Talking About White Rappers with FD Signifier
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- Watch F.D's video: • Eminem and the White R...
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Glad to see FD get a biracial rapper’s perspective on this!
Funny
You guys gotta get a new joke man
once in a blue moon somebody comments something actually funny under a fantano video
What race is fantano? He has the most uneven melanin distribution. His eyes are way too dark for his super pale skin tone. Unfortunately he has an Italian last name, which is a shame to us Italians. I hope his poor ancestors moved to the us many many generations ago, so his Italian heritage is lost
@@dtanoboI’m not here enough for it to get old to me. This is still fresh in my mind.
Anthony: can you explain what the white rapper paradox is
FD: It starts with-
Mike shinoda: One thing, I don't know why
It doesn't even matter how hard you try
Keep that in mind, I designed this rhyme@@RegisteredLate123
Mike is Asian.
Nice, I love Limp Bizkit
M Shinod is japanese
why is so funny to me that Signifier has this beatyuful mane and fantano is bald af, imagine if they fuse ala DBZ hha im so highsrry
best comment
LMFAO
Least insane stoner activities
i don't remember writing this, definetly smoking some good stuff i was, don't even remember listening to this podcast
@@Sodrigo_Rosa I envy you so bad, you have no idea
"Ya'll let jack harlow sell ya'll chicken" - Danny Brown
exactlyyyy sth for the win
Jack Harlow combo meal
Bruh that my fav bar whole album lmao
Oh cmon bro is actually from Kentucky tho lol
@@thewritermichaelis200Yeah that's part of why the bar's so clever - having Jack Harlow as your favorite current rapper is like having KFC as your favorite fried chicken joint
Fantano hearing FD make fun of Drake's girlfriend story and having Vietnam flashbacks to Drake's super fan talking for 20 minutes about how that's a genuinely serious issue that Drake needs to talk about on his album
shoutout to the person who had the idea to blur chat, ur a real one
Why did they blur it actually? Just that toxic?
@@cbfire9987 Most of the fantano fans are r3tarded and hate everything that's why
@@cbfire9987 average twitch chat imo, most of them are awful
@@cbfire9987 all chat should be permanently blurred forever
@@cbfire9987 They semi-consistently blur the chat just because it's not worth the effort to go through 2 hours of it to make sure nobody's saying some awful shit. I think they sometimes leave it in on shorter videos.
Its nice to see 2 black content creators finally put out some heat together.
The streets needed this. Fantano, you're saving the culture rn.
Why are Fantano fans so lame? Guy seems chill yet you lot are so corny.
@@NicholasSeamans damn seamans, with a name like that, I'm not surprised that you can't take a joke.
@@asmodeusguys4472😂😂😂
@@NicholasSeamanslmfaaaaaaooo bro being hella blunt
🌽🏀
I think factors that played into jack harlow's clout is the timing - him doing all the 'suss' jokes built a sense of comfort with queerer spaces, he had a run of being supportive of black women in interviews and at his shows while Meg was getting shot at and the Dababy was yelling about AIDs, and then that feature with LNX. I think beyond his whiteness he appeared as empathetic, chill and less problematic (a good 'example') and that perception itself blew him up way more than his talent warranted
This all seems eminently reasonable to me. With conversations like this I wish that Nielsen and Billboard data was much more publicly available so that we could know, for example, how many black queer people and black women really listen to Jack Harlow’s music. If a lot of black queer people and black women listen to him, then he’s much more like Drake than Eminem demographically, so the way his whiteness plays into his success is different and it calls for a different analysis. The paradox might be interesting for him because Jack Harlow wasn’t contributing to black culture, but instead bringing a very mildly more inclusive atmosphere to rap that portions of both black and white audiences are receptive to. So he both does and doesn’t contribute to black culture: doesn’t because he clearly is separate from the history, does because he’s challenging- even in an extremely milquetoast way - the bad exclusive parts of black culture.
I feel that yes he does appeal to many diverse groups. I don't like the word whiteness because its making every white person just this amorphous blob that exists to move forward as a all consuming musical theft corps like the guest thinks we are lol. There are so many different types of white people personalities, socioeconomic groups (there are more poor whites than poor blacks) and the richest of the rich. I think his music about his rough upbringing mixed with his catchy party hits both done with some care and lyrical flourish are what is so attractive to white audiences. But people like the guest think white people just magically unfairly get money for the color of their skin which is just BS.@@mandobrownie
@@Cinemagrins Its not bs lol. Js look at eminem or vanilla ice.
@@JGarcia-yr9fxbut that’s 2 out of a bunch of them. Like Em said himself, if it’s solely based on his skin tone how come other white rappers didn’t sell the same?
@@Dontdoit_ "Let's do the math -- if I was black, I would've sold half." ever hear of canibus?
As a white kid who grew up listening to and playing reggae, I rarely saw white reggae artists without it stirring up negative and critical feelings for me. In retrospect my feelings came down to authenticity not race. You can just feel it when someone's trying to be something they're not! I don't wanna hear a white band/singer covering Burning Spear's "slavery days" In contrast, when you hear someone like Gentleman (white German reggae artist) you can just feel that it's genuine.
Great art in any medium comes from the genuine passion to express truth through creation.
Foreign man has great video on cod reggae
@@johnindigo5477what is it
Every race has been in slavery before, black people just happen to be the most butthurt about it, lol.
unironically Snow is a more legitimate reggae artist than most gave him credit for at the time, and Jim Carrey should be ashamed of shitting on him on In Living Colour.
I mean the dude literally got the name from Jamaican immigrants and was serving a jail sentence while his song charted, the man grew up in the projects.
Also there are some pretty decent Polish reggae artists.
@@REDDAWNproject but he is white and that is the problem according to FD
I love that FD touched on "Blacker the Berry" in the "white Kendrick fan" piece of the discussion because that track, and the entirety of To Pimp a Butterfly has always been an important touchstone for me in this kind of conversation. I'm a white hip-hop fan and definitely a big fan of Kendrick. I remember first putting on "... Butterfly" when it dropped and being floored. Being genuinely pumped that it received the accolades it did. And also being very, VERY, acutely aware that this was an absolutely brilliant piece of music that was not "for me". I could absolutely engage with it as a fan of both hip-hop and music in general and love it for that. I could absolutely learn from the album and music. But when i listened, I knew full well that "I am not black, urban youth, and this album is not about 'my struggles' ". I love it even more for that, although admittedly I don't return to it with the frequency I might an album like... Aquemini. Or to a completely different vein: Atrocity Exhibition. "Exhibition", while still being distinctly "rap music" (and proving Danny Brown can somehow spit over literally anything somehow), tackled subject matter that I have been more "directly" connected to, but via the realm of more experimental hip-hop.
That was one of the first rap records I had heard in years that, without some of the dicier elements of Dead Prez maybe, clearly stated "if you're not "in the struggle", you will only be able to engage halfway", and that made it so much more interesting.
white people are the only ethnic group in recorded history to have a negative in-group bias.
Do you always bow down to segregationists?
@@angrybellsprout I literally can't imagine what this combination of words even means. Other than that it's really stupid.
@skippidypowpow8660 thanks for confirming how you bow down to segregationists
@@angrybellsprout🤡
people forget Eminem HATES being famous.
Do you see him at award shows? Do you see him on the red carpet? no
Someone once said "You think I give a damn about a Grammy? Half of you critics can't even stomach me, let alone stand me."
@@baronvonbeandip
He does love fame. He’s awkward and it’s not like that Beyoncé super stardom, but he wants to be seen as that rapper. He’s constantly doing things for his audience.
@@corydk4834 It kinda is like the beyonce super stardom though, EVERYONE in the US knows eminem.
Lil Mabu is also son to a billionaire record executive, the most clear industry plant ever
Everyone in music/entertainment is a nepo baby. It wasn't until the rise of the internet that some artist weren't nepo babies, but even then, you still need nepotism and connections to get anywhere.
Jason Derulo agrees
@@gilbertoflores7397Eh, this is only true to an extent, obv a ton of artists have always been nepo and that’s built into the music industry, but hiphop has always had stars who genuinely rise up from the bottom with no connections. It’s kind of the classic rapper story tbh. It’s also more common in that genre than others I feel
@@gilbertoflores7397 "everyone" is too wide of a generalization, especially since we're talking about hiphop. there are definitely industry plants in modern hiphop but the main topic of this exact video is how it came from struggle and a very specific black american experience. damn near all of the most iconic figures in hiphop had an authentic rise to fame
nepo baby isn't the same as an industry plant either. not sure what point you're trying to make
@@earl0000 hip hop has been curated the whole time, nwa and all those "rebel" groups were picked to be what they were. The labels had been pulling the strings most of the time. Industry plant was a nepo baby. Were just upset with them now because it's an age where you can get big all on your own with the internet. A plant is someone the Industry grooms and backs to get them famous, and tries to .ake it look like it was the rags to riches type story. Industry plant and nepo baby aren't different.
21:00 there's SO many white rappers who bring up that they're "greater than Eminem" or "the next Eminem" or "i never even listened to Eminem" and it's like... y'all are still stuck in the doorway to hip hop. there are so many albums not called The Marshal Mathers LP that you can listen to.
Does mmlp2 count? 🙏
So, I actually have an inside scoop on lil Mabu. He went to Collegiate, a private school in NYC that a close friend of mine also went to. It is an extremely exclusive, extremely rich school. The problems with lil Mabu are very very real- his father is some sort of marketing executive, and is said to have had a significant hand in Mabu's success. Additionally, in his rise to fame (?) lil Mabu has used and highlighted the divide between the privileged areas of New York and the less privileged areas of New York City, a very real problem and divide that Mabu plays for laughs. It's a very disturbing, clueless examination and exploitation of real cultural and social divides and barriers in our country, used by a privileged white guy to further his own fame.
Lil Mabu is not every white rapper and nor does he represent white rappers.
never said he was or did@@isaacjones5687
Bros “inside scoop” is common knowledge
This isn’t inside scoop, it’s public info. Literally googled it and it was highlighted with big letters.
***COLLEGIATE SCHOOL***
fair point lol@@JohnDoe-rr1fz
In my view, the future of hip hop is in non English markets with their own unique styles. Reggaeton continues to maintain popularity and influence other forms of Spanish language music, and hip hop remains at its peak in places like France with its own homegrown industry and culture.
Underrated comment.
As a hispanic guy, those of us that grew in the culture of Reggaeton from youth can clearly seeing it permeating mainstream music in English and Spanish both, feels good to walk in a club and see the influences of Reggaeton, Dancehall, Bachata, Afrobeats and more all enriching mainstream sound.
French rap SLAPS af to me haha, has been since I saw Taxi as a child
Honestly, I really like the potential of that. Mainstream American hiphop is hot ass right now, and I think the culture could really benefit from the influence of the interesting shit happening with hiphop around the world. It'd be sick for a foreign rapper to make it big in the US and have some more influence and respect in the genre.
So true. A lot of European countries have class acts rn. France, Germany, Ireland, even Nordic countries are doing well. I don't listen to modern US rap artists because what they rap about feels very surface level compared to 90s hip hop which is unmatched.
Super happy to see this chat happen. Been following fantano and fiq for awhile. His latest vid on em & white rappers was on-point, as is this discussion. Appreciate you two a whole lot. ✌
I enjoy FDs Signifiers takes a lot. He really sharpened my understanding of some things
I'm really glad I didn't post my comment half way through the video because you guys are making all the points that my former essay was making, which is essentially that hip hop is at it's hair metal phase.
and just like then, the UK is killing it while the US disappears up it's own ass again.
And then imagine if modern social media existed during rock's hair metal phase.
Would've been dope and fucked up@@lasagnahog7695
what do you mean by hair metal phase? I've never heard that saying before
@@sensitiffly That would include acts like motley crue, guns n roses, or Twisted Sister. (it's also called power metal). Hair Metal leaned into excessive and outrageous outfits, drugs, and partying rather than the music and it ushered in the age of alternative rock and grunge, which went against those aesthetics. I think hip hop in a similar place.
FD at 5:27 "It starts with..."
My brain "One thing, I don't know why, it doesn't even matter how hard you try..."
Funny he didn't even mention Shinoda in his video.
@@mindlander Shinoda is white-passing, so he is mentioned indirectly.
@@mindlanderShinoda falls in the rock/rap category.
Pendulum swang
folks bring up vanilla ice but ignore the beastie boys' impact
FD actually discusses them in his video on white rappers, albeit briefly and seemingly not buying into their first album being satirical. I agree that they're generally disregarded despite their impact.
The Beastie Boys are, by far, the toughest edge case to really engage with, because they honestly have very few problematic elements, came along early enough that their interest in the medium/culture was earned, because they got in before hip hop opened up enough to really be hit by the culture vultures, and they always just sort of did their own thing, effortlessly. The fact so much of their music goes into the alternative genre neatly somewhat insulates them as well, but those guys are generally just hard to deal with because they really buck almost every narrative one would usually try to apply.
@@aeschafer1 The thing is, like in the other video, Vanilla Ice really didnt do anything wrong. He was a genuine guy with a genuinely love of and involvement in hip hop culture. He was just a goober in his early 20s and sold out to Ninja Turtle movies. However, he kinda got hit from white media from the other side because they weren't really into hip hop yet (plenty were still in the "you can't spell crap without rap" thinking) so they brought up the sampling part and "stealing" a song when they know hip hop is built on samples. They made a gooberish dude make himself look foolish having to explain as obvious thing to new audiences. They used him to shit on hip hop without coming off as racist.
Awesome collab. A great person to bring on about this subject
Literally just watched the white rapper paradox video last night crazy good timing for this to come out.
literally?
SAME
Same! Incredible video, I’m excited to glean some more insight from this interview
Same here, home skillet.
i know it’s jack harlow on the right of the thumbnail but it looks like jschlatt and it’s funny to imagine it is based on his ai mf doom covers
Two queens coming together to maximise their joint slay
I have what I think is a pretty unique perspective on this. I am a 40 sometime black man who grew up in the 80s and 90s and I was heavily into both rap and hard rock and metal. I am a vocalist and guitarist and I started out early 90s in the hardcore punk scene in NYC. I was mainly a singer then. A few years into my teens and playing in bands I started rapping and making beats but it was initially separate from the the rock based projects. Around 93 or 94 we blended them but a song here or there I never intentionally tried to mix the two. But my experience has always kept me open minded about what an artist looks like or his background. No one in 1992 expects a teenage black kid to be singing Axl Rose or Layne Staley vocals but there I was. And I think it actually helped that I was black because it blew people away that I "sang like a white boy" and it was "authentic". So i can kinda understand how it works the other way around...if i was white i don't know if the attention would've been the same. I think being white in rap has pros and cons and I think we do judge a bit differently based on color and background. But a good rapper is a good rapper no matter what and I don't think I judge too much differently just because I can kinda see it from an outside and inside way lol
It's still wild to me that Stan became an identifier for people like why do you want to be called someone's Stan did you listen to that song?! Cause he's real clear on why that man was not a good man, and absolutely not someone from whom you should take inspiration. He was stalking Em! He was an abusive partner and ultimately killed both himself and her, while she was pregnant!
True....but it's also the element of being parasocial....that Stan character was very parasocial.. unfortunately alot of fans of music artist fall into that...let's be real being parasocial happens in all forms of entertainment.. content creators, actors, actress, especially with social media...Stan's are parasocial fans just hopefully they don't fall even farther down the hole and become homicidal or abusive towards these artist or others ...
Nothing wrong with admiring an artist.. just understand as the listener that they aren't literally speaking to u...they aren't ur friend....they just are expressing an experience u as the listener might relate too...but it doesn't mean you and the artist are actually friends...
Yeah, people use 'Stan' as a hyperbolic description of their admiration. It's not meant to be taken that literally.
Stan is usually used derogatorily, in my experience.
Gonna be honest.
Because I'm very dumb, I thought "Stan" was short of "stand" as in "I stand for/with" or something like that
I’m a Lifelong hip hop fan and older than both of you and as a woman I get Jack’s appeal. His core fanbase is female so I think beyond race he has a core fanbase that are the greatest consumers of pretty much everything in society so the consumer power is like that of Taylor Swift and Beyonce.
Eminem, or other White rappers haven’t had that. As an MC I think he’s not a lyrical miracle but above mid and industry wise he seems to be quite respected for his character which is refreshing. He is also tall, good looking, funny, charismatic, and you see him around his family a lot. He makes music with women in mind and is kind of emo so I think when it comes to him men don’t discuss the female element and just focus on race
Even his charismatic persona is a cosplay of black men though.
@@raymonds7492 harlow's sex appeal has more in common with justin beiber than any stereotypically masculine black rapper imo
This is a perspective I haven't really thought about. Good take.
Jack Harlow is just MGK 2. change my mind lol.
Same thing with MGK and G-Eazy -- their popularity comes from being hot and white
On the “piece of the pie” topic. Most people don’t really listen to that much variety of music at any given time, especially in the mainstream. So when you have certain people dominating the airwaves or the Spotify playlists, then they really are dominating the landscape of their respective genre for a sizeable portion of listeners.
I was just researching more about “what happened to rock,” which Fiq brings up about 1:18:00 or so. It’s shocking how many bands broke up in 2000-2001. The narrative that endures is that file sharing gets a lot of the blame, as does the rise of teen pop and nu metal. I’d say the amount of buyouts and record label mergers that swallowed up bands whole is overlooked, I believe.
yeah, honestly up until probably 2010 a decent number of the bigger names of that era would have had no problem touring, and selling merch if they had no interest or nothing to say so they weren't about to try and record a new ep or album. I get that. Composing, and song writing are skills that you cannot let sit they are nothing like riding a bike, but rather more akin to Newton's first law of motion "A body in motion, will stay in motion, a body at rest will stay at rest" itss 100% a skill that oxidizes over time due to lack of vigilance
@@donnydarko7624 I find its a lot like riding a bike and infact time away even of significant lengths can really ignite that creative spark like a full tank of gas in a new car. To each their own and how they choose to see things.
Maybe I perceive it that way because I played instruments in grade school and have forgotten most of the music theory I did know.@@joshviggiani9844
we as a society have decided to put on our blinders when it comes to hollywood and celebrity culture, which the rockstars absolutely inhabit. you do not get into these spaces by being a good person. you present a good person persona of course, but when it comes to how you must operate in the industry to get to the top, you are not going to get away from fucking over A LOT of folks to make it big. that's just the facts. it's why i was too disgusted to continue my audio engineer career with my extreme disability after the surgery only made me 75% better followed by 2 decades of malpractice instead of the help i needed. i just don't have the energy to hustle clients who don't stand a chance of actually making it.
literally day one in college audio engineering class was the lesson that the engineer is the first in line to get fucked over.
Really love the analogy of what rock went through and what hiphop is going through now. Read a biography of Jim Morrison (the doors) and as someone growing up in the 90s, not much of that was left by the time I heard it.
OnLy White pE0plE cAn d0 r0cK!!!
I'm glad my fav FD Signifier is amplifying small channels.
Love this video - two of my absolute favorite creators having an incredibly interesting discussion - but every time I look at the screen, Fantano's damn beanie makes me think he's wearing the Oliver Tree bowl cut.
fuck I can't unsee it now 💀
Cannot unsee
FD is the worst I actually have less respect for Anthony
@@daddykarlmarx6183? How is FD the worst
@@daddykarlmarx6183 ?
you know, given the discussion in the second half of this video about how the hiphop that addresses social issues doesnt get played as much anymore, it is really significant that Not Like Us dropped a few months later and became one of the biggest songs of the year in any genre, let alone in hiphop. a song with a history lesson about how people came to atlanta to exploit black people. obviously this one song doesnt undo the overarching trend, kendrick has always been a really interesting exception that proves the rule, but it does just feel really good to have a song that dense and poignant also bop as hard as it does and be as ubiquitous as it is. it doesnt fix the general trend, but it feels pretty good that it exists
Dope collab- was looking frwrd to the vid ended up watching this first. Didn't know y'all did some streams together. Any time I tap into an FD Signifier vidd it's always a stimulating listen! Dood alwys has some solid well rounded perspectives.
i agree, but artists like the roots and common rarely get accolades in the "culture" to begin with. the industry focuses on negativity and stereotypes, which is why songs like the roots' 'what they do' and common's 'i used to love h.e.r.' even exist in the first place.
I mean hip heads know about Common and the Roots...but true they both never popped off financial speaking
Example I thought of off what FD Signifier was saying about erasure of Black artists in an information-abundance landscape: The Weeknd is consistently the #1 artist on Spotify by a margin of over 10 million monthly listeners, but he's very small in the overall culture compared to Taylor Swift. Anyway great conversation guys
Well to be fair you can fuck to a Weeknd song, it’s multipurpose in that way.
I never could've seen this collab coming 🥴
But since I'm subscribed to both of you, I gotta say it's a welcome one
Melon seems to be the guy who keeps leaking into other realms of things I enjoy more than many others
Im stoked too. Ive been hoping for a long form collab since fantano made that lil cameo in fiq's essay a while ago.
He's been in some of fiq's videos before
Makes a lot of sense. 2 extremely leftist people who talk about music and political issues seems like an easy collab to me.
@@Mighty_Atheismo yea the canIbus one
Only objection is the person he referenced saying Eminem's politics are akin to Joe Rogan's politics. I'm not claiming that Eminem is the most politically literate rapper ever, but Joe Rogan would never produce anything half as self-aware as "White America". Rogan would just pretend he's being cancelled
Eminem may be aware but he's not "self-aware" and calling himself the god of a black art form.
He’s also pro gun control, ain’t no way joe rogan would want that
@@narrator6896 what rapper does not think they are the best?
@@vercingetorix5708 best is not the same as god
@@narrator6896Rap God was tongue in cheek, even he said so.
It's just your average braggadocious rap, 'Look how skillful I am'.
You're lookin' waaaay too deep into this.
I love your agreements and disagreement, finishing the video touching on misogyny was great. Looking forward to 2024 with you two!
great conversation ❤❤❤ as a gen z musician, i think fd is really accurate about what's next for black music and its interesting to think about in relation to late stage capitalism. The girls are making the soundtrack to the dystopia we observe around us. I think that's the sound in a nutshell. It can be uplifting or chaotic or dancey or chill but it's dissonant and hyper-charged. and in terms of black music all popular music is very black and brown because of the way that liberation movements have utilized art to communicate between marginalized people. I think we're gonna keep seeing a fusion of all the liberation sounds. thats what hip-hop even is. that's what jazz is, and that's what the next black music pandora's box will be.
Also I have an extensive playlist of this sound, 12 hours, it’s called pillow punk kingdom 💃🏿🔥✨
Wait that's not what I wanted to say though. I wanted to say, i think if we want our music cultures to stop dying, we've got to get serious about the ethics of our consumption. It's actually insane to think that a genre like hip hop only got 50 years of cultural cache. A big reason for that is how the gatekeepers of the industry have encouraged a consumerism that is only viable and sustainable for themselves, the billionaire black capitalist. They exploit their underlings to pump out unsustainable and unattainable for most images of wealth and grandeur, and they sever OUR musical traditions from OUR communities. Like regardless of how important some figures in hip hop are, they are no more important than the DJs, the dancers, the party goers, the people who buy and tell people about the records they like. The billionaires of hip hop don't want us to be empowered in our consumption, that's something we should do more actively. Like literally, why won't most ppl listen to their cousin's music on SoundCloud instead of the new drake song? Why do you need your music stamped and approved for your consumption?
This is a really insightful comment and I love your description of that music scene. It definitely made me want to check out your Playlist!
@@wizzytalksalot Jay Z is particularly obnoxious in that respect, I can't stand him frankly.
There is no " black and " brown " popular music. Just Fba black culture and that's it. Stop giving away free passes to everyone to our shit, it's tired.
Unexpected but super cool collab! Looking forward to watch
They've talked before, right?
@@ohno5559 it's entirely possible lol
Fantano was in FD's video about canibus
Amazing conversation, love when we can have these discussions about culture.
I’ve maintained this opinion since he blew up as someone who supported Harlow and his earlier output, he conveyed a much different image and style before he blew up versus what he puts out now. Not that he stylistically made a huge shift, but you can tell he’s searching for a different end product in his music now compared to tracks such as Sundown, Eastern Parkway or Dark Knight
He bit the cookie
@@cbfire9987he did indeed it’s really sad to see because there was a time where I was actively showing friends his music because he was putting out stuff with a lot more artistic effort and intention, and me and a lot of those same friends now have the conversation of wow this guy fucking sold out
This helped me understand FD's video much better, still don't agree with everything he says but it contextualised what he was going for more for me.
One of my new favorite bands is Filth, it's a marrying of mainly metal, with hip-hop. Lowkey want this to continue, but I also don't want hiphop to die or simmer down to almost nothing.
Filth are great! The frontman is super versatile!
I don't know if hiphop will ever "die", but the sound and community might go underground for a bit, meaning you'll have to pay attention to good new tracks. I used to think modern country was all crap and "bro" country until I was convinced I had to dig a little deeper and find the artists making music with heart and meaning. They were there, just not getting any radio play so I had to actively seek them. I could see rap/hiphop going a similar way for awhile, but seeing as tastes come a go and nostalgia is a helluva thing, chances are good even if it did simmer a bit it'd be due for a resurgence sooner or later, plus there's probably a lot of young upcoming artists growing up on rap/hiphop who might make a different sound but will still do funky hiphop infusions. Look at acts like Sublime that, through their short and cut off far too soon catalogue of songs and covers, hit so many different kinds of genres and sounds just by being unafraid to be experimental and funky and honest with an interesting sound over trying to be marketable, and then somehow they still became crazy marketable.
@@gregvs.theworld451I feel like it will end up like rock. Had a good 30 years of being culturally Dominate but at some point the best cash making music was made from an era before the current time. This results in radios playing the same thing in the 2010s like tgey do with the 70s and labels moving onto the next big thing.
Like Rock and Roll, hip hop lives on but in just smaller communities not getting mainstream attention other then a few standouts.
Hip- hop was multicultural from the jump. It’s an American art form. It’s always been predominately black and drew its influences mostly from black music. Vanilla ice was the first pop mainstream white rapper not the first white rapper. Hispanic people and white people have been in hip hop from the get go, rapping and producing. If you don’t want to hear it from a white lah like me there’s an interview with rza (I think on the breakfast club) where he addresses this. The funny thing is I think it was NWA and the gangster rap movement that created the shift to it as just a black thing. Which is sinister because that flip started selling black people these ideals to promote and seek to display negative stereotypes in there own community. We can really see how damaging this became now. Drill has lost all the observations and introspection old gangster rap used to have. No more Big L street struck. Now it sells to be a “demon”… the record labels hijacked black culture and are selling black Americans back a poisonous self image. IMO. Maybe I’m wrong. It’s not like I grew up in New York or anything in that time to truely understand the intricacies.
The best white rapper is arguably the most unnoticed and underrated. Aesop never gets brought up but he clears most MCs that have ever picked up a mic and he raps about his cat instead of pretending to be a badass.
Aesop hasn't made music as iconic as Ems first 3 album run. The dude could never escape the underground stigma. I also don't think he's more skilled than guys like RA the Rugged Man or Vinnie Paz.
@@STARK0181ra the rugged man is corny and vinnie paz/jedi mind tricks couldn't mature as artists and fell off quality wise in the 2010s
@@dominic7114 corny???
RA released All my heroes are dead . Which was one the best rap albums of 2020. It had ghostFace, Cool G rap, Brand Nubian, Ice T, Immortal technique,Chris Rivers and quite a few more legendary hip hop figures. Dude commands crazy respect and for good reason
RA has EVERYTHING skill wise Flows, Cadences, Rhyme Schemes, Charisma and Id bet would he'd best Aesop Bar for Bar. Like I said Aesop could never evolve past the underground/ back pack stigma either.
one of my favorite parts of FD's content is how he often tries to give his comment section over to Black/POC folks for their experiences but no matter HOW WELL he defends his reasoning for it there is always at least one person in the comments going "I'm white and x." it's genuinely insane how white people HAVE to see themselves involved in everything, including stuff that explicitly doesn't involve them
you mean you're mad that people are leaving comments in the comment section? lmao OK dude
I'm not really a hip hop listener, but I really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you guys!
The world is healing a bit guys. Thank you for putting out this collaboration. ♡
I’m grateful I found the blog/nerdcore rap scene to be more relatable to me than Eminem. Lupe Fiasco is my king at the end of the day.
I thought you were gonna name some cringelord like chris webby
Mega ran?
@@vitaminwater9662 boo ba
@@8BitsOfFun1323the true goat of nerdcore
Lupe is a lot of peoples king from all walks of life. I don't really listen to him much anymore bc sonically it doesn't really hold up, but lyrically he was and still is head & shoulders over basically anybody
This was a good convo, I really liked the expansion on FD's video (which i thought was awesome). I wish Anthony had interrupted him less though
the way anthony describes lil mabu so perfectly describes the dissonance between the fantasies of sheltered kids vs reality
also describes yeat -- hes like if holden caufield was a rapper
@@iLikeToShankI’ve read catcher in the rye and I don’t really know what you mean by that comparison. Nevertheless, I stand by it.
@@bestwesternerdamn i was just thinking about catcher in the rye earlier
@@bestwesterner the opps yeat raps about are just the phonies holden caufield complains about; they dont really exist as problems outside of his mind
@@iLikeToShanki dont get how yeat compares to holden caulfield can you enlightenment me
I genuinely got a lot out of this video and I really appreciate this topic and having so much to think about walking away from this.
That being said, hearing Anthony compare GKMC to The Lion King gave me whiplash, two pieces of art I never thought would be in the same sentence together
Not really Kendrick was on the lion king album
good lion mad jungle
Hell yeah, I so remember "Self Destruction". That song was huge when I was a kid. All the popular rappers of the time was on it, it really was like the hip-hop "We Are The World". It's also the last time I can remember a positive movement like that in Black music that involved all of the popular rappers of the time.
That whole period led to the decline in crime in the late 80s/early 90s. If you were just walking around in the city, you could feel it. I remember talking to my father who worked at a men's shelter, and he had noticed the same thing: the crack wars were winding down because the communities involved were making a concerted effort to put a stop to them.
I talk to other white people now, and they think I'm joking, while they're busy arguing whether it was Giuliani or Clinton smh.
We're all in the same gang was essentially the West Coast version of Self Destruction.
@@theleelife313 Yeah. I was a teenager in Brooklyn so that was my perspective. "Truce" was a big word on both coasts.
@@jessejordache1869😊
No matter how FD tries to argue this, it's gatekeeping. Musicianship doesn't require passing a TH-camr's sociology test. Jazzheads pull the same shenanigans, which pushes away new and curious fans.
Exactly. At the end of the day it’s simply gatekeepers being gatekeepers.
As a metalhead, that was my immediate consensus of the video. Gatekeeping worse than elitist metalheads that prefer to listen to gargling noises and static.
Yup, it's gatekeepin' and it's gatekeepin' based on race.
Metalheads of more extreme genres were always shitted on when they had some racially weird takes about who gets to do music in the scene.
1:08:39 FD killed me with this Donald Glover/Fred Hampton line as he compares to Drake. I literally spit out my water lol great interview
Great discussion, but “Eminem’s politics are probably like Joe Rogan’s” is insane
I could see that, except when it comes to majorly divisive subjects. Eminem is probably dumber, but fundamentally they both seem pretty open and liberal. What the fuck do I know though.
I'd like to see another video discussing your perspectives on white producers in hip hop. Is it any different from the rappers? I feel like that's a whole other conversation
It’s half the same and half different. Because the thing about the rapper is they bring with them their stories and an image, and let’s be real, white people see that and go “hey I relate to that”. All the producer really brings is the sound, and a white “sound” is not the same level of marketability as a white lyrics and a white face (unless you are metro boomin)
White producers might have setbacks and privileges getting into the industry, not having to worry about their image (being hood or being a lyrical myrical backpacker cliche)
Great question
Lofi Hip Hop should be brought to the forefront in this conversation because it’s one of those subgenres that has some bad players in it, despite me loving it and also partaking in it. I think the main focus should be on the gentrification of hip hop music and production… (mostly) white kids taking a sound that has been well-established and rebranding it as something new and fresh… While at the same time dumbing it down to just background/study music and completely misappropriating the term “lofi.”
I think it's different but connected. The biggest problems of White Rappers FD discussed come about with the commodification of their art and when the money rolls in; Producers generally ARE the money, the first step into that commodification, and therefore the harbinger of those biggest problems. Not to say they don't bring a lot of good; without producers, there would be no industry. But the discussion is definitely very different between rappers and producers.
The artist and their moneyman are different but intertwined individuals; so the producer needs to be analyzed way differently.
Word. Segregation at the studio is in the building frfr!
I'm currently learning about how the record industry helped bolster segregation by genre defining and sometimes genre flipping Blues and Country. I realized that I am putting my toe into being that person who has put the time and energy to learn about that subject matter.
As a white kid in a almost entirely white high school I did do the work to learn everything I could about Hip-Hop, but it took many more years to really be aware that I was living and seeing a different cultural reality than others experience. To clarify doing the work I learned about the founders, the elements, and was listening to some of the solid golden age records.
As a 16 or 17 year old I even voiced the differences I perceived in lived reality, but I know I did not "get it" until much later.
Oh my god I'm so glad to hear someone way more knowledgeable from the community say it! The Roots being a house band for Jimmy Fallon of all people, like it just felt like such a defanging to me, even as someone who was only, at the time, kinda familiar with the Roots and their position
"Compared to Drake, Donald Glover is Fred Hampton"
Two of my favorite TH-camrs in the music scene, working together, and it's exactly how I hoped it would be vibe-wise. Loved this, definitely a dream collab come true for me personally, and I hope to see these two work together more in the future!
😂😂😂😂😂
looooool you watch fd signifier🤣 im sorry
@@3br1ce7 Yeah, I disagree with him a lot but he seems genuine and real. And truly passionate about the music he covers in his videos. That's all I ask for really.
@@KC7Tumblr you should hear fd talk about or to a black person that disagrees w him
@@3br1ce7 sounds interesting. I'll look into that, thanks.
Jack Harlow's popularity is not just about him being white though. I think it has more to do with his personality. He has the "fame package." He's very likeable and marketable. There are plenty of white rappers who never become noticed throughout their entire careers.
U don’t understand the white rapper paradox at all
@@CrushWildmanhe’s white. They never understand
It's specifically because he white
@@CrushWildman One can understand and still disagree.
@@dillonblair6491no, it isn’t. FD is one of the worst race baiters on TH-cam.
man fd is so smart im so glad you had him on after his video
I liked his video a lot, but his comment about Europeans/White people having no culture and using hip hop to fill the void is nuts. Sports, movies, comics, amazing food etc. all have major roots in various parts of culture stemming from different regions of Europe. He even made the comment about Germans having done nothing in terms of art/food when everyone across the US where that man lives consumes burgers and beer on the regular as a quick, single example.
The dude just wants to gatekeep his little place in the music world
it's racism, and its wrong. We were taught to not judge people by the color of their skin in 1st grade, somewhere along the line that went out the window though.
Inferiority complex makes people bitter and angry indeed
@@nomorenames5568bro in all seriousness you need to learn the difference between racism and prejudice. That may be an example of prejudice , but you're going to be vulnerable to some pretty horrific manipulation if you accept that it's possible to be racist to a white person in the USA.
Absolutely wild/borderline racist take from FD. I'm American with mostly Irish background. My mother played traditional Irish/gaelic music from time to time and we had Celtic/gaelic symbols all over the house. To lump all European white people together and claim collectively have no culture is just plain wrong.
This was so good! I hope you guys collaborate more.
As a country/folk artist, the part where they talk about the state of that scene hits hard. Like, we really have to do better...
Yeah it's so bad. There are some people trying to make something different but they seem totally boxed out of mainstream success. Ever since the Dixie chicks got cancelled
It's the fault of the industry almost 100% tho. It sucks but capitalism loves to water down stuff till it's a soulless parody of itself, and that was before the Internet only made that problem worse, at least in regards to the charts
@@sainthuckelberry totally agree. There's a great independent scene but even then, as Anthony says, there's not a lot Woody Guthries out there. The music has become almost entirely divorced from talking about real, current experiences with anything resembling a critical lens.
There is a killer podcast that sort of gets into why called cocaine and rhinestones. @@derekalexandersmith
I think the last really interesting country artist I’ve listened too was Ryan Bingham. I’m sure there are some other awesome people out there but it’s sad cause country can be so fucking cool when people are just talking about break ups, beer, and pick up trucks.
People can sleep on Cole... But don't wake him up...
"drake's 21 year old girlfriend, I'm gonna make her younger every time" FORESHADOWING LOL
34:29 I think Eminem went through both.
He started off humble, he had fun with fame, but never embraced it and would rather name drop or spend time putting focus on the artist he was with. He wasn't radio friendly (he rebelled from it) and stayed true to himself, even mentioned his responsibility and impact because he's white, and he didn't care about mics/awards/critics he cared about the respect from his peers.
He even lived a pretty challenging life and has some respect in that regard too.
Then I think the drugs happened, then he snapped out and recovers, drops a few albums (that did decent) trying to get back on his feet (also get a feel for where he stands), gets a good response, then somewhere something got to him around Rap God MMLP2... He thinks he can recapture the crown and is surprised to find people have, not only moved on, but others have started getting better...now he has to show out and make sure that he's still known for the legacy he held (even though it was never questioned because we all heard him, his true fans understood, and even hiphop heads gave him his due respects), and these new fans just amp him up to be something he's not (because rap is even more commercial now, so they really lack even more understanding than the previous fans of hiphop/rap, some are even em fans that got turned onto hip-hop, because of him), so now he's on some sort of mission to re-prove himself, not realizing he became everything he resented... listen to his last good album, Til I Collapse, if that isn't em describing himself (currently)... I don't know what is.... He literally describes what he doesn't want to be and what he thinks of his position in rap (wasn't calling himself a God, he put himself last on his list), then goes on to talk about the disgust he has for the fans/people that don't get it (and why he's last on the list), but that he just cares about the respect and acknowledgment he's gotten from them (more than his awards and fame), especially when they also deserve it. He also speaks about what it would take for him to feel he's not worthy...and if that description isn't him today...then again...I don't know what is..
People like Snoop saying he wasn't even in the top 10 rappers I think it drove him insane to prove that he was in the top ten so he tried too hard to make the most spectacular bars ever but it took away from the rawness of his music and made it overwrought and cheesy. I still think some of Ems greatest bars ever were after he turned 50 and I appreciate stuff like Godzilla.
@@Cinemagrins well I do think snoop has a little resentment because he was Dre's big protege, the came Pac and Snoop got lazy (also had some resentment for Pac), then came Em... Snoop never upped his game and he can make hits and excuses, but he never really evolved or did anything that spectacular past his prime (which was short lived because of Pac coming in).
Snoop is more of a personality now than anything.
Em only took slight and took that hard because (as far as he was concerned) he and Snoop were on the same side, and (even if Snoop didn't feel Em's music, which is a lie to some degree) he didn't have to say it with the disrespect he put on it (plus he was still throwing shade on Em for a while before that, ex: his interview with sno the product).
So I can see Em being a little miffed by that...
He indeed tried too hard, which was apart of his list in Til I Collapse (he cares too much about the wrong things now), he even went pop (did a basically a pink song featuring him....on his own album).
The only thing he's improved on is rhyming... Making songs, beat selection (which was never the best without Dre), content, flow, hip-hop, and respect all went out the window....
Relapse was the last good album
Eminem fans will bump The Eminem Show then turn around and say he wasn't making songs for the radio and he wasn't ultra ultra mainstream. Which he was.
@@Tirgo69 ehhh ..not really, he made one or two for commercial use (which still was usually heavily censored) and then the rest of his album wasn't usually that popy..... The Eminem show was a bit more commercial than the two prior...
But absolutely not, half of his songs are him talking about how hard it is to get a song to even be accepted to put on an album and how much they make him rewrite shit to make it more commercial, because he hit a level of popularity he didn't want wasn't his fault.
Encore (and every album since) those were all made for radio/mainstream appeal...which is why there is a drastic difference in his music from that point on
Eminem is a die hard democrat what you mean his politics are like joe rogan
I'm not a music nerd, but when two analytical, intelligent, conversationalists get together I'm here for it.
The GKMC->Lion King analogy is so perfect
The hopeful note at the end about what the youth can create and possibly do better got me. That cheered me up.
On gatekeepers and algorithms, I’m not convinced that DIY artists make it to the top on their own. That is, largely, a selling point of a new artist on the scene. I think record labels boost those artists to achieve a high level of visibility and success behind the scenes.
bro really compared cheef kief to kendrick lamar 🤦🏽♂️🫠
MELON AND FIQ?! THE STARS HAVE ALIGNED!
The point about black artists being called “white” artists is so true. Kendrick even gets called a “white” rapper.
I’m not saying he is but have you been to a Kendrick concert?🤣
I remember when I was in high school in the late '90s, before I actually got into hip hop, I pretty much exclusively listened to the local alternative rock radio station. That station, despite sticking to an alternative rock format, also played two hip hop artists. Guess who? Eminem and the Beastie Boys. I really discovered and got into hip hop in about 2001 and have been doing my best to deep dive into the genre ever since and from that perspective I have a great deal of respect for both Eminem and the Beastie Boys, but there's a very obvious reason that those two artists were deemed acceptable for an alt-rock radio station, and none of their influences or contemporaries were.
Wishing you all the best. Keep working hard as always.
BTW Metallica lost to Jethro Tull in the first ever Hard Rock Metal category 1989, just saying in regards to Macklemore 2014 Grammy. Conversely the Best Rap album category has been around since 1996.
I saw this collab coming. Much needed.
One weirdly anecdotal but still very accurate way to put it is that there are countless people who’s favorite rappers are all white and those rappers would be like Eminem, mgk, post Malone, NF even. But there are definitely fewer if any people who enjoy EL P, Aesop rock etc that don’t also enjoy black rappers
Thank you FD for a big takeaway and easy point to make. If you're making money off the hood and you don't share the struggle with the people in it, then you better be donating your money to help those you are benefiting from.
The way I was thinking this collab would be a cool idea and now here it is
Fantano adds nothing to this
I also think something FD might be overlooking or not taking into account is that hip hop isn't the same as back in the day is because the culture and struggle has changed. That some (not all) struggles that much of the early rap derived from has expanded beyond race to a more economical struggle? That's why some of these white rappers are "believable" in what they are saying because it's real and similar to the struggle of rappers in the past?
so grateful to see FD on this channel, but can I just point out how great Melon’s hoodie is today? like goddamn, Anthony, send me a link where I can buy it.
Second this. It’s Teddy Fresh but the specific hoodie idk.
I knew I wasnt alone!
I’m gonna be real that’s one of the ugliest things I’ve seen in a minute. To each their own tho
man i’m glad im older. stuff like this that used to matter to me just doesn’t anymore. i throw on whatever music i want, mostly jazz stuff, and just listen. that’s it. no worrying about the validity of this or that perspective, or who’s cool, or whatever. it’s just whatever i’m feeling right then. got way too much other serious stuff to worry about. not knocking these guys for conversing about it tho.
I just saw his vid essay 2 days ago. He really glossed over how big, important and creative Beastie Boys were in the 80’s and 90’s. They were set up for failure by Russell Simmons and Rick Rubin who used them as a cash grab, stole millions from them and how they transcended all that and created a huge lane for themselves within multiple cultural groupings.
I watch his shit because it's an interesting position but at the same time he clearly lacks a great deal of care for things he doesn't enjoy such as Eminem having one good album, the Beastie Boys ONLY breaking through due to race and sort of ignoring the transition of rap from a unique genre to what functionally amounts to two separate genres pop rap and rap that is authentic to the roots of the culture.
they're Jewish?
@@darklightprojector2688black ppl should look up to jews how they leveled their ppl up so much that now mfs makin conspiracy theories on em 😂😂
@@darklightprojector2688 Yes
@@darklightprojector2688Oh that's why FD doesn't like them!
Biggest crossover event of 2023
maybe im missing something but i would not think of Eminem's politics as similar to joe rogan at all lmao
@@ASSEMBLOTRON I couldn't take the video seriously after that
not even close lmfao. FD signifier is a fucking idiot at times
This the type of comment is why I love fantano videos, outside of his review etc.
Eminem’s openly dissed trump & his followers, and has talked about how flustered and furious he gets when talking about him. He’s definitely not the same as Joe Rogan politically 😅
Video of still excellent but yes that point was off a bit, however I can see why it would be assumed.
1:21:14 “…and it’s because…” [leans in during the dramatic pause expecting some serious truth bomb shit]
“…you SUCK!”
Lmfao better than I ever could’ve asked for.
See Eminem, see Vanilla Ice, see The Beastie Boys, see AWB, see Teena Marie, see the Bee Gees, see The Beatles / Rolling Stones, see Pat Boone, see Hank Williams Sr., see The Original Dixieland Jazz Band, etc.. Black Musical Art has influenced and informed every era in this country's existence. No wonder when a White artist learns the "Sweet Science" proficiently enough to present to the masses his / her celebration is mammoth... especially when connecting historical nuance.
fd is such an awesome content creator. glad to see other youtubers showing him to people who may not have known about him otherwise
Oh hell yeah it’s one of my favorite collabs back at it
Pizza hut Hitler interviews a significant leftist bread tuber.. amazing Mr. Melon, simply amazing.
This combo, this collab ! 😍👏👏👏 love to see it!
Love that FD couldn't tell Yeat, Gunna, and Lil Baby apart.
This is more like 2 parallel monologues than a dialogue. They both got too wrapped up in word salad to actually talk about what they were supposed to talk about.
Especially FD, dear God
You've just described every modern leftist discussion. Now imagine debating someone who speaks like this.
@@justinatest9456 I'm probably further left than both of them, at least regarding economic issues. Doesn't mean I over-complicate my arguments with word salad and obscurantism.
So whats deal with "rap for white people"?
Like just trying to talk to black coworkers (all of which are within 5 years of me) have no crossover with the stuff I like. Ask em about Outkast, Lupe Fiasco, EARTHGANG, Spillage Village, Anime, hell even J. Cole and Kendrick Lamar and just blank stares or "so what made you like hiphop?" like rap has been some niche genre of music its entire existence or something.
This is kinda hard for me to believe, maybe EARTHGANG and Spillage Village but Kendrick, Cole and Outkast all have a huge black audience. If the guys you’re talking to don’t know shit abt them they might just be young dudes who are only into very commercial, mainstream stuff that leans ignorant or at the very least not very deep like Future, Lil Baby, Travis Scott, etc. But Kendrick is definitely not rap for white people, I just saw a video come up on my for you page on TikTok the other day of a block party in LA where they’re bumping “Not Like Us” and the crowd is all black 20 somethings. “Alright” was also a huge protest anthem during the BLM protests