DON'T BUY THE ATOMOS NINJA V, V+ or ULTRA
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ส.ค. 2023
- The Atomos Ninja V, Ninja V+ and Ninja Ultra are not for MOST people. This is why you should avoid buying them and look at using what your camera already offers you.
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A tad misleading, really needs "IF YOU DON'T NEED RAW" in yr title.
Canon R5 shoot’s internal raw so you wouldn’t need ninja v for shooting raw with that camera. For most cameras you don’t need a ninja and for sure with cinema cameras since RAW internal is already part of the new cameras. Atomos fit a need when cameras were lacking but now we are past that.
@@JaredHoyman The FX3 is a perfect example of a camera that benefits greatly from RAW - the internal NR ruins the high base iso 12800 - ProRes RAW allows you record footage with that completely turned off, when you do your own NR in post the results are so much more detailed and natural looking
@JaredHoyman i have it for redundancy. In the middle of a shoot my camera for no reason just stopped recording. Ninja V saved my ass. I have it on whenever i am shooting a critical event + the monitoring is great
@@JaredHoyman completely and utterly untrue. I shoot pretty exclusively using a zcam rig, and the only raw codec it natively supports is ZRAW, and the only way to process it, is in adobe premier. I really like that i can shoot 12 bit pro res raw using it. The ninja actually expands the capability of your camera and uses your whole sensor. So i can get higher framerates, more color data, and it all fits on a nice SSD i can edit from directly.
Your also missing out on the fact that its a monitor. Alot of productions like mine, benefit from a mid sized monitor. And the fact that i can upload my proxies to the cloud directly after shooting, or sync it together with timecode, is all the more a reason. This thing is amazing for small or large productions. They even used it on the creator i believe. Terrible that your biggest thing is being able to use your cameras internal raw. Maybe the r5 is good with it. But not all cinema cameras have good internal raw. Take the older arri classic for example, the only way your pushing 2.8k res out of that sensor is if you use a monitor like the ninja. So id seriously rethink your thought process on this.
@@papsnythis too. Its nice to have multiple recording devices
I do disagree on many points. Hear me out: The added weight is good for more stable footage, the monitor is way more precise for pulling focus, checking the frame, making sure lighting is correct. When recording external you don't get overheating issues. Since you record to SSD, Gigabytes cost less then on Memory cards. You can install custom luts and see final results while on set and show this to customers. You can record in more efficient codecs, since canon codecs are a pain in the *ss when it comes down to editing. So, overall, when you're serious about film making, there is no reason not to get an external recorder. The thing I'm curious about, is, since you were not happy with your first atomos purchase, why didn't you consider buying for example a blackmagic recorder?
I wasn't unhappy with my atomos V, I just never reached for it when I did video so I sold it. When I got the r6 II and the only way to do 6k RAW was for the v or v+, I decided to just get the v+ since it was on a ridiculous sale at the time. As for the Canon codecs they all run smooth for me because I edit on a macbook pro m2 max in divinci and with multiple complex nodes in 10bit h265 I still don't miss a frame. When people say that canon codecs are not efficient to edit they are probably using premiere and on a PC. As a guy who edited on PC in premiere for the past 20yrs I will say the M1 and M2 is the best way to edit video now days. I don't disagree with you on pulling focus, false color and higher bit rate codecs, but for most people its not an issue. Neither is overheating. I have never had my r6II overheat and I recorded none stop for over 4hr in 4k 24fps. My fulltime profession is real estate marketing and to be able to get it on a gimble quick for a walk through with very little accessories and weight means shedding time off the shoot. Because I spent less than $500 for the V+ I'll keep it. I also do tutorial videos on settings so it comes in handy to show my screen. I may also use the connect in the future for streaming. As for blackmagic, I don't believe they support 6k raw out of the canon, so it never was an option for me. It also tends to run high in price compared to atomos.
I appreciate your perspective and point of view.
I agree with just about everything you've written but I only partially agree about the weight thing. Yes, adding weight helps with managing the micro jitters you get when filming handheld. However the issue with monitors with big batteries on top of your camera is that the weight isn't distributed properly. These batteries tend to stick-out, creating a front-heavy setup. This, in turn, forces you to exert extra effort in keeping the front end up, and unfortunately, it can result in occasional jerky vertical movements, especially if you're using a heavy lens like the Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 or any of the bulkier zoom lenses. That's also one of the main reasons why many videographers opt for a substantial V-Mount battery and attach it to the rear of the camera for better balance.
what do you mean by multiple complex nodes in 10bit h265? what codec do you use to get 10bit color in canon r6 ii?@@JaredHoyman
@@creativegreatsvisuals canon clog 3 is in 10bit h265, which is a very compressed codec needs a lot of computer power to read, so people always complain about how choppy it is when editing h265. My MacBook Pro max m2 reads it flawlessly without missing a frame and add multiple layers or nodes if you are editing in Davinci resolve, it still doesn’t miss a frame. Mac m1 and m2 chips run h265 natively which pc does not. Most people who complained about high compression h265 are pc users. Let me know if that is what you were asking.
@@JaredHoymanH265 is actually smoother in PC than M2 because You have discrete graphics and more thermao headroom but it is an ineficient codec, not because playback but because it limits the ability of using OFX plugins and effects, it is prone to glitches and visual errors and in projects that have to go through QC, you'll get more flags.
I have the EOS R5 C. I need to buy a 1TB memory card. I'm thinking of buying the Atomos Ninja V+ because I believe it comes with a solid-state drive, right? What do you recommend? Thank you very much in advance. 🤠🙏
You might be able to get it on a bundle with a 1tb. Otherwise 1tb ssds are not too bad expensive anymore.
I shoot most of my video on a custom rig so the weight was acceptable. I also power it from a V mount battery and adapter. I have been using atomos since the Ninja 2 and love the savings on memory over cfexpress type A & B
Do you have a process for shooting redundant or is it just to the one media?
@@JaredHoyman I have shot redundant for certain things I do. I set the camera to record at the highest rate I want and the Atomos would record a lower quality backup for social media use.
I don't mind a heavier camera. I'm old school. I carried around huge 25 pound betacams back in the day. You did not need the image stabilization back then because the weight made you more stable.
That is so true. Now if you had too much coffee you will see every jitter in the small cameras.
I had a V+ stolen at the airport early this year. Last month I picked up a V for $399 with a Smallrig cage from Adorama. Was going to just pick up a monitor for all the reasons you’ve noted, but having the flexibility and coming with a cage the purchase made sense. All I really need is a monitor right now, but at the price point I’m not complaining.
That is a good price and I would do the same thing. The V is a great option, especially for the price.
Sorry to hear how did it get stolen and where?
@@gurugamer8632 stolen out of my locked SKB case, I assume by an airport employee. It was in there when I left John Wayne in Santa Ana, and gone when I grabbed my luggage at O’Hare.
So you mentioned real estate videos. I'm in AZ doing videos on new build model homes and my Pixel 7 almost melted down one day when doing the outside. I saw a pop up, too bright outside to know what it was until my phone shut down and I took it out of the gimbal and it was scorching hot!
Later I learned it's 2 things, video processing and screen display using up all the power and creating heat.
So I was going to get a Canon R50 after some research and an external monitor and would like to have a big screen but not have a VCR sized box on the camera. Do I need a monitor that processes and stores to really keep the camera from melting down?
After this video and reading the comments I not sure what to think about the Atomos, do you have any recommendations for my setup? Learning DR, have 18.5 Studio and the Speed Editor Keyboard. Loving all that!
Going to your channel now. Thanks!
If you can save up a little more I would do the r7. Unlimited 4k recording without overheating. 4k 60fps so you can slow it down half speed for smoother shots in resolve. It has more video features and ability to shoot 10bit clog for better color grading in DR. I use the R7 for 90% of my youtube vids and tutorials. I do use the r6 ii for all video walkthroughs of real estate but then you are spending another $1000 from what the R7 cost.
@@JaredHoyman
Ok very helpful information!
I thought I found the perfect solid built "made in Italy" Gimbal by Manfrotto but another TH-camr was correct, it's just a copy of another Chinese Gimbal that even has the Chinese brand on the app.
I can do things made almost anywhere but China. If you read the permissions required for a DJI Gimbal it would take an 8.5 x 14 sheet of paper to print it all.
What's a poor boy to do? (figure of speech, not poor =O)
I have been looking at buying a ninja or even a ninja+ as I mainly photograph and video airshows, military aviation training or exercises, by turning the tripod foot above my lens and mounting a Sony AX53 or an AX43 4K video camera on that so that I can record video and take pictures simultaneously.
This gets very heavy and sometimes it is difficult to line up the two cameras and keep them on the action.
On hearing that you can connect the ninja to the canon R6 MK2 and record 4K video direct from the R6 MK2 sensor in the ninja and still take pictures with the R6 MK2 I became very interested.
Only snag is despite a seller here in the UK confirming that this is possible, I haven't seen a video explaining how it works in practice, so im a little reluctant to commit to buy a ninja (new, not second hand) SSD's batteries cables etc.
Is it possible that you can do a how to video showing how this works?
Initially I'm hoping to record 4K footage in the ninja with sound and then take photos in the R6 mk2
I use lightworks for video editing, id be interested in your thoughts on this?
ATB Andy
The Ninja V made the Canon R videos go up to 10bit and it always performed wonderfully. Also, when I had the R6 it also made it easy to record - stationary - long form content. Yes, the setup up process is annoying and make quick adjustments difficult, but I would not want to miss my Ninja V. Also working with SSDs was quite nice since everything is so fast. I do however tend to use it only when I really need it.
Bought my V+ a while back and never looked back. The 8k RAW from the R5 is sick.
Do you record the 8k with your ninja v+ mostly or internally?
@@JaredHoyman ninja because it actually records ProRes
Does recording in the v+ eliminate the overheating ?
Can you do 4k 120 with the v+ ?
@@ctrl_alt_del no 4k 120 but you can shoot 4k60 and slow it down works great
@ctrl_alt_del you shouldn't have overheating using it. I didn't with the r6 and that was known to overheat.
I do not have any batteries on my Ninja V. Picked up a battery eliminator with a USB-C to barrel power cord. Wear a battery pack belt and literally have all day power. Just needed lots of SSDs, Andycine Lunchbox II and Samsung 2TB drives are really cheap and reliable.
Was curious what kind of battery pack output do you need? Does 20w output cover it or do you need something more serious?
The one thing I dislike about the Atomos recorders is the media. It would be much more helpful if Atomos would have direct recording to highspeed portable ssds connected by a type c cable. A codec that would be raw and work in Resolve would also be great. Framing,focusing, peaking, an Atomos asset.
I agree. It would be more beneficial for most people if it could record black magic raw or any other raw besides pro res.
LOL Checked the link and as always Amazon boosted the price and now it's the low low price of $400 well 399. Good point and that is why I don't have either one I just rely on what's in camera and work that. Adding more bit depth will not fix composition, bad lighting, or frame. Keep creating! New subscriber
Welcome aboard!
I have to respectfully disagree. These are fantastic field monitors that end up being a wonderful tool on professional shoots. I have a Ninja and a 7" Shinobi and they come in extremely handy for interview setups and many other applications. In a way the Ninja can turn a mirrorless camera like that into something professionally useable, or just be a great swiss army knife in your toolbox for a real video camera. Happy shooting!
I completely understand it works great for a lot of people and their work flow. For me in my specific use case scenario it works better as a screen recorder for my tutorials. As my needs and wants change down the line I may change my mind.
Btw… I love respectful disagreements and encourage them. I appreciate the way you presented your disagreement.
Has there been a solution developed or even sold for adapting an nvme m.2 to work with the ninja or shogun? I was eyeballing the shogun ultra, but it appears that they still use SSDs. I like the Andycine method, and see that they have nvme adapters to usb (I use crucial in an enclosure to capture ProRes HQ with my lumix s5iix, but it would be interesting to break into the RAWs as well). I'm open to advice. I am settled into Prores as I have access to the entire creative cloud for about 19 a month and I heavily use adobe at this point and would prefer to stay there for the time being. I guess most of that was superfluous info, but just curious if a solution exists.
I originally got the V+ as the only way to get file timecode into FX3 recordings. The Ninja is so chunky and heavy and loud I dreaded using it or straight up couldn’t use it in most scenarios. As soon as Sony released the timecode adapter cable and firmware update all I’ve used the Ninja for is ripping videos of shows I’ve worked on. Pretty overpriced for that
@JaredHoyman I own the R5 and with the latest firmware the camera is not overheating. I use the V+ when I want to shoot long video on h.265 or Prores. I prefer 8k raw since is 12bit only use the Proresraw at 5k for the 60fps at 12 bit other than that is just a monitor and I'm about to buy a 2nd camera (R6II) and I will buy just a monitor and use the V+ with ether one when I need it
All I can say is 😂 I still have my Ninja V when it’s was first announce that I currently use with my S1H and never needed to upgrade don’t really see a reason too either.
Raw or log not needed for talking heads, most video clients don’t appreciate the difference. Get gear for Raw for your own creative projects and to upsell to interested clients.
Yeah, I have an R5 C so I decided to go with the Shinobi. I appreciate you saving me $300
The R5c has excellent raw internal recording. No need for a ninja with that. How are you liking the r5c? I plan on getting one this year.
It all depends on what you need the most, if you have an EOS R like me and prefer the log 10bit and SSD instead of the SD Card then you have to carry the weight like i do, it’s painful yes especially when you age but that’s what it is 😊
People talking about HDMI make me feel stupid using a R5C with the smaller and shitties HDMI port that shouldn’t even exist 😂
You figured out everything that I had to figure out as well. The only thing it is really good for is to just be used as a monitor only for false color. No need to record to it with all the built in camera codecs and SSD recording. Not going to lie though.... the onion skin in the Ninja is fun to play with.
Kinda disagree with your thinking here. I use R6’s (two because they overheat). I purchased the Ninja V to overcome the 30 minute record limit and help with overheating. Two issues you don’t encounter with the R6 ii. But what I also like is that I can record non Log footage to the Ninja V using H265 xq and get 10bit 422 where the R6 only gives you 8 bit 420 IPB. I’d love the 6k raw option for shooting in changing light conditions or events where keeping up with white balance changes is very difficult. I also appreciate the cheap media compared to SD cards.
how does it help with white balance shooting raw ? and when recording non log footage h.265 xq how much run time do you get on 1tb ssd per say ?
@@creativegreatsvisuals it's similar to shooting raw photos, sort of... when you bring the Pro Res Raw clips into your video editor (providing it supports Pro Res Raw like FCPX) it allows you to adjust the ISO and white balance in number value. It actually treats the file like you shot it in the now corrected white balance or ISO instead of just adjusting the original image. As for the Atomos H265 XQ I'm seeing about 2gb per minute in real world shooting. Under a controlled static scene here is what I'm getting using my R6 mk1 with the Atamos Ninja V in a 60 second clip. H265qx - 1.84GB, Pro Res LT - 2.15GB, Pro Res 422 - 3.0GB, Pro Res HQ - 5.52GB
I didn’t know you could shoot in normal picture profile (non log) on the r6 with the ninja ? Wow.
I’ve just ordered the r6 mark ii, if I bought the Ninja could I shoot non log in 10 bit ? Cheers
I shoot with a super minimal R5c set up.. not even a cage but can use a larger V mount battery to give me a full day of just video and photos. Charges the camera while turned off too.
I always liked the idea of getting a recorder to shoot Pro Res Raw just for fun and experiment with however I don’t really have a computer to support the edit or it takes 15 hours to export a 3 min clip or 8k raw and can barely play back on my computer.
The XFAVC 4k CLOG3 that I can shoot with the R5c is SOOOO much better the quality is phenomenal and I can edit it so smoothly on my PC using Premiere for now and export times are blazing fast.
If anything I would want a larger and brighter screen because the LCD just can’t hold up in brighter days. Super tough to even see focus and exposure that I mainly have to just wing it and rely on the waveform diagram.
I have the original canon EOS R and I saw all the big names talk about how it can be transformed into a baby C200 and I bought it with such high hopes. It is a nice monitor, but it is so too heavy and it glitches so often that it’s not reliable for contract work….
Disagree; I get more bit depth with my ninja V & Sony FX3 and the color/dynamic range/contrast seems to come out more pleasing straight off the ninja V as well (at least with my combo)
I have the feeworld 7” and the Atomos V the feeworld is so much easier to use.
I have no doubt that the Freeworld is easier to use, but does it record? No.
The *Feelworld* monitor my be cheaper than the Atomos V, but the on screen assist features by far lag behind what Atomos has.
I never thought about the hdmi raw method, don't know much about it, but read that lower in the comments. I do have a laptop, but both are about 8 lbs. Would be cool to stay lighter, but I am open to suggestions.
I agree with you and wish I hadn't bought it. Burns through batteries like a hot knife though butter. don't like the extra weight of a bigger battery and could never get it to trigger record from my fx6. Only upside is I bought it used.
V+ for sure if you're shooting ProRes RAW. You can easily edit PR RAW in DR using reasonably priced RawConverter. Tons of benefits to that approach.
If it's too heavy just use the F750 battery. You'll get half an hour/ batt. Who records a single take of more than 20 minutes? With creativity, you can even rig the Ninja on a gimbal with your Canon! We do that all the time and it is bad-ass!
I have mounted the v+ on my gimbal and I agree that it mounts well. I do wish you could record 4k clog 3 onto the r6ii at the same time as a backup instead of HD.
Add more weight to your rig, 6-8 pounds is the sweet spot for stable, natural looking hand held footage - saving 1/2 a pound isn’t going to make your or break anything
For me I’m a real estate photographer and videographer so my camera lives on a gimbal when walking through 5,000sqf homes so lighter is better. It all depends what your use case is and for me it’s light for property walk throughs.
that setup looks light as!
For real estate the lighter the better.
Is the fan loud? Does it run hot?
It pretty audible. Doesn’t get that hot.
When is your course going to be available?
My goal is by November, but it may be sooner. I may be doing a pre order soon and giving a good discount for those that want to pre order the course. Let me know if that is something you would be interested in. The course will break down equipment, techniques, editing, and how to grow your business.
@@JaredHoyman yeah. Keep me posted. 👍
I've never owned a Ninga, but my first experience using a monitor on a canon is that you lose all the touch screen options from your screen. Maybe that's changed, but that was my deal breaker. I enjoy using clog 3 and IPB light so I would find Pro Res, or Pro Res Raw to be too huge with limited trade-off. I'm now in the Sony world too and for the most part I;ve been shooting 4k xavc HS 30 MB 420, which is like a tiny IPB light and 10 bit 420. It looks nearly identical and super small, no banding issues (420 was tested by Gerald undone and it is not a deal breaker. Canon smallest 4K bitrate is 60MB and Sony is 30MB. Then I can always hit it with Topaz Video AI , if I need too. I honestly wish that Canon would have a 10 bit 420 option. In the Canon world I've been preferring my R7 over my R6 for video. The r7 in 4K Fine is clean and has more dynamic Range then the R6 or R6ii and it can easily match my Sony Colors
I love my r7 too. Most of my videos are with the r7. I will say my r6 II operates like a full frame version of the r7 and they compliment each other well. Small compressed codecs are underrated and the people who complain are those that cheap’d out on their computer. Ultimately if you have a Mac M1 Max and up it cuts through all codecs like butter.
Great video, mate.
So it is not only me. Same feeling for Ninja here!
If one cannot tell the benefits of raw video or Prores then they never needed it in the first place.
Those formats exist for a good reason and commonly used in the professional world.
Yes it's true when just looking at the video as is there isn't much if any difference. thats by design. The whole point of modern video codecs is to visually look like there is no compression. At least in terms of what we see with the naked eye. We have reached that level for a long time now. What the h264 and HEVC formats do is toss out the stuff in a very intelligent way that we really cannot see with our eyes. The codecs know it's subtle enough detail that it can be sacrificed and will not be missed. Thats how the video can be so tiny in comparison to larger formats like raw or uncompressed.
It's when we need to push the video beyond just a as is visual experience that these larger formats matter. It's the same reason why we record 32bit audio or want 14+ stops of dynamic range. Overhead. It gives us the room and flexibility in post to push the content in different levels than it was recorded as. Yes 10bit 422 HEVC is pretty darn robust when compared to the crude 8bit 4:2:0 HDV days but the video doesn't get that small without throwing out data. That tossed out data is the very subtle data but it's still lost data. It's the data that matters when lifting up shadows, when pulling a key or altering color in a dramatic way.
Sure it's not always needed but the point is it doesn't hurt to have it either. As long as one has the storage space and the processing power to handle it then why not? Why not have it just in case? I mean we don't really need more than 10 stops of dynamic range either. Especially if one exposures correctly. rec709 can only really see 8ish stops and thats with a large S curve that crams a few extra stops into a sliver of space. Higher range essentially becomes nothing more than a rolloff in a vain attempt to make SDR video feel less limited. Even HDR 1000 which I work with has limited dynamic range of about 10-12 stops depending on a lot of factors and viewing device types. It's fairly pointless to have 15 stops of dynamic range. What it does give us however is the ability to alter the exposure of a shot a lot easier.
Thats why we like to have the overhead.
For me shooting raw video is done for the same reason why I shoot raw photos. I have more creative control over the look vs what an engineer decided was optimal. Yes its more work but one can argue so is working with raw photos over just shooting jpegs. DSLRs shoot some very impressive jpegs these days and in many cases provide a very clean optimal photo right out of the box. Many pros still however choose to shoot raw photos and prefer to get their hands dirty and really dig into the creative process to massage and cook their own look and style.
Same goes for video. Just because its video doesn't mean we should settle or just accept an engineers perspective. Sometimes we want that full creative control.
So no it's not a waste of money at all. A good monitor provides a larger display, a brighter display, a more accurate display, better exposure tools which are seriously lacking when shooting video on most Canon cameras. Tools such as false color and a a waveform that actually stays on the screen when we hit record. I love my R6 and R5 but the video tools are seriously limited. On the Ninja I can shoot HDR video and actually see 1000 nit HDR on the Ninja V display with pseudo 10bit color. I have a larger 5" display at 1080p resolution to better see details and manual focus. I use a loupe on my Ninja V meaning I have a large 5" 1920x1080 EVF on my R5 where I can shoot in any bright sunlight and see just about any detail as I shoot it. I also use a BMD Pocket 4k and yes that 5" screen makes a difference. The tools make a difference. Being able to load my own SDR or HDR look luts to shoot with makes a difference. This is all even before factoring in the recording formats.
Camera monitors in general are pretty popular for the reasons I mentioned above. 3" screens on DSLRs kind of suck. They are ok but far from a professional video display for serious video work.
Now with all that said I will say on my R5 I record 8k internal Canon raw video because it's amazingly perfect video. I prefer to use it over ProRes raw. So I use my Ninja largely as just a really good professional display now. I will on occasion use it to record video but the R5 even has all-i formats internally so yes I am finding it much less important to record externally these days. At least o the R5. The R6 and R6 mk2 have a lot more limited video options. Even then one only really should do it if they find themselves hitting a ceiling with the internal formats. Raw video doesn't have to be for everyone. It's not magically going to look better on its own ether. You either need it and know how to benefit from it or you don't.
I read your whole comment so be impressed 😉 I agree with the benefits of RAW, especially for photos. In the video world RAW is relatively new and 20yrs ago we used cinema camera with very flat profiles. Ninja has great features and abilities, but for those that shoot on a true cinema camera all those features exist including internal raw recording and false color. If someone does not have a cinema camera then the Ninja v offers their dslr or mirrorless to operate in a similar fashion. For anyone doing video production as a career, then I would tell them to buy a cinema camera and not a hybrid. The benefit of the Ninja v+ for me is screenshot for camera tutorials.
I do my best to read all comments and I appreciate your perspective. Their are definitely things the Ninja v could benefit me in certain situations, but in my workflow, where time is money, I need to move fast and light so I can get to the next shoot since I photograph and film 5 houses a day.
@@JaredHoyman I don't disagree with you at all but just wanted to point out there is benefit and there are lots of users out there that do benefit from it. It may not fit into your own personal workflow but that doesn't mean it's a useless tool for everyone.
Ironically I know a lot of cinema camera shooters that are in fact using external monitors. In some cases even larger stationary 17-24" displays. While all cinema cameras have a wider range of formats and exposure tools they do not all have a larger display to work with. In some cases they don't have a display at all.
I also know a good number of cinema camera users moving back to hybrid cameras because of the better AF and stabilization. BMD makes great cameras and good bang for the buck but they will forever be lacking in run&gun situations or even a basic interview where DPAF has a lot of value to keep a slightly shifting and moving subject in focus 100% of the time. I used to be against any form of AF but it's a big value today and cinema cameras are lacking in a lot of areas.
With that said I 100% agree that for most users it's likely overkill to use a Ninja. I end up using my most of the time as just a really good display and record internal C-log 3 on the R5 or internal 8k raw video. Depending on my actual needs for the material. I do shoot the 4k HQ mode a to more internally however and thanks to the better heat handling on the R5 now I don't record ProRes on the Ninja very much at all anymore. I don't even use it for ProRes raw and now prefer the Canon raw video.
I could sell the Ninja V and just get a monitor for a lot less but the Ninja is a good display overall and I like their more industry standard support for HDR.
What I find infuriating about the new Ninja Ultra is it's essentially the exact same hardware and its being sold as a new model. Thats given me a bad tase for Atomos right now since the new models mean the Ninja V/V+ users will likely no longer see firmware updates.
Somehow after watching this video I've become convinced I need the Atomos Ninja V! Reverse psychology!
lol. I have to figure out how to use that effectively on my kids.
is it possible to Transfer the movie over WiFi from Ninja Ultra direct to my Windows PC and Android Smartphone for remote view (without Cloud Subscription) ?
I am unsold
The old Ninja V can now be upgraded to the new Ninja. You can switch your old Ninja V to OS 11 for free. However, once you do this there are limitations on features. Atomos is now offering the H.265 upgrade for $79.00 and this purchase will unlock all features of OS 11 as well. You now have the "New Ninja".
I saw that a few days ago and ended upgrading to their os11. I haven’t had too much time to play in it, but their menu system does seem so much cleaner and more organized than the old. I already paid for h265 a few yrs ago but it’s nice to see they brought the price down for others. I’ll have to do a follow up video once I have spent a little more time in the new OS. Thanks for mentioning this.
@@JaredHoymanI did purchase the H.265 upgrade a few days ago. Initially I had a problem with the Token transfer, which Atomos eventually sorted out. The "EL Zone" is a fantastic feature, you'll love it.
I have an R6 that stops at 29:59 *cries*
Atomos Ninja V for me has been a collection of errors. stopping sometimes right in middle of important job or giving me killing frozen and unresponsive screen. and finally the fact that you need to pay 99$ to get the H.265 for long recordings that you really just want to deliver the file right off the camera... all these make it a disappointment for me. now with R6 and R5 I need to use it but if I get the R6 II or there's an update for R5 to go unlimited, I don't think I would still bear all the hassle.
Which brand of SSD are you using? I use either a Sony NEX FS100 or FS700 with my Ninja V, and use two 1TB Sandisk Ultra 3D SSDs (one SSD dedicated for the FS100 and the second SSD dedicated to the FS700) and I haven't had any issues with the recorder stopping or freezing with unresponsive screen. I use Sony brand batteries and have owned the Ninja V for over three years.
The only point that bothers me a lot is the missing mirror function. The cheaper Atomos Shinobi has it. A lot of no name garbage monitors have it too.
The more i look into the Ninja long term users the more I keep coming across massive defects on them. It feels like a massive gamble to get these. Last but not least, they seem like overpriced potatoes. Their displays are tiny, 1080p, require stupid batteries, the HDMI cable lottery, they’re loud, etc. am I overthinking this? They seem great on paper ( display resolution and power options not withstanding), but they feel like such a gamble. This all feels like a really bad joke. Thanks for sharing!
You are not wrong. They serve a purpose, but for most people they do not need it. If you have a camera that has unlimited recording and shoots in 10bit, you are probably good without it. If you are a full time cinematographer then you are not using a camera that would benefit from it anyways. You are using a Sony FX6 or Canon C70 and your camera allows you to do everything you need it to do.
Thanks. I went back and forth this last month talking myself in and out of getting one vs just dropping the extra cash on a better camera with better codecs. I’m convinced this is gonna be an exercise in frustration dealing with the weight, cables, adapters, power options, fan noise, and the seemingly absurd codec registration woes. This is gonna make hackintosh and magic lantern feel like a walk in the park. I did some further tests with the oft-maligned cripple hammer IPB codecs, and I’m not convinced they’re as trash as I initially imagined. It’s too bad we dont have any sane options for what is essentially a dumbed down single board computer that lets us hit record. LOL, batteries not included. Get the F outa here. 😂
@@Callmedstone IPB gets a bad rep from people who don't have computers that can handle the compression well. If you have a mac with a m1 or m2 it runs like butter, especially if you are using Davinci Resolve. If you have a pc...then it runs slow. If I shot features or commercials I may tell you to go a different route in codecs, but for my business all of my clients are posting only on social media and their own website. Nothing is hitting television or the big screen.
@@JaredHoyman so I decided to run the ultimate battery of tests using a 2016 MBP . Its totally doable once you convert the footage. A process i believe is one whose shittyness hinges more on workflow than anything else (do it while you sleep or take a 💩). You can view the partial premise behind IPB (i think) by using one of VLC filters which shows changes in motion in each frame . It’s interesting to see how little changes . Once you start doing the math of all-i vs IPB frames it gets even weirder, bc 200 megabits for two frames (ipb) is a whole lot more data than 400 divided by 24. But what do i know . Lastly, my final amd most ghetto test was filming rain as well as several movie clips wth fast action scemes on my TV and back yard using a Canon M50 ( aka the worst ) . It totally passed . In my view, if an IPB capture of “The Taking of Pelham 123” looks close to what i saw on the screen that means the codec is probably food enough for me until i get paid by discerning clients. We are all overthinking this - at least I was.
All video products that you buy come with the chance that something may be defective from the factory. You get in the monitor, test it, and if something doesn't work, you send it back for a replacement. I bought an Atomos V+ and the touch screen monitor glass was loose. I sent it back and got sent a working one. No big deal.
The 5" display is more than adequate. For me personally the 7" monitor I have is too large for my small mirrorless camera rig.
The batteries are a pain. But in reality if you are using this monitor you should be powering it via an external V-lock plate solution. Then it becomes a non-issue.
Hdmi cables. Are a pain. That is if it breaks and you don't have a spare.
It can be noisy when it starts to heat up but it has not been an issue for me for what I shoot.
Please give me more of that frustration, feels like the real filmmakers life...
Is that a channel? Share a link.
im subbed to your channel- but again of course its heavy cause you don't have a proper video rig setup - if you had a proper rig setup the screen is not a problem at all, especially with a external battery mounted
i use my atomos ninja v+ because i can get 2,5 inch ssds for really cheap compared to the really expensive type-a sony cards
but to record 6K you need an external recorder. Can't you use the Macbook with an 8KHDMI to USB-C adapter and record on the Mac without spending $500-800 on Ninjas?
I actually have never looked into recording clean hdmi out into a Mac. That would be interesting if that option is out there.
Jared Hoyman's perspectives are not wrong. But at the same time I get the feeling that he hasn't done the due process on researching what equipment he needs, then after buying a monitor complains about the obvious.
Battery life times for Atomos recorders along with the bulk & weight of NP-F batteries can be found online easily.
Also shooting on Raw is an intensive process. I don't know how anyone could buy an external recorder (V+) with the intent to shoot Raw and not expect it to be a bit of a pain to deal with the workflow...
Im Raw rich i mean broke . Got 20g tied up trying to shoot a cheap raw cam (Lumix) coulda got an r5c w rf 24-70. Back is broke .just havin some french cries 🎉
What is so ridiculous about Atomos is that you cannot buy used...well you can but you won't be able to update it unless the person gives you access to their Atomos account. I am stuck with a used one with old firmware.
I never even thought of that. Have you tried contacting the company to see if there is a reset option?
I sent a request in but it’s in their fine print that it’s a one owner product according to others comments I have read.
They must have changed their policy since i made these comments because i was able to FINALLY update mine!
make sure u tell the previous owner to sign off their register, boom u can sign up again
Using the Ninja, is it a dirty out or a clean out?
Yes. At least when I did it through a gaming console.
I use my ninja v with a Sony a1, which is one of the few cameras that lets you change your iso in post, so I never have to set it at filming ever again. Unfortunately, ever since the latest firmware update I’ve had terrible audio syncing problems. I don’t know what happened! 😢
Are you able to reinstall the previous version?
@@JaredHoymanunfortunately the atomos website says that once installed, the latest firmware can’t be undone/rolled back. I guess because it’s the last one for the original ninja v😢
@@ddespair that stinks. I’m sorry.
I had to use the ninja on a shoot once in someone elses studio (not my gear) and it was a pretty big nuisance. My nikon z8 can record 8k raw/prores raw/ and prores all internal so theres already no need to be on a ninja. If the ninja allowed me to save files in blackmagic raw that would be a massive selling point for me but since prores raw is useless to me since i edit on resolve the ninja is just a waste of cash.
TOTALLY On the Same Page. Pro Res Raw is useless to me too as someone who edits in Resolve.
what if one edits using final cut but uses resolve for color grading ? @@JaredHoyman
Sounds like all the issues you had with it are because it didn’t suit your specific needs
In a nutshell, yes. I do use it for my courses and educational shoots, but the purpose of this video was to show most filmmakers they do not need this. Its use is specific and if you are a fulltime paid professional then you would have a true cinema camera with a dedicated monitor that isn't used for recording because your cinema camera has all the professional codecs for internal recording. For hobbyists and part time filmmakers this could be a good option to build your portfolio.
I agree, i bought this but i'm also pissed!
I enjoyed your video, not because I agreed with you because I don't, but I was interested in your perspective. I have been using Atomos recorders since the very first Ninja One and I'm a big fan but that's because I do video differently. I have two Ninja V's, 1 Ninja and 1 Samurai. I shoot live theatre, concerts and dance shows. I use tripods, weight is not a problem. I need ProRes because it is easy to edit, although I also record internally in H264 for backup. I need to record on SSD's because they are economical when you shoot long continuous takes. My cameras and recorders are powered by V-mount batteries (for the most part) because, like you, I don't like the large batter mounted on the Ninja V. I think it is a mistake to think that all videographers shoot the way that you do and face the same challenges.
I don't disagree with you. I think live events and especially if your camera is going to be stationary then does make sense. It also makes sense for those that do live events and have cameras that have a 30min limit. For me personally, my canon r6 II does not have a record limit, dual records to both sd cards and having a macbook pro M2 Max, h265 runs natively and smoothly without any frame loss in davinci resolve.
Yeah, problem is CLOG get a plunger ND a lumix or Sony but clogs suck
With the price of the ninja a person should just get a s5iix and record straight to SSD and just pick up a cheap monitor
If we can record directly to SSD through usb-c on Canon that would be ideal.
I want something that records 4k 120 and 8k 30. What are my options?
I do not own it, but the one I'm familiar with that would hit those specs would be the Canon R5. The price has come down quite a bit because they are expecting the release of the Mark II version soon. Here is the current refurbished price on that camera amzn.to/3SmoJQT
The ninja V+, ultra and shogun ultra will record 8k30 raw over HDMI from a cannon R5. I don't think any of the atomos products will record 4k120 because the HDMI spec doesn't support it.
It's less to do with the brand and more to do with "Do you need an external recorder?" I think a lot of people buy external recorders for the 6K RAW, but do little to any research on the power requirements and the data requirements.
This is why if you really are thinking about filming in RAW 1. You don't film events with RAW. 2. You are mainly a Narrative or Commerical Filmmaker 3. You want RAW but don't want to pay for a RED or Black Magic Setup 4. You should know you need proper rigging for an external Monitor.
However if you really want to shoot RAW on a budget I will always recommend people to buy a blackmagic before buying an external monitor with media. Why External Recorders existed before was for cinema cameras to have Redundancy, like the Odyessy. Secondly, they came about because Hybrid shooters don't want a Blackmagic because it shoots only video, so the external recorder gave it a RAW option it did not have before. The main thing people don't realize is Blackmagic and RED have different compressions of data for RAW. PRORES RAW is massive, if you compare it to lower compressions of R3D or BRAW it will dwarf those in size. You start buying a shit ton of drives and now you realize, hell, should have bought a cinema camera.
I used to own an A7SII back in the day and I thought it would be great, but honestly, buy cameras for their intent. When you have to attach too much crap to it, you basically void the reason which makes it enjoyable. I bought two XH2S cameras and they shoot beautifull ProRes internally and requires no external monitor and that works best for keeping my packing small and quality of media high. Then I have a RED Komodo for my commercial work. Now I know not everybody can afford this, but there are budget ways to get similiar results. GH5 shoots excellent ProRes and the BlackMagic 4K Pocket shoots excellent raw.
It's actually hilarious because back in the day, Ninja had the Ninja Star. An external recorder with no monitor. I wish they would come out with one of those that takes a low power draw because honestly when you're running and gunning, the monitor can get in the way.
Well said! You put it better than I did. Internal raw is king and mobility is key when it comes to booking more jobs in a specific time frame if you need RAW. I still only shoot LOG internally and as a real estate photographer/videographer I knock out 5 houses a day on average with my work flow. The comments I’m getting off of this video stating I don’t know anything about professional shooting is coming from individuals who make little to know money in this field with their equipment. At the end of the day it has very little to do with gear and everything to do with talent. 10yrs ago I booked and shot a $5,000 job with the canon rebel t2i, which was a $700 camera. We have been so spoiled with so much tech for little money that people do not know the basics of shooting. I totally agree about Blackmagic camera for people who want to shoot RAW on a budget.
@@JaredHoyman prepro, lighting, compisitions, etc set you from the rest. The cameras is defintely one of the last pieces that will make you stand out.
i don't think its a Ninja issue, (although its over 40% over priced) it sounds like a Canon issue
Thank you for saving me a lot of money!!! It is soooo top heavy with the Atomos!
Hi Jared, thanks a lot for your video. Usually I don't comment. However, the way you delivered the content was tremendous. Very intriguing! Thank you.
I appreciate it! Thank you!
Man this monitor recorder is amazing, I just think you were not the target and didn't do the proper research before purchasing.
I bought it for the reasons it offered. It's just not a value in my production work flow. I shoot 5 houses a day so I'm about light, mobile and quick set ups.
@@JaredHoyman precisely, easy to see from the start how it would fit your workflow.
Yeah this monitor is too dope. I love it.
This entire video really just sounds like a skill issue. The Atomos has a lot of on screen cinema features that help with the filmmaking process and the screen size already makes it worth it like you said and it also makes clients happy to see the shots while in action. I think you bought a tool that you didn't fully understand whether or not it would be good for your work flow.
Add one more BIG criticism of the Atomos Ninja: They STILL use SATA connectors to record. NVMe drives have gotten VERY inexpensive. Why keep using the old , slower SATA connectors? I'd love to be able to use 2 TB NVMe drives in an external recorder, but can't. Atomos is becoming a dinosaur (SATA) in an modern (NVMe) world.
SATA speed is ~6 Gigabits / s, which roughly equates to just below 750 MB/s (Megabytes / s). ProRes RAW HQ encoding for 4k 60p footage is about 300 MB/s (Megabytes / s). Still plenty of headroom in the spec. You can get an NVMe to SATA adapter for your specific needs.
I'd love to get an adapter from NVMe to SATA, but I've looked forever and never found it. Do you have some links you can share? I tried looking. I wouldnt mind converting my NVMe drive to SATA to record to Atomos Ninja and then take it out and stick in a Thunderbolt 3 enclosure to get lightning fast data transfer speeds, I just cant find an adapter that will do this. @@asim008
Totally! NVME M.2 drives are so much better and smaller
Factsssss, one of the worst purchases I've made
Elaborate on that. What made it a bad purchase?
sata standard is out of date
thank you for saving my money
What if Im not a videographer but still want a larger screen? What are some other good options?
This one has received good ratings and is pretty reasonable at $99. amzn.to/3qAGlx5
I keep getting disconnect errors. I have tried a million different cables. I can't keep the dang thing connected. Does anyone have a cable that works 100% of the time on 4K60? I even bought the expensive $60+ ATOMOS cable and it didn't work either.
what Camera are you connecting to? The cable I have for the R6II didn't give me any problems.
@@JaredHoyman I have the R5 and R6II
lol
Just buy a Z8. Problem solved.
I’m not opposed in trying one if the opportunity presented itself.
I heard the the ninja V can only record in 4k 30p, is this true? Also when purchasing the Atomos Ninja you have spend on storage? does it not come with storage?
It doesn’t come with ssd , correct. It can shoot 4k 60 and plus 120.
I have 2 x Ninja V units each with 1TB ATOMX SSD cards. I had a problem where they would intermittently have these line drop artifacts in vision. Long story short, it was the SSDs not sitting tightly in the slot and degrading the connection! Gaff tape successfully to the rescue! That there is ATOMOS in a nutshell.
😆 That sounds familiar.
The ninja v is the only piece of filmmaking gear that has ever failed me on set. I'm glad that this product is now all but irrelevant given our amazing new 10bit h265 codecs.
The best video I saw this week 😂😂😂 An anti gear video on you tube I like it
Sir I dont agree with you: I am a fully newbie in video editing, camera gear etc. That said: I was able to record in ProRes Raw + SLOG3 on my Sony FX3 + Atomos Ninja+ with very less efforts and research (we all know that there are enough TH-cam tutorials for this to make even a monkey be able to do video editing). My first challenge was to import the ProRes RAW files into DaVinci Resolve. Yes at the beginning I had to do some resarch. After 30 minutes of research and howtos I was able to easily import and edit ProPres Raw in DaVinci Resolve. The solution was very simple: I used the "ProResRaw Converter" in Windows to create editable Davinci Resolve files. No problem at all. Overall I am very happy with my Atomos Ninja and have bought the new Ultra version as a second monitor.
This video is very funny
You simply need to get back on your meds.
They shot a whole movie with an ninja V… An $80 million movie at that. Part of your problem is Canon. Switch to Sony you’ll get much better results. It really does seem you don’t know what you’re talking about. Or maybe you do and you just don’t know how to explain yourself. But your video was so so so boring. couldn’t get to the end of it so I’ll never know if you actually got to the point.
Looool
The worst is Atomosfor a few days a can’t set my Ninja v plus it takes video but no audio no one posts on how Atomos never responds to my emails 4 days and I am still playing with it it’s a real peace of garbage I was buying the 7” shogun ultra but now. Am checking where to get a deferent crap Atomos is real garbage it doesn’t work don’t buy there product at sll
I think its good for specific cameras and scenerios, but for most people I don't think it is needed.
@@JaredHoyman Atomos keeps pushing items that there support doesn’t know how to fix ! As I got technical support from India or Pakistan asking to send him a video ! I told him just send me step by stem on how to set it up he goes sends me links to TH-cam where you can’t understand anything because in the two videos the guy goes I am not going to explain where to go just went so fast that if you had a PHD in electronics you can’t understand it