Who else is having their 1st Valentine's Day after realising that being Aromantic was a thing? Got myself some candies BEFORE they went half price, just to let me know I care.
Same here, the high of thinking I had my identity worked out back in December was gradually wearing off as my excitement in consuming ace media faded. And the onset of Valentines day, the realisation that everyone close in my life had a partner, made me realise just how much I didn't fit, and just how much I now need to keep from outing myself. I'm unsure whether it's worth coming out, the lack of awareness protects ace people from being hassled about being "fixed", but at the cost of never quite feeling like a full human experience. There's only so much self care can do.
This is my first Valentine's since getting past the fear that I wasn't really ace! Now I'm trying to figure out if I'm aro or something else, so hopefully I'll be able to mark 2022 Valentine's as the first for however that turns out.
@Keighen Snavely I was raised believing that people who identify as anything other than what they were born as were just trying to get attention or they hate themselves. Because I was raised believing that and I didn't hate myself or want attention I assumed I couldn't possibly be anything else. After struggling with the fact that I didn't want to be in a relationship or have sex like everyone else I finally discovered the terms Asexual, Aromantic, and Non-Binary Demigirl and that there are other people like me that I've realized those beliefs are wrong.
My sister used to date this one guy who insisted that they weren't gay. One of the reasons he gave was that his ass was so tight that if you stuck anything in there it would have turned into a diamond. I don't remember the events since I was 3 or something at the time of this happening, but either my sister and him broke up because he did came out or after they broke up, he came out as gay.
@@jayquillberry4972 I was raised as a devout catholic. It was actually me failing to defend Trump that kickstarted my revelation. I realized that I couldn't trust everything my parents told me. I did some research and unwillingly became an agnostic (later, upon finding Aron Ra, I finally accepted that I was an atheist despite getting my communion literally the year before). The next year, I met a girl. We were close, held hands, cuddled, always in physical contact with each other. Then I moved away. I never felt any attraction to her, but I retroactively tried to justify our closeness, and she was my best friend, closer than any of my other best friends, and I'd never heard of a QPR, so I hesitantly identified as Bi, desperately trying to justify my relationship with her. I'd heard of Pan at the time, but thought that nonbinary people were fake, so I decided not to use it. I struggled for a little while before coming out to my brother and dad, to positive reception (though I still can't tell if my dad was trying to one up my mom or if he was genuinely supportive). I quickly realized that I was definitely ace. In a spur of the moment decision, on Christmas eve, I told my sister I was bi, and she then outed me to my mom. She said I was going to hell. I tried to placate her by telling her that I was ace so I wouldn't do any "sinful things", she didn't listen and I honestly don't know why I thought that would work. Now, she's convinced it was a phase. It wasn't, I just learned that I couldn't trust her or my sister with anything anymore. I did some research into nonbinary people after hearing a lot about it and finally realizing that I needed to readjust all my views because religious indoctrination definitely had an impact, and I acknowledged that they were a thing, changing my label to Pan, but not telling anyone because of embarrassment at being wrong and because my brother claimed that nonbinary people were fake and I didn't want to lose him because he's the only family member I tolerated (even though he was getting more entitled and conservative as time went on.) I did more research into nonbinary people, realized that their experiences were eerily similar to mine. I was an egg for a while, before realizing that supressing my gender would not go down well. I jumped around labels and eventually settled on Agender; even if it never felt quite right, it was the label I held the longest before coming to the conclusion I hold today. After that, I started struggling with the fact that everyone seemed to have crushes on strangers and celebrities and I just didn't, despite having gone through puberty. My mom even claimed that she got super horny around her period, something I've simply never experienced (though that's pretty much irrelevant, because it only solidified my Asexuality). I did some introspection and realized that all my previous "crushes" were all on people I was good friends with, so I took on the label "Demi". That settled for the moment, I went back to looking for a fitting gender label and found Trigender. See, genderfluid never quite fit because I switched between combinations of male, female, and agender, which made identifying a specific switch much harder unless I actively monitored my unconscious clothing choices/preferences and pronoun preferences(though that was harder to track), Trigender allows for you to be all three genders at once, or to switch between them or any combination of them at any time. So while genderfluid and Trigender both fit, I settled for Trigender because it made more sense (even if I find the flag kinda ugly ngl). I use they/them pronouns because the gendered pronouns cause more dysphoria if I happen to not be male or female at the time and, as I said, my switches are hard to track, so preventing that through giving specific pronouns I want is harder. That fully, finally, settled, I decided to take a risk and come out to my nonbinary-denying brother, because he was the most accepting person in my family(which isn't saying much because he's still a dick). It went about as well as expected: I told him I was nonbinary, knowing that telling him my specific label would weaken my argument, I pulled out all sorts of resources, and he still offered to debunk my gender. If he didn't believe me, the rest of my family is a lost cause. My mother is homophobic, my dad is abusive so even if he accepts me I won't be happy, my sister is following in my mom's footsteps, and my brother thinks I'm a tomboy that wants attention. I kind of already knew it, but that was the final nail in the coffin, so I'm firmly in the closet and will remain as such until I'm no longer dependent on my mom's finances, and nothing will change that now. Later, while reading a GreyAro acceptance post on Tumblr, I happened upon the term "Queerplatonic Relationship," which I'd only briefly heard and read about in the discussion of a fanfic that I didn't bother reading. I watched one video on it, found it weird. Ignored it. Later, out of boredom, I read on it a little more, and decided to read the fanfic I'd ignored. Then, my mind was blown: it was exactly what I wanted. No kissing or sex, just cuddling, closeness, no expectation of marriage (though the option is always there), and just being really close best friends. I did some reflecting and realized that my past crushes were mostly because someone was cool and I wanted to spend time with them more than anything else, even if they were already my best friends. Though one stuck out. Jenny. We were really close, holding hands, cuddling, everything I wanted. She was my zucchini, whether I knew it at the time or not. I didn't have a crush on her, I was simply trying to justify something that I found "wrong" and ever since then, I've realized that I was Aro. I'm still not sure if I'm Asexual or Apothisexual, I seem to ride a midline between them. Perhaps I'll find a term, maybe I won't, but as it stands, I've gone through years of reflection to figure myself out. My mom saying that I'm going to hell won't stop me, and my brother saying I'm delusional won't either. TL;DR: I went through quite the journey and am satisfied with the progress I've made in understanding myself. Even if the labels turn out to be inaccurate, they still helped me on my journey, so I shouldn't be ashamed of the winding road I'm walking.
@@Error403HRD I don't think I can ever come out to my family. Probably never will. Even when I imply how I feel my mom and my sibling would tense. My mom is also concerned that going to school to pursue a degree in psychology will turn me "liberal". I always have to deny it because I don't think I can tell them.
As a disabled person who spent years believing that a romantic relationship was not in the cards for me due to both my disability and graysexuality,(and is currently celebrating 10 years with my partner) friends can absolutely hold the same power as romantic love. You can see signs of love in the way your friends hold themselves, in their grace and their silly moments. You can see it in the way they care for you and you care for them. You can feel it in the way their touch feels and the protection you feel to be able to be vulnerable. All the other stuff (sexuality, sleeping in the same room/house etc) can be worked out if the person is right for you and the foundation is strong.
Back when I was in college, there were alternate parties on February 14 for people who didn't have romantic partners: "Singles Awareness Day" (SAD -- ha, ha. Get it? ~sigh~). I now want to rename it: "Beyond Amato-Normativity Day," so people can invite their friends to a to a party (when that's a thing again) by asking: "Hey, wanna join my BAND?" ~wink~ Never underestimate the power of a good pun.
November 11th is Singles Day in China (get it, because 11/11). It's basically like Valentine's day but corporations can capitalize off single people instead of couples.
@@squashfei8907 A while back (10 years? 15? What is time?) an individual tried to get a trend of "monster day" started -- where the day after Valentine's, the "celebration" would be to buy a bunch of now discount candy that's left over, cook a healthy meal with lots of veggies (for balance), and watch monster movies, and draw pictures of monsters, and send monster-themed greeting cards. This is something I could get behind. But unfortunately, one person's endeavors wasn't enough to start a trend, and it fizzled out after about three years.
As an aromantic asexual person, I think I speak for many people when I say we’re super glad to have you in the arospec community!!! Take your time to find a label that works for you! If greyromantic works, then that’s lovely! Also you get the wonderful privilege of saying “no romo” when you compliment someone! Love you (no romo though)! :)
I’ve been using no romo with my friends for ages. This is the first time I’ve be er heard anyone else use that. Is it actually a common thing in the arospec community? I never really interact with other aros. Am I missing out on lots of amazing aro puns?
"Seeing people around me who are in relationships and in love and have that kind of connection... it makes me really terrified of being alone." I have never felt so seen before. I'm so scared of becoming isolated as all my friends marry off and have families; I don't want to come home to an empty house for the rest of my life. Being completely alone like that is terrifying.
Mood, I always feel like my friends will eventually move on from me when they have families and we all go separate ways because friends aren’t supposed to be as tightly connected to you as a romantic partner. Romantic partners, if they don’t break up with you ofc, will most likely stay with you and be by your side no matter where your lives lead you while friends can just disappear and it’s normal not to see them in long periods of time
I kinda do want to come home to an empty house for the rest of my life, but I can definitely relate to the terrifying feeling of being abandoned or left behind by friends who seems to go on living completely different lives as the get married and have kids. I also sometimes start wondering if it’s even appropriate for me to hang out with them anymore because I might be “too immature” to relate to them now.
@@kristine5561 mood, sometimes I’m like is it okay or am I too clingy if I want to spend all my time w/ them while they are „just“ my friends which is supposed to be less important than romantic relationships or family or even stuff like work
David, I have no way to explain to you how grateful I am for this video. I'll be 28 years old and I too have never been in a romantic/sexual relationship. Last time I went on a date, and it has been years, at the end, I was basically begging for the other person to not kiss me, I was terrified. I identify as greyace since I was 20, and I remember how relieved I felt to find a label that fit better than the others, but as years passed... And some violence I suffered... I... It feels more like a sentence now, of endless solitude. And I don't know. Anyway, I feel more human to hear someone else talk about this, especially from someone I admire.
40 here, single and I haven't had a relationship in about a decade. I am not particularly looking for one. I am generally bad with deeper connections with other humans. The constant pressure to not be alone is grating.
Finally! Another non-aspec or allo person who understands that having romantic or sexual attraction doesn't mean you have to end up in a relationship. Inherently, everyone doesn't need a relationship. Individually, a person may need a relationship... or not, and that's okay either way! People need to really think for themselves. They must ask themselves if they really need *this* or they just think they need *this* because society expects them to need it. You can be allo, have had a love life and still live the rest of your life alone. That can be okay as what matters is whether or not you're lonely while being alone. One can be alone without being lonely. That's cool. As the opposite, some aros/arospecs (like me, for example) may want to romantically date someone even with a lack of attraction. I'm demi specifically, so for me, I date people with a lack of attraction because I expect to have romantic attraction for the person later. That's cool too. Thanks for your comment, pal!
@@sharonoddlyenough I honestly wondered the same thing when I first learnt about aro/ace ideas. In retrospect, I dont think it applies to me but I understand questioning things.
@@cmmosher8035 I think I'm not ace, but demisexual fits me pretty well. I've had crushes, but only after I knew them a while, and very few too. I'm relaxed about the whole thing, never really wanted kids. No relations of any kind until my 20's. I'm somewhere on that spectrum for sure, anyways. Eh, now I sound defensive. Still figuring this out.
making up a fictional person to be fake-in love with is the most aromantic thing i've ever heard, lmao. i remember choosing a random person to want to marry in high school just because they were nice to me once
Lmao not me evaluating all people in my class on the basis of who would logically be the best partner and deciding to have a "crush" on said person in both primary school and middle school
oooooh THIS!!! I asked people who they thought I should marry when I was 5, and decided that their choice meant that he was my crush. I considered him my crush until I was almost 17... I barely saw him past the age of 10.
I've never heard someone so aptly describe what it's like to be torn between being comfortable with your identity and feeling like you're falling behind. Thank you. I'm 21, and I've never been on a date, and I feel like I should be farther along. I'm ace, questioning my romantic identity. I've always wanted a relationship but it's never been the most important thing in my life. My parents treat me like I'm naive, immature, or both. My friends are supportive but I feel like such a kid whenever they talk about relationships. It's so hard.
Same, at the same time having feelings of guilt, anxiety, sadness and most defenetly loneliness over never having that kind of connection and yet not seeking it
Same but I am 25. Thankfully most of my friends are similar which is a very astronomically rare thing to have. My parents were judgy, but over the years constantly talking to them and trying to get through has worked and now they leave me alone (figuratively, we still live together). It was pretty hard when I was younger, but engaging with friends (or even meetup groups for ace people) who are similar or atleast understand as well as just having a hobby like video games and enjoying yourself (and taking care of yourself) helps.
I'm almost 27 and feel the same. For me, the idea of having a (romantic and/or sexual) relationship didn't even really enter my brain until a few years ago after I realized that I was trans and started feeling more comfortable with my gender. And even now, I don't think I want to have a sexual or romantic relationship but I do want to be a parent and raise kids with another person. I see all my (mostly cishet) friends in relationships, talking about marriage and kids, and I feel like I'm too far behind and I also feel more and more left out of their conversations because I just can't relate.
I really want to tell you that the feeling of “lagging behind” like it’s a race and you’re losing, goes away as you get older, but I think for most people it seems to not do that. That feeling lessened a lot for me lately (I just turned 29), but I might be an outlier on this aspect. Either way, I hope you someday manage to figure out and come to terms with your identity.
I totally resonate with this comment. In the past I leaned hard into the 'you just haven't met the right person yet' theory, because I had that feeling of getting too old/running out of time. 10+ years later, I would really love to talk to my younger self. I'd tell myself that I tried a ton of it, that I've finally accepted that I'm solidly somewhere on the aroace spectrums (still trying to nail it down more than that and leaning towards the flux labels). I'd say, sure I can, & have, enjoyed relationships and sex, but really, I would've preferred some good chocolate cake and a cuddle, more than bodily fluids and obligations to people I liked more as close friends. I wish I'd treated sex and relationships less like a checklist on the way to a societial-imposed version of happily ever after. I wish I didn't still have parts of me hoping for that. Hugs to everyone with these same fears and pressures. You're not alone.
Holy shit! I felt the holding onto the greyromantic label just in case you might find romantic attraction one day. So glad to not feel alone in my feelings
I think it's not only 100% okay to feel this way.. that's maybe what gray-romantic is. If you feel you don't want to close that door, then don't! It's not just about how you feel now, it's how you think you'll fill in the future. That's why bisexual people don't turn straight when in a straight relationship. If in the future you decide to shut the door, you can. It's not like you're letting the heat out leaving it open just in case in the mean time.
I don’t know if it’s a good thing or a bad thing that I took on the aro label before I knew grayromanticism was a thing. I’ve just come to the conclusion that I’ll be alone forever and I can’t be bothered to think differently now.
i first heard the terms aro and ace on tumblr when i was in my teens and immediately adopted ace, but i was a lot more hesitant to embrace aro because of amatonormativity, and also the fact that i didnt have any really close friends - i wondered if i might be demiro and just had such a small sample size of frienships that could feasibly be the baseline for attraction to form.... essentially that i hadnt met the right person yet :/ thankfully it wasnt long before i saw a comic that described knowing whether youve experienced attraction as looking for turtles in a pond (maybe the turtles are hiding, maybe they need to be lured out, maybe youre bad at identifying whats a turtle and whats a rock, maybe there are no turtles) and it said that ponds without turtles can still be complete ecosystems and that if you ever do find turtles you can rename the pond. that comic was what convinced me to embrace the label of aro, and if i was ever proven otherwise then i could relabel myself then a few years later i met and befriended a guy online over discord who would eventually become my boyfriend (and he introduced me to his polycule and i'm now partners with 2 other ppl) so at this point i ID as grey/demiro - im still not entirely?? sure if what i feel for my partners is romantic in nature, but were all arospec and we love each other and want to build a home together. and i dont know how i would feel if i didnt have them in my life anymore. how i would cope. because theyre the only ones ive ever wanted to build a life with like that. i can only hope that my first ever relationships can last (my boyfriend and i have been together 4 years by now, but all long distance, i havent visited him yet bc its a 2 thousand dollar international flight just to see him)
I'm demisexual and demiromantic and hearing that alone not alive segment broke me. I do want a relationship. I've been conditioned to the point that it's all that I want. But I just don't feel the attraction needed for that to happen. Sure, it's technically possible for me to feel that attraction and I have done in the past, but it's so so rare and this just put it all in perspective. I wouldn't want a relationship if the world hadn't told me that's all I should want. I could be so much happier and fulfilled if society wasn't this way. And because I know it might be possible to feel that attraction to someone else one day I'm going to continue to feel alone, not alive. Thinking about the slim chance I meet someone who triggers that response in me and makes my life truly "complete". And that's bullshit. Excellent video. Well done. Your words are so important in such a representation-starved community
Hey friend-- while you don't need relationships to be happy, I will say this: You don't need attraction to form a successful relationship! It's all about what "relationship" means to you. I've been "dating" my best friend for years, but neither of us to this day has had more than a flash of romantic interest in the other, if any (we're still discussing, since neither of us can really identify what romantic and sexual attraction IS... moreso we know what we DON'T LIKE and it's basically.... all conventional romantic relationships and sexual experiences are off the table, straight or normal, except for in very rare circumstances and with close friends and even THEN it's just for fun and bonding, and flirting is torturous). What we have is a very unique, cuddly friendship that occasionally gets steamy but usually not. The "dating" only started because we were pressured immensely from friends and family to change how our relationship works, and I cried my eyes out in a hallway because I needed to feel like I wasn't going to be abandoned by ANOTHER friend and he was about to move in to my guest room, so isn't that dating? We both grew up in very neglectful households, are both queer, and we had both looked at relationship as a "way out," of our sad, isolated lives. The friendship was already that escape, but it was harder to escape the guilt of thinking that we didn't "do romance" correctly we were going to be broken, lonely people... even though we knew we just wanted to spend our lives together, that we loved each other, but that we just put all of our emotional energy into and see it returned through our friendship-- and that's why it can be devastating to be exiled from friend groups, especually for just not wanting anything more than friendship and taking that more seriously than romantic or sexual relationships. I am happy to say that I love my partner very much, and he loves me, but it's a kind of deep kindness-and-smiles love that reminds me of old poems about friendship written with the same beauty and tact as one about a koi pond, or cherry blossoms, or a sunset-- not as seeing the other person AS a thing that evokes feelings of love, but as a person who can truly understand you enough to appreciate those things with you. I don't really mind sex and I find romance a bit inscrutable, but what I love is the feeling of being understood. And you CAN get that in a relationship, but it can ALSO come from friends, or family, or colleagues, or lots of other things. Find what you want and talk to other demisexual/demoromantic people about how to get it, or experiment with nontraditional relationships to see for yourself. But protect yourself. You DO have a right to connect to a person regardless of whether or not they can click some magic button in your brain to make you feel differently about them in heart-racey ways (how I think romantic attraction works-- idk, I usually think people are very drawable and nice conversationalists, not sexually or romantically appealing). You are gonna do fine. Or, you know... be like me like me and start out wanting to be everyone's chaotic single gay aunt, date people because of peer pressure, and end up sharing an apartment with someone who wants to also do that, but next to you, until one of you dies. Stressful to get there, but nice when it's over 👌🏽
I'm not aro, but I totally agree with your reading. I think they were trying to go for fear of commitment in the writing, but I think depending on the actor's performance something intended to come off as fear can be more akin to aversion, disinterest, or discontentment. It could be why this particular production is the one that resonated with David.
I thought the same. Which makes the finale even more crushing, because that marks the moment when an aro just gives up and conforms to expectations. I may have cried at that moment
My aro-ace experience involves fluctuating from viewing marriage as a financial commitment to romanticizing the idea of romance but feeling as though any love that comes myself can never be honest or correct.
the last song makes me feel like bobby is just caving in. he's not snapping out of anything, he's just snapping. just being crushed into the mould he's been told he needs to fit into.
Even as someone who experiences attraction, I'm perpetually sickened by society's obsession with romantic and sexual attraction, and am always searching out media that explores or at least focuses on other types of love. Thank you for putting your voice and your experience into the world.
Hey David, I just wanted to say, that I can feel for you. I'm a married heterosexual guy, but i always had trouble with intimacy through my entire life. Until I recently heard the term asexual i always thought my low interest in sexual interactions were just a side effect of me being an introvert. Now I slowly come to the conclusion that this might be the other way around. For me, the times we live in right now are my personal dream came true, except for this damn virus of course. Nobody who forces me into a family gathering, no garden party with endless small talk about things i don't care about, draining the life force out of my bones. I always wanted to be alone, but I can understand that other people see this kind of life to be depressing or lonely sometimes. At the end of part three of your video I noticed that you are quite emotional about that prospect and i wanted to let you know, that it is been noticed. I really hope the this pandemic will come to an end soon and we all can choose freely if we want to be in company or not.
You don't even want to know how many times I said "Yes! Exactly!" out loud while watching this. I could relate especially well to what you said about amatonormativity in part three. I'm an 18 year old ace, probably somewhere on the aromantic spectrum, and I don't want to get married or have children or any of that. Other people look at their future and see themselves with a romantic partner, getting married eventually, moving into their own place, having children. I try to look into my own future and I see... nothing. It doesn't help that I have social anxiety and am very bad at making friends, so I fear that without a romantic partner I will be completely alone.
I feel you buddy. But when I think about my future, I see a house full of dogs, cats and other critters. I think that's a better way of looking at things 😎
Ending up totally alone is the one thing I fear. I mean, i don't care if I get into a relationship or not, i'm clearly ace and most likely aro (until proven otherwise), but I value friendship A LOT. For now (i'm 20) I still have lots of friends. Well... lots of, maybe not, but at least two real friends who i see regularily and several others who I really like. I just hope they won't do like my parents and their friends and become more and more distant over time (and I probably won't help given the difficulties I have to reach up to them) But don't look only at that when trying to look at your future. Personnaly i see the possibility of building a house, projects about my studies and maybe a related job, finding more time for my hobbies, lots and LOTS of warhammer miniatures, this kind of stuff. I think having hobbies and activities that you like, whether those make you meet people or not, is one of the most important things in life if you're not going to have romantic relationships or whatever. Just realized my thoughts might seem a little messy but I leave it as is.
@@nessa-parmentier You're so right! Relationships don't have to define my life. For me, art and music is much more important, and I'm honestly excited to focus on that in the future.
Worse than “alone, not alive” is “married, not alive”. Being with someone who doesn’t see the humanity within yourself is degrading. Thanks for another wonderful video... as always, it’s given me a lot to think about. I’m stuck in a codependent relationship, but it helps me put things into perspective moving forward.
Your comments about being confused about what romantic feelings feel like resonated with me, though I don't think of myself as being on the asexual spectrum. For me the question is how to tell where the borders are between feelings of friendship, romance, and sexual desire. This has made my long delayed acceptance of being bi very confusing - and also I wonder if I might be demisexual. Heteronormative standards have always been painfully confusing to me - I've always felt radically out of touch. And now that I can say I'm queer and bi, I still have to figure out what that means for who I spend the rest of my life with, in a world that sees me as alien. Which I think is similar to what you talk about in this video.
I really appreciate that discussion of "was this a squish, was it romantic attraction, was it me crossing the wires because there's no way for me to _actually_ know what that is other than in an academic sense," because...that's really where I'm at right now in trying to figure out my identity. like, am I desperately clinging to the idea that i really want romantic partners because that's what's been harped at me for so long, or do i even feel that way, because i have no idea what the difference is between romantic and platonic love is, and the idea that someone would be like "well, we're just friends, i wouldn't want to date them, though," makes _no_ sense to me. like. i've basically been in this relationship with three of my friends for almost a year now, but are we close platonic friends, or is that romantic, and what's _actually_ that difference? i don't know. i just know i really appreciate this video you have, considering it rings very true to me and speaks alot of things that I feel and am vaguely going through as just the background radiation of my life.
Thank you so much for discussing the "straight timeline" here. This basicly is an accurate explanation of something that I have never really managed to put into words, something that a lot of my insecurities are rooted in. Even though it never was directly stated to me, there always was this feeling of "You should have kissed someone by now", "You should be dating", and so on. Creating this strange sort of feeling, that you might want something, let's say, a boyfriend, idk, sex, just because "it's normal to want that", while if I further investigate, I can't really say that I actually desire those things. This Video helped me a lot in understanding my world. :) To everyone, have a nice week^^
As an aro person (of the allosexual variety), who even thought I had myself mostly figured out this video really means a lot to me. I knew about heterotemporality and queer time and yet I hadn’t connected it to my own experiences and that whole bit with the “alone not alive” part really hit me hard. So thanks. It’s good having an a-spec creator out there.
And then there is the whole "i actually want to have all those things..." But allas, I am fucking ace and somehow don't feel the things that I am supposed to feel to get them..... So, yeah, thank you for this video, it totally destroyed me, but you are the first person I have seen so far describing these experiences I've also had. Yay! Confusion and missery in company. I'm gonna go keep crying now
Speaking as a pan-romantic asexual polyamorous child-free nearly-40-year-old virgin, THANK YOU! 🙏 Luckily one of my younger sisters has given my mum the grandchild she’s been wanting for years, so that guilt and weight is off my shoulders, but all the rest is still there. I feel blessed to have such an understanding and respectful partner now, but it’s not been - and is still not always - easy.
Honestly I'm so afraid that my friends are going to move away with their partners and I'm going to end up alone that having a relationship seems like the only way to have a live long close friend.
As an aro/ace person in my late 20s, everything about this video so incredibly relatable. The crushing pressure of the straight mind is exactly what I've been fighting internally, I just didn't know the word for it. Thank you for sharing
So much of this video really came for me as an aroace person, but this quote especially punched me right in the gut: "When Bobby caves to his friends' demands and starts begging for someone to love him" This isn't the point you were making right then (though you definitely touched on it in other parts of the video), but I took this a slightly different way-- "starts begging for someone to love him," in this case, not some hypothetical future partner, but his FRIENDS. It feels like he's not only begging for that hypothetical person to love him, but also saying "see? I'm doing what you want!!" in order to be assured of his friends' continued love and support. I might be projecting, but it speaks so viscerally to the experience I've had with friends who claim to understand and support my orientation but then later show that they've basically been thinking of me the same way Bobby's friends think of him--but just not saying so. And so much of their desire to fit me into that mold is BECAUSE they care for me--because it's the only thing they can see as happy and healthy, and they want me to be happy and healthy! But it's still deeply hurtful to find out that no matter how much you explained and they nodded thoughtfully and said "that makes sense" about what it means to be ace and aromantic over the years, they still put you in the mental category of "straight but shy" and as soon as you have a relationship that looks romantic (regardless of whether it is) they determine that 1. you are now on the path to happiness, finally, thank goodness and 2. you were "normal" all along (normal meaning straight and alloromantic/allosexual) and 3. this relationship must be the most important one in your life now. I was already happy! I'm still not straight! And this relationship is important to me, but not more so than the other deep and intimate friendships I have, many of which have lasted for far longer! And truly, it hurts, but more than once I've let that kind of thing go because I *do* want those friends to love me. I want to be cared about as I care about them. I'm pretty far along in my journey, out to most people, and very vocal about my orientation, but there are still times when I just...don't argue. Because I'm tired, and I want to be loved (just not romantically).
yo, you put into words my experience so well it took my breath away. now i feel sad and will re-evaluate my life choices. if they dont see and accept me for who i am, why would i want their love? but also, we've talked about it and she's trying to understand so. maybe i can wait for her to realize hetero romantic relationships aren't humanity's peak.
Sometimes I'll be reading a story and quite enjoying it and then the character will suddenly start showing an interest in someone else. I'll just think "oh, right. That's a thing. Sigh."
Wow. You have reached into my chest and clenched my heart tight. You did such a wonderful job of putting into words so many thoughts I’ve had over the years. I’ve loved Company for years and have also been grappling with my aroace identity for years. I’m pretty confident in being ace, but much like you with being aro I feel myself desperately clinging onto the idea of being grey or demi aro, anything that means that maybe one day I’ll find the right person and settle down into a relationship. But I would also like to offer some alternate readings of Being Alive, which is one of my favourite musical songs of all time. I think perhaps that in this queer reading of Company, Being Alive is Bobby’s final last ditch desperate effort to try and force himself to find comfort in a relationship, because I think even though he doesn’t want a relationship, he deeply, badly, desperately wants to want a relationship. Which I relate to hard. All the things that Bobby is singing about wanting ‘somebody hold me too close’ etc., are the things he wants to want. Maybe I’m projecting but it feels that Bobby is not just emotional in that last song, but he is angry, and mostly angry at himself. He is telling himself over and over again that this is what you should want! You should want someone to hurt you too deep! You should want someone to need you too much! What is wrong with you that you don’t! The words are a mantra of sorts that he is doing everything he can to get himself to believe that he truly wants them. I like to think that as he is repeating ‘being alive’ to himself over and over again before belting out that magnificent final one, rather than coming to the conclusion that being in a relationship is the pinnacle of being alive, he instead is perhaps starting to admit to himself that being alive is the ultimate goal in life, and that acknowledging your ‘being alive-ness’ to yourself is the first step in figuring out what you truly want aside from all the things that society projects and pressures onto us. This was wonderful video, thank you for your thoughts
There's also something really bothersome with the ideas not being married is the same as being alone. As if you can't have strong connection with friends or relatives. Sure, it is a different connection, but that doesn't makes them any less important.
I’m demisexual and this was so so validating to watch. I’m in a relationship now but I feel like I’m playing catch up in a game I never wanted to play. I spent 27 years learning to date myself, and I saw my family in horrible relationships just cause. Thank you for being vulnerable and shedding life on this.
"Learning to date myself" is the perfect description! I'm stuck with myself for the rest of my life, so I want to work on cultivating a healthy and fulfilling relationship with myself, instead of relying on external relationships that aren't guaranteed to last.
I'm also demisexual! I grew up in purity culture and WOW was it difficult to sort that out from my orientation! I relate hard to your description of "playing catch up," because I never dated until I was 33 and then went through a spiritual deconstruction/recalibration, started dating my first ever partner (a close friend from my dance group), got engaged, and started planning for a wedding, house and family within 18 months 😳 it's been a whirlwind! Amazing and wonderful but so so different from the entire rest of my life!
...god, I’ve not been so interested in this musical for precisely the same reasons as you - it’s the marriage musical. The most relatable thing about it to me was the “Not Getting Married” song lmao ...but as soon as I saw the thumbnail for this video, my mind was blown that this particular reading of it had never occurred to me. As if “Being Alive” wasn’t already a hard-hitting song, you’re out here making it even /more/ depressing. I’m not sure if I prefer it.
im just starting this video and i already love it. being a trans lesbian, when i saw that the west end revival featured a woman Bobby i was sooo excited! A lesbian bobby? in a post 'marriage equality' world when the character would have likely spent her formative years thinking that marriage wasnt an option for her??? Inspired!! Imagine my disappointment then, when they gender swapped all her partners :/ Thank you for the deep dive, i really appreciate the perspective.
IT'S TRUE THOUGH. Lesbian Bobby would be absolutely incredible. You keep the Amy->Jamie switch, so the desperation behind the Act 1 proposal suddenly becomes about succumbing to heteronormativity, and you bring queer marriage politics into the whole emotional arc. Why should queer people aspire to a heteronormative institution/ideal etc. etc. You could do SO MUCH with that. Like that's the beauty of Company, it's allegedly about a straight person but it becomes so. fucking. gutting. when you read Bobby as anything beyond a cis and straight.
Well, part three just hit me like a truck. You put into words things that I didn't know I wanted to say. I am Asexual and Aromantic myself and this constant pressure from society and my family is soul crushing at times. "We will support you if you bring home a boyfriend, but we wish it to be a girlfriend" this is what my mother said to me (and what my father nodded in agreement to). The Hetero- and autonomativity (as well as casual homophobia) that is everywhere in society makes me (and probably a lot of other queer people) feel that we are "broken" or "wrong" and it is so dangerous for our mental health to think that. I myself started to like how I looked after finding out what Aromantisism and Asexuality was, since then I had a label other then "broken" and "wrong". It feelt really comforting to see that there are others who are so uncertain with their own identity and who has a similar mindset as me. People who still cling to "I need to be straight, because I am supposed to be". People who might not be able to give guidence, but are able to show people that there are other just like them. Especially people not afraid to say it. David if you see this, you have helped me finding out a lot of myself and you have helped me accept myself a lot more then "someone who is always supposed to be right" ever have. Being like a textbook can give info about the existance of something, but being uncertain and documenting their way of finding out will give people guidence in finding out themself.
company always hits pretty hard for me specifically for the reasons youve mentioned. im 21, polyamorous, and alloaro (specifically pansexual aromantic). these may seem contradictory but the way i see it, if theres someone im attracted to, and we really connect, and they ask me out? cool yeah let's do this! in the end it's like being best friends for me, im just using a different word and really the only difference is sometimes we kiss and have sex. as long as they understand what i feel is different from what they feel, and i can never feel the same way they do, then i see no problem in labeling the relationship in that way. but every time i explain how i view relationships i always get people saying "oh youre young and experimenting" or even "thats sad, people your age shouldnt think like that" and so im faced with amatonormativity and heterotemporality REALLY hard and ALL the time. it's a really hard subject for me because in the end i have to ask myself, why am i even in those relationships? am i just trying to fit into a standard that wasnt made for me? am i THAT afraid of being alone? im just going with the flow and seeing what works, and what i have works for me, but it's neither what society wants from me or what youd expect a fully aromantic person to do. i can never fully know why i work like this, or if it's some form of compulsory amatonormativity, or stuff like that, and i wish i had easy answers for all of it to put my mind at ease.
I really hate the topic of love. It feels like the universe giving me the finger as every time i get comfortable, something has to remind me that romantic relationships will always matter more, like they matter more than me. Im grey aro/ace. I feel a few small things, but it means nothing to me. Like the boxes don't exist yet I'm still standing far between all of them. But also that I've fallen through the cracks that sit between them? I'm not very good at describing it. The 'made for each other' idea of love that people seem so desperate for is terrifying. Because if all that matters is "each other" then where's the room for me? I'll never have that, and I don't want what I do have to be taken by this villainous love. It kind of feels like your life-long enemy is being praised by the universe, all while it perpetually haunts you like a bitch. My friend isn't like me. She's not aro though perhaps somewhere on the ace spectrum. She loves. Like, a lot. For everyone, for the beauty in all humanity and everything that makes people themselves. It's so open, so endless and I've never loved love as much as I have hearing them talk about it. I thought I'd always hate love, and for the most part I still do. Always will. But her love? Yeah, I could believe in that. I don't know if it means much, and I'll never understand it, but I really do love open love. You sound like her, to me at least, if just switched around. You sound like you have a really beautiful situation that works for you, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. :)
I saw the thumbnail for this video and immediately knew EXACTLY what this video was going to be about, and you NAILED it. I saw Company a few years ago, when I was living on my own for the first time, and first coming to terms with the fact that I'm aroace. I loved it, but it left me feeling like I was staring into an abyss that was my future. Because on one hand, I knew that I can't *change* my aromantic nature, but on the other, the show itself seemed to imply that the only reason someone would be that way was because they weren't willing to form meaningful commitments. I've struggled for years to put words to the way that listening to Being Alive makes me feel, but you voiced them perfectly. On top of that, I feel like I understand my own reaction better. Thank you so much for this video, I loved it so much.
David, I almost never comment on videos, but I had to get something off my chest. The emotion you showed when you reiterated the shows sentiment for the final time, 'alone, not alive', absolutely gutted me. It is so sad that every aro person has to experience this, and I am not sure what to even begin doing about it. However, I feel like you are doing so much in creating a world that could grow increasingly closer to seeing the truth; that you are not broken because you do not long for romantic union. A lot of people ARE learning and that is partly because of you which is amazing. You are doing amazing work.
I'm so grateful for this channel. We definitely need more aro, ace, and aroace content in media. Otherwise we're ignored or invalidated. The possibility of an ace identity needs to come up in people's minds when they consider someone who's not straight (rather than seeing people as either straight or gay). People should know what ace means and acknowledge its existence.
I never realized how much I needed other Ace experiences in my life. I cried through the whole video. I struggle so much with wanting a connection I fear I'll never have.
Your take of Raul's version of Being Alive is exactly what I was feeling when I first found the song. And you're right, it's hard to redefine your expectations in life when you're on the aroace spectrum, but we're more connected and less "alone" than people think.
Great video! I liked all the talk about "straight time." It's really no joke how much pressure family and friends can put on you for dating or getting married. Every year the screw turns a little more. I've definitely been there myself with just wanting someone with a title of "boyfriend" so people will leave me alone. I've never dated anyone or had sexual experiences (as a mid-twenties person) and especially in college I would panic about it as my friends all started to couple off. I've walked into rooms filled with young people and been the only person who isn't married or in a relationship. I decided years ago that being in a romantic relationship wasn't for me, and dealing with expectations has gotten easier with practice and mental fortitude, but I still have doubts even now that my life won't be "fulfilled" if I "found my other half." The point is you're not alone in your experiences and (as unhelpful as this is), hang in there!
Same, I am nearly 30, and I had no sex, no (romantic) relationships, and no job either. And obviously no kids, but I am an uncle, which I find far more gratifying (having my extended Pokemon knowledge making me look like the coolest adult is pretty great ngl) Now, my friends aren't married either (partly because all those concepts like heteronormativity implies able bodied and mind.), so I don't have pressure on that part. Still, what I consider a rather fulfilling lifetime is seen as less than worthless by society. It's a strange feeling.
The Raúl Esparza production was the one I came across first, and it sparked much the same feelings in me - I found it so difficult to reconcile the place Bobby gets to in Being Alive with my experience of the rest of the show. Thank you for putting this into research and words - a truly brilliant video and (to me, at least) *very* important!
Great video! I appreciate you opening up about the confusing mess being acesexual can be. You question everything about yourself, and of course the looming threat of being alone, that friends will move on, and you have no one left. It's a very real fear, and it is amazing to hear someone else expressing similar fears to mine.
As an aro person, I cannot express how comforting it was so see someone put words to the frustration I felt relating to Bobby's anxiety over not being romantically "where he should be" and trying to convince the people around him that marriage isn't what he wants for so much of this show and then seeing how the end of Being Alive imply that he "solved the problem" of him feeling that way by just giving in and opening himself up to romantic love. The first time I watched the show, I for sure felt the weird mix of affection and contempt for Being Alive and I just couldn't place my finger on why. And even though I logically know that I don't need to subscribe to the values of hetero and amatanormativity, sometimes I just need to hear that directly from someone who understands. Thank you
This whole musical and video hits different when you thought you were hard aromantic when it turns out it was more of a spectrum for you. Because how you're going through the hoops, falling in love, sharing your life, getting engaged and getting (cat) babies, and does this make you a better person, a more complete person? No. Never. But I wish people in my life would stop seeing me like that, it feels very bitter to think that my truth, my happiness comes to question when it does not jump through hoops that say, "this is the way for ultimate happiness!" It was heartbreaking when my mother told me how happy she was for me, because she thought I'd end up alone, that I was lonely. What does that even mean?
This video resonates with me so much. I know in my head that being in a relationship isn't the only way to be happy, but I feel so alone when society shoves amatonormativity in my face. On Valentines Day, being single is treated as something that you need to feel bad about or cover up. Being aromantic is treated as being immature or attention-seeking. Even queer readings of things like Company leave me feeling invisible because of course gay relationships deserve more representation, but the possibility of being aromantic or asexual is left out altogether. This video honestly makes me tear up every time I watch it. Thank you so much.
This really, really makes me think of a song that came out last Year. "Death Rattle" by The Prize Fighter Inferno. "Stand here waiting for, while death comes knocking at my door, someone who won't let go, can't let go, of me." But then the climax of the song concludes _"And so it reads, not everybody needs someone. It's okay to be alone, son."_
Well, that was a lot more confronting than I thought - thank you for articulating so many things that are always floating in my head, but never really crystalise in a coherent form. During these trying times I keep coming back to Company, a small comfort when friendships are so far away physically. Some rambling incoherent thoughts on the ending: eventually I land on the positive side because the ending stays just vague enough. The piece doesn’t really end with phenomenal ‘Being Alive’, but with the recurring birthday party. However, this time Bobby isn’t there. When his friends leave, he finally manages to blow out the birthday candles. I always read that as Bobby starting some kind of road to self-discovery without his friends and their restricting and oppressive notions of marriage - what that is exactly is remains unclear. Anyway, keep up the good work!
been grappling with my romantic identity for a little while now and a lot of this video really hit hard for me. I feel so muddled all the time, it's really difficult to tell what I'm feeling and it's even harder to tell if I can or can't feel a certain way, since I have no idea what I'd be looking for. I know that I have felt... _something_ towards a handful of people in my life, but if that was really romantic attraction or not I really cannot begin to tell. and recently on some level part of me has started to worry that I would end up truly alone, even if in truth that doesn't make much sense
I grew to appreciate Happily Ever After, the song that was in Being Alive's place which ended on a much more cynical and ambivalent note towards marriage, more. That song is peak Sondheim passive aggressiveness and it slaps.
wow, that really opened my eyes. I realise you don't need be in relationships and do things just because it's 'what people do'. And it's ok to be alone, having a boyfriend for the sake of it is not a way to fix your life. You can have meaningful relationships without them being romantic. Gosh, if i had realised this stuff a few years earlier it could have saved me a lot of trouble. Thank you so much.
Wow! So much resonated with me here! Im Angled Aroace (on both the ace-spec and aro-spec), but I still have a really hard time defining how I partially do, or don't, experience some form of romantic attraction. I love the idea of romantic love (in film and fiction) but it's just not something I seem to feel/want 'properly' in real life. Ugh ... So confusing! Amatanormativity definitely makes things difficult to figure out!!! Some times I think I feel romantic attraction, then the next day the thought of a romantic relationship is a big ol' NO. So the labels Aroflux and Aegoromantic feel a good fit at the moment. I also find Identifying with alterous attraction as also useful when you feel something beyond platonic, but something that's not entirely romantic either ... Like the grey area between the two.
What a lovely explaination, I myself am struggling with similar things and this will be the thing I look into next. I love how this community is sooo educational.
@@gingerbean2406 Aww, thank you. I think because it's difficult to define romantic attraction, it's a lot harder to figure out where you lay on the spectrum. I'm still trying to figure this out too, but learning the differences between the forms of attraction definitely helps (e.g. aesthetic, physical, emotional, intellectual, sensual, alterous, platonic). Best of luck on your Aro journey of discovery! 💚
It would be nice if non-a/greyromantic people would also take note of this stuff, not only to help out others but to also see how amatonormativity hurts them to. Both in fiction and reality, romantic coupling is seen as such an endgame that it is considered both acceptable and even responsible to eject everyone else, or at least distance them, leaving those who don't fall into that alienated by people who they thought were close friends. I have often seen people shamed for feeling rejected or depressed when their closest friends got together with each other and then sort of cut that friend mostly out of their lives. That friendships are something we are supposed to just get over and not have at a certain point. Gee I wonder why it's so hard to make friends as you get older?
Thanks for persisting in your endeavor. Your work is what I needed in my darkest times and even now it brings me solace knowing that there are people with the same questions, same struggles. I never had words and even a framework to describe this world in a such manner. Thank you for introducing a new way forward and that there is even one.
I was at a cocktail party a three years ago, and friend was elated to say he had been cast as Bobby in a local production of Company. Another friend, a gay man, casually mentioned the idea of reading Bobby as queer, and was immediately met with "Does everything have to be read as queer now? Are we all going to paint over the masterpieces of the past with our own takes?" He backed down, and thus I had no idea what he was talking about. Until tonight, that is. I sent him a link and cannot wait to hear what he has to say about your thorough and compelling interpretation, which to me, make a lot of sense (and I am a straight, married father). Frankly, I don't know if I can see Bobby any other way now. Thank you for a great video, and for your much appreciated candor. I wish you happiness in whatever form it takes.
Hey David! I’ve been watching your videos for a while and I’m not typically one for comments but I just wanted to drop in and say how much I appreciate this video. All of last year I was having a super similar fight with myself and a lot of the ways you talked about aromanticism connected with me in a way I can’t really even explain. I’ve NEVER heard anyone else think about these things in the exact same way and it was just so comforting. Most of the pressure I feel is internal but that way you talk about it, even and especially the painful parts, makes me feel a lot less alone. Thank you thank you thank you, I will definitely be rewatching this video next time I’m feeling that special kind of sad
once more, i feel like this is truly the channel which most helps me relate, on a personal level, on issues relating to love beyond sexuality. thank you deeply for that. finally i understand the concept of heterotemporality!! abby thorns video didnt really explain that well enough imo. i have thought so, so many times how much of an outsider, a failure i am for not having the typical teenage experience -getting drunk, trying drugs, losing my virginity, going to parties, experimenting, having my heart broken, be absolutely in love with someone, etc. i have told so many fellow film school classmates who gave me their scripts to revise that, as much as i can help them, that experience theyre so focused on telling, the one of a young adult life in which one goes from party to party having sex and losing friends and maturing and stuff, all that is not my experience. i have asked them to consider, have you ever thought that maybe thatd not the only experience? and only got weird looks back. feeling like sex terrifies me, but feeling strong crushes on people of all genders, while still being able to register those crushes as very deep friendship bonds that i just, just wish could allow me to receive affection in a more intimate level -i long for hugs, for cuddles, for kisses on my head, for the sort of familial affection i no longer receive as an adult. i can see bobbys desperation to not be alone and relate to that, so much... i always think of that scene in the latest littke women movie, in which jo tells her mother about how much she wants to marry laurie, even if she doesnt love him. she doesnt want to be alone. what do you do when friendships are dissolved like sugar in water, and youre expected to settle down? what does it say about you as a person, to never have been loved in the way society deems true and significant? i was obsessed, and still am, with the movie Corpse Bride (i made a video essay on it and all). its perspective on marriage, and the way it can be interpreted, still fascinates me. and, because of that, ive written (for it to probably never be staged) a theater version of it that takes into account the reality of marriage in the late 1800s, how it was both an arrangement of economic and social nature, and how it became more and more an idealized conclusion to a love story. in my interpretation, the three main characters rush or escape marriage, doubting each choice they make, as they realize that what they truly want is understanding. the corpse brides only identity is as a wife: no matter the groom, she only knows that she cannot be alone. because, as sondheim as said: to be alone is to not be alive. thats how it feels, as awful as it may be. thank you again for this video. its always a delight to watch your analysis, as niche as they may be. (also wait. is the 2006 bobby that other psychiatrist from hannibal????????)
Thank you for the nice comment, but mainly I have to ask is your profile picture the animals of gosh darn farthing wood? Because that is a nostalgia landslide.
I was assigned to watch a version of Company for a theatre homework assignment and I couldn’t put my finger on why I hated the musical. This explains pretty much everything (other than I just don’t really like musicals). I’m ace and mostly aro. The ending to the musical doesn’t feel like a happy ending. It feels like someone finally bending to pressure and vowing to marry someone if it will make him a full person in the eyes of the friends he cares about. It sounds like someone throwing their authentic self away because that’s the only way they can be truly alive.
As an Ace who's dating someone(mutually happy I believe :)), I still believe my ideal life is living alone/without a relationship. I want you to know that your views on relationships are valid and there are others who feel the same
Found this through the algorithm, likely in the wake of Sondheim's passing as I've been injecting Company videos into my veins like some sort of eulogical drug. This is my favorite Sondheim musical, one that is deeply ingrained into my artistic identity and really helped me understand the value of conceptual and non-explicitly-linear storytelling. On a deeper level, as someone who was very lonely in my early teens and convinced I wasn't interested in a relationship or with love, I saw a character right in front of me who found a sort of catharsis moment in admitting to himself that he truly *does* want these things, all while observing several incredibly stark and subversive observations about the constructs of relationships and marriages and how, ultimately, all you need is the connection with somebody. That is what lies at the heart of it. My reading is obviously very different from yours, but I found a lot of value in hearing your take on it. I'm a mostly straight guy so it can be very easy for me to shrug off queer readings of the text simply because I want it to fit in my own little box. But this video was so raw and personal and had so much interesting theory, really well backed up by selections from the show. It honestly has me re-evaluating the show and its queerness. It feels so much more inherent to the piece now. So, thank you for making this video and thank you for really showcasing a unique reading of the musical, from one Company fan to another.
god, you really took my heart out of my chest and made me look at it with this video! I've recently realized I'm somewhere on the aroace spectrum myself, and I feel this ache at feeling like I'm missing out on some great, big something. because romance and sex is so hyped up, because that's the goal of life, right? but recently, especially during this pandemic and after an awful breakup and realizing that I was just performing romance, I realized...hey. I don't have to be chasing my tail. love in any form is love. friends can be enough. society just sweeps them all to the side like our friends are just stepping stones to some great soulmate love. but my best friends are my soulmates, I've realized. we love each other to death. friends *matter*. it's hard for me to put into words exactly how much they mean to me. this is getting a bit rambly, but this video is like you took my feelings and put them on a screen for 44 minutes. all I can say is FRIENDS ARE SO DEEPLY IMPORTANT AND LOVE YOU SO MUCH!! ITS NOT ALL ROMANCE! apologies for the caps, but they felt necessary
as a teenager who knows absolutely nothing about life yet, it is really encouraging to see adults feeling the same things i do. your whole presence is so validating. knowing that confusion and nervousness isn't unique to me, and my identity isn't just some immature teenager thing fills me with so so much comfort and validation. so thank you for doing what you do, and thank you for being an imperfect human. it really means the world to me 💚
Thank you for making this David. I've been obsessed with this musical since the beginning of music since October and I thought I was the only one that saw Bobby in an Aromantic light. This musical has a profound effect on me & I loved this video. Keep up the good work! - An Asexual/Aroflux Fan.
Clearly the TH-cam algorithm has failed me, considering that I'm a Steven Sondheim (and Sherlock Holmes) obsessed leftist aromantic asexual and I'm only discovering your channel now. Excellent stuff. Company is also one of my favorite musicals that I strongly disagree with (Passion comes to mind also). I agree also that I didn't love it until I saw the Esparza version. Company is so strange in that every production seems like a completely different musical with a different meaning. Your section about the pressures of reaching milestones upsetting you despite being comfortable with your identity gave voice to a lot of shit I've been working through in my first year as a 30 something, thank you.
Another famous Sondheim song famously goes, 'No one is alone.' While I too have a deeply personal commitment to Being Alive, No One is Alone is to me the greatest song Sondheim has ever written. You are not alone. Believe me, no one is alone.
thank you for creating this content. I mean, rly. Thank you so much. And for having the courage to present yourself as vulnerable. Its refreshing to know that not everybody "got it figured out". I do feel like most things in my life comes with some 10 year delay in the topic of romantic and sexual and even social development, so thank you for pointing that out too. Its somehow validating.
This video made me cry. I grew up Mormon, and the expectation to date and get married that is forced on you, along with amatonormativity from mainstream society, made it extremely hard for me to accept that I was aroace, especially aro. It's something that I still struggle with. Knowing that there are other people out there, who feel the same way I do, makes me realize that I'm not alone and I'm not broken. Thank you so much for this video. I can barely express my gratitude in words.
This video really hits hard. The hard bit about feeling little romantic attraction and being very repulsed to sex is you hear songs about love and sex on the radio. Especially if you come out. I've been told "You might find someone!" As much as I honestly do desire a romantic relationship it's also never been my focus. Thank you so much. - a fellow grayro ace
Thank you! It's my 37th birthday in 3 days and I feel really stressed about "not having done anything with my life". I'm also really broody since my sister gave birth 2.5 years ago which is not helping. I had never hear of straight time - using that my life experiences probably put me at 14 - 16. This totally explains why I feel so strongly about having 'wasted my youth/life'.
I turn 35 this year and I totally understand this! I made a huge step forward in my career this year, but it really feels insignificant compared to my brother, who is now father of 2 kids ...
man that bit about not even being sure if what you felt before was romantic attraction hit HARD. i've been with my boyfriend for two years and i love him a lot and want him in my life forever, but i still doubt every so often if it's truly *romantic* cause the line between that and platonic has always been muddled for me :/
The 2006 production is hands down the best recorded production of this musical. The minimalist aesthetics allows the relationship between characters to take center stage. No spectacle! Lots of tension through acting. So good! Great analysis. I think its also an interesting that sondheim has never been married himself. So the hetero normative emphasis on marriage is peculiar because he also identifies as a gay man.
I appreciate this kind of video so much. It's so easy to just fall into patterns of thought that dehumanise others and now I have another thing I can show people to make clear what I mean when I talk about cisheteronormativity. Great work, David and thank you so much!
part three is so powerful, I caught myself reflecting every word you said in there and it does put a lot of stuff into perspective, so much, the fears and insecuirities I feel in the lowest of lows. It is nice to know that I am not alone, that quite a lot of people feel the same way, as depressing as it actually is
I tend not to post much, but tonight I'm moved to. I've watched this video a fair few times since you've released it. You talk about a particular perspective that I think is widely not discussed, if not ignored outright. I've a similar love/hate relationship with this musical. My first experience with this show was whilst playing the low reed book for my university production. I didn't know I was aro/ace at the time, but I knew I was somehow different than my peers; I found myself identifying a lot with Bobby throughout the initial rehearsals. The first night, after running the whole show in performance order for the first time, whilst sitting in the pit and hearing that last number, I recall asking our conductor "What happens to Bobby? Is the last song a suicide note?" The confused horror on the faces of the rest of my ensemble told me I'd arrived at a wildly different conclusion of the plot than they all did, but - at the time - what was the other alternative? I still remember that performance, those words, "Alone, not alive". I am much more comfortable with me and my life now, but I will never not weep to this show both in anger and understanding. Thank you for putting into words what's taken some years to express.
Thank you for making this video, and for all the vulnerability and effort that must have gone into it. I found it hit very close to home, but every piece of media like this out there makes it that bit easier to articulate the aro/greyro/queer experience, as well as a future for yourself when the timeline straight-time lays out for you just doesn't fit. It's honestly cruel that it's this hard to articulate that, but I'm glad it's not something I have to face by myself.
I know, I know I'm late. This video is fantastic. Raw and vulnerable, deep and compelling. I've been out as asexual for about a half-decade (30yo cis female) but only after my most recent and first relationship, did I start to wonder if I am somewhere on the aromantic spectrum and feel grey-romantic fits. I can turn off romantic attraction to anyone who is unavailable (almost the opposite of Bobby because competition over a person is asinine to me) and the attraction is rare and fades ridiculously quickly. I could never hold a crush for more than a month. When people ask me what I want in a partner, I always name extremely practical and boring things, almost like I just want a friend who is pretty to share my life with and maybe kisses me on the forehead and hold my hand sometimes. And while I DO want a version of marriage in my own life, "attraction" requirements be damned, the whole "straight time" thing really affects me, especially as a woman with our pressure to mate and have children. This musical is pretty important to me and it breaks my heart that it's hurt you so much. Though, I can respect why. I saw the 2007 Tony Awards where Raul Esparza performed "Being Alive" and even as a child it was burned in my brain. The pain of it. My queer reading of "Being Alive" are that even though people get married to feel close enough to someone to get that aliveness, Bobby didn't need marriage to feel that way. In the first song, the title of the musical, "Company" brought him joy, brought him fulfillment, through his friends. Because "that's what it's really about, isn't it?" Not necessarily partnership, just connection. I like to think that Bobby realizes he had that all along. Bobby's friends 100% are straight-minded assholes, don't get me wrong. But in finally "getting it" I like to think Bobby could finally let it go. Like, that's it. That's the thing. That's the thing we all want. Just...being alive. And he's been so hung up over this marriage thing (the idea of what he's supposed to do) that he has been doing the opposite. And I hope that gives him the courage to search for his own aliveness not through marriage but in a way that is authentic to him. "Alone is Alone not Alive" is kind of an ongoing discourse Sondheim was having with himself about aloneness like "No One is Alone" in Into the Woods which is partly about parents passing down trauma to their kids. I don't really see alone here as "single" I see it as...alone. Robert spends the musical as an observer. He isn't engaging with his life because he doesn't really know what he's supposed to do. "Another Hundred People" is about a City of Strangers that "find each other" and then go home. I think Bobby, surrounded by company, is lonely. A lot of adults struggle to make genuine friends. He supposes marriage must be an answer, but it isn't. Aliveness is the answer. That's just how his friends found it, but it may not be for him. Idk I don't necessarily think the song is about romantic love so much as it is...love. His friends that sign all his birthday cards "with love" don't really love him. Or maybe they don't think that their love could possibly be enough for him. Maybe both. But I guess I just think that because the show isn't called "Marriage" it's called "Company." The company you keep. I'm hopeful for Bobby to go out there and find real friends to be alive with and then go home to be alive by himself. Thank you for sharing your story. I know it might be silly of me to be optimistic considering the very real compulsory heteronormativity we face every day, but at least here with an open ending I can hope for a little light. I wish you the best, friend and please post more musical reviews because there aren't really enough perspectives on TH-cam about the nerdy "theatre kid" ones. :)
I'm very comfortable with both my gender identity and being asexual. I've pretty much given up on trying to give a label to my 'romantic' identity. Mostly because I still do not understand what people mean when they talk about having romantic feelings. Some people have told me this indicates I am aromantic. However, I am married and I am also in a poly relationship with another person and have been in poly relationships before. I definitely feel like there is some connection to my wife and partner that is different to the one I have with people I'd call friends - but I can't explain what that connection is.
I am in the same boat. I have no idea what "romance" is or what it's meant to feel like. I'm poly as well and all of my partners began as friends who I eventually become close enough to to want them in my life longterm. I can't figure out where this nebulous romance comes into. I don't know if this makes me aro or not, but I suppose it doesn't matter.
Who else is having their 1st Valentine's Day after realising that being Aromantic was a thing?
Got myself some candies BEFORE they went half price, just to let me know I care.
Pro strat
Same here, the high of thinking I had my identity worked out back in December was gradually wearing off as my excitement in consuming ace media faded. And the onset of Valentines day, the realisation that everyone close in my life had a partner, made me realise just how much I didn't fit, and just how much I now need to keep from outing myself.
I'm unsure whether it's worth coming out, the lack of awareness protects ace people from being hassled about being "fixed", but at the cost of never quite feeling like a full human experience. There's only so much self care can do.
Yup, 1st valentines since figuring I was aroace. I focused on pal-entines instead, because platonic love is just as valuable as romantic love.❤
This is my first Valentine's since getting past the fear that I wasn't really ace! Now I'm trying to figure out if I'm aro or something else, so hopefully I'll be able to mark 2022 Valentine's as the first for however that turns out.
I have felt really isolated with my only now realizing I am sure.
Laughing off the idea of being gay like it's a weird abstract concept that you definitely can't be is the gayest way to deny being gay.
@Keighen Snavely I was raised believing that people who identify as anything other than what they were born as were just trying to get attention or they hate themselves. Because I was raised believing that and I didn't hate myself or want attention I assumed I couldn't possibly be anything else. After struggling with the fact that I didn't want to be in a relationship or have sex like everyone else I finally discovered the terms Asexual, Aromantic, and Non-Binary Demigirl and that there are other people like me that I've realized those beliefs are wrong.
My sister used to date this one guy who insisted that they weren't gay. One of the reasons he gave was that his ass was so tight that if you stuck anything in there it would have turned into a diamond. I don't remember the events since I was 3 or something at the time of this happening, but either my sister and him broke up because he did came out or after they broke up, he came out as gay.
@@jayquillberry4972 I was raised as a devout catholic. It was actually me failing to defend Trump that kickstarted my revelation. I realized that I couldn't trust everything my parents told me. I did some research and unwillingly became an agnostic (later, upon finding Aron Ra, I finally accepted that I was an atheist despite getting my communion literally the year before). The next year, I met a girl. We were close, held hands, cuddled, always in physical contact with each other. Then I moved away. I never felt any attraction to her, but I retroactively tried to justify our closeness, and she was my best friend, closer than any of my other best friends, and I'd never heard of a QPR, so I hesitantly identified as Bi, desperately trying to justify my relationship with her. I'd heard of Pan at the time, but thought that nonbinary people were fake, so I decided not to use it. I struggled for a little while before coming out to my brother and dad, to positive reception (though I still can't tell if my dad was trying to one up my mom or if he was genuinely supportive). I quickly realized that I was definitely ace. In a spur of the moment decision, on Christmas eve, I told my sister I was bi, and she then outed me to my mom. She said I was going to hell. I tried to placate her by telling her that I was ace so I wouldn't do any "sinful things", she didn't listen and I honestly don't know why I thought that would work. Now, she's convinced it was a phase. It wasn't, I just learned that I couldn't trust her or my sister with anything anymore. I did some research into nonbinary people after hearing a lot about it and finally realizing that I needed to readjust all my views because religious indoctrination definitely had an impact, and I acknowledged that they were a thing, changing my label to Pan, but not telling anyone because of embarrassment at being wrong and because my brother claimed that nonbinary people were fake and I didn't want to lose him because he's the only family member I tolerated (even though he was getting more entitled and conservative as time went on.) I did more research into nonbinary people, realized that their experiences were eerily similar to mine. I was an egg for a while, before realizing that supressing my gender would not go down well. I jumped around labels and eventually settled on Agender; even if it never felt quite right, it was the label I held the longest before coming to the conclusion I hold today. After that, I started struggling with the fact that everyone seemed to have crushes on strangers and celebrities and I just didn't, despite having gone through puberty. My mom even claimed that she got super horny around her period, something I've simply never experienced (though that's pretty much irrelevant, because it only solidified my Asexuality). I did some introspection and realized that all my previous "crushes" were all on people I was good friends with, so I took on the label "Demi". That settled for the moment, I went back to looking for a fitting gender label and found Trigender. See, genderfluid never quite fit because I switched between combinations of male, female, and agender, which made identifying a specific switch much harder unless I actively monitored my unconscious clothing choices/preferences and pronoun preferences(though that was harder to track), Trigender allows for you to be all three genders at once, or to switch between them or any combination of them at any time. So while genderfluid and Trigender both fit, I settled for Trigender because it made more sense (even if I find the flag kinda ugly ngl). I use they/them pronouns because the gendered pronouns cause more dysphoria if I happen to not be male or female at the time and, as I said, my switches are hard to track, so preventing that through giving specific pronouns I want is harder. That fully, finally, settled, I decided to take a risk and come out to my nonbinary-denying brother, because he was the most accepting person in my family(which isn't saying much because he's still a dick). It went about as well as expected: I told him I was nonbinary, knowing that telling him my specific label would weaken my argument, I pulled out all sorts of resources, and he still offered to debunk my gender. If he didn't believe me, the rest of my family is a lost cause. My mother is homophobic, my dad is abusive so even if he accepts me I won't be happy, my sister is following in my mom's footsteps, and my brother thinks I'm a tomboy that wants attention. I kind of already knew it, but that was the final nail in the coffin, so I'm firmly in the closet and will remain as such until I'm no longer dependent on my mom's finances, and nothing will change that now. Later, while reading a GreyAro acceptance post on Tumblr, I happened upon the term "Queerplatonic Relationship," which I'd only briefly heard and read about in the discussion of a fanfic that I didn't bother reading. I watched one video on it, found it weird. Ignored it. Later, out of boredom, I read on it a little more, and decided to read the fanfic I'd ignored. Then, my mind was blown: it was exactly what I wanted. No kissing or sex, just cuddling, closeness, no expectation of marriage (though the option is always there), and just being really close best friends. I did some reflecting and realized that my past crushes were mostly because someone was cool and I wanted to spend time with them more than anything else, even if they were already my best friends. Though one stuck out. Jenny. We were really close, holding hands, cuddling, everything I wanted.
She was my zucchini, whether I knew it at the time or not. I didn't have a crush on her, I was simply trying to justify something that I found "wrong" and ever since then, I've realized that I was Aro. I'm still not sure if I'm Asexual or Apothisexual, I seem to ride a midline between them. Perhaps I'll find a term, maybe I won't, but as it stands, I've gone through years of reflection to figure myself out. My mom saying that I'm going to hell won't stop me, and my brother saying I'm delusional won't either.
TL;DR: I went through quite the journey and am satisfied with the progress I've made in understanding myself. Even if the labels turn out to be inaccurate, they still helped me on my journey, so I shouldn't be ashamed of the winding road I'm walking.
@@Error403HRD I don't think I can ever come out to my family. Probably never will. Even when I imply how I feel my mom and my sibling would tense. My mom is also concerned that going to school to pursue a degree in psychology will turn me "liberal". I always have to deny it because I don't think I can tell them.
That was the scene that convinced me Bobby was gay.
As a disabled person who spent years believing that a romantic relationship was not in the cards for me due to both my disability and graysexuality,(and is currently celebrating 10 years with my partner) friends can absolutely hold the same power as romantic love. You can see signs of love in the way your friends hold themselves, in their grace and their silly moments. You can see it in the way they care for you and you care for them. You can feel it in the way their touch feels and the protection you feel to be able to be vulnerable. All the other stuff (sexuality, sleeping in the same room/house etc) can be worked out if the person is right for you and the foundation is strong.
I found out what asexual was in the late 2000’s by googling, “I never want to get married ever.”
This video hits close to home.
Back when I was in college, there were alternate parties on February 14 for people who didn't have romantic partners: "Singles Awareness Day" (SAD -- ha, ha. Get it? ~sigh~). I now want to rename it: "Beyond Amato-Normativity Day," so people can invite their friends to a to a party (when that's a thing again) by asking: "Hey, wanna join my BAND?" ~wink~ Never underestimate the power of a good pun.
November 11th is Singles Day in China (get it, because 11/11). It's basically like Valentine's day but corporations can capitalize off single people instead of couples.
@@squashfei8907 A while back (10 years? 15? What is time?) an individual tried to get a trend of "monster day" started -- where the day after Valentine's, the "celebration" would be to buy a bunch of now discount candy that's left over, cook a healthy meal with lots of veggies (for balance), and watch monster movies, and draw pictures of monsters, and send monster-themed greeting cards. This is something I could get behind. But unfortunately, one person's endeavors wasn't enough to start a trend, and it fizzled out after about three years.
@@CapriUni Happy monster day
@@squashfei8907 Hee! Thank you. You, too (rawr).
Why isn’t this a thing already lmao
As an aromantic asexual person, I think I speak for many people when I say we’re super glad to have you in the arospec community!!! Take your time to find a label that works for you! If greyromantic works, then that’s lovely! Also you get the wonderful privilege of saying “no romo” when you compliment someone! Love you (no romo though)! :)
Your profile looks pretty! No romo 😊
omg 'no romo' is the best thing i've heard all day
incredible. outstanding, show-stopping.
I’ve been using no romo with my friends for ages. This is the first time I’ve be er heard anyone else use that. Is it actually a common thing in the arospec community? I never really interact with other aros. Am I missing out on lots of amazing aro puns?
@@kristine5561 It’s kind of a thing in the community, yeah
"Seeing people around me who are in relationships and in love and have that kind of connection... it makes me really terrified of being alone."
I have never felt so seen before. I'm so scared of becoming isolated as all my friends marry off and have families; I don't want to come home to an empty house for the rest of my life. Being completely alone like that is terrifying.
That's exactly how I feel ...
Mood, I always feel like my friends will eventually move on from me when they have families and we all go separate ways because friends aren’t supposed to be as tightly connected to you as a romantic partner. Romantic partners, if they don’t break up with you ofc, will most likely stay with you and be by your side no matter where your lives lead you while friends can just disappear and it’s normal not to see them in long periods of time
I kinda do want to come home to an empty house for the rest of my life, but I can definitely relate to the terrifying feeling of being abandoned or left behind by friends who seems to go on living completely different lives as the get married and have kids. I also sometimes start wondering if it’s even appropriate for me to hang out with them anymore because I might be “too immature” to relate to them now.
@@kristine5561 mood, sometimes I’m like is it okay or am I too clingy if I want to spend all my time w/ them while they are „just“ my friends which is supposed to be less important than romantic relationships or family or even stuff like work
David, I have no way to explain to you how grateful I am for this video. I'll be 28 years old and I too have never been in a romantic/sexual relationship. Last time I went on a date, and it has been years, at the end, I was basically begging for the other person to not kiss me, I was terrified. I identify as greyace since I was 20, and I remember how relieved I felt to find a label that fit better than the others, but as years passed... And some violence I suffered... I... It feels more like a sentence now, of endless solitude. And I don't know.
Anyway, I feel more human to hear someone else talk about this, especially from someone I admire.
40 here, single and I haven't had a relationship in about a decade. I am not particularly looking for one. I am generally bad with deeper connections with other humans. The constant pressure to not be alone is grating.
As someone on the spectrum, I definitely get that.
Finally! Another non-aspec or allo person who understands that having romantic or sexual attraction doesn't mean you have to end up in a relationship. Inherently, everyone doesn't need a relationship. Individually, a person may need a relationship... or not, and that's okay either way! People need to really think for themselves. They must ask themselves if they really need *this* or they just think they need *this* because society expects them to need it. You can be allo, have had a love life and still live the rest of your life alone. That can be okay as what matters is whether or not you're lonely while being alone. One can be alone without being lonely. That's cool. As the opposite, some aros/arospecs (like me, for example) may want to romantically date someone even with a lack of attraction. I'm demi specifically, so for me, I date people with a lack of attraction because I expect to have romantic attraction for the person later. That's cool too. Thanks for your comment, pal!
I'm turning 40 this year and wondering if my 2 previous relationships were any more than attempts to blend in.
@@sharonoddlyenough I honestly wondered the same thing when I first learnt about aro/ace ideas. In retrospect, I dont think it applies to me but I understand questioning things.
@@cmmosher8035 I think I'm not ace, but demisexual fits me pretty well. I've had crushes, but only after I knew them a while, and very few too. I'm relaxed about the whole thing, never really wanted kids. No relations of any kind until my 20's. I'm somewhere on that spectrum for sure, anyways. Eh, now I sound defensive. Still figuring this out.
making up a fictional person to be fake-in love with is the most aromantic thing i've ever heard, lmao. i remember choosing a random person to want to marry in high school just because they were nice to me once
yeeeeees I did that as one of my OC's, Emerald. Now that I know I'm aro... I'm making her aro too!
@@goldegreen bless you and bless emerald!!! love this so much
Lmao not me evaluating all people in my class on the basis of who would logically be the best partner and deciding to have a "crush" on said person in both primary school and middle school
@@_.se_v_en._4618 NOOOO I DID THAT TOO......rip we really did try so hard. i think we deserve a prize or three
oooooh THIS!!! I asked people who they thought I should marry when I was 5, and decided that their choice meant that he was my crush. I considered him my crush until I was almost 17... I barely saw him past the age of 10.
I've never heard someone so aptly describe what it's like to be torn between being comfortable with your identity and feeling like you're falling behind. Thank you. I'm 21, and I've never been on a date, and I feel like I should be farther along. I'm ace, questioning my romantic identity. I've always wanted a relationship but it's never been the most important thing in my life. My parents treat me like I'm naive, immature, or both. My friends are supportive but I feel like such a kid whenever they talk about relationships. It's so hard.
Same, at the same time having feelings of guilt, anxiety, sadness and most defenetly loneliness over never having that kind of connection and yet not seeking it
Same but I am 25. Thankfully most of my friends are similar which is a very astronomically rare thing to have. My parents were judgy, but over the years constantly talking to them and trying to get through has worked and now they leave me alone (figuratively, we still live together). It was pretty hard when I was younger, but engaging with friends (or even meetup groups for ace people) who are similar or atleast understand as well as just having a hobby like video games and enjoying yourself (and taking care of yourself) helps.
I'm almost 27 and feel the same. For me, the idea of having a (romantic and/or sexual) relationship didn't even really enter my brain until a few years ago after I realized that I was trans and started feeling more comfortable with my gender. And even now, I don't think I want to have a sexual or romantic relationship but I do want to be a parent and raise kids with another person. I see all my (mostly cishet) friends in relationships, talking about marriage and kids, and I feel like I'm too far behind and I also feel more and more left out of their conversations because I just can't relate.
I really want to tell you that the feeling of “lagging behind” like it’s a race and you’re losing, goes away as you get older, but I think for most people it seems to not do that. That feeling lessened a lot for me lately (I just turned 29), but I might be an outlier on this aspect. Either way, I hope you someday manage to figure out and come to terms with your identity.
I totally resonate with this comment. In the past I leaned hard into the 'you just haven't met the right person yet' theory, because I had that feeling of getting too old/running out of time. 10+ years later, I would really love to talk to my younger self. I'd tell myself that I tried a ton of it, that I've finally accepted that I'm solidly somewhere on the aroace spectrums (still trying to nail it down more than that and leaning towards the flux labels). I'd say, sure I can, & have, enjoyed relationships and sex, but really, I would've preferred some good chocolate cake and a cuddle, more than bodily fluids and obligations to people I liked more as close friends. I wish I'd treated sex and relationships less like a checklist on the way to a societial-imposed version of happily ever after. I wish I didn't still have parts of me hoping for that.
Hugs to everyone with these same fears and pressures. You're not alone.
Holy shit! I felt the holding onto the greyromantic label just in case you might find romantic attraction one day. So glad to not feel alone in my feelings
"I thought that eventually I would feel the way I'm supposed to feel" is a Bly Manor line that really sticks with me
I think it's not only 100% okay to feel this way.. that's maybe what gray-romantic is. If you feel you don't want to close that door, then don't! It's not just about how you feel now, it's how you think you'll fill in the future. That's why bisexual people don't turn straight when in a straight relationship. If in the future you decide to shut the door, you can. It's not like you're letting the heat out leaving it open just in case in the mean time.
I don’t know if it’s a good thing or a bad thing that I took on the aro label before I knew grayromanticism was a thing. I’ve just come to the conclusion that I’ll be alone forever and I can’t be bothered to think differently now.
i first heard the terms aro and ace on tumblr when i was in my teens and immediately adopted ace, but i was a lot more hesitant to embrace aro because of amatonormativity, and also the fact that i didnt have any really close friends - i wondered if i might be demiro and just had such a small sample size of frienships that could feasibly be the baseline for attraction to form.... essentially that i hadnt met the right person yet :/
thankfully it wasnt long before i saw a comic that described knowing whether youve experienced attraction as looking for turtles in a pond (maybe the turtles are hiding, maybe they need to be lured out, maybe youre bad at identifying whats a turtle and whats a rock, maybe there are no turtles) and it said that ponds without turtles can still be complete ecosystems and that if you ever do find turtles you can rename the pond. that comic was what convinced me to embrace the label of aro, and if i was ever proven otherwise then i could relabel myself
then a few years later i met and befriended a guy online over discord who would eventually become my boyfriend (and he introduced me to his polycule and i'm now partners with 2 other ppl) so at this point i ID as grey/demiro - im still not entirely?? sure if what i feel for my partners is romantic in nature, but were all arospec and we love each other and want to build a home together. and i dont know how i would feel if i didnt have them in my life anymore. how i would cope. because theyre the only ones ive ever wanted to build a life with like that. i can only hope that my first ever relationships can last (my boyfriend and i have been together 4 years by now, but all long distance, i havent visited him yet bc its a 2 thousand dollar international flight just to see him)
I'm demisexual and demiromantic and hearing that alone not alive segment broke me. I do want a relationship. I've been conditioned to the point that it's all that I want. But I just don't feel the attraction needed for that to happen. Sure, it's technically possible for me to feel that attraction and I have done in the past, but it's so so rare and this just put it all in perspective. I wouldn't want a relationship if the world hadn't told me that's all I should want. I could be so much happier and fulfilled if society wasn't this way. And because I know it might be possible to feel that attraction to someone else one day I'm going to continue to feel alone, not alive. Thinking about the slim chance I meet someone who triggers that response in me and makes my life truly "complete". And that's bullshit. Excellent video. Well done. Your words are so important in such a representation-starved community
Hey friend-- while you don't need relationships to be happy, I will say this: You don't need attraction to form a successful relationship! It's all about what "relationship" means to you. I've been "dating" my best friend for years, but neither of us to this day has had more than a flash of romantic interest in the other, if any (we're still discussing, since neither of us can really identify what romantic and sexual attraction IS... moreso we know what we DON'T LIKE and it's basically.... all conventional romantic relationships and sexual experiences are off the table, straight or normal, except for in very rare circumstances and with close friends and even THEN it's just for fun and bonding, and flirting is torturous). What we have is a very unique, cuddly friendship that occasionally gets steamy but usually not. The "dating" only started because we were pressured immensely from friends and family to change how our relationship works, and I cried my eyes out in a hallway because I needed to feel like I wasn't going to be abandoned by ANOTHER friend and he was about to move in to my guest room, so isn't that dating? We both grew up in very neglectful households, are both queer, and we had both looked at relationship as a "way out," of our sad, isolated lives. The friendship was already that escape, but it was harder to escape the guilt of thinking that we didn't "do romance" correctly we were going to be broken, lonely people... even though we knew we just wanted to spend our lives together, that we loved each other, but that we just put all of our emotional energy into and see it returned through our friendship-- and that's why it can be devastating to be exiled from friend groups, especually for just not wanting anything more than friendship and taking that more seriously than romantic or sexual relationships. I am happy to say that I love my partner very much, and he loves me, but it's a kind of deep kindness-and-smiles love that reminds me of old poems about friendship written with the same beauty and tact as one about a koi pond, or cherry blossoms, or a sunset-- not as seeing the other person AS a thing that evokes feelings of love, but as a person who can truly understand you enough to appreciate those things with you. I don't really mind sex and I find romance a bit inscrutable, but what I love is the feeling of being understood. And you CAN get that in a relationship, but it can ALSO come from friends, or family, or colleagues, or lots of other things. Find what you want and talk to other demisexual/demoromantic people about how to get it, or experiment with nontraditional relationships to see for yourself. But protect yourself. You DO have a right to connect to a person regardless of whether or not they can click some magic button in your brain to make you feel differently about them in heart-racey ways (how I think romantic attraction works-- idk, I usually think people are very drawable and nice conversationalists, not sexually or romantically appealing). You are gonna do fine. Or, you know... be like me like me and start out wanting to be everyone's chaotic single gay aunt, date people because of peer pressure, and end up sharing an apartment with someone who wants to also do that, but next to you, until one of you dies. Stressful to get there, but nice when it's over 👌🏽
I’m only halfway through, but Bobby sounds more aro-coded than gay-coded. However, I’m aro, so that might just be me wishful thinking.
Honestly same here
I'm not aro, but I totally agree with your reading. I think they were trying to go for fear of commitment in the writing, but I think depending on the actor's performance something intended to come off as fear can be more akin to aversion, disinterest, or discontentment. It could be why this particular production is the one that resonated with David.
I was thinking the same thing! And with all the discussion of heteronormativity, it feels lacking to not discuss amatonortmativity.
lmao nvm apparently i was jus too impatient, we did eventually get to the amatonormativity
I thought the same. Which makes the finale even more crushing, because that marks the moment when an aro just gives up and conforms to expectations. I may have cried at that moment
My aro-ace experience involves fluctuating from viewing marriage as a financial commitment to romanticizing the idea of romance but feeling as though any love that comes myself can never be honest or correct.
the last song makes me feel like bobby is just caving in. he's not snapping out of anything, he's just snapping. just being crushed into the mould he's been told he needs to fit into.
Even as someone who experiences attraction, I'm perpetually sickened by society's obsession with romantic and sexual attraction, and am always searching out media that explores or at least focuses on other types of love. Thank you for putting your voice and your experience into the world.
Hey David, I just wanted to say, that I can feel for you. I'm a married heterosexual guy, but i always had trouble with intimacy through my entire life.
Until I recently heard the term asexual i always thought my low interest in sexual interactions were just a side effect of me being an introvert.
Now I slowly come to the conclusion that this might be the other way around.
For me, the times we live in right now are my personal dream came true, except for this damn virus of course.
Nobody who forces me into a family gathering, no garden party with endless small talk about things i don't care about, draining the life force out of my bones.
I always wanted to be alone, but I can understand that other people see this kind of life to be depressing or lonely sometimes.
At the end of part three of your video I noticed that you are quite emotional about that prospect and i wanted to let you know, that it is been noticed.
I really hope the this pandemic will come to an end soon and we all can choose freely if we want to be in company or not.
You don't even want to know how many times I said "Yes! Exactly!" out loud while watching this. I could relate especially well to what you said about amatonormativity in part three.
I'm an 18 year old ace, probably somewhere on the aromantic spectrum, and I don't want to get married or have children or any of that. Other people look at their future and see themselves with a romantic partner, getting married eventually, moving into their own place, having children. I try to look into my own future and I see... nothing.
It doesn't help that I have social anxiety and am very bad at making friends, so I fear that without a romantic partner I will be completely alone.
I feel you buddy. But when I think about my future, I see a house full of dogs, cats and other critters. I think that's a better way of looking at things 😎
Ending up totally alone is the one thing I fear. I mean, i don't care if I get into a relationship or not, i'm clearly ace and most likely aro (until proven otherwise), but I value friendship A LOT. For now (i'm 20) I still have lots of friends. Well... lots of, maybe not, but at least two real friends who i see regularily and several others who I really like. I just hope they won't do like my parents and their friends and become more and more distant over time (and I probably won't help given the difficulties I have to reach up to them)
But don't look only at that when trying to look at your future.
Personnaly i see the possibility of building a house, projects about my studies and maybe a related job, finding more time for my hobbies, lots and LOTS of warhammer miniatures, this kind of stuff. I think having hobbies and activities that you like, whether those make you meet people or not, is one of the most important things in life if you're not going to have romantic relationships or whatever.
Just realized my thoughts might seem a little messy but I leave it as is.
@@nessa-parmentier You're so right! Relationships don't have to define my life. For me, art and music is much more important, and I'm honestly excited to focus on that in the future.
Worse than “alone, not alive” is “married, not alive”.
Being with someone who doesn’t see the humanity within yourself is degrading.
Thanks for another wonderful video... as always, it’s given me a lot to think about.
I’m stuck in a codependent relationship, but it helps me put things into perspective moving forward.
Your comments about being confused about what romantic feelings feel like resonated with me, though I don't think of myself as being on the asexual spectrum. For me the question is how to tell where the borders are between feelings of friendship, romance, and sexual desire. This has made my long delayed acceptance of being bi very confusing - and also I wonder if I might be demisexual. Heteronormative standards have always been painfully confusing to me - I've always felt radically out of touch. And now that I can say I'm queer and bi, I still have to figure out what that means for who I spend the rest of my life with, in a world that sees me as alien. Which I think is similar to what you talk about in this video.
Company is the perfect musical for Valentine’s Day 🤍 wonderful as always!
Breaking my own heart on Valentine's Day for ✨aesthetic reasons ✨
Dang it, Lola; why did you have to show up here? Now I've got Paparazzi stuck in my head again!
I really appreciate that discussion of "was this a squish, was it romantic attraction, was it me crossing the wires because there's no way for me to _actually_ know what that is other than in an academic sense," because...that's really where I'm at right now in trying to figure out my identity. like, am I desperately clinging to the idea that i really want romantic partners because that's what's been harped at me for so long, or do i even feel that way, because i have no idea what the difference is between romantic and platonic love is, and the idea that someone would be like "well, we're just friends, i wouldn't want to date them, though," makes _no_ sense to me. like. i've basically been in this relationship with three of my friends for almost a year now, but are we close platonic friends, or is that romantic, and what's _actually_ that difference?
i don't know. i just know i really appreciate this video you have, considering it rings very true to me and speaks alot of things that I feel and am vaguely going through as just the background radiation of my life.
Dang, this resonates 😟
Thank you so much for discussing the "straight timeline" here. This basicly is an accurate explanation of something that I have never really managed to put into words, something that a lot of my insecurities are rooted in. Even though it never was directly stated to me, there always was this feeling of "You should have kissed someone by now", "You should be dating", and so on. Creating this strange sort of feeling, that you might want something, let's say, a boyfriend, idk, sex, just because "it's normal to want that", while if I further investigate, I can't really say that I actually desire those things. This Video helped me a lot in understanding my world. :) To everyone, have a nice week^^
As an aro person (of the allosexual variety), who even thought I had myself mostly figured out this video really means a lot to me. I knew about heterotemporality and queer time and yet I hadn’t connected it to my own experiences and that whole bit with the “alone not alive” part really hit me hard. So thanks. It’s good having an a-spec creator out there.
And then there is the whole "i actually want to have all those things..." But allas, I am fucking ace and somehow don't feel the things that I am supposed to feel to get them..... So, yeah, thank you for this video, it totally destroyed me, but you are the first person I have seen so far describing these experiences I've also had. Yay! Confusion and missery in company. I'm gonna go keep crying now
Loved it! Also, "Hal, it's about cats," will always be iconic
Speaking as a pan-romantic asexual polyamorous child-free nearly-40-year-old virgin, THANK YOU! 🙏 Luckily one of my younger sisters has given my mum the grandchild she’s been wanting for years, so that guilt and weight is off my shoulders, but all the rest is still there. I feel blessed to have such an understanding and respectful partner now, but it’s not been - and is still not always - easy.
Honestly I'm so afraid that my friends are going to move away with their partners and I'm going to end up alone that having a relationship seems like the only way to have a live long close friend.
I never heard of this show, so I gave myself a two-hour crash course on it in preparation for this video, and I am feeling SO ready this.
a two hour crash course?
was it $3.99?
As an aro/ace person in my late 20s, everything about this video so incredibly relatable. The crushing pressure of the straight mind is exactly what I've been fighting internally, I just didn't know the word for it. Thank you for sharing
So much of this video really came for me as an aroace person, but this quote especially punched me right in the gut: "When Bobby caves to his friends' demands and starts begging for someone to love him"
This isn't the point you were making right then (though you definitely touched on it in other parts of the video), but I took this a slightly different way-- "starts begging for someone to love him," in this case, not some hypothetical future partner, but his FRIENDS. It feels like he's not only begging for that hypothetical person to love him, but also saying "see? I'm doing what you want!!" in order to be assured of his friends' continued love and support.
I might be projecting, but it speaks so viscerally to the experience I've had with friends who claim to understand and support my orientation but then later show that they've basically been thinking of me the same way Bobby's friends think of him--but just not saying so. And so much of their desire to fit me into that mold is BECAUSE they care for me--because it's the only thing they can see as happy and healthy, and they want me to be happy and healthy! But it's still deeply hurtful to find out that no matter how much you explained and they nodded thoughtfully and said "that makes sense" about what it means to be ace and aromantic over the years, they still put you in the mental category of "straight but shy" and as soon as you have a relationship that looks romantic (regardless of whether it is) they determine that 1. you are now on the path to happiness, finally, thank goodness and 2. you were "normal" all along (normal meaning straight and alloromantic/allosexual) and 3. this relationship must be the most important one in your life now. I was already happy! I'm still not straight! And this relationship is important to me, but not more so than the other deep and intimate friendships I have, many of which have lasted for far longer!
And truly, it hurts, but more than once I've let that kind of thing go because I *do* want those friends to love me. I want to be cared about as I care about them. I'm pretty far along in my journey, out to most people, and very vocal about my orientation, but there are still times when I just...don't argue. Because I'm tired, and I want to be loved (just not romantically).
This comment devastated me. I feel seen and terrified. Thank you.
@@iamabirb2748 I'm sorry you know the feeling, but man, sometimes it's very validating to know it's not just me.
yo, you put into words my experience so well it took my breath away. now i feel sad and will re-evaluate my life choices. if they dont see and accept me for who i am, why would i want their love? but also, we've talked about it and she's trying to understand so. maybe i can wait for her to realize hetero romantic relationships aren't humanity's peak.
Sometimes I'll be reading a story and quite enjoying it and then the character will suddenly start showing an interest in someone else. I'll just think "oh, right. That's a thing. Sigh."
Wow. You have reached into my chest and clenched my heart tight. You did such a wonderful job of putting into words so many thoughts I’ve had over the years. I’ve loved Company for years and have also been grappling with my aroace identity for years. I’m pretty confident in being ace, but much like you with being aro I feel myself desperately clinging onto the idea of being grey or demi aro, anything that means that maybe one day I’ll find the right person and settle down into a relationship. But I would also like to offer some alternate readings of Being Alive, which is one of my favourite musical songs of all time. I think perhaps that in this queer reading of Company, Being Alive is Bobby’s final last ditch desperate effort to try and force himself to find comfort in a relationship, because I think even though he doesn’t want a relationship, he deeply, badly, desperately wants to want a relationship. Which I relate to hard. All the things that Bobby is singing about wanting ‘somebody hold me too close’ etc., are the things he wants to want. Maybe I’m projecting but it feels that Bobby is not just emotional in that last song, but he is angry, and mostly angry at himself. He is telling himself over and over again that this is what you should want! You should want someone to hurt you too deep! You should want someone to need you too much! What is wrong with you that you don’t! The words are a mantra of sorts that he is doing everything he can to get himself to believe that he truly wants them. I like to think that as he is repeating ‘being alive’ to himself over and over again before belting out that magnificent final one, rather than coming to the conclusion that being in a relationship is the pinnacle of being alive, he instead is perhaps starting to admit to himself that being alive is the ultimate goal in life, and that acknowledging your ‘being alive-ness’ to yourself is the first step in figuring out what you truly want aside from all the things that society projects and pressures onto us.
This was wonderful video, thank you for your thoughts
There's also something really bothersome with the ideas not being married is the same as being alone. As if you can't have strong connection with friends or relatives.
Sure, it is a different connection, but that doesn't makes them any less important.
I’m demisexual and this was so so validating to watch. I’m in a relationship now but I feel like I’m playing catch up in a game I never wanted to play. I spent 27 years learning to date myself, and I saw my family in horrible relationships just cause. Thank you for being vulnerable and shedding life on this.
"Learning to date myself" is the perfect description! I'm stuck with myself for the rest of my life, so I want to work on cultivating a healthy and fulfilling relationship with myself, instead of relying on external relationships that aren't guaranteed to last.
I'm also demisexual! I grew up in purity culture and WOW was it difficult to sort that out from my orientation! I relate hard to your description of "playing catch up," because I never dated until I was 33 and then went through a spiritual deconstruction/recalibration, started dating my first ever partner (a close friend from my dance group), got engaged, and started planning for a wedding, house and family within 18 months 😳 it's been a whirlwind! Amazing and wonderful but so so different from the entire rest of my life!
Oh my god I’m so excited. I have so many feelings about company as an aroace- I’m so interested to see where you go with this
...god, I’ve not been so interested in this musical for precisely the same reasons as you - it’s the marriage musical. The most relatable thing about it to me was the “Not Getting Married” song lmao
...but as soon as I saw the thumbnail for this video, my mind was blown that this particular reading of it had never occurred to me. As if “Being Alive” wasn’t already a hard-hitting song, you’re out here making it even /more/ depressing. I’m not sure if I prefer it.
im just starting this video and i already love it. being a trans lesbian, when i saw that the west end revival featured a woman Bobby i was sooo excited! A lesbian bobby? in a post 'marriage equality' world when the character would have likely spent her formative years thinking that marriage wasnt an option for her??? Inspired!! Imagine my disappointment then, when they gender swapped all her partners :/
Thank you for the deep dive, i really appreciate the perspective.
IT'S TRUE THOUGH. Lesbian Bobby would be absolutely incredible. You keep the Amy->Jamie switch, so the desperation behind the Act 1 proposal suddenly becomes about succumbing to heteronormativity, and you bring queer marriage politics into the whole emotional arc. Why should queer people aspire to a heteronormative institution/ideal etc. etc. You could do SO MUCH with that.
Like that's the beauty of Company, it's allegedly about a straight person but it becomes so. fucking. gutting. when you read Bobby as anything beyond a cis and straight.
This ought to just be titled "Why Raul Esparza is a GOAT"
Well, part three just hit me like a truck. You put into words things that I didn't know I wanted to say.
I am Asexual and Aromantic myself and this constant pressure from society and my family is soul crushing at times. "We will support you if you bring home a boyfriend, but we wish it to be a girlfriend" this is what my mother said to me (and what my father nodded in agreement to). The Hetero- and autonomativity (as well as casual homophobia) that is everywhere in society makes me (and probably a lot of other queer people) feel that we are "broken" or "wrong" and it is so dangerous for our mental health to think that. I myself started to like how I looked after finding out what Aromantisism and Asexuality was, since then I had a label other then "broken" and "wrong".
It feelt really comforting to see that there are others who are so uncertain with their own identity and who has a similar mindset as me. People who still cling to "I need to be straight, because I am supposed to be". People who might not be able to give guidence, but are able to show people that there are other just like them. Especially people not afraid to say it.
David if you see this, you have helped me finding out a lot of myself and you have helped me accept myself a lot more then "someone who is always supposed to be right" ever have. Being like a textbook can give info about the existance of something, but being uncertain and documenting their way of finding out will give people guidence in finding out themself.
company always hits pretty hard for me specifically for the reasons youve mentioned.
im 21, polyamorous, and alloaro (specifically pansexual aromantic). these may seem contradictory but the way i see it, if theres someone im attracted to, and we really connect, and they ask me out? cool yeah let's do this! in the end it's like being best friends for me, im just using a different word and really the only difference is sometimes we kiss and have sex. as long as they understand what i feel is different from what they feel, and i can never feel the same way they do, then i see no problem in labeling the relationship in that way.
but every time i explain how i view relationships i always get people saying "oh youre young and experimenting" or even "thats sad, people your age shouldnt think like that" and so im faced with amatonormativity and heterotemporality REALLY hard and ALL the time. it's a really hard subject for me because in the end i have to ask myself, why am i even in those relationships? am i just trying to fit into a standard that wasnt made for me? am i THAT afraid of being alone? im just going with the flow and seeing what works, and what i have works for me, but it's neither what society wants from me or what youd expect a fully aromantic person to do.
i can never fully know why i work like this, or if it's some form of compulsory amatonormativity, or stuff like that, and i wish i had easy answers for all of it to put my mind at ease.
I really hate the topic of love. It feels like the universe giving me the finger as every time i get comfortable, something has to remind me that romantic relationships will always matter more, like they matter more than me.
Im grey aro/ace. I feel a few small things, but it means nothing to me. Like the boxes don't exist yet I'm still standing far between all of them.
But also that I've fallen through the cracks that sit between them?
I'm not very good at describing it.
The 'made for each other' idea of love that people seem so desperate for is terrifying. Because if all that matters is "each other" then where's the room for me? I'll never have that, and I don't want what I do have to be taken by this villainous love. It kind of feels like your life-long enemy is being praised by the universe, all while it perpetually haunts you like a bitch.
My friend isn't like me. She's not aro though perhaps somewhere on the ace spectrum. She loves. Like, a lot. For everyone, for the beauty in all humanity and everything that makes people themselves. It's so open, so endless and I've never loved love as much as I have hearing them talk about it.
I thought I'd always hate love, and for the most part I still do. Always will. But her love? Yeah, I could believe in that.
I don't know if it means much, and I'll never understand it, but I really do love open love.
You sound like her, to me at least, if just switched around.
You sound like you have a really beautiful situation that works for you, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
:)
I saw the thumbnail for this video and immediately knew EXACTLY what this video was going to be about, and you NAILED it. I saw Company a few years ago, when I was living on my own for the first time, and first coming to terms with the fact that I'm aroace. I loved it, but it left me feeling like I was staring into an abyss that was my future. Because on one hand, I knew that I can't *change* my aromantic nature, but on the other, the show itself seemed to imply that the only reason someone would be that way was because they weren't willing to form meaningful commitments.
I've struggled for years to put words to the way that listening to Being Alive makes me feel, but you voiced them perfectly. On top of that, I feel like I understand my own reaction better. Thank you so much for this video, I loved it so much.
David, I almost never comment on videos, but I had to get something off my chest. The emotion you showed when you reiterated the shows sentiment for the final time, 'alone, not alive', absolutely gutted me. It is so sad that every aro person has to experience this, and I am not sure what to even begin doing about it. However, I feel like you are doing so much in creating a world that could grow increasingly closer to seeing the truth; that you are not broken because you do not long for romantic union. A lot of people ARE learning and that is partly because of you which is amazing. You are doing amazing work.
.
BRB crying about a musical I've never seen
oooh goodie ready so international singles day 😀
Tomorrow is cut-price chocolate day. :]
I'm so grateful for this channel. We definitely need more aro, ace, and aroace content in media. Otherwise we're ignored or invalidated. The possibility of an ace identity needs to come up in people's minds when they consider someone who's not straight (rather than seeing people as either straight or gay). People should know what ace means and acknowledge its existence.
I never realized how much I needed other Ace experiences in my life. I cried through the whole video. I struggle so much with wanting a connection I fear I'll never have.
Your take of Raul's version of Being Alive is exactly what I was feeling when I first found the song. And you're right, it's hard to redefine your expectations in life when you're on the aroace spectrum, but we're more connected and less "alone" than people think.
Great video! I liked all the talk about "straight time." It's really no joke how much pressure family and friends can put on you for dating or getting married. Every year the screw turns a little more.
I've definitely been there myself with just wanting someone with a title of "boyfriend" so people will leave me alone. I've never dated anyone or had sexual experiences (as a mid-twenties person) and especially in college I would panic about it as my friends all started to couple off. I've walked into rooms filled with young people and been the only person who isn't married or in a relationship. I decided years ago that being in a romantic relationship wasn't for me, and dealing with expectations has gotten easier with practice and mental fortitude, but I still have doubts even now that my life won't be "fulfilled" if I "found my other half." The point is you're not alone in your experiences and (as unhelpful as this is), hang in there!
Same, I am nearly 30, and I had no sex, no (romantic) relationships, and no job either. And obviously no kids, but I am an uncle, which I find far more gratifying (having my extended Pokemon knowledge making me look like the coolest adult is pretty great ngl)
Now, my friends aren't married either (partly because all those concepts like heteronormativity implies able bodied and mind.), so I don't have pressure on that part.
Still, what I consider a rather fulfilling lifetime is seen as less than worthless by society. It's a strange feeling.
oh man! Im very excited! this is like the best possible thing to come out of valentines day!
The Raúl Esparza production was the one I came across first, and it sparked much the same feelings in me - I found it so difficult to reconcile the place Bobby gets to in Being Alive with my experience of the rest of the show. Thank you for putting this into research and words - a truly brilliant video and (to me, at least) *very* important!
the caption is a mood. a big one at that
Great video! I appreciate you opening up about the confusing mess being acesexual can be. You question everything about yourself, and of course the looming threat of being alone, that friends will move on, and you have no one left. It's a very real fear, and it is amazing to hear someone else expressing similar fears to mine.
Thank you so much for such a relatable, brave, honest, heartbreaking but reassuring video... ❤ 'twas needed.
As an aro person, I cannot express how comforting it was so see someone put words to the frustration I felt relating to Bobby's anxiety over not being romantically "where he should be" and trying to convince the people around him that marriage isn't what he wants for so much of this show and then seeing how the end of Being Alive imply that he "solved the problem" of him feeling that way by just giving in and opening himself up to romantic love. The first time I watched the show, I for sure felt the weird mix of affection and contempt for Being Alive and I just couldn't place my finger on why. And even though I logically know that I don't need to subscribe to the values of hetero and amatanormativity, sometimes I just need to hear that directly from someone who understands. Thank you
This whole musical and video hits different when you thought you were hard aromantic when it turns out it was more of a spectrum for you. Because how you're going through the hoops, falling in love, sharing your life, getting engaged and getting (cat) babies, and does this make you a better person, a more complete person? No. Never. But I wish people in my life would stop seeing me like that, it feels very bitter to think that my truth, my happiness comes to question when it does not jump through hoops that say, "this is the way for ultimate happiness!" It was heartbreaking when my mother told me how happy she was for me, because she thought I'd end up alone, that I was lonely. What does that even mean?
This video resonates with me so much. I know in my head that being in a relationship isn't the only way to be happy, but I feel so alone when society shoves amatonormativity in my face. On Valentines Day, being single is treated as something that you need to feel bad about or cover up. Being aromantic is treated as being immature or attention-seeking. Even queer readings of things like Company leave me feeling invisible because of course gay relationships deserve more representation, but the possibility of being aromantic or asexual is left out altogether. This video honestly makes me tear up every time I watch it. Thank you so much.
i have no idea what this is abt but i am SO EXCITED nonetheless
This really, really makes me think of a song that came out last Year. "Death Rattle" by The Prize Fighter Inferno.
"Stand here waiting for, while death comes knocking at my door, someone who won't let go, can't let go, of me."
But then the climax of the song concludes _"And so it reads, not everybody needs someone. It's okay to be alone, son."_
Thank you for suggesting that song. I just went and looked it up. It is fabulous. =^_^=
Well, that was a lot more confronting than I thought - thank you for articulating so many things that are always floating in my head, but never really crystalise in a coherent form. During these trying times I keep coming back to Company, a small comfort when friendships are so far away physically.
Some rambling incoherent thoughts on the ending: eventually I land on the positive side because the ending stays just vague enough. The piece doesn’t really end with phenomenal ‘Being Alive’, but with the recurring birthday party. However, this time Bobby isn’t there. When his friends leave, he finally manages to blow out the birthday candles. I always read that as Bobby starting some kind of road to self-discovery without his friends and their restricting and oppressive notions of marriage - what that is exactly is remains unclear.
Anyway, keep up the good work!
been grappling with my romantic identity for a little while now and a lot of this video really hit hard for me. I feel so muddled all the time, it's really difficult to tell what I'm feeling and it's even harder to tell if I can or can't feel a certain way, since I have no idea what I'd be looking for.
I know that I have felt... _something_ towards a handful of people in my life, but if that was really romantic attraction or not I really cannot begin to tell. and recently on some level part of me has started to worry that I would end up truly alone, even if in truth that doesn't make much sense
I grew to appreciate Happily Ever After, the song that was in Being Alive's place which ended on a much more cynical and ambivalent note towards marriage, more. That song is peak Sondheim passive aggressiveness and it slaps.
wow, that really opened my eyes.
I realise you don't need be in relationships and do things just because it's 'what people do'. And it's ok to be alone, having a boyfriend for the sake of it is not a way to fix your life. You can have meaningful relationships without them being romantic.
Gosh, if i had realised this stuff a few years earlier it could have saved me a lot of trouble.
Thank you so much.
I have seldom been so enthusiastic about an upcoming TH-cam video, you rock for even wanting to make something on this topic.
Wow! So much resonated with me here! Im Angled Aroace (on both the ace-spec and aro-spec), but I still have a really hard time defining how I partially do, or don't, experience some form of romantic attraction. I love the idea of romantic love (in film and fiction) but it's just not something I seem to feel/want 'properly' in real life. Ugh ... So confusing! Amatanormativity definitely makes things difficult to figure out!!! Some times I think I feel romantic attraction, then the next day the thought of a romantic relationship is a big ol' NO. So the labels Aroflux and Aegoromantic feel a good fit at the moment. I also find Identifying with alterous attraction as also useful when you feel something beyond platonic, but something that's not entirely romantic either ... Like the grey area between the two.
What a lovely explaination, I myself am struggling with similar things and this will be the thing I look into next. I love how this community is sooo educational.
@@gingerbean2406 Aww, thank you. I think because it's difficult to define romantic attraction, it's a lot harder to figure out where you lay on the spectrum. I'm still trying to figure this out too, but learning the differences between the forms of attraction definitely helps (e.g. aesthetic, physical, emotional, intellectual, sensual, alterous, platonic). Best of luck on your Aro journey of discovery! 💚
Great comment. It is amazing to come across someone who is the same and can express it so eloquently - thank you!!
It would be nice if non-a/greyromantic people would also take note of this stuff, not only to help out others but to also see how amatonormativity hurts them to. Both in fiction and reality, romantic coupling is seen as such an endgame that it is considered both acceptable and even responsible to eject everyone else, or at least distance them, leaving those who don't fall into that alienated by people who they thought were close friends. I have often seen people shamed for feeling rejected or depressed when their closest friends got together with each other and then sort of cut that friend mostly out of their lives. That friendships are something we are supposed to just get over and not have at a certain point. Gee I wonder why it's so hard to make friends as you get older?
I didn't expect to see Abigail Thorn here, but I'm always glad to see her. At nearly 40, I am still fuguring out where I fit on this spectrum.
This is amazing!
Thanks for persisting in your endeavor. Your work is what I needed in my darkest times and even now it brings me solace knowing that there are people with the same questions, same struggles. I never had words and even a framework to describe this world in a such manner. Thank you for introducing a new way forward and that there is even one.
I was at a cocktail party a three years ago, and friend was elated to say he had been cast as Bobby in a local production of Company. Another friend, a gay man, casually mentioned the idea of reading Bobby as queer, and was immediately met with "Does everything have to be read as queer now? Are we all going to paint over the masterpieces of the past with our own takes?" He backed down, and thus I had no idea what he was talking about. Until tonight, that is. I sent him a link and cannot wait to hear what he has to say about your thorough and compelling interpretation, which to me, make a lot of sense (and I am a straight, married father). Frankly, I don't know if I can see Bobby any other way now. Thank you for a great video, and for your much appreciated candor. I wish you happiness in whatever form it takes.
Hey David! I’ve been watching your videos for a while and I’m not typically one for comments but I just wanted to drop in and say how much I appreciate this video. All of last year I was having a super similar fight with myself and a lot of the ways you talked about aromanticism connected with me in a way I can’t really even explain. I’ve NEVER heard anyone else think about these things in the exact same way and it was just so comforting. Most of the pressure I feel is internal but that way you talk about it, even and especially the painful parts, makes me feel a lot less alone. Thank you thank you thank you, I will definitely be rewatching this video next time I’m feeling that special kind of sad
once more, i feel like this is truly the channel which most helps me relate, on a personal level, on issues relating to love beyond sexuality. thank you deeply for that.
finally i understand the concept of heterotemporality!! abby thorns video didnt really explain that well enough imo. i have thought so, so many times how much of an outsider, a failure i am for not having the typical teenage experience -getting drunk, trying drugs, losing my virginity, going to parties, experimenting, having my heart broken, be absolutely in love with someone, etc. i have told so many fellow film school classmates who gave me their scripts to revise that, as much as i can help them, that experience theyre so focused on telling, the one of a young adult life in which one goes from party to party having sex and losing friends and maturing and stuff, all that is not my experience. i have asked them to consider, have you ever thought that maybe thatd not the only experience? and only got weird looks back. feeling like sex terrifies me, but feeling strong crushes on people of all genders, while still being able to register those crushes as very deep friendship bonds that i just, just wish could allow me to receive affection in a more intimate level -i long for hugs, for cuddles, for kisses on my head, for the sort of familial affection i no longer receive as an adult. i can see bobbys desperation to not be alone and relate to that, so much... i always think of that scene in the latest littke women movie, in which jo tells her mother about how much she wants to marry laurie, even if she doesnt love him. she doesnt want to be alone. what do you do when friendships are dissolved like sugar in water, and youre expected to settle down? what does it say about you as a person, to never have been loved in the way society deems true and significant?
i was obsessed, and still am, with the movie Corpse Bride (i made a video essay on it and all). its perspective on marriage, and the way it can be interpreted, still fascinates me. and, because of that, ive written (for it to probably never be staged) a theater version of it that takes into account the reality of marriage in the late 1800s, how it was both an arrangement of economic and social nature, and how it became more and more an idealized conclusion to a love story. in my interpretation, the three main characters rush or escape marriage, doubting each choice they make, as they realize that what they truly want is understanding. the corpse brides only identity is as a wife: no matter the groom, she only knows that she cannot be alone. because, as sondheim as said: to be alone is to not be alive. thats how it feels, as awful as it may be.
thank you again for this video. its always a delight to watch your analysis, as niche as they may be.
(also wait. is the 2006 bobby that other psychiatrist from hannibal????????)
Your stage version of corpse bride sounds amazing!
Very glad the algorithm decided to recomend a previous video of yours to me today. You do good stuff, I'm currently exploring your videos.
Thank you for the nice comment, but mainly I have to ask is your profile picture the animals of gosh darn farthing wood? Because that is a nostalgia landslide.
@@DavidJBradley It is indeed.
Heck yes
Every time I feel alone in my experiences living as an aroace... I watch this video. It reminds me that I'm not alone.
I was assigned to watch a version of Company for a theatre homework assignment and I couldn’t put my finger on why I hated the musical. This explains pretty much everything (other than I just don’t really like musicals). I’m ace and mostly aro. The ending to the musical doesn’t feel like a happy ending. It feels like someone finally bending to pressure and vowing to marry someone if it will make him a full person in the eyes of the friends he cares about. It sounds like someone throwing their authentic self away because that’s the only way they can be truly alive.
As an Ace who's dating someone(mutually happy I believe :)), I still believe my ideal life is living alone/without a relationship. I want you to know that your views on relationships are valid and there are others who feel the same
Found this through the algorithm, likely in the wake of Sondheim's passing as I've been injecting Company videos into my veins like some sort of eulogical drug. This is my favorite Sondheim musical, one that is deeply ingrained into my artistic identity and really helped me understand the value of conceptual and non-explicitly-linear storytelling. On a deeper level, as someone who was very lonely in my early teens and convinced I wasn't interested in a relationship or with love, I saw a character right in front of me who found a sort of catharsis moment in admitting to himself that he truly *does* want these things, all while observing several incredibly stark and subversive observations about the constructs of relationships and marriages and how, ultimately, all you need is the connection with somebody. That is what lies at the heart of it.
My reading is obviously very different from yours, but I found a lot of value in hearing your take on it. I'm a mostly straight guy so it can be very easy for me to shrug off queer readings of the text simply because I want it to fit in my own little box. But this video was so raw and personal and had so much interesting theory, really well backed up by selections from the show. It honestly has me re-evaluating the show and its queerness. It feels so much more inherent to the piece now. So, thank you for making this video and thank you for really showcasing a unique reading of the musical, from one Company fan to another.
god, you really took my heart out of my chest and made me look at it with this video! I've recently realized I'm somewhere on the aroace spectrum myself, and I feel this ache at feeling like I'm missing out on some great, big something. because romance and sex is so hyped up, because that's the goal of life, right? but recently, especially during this pandemic and after an awful breakup and realizing that I was just performing romance, I realized...hey. I don't have to be chasing my tail. love in any form is love. friends can be enough. society just sweeps them all to the side like our friends are just stepping stones to some great soulmate love. but my best friends are my soulmates, I've realized. we love each other to death. friends *matter*. it's hard for me to put into words exactly how much they mean to me. this is getting a bit rambly, but this video is like you took my feelings and put them on a screen for 44 minutes. all I can say is FRIENDS ARE SO DEEPLY IMPORTANT AND LOVE YOU SO MUCH!! ITS NOT ALL ROMANCE! apologies for the caps, but they felt necessary
as a teenager who knows absolutely nothing about life yet, it is really encouraging to see adults feeling the same things i do. your whole presence is so validating. knowing that confusion and nervousness isn't unique to me, and my identity isn't just some immature teenager thing fills me with so so much comfort and validation. so thank you for doing what you do, and thank you for being an imperfect human. it really means the world to me 💚
Thank you for making this David. I've been obsessed with this musical since the beginning of music since October and I thought I was the only one that saw Bobby in an Aromantic light.
This musical has a profound effect on me & I loved this video. Keep up the good work!
- An Asexual/Aroflux Fan.
Clearly the TH-cam algorithm has failed me, considering that I'm a Steven Sondheim (and Sherlock Holmes) obsessed leftist aromantic asexual and I'm only discovering your channel now. Excellent stuff.
Company is also one of my favorite musicals that I strongly disagree with (Passion comes to mind also). I agree also that I didn't love it until I saw the Esparza version. Company is so strange in that every production seems like a completely different musical with a different meaning.
Your section about the pressures of reaching milestones upsetting you despite being comfortable with your identity gave voice to a lot of shit I've been working through in my first year as a 30 something, thank you.
Another famous Sondheim song famously goes, 'No one is alone.' While I too have a deeply personal commitment to Being Alive, No One is Alone is to me the greatest song Sondheim has ever written.
You are not alone. Believe me, no one is alone.
how did you manage to articulate every moment of my experience seeing company in the theater last night
"Movies and TV shows have added romantic subplots for no reason" - Looking at you, Legend of Korra!
thank you for creating this content. I mean, rly. Thank you so much.
And for having the courage to present yourself as vulnerable. Its refreshing to know that not everybody "got it figured out". I do feel like most things in my life comes with some 10 year delay in the topic of romantic and sexual and even social development, so thank you for pointing that out too. Its somehow validating.
Part 3 literally made me cry, thats how much it resonated with me.
This video made me cry. I grew up Mormon, and the expectation to date and get married that is forced on you, along with amatonormativity from mainstream society, made it extremely hard for me to accept that I was aroace, especially aro. It's something that I still struggle with. Knowing that there are other people out there, who feel the same way I do, makes me realize that I'm not alone and I'm not broken. Thank you so much for this video. I can barely express my gratitude in words.
This video really hits hard. The hard bit about feeling little romantic attraction and being very repulsed to sex is you hear songs about love and sex on the radio. Especially if you come out. I've been told "You might find someone!" As much as I honestly do desire a romantic relationship it's also never been my focus. Thank you so much. - a fellow grayro ace
Thank you!
It's my 37th birthday in 3 days and I feel really stressed about "not having done anything with my life". I'm also really broody since my sister gave birth 2.5 years ago which is not helping. I had never hear of straight time - using that my life experiences probably put me at 14 - 16. This totally explains why I feel so strongly about having 'wasted my youth/life'.
I turn 35 this year and I totally understand this! I made a huge step forward in my career this year, but it really feels insignificant compared to my brother, who is now father of 2 kids ...
currently in my one-person-i've-ever-liked depression spiral and yeah... thanks for this. makes me feel less alone.
man that bit about not even being sure if what you felt before was romantic attraction hit HARD. i've been with my boyfriend for two years and i love him a lot and want him in my life forever, but i still doubt every so often if it's truly *romantic* cause the line between that and platonic has always been muddled for me :/
The 2006 production is hands down the best recorded production of this musical. The minimalist aesthetics allows the relationship between characters to take center stage. No spectacle! Lots of tension through acting. So good! Great analysis.
I think its also an interesting that sondheim has never been married himself. So the hetero normative emphasis on marriage is peculiar because he also identifies as a gay man.
I appreciate this kind of video so much. It's so easy to just fall into patterns of thought that dehumanise others and now I have another thing I can show people to make clear what I mean when I talk about cisheteronormativity. Great work, David and thank you so much!
part three is so powerful, I caught myself reflecting every word you said in there and it does put a lot of stuff into perspective, so much, the fears and insecuirities I feel in the lowest of lows. It is nice to know that I am not alone, that quite a lot of people feel the same way, as depressing as it actually is
I tend not to post much, but tonight I'm moved to. I've watched this video a fair few times since you've released it. You talk about a particular perspective that I think is widely not discussed, if not ignored outright. I've a similar love/hate relationship with this musical. My first experience with this show was whilst playing the low reed book for my university production. I didn't know I was aro/ace at the time, but I knew I was somehow different than my peers; I found myself identifying a lot with Bobby throughout the initial rehearsals. The first night, after running the whole show in performance order for the first time, whilst sitting in the pit and hearing that last number, I recall asking our conductor "What happens to Bobby? Is the last song a suicide note?" The confused horror on the faces of the rest of my ensemble told me I'd arrived at a wildly different conclusion of the plot than they all did, but - at the time - what was the other alternative? I still remember that performance, those words, "Alone, not alive". I am much more comfortable with me and my life now, but I will never not weep to this show both in anger and understanding. Thank you for putting into words what's taken some years to express.
Thank you for making this video, and for all the vulnerability and effort that must have gone into it. I found it hit very close to home, but every piece of media like this out there makes it that bit easier to articulate the aro/greyro/queer experience, as well as a future for yourself when the timeline straight-time lays out for you just doesn't fit. It's honestly cruel that it's this hard to articulate that, but I'm glad it's not something I have to face by myself.
I know, I know I'm late. This video is fantastic. Raw and vulnerable, deep and compelling. I've been out as asexual for about a half-decade (30yo cis female) but only after my most recent and first relationship, did I start to wonder if I am somewhere on the aromantic spectrum and feel grey-romantic fits. I can turn off romantic attraction to anyone who is unavailable (almost the opposite of Bobby because competition over a person is asinine to me) and the attraction is rare and fades ridiculously quickly. I could never hold a crush for more than a month. When people ask me what I want in a partner, I always name extremely practical and boring things, almost like I just want a friend who is pretty to share my life with and maybe kisses me on the forehead and hold my hand sometimes. And while I DO want a version of marriage in my own life, "attraction" requirements be damned, the whole "straight time" thing really affects me, especially as a woman with our pressure to mate and have children. This musical is pretty important to me and it breaks my heart that it's hurt you so much. Though, I can respect why. I saw the 2007 Tony Awards where Raul Esparza performed "Being Alive" and even as a child it was burned in my brain. The pain of it. My queer reading of "Being Alive" are that even though people get married to feel close enough to someone to get that aliveness, Bobby didn't need marriage to feel that way. In the first song, the title of the musical, "Company" brought him joy, brought him fulfillment, through his friends. Because "that's what it's really about, isn't it?" Not necessarily partnership, just connection. I like to think that Bobby realizes he had that all along. Bobby's friends 100% are straight-minded assholes, don't get me wrong. But in finally "getting it" I like to think Bobby could finally let it go. Like, that's it. That's the thing. That's the thing we all want. Just...being alive. And he's been so hung up over this marriage thing (the idea of what he's supposed to do) that he has been doing the opposite. And I hope that gives him the courage to search for his own aliveness not through marriage but in a way that is authentic to him. "Alone is Alone not Alive" is kind of an ongoing discourse Sondheim was having with himself about aloneness like "No One is Alone" in Into the Woods which is partly about parents passing down trauma to their kids. I don't really see alone here as "single" I see it as...alone. Robert spends the musical as an observer. He isn't engaging with his life because he doesn't really know what he's supposed to do. "Another Hundred People" is about a City of Strangers that "find each other" and then go home. I think Bobby, surrounded by company, is lonely. A lot of adults struggle to make genuine friends. He supposes marriage must be an answer, but it isn't. Aliveness is the answer. That's just how his friends found it, but it may not be for him. Idk I don't necessarily think the song is about romantic love so much as it is...love. His friends that sign all his birthday cards "with love" don't really love him. Or maybe they don't think that their love could possibly be enough for him. Maybe both. But I guess I just think that because the show isn't called "Marriage" it's called "Company." The company you keep. I'm hopeful for Bobby to go out there and find real friends to be alive with and then go home to be alive by himself. Thank you for sharing your story. I know it might be silly of me to be optimistic considering the very real compulsory heteronormativity we face every day, but at least here with an open ending I can hope for a little light. I wish you the best, friend and please post more musical reviews because there aren't really enough perspectives on TH-cam about the nerdy "theatre kid" ones. :)
I'm very comfortable with both my gender identity and being asexual. I've pretty much given up on trying to give a label to my 'romantic' identity. Mostly because I still do not understand what people mean when they talk about having romantic feelings. Some people have told me this indicates I am aromantic. However, I am married and I am also in a poly relationship with another person and have been in poly relationships before. I definitely feel like there is some connection to my wife and partner that is different to the one I have with people I'd call friends - but I can't explain what that connection is.
I am in the same boat. I have no idea what "romance" is or what it's meant to feel like. I'm poly as well and all of my partners began as friends who I eventually become close enough to to want them in my life longterm. I can't figure out where this nebulous romance comes into. I don't know if this makes me aro or not, but I suppose it doesn't matter.