@@DavidJBradley I'm at least nominally straight and I've also never thought of Holmes as anything but asexual. Even when I had no knowledge of the concept.
Oh let me guess, you’re a johnlocker 🙄 Sherlock with irene is the best couple & they do have one son in one of the books: nero wolfe. Also asexuality does not mean no sex. It means our attraction is not based on sex & looks. Sherlock attracts to irene cuz she is intelligent like he is. He could not care less what she looks like. Same would go for john for people like you.
@@mystiquesword No, I have been reading Sherlock Holmes stories since I first started to read. Johnlock is only slightly more appealing than this Irene Adler thing. The BBC Sherlock has so many issues, and Irene Adler is just the last straw for me. It almost an in-name-only adaptation.
The original Irene Adler story is absolutely feminist (not talking about intentions here, I don't know about those. Death of the Author). She outsmarts a misogynist super genius and then goes about her life as she was planning to do anyway.
Ok, idea for new modern adaptation of alder. Have the plot, honestly it could remain very similar. I can see how maybe in the context of modern royalty or modern politics the kings(or someone else) and Adler's relationship as a theater star could bring about scrutiny or gossip that could disrupts the guy's potential engagement when it's within the sphere of politics, especially royalty. You might need to tweak a couple of things to make the controversy a bit more believable, but if things are tweaked, it's important that Irene should not be in the wrong for having that relationship and then desiring to not have the photos stolen from her, but you need to make sure that the king character isn't also so unlikable that you wonder why Holmes and Watson would agree to help him in the first place (the king can/should be a little unlikable though). Basically the rest of the plot can remain basically identical. maybe the photos are on a usb, and maybe the hidden compartment isn't the fireplace, or maybe it is, idk. But the rest can play out the same right down to sherlock holmes underestimating her due to sexism, because even if a modern sherlock holmes is a bit more open minded about men and women being equal, sexisim is still alive and well and it only takes a glance at how media treats certain female entertainers to understand why sherlock would think he could easily outsmart a female actress. Now here's the fun bit. You could either let that remain her only appearance, or post mystery, maybe Irene, having retired from acting like in the original story, could take up detective work herself. Let her be successful because of how well she understands people, a skill she picked up while studying characters as an actress. Let her be smart, let her be successful, and let one of her cases collide with one of sherlock's cases so they can but heads again. Let this happen multiple times, win some, lose some. Let her be a rivals on the same side of the law in contrast to the arch nemesis Moriarty is. Let sherlock's ego occasionally get the better of him. Then let them have a mystery where they have to work together because neither could solve it on their own. Let each show off their unique skills. Let there be a character arc where he finally let's go of his ego of being outwitted by her. Let sherlock stop calling her the woman and instead call her a friend.
@@selfcompassionate That‘s the myth of the west who imagines that progress automatically comes in a linear time. The world is more complicated than that. In reality, feminism comes from acting feminist. I like that idea of Irene Adlers story arch.
Exactly! And it just goes to show what a narrow definition of Feminism Hollywood writers have to go "Well, she's a woman who just wants to live her own life, not bothering anyone else, and chooses to marry a man she probably likes quite a lot. There isn't anything that could *possibly* be feminist about that. "I know what would make this better. Let's just sexualise the hell out of her instead and make her outsmart the hero with her sexuality rather than her wits. So much more empowering. You can't spell Feminism without T&A."
"Asexuals didn't exist back then, did they?" Me: _glances at dozens of famous philosophers over millennia going "This sex stuff doesn't really do anything for me."_
People misinterpreting Holmes' admiration for Irene Adler kind of plays into the, uh, aphobic trope of "maybe you haven't met the right person yet": Holmes obviously just never met his right person, but Adler, who is his intellectual equal, MUST be his right person because romantic love is the "ultimate feeling" and trumps all or something. (Also, she was getting married? Do these people care that she has a whole ass husband in the original? No? okay... I mean, since they forgot she was a lesbian in their own adaptation, what can you expect lol) Genuine, platonic admiration and platonic love feel so... undervalued, sometimes even within the wider queer community (not the aro/ace community, obviously
That is so true! Aphobia turned into a cinematic trope. As a comment I saw on Reddit put it: I love filmmakers looking at an entire sexuality and going "You know what this needs? Character development."
Moffat also wrote a lesbian who falls in love with his super-cool main character into his run on Doctor Who. It's almost as if he has no respect for *any* form of queerness...
It is kind of sad, amatonormativity, it ruins everything; relationships and how you view and experience them, yeah, but also how you enjoy any fictional media. Hell, despite unlearning as much as I could of amatonormativity once I realized that I'm aroallo, and being a lot more aware of it and seeing signs of it everywhere, I still sometimes struggle with it when it comes to consuming media. I romantically ship characters a lot, which in of itself is not bad nor amatonormative at all, but I sometimes accidentally still devalue platonic relations by believing that they *have* to be romantic; not a lot mind you, but it still happens with me. Like, for example, if I ship Legolas and Gimli from LoTR romantically together, that's fine, but if I think that pure platonic interpretations of their relationship, or familial interpretations or queerplatonic interpretations, are not on equal footing to the romantic interpretation (despite the fact that usually I see relationships that are platonic, familial, or queerplatonic as having more emotional value) then it's a problem. Luckily, I don't do this as much anymore, but I still catch myself doing it and I hate it.
Regarding Sherlock's "leaning in" to his asexuality / aromanticism (aromanticness? aromancity?): Before I learned that asexuality was a thing that applied to me, I just assumed I was straight, 'cause why wouldn't I be?^ And all through college, I thought my peers were choosing to enter sexual and romantic relationships, under the pressure of cultural norms. And, on the flip-side, I *thought* I was making the conscious choice not to -- simply because I found all the other things to do at college much more interesting. I can totally see Sherlock making the same assumptions, and concluding that sex and romance dims your wits ('cause look at how often those relationships fail, and how much hurt they cause when they do). ^(Also, looking back and noticing clues, realizing that my *parents* were each on the ace spectrum, too. And they were my role models for what "Straight" looked like; Mom proposed to Dad by saying: "If we got married, we could co-sign on a mortgage. And if we got a house, we could have CATS." Also, I'm an only child....).
I’m also aroace and I remember being about 10 and sitting in a circle with my best friends at the time talking about who our crushes were. At this point in my life, I thought a crush was someone you thought was aesthetically beautiful (what I know is aesthetic attraction) or liked as friend (what I know are squishes) and didn’t realise there were romantic and/or sexual connotations. I didn’t have any crushes but had already internalised that I was supposed to be straight because heteronormativity, so I just said I had a crush on my guy best friend. I didn’t like him in that way and eventually learned what a crush actually was, however one of my other friends kept teasing me about how I had a crush on him even after I told her I didn’t.
You made me remember the worst part of Sherlock. Season 4 Episode 2 "The Lying Detective" (yes it was written by Moffat because of course it was). Sherlock comes so so close to basically saying he's aromantic. He's like, "Romantic entanglements, while fulfilling for other people--" and John interrupts him. The arophobia. 😩😩😩
I also remember The Abominable Bride. They sit there in silence and Watson pesters him that 'clearly there had to be women, Holmes is a man, he must have urges'... ugh.
Only people who read the original stories will get this, but: Reading these stories as a kid is what caused me to ask my mom, "what does 'ejaculate' mean?" And she was like "um... in what context?" So I read the sentence I had just read it in out loud to her and she was like "OH. It means the same thing as 'exclaim.'" Only later did I realize what an awkward/humorous question that was and I don't know how she didn't burst out laughing hearing a child ask that LMAO
“And I’ve just upgraded my gender!” Me too, friend, me too. And I swear to God if I have to see one more person try to force people to ignore asexual/aromantic subtext in fiction I WILL riot.
different piece of fiction, but i saw someone say “saiki k isn’t ace, he has xray vision so he can’t see people properly and always sees naked bodies and therefore hasn’t felt attraction yet”. according to this person: all blind people, doctors, and people who work at nude beaches or whatever, cannot feel attraction. adds up.
As a neurodivergent aro ace, it makes perfect sense why Sherlock Holmes has been my hero since age 7. How you went to describe how Holmes turned his neurodivergence into his strength gave me a lot of courage; all my life I’ve been longing to be neurotypical and not be so different. Thank you; since I won’t ever be able to make them go away, I’ll learn to make them into my strengths!
Yeah Sherlock Holmes is very easy to get into for me, too. BBC's Sherlock programme last decade has so many flaws & I do love Hbomberguy's cannon firing it to the cleaners video. But wow does it just so easily when you're aro/ace & ND.
Holmes is an old friend of mine. He kept me company during my time as a lonely, asexual teen. I am also autistic, which made him even more relatable to me. Going to the Sherlock Holmes Museum made him feel all more real.
"Holmes is an old friend of mine" - yeah, me too "lonely, asexual teen" - same tho "also autistic" - ok now i'm convinced we're actually secretly the same person.
I have “come out” as asexual on my social media accounts every Valentines day… and people still think I am allosexual. (Not counting the non v days I remind ppl). There is def. A straight agenda, haha.
@@noahsolomon1550 „original christian context“? I‘m not so sure about that. Kat Blaque has an old video about the history of valentine‘s day and it wasn‘t about christianity …
Since most people are allo, it's kinda given that they assume a person is allo. It is however incredible rude to dismiss a person's sexuality who has already stated they're aro/ace.
hahaha, yes, ace and queercoded detectives are definitely a trope! although honestly a lot of them are just following on from holmes. personally i think hercule poirot's ace/queercoding is really just a function of his "french coding" though, lmao (yes, i know he's belgian but in terms of "coding" he's absolutely french lol)
There's a wonderful passage in David Suchet's memoir "Poirot and Me" where he specifically talks about Poirot experiencing romantic attraction, but not sexual attraction. He even sometimes wishes he had gotten married, but he knows that very few women in the world would understand or want to put up with him. I'm aroace myself, but it was so *nice* to hear someone understanding the distinction and articulating that kind of... loneliness you can feel, not because you *want* that kind of relationship, but because you just don't want to feel left out. I think the fact that Holmes and Poirot are two of my favorite fictional characters ever should've clued me into my own asexuality sooner.
Yes, and Miss Marple. She canonically never ended up having long-term relationship and seems just content living by herself, doing her thing. You can say whatever, for me she's aroace 😁
So many reasons this video is awesome: 1. Sherlock Hound. 2. Your nails. 3. The whole dang subject of Holmes as aro ace. 4. Watson quacking like a duck.
That was sherlock bones, sherlock hound is a completely unrelated manga about the great detective being Reincarnated as a dog. No I'm not making this up.
Ok, nice reference with the cactus brooch! I've had to use that analogy once on a straight male who took my disinterest in his self-described "legendary" bedroom skills VERY personally. Unless said bedroom skills are relegated to speed-folding laundry and making perfect mitered hospital corners on a bedspread, I'd rather attempt to bathe enraged cats while blindfolded.
Funny story, I grew up homeschooled and removed from even TV. When I read Sherlock Holmes I “made up” a word to describe him. I had NEVER seen this word used to describe anything other than scientific reproduction, but I figured since “homo” meant “same”, “hetero” meant “opposite”, and “sexual” in this context referring to the sexual attraction, I announced to my family that Sherlock Holmes was Asexual. I got mocked very thoroughly for this, but I maintained my opinion and my “new word”. Only after I joined tumblr a few years later did I see this word actually had already been coined. I was very happy to see it though.
"Your regular reminder that the straights are not ok". *sigh* How well I know it. "I only just upgraded my gender. It came with a skirt!" I noticed, I spent the first 1.5 minutes being distracted by your outfit. I love it, as always. Such a snappy dresser. Recently I heard a complaint about the way Henry Cavill portrays Sherlock in "Enola Holmes" because they say he plays him with too much emotion. (A few small smiles, and a voiced concern for Enola's safety) are directed toward his little sister. One may seem emotionless but still have concern for the safety of a younger sibling. Ok, that was only tangentially related, since the whole thing is basically a fanfiction, but I never got the impression that Holmes was truly emotionless, just that he *seemed* that way, and didn't Watson make that observation toward the beginning of their relationship? Surely he would not have continued to hang around, so closely in fact, to someone who was truly only the less desirable things he observed about the man. I definitely see the ace (possibly aro), queer, likely nd version of the man, But the idea that that makes him *actually* emotionless seems silly, he just doesn't react the way a straight, allo, hetero, neurotypical man does. So he seems alien to them. Sorry about my rant.
The dumbest thing about that particular complaint of "Enola Holmes" is that apparently, according to the Conan Doyle estate, the stories where Holmes shows genuine emotion/is kind to women/is openly fond of Watson/likes dogs/etc... are still under copyright. Which is utterly baffling to me because even in the pre-"Final Problem" stories, Holmes *does* show a lot of emotion and *is* capable of compassion (and hell, he has Toby the dog in "The Sign of Four"!). Even in their first story together, Watson observes that Holmes appreciates and is visibly flattered by his praise. It feels like the estate is enforcing a version of the character that just doesn't match the text of the actual stories. :/
Another respect in which the Moffat version of Sherlock really fucked up. In the original, Watson stays with Holmes because he knows Holmes really does value and appreciate it, even if he rarely shows it. He is, at the very least, a good friend. How the BBC Sherlock treats Watson is borderline abusive most times, comparing him to an inanimate object, constantly belittling him and calling him an idiot for not being as smart as him, showing very little care for his needs, his comfort or interest in his life. Moffat doesn't just fail to understand queer relationships. He fails to understand how basic human freindships work.
Literally when this video was teased I went "I bet there will be a section where they beat BBC with a steel chair" and I'm so glad I was right I wrote a whole essay with significant focus on Moffat's terrible takes
This is my favourite and only take, thank you! With regards to Irene in BBC’s Sherlock, I think later season’s Molly Hooper has become a more faithful adaption of ‘the Woman’ than Irene. Moffat and Gatiss once said that their rule with Molly is that in conversations with Sherlock “she always wins”. She gets the last word, the upper hand, the final point. Their relationship is not one of love but respect (on Sherlock’s side at least), and a recognition that women can be strong, intelligent and useful. Why they had do insist Molly was in love with him, I’ll never know. But without it she makes all the points in the adaption that Irene made in the original, particularly that Holmes can be capable of misjudging a woman, learning from it, and coming to respect her, without her having to take her clothes off or him having to be attracted to her.
It was while reading a Sherlock Holmes fanfiction that I learned what asexuality was. I'd heard of it once before and the definition given then was something like combining aromanticism and sex repulsed asexuality, and that isn't me. The fanfiction gave me a different view of asexuality where people can have relationships and are aware if someone is attractive, but just not want it for themselves. I'm very grateful to it. If not for that fanfic I might still just be thinking I'm "broken".
yeah same. kinda makes me mad when moftiss said sherlock being gay is not the story they wanted to tell cause that's clearly what they have told us. but yeah in the BBC version the gay is showing but in the books Sherlock doesn't really show love for anyone except for watson so him being aroace and having platonic love for watson seems like the most reasonable thing
@@justsomerandomname2067 I recommend you watch Tjlc explained video 'sherlock is gay', there is a lot of content there but also I think because John is his pressure point and the way he looks at him and the things he had done for that man are definitely not very straight
@@justsomerandomname2067 I really see him as disastrously attracted to John (mainly because of fanmade edits :D). I interpret his lack of understanding for romance and thinking of sexual attraction as much more reasonable as being alloaro. Also i kind of project myself onto one of my first kins ;D
Umm not sure how the books would make sherlock aro ace when he is in fact hetro-romantic asexual in the books, seeing as how he & irene have one son: nero wolf. Also, on film, irene is almost always shown as someone into bdsm & according to the aven website, a lot of aces tend to gravitate towards that. A very common but wrong misconception about asexuality is that we cant love & cant have sex. Neither is true. We love just fine & allow sex in certain situations we are comfortable with. (Also bdsm is not necessarily penetrative sex & virgins can do it.) It is how we attract that makes us ace. We wont jump on you cuz you are hot. We dont see or care about hotness. We do see beauty & acknowledge it but it wont make us want you. We attract to intellect, not physical appearance which is exactly what happens with sherlock & irene.
Thank you so much for this. I agree with everything, Sherlock is aroace and in a QPR with Watson, and Irene Adler has been mishandled in a lot of adaptations. I love queer reading of Sherlock Holmes and I love your channel. Also yay skirt go twirl One year later edit: ok I still love the aroace reading of Sherlock, but after reading this blog post/article I realized there’s also a lot of gay references in the books that I missed. They’re very subtle and specific to the Victorian era, but it’s stuff like mentioning that they go to bathhouses aka gay sex buildings, and that they left London in 1895 which is when a lot of gay people also left due to the Oscar Wilde trial.
Yes Irene is Moriarty in Elementary, and has *amazing* sexual enemy's energy with Watson. I really do recommend it (Yes I was tripping over myself to not use a term from a certain fictional webcomic because boy we don't have a common term for that type of relationship despite how many examples I can point to it in fiction.) For a great example of an Irene who doesn't really go texturally romantic with Holmes, I recommended the anime Moriarty the Patriot. It has Moriarty as the central character and as a morally grey Robin Hood basically who goes after the criminal rich, to often lethal levels.
yes Elementary is great! I was going to recommend it as well as moriarty the patriot but not the anime bc the pacing didn't worked for me plus I heard they cutted a lot of it, so I'll recomend the manga, especially bc of what they do with Irene as well, not just the not romantic thing, but the further queering of them.
I *vastly* prefered _Elementary_ over _Sherlock_ (fighting words on the internet, I know!) And as much as I totally see Holmes as aro(ace) in my head I absolutely LOVED what they did with Irene/Moriarty in Elementary! Maybe I'm naive, but the reveal sticks with me as one of the most genuinely surprising TV moments. It's an amazing payoff and played to perfection. And her storylines were so complex - she is *very* much not a flimsy excuse for a sex object for Sherlock, she's a true mastermind, totally on her own level, and yeah, the chemistry with Watson is great. It's not just about Sherlock. Actually, Lucy Liu as Watson is just amazing, full stop. I think she might be the only version of Watson that isn't just a doormat/target for Sherlock's assholery. They are true equals. Can you even imagine her meeting up with BBC Sherlock? He is a stunted brat in comparison. (Actually I kinda want to see that now... I think she'd be slamming the door on him in like five minutes!)
It makes me so happy that you leaned heavily on Granada Holmes. I watched the whole series this past summer and I can't tell you how instantly and deeply I made a connection with Jeremy Brett's portrayal. Like you said, the character may not have been explicitly written aroace but my heart knows it to be so.
I’ve been obsessed with Sherlock Holmes for years before realising I was aroace - I haven’t read the stories in aeons, but this video was so good I just might read a few again (and by a few, i do mean The three Garridebs)
The BBC adaption of Sherlock will always have a special place in my heart because I was fifteen when I first watched it and became obsessed with it. I’m 21 now and I identify as aroace, an identity I didn’t even know existed when I was fifteen cos it’s NEVER talked about in mainstream culture. It makes me so upset to see how aphobic and homophobic BBC Sherlock is with the knowledge I have now. I always liked fanfiction more than the actual show anyway, though I never shipped Holmes and Watson romantically/sexually as I was a little closeted aroace and I decided that just didn’t fit with how I saw Holmes. I DEFINITELY think Holmes and Watson are in a QPR cos that just sits so well with me and it makes my queer heart happy. And to the people who ship Holmes with a woman????? Wtf is wrong with you??
Bipolar could definitely fit. Though I also see the ND stuff, with him doing the cocaine to keep his mind from eating itself out of boredom. As someone with ADHD myself, I definitely get that.
correction the author didn't bring back Homes because of public outcry but because he got a letter from his mom, telling him she liked the stories and would like to read new ones
I'm so glad I have a reclining desk chair because I was leaning back in my chair in shock at the *ridiculouslness* and *audacity* that the hets had in trying to force this idea that Holmes was a straight man. If they stretched any farther, I think they might pull a muscle!! I'm also so sick of asexual characters in media being depicted as "uninteresting." Like we don't deserve validation because our lack of sexual attraction bores them. It's so disgustingly aphobic and really shows that any queer relationships they even imply are all for attracting the viewers' interest and with zero regard for any people they may hurt. . I personally imagine him to be demi-homoromantic asexual (though I also ADORE the interpretation of them being queer-platonic partners). I genuinely cannot see how there is any room for plausible deniability that Holmes is queer and on the ace spectrum considering the fact that the only person that Holmes seems to show any desire and affection for is Watson and his disinterest and aversion towards women is explicitly spelled out. Also, the timing on this is wonderful. You mentioned how basically everyone has at least one interprertation of Holmes out there that they love. For me, it was the Ace Attorney games that came out this summer. Seeing his interpretation in the games as well as their unique ways of interpreting characters like Inspectors Lestrade & Gregson. And don't get me started on how they portrayed Watson! It was my favorite plot twist in the entire game. Not to mention, the entire series is undeniably queer-coded and attracts queer audiences, so in both canon and fanfiction, I almost never encounter forced heterosexuality. It's actually quite noteworthy when I do because it's so rare. I was honestly disgusted and stunned by your section on Irene Adler. My only exposure to her was in a fanfic where Irene was borderline *disgusted* by Holmes for comedic effect and showed the most affection and respect towards men who respected her independence and did not try to force gender roles or submissiveness onto her. . Also, congrats on aquiring a new gender! You look KILLER in that skirt!
I'm a-spec and autistic, and Holmes was my main role-model as a kid. I even took up violin because that was what Holmes played. Then, the Guy Ritchie films came out and I hated them for what they did with Irene Adler (although Jared Harris as Moriarty is exquisite casting). Then, Sherlock which promised so well at the beginning of the first episode but started to fall apart (in my opinion) when Sherlock monologues about "who hunts in a crowd?" and doesn't come up with cabbie.
Thank you very much for making this, and thank you especially for the long, confused silence at the thought of people shipping Sherlock and Irene. I died laughing for the entire fifteen seconds. I highly recommend watching Elementary though because it actually contains a QPR, even though it isn't referred to as that. Joan and Sherlock often describe themselves as two people who love each other, but there's not a hint of romance in their relationship, and they are definitely the most important people in each other's lives
recently started reading every sherlock holmes novel and short story at the end of june and i'm almost finished, and i'm so happy to see such a similar opinion to my own! it really helps me as a fellow aspec person feel a lot less alone in my reading of holmes' character :))
THANK YOU THANK YOU !! First because I'm genuinely tired of Irene Adler's portrayal in modern media, but also because you put words on how I see Holmes and Watson. See, through movies and series I saw Holmes as gay (still do in some cases), but when I read the books I had a decisively different feel. And I was *uncomfortable* with the feel, but thanks to you and other ace creators, I was eventually able to understand that my discomfort was my allo butt struggling to understand asexuality, aromanticism and QPR (which I finally GOT with *this* video) and thus taking a mental shorcut and thinking "but if no sex or romantic love, then this human unfeeling and thus NOT human, no ?????" And I *knew* on a basic level that couldn't be right, but also the amatonormativity is so strong I couldn't imagine anything else so I was just left to mentally wriggle uncomfortably. You got NO idea how *relieved* I am from finally understanding QPR and how it relates to Holmes and Watson in the books. Because that *is* how I interpret them but I didn't know it was even a thing, let alone how to call it, argh !! Sorry for the enthousiasm but it really lifts a weight off my soul, I swear. I'll just add that outside of my galaxy brain moment, this was a delightful video as always and that you look uber cute in that skirt. It really warms my heart to see you living your best life 💛💌💜🖤
Loving the upgraded gender :) EDIT: that was AMAZING OMG. You really know how to write compelling scripts! Usually I speed up videos because I am Extremely Impatient, but I don’t think I ever have for yours (and I certainly didn’t for this one, and it’s 42 mins long). There were some parts where I genuinely burst out laughing such as your jab at Irene/Sherlock at the beginning and your EXTREMELY VALID TAKE ON BILL AND TED THAT I SOMEHOW NEVER NOTICED BEFORE BUT I ABSOLUTELY LOVE, and other points where I sat there grinning because everything made so much sense and also discussion of QPR Sherlock/Watson makes me very happy. I’m going to go away and finally reread the books again, plus see if I can get my hands on Granada Holmes and the Rathbone-Bruce adaptation you mentioned! Thanks for another awesome video!
I've always been a hardcore fan of Sherlock Holmes and the stories ever since I came to know about it and read them back in my "sensitive" years, and at that time I didn't even know the term asexual when I've been. It took me a long time to realize he was implied aro-ace once I dug deep into random forums. One thing that many others who counter-argue this interpretation is that the story itself focuses on the mystery and adventure so the author kept it that way. However, thinking back on it, it made all the more sense to me that he's aro-ace, imo perhaps due to my biasness as a fellow ace and how I deeply connect with the character. Those who are interested to see more adaptation to Sherlock Holmes stories, I recommend "Moriarty the Patriot," which is another anime adaptation that focuses on the mastermind professor. I thought the character of Irene Adler there gives justice to the canon Irene Adler, who literally portrays a strong independent woman and feminist in her own way.
The BBC Sherlock will always be my favorite. I enjoyed the poke at John's sexuality at first before i realized what queer bating was. I just wanted to point out something from my perspective. I never saw Irene Adler as a lover for Sherlock. I saw him more intrigued in her for her brain and her proclivity to kink. I think Sherlock would be interested in experimenting with kink as he is portrayed as a personality that seeks out the next high or adrenaline rush. I'm that aspect i always saw her as a possible play partner, never in a sexual context.
I think your kink theory fits very well with the Elementary series version of Holmes. He has sexual partners occasionally on that series, but it's clear it's nothing more than an activity to either release energy or to explore a theory. Other than his relationship with Moriarty, he doesn't really express romantic attraction.
I love your outfit! It's so pretty! I have to agree with some of the other commenters that I've only ever seen Holmes as ace aro. I remember as a child getting really frustrated when he was characterized as straight or gay. I was like, "Why are people shipping him with Irene or Watson? They're obviously just good friends! Why do they have to be in love with each other?" Looking back, I probably should've realized that I'm ace aro a lot sooner. Anyway, my tangents aside, thanks for another great video. I look forward to the next one.
Haha, I sympathise with you as a grayro ace... I kept seeing people ship him and I got so annoyed, and I kept thinking 'He's just not interested, stop forcing him to be in a relationship! He already said he liked his work more! I like Holmes and Watson (and Irene) as friends, it's so much more complex and interesting!' It got to the point when I started wondering if I had subconscious homophobia because I didn't like the Watson ship (I know, a bit of a jump in logic) but then I didn't like him with anyone else either :p
24:05 I remember reading the story she was in and idk if Sherlock had specific attractions to her or what but he was def very intrigued by her. As he should be. She’s absolutely fascinating
I'd like to put in that my favorite ace in any media ever is based on Sherlock. Grand Admiral Thrawn of Star Wars fame is an absolute asexual king. The Blue Boy. The Man. The Ace Legend.
When I first read Sherlock Homes, way back in the day, one of the things I really liked was the lack of a love interest for him. I adored the fact it focused on whatever the heck Holmes and Watson had going on. I wanted more stories like that and was always disappointed when I couldn't find them. It took a long time to figure out Holmes and I weren't broken.
My dad's a huge Sherlockian, so I grew up with Holmes. And I just always knew we were the same. Even when I had no concept of what it really was. So Holmes was always my touchstone as I figured myself out, as Ace and ND.
Okay so I came here because one of my friends said "This is literally you, like this person is your alternate self". I came here without much thought. I'm only 4 minutes in and I'm seriously considering if I have a lost twin. This is literally me on a daily basis 🤣 The silence from 4:03 to 4:13 I'm WHEEZING
This was an absolute delightful video essay to watch. I totally agree on Sherlock being aroace. Arya from GoT as well. They are a masc non-binary aroace as far as I'm concerned.
3:51 Sherlock being acearo makes so much sense. Obvi Watson is very much in love with him too. Just reading some actual excerpts from the series and idek how people don’t see it.
this is absolutely amazing! i've always seen him like this as a demi-aroace myself. also the dramatic pause at the mention of Sherlock x Irene is the greatest thing! i would also like to point out the in BBC Sherlock, he never fell for Irene, he was faking it.
Ive never been a massive Holmes nerd, but from all the media I have consumed about Sherlock, I always related strongly in this way. A huge part of my fears about my future involve who I will live with, even get married to, but it's hard finding someone else who wants that when the relationship isn't sexual or even very romantic at times.
9:26 "But it's not as if you can actively stop yourself from feeling attracted to people through sheer willpower alone." Hearing this suddenly made me remember that before I found out I was aromantic, I would often think to myself, "Huh, I guess I'm not having crushes because I just don't want to." 💀 But I absolutely love the reading of Sherlock being an aplspec aroace man who's in a QPR with his straight bestie.
Just found you recently and feel very seen here. I grew up in the 60’s and was role policed and self policed most of my life. I always felt this regarding Holmes being an avid reader but had no way to name it. Thanks for this channel and for these conversations ✌️🌈!
The only information I knew about Sherlock Holmes before this video was a few animated adaptations and the obsessive behavior of Sherlock shippers. This was such a great analysis of his character and I’m glad to learn more about him and peoples interpretations of him and the stories he’s in.
This is such a good video!! It’s nice to see I’m not the only one who read the books this way. As an aro ace neurodivergient person, Sherlock Holmes is one of the few characters I feel accurately represents me.
As in a-romantic it is interesting to see characters being interpreted either as a-romantic or asexual. Through media studies, I'm aware of slash & fem-slash fan fiction, I'm hoping to see more representation of a-romanticism in popular culture.
Hes my neurodiverse and ace icon. Glad he gives me the confindence I need! I wish more adaptations nowadays would take the ace part and run with it and make it even better.
My favourite Holmes adaptation by far is the Bert Coules radio series. It holds the distinction of being the only series in which every story was performed by the same Holmes and Watson actors. There are loads of really great domestic scenes between the two of them, Irene Adler is done perfectly (including actually giving her an American accent), and I love what they did with the framing of The Lion's Mane.
Realizing that this could be a reason why I loved Sherlock Holmes as a kid. While my friends were getting their first crushes and what not I was just vibing reading and relating to Holmes 😂
So totally relate to been both autistic and ace, also ADHD. Am only just learning to accept I might be gender fluid too. Some days I am perfectly fine been female, most days I have no real gender at all and once in blue moon I feel decidedly masculine. The more comfortable I get with this, the more often I feel this way.
The description of QPRs in this video alone is enough for me to send it to someone with whom we have a relationship that is depending on alter romantic, alterous, or platonic.
great video! fueled my resentment of bbc Sherlock once more. also i had never thought of his hyperfocus on his work as neurodivergent but it makes so much sense! i don't know why some people (not you!) create a conflict between Sherlock as aro/ace or gay as if he couldn't be both 🤔 like... i am lol
Fascinating! You've done it again. I'll be honest and vulnerable, I have the HARDEST TIME trying to view the world through an ace (or aro) lens. I want to, but it's like...so hard to undo that particular bit of social programming as a sexual (and romantic) person. I love and support ace people and I appreciate your content as it helps me get that little bit closer to actually hopefully understanding! Also, full on, a QPR sounds MAGICALLY wonderful to me. I'd love to be in a QPR.
Wait, what? I don't want to, by any means, to diminish the importance of this fantastic video essay. But people really need to tell them that Holmes is asexual? You only need to read the canon stories, and it will be PRETTY clear. In any case, thank you for the video, I've really enjoyed it.
I'm SOOOOOO exited for this video, cuz a huge Sherlock Holmes fan!!!! Edit: I love both the Sherlock Holmes outfit and the outfit with the skirt :D Edit: I really enjoyed this video! Just amazing! 😍😍😍😍
Oh I so agree with you when it comes to Irene Adler's treatment in adaptations. I feel the same way about those as I do about what My Fair Lady DID to Pygmalion. Fucking. Livid.
Thanks for pointing out what I've always said. I states pretty explicitly in the text that Holmes is not interested in romantic relationships at all. Like I'm not even ace or aro but still, taking that representation away in adaptations bothers me. Also, yeah, the Granada version of Holmes with Jeremy Brett is THE definitive adaptation of the series. I grew up watching those with my dad I'm really happy to see people recognizing how well done they are.
I love the Sherlock Holmes stories. I have read them, heard the audio dramatisations, and seen many adaptations (love the Jeremy Brett ones the most). One of the reasons I like it so much might be that he does seem very Ace. And I saw myself in that as a kid, without identifying why. Also, many of the stories opens with a sensible young woman who has collected good, thorough data that is relayed in a calm and Scientific manner, perfect for Holmes' skills, and they actively appreciate her for it. It always made me think of how I would collect data and present it, in case I needed their help. I am now a Scientist! The Solitary Cyclist is a particularly good example.
Talking about Moffat, as a kid i always read the Doctor as ace in the original series and though well i didn't have the language to describe it, it always felt out of character when Davies and Moffat tried to put romance into Doctor Who.
I find the "thing" between Holmes and Adler in the Sherlock show enormously intriguing because the mutual attraction or what one should call it, goes against character for both of them. This may say more about me, I freely admit that, but bear with me. I see it as both of them seeing something akin tothemselves in each other, but also something truly heretofore unknown. Alien even. Maybe I'm projecting here. I'm all but convinced that I've grown from being in the bottom end of a "average" sex drive in my youth, to now having been volontarily without physical intimacy for over four years with no issues about it whatsoever.
Honestly I think there are readings of these two that could be absolutely fascinating in terms of exploring other forms of attraction beyond romantic and sexual. Do I think the writers intended it this way? Nope. Do I care? Nope, not really. The author is dead, the text can speak for itself, so why the hell not put aside our own assumptions of comp-het and dig deeper on what a mutual fascination between an aroace man and a lesbian woman might be without questioning either of their orientations.
i always loved elementarys take on sherlock (tho id argue hes more represented as aromantic rather than asexual in that adaptation) he and joan develop a very clear domestic partnership with no romantic feelings for one another but rather a deep closeness and connection between the two the story never once presents the relationship in a romantic light but never presents it as “less than” (id argue their platonic relationship is more often presented as taking precedent over romantic ones!) they are the closest ive seen to a true portrayal of a qpr in mainstream media
I never thought about Sherlock as anything but ace, I’m kinda surprised others couldn’t.
Well this is because you aren't straight
@@DavidJBradley This is also why I'm cool as hell.
Scientifically, yes
@@DavidJBradley I'm at least nominally straight and I've also never thought of Holmes as anything but asexual. Even when I had no knowledge of the concept.
@@thehorriblebright - I’m nominally straight or asexual and never thought of Sherlock as a sex partner in a relationship.
I never did like the stories shipping Sherlock with Irene Adler. They just never sat well with me.
Because they are bad
@@DavidJBradley and how!
Btw, the obligatory dress twirl was excellent
Oh let me guess, you’re a johnlocker 🙄
Sherlock with irene is the best couple & they do have one son in one of the books: nero wolfe.
Also asexuality does not mean no sex. It means our attraction is not based on sex & looks. Sherlock attracts to irene cuz she is intelligent like he is. He could not care less what she looks like.
Same would go for john for people like you.
@@mystiquesword No, I have been reading Sherlock Holmes stories since I first started to read. Johnlock is only slightly more appealing than this Irene Adler thing. The BBC Sherlock has so many issues, and Irene Adler is just the last straw for me. It almost an in-name-only adaptation.
The original Irene Adler story is absolutely feminist (not talking about intentions here, I don't know about those. Death of the Author).
She outsmarts a misogynist super genius and then goes about her life as she was planning to do anyway.
Agreed! Haven't liked any other interpretation of her, frankly.
Ok, idea for new modern adaptation of alder. Have the plot, honestly it could remain very similar. I can see how maybe in the context of modern royalty or modern politics the kings(or someone else) and Adler's relationship as a theater star could bring about scrutiny or gossip that could disrupts the guy's potential engagement when it's within the sphere of politics, especially royalty. You might need to tweak a couple of things to make the controversy a bit more believable, but if things are tweaked, it's important that Irene should not be in the wrong for having that relationship and then desiring to not have the photos stolen from her, but you need to make sure that the king character isn't also so unlikable that you wonder why Holmes and Watson would agree to help him in the first place (the king can/should be a little unlikable though). Basically the rest of the plot can remain basically identical. maybe the photos are on a usb, and maybe the hidden compartment isn't the fireplace, or maybe it is, idk. But the rest can play out the same right down to sherlock holmes underestimating her due to sexism, because even if a modern sherlock holmes is a bit more open minded about men and women being equal, sexisim is still alive and well and it only takes a glance at how media treats certain female entertainers to understand why sherlock would think he could easily outsmart a female actress.
Now here's the fun bit. You could either let that remain her only appearance, or post mystery, maybe Irene, having retired from acting like in the original story, could take up detective work herself. Let her be successful because of how well she understands people, a skill she picked up while studying characters as an actress. Let her be smart, let her be successful, and let one of her cases collide with one of sherlock's cases so they can but heads again. Let this happen multiple times, win some, lose some. Let her be a rivals on the same side of the law in contrast to the arch nemesis Moriarty is. Let sherlock's ego occasionally get the better of him. Then let them have a mystery where they have to work together because neither could solve it on their own. Let each show off their unique skills. Let there be a character arc where he finally let's go of his ego of being outwitted by her. Let sherlock stop calling her the woman and instead call her a friend.
@@selfcompassionate That‘s the myth of the west who imagines that progress automatically comes in a linear time. The world is more complicated than that. In reality, feminism comes from acting feminist.
I like that idea of Irene Adlers story arch.
@@maplepainttube8158 You clearly have too much creativity for Hollywood.
Exactly! And it just goes to show what a narrow definition of Feminism Hollywood writers have to go "Well, she's a woman who just wants to live her own life, not bothering anyone else, and chooses to marry a man she probably likes quite a lot. There isn't anything that could *possibly* be feminist about that.
"I know what would make this better. Let's just sexualise the hell out of her instead and make her outsmart the hero with her sexuality rather than her wits. So much more empowering. You can't spell Feminism without T&A."
"Asexuals didn't exist back then, did they?"
Me: _glances at dozens of famous philosophers over millennia going "This sex stuff doesn't really do anything for me."_
People misinterpreting Holmes' admiration for Irene Adler kind of plays into the, uh, aphobic trope of "maybe you haven't met the right person yet": Holmes obviously just never met his right person, but Adler, who is his intellectual equal, MUST be his right person because romantic love is the "ultimate feeling" and trumps all or something.
(Also, she was getting married? Do these people care that she has a whole ass husband in the original? No? okay... I mean, since they forgot she was a lesbian in their own adaptation, what can you expect lol)
Genuine, platonic admiration and platonic love feel so... undervalued, sometimes even within the wider queer community (not the aro/ace community, obviously
That is so true! Aphobia turned into a cinematic trope.
As a comment I saw on Reddit put it: I love filmmakers looking at an entire sexuality and going "You know what this needs? Character development."
Moffat also wrote a lesbian who falls in love with his super-cool main character into his run on Doctor Who. It's almost as if he has no respect for *any* form of queerness...
It is kind of sad, amatonormativity, it ruins everything; relationships and how you view and experience them, yeah, but also how you enjoy any fictional media. Hell, despite unlearning as much as I could of amatonormativity once I realized that I'm aroallo, and being a lot more aware of it and seeing signs of it everywhere, I still sometimes struggle with it when it comes to consuming media. I romantically ship characters a lot, which in of itself is not bad nor amatonormative at all, but I sometimes accidentally still devalue platonic relations by believing that they *have* to be romantic; not a lot mind you, but it still happens with me. Like, for example, if I ship Legolas and Gimli from LoTR romantically together, that's fine, but if I think that pure platonic interpretations of their relationship, or familial interpretations or queerplatonic interpretations, are not on equal footing to the romantic interpretation (despite the fact that usually I see relationships that are platonic, familial, or queerplatonic as having more emotional value) then it's a problem. Luckily, I don't do this as much anymore, but I still catch myself doing it and I hate it.
Regarding Sherlock's "leaning in" to his asexuality / aromanticism (aromanticness? aromancity?): Before I learned that asexuality was a thing that applied to me, I just assumed I was straight, 'cause why wouldn't I be?^ And all through college, I thought my peers were choosing to enter sexual and romantic relationships, under the pressure of cultural norms. And, on the flip-side, I *thought* I was making the conscious choice not to -- simply because I found all the other things to do at college much more interesting. I can totally see Sherlock making the same assumptions, and concluding that sex and romance dims your wits ('cause look at how often those relationships fail, and how much hurt they cause when they do).
^(Also, looking back and noticing clues, realizing that my *parents* were each on the ace spectrum, too. And they were my role models for what "Straight" looked like; Mom proposed to Dad by saying: "If we got married, we could co-sign on a mortgage. And if we got a house, we could have CATS." Also, I'm an only child....).
To be honest, that's the best reason I ever heard to get married.
@@shytendeakatamanoir9740 My dad agreed. 😉
Honestly your parents kinda have the right idea there lol
I’m also aroace and I remember being about 10 and sitting in a circle with my best friends at the time talking about who our crushes were. At this point in my life, I thought a crush was someone you thought was aesthetically beautiful (what I know is aesthetic attraction) or liked as friend (what I know are squishes) and didn’t realise there were romantic and/or sexual connotations. I didn’t have any crushes but had already internalised that I was supposed to be straight because heteronormativity, so I just said I had a crush on my guy best friend. I didn’t like him in that way and eventually learned what a crush actually was, however one of my other friends kept teasing me about how I had a crush on him even after I told her I didn’t.
Not gonna lie that would be my perfect marriage
You made me remember the worst part of Sherlock. Season 4 Episode 2 "The Lying Detective" (yes it was written by Moffat because of course it was). Sherlock comes so so close to basically saying he's aromantic. He's like, "Romantic entanglements, while fulfilling for other people--" and John interrupts him. The arophobia. 😩😩😩
I remember too. "completes you as a human being"... Still haunts my nightmares.
I also remember The Abominable Bride. They sit there in silence and Watson pesters him that 'clearly there had to be women, Holmes is a man, he must have urges'... ugh.
Only people who read the original stories will get this, but:
Reading these stories as a kid is what caused me to ask my mom, "what does 'ejaculate' mean?" And she was like "um... in what context?" So I read the sentence I had just read it in out loud to her and she was like "OH. It means the same thing as 'exclaim.'" Only later did I realize what an awkward/humorous question that was and I don't know how she didn't burst out laughing hearing a child ask that LMAO
oh wow I did that exact thing, glad to know I'm not alone lol
@@crystaljiang5976 It's so funny looking back on it 😄 The questions our parents have to answer...
“And I’ve just upgraded my gender!”
Me too, friend, me too. And I swear to God if I have to see one more person try to force people to ignore asexual/aromantic subtext in fiction I WILL riot.
different piece of fiction, but i saw someone say “saiki k isn’t ace, he has xray vision so he can’t see people properly and always sees naked bodies and therefore hasn’t felt attraction yet”.
according to this person: all blind people, doctors, and people who work at nude beaches or whatever, cannot feel attraction. adds up.
“It came with a skirt!” delights me to no end
Holmes and Watson having a queerplatonic or homoromantic relationship is one of my fav ships
Amazing vid
As a neurodivergent aro ace, it makes perfect sense why Sherlock Holmes has been my hero since age 7.
How you went to describe how Holmes turned his neurodivergence into his strength gave me a lot of courage; all my life I’ve been longing to be neurotypical and not be so different. Thank you; since I won’t ever be able to make them go away, I’ll learn to make them into my strengths!
same!
Yeah Sherlock Holmes is very easy to get into for me, too.
BBC's Sherlock programme last decade has so many flaws & I do love Hbomberguy's cannon firing it to the cleaners video.
But wow does it just so easily when you're aro/ace & ND.
Honestly, Ace Sherlock feels like it makes the most sense out of any reading to me.
Are you telling me we could have been calling ourselves Anesthesia Sexuals the entire time?
Honestly, I never throught of Sherlock's sexuality...but when someone mentioned that Sherlock was asexual everything clicked, lol.
Holmes is an old friend of mine. He kept me company during my time as a lonely, asexual teen. I am also autistic, which made him even more relatable to me. Going to the Sherlock Holmes Museum made him feel all more real.
I'm happily ready to join in with you in that mate.
"Holmes is an old friend of mine" - yeah, me too
"lonely, asexual teen" - same tho
"also autistic" - ok now i'm convinced we're actually secretly the same person.
@@astro_penguin_ Hohoho! Perhaps! 😄
I have “come out” as asexual on my social media accounts every Valentines day… and people still think I am allosexual. (Not counting the non v days I remind ppl). There is def. A straight agenda, haha.
I really hate how people always assumed your Allosexual by default.
I am aroace and valentine's day In my opinion was isolated form the original christian context
@@noahsolomon1550 „original christian context“? I‘m not so sure about that. Kat Blaque has an old video about the history of valentine‘s day and it wasn‘t about christianity …
Since most people are allo, it's kinda given that they assume a person is allo.
It is however incredible rude to dismiss a person's sexuality who has already stated they're aro/ace.
@@angeloliver7613
Why assume?!
It's stupid to think you know a person that way.
I kept thinking about Hercule Poirot the whole time. But I also think asexual detective stories is a category in crime fiction 😅
hahaha, yes, ace and queercoded detectives are definitely a trope! although honestly a lot of them are just following on from holmes. personally i think hercule poirot's ace/queercoding is really just a function of his "french coding" though, lmao (yes, i know he's belgian but in terms of "coding" he's absolutely french lol)
There's a wonderful passage in David Suchet's memoir "Poirot and Me" where he specifically talks about Poirot experiencing romantic attraction, but not sexual attraction. He even sometimes wishes he had gotten married, but he knows that very few women in the world would understand or want to put up with him. I'm aroace myself, but it was so *nice* to hear someone understanding the distinction and articulating that kind of... loneliness you can feel, not because you *want* that kind of relationship, but because you just don't want to feel left out. I think the fact that Holmes and Poirot are two of my favorite fictional characters ever should've clued me into my own asexuality sooner.
@@amiefortman7220 oh, that's really interesting!
Yes, and Miss Marple. She canonically never ended up having long-term relationship and seems just content living by herself, doing her thing. You can say whatever, for me she's aroace 😁
So many reasons this video is awesome: 1. Sherlock Hound. 2. Your nails. 3. The whole dang subject of Holmes as aro ace. 4. Watson quacking like a duck.
Sherlock Hound was what convinced me to watch the whole video
That was sherlock bones, sherlock hound is a completely unrelated manga about the great detective being Reincarnated as a dog. No I'm not making this up.
5. The tippytaps during the ending spin~
6. that gorgeous purple skirt
Ok, nice reference with the cactus brooch! I've had to use that analogy once on a straight male who took my disinterest in his self-described "legendary" bedroom skills VERY personally. Unless said bedroom skills are relegated to speed-folding laundry and making perfect mitered hospital corners on a bedspread, I'd rather attempt to bathe enraged cats while blindfolded.
Funny story, I grew up homeschooled and removed from even TV. When I read Sherlock Holmes I “made up” a word to describe him. I had NEVER seen this word used to describe anything other than scientific reproduction, but I figured since “homo” meant “same”, “hetero” meant “opposite”, and “sexual” in this context referring to the sexual attraction, I announced to my family that Sherlock Holmes was Asexual.
I got mocked very thoroughly for this, but I maintained my opinion and my “new word”.
Only after I joined tumblr a few years later did I see this word actually had already been coined. I was very happy to see it though.
"Your regular reminder that the straights are not ok". *sigh* How well I know it.
"I only just upgraded my gender. It came with a skirt!" I noticed, I spent the first 1.5 minutes being distracted by your outfit. I love it, as always. Such a snappy dresser.
Recently I heard a complaint about the way Henry Cavill portrays Sherlock in "Enola Holmes" because they say he plays him with too much emotion. (A few small smiles, and a voiced concern for Enola's safety) are directed toward his little sister. One may seem emotionless but still have concern for the safety of a younger sibling. Ok, that was only tangentially related, since the whole thing is basically a fanfiction, but I never got the impression that Holmes was truly emotionless, just that he *seemed* that way, and didn't Watson make that observation toward the beginning of their relationship? Surely he would not have continued to hang around, so closely in fact, to someone who was truly only the less desirable things he observed about the man. I definitely see the ace (possibly aro), queer, likely nd version of the man, But the idea that that makes him *actually* emotionless seems silly, he just doesn't react the way a straight, allo, hetero, neurotypical man does. So he seems alien to them. Sorry about my rant.
The dumbest thing about that particular complaint of "Enola Holmes" is that apparently, according to the Conan Doyle estate, the stories where Holmes shows genuine emotion/is kind to women/is openly fond of Watson/likes dogs/etc... are still under copyright. Which is utterly baffling to me because even in the pre-"Final Problem" stories, Holmes *does* show a lot of emotion and *is* capable of compassion (and hell, he has Toby the dog in "The Sign of Four"!). Even in their first story together, Watson observes that Holmes appreciates and is visibly flattered by his praise. It feels like the estate is enforcing a version of the character that just doesn't match the text of the actual stories. :/
Another respect in which the Moffat version of Sherlock really fucked up. In the original, Watson stays with Holmes because he knows Holmes really does value and appreciate it, even if he rarely shows it. He is, at the very least, a good friend. How the BBC Sherlock treats Watson is borderline abusive most times, comparing him to an inanimate object, constantly belittling him and calling him an idiot for not being as smart as him, showing very little care for his needs, his comfort or interest in his life.
Moffat doesn't just fail to understand queer relationships. He fails to understand how basic human freindships work.
I honestly always thought he was asexual, even throughout the Sherlock adaptation. I don't know how anyone can see it any differently.
Literally when this video was teased I went "I bet there will be a section where they beat BBC with a steel chair" and I'm so glad I was right I wrote a whole essay with significant focus on Moffat's terrible takes
This is my favourite and only take, thank you!
With regards to Irene in BBC’s Sherlock, I think later season’s Molly Hooper has become a more faithful adaption of ‘the Woman’ than Irene. Moffat and Gatiss once said that their rule with Molly is that in conversations with Sherlock “she always wins”. She gets the last word, the upper hand, the final point. Their relationship is not one of love but respect (on Sherlock’s side at least), and a recognition that women can be strong, intelligent and useful.
Why they had do insist Molly was in love with him, I’ll never know. But without it she makes all the points in the adaption that Irene made in the original, particularly that Holmes can be capable of misjudging a woman, learning from it, and coming to respect her, without her having to take her clothes off or him having to be attracted to her.
Wait you just opened my eyes about Molly thank you
It was while reading a Sherlock Holmes fanfiction that I learned what asexuality was. I'd heard of it once before and the definition given then was something like combining aromanticism and sex repulsed asexuality, and that isn't me. The fanfiction gave me a different view of asexuality where people can have relationships and are aware if someone is attractive, but just not want it for themselves. I'm very grateful to it. If not for that fanfic I might still just be thinking I'm "broken".
I interpret specifically the BBC series Holmes as aromantic gay, the canon book version is very much aroace for me.
yeah same. kinda makes me mad when moftiss said sherlock being gay is not the story they wanted to tell cause that's clearly what they have told us. but yeah in the BBC version the gay is showing but in the books Sherlock doesn't really show love for anyone except for watson so him being aroace and having platonic love for watson seems like the most reasonable thing
why do you interprit the bbc sherlock as aro gay? as a big fan, i never saw it that way, so im curious
@@justsomerandomname2067 I recommend you watch Tjlc explained video 'sherlock is gay', there is a lot of content there but also I think because John is his pressure point and the way he looks at him and the things he had done for that man are definitely not very straight
@@justsomerandomname2067 I really see him as disastrously attracted to John (mainly because of fanmade edits :D). I interpret his lack of understanding for romance and thinking of sexual attraction as much more reasonable as being alloaro. Also i kind of project myself onto one of my first kins ;D
Umm not sure how the books would make sherlock aro ace when he is in fact hetro-romantic asexual in the books, seeing as how he & irene have one son: nero wolf.
Also, on film, irene is almost always shown as someone into bdsm & according to the aven website, a lot of aces tend to gravitate towards that.
A very common but wrong misconception about asexuality is that we cant love & cant have sex. Neither is true. We love just fine & allow sex in certain situations we are comfortable with. (Also bdsm is not necessarily penetrative sex & virgins can do it.)
It is how we attract that makes us ace. We wont jump on you cuz you are hot. We dont see or care about hotness. We do see beauty & acknowledge it but it wont make us want you. We attract to intellect, not physical appearance which is exactly what happens with sherlock & irene.
Thank you so much for this. I agree with everything, Sherlock is aroace and in a QPR with Watson, and Irene Adler has been mishandled in a lot of adaptations. I love queer reading of Sherlock Holmes and I love your channel. Also yay skirt go twirl
One year later edit: ok I still love the aroace reading of Sherlock, but after reading this blog post/article I realized there’s also a lot of gay references in the books that I missed. They’re very subtle and specific to the Victorian era, but it’s stuff like mentioning that they go to bathhouses aka gay sex buildings, and that they left London in 1895 which is when a lot of gay people also left due to the Oscar Wilde trial.
Yes Irene is Moriarty in Elementary, and has *amazing* sexual enemy's energy with Watson. I really do recommend it
(Yes I was tripping over myself to not use a term from a certain fictional webcomic because boy we don't have a common term for that type of relationship despite how many examples I can point to it in fiction.)
For a great example of an Irene who doesn't really go texturally romantic with Holmes, I recommended the anime Moriarty the Patriot. It has Moriarty as the central character and as a morally grey Robin Hood basically who goes after the criminal rich, to often lethal levels.
yes Elementary is great! I was going to recommend it as well as moriarty the patriot but not the anime bc the pacing didn't worked for me plus I heard they cutted a lot of it, so I'll recomend the manga, especially bc of what they do with Irene as well, not just the not romantic thing, but the further queering of them.
I *vastly* prefered _Elementary_ over _Sherlock_ (fighting words on the internet, I know!) And as much as I totally see Holmes as aro(ace) in my head I absolutely LOVED what they did with Irene/Moriarty in Elementary! Maybe I'm naive, but the reveal sticks with me as one of the most genuinely surprising TV moments. It's an amazing payoff and played to perfection. And her storylines were so complex - she is *very* much not a flimsy excuse for a sex object for Sherlock, she's a true mastermind, totally on her own level, and yeah, the chemistry with Watson is great. It's not just about Sherlock.
Actually, Lucy Liu as Watson is just amazing, full stop. I think she might be the only version of Watson that isn't just a doormat/target for Sherlock's assholery. They are true equals. Can you even imagine her meeting up with BBC Sherlock? He is a stunted brat in comparison. (Actually I kinda want to see that now... I think she'd be slamming the door on him in like five minutes!)
@@secondjulia ooh yeah! that scene of her reveal sticks with you! it's so perfect!
@@secondjulia I don't think you're alone in this. At least not on Tumblr. There is much love for Elementary there, especially for Lucy Liu's Watson. 🤗
Stephen Moffat really just said 'ace people are boring lol'
Ah, amatonormativity. My nemesis, my detriment. The Moriarty to my Sherlock.
It makes me so happy that you leaned heavily on Granada Holmes. I watched the whole series this past summer and I can't tell you how instantly and deeply I made a connection with Jeremy Brett's portrayal. Like you said, the character may not have been explicitly written aroace but my heart knows it to be so.
I’ve been obsessed with Sherlock Holmes for years before realising I was aroace - I haven’t read the stories in aeons, but this video was so good I just might read a few again (and by a few, i do mean The three Garridebs)
"Yarr, he's bi-homicidal."
Why did this feel like a Foxy line?
hello fellow fnaf fan👩🏼💻
like he "writes" both children and adults?
@@krasmazov1959
Yes!
The BBC adaption of Sherlock will always have a special place in my heart because I was fifteen when I first watched it and became obsessed with it. I’m 21 now and I identify as aroace, an identity I didn’t even know existed when I was fifteen cos it’s NEVER talked about in mainstream culture. It makes me so upset to see how aphobic and homophobic BBC Sherlock is with the knowledge I have now. I always liked fanfiction more than the actual show anyway, though I never shipped Holmes and Watson romantically/sexually as I was a little closeted aroace and I decided that just didn’t fit with how I saw Holmes. I DEFINITELY think Holmes and Watson are in a QPR cos that just sits so well with me and it makes my queer heart happy. And to the people who ship Holmes with a woman????? Wtf is wrong with you??
the bewildered spite at the Sherlock-Irene Adler shippers is everything
I mean it's so obvious he's Ace! Also: someone who growls out "Irene Adler" like I do whenever someone brings her up! 🤣
When you got dizzy at the end it made my day; you're just so cute. Doing the spinny without getting dizzy takes practice. 😄
rowan ellis and david j bradley putting out videos within like a day of each other we are truly thriving
This is great. I always saw Holmes as a BiPolar sufferer who was absolutely Asexual and homoromantic
Bipolar could definitely fit. Though I also see the ND stuff, with him doing the cocaine to keep his mind from eating itself out of boredom. As someone with ADHD myself, I definitely get that.
@@DawnDavidson yeah I get both perspectives very much so
@@DawnDavidson for your information, being bipolar is actually a neurodivergency, it's not just ADHD and autism and such
4:42 well, we didn't have a word for gravity before the 1620's. That doesn't mean it didn't exist before then
Love the skirt and vest combo outfit! :)
correction the author didn't bring back Homes because of public outcry but because he got a letter from his mom, telling him she liked the stories and would like to read new ones
I'm so glad I have a reclining desk chair because I was leaning back in my chair in shock at the *ridiculouslness* and *audacity* that the hets had in trying to force this idea that Holmes was a straight man. If they stretched any farther, I think they might pull a muscle!! I'm also so sick of asexual characters in media being depicted as "uninteresting." Like we don't deserve validation because our lack of sexual attraction bores them. It's so disgustingly aphobic and really shows that any queer relationships they even imply are all for attracting the viewers' interest and with zero regard for any people they may hurt.
.
I personally imagine him to be demi-homoromantic asexual (though I also ADORE the interpretation of them being queer-platonic partners). I genuinely cannot see how there is any room for plausible deniability that Holmes is queer and on the ace spectrum considering the fact that the only person that Holmes seems to show any desire and affection for is Watson and his disinterest and aversion towards women is explicitly spelled out.
Also, the timing on this is wonderful. You mentioned how basically everyone has at least one interprertation of Holmes out there that they love. For me, it was the Ace Attorney games that came out this summer. Seeing his interpretation in the games as well as their unique ways of interpreting characters like Inspectors Lestrade & Gregson. And don't get me started on how they portrayed Watson! It was my favorite plot twist in the entire game. Not to mention, the entire series is undeniably queer-coded and attracts queer audiences, so in both canon and fanfiction, I almost never encounter forced heterosexuality. It's actually quite noteworthy when I do because it's so rare.
I was honestly disgusted and stunned by your section on Irene Adler. My only exposure to her was in a fanfic where Irene was borderline *disgusted* by Holmes for comedic effect and showed the most affection and respect towards men who respected her independence and did not try to force gender roles or submissiveness onto her.
.
Also, congrats on aquiring a new gender! You look KILLER in that skirt!
I'm a-spec and autistic, and Holmes was my main role-model as a kid. I even took up violin because that was what Holmes played.
Then, the Guy Ritchie films came out and I hated them for what they did with Irene Adler (although Jared Harris as Moriarty is exquisite casting). Then, Sherlock which promised so well at the beginning of the first episode but started to fall apart (in my opinion) when Sherlock monologues about "who hunts in a crowd?" and doesn't come up with cabbie.
I appreciate that you at least went 21 minutes without even mentioning BBC Sherlock. Thank you. XD
Your points about feminism and Irene Adler is excellent! Thank you!!
You should watch Elementary. Lucy Liu in KILLER suits. Also, it does some interesting things with it all, and most importantly: It's fun.
Thank you very much for making this, and thank you especially for the long, confused silence at the thought of people shipping Sherlock and Irene. I died laughing for the entire fifteen seconds. I highly recommend watching Elementary though because it actually contains a QPR, even though it isn't referred to as that. Joan and Sherlock often describe themselves as two people who love each other, but there's not a hint of romance in their relationship, and they are definitely the most important people in each other's lives
recently started reading every sherlock holmes novel and short story at the end of june and i'm almost finished, and i'm so happy to see such a similar opinion to my own! it really helps me as a fellow aspec person feel a lot less alone in my reading of holmes' character :))
i have currently fallen into "Elementary" rabbithole (another adaptation), and i gotta say aromantic/grayromantic vibes are very strong over there
THANK YOU THANK YOU !! First because I'm genuinely tired of Irene Adler's portrayal in modern media, but also because you put words on how I see Holmes and Watson. See, through movies and series I saw Holmes as gay (still do in some cases), but when I read the books I had a decisively different feel. And I was *uncomfortable* with the feel, but thanks to you and other ace creators, I was eventually able to understand that my discomfort was my allo butt struggling to understand asexuality, aromanticism and QPR (which I finally GOT with *this* video) and thus taking a mental shorcut and thinking "but if no sex or romantic love, then this human unfeeling and thus NOT human, no ?????" And I *knew* on a basic level that couldn't be right, but also the amatonormativity is so strong I couldn't imagine anything else so I was just left to mentally wriggle uncomfortably.
You got NO idea how *relieved* I am from finally understanding QPR and how it relates to Holmes and Watson in the books. Because that *is* how I interpret them but I didn't know it was even a thing, let alone how to call it, argh !!
Sorry for the enthousiasm but it really lifts a weight off my soul, I swear.
I'll just add that outside of my galaxy brain moment, this was a delightful video as always and that you look uber cute in that skirt. It really warms my heart to see you living your best life 💛💌💜🖤
Loving the upgraded gender :)
EDIT: that was AMAZING OMG. You really know how to write compelling scripts! Usually I speed up videos because I am Extremely Impatient, but I don’t think I ever have for yours (and I certainly didn’t for this one, and it’s 42 mins long). There were some parts where I genuinely burst out laughing such as your jab at Irene/Sherlock at the beginning and your EXTREMELY VALID TAKE ON BILL AND TED THAT I SOMEHOW NEVER NOTICED BEFORE BUT I ABSOLUTELY LOVE, and other points where I sat there grinning because everything made so much sense and also discussion of QPR Sherlock/Watson makes me very happy. I’m going to go away and finally reread the books again, plus see if I can get my hands on Granada Holmes and the Rathbone-Bruce adaptation you mentioned! Thanks for another awesome video!
I've always been a hardcore fan of Sherlock Holmes and the stories ever since I came to know about it and read them back in my "sensitive" years, and at that time I didn't even know the term asexual when I've been. It took me a long time to realize he was implied aro-ace once I dug deep into random forums. One thing that many others who counter-argue this interpretation is that the story itself focuses on the mystery and adventure so the author kept it that way. However, thinking back on it, it made all the more sense to me that he's aro-ace, imo perhaps due to my biasness as a fellow ace and how I deeply connect with the character.
Those who are interested to see more adaptation to Sherlock Holmes stories, I recommend "Moriarty the Patriot," which is another anime adaptation that focuses on the mastermind professor. I thought the character of Irene Adler there gives justice to the canon Irene Adler, who literally portrays a strong independent woman and feminist in her own way.
The BBC Sherlock will always be my favorite. I enjoyed the poke at John's sexuality at first before i realized what queer bating was. I just wanted to point out something from my perspective.
I never saw Irene Adler as a lover for Sherlock. I saw him more intrigued in her for her brain and her proclivity to kink. I think Sherlock would be interested in experimenting with kink as he is portrayed as a personality that seeks out the next high or adrenaline rush. I'm that aspect i always saw her as a possible play partner, never in a sexual context.
I think your kink theory fits very well with the Elementary series version of Holmes. He has sexual partners occasionally on that series, but it's clear it's nothing more than an activity to either release energy or to explore a theory. Other than his relationship with Moriarty, he doesn't really express romantic attraction.
Thank you, I loved this video and I think you did a great job at it.
I love your outfit! It's so pretty! I have to agree with some of the other commenters that I've only ever seen Holmes as ace aro. I remember as a child getting really frustrated when he was characterized as straight or gay. I was like, "Why are people shipping him with Irene or Watson? They're obviously just good friends! Why do they have to be in love with each other?" Looking back, I probably should've realized that I'm ace aro a lot sooner. Anyway, my tangents aside, thanks for another great video. I look forward to the next one.
Haha, I sympathise with you as a grayro ace... I kept seeing people ship him and I got so annoyed, and I kept thinking 'He's just not interested, stop forcing him to be in a relationship! He already said he liked his work more! I like Holmes and Watson (and Irene) as friends, it's so much more complex and interesting!' It got to the point when I started wondering if I had subconscious homophobia because I didn't like the Watson ship (I know, a bit of a jump in logic) but then I didn't like him with anyone else either :p
YES. PLEASE. This very very compelling reading of Sherlock Holmes should seriously be more widespread or at least well-known.
24:05 I remember reading the story she was in and idk if Sherlock had specific attractions to her or what but he was def very intrigued by her. As he should be. She’s absolutely fascinating
I'd like to put in that my favorite ace in any media ever is based on Sherlock. Grand Admiral Thrawn of Star Wars fame is an absolute asexual king. The Blue Boy. The Man. The Ace Legend.
why would he want to have dinner if he wasn’t hungry
When I first read Sherlock Homes, way back in the day, one of the things I really liked was the lack of a love interest for him. I adored the fact it focused on whatever the heck Holmes and Watson had going on. I wanted more stories like that and was always disappointed when I couldn't find them. It took a long time to figure out Holmes and I weren't broken.
"the straightest man who ever straighted."
Loved that.
My dad's a huge Sherlockian, so I grew up with Holmes. And I just always knew we were the same. Even when I had no concept of what it really was. So Holmes was always my touchstone as I figured myself out, as Ace and ND.
Okay so I came here because one of my friends said "This is literally you, like this person is your alternate self". I came here without much thought. I'm only 4 minutes in and I'm seriously considering if I have a lost twin. This is literally me on a daily basis 🤣 The silence from 4:03 to 4:13 I'm WHEEZING
Very excited for this deep dive!
Thank you as always for the stunning and informative work you do
cant wait for this video ‘cause yes.
This was an absolute delightful video essay to watch. I totally agree on Sherlock being aroace.
Arya from GoT as well. They are a masc non-binary aroace as far as I'm concerned.
The girl has no gender :) (update: I wrote this for the sake of the pun, but that would make her agender, so maybe my pun is not accurate)
3:51 Sherlock being acearo makes so much sense. Obvi Watson is very much in love with him too. Just reading some actual excerpts from the series and idek how people don’t see it.
this is absolutely amazing! i've always seen him like this as a demi-aroace myself.
also the dramatic pause at the mention of Sherlock x Irene is the greatest thing!
i would also like to point out the in BBC Sherlock, he never fell for Irene, he was faking it.
Ive never been a massive Holmes nerd, but from all the media I have consumed about Sherlock, I always related strongly in this way. A huge part of my fears about my future involve who I will live with, even get married to, but it's hard finding someone else who wants that when the relationship isn't sexual or even very romantic at times.
9:26 "But it's not as if you can actively stop yourself from feeling attracted to people through sheer willpower alone." Hearing this suddenly made me remember that before I found out I was aromantic, I would often think to myself, "Huh, I guess I'm not having crushes because I just don't want to." 💀
But I absolutely love the reading of Sherlock being an aplspec aroace man who's in a QPR with his straight bestie.
Just found you recently and feel very seen here. I grew up in the 60’s and was role policed and self policed most of my life. I always felt this regarding Holmes being an avid reader but had no way to name it. Thanks for this channel and for these conversations ✌️🌈!
I've been looking forward to this one. It's even so much better than I expected 😃
The only information I knew about Sherlock Holmes before this video was a few animated adaptations and the obsessive behavior of Sherlock shippers. This was such a great analysis of his character and I’m glad to learn more about him and peoples interpretations of him and the stories he’s in.
This is such a good video!! It’s nice to see I’m not the only one who read the books this way. As an aro ace neurodivergient person, Sherlock Holmes is one of the few characters I feel accurately represents me.
As in a-romantic it is interesting to see characters being interpreted either as a-romantic or asexual. Through media studies, I'm aware of slash & fem-slash fan fiction, I'm hoping to see more representation of a-romanticism in popular culture.
oh i cann't wait
Reading Sherlock and Watson as in a QPR really resonates with me
Hes my neurodiverse and ace icon. Glad he gives me the confindence I need! I wish more adaptations nowadays would take the ace part and run with it and make it even better.
My favourite Holmes adaptation by far is the Bert Coules radio series. It holds the distinction of being the only series in which every story was performed by the same Holmes and Watson actors. There are loads of really great domestic scenes between the two of them, Irene Adler is done perfectly (including actually giving her an American accent), and I love what they did with the framing of The Lion's Mane.
Truly an ace detective
Realizing that this could be a reason why I loved Sherlock Holmes as a kid. While my friends were getting their first crushes and what not I was just vibing reading and relating to Holmes 😂
4:13 got me so good I've been choking for the last 15 seconds
So totally relate to been both autistic and ace, also ADHD. Am only just learning to accept I might be gender fluid too. Some days I am perfectly fine been female, most days I have no real gender at all and once in blue moon I feel decidedly masculine. The more comfortable I get with this, the more often I feel this way.
The description of QPRs in this video alone is enough for me to send it to someone with whom we have a relationship that is depending on alter romantic, alterous, or platonic.
great video! fueled my resentment of bbc Sherlock once more. also i had never thought of his hyperfocus on his work as neurodivergent but it makes so much sense!
i don't know why some people (not you!) create a conflict between Sherlock as aro/ace or gay as if he couldn't be both 🤔 like... i am lol
This video was fantastic. So glad I found your channel!
Fascinating! You've done it again.
I'll be honest and vulnerable, I have the HARDEST TIME trying to view the world through an ace (or aro) lens. I want to, but it's like...so hard to undo that particular bit of social programming as a sexual (and romantic) person. I love and support ace people and I appreciate your content as it helps me get that little bit closer to actually hopefully understanding! Also, full on, a QPR sounds MAGICALLY wonderful to me. I'd love to be in a QPR.
I will now always think of ACD as "Arthur Continuity Doyle."
Wait, what? I don't want to, by any means, to diminish the importance of this fantastic video essay.
But people really need to tell them that Holmes is asexual? You only need to read the canon stories, and it will be PRETTY clear.
In any case, thank you for the video, I've really enjoyed it.
Just for the record, "The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes" was released in 1970, not 1974.
I'm SOOOOOO exited for this video, cuz a huge Sherlock Holmes fan!!!!
Edit: I love both the Sherlock Holmes outfit and the outfit with the skirt :D
Edit: I really enjoyed this video! Just amazing! 😍😍😍😍
Oh I so agree with you when it comes to Irene Adler's treatment in adaptations. I feel the same way about those as I do about what My Fair Lady DID to Pygmalion.
Fucking. Livid.
Thanks for pointing out what I've always said. I states pretty explicitly in the text that Holmes is not interested in romantic relationships at all. Like I'm not even ace or aro but still, taking that representation away in adaptations bothers me. Also, yeah, the Granada version of Holmes with Jeremy Brett is THE definitive adaptation of the series. I grew up watching those with my dad I'm really happy to see people recognizing how well done they are.
oh! everything i love! can't wait!
I love the Sherlock Holmes stories. I have read them, heard the audio dramatisations, and seen many adaptations (love the Jeremy Brett ones the most).
One of the reasons I like it so much might be that he does seem very Ace. And I saw myself in that as a kid, without identifying why.
Also, many of the stories opens with a sensible young woman who has collected good, thorough data that is relayed in a calm and Scientific manner, perfect for Holmes' skills, and they actively appreciate her for it. It always made me think of how I would collect data and present it, in case I needed their help. I am now a Scientist!
The Solitary Cyclist is a particularly good example.
Talking about Moffat, as a kid i always read the Doctor as ace in the original series and though well i didn't have the language to describe it, it always felt out of character when Davies and Moffat tried to put romance into Doctor Who.
Your impression of Steven Moffat is genius. He did something similar to Doctor Who (alongside Russel T Davis and that awful 1996 movie)
I find the "thing" between Holmes and Adler in the Sherlock show enormously intriguing because the mutual attraction or what one should call it, goes against character for both of them.
This may say more about me, I freely admit that, but bear with me.
I see it as both of them seeing something akin tothemselves in each other, but also something truly heretofore unknown. Alien even.
Maybe I'm projecting here. I'm all but convinced that I've grown from being in the bottom end of a "average" sex drive in my youth, to now having been volontarily without physical intimacy for over four years with no issues about it whatsoever.
Honestly I think there are readings of these two that could be absolutely fascinating in terms of exploring other forms of attraction beyond romantic and sexual. Do I think the writers intended it this way? Nope. Do I care? Nope, not really. The author is dead, the text can speak for itself, so why the hell not put aside our own assumptions of comp-het and dig deeper on what a mutual fascination between an aroace man and a lesbian woman might be without questioning either of their orientations.
@@bevinbrand4637 Agreed. I find that possibly my own increasing aceness has sat deeper for far longer than I've recognised.
i always loved elementarys take on sherlock (tho id argue hes more represented as aromantic rather than asexual in that adaptation) he and joan develop a very clear domestic partnership with no romantic feelings for one another but rather a deep closeness and connection between the two the story never once presents the relationship in a romantic light but never presents it as “less than” (id argue their platonic relationship is more often presented as taking precedent over romantic ones!) they are the closest ive seen to a true portrayal of a qpr in mainstream media
The idea of Sherlock being AroAce brings me a small amount of comfort weirdly