🔥 as always. I feel like this whole "the left is failing men" rhetoric is in part yet another example of how men are socially manipulated for other people's gain. It's a rallying cry for engagement by validating a victim complex that's built on blaming marginalized people (especially women), not the empathetic outreach it's masquerading as. It essentially boils down to "Other people aren't helping you, and you *should* be mad about it!" when so many of us have been tirelessly challenging the systems that subjugate all of us, and trying so hard to call them into that effort and sense of unity.
That's...that not what of that 'rhetoric' means, and are you equating the Left to just mean marginalized people because while we may make up a huge portion that not what anyone means when they say the Left is failing men.
Frankly, that 60% of high school teenagers accurately assessed themselves as not understanding politics shows a level of self-reflection that I wish was shared by a most adults.
@@ChromeDestinythinking about ….where 90% of the population have already made their decision after reading their data is being blatantly sold (most have deleted the app)
@@ChromeDestiny Definitely should. I know your comment is 4 months old, but in that time Facebook has become so fucking toxic. Angry people everyone being angry in the comments.
"The feminists have stood up and taken just a nice little dropper of poison and put it into the pool of rhetoric. What I'm concerned about is that, as a nation, as a culture, we are literally swallowing these images of men and women." Sir, you are literally standing in front of a framed logo of the Playboy Bunny...
I’m 31 years old and have been a feminist since I was 12, and I’ve yet to hear a single feminist argue for the mistreatment of men. Ever. The feminist agenda has never been about men. That’s what I wish people understood. Feminism is about achieving social equality and codified human rights for women; a goal which has still not been reached, not by a long shot. If you think that allowing an oppressed group to achieve social equality is an “attack” against the group in power, then that only indicates that the group in power considers themselves fundamentally entitled to the right to oppress the others. AKA: It’s a you problem if you think feminism is “poisoning” society, because women make up half that society, so why wasn’t the playing field level to begin with?
This is one of the main reasons I stepped away from the online left to prioritize IRL action. If you want to help men, then we have to actually help them, not just talk in circles about it. Great video as always!
@@BeautifulEarthJa Talking is good to a point, but people need actual material relief to really trust what somebody is saying. The Panthers had a food program, community defense squads, and free clinics for this reason. Theory-Praxis-Theory, the relationship is dialectical.
I feel it is easier to get a man to talk to you IRL than it is to convince them with posts online. Like, I couldn't care less if a man on the other side of the world saw a tweet and changed his ways, to me it is much more effective to talk to my male friends and help them through things. Lend an ear when they are struggling, offer some physical contact if I am comfortable they won't take advantage, try to make them see me as a human like them and not part of the contents of a trophy case, you know. Sometimes they are even more vulnerable than women are - once my husband was showing me Bojack Horseman and in a particular scene, someone grabs his junk to make a point. At the end of the scene, I was uncomfortable and said "well, that was SA" and he bluescreened. He had to change the sexes around in his head to recognize that, if it was reversed, it would be SA, so that scene was also SA. He watched the whole show alone before and it never occurred to him. I can make way more progress inside my community by engaging with it than talking to the void through a screen.
@@LunaWitcherArtSo much respect for this outlook. I had an acquaintance pass away in recent months due to complications from decades of alcoholism, and by all accounts, there was no real discussion in his circle of friends about what he was struggling with and if he needed real help. I'm not saying he didn't bear responsibility, but it seemed like he really was alone. It really shook me up. I started to see how my own friends were struggling and I've been trying to reach out. I have had my own struggles, and with time I realized I was so inwardly focused that I didn't really see that others could be hurting too. It sounds awful in hindsight, but some part of my brain couldn't fathom that just because I'd had it bad, that didn't mean that others could need help. I'm still working on it--I don't want to leave them hanging like this person was. And Bojack hit me hard when I watched it. It does a great job of turning a story about an incurable narcissist into a story about mental health and redemption. It's really good to see it having an effect on others too.
I just wanna say, as testimony, that my life is 1,000% better in every possible way since I left Twitter (and other social media). I'm touching so much grass that now I'm touching grace, boys.
"I don't think everyone is built for every conversation" oof yes. Just having the wisdom to realize you are ill equipped or emotionally leading on something serious will have a huge impact on people not absorbing the wrong message from you. I appreciate people who observe the practice of "I'm going to think on this for a minute" lol
I think this guy made a really good video about masculinity but he and the other creators he mentioned don’t know what men’s issues are and are unable to talk about them like they are easily able to talk about other group’s issues so this is not a conversation for them to have. It’s so toxic to downplay men’s issues and these guys even think they don’t exist. Yes the Econ being bad hurts men and everyone but stuff like dropping out of school, workforce and severe loneliness and dating issues are specifically male. For women’s issues we don’t and should never have to always bring sexual assault against men when talking about women. On that it’s so toxic center everything around women’s issues in a video about men’s issues. Yes patriarchy is relevant to bring up but they think the conversation is done everyone is content after patriarchy is brought up. Nobody talking about patriarchy ever wants to actually help men
When I'm emotionally leading, I usually know and don't care. Honestly, I have too few constructive outlets. When I don't feel the need to be emotional, I can think constructively. But in the heat of the moment it does no good to try.
I started realizing how much people hate this thing of "thinking before making a decision" in certain topics, but in the end that's what everyone wanted to do and can't, since they'll criticize each other for it lol.
@@appleswithpeanutbutter609im going to say I haven’t seen the video yet but I’m aware of a couple of the controversies involving those creators. Being autistic is a possible explanation not an excuse. Might make you unaware of how something might come off to the majority of people but that doesn’t mean it didn’t cause any harm or influence on others. Autistic people aren’t toddlers. We are capable of understanding when we have messed up even unintentionally and are capable admitting our fault. It is infantilizing to say we can’t see how our actions had unintended consequences and apologize afterwards and learn from them
That “what do conservatives stand FOR” point is extremely poignant. They share an extremely reactionary perspective on America. Conservatives too often fall for that “they’re coming for our kids”, fear-mongering rhetoric. Stand FOR nothing, fall for anything. Great vid!
I think it's worth pointing out that it's rather difficult to discern whether the size of MRA reactionary bullshit is increasing, or it's just rapidly approaching 100% visibility for the figures themselves.
Honestly I think it's increasing. How many studies has it been now showing young men are in crisis. 2022 had the highest male suicide rate on record and what is the left doing about it? The right is definitely swindling these young men for a quick buck but at least they are acknowledging their issues while we spend all day demonising "cis-men" confusing the political and economic male elite for the average man barely holding it together. How much more proof does there need to be?..we have to do better.
@@GuerrillaGorilla023Yeah but it's also in a negative feedback. MRAs can't date while publicly being MRAs. Those who do end up in a relationship can't keep it going into marriage because they have unsustainable ideas on relationships.
Kind of the same with conspiracy theories. People have always believed in crazy shit, it's just easier to connect now with the internet. But then again the flood of misinformation, and intentional misinformation put out by the Internet Research Agency is a real thing.
As a young person I think a lot of us respond with things like “I don’t know” is because we have grown up with so much info from everywhere all of the time without the ability to process things it seems easier and (at least in my case) more considerate to say “I don’t know”. Because, there are so many issues and nuances in our world and that we know we are gonna be the ones left to try and fix it. We are exhausted and don’t wanna fuck anything or anyone over. I was born in a post 9-11 world and so I don’t know what it was like before, but from what people say, my “normal” seems so dystopian to others. It’s frustrating because theres so much fear all around, but fear is tiring. To be completely honest, I’m not entirely sure what the exact point of this comment is, but I wanna say that it makes sense we most often reply with things like “I don’t know”, because as soon as you think you might know something, you could very easily be proven otherwise, and shunned for it. If you say “I don’t know” you are giving yourself protection against any potential opposition.
Honestly, that's a lovely quality to have. It's wonderful to hear someone say "i don't know", because it lets you know that you can trust them to not lie to you for their own ego. 'Cause when they DO know something, you can be sure they _actually_ know what's up and aren't talking out of their ass :) P.S. I think you're right, btw. Growing up with access to such an absurd amount of information, younger people have always been confronted with the reality that it's completely impossible to know even a teeny-tiny fraction of the sum of human knowledge (even 1% would be crazy). There's just way, way too much data for any one brain, so as a consequence y'all are a lot more comfortable saying "yeah I have no clue". (I like it a lot more than the boomer "oh, I will confidently answer this query I know literally NOTHING about because nobody ever told me I'm full of shit", anyway..)
@@idontwantahandlethough thank you so much! 😊 And I agree, Ive found its much more beneficial in the long run to say you don’t know something than it is to try and give an answer that you don’t have ( as I have also seen with a lot of boomers)
Oh definitely, if I don’t know something and can’t call up someone who does know, then I just say “I don’t know” because for all the information that we may have, there are always going to be gaps, especially when you’ve grown up in various times, I was born a few months after 9/11, so there are going to be things that are foreign to me that wouldn’t be to someone 10 years older the same way there are things I might understand more than they do
My outlook was dystopian from the get and that was '82. Absentee father and the inability to just ignore so many idiotic societal constructs made life so much of a chore. Everywhere you look is some needlessly 'macho' dipshittery. Never mind the economic brain death the US has. What makes me sad is how it took the internet for more people to start seeing how poorly we do everything.
Living in a very left wing area and being left wing I definitely have experienced that many of the loudest “feminists” avoid nuance and outright do not want to entertain the idea that men are able to be oppressed under capitalism or that there might be double standards in society that negatively affect men. They view that conversation as being harmful to women. And I do think it’s more of an issue with these people being the loudest and most active, not necessarily being a majority. I find this attitude to do damage to the overall movement of the left. We gotta have nuance and we gotta be able to hear each other out
The problem with this though is it always breaks down into issues other groups suffer as well. Certain issues are just unique to women in terms of capitalist oppression. For instance not being hired because women are supposed to be in the home, while not technically legal theres still a lot of employers out there who are like that. For instance men complain they have a higher chance of dying on the job, but when you look into its all jobs that notoriously dont hire women due to a long standing culture of "its a mans job". Which is really how you see the cycle of this stuff. Men want to protect their claim to some sort of honor, being the ones who take the brunt, but women being able to do those jobs as well is a threat to this claim to victimhood. They ironically become the oppressor just to show they have some claim to oppression.
@@Tinylittledansonman but that's just it. Just kinda brushing off that stuff as "a culture of 'its a mans job'" doesn't exactly make for a welcoming environment for men who may not necessarily feel comfortable in conservative spaces, but are otherwise isolated or feel different from leftist spaces. If we want to be truly intersectional, we have to treat them with the same empathy we give to more marginalized peoples.
@@lman318 At some point "uplifting women" mutated into "vilify all men". I don't know why. Maybe the wrong people made it into authoritative positions. You cannot bring up issues that men face without it being brushed off, having the blame put on yourself, or paying lip service to women's issues first. It's an actively hostile environment to men and people just don't want to admit it.
@@Tinylittledansonman You pretty much exemplified exactly the thing you tried to deny. Instead of acknowledging the suffering of men, you tried to explain it away, to gaslight and distract. Because even if you were somehow correct in your claims, which you are factually not, it would still solve absolutely nothing. Okay, so let's assume men are more likely to die in certain jobs solely because those employers don't hire women. So what? Does that stop men from dying? Does that negate the phenomenon of more men dying? Does that negate the existence of the double standard? Does that help men? Does that allow men to feel more welcome in this conversation? Or did you simply use hollow rhetoric to callously dismiss the suffering of men and actually blame them for it? Because, from what I see, all you tried to do was to find a way to invalidate men's suffering. You are literally doing the thing you are claiming doesn't happen.
@@noxteryn I didnt though? I explained why its generally bad faith discourse which purposely ignores the point that we live in a patriarchal society so these are issues only men can fix. Basically when discussing feminism it doesnt make sense. Why would you be asking women to fix issues that exist on a male to male level? Just to talk over them? It seems to always spiral into simply blaming women once again lol.
Men have failed men. Instead of encouraging each other and the youth to understand themselves, most of us have been teaching and encouraging the idea that manhood is a performance and that somehow as males we have no value until we learn how to make a dollar. It should be no surprise that so many are choosing to no longer live. Our obsession with hiding our insecurities with symbols of power and hierarchy climbing has been slowly killing us. We are failing ourselves.
MRAs and people get angry at the word patriarchy never EVER admit these things. They either believe there's been a secret cabal of women who've been controlling dudes since Adam & Eve or all the bad things men do like hazing and torturing and bullying are done in the name of making men stronger/better.
Excellent point. White man from north east England speaking. Boys and men need historical perspective and to be encouraged to focus on gathering knowledge. Knowledge allows us to see a world beyond the self. We are not all the same as one another but the difference is not as great as we would like to imagine. Peace to you and yours.
This was so powerful, smart, and kind. As a wife to a husband, a mom and stepmom to three young men, and a mental health advocate, I see firsthand how men are struggling. I want men to be mentally well - with or without women - because healthy men help make the world better for us all. Thank you for making this video.
One of the things I love about this channel and his approach.. he's human. He ain't perfect. I dont think he'd ever claim to be, but he always at least attempts to see wtf the root is in a situation. That usually leads to kindness. I'm betting it has to do with his time teaching students he didn't identify with (talked about it in his Burnham vid). Empathy is a powerful ally.
Not because you care about them as intrinsically valuable human beings. Because it will make the world better. Would it kill you to just care about men for their own sake?
I looked at this and said “I remember being a 12-grader… and I didn’t know or didn’t care about political self-identification” Glad to know I was part of the 60% 😂
It's pretty normal. I've been a-political my whole life until it was forced down our throats by the media starting around 2014. Today kids are being taught divisive political subjects in school. We didn't have that issue.
I think todays politics and the politics of years ago is very different. We didn't have open nazi's back in the early 2010's as an example. They were hidden. Now, folks can just spout nazi rhetoric and nobody bats an eye. Its easier to be brought into the world of politics when there's something to fight for that is in your face. This is why, I believe, that if it werent for the Ben Shapiro's of the world, that 60 percent would be much lower. Because a lot of right-wing content larps as 'Center leaning' or non-political when its not.
@@FictitiousCtrlGames It looks like someone deleted my response to this. I wonder if this one will be deleted as well. There were definitely open nazis back in the 2010's, it's just that nobody cared about them. They weren't in the news because they were insignificant in number (and still are). Today the media tries to make you think there's a nazi around every corner, every person who says something mildly right wing may be a "dog whistling nazi". There may even be a nazi under your bed! They're literal boogie men now. Total paranoia. Are you joking about spouting nazi rhetoric and nobody bats an eye?? Even if someone says something considered right wing, they get banned from social media. Actual Nazi rhetoric can get police knocking at your door.
It's how a lot of franchises keep their financial footing. They need conservatives to keep saying crazy shit so they can make that the backbone of their program. That keeps casual traffic up and reassures ad buyers that the deep issues will stay in the background. They need audiences to feel more than they think. If the hosts can slip in a reminder now and then about how they really feel about those issues - _but not how they think_ - it can reach millions. But honestly they can't even do a weekly segment on those topics or they immediately lose audience and influence.
i really love how your second channel has deep and meaningful content, because while I love video essays, my life is less and less accommodating to the longer videos. Its nice to just pop on a 20 minute video to get a little bit more informed and entertained in my small periods of free time
Misogyny is so consistent over time. Even before the 60s, the thrust of a lot of literature was that women were the jailers of men, and abandoning them was the only way to be free. Henry Miller, Jack Kerouac, so many writers I love reading treated the women in their stories not as characters but obstacles for their protagonists to overcome. I'm still recovering from the havoc these works wreaked on my worldview at 36 years old. That being said, my favorite part of this video was your emphasis on peoples self regulation and introspection as paramount in having productive discourse. It is so important for us to assess where we are, what we can handle and what we have to offer to know how to do good work and change what we dont like about the world going forward.
This! As a lover of literature and a person who grew up around writers. I spent YEARS worshipping at the alter of important white men, who wrote important white men stories. Giving lip service to those exact authors. Putting myself in men’s shoes and drowning in internalized misogyny. It wasn’t until I started reading plays that I began to doubt the genius of these men. (Thank you David Mamet! For being just nasty enough that I had to call bullshit. That teacher play 😵💫😛.)
Some women ARE jailers of men. Abusive relationships can be difficult to cut off after all, be you a man or a woman. And I think women are taught to be catious around men more then men are tought to be cautious of dangerous women.
@@principleshipcoleoid8095 I find that in many cases, society at large will even cover up for and deny the existence of abusive and dangerous women. Plenty of mothers are abusive to their kids. How often do you hear about abusive fathers/step-fathers but never about abusive mothers/step-mothers, who often use psychological abuse versus physical abuse?
Your thing about some people being too young to know that this is history repeating itself is so real. A lot of the times I see shows like King of the Hill being discussed and kids will think a character like Dale predicted the rise of Q-Anon, never realizing that the seeds for that shit have been around for a long time.
For the record, as a 12th grade white boy I’m not a conservative. But what you said about social media for teenagers is right, theres so much red pill type content that gets shoved at me by algorithms even if I never watch them. Problem isn’t with the left “failing men” it’s with capitalism. I think just looking at the real world and having real world experiences off the internet is enough to deter any young person from conservatism. It’s hard to stare at the blatant problems all around you and still think conservatism and capitalism are a good idea today.
Also, just having enough real world experience makes it really easy to see the red pill bullshit peddled online that's pandered to us men for what it is: bullshit. I see their assertions on what the world is really like to be incredibly false every day.
Shit I’m a 29 yr old bisexual mom… even I get redpill/right wing content in TH-cam shorts and no matter how much I click do not recommend I still get it pushed onto me, even in my recommended under left wing content. I imagine it’s a million times worse for boys and men. It sucks that their insecurities are being taken advantage of in this way. I have to help the guys in my life purge their social media of toxic people when they ask me. They’re not even that political they just get annoyed at the same bs being shoved their way over and over and over
Any attempt to break politics down into two camps - no matter how you call them - can do the complexities and realities justice. Odds are you hold a mix of views opinions and convictions and depending on which of those you voice, strangers will put different (and in many cases wildly contradicting) labels on you. Now: sometimes those labels will be used as weapons to shame and silence you. That‘s what right-wingers try to do, when they call someone a socialist or a commie, it‘s what lefties do, when they call someone areactionary or a fascist and it‘s what feminists do, when they call someone a sexist or an incel. I hold many views that are considered leftist. But there are some issues on which I disagree with the left. Other leftists called me fascist so many times, I no longer want to be associated with them. This kind of incessant purity testing a d outcasting each other over the tiniest of diagreement has plagued the left ever since it started with the European labour movements of the early to mid 1800s, which greatly reduce the political left‘s effectiveness and is why capitalism still exists in its current form.
Lowkey I’ve been focusing on myself and getting somewhat push back on it. I’m in my mid 30’s and realized I haven’t been focusing on my mental health and what I want. I’ve always been a supportive person for other people and no one has asked what I want for myself. That’s why I feel like it’s important to recognize where you are in life mentally. If you’re not happy with yourself then you’re not going to be a help to others. Trying to talk about this with my traditional mom and dad has been a challenge (they want me to marry soon). Sorry for the long rant but this video did hit me hard.
Mid-twenties and doing the same. I just want to focus on my hobbies and my mental health going where I want to go and doing what I want to do/developing as a person in the ways that I want to develop and prioritizing that over considerations of other people as long as it’s not hurting anyone, of course. Good luck on your self discovery journey friend :-) it’s really nice to know other people out there are doing it and it’s not selfish.
Traditional people don't want to hear that they've been doing things the wrong way. It's a very human reaction. And just like when focusing on yourself in therapy, you have to accept and understand those emotions as reasonable reactions in and of themselves, as opposed to fighting and repressing them, which is both difficult and serves no purpose. Instead of fighting an emotion, it would be better served to understand the underlying value. The further from a root you stray, the more diverse things become, that is to say, the same root could have many different expressions. And values are very root to the human experience. While a mother may want you to marry, and you may want to focus on yourself, and you two see these two things at odds with one another, you both may value the same thing: your success and happiness. And once you both can accept that, the discussion can center not on the emotionally charged debate of whether or not the value is being appreciated, but on the grounded manner of how, in current times, that is best achieved.
Being a "Shock Jock" has become the norm in media. Even sports media deals in hyperbolic discourse now. You were definitely spot on highlighting Howard Stern.
I don't know if you've never had a job or understand how money or resources work, but TH-cam became what it had to be to become monolithic, if it made any slight changes it would give away the power that it has to another platform, which for the most part would probably be worse, like kick or rumble, sure this would take years at this point, but your 2D world view of companies purely being bad because of capitalism shows a real lack of world experience or real struggle
I rarely comment on TH-cam videos nowadays, but I think its important to voice my thoughts on this. As with literally everything in the universe, the "left is failing men" is a lot more nuanced than at first glance. In my opinion, both sides "fail men," just at different points. A great deal of the left is unwilling to listen to the struggles men face, while the conservative right provide false solutions to their problems. But the difference is that it feels like the conservative right cares about you. That "care," however, is at the expense of others.
That's exactly what I'm thinking. And like I said to another comment, I believe this is why we got the rise of the whole "Gigachad", "Alpha", "Sigma" male stuff on the internet that spread throughout communities in general.
Completely agree with these points. As a person in both breadtube and MRA spaces, I can tell you exactly why this happened. Most men in MRA spaces (myself included), don't believe that patriarchy (as many in left-wing have framed it -- e.g. a class movement by men to assert long-term supremacy over women) exists. Quite simply, because that's not how society came into existence. the current power structures that empowered men are a natural outgrowth of the increasing sizes of pre-civilizational tribes needing a hierarchical structure to manage them. Of course, now that we have entered an industrial and post-industrial political and economic situation, such structures are no longer necessary, certainly not necessary in the ossified pre-modern forms. Equality should be a goal at this juncture, and that includes the empowerment of minorities and women. However, because society was created with certain roles for men in that pre-modern society, many of the assumptions of how men were to be used and abused in that system (such as being sent to die in war, being seen as economic inputs rather than as human beings, such as being disregarded as an important domestic partner or child-raiser, such as being seen as more potentially criminal, etc.) continue to be pervasive stereotypes. And, my experience is, that despite how willing the Left is to confront the incorrect and malevolent stereotypes concerning women and minorities, they support and empower these stereotypes about men in the incorrect belief that doing so will serve to empower women and minorities. Conversely, the conservatives lens these negatives positively, making them appear to be caring whereas the Left appears to be glorifying the failures. I don't understand why people on the Left don't simply address how neoliberal economics has made it impossible for the vast bulk of men to be able to secure the kind of economic and personal future that most men aspire to and the particular benefits of collective bargaining, industrial collectives, the strength and need for blue collar work, and, perhaps even the future beyond work. Perhaps people on the Left can address where men can be contributors rather than claim that male suffering is some comeuppance for a class war that they reject even happened.
i mean i think its dangerous to treat all people of 'insert group of people here' the same, seeing as how big the conservative right is you CANT treat them the same, take a million people as far as im concerned, 60-70% of them are idiots, 20% know that they are idiots to some degree 15% are just not good people, they arent evil they just never learned proper human decency and the rest is just outright malicious, and i stand by that for ANY group of people that is at that size. so imo its not that the conservative right is un caring its that they like most people are idiots, im sure the majority of the conservative right actually thinks they are helping young men, statistically the majority of people are good people, idiots but good hearted, the problem is its rarely the average person that is in charge of any kind of movement or group of people, the person in charge is usually the arogant SoB who has the stomach for backstabbing, lying and manipulating and that goes for the left as much as for the right and anything else, as with all things there are exceptions but they are exceedingly rare, the main reason for this is that the leader of a movement/company or group of people doesnt have the same goal as the people that follow them, the people who follow want change, they want things to be better, but the people in charge dont, they want to STAY in power, the best way to stay in power? make sure nothing changes
"Despair of capitalism"? No. Stop shoving this pinko propaganda into men's issues. We aren't struggling because the state doesn't have full control of the economy.
That's always my biggest, and often only argument towards these types of discussions within my generation. So much of it has devolved into "dunking" on the opposing viewpoints and becoming so emotionally engrossed in their stances that the dialogue becomes not only unhealthy, but stagnant to the point we spend all of our energy wasting our breath instead of taking steps towards change.
honestly tho? a lot of people who just piss and moan about the deplorable state of discourse would probably be out looking to shoot someone if more steps were taken towards change. we deeply fear change, especially when it stands to benefit people who are not like us.
Me at 15: "I'm moderate" Me at 21: "I'm Libertarian: Me at 22 - onwards: growing steadily more leftist as I got out into the world, has access to my own finances, had experiences, moved to big cities (I lived in rural areas 0-22), learned more about the world, etc.
Im just on opposite road. I live in different country so () are examples of equivalent in USA 16: Socialist (Bernie Sanders idealogy) 21: Centrist (Money out of politics and Obamacare) 31: Almost Rightwing/Nationalist (In USA that would be moderate republican)
What does Planned Obsolescence have to do with economics? The US designed and built its first 400+ mph planes to fight WWII. In 1964 the SR-71 Blackbird took to the air which could do 2000 mph. What kind of computers existed in 1964? But cars that look different and roll along the ground at less than 150 mph have been produced since 1946 when Keynes died. Did he ever see a television commercial for automobiles? Where is the annual data on the depreciation?
@@samuelsilver8077 Bro I'm 31 too! High five on surviving, but I'm sorry about your back. But my ass has gotten only more extreme as time has gone on and that survival and struggle for it has revealed to me more and more how deep the problems go. I understand that the work won't end with my generation, and that's okay. I don't care if other nations see us as weak, I care if my fellow human is alive and well. And that's not a guarantee in this world. I'm older than my cousin ever was, he died of a heart attack at 25. Not obese, just type 1 diabetes because of unfortunate genes, apparently they're at a higher risk level of that. I have lived 6 more years than he ever experienced, and he used to be older than me. Life is too short to worry about your fear of change, better to take care of whatever business you can while we're here on this earth. Keeping everything the same is just not possible, as even the same current actions will lead to irrevocable change at a global scale. Either the world must change, or we the humans have to change. And it's much harder to change the world the longer we refuse to recognize this dilemma. Peace be with you, brother.
@@samuelsilver8077 Lots of junk gets tossed into leftism now but at the end of the video he finally got to capitalism and economics. The screwed up economics aggravates lots of other problems. Leftists sabotage themselves by not staying on point.
Men bad feminism is like any other philosophy that makes broad sweeping stereotypes about large groups of people based on racial or sexual classifications. If it lacks nuance and relies only on the stereotypes it can easily be just another form of bigotry. Sure there are plenty of men who fit the stereotype but when you stop viewing them as individuals and start talking as if they are a single entity you are not helping.
As a wise, slimy anarchist once said, "It's going to naturally be more difficult to get people who currently benefit from the status quo on our side.".
But do men really benefit from the status quo? Oh yeah, they have 'power' but it's not like.... worth anything when the people with real power are the bourgeoisie. Men's issues aren't as severe as women or LGBT peoples, even those some LGBT people are men, but it's still am issue worth acknowledging.
I think its more so a percieved benefit. They dont have to challenge any pre-existing beliefs and its just easier to maintain the status quo. Its easier for me to pretend to be serious and "manly" then to open up and possibly receive criticism. Hence why the Steven Crowder types are like man babies who have to get their way. They and I guess myself included arent used to being criticzed for behaviors we assume to be the default male behavior.
@@LewdNoodzliterally yes. Not as much as they’d benefit from an inclusive society? But how can you honest to god act as if being in 99% of positions of power across history “doesn’t favor you”
Thank you thank you thank you! As a 52 year old feminist with 60% of a PhD, a teacher for 30 years of students from high school to post-grad, I cringe at what gets mainstaged as feminist on these platforms. I’m as sick of people not doing the reading but claiming expertise. It’s fine to not be academic but don’t also claim to be across the subject. Stopping rant now. Just really needed to say thank you 🙏🏼 🙏🏼👏🏼🌻
Feminism is whatever feminists say it is and how they act. You can’t claim you know the true feminism when that’s really the minority opinion on what feminism is from even feminists. Everybody does that kind of thing with their groups but doesn’t afford that to their opponents and it’s silly. Trying to help Men is boiled down to being the same as Tate and leftists have to bring up Tate every time they talk about men. They would not be talking about men if it wasn’t for Tate
@@jonasdowner How is the completion of that degree material to the comment at all? The experience, training, and commitment to the methodology of obtaining that degree is far more material, isn't it? In the frame of "being academic".
As someone who just graduated highschool I can say that politics usually just lead me to an identity crisis. With a developing brain and the algorithm teaching you about politics you’re essentially screwed. You get thrown about all over the place , until eventually you have no idea what to stand for or what to believe. I think the algorithm is very predatory on a young mind in that way, one week your right one week your left. Since you don’t know anything about politics or critical thinking you often end up switching sides from one video covering radicals. Videos like these are very helpful, someone who accurately assess’s data and politics in a non manipulative way. I have no idea what I am, for awhile I was a centrist, not like joe rogan tho, like I was an actual centrist. But now after watching people like you and foreign I’m getting more interested in the left. Thank you for you’re contribution to genuine political discourse.
I think the best way to get solid ground is look at history. When I started actually researching the history of specifics like why college is so expensive now, why there are so many homeless people now, who influenced who to wreck our tax system, I become more certain of what I believe, and less tribal. I’m a leftist, but I’m not attached to anyone. I vote D cause that’s the closest I can get in a two party system, but I’ll happily call out the bad actors like Biden signing green energy bills while also simultaneously granting more drilling permits than Trump did. Believe in fundamentals. Have positions, not clubs.
History is definitely a great teacher. Not only is it a good idea to look into the complex reasons why certain things in society are bad, but also why others are good - both in a general sense (as the poster above mentioned: why are there homeless, why is health insurance expensive; but also, why are there so many black people in us prisons, who gets to be a CEO and why) but also in relation to certain groups (why are there poor neighborhood and why are they often black or based around immigrants, why are indigenous communities often suffering from alcoholism) And then you should also go one step further and look at global situations (why is there such a thing as a third world, what are the historic reasons that created the current situation in the middle east - those ranging back centuries, but also those from the start of the 20th century, why is English now used in so many places) and also look at reasons for truly horrific historical events like WWII and WWII, and the justifications people used for atrocities and put them into context (meaning to read the accounts of people who were a target and off those who opposed the atrocities in their time - don't just read Hitler's own explanations and call it a day obviously) But you have to make sure to look a bit deeper than just getting a summary, because then you aren't getting served a simple story to reinforce a viewpoint through omission of facts. Read actual articles and books by experts - historians, sociologists, etc. School should give you this information or at least teach you how to properly five it, but modern school systems are usually intentionally very bad at this and you basically have to develop academic levels of critical thinking on your own to really understand complex systems and see through a lot of bullshit.
Try learning about more local politics! It tends to be less full of misinformation and helps you to start understanding politics in general so you’re more prepared for all the convoluted federal stuff.
Thank you all for your responses, I'll try to apply them as best as I can. I love the idea of learning from history, so simple, I guess things don't need to be as complicated as I've made them. I'll continue to learn more about politics, I'm currently leaning a little to the left, but I'd say I'm more of an independent. I wish they didn't make it so you have to pick a certain side, really reinforces the tribal mentality. You'd think they'd let you vote for whoever and change the party system a bit.
It’s funny you mentioned Tucker Max. I was 13 when he was at his peak and I remember how funny I thought he was. As an adult it is easy to see just how damaged he was. I say was because by all appearances he went to therapy, found out he was a deeply unhappy man, and has done a 180 on his life. He’s happily married now and has written a book about how to not be like his old self. It’s funny because actual analysis of Tucker Max or The Game shows just how sad and shallow these “alpha males” truly are. If their fanbase actually had media literacy, they’d realize this.
I think what I dislike most about how so many conversations both online and offline goes is that some side or person says something to the effect of "I have problem x" or "I am struggling personally or have seen others struggling with y", usually not so explicitly said but its often what they mean. Then so, so often the response is not one of sympathy, compassion, or any real effort to provide assistance or guidance for that problem, or even acknowledgment of the problem, instead, that person is invalidated in some way, insulted, told their problem is not real, or told that other people have it worse, like that matters. And mind you it's not usually influencers with a following that do the invalidation(well one side does a more often for sure), what I'm talking about are the individual interactions people have in the comments section, in their personal lives, on twitter, where ever. So often we forget that other people have lived whole entire lives different from our own, have seen completely different sets of data, both literally in the case of graphs, and more figuratively in the case of just anecdotal lived experiences and that those experiences are just so different or varied. Its almost useless to group people together based on anything other than in the way that they are suffering. I hate when people talk and act like there aren't a bunch of young men suffering, I hate when people act like there aren't a bunch of young women suffering, I hate when people act like someone isn't suffering just because of some superficial characteristic like race or gender, I hate it because there are just a lot of *people* suffering unnecessarily right now. At the same time the reasons are incredibly complex, and yet often simple, and the solutions are just as complex though also sometimes seemingly simple. Idk its all so complicated and over my head a lot of this stuff, what I do know is I have seen my father start to have some silly ideas with Qanon, and rather than anyone acknowledging the grief, fear, hurt, insufficient critical thinking skills, and insecurities that led him down that path he was instead ridiculed, insulted, demeaned, and dismissed. I've seen my little brother lost and without purpose in life, lacking the skills to even communicate his pain, unwilling to acknowledge it even to himself let alone others, turn to drugs and end up in the hospital to dull the pain all the while latching on to anyone who says they can give him the answers he so desperately looks for. Don't get me wrong, my father was every bit as arrogant, smug, and unrepentant as you'd imagine, my brother dumb and naive as teenagers tend to be, but there are no perfect victims. I do what I can, and I'm sure I can do more and better I'm not perfect either, but I just see these same conceptual problems of loss, isolation, and not understanding reflected in so many different areas and ways that it really gets to me. Its more apparent to me when seeing how men are sometimes talked about online, but its true for every group, and the problems attributed to harming them disproportionately more. Black people and cops, women and SA, trans people and their existence to name a few. Its also so tempting to compare those problems, but at the end of the day while I want to help with larger social problems, and I certainly try my best not to make things worse, I care far more about the problems that directly affect me and my family, and I know that is true for all(most) people and I feel like that truth is also often forgotten or ignored by most. I didn't mean for this to turn into a rant but it did, I appreciate your take and perspective on this and other issues you talked about and especially on trying to raise the level of analysis as you put it, I find it all insightful and well articulated which I appreciate as well. I've said this for most of my life but I really do wish everyone would just take a step back and chill a little, relax, and reflect for a bit geez.
my wife was giving me shit about that graph recently. My firstreaction to it was, "well, this is dumb", which landed me in more trouble. Thank you for reminding me that a graph isn't all the data.
I'm hooked on your content. I'm an African author (from Zimbabwe but now basically a digital nomad living in the Philippines) and I have written about cultural issues in Africa, in my book "A Vehicle For Progress" and articles for progressive publications. I have learnt a lot about American culture wars from your content.
Could you point us to your works? I'm a native South African and have best tried to learn more about our continent's history, the social and political movements during the late colonial era as well as picking up more non-western perspectives in general.
I'm so happy to see a decently well rounded critique of this whole situation. The red pill/masculinity/feminism rhetoric is often so shallow and most takes don't even start to address the problems I'm seeing.
Hard disagree, every take about it (defending the left, noteably) is too damn deep. Oh yeah the problems facing men are "the crushing weight of capitalism"... Like yeah no shit, but that doesnt give anyone a fucking clue about how to live their day to day life. The destruction of capitalism won't happen anytime in the next century. The reason the left loses people to andrew Tates is because he doesn't sell a solution for centuries to come, he sells "how can you fix this gaping hole in your heart right now".
It's not only social media though. Right now, once again, I see left-wing political parties fish for female support by insinuating that the Gender Pay Gap is a -30% modifier to your hourly wage if you are a woman. In that sense it gives me hope (as a fellow 3/4 PhD) to see someone like him who actually cares about what the data can tell us about the real situation and calls out misrepresentations regardless of whether they 'help his team'. A reasonable stance one might assume, but according to many people calling out such bullshit (or also caring about men's issues, for that matter) seems to be right-wing now.
they're meant to propagate and reinforce a shallow approach and shallow thinking about these issues. that you see the issues in greater depth puts you that much further ahead. the question is what you (or i or anyone) can do to get others to see things more completely.
@@RatPfink66 TBH there's not much anyone can do. Most people are entrenched in shallow though & refuse to budge. Ignorance is a virtue in many cohorts today. 😒 if anyone figures a way to break through I'm all ears
I always share your vids to my younger brother I’m so thankful he never fell for the Andrew Tate bs but he struggles with loneliness and I find your videos not only helpful but empathetic as well he’s watched them too ❤ your work is much appreciated
I get the feeling you don't don't suffer from the same issues he has which I'm sure it comes down to you having better personality and not being an incel
@@RealNormHall ?? She just said her brother was lonely, nothing else? Where do you get him being an incel from, or her having a better personality? That's a huge reach.
Growing up in Republican areas, it's such an important point about young people supporting Democrat POLICY while protecting their Republican FAMILY/TRIBAL IDENTITY.
I think one issue we have is that the same space we have serious political discussions is the same space that people vent. So men might see women complaining about the patriarchy in less than academic terms, like “ugh I hate men” and it can feel personal because they’re not used to it. I don’t think that kind of language is particularly helpful coping mechanism (especially in a world with terfs) but sometimes frustration builds up and you go to the easiest phrase that signals your pain to other members of your marginalised group. I mean, I’ve complained about straight people plenty, and I’m not gonna tone police poc when they complain about white people cause I know they’re talking about the institution. Funnily enough, tumblr now is a lot better with this strand of feminism. I think a part of that is that the most earnest have just become terfs so the rest have had to do some introspection and distanced themselves. Edit: Woaaah what happened in the comments when I was away? It's kinda ironic that what I mentioned here, some folk taking the frustrations of marginalised folks personally and as their actual political position, is on display here asdfasdf
I think Tumblr’s lack of any meaningful algorithm also really helped the user base become a bit more…. Mature? There’s still issues, but different ones than you see on algo sites tbh
@@KaleighCee Respectfully, I _dont_ think it goes without saying, and I think assuming it does is kind of a problem when it comes to spreading the message of the movement. You, and some other people probably know what you _mean_ is some men, or those men, or this particular type of man, because they have context clues, but everyone else doesnt have that context and just sees a negative generalization. I stopped saying 'women x' years ago and swapped to 'some women x' specifically _because_ I wanted to more accurately portray I was talking about a specific group and I didnt want people to think I was making reductive or insulting generalizations about women as a whole - because I was aware thats how random strangers would interpret it.
The log in your own eye is knocking over your furniture. Your list of "feminist spaces" is just hilariously inaccurate, and reveals your prejudices. This whole comment reveals more about your perceptions, than reality itself. The idea that commercial online sites are inherently ideological and political is some kind of paranoia, and a fundamental misunderstanding of these commercial outlets. Note the word commercial. They are looking to garner clicks, so that they can garner advertisers who pay to place advertising. As profit is their primary purpose, they're not punting for any political stance. They're punting for dollar bills. And if they have articles that you perceive as "feminist", it's more a factor of those takes being fashionable and attracting attention than any political stance. Your comment comes across as "I see feminism everywhere", and that shows that you fundamentally don't understand the essential argument that feminism is making. It is a female perspective, but any female perspective that ignores how men are oppressed too, is missing the whole point of feminism. Women can't be free if men are in chains. And vice versa. We need each other to destroy the chains that bind us. So for both men and women, there are shared and unique injustices we need to address on a societal and individual level. And to do so we need to understand our own oppression as men and as women. One has to strive for one's freedom and then use that to build solidarity, and then work to free each other and ourselves. To break the structures that seek to exploit us both. Men and women need to be allies, but it pays those who control us that we don't become that. Divide et Impera. And sadly, your comment suggests you have fallen for that. You will not be free as long as women are oppressed. Women will not be free as long as men are oppressed. It doesn't mean that it will be easy, straightforward, or that progress will be linear. Not everyone will understand, or have effective or useful takes that are grounded in reality. And some people prefer being institutionalised. Just watch Shawshank Redemption for a case study in the ranges of response to being imprisoned. Being free is hard work, so not everybody wants that. But, I that doesn't give them the right to condemn others to share it with them.
@@davagevorriose8046I don’t think you’re understanding the function of what I’ll call “ugh men” statements. I want to explain this because I want you and others to approach the behavior of marginalized groups with compassion. If I’m understanding your argument correctly, the idea is that, because “ugh men” statements paint a blanket picture and serves to reinforce a view of all men(/white people/cishet people/whatever) as a harmful monolith, these statements themselves are harmful. What they actually are is an attempt to release the built up pain and exhaustion from dealing with oppression. When men hurt you in the same way over and over again, it wears on you. The pain and frustration of never being worthy to them because of your gender, and the hyper-scrutiny of your behavior that they don’t have towards other men, that frustration builds up in your body. It makes you feel crazy and worthless. By saying “ugh men” and being heard, understood, and validated in that pain, it allows you to feel some worth again. The fact that it is socially inappropriate is part of its healing power; marginalized groups have so much more pressure on them to never say anything wrong/offensive/hurtful. “Ugh men” is a way of affirming that yes, I actually do have a right to my feelings. When done in the right way with the right people (that is, people who know that the problem isn’t men, it’s patriarchy), it allows for healing and moving past your pain in a way that allows for more empathy for men. It’s a transitional state that people use to move towards empowered. When someone from a privileged group tells you, “you can’t say that because it’s not OK for men to say ugh women”, it reinforces that constant pressure society places on marginalized groups to never show pain or emotion, to never allow themselves to express their hurt. I’m a White queer nonbinary person who others view as male. When I see “ugh White people” from Black people (mostly on TH-cam spaces like this one; I don’t go to the more heated or toxic parts of the internet), or from BIPOC folks in my life, I understand it, accept it, and don’t take it personally. I know from their relationship with me (or, in the case of content creators, relationships/interactions with White folks on TH-cam) that they are looking to change society in ways that improve conditions for everyone including White people, and that they want White people to do better, and believe that kind of change is possible. And for me personally, having spaces with other nonbinary people where I can say “ugh cis people” is really important for coping with being misgendered literally every time I go outside. When my pain and frustration is heard and validated even though I’m not using “nice” language, it helps me move through that pain, and it makes it easier for me to be out and to help cis people move towards understanding and creating a better world for me and other nonbinary people. Some people may think, “men aren’t allowed to express emotion either!” But one of the few emotions men can freely express is anger over being mistreated, especially by women. White people are given free reign to be angry at Black people who don’t “act right.” But when women are mistreated because of sexism, or BIPOC folks are mistreated because of racism, it’s minimized, and they’re told it’s all in their head. None of the “ugh men” that I’m saying is important and valuable applies to pop feminism or social media pages dedicated to talking about how terrible men are. “Ugh men” is important as a transitional, healing stage. If people treat it as an endpoint, it is problematic for all the reasons you mentioned. But it is a place many people with marginalized identities will keep coming back to as long as oppression still exists, because it’s one of the few ways they have to affirm their worth outside of what’s deemed acceptable by the dominant group. So you have your “ugh men” rant with your female/NB friends, you let out that pain, and you move on and get back towards making the world better and more inclusive and understanding for everyone, including men. I hope that made some sense, and that it was helpful to you or to someone out there.
I think the problem with this discourse is that is shallow. I actually saw a really good video called "The emotional objectification of men" that explains this problem as another byproduct of the patriarchy. And that it's a problem with gender roles in general. Like for instance how BECAUSE of the systemic issues facing women that women are rightly skeptical and fearful of men in general because of the real dangers they face. Also how men have been conditioned by this patriarchal society to bury our emotions, to not form meaningful bonds with our male friends etc. And I think that's the proper way to frame the issue. Not as a left vs right issue but a more systemic issue based around centuries old societal traditions and gender roles. So again the main problem with this discourse is that the popular lefties who are talking about it aren't digging deep enough. But to be fair this video was linked in Shoe's description box so I gotta give her a partial W for exposing me to this more nuanced view, but yet again speaks to your point about algorithmic viability. But yeah it IS a real problem on the left and right that men's emotional well being isn't really taken all that seriously. We're taught to be the bread-winner, the strong person. The need for emotional validation is also seen as "male entitlement" and to be fair this IS the case for lots of men. But in general the problem is that we're starved of emotional validation and that's something that is necessary for the well-being of all people regardless of gender, race etc. Also comes the problem that younger men are more likely to search for this validation online and the online or "twitter left" is CHOCK FULL of people who say things like "oh poor wittle baby, are you lonely, maybe don't be such a shitty person" or "we have more important things to deal with" or a general trivialization of our issues. Please don't come in my replies and say I'm downplaying women's issues because I am absolutely not. All I'm saying is that male concerns are just as valid and also a byproduct of the same systems that brought us all these problems
Man, do your videos motivate and inspire me. As a fellow Black male creative myself I wanna utilize my art to push these kinda ideals and you always justify what I wanna create and I appreciate that a ton.
Man at this point i despise statistics with a passion, as time goes on i realize how the discipline is so thoroughly misused by everyone and their mama to manufacture false realities, by abstracting the 10 trillion variables that real processes are influenced by and doing away with any qualitative contextual appraisal of any system being studied, in favor of a neat and tidy correlation that will no doubt be called a causation or a simple graph line going up devoid of any other context other than "this proves my belief". Real statistical analysis often looks like "idk there's this fun little trend but we need more data i guess" but people use statistics as if they were rigorous mathematical theorems about society when they're just fallacies presented into a mathematical model that just so happen to defend and uphold the status quo
😮 100% FACTS. Comment of the YEAR. Twain said it best, "there are three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." Often when people use stats, and you see this a lot in sports from people trying to push the "Lebron is the GOAT" narrative, they are manipulated to fit pre-existing prejudices. Often people will deploy, whether consciously or subconsciously, the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy and just use numbers in the most ad hoc way to fill in the games. We live in a world so bereft of critical thinking that all one has to do to engender a kind of scientific deference to ones position is to invoke numbers. People see numbers and outsource their intelligence to the ether. "Wait, you have stats! It MUST be true then!" It's the classic confusing the map for the ACTUAL terrain. Great comment. I could wrote books about this phenomenon.
Yup, stats get used irresponsibly practically all the time at this point. Imagine the frustration of actual statisticians. We don't only need better media literacy but tech and stats literacy too.
Don't let anybody tell you what men are supposed to be, be yourself and be righteous, if anyone has a problem with it that's not your fault, pay them no attention, if the world around you discriminates and pushes you you just gotta keep your head up, be humble and keep growing, you're allowed to have faults, to be sensitive, more so you must be proud of it as it is a fundamental part of being human, can nobody take that from you
The problem with this is it can easily be taken to the extreme of self-righteous arrogance where you believe you are and will always be the upmost truth. That is a very dangerous mindset. You absolutely should take in the opinions of others and digest them. Other people help you grow into a better version of yourself than you could ever do on your own.
You know, i wouldn't really worry to much about what a survey of high schoolers says about their political identities. When i was in high school i thought i was conservative because i thought that meant that you care about the environment. I think you need to ask what they think those terms mean as well.
The real problem with "the Left (TM)" and men (and, let's face it, others to a lesser extent) is that if you are a young man with solidly leftwing views, there is left wing content out there if you are looking for it. If, on the other hand, you are a young man who is anything other than decidedly, actively leftwing, there is a massive amount of well funded, well crafted right wing content out there that is looking. For. You. By the way, when I say right wing content is well crafted, I don't mean it is representative of reality. I mean it is accessible to large groups of people without much context needed. Your average leftist content maker, regardless of what faction of the "the Left" you like or dislike, is pretty explicitly labeled as leftist. By contrast, Jordan Peterson and Tim Pool are still pretending their views are too complicated and nuanced to be classified on a political spectrum even though anyone who looks at them critically can see they are just conservatives. Even Sargon of Akkad, who doesn't really deny being right wing now, prefers to talk more in abstracts than about the specific policies he wants to see.
It’s hitting me that because there’s so much pressure on men to be breadwinners, economic downturns might hit men particularly hard, at least emotionally (I suppose women tend to be worse off economically in the first place). But it must be especially hard to fight the feeling that losing a job or struggling financially is a personal failure, and I’m sure it’s just terrifying for a lot of men because you know you’ll be looked down on, and people may be less willing to help you or have compassion for you. That particular gendered pressure (coupled with the lack of social support men tend to have) on top of financial struggles must be a nightmare. I really appreciate this video, that point about so many on the left being more concerned about “winning” men’s votes than actually helping them or getting to the bottom of their actual problems really resonated. I also think it’s a good practice to be willing to share good ideas even when they come from sources we generally disagree with. Had a similar thought to this point earlier today when I saw folks on tumblr talking about how to “make hate groups less appealing to men,” like, the way you get men to not wanna join hate groups is to get to the bottom of why they’re so damn angry in the first place. The hate groups are a scourge, but they’re also a symptom of a much larger problem, and the way to make things better is to fix the system. The problem is that men are miserable, because we’re all miserable - we’re isolated, polarized from our neighbors, just went through (sort of are going through) a pandemic, we’ve got terrible financial prospects, the planet’s being killed, and even the people in power who seem to care can’t manage to get enough done to save us. We’ve gotta stop obsessing over the fact that a lot of men like Andrew Tate and start seeing it as part of the bigger picture. We know why people are miserable and angry. Let’s talk about it.
How I rationlize it is like when women tell each other that “they’re all beautiful” like at a societal and personal level we don’t really need to do that, but we understand that society has placed alot of emphasis on beauty standards for women and if certain people can’t meet that standard it damages their self-esteem and mental health. For men that can’t meet the standard that society places on them there is really nothing put in place to tell them or even help them so they don’t fall into having low self-esteem or making sure their mental health doesn’t fail. Everybody says its the men’s own fault for getting themselves in this situation and they should essentially pull themselves up by the boot straps, the closest thing men got to getting positive affirmations for their problems was Andrew Tate but even he was just manipulating them for their own gain and told them the only way to pull themselves up by their bootstraps is to follow his teachings. Smh 🤦🏾♂️ its really a circular issue at this point
Pressure on men to be breadwinners is somewhat due to women, particularly ones who would divorce a man to make his life even worse off if he loses the job. E.I. father loses job -> he also loses the kids thanks to family courts being utterly corrupt. Andrew Tate shows men a positive identity of a Playboy. A man who at least pleases women sexually. But when men can't have ANY positive identity, when men don't care at all anymore about doing good for the women then you'll be past the point of return. Men need a unique positive identity; not be blamed for participating in society! You can't get out of this problem by blaming men (which you specifically aren't doing).
TH-cam got rid of dislikes and now toxic positivity for every fandom is the norm. There is much less discourse and disagreements are devalued. Young adults we got now grew up looking at the likes number as a way of estimating the value of the content, rather than contextualizing it against their actual thoughts and values. They are primed for being influenced as soon as the page loads.
A lot of people shit on Hasan but what he does well is walk into bro and toxic male spaces and can appeal to those young men that are looking for a positive role model to learn from
Hasan, while having quite some bad takes, especially on Ukraine, does do a good job of reaching to man and being like the stereotypical masculine dude.
People shit on Hasan a lot because he comes from a privileged family and they think that it somehow makes him a hypocrite to be leftist. At least he admits that he grew up privileged and he doesn't use his privilege for selfish reasons. Also, Hasan is LOUD and even I get annoyed at that from time to time, but Hasan grew up in a Turkish family and that's just how they communicate lol
I feel like Destiny does it better, especially since he goes into spaces such as fresh n fit and the whatever podcast fighting against their talking points
i think a great strength that the left has always had over the right (although we surely could do much better still) is the culture of discussing and workshopping ways to "do things right". with emphasis on the communality and cooperative nature of that effort. because truly, we don't need our own versions of political influencers who just try and tell you their own way is the one true way to do things. in other words: whenever i see leftist creators collabing with and platforming people with different experiences from theirs, admitting they were wrong about something, recommending publications on theory that they found eyeopening (without any financial incentive to promote them), and so on, i really believe that we are building something great together.
Maybe it's just because of the comparison but I feel like even the many videos which *are* trying to be helpful ultimately don't say very much that seems actionable. "We need to have a conversation" vs "Here is a 9-step plan to fix your life" is going to lose out a lot of the time, even if the latter is pure bs.
This is a great argument, but it also reminds me how much I miss this kind of video. Most leftist videos these days seem to be either stream clips or elaborately produced quasi-documentaries. But this video shows the value of a well-made argument presented as simply and directly as possible.
FD making MORE waves in the space. You know you're big when you become reference material. Lol. The APEX is when you wind up as hastily thrown together "internets" reference material for ANY terrestrial news publication. ROFL! Keep it going. I'm so glad this channel has grown so much! Thanks for posting.
Its a very well known fact that normal people who "identify" as Conservatives favor and vote for liberal policies. This includes polarizing topics like healthcare, abortion and education. Bernie Sanders was a prime example of this back when he was actively campaigning in southern states.
this is why he had to be stopped. he was a paradigm breaker, and those paradigms cost a lot of money and work to build. it's not fair to just break them. /s
@@RatPfink66 Yeah sadly that's exactly what happened...not even by the Republicans but rather the Democrats. We don't have a two party system anymore. It's just a variation of the same ideologies that don't include the public.
24:11-24:31 This right here is one of the biggest reasons I'm subscribed to you, F.D. It's amazing how many leftists online, including content creators, don't follow common sense ideas like the ones you lay out in the last 20 seconds. I also come for your keen insights on systemic issues, edgelords, and masculinity but your skills at basic reality checks are desperately needed for the online left right now.
Frankly, common sense has been coopted as an idea by conservatives, just like the ideas of the family and freedom. It has a thick layer of Dunning-Kruger-effect related bullshit shoveled over it, and I could almost understand if some lefties were loathe to get the stink on them.
It's not the left that has failed men, it's been hyper capitalism, which places a premium on consumerism, and an individualistic paradigm. This has contributed to the need to acquire things as status symbols in order to be seen as a viable mate. Hence the average man is invisible to the average woman where she is chasing the top 10% of men who have been able either through luck or finding a niche in the system to be visibly successful. With these factors in place some turn to illicit measures to get paid or they simply pack it in. Others like myself have found happiness overseas.
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexiteI did not say they NEED a man I said for the most part if you're not visibly successful as in your accomplishments aren't being posted on social media you are basically invisible. Read to understand instead of to respond. Do not be problematic and take everything personally.
@@MrKeepnit100you could argue however, socialism could lead to the same outcomes. The issue to me isn’t that the left has failed men in not reaching out to them, more so we would be well served reaching out to this demographic to help guide them through whatever it is they’re going through. It is men who are unwilling to give women a seat at the table of privilege (yes that sounds hella corny) that have failed in teaching young men how to navigate the world we live in. If we write these young men off as people who need to work on themselves and be better rather than promote content creators who provide actual guidance as nauseum, it allows charlatans like Jordan Peterson, Andrew Tate etc. to fill the void. In reality, like FD says in this video, this is a small sliver of people we are talking about, but they are still statistically significant and will likely form part of the loud ass minority of men.
I think it's a bit discourteous to say the average woman is pursuing the top 10% of men. That's like saying average men are pursuing the top 10% of attractive women (which is true to an extent) but ignores that ultimately we all end up with people we value for more realistic and less superficial reasons. The people that try to impress people with their materialism will attract materialistic people.
@@fongdimbulator it's absolutely discourteous and just absolutely bulshit. And you can really tell that this guy doesn't go outside because I work outside and I see all kinds of couples all the time and I'm definitely not seeing the top ten percent of people out in public. This is just such a ridiculous and absolutely false idea And I mean when my husband and I first got together he was barely working and the month after we got married he lost his job. Neither of us are in the top ten percent of men and women and we have not always been financially ahead.
I partially agree with where FD is going but I feel this misses the larger point. It goes beyond just some online crisis. Countless men are feeling rudderless and lost when it comes to their place in society. A number of them look for someone to blame, which leads them to fall in with Manosphere bad actors like Andrew Tate. But many others who are trying to find their purpose are getting ignored or rejected when they ask for help. Even worse, if some men disagree with feminists (ie they disliked the Barbie movie because they found the story lacking not because of misogyny) they are disparaged and told to man up or labeled "incels." Men who are incels (not the violent sociopathic subset) deserve our sympathy instead of scorn. Yet I've seen a lack of empathy toward the overall problem. If men are required to be allies for women (as we should), true gender equality means being an ally is a two-way street.
agreed. He mentions "they believe it until they get the opportunity to get out" and I ask very loudly "WHEN IS THAT OPPORTUNITY". People fall for these people and STAY with them because the opportunity to learn different isn't prevalent, consistent, nor overwhelmingly good. and of course women should be allies towards men, but if we say this they all say (including male feminists) "women built their own, it's your own problem, deal with it". Yeah hun, you got the right to vote because of women making it legal... oh wait. Moves for equality require cross over, the fact the left refuses to reach over, and have all of these arguments about how "nuh uh not really!" is just shooting themselves in the foot. the line at 19:00 is 100% bullshit. "either change yourself to conform to the community, or make your own so we can harass you" is more accurate. The ENTIRE problem is that men ARE making their own communities and they're getting toxic, invaded, etc.
@@samuelboczek1834 precisely. "no one owes you community" then whats the goddamn point of this entire left wing ideology????? if no one owes community then why are they owed healthcare? it's so flagrantly anti-progressive and it's astonishing that we allowed people to so firmly and loudly just lose all of their progressivism the SECOND we center conversations on men.
women have always been humiliated and made fun of for these things, why does everyone always have to be extra understanding and compassionate for males? They cause these issues for themselves and everyone else, and then act shocked when people are exhausted and don't feel like coddling them
That kinda sums up his takes on gender related issues to me. Outside of that one long video he made on masculinity it feels like he often simplifies things down to being "our fault" or tries to negate the validity of it due to other gender's struggles, or he blames said issues on capitalism which just shifts the goalposts away from offering a solution or true empathy. Generally, I'm about 65% with FD, but when he's talking about men I honestly don't expect insight as much as I do belittling at worst and misunderstanding at best
First of your videos I’ve ever seen. Watched 3 Shoeonhead videos today so that’s why the algorithm sent me here. Even though I find her takes half assed and annoying. I’m glad my interest in her led me to you. I’ll be watching more of your videos
Thank you FD - this might be one of the most important videos you've yet made, at least for me. The way you've summarised so much breadth and scope of this issue, and left pointers for deeper dives in several key directions, without pushing any angle hard - the light touch, humour and realism (as in, realistic, maybe even downplaying)... It's so accessible and enlightening. Super helpful for my own work with young people. Thank you again 🙏🏽
I want to agree wholeheartedly with this video, but I can’t. The big issue I see everywhere including from many male leftists is simply not taking the issues boys and men face seriously. There is this overall sentiment in so many left wing circles that women’s issues are real and important and men’s just aren’t. Too many people look at the statistics of how young boys and men are struggling more than ever and simply say something along the lines of “patriarchy is ending and men are just failing to get with the program.” There is also a sentiment that since men are the oppressors, that women have no need or responsibility to care about any male issues. This is a complete misunderstanding of patriarchy and where we are today. Many women and even left wing men demand that men listen to women’s issues but when the shoe is on the other foot simply roll their eyes with a “cry me a river” attitude. The reality is the majority of men are victims in patriarchy(women have obviously had it worse, but this shouldn’t be a competition), patriarchy is upheld by both men and women, and men and women need each other to free society from patriarchy. Its not the fault of just the algorithms that the left wing content helping boys is not more popular. Too much of the left doesnt want to acknowledge these issues exist because it clashes with the narrative that only women have been victimized by patriarchy. when i have these conversations with leftists and bring up bell hook’s insights in “the will to change” (not a perfect book but great intro to these issues) the room usually goes silent because they didnt know feminism has so much to say about how men can suffer under patriarchy.
imo, a lot of feminist confused patriarchy with capitalism. feminists say that men suffer under patriarchy just as women do, but say men hold the power. firstly, if a system that is defined at men having the power over women but men also suffer under it doesn't really make sense. i find it that its more appropriate to say its a class issue when you get into the history and look into hierarchy, feudalism and slavery. yes women were oppressed, but men were oppressed as well on every level. when you consider that live expectancy was like 40 years, ofc gender roles played a part in ensuring humanity. even i understand why the boomers acted the way they did (doesn't mean i agree with it) when you consider that they faced 2 devastating wars, within 20 years, threat of nuclear fall out and the battle between comie vs capitalist. as i said before, i don't agree with the actions of the past but i atleast can understand why they went to the lengths they did to ensure society.
Man, that part about never having as much reach as the people with controversial ideas - it hits home a little as someone aspiring to write video essays
It's really simple. Make nice boy content? Nice people show up awww how sweet. Make evil boy content? Evil people show up oh no, but so do nice people because they want to counter it. One tactic clearly gets more eyes... And then the corpo algo can make or break you depending on its mood so none of what I said matters lol. Just cross your fingers I guess.
I think the main point everyone should remember is that men have always faced issues of some kind, and it’s almost always been on a class basis, and in the 2010s, it became almost a stereotype that men saw all the things of other people gaining visibility and rights, and men didn’t have an issue with it, but rhetoric began to shift towards blaming everyday men for the issues that were being solved. Seeing this, the right co opted them and began telling men that women and minorities and the “evil democrats” wanted to oppress them. Men feeling left behind and under appreciated, is not the left’s fault, it is a narrative painted by the right to hold onto a voting base. Because if they can hang onto a voting base with just those useless words, they don’t have to do anything to solve men’s issues.
i love short concise videos like these, they’re responses to common criticisms people have, and i can send them to friends when i can’t explain a point as well as you can
It's worth noting that politics in the USA in general are more about identity than policy. Case in point, the people on the "right" who go around saying let's go Brandon even though Biden took most of Trumps significant policies and... actually scaled them up. Trade war? He just cut off China to the international production of high end semiconductors. Convince companies to rebuild in the USA? Well he passed bills that have caused the largest industrial investment in the USA since ww2 all with just offering a few grants and tax credits. The border? Well he's doing the same policies there. Socially he hasn't helped us in the LGBT community (just like Obama didn't btw. Obama's administration and the congress in those 8 years passed no laws to help us.) Nor has Biden done anything regarding reproductive rights. Yet Trump supporters still hate him because it's not about policy. It's about identity.
Thank you! I never understood this argument that leftist creators just ignore men and things that harm them or that there is a lack of masculine male creators on the left. I've even heard it from left leaning male creators.
I think the problem is and I would almost put Joe Rogan as an example of this there’s the feeling for some men to want to find a guy with muscles and a tough guy image. When what your talking about is more intellectually or philosophical thinkers who don’t have that image.
@@c17sam90 yes I understand that some people define masculine specifically as meathead jock. My point is that's a very stupid metric to use to whine that the left isn't masculine or doesn't talk about male issues.
I suspect it's because, to the extent leftists tackle the subject, they don't do so in a way that's actionable or makes sense at street level. Patriarchy and capitalism aren't responsible for swiping left on 80% of men. Women's preferences are robust cross- culturally (just ask David Buss). You can't provide a vague blanket explanation that all your problems are caused by _x_ and expect it to make sense, particularly when there's nothing the listener can do about it. Red pill content, in among the women- bashing, does offer actionable advice, bad take or not. I didn't hear a thing on this video or any other leftist video that helps a boy figure out how to become a man that's worthy in the eyes of women. And "be a good person" doesn't count.
@@j.c.denton5193 it’s what I find the most interesting about Rogan’s appeal if you listen to him he kinda just agrees with the people he talks to and creates an echo chamber but because he’s a very savvy businessman he knows what his audience likes to hear. However what he says isn’t very deep or complex but if your not used to those sort of conversations I can understand why you would find it deep.
@@c17sam90 , my reply was more on OP's initial comment, but Rogan is an interesting phenomenon to discuss. I only occasionally listen to him, but I recognize he's popular not because he's a meat-head, but because he's authentic and he meets people where they are. He'll push back on people, but he won't do it in a shaming- tactic, name- calling way like I hear leftists do routinely (maybe the Right does it too, but I don't listen to them). I've never heard Rogan call someone a "trash human being". He engages with the ideas, tries to put out ideas specifically to be knocked down, doesn't try to reframe into something completely different, and doesn't let the idea and his feelings interact. For all the sophistication, approaches like Signified's doesn't hold a candle to that, to me.
I expect your humility, honesty and fairness in giving credit where it’s due will mean a lot to people. It means a lot to me. There’s amazing strength in a grown man choosing not to get defensive. If I were a man, I’d probably long to be secure and confident enough to be so humble.
i struggled with what i wanted to say here until i watched the latest beyonce video. in it F.D. SIgnifer says "....and even the hand full of men who invaded that queer fem space hopefully your on your best behavior" This sentence highlights for me a the way i see the left failing men particularly white men. why cant i JOIN the beyonce fans i just want to be part of a community that works towards and advocates toward a kind and Equal society. but the people who i think have the most to gain from that kindness and Equailty talk like they hate me even when i just want to help. i cant join a community i can only invade a space.
This is just plainly untrue. Most left wing spaces, especially in the Western world, be they trade unions or political parties, are overwhelmingly made up of white men, not women or LGBT people.
Very true, I feel like he emphasizes division, which imo, discourages communication & weakens the Left as a whole, rather than strengthening any one group…. Other than the Right, actually.
I certainly cannot speak for the entire site, just the portions I have visibility to, but I have noticed a very strong rejection on Tumblr of the sorts of mindsets you referenced with regard to 'Tumblr University'. Most especially, lots of recognition that the anti-men ideologies are A. being promoted by terfs, B. a gateway to terf ideologies, and C. not only not helpful, but extremely harmful to groups that are ostensibly allies. But, in a way, that kinda underscores your point, if unintentionally: it feels like the tone on Tumblr changed because the people you're referencing left Tumblr and set up shop on Twitter instead, because it started shifting almost immediately after the mass exodus, which allowed different voices to be amplified and win out. They may have 'graduated' Tumblr, but they and their mindsets not welcome there anymore, and the environment has begun healing now that they are gone, much like with that tribe of baboons when the most violent members all died of disease.
I may not agree with what you say at times but I atleast feel like you’re coming from a genuine place which is rare online these days. Keep up the good work brethren
S/O to all the men (like me) that were getting lost in the red pill sunken place but were lucky enough to find channels like FD, Foreign Man, Noah, etc. before it was too late.
@@appleswithpeanutbutter609 but who knows, maybe that's the key to engaging the normies. hit 'em with just enough enlightenment while still being, to some degree, unregenerate and prejudiced.
Very off topic to the video but ever thought of sharing your thoughts on Noname? Namely her newest album and the politic she brings to her lyricism (and the Jay Electronica feature)
"for all the smoke I gave pop girlboss feminism" man you gave them absolutely no smoke. You gently critiqued them and gave them the maximum charity. It would be quite reasonable to ask that within the movement, and especially among public intellectuals, that the hatred of men be eliminated, or at least toned down. You can easily observe how the online feminist movement polices itself, rank and file constantly apologize for the movement's history, rank and file consistently gatekeep people who aren't socialist out or gatekeep those who don't agree with them on every facet of every women's or LGBT issue out, they are virtually in lockstep on every issue-of-the-day take, they learn the lines and the memes and the slogans and the apologia quickly - that is to say, the movement has a strong ability to internally message. I like edgy jokes, and I don't want a world where a woman is condemned for every edgy joke she could try to make about men. What I'm more concerned about is the sincere, unchecked hatred that most online feminists harbor towards men. All of the tweets in the Shoe vid are coming from women who sincerely hate men, and who express that hatred in a way completely unchecked by the movement. Instead of using that obviously existent ability to affect the internal messaging feminists have to create a pivot away from hatefulness and vileness, dehumanization and disdain, the internal messaging is more focused on making sure every member knows the apologetics, and providing aid and cover for their hate. I don't think it's a high bar or a big ask. Right wing men don't have to deal with this shit, they are in a movement full of women who seem to cherish them and their role. It's guys who are close enough to them ideologically that have to be around all this toxicity. For the most part it's us who get the exposure, we're the ones who have to sit in proximity to their toxicity. I've made up my mind about how I feel on it, and as someone who hates conservatives and should naturally be in a coalition with feminists, I have a new position going forward: any woman who is sincerely hateful to men is not my ally in any way, just some lady with her own problems that I just don't care about. And frankly, I'm fine to just let them get shit on by right wingers and lose their own battles if they must, because I don't want to run an ounce of interference for a movement that is just absolutely wild with vitriol.
This is basically a summary statement for exactly why the left has failed men. Yeah, the right wants us in a rigid box that will crush us, but at least they don't actively despise our existence.
I understand why you have criticisms of Shoe0nHead and I agree. But I think left leaning creators like her can potentially act as a bridge for alt right dudes to move towards the left and maybe eventually to creators like you. I don't think anyone is going straight from Jordan Peterson to being a leftist, I think it's a gradual process
This was so well said. Much about the discourse regarding the radicalization of young men has really bugged me for a long time. A lot of left leaning commentators including women talking about it as if young men need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Where have I heard that before?
@QuesadillaQuest808 Well, they kida did, but that is besides the point. Why are we all still fighting, no matter which direction you go you just hear people blaming another side for shit without recognising that no one single person is responsible for all of this. Yes, we are all collectively responsible for patriarchy, men and women, as there are a lot of women who do it today and there used to be even more women in the past, but somehow men get 99% of the hate.
Another point about that graph is that liberal parents are far more likely to leave their kids to figure out their own labels, whereas conservative parents tend to inculcate their kids into a conservative identity. So, the skew is more about parenting styles than legitimate political identities. The massive group of 'Don't knows' is probably more accurate. I would anticipate that the number saying they're conservative will remain relatively static in the following years for this cohort, and more and more of the 'Don't Knows' will veer leftwards.
This is such an awesome video and I wish I could just make all of my friends and family sit and watch it. I’m 26, so I was old enough to see the 08 crash and even though I was fortunate enough that it didn’t affect my family that bad, so many people around me felt it HARD. I remember my parents watching Fox News and the big topic was “all the work is being stolen by China!” It was always blamed on Dems (bc “it was all these environmental laws and regulations making companies not able to make money!”) and China, but I remember thinking “wait a second… if the companies here aren’t making money then why are they still so wealthy? Why are we blaming the government and other countries when the CEOs are the ones making the choice to lay off people in droves and participate in sweatshop labor?” And now as an adult I see it play out post C0v1d again. It’s because the gov, because people don’t want to work yada yada… meanwhile companies are making record profits…
I should probably clarify that this is towards the point you made about men no longer being able to be apart of the workforce that was once available until the neoliberal policies took place.
Wow.... just wow. Its 3am and im way too tired to actually articulate all the thoughts swimming through my head - but thankyou. You have given me ALOT to think about. Probably doesnt matter much, but I have alot of respect for you as a person. Thankyou for actually taking the time to explain the real dynamics at play here, i had been blinded by what the internet has been feeding me. Thankyou so much this has been one of the healthiest realisations iv had surrounding politic and my own views and feelings on it.
It's not ever-present, but I deal with it. I'm poor (look it), am 6' 7", and not white (mixed), it's mostly upper-middle class (usually white) people. Older people tend to give out smiles more often, though which is quite nice (regardless of race or class).
@@samuelboczek1834it's like any other demographic, I generally mean the bad ones but caviating every demographic is too tedious and should be implied.
I'm probably gonna get hate for this, but I'll say my piece anyway. I am bi, hispanic, and a guy, and I feel like both the right and the left view me as this nebulous boogeyman for being what I am, someone dangerous and subhuman. Whether it's homophobes calling me an evil abomination for being bi, racists saying I'm less intelligent than a "mutt" for being hispanic, or people on the left saying I'm more dangerous than a bear for being a guy, all of it feels the same. All of it gives me this message that they all think the world would be a safer place if I wasn't a part of it, and it hurts to be told that. Now, I do support the left signifigantly more than the right, because the right hate me for signifigantly more of me than the left do, but I do wish things were better. I'm voting HarrisWalz, not because anything anyone in this comment section has said, but because I trust them more than most people in this comment section. At the end of the day, I'd rather be hated for only one attribute rather than 2 or 3 times that many attributes.
man i'm only at 4:15 in but when you pointed out that there was an "i don't know" option i just shook my head and thought man i love this guy for just dismantling the bullshit, thank you
When discussing how to help people, in this case men I think an important thing came up the accusation of the left "being too mean to men." Well, in this video you just used the term the patriarchy several times, yes you are being too mean to men. The boys and men who look up to the hustlers like Andrew Tate are young men who have literally nothing, what's so disgusting about those hustlers is that they don't feed on the top of society, they devour those who fell to the bottom. Then here "the left" walks up to these men at the literal bottom, utterly alone with no one and nothing and you say "the problem is the patriarchy" literally using language to imply that society was built and structured from the ground up to serve them and their needs. They, being a person at the literal bottom where only their own mother cares if they live or die hear you say "the problem is society is built around you and we need to stop that" and they just tune you out because the language you have chosen to use implies to them that you think that they should have less when they have nothing already. Something the left needs to do if they genuinely want to help people is JUST THINK about how you talk to people. There's so much talk about "no no no no! The patriarchy hurts men too!" Stop, you already lost the argument. You said "the patriarchy" meaning a society built by and for men's benefit. You already told these men and boys who have nothing that you think society is built around them, for them and that you are for them having less by the term "the patriarchy." Come up with a better term because that one is going to lose you those men and boys every time. It's something you should work on too because a society that doesn't help those at the bottom is doomed to collapse.
Well said, I always hated the term feminist and used Egalitarian because targeting one gender even in the name is going to push boys and men away. I don't use boxes to identify my political leanings anymore but have always leaned left, hearing "leftists" respond with "but patriarchy tho" is very discouraging. American obsession with political pendulum swings is crazy. Women already outearn men in major cities, women dominate colleges, women have the pick of the litter in dating. I love that women aren't discriminated against as much as if it were the 40s but we can't leave the boys behind. All the talk of free college, how about more accessible trade schools or putting workshop back in high school and treating those professions with the same level of respect as a data analyst? I listen to this guy on occasion because I like my views challenged but true leftists really don't care that men are falling an endless cycle of loss powered by the Mattew Effect. Leftist men are like "I got a girl I don't know what's wrong with y'all" let them fall into MGTOW, Red Pill, Black Pill rabbit hole. People need community and gatekeeping like this dude does like "put in the work to get political beliefs that are exactly like mine or kick rocks" is so toxic. Yes, people should work to better themselves but having community helping you and encouraging you makes that journey 100x easier and locking it behind "think exactly like me or go join the right" is wild.
Right? I have ALWAYS hated that term. As a poor POC who grew up in a wealthy white city/town, hearing rich white girls excuse their economic advantage and claim the inverse was true cause "patriarchy" sent teenage me into fits of rage. Patriarchy as in the patriarch of the land makes sense, that's a class analysis. But the genetic essentialism that's crept in is absolutely disgusting. It's ALL about class, Oprah has more in common (in terms of policy interests) with the Murdoch family than any POC woman, they're media Moghuls, they want less regulation, less taxes and more access to the market. But a poor female rancher, and me (usually a warehouse or kitchen worker)? We've got a lot of policy interests in common. And they're important enough to me to set aside social differences (at least for now).
When you describe what men want - economic stability, making enough to support a family and social standing, is 💯true as I reflect on what my husband tells me. And this is only going to get worse with Ai and automation. Men (and all genders) need to feel safe, stable l, a valuable contributor, and connection.
Gonna be one hunno: whatever justifications we might make for it, I really think that casual bashing of dominant groups by the left really, really drives away the normies. By all means talk about sexism and toxic masculinity and so on, but if I’m a more or less apolitical white male normie looking at the left and seeing a neverending torrent of “white people amirite lol” or “men suck lol” shit, it’s just gonna drive me to the right. Why would I want to be friends with people who are constantly mocking me all day long? The only position I can occupy in that space is basically being constantly apologetic for existing; it’s toxic. Get rid of that and you can still be a feminist/anti-racist ally without feeling under attack constantly (and thus more likely to be driven to the right).
I think its more that they can't honestly criticize everyone because they're constantly placating their core audience. "Men" are doing this, but then they mark behaviors that's happening in every demographic. When I hear from my friends, or when my women friends themselves engage in domestic violence, I ask, "did the patriarchy make them/you do that?" More leftists need to realize the limitations of qualitative data, and singling out individuals because of a statistic that they're only heard about is never going to earn you friends. Trying to guilt someone into doing what you want is only going to placate weakminded people who have no backbone, and the leftists who use that strategy are oldfashioned abusers. The answer isn't to side with the other abusers, but to be better. Sometimes that means pulling back and criticizing 'both sides'.
🔥 as always.
I feel like this whole "the left is failing men" rhetoric is in part yet another example of how men are socially manipulated for other people's gain. It's a rallying cry for engagement by validating a victim complex that's built on blaming marginalized people (especially women), not the empathetic outreach it's masquerading as. It essentially boils down to "Other people aren't helping you, and you *should* be mad about it!" when so many of us have been tirelessly challenging the systems that subjugate all of us, and trying so hard to call them into that effort and sense of unity.
Bars
That's...that not what of that 'rhetoric' means, and are you equating the Left to just mean marginalized people because while we may make up a huge portion that not what anyone means when they say the Left is failing men.
Your cooking at a michelin star level.
@@LewdNoodz What does it mean then, pray tell?
Preach!!
Frankly, that 60% of high school teenagers accurately assessed themselves as not understanding politics shows a level of self-reflection that I wish was shared by a most adults.
THIS
honestly true af
True. Also, it’s probably worth making a distinction between “indecision” and “doesn’t know shit about.”
Amen!!
@@grammapoliceis there really a distinction between those tho?
getting off twitter is healthier than drinking more water
Yup, removing the thorn won't heal the wounds, but by god does it help
Absolutely. I'm thinking about axing Facebook too.
@@ChromeDestinythinking about ….where 90% of the population have already made their decision after reading their data is being blatantly sold (most have deleted the app)
@@ChromeDestiny Definitely should. I know your comment is 4 months old, but in that time Facebook has become so fucking toxic. Angry people everyone being angry in the comments.
Twitter has a way of taking things that make you happy and turning it to shit. Leaving did wonders for getting me to enjoy my hobbies again.
"The feminists have stood up and taken just a nice little dropper of poison and put it into the pool of rhetoric. What I'm concerned about is that, as a nation, as a culture, we are literally swallowing these images of men and women."
Sir, you are literally standing in front of a framed logo of the Playboy Bunny...
Literally
I’m 31 years old and have been a feminist since I was 12, and I’ve yet to hear a single feminist argue for the mistreatment of men. Ever.
The feminist agenda has never been about men. That’s what I wish people understood. Feminism is about achieving social equality and codified human rights for women; a goal which has still not been reached, not by a long shot.
If you think that allowing an oppressed group to achieve social equality is an “attack” against the group in power, then that only indicates that the group in power considers themselves fundamentally entitled to the right to oppress the others. AKA: It’s a you problem if you think feminism is “poisoning” society, because women make up half that society, so why wasn’t the playing field level to begin with?
@@CharlieApplesEquality already exists. Get over it.
@@coonhound_pharoahIf that were true we wouldn’t be having this discussion
@@gavo7911 You vastly underestimate how much people like to use fake victimhood as power.
This is one of the main reasons I stepped away from the online left to prioritize IRL action. If you want to help men, then we have to actually help them, not just talk in circles about it.
Great video as always!
Lots of help is talk....
@@BeautifulEarthJa I’m pretty sure by talking she meant arguing in a circle with Greek statue profile pics for hours, that’s unproductive
@@BeautifulEarthJa Talking is good to a point, but people need actual material relief to really trust what somebody is saying. The Panthers had a food program, community defense squads, and free clinics for this reason. Theory-Praxis-Theory, the relationship is dialectical.
I feel it is easier to get a man to talk to you IRL than it is to convince them with posts online. Like, I couldn't care less if a man on the other side of the world saw a tweet and changed his ways, to me it is much more effective to talk to my male friends and help them through things. Lend an ear when they are struggling, offer some physical contact if I am comfortable they won't take advantage, try to make them see me as a human like them and not part of the contents of a trophy case, you know. Sometimes they are even more vulnerable than women are - once my husband was showing me Bojack Horseman and in a particular scene, someone grabs his junk to make a point. At the end of the scene, I was uncomfortable and said "well, that was SA" and he bluescreened. He had to change the sexes around in his head to recognize that, if it was reversed, it would be SA, so that scene was also SA. He watched the whole show alone before and it never occurred to him. I can make way more progress inside my community by engaging with it than talking to the void through a screen.
@@LunaWitcherArtSo much respect for this outlook. I had an acquaintance pass away in recent months due to complications from decades of alcoholism, and by all accounts, there was no real discussion in his circle of friends about what he was struggling with and if he needed real help. I'm not saying he didn't bear responsibility, but it seemed like he really was alone. It really shook me up. I started to see how my own friends were struggling and I've been trying to reach out. I have had my own struggles, and with time I realized I was so inwardly focused that I didn't really see that others could be hurting too. It sounds awful in hindsight, but some part of my brain couldn't fathom that just because I'd had it bad, that didn't mean that others could need help. I'm still working on it--I don't want to leave them hanging like this person was.
And Bojack hit me hard when I watched it. It does a great job of turning a story about an incurable narcissist into a story about mental health and redemption. It's really good to see it having an effect on others too.
I just wanna say, as testimony, that my life is 1,000% better in every possible way since I left Twitter (and other social media). I'm touching so much grass that now I'm touching grace, boys.
To be fair, Twitter was always awful at disseminating well thought out ideas and beliefs so that people can come to a better conclusion.
Uhhh....what?
@@BleedForTheWorld Yeah, I mean, whatever, that's why I've always preferred to read books and now I have even more time to read more of them.
@@ChillingTales12 What you've read.
@@yungguattari4924 Sorry those last few words sounded off
"I don't think everyone is built for every conversation" oof yes. Just having the wisdom to realize you are ill equipped or emotionally leading on something serious will have a huge impact on people not absorbing the wrong message from you. I appreciate people who observe the practice of "I'm going to think on this for a minute" lol
I think this guy made a really good video about masculinity but he and the other creators he mentioned don’t know what men’s issues are and are unable to talk about them like they are easily able to talk about other group’s issues so this is not a conversation for them to have.
It’s so toxic to downplay men’s issues and these guys even think they don’t exist. Yes the Econ being bad hurts men and everyone but stuff like dropping out of school, workforce and severe loneliness and dating issues are specifically male. For women’s issues we don’t and should never have to always bring sexual assault against men when talking about women.
On that it’s so toxic center everything around women’s issues in a video about men’s issues. Yes patriarchy is relevant to bring up but they think the conversation is done everyone is content after patriarchy is brought up. Nobody talking about patriarchy ever wants to actually help men
When I'm emotionally leading, I usually know and don't care. Honestly, I have too few constructive outlets.
When I don't feel the need to be emotional, I can think constructively. But in the heat of the moment it does no good to try.
I started realizing how much people hate this thing of "thinking before making a decision" in certain topics, but in the end that's what everyone wanted to do and can't, since they'll criticize each other for it lol.
“The left is failing men” meanwhile the right is pushing alpha male sigma edits that scare the fems worse than any Danny Brown or Earl Sweatshirt song
those dudes aren't scary.
@@daintycaked their songs are scary tho
cant forget peggy to
@@zerobullets6935 Earl Sweatshirt?
Wait did they do something?
Lol she had me in the description for a second and I almost blushed and died
Alright. My boy Foreign is moving up in the world.
Big Body Foreign rising
@@appleswithpeanutbutter609im going to say I haven’t seen the video yet but I’m aware of a couple of the controversies involving those creators. Being autistic is a possible explanation not an excuse. Might make you unaware of how something might come off to the majority of people but that doesn’t mean it didn’t cause any harm or influence on others. Autistic people aren’t toddlers. We are capable of understanding when we have messed up even unintentionally and are capable admitting our fault. It is infantilizing to say we can’t see how our actions had unintended consequences and apologize afterwards and learn from them
@@appleswithpeanutbutter609what an embarrassing comment
That “what do conservatives stand FOR” point is extremely poignant. They share an extremely reactionary perspective on America. Conservatives too often fall for that “they’re coming for our kids”, fear-mongering rhetoric. Stand FOR nothing, fall for anything. Great vid!
@@SigmaGentPodcast last conservative to enact any policy that would actually aid and/or make those things possible?
@@SigmaGentPodcast and what was that policy^
@@Dr.cozmorehe is talking about the Conservative peoples wants not the acts of politicians
This statement is so dumb. They stand for the opposite of what leftist stand for. So they stand for something
@@soxysack3287 if you can’t have a consensus on what you want and what your representatives actually do, how could you argue for them in good faith?
I think it's worth pointing out that it's rather difficult to discern whether the size of MRA reactionary bullshit is increasing, or it's just rapidly approaching 100% visibility for the figures themselves.
It’s reactionary, the dating scene and the economy are dumpster fires and only seem to be getting worse
Honestly I think it's increasing. How many studies has it been now showing young men are in crisis. 2022 had the highest male suicide rate on record and what is the left doing about it? The right is definitely swindling these young men for a quick buck but at least they are acknowledging their issues while we spend all day demonising "cis-men" confusing the political and economic male elite for the average man barely holding it together. How much more proof does there need to be?..we have to do better.
@@GuerrillaGorilla023Yeah but it's also in a negative feedback. MRAs can't date while publicly being MRAs.
Those who do end up in a relationship can't keep it going into marriage because they have unsustainable ideas on relationships.
Kind of the same with conspiracy theories. People have always believed in crazy shit, it's just easier to connect now with the internet.
But then again the flood of misinformation, and intentional misinformation put out by the Internet Research Agency is a real thing.
It's not bullshit and there's nothing wrong with being a reactionary.
As a young person I think a lot of us respond with things like “I don’t know” is because we have grown up with so much info from everywhere all of the time without the ability to process things it seems easier and (at least in my case) more considerate to say “I don’t know”. Because, there are so many issues and nuances in our world and that we know we are gonna be the ones left to try and fix it. We are exhausted and don’t wanna fuck anything or anyone over. I was born in a post 9-11 world and so I don’t know what it was like before, but from what people say, my “normal” seems so dystopian to others. It’s frustrating because theres so much fear all around, but fear is tiring. To be completely honest, I’m not entirely sure what the exact point of this comment is, but I wanna say that it makes sense we most often reply with things like “I don’t know”, because as soon as you think you might know something, you could very easily be proven otherwise, and shunned for it. If you say “I don’t know” you are giving yourself protection against any potential opposition.
Honestly, that's a lovely quality to have. It's wonderful to hear someone say "i don't know", because it lets you know that you can trust them to not lie to you for their own ego. 'Cause when they DO know something, you can be sure they _actually_ know what's up and aren't talking out of their ass :)
P.S. I think you're right, btw. Growing up with access to such an absurd amount of information, younger people have always been confronted with the reality that it's completely impossible to know even a teeny-tiny fraction of the sum of human knowledge (even 1% would be crazy). There's just way, way too much data for any one brain, so as a consequence y'all are a lot more comfortable saying "yeah I have no clue".
(I like it a lot more than the boomer "oh, I will confidently answer this query I know literally NOTHING about because nobody ever told me I'm full of shit", anyway..)
@@idontwantahandlethough thank you so much! 😊 And I agree, Ive found its much more beneficial in the long run to say you don’t know something than it is to try and give an answer that you don’t have ( as I have also seen with a lot of boomers)
Oh definitely, if I don’t know something and can’t call up someone who does know, then I just say “I don’t know” because for all the information that we may have, there are always going to be gaps, especially when you’ve grown up in various times, I was born a few months after 9/11, so there are going to be things that are foreign to me that wouldn’t be to someone 10 years older the same way there are things I might understand more than they do
You know what ? It’s okay not to know.
My outlook was dystopian from the get and that was '82. Absentee father and the inability to just ignore so many idiotic societal constructs made life so much of a chore. Everywhere you look is some needlessly 'macho' dipshittery. Never mind the economic brain death the US has. What makes me sad is how it took the internet for more people to start seeing how poorly we do everything.
Living in a very left wing area and being left wing I definitely have experienced that many of the loudest “feminists” avoid nuance and outright do not want to entertain the idea that men are able to be oppressed under capitalism or that there might be double standards in society that negatively affect men. They view that conversation as being harmful to women. And I do think it’s more of an issue with these people being the loudest and most active, not necessarily being a majority. I find this attitude to do damage to the overall movement of the left. We gotta have nuance and we gotta be able to hear each other out
The problem with this though is it always breaks down into issues other groups suffer as well. Certain issues are just unique to women in terms of capitalist oppression. For instance not being hired because women are supposed to be in the home, while not technically legal theres still a lot of employers out there who are like that. For instance men complain they have a higher chance of dying on the job, but when you look into its all jobs that notoriously dont hire women due to a long standing culture of "its a mans job". Which is really how you see the cycle of this stuff. Men want to protect their claim to some sort of honor, being the ones who take the brunt, but women being able to do those jobs as well is a threat to this claim to victimhood. They ironically become the oppressor just to show they have some claim to oppression.
@@Tinylittledansonman but that's just it. Just kinda brushing off that stuff as "a culture of 'its a mans job'" doesn't exactly make for a welcoming environment for men who may not necessarily feel comfortable in conservative spaces, but are otherwise isolated or feel different from leftist spaces. If we want to be truly intersectional, we have to treat them with the same empathy we give to more marginalized peoples.
@@lman318 At some point "uplifting women" mutated into "vilify all men". I don't know why. Maybe the wrong people made it into authoritative positions. You cannot bring up issues that men face without it being brushed off, having the blame put on yourself, or paying lip service to women's issues first. It's an actively hostile environment to men and people just don't want to admit it.
@@Tinylittledansonman
You pretty much exemplified exactly the thing you tried to deny. Instead of acknowledging the suffering of men, you tried to explain it away, to gaslight and distract. Because even if you were somehow correct in your claims, which you are factually not, it would still solve absolutely nothing. Okay, so let's assume men are more likely to die in certain jobs solely because those employers don't hire women. So what? Does that stop men from dying? Does that negate the phenomenon of more men dying? Does that negate the existence of the double standard? Does that help men? Does that allow men to feel more welcome in this conversation? Or did you simply use hollow rhetoric to callously dismiss the suffering of men and actually blame them for it? Because, from what I see, all you tried to do was to find a way to invalidate men's suffering. You are literally doing the thing you are claiming doesn't happen.
@@noxteryn I didnt though? I explained why its generally bad faith discourse which purposely ignores the point that we live in a patriarchal society so these are issues only men can fix. Basically when discussing feminism it doesnt make sense. Why would you be asking women to fix issues that exist on a male to male level? Just to talk over them? It seems to always spiral into simply blaming women once again lol.
Men have failed men. Instead of encouraging each other and the youth to understand themselves, most of us have been teaching and encouraging the idea that manhood is a performance and that somehow as males we have no value until we learn how to make a dollar. It should be no surprise that so many are choosing to no longer live. Our obsession with hiding our insecurities with symbols of power and hierarchy climbing has been slowly killing us. We are failing ourselves.
It’s really frustrating seeing nobody want to admit this. Blaming others for centuries seems to just make everyone feel better. It’s exhausting. 🤦♀️
Men are always responsible for their own outcomes? Ironic
MRAs and people get angry at the word patriarchy never EVER admit these things. They either believe there's been a secret cabal of women who've been controlling dudes since Adam & Eve or all the bad things men do like hazing and torturing and bullying are done in the name of making men stronger/better.
Excellent point. White man from north east England speaking. Boys and men need historical perspective and to be encouraged to focus on gathering knowledge. Knowledge allows us to see a world beyond the self. We are not all the same as one another but the difference is not as great as we would like to imagine. Peace to you and yours.
In the US the lost truly do lead the lost. It's been a long enough issue that it really can't be ignored anymore.
This was so powerful, smart, and kind. As a wife to a husband, a mom and stepmom to three young men, and a mental health advocate, I see firsthand how men are struggling. I want men to be mentally well - with or without women - because healthy men help make the world better for us all. Thank you for making this video.
One of the things I love about this channel and his approach.. he's human. He ain't perfect. I dont think he'd ever claim to be, but he always at least attempts to see wtf the root is in a situation. That usually leads to kindness. I'm betting it has to do with his time teaching students he didn't identify with (talked about it in his Burnham vid). Empathy is a powerful ally.
The world is the way it is because of men, i don't care about men i care about humans..i don't know any man who would rather be a woman...
They are Kenough
Not because you care about them as intrinsically valuable human beings. Because it will make the world better.
Would it kill you to just care about men for their own sake?
@@mrosskne you’re joking, right?
I looked at this and said “I remember being a 12-grader… and I didn’t know or didn’t care about political self-identification”
Glad to know I was part of the 60% 😂
It's pretty normal. I've been a-political my whole life until it was forced down our throats by the media starting around 2014.
Today kids are being taught divisive political subjects in school. We didn't have that issue.
I think todays politics and the politics of years ago is very different.
We didn't have open nazi's back in the early 2010's as an example. They were hidden.
Now, folks can just spout nazi rhetoric and nobody bats an eye.
Its easier to be brought into the world of politics when there's something to fight for that is in your face.
This is why, I believe, that if it werent for the Ben Shapiro's of the world, that 60 percent would be much lower. Because a lot of right-wing content larps as 'Center leaning' or non-political when its not.
@@FictitiousCtrlGames It looks like someone deleted my response to this. I wonder if this one will be deleted as well.
There were definitely open nazis back in the 2010's, it's just that nobody cared about them. They weren't in the news because they were insignificant in number (and still are). Today the media tries to make you think there's a nazi around every corner, every person who says something mildly right wing may be a "dog whistling nazi". There may even be a nazi under your bed! They're literal boogie men now. Total paranoia.
Are you joking about spouting nazi rhetoric and nobody bats an eye?? Even if someone says something considered right wing, they get banned from social media. Actual Nazi rhetoric can get police knocking at your door.
I considered myself an anarchist lol. Leftist now. Abolish capitalism
Excellent vid FD. Too much "leftist" commentary now is talking about what ppl are talking about on twitter and that isn't real social justice.
I hated how that polluted the mainstream media too. I hope this was all a big lesson for them but probably not.
I don't know where you live but here in London it seems Twitter is everyones life now, like almost everyone is living it and I am sick of it.
@@samuelboczek1834I'm from Brum and I've noticed alot of UK twitter is like that. I deactivated my account last week, had enough.
It's how a lot of franchises keep their financial footing. They need conservatives to keep saying crazy shit so they can make that the backbone of their program. That keeps casual traffic up and reassures ad buyers that the deep issues will stay in the background. They need audiences to feel more than they think.
If the hosts can slip in a reminder now and then about how they really feel about those issues - _but not how they think_ - it can reach millions. But honestly they can't even do a weekly segment on those topics or they immediately lose audience and influence.
i really love how your second channel has deep and meaningful content, because while I love video essays, my life is less and less accommodating to the longer videos. Its nice to just pop on a 20 minute video to get a little bit more informed and entertained in my small periods of free time
It’s like reader’s digest for youtubez
Dang I must be the only person that will stop a video and come back later if its too long for me to finish 😂😂
@@deelee4639 yeah i do that too, but then often forget to come back to it lol
@@purple-flowers My TH-cam must be different. It shows me stuff I havent finished if I am subscribed.
Nothing wrong with watching them in parts. Especially bc they're usually well divided into chapters
Misogyny is so consistent over time. Even before the 60s, the thrust of a lot of literature was that women were the jailers of men, and abandoning them was the only way to be free. Henry Miller, Jack Kerouac, so many writers I love reading treated the women in their stories not as characters but obstacles for their protagonists to overcome. I'm still recovering from the havoc these works wreaked on my worldview at 36 years old.
That being said, my favorite part of this video was your emphasis on peoples self regulation and introspection as paramount in having productive discourse. It is so important for us to assess where we are, what we can handle and what we have to offer to know how to do good work and change what we dont like about the world going forward.
Misogyny has never existed.
This! As a lover of literature and a person who grew up around writers. I spent YEARS worshipping at the alter of important white men, who wrote important white men stories. Giving lip service to those exact authors. Putting myself in men’s shoes and drowning in internalized misogyny. It wasn’t until I started reading plays that I began to doubt the genius of these men.
(Thank you David Mamet! For being just nasty enough that I had to call bullshit. That teacher play 😵💫😛.)
Some women ARE jailers of men. Abusive relationships can be difficult to cut off after all, be you a man or a woman. And I think women are taught to be catious around men more then men are tought to be cautious of dangerous women.
@@principleshipcoleoid8095 I find that in many cases, society at large will even cover up for and deny the existence of abusive and dangerous women. Plenty of mothers are abusive to their kids. How often do you hear about abusive fathers/step-fathers but never about abusive mothers/step-mothers, who often use psychological abuse versus physical abuse?
@@SurplusMen indeed. Gamma bias go brr (HBR, probably Karen specifically talked about it but an academic gave this idea a name)
Your thing about some people being too young to know that this is history repeating itself is so real. A lot of the times I see shows like King of the Hill being discussed and kids will think a character like Dale predicted the rise of Q-Anon, never realizing that the seeds for that shit have been around for a long time.
Qanon was right about everything
The media getting all bent out of shape about qanon makes qanon stuff more and more plausible by the day.@@mrosskne
@@somebodysomewhere6770hahahahaha no. Qanon is a nutty conspiracy nonsense. How's that storm working out for ya on jan 6?
There's a reason the study of history is so restricted in secondary education. Sometimes people _want_ us to be ready to repeat past mistakes.
@@somebodysomewhere6770is that how you dictate your own view of reality? how angry a particular news organization is?
For the record, as a 12th grade white boy I’m not a conservative. But what you said about social media for teenagers is right, theres so much red pill type content that gets shoved at me by algorithms even if I never watch them. Problem isn’t with the left “failing men” it’s with capitalism. I think just looking at the real world and having real world experiences off the internet is enough to deter any young person from conservatism. It’s hard to stare at the blatant problems all around you and still think conservatism and capitalism are a good idea today.
People like you give me hope. Bravo!
Would you say that your classmates share your views?
Also, just having enough real world experience makes it really easy to see the red pill bullshit peddled online that's pandered to us men for what it is: bullshit.
I see their assertions on what the world is really like to be incredibly false every day.
Agreed.
Shit I’m a 29 yr old bisexual mom… even I get redpill/right wing content in TH-cam shorts and no matter how much I click do not recommend I still get it pushed onto me, even in my recommended under left wing content.
I imagine it’s a million times worse for boys and men. It sucks that their insecurities are being taken advantage of in this way. I have to help the guys in my life purge their social media of toxic people when they ask me. They’re not even that political they just get annoyed at the same bs being shoved their way over and over and over
Any attempt to break politics down into two camps - no matter how you call them - can do the complexities and realities justice. Odds are you hold a mix of views opinions and convictions and depending on which of those you voice, strangers will put different (and in many cases wildly contradicting) labels on you. Now: sometimes those labels will be used as weapons to shame and silence you. That‘s what right-wingers try to do, when they call someone a socialist or a commie, it‘s what lefties do, when they call someone areactionary or a fascist and it‘s what feminists do, when they call someone a sexist or an incel.
I hold many views that are considered leftist. But there are some issues on which I disagree with the left. Other leftists called me fascist so many times, I no longer want to be associated with them. This kind of incessant purity testing a d outcasting each other over the tiniest of diagreement has plagued the left ever since it started with the European labour movements of the early to mid 1800s, which greatly reduce the political left‘s effectiveness and is why capitalism still exists in its current form.
Lowkey I’ve been focusing on myself and getting somewhat push back on it. I’m in my mid 30’s and realized I haven’t been focusing on my mental health and what I want. I’ve always been a supportive person for other people and no one has asked what I want for myself. That’s why I feel like it’s important to recognize where you are in life mentally. If you’re not happy with yourself then you’re not going to be a help to others. Trying to talk about this with my traditional mom and dad has been a challenge (they want me to marry soon).
Sorry for the long rant but this video did hit me hard.
Mid-twenties and doing the same. I just want to focus on my hobbies and my mental health going where I want to go and doing what I want to do/developing as a person in the ways that I want to develop and prioritizing that over considerations of other people as long as it’s not hurting anyone, of course. Good luck on your self discovery journey friend :-) it’s really nice to know other people out there are doing it and it’s not selfish.
young twenties doing the same. I want to live my life, yet everyone, feminists ESPECIALLY fucking hate it. They want me to be their disposable hero.
Traditional people don't want to hear that they've been doing things the wrong way.
It's a very human reaction. And just like when focusing on yourself in therapy, you have to accept and understand those emotions as reasonable reactions in and of themselves, as opposed to fighting and repressing them, which is both difficult and serves no purpose.
Instead of fighting an emotion, it would be better served to understand the underlying value. The further from a root you stray, the more diverse things become, that is to say, the same root could have many different expressions. And values are very root to the human experience. While a mother may want you to marry, and you may want to focus on yourself, and you two see these two things at odds with one another, you both may value the same thing: your success and happiness. And once you both can accept that, the discussion can center not on the emotionally charged debate of whether or not the value is being appreciated, but on the grounded manner of how, in current times, that is best achieved.
Being a "Shock Jock" has become the norm in media. Even sports media deals in hyperbolic discourse now. You were definitely spot on highlighting Howard Stern.
Or the movie Magnolia includes Men's Rights Seminars and it came out in 1999.
But girls gone wild though?
"What you're seeing is the result of Capitalist Algorithms serving the bottom line of Engagement versus actually spreading good ideas"
Bars. 🔥
Yes, its all about the money.
This a million percent
The issue is if it's not determined by raw engagement from viewers, then who is the arbiter of what is a "good idea?"
I don't know if you've never had a job or understand how money or resources work, but TH-cam became what it had to be to become monolithic, if it made any slight changes it would give away the power that it has to another platform, which for the most part would probably be worse, like kick or rumble, sure this would take years at this point, but your 2D world view of companies purely being bad because of capitalism shows a real lack of world experience or real struggle
Then why the f does this video gets recommend to me? I didn't even watched that other video and I'm not left leaning at all
I rarely comment on TH-cam videos nowadays, but I think its important to voice my thoughts on this. As with literally everything in the universe, the "left is failing men" is a lot more nuanced than at first glance. In my opinion, both sides "fail men," just at different points. A great deal of the left is unwilling to listen to the struggles men face, while the conservative right provide false solutions to their problems. But the difference is that it feels like the conservative right cares about you. That "care," however, is at the expense of others.
Based take
That's exactly what I'm thinking. And like I said to another comment, I believe this is why we got the rise of the whole "Gigachad", "Alpha", "Sigma" male stuff on the internet that spread throughout communities in general.
Completely agree with these points. As a person in both breadtube and MRA spaces, I can tell you exactly why this happened. Most men in MRA spaces (myself included), don't believe that patriarchy (as many in left-wing have framed it -- e.g. a class movement by men to assert long-term supremacy over women) exists. Quite simply, because that's not how society came into existence. the current power structures that empowered men are a natural outgrowth of the increasing sizes of pre-civilizational tribes needing a hierarchical structure to manage them. Of course, now that we have entered an industrial and post-industrial political and economic situation, such structures are no longer necessary, certainly not necessary in the ossified pre-modern forms. Equality should be a goal at this juncture, and that includes the empowerment of minorities and women.
However, because society was created with certain roles for men in that pre-modern society, many of the assumptions of how men were to be used and abused in that system (such as being sent to die in war, being seen as economic inputs rather than as human beings, such as being disregarded as an important domestic partner or child-raiser, such as being seen as more potentially criminal, etc.) continue to be pervasive stereotypes. And, my experience is, that despite how willing the Left is to confront the incorrect and malevolent stereotypes concerning women and minorities, they support and empower these stereotypes about men in the incorrect belief that doing so will serve to empower women and minorities. Conversely, the conservatives lens these negatives positively, making them appear to be caring whereas the Left appears to be glorifying the failures.
I don't understand why people on the Left don't simply address how neoliberal economics has made it impossible for the vast bulk of men to be able to secure the kind of economic and personal future that most men aspire to and the particular benefits of collective bargaining, industrial collectives, the strength and need for blue collar work, and, perhaps even the future beyond work. Perhaps people on the Left can address where men can be contributors rather than claim that male suffering is some comeuppance for a class war that they reject even happened.
The rhetoric "left is failing men" comes because the right never really cared while the left claims to care
i mean i think its dangerous to treat all people of 'insert group of people here' the same, seeing as how big the conservative right is you CANT treat them the same, take a million people as far as im concerned, 60-70% of them are idiots, 20% know that they are idiots to some degree 15% are just not good people, they arent evil they just never learned proper human decency and the rest is just outright malicious, and i stand by that for ANY group of people that is at that size. so imo its not that the conservative right is un caring its that they like most people are idiots, im sure the majority of the conservative right actually thinks they are helping young men, statistically the majority of people are good people, idiots but good hearted, the problem is its rarely the average person that is in charge of any kind of movement or group of people, the person in charge is usually the arogant SoB who has the stomach for backstabbing, lying and manipulating and that goes for the left as much as for the right and anything else, as with all things there are exceptions but they are exceedingly rare, the main reason for this is that the leader of a movement/company or group of people doesnt have the same goal as the people that follow them, the people who follow want change, they want things to be better, but the people in charge dont, they want to STAY in power, the best way to stay in power? make sure nothing changes
Following the phrase “in a tizzy” with “ a nigga like me” got me weak
You put such a neat bow on this discourse. “Left wing Andrew Tate” will not save men from the despair of capitalism.
but it might save men from the despair of their interpersonal lives.
How is it capitalism when women are thriving under capitalism?
It is not about capitalism.
Capitalism isn't really bad though. What *is* bad is the general lack of a social safety net around the world. Competition between companies is good
"Despair of capitalism"? No. Stop shoving this pinko propaganda into men's issues. We aren't struggling because the state doesn't have full control of the economy.
That's always my biggest, and often only argument towards these types of discussions within my generation. So much of it has devolved into "dunking" on the opposing viewpoints and becoming so emotionally engrossed in their stances that the dialogue becomes not only unhealthy, but stagnant to the point we spend all of our energy wasting our breath instead of taking steps towards change.
honestly tho? a lot of people who just piss and moan about the deplorable state of discourse would probably be out looking to shoot someone if more steps were taken towards change. we deeply fear change, especially when it stands to benefit people who are not like us.
Sound will be there soon. This is a glotch that often happens
It's not just audio on my end. The video keeps flickering in and out at times.
It might just be my internet/phone.
Also nice shirt FD.
Man I hate glotch
Glotch is the worst
@@windybro3446
God damm glotch and there glotching all over the place.
Me at 15: "I'm moderate"
Me at 21: "I'm Libertarian:
Me at 22 - onwards: growing steadily more leftist as I got out into the world, has access to my own finances, had experiences, moved to big cities (I lived in rural areas 0-22), learned more about the world, etc.
Im just on opposite road. I live in different country so () are examples of equivalent in USA
16: Socialist (Bernie Sanders idealogy)
21: Centrist (Money out of politics and Obamacare)
31: Almost Rightwing/Nationalist (In USA that would be moderate republican)
What does Planned Obsolescence have to do with economics?
The US designed and built its first 400+ mph planes to fight WWII. In 1964 the SR-71 Blackbird took to the air which could do 2000 mph. What kind of computers existed in 1964?
But cars that look different and roll along the ground at less than 150 mph have been produced since 1946 when Keynes died. Did he ever see a television commercial for automobiles?
Where is the annual data on the depreciation?
@@psikeyhackr6914 not sure if you commented on right place? Maybe mix up?
@@samuelsilver8077
Bro I'm 31 too! High five on surviving, but I'm sorry about your back. But my ass has gotten only more extreme as time has gone on and that survival and struggle for it has revealed to me more and more how deep the problems go. I understand that the work won't end with my generation, and that's okay. I don't care if other nations see us as weak, I care if my fellow human is alive and well. And that's not a guarantee in this world. I'm older than my cousin ever was, he died of a heart attack at 25. Not obese, just type 1 diabetes because of unfortunate genes, apparently they're at a higher risk level of that. I have lived 6 more years than he ever experienced, and he used to be older than me. Life is too short to worry about your fear of change, better to take care of whatever business you can while we're here on this earth. Keeping everything the same is just not possible, as even the same current actions will lead to irrevocable change at a global scale. Either the world must change, or we the humans have to change. And it's much harder to change the world the longer we refuse to recognize this dilemma. Peace be with you, brother.
@@samuelsilver8077
Lots of junk gets tossed into leftism now but at the end of the video he finally got to capitalism and economics. The screwed up economics aggravates lots of other problems. Leftists sabotage themselves by not staying on point.
Men bad feminism is like any other philosophy that makes broad sweeping stereotypes about large groups of people based on racial or sexual classifications. If it lacks nuance and relies only on the stereotypes it can easily be just another form of bigotry. Sure there are plenty of men who fit the stereotype but when you stop viewing them as individuals and start talking as if they are a single entity you are not helping.
As a wise, slimy anarchist once said, "It's going to naturally be more difficult to get people who currently benefit from the status quo on our side.".
But do men really benefit from the status quo? Oh yeah, they have 'power' but it's not like.... worth anything when the people with real power are the bourgeoisie. Men's issues aren't as severe as women or LGBT peoples, even those some LGBT people are men, but it's still am issue worth acknowledging.
@@LewdNoodz When the aspirations of most men are "have loud car and get laid" yea I'd say patriarchy gives them a lot of what they want.
I think its more so a percieved benefit. They dont have to challenge any pre-existing beliefs and its just easier to maintain the status quo. Its easier for me to pretend to be serious and "manly" then to open up and possibly receive criticism. Hence why the Steven Crowder types are like man babies who have to get their way. They and I guess myself included arent used to being criticzed for behaviors we assume to be the default male behavior.
@@LewdNoodzliterally yes. Not as much as they’d benefit from an inclusive society? But how can you honest to god act as if being in 99% of positions of power across history “doesn’t favor you”
@@Jane-oz7ppminimizing a group of peoples feelings to “have loud car and get laid” is not how we progress
Thank you thank you thank you! As a 52 year old feminist with 60% of a PhD, a teacher for 30 years of students from high school to post-grad, I cringe at what gets mainstaged as feminist on these platforms. I’m as sick of people not doing the reading but claiming expertise. It’s fine to not be academic but don’t also claim to be across the subject. Stopping rant now. Just really needed to say thank you 🙏🏼 🙏🏼👏🏼🌻
Feminism is whatever feminists say it is and how they act. You can’t claim you know the true feminism when that’s really the minority opinion on what feminism is from even feminists.
Everybody does that kind of thing with their groups but doesn’t afford that to their opponents and it’s silly. Trying to help Men is boiled down to being the same as Tate and leftists have to bring up Tate every time they talk about men. They would not be talking about men if it wasn’t for Tate
@@toivo4801 The comment you're replying to is very literally the opposite of a No True Scotsman...
60% of a phd is no phd.
i cringed when he reframed not completing the degree as well.
THE problem is that people love talking, but people hate being academic.
@@jonasdowner How is the completion of that degree material to the comment at all? The experience, training, and commitment to the methodology of obtaining that degree is far more material, isn't it? In the frame of "being academic".
As someone who just graduated highschool I can say that politics usually just lead me to an identity crisis. With a developing brain and the algorithm teaching you about politics you’re essentially screwed. You get thrown about all over the place , until eventually you have no idea what to stand for or what to believe. I think the algorithm is very predatory on a young mind in that way, one week your right one week your left. Since you don’t know anything about politics or critical thinking you often end up switching sides from one video covering radicals. Videos like these are very helpful, someone who accurately assess’s data and politics in a non manipulative way. I have no idea what I am, for awhile I was a centrist, not like joe rogan tho, like I was an actual centrist. But now after watching people like you and foreign I’m getting more interested in the left. Thank you for you’re contribution to genuine political discourse.
Be careful. Look carefully into the ideologies of both sides.
I think the best way to get solid ground is look at history. When I started actually researching the history of specifics like why college is so expensive now, why there are so many homeless people now, who influenced who to wreck our tax system, I become more certain of what I believe, and less tribal. I’m a leftist, but I’m not attached to anyone. I vote D cause that’s the closest I can get in a two party system, but I’ll happily call out the bad actors like Biden signing green energy bills while also simultaneously granting more drilling permits than Trump did. Believe in fundamentals. Have positions, not clubs.
History is definitely a great teacher.
Not only is it a good idea to look into the complex reasons why certain things in society are bad, but also why others are good - both in a general sense (as the poster above mentioned: why are there homeless, why is health insurance expensive; but also, why are there so many black people in us prisons, who gets to be a CEO and why) but also in relation to certain groups (why are there poor neighborhood and why are they often black or based around immigrants, why are indigenous communities often suffering from alcoholism)
And then you should also go one step further and look at global situations (why is there such a thing as a third world, what are the historic reasons that created the current situation in the middle east - those ranging back centuries, but also those from the start of the 20th century, why is English now used in so many places) and also look at reasons for truly horrific historical events like WWII and WWII, and the justifications people used for atrocities and put them into context (meaning to read the accounts of people who were a target and off those who opposed the atrocities in their time - don't just read Hitler's own explanations and call it a day obviously)
But you have to make sure to look a bit deeper than just getting a summary, because then you aren't getting served a simple story to reinforce a viewpoint through omission of facts.
Read actual articles and books by experts - historians, sociologists, etc.
School should give you this information or at least teach you how to properly five it, but modern school systems are usually intentionally very bad at this and you basically have to develop academic levels of critical thinking on your own to really understand complex systems and see through a lot of bullshit.
Try learning about more local politics! It tends to be less full of misinformation and helps you to start understanding politics in general so you’re more prepared for all the convoluted federal stuff.
Thank you all for your responses, I'll try to apply them as best as I can. I love the idea of learning from history, so simple, I guess things don't need to be as complicated as I've made them. I'll continue to learn more about politics, I'm currently leaning a little to the left, but I'd say I'm more of an independent. I wish they didn't make it so you have to pick a certain side, really reinforces the tribal mentality. You'd think they'd let you vote for whoever and change the party system a bit.
The ideological gender gap is just moving down in age cause of social media.
It’s funny you mentioned Tucker Max. I was 13 when he was at his peak and I remember how funny I thought he was. As an adult it is easy to see just how damaged he was. I say was because by all appearances he went to therapy, found out he was a deeply unhappy man, and has done a 180 on his life. He’s happily married now and has written a book about how to not be like his old self.
It’s funny because actual analysis of Tucker Max or The Game shows just how sad and shallow these “alpha males” truly are. If their fanbase actually had media literacy, they’d realize this.
I think what I dislike most about how so many conversations both online and offline goes is that some side or person says something to the effect of "I have problem x" or "I am struggling personally or have seen others struggling with y", usually not so explicitly said but its often what they mean.
Then so, so often the response is not one of sympathy, compassion, or any real effort to provide assistance or guidance for that problem, or even acknowledgment of the problem, instead, that person is invalidated in some way, insulted, told their problem is not real, or told that other people have it worse, like that matters. And mind you it's not usually influencers with a following that do the invalidation(well one side does a more often for sure), what I'm talking about are the individual interactions people have in the comments section, in their personal lives, on twitter, where ever.
So often we forget that other people have lived whole entire lives different from our own, have seen completely different sets of data, both literally in the case of graphs, and more figuratively in the case of just anecdotal lived experiences and that those experiences are just so different or varied. Its almost useless to group people together based on anything other than in the way that they are suffering. I hate when people talk and act like there aren't a bunch of young men suffering, I hate when people act like there aren't a bunch of young women suffering, I hate when people act like someone isn't suffering just because of some superficial characteristic like race or gender, I hate it because there are just a lot of *people* suffering unnecessarily right now. At the same time the reasons are incredibly complex, and yet often simple, and the solutions are just as complex though also sometimes seemingly simple.
Idk its all so complicated and over my head a lot of this stuff, what I do know is I have seen my father start to have some silly ideas with Qanon, and rather than anyone acknowledging the grief, fear, hurt, insufficient critical thinking skills, and insecurities that led him down that path he was instead ridiculed, insulted, demeaned, and dismissed. I've seen my little brother lost and without purpose in life, lacking the skills to even communicate his pain, unwilling to acknowledge it even to himself let alone others, turn to drugs and end up in the hospital to dull the pain all the while latching on to anyone who says they can give him the answers he so desperately looks for. Don't get me wrong, my father was every bit as arrogant, smug, and unrepentant as you'd imagine, my brother dumb and naive as teenagers tend to be, but there are no perfect victims. I do what I can, and I'm sure I can do more and better I'm not perfect either, but I just see these same conceptual problems of loss, isolation, and not understanding reflected in so many different areas and ways that it really gets to me. Its more apparent to me when seeing how men are sometimes talked about online, but its true for every group, and the problems attributed to harming them disproportionately more. Black people and cops, women and SA, trans people and their existence to name a few. Its also so tempting to compare those problems, but at the end of the day while I want to help with larger social problems, and I certainly try my best not to make things worse, I care far more about the problems that directly affect me and my family, and I know that is true for all(most) people and I feel like that truth is also often forgotten or ignored by most.
I didn't mean for this to turn into a rant but it did, I appreciate your take and perspective on this and other issues you talked about and especially on trying to raise the level of analysis as you put it, I find it all insightful and well articulated which I appreciate as well.
I've said this for most of my life but I really do wish everyone would just take a step back and chill a little, relax, and reflect for a bit geez.
my wife was giving me shit about that graph recently. My firstreaction to it was, "well, this is dumb", which landed me in more trouble. Thank you for reminding me that a graph isn't all the data.
I'm hooked on your content. I'm an African author (from Zimbabwe but now basically a digital nomad living in the Philippines) and I have written about cultural issues in Africa, in my book "A Vehicle For Progress" and articles for progressive publications. I have learnt a lot about American culture wars from your content.
Could you point us to your works? I'm a native South African and have best tried to learn more about our continent's history, the social and political movements during the late colonial era as well as picking up more non-western perspectives in general.
I just want to say that this channel has certainly, and almost single-handedly, renewed my faith in the possibility of intelligent online discourse.
I'm so happy to see a decently well rounded critique of this whole situation. The red pill/masculinity/feminism rhetoric is often so shallow and most takes don't even start to address the problems I'm seeing.
Hard disagree, every take about it (defending the left, noteably) is too damn deep. Oh yeah the problems facing men are "the crushing weight of capitalism"... Like yeah no shit, but that doesnt give anyone a fucking clue about how to live their day to day life. The destruction of capitalism won't happen anytime in the next century.
The reason the left loses people to andrew Tates is because he doesn't sell a solution for centuries to come, he sells "how can you fix this gaping hole in your heart right now".
It's not only social media though. Right now, once again, I see left-wing political parties fish for female support by insinuating that the Gender Pay Gap is a -30% modifier to your hourly wage if you are a woman.
In that sense it gives me hope (as a fellow 3/4 PhD) to see someone like him who actually cares about what the data can tell us about the real situation and calls out misrepresentations regardless of whether they 'help his team'.
A reasonable stance one might assume, but according to many people calling out such bullshit (or also caring about men's issues, for that matter) seems to be right-wing now.
they're meant to propagate and reinforce a shallow approach and shallow thinking about these issues. that you see the issues in greater depth puts you that much further ahead.
the question is what you (or i or anyone) can do to get others to see things more completely.
@@RatPfink66 TBH there's not much anyone can do. Most people are entrenched in shallow though & refuse to budge. Ignorance is a virtue in many cohorts today. 😒 if anyone figures a way to break through I'm all ears
@@PMickeyDee maybe acknowledge that deep change CANNOT occur without shallow changes.
I always share your vids to my younger brother I’m so thankful he never fell for the Andrew Tate bs but he struggles with loneliness and I find your videos not only helpful but empathetic as well he’s watched them too ❤ your work is much appreciated
I get the feeling you don't don't suffer from the same issues he has which I'm sure it comes down to you having better personality and not being an incel
@@RealNormHall ?? She just said her brother was lonely, nothing else? Where do you get him being an incel from, or her having a better personality? That's a huge reach.
@@RealNormHallthis is kinda the entire point shoeonhead was making, you don't want to help men, you just call them worthless and move on
Growing up in Republican areas, it's such an important point about young people supporting Democrat POLICY while protecting their Republican FAMILY/TRIBAL IDENTITY.
I think one issue we have is that the same space we have serious political discussions is the same space that people vent. So men might see women complaining about the patriarchy in less than academic terms, like “ugh I hate men” and it can feel personal because they’re not used to it.
I don’t think that kind of language is particularly helpful coping mechanism (especially in a world with terfs) but sometimes frustration builds up and you go to the easiest phrase that signals your pain to other members of your marginalised group. I mean, I’ve complained about straight people plenty, and I’m not gonna tone police poc when they complain about white people cause I know they’re talking about the institution.
Funnily enough, tumblr now is a lot better with this strand of feminism. I think a part of that is that the most earnest have just become terfs so the rest have had to do some introspection and distanced themselves.
Edit: Woaaah what happened in the comments when I was away? It's kinda ironic that what I mentioned here, some folk taking the frustrations of marginalised folks personally and as their actual political position, is on display here asdfasdf
I think Tumblr’s lack of any meaningful algorithm also really helped the user base become a bit more…. Mature? There’s still issues, but different ones than you see on algo sites tbh
@@Madison-ur2qn Ohhhh that's a great point, less incentivising outrage!
@@KaleighCee Respectfully, I _dont_ think it goes without saying, and I think assuming it does is kind of a problem when it comes to spreading the message of the movement. You, and some other people probably know what you _mean_ is some men, or those men, or this particular type of man, because they have context clues, but everyone else doesnt have that context and just sees a negative generalization. I stopped saying 'women x' years ago and swapped to 'some women x' specifically _because_ I wanted to more accurately portray I was talking about a specific group and I didnt want people to think I was making reductive or insulting generalizations about women as a whole - because I was aware thats how random strangers would interpret it.
The log in your own eye is knocking over your furniture. Your list of "feminist spaces" is just hilariously inaccurate, and reveals your prejudices. This whole comment reveals more about your perceptions, than reality itself.
The idea that commercial online sites are inherently ideological and political is some kind of paranoia, and a fundamental misunderstanding of these commercial outlets. Note the word commercial. They are looking to garner clicks, so that they can garner advertisers who pay to place advertising. As profit is their primary purpose, they're not punting for any political stance. They're punting for dollar bills. And if they have articles that you perceive as "feminist", it's more a factor of those takes being fashionable and attracting attention than any political stance.
Your comment comes across as "I see feminism everywhere", and that shows that you fundamentally don't understand the essential argument that feminism is making. It is a female perspective, but any female perspective that ignores how men are oppressed too, is missing the whole point of feminism. Women can't be free if men are in chains. And vice versa. We need each other to destroy the chains that bind us.
So for both men and women, there are shared and unique injustices we need to address on a societal and individual level. And to do so we need to understand our own oppression as men and as women. One has to strive for one's freedom and then use that to build solidarity, and then work to free each other and ourselves. To break the structures that seek to exploit us both.
Men and women need to be allies, but it pays those who control us that we don't become that. Divide et Impera. And sadly, your comment suggests you have fallen for that.
You will not be free as long as women are oppressed. Women will not be free as long as men are oppressed.
It doesn't mean that it will be easy, straightforward, or that progress will be linear. Not everyone will understand, or have effective or useful takes that are grounded in reality. And some people prefer being institutionalised. Just watch Shawshank Redemption for a case study in the ranges of response to being imprisoned. Being free is hard work, so not everybody wants that. But, I that doesn't give them the right to condemn others to share it with them.
@@davagevorriose8046I don’t think you’re understanding the function of what I’ll call “ugh men” statements. I want to explain this because I want you and others to approach the behavior of marginalized groups with compassion.
If I’m understanding your argument correctly, the idea is that, because “ugh men” statements paint a blanket picture and serves to reinforce a view of all men(/white people/cishet people/whatever) as a harmful monolith, these statements themselves are harmful.
What they actually are is an attempt to release the built up pain and exhaustion from dealing with oppression. When men hurt you in the same way over and over again, it wears on you. The pain and frustration of never being worthy to them because of your gender, and the hyper-scrutiny of your behavior that they don’t have towards other men, that frustration builds up in your body. It makes you feel crazy and worthless.
By saying “ugh men” and being heard, understood, and validated in that pain, it allows you to feel some worth again. The fact that it is socially inappropriate is part of its healing power; marginalized groups have so much more pressure on them to never say anything wrong/offensive/hurtful. “Ugh men” is a way of affirming that yes, I actually do have a right to my feelings. When done in the right way with the right people (that is, people who know that the problem isn’t men, it’s patriarchy), it allows for healing and moving past your pain in a way that allows for more empathy for men. It’s a transitional state that people use to move towards empowered.
When someone from a privileged group tells you, “you can’t say that because it’s not OK for men to say ugh women”, it reinforces that constant pressure society places on marginalized groups to never show pain or emotion, to never allow themselves to express their hurt.
I’m a White queer nonbinary person who others view as male. When I see “ugh White people” from Black people (mostly on TH-cam spaces like this one; I don’t go to the more heated or toxic parts of the internet), or from BIPOC folks in my life, I understand it, accept it, and don’t take it personally. I know from their relationship with me (or, in the case of content creators, relationships/interactions with White folks on TH-cam) that they are looking to change society in ways that improve conditions for everyone including White people, and that they want White people to do better, and believe that kind of change is possible. And for me personally, having spaces with other nonbinary people where I can say “ugh cis people” is really important for coping with being misgendered literally every time I go outside. When my pain and frustration is heard and validated even though I’m not using “nice” language, it helps me move through that pain, and it makes it easier for me to be out and to help cis people move towards understanding and creating a better world for me and other nonbinary people.
Some people may think, “men aren’t allowed to express emotion either!” But one of the few emotions men can freely express is anger over being mistreated, especially by women. White people are given free reign to be angry at Black people who don’t “act right.” But when women are mistreated because of sexism, or BIPOC folks are mistreated because of racism, it’s minimized, and they’re told it’s all in their head.
None of the “ugh men” that I’m saying is important and valuable applies to pop feminism or social media pages dedicated to talking about how terrible men are. “Ugh men” is important as a transitional, healing stage. If people treat it as an endpoint, it is problematic for all the reasons you mentioned. But it is a place many people with marginalized identities will keep coming back to as long as oppression still exists, because it’s one of the few ways they have to affirm their worth outside of what’s deemed acceptable by the dominant group. So you have your “ugh men” rant with your female/NB friends, you let out that pain, and you move on and get back towards making the world better and more inclusive and understanding for everyone, including men.
I hope that made some sense, and that it was helpful to you or to someone out there.
heat.
I think the problem with this discourse is that is shallow. I actually saw a really good video called "The emotional objectification of men" that explains this problem as another byproduct of the patriarchy. And that it's a problem with gender roles in general. Like for instance how BECAUSE of the systemic issues facing women that women are rightly skeptical and fearful of men in general because of the real dangers they face. Also how men have been conditioned by this patriarchal society to bury our emotions, to not form meaningful bonds with our male friends etc. And I think that's the proper way to frame the issue. Not as a left vs right issue but a more systemic issue based around centuries old societal traditions and gender roles. So again the main problem with this discourse is that the popular lefties who are talking about it aren't digging deep enough. But to be fair this video was linked in Shoe's description box so I gotta give her a partial W for exposing me to this more nuanced view, but yet again speaks to your point about algorithmic viability. But yeah it IS a real problem on the left and right that men's emotional well being isn't really taken all that seriously. We're taught to be the bread-winner, the strong person. The need for emotional validation is also seen as "male entitlement" and to be fair this IS the case for lots of men. But in general the problem is that we're starved of emotional validation and that's something that is necessary for the well-being of all people regardless of gender, race etc. Also comes the problem that younger men are more likely to search for this validation online and the online or "twitter left" is CHOCK FULL of people who say things like "oh poor wittle baby, are you lonely, maybe don't be such a shitty person" or "we have more important things to deal with" or a general trivialization of our issues. Please don't come in my replies and say I'm downplaying women's issues because I am absolutely not. All I'm saying is that male concerns are just as valid and also a byproduct of the same systems that brought us all these problems
Man, do your videos motivate and inspire me. As a fellow Black male creative myself I wanna utilize my art to push these kinda ideals and you always justify what I wanna create and I appreciate that a ton.
Man at this point i despise statistics with a passion, as time goes on i realize how the discipline is so thoroughly misused by everyone and their mama to manufacture false realities, by abstracting the 10 trillion variables that real processes are influenced by and doing away with any qualitative contextual appraisal of any system being studied, in favor of a neat and tidy correlation that will no doubt be called a causation or a simple graph line going up devoid of any other context other than "this proves my belief". Real statistical analysis often looks like "idk there's this fun little trend but we need more data i guess" but people use statistics as if they were rigorous mathematical theorems about society when they're just fallacies presented into a mathematical model that just so happen to defend and uphold the status quo
😮
100% FACTS.
Comment of the YEAR. Twain said it best, "there are three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."
Often when people use stats, and you see this a lot in sports from people trying to push the "Lebron is the GOAT" narrative, they are manipulated to fit pre-existing prejudices. Often people will deploy, whether consciously or subconsciously, the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy and just use numbers in the most ad hoc way to fill in the games.
We live in a world so bereft of critical thinking that all one has to do to engender a kind of scientific deference to ones position is to invoke numbers. People see numbers and outsource their intelligence to the ether.
"Wait, you have stats! It MUST be true then!"
It's the classic confusing the map for the ACTUAL terrain.
Great comment. I could wrote books about this phenomenon.
*gaps (not games)
Yup, stats get used irresponsibly practically all the time at this point.
Imagine the frustration of actual statisticians.
We don't only need better media literacy but tech and stats literacy too.
Lmfao statistics are NOT the issue. Bad actors are
"There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
Don't let anybody tell you what men are supposed to be, be yourself and be righteous, if anyone has a problem with it that's not your fault, pay them no attention, if the world around you discriminates and pushes you you just gotta keep your head up, be humble and keep growing, you're allowed to have faults, to be sensitive, more so you must be proud of it as it is a fundamental part of being human, can nobody take that from you
> be yourself and be righteous
just don't be self-righteous. learning the difference makes all the difference.
The problem with this is it can easily be taken to the extreme of self-righteous arrogance where you believe you are and will always be the upmost truth. That is a very dangerous mindset. You absolutely should take in the opinions of others and digest them. Other people help you grow into a better version of yourself than you could ever do on your own.
You know, i wouldn't really worry to much about what a survey of high schoolers says about their political identities. When i was in high school i thought i was conservative because i thought that meant that you care about the environment. I think you need to ask what they think those terms mean as well.
The real problem with "the Left (TM)" and men (and, let's face it, others to a lesser extent) is that if you are a young man with solidly leftwing views, there is left wing content out there if you are looking for it. If, on the other hand, you are a young man who is anything other than decidedly, actively leftwing, there is a massive amount of well funded, well crafted right wing content out there that is looking. For. You.
By the way, when I say right wing content is well crafted, I don't mean it is representative of reality. I mean it is accessible to large groups of people without much context needed. Your average leftist content maker, regardless of what faction of the "the Left" you like or dislike, is pretty explicitly labeled as leftist. By contrast, Jordan Peterson and Tim Pool are still pretending their views are too complicated and nuanced to be classified on a political spectrum even though anyone who looks at them critically can see they are just conservatives. Even Sargon of Akkad, who doesn't really deny being right wing now, prefers to talk more in abstracts than about the specific policies he wants to see.
It’s hitting me that because there’s so much pressure on men to be breadwinners, economic downturns might hit men particularly hard, at least emotionally (I suppose women tend to be worse off economically in the first place). But it must be especially hard to fight the feeling that losing a job or struggling financially is a personal failure, and I’m sure it’s just terrifying for a lot of men because you know you’ll be looked down on, and people may be less willing to help you or have compassion for you. That particular gendered pressure (coupled with the lack of social support men tend to have) on top of financial struggles must be a nightmare.
I really appreciate this video, that point about so many on the left being more concerned about “winning” men’s votes than actually helping them or getting to the bottom of their actual problems really resonated. I also think it’s a good practice to be willing to share good ideas even when they come from sources we generally disagree with. Had a similar thought to this point earlier today when I saw folks on tumblr talking about how to “make hate groups less appealing to men,” like, the way you get men to not wanna join hate groups is to get to the bottom of why they’re so damn angry in the first place. The hate groups are a scourge, but they’re also a symptom of a much larger problem, and the way to make things better is to fix the system. The problem is that men are miserable, because we’re all miserable - we’re isolated, polarized from our neighbors, just went through (sort of are going through) a pandemic, we’ve got terrible financial prospects, the planet’s being killed, and even the people in power who seem to care can’t manage to get enough done to save us. We’ve gotta stop obsessing over the fact that a lot of men like Andrew Tate and start seeing it as part of the bigger picture. We know why people are miserable and angry. Let’s talk about it.
How I rationlize it is like when women tell each other that “they’re all beautiful” like at a societal and personal level we don’t really need to do that, but we understand that society has placed alot of emphasis on beauty standards for women and if certain people can’t meet that standard it damages their self-esteem and mental health. For men that can’t meet the standard that society places on them there is really nothing put in place to tell them or even help them so they don’t fall into having low self-esteem or making sure their mental health doesn’t fail. Everybody says its the men’s own fault for getting themselves in this situation and they should essentially pull themselves up by the boot straps, the closest thing men got to getting positive affirmations for their problems was Andrew Tate but even he was just manipulating them for their own gain and told them the only way to pull themselves up by their bootstraps is to follow his teachings. Smh 🤦🏾♂️ its really a circular issue at this point
and I want to make this this flagrantly clear.
Feminism wants men to be breadwinners still.
When you have tons of homeless single mothers and kids, I think it's safe to say economic downturns hurt women too.
Pressure on men to be breadwinners is somewhat due to women, particularly ones who would divorce a man to make his life even worse off if he loses the job. E.I. father loses job -> he also loses the kids thanks to family courts being utterly corrupt.
Andrew Tate shows men a positive identity of a Playboy. A man who at least pleases women sexually. But when men can't have ANY positive identity, when men don't care at all anymore about doing good for the women then you'll be past the point of return. Men need a unique positive identity; not be blamed for participating in society! You can't get out of this problem by blaming men (which you specifically aren't doing).
And yea most homeless are men. Does not mean many single mothers aren't also homeless, it's just that men are more homeless
TH-cam got rid of dislikes and now toxic positivity for every fandom is the norm. There is much less discourse and disagreements are devalued. Young adults we got now grew up looking at the likes number as a way of estimating the value of the content, rather than contextualizing it against their actual thoughts and values. They are primed for being influenced as soon as the page loads.
A lot of people shit on Hasan but what he does well is walk into bro and toxic male spaces and can appeal to those young men that are looking for a positive role model to learn from
Hasan, while having quite some bad takes, especially on Ukraine, does do a good job of reaching to man and being like the stereotypical masculine dude.
People shit on Hasan a lot because he comes from a privileged family and they think that it somehow makes him a hypocrite to be leftist. At least he admits that he grew up privileged and he doesn't use his privilege for selfish reasons.
Also, Hasan is LOUD and even I get annoyed at that from time to time, but Hasan grew up in a Turkish family and that's just how they communicate lol
I feel like Destiny does it better, especially since he goes into spaces such as fresh n fit and the whatever podcast fighting against their talking points
@2crisp63 personally not too big on Destiny much anymore nor is he a leftist, but he did bring more from my centrist/moderate youth to the left.
@@Saturnia2014it's not becuase he is a leftist it's becuase he's a socialist that had all those things
i think a great strength that the left has always had over the right (although we surely could do much better still) is the culture of discussing and workshopping ways to "do things right". with emphasis on the communality and cooperative nature of that effort. because truly, we don't need our own versions of political influencers who just try and tell you their own way is the one true way to do things.
in other words: whenever i see leftist creators collabing with and platforming people with different experiences from theirs, admitting they were wrong about something, recommending publications on theory that they found eyeopening (without any financial incentive to promote them), and so on, i really believe that we are building something great together.
Maybe it's just because of the comparison but I feel like even the many videos which *are* trying to be helpful ultimately don't say very much that seems actionable. "We need to have a conversation" vs "Here is a 9-step plan to fix your life" is going to lose out a lot of the time, even if the latter is pure bs.
True.
This is a great argument, but it also reminds me how much I miss this kind of video. Most leftist videos these days seem to be either stream clips or elaborately produced quasi-documentaries. But this video shows the value of a well-made argument presented as simply and directly as possible.
Agree 100%. For some leftist content creators, it becomes quasi film craziness with faux-dramedy beats instead of a simple discussion.
Shaun and Contrapoints are some decent leftist channels with impressive like/dislike ratios
FD making MORE waves in the space. You know you're big when you become reference material. Lol. The APEX is when you wind up as hastily thrown together "internets" reference material for ANY terrestrial news publication. ROFL! Keep it going. I'm so glad this channel has grown so much! Thanks for posting.
Its a very well known fact that normal people who "identify" as Conservatives favor and vote for liberal policies. This includes polarizing topics like healthcare, abortion and education. Bernie Sanders was a prime example of this back when he was actively campaigning in southern states.
this is why he had to be stopped. he was a paradigm breaker, and those paradigms cost a lot of money and work to build. it's not fair to just break them. /s
@@RatPfink66 Yeah sadly that's exactly what happened...not even by the Republicans but rather the Democrats. We don't have a two party system anymore. It's just a variation of the same ideologies that don't include the public.
24:11-24:31 This right here is one of the biggest reasons I'm subscribed to you, F.D. It's amazing how many leftists online, including content creators, don't follow common sense ideas like the ones you lay out in the last 20 seconds. I also come for your keen insights on systemic issues, edgelords, and masculinity but your skills at basic reality checks are desperately needed for the online left right now.
Frankly, common sense has been coopted as an idea by conservatives, just like the ideas of the family and freedom. It has a thick layer of Dunning-Kruger-effect related bullshit shoveled over it, and I could almost understand if some lefties were loathe to get the stink on them.
It's not the left that has failed men, it's been hyper capitalism, which places a premium on consumerism, and an individualistic paradigm. This has contributed to the need to acquire things as status symbols in order to be seen as a viable mate. Hence the average man is invisible to the average woman where she is chasing the top 10% of men who have been able either through luck or finding a niche in the system to be visibly successful. With these factors in place some turn to illicit measures to get paid or they simply pack it in. Others like myself have found happiness overseas.
Women as a whole are not chasing the top 10% of men. Stop talking about women as if they can't do anything on their own and need a man
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexiteI did not say they NEED a man I said for the most part if you're not visibly successful as in your accomplishments aren't being posted on social media you are basically invisible. Read to understand instead of to respond. Do not be problematic and take everything personally.
@@MrKeepnit100you could argue however, socialism could lead to the same outcomes.
The issue to me isn’t that the left has failed men in not reaching out to them, more so we would be well served reaching out to this demographic to help guide them through whatever it is they’re going through.
It is men who are unwilling to give women a seat at the table of privilege (yes that sounds hella corny) that have failed in teaching young men how to navigate the world we live in.
If we write these young men off as people who need to work on themselves and be better rather than promote content creators who provide actual guidance as nauseum, it allows charlatans like Jordan Peterson, Andrew Tate etc. to fill the void.
In reality, like FD says in this video, this is a small sliver of people we are talking about, but they are still statistically significant and will likely form part of the loud ass minority of men.
I think it's a bit discourteous to say the average woman is pursuing the top 10% of men.
That's like saying average men are pursuing the top 10% of attractive women (which is true to an extent) but ignores that ultimately we all end up with people we value for more realistic and less superficial reasons.
The people that try to impress people with their materialism will attract materialistic people.
@@fongdimbulator it's absolutely discourteous and just absolutely bulshit. And you can really tell that this guy doesn't go outside because I work outside and I see all kinds of couples all the time and I'm definitely not seeing the top ten percent of people out in public. This is just such a ridiculous and absolutely false idea
And I mean when my husband and I first got together he was barely working and the month after we got married he lost his job. Neither of us are in the top ten percent of men and women and we have not always been financially ahead.
I partially agree with where FD is going but I feel this misses the larger point. It goes beyond just some online crisis. Countless men are feeling rudderless and lost when it comes to their place in society. A number of them look for someone to blame, which leads them to fall in with Manosphere bad actors like Andrew Tate. But many others who are trying to find their purpose are getting ignored or rejected when they ask for help. Even worse, if some men disagree with feminists (ie they disliked the Barbie movie because they found the story lacking not because of misogyny) they are disparaged and told to man up or labeled "incels." Men who are incels (not the violent sociopathic subset) deserve our sympathy instead of scorn. Yet I've seen a lack of empathy toward the overall problem. If men are required to be allies for women (as we should), true gender equality means being an ally is a two-way street.
agreed. He mentions "they believe it until they get the opportunity to get out" and I ask very loudly "WHEN IS THAT OPPORTUNITY".
People fall for these people and STAY with them because the opportunity to learn different isn't prevalent, consistent, nor overwhelmingly good.
and of course women should be allies towards men, but if we say this they all say (including male feminists) "women built their own, it's your own problem, deal with it". Yeah hun, you got the right to vote because of women making it legal... oh wait. Moves for equality require cross over, the fact the left refuses to reach over, and have all of these arguments about how "nuh uh not really!" is just shooting themselves in the foot.
the line at 19:00 is 100% bullshit. "either change yourself to conform to the community, or make your own so we can harass you" is more accurate. The ENTIRE problem is that men ARE making their own communities and they're getting toxic, invaded, etc.
@@jeffreychandler8418 The entire line "you have to change for us to see you as a human being" screams epitome of patriarchy.
@@samuelboczek1834 precisely. "no one owes you community" then whats the goddamn point of this entire left wing ideology????? if no one owes community then why are they owed healthcare? it's so flagrantly anti-progressive and it's astonishing that we allowed people to so firmly and loudly just lose all of their progressivism the SECOND we center conversations on men.
women have always been humiliated and made fun of for these things, why does everyone always have to be extra understanding and compassionate for males? They cause these issues for themselves and everyone else, and then act shocked when people are exhausted and don't feel like coddling them
That kinda sums up his takes on gender related issues to me. Outside of that one long video he made on masculinity it feels like he often simplifies things down to being "our fault" or tries to negate the validity of it due to other gender's struggles, or he blames said issues on capitalism which just shifts the goalposts away from offering a solution or true empathy. Generally, I'm about 65% with FD, but when he's talking about men I honestly don't expect insight as much as I do belittling at worst and misunderstanding at best
First of your videos I’ve ever seen. Watched 3 Shoeonhead videos today so that’s why the algorithm sent me here.
Even though I find her takes half assed and annoying. I’m glad my interest in her led me to you.
I’ll be watching more of your videos
If you didn't know him before, just know this is his 2nd channel!
@@EricChoiniere I’ll try to find the first channel then
"this may have been a little bit longer, but it was still light work." had me making a stank face at my desktop...amazing video and dope outro
Thank you FD - this might be one of the most important videos you've yet made, at least for me. The way you've summarised so much breadth and scope of this issue, and left pointers for deeper dives in several key directions, without pushing any angle hard - the light touch, humour and realism (as in, realistic, maybe even downplaying)... It's so accessible and enlightening. Super helpful for my own work with young people. Thank you again 🙏🏽
This was a whole sermon. Thank you so much for this.
Fantastic analysis. Always love your content.
I want to agree wholeheartedly with this video, but I can’t. The big issue I see everywhere including from many male leftists is simply not taking the issues boys and men face seriously. There is this overall sentiment in so many left wing circles that women’s issues are real and important and men’s just aren’t. Too many people look at the statistics of how young boys and men are struggling more than ever and simply say something along the lines of “patriarchy is ending and men are just failing to get with the program.” There is also a sentiment that since men are the oppressors, that women have no need or responsibility to care about any male issues. This is a complete misunderstanding of patriarchy and where we are today. Many women and even left wing men demand that men listen to women’s issues but when the shoe is on the other foot simply roll their eyes with a “cry me a river” attitude. The reality is the majority of men are victims in patriarchy(women have obviously had it worse, but this shouldn’t be a competition), patriarchy is upheld by both men and women, and men and women need each other to free society from patriarchy. Its not the fault of just the algorithms that the left wing content helping boys is not more popular. Too much of the left doesnt want to acknowledge these issues exist because it clashes with the narrative that only women have been victimized by patriarchy. when i have these conversations with leftists and bring up bell hook’s insights in “the will to change” (not a perfect book but great intro to these issues) the room usually goes silent because they didnt know feminism has so much to say about how men can suffer under patriarchy.
imo, a lot of feminist confused patriarchy with capitalism. feminists say that men suffer under patriarchy just as women do, but say men hold the power. firstly, if a system that is defined at men having the power over women but men also suffer under it doesn't really make sense. i find it that its more appropriate to say its a class issue when you get into the history and look into hierarchy, feudalism and slavery. yes women were oppressed, but men were oppressed as well on every level. when you consider that live expectancy was like 40 years, ofc gender roles played a part in ensuring humanity. even i understand why the boomers acted the way they did (doesn't mean i agree with it) when you consider that they faced 2 devastating wars, within 20 years, threat of nuclear fall out and the battle between comie vs capitalist. as i said before, i don't agree with the actions of the past but i atleast can understand why they went to the lengths they did to ensure society.
Shoe on head? More like nothing in head!
Ha! Got em!
Man, that part about never having as much reach as the people with controversial ideas - it hits home a little as someone aspiring to write video essays
Just grift to the right and make incel related video essays and you will do well
It's really simple. Make nice boy content? Nice people show up awww how sweet.
Make evil boy content? Evil people show up oh no, but so do nice people because they want to counter it. One tactic clearly gets more eyes...
And then the corpo algo can make or break you depending on its mood so none of what I said matters lol. Just cross your fingers I guess.
I think the main point everyone should remember is that men have always faced issues of some kind, and it’s almost always been on a class basis, and in the 2010s, it became almost a stereotype that men saw all the things of other people gaining visibility and rights, and men didn’t have an issue with it, but rhetoric began to shift towards blaming everyday men for the issues that were being solved. Seeing this, the right co opted them and began telling men that women and minorities and the “evil democrats” wanted to oppress them.
Men feeling left behind and under appreciated, is not the left’s fault, it is a narrative painted by the right to hold onto a voting base. Because if they can hang onto a voting base with just those useless words, they don’t have to do anything to solve men’s issues.
i love short concise videos like these, they’re responses to common criticisms people have, and i can send them to friends when i can’t explain a point as well as you can
thank you for poking this perspective about how men are a victim of patriarchy
It's worth noting that politics in the USA in general are more about identity than policy. Case in point, the people on the "right" who go around saying let's go Brandon even though Biden took most of Trumps significant policies and... actually scaled them up. Trade war? He just cut off China to the international production of high end semiconductors. Convince companies to rebuild in the USA? Well he passed bills that have caused the largest industrial investment in the USA since ww2 all with just offering a few grants and tax credits. The border? Well he's doing the same policies there. Socially he hasn't helped us in the LGBT community (just like Obama didn't btw. Obama's administration and the congress in those 8 years passed no laws to help us.) Nor has Biden done anything regarding reproductive rights.
Yet Trump supporters still hate him because it's not about policy. It's about identity.
Thank you! I never understood this argument that leftist creators just ignore men and things that harm them or that there is a lack of masculine male creators on the left. I've even heard it from left leaning male creators.
I think the problem is and I would almost put Joe Rogan as an example of this there’s the feeling for some men to want to find a guy with muscles and a tough guy image. When what your talking about is more intellectually or philosophical thinkers who don’t have that image.
@@c17sam90 yes I understand that some people define masculine specifically as meathead jock. My point is that's a very stupid metric to use to whine that the left isn't masculine or doesn't talk about male issues.
I suspect it's because, to the extent leftists tackle the subject, they don't do so in a way that's actionable or makes sense at street level.
Patriarchy and capitalism aren't responsible for swiping left on 80% of men. Women's preferences are robust cross- culturally (just ask David Buss).
You can't provide a vague blanket explanation that all your problems are caused by _x_ and expect it to make sense, particularly when there's nothing the listener can do about it. Red pill content, in among the women- bashing, does offer actionable advice, bad take or not. I didn't hear a thing on this video or any other leftist video that helps a boy figure out how to become a man that's worthy in the eyes of women. And "be a good person" doesn't count.
@@j.c.denton5193 it’s what I find the most interesting about Rogan’s appeal if you listen to him he kinda just agrees with the people he talks to and creates an echo chamber but because he’s a very savvy businessman he knows what his audience likes to hear. However what he says isn’t very deep or complex but if your not used to those sort of conversations I can understand why you would find it deep.
@@c17sam90 , my reply was more on OP's initial comment, but Rogan is an interesting phenomenon to discuss. I only occasionally listen to him, but I recognize he's popular not because he's a meat-head, but because he's authentic and he meets people where they are. He'll push back on people, but he won't do it in a shaming- tactic, name- calling way like I hear leftists do routinely (maybe the Right does it too, but I don't listen to them). I've never heard Rogan call someone a "trash human being". He engages with the ideas, tries to put out ideas specifically to be knocked down, doesn't try to reframe into something completely different, and doesn't let the idea and his feelings interact. For all the sophistication, approaches like Signified's doesn't hold a candle to that, to me.
I expect your humility, honesty and fairness in giving credit where it’s due will mean a lot to people. It means a lot to me. There’s amazing strength in a grown man choosing not to get defensive. If I were a man, I’d probably long to be secure and confident enough to be so humble.
i struggled with what i wanted to say here until i watched the latest beyonce video.
in it F.D. SIgnifer says "....and even the hand full of men who invaded that queer fem space hopefully your on your best behavior"
This sentence highlights for me a the way i see the left failing men particularly white men.
why cant i JOIN the beyonce fans
i just want to be part of a community that works towards and advocates toward a kind and Equal society. but the people who i think have the most to gain from that kindness and Equailty talk like they hate me even when i just want to help. i cant join a community i can only invade a space.
This is just plainly untrue. Most left wing spaces, especially in the Western world, be they trade unions or political parties, are overwhelmingly made up of white men, not women or LGBT people.
Very true, I feel like he emphasizes division, which imo, discourages communication & weakens the Left as a whole, rather than strengthening any one group…. Other than the Right, actually.
I certainly cannot speak for the entire site, just the portions I have visibility to, but I have noticed a very strong rejection on Tumblr of the sorts of mindsets you referenced with regard to 'Tumblr University'. Most especially, lots of recognition that the anti-men ideologies are A. being promoted by terfs, B. a gateway to terf ideologies, and C. not only not helpful, but extremely harmful to groups that are ostensibly allies. But, in a way, that kinda underscores your point, if unintentionally: it feels like the tone on Tumblr changed because the people you're referencing left Tumblr and set up shop on Twitter instead, because it started shifting almost immediately after the mass exodus, which allowed different voices to be amplified and win out. They may have 'graduated' Tumblr, but they and their mindsets not welcome there anymore, and the environment has begun healing now that they are gone, much like with that tribe of baboons when the most violent members all died of disease.
I may not agree with what you say at times but I atleast feel like you’re coming from a genuine place which is rare online these days. Keep up the good work brethren
S/O to all the men (like me) that were getting lost in the red pill sunken place but were lucky enough to find channels like FD, Foreign Man, Noah, etc. before it was too late.
@@appleswithpeanutbutter609 but who knows, maybe that's the key to engaging the normies. hit 'em with just enough enlightenment while still being, to some degree, unregenerate and prejudiced.
Another banger, brother. Your work and your words are greatly needed and appreciated. Thank you!!
Very off topic to the video but ever thought of sharing your thoughts on Noname? Namely her newest album and the politic she brings to her lyricism (and the Jay Electronica feature)
"for all the smoke I gave pop girlboss feminism" man you gave them absolutely no smoke. You gently critiqued them and gave them the maximum charity. It would be quite reasonable to ask that within the movement, and especially among public intellectuals, that the hatred of men be eliminated, or at least toned down. You can easily observe how the online feminist movement polices itself, rank and file constantly apologize for the movement's history, rank and file consistently gatekeep people who aren't socialist out or gatekeep those who don't agree with them on every facet of every women's or LGBT issue out, they are virtually in lockstep on every issue-of-the-day take, they learn the lines and the memes and the slogans and the apologia quickly - that is to say, the movement has a strong ability to internally message.
I like edgy jokes, and I don't want a world where a woman is condemned for every edgy joke she could try to make about men. What I'm more concerned about is the sincere, unchecked hatred that most online feminists harbor towards men. All of the tweets in the Shoe vid are coming from women who sincerely hate men, and who express that hatred in a way completely unchecked by the movement. Instead of using that obviously existent ability to affect the internal messaging feminists have to create a pivot away from hatefulness and vileness, dehumanization and disdain, the internal messaging is more focused on making sure every member knows the apologetics, and providing aid and cover for their hate.
I don't think it's a high bar or a big ask. Right wing men don't have to deal with this shit, they are in a movement full of women who seem to cherish them and their role. It's guys who are close enough to them ideologically that have to be around all this toxicity. For the most part it's us who get the exposure, we're the ones who have to sit in proximity to their toxicity. I've made up my mind about how I feel on it, and as someone who hates conservatives and should naturally be in a coalition with feminists, I have a new position going forward: any woman who is sincerely hateful to men is not my ally in any way, just some lady with her own problems that I just don't care about. And frankly, I'm fine to just let them get shit on by right wingers and lose their own battles if they must, because I don't want to run an ounce of interference for a movement that is just absolutely wild with vitriol.
True
that pfp took years off my life
@@DeoMachina thank god
This is basically a summary statement for exactly why the left has failed men.
Yeah, the right wants us in a rigid box that will crush us, but at least they don't actively despise our existence.
I understand why you have criticisms of Shoe0nHead and I agree. But I think left leaning creators like her can potentially act as a bridge for alt right dudes to move towards the left and maybe eventually to creators like you. I don't think anyone is going straight from Jordan Peterson to being a leftist, I think it's a gradual process
9:26 calling Kevin Samuels death a “fall” is top 10 FD jokes and he wasn’t even tryin 😂
This was so well said. Much about the discourse regarding the radicalization of young men has really bugged me for a long time. A lot of left leaning commentators including women talking about it as if young men need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Where have I heard that before?
@QuesadillaQuest808 Well, they kida did, but that is besides the point. Why are we all still fighting, no matter which direction you go you just hear people blaming another side for shit without recognising that no one single person is responsible for all of this. Yes, we are all collectively responsible for patriarchy, men and women, as there are a lot of women who do it today and there used to be even more women in the past, but somehow men get 99% of the hate.
Another point about that graph is that liberal parents are far more likely to leave their kids to figure out their own labels, whereas conservative parents tend to inculcate their kids into a conservative identity. So, the skew is more about parenting styles than legitimate political identities. The massive group of 'Don't knows' is probably more accurate. I would anticipate that the number saying they're conservative will remain relatively static in the following years for this cohort, and more and more of the 'Don't Knows' will veer leftwards.
bro, I've never seen or heard of you but this is one of the best videos I've ever watched. this guy is enormous brain
subbed obviously
I don't think the Women are always more Liberal thing is necessarily true. In the UK until around ten years ago most women voted Conservative.
This is such an awesome video and I wish I could just make all of my friends and family sit and watch it. I’m 26, so I was old enough to see the 08 crash and even though I was fortunate enough that it didn’t affect my family that bad, so many people around me felt it HARD. I remember my parents watching Fox News and the big topic was “all the work is being stolen by China!” It was always blamed on Dems (bc “it was all these environmental laws and regulations making companies not able to make money!”) and China, but I remember thinking “wait a second… if the companies here aren’t making money then why are they still so wealthy? Why are we blaming the government and other countries when the CEOs are the ones making the choice to lay off people in droves and participate in sweatshop labor?” And now as an adult I see it play out post C0v1d again. It’s because the gov, because people don’t want to work yada yada… meanwhile companies are making record profits…
I should probably clarify that this is towards the point you made about men no longer being able to be apart of the workforce that was once available until the neoliberal policies took place.
@@Bwahahahablastthat’s a really bad point because men aren’t having a hard time getting women because of money. That’s the key idea of the whole issue
let me guess...was the content creator he didn't want to mention Vaish?
You mean Vaush right
Wow.... just wow. Its 3am and im way too tired to actually articulate all the thoughts swimming through my head - but thankyou. You have given me ALOT to think about.
Probably doesnt matter much, but I have alot of respect for you as a person. Thankyou for actually taking the time to explain the real dynamics at play here, i had been blinded by what the internet has been feeding me.
Thankyou so much this has been one of the healthiest realisations iv had surrounding politic and my own views and feelings on it.
Question for all the males in the audience: how many of you feel you operate on a guilty until proven innocent narrative?
It's not ever-present, but I deal with it. I'm poor (look it), am 6' 7", and not white (mixed), it's mostly upper-middle class (usually white) people. Older people tend to give out smiles more often, though which is quite nice (regardless of race or class).
Like, all my life.
@@Pistolita221 Funny how we shit on older people but some of the best advice I've received was from friendly 70 and up olds.
@@samuelboczek1834it's like any other demographic, I generally mean the bad ones but caviating every demographic is too tedious and should be implied.
I'm probably gonna get hate for this, but I'll say my piece anyway. I am bi, hispanic, and a guy, and I feel like both the right and the left view me as this nebulous boogeyman for being what I am, someone dangerous and subhuman. Whether it's homophobes calling me an evil abomination for being bi, racists saying I'm less intelligent than a "mutt" for being hispanic, or people on the left saying I'm more dangerous than a bear for being a guy, all of it feels the same. All of it gives me this message that they all think the world would be a safer place if I wasn't a part of it, and it hurts to be told that. Now, I do support the left signifigantly more than the right, because the right hate me for signifigantly more of me than the left do, but I do wish things were better. I'm voting HarrisWalz, not because anything anyone in this comment section has said, but because I trust them more than most people in this comment section. At the end of the day, I'd rather be hated for only one attribute rather than 2 or 3 times that many attributes.
Last day to sign the stop cop city petition.
man i'm only at 4:15 in but when you pointed out that there was an "i don't know" option i just shook my head and thought man i love this guy for just dismantling the bullshit, thank you
When discussing how to help people, in this case men I think an important thing came up the accusation of the left "being too mean to men." Well, in this video you just used the term the patriarchy several times, yes you are being too mean to men. The boys and men who look up to the hustlers like Andrew Tate are young men who have literally nothing, what's so disgusting about those hustlers is that they don't feed on the top of society, they devour those who fell to the bottom. Then here "the left" walks up to these men at the literal bottom, utterly alone with no one and nothing and you say "the problem is the patriarchy" literally using language to imply that society was built and structured from the ground up to serve them and their needs. They, being a person at the literal bottom where only their own mother cares if they live or die hear you say "the problem is society is built around you and we need to stop that" and they just tune you out because the language you have chosen to use implies to them that you think that they should have less when they have nothing already.
Something the left needs to do if they genuinely want to help people is JUST THINK about how you talk to people. There's so much talk about "no no no no! The patriarchy hurts men too!" Stop, you already lost the argument. You said "the patriarchy" meaning a society built by and for men's benefit. You already told these men and boys who have nothing that you think society is built around them, for them and that you are for them having less by the term "the patriarchy." Come up with a better term because that one is going to lose you those men and boys every time. It's something you should work on too because a society that doesn't help those at the bottom is doomed to collapse.
Well said, I always hated the term feminist and used Egalitarian because targeting one gender even in the name is going to push boys and men away. I don't use boxes to identify my political leanings anymore but have always leaned left, hearing "leftists" respond with "but patriarchy tho" is very discouraging.
American obsession with political pendulum swings is crazy. Women already outearn men in major cities, women dominate colleges, women have the pick of the litter in dating. I love that women aren't discriminated against as much as if it were the 40s but we can't leave the boys behind. All the talk of free college, how about more accessible trade schools or putting workshop back in high school and treating those professions with the same level of respect as a data analyst?
I listen to this guy on occasion because I like my views challenged but true leftists really don't care that men are falling an endless cycle of loss powered by the Mattew Effect. Leftist men are like "I got a girl I don't know what's wrong with y'all" let them fall into MGTOW, Red Pill, Black Pill rabbit hole. People need community and gatekeeping like this dude does like "put in the work to get political beliefs that are exactly like mine or kick rocks" is so toxic. Yes, people should work to better themselves but having community helping you and encouraging you makes that journey 100x easier and locking it behind "think exactly like me or go join the right" is wild.
Right? I have ALWAYS hated that term. As a poor POC who grew up in a wealthy white city/town, hearing rich white girls excuse their economic advantage and claim the inverse was true cause "patriarchy" sent teenage me into fits of rage. Patriarchy as in the patriarch of the land makes sense, that's a class analysis. But the genetic essentialism that's crept in is absolutely disgusting. It's ALL about class, Oprah has more in common (in terms of policy interests) with the Murdoch family than any POC woman, they're media Moghuls, they want less regulation, less taxes and more access to the market. But a poor female rancher, and me (usually a warehouse or kitchen worker)? We've got a lot of policy interests in common. And they're important enough to me to set aside social differences (at least for now).
Your economic explanation for the causes of the crisis of masculinity was spot on and I don't think most rightwingers would disagree with it.
as someone whose entire job is making pretty tables out of raw data... he speaks the tru tru
When you describe what men want - economic stability, making enough to support a family and social standing, is 💯true as I reflect on what my husband tells me. And this is only going to get worse with Ai and automation. Men (and all genders) need to feel safe, stable l, a valuable contributor, and connection.
Gonna be one hunno: whatever justifications we might make for it, I really think that casual bashing of dominant groups by the left really, really drives away the normies. By all means talk about sexism and toxic masculinity and so on, but if I’m a more or less apolitical white male normie looking at the left and seeing a neverending torrent of “white people amirite lol” or “men suck lol” shit, it’s just gonna drive me to the right. Why would I want to be friends with people who are constantly mocking me all day long? The only position I can occupy in that space is basically being constantly apologetic for existing; it’s toxic. Get rid of that and you can still be a feminist/anti-racist ally without feeling under attack constantly (and thus more likely to be driven to the right).
I think its more that they can't honestly criticize everyone because they're constantly placating their core audience. "Men" are doing this, but then they mark behaviors that's happening in every demographic. When I hear from my friends, or when my women friends themselves engage in domestic violence, I ask, "did the patriarchy make them/you do that?" More leftists need to realize the limitations of qualitative data, and singling out individuals because of a statistic that they're only heard about is never going to earn you friends. Trying to guilt someone into doing what you want is only going to placate weakminded people who have no backbone, and the leftists who use that strategy are oldfashioned abusers.
The answer isn't to side with the other abusers, but to be better. Sometimes that means pulling back and criticizing 'both sides'.