350 Legend vs 450 Bushmaster - The Straight-Wall Shootout
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- Mark Boardman and Ryan Muckenhirn have one goal - to shoot you straight on the 350 Legend and 450 Bushmaster. Ideal for deer seasons limited to straight-wall centerfire cartridges, they do a heck of job. But which one does the job better? To answer this question, they head to Vortex Edge®, shoot some gel and discuss the results.
Buy one, get one! Snag a FREE Blaze Vest Combo when you buy any Game Trail Hunt Sock. Simply add both to cart, and at checkout, you’ll get your blaze combo absolutely free. Sale ends November 12th. Shop now at: vortexoptics.c...
As always, we want to hear your feedback! Let us know if there are any topics you'd like covered on the Vortex Nation™ podcast by asking us on any one of our social media platforms and using #VortexNationPodcast.
Follow Vortex Nation Podcast on Instagram:
vortexnationpodcast
The 350 legend looks good on paper but I’ve never seen a caliber drop a deer like the 450 bushmaster. I have taken dozens of deer with it and I would say 90% drop right where they stood.
I have the ruger ranch in 450 bushmaster and for being a very affordable rifle it groups excellent. That being said I haven’t had the same experience as you. When I took it to sight it in I did it the same as any other rifle, pick a day with admirable conditions using my lead sled and good targets. I shot several groups of 3 and they never changed all touching one-another. I took a buck with it at 60ish yards, a perfect broadside shot directly behind the shoulder and it took off, only to stop 20 yards from where I initially shot I placed another in the neck dropping it in place. When skinning the buck I found the projectile between the ribs just behind the hide it had not completely passed through on my broadside shot. I also had shot a doe with the same rifle and she required 2 shots as well, 1st shot was 45-55 yards in the neck dropping her but as I was walking towards her she had picked her head up and was trying to move so I placed a second in her neck finishing her off. Let a buddy use this rifle as well he claims to have made a good shot on a buck that we tracked for miles (blood trail) to have never found it. So what I believe is I made a mistake with ammunition choice, I was using the Hornady Black 250 grain. I know it isn’t my fault with my shot as stated above I had perfect shots on both those deer. I think maybe switch ammunition to something like the Winchester and I might have better luck.
I’m currently prepping to go on my first hunt next (2024) season. I live in the limited firearms zone of mi so I’m looking at straight walled cartridges. 450 drops deer fast but I’m thinking about using 350 legend to avoid blowing a goofball sized hole in good meat. Is that an issue or am I being a moron😂
@@votive7478 I’ve seen the effects of 350 legend and 450 bushmaster on deer and yes, 450 bushmaster does seem to do more “destruction” to meat. As long as you put the bullet in the vital area you shouldn’t have to worry about either one ruining the meat.
@@votive7478 well according to the gentleman’s comment I’d say your good he claims to have taken many deer but if you read mine I’ve harvested 2 deer as well with the 450 but they both required a second shot. I think it’s my own fault because of using the wrong ammunition. I’d do some more research and go from there
@@HOFERBOY71there must be something else going on, because the 250 grain FTX bullet you’re shooting with the Hornady Black always gets it done for me and a few of my buddies that use it.
The 450 Bushmaster is becoming a legend. I know a lot of guys in SE Ohio that swear it drops deer better than anything they've ever used. The 450 BM will be killing deer for decades to come.
I don't live in a straight wall state, but i like straight wall cartridges. I hope a follow up to this video includes others like the new 360 buckhammer and 400 legend.
Same, I feel the 400 legend has the most potential and balance on paper let’s see how the cookie crumbles.
@@chadperry4021 Have any 400 Legends appeared in the wild? Last month, I couldn't find any.
No, they will release the gun next year according to articles on google. some people have had AR barrels made and are already shooting them but that is it.@@jfess1911
Would be great to have a .360 Buckhammer in there! Taking mine to Michigan over Thanksgiving
@@riphphquecaulk I like the Buckhamer. Then again, I like leveguns. It will be interesting to see if Hornady makes a Leverevolution 360 Buckhammer.
Thank you I'm convinced on the 350 versus 450 now... 350 versus 400 legend!
I sold my 45-70 after i built a 350 upper and tried it out for a season a few years back. After shooting the 350 and enjoying how fun of a cartridge it is to shoot i took it to the field for ohios gun season. I killed 2 deer with it the first year out and it killed them just as cleanly as my 45-70 did. So i got to realizeing i dont need a 300gr bullet going 2200fps to kill a whitetail inside of 100 yards it just felt unessary after seeing what the 350 did and i havent looked back since. I mean its not a power house cartridge by any means but try it out and you will realize you dont need a power house to kill whitetails in the woods. I dont feel under gunned at all and i grew up in PA hunting with a .270 win. I just dont see any benefit to using the 450 BM and 45-70 when i haven't had a deer go further than 50 yards with the 350. More recoil, more powder, more expensive bullets, heavier rifles for what to kill a deer at close range ? Food for thought gents.
I like your thoughts especially if you are someone who buys factory ammunition.
The one thing I will give the 45-70 is that in the hands of someone who handloads along with the proper firearm, you do have alot of versatility with it. Load it down light for the whitetails and other medium game, or load it heavy for the bigger north American game.
All while realizing your limitations with said cartridge in terms of distances.
@mr.fridggyyy5826 yep very true I handloaded for my 45-70 and as versatile as it is the only reason I owned it was for a strait wall option for hunting deer in ohio. For larger game I have a 300 win that I prefer to a 45-70. So that's why I let it go it is a very cool cartridge though It definitely has nostalgic to it and you feel pretty cool walking through the woods with a big bore lever rifle. I just found it a little over kill for my specific application.
My view of benefit as it relates to 45-70 is brush, and smaller vegetation will affect the round, much less. if needing to shoot through vegetation.
Can I ask you a question cause I am tore on a tactical 45-70 and my thoughts it would be a great all round gun , farm , woods , home, is there a reason you didn't stick with it ? Thank you in advance. EDIT... re-reading your comment answered my own question as it's mainly more for hunting for you .. I was thinking more all around for me , sorry should have paid more attention before asking
I have both 45-70 and 450 BM, why not just a tactical 450 Bushmaster? My Bushmaster ( factory) upper 450 is a single ragged hole at 100yards shooting hornady flex tip. It's tactical and affordable.
As a guy who recently moved to Ohio i can say im have been dying for this episode!
Heck yeah! It's a good one!
My hunting buddy took his .450 Bushmaster (16" barrel bolt-action) out for early NY deer/bear season this year. He took a medium doe and a large black bear with it. I saw the doe in person and can attest to how devastating the damage was with a factory Hornady 250 gr load. The exit was huge. He did not get a full pass-through on the bear, but it went down in about 40 yards.
If it's strictly a deer rifle or will be shot often, I say go with the .350 Legend for the less expensive ammo. If it's a rifle that will see a box of anmo for practice per year and you may use it on bigger game, I think the .450 gets the edge for me.
I would love to see the "poor man's magnum" showdown, US vs Europe: .35 whelen vs 9.3x62
I have both!!!
Look at the gel block with the 450 copper. It's permanent wound cavity is amazing.
I have been shooting my 450 BM since before the 350 Legend existed. I have not had a deer move more than 10 yds after being shot including a monster 275lb Buck.
I like the 350 legend, but I've flattened so many black bears and elk with 450 Bushmaster that I'm not inclined to switch.
Sounds awesome!
What projectile do you like for bear?
@@misterfister7262 I use the 250 grain Hornady FTX in the hand loads for my AR with a 20" barrel, which I like to use for elk at close range but would be plenty of medicine for a black bear at distances of less than 150 yards. I also handload the 300 grain Lehigh Defense Xtreme Penetrators for a bolt action Ruger American Ranch Rifle with a 16" barrel and use that primarily for black bears. That said, the Lehigh loads could easily be used on brown bear even if their muzzle energy isn't as high as what some people might prefer for Brownies. My apologies for sloppy grammar, very tired.
@@Velshard thanks for the reply! I'm thinking of 450 bm for my next rifle so I appreciate the feedback
@@misterfister7262 just my experience after having two rifles in 450 bushmaster, if I were to change anything I would rather have my bolt action with a longer heavier barrel 20-22" and my AR with a much lighter 16" barrel. Which I might do in the future.
Here in NW Ohio and SE Michigan the 450 is quite a bit more popular. Having said that I took my last deer with a 150grain Winchester 350 Legend. Dropped it in its tracks at 203 yards measured with my Vortex range finder. Can't argue with that kind of performance!
Smoked a moose w/ my Ruger .450 BM this year. Used the Barnes ammo suggested in the article. Shot the moose at 25 yards, it ran less than that before it collapsed. Bullet made contact at shoulder, blew through the shoulders thickest part of the crest, and although it didn’t get an exit, the round was found slightly mushroomed, no missing fragments, just under the hide on the opposite side of entry. At the range, love the accuracy of the .450 BM combined with the Barnes Vor-Tex ammo.
Sorry, you got this one wrong. 350 will not pass through @ 100yards if you hit the shoulder blade, we've seen it too many times. We can purchase 10 antlerless tags at one time and 2 buck tags, we have way too may deer so shooting them is mandatory. The farmers won't let you on if you're only trophy hunting. We have years of live field test. The 350 is fun to shoot but wounds a lot of deer.
So since yall did the 7mm PRC vs the 7mm mag, I think the 350 legend vs the 360 buck hammer is in order! Love these comparisons
We’ve taken over 60 deer on camera with the two cartridges and they both do a fantastic job. We’ve seen just as many deer dropped with the .350 as well. We have found premium bullets like the Bear Creek Ballistics .350 140gr high velocity are absolutely devastating. In the .450, off the shelf Hornady black ammo does come apart sometimes but shoots very good and kills quickly. You can’t go wrong with either one but I prefer carrying around a high performance .350.
I will be shooting Bear Creek 240hv 450bm this deer season in Illinois. Fantastic 3 shot groups at 300yds and 1500ft# of energy @300yds from CVA Cascade XT 450bm rifle. 3 hunting buddies also hunting with this combo. Similar performance in all 4 rifles.
We have both guns in camp and they are both great. Cant go wrong withe either one.Ammo advantage definitely goes to the .350. I built a .450 upper and its just flat out wicked. Chose it because I prefer a bigger bullet and you hit your game its utter devastation. Both are easy and fun to reload for too.
The .450 with the Hornady 395 gr sub-x is the king of suppressed eastern whitetail hunting. Laughably quiet with devastating results within 100 yards.
If you are a reloader you can use 147gr 9mm bullets for practice and plinking saves a little money.
As a user of Vortex socks…i have to say…great product. I use them in all weather. As for straight wall …LOVE LOVE LOVE my 350 Legend…even though I havent taken a deer with it yet…my son has shot 3 deer and with spectacular results. Its a ruger american ranch and is one of the most accurate guns I own.
Which round was used on them deer?
@@ryanr219 winchester super X 180 grain.
Should do another on these two regarding brush/foliage and barrier penetration like trees/wood like brush style usage
Even though the 350 wins in this test I would still go with my 450. Bigger bullet bigger hole more and faster blood loss. I would be curious to know the distance they test at. I use the 245gr. bullet in my hand loads and have not seen any signs of it coming apart like that
It might be worth noting that blood loss doesn't mean the blood HAS TO exit the body. I've had as much, if not more, success with the 350 with internal hemorrhaging as external hemorrhaging.
Really like the 350 Legend. Easy to shoot, very effective, cost effective, good for AR or bolt action.
Not the best for an AR, straight walls jam more unless the mag and ar itself work well for it specifically but it’s common to jam
I really like .350. In my opinion it's a better .300 Blk. You can load 90 Lehigh projectiles up to 3000 FPS, or you can get 255gr subsonic loads (and there are cast bullets available that weigh in at 280gr). It's super versatile, controllable, and easy to run in an AR. Such a neat little cartridge.
Not a straightwall though, that’s the point of these
Someone mentioned this but it would be cool to do a "poor mans magnum" test. A 35 Whelen versus "X". I believe the commenter mentioned 9.3×62.
Super excited for this! Thank you for listening to the recommendations!
Absolutely!
Is 45-70 not allowed in straight walled states?
@@lonegoose2844 Most straight walled states have a case length limit of 1.8 inches.
@@barkeater9606 ahh that explains it thank you
It is legal in ohio
I wasn't too keen for the 350 at first. After getting one. I have to admit, I love it.
same here.
I’ll keep my 450. It’s never failed me. It hammers anything on all fours out there.
These straight wall cartridges scream reloading. This is where they really dominate. Plinking suddenly becomes afordable and customizing your loads to your intended targets makes them shine.
The one caveat I’ve heard is that since the .350 Legend headspaces off the rim (like e.g. a .45 ACP), the reloader has to be quite meticulous with trimming cases to maintain consistent overall length, avoiding too much crimp, etc.
@FMDad-dm5qo Both the 350 and 450 being straight walled cartridges stretch very little. I have never had to trim 45 ACP brass or any other straight walled cartridges. Of course you can always use calipers to measure your brass before you load it.
Yep. 25 cents a bullet for 230 gr bulk. .452 bullets can be had stupid cheap despite their size. 450 BM uses thick brass at low pressures; I think spec max pressure is 38000 psi.
Love the cartridge comparisons videos. Haven't agreed with you on one yet, but still love em!
I got me a .450 in the Ruger American Ranch Rifle, it is by far my most favorite 300yd and in gun I have ever owned/shot, it pretty much lives in my truck. We call it "Thumper"
I find the 350 Legend oddly appealing; it’s like a new old-timey cartridge, a nice paradox. Some sneaky modern engineering built in there. It’s designed for bolt guns & semi-autos but feels like it should be chambered in lever guns. I’m not even in a straight wall state.
It just is darn effective. I don't need to use straight wall cartridges in maine, but shot are short. 100yards and under and it just knocks them out. Plus I use an ar15 platform and surprisingly I get 1.5inch groups at 100yards with winchester powermax bonded 160grain hollow points. Devastating bullet on whitetail and bear.
The 350 is the 6.5 creedmoor of the straight walls they market the hell out of it but when it comes down to it more deer have been wounded by those cartridges than any other cartridge
Excited can the winner face Ryan’s lovely 45-70 ?
There’s no replacement for displacement!
I run a 350 Legend in a 18" AR I built back in 2019 when the cartridge came to market. I taken many deer with it, but I only shoot 100yds and in. Bucks get it in the neck, does get it in the head. It works, but the bullets don't expand. I use Hornady 170gr and Federal 180gr soft point offerings. I live in Michigan's straight wall zone
I have the same experience. This episode makes me wanna try the copper Barnes bullet.
Do you recover each bullet? My question is how do you know they don’t expand? Is it just a tiny hole in and a tiny hole out?
You guys are always great and this is a cool series. I love the long blocks of gel, way better showcase
You can discount the recoil differential quite a bit when running both in an AR platform. My girlfriend is a shooting novice and I had to pull her away from my AR 10 in .308, because she was enjoying it too much. $$$. She also shot an AR platform 300 WM and didn't complain about recoil. I don't take issue with the findings of this test, but don't think there's enough of a difference to make a difference, and would like either one in an AR. As of now, I'd lean towards the 450 for subsonic shushed brush hunting. Someone made a good point about the heavier 450 being less likely to be diverted by branches, and someone else made a good point that the 350 can be loaded with 90gr bullets to go around 3K fps. I guess, if you wanted more versatility, the 350 wins out, but I would just use a straightwall for 0-75 yards, similar to 300BO, and 308 for anything further.
38-55 & 375 Winchester would like to enter the conversation
Love my 450, can hear it hitting the target at 100yd. Shes slow, but if she gets a hold of ya, watch out. The Ruger American is super smooth especially with the muzzle break. Only draw back is increasing ammo prices.
I really like the 350 legend. I Bagged a buck and doe this deer season.
I think the 400 legend embraces its straightwall identity a little more fully than the 350.
Seems like the ideal cartridge in this space but I don't think it will really catch on.
The 400 Legend is a rimmed straight wall cartridge. That limits it to lever action and single shot guns. The 350 is available in gas operated, bolt and single shot guns. I have ran both gas operated and single shot models 350's
@@snakeman48 are you confusing the 400 legend with the 360 buckhammer?
The ammo price and availability is a big factor for me so the 350 is just an upper and magazine for the platform I like. I think it really turns the ar into a good deer cartridge. I also think the Winchester deer season does more damage on impact than the soft point offerings from what I have seen.
The .450 offers the same thing as far as just being an upper and magazine swap into an ar lower.
@jkt7696 there's ar chambered in 450? Kindanutty
I hunt game not blobs of gelatin. I have had 450 Bushys for almost 15 years. I have never had any game walk away from the Thumper. I have ARs and Bolt rifles in the 450. Comparing the 350 to the 450 is silly. The 450 is a beast and the 350 is for kids and people that can't handle recoil. The ballistics are even comparable. You can say the 350 is a longer range gun but at a longer range the speed and energy are borderline for a clean kill on a deer size game animal.
Great take! I agree.
Geez someone’s butthurt. I guess the FBI is worried about defending themselves from blobs of gelatin right, because that’s what they use to test rounds as well. 🤦
It’s not the be all end all but it tells you something, and bullet design is just as important as caliber, which is why each caliber looked best with a different bullet
@@oblivionpro69 I think the review speaks more to what happens when certain men become frail and start getting low T, really lazy, that sort of thing. If they were reviewing what the best hunting round is for ladies then this would be an awesome review! If you start complaining how heavy your gun is to carry with you because of the bullet size, then what the heck are you going to do about hauling your kill out of the woods? I would be ashamed to post that on the internet.
@@AzSedonaAdventurer Honestly this all just wreaks of the exact opposite, very insecure men trying to compensate for poor self confidence with the bigger manlier cartridges, exact same types that drive around a giant truck with a lift kit and live in a suburban neighborhood. Nobody is impressed. Meanwhile in Alaska there is Inuit people using 5.56 AR to take down moose on a regular basis to actually feed people for a living and laughing at the lower 48 "hunters" compensating for bad aim with bigger bullets.
@@-Zevin- I imagined you saying this with a serious lisp. So by your logic shotgun owners are carrying unneeded cannon sized cartridges? I don't think that average men are upset about carrying an ar-15 or a larger cartridge around hunting. The weight difference is very minimal. I think when you start getting into complaining about how heavy certain bullets are and how heavy an AR-15 is that it's no longer about the rifle or cartridge but more about whether you should even be going on long hunts if you are not physically capable. How can you expect to carry large portions of game out of the forest if the gun is already too heavy? Or the bullet recoil is too scary? A .450 bushmaster is more like a shotgun in recoil but has many advantages over the 12 gauge projectile. Now you can hunt with whatever sized cartridge you want in Alaska. You can make those smug statements, sure. However when you don't kill that moose with the 5.56 and you track it and don't find it and night comes, then what? Those large predators will be out also tracking that moose all night. Also an animal that is shot and doesn't die right away from a small cartridge will be suffering and the meat won't taste as good as a quick humane kill. So by all means hunt however you want to. I'm the farthest thing from insecure and I also don't like those short men with their big trucks as well, that's just annoying and gamma. Also since you missed it my original comment was more of a trolling joke to poke fun at men getting bitchy and soft over cartridges and guns with minimal differences. It's just a bit of humor and a reminder to not get all soft and bitchy.
There were plenty of straight wall regulations in at least several states when the 450BM was introduced in 2007. The 450BM was created for use in the AR15 platform FOR straight wall only states. The bolt action 450BMs came out years later.
I love my 350 Legend. One in bolt and one in Ar-15. Right now Im looking at a CVA pistol. 350 legend or 300 blackout.
So happy reading through the comments. Zero argument. 450 is king if you want more. I can get 1 moa with 5 shots at 200 yards with reloads. But that's putting in the work. Also it's a brush gun. You can hit every branch and still hit the deer. However you want to hunt one week a year. With no effort 350.
After seeing quite a few deer shot with both they've all been recovered. However, the ones shot with the 450 are DRT. The deer shot with the 350 except for the one shot in the spine all ran and had limited blood trails for the first 40 or 50 yards. As a fairly big guy I will be opting for the 450 Bushmaster but have added the 400 legend to try to step the kids up to from the 350.
Love these videos, guys. Don’t stop. Please!
Excellent video... my fav part was at the end when the comparison results clearly favored one over the other but you still couldnt pick it. ha. That is exactly where I am. Two .350s in my safe and two .450s in my safe (bolt/AR for both) and we are 12 days away from opening day and I cant decide! ha. My bolt .450 is a cannon! So much that even with the adrenaline of a deer in front of me I am thinking about the recoil. But the .350 has been a challenge with lost deer. Entry/exit on .450 clearly better than .350 in our hunting camp. Mostly Hornadys. Have lost a few does from perfect .350 shots (have shot on video). Little to no blood because of small entry/no exit. Whereas the .450 does hit like a ton of bricks. NOTE..am switching to copper... Think this will help!!!! Game time decision coming!
Thats why i have both. Both have their time and place in the field.
How about adding a deflection score? Interested to see how each perform when grass or twigs are introduced as would/ could be while hunting.
I agree!
I hope they explain this with the 360 buck hammer and the new 400 legend and have a true shoot-out winning.
Some super slow motion would be awesome on those blocks. Thanks for this series, it is pretty cool
That’s a tough one. I couldn’t go with a 350 Legend, the thing is just so castrated. Even with a 165 Hornady FTX and a 20’ barrel you are at below 1000 ft-lb at 200 yards and at a speed where getting proper expansion is highly questionable. I’d rather get me a lever action in 360 BHMR.
The American Whitetail is a bit whimpy of a bullet in the .450 Bushmaster. In real world experience here in Mi, a gentleman I load for has taken 12 straight deer with zero walk-offs. I think that with the right bullet, it performs a lot better. I load mine with the Hornady XTP Magnum 240 gr. bullet and gain a much tougher bullet that expands well, without exploding. So much frontal area the American whitetail is just too soft a jacket for these velocities. I will state also though that you probably got a bit more velocity than we do, because we are shooting it out of an AR platform. I'd also state that if I were in an area with bear/hogs, I'd prefer the bushmaster, but I'm probably biased, because I don't own the .350 legend. Maybe someday I'll give it a chance, but not likely as I'm kind of a big bore lover.
Haha same. Maybe a little bias for the 450 but I think both cartridges are great!
I have both 350 and 450. The 450 flattens a hog where they stood. The 350 does not. The 350 kills them just not as fast. Im sold on the 450 bushmaster.
I feel like the Hornady 250gr FTX would be a better representation for the cartridge. Should have been included.
I tried both Barnes and hornady, my Ruger preferred the Barnes, but it was pretty close.
I really want a 450 BM, but only because it is the most compact platform for a subsonic deer rifle. 16’ barrel, overbarrel can and Hornady Sub-X handloads 😁. Other than that, not sure why anybody would want one.
You guys asked for input, here it is. I handload for magnum pistols (rugers) essentially What a handloader sees in these 2 is: 45 colt projectiles or 357 magnum projectiles, in the ar. I'd love to test on gel with the 450bm, 300gr xtp magnum on a stout dose of h110. You guys convinced me I need a 350.
Basically what I'm saying is that the lead you guys used, the 245, that's not showing the true dump of the 450. 300gr pills is where the 45 magnum thrives, the 170-180s are gonna be the highest SD pills to run at that speed in the 350. You guys did handicap the 450 a bit. A 300gr soft point would be interesting to compare.
Cast...well that's a different game, but also would be cool to see a gas checked Rimrock in both
Shootability: weeellll, yeah: on the bench. But out in the field on fir I can't EVER remember recoil. I shot a 200 lb. feral hog last night with a hot 30-06 180gr. In the dark, completely surprised, walked right up under my stand, snap, shoot. BOOM, dead pig. Fist pump in the air. Was I flinching from recoil? WHAT RECOIL!
I know I'm probably the only one who thinks this but I'd love to see you guys do one of these on 17hmr vs 22 mag
Me too
One of the most entertaining sessions I have seen. I have rifles in both of these calibers...AR platform for the 350 and bolt gun for the 450. Maybe you guys could do a shake down for these calibers on the two different platforms.
Shot placement...they both hold their own...
Are you going to dive into the 400 legend too? Please and thank you.
I think these cartidge comparisons are great. But they lack a certain amount of real world application like field reports. What are hunters and guides saying? For example, I have worked with guide services for hog who would not allow hunters to take a 350, but would gladly have a hunter use a 450. And while I am sure there is more to this, I have heard of and seen a lot of hunters losing deer with a 350. 450 is kind of know for bang-flop-dead deer. My bias is probably showing. I went with the 450. And I think that the 350 is perfectly adequate for deer hunting in straightwall states as intended. But it is not the round I would take for a big old boar either on hoof or pad.
I would like to see a comparison between the 45-70 and the 450 Bushmaster.
No way guys. You can film your love letter to the .30-30 in a straight-wall case all you want. Did Winchester pay you for this review?
So let's call a spade a spade: What barrel length did you use? Why do you try qualify everything for "deer sized game"? Why not go apples to apples and run comparable loadings given the massive gr and loading differences available for the .450.
Ron Spomer did this comparison months ago and gave a way more fair and accurate review. Do better.
All in on 45-70
I am waiting on the 400 Legend. 350 and 400 Legend are very close to the old 351 and 401 Winchester self loading cartridges. IMO, the 350 Legend’s 55,000 psi chamber pressure is too high for a case that headspace on the mouth. You have to be very careful on your crimping. I’m not sure how long that will hold up. The 400 Legend has a pressure of 45,000. Also, the 450 Bushmaster has only 38,500, which is probably the best cartridge for long term use.
I did comparison for energy between 12 gauge rifled slug vs 450BM and 350 legend.
I live in a Straight wall state so I usually use a 12 gauge. Tired of odd accuracy I've decided to get a rifle in AR format.
Energy ft LBS
100 yards 12g slug = 1185
50 yards 12g slug = 1656
100 yards 450BM = 1868
50 yards 450BM = 2253
100 yards 350L = 1274
50 yards 350L = 1527
Nobody will question a 12 gauge slug has enough power to drop a deer yet people doubt the 350L? The 350L has more energy than 12 gauge at 100 yards. It's a myth that this round is somehow not enough. Especially with specific ballistic rounds, the wound is very similar to a 12g slug.
Now, the 450bm is FAR out exceeding the 12 gauge slug in terms of knockdown power and overall damage. At 50 yards, you're overkilling this deer with an extra 578ft/lbs. At 100 yards, your 683 pounds over a 12g slug. Plus a large dia round = a large hole, Combined with hollow point rounds for hunting... - 450bm is devastating. (And yes, It's power is far above the 350L)
Summary
At 100 yards the 350L has light recoil, and has similar effect as a 12 gauge slug. (Perfect for hunting deer - especially if you're new)
At 150 yards the 450L has shotgun like recoil, and has the same (if not better) effect as a 12g slug.
The 350L is better at range as accuracy equates to better shot placement which is massive. Wind is massive player when shooting further. The 450L would be theoretically better, but practically at the 175 yard range the 350L is better. IF we assume we are hitting vital areas. If your proficient with the 450L, it does have more punch even at range.
Get a 450BM IF:
You're hunting in a heavily wooded/ brush environment
Low to no wind
50 Yards to 150 Yards
You don't mind recoil
You want the deer super dead
You think it's cool
Get a 350 Legend IF:
You're new shooter
Don't like the recoil
Mild windy areas (Corn fields)
50 Yards to 150 Yards (or longer)
You agree a 12g slug is sufficient in killing deer and don't need insurance with overkill power.
You like cheap ammo
Note: Whichever you buy, I'm confident you will like it!! They're both amazing rounds. It's only in comparison we can complain and point but both are going to get the job done!
I would love to see a 300 blackout vs something else in the same category
M1 carbine. Very similar
Take it from someone who shoots both and used these cartrages on large bodied game. The 450 BM is hands down the winner.
Sounds like someone getting a kick back from 350 legen . Think I'll be going with 450 bushmaster.
I'll take the.450 and the 45.70 all day. The.350 just let me down
Great episode! I like both cartridges but had issues getting the 350 to cycle in my AR…Returned that upper and bought a 450 BM…Looking forward to trying it out this fall…
Are you running soft points, hollow points, or fmj through your rifle? Most AR/AK style rifles only feed fmj reliably. At least, this has been my experience.
@@terryhealan6821 I was running hunting type ammo…originally I ran some FMJ thru it and it was pretty reliable but the soft points wouldn’t run at all
I've heard that the Brenton USA magazines work well
@@kenconti7053 I’ve never heard of them…the fact that I had so much trouble with 350 legend made me lose interest in it…luckily I have a 450 bushmaster that shoots well….just can’t afford to shoot it😂
As I get older, I am choosing lighter recoil over power. Surprisingly, the .450 isnt noticeably more powerful like I expected it to be. At least in this test, obviously other folks might have a little different result. I have been on .350 Legend side for a while and will continue to be. You guys have another great episode here. Cant wait to see more in the future.
Obviously 450 Bushmaster is a more powerful round but 350 has the AR compatibility advantage. The ammo cost is a big one also
Can you do a video on the 400 legend? I just bought one and pick it up in 2 weeks and I’m not finding very much information on them and the info I am finding on the is AR style videos when I purchased the savage axis 2 xp 400 legend. Everything I see if it’s more power then the 350 legend and can shoot farther with more energy at impact then a 450 bushmaster.
The 400 legend coming out! Next test!!!!
I could be wrong but I think the .450 BM doesn't need energy to drop animals at further ranges just solid construction. Similar to how in the army testing the .45-70 with a 500gr produced lethal(punched through a 1" pine board and 18" of sand) wounds at 3600yrds
450 all the way sometimes you cant track deer here cause of how thick the woods are
PA Just became a straight wall state for a shotgun Substitute in some WMUs. . sticking with my SAVAGE 220 for now 👍🏼
🙌🙌🙌
One very interesting thing about 450 bushmaster that I have heard from reloads is that you can fill the case completely full of powder... So i tried that out and packed a 250 grain bullet and a 135 grain bullet with a completely full cartridge and shot them. No pressure signs and that 135 was really fast and soft shooting. It was weird I don't actually recommend this (the 250 kicked like a mule) but booth were very accurate.
Most hunters here in Michigan like the bigger caliber/heavy bullets. I like the .350 for the lower recoil, and I can't use my 45/70 here, so getting a .350 legend for the sake of something different! Oh, and legend ammo is cheaper as far as I have found.
Get ready for the .41 GL. It is currently undergoing SAMMI certification and is designed to bridge the 350 L and the 450 BM. More hitting power than the 350 and less than half the felt recoil of the 450.
Great vid, beautiful production. Needs some B-roll while the data is being rattled off. Maybe a little outdoor hunting skit where you shoot a 2-liter or a seasonal fruit. Maybe a mag load with some thoughtful appreciation of the cartridge.
I'm Farr from an expert but I was very unimpressed with the 350 legend. I sold it and bought a 450 and I'm very impressed with it
My personal experiences I’ve taken both whitetails and wild hogs with both of these rounds. Both rifles have 16” barrels. Ranges varied from 40-110 yards. Hands down the 450 Bushmaster beats the pants off the 350 legend. 450 drops them in their tracks or they only make it a few steps. 350 (for me atleast) hasn’t dropped anything in its tracks , or left a blood trail. With the 350 everything I shot ran 30-70 yards before expiring.
To sum it up yea the 350 is good but it isn’t close to the 450 in the woods. I don’t care what it looks like on paper.
I just got back from killing some hogs in Texas. Took out the 350 for the last half of the hunt. I shot a sow at under 100 yards, and the bullet literally sucked her brain out as it passed through. She was dead before the bullet exited her skull. The Hornady 170s are absolutely devastating to medium-sized game at 200 yards and under. The 350 is an absolute joy to shoot.
My concern with the 350 continues to grow. 3 deer I've seen taken with it this year have all run over 150yds with dbl lung shots, the buck went over 400. 2 deer I've shot with 450 have gone under 50yds.
I have the opposite experience... I have taken 4 deer with my 350 and none went over 50 yrds. Honestly, I dont think there is a rhyme or reason to these things. Both are great rounds tho
Great video, great production value, great set, great talk.
I’d love to see 6.8 spc vs 6.5 Grendel vs 6 arc. Or 7.62 39 vs 300 bo.
There's a couple of channels that have done really good really fair comparisons of the 6.8spc vs. 6.5 grendel.
I'm a big fan of my 6.8spc amazing performance and fun to shoot in Semi-Auto!
@@buckshott00 I’ve looked and can’t find a gel comparison. A lot comparing the though.
Try the 450 out of a MSR and the recoil becomes 20 gauge ish. Put a brake on it and it really tames it down. I have used both and with a brake I prefer the 450.
I love my 350 legend. I took two does with us last year. One ran 15 yards and dropped. The other was a liver shot and it ran about 50. The only gripe I have is that there wasn’t much of a blood trail on that second one. The recoil just makes it so much fun to shoot. It kicks less than my old 3030.
I would love a comparison - I known, I sound super euro - between the newer 350 Legend, 450 bushmaster, older 45-70, and the 9.3x62, 9.3x74R, 9.3x64 Brenneke
I enjoy you gents, I am happy to glean some information, but I prefer a less scripted presentation like the podcasts. I enjoy banter and anecdotes.
The hunters have already decided, and the 350 Legend is the clear winner over all other straight wall cartridges.
Hate to see videos where they clearly stack the deck against a certain product. Like we are stupid and don’t have access to ballistic charts. I bought the 450 bushmaster because of the field reports of 350’s shortcomings, and I’m not afraid of recoil. There’s a new player in the game though. I have not shot it yet but the 360 Buck-hammer is looking like the new leader of the pack !