As a diehard F1 fan I must say... this is the best argument Iv seem to date that would convert me to Indycar. I’m gonna have to check it out in this case!
Louis Cypher sounds like you are think of Ricciardo’s Red Bull last year. When did the Mercs really break down? I mean they won the drivers and constructors championship...
Louis Cypher mercedes would break down like usual??? Dafuck 🤦🏻♂️ they only had one issue in Austria, so breaking down once out of 21 races means they usually breakdown? People just love to talk shit
I love both F1 &IndyCar. F1 speeds are just monstrous, they are pulling 6.5 Gs with today’s modern cars. IndyCar has its own unique speed that you have to really wrestle around the track and the oval speeds are just crazy. I’d say both series have cars that look amazing too. I am just happy as a fan of Motorsports that we have IndyCar, F1, and LMP1.
Nitrous F1 Yeah and with both Porsche and Audi leaving it’s really to bad. The cars look so cool and their design is what allows them be to so quick. Hypercars will have to do a lot of modifications to get the downforce and overall performance capabilities that LMP1 cars have at the moment.
Its a tad annoying that people go on and on about how much F1 teams spend and how the gap should've been bigger for such a budget. People need to familiarize themselves with the concept of "diminishing returns" at the top end of motorsport. Its not like the FIA simply said "Here's $400m. Go and make the fastest car possible by any means necessary." There are strict rules and regulations implanted by the FIA so that teams don't go crazy with their cars. Most of a team's budget is spent on the best personnel and equipment available in order to come up with new innovative design choices that, while improving performance of an already incredibly fast car, still complies with those strict regulations.
David Land it’s very weird to hear an American saying Renault because I’m used to hearing a British person saying that and when they say it sounds much better. Just something I noticed
@@johncarl5505 long beach lap record is from 2017 and 2018 was only 3/10ths slower . Its about 2 seconds faster than the 2000 pole and those 2000 900hp cart cars were monsters. so the current cars are quick , but their lack of HP hurts on the speedways.
The Porsche 919 evo (basically an LMP1 car with the limits of reglementation away) even beat several lap records set by F1 cars. And that thing is built to do that stuff for 24 hours... LMP1 cars are just insane machines. Just search for 919 evo vs f1 on youtube to find that video.
Dukhanstmichmal 919 Evo isn’t actually fitted to run those 24 hour events, but I would not at all be surprised if it could pull it off anyway haha. Fucking Porsche engineers are crazy man
Love both F1 and Indycar. F1 has the speed, but indycar has the action. Love watching how twitchy the indycar gets through turns and how on edge it is, but also enjoy watching the f1 cars and how quick they can brake and accelerate. Two completely different series that I enjoy for different reasons
I’m from Indy & while I’m not old enough to have actually attended, it’s worth noting that Indy 500 used to be an FIA-sanctioned race. The worldwide playing field used to be that open. Sure, the tech in F1 is equal parts awesome & outrageous... it really is. But the lack of wheel-to-wheel action - at speed - leaves me with a single-file line of a procession, er I mean race. To see if P1 has a tech issue & retires isn’t racing. Imo.
In all honesty no one should expect that indycars are anywhere near as fast due to budget differences and rule differences, but that doesn't mean Indy car is necessarily worse as a series. Both are great series worthy of people's respect and the drivers of both are incredibly skilled and some of the best at what they do. The only thing that I don't like about F1 is that they basically false advertise it. They make it seem like it's a driver's series when in reality it isn't a driver's series at all. it's an engineer's series. I respect and love both sports but Indycar is my personal favortie as it's significantly more entertaining on TV than F1. F1 is insane in person but on TV it is generally a snooze fest. Like Spa in person was amazing when I went. Seeing the cars fly up Eau Rouge-Raidillon was insane, but watching Spa on TV is relatively boring. F1 is like NASCAR. You have to be there at the race to actually see whats so enjoyable about it. The TV doesn't do it justice at all. Indycar on the other hand is really good on TV and even better in person. Thankfully they're increasing the horsepower in 2021. Hopefully the improve the underwing as well to improve the cornering speed while still allowing for close racing.
Your opinion. I think F1 is the better package. And what is more entertaining is subjective. Lately there are many spec. car racings that i would put ahead of Indycar.
I m watching Indycar in COTA and you can see the difference compared to the F1 race at the same circuit. The amount of spectators , the buzz at Indycar race day is like the feeling on F1 2nd training day.
Excuse me but the Indy authorities and the fans have always bragged and claimed superiority… in a miserable cowardly way. Since the 1990’s of Senna, Mansell and Prost… and the difference in technology was too much to make a comparison
@@RebeccaCampbell1969 F1 and Indycar (CART) tech wasnt actually that different before the split. There were differences in the tech but each were state of the art racecars. The main difference was the fact that Indycars had significantly heavier sidepods and such. Also F1 fans have always been incredibly pretentious about F1 and how its "better than Indycar" while all Indycar fans have always said is that "We have better racing" which when it comes to the fan perspective Indycar did and still does have better racing in terms of More wheel to wheel action, more battles, multiple drivers fighting for the championship, etc. But that's just because F1 is a different kind of motorsport. Its for engineers and manufacturers, not drivers. The only driver aspect was that they were considered daredevils due to the risk but that aspect has been pretty much completely eliminated. CART wasnt even a spec series. The only reason it is now is because of the split destroying the popularity and budgets. The IRL was a joke and CART/Champ Car lost their biggest race, The Indy 500. Heres the thing. Technology and lap times doesnt equate to good racing or a good product for fans. Everyone wants big roaring V10s but thats not high tech or efficient. TT V6s are. Fans and Drivers want skill based racing thats close/competative. To do that you need less sophisticated aero and a more balanced field. Why any driver would want to race in F1 anymore is beyond me. What's the point in joining a series just to never see the podium because your car is too slow. Why would someone actively choose to race in a series were 90% of the time regardless of how good they are they will have no chance at winning. Honestly if I were a professional driver I'd go to indycar.
I did some quick maths, and I found: -A 2006 Champcar can do a lap in 106.8% of the time of a 2006-era F1 car around Montreal -A 2019 Indycar can do a lap in 114.9% of the time of a 2018-era F1 car around CotA --- 2006 Champcar was closer to that particular era of Formula 1 than what we're seeing this weekend. 2019 is relatively slower for Indycar. Also it must be stated that F1 will likely smash 2018 times this year. It's not a totally-even comparison on that front yet. We'll only get that when the 2019 USGP rolls around. 2019 Indycar's percentage will probably go up when that rolls around.
Furthermore, a 2006 Champcar would have fulfilled Formula 1's "107%-rule" and qualified on-time for the Canadian Grand Prix that year (not accounting for weather), albeit toward the back.
@@sideslick1024 Was just going to point out that, about 107% rule.....but depends on the drivers too... I suspect that they'd still have do a pre-quali run, to even get listed entry for the weekend. I'm not sure who was driving Indy in 2006? Was Villeneuve? I rather suspect only the very very best Drivers that were Indy that season could have realistically got one on to the grid...(obviously discounting the regulations on cars otherwise). Villeneuve probably could have, especially on his home circuit, but was there any other driver in the 2006 season good enough I wonder.
sideslick1024 It would have made the 107% rule at Montreal but generally speaking I doubt at it would have made the cut at typical F1 circuits like Spa, Silverstone, Hungaroring, China etc.
The 2006 champcar would be 10 sec behind the 2018 F1 at Montreal. The Indycar is 14 s behind the 2018 F1 (could be more if they had track limits) , so the current indycar is at least 4s slower than the 2006 champcar.
Slowest on the list has the best racing on the planet right now..... I love Indycar, F1, WEC, IMSA and so on but you just can't beat Moto GP for action!
well i've nothing against bike, but you can't really compare 2 wheels action to 4 wheels action as you have 3-4 bike alongside a corner, and it would still be narrower than 1 race car
@@shafwandito4724 Watching the POV gives me the same feeling as standing on the edge of a cliff. The bottom of my feet start to tingle. Those boys have got beach balls.
sébastien coupé your right you cannot compare them as if moto gp had the same size contact patch (tyre to track) as any car they would probably be faster than the F1 but your right about size also
I don't understand why people try to make f1 and IndyCar into a rivalry, they are two different series with two different set of criteria for what the cars need to do. IndyCar races both ovals and road courses, while F1 is a pure road racing series. I enjoy both, IndyCar with it's diversity of disciplines and F1 for being the ultimate in engineering and speed. Yes IndyCar has better tighter racing but F1 has more speed on road courses and the strategy is still entertaining when it comes to watching the strategy involved, a bad or untimely pit stop can be the difference in 1st to 3rd place in F1. Why is it some people can't enjoy both for what they are.
Chris H they got compared because in the early years of Cart/Indy open wheel racing in the US, they where much closer to F1 then this days. At the moment Indy looks like a sunday drive compared to F1 in laptimes. Indy dont have to be as fast as F1 but it would give the series more world wide audience when they step up their game and beat F2/Superformula in laptimes.
the reason Indy cars have a higher top speed in an oval is because of the gear box settings, if an f1 car uses a gear box set for an oval the top speed would be higher than that of an Indy.
@@rexsong4835 Um, Do you think F1 Engineers are Idiots? They would not apply the same levels of downforce for an oval as they do for a road course. They could easily adjust the wing settings and downforce to support being fast around an oval. The only reason they don't is because they don't race on ovals. It's pretty simple.
@@TangoNevada A lot of the winglets are fixed. Removing all the winglets isn't easy and may even break the regulation of a F1 car. Since it cannot be done or at least cannot be done in a way that the car is still F1 compliant, a F1 car will always have more drag comparing to a indy car.
@@rexsong4835 No one is debating that. I am not implying that if F1 cars had to compete against indy cars on an oval with only F1 cars having to stick to F1 regulations. All I am saying is that, Of Course, Of Course, if F1 Engineers needed to design a car that would be as fast as possible around an oval, there is zero reason they wouldn't be at least as fast as an Indy car. That's common sense. The reverse is also true if Indy cars had the same regulations on road courses. But as it stands, F1 cars are about 13 seconds a lap faster at COTA than Indy cars. Same Track different cars.
It's truly amazing to watch them run too! If you ever get a chance, a trip to Austin to see them run at COTA, or any track of one's home country, live is something I would recommend to any fan of racing.
...Until you race ‘em on ovals. 🤔 Crude comparison (simulation), but give it a single lap & the results flip. Completely. th-cam.com/video/mwmEIR7fxhQ/w-d-xo.html All I’ll say is this: kudos to Indy for racing a track that hosts F1; when will they reciprocate? I’d love to see a tech-laden F1 car complete Indy in under 43 secs, for example. (That wouldn’t have been enough to make the field circa 1989 lol.)
I think the guy was making the point that even with wear down tires and full tanks the F1 make a joke out of the INDY or any other type of Motorsport in that track
Yanks will always always try and massage the truth in their favour, standard from a covert fascist country. Thankfully, F1 is so totally ahead that even that doesn't work.
@@chumleyk WTF, Now even being a fan of a certain racing series is fascist? Damn, Trump has fucked everything up. BTW, I am a "Yank" and the only racing I watch is F1. Stop putting us all into one group. Look at a map, The US is a large as many European Countries combined. I could go to the Creole South and it would be just as much of a Foreign Country to me as going to anywhere else in the World. I wouldn't even understand what they are saying. But they are still American.
Hamilton's salary is probably double the size of top indycar team budget so difference is not so big. As F1 fan I love Indycar it produces more interesting races.
I'd argue it'd be easier to make an F1 car as fast as an IndyCar around Indianapolis than to make an IndyCar as fast as an F1 car around a track like Spa.
F1 doesn’t have “race trim”. The cars enter parc ferme conditions before quali so no changes can be made. F1 cars are fuelled to the end so are heavy early on and have to manage their tyres on 105KG of fuel.
Yes, but they do use different engine mappings for the race compared to qualy and that has a huge impact. Also they lift and coast in the race to save fuel.
Engine modes are very different. Mercedes Benz are believed to unlock up to 200 HP more than 900-1000 already tapped, for example, when they tell Lewis or Bottas to go 'party mode'. Irrespective of trim and geometry, with low fuel and a mode like that, quali times are definitely skewed.
Who is they? Fan and insiders know very little about the power/torque of modern f1 engines. The electric motor can give a max of 160hp for 33 seconds per lap. But mercedes and ferrari can have that amount of power for longer through the mguH. Power to mguk is limited at 4mj but unlimited for the mguH. With harvesting, regen, fuel flow, fuel maps - there are many many many engines modes. Even "race" mode has many sub modes. Unless you work for the manufacturer, it's impossible to know exactly what these modes do. Bare in mind, customer teams don't get to work on, or calibrate "their' engines. It's installed by the constructors technicians and leaves at the end of the weekend.
so you try to make the Indy car not look as bad by giving the fastest race lap of the F1. How about you give us the fastest race lap for Indy... Also, Indy still allows refueling, so the cars are lighter throughout the race, relatively.
I’m a canadian f1 fan who like f1 and indycar and here is my opinion F1 is international, the compagnies invest hundreds of millions per car for developpement because they use the technologies of f1 in their future road car . On the other side, indycar is an american racing serie based a bit on f1 but were one guy/group own one team ex: penske. And they race against other teams with almost the same car. Wich yes can provide better racing but less impact on futur road car technologies, since the compagnies aren’t directly racing . Thats why indy is slower in My opinion Ps: this is just My opinion I am not trying to offend anyone
Have to say I somewhat agree. If open wheel racing series was placed on tiers with F1 as tier 1, then Indycar is definitely tier 2. The only time Indycar is faster than F1 is when Indycar runs on the large oval tracks.
Cee Infiniti yeah for sure but f1 cars aren’t build for oval racing and indycar use and other ‘’package’’ for ovals so if f1 would do that it would be closer
IndyCar also can reach higher speeds when F1 tire compounds fail such as US GP at Indy. For the teams who pulled out in that farce, they were unable to safely run faster than an IndyCar.
Why do people always feel like they need to argue about which racing series is better? As a true racing fan, you should respect every series, and the drivers. If you dont like a series, then fine, theres plenty other series to enjoy, no reason to prove why your personal preference is better. Really well made and enjoyable video btw, I subscribed!
It's not "like" two different worlds, it IS two different worlds. F1 is as much about car tech as it is drivers (that's why there are constructor AND driver championships). Indycar is a spec series and it's all about the drivers, so the tech is limited on purpose. Literally not even playing the same sport.
wildcardNS We can’t deny F1 has good drivers and just stick it on to equipments, they came prepared since childish. F1 cars should’ve stopped to evolve at 2000’s, was too fast. Regarding about racing monopost, IndyCar’s not suppose to be way behind.
@@metaleirosincero6317 I didn't say F1 didn't have good drivers. I said the sport of F1 is not all about drivers. It is equally about the manufacturer. This is simply not the case in Indycar. There are 2 engine manufacturers- Chevrolet and Honda. The performance of the cars is heavily slanted to oval speedways because that's where the money is. It's also a spec series. All of this combines to the fact that Indycar is 100% about people: the driver first and foremost, and his team who prep the car. F1 is about 50% of that, and 50% which manufacturer pushed better tech and bent the rules better. Add on top of this the budget, and your comment that Indy isn't "suppose to be way behind" is kind of irrelevant, whouldn't you agree? *Obviously* Indycar will always be significantly slower. It's the nature of the sport.
wildcardNS Yes, I get it, human effort is also important. That you say makes Indy quite limited, would be great if they bring it some more manufacturers and put the budget on aerodynamics. People like the way it is, but is good to change. I said that because its a MONOPOST racing car, therefore’s actually to be faster than it is. Stand behind a LM car?? No way.
@@metaleirosincero6317 I don't know about that. I've been watching Indycar since the early 80's and I think this is actually the best era I've seen. I have no problem with them being spec cars (aside from the engines). On the other hand, I love F1 as much as Indycar, but I was fast-forwarding through the Baku race because as soon as a Merc was leading out of turn 1, I knew it was over.
10:05 david, only the 2010 car was made by dallara (they pulled out before the season even began leaving hrt without any development) in 2011/2012 they designed there own cars.
I live in the U.K and really enjoy IndyCar. If I'm honest most people here don't give it much time and would be unable to name any IndyCar drivers that they are not already familiar with from other racing series but I hope that now the SKY F1 channel have picked up the rights to show it here that will raise its profile a lot. It has Some of the best wheel to wheel racing I have ever watched over the years. Watch and enjoy people !
@Steven Soco thats true, but crossing vast distances in hyperspace is all about how short a route you can take so using a distance is valid - the Millenium Falcon could do the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs, whereas a lesser ship would take a longer route - its about how clever and powerful your navigation system is so to describe the distance is valid.
@Robert Zimmerman - Traveling though hyperspace, real space distance might be a thing. Since we can't travel through hyperspace in this place and time, sadly, we just don't know.
He’s got his facts wrong by saying you have less time to lose on slower tracks any team will tell you you lose more time in slow corners than fast ones due to the relative time you spend in them On a fast circuit with long straights an Indy car doing 200mph is the same as a F1 car doing 200mph it’s in the braking zones and mid corner is where the difference shows F1 cars produce phenomenal braking power and cornering Gs.... it’s sad how biased this blatantly is by showing F1 race trim lap to some how play down the qualifying speeds.. it’s the same car racing as qualifying there is no changes allowed. Indy cars don’t qualify on old tyres and turndown their engines do they it was unnecessary to mention
and btw no fueling in F1 pit stops so they go with all fuel... so showing fastest race lap time really make no sense coz they have degraded tyres or more fuel what was needed...
@Sean Gavin the f1 midfield is always great. Every once in a while you get great front of the pack racing. Fortunately there was monaco and canadian gp to offer some suspense
Saying one car is “better” than the other is kinda silly. It’s about entertainment isn’t it? Watch what you enjoy. I, for one, prefer MotoGP (etc). Also this video needs to be played in 1.25 or 1.5x speed cos man it’s sloooooooooooooow.
I am not sure. F1 lives within restrictions, it is designed to fit into the restrictions and it is not an endurance series. In quali, they are already using pretty agressive engine settings to begin with.
Kerem Eser although current engines are on top of development there’s always room for improvement i was talking about aerodynamics there are tons of limits what you can do and what you can’t tell the teams build the fastest thing you possibly can and you would be surprised it is not like they can’t make it faster there’s just high risk that drivers wouldn’t be able to deal with forces in such speed through corners
@@NewBoy0606 current f1 cars are as fast as the lmp1 porche with out restrictions and DRS on all straights. Now imagine an f1 car with out restrictions on engine aero and drs. I bet i cant set its self 5 sec faster per lap
Kerem Eser said by a F1 pleb The cars are too fast, too dangerous… you like the pleb you sound like probably think straight line speed is the most dangerous part of the sport. It’s not, it is the corner speeds… when you get to see the Indy and also the F1 at the same track in real races you will understand the difference. F1 officials are doing their best to avoid extreme dangers for the drivers… I hate it but they are correct, at least they are now. At slower track times, even top speeds, the Indy chassis are more dangerous in every aspect… they should be slower, haven’t you thought about that don’t you?
Comparing the race fastest laps from the 1991 & 2018 Brazilian F1 Grand Prix(only identical track layout in both years), Nigel Mansell set a 1:20.436, and Valtteri Bottas set a 1:10.540. So basically a 10-second time advantage. Indycars are basically as fast as 1991 F1 cars! vimeo.com/160288899
...you could've simply skipped ahead. His thoughtfulness in being as accurate and thorough with actual facts instead of speculations and opinions needs time for rightful clarification.
I liked the vid - I like F1 & Indy, so nbd there - but yanno, it took time to say, and then re-say, and then correct, and yet again re-correct his statements lol. Since he wasn’t on cam, this could have been easily fixed in editing, but hey I’m not gonna lie to ya, editing is a straight-up B. Amiright?🤗 I give the vid a solid 92%. 👍
Neat comparison video. I've never seen one this expansive. BTW what song did you use while showing the race car times? It sounds sorta like Ridge Racer music.
Thank you for a very interesting video. As a side note, it´s also fun to speculate about top speeds, because the biggest difference between an F1-car and basically any other race car is propably aerodynamics, i.e. the speed the car carries through corners. Thats where the difference is built. I could be wrong, but i seem to recollect that MotoGP bikes can reach 350 kph + on long straights (not nessecarily on this particular track), but their cornering speed and braking distances are obviously totally inferior compared to - well, any car. Now I realize that F1 cars are set up for maximum speed around a whole lap, which means that in theory they could go a lot faster than their usual 320-350 kph on long straights. But wings that increase cornering speed naturally decrease top speed, etc. But anyway, its worth noticing that even if MotoGP bikes are by far slowest around around a whole lap, they're very fast on long straights. Bikes do also have all sorts of deflectors and small wings nowadays, but they basically have "no" aerodynamics, which makes them very fast on long straights.
@@ivaneurope I know. But Sauber were a shadow of their peak days from 15 years gone, by the time he drove with them. Might as well have been driving an F2 car.
It's just like we say male sprint (track and field) is superior than woman sprint just because men are faster. That's just different, and if we are really sports fans we love both.
I really enjoyed the way you break down the lap times for comparison. It gives those in your audience a real understanding when you consider the speed of each racing class. I guess what I'm trying to say is you won't hear any complaining from your truly. P.S. I just subscribed. Keep up the stellar work brother.
Not true. When they came to test a few months ago, they were faster the the previous year because of the resurfacing. The issue is, when resurfaced tracks get wet, the oils seep up to the surface making them slick.
Uh no. Wrong on so many accounts lol. The process of “rubbering in” comes & goes with the cars... and the sun, the wind, the heat, the rain... any track is considered green every morning lol. Heaven forbid a sun-baked track goes red due to rain - then dries & the racing continues: the rubber & the line are new again. Just like the racing surface wears away the rubber (and creates what is plainly visible as the racing line), so does the rubber wear down the nibs & edges of the porous tarmac over time. Case in point, may I present the routine diamond resurfacing of the USGP that resulted in Bridgestone withdrawing ~16 cars because the amazingly grippy surface ruined (shredded) their tires after a handful of laps.
That is an interesting comment. What about CART of the mid-80s to the early 2000s do you like better than Indycar today? Driver quality? The tracks are similar now/ Indycar is better than having the ChampCar/IRL split
@@scsmith4604 - I guess the main problem back then was the group that wanted to make the sport less expensive by limiting the tracks to ovals only. I enjoy ovals but not as much as standard race circuits. Winning on a road course is just more complex and requires a different skill set. I also think a lot people who like ovals just want to see wrecks, I don't. The Champ car series in the mid-2000s was some of the best open wheel racing I've ever seen.
No one seems to be taking into account the design difference in the Indycar . Its built to hit the wall at 230mph . Its bigger , heavier , stronger , specifically in the large double front bulk head and side impact structure's . Its not all about the budget. A lot of that F1 budget gets you 10ths of second , not 10 seconds . A lot comes in the differing specifications and their requirements. If you imposed that design requirement on F1 it would be a bigger , heavier , stronger and slower car. It would be faster with 100x the budget but it wouldn't be the 15% faster it is now.
And budgets are limited by rules, by the electronics rules and standard ECU and … And $200M per team x year means you are Racing Points or HASS… means nothing
The S sector after the pit straight, under the pedestrian bridge, is a sick place to sit down and watch the F1 go thru. Even at slow, tire warming, pace they are faster than anything else you have seen.
F1 front tyres are 5.1” wider and the rears are 4.5” wider than IndyCar tires. How much affect could this difference have on lap times? What if they swapped tires?
Regardless of how much slower IndyCar is to F1 I think we will see a great race and I am interested to see how it play out. Also, by the time F1 reaches COTA the cars are much more developed and faster than they are earlier in the year. Meaning the lap times would be a little closer (not by much though) if say COTA was the second race of the season in F1 like it is in IndyCar.
Not THAT much. Some teams.... but say... the top... 5 teams... arent... Ferrari, uncharacteristically, were well off their Testing indicators in Melbourne... but RBR were not... nor were Mercedes Benz. Renault were, but HAAS and Racing Point were not. Neither Renault nor Ferrari will take half a season to reach their zenith for this season. Back marker teams, and mid of the midfeld and back, are not likely to be lap record contenders anyway... so I think the time between the Indy Race and F1 one, would maybe... MAYBE... account for a few tenths.... not even a second.
@@brandoncufr201 it doesn't matter for IndyCar but F1 cars are slower earlier in the season compared to later where the USGP in the F1 schedule. I admit it isn't by much though
@@Apis4 that is true and I agree it wouldn't be a big difference either maybe a second at most but the gap between F1 and IndyCar is still very big. I would be curious to see the gap if a modern F1 car ran on say the Indy speedway course but that probably won't happen.
@@tylerensminger The difference between the highest Top Speed on track of an Indy Car at Indy, and F1 Car on a GP circuit is about 10 kph. On an Oval this would be telling... without an ability to use their far superior acceleration, braking, and turning capabilities, the F1 would be slower.
Well F1 are allowed to freely develop. Indycars are speccars. Speccars suck, if you are an engineer, like I am. It takes away half the fascination. But the racing would be great if Indycar had better driving standards. Sadly only 25% of the field are really decent drivers (by international standards, in the US of course the standard is much lower)
just a random question: did something happen to the circuit Gilles Villeneuve between 2002 and 2006? asking because the pole times for this video at 0:52 are slower than what Montoya and Da Matta did in 2002 (about a 2 sec difference in both cases)
Between 2002 and 2006 there were a few major rule changes that could explain this 2003 - Electronic antiskid systems were banned 2004 - Single engine to be used over the entire GP weekend 2005 - Single engine to be used for 2 entire GP weekends and no tire changes during the entire race 2006 - Only V8 engines can be used (or V10 of previous year with the power limited) All these changes could have contributed in reducing the average top speeds in order to save engines and tyres along with the V8 instead of V10... Source Wikipedia (french article) fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoire_de_la_r%C3%A9glementation_de_la_Formule_1#Ann%C3%A9es_2000
Tracks tend to get faster over a race weekend due to rubbering in. However over greater lengths of time, tracks develop bumps and cracks, which hinder lap times. So do the repairs. They therefore get slower and slower until they’re resurfaced, at which point they sometimes get faster and sometimes not, depending on the new asphalt compound.
@@callejarvholm Catalunya isn't 3 seconds faster after its resurface. F1 cars are faster this year plus testing times this year were faster as all teams put in more fast runs this year. Refer to Matthew's comment as thats more or less what I stated above.
A very very good and interesting video. Everyone does want a straight forward comparison between top racing series on the same track. Your videos are very very informative and very very clearly described.
Differing regulations give differing results, simple as. But that said, you want to go the fastest round it, you get an f1 car and leave the indycar in the dust
The problem is the yanks literally claim to have the fastest race cars in the world. If they did'nt speak shit like that, peaople would'nt really bother comparing
just to be fair .. you should compare the fastest laps in race conditions (Lap record) for both Indycar and F1 .. this would put the time in 2019 for INDYCAR Classic to 1:48.8953 sec
"when cota was new it had much more grip" I love your videos mate but please step away from the spliff have you seen the 2012 F1 race the circuit was covered in sand and dust the formula 1 cars couldn't stay on the circuit especially turn 19 bit like the indycars last weekend lol and I love both series but come on oh and by the way that's a f2 car you have on your thumbnail not an F1 car 😀
Pol Reyes Hita its most certainly one of their cars. New circuits are very slick, a lot of them secret oil until properly used so there’s actually less grip in some circuits.
DPi is already represented with the Oreca, since they are basically LMP2 cars and the other classes would have been to much for one video, given the fact, that he wanted to focus on the 10 fastest machines around the track.
Well done and effectively put together. You make a very effective point that the technical designs will have the major impact on overall performance. Dear me the electrics have made such differences. Thanks and well done
The only strong part of bikes: top straight speed… But we are taking COTA… now let’s go to Isle of Man, TT… geez that is awesome!!! And too damn dangerous. Look for KZ2 championship videos: all the competitions described here are slow and boring in comparison to those “slower” but quicker Karts
So in other words the F1 cars are far more superior than any other race car . Well no surprise there . That's what F1 is all about getting the formula right in the first place way more technical than just going round in circles like the indi cars . Getting the formula just right is way complicated than you think . Chassis set up , fuel load , engine boost on the settings , qualifying mode is probly the fastest mode when fuel is light . Tyres choices ambient track temperature . Break valance . F1 cars are the most complex machines on the planet . There's a lot more technology in those cars than the indi cars or the lemans cars .
The thing about F1 is that there is no other racing car as engineered are a Formula One period, but on the other hand, they are also heavily restricted. The saddest thing about Formula One is, when they switched to 6 cylinder turbo's, there was nothing more exiting then when a F1 was screaming down the track with it's 20,000 RPM v8/10's/12's.
What is the point of F1 having a full field. Just start Hamilton and Bottas and watch Bottas follow Hamilton around for a couple hours. Same result, Mercedes 1st and 2nd. Don't hate, you know it's true.
The philosophy in F1 is not only letting drivers fight against each other, but also enterprises fighting each others, so it came from time to time that an enterprise became dominant, especially when Mercedes is in the game, German engineering... ;) ps. sorry for my English.
@@Jean-Pierre-Villard Germans are great engineers. Your English is great. I have a broad interest in all types of Motorsports, but I question how competitive F1 can be... It seems like it's been this way for a long time. What would you think of F1 adding an oval track to the schedule?
@@SS-kz7td Hello, F1 have a lot of regulations but there is always a little bit room for interpretation and there is often a team where find the best interpretation, so few years ago the team Red-Bull was dominant, another few years before the dominant team was Ferrari, now it´s Mercedes. Every couple of years they change drastically the rules, so it´s like a new game with new chances for the other teams to find the perfect interpretation of the new rules. But there is definitely a problem now with Mercedes, their resources are simply to big compared to other teams, so i think F1 need a budget-limitation. I love F1 but also IndyCar (and of course MotoGP), since the hybrid-era with their "fantastic" vacuum-cleaner-sound i love IndyCar even more, an oval track would be great but i don´t think that this gonna happen because of security questions, they would be so fast that almost every crash would kill some pilots, for West-Europeans today totally unimaginable, that would give drama over drama lol Have a nice day (or night depending where You live) ;)
All that matters is that given the same amount of laps, I can drink more beer at the IndyCar race.
😂😂😂
Priorities... you've got them bang on!
As a diehard F1 fan I must say... this is the best argument Iv seem to date that would convert me to Indycar. I’m gonna have to check it out in this case!
@@mr97ace Ur crazy 😜
Drink faster
F1 vs Indycar is like F1 vs Williams
Harsh, but fair.
GP2 Engine! GP2
The williams is faster than an Indycar though by about 10 seconds. Williams should join the Indycar series lol
Mwi O well not exactly in times yes in speeds no
Savage
So basically in a 50 lap race, the Mercedes F1 will lap the Indy car six times.
Nah in a 50 lap race the Mercedes would breakdown like usual.
Louis Cypher sounds like you are think of Ricciardo’s Red Bull last year. When did the Mercs really break down? I mean they won the drivers and constructors championship...
@@louiscypher4186 Merc always wins constructor's championship but ok
Louis Cypher mercedes would break down like usual??? Dafuck 🤦🏻♂️ they only had one issue in Austria, so breaking down once out of 21 races means they usually breakdown? People just love to talk shit
Louis Cypher LMAO you have no clue what you’re talking about do you. Mercedes road cars reliability != Mercedes F1 reliability lol. Idiot
I love both F1 &IndyCar. F1 speeds are just monstrous, they are pulling 6.5 Gs with today’s modern cars. IndyCar has its own unique speed that you have to really wrestle around the track and the oval speeds are just crazy. I’d say both series have cars that look amazing too. I am just happy as a fan of Motorsports that we have IndyCar, F1, and LMP1.
Unfortunately won’t have LMP1 for long, Hypercars replacing them
Nitrous F1 Yeah and with both Porsche and Audi leaving it’s really to bad. The cars look so cool and their design is what allows them be to so quick. Hypercars will have to do a lot of modifications to get the downforce and overall performance capabilities that LMP1 cars have at the moment.
Paulietwan Twan I miss the days of epic battles for the lead between Porsche, Audi and Toyota!
Nitrous F1 same man, same.
Paulietwan Twan Hypercars are targeted to be over 10 seconds per lap slower at Le Mans compared to LMP1
Don't forget to set playback speed to 1.25x
saved me some time thx
He sounds normal haha
You da real MVP
It was a tad slow at 1x
The sloooowwww video allowed him to get it over the 10 minute mark so he could get ad revenue for what is essentially a 3 second gif.
Its a tad annoying that people go on and on about how much F1 teams spend and how the gap should've been bigger for such a budget.
People need to familiarize themselves with the concept of "diminishing returns" at the top end of motorsport. Its not like the FIA simply said "Here's $400m. Go and make the fastest car possible by any means necessary." There are strict rules and regulations implanted by the FIA so that teams don't go crazy with their cars. Most of a team's budget is spent on the best personnel and equipment available in order to come up with new innovative design choices that, while improving performance of an already incredibly fast car, still complies with those strict regulations.
Despite everything you just said, it's still not a spec car; which is why the budget argument is relevant.
@@x3wildcard - I must've missed the part where I said budget is irrelevant.
@@kuyt20 Must have missed the part where I claimed you said it was irrelevant.
@@x3wildcard - You replied to me specifically and made the remark, didn't you? Or did you reply by mistake?
@@kuyt20 No, I replied to you on purpose to reinforce why the argument you find annoying matters.
Alonso's F1 car was over 5 seconds a lap faster than Bourdais' Indy car - and running on grooved tyres, not slicks!
ok good to know tf no one cares
And traction control, which the Indy car didn't have.
@@michaeldavis2531 f1 hasn’t had traction control in decades
@@JimiAle from 2002 to 2008 they had traction controll I believe
@@omadta5798 actually thats not true it was banned in 08
This comments section should be fully rational and calm.
David Land it’s very weird to hear an American saying Renault because I’m used to hearing a British person saying that and when they say it sounds much better. Just something I noticed
I'm just glad I get to watch racing almost every weekend again....
This is TH-cam, that's not exactly likely :-p
WRONG Bitches, Indycar is faster than F1 at COTA here is the proof
th-cam.com/video/l50m_DOiGgQ/w-d-xo.html
Also since F2 is only 6-8 sec slower than F1 then F2 is also faster than Indycar
Indycar is about 1-2 seconds a lap slower than GP2.
Oh god, don't tell Fernando Alonso...
@@artyrussell Indy car engine, Indy car. Ughh
And the other way around depending on the track.
Careful with that claim… but indeed both are similar
Arthur Russell LOL
an F2 car is actually significantly faster as an IndyCar, thus more than 1-2 seconds per lap
I think it shows how impressive LMP1 cars were when there track record from a couple of years ago is pretty much as fast as Indycars.
jack coffey indycars didn’t increase in performance since the 90s, i think even the champcars are faster than todays indycars.
@@johncarl5505 long beach lap record is from 2017 and 2018 was only 3/10ths slower . Its about 2 seconds faster than the 2000 pole and those 2000 900hp cart cars were monsters. so the current cars are quick , but their lack of HP hurts on the speedways.
The Porsche 919 evo (basically an LMP1 car with the limits of reglementation away) even beat several lap records set by F1 cars. And that thing is built to do that stuff for 24 hours... LMP1 cars are just insane machines.
Just search for 919 evo vs f1 on youtube to find that video.
Dukhanstmichmal 919 Evo isn’t actually fitted to run those 24 hour events, but I would not at all be surprised if it could pull it off anyway haha. Fucking Porsche engineers are crazy man
A Max long beach had a different layout back then, plus the fastest champ cars are the 2008 ones.
The Indycars also had no track limits Haha.
FACT!!!
That would give Charlie a headache
Cutting corner baby
That was so embarrassing for Indy.
@@aslamnurfikri7640 seriously guy? Charlie has passed away. Pay some respect
the biggest surprise to me was how close the GTE and Moto GP class were
Straight line speed and acceleration of the Moto GP bike, some long-is straights for it to make up for the corners at COTA.
Love both F1 and Indycar. F1 has the speed, but indycar has the action. Love watching how twitchy the indycar gets through turns and how on edge it is, but also enjoy watching the f1 cars and how quick they can brake and accelerate. Two completely different series that I enjoy for different reasons
dragonblazer96 what turns? Lolz
Ali Khadour Indycar drives mostly on road courses and city courses. Only 6 tracks are ovals in the Indycar calendar.
I’m from Indy & while I’m not old enough to have actually attended, it’s worth noting that Indy 500 used to be an FIA-sanctioned race. The worldwide playing field used to be that open. Sure, the tech in F1 is equal parts awesome & outrageous... it really is. But the lack of wheel-to-wheel action - at speed - leaves me with a single-file line of a procession, er I mean race. To see if P1 has a tech issue & retires isn’t racing. Imo.
indy cars are faster cars though lmao
@@failtolawl only top speed wise on ovals.
They don't have nearly the grip when taking corners on road courses.
THE FASTEST AND GREATEST FORM OF RACING IS ILLEGAL DAIHATSU MATERIA RACING AROUND THE NEW HAMPSHIRE ROAD COURSE.
Caps lock
Usually i sit on the fence with such an argument but this is so true it brings a tear to my eye
PFFFT nothing beats FWD shitbox 8-figure racing
Wait actually it's Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing
finally someone that understands
In all honesty no one should expect that indycars are anywhere near as fast due to budget differences and rule differences, but that doesn't mean Indy car is necessarily worse as a series. Both are great series worthy of people's respect and the drivers of both are incredibly skilled and some of the best at what they do. The only thing that I don't like about F1 is that they basically false advertise it. They make it seem like it's a driver's series when in reality it isn't a driver's series at all. it's an engineer's series. I respect and love both sports but Indycar is my personal favortie as it's significantly more entertaining on TV than F1. F1 is insane in person but on TV it is generally a snooze fest. Like Spa in person was amazing when I went. Seeing the cars fly up Eau Rouge-Raidillon was insane, but watching Spa on TV is relatively boring. F1 is like NASCAR. You have to be there at the race to actually see whats so enjoyable about it. The TV doesn't do it justice at all. Indycar on the other hand is really good on TV and even better in person. Thankfully they're increasing the horsepower in 2021. Hopefully the improve the underwing as well to improve the cornering speed while still allowing for close racing.
Your opinion. I think F1 is the better package. And what is more entertaining is subjective. Lately there are many spec. car racings that i would put ahead of Indycar.
Spec series are good. They're a good way of comparing how good drivers are against one another.
But the technology in F1 is insane.
I m watching Indycar in COTA and you can see the difference compared to the F1 race at the same circuit. The amount of spectators , the buzz at Indycar race day is like the feeling on F1 2nd training day.
Excuse me but the Indy authorities and the fans have always bragged and claimed superiority… in a miserable cowardly way.
Since the 1990’s of Senna, Mansell and Prost… and the difference in technology was too much to make a comparison
@@RebeccaCampbell1969 F1 and Indycar (CART) tech wasnt actually that different before the split. There were differences in the tech but each were state of the art racecars. The main difference was the fact that Indycars had significantly heavier sidepods and such. Also F1 fans have always been incredibly pretentious about F1 and how its "better than Indycar" while all Indycar fans have always said is that "We have better racing" which when it comes to the fan perspective Indycar did and still does have better racing in terms of More wheel to wheel action, more battles, multiple drivers fighting for the championship, etc. But that's just because F1 is a different kind of motorsport. Its for engineers and manufacturers, not drivers. The only driver aspect was that they were considered daredevils due to the risk but that aspect has been pretty much completely eliminated. CART wasnt even a spec series. The only reason it is now is because of the split destroying the popularity and budgets. The IRL was a joke and CART/Champ Car lost their biggest race, The Indy 500. Heres the thing. Technology and lap times doesnt equate to good racing or a good product for fans. Everyone wants big roaring V10s but thats not high tech or efficient. TT V6s are. Fans and Drivers want skill based racing thats close/competative. To do that you need less sophisticated aero and a more balanced field. Why any driver would want to race in F1 anymore is beyond me. What's the point in joining a series just to never see the podium because your car is too slow. Why would someone actively choose to race in a series were 90% of the time regardless of how good they are they will have no chance at winning. Honestly if I were a professional driver I'd go to indycar.
I did some quick maths, and I found:
-A 2006 Champcar can do a lap in 106.8% of the time of a 2006-era F1 car around Montreal
-A 2019 Indycar can do a lap in 114.9% of the time of a 2018-era F1 car around CotA
---
2006 Champcar was closer to that particular era of Formula 1 than what we're seeing this weekend. 2019 is relatively slower for Indycar.
Also it must be stated that F1 will likely smash 2018 times this year. It's not a totally-even comparison on that front yet. We'll only get that when the 2019 USGP rolls around. 2019 Indycar's percentage will probably go up when that rolls around.
Furthermore, a 2006 Champcar would have fulfilled Formula 1's "107%-rule" and qualified on-time for the Canadian Grand Prix that year (not accounting for weather), albeit toward the back.
@@sideslick1024 Was just going to point out that, about 107% rule.....but depends on the drivers too... I suspect that they'd still have do a pre-quali run, to even get listed entry for the weekend.
I'm not sure who was driving Indy in 2006? Was Villeneuve? I rather suspect only the very very best Drivers that were Indy that season could have realistically got one on to the grid...(obviously discounting the regulations on cars otherwise).
Villeneuve probably could have, especially on his home circuit, but was there any other driver in the 2006 season good enough I wonder.
sideslick1024 It would have made the 107% rule at Montreal but generally speaking I doubt at it would have made the cut at typical F1 circuits like Spa, Silverstone, Hungaroring, China etc.
The 2006 champcar would be 10 sec behind the 2018 F1 at Montreal. The Indycar is 14 s behind the 2018 F1 (could be more if they had track limits) , so the current indycar is at least 4s slower than the 2006 champcar.
Slowest on the list has the best racing on the planet right now..... I love Indycar, F1, WEC, IMSA and so on but you just can't beat Moto GP for action!
well i've nothing against bike, but you can't really compare 2 wheels action to 4 wheels action as you have 3-4 bike alongside a corner, and it would still be narrower than 1 race car
Moto gp is good stuff. But the isle of man is even better.
@@boltactoinbarney I have to say, watching Isle of man in TV is boring but when you watch it with your own eyes, that thing is dangerous and amazing.
@@shafwandito4724 Watching the POV gives me the same feeling as standing on the edge of a cliff. The bottom of my feet start to tingle. Those boys have got beach balls.
sébastien coupé your right you cannot compare them as if moto gp had the same size contact patch (tyre to track) as any car they would probably be faster than the F1 but your right about size also
I don't understand why people try to make f1 and IndyCar into a rivalry, they are two different series with two different set of criteria for what the cars need to do. IndyCar races both ovals and road courses, while F1 is a pure road racing series. I enjoy both, IndyCar with it's diversity of disciplines and F1 for being the ultimate in engineering and speed. Yes IndyCar has better tighter racing but F1 has more speed on road courses and the strategy is still entertaining when it comes to watching the strategy involved, a bad or untimely pit stop can be the difference in 1st to 3rd place in F1. Why is it some people can't enjoy both for what they are.
Chris H they got compared because in the early years of Cart/Indy open wheel racing in the US, they where much closer to F1 then this days. At the moment Indy looks like a sunday drive compared to F1 in laptimes.
Indy dont have to be as fast as F1 but it would give the series more world wide audience when they step up their game and beat F2/Superformula in laptimes.
Only a few of the tracks in f1 are street circuits
the reason Indy cars have a higher top speed in an oval is because of the gear box settings, if an f1 car uses a gear box set for an oval the top speed would be higher than that of an Indy.
F1 cars have more drag than a minivan actually.
I doubt that F1 will be quicker than indy cars in an oval because of the drag they have.
@@rexsong4835 Um, Do you think F1 Engineers are Idiots? They would not apply the same levels of downforce for an oval as they do for a road course. They could easily adjust the wing settings and downforce to support being fast around an oval. The only reason they don't is because they don't race on ovals. It's pretty simple.
@@TangoNevada A lot of the winglets are fixed. Removing all the winglets isn't easy and may even break the regulation of a F1 car. Since it cannot be done or at least cannot be done in a way that the car is still F1 compliant, a F1 car will always have more drag comparing to a indy car.
@@rexsong4835 No one is debating that. I am not implying that if F1 cars had to compete against indy cars on an oval with only F1 cars having to stick to F1 regulations. All I am saying is that, Of Course, Of Course, if F1 Engineers needed to design a car that would be as fast as possible around an oval, there is zero reason they wouldn't be at least as fast as an Indy car. That's common sense. The reverse is also true if Indy cars had the same regulations on road courses. But as it stands, F1 cars are about 13 seconds a lap faster at COTA than Indy cars. Same Track different cars.
Good lord....F1 is fast. I'm a casual race fan to be honest and I knew F1 was fast, but that's just nuts.
Type "F1 Speed" in the search bar.. The first 2 vids show how monstrouly fast these cars are
It's truly amazing to watch them run too! If you ever get a chance, a trip to Austin to see them run at COTA, or any track of one's home country, live is something I would recommend to any fan of racing.
Sadly the racing action isn't that entertaining though. :(
crude and not direct comp but th-cam.com/video/2Ft3Ug_YthM/w-d-xo.html
...Until you race ‘em on ovals. 🤔
Crude comparison (simulation), but give it a single lap & the results flip. Completely.
th-cam.com/video/mwmEIR7fxhQ/w-d-xo.html
All I’ll say is this: kudos to Indy for racing a track that hosts F1; when will they reciprocate?
I’d love to see a tech-laden F1 car complete Indy in under 43 secs, for example. (That wouldn’t have been enough to make the field circa 1989 lol.)
You should compare quali time with qualyi time, race time with race time. So Lewis's fastest lap in race was 1.37 what was it for indy.
He said it was 1:45 for the Indy car in the video.
@@505Goat It cant be quicker in race than qualy
Tufan AKARIRMAK he had the quali time too
@@precky6108 it really cant. Not in f1 at least idk about indy i dont watch it.
I think the guy was making the point that even with wear down tires and full tanks the F1 make a joke out of the INDY or any other type of Motorsport in that track
i like how you added a 2nd time for the race time for F1 adding all most 5 seconds .. now add the average race time for the other cars lol
Yanks will always always try and massage the truth in their favour, standard from a covert fascist country. Thankfully, F1 is so totally ahead that even that doesn't work.
@@chumleyk how do you bring politics and facism into a video about racing, its pretty impressive actually
@@chumleyk WTF, Now even being a fan of a certain racing series is fascist? Damn, Trump has fucked everything up. BTW, I am a "Yank" and the only racing I watch is F1. Stop putting us all into one group. Look at a map, The US is a large as many European Countries combined. I could go to the Creole South and it would be just as much of a Foreign Country to me as going to anywhere else in the World. I wouldn't even understand what they are saying. But they are still American.
Hamilton's salary is probably double the size of top indycar team budget so difference is not so big. As F1 fan I love Indycar it produces more interesting races.
The Cadillac DPi did a 1:54.809 in qualifying for the 2017 IMSA race at COTA, which would slot in at #8 and push the motogp off the top 10.
But since the Cadillac is basically a Dallara P217 and the Oreca 07 is already on the list, it wouldn´t have made much sense to put it on the list.
I'd argue it'd be easier to make an F1 car as fast as an IndyCar around Indianapolis than to make an IndyCar as fast as an F1 car around a track like Spa.
F1 doesn’t have “race trim”. The cars enter parc ferme conditions before quali so no changes can be made.
F1 cars are fuelled to the end so are heavy early on and have to manage their tyres on 105KG of fuel.
Yes, but they do use different engine mappings for the race compared to qualy and that has a huge impact. Also they lift and coast in the race to save fuel.
Engine modes are very different.
Mercedes Benz are believed to unlock up to 200 HP more than 900-1000 already tapped, for example, when they tell Lewis or Bottas to go 'party mode'.
Irrespective of trim and geometry, with low fuel and a mode like that, quali times are definitely skewed.
Erm no. quali mode does not unlock that much more hp. About 30 or 40.
@@Bahamuttiamat they say up to 90, but many other teams suspect it's well over 100.
Who is they? Fan and insiders know very little about the power/torque of modern f1 engines. The electric motor can give a max of 160hp for 33 seconds per lap. But mercedes and ferrari can have that amount of power for longer through the mguH. Power to mguk is limited at 4mj but unlimited for the mguH. With harvesting, regen, fuel flow, fuel maps - there are many many many engines modes. Even "race" mode has many sub modes. Unless you work for the manufacturer, it's impossible to know exactly what these modes do. Bare in mind, customer teams don't get to work on, or calibrate "their' engines. It's installed by the constructors technicians and leaves at the end of the weekend.
so you try to make the Indy car not look as bad by giving the fastest race lap of the F1. How about you give us the fastest race lap for Indy... Also, Indy still allows refueling, so the cars are lighter throughout the race, relatively.
Well generally that is slower too. They dont qualify with full tanks. They put about 3 laps worth of fuel in it. To qualify
@@MotohUS Just like F1 and all other racing series too
@Ploke Newo78 F1 cars create WAY more downforce though, just saying
I’m a canadian f1 fan who like f1 and indycar and here is my opinion F1 is international, the compagnies invest hundreds of millions per car for developpement because they use the technologies of f1 in their future road car . On the other side, indycar is an american racing serie based a bit on f1 but were one guy/group own one team ex: penske. And they race against other teams with almost the same car. Wich yes can provide better racing but less impact on futur road car technologies, since the compagnies aren’t directly racing . Thats why indy is slower in My opinion
Ps: this is just My opinion I am not trying to offend anyone
Have to say I somewhat agree. If open wheel racing series was placed on tiers with F1 as tier 1, then Indycar is definitely tier 2. The only time Indycar is faster than F1 is when Indycar runs on the large oval tracks.
Nothing from F1 in the last 30 years has made it into a real car. Some extremely expensive exotics but nothing else.
@@joshhill5932 Nonsense.
Mazda's have a kind of KERs.... MAZDA!
What are you talking about.
Cee Infiniti yeah for sure but f1 cars aren’t build for oval racing and indycar use and other ‘’package’’ for ovals so if f1 would do that it would be closer
IndyCar also can reach higher speeds when F1 tire compounds fail such as US GP at Indy. For the teams who pulled out in that farce, they were unable to safely run faster than an IndyCar.
I just respect the guys in F1 the amount of G's they pull is crazy and the speed is nuts.
Why do people always feel like they need to argue about which racing series is better? As a true racing fan, you should respect every series, and the drivers. If you dont like a series, then fine, theres plenty other series to enjoy, no reason to prove why your personal preference is better. Really well made and enjoyable video btw, I subscribed!
I could never imagine they both would be so far from each other, the gap and tech between its like two different worlds.
It's not "like" two different worlds, it IS two different worlds. F1 is as much about car tech as it is drivers (that's why there are constructor AND driver championships). Indycar is a spec series and it's all about the drivers, so the tech is limited on purpose. Literally not even playing the same sport.
wildcardNS We can’t deny F1 has good drivers and just stick it on to equipments, they came prepared since childish. F1 cars should’ve stopped to evolve at 2000’s, was too fast. Regarding about racing monopost, IndyCar’s not suppose to be way behind.
@@metaleirosincero6317 I didn't say F1 didn't have good drivers. I said the sport of F1 is not all about drivers. It is equally about the manufacturer. This is simply not the case in Indycar. There are 2 engine manufacturers- Chevrolet and Honda. The performance of the cars is heavily slanted to oval speedways because that's where the money is. It's also a spec series. All of this combines to the fact that Indycar is 100% about people: the driver first and foremost, and his team who prep the car. F1 is about 50% of that, and 50% which manufacturer pushed better tech and bent the rules better. Add on top of this the budget, and your comment that Indy isn't "suppose to be way behind" is kind of irrelevant, whouldn't you agree? *Obviously* Indycar will always be significantly slower. It's the nature of the sport.
wildcardNS Yes, I get it, human effort is also important. That you say makes Indy quite limited, would be great if they bring it some more manufacturers and put the budget on aerodynamics. People like the way it is, but is good to change.
I said that because its a MONOPOST racing car, therefore’s actually to be faster than it is. Stand behind a LM car?? No way.
@@metaleirosincero6317 I don't know about that. I've been watching Indycar since the early 80's and I think this is actually the best era I've seen. I have no problem with them being spec cars (aside from the engines). On the other hand, I love F1 as much as Indycar, but I was fast-forwarding through the Baku race because as soon as a Merc was leading out of turn 1, I knew it was over.
10:05 david, only the 2010 car was made by dallara (they pulled out before the season even began leaving hrt without any development) in 2011/2012 they designed there own cars.
Enjoyed this video DL. Thank you for your time & effort.
I live in the U.K and really enjoy IndyCar. If I'm honest most people here don't give it much time and would be unable to name any IndyCar drivers that they are not already familiar with from other racing series but I hope that now the SKY F1 channel have picked up the rights to show it here that will raise its profile a lot. It has Some of the best wheel to wheel racing I have ever watched over the years. Watch and enjoy people !
F1 still can’t do the kessel run in 12 parsecs though
They are closer though.
@Steven Soco It is a quote from Star Wars you tart!
@Steven Soco thats true, but crossing vast distances in hyperspace is all about how short a route you can take so using a distance is valid - the Millenium Falcon could do the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs, whereas a lesser ship would take a longer route - its about how clever and powerful your navigation system is so to describe the distance is valid.
@Robert Zimmerman - Traveling though hyperspace, real space distance might be a thing. Since we can't travel through hyperspace in this place and time, sadly, we just don't know.
He’s got his facts wrong by saying you have less time to lose on slower tracks any team will tell you you lose more time in slow corners than fast ones due to the relative time you spend in them
On a fast circuit with long straights an Indy car doing 200mph is the same as a F1 car doing 200mph it’s in the braking zones and mid corner is where the difference shows
F1 cars produce phenomenal braking power and cornering Gs.... it’s sad how biased this blatantly is by showing F1 race trim lap to some how play down the qualifying speeds.. it’s the same car racing as qualifying there is no changes allowed.
Indy cars don’t qualify on old tyres and turndown their engines do they it was unnecessary to mention
and btw no fueling in F1 pit stops so they go with all fuel... so showing fastest race lap time really make no sense coz they have degraded tyres or more fuel what was needed...
I took it as F1 in race conditions was still way faster.
@@WalintHUN parc ferme only applies to car packages so fuel can be added before the race
He said less time to lose on SHORTER tracks, not slower
Mark Vorster length of track is irrelevant. slower speeds per Mile is the relevant
The IndyCar drivers are having to wheel the heck out of their cars. I haven't seen so much wheeling since the Cleveland days.
I’m not from Cleveland, but I understand this reference and I APPROVE of this message. 😛
I really don't see the point of comparisons like this. IndyCar isn't
trying to be f1 and F1 isn't trying to be IndyCar.
Fun?
Remember people comparing nascar with f1
And common sense prevails
Don't watch then, some of us enjoy comparing things. Purely for the sake of it.
I just like good ole racing👍 throw a car on a track and I'll watch!
No truer words out there.
Same
That’s the way to go
as long as its not spec racing....i hate spec racing
@Sean Gavin the f1 midfield is always great. Every once in a while you get great front of the pack racing. Fortunately there was monaco and canadian gp to offer some suspense
Saying one car is “better” than the other is kinda silly.
It’s about entertainment isn’t it? Watch what you enjoy.
I, for one, prefer MotoGP (etc).
Also this video needs to be played in 1.25 or 1.5x speed cos man it’s sloooooooooooooow.
Well, it's not silly. We can objectively say F1 cars are just better, but that doesn't mean the others aren't fun to watch.
i’m sure F1 cars without restrictions would be able to cut down their times by 5-10 seconds on many circuits
I am not sure. F1 lives within restrictions, it is designed to fit into the restrictions and it is not an endurance series. In quali, they are already using pretty agressive engine settings to begin with.
Kerem Eser although current engines are on top of development there’s always room for improvement
i was talking about aerodynamics
there are tons of limits what you can do and what you can’t
tell the teams build the fastest thing you possibly can and you would be surprised
it is not like they can’t make it faster
there’s just high risk that drivers wouldn’t be able to deal with forces in such speed through corners
@@NewBoy0606 current f1 cars are as fast as the lmp1 porche with out restrictions and DRS on all straights. Now imagine an f1 car with out restrictions on engine aero and drs. I bet i cant set its self 5 sec faster per lap
Kerem Eser said by a F1 pleb
The cars are too fast, too dangerous… you like the pleb you sound like probably think straight line speed is the most dangerous part of the sport. It’s not, it is the corner speeds… when you get to see the Indy and also the F1 at the same track in real races you will understand the difference.
F1 officials are doing their best to avoid extreme dangers for the drivers… I hate it but they are correct, at least they are now.
At slower track times, even top speeds, the Indy chassis are more dangerous in every aspect… they should be slower, haven’t you thought about that don’t you?
@@RebeccaCampbell1969 No. what I am saying is they are too unreliable.
Comparing the race fastest laps from the 1991 & 2018 Brazilian F1 Grand Prix(only identical track layout in both years), Nigel Mansell set a 1:20.436, and Valtteri Bottas set a 1:10.540.
So basically a 10-second time advantage.
Indycars are basically as fast as 1991 F1 cars!
vimeo.com/160288899
Indy at COTA is sweet!.
More racing should go there.
Awesome video! I've always wanted to know the comparison between F1 and Indy and we got way more than that in this video. Thanks David!
This didn’t have to be 13 min long, though decent vid
...you could've simply skipped ahead. His thoughtfulness in being as accurate and thorough with actual facts instead of speculations and opinions needs time for rightful clarification.
Americans hey🙄
He gets more watch time which means more money.
I liked the vid - I like F1 & Indy, so nbd there - but yanno, it took time to say, and then re-say, and then correct, and yet again re-correct his statements lol. Since he wasn’t on cam, this could have been easily fixed in editing, but hey I’m not gonna lie to ya, editing is a straight-up B. Amiright?🤗
I give the vid a solid 92%. 👍
Neat comparison video. I've never seen one this expansive. BTW what song did you use while showing the race car times? It sounds sorta like Ridge Racer music.
Can’t we like both forms of open wheel racing? Or is that just me?
Both are just different levels of respect given we know both are damn fast
Team Wabeenology Exactly!
NO !
No one likes you.
@michael lavery who me?
Thank you for a very interesting video. As a side note, it´s also fun to speculate about top speeds, because the biggest difference between an F1-car and basically any other race car is propably aerodynamics, i.e. the speed the car carries through corners. Thats where the difference is built. I could be wrong, but i seem to recollect that MotoGP bikes can reach 350 kph + on long straights (not nessecarily on this particular track), but their cornering speed and braking distances are obviously totally inferior compared to - well, any car.
Now I realize that F1 cars are set up for maximum speed around a whole lap, which means that in theory they could go a lot faster than their usual 320-350 kph on long straights. But wings that increase cornering speed naturally decrease top speed, etc. But anyway, its worth noticing that even if MotoGP bikes are by far slowest around around a whole lap, they're very fast on long straights. Bikes do also have all sorts of deflectors and small wings nowadays, but they basically have "no" aerodynamics, which makes them very fast on long straights.
I predict Rossi wins it. He and Erickson are the only ones in the series who have raced there in an FIA F1 Grand Prix
Go Rossi!
Joey of the Priuses I always forget he was in formula one!
Neither Rossi, Ericsson or Chilton ever drove anything you could remotely call 'an experience' in F1, just saying :P
@@Apis4 Out of these three Ericsson has more experience on the track - between 2015 and 2018
@@ivaneurope I know.
But Sauber were a shadow of their peak days from 15 years gone, by the time he drove with them. Might as well have been driving an F2 car.
900-1000HP IndyCar now please.
Plus less weight.
J Barnsley we have to wait until 2021 for the 900bhp engines.
Bring back the CART cars!!!
Fon Qooc thats what restrictors for oval racing are for
@@1320crusier plus plus weight
It's just like we say male sprint (track and field) is superior than woman sprint just because men are faster. That's just different, and if we are really sports fans we love both.
I really enjoyed the way you break down the lap times for comparison. It gives those in your audience a real understanding when you consider the speed of each racing class. I guess what I'm trying to say is you won't hear any complaining from your truly.
P.S. I just subscribed. Keep up the stellar work brother.
10:30 the circuit would have less grip when new as it wasn’t rubbered in
Not true. When they came to test a few months ago, they were faster the the previous year because of the resurfacing. The issue is, when resurfaced tracks get wet, the oils seep up to the surface making them slick.
Uh no. Wrong on so many accounts lol. The process of “rubbering in” comes & goes with the cars... and the sun, the wind, the heat, the rain... any track is considered green every morning lol. Heaven forbid a sun-baked track goes red due to rain - then dries & the racing continues: the rubber & the line are new again.
Just like the racing surface wears away the rubber (and creates what is plainly visible as the racing line), so does the rubber wear down the nibs & edges of the porous tarmac over time. Case in point, may I present the routine diamond resurfacing of the USGP that resulted in Bridgestone withdrawing ~16 cars because the amazingly grippy surface ruined (shredded) their tires after a handful of laps.
Missed the opportunity to put an Alexander Rossi F1 car and IndyCar in the thumbnail
Good idea!
I still prefer CART to Indycar.
That is an interesting comment. What about CART of the mid-80s to the early 2000s do you like better than Indycar today? Driver quality? The tracks are similar now/ Indycar is better than having the ChampCar/IRL split
@@scsmith4604 - I guess the main problem back then was the group that wanted to make the sport less expensive by limiting the tracks to ovals only. I enjoy ovals but not as much as standard race circuits. Winning on a road course is just more complex and requires a different skill set. I also think a lot people who like ovals just want to see wrecks, I don't. The Champ car series in the mid-2000s was some of the best open wheel racing I've ever seen.
If you want the highest tech, fastest cars.... F1. If you want less tech, slower cars, but better overall racing where everyone has a shot.... INDY
Would a GP2 car be faster than an IndyCar?
Probably
The current F2 car? Probably.
Likely
Did you mean McLaren Honda?
I was at the COTA and will be today for the Indy race. That Indy lites race was something to see!
Seeing as how Marlboro noticed you I think that because of this video , IndyCar, F1,WEC Etc will try to compete more lol
No one seems to be taking into account the design difference in the Indycar . Its built to hit the wall at 230mph . Its bigger , heavier , stronger , specifically in the large double front bulk head and side impact structure's . Its not all about the budget. A lot of that F1 budget gets you 10ths of second , not 10 seconds . A lot comes in the differing specifications and their requirements. If you imposed that design requirement on F1 it would be a bigger , heavier , stronger and slower car. It would be faster with 100x the budget but it wouldn't be the 15% faster it is now.
You speak as if Formula One development isn't limited by, you know, the Formula...
Imagine how mental a completely unrestricted car would be
And budgets are limited by rules, by the electronics rules and standard ECU and …
And $200M per team x year means you are Racing Points or HASS… means nothing
@@DonAmnesia Just take a look at Group B Rally cars to see an example of what happens when that is allowed.
@@DonAmnesia look at can ams porsche 917/30
Formula 1 isn't nearly as limited as indycar.
Thanks for the great comparison/video
Now I know why it's called Formula 1.😳
Interesting comparison.
The S sector after the pit straight, under the pedestrian bridge, is a sick place to sit down and watch the F1 go thru.
Even at slow, tire warming, pace they are faster than anything else you have seen.
jimdreves ???
You guys do know that indycar is faster than f1 in straight line speed right?
Synetear HAHAHA - no chance
Jason Vorhees look up the top speed dumbass
Great video my dude, do one on Indycar team liveries... theyre confusing as hell for us F1 fans as they change race to race in some occasions!
Stop comparing Indycar and F1. Indycar is just a competitor of Formula 2.
F1 front tyres are 5.1” wider and the rears are 4.5” wider than IndyCar tires. How much affect could this difference have on lap times? What if they swapped tires?
brillant video with all those comparisons it makes for a great understanding..
Super interesting! I have always wondered....particularly glad you included moto GP👍
Regardless of how much slower IndyCar is to F1 I think we will see a great race and I am interested to see how it play out. Also, by the time F1 reaches COTA the cars are much more developed and faster than they are earlier in the year. Meaning the lap times would be a little closer (not by much though) if say COTA was the second race of the season in F1 like it is in IndyCar.
But IndyCar can’t develop their car at all. So why does the fact that the IndyCar race is early in the season matter?
Not THAT much.
Some teams.... but say... the top... 5 teams... arent... Ferrari, uncharacteristically, were well off their Testing indicators in Melbourne... but RBR were not... nor were Mercedes Benz. Renault were, but HAAS and Racing Point were not.
Neither Renault nor Ferrari will take half a season to reach their zenith for this season.
Back marker teams, and mid of the midfeld and back, are not likely to be lap record contenders anyway... so I think the time between the Indy Race and F1 one, would maybe... MAYBE... account for a few tenths.... not even a second.
@@brandoncufr201 it doesn't matter for IndyCar but F1 cars are slower earlier in the season compared to later where the USGP in the F1 schedule. I admit it isn't by much though
@@Apis4 that is true and I agree it wouldn't be a big difference either maybe a second at most but the gap between F1 and IndyCar is still very big. I would be curious to see the gap if a modern F1 car ran on say the Indy speedway course but that probably won't happen.
@@tylerensminger The difference between the highest Top Speed on track of an Indy Car at Indy, and F1 Car on a GP circuit is about 10 kph. On an Oval this would be telling... without an ability to use their far superior acceleration, braking, and turning capabilities, the F1 would be slower.
Thanks for putting the work into this
Well F1 are allowed to freely develop. Indycars are speccars.
Speccars suck, if you are an engineer, like I am. It takes away half the fascination. But the racing would be great if Indycar had better driving standards. Sadly only 25% of the field are really decent drivers (by international standards, in the US of course the standard is much lower)
“Freely develop”
Mr cool Man Not freedom but more in the lines of they have more room to develop a car than In Indycar
Thomas John Solidum theyre still restricted in what they can do
just a random question: did something happen to the circuit Gilles Villeneuve between 2002 and 2006? asking because the pole times for this video at 0:52 are slower than what Montoya and Da Matta did in 2002 (about a 2 sec difference in both cases)
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think 2006 was the first year F1 had V8's instead of V10's. So that would likely be why.
Between 2002 and 2006 there were a few major rule changes that could explain this
2003 - Electronic antiskid systems were banned
2004 - Single engine to be used over the entire GP weekend
2005 - Single engine to be used for 2 entire GP weekends and no tire changes during the entire race
2006 - Only V8 engines can be used (or V10 of previous year with the power limited)
All these changes could have contributed in reducing the average top speeds in order to save engines and tyres along with the V8 instead of V10...
Source Wikipedia (french article)
fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoire_de_la_r%C3%A9glementation_de_la_Formule_1#Ann%C3%A9es_2000
I think it was just noting the LAST time, as in the MOST RECENT comparison opportunity.
@@blueguy12345 yeah but that doesn't explain why did the same thing happened in the indycar (champcar) side of things
@@Saturn185 As I said, it is comparing just the LAST TIME the comparison WAS possible.
You know that tracks get faster with time right.
They do, but overtime they also deteriorate and require resurfacing.
Cole Jones Yes but the Barcelona circuit got resurfaced 2017 and it is 3 seconds faster this year than last year
Tracks tend to get faster over a race weekend due to rubbering in. However over greater lengths of time, tracks develop bumps and cracks, which hinder lap times. So do the repairs. They therefore get slower and slower until they’re resurfaced, at which point they sometimes get faster and sometimes not, depending on the new asphalt compound.
@@callejarvholm Catalunya isn't 3 seconds faster after its resurface. F1 cars are faster this year plus testing times this year were faster as all teams put in more fast runs this year. Refer to Matthew's comment as thats more or less what I stated above.
meh if I want good racing Super Formula is faster than Indy but is still a spec series. The real comparison we need to make is f1 vs super formula
Even though I love F1 it was still cool to see Indy car racing at COTA and COTA needs more racing at the facility
Agreed! Different too
agree with you both. Let’s set up a road trip to COTA when this whole CV goes away!
A very very good and interesting video. Everyone does want a straight forward comparison between top racing series on the same track. Your videos are very very informative and very very clearly described.
Differing regulations give differing results, simple as. But that said, you want to go the fastest round it, you get an f1 car and leave the indycar in the dust
Interesting to see that they don't care about track limits and are still slower than even a Williams!
The problem is the yanks literally claim to have the fastest race cars in the world. If they did'nt speak shit like that, peaople would'nt really bother comparing
I guess I would be considered a Yank and I am F1 all the way. Please try to not lump a Country of this size into a single category.
just to be fair .. you should compare the fastest laps in race conditions (Lap record) for both Indycar and F1 .. this would put the time in 2019 for INDYCAR Classic to 1:48.8953 sec
9:00 didn’t a modded 919 beat Hamilton’s record at Spa?
Sure. But then the 2018 gp happend and f1 took it back with like a second. And then the 2019 gp happend and they went even faster.
I like the idea. But taking the race time from Lewis and comparing it to pole time of Indy car isn’t exactly ideal.
Why? It just shows how much faster F1 actually is
"when cota was new it had much more grip" I love your videos mate but please step away from the spliff have you seen the 2012 F1 race the circuit was covered in sand and dust the formula 1 cars couldn't stay on the circuit especially turn 19 bit like the indycars last weekend lol and I love both series but come on oh and by the way that's a f2 car you have on your thumbnail not an F1 car 😀
It's a Marussia from 2010 i think
Pol Reyes Hita its most certainly one of their cars. New circuits are very slick, a lot of them secret oil until properly used so there’s actually less grip in some circuits.
I was about to comment the same point...2012 new track no rubber...slower times
not to mention Alonso had paddle shifts while sebastian had an old school sequential that makes a big difference as well
F1 is for people who love watching the world's fastest purpose built circuit race cars.
IndyCar is for people who like to watch racing...
Maybe lots of fans really want to see the gap between FIA F2 and Indycar. But both series have never raced on a same track.
Falcon Heavy rocket does 11 kilometers per second on a curved 'track' from Cape Canaveral to Bermuda.
Where did you purchase those model cars from that you have on your book shleves?
Great video but it would have been interesting to add DPIs, GT3s, GT4s, TCRs and the Australian Supercars (they had a race there like 5 years ago)
V8 Supercars didn't run the full layout of COTA.
DPi is already represented with the Oreca, since they are basically LMP2 cars and the other classes would have been to much for one video, given the fact, that he wanted to focus on the 10 fastest machines around the track.
Only the LMP2, which as already said, was represented by the DPi car, the others just wouldn't be top 10.
Well done and effectively put together. You make a very effective point that the technical designs will have the major impact on overall performance. Dear me the electrics have made such differences. Thanks and well done
Can't wait for F-zero
Interesting stuff mate, thanks for the analysis!
Would be interesting too see top speed reached for that same list. The MotoGP bike may surprise some!
The only strong part of bikes: top straight speed…
But we are taking COTA… now let’s go to Isle of Man, TT… geez that is awesome!!!
And too damn dangerous.
Look for KZ2 championship videos: all the competitions described here are slow and boring in comparison to those “slower” but quicker Karts
i'm amused and happy you said 'Porsche' in the correct way. Normally english-speakers are missing the 'e' at the end :)
Wow, I don't think a IndyCar is fast enough to be used as safety car in F1 :)
Yup. The formula 1 car tires would literally freeze if they had to follow an IndyCar.
NOt living under a rock just living in europe where Indycar isnt that Famous.
So in other words the F1 cars are far more superior than any other race car . Well no surprise there . That's what F1 is all about getting the formula right in the first place way more technical than just going round in circles like the indi cars . Getting the formula just right is way complicated than you think . Chassis set up , fuel load , engine boost on the settings , qualifying mode is probly the fastest mode when fuel is light . Tyres choices ambient track temperature . Break valance . F1 cars are the most complex machines on the planet . There's a lot more technology in those cars than the indi cars or the lemans cars .
The thing about F1 is that there is no other racing car as engineered are a Formula One period, but on the other hand, they are also heavily restricted.
The saddest thing about Formula One is, when they switched to 6 cylinder turbo's, there was nothing more exiting then when a F1 was screaming down the track with it's 20,000 RPM v8/10's/12's.
What is the point of F1 having a full field. Just start Hamilton and Bottas and watch Bottas follow Hamilton around for a couple hours. Same result, Mercedes 1st and 2nd. Don't hate, you know it's true.
The philosophy in F1 is not only letting drivers fight against each other, but also enterprises fighting each others, so it came from time to time that an enterprise became dominant, especially when Mercedes is in the game, German engineering... ;)
ps. sorry for my English.
@@Jean-Pierre-Villard Germans are great engineers. Your English is great. I have a broad interest in all types of Motorsports, but I question how competitive F1 can be... It seems like it's been this way for a long time. What would you think of F1 adding an oval track to the schedule?
@@SS-kz7td Hello,
F1 have a lot of regulations but there is always a little bit room for interpretation and there is often a team where find the best interpretation, so few years ago the team Red-Bull was dominant, another few years before the dominant team was Ferrari, now it´s Mercedes. Every couple of years they change drastically the rules, so it´s like a new game with new chances for the other teams to find the perfect interpretation of the new rules. But there is definitely a problem now with Mercedes, their resources are simply to big compared to other teams, so i think F1 need a budget-limitation.
I love F1 but also IndyCar (and of course MotoGP), since the hybrid-era with their "fantastic" vacuum-cleaner-sound i love IndyCar even more, an oval track would be great but i don´t think that this gonna happen because of security questions, they would be so fast that almost every crash would kill some pilots, for West-Europeans today totally unimaginable, that would give drama over drama lol
Have a nice day (or night depending where You live) ;)
Thank you for this comparison!