be a man to show masculine strength, since everyone is on a spectrum anyway. Good vid.
Hehe "big stick",
sorry but I am British and I have to innuendo.
it’s so important for cis male voices to speak on these issues. When someone outside of that structure tries to talk about the problems with masculinity they become “wokescolds.”
"young girls who are often mistaken as boys because of their genitals" THAT is a rly nice way to put it actually,
True strength is to show weakness without fear. And to express yourself how you feel is right
Idk about this. Showing weakness ist brave. You dont need to not have fear.
@@zbxstiinb4229 I never said anything about bravery, it's about that you don't need to hide your weakness
Speaking of subversive masculinity, the popularity of Jojo's bizarre adventure is a godsend as it made a bunch of cishet like me appreciate "flamboyant masculinity" and even inching towards it because it'd be awesome if we could all dress and pose like in Jojo.
By all means, please do
That bit about contrapoints deserves some context, not in the least because people like to dogpile on her for things to a ridiculous extend these days.
What Natalie expresses in this part is her inside voice. Un-edited raw gut reaction. She does not present this as correct, she presents this as a shame-worthy response that she has for reasons of personal emotional stakes in the situation in order to explain the principle of why people react to things in a certain way. In this video that is taken completely out of context which will undoubtedly cause her harm. I do not support that. Please, if you quote people, do it in their proper context especially if you are calling out the opinion expressed.
Exactly, I hope this comment doesn't get lost in the sea of comments
@@pez4 Same, this is the sort of context that's most important. idk who said it, but it's related: "It's not your first thought that makes you a racist; it's your second, third, and forth". You just can't help your first initial reactions, even those that *do* believe in free will should be able to see this, so don't punish people about this. Saying these things publicly and explaining why they're wrong, that's doing much more good than to not say them and just pretend to be holier-than-thou.
Im with him until this, Perhaps he missed that point or it just didn’t check if it came off correctly in the video
Exactly.
Yeah she specifically says it in a way to describe her gut reaction that she knows is incorrect
As a non binary person who’s spent years questioning their gender and I still do not know what a “gender” is exactly, it’s just, something I experience, and something that sure as hell is difficult to grasp.
I feel a similar way
When you subvert gender roles you gain the ability to dramatically toss flowers with precision accuracy 🌹✨
I loved it xD
TUKSHIDOKAMEN-SAMA!
Fantastic performance as always David 💜
Thank you so much. Especially for being such a good Judith Butler.
Lola 💗 love ur channel!!
So much about masculinity making males reject the idea of being attracted to other men, I did not realise I was bi until some time identifying as NB, letting myself fell things that I was always afraid of due to toxic masculinity. I had a built up internal homophobia and transphobia, perhaps directly related to how in denial I was as a bi enby.
It's scary how similar the situation in 2020 is to 1918's Spanish flu. Man back then refused to wear masks until newspapers started saying that it's a masculine thing to do. We never change.
At 27:00 That's probably because beeing a man or a boy is subcosiously asumed to be better or higher in the hirachy than beeing a girl or woman. So a girl wanting to do masculine things is seen as someone wanting to raise themself to a higher lever, while a boy doing feminine things is seen as someone lowering themselves. Wich is equaly bad for everyone, just in different ways.
YES GET FLOWERS, GUYS & get flowers for guys!
I recently got my fiancé some roses because I was grocery shopping and picked some up since it was Veterans Day and he was out to dinner with a couple of his friends which he does every year for that day. I had placed them on his bedside table and when he got home it was the first thing he noticed. He first asked if they were for him then if they were from me and finally he leaned over to smell them to which he gleefully exclaimed, “NO WAY, THEY’RE REAL TOO!”
Which was the exact moment I realized men need to get flowers more often. It’s a shame it isn’t an already established and ubiquitous custom.
When you say it's upsetting that Natalie said that the trans woman screaming in anger is 'hyper Masculin' I can't help but be reminded of how black women are called masculine when expressing anger; or it reminds of the stereotype of the Angry Butch, something I've had to struggle with myself.
I agree that, in absolute, NO, anger is simply a male emotion, but we don't live in a vacuum and trans women do tend to try to hide their anger to pass as more feminine. I feel like boomer men are a really good example of this: most people know someone's dad who only expressing neutral content or plain anger, and seem to have nothing in between. It's the cliché you want to run away from when you want to be perceived as feminine.
I don't feel like what you're saying is contrary to what Natalie was perceiving in the trans woman in the video, I feel like your points actually mirror each other
I just want to point out that her statements were taken out of context. She’s describing a gut reaction that she had and then explaining why it’s wrong and not something she wants to believe. :)
My brother recently got his nails painted for the first time! He admitted he'd wanted to do it for awhile, but didn't because he was afraid of getting made fun of & because our parents wouldn't like it. I think part of why he finally went through with it was because a TH-camr we both watch, Crank Gameplays (Ethan) has been painting his nails and showing it in videos without it being a big deal. Ethan does a few "subversive" things like that, and I really admire him for showing the men and boys in his audience that it's totally normal and acceptable. I think that's one of the best things about the internet; even if something's deemed "too strange" for TV/movies, you can find representation for it online
I don’t know him but I am so overwhelmingly proud rn
This made me smile
Eef is the best boi
seeing this video and I remember a drawing I once saw on DeivantART, it was a father holding a shield against meteors and other bad stuff, protecting his child from this harm. On the other hand, he gave this child a flower, facing the child with such a caring expression.
that was a very good depiction of what masculinity could be.
The ideal man is Uncle Iroh
Ex-man enby here~ I really enjoyed this vid and especially like your use of Les Cage aux Folles as an example.
I will say though that I think the analysis of the Contrapoints clip mischaracterized her video a little. This may be carried over from opinions seen elsewhere, but her discussion on the Gamestop clip was not to demonize the woman, but to show how reacting to cringe content works in the minds of those it appeals to. She even points out the problems with this kind of behavior within the same quote you used about "manly dump-truck."
I think your feeling of frustration at having violence and aggressiveness associated with men is fair and valid and a good point, but Natalie's video is a poor example of what you're talking about.
Thank you for your well considered feedback. I absolutely don't believe it was her intent to come across as conflating masculinity and aggression, but it was how I (and several other people I know and trust on these subjects) read the situation.
To me it mostly came down to her choice of words/tone of delivery. It felt like she was putting this woman on blast to her almost 1 million subscribers in a way that didn't sit easily with me.
But, of course, I can only speak to my personal reaction to it. If you didn't feel that way about it then that's great. I think it's a good video otherwise.
@@DavidJBradley That's fair. As much as I've enjoyed most to all of her videos, her habit of building inside jokes over multiple videos and establishing sarcastic rhythms that she brings back with no clarification tends to get her into a lot of trouble. I don't blame you or anyone else for reading it that way.
I feel like amab trans and enby conversations about presentation are pretty commonly a fraught place to look for a wider discussion of masculinity, as everyone comes to the table with baggage, both those hoping to pass as feminine/androgynous and those frustrated as being expected to.
I know I've seen some trans men and afab enbies advocating for transmasc spaces to be examples of looking to more of the positive sides of masculinity. I'd love to see how those experiences would also play into this kind of discussion too!
All in all, I liked your video and I appreciate you hearing me out!
Tl dr;
Yeah, I get how people could read Contrapoints' tone differently seeing as she employs a lot of meaning in unclear ways to new viewers.
I think trans people/enbies sometimes bring in more baggage than expected when talking about masculinity (transfemme mostly negative and transmasc mostly positive). Hopefully that adds something to this subject
I think it's important to remember that Natalie is someone who uses her instinct as well as her intellect. The hyper-evolved human brain is saying "let's not judge or criticise too harshly. This woman might have been having a bad day. Passing as a woman is hard." But there is no denying that the lizard brain is there too, cringing at her behaviour, wishing she would stop, "OMG, what if this feeds into the negative stereotypes conservatives and TERFs have of us and their mindset grows?"
All that being said, being angry is not just a manly thing. I've seen way too many Karens to know that.
"Young girls who are mistakenly being called boys because of their genitals"
I've never heard wording like this before. I love it
One time I accidentally scratched my self and it kinda hurt and looked at it and rubbed it than my mon came in and said "you cant do that only girls do that" society just beats you down for showing anything feminine just wearing pink a simple color is feminine.
Anyone else seen that youtube video where the guy defends his masculinity by saying making bread is science and not baking?
That sort of stuff makes me sad. Enjoy your baking, knitting, skincare or whatever else, it's not laced with estrogen I promise.
Zoom! Coming hot from the EYEBALL ZONE and already loving the way you present yourself!
I too come from the Eyeball Zone. Subscribed for the horror videos I see you've made :D
Even with transfemmes and AMAB enbies, masculinity is hard to get rid of. It’s something you actively have to get rid of since you picked up on it your entire life.
the reference to Let’s Generalize About Men from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend was Perfect
Totally got distracted by the Mulan joke; "Make a Man Out of You" is so dang fun to sing.
I only found this channel today, and this is bloody awesome.
Same! :)
huh...
i´m trans (ftm) and whenever i need something i try to find a men´s version of it..my shampoo, soap, deodorant..all for men
even my shirts
the thing is..i want to be male but i want to be a kinda femme guy. i have these nice perfumes and i sometimes want to put on my black nail polish and just smell like flowers...but i fear that i would just lose my place and be seen as that weird chick
i´m not even on t or out yet
i just feel stuck
Those things might be easier after you feel better about other aspects of yourself. I struggled to forge my feminine identity for so long during the really formative years I rejected almost all masculinity within me - which was unhealthy and took me even longer to come to terms with. Now I wear the label non-binary with so much comfort I can play with gender stereotypes and expressions knowing that I'm honouring myself not cutting off aspects of my personality. Of course, you don't have to be NB to do this, but my case is just an example of taking time to accept what's going on inside and transferring that into external expression.
i'm also FtM and i can reassure you that the internal pressure to "be manly" does ease off once you're in a place in your life where you're finally comfortable with how you're living. i struggled with this too, thinking "oh i can't wear nail polish or make-up or women's T-shirts because people will see me as a girl if i do." but after years on T and getting top surgery and living full-time as a man for several years now, I've finally stopped worrying about that sort of thing. i'm lucky enough to grow good facial hair, so nobody would ever look at me and mistake me for a woman, so i can pencil in my eyebrows or wear a babydoll style T-shirt if I want to without feeling like i'm "failing" at masculinity. i've never even gotten weird comments about it. it's very liberating, honestly.
i can also tell you that the only difference between "for men" and "for women" when it comes to hygiene products is packaging and presentation. The only thing that actually makes any difference is scents. With shampoo and soap, just buy a neutral (unscented) type and nobody will ever know the difference. the only thing I'd recommend sticking to men's products for is deodorant, and that's because the scents there are _heavily_ gender-coded, and men's deodorant can go a long way toward making you feel more masculine. (we joke about all trans men using Old Spice but like. there's a reason, lmao.) that's not to say you shouldn't use nice perfumes and stuff, just use those in addition to it. (or, alternatively, just pick up a nice men's cologne you like the scent of)
i hope you've been able to make progress in your transition since you posted this. best of luck, brother!
i wish toxic masculinity wasn't perceived as it is, because it's simply a term describing the internal struggle that men have to go through.
I think the word you were looking for earlier in the video was "androcentric" instead of "phallocentric" but I got what you meant. Great video, thanks for making it! I'm a trans, agender man who deals with a /ton/ of internalized toxic masculinity and I related to a lot of what you said. It feels so good to find other men and masc folks who remind me that we can do better. We can decide what our masculinity is going to look like. I loved your word "rebranding" and I'm going to use that from now on. I'm needing to remind myself less and less that likes, hobbies, and just...human traits don't invalidate my gender, thankfully. And I agree...flowers and bath bombs are wonderful.
The things we could accomplish if we could just treat each other as equals and talk things out.
I was sent here by a slime and a bunch of eyeballs. Good video.
beautiful Rasputin moment
Finally.
I was just minding my own business listening to an intelligently written video essay and you reveal a SPECKLE PORTRAIT? Your taste in home decor is exquisite.
I'm so thankful to the workers standing up for the mask policy. Having those discussions is soooo exhausting.
Thanks for making this video. I've never felt that I've lived up to the masculine stereotype, in fact that it was not actually possible for me to do that. I felt completely isolated and excluded from the society of men. And while I still have no desire to paint my nails and don't really care for show tunes, I love the idea that my manliness is my own. Much love and solidarity. #InstaSub
Manliness is not your own. I'm being blunt but give me a chance. So you can definitely tell when a guy is masculine or not right? Well what makes it so?
Jack Donovan wrote in his book, "The Way of Men", that in a survival situation or a situation where the type of men that you want around you will have the 4 Tactical Virtues.
These are Strength, Courage, Mastery and Honour. The guy you called manly uses one or more of these tactical virtues and you would rather have him with you in a survival situation.
My wife and I have a host of redressing terms we use in jest but also to try and put that energy out into the universe.
I took her surname which is where "Maddox" comes from. You should have seen the ridiculousness that took place when I was changing my IDs and things. Absolute LOL. We even use terms like "Ovum Up" instead of "sack up/man up" and "stop being such a teste" instead of a "pussy" because, well, balls are fragile and the other SO isn't hahaha
I love the reverse examples, though all gonads are fragile and squishy :D As in testicles and ovaries. Uteruses are so impressive and fascinating, including the horrific ways they can malfunction (e.g. endo). I am damn glad I never will have to put mine to use.
...And I gotta say if my future wife or husband had Maddox as last name, I would be very into upgrading my last name too. Definitely a very nice choice to have!
@@Call-me-Al Ooh, gonad is even better! Inclusive and a more pleasing word to say. Teste or even testicle is a little awkward.
Fun fact! The word "pussy" in this context doesn't come from the slang term for the genitalia, but rather from the adjective "pussilanimous", meaning "timid", "cowardly" or "fainthearted".
Although I certainly cannot blame you for not knowing this, and the joke you came up with is hilarious xD
@@ArteArt39 thank for this! I did not know that!
@@MakerMaddox No problem! All hail Tumblr compilations xD
Jean-luc Picard is the manliest man and you can’t convince me otherwise
This is why it is so important to talk about both sides! Not only women suffer under the roles some people want to put upon them but men also get restricted by the standards society and media wants them to follow.
Also: I am so happy that you got around to painting your nails. Looks really good ^^!
This is a really excellent video on several fronts, but I particularly appreciated the way you explained the concept of "performative" - that's never been a concept that's quite clicked for me.
This video is what finally made me become confident to wear nail polish. I know it seems like a tiny thing but that has been huge for me personally and though I know you will probably never read this I just wanted to say thank you
the eyeballs have been summoned 👁️ 👁️
Pushing men into the hetero-allonormative box is so gross to me. I've been seeing so many videos on TH-cam and instagram of baby boys giggling at adult women and people commenting that he's flirting with the woman. This is creepy on so many levels. First that they are sexualising an actual baby which is made even worse by the fact that they are putting them in a sexual context with an adult.
Side note: I think you took Natalie out of context. She acknowledged that thinking of that woman as hypermasculine was policing and problematic. She was discussing how trans women are often forced to perform a hyperfeminine ideal in order to prove that they are "real" women and seeing a trans woman publicly not living up to that ideal was a source of cringe. Her message is quite similar to what you spoke about in this video. And if you watched her entire video the context becomes clear. She spends quite a bit of time calling out people who police trans people's performance.
people are too unaware with their own obsession with sex and romance that doesn’t need to be applied everywhere
furthermore, what is up with sexualizing children? but then calling an adult having sex with a teenager pedophilia, but then continuing to sexualize teenagers in media and ahhhhhhhhhhh
That post won't be really coherent, and kinda all over the place, sorry in advance.
There was that time at school where I had a wallet with a shiny dog pin on it (It was my mother's because I bought bread in the morning, and kept it with me), and the other kids started to mock me because it was a girl's wallet. I never thought wallet could have a gender before, since it's such a ridiculous claim, so that mostly left me dumbfounded. That is a memory that kept with me to this day as an example of how far we go to differentiate men and women in every aspect of life.
That's also the kind of thoughts I have every time I go buying some shoes. Since I have small feet for a man, I sometimes have to pick them at the women's stand (or the kids stand.), and the seller try really hard to give me the most neutral ones. I appreciate the attention, but the fact that even without wearing high heels, some shoes are considered feminine just always strike me as strange.
I try to laugh at this nowadays, since it's so nonsensical and absurd, but that makes growing up kinda hard. My first reaction was to completely reject anything traditionally masculine as inherently bad, and I had a hard time reconciling with that. I'm still working on it tbh.
That also meant finding male model was pretty hard (since boys can't show emotions.). I can identify with girls, but not having variety in male representation is still bad (You'd think that with so many cis male representation, it wouldn't be so hard, but so many of them are copy pasted, especially main characters.). That's kinda the paradox of being a cis man, actually. We can't really complain when every groups as it worth. But the representation is so narrow, that you may still find yourself unrepresented anyways (like the fact that in most popular representation, feminine man = gay, despite the two being unrelated.).
Anyway, everything is made so that you actually can be outside the norm without any conscious efforts on your part.
You might enjoy this: www.boredpanda.com/boys-like-girl-hero-damian-alexander/
Edit: it is about a guy who had an easier time connecting to girl characters as a kid, and his musings around it
I found your post enlightening. I don't know what to say, but thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts.
@@Call-me-Al Thanks for the link!
It made me think quite a bit.
Girls heroine show the kind of strength that speaks to me more.
It's not about defeating or dominating the other, but about connecting, understanding. Or emotional strength (Matilda used in the article, or the teacher in the same book are goid example actually)
Magical Girl,for example, are the kind of heroines everyone can learn from (my culture of the subject is still lacking honestly), but that will still be looked down at only for girls, and ridiculed.
And I am only starting to realize what I have missed, due to this sexist culture. (And since I am in the topic : watch Symphogear!)
@@PaintedBB Thank you for reading it!
I am really glad if it helped you on any way.
@@shytendeakatamanoir9740 thanks for the tip!
Around the beginning of the video, I noticed your nails and my first thought was that they looked amazing and I kinda wanna bring out my nailpolish now.
little do they know that there's nothing more attractive than being mindful of the health of others and protecting the elderly.
working at a nursing home is the manliest profession!
Compelled to come by the eyeball!! Great video!
8:30 "Because if you aren't necessarily trying to attract someone of a different gender, or if you don't identify with any one gender, then there's less call for you to perform your gender to a standard."
This was interesting! I'm ace myself and have often presented myself more androgenous than my peers, but I've never really put it into words like that. Thank you.
when the rose landed like that... I can't 😂😂 great video as always btw 💜
It was the first take, too. My life peaked in that moment.
Damn, so many haters (i.e. people who are offended that a man steps out of the stereotype, and shows him/herself to be whom he/she wants to be and it is none of anyone business but ones own).
I really enjoy the topics you talk about, it's a perspective I know nothing about, so it is refreshing!
(if you want more pronouns, please supplement the ones that are missing, ty).
I appreciate the thought, but my pronouns are still he/him. I'm a cis man, I just don't think that has to mean any one thing.
@@DavidJBradley I did understand that :) my comment is more in general towards some of the less savory comments I see pop up on vids like this.
Edit; on a bright note, your black beauty is a charmer! ( #blackcatsofinstagram
Just wanted to pop into comments and say I love your nail polish. Great color choice!
Cosco dude is chill AF and I'm lowkey turned on help
This made me so happy :D
Half of it is literally my bachelor dissertation (without the fairy tales, though). Back then, I couldn't find many people who had the same views on this as I do - whether due to time, moving countries, or realising I'm trans and finding my people. The idea that masculinity and men aren't inherently bad but toxic masculinity is, is so important. I'm so happy this video will reach many more people than my dissertation ever could ^^,
I think Natalie was talking more about the intended viewing of that angry woman at the store, which I would agree MOST people viewing that clip subconsciously view that woman as delusional and masculine. Which is undoubtedly a bad thing and I don’t believe those are Natalie’s own opinions at the moment. I agree with you either way tho. Great video, man :)
Yeah she’s describing her original gut reaction and then saying that it’s wrong and essentially just what society taught her. It’s not as bad in context.
It was so hard to get over the programing as a straight cis white man.
Tried to make me play team sports but well I was bullied by my whole team basically. I tried to play cricket but it turns out I was genuinely afraid of someone bowling a rock at me at high speed.
High school is a blur of hormones and rage. it wasn't until university I actually managed to have genuine friendships with women without trying to date them and only a few years in. Getting a girlfriend and having sex was like the point of social interaction for so long.
Mental healthwise I ended up being diagnosed with anxiety, although only after my brother died of cancer and I had a breakdown rather than the million other times when it was clearly apparent. It at least drove me to hyper competence rather than destroying my life ( I have a PhD)
It is so freeing to finally admit that I enthusiastically like cute things, like cat pictures and chibi drawings or similar. And that being no contradiction to me being highly competitive and forceful in the defence of the things I believe in. Oh and that I care a lot about my best friend from high school.
Although, my attempts at dating still go disastrously, despite all the work I have put into my emotional communication. There is that ping in the back of my head that says I am doing it all wrong somehow.
I am also a feminist and I find it hard to feel offended when someone complains about "MEN" even though I definitely identify as a man I don't identify with MEN the strawman stereotype. I have never thought I should say "not all men" because it has never felt like it applied to me (although perhaps earlier in my life it did)
I still have a gut reaction to call out broad, generalising language; just because it's targeted at men doesn't make it ok. Unfortunately in most instances they just end up getting mad or resentful, goes to show that barely anyone can handle being called problematic.
@@GameGod77 You have to make sure that when you talk about generalisations you do so separate from whatever it is that they are complaining about. Because otherwise, it sounds like you are dismissing/distracting their very real concerns they have (that they are over generalising about)
It might not be all men but its enough men or a bunch of really awful/loud men.
I had to have a giggle at BREAD FOR MEN while I'm baking a loaf of bread. This is very MASCULINE bread you see as it, er, uses STRONG wholemeal flour, and uh, I had to KNEAD IT THOROUGHLY for 10 minutes, which when you think about it basically just PUNCHING and definitely not a massage.
32:36 I think part of toxic masculinity is telling people that the conflicts and pressures they experience are something that should be addressed *_only_* within themselves. I think part of addressing toxic masculinity requires things like making a video discussing the toxic aspects of masculinity as a social construct, and I thank you so much for putting into words and describing so well those conflicts I experience myself.
Your nails look dope as hell
Masculinity needs a rebrand. Understatement of truth.
Masculinity as a concept has become a thing to manipulate and harm. Confidence in self is quite possibly the most 'masculine' thing in the world, and no one harping on what is and is not masculine seems to have it.
the guy who works for Costco is a big chad
"Which I think means you legally don't have to take anything I have to say about gender seriously" this is hilarious, but also just hearing it makes me trust your take on gender so much more
I not only paint my nails, but do so with vibrant colours! Right now their colour changing Neon yellow to dark blue, glow in the dark, with glitter!
That Costco scene. . . Dork thinks that stuff is his because he put it in a cart. LMAO When will people learn that stores are private property and can enforce a dress code of any type however they want. Of course his fragile ego didn't want to let him admit he could EVER be wrong. 🤔
"Bread... FOR MEEEN!"
I love this video and both essays on asexuality. I've been an LGBTQ+ ally for a few years now and it's really important to me to hear as much as I can about different identities from as many different representatives as I can. You're the only asexual content creator that I'm aware of at the moment and you helped me realize some things about ace identities as well as learn about ace experiences.
Thank you for your videos, here's to boosting user engagement for the algorithm so that more people can enjoy them.
So far I haven't seen many negative comments under this video and all the conversations taking place here are just wonderful. Now to actually watch this awesome video
Your statements about mixing traditional and subversive “masculinity” to find the way you wish to present yourself really resonate with me as a straight man who does some “feminine” things and faces questioning for it frequently. Thanks for that and subbed
Its definately more prominant with men but women really arent left alone when they are butch. People hating them about that though, isnt looking out for us cus ultimately femininity caters to masculinity. It always comes down to how a man views us and if we arent the gentle, motherly, submissive figure then we are disgusting.
This is a solid analysis of the modern masculine experience and I appreciate some of the bonus content (like discussing unnecessary surgery on intersex kids) and it's an incredibly important conversation to have. Good delivery, too. Solid pacing, clear explanations, and just enough silliness to keep things fun and engaging. BUT I do have a bit of a sociology nitpick.
The idea that childbearing leads to childcare leads to men going out and women staying home skirts a kind of dangerous biological determinism. Biological functions do influence social roles (reproduction and parenthood are kind of a big deal) but I think there is a lot more conscious choice than we might realize in how we decide the social meaning of those functions. That would explain why we see so many different social systems and understandings of gender throughout human history despite our shared biology.
The hunter/gatherer roles in cultures that rely on those jobs don't mean women stay home. In fact, gathering can be a more reliable food source than hunting. Besides, communal childcare means that once children are weaned their mothers can absolutely be freed up to do other tasks. From what I've read (and I welcome better information because I am not an expert at all) patriarchal societies became more common with the spread of agriculture, and a lot of farming is done by all genders together so it just doesn't fit the breadwinner/homemaker distinction.
I don't totally understand the process by which certain men shifted the social balance to prioritize their gender. I suspect once the trend had begun it was easier to to justify. It's honestly scary how quickly something can go from an idea to a trend to a rule to a tradition, but the upside is that since these "traditions" have such fragile historical grounding it should make them easier to uproot. The more of these tropes we can expose as propaganda that never represented most people's reality, the harder it will be for reactionaries to defend their validity. I mean they're still going to try, but they'll look real silly.
If you read this, thank you for hearing me out and I hope it was useful. If you didn't, yeah that's totally fair. Either way, keep up the good work!
Casually tossing the rose and landing it perfectly in the vase is peak masculinity.
I just found your channel and I love it. I'm ftm so I'm always lowkey analyzing whether I'm acting masculine enough to pass. so these discussions are always interesting to me.
Masks are cool as hell. You look so intimidating if you do it right
Ikr
True. Bane from Batman, and Sith Lords like Darth Malgus or Darth Malak from Star Wars (The Old Republic)