How Fast Would Formula 1 Go at the Indy 500?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ค. 2024
- The Indianapolis 500 is one of the most prestigious racing events in the world, where the cars reach over 230 miles per hour and race nose to tail for 200 laps.
But what would happen if you put an F1 car on the grid? Would be able to go quicker?
We’ve done some research to find out.
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Indycars and Formula 1 cars look pretty similar. Both open-wheel formula cars, lots of downforce and both run turbocharged V6 engines. However, there are some pretty big differences.
Indycar is a spec series, meaning that all cars run the same Dallara chassis, the same aero package for each circuit and have the choice of two engines - Honda or Chevrolet. A bit like the Corvette from earlier!
[Cheeky mention - not required but would be a cool freebie]
Whereas, Formula 1 is a constructor championship. The cars are made by the teams, with only some components shared between the teams - like Williams using Mercedes engines and Haas running Ferrari components like the steering wheel.
Indycar run the series like this to save costs for the teams and encourage closer racing, meaning there are very limited opportunities to spend more money and gain an advantage over other teams.
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#Formula1 #IndyCar #Indy500 - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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What do you think? Would Indy win? Or Formula 1?
The fia need to change the rules...cuz look they are trying to implement the tech in road cars too
But let's keep road cars in their place and F1 in its place where it belongs
(Extremely quick)
Is this a reupload?
@@JoJoDo I was thinking the same thing, I swear I already saw this content in a previous upload.
Yep, a re-upload. A few videos got taken down, presumably for copyright infringement.
@@sdcraig i cant remember some shots
"Ovals are incredibly tricky to get right", that's because they only turn left 😂
Tell that to Alonso.
or right depends which way you go 😁😁
that was hilarious.
@Mabel With no power steering.
@Mabel no one said it was easy lol, why are you so salty? 🤦🏻♂️
Well, I say it again, maybe Red Bull should test it as they love their marketing! Great vid btw
But they don’t have an indycar sponsor right? Maybe Mclaren should do it?
Or Mclaren,they have both chategories
Why ? So they can be over rated in two different Motorsports ?
@@matthew-jy5jp ok man no need to be salty
That’ll go about as well as their stint in NASCAR.
You missed an important point here: F1 engines are NOT designed to run on an oval. You would need special lubrication systems to deal with the asymmetric loading. Just ask Ilmor - when F1 returned to the Indy road circuit in 2000, Hakkinens engine failed due to those unique stresses on the banked part of the circuit.
Actually sometimes f1 teams create special assymetrical cars for certain biased circuits (such as asymmetrical cooling and chassis aerodynamic shapes)
"Returned to the indianapolis road circuit"????? That was the first time they ran on that track!
I don’t think the loads are much different. The banking relieves a lot of lateral g’s and no one else seemed to have an issue with it. I’d take who or what teams blame for failure with a grain of salt.
f1 will beat indycar easily on a normal track, f1 is design to perfection when cornering, and there's already f1 vs indycar in official race and every f1 won 1.6 secs ahead
Exactly!
I think the top speed issue could be solved, by some modifications to the airodynamics and gearbox. But I have doubts that the engines could survive 800 km of running full throttle almost permanently.
You can tune down the engine and restrict the max RPM. Indy car is nowhere near the power F1 car generates.
@@piaskowski590 I dont know what they use today, but Indycars had also 800 bhp.
Reducing RPM in a F1 engine will also reduce its power a lot, and then its probably not fast enough anymore. F1 engines are just not designed to run full throttle for a long time. Even at some F1 tracks with long straights they are struggling with overheating. A large oval, where you can basically floor it the entire race, would be deadly for them I guess. But for a few laps they can reach the Indycar speed averages.
@@petebeatminister F1 has 1000+hp and engine can be tuned to replace most of the power to different RPM. F1 have also very low torque and all the power comes very late. With proper tuning and aero pack, F1 wouldnt even need to go full throttle on oval to outrun IndyCar. Its just budget and technology difference.
@@piaskowski590 It's not just the engine. The whole suspension would have to be modified to handle the high speed turns. Higher grip.
Yeah, American series are designed for 300 (for circuits and short ovals) to 500 (speedways) miles, while F1 is only going 200. Three different series going for 3 different things, and all great series :)
You'd have to severely restrict an F1 or Indy car to safely go around a track like Talladega (2.67 mile tri-oval with 33º banked corners). Not because the cars couldn't handle it, but because the *drivers* would black out from taking the corners at 250+ MPH. I'd love to see F1 or Indy at Bristol, though =D (half-mile oval, 36º banked corners).
A quick summation of this video. An F1 car could compete at Indy if it was modded to be an Indycar.
An F1 car could compete/beat Indycars at Indy if it was tuned to fit the oval speedway it's going to race in. FTFY.
It will still not be an Indycar since it would still not use the aero tunnel and several other tricks that Indycars have that are illegal in current F1 regs, on top of using a different chassis, PU, etc. entirely.
@@gerhardaryawardana72 the video even said that the F1 car would need different suspension. So the F1 car would need a complete different design. Like I said, if the F1 car was modded to be an Indy car.
@@backcountryme you would also want to get rid of the entire hybrid package. It’s basically dead weight and would result in Indy cars having a distinct horsepower advantage.
@@backcountryme yeah but F1 can go way above the indycar speccs.
To make things even
Give some extra buffed horses to the Indy car
This is either a re-upload or I'm having the biggest dejavu of my life.
same here
DEJA VU I'VE JUST BEEN IN THIS PLACE BEFORE
HIGHER ON THE STREET AND I KNOW IT'S MY TIME TO GO
CALLING YOU AND THE SEARCH IS A MYSTERY
STANDING ON MY FEET IT'S SO HARD WHEN I TRY TO BE ME WOOOOOOAH
Ditto
Same
Oh thank fuck i'm not the only one! As i was watching this i kept getting this uneasy deja vu feeling like i've heard and seen all these things before in exactly that order in this very channel. This is most likely a re-upload with a different title. The previous one i think was called something like "How fast f1 would be at an oval" or something like that.
I remember when Alonso raced at Indy, Daniel Riccardo was asked if he would ever do it, and his answer surprised me. He said, "ahh maybe Daytona one day, but Indy scares me."
this sorta proves that people who talk trash about oval racing just don't have the imagination or insight to understand how thrilling it is, for fans and for drivers. it is an all-out brawl at hyperspeed. the stakes are insane. you need nerves of steel and immense reaction time. much respect to Ricciardo for his honest reply lol
@@feastmode7931 Daytona in and IndyCar would be scarier. The track is bumpier. Indy has the smoothest surface in the world.
@@kg0173 -- good point. the banking + speed there in open-wheel cars is quite insane.
@@feastmode7931stakes are insane? Since when did turning left for 200 laps become insane? lol
@@gogreen_0 -- "tUrNiNg LeFt"
yeah man, driving 200 mph inches away from your competitors on a track that's banked steeper than a black-diamond ski slope... totally low stakes
it's a sport where one bad step of the gas pedal could cause a fatal crash, but yeah, tell me more about how it's low stakes!
As a former indycar mechanic, great job on the video!
Hamilton driving an Indy car: "My tires are gone"
*Hamilton takes the lead a lap later
Hamilton in indycar -" These drivers are too quick, Make a political statement so they feel bad and let me catch up"
@@Kyle86910 The joke being Indy car drivers being "too quick" XD
Hamilton: Bono my tires are dead!
Bono: Stay out. stay out
Hamilton: Ive used these tires for 20 laps. Why you keeping them on?
Bono: Were gonna check.
Bono after the finish line: GET IN THERE LEWIS
My right (turns) are gone.
F1 at Indianapolis brings up bad memories. As a kid, I remember trying to watch that race with my Dad and it turned into a 6 car sham of a race.
So it wasn't F1, so what was it instead?
well, better only 6 cars than more accidents
@@Markus-zb5zd I agree, but the FIA's stubbornness about adding a chicane to slow cars down and the way they handled it was just a mess. It sucked to watch and I can't imagine what it was like to be there watching it in person having spent your hard earned money to be there
@@matthiasice yeah but I don't blame the FIA raceday managment there,... you can't just change parts of the tracks without going through a lengthy reevalution process.
I think the fact that michelin did not have the chance to test anything on the resurfaced track was the biggest problem,... once raceday was there,... there were no good options.
@@Markus-zb5zd yeah, I get that. That was their argument at the time too. Either way, it was a debacle and was not a good look for F1
Both types of cars are gorgeous machines that are designed for two different types of tracks. And the speed they both can go is astounding! It is great to hear how and why each are designed. Fascinating.
Loved the detail your went into! I knew there was differences but never knew there was so many or how some were so drastically different. Thanks for doing this!
I swear I’ve seen this before
Maybe a re- upload
Same
It's a re-upload because of copyright in the original
Thank god because i thought i lost it
I thought I also saw a glitch in the Matrix. Glad it wasn't just me.
Those iPad drawing segments were actually impressive. Typically the whole segment is animated together including the hand to look like someone is drawing in realtime, but it's all part of the animation. The drawing segments in this video all seem authentic. Which if so, wow. That's a commendable amount of effort. 🙇♀️
Somebody has some graphic talent at Driver61 that's for sure :)
They are. They use the Concepts app.
Definitely real Based on things like reflections, shadows and glares.
Wasn’t expecting much but you did a nice job on the video. I am the Crew Chief for the current Indianapolis 500 all time track record holder. (Luyendyk 1996 239.26 mph unofficial, 237.498 mph official) The record has stood now for 27 years. One of the things that is not talked about is the experience at running at this track. No formula 1 team has the experience to “just” make it happen. Our track records were a compilation between myself and my engineer of 36 years of experience at the Indy 500. We developed some “secret stuff” over many years, and it all came together that day of qualifying. It would be very hard for any Formula 1 engineers to make any car go fast at Indy without the experience. And a quick note, maybe not 300mph, but on our 239 mph lap, a Little know fact is we broke 250 miles per hour on that lap going into turn 3 on the PI data…..250.216 to be exact. Won’t see that for a while again.
Here to say r.i.p your teams record in practice lol. Good luck this year I'll be in turn 3 with the peasants. First time coming ever!
Thank you, this is very interesting and insightful.
You mean to tell me that an f1 team that has to take time to design, develop, test and produce a car suited to a particular driver, then race that car with differing set ups for 69 differing configurations of track design with differing weather conditions all over the world. Wouldn't be able to figure out how to make a car go fast around a circle for 500 laps, is that what you are saying here?
@@richardtree6645 I’m not saying there isn’t a lot of brilliant engineers in F1, but they only do one thing…road courses. They use a basic setup that repeats at each track. An oval setup is a completely different monster. It takes time to develop and learn as many things do not behave as engineering would suggest because the race car setup starts so out of balance from the start. We did many road courses in Indycar and they were pretty easy setups. (My cars have won 7 road courses) Indy is a complete different monster. If you want a reference point, look at Porches indycar in 1990, they came to Indy with a budget three times bigger then Penske, more brilliant design and development engineers then the series had ever seen in one place, and they qualified 2 cars at 10th and 21st, finishing 18th and 23rd. They also though it was easy to come in and dominate. They quit Indycar after that.
does the name walter röhrl and pikes peak ring a bell? I bet a F1 team would indeed just make it happen. on the other hand you americans are good at going straight and fast
That was a fun, theoretical analysis. On the point of the formula one tires being larger and I have to say that it it's not that simple.
They couldn't use the tires that they normally do because they wouldn't last on the oval. Remember when they ran the F1 Grand Prix on half of the oval and the tires blew up? So to run an F1 car there we would need different tires, maybe the same ones that Indie cars use.
It’s old news now but I still shake my head in amazement every time I’m reminded of the fact that the current generation of F1 engines can wring over 1000hp from a 1.6L engine. Just amazing.
In the ‘80s F1 cars were making 1200+ hp from 1.5L engines with no hybrid nonsense.
@@Xaluber Controlled explosion. Honda even said that they were getting closer to getting 1 hp per cc. Those engines wouldn't stand a chance to todays technology though. Cars are faster and are so reliable. They hardly breakdown.
@@Xaluber yeah... but they ware a "one stint engines" you know ;)
at the time they mount a qualification grade tyres and engine and the end of quali session that engine was all gone, toasted...
Not sure what the Dallara runs now, but the Reynard and the Lola days we had adjustable diff pressure from the cockpit, roll bars etc adjustable from the cockpit (Lola had hydraulic ARB), the wings also had the quick turn adjusters that F1 copied after a few years. This was all to be able to keep the car stable as the fuel load changed (Methanol = uses twice as much as petroleum) and the tyre wear (brutal on say Daytona or at the Brickyard. As for the suspension, they have a separate set for Long Ovals, Short Ovals and Road Course.
Great vid. I’ve always wondered how this would go. You’ve provided a fairly comprehensive presentation. Thanks!
They limit the top speed of Indycars to protect the tyres. The faster a wheel/tyre is spun the more it wants to tear itself apart. Mario Andretti once said to run at 260+ would substantially increase the risk of driver fatality.
Mario's statement was not limited to tire wear. There is also the more important fact that those levels of increased speed increase the dynamics of what an error and resulting impact with the wall will do to destroying the car, and driver. As speeds increase, the forces involved increase by the square value of those increases, not a mere linear increase. So a 30 mph increase in speed that is a 13% increase translates to a 169% increase of force when contacting any stationary object.
@@cdjhyoung Not how percentages works. Not how force works. It translates to about 27% increase in energy
@@lucasng4712 The trouble with doing math calculation in your head as you are also typing. You are, of course, correct.
Keep in mind that a F1 car at Indy will have less than half the wing surfaces it needs for road courses, as it won't need to turn so tight and at Indy speeds much smaller wings will produce the necessary downforce. The result is a F1 car much faster in a straightaway than it is even with DRS.
yes, but the engine would blow up quite quickly. it’s not used to being redlined for 45 minutes straight
F1 would engineer a car that would leave an Indycar in the dust. Apples and oranges. Not taking anything away from Indycars but not in the same league as an F1 car.
@@brucemackenzie4952 that's the stupidest comment I've read. "F1 would engineer a car", so you're admitting that a current F1 can't compete with an Indy car on an oval. They're each best at what they do, I don't know why you have to suck off F1 so much.
@@brucemackenzie4952 "Would engineer..." Yadda yadda yadda. No, you get F1 as it is right now vs the IndyCar. That's it.
@@WebShaman01 F1 as it is right now adjusts everything according to track. So…
I think there is a bit more freedom of aero set up in Indycar now with teams running different elements and such. Indycar is criminally underrated. Followed F1 for 30 years and I have to say - Indycar is the most entertaining racing on earth.
I did the HVAC at Ilmor engineering for 6 years. Listening to Indy engines on their dynos all day was great.
There was a time when the Indianapolis 500 WAS COUNTED as a Formula I race - but very few actual Formula I cars ever made the trip over from Europe.
Reference Jimmy Clarke, and the "Race of Two Worlds" as a few of the cases of F1 cars and drivers competing vs Indy Cars.
Also, the Indianapolis Motor Speedway was the host for the US Grand Prix for a few years, though they build an add-on to the track to do so - it wasn't the standard Indy semi-oval track.
Weird, didn't I watch this video already? Was it re-published? It's a great video, totally happy to watch it again. :)
Same here... I was with some Deja Vu feeling... There were a video last week regarding F1 Tires also, that I'm pretty sure I have seen before here... but for some reason the videos are gone
Not sure this is addressed in the description or not but I assume there's a correction that was made? Can't figure out what it is though
thought the same i searched for the vid but couldn’t find it I think it’s reuploaded or som
it was republished bc f1 took it down
Yeah I have seen this video before.
This is amazing. Great job. I love IndyCar and F1 , both these series are awesome.
Amazing video. Love how you discuss how complicated an oval race can be. To me being a fan of Motorsport. Each one takes a special kind of driver and crew to master. Makes having a variety of Motorsport to watch fun.
Thats why Mario Andretti is the greatest driver ever it didn't matter if it was Formula One, Indy or Daytona in stock cars the only man to every win in all 3 he was a favorite to in any race he was in on any circuit
FWIW, I'm a longtime Indy resident & racing fan. In 2004, I ended up working as a flagger (marshal) for that year's US GP on the Indy road course. In Friday practice, Schumacher was hitting 250+ mph down the front straight. I know a lot has changed since then in both F1 & Indycar, but thought the info might be of interest to some.
That is odd since the fastest recorded F1 top speed on a racetrack is 231.4 mph, there are some reports Bottas hit 234 in 2016 but that has not been confirmed. I also live in Indy and right next to the track and have driven stock cars at full speed (well 185 speed limited being honest) around the track and it is crazy knowing Indy and F1 cars are running 40 to 50 mph faster with an open cockpit. F1 cars are just not designed to run high top speeds with the downforce they require to handle the sharp turns and accelerate like they do. Besides, F1 would have to have an engine that could last at those revs for 3 hours or more, not just 45 minutes and 60 or 70 laps. Indy engines are designed to do just that so us comparing them without modding them (which then no longer makes them an F1 or Indy car) is a moot ~ fixed for the grammer police) point.
Lol, nonsense. You confused mph with kph.
@@indyguy5570 A "moot" point.
That’s just simply not true though…
BULLSHIT
F1 did go to the Indy 500. From 1950-1960 the Indy 500 was part of the World Driver's Championship (old name for Formula 1 World Championship).
Back then the F1 cars were too slow to be competitive against the Indy cars at the time. A match race was staged at Monza back then, and the Indy Roadsters that came over absolutely destroyed the F1 cars of the time.
Ferrari built and tested a car for a potential Indy 500 run in the 80s (or early 90s, can't remember) but abandoned the idea after testing.
This video is not intended for comparation between F1 and Indy. It just tells us the difference between those 2 as results of different goal and different environment
I’ve had the pleasure of attending both F1 and INDYCAR races starting in the late 70’s. I enjoy both series for the differences. One for the unbelievable technology the other for the competitiveness. Too many talented drivers are never able to shine in F1 given the lack of competitive drives available. INDYCAR addresses that issue and it shows. Driver’s may start on the front row one week and the next be twelfth on the grid. I enjoy both series
You have to remember that an F1 car would probably need to have its monocoque and crash structures beefed-up, which would add weight. After studying various accidents over the last few years, like the ones suffered by James Hinchcliffe and Sebastien Bourdais at Indy, additional protection has been added to the cockpit sides to protect the drivers (Hinch was impaled through the thigh by his own suspension and nearly bled out). This adds a decent amount of weight in addition to the full windscreen.
Without that, I'm not sure you'd find many F1 drivers who would want to trim out an F1 car and run it around Indy during qualy.
best comment so far, this cars are si different in their structure that ia almost impossible predict. I respect both series as they are the pinnacle of motorracing as a whole.
There are a handful of ex-formula-1 drivers in the series currently. Romain Grosjean just signed with Andretti for next season
@@davidritter8267 I'm convinced that Grosjean is either malicious or drives drunk!
@@davidritter8267 Grossjean is building quite the reputation of ticking other Indy drivers off with his crashes…he had the same issue in F1 it seems
@@davidritter8267 There ARE a handful of ex-F1 drivers but statistically it has NOT given them an edge over Indy-raised colleagues. An F1 fan who doesn’t understand Indy may point out ‘driver x won these races, you see F1 drivers dominate everywhere they go!’ And I’m sure that this ignorance makes them quite happy, but followers of Indy know better and one of the main differences between the series is that you NEVER KNOW who will be on the podium each and every race whereas it’s a foregone conclusion that unless something happens, the top 3 are fairly predictable in differing orders.
I really like the drawing descriptors. I actually didn't really know the differences between indy and F1, and never thought to look it up. As always, your content is fantastic.
I liked you explanation of the difference between F1 and Indy cars. Remember that back in the early 1960’s, Lotus worked with Ford Motor to develop the rear engine race car.
What people who only watch F1 don't seem to realize is that oval racing is about racing other drivers rather than racing a perfect racing line. Your line changes every single lap when you're surrounded by half a dozen other drivers. It still takes an immense amount of skill
Imagine doing that in a real circuit like an f1 driver...
@@Lucalegenda Plenty of open wheel drivers have switched to nascar and haven't been anything special, I don't have to imagine anything
@@drumline17 In their prime? LoL
At 5:46 it's not the steering offset, it's due to the tire stagger - for superspeedways Indycars have right-side tires larger in diameter than left-side tires. If the pilot will keep the steering wheel straight, the car will intend to turn left.
Pilot? Indy cars can fly?!
@@ryans756 "Pilot" = "race driver" in many european languages. Hell , it's even used for mountain bikers.
@@falinestixiaolong9691 Don't give me that shit.
To be clear: IndyCar aero does offer a variety of wickers and wing extensions that teams can use to tune setups so there is some variability in aero configurations from car to car.
A good video done fairly & accurately. We'll all on the same team: Indy, F-1, IMSA, NASCAR, Saturday night track, ...
Around 2000, Champ Cars raced on the F1 circuit in Montreal the year after the engines were turned down to prevent speeds getting out of hand. Dario Franchitti said if they'd brought the previous year's Champ Car they'd have made F1 look pretty embarrassed.
lol
Holy shit, I just now realized that when I was at the Indy 500 from 200-2010 I saw F1 drivers in person and had no idea! As a new fan to F1 I’m just now learning all the lesser known drivers but I remember hearing the name Schumacher when I was younger in the grand stands. Now I know that I saw the king himself race. Just wish I knew it at the time
I think the engines would just overheat
Good point. Having an engine running at top rpm's for 3 hours straight needs special designs.
Didn't even think of that, good point
I don't. They'd make minor adjustments. Heck, the engines are at full chat 80% of the time anyway.
Lower rpm, higher gear ratio will fix that
No, they would have so much air at the those speeds to cool the engines, it would be easier to cool with a few adjustments
Idk if you read comments but I’ve been loving the content even more recently. Keep up the good work!
I would love to see a pre-hybrid F1 car run the Indy 500!
the early 00s V10s man🤩🤩
@@timonbubnic322yes the good cars
That was fantastic! Love your videos. Keep up the great work.
I'm an F1 fan who has never watched Indycars, but those Indycar races look wild and exciting as hell.
It has it's moments but they could make the series much more appealing. Only the diehards of the diehard race fans i know pay attention to it at all....however the best pure racing that i have probably ever seen in my life was the 2015 MavTv 500 from California, that race from start to finish is balls to the walls.
@@JacobStevens13 That’s not true I know tons of people that follow the series , and only a few that could be called ‘diehard’. I loosely follow along and I have to say I’ve been enthralled every time I’ve watch a race, although mostly I stick to F1 (for now, that could be changing as Indy pricks my attention)
I appreciate that you also mentioned the speed in metric system
I wish everyone used the metric system. It’s much better
@@syndicategaming1668 no argument there...yet it's never caught in over here....
Would be great to see this reviewed again with the 2022 F1 spec!
Another thing overlooked here is the fragility of F1 Cars versus the robustness of IndyCars. There have been may accidents in IndyCar where the car or cars continued on, that would have retired an F1 car.
Indy cars while ostensibly appearing similar to an F1, are really a different beast, as they have to be able to survive a reasonable 'friendly' punt into a superspeedway wall and live to get back to the pits - while if the same thing happened to an F1, it would end in shower of carbon fibre and titanium confetti
indy is like a clas 2 category of F1. they are like f1 cars from 90s. suspension jump a lot giving sensation of speed. make me remember airton sena. F1 run so smoth that seams they are going slow
Maybe you should watch f1 and see how much pressure the cars are under compared to Indy 500 cars. Not an argument just a friendly idea :)
@@electricowl3034 Indy cars while ostensibly appearing similar to an F1, are really a different beast, as they have to be able to survive a reasonable 'friendly' punt into a superspeedway wall and live to get back to the pits - while if the same thing happened to an F1, it would end in shower of carbon fibre and titanium confetti
Remember the one time Nigel Mansel won the F1 title and then came to the US and won the Indy Car title?
Two different beasts and he tamed them BOTH. Then he got bored with Indycar (I assume) and went back to F1.
@@josebrown5961 Well he is a champion after all…of motorsports as a whole…not just F1. Fernando is the same kind of animal and Seb has talked of racing the Indy500…I think he should take some
Time off from that green tractor of his and go on a Motorsport vacation…come back to F1 sometime later refreshed…maybe with a Triple Crown on his head wouldn’t that he something. He’s talked of racing the 500 before AND LeMans
Next year ground effect will finally be making a return to F1 in some way at least.
A lot of people don’t know that in the 50s the Indy 500 was on the f1 circut
This is a sneaky-excellent video, my goodness: It's not just the content, which is gob-smacking, but also the construction of the narrative. Really tight, really well crafted. When it was over I was surprised that it only ran nine minutes but that's a compliment -- seemed impossible that I could have smoothly gotten this much technical information out of an understandable video in that amount of time. Bravo.
He got the point wrong
F1 cars are just on another level, but Indy is still insane
I like Formula 1 for its ability to throw money at a problem and figure it out, however I like that IndyCar make drivers work harder on basically the same machines. Apples to oranges, but its all racing, and that why we love it.
They work harder? But there's no right turns.. there's no tight corners... in fact they only turn left 😭
@gogreen_0 You're thinking of NASCAR. I said IndyCar. Look it up. They race on circuits and ovals.
@@FastFerrari82 "You're thinking of NASCAR. I said IndyCar. Look it up. They race on circuits and ovals." So does NASCAR. Anyway, people like @gogreen_0 who think "only turn left" means it's not a skillful endeavor are idiots.
EVERYONE at the top of a major racing series works hard--especially series that aren't endurance races but have LONG races nonetheless.
Great presentation! Inforative and really well done!! 👍🏻😃
As someone who has experienced multiple Indy 500's from the pits and who has actually driven a car at speed around the track (admittedly not an Indy car, only a pace car) my comment would be to ask if an F1 car could actually >go< 500 miles? The longest F1 circuit currently is the Sochi Autodrome at just over 192 miles - less than half of an Indy 500. So while speed is a consideration, endurance is a large factor and potentially a much larger indicator of engineering excellence than raw speed. As they say at Indy "You don't have to lead every lap, just the last one."
Edit/Add: While not a consideration when only looking an automotive engineering, the Indianapolis 500 track itself is much more fan friendly. Many seats have the ability to see the whole track and that can be much more exciting for a fan rather than getting only a 2-3 second blur of a car as it passes by your seat in an F1 race.
It would be pretty interesting to see one American F1 race on an oval track and how well the F1 cars teams could adapt to race on it.
Of all available tracks, Indy might be the best fit, due to the lower banking. Daytona or Talledega would be more fun to watch though.
Pretty sure the drivers would get bored, doing four identical turns for 200 laps
None of the front running team would willingly want this. The F1 cars are just not designed for the oval that it'd ruin their car's overall reliability significantly over the course of the season. If this is forced on the F1 cars, I believe what we'd see is a race of dialed down performances, and probably then people will say after the race that F1 cars are proven worse than Indycars.
@@edwardking9359 nah bc they'd have to figure out how to do pack racing without any contact since it's gonna be inevitable that there will be a big one
Two different open wheel flavors....
I likes em both👍🏻🏁
What a fantastic and detailed video!!! Nice work, mate
Would love to see this video remade after the 2022 COTA with F1 reintroducing the venturi floor tunnels.
Thanks, that was a great analysis and very educational as well!
The better question would be "Could an F1 team succeed on a Indy Car teams budget?"........lol.
They couldn't even get out of their own garage on an IRL budget.
McLaren is literally in Indycar right now.
@@fighterck6241 I didn't say operate in Indy Car, on a Indy Car budget. Have the F1 teams, in F1, operate on a Indy Car budget. A lot of the cost reduction is in the spec chassis and engines. It might be McLaren, but they are bound by the same rules as the rest of the teams.
@@NewbombTurk. Well, if everyone in F1 was in the same boat, then yes, definitely. Obviously, one F1 team couldn't survive on an IndyCar budget if another was still spending 100s of millions. As was said, the principal cost reduction is from Indy being a spec series. I'd be interested to know if IndyCar budgets would ever get as high as F1 if it had the same build your own chassis and build/source your own engine rule.
yes it can. F1 teams have best engineers working on the cars for years. Also, they update car regulations and designs every 2-3 years.
Driver61 answering the questions we didn't know needed asking! Great video again.
Great view on current state of the art open wheelers. Didn't Colin Chapman take an asymetrical F1 car to the Indy 500 one or two years? Didn't do too well on the first attempt but won on the second, the first rear engined car to win the Indy 500!
I think the car was a DNF the first year for reasons other than chassis design (transmission failure?). In the 1960's, F1 could cross over to Indy with minimal design adjustments. I don't think the same would be true today.
Indeed 1961 when Chapman's Cooper Climax was driven by SirJack Brabham (A real World Champion.)
@@flamingfrancis I'm pretty sure that car builder Colin Chapman would have been racing his own Lotus in 1961, not his competitor's Cooper, but I might be wrong.
I did an online indy500 and it was exhausting. Idk how these guys do it. I wasn’t even under allot of pressure because i was last cuz somebody did a Maldonado and went for a gap that wasn’t there.
Got in game Indy 500, in Amiga 500, 401 Km/H (249,17 miles/ H). I was a master in balance and tires, the angle of the tires, etc...
"As is" an IndyCar would smoke an F1 car on an oval. The down force, hp, etc are not the issue, the issue is the set-up: weight jackers, steering mods, and left turn only camber settings; those things are massively important to lap times on any oval. This is before talking about the experience advantage the IndyCar guys would have on oval driving techniques.
However, the "ifs" must be allowed to the Indycars as well. Do you really believe that Honda could not dial up more power if restraints were lifted?
right I mean take the power plant out of the f1 put it in the Indy. I agree fully
He is British and clearly biased towards F1.
well if you look at the top speed record of F1 it is on baku in the narrow wing time of F1 with over 378km/h for valterri bottas
and this was with way more downforce then the even negative front wing they use on indy. i would say that when one team just invests a couple of days for aero they will beat it verly easy
you’re naive
@@lorenzoabanes6351 why? Because the facts dont fit your narrative?
@@franskamstra2728 f1 cars aren’t able to compete, an indy car can easily do 240 mph, still faster than f1
@@franskamstra2728 and when you add that up over 500 laps, thats a big advantage for indy
@@lorenzoabanes6351 like I said. 378 (speedtrap) and 385kmh on baku with decent downforce because its a streek circuit. If they add a lower downforce setup they will go even over 400
This was a terrific analysis. thank you.
The Indycar is swiss army knife of racing cars as it deals with the road/street course and then the short ovals and the super ovals which require different set ups and downforce packages. Even with similar engines, the F1 cars would have to change their aero package and those engines are not tuned for sustained top speeds.
It’s a bit like saying “would an Indy car beat an F1 car at Monaco?”. Even trimmed out for a street circuit it wouldn’t stand an earthly.
No Indy car would get close to an F1 car on a street circuit. In fact it wouldn't even get past qualifying as the rules state that the last qualifier must be no more than 107% of the fastest. In the comparison for the Circuit of the Americas the fastest Indi car was 108.6% and so would not be allowed to start the race. At Monaco where the sheer horsepower is so extreme for F1 cars the difference would be closer to 115%.
However all of this is not comparing apples and apples its not even comparing apples with another fruit. The difference between F1 and Indy Car is like comparing a Premier League team to a University side, one is professional the other is an enthusiastic amateur. F1 is backed and supported by some of the biggest and technically advanced companies on earth. There is a reason why the big companies are not interested in IndyCar its armatures playing for fun; ad I am not being anti-American because if the big American companies got involved in it the balance would change.
@@mikeorgan1993 Indycar was huge in the 80s and early 90s, but the organization had infighting and split into two series from 1996-2008, leading to a major decline for both series (Nascar's mega-popular era during this period didn't help either). After the 2008 reunification, it's taken time to regain momentum back into Indycar, but I think they've got it back, and are on the way up.
@@mikeorgan1993 It would be better if you erase the nonsense that you have written because you only make a fool of yourself
@@mikeorgan1993 Maybe not Anti-American, but you sure come off as a smug know-it-all.
What I find most extraordinary is the enormous technical sophistication of these machines, using every possible advantage of physics and engineering to get milliseconds of improvements.
Sir Jack Brabham drove his underpowered Cooper Climax F1 car at Indy in 1961, qualified and came 9th! First time a mid engined car competed at Indy, didn't take long for front engined cars disappear off the grid....
I appreciate the video, it was well thought out and put together. Clearly very knowledgeable and well explained. I do have issue with the what F1 could do "if"... That is far from the question of what is. You could always give Indy cars the opportunity to adjust for F1 rules, what then? Put the 2 on the race course, who wins with their respective rules?
I think he implies that F1 teams are more likely to be able to adjust themselves to any rule because they're generally more wealthy than average Indycar teams
Indeed, that's silly. Everybody could beat anybody if they chose to adjust.
I appreciate how you give Indycar respect in the comparison. It's easy to just say F1 would dominnate.
@Josh Alfirenko they wouldnt fuk overrated f1
If the F1 car was rebuilt with a hundred million dollars they could compete. Okay, let's just take an F1 and run it. So how would that work?
You’re forgetting a major factor, indycar is purposely leaving performance on the table to make the the cars cheaper for the teams. They do this so the small teams have a shot (unlike F1) to add a whole lots of competitiveness to the races. The problem with teams like Ferrari, Red Bull, and Mercedes spending hundreds of millions of dollars is that the smaller teams without that kind of almost unlimited budget don’t have a shot an getting podium. So if indycar allowed more change they could adapt to be SO mush faster than they already are. You bring up the point of F1 being able to adapt to speedways and ovals if they bend the rules, so why not say the same about indycar bending the rules to adapt to road circuits?
so F1 is a bit like baseball?
@@frankpienkosky5688 F1 is EXACTLY like baseball. Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes are just like the Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers. The only difference is that in baseball, every once in awhile, a team like the Royals or Rays or Indians (f*** that Cleveland Guardians "woke" bullshit) can get to the World Series, and from there, anything can happen. In F1, those smaller teams have no shot.
@@russs7574 took the words right out of my mouth. It’s literally “who has the biggest budget”, it’s entertaining to watch but in no way is it a “best driver always wins” sport.
Yes, I thought the same. The video seemed clearly biased to F1.
Now in 2022 everyone got a budget of like 150 millions, imagine that to spend in crashes and development
In the sixty's Lotus came to the Indy 500 with basically their F1 car and won, even with rear engines. It changed Indy car for ever.
ANd then the Turbine 'Silent Sam', then Colin Chapman got together with Andy Granatelli and made the trio of lotus 56 turbines. They ALMOST won but for a mechanical failure. But that alone, caused Indy to ban them and the 4WD setup they used.
I think one issue that you could have mentioned is race pace. In Monza spec, cars can hit nearly 350kph, but cars from behind slip streaming can go 360+ easily. Another issue is fuel. Not only do Indy cars use about 1/3 more fuel per lap, they have less power as well, which will be a factor in the race. Indy cars have to come in to refuel within 35 laps, where as a F1 car with a full tank of fuel will easily last over an hour, and do about 100 laps. Sure it makes no sense to do a 100lap stint on the same tires, but given how much downforce F1 cars have, a set of hard tires should last pretty well.
I would love to see an oval race in an F1 season, maybe not every year, but once in a while to shake things up and to give the fans something new to see. I doubt that they would do it, the logistics as you've laid out might not be worth the return but it would be really interesting to see.
Those F1 guys seem to scared of those speeds and the corners without runoff areas. Too afraid they will destroy their millions of dollar cars or something. But, yes F1 should totally run an oval!
@@GDAY-GAMES "seem scared of those speeds and the corners without runoff areas" have you heard about monaco, or baku?
@@ramiroluquez3419 yes, sure. They are not hitting 200+ mph.
@@GDAY-GAMES they do in baku
There is a sparsely used banking at Monza they could use. It was used when F1 would invite Indycars to race with them.
if F1 cars tried to run the Indy 500 they would run out of fuel... they would need refuelling to make the distance. Also they may have a bit more of an issue making a low drag setup as they are wider and higher which means increased frontal area - a big contributor to drag. The length will not help either. The current Pirelli tyres might not be designed for the continuous higher speed running either.
Really? Even with a Monza setup
@@mohammeded-dahbi7603 look as some pics of the indycars in the indy 500 (not the other courses) - they have next to no wings. F1's monza setup would be significantly more draggy.
Yeah basically a really good setup for an F1 car on an oval would just be modding it until it progresses to an Indy car. It’s like comparing apples and oranges.
I don't understand your comment. An F1 car is much more efficient than an Indycar, doing over 4.5 miles/ US gal compared to the 2mpg of the Indy car. The F1 cars do ~305km per race without refueling using 110kg (liters) maximum.
In the Indy 500 the cars stop 5 or six times per race, An F1 car to cover that distance would only need 2 stops.
@@winterknight4176 that’s the problem - F1 cars are not set up for refuelling. They can’t do it without specialised equipment attached while in the pits. It would take a major redesign to allow for refuelling while in a race. I.e for all intents and purposes they can’t be refuelled during racing. So would not even be able to finish the Indy500.
Also without the regen from heavy braking, their fuel use would look a lot different. The electric drive would be useless as their batteries that are usually charged by braking and they other forms of energy recovery while not going maximum speed would never be used, so the batteries never get recharged during Indy500. Their fuel use would also be higher than an indycar due to higher drag - their frontal area is larger, they are longer. F1’s don’t run at 400km/hr continuousl (350km/hr max for short periods). Indycar a do. That additional speed has a massive effect on fuel use.
One thing i just remembered for this video is fuel. Since the distance F1 races is typically around 300 kilometers per race, it's unlikely that F1 would have the fuel to compete in something like the Indy 500 (Indy 300 might be possible). They would need larger fuel tanks or refueling introduced.
Right. And Indy 500 miles is nearly triple that distance at around 805km! Formula one cars must refuel, or compete in the Indy 300 instead.
i think the big difference at the end is
as good as an f1 car can be at indy car
it takes a lot more money to be that good compared to the regular indycars
Summarizing: Formula Indy: Best pilot wins! - Formula 1: Best car wins!
Not correct. Raikkonen hardly had the best machines, but he often achieved some of the best results.
Naw, more like Indy: Best driver wins.....F1 Most money wins.
@@russs7574 Yes, let's ignore that Iceman had some of the best results in some of the worst cars he drove.
Then How is it possible that Max Verstappen wins the 2021 F1 World Championship?
Re-upload?
id like to see a no rules "when it comes to the car" year where the developers can do anything they want to get as fast as they can
Before I watch the video: the hybrid system could only generate power braking for the pit lane so they'd go from 1,050bhp to 850bhp and thermal efficiency basically returns to the 30% mark from 50%. The aero is designed for track racing...though teams make special Monaco packages (inc. longer steering arms) so a Monza-esque package isn't unrealistic. The tires, however, aren't designed for a constant 230mph, more lateral stress from cornering, no banking. I imagine they would need weekend-specific tires. Regarding fuel flow ..I'm not aware of Indycar limits but, so long as they matched one another...though F1 uses turbos...not sure if Indycar does and turbos can get away with smaller blocks while achieving the same power... basically: it depends. Let's see what you've got to say...
This makes me want a formula 1 race at a small track like the Bristol motor speedway. Someone would *probably* get hurt, but it would be fun
💀
Not at Bristol but Dover. th-cam.com/video/37Kpsi8oxvo/w-d-xo.html
Money buys speed, power & performance. F1 has more of it. If ovals were a part of F1, they'd be faster because first sentence.
Go much faster and you just die. The IndyCars are capable of going much faster on the oval than they already do, just not safely.
@@James-vj5hz F1 cars are also slowed down for safety.
@@James-vj5hz that's the exact thing people said, when they were breaking 200 mph.
@@mindtricky that might be true but the biggest difference is that in f1 at virtually any track there is basically no danger of hitting fans. Its one thing to limit a car to save on engine life. Its another to limit a car because if you dont it can kill 30 people in the stands. In speedway racing there are fans basically at the edge of the racetrack. Indy cars are severely neutered to try and keep the cars from flying into the stands and killing a bunch of people. Which is why they have been running pretty much the same speeds for 30+ years now.
@@tadroid3858 33 cars going 230 mph, inches from each other is different than 33 cars going 180 mph, inches from each other. Lewis Hamilton said himself that he will never do the 500, said it was too dangerous. Romain Grosjean who currently races in Indy won't do oval races cause of the danger. Just look up videos of indycars crashing.
F1 cars ran at Indy on the road course that included a partial lap around the oval. The tires could not hold up. They had to put a chicane on the oval because they were afraid of the speed. The pole qualifiying speed this year was 234 mph. Indycars could go faster but they have been restricting their speeds for 25 years due to safety concerns and the human body being able to handle the g forces in the relatively flat turns.
the tires wouldn't hold up because of the artificial grooving that they put on the pavement, Bridgestone tires could handle it since they already knew about the grooves
This was top notch presentation. Thanks. Keep rollin.
I think it’s also worth pointing out that F1 cars get way better fuel economy and have larger fuel tanks, meaning if they were able to quickly refuel during the race then they could gain a large advantage. Obviously the obsolescence of the hybrid system would play a role but I can’t imagine it would change the advantage.
Even without electric motor, the mechanical engine is about 100hp more powerful than the indycar engines
@@verticalpenguin3495 It would still get nerfed if they were required to run the same boost pressures. The Indy V6 makes 700 ish HP at full road course boost, but get restricted on oval tracks to 550-625 hp depending on super speedway or short oval.
I would love to see a long oval exhibition race between an F1 an Indycar and Nascar Cup car.
IndyCar would win, the stock car would get second, the F1 car wouldn't survive. It'd either run out of fuel or the engine would blow after holding redline for hours straight.
Inside info makes for a more exciting race. Thanks!
U should remake this video for the modern cars in terms of the underfloor. I’d be curious to know how the cars under the 2022 regulations stack up
Why do I feel like I’ve watched this before
Bruh I just realized how similar this video is to WTF1’s video
Yea same it seems so similar
I had the same thought 😂
F1 took it down
@@user-kf5cg6ln3l ohhh really?
F1 cars in Monza last year were reaching 360kmph. I think they could very easily reach the 390-400kmph that they have to reach in order to compete against the Indy cars. Just a new aero package and gears and it's done. The hybrid system woud have a minor role but still could be recharged when in a slipsteam and deployed when the driver wants to overtake.
straightline not turning 90 degrees with cars all around them. Big difference between the two.
@@saber-jocky3436 it doesn't matter. If indycars can go arround those corners flat out with the oval aero package an F1 can do it too very very easily. They would only need some special tyres made to sustain the lateral forces and thats it.
That's like saying a k20 Honda could be the fastest drag car...Just add turbos, drag slicks and a new gearbox and it's done.
@@polviaortega3709 Spending 90% at full throttle around Monza is much less stressful on an engine that spending 90% a redline for 500 miles.
@@danielhenderson8316 F1 engines have more power than Indy engines. If you put an engine mapping on a F1 to produce the same power as Indy engines then there would be no problem in spending time on redline... An F1 engine brought down to 700hp would be chillin basically...
I am from Indiana and was born and raised in Indianapolis. I've been to qualifying, carb day and the race probably a dozen times in my life. The problem with modern Indy car (as well as Nascar) are the restrictions in design, power plant and other inhibitions that defeat the entire objective of racing. That is to go as fast as possible.
The Indy cars still go remarkably fast around the speedway. How much faster could you go? 240 mph on the straight is blistering fast. Any faster and every crash the cars would turn into an airplane. Every year or 2 someone would die, either a driver or a fan would get hit.
Best video on this topic I have seen. Kudos.
Even though this is a reupload it's still good
Rewatched it again happily lol