Understanding Moldaver: Villain or Savior?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 พ.ย. 2024
- Moldaver first appears in The Fallout show as the primary villain. However, we eventually learn that her motives are complex--one might even say noble. Is she a villain, or a savior? Also...how is she still alive 200 years after the nuclear apocalypse?
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we all know lucy just forgot to read all the terminal entries and pick up any of the holotapes. probably a computer somewhere in that observatory with moldaver's entire life story on it.
didn’t have a high enough hacking perk😭
todd howard needs to release the 240 hour cut of the show where she freezes time every five minutes to listen to another holotape.
@@vinylwubs6987 ill be honest, in all my playthroughs ive never once listened to a holotape unless i had to. Like i grab them, but then never play them or anything like that. Is that weird?
@@jc_art_ not at all. it's just sometimes skipping over stuff like that means you miss out on some of the only storytelling in the games that isnt just "skeleton sitting on toilet". probably the greatest story in the entire game is one in honest hearts dlc for fallout new vegas, and it's only on terminals scattered around the canyons. game's perfectly playable without it, but you'll miss a whole lot of extra details the devs intended, so i'd very much recommend giving them a listen. some of the stories are so well written, and theyre only told thru journal entries and voice diaries.
@@vinylwubs6987 Would be great promotional material to be honest.
My wild theory is that Williams betrayed Cooper Howard in the past in order to get a place in a vault cryopod and keep working on her cold fusion project. It'd explain why Cooper thought she would have information about Barbara (remember he went to the Griffith Observatory to find her, Hank being there was a bonus), why she knew that Hank would have the code to the cold fusion generator and why Hank is so certain that she's no saint, he knows that she betrayed her cause in order to benefit herself.
we were shown pretty definitively that in the end she did everything for a selfless reason, not to benefit herself. she died with a teary smile on her face at the prospect of limitless energy for the world
@@hinasakukimi by "benefit herself" I meant "benefit her goal of completing the cold fusion project.".
@@shahzebhasan9995 This is not possible actually as she knows valut tech is evil then why would she join then 🫤,
@@shahzebhasan9995 her goal was quite good compared to other factions goals actually,she just reminded of nikola tesla
@@thunderpokemon2456yeah she probably found a copy of “Nikola Tesla and Me” in the wasteland and it really resonated with her.
I think we need to consider that most of Cooper’s flashbacks are likely set earlier in the pre-war years, only the opening sequence is definitely 10.23.2077
yep it is probably a few months to years before. as seen with the commercial he is recording for the faults these arent advertised offcourse in the last week before the blast. and the movie(he was shooting) has been edited and brought out on tape. and he had a divorce so minimal a few months probably 2 years??? at least for the early memories
@@allinadadsdayActually we know all the flashbacks take place in 2077 since the earliest we see Cooper is when he's filming 'The Man from DeadHorse"' which canonically came out soon after in late January 2077. So most of the flashbacks are within the span of one year.
@@lilchaos9212If the film came out in January 2077, then it could mean that a good portion of the flashbacks took place in 2076, or perhaps even 2075/2074, as shooting and post-production takes time, especially in the fallout universe where they still shoot on actual film.
The flashbacks 100% spanned over time, and weren't all right away in october 2077. You can tell in ep 4 when he makes the thumbs up. It is really awkward and new. The next flashback was when the thumbs up was ubiquitous and smooth etc., this shows time passing.
Plus, i imagine it took awhile for the mistrust of Barb to grow
@@BigCowProductions that last point is important especially. He loved his wife with his whole heart and soul, it takes a lot of time and red flags popping up for someone who loves their wife that much to develop any distrust of them.
Personally, Moldaver almost feels like a Sole Survivor herself. She’s from the prewar era and had her own ambitions. She raised Shady Sands, lead a splinter of the NCR, was heralded by other communities like Vault 4, and she was even in league with Raider networks.
Her role in the series is almost synonymous with the Sole Survivor in FO4. In that by the ending the player has accumulated their own political influence, raised communities through the Minutemen, consolidated control over the Raiders, and brought sustainable living to the Commonwealth by which faction you choose.
Thus why I almost associated more with Moldaver than Lucy in the game, because to me she is inherently the most important player in their story and has been the most benevolent overall compared to Lucy’s contributions so far. To which I believe Lucy most likely follow Moldaver’s footsteps in reviving a democracy by the end of her arch.
I think the Tops cryo-suites sign was meant to show that cryo freezing was a known and relatively popular technology, and not a secret Vault-Tec invention. Even its use in Vault 4 implies it's just available medical/scientific tech, not just for keeping people alive during the apocalypse. Meaning Moldaver didn't need connections to get one, she was rich enough to possibly even have one at home in a personal shelter.
I'm thinking Hank dropped the bomb on Shady Sands because he was pissed off about his wife leaving him for Maldaver, and that's where they lived.
Hank should have known she wasnt a vault dweller as soon as the door opened if all the overseers were from vault 31 he would know she wasnt one of bud's buds
When Hank welcomes vault 32, this is addressed. There was communication about the overseer's passing. Hank says they were sorry to hear about the overseer's passing from telegrams. She says that they were hit with blight and the exchange will help get them back on their feet.
@@rnr6417 but then they still would have elected an overseer from 31 "bud's buds" who Hank would have known
@@cptsketch13 true... Also how did they not notice they were raiders at all. Hank has low perception points 😆😂.
@@cptsketch13 maybe Hanks just dumb lol
exactly. and if rose went with her children to moldaver on shady sands, how does he not know moldaver? he went there to get their children, and then bombed shady sands. i don't see how he didn't confront moldaver.
I think Moldaver/Wiliams had the money, knowledge and ability to create her own vault like structure/cryo facility. With her connections she was able to get a heads up as to when to enter cryo stasis. My theory is that she then leapfrogged through time, awakening ever few decades to monitor the surface activity. I believe she would guide the surface dwellers for a while then reenter cryo until her plans could be fulfilled. She also had to have developed connections within the Enclave in order to persuade Wilzig to get the coldfusion chip and defect.
I think you are partially right about why Moldaver kept Rose around. I agree that it was partially love that kept her around, but at the end, Moldaver tells Rose's body "We did it" so I think it was also because they both wanted and worked towards getting unlimited power to the wasteland and she wanted them both to "live" to see it.
And i also think she wanted to torture hank
@@BigCowProductions That kinda doesn't make sense. Hank clearly didn't care if Rose and her daughter may have found a better life in Shady Sands. Otherwise, he would've left them alone, not drag them (or at least Lucy) back into the vault and nuke the city. So he's not gonna feel much being forced to stare at the consequences of his actions -- namely the rotting, mobile corpse of his own wife.
@@ScarletImp whether or not Hank responds to the appeal, it doesn't mean it wasn't part of Moldaver's motivations there
@@BigCowProductions I also think she wanted to bring pain. People forget what was the first thing she did to hank and Lucy. She picked a man to r word her then kill her. People say Lucy consented to it. But that's not what she signed up for. They killed her original husband 😂. U DONT do that to the kid of the girl u love. That's revenge to the core
@@tph951 Well f-ing said!! And it was 100% a gRape. By definition, tricking someone about the identity of the partner classifies as gRape. I can see people say "well she was just so broken after shady sands"!. Well, like you mentioned, if she truly loved Rose, she would have ensured Lucy would be safe
I don’t think the NCR is dead, i think they are just going through a Minuteman Arc. Indecision, massive losses, being stretched too thin, and ineffective leadership caused the first iteration to die, but it will definitely rise again. With Cold Fusion lighting and warming Los Angeles and possibly beyond, the NCR Remnants can use this old world power…to begin again.
Meta Talk: Honestly i think the TV Show Season 1 was meant to be the actual ending of the NCR, but they are pulling back on that because that implication wasn’t received well. And it’s a good thing that they are listening to people’s criticisms and opinions. I honestly think Fallout Season 2’s NCR presence will be a late edition because people wanted them to stick around, so they may stand out compared to everything else.
And before you say it, no it wasn’t Todd Howard who wanted Shady Sands to be blown up. He didn’t even write the show, he just advised for lore additions and changes suggested by the actual writers and Showrunners. It was THEIR idea to blow up Shady Sands, and apparently Todd was actually apprehensive to approve it at first.
Ironically it was an original Pre-Bethesda Fallout Writer, Chris Avellone, who wanted this too, as he ironically holds opinions everyone accuses Bethesda of having: Chris wanted Shady Sands nuked in an effort to weaken them and create new chaos because if large swaths of land became solidified Civilizations, it wouldn’t really be a Fallout Story anymore, would it?
Despite getting what he wanted, Chris Avellone hates the Show due to petty reasons lol
Personally, I think the NCR still has their northern states. They could’ve easily retreated up north. Perhaps the NCR president (who’s probably not Kimball anymore) would be up north, planning to retake south. It could take years to rebuild an army.
It's the tide of war, BUT with how much LOVE Bethesda and Nolan give the BOS it's possible they'll be eradicated in the next game.
@@corypowercat7277 honestly if anything I think they may be a joinable faction next game.
NCR is very likely no more. California has become lawless, with raiders & Filly is lawless town with no NCR troops.
I am guessing this is to give the TV series a clean slate: No more NCR, no more New Vegas.
There's speculation that the next Fallout will take place on the west coast, I could see Bethesda giving the minutemen another try with an NCR coat of paint.
Hank not recognizing the woman he knew she took her wife away is beyond me
He would've likely believed her gone long ago. Human memory is far from perfect as well. There's every chance he didn't remember her, being the goal obsessed scumbag we learned he was she would've skated right past his radar as she was a non threat to the vault tec plan.
@@splatninja9447 No, you are just stretching for a show that didn't care to respect the lore. It couldn't even get basic small things right. No, this was 100% just bad writing, not "human memory is far from perfect"
@G2Bryce You do realize it's been 200 years since he saw her and not to mention I don't believe he didn't recognize her. I believe he did but since he wanted to keep the truth of what happened to Rose and what he did from their kids I'm not really surprised.
@@way2kewl4u2 " You do realize it's been 200 years since he saw her" - it's painfully obvious you can't handle even basic logic. He was FROZEN. He wasn't awake for 200 making memories and forgetting things. He was frozen and kept around, specifically. To him it would have barely been a few decades. And that's assuming he never met or crossed her path while destroying Shady Sands and getting his daughter. It's a really bad show
he would have had to break tho hold facade of the vaults 31-33, the long term mission is above him breaking the 200 year project to out moldaver who can just out him to his vault citizens
A better question is how did Moldaver survive the destruction of Shady Sands? If she was in a relationship with Rose (and the Moldaver actress confirmed this in an interview), wouldn't they have been at least near each other? Even for a feral, Rose is in really bad shape, indicating it wasn't just too much ambient radiation that turned her.
None of this was ever confirmed. Just fan theories confusing and distracting people from how things really are.
@elvisibra how did she live 200 years bubs? This shows writing is God awful
@@JethroDAvis024 She lived for about 60yrs. 40-42 before nukes, and the rest after, likely using cryo, and in multiple shorter intervals, instead one piece, thus being present (appearing) during longer time period post nukes (meaning didn't unfroze ~2275 and lived to 2297, instead likely unfrozed the 1st time shortly after nukes, and continued froze-unfroze till the end). Some call her "Flame Mother", Flamekeepers are "eternal keepers of history", simply said.. 🤷
That is how it looks to be. I might be wrong. We will see..
@elvisibra considering that's mostly speculation, it's still a really cool theory. I however will.not hold my breath, the writers on this show have already broke my confidence. I like the show, it just isn't fallout and it isn't good for the fallout franchise as a whole. This is just an opinion, but it's an opinion from a LONG time fan of the franchise. And the lore is deeply embedded in my brain. I'm just salty about what's happening to fallout. Don't mind me.
@@JethroDAvis024 Well, I'm a long time fan of the franchise too, and I see no issues with TV show, we also got some answers for long time questions like: why did only few Vaults had G.E.C.K.s which are cold fusion powered, and why cold fusion isn't widely used?. Only thing they didn't have to do is move Shady from original location to LA (due to pre war TV show characters having their lives in LA), they could've connected these LA charaters to original location 🤷, but new location doesn't mean lore of Shady changed, and when say lore, mean, what Shady represents, means and its impact and influence. As long as they don't change that, it is ok.
What if she alligned herself with Mr. House?
Edit: Mr. House and Miss Williams both have a dislike for Vault-Tech. House didn't even contact the NCR until they claimed the dam and entered the strip.
Not possible NCR and house are not allies
Not possible NCR and house are not allies
Not possible NCR and house are not allies
not possible NCR and house are not allies
Quite likely, actually..
I assumed she was frozen once they did the reveal she was pre war
Technically, killing during a war is not murder. Sure, most of the residents didn't know they were at war with the NCR, but that doesn't change anything. Hank started a war. He is at fault for keeping this information from the rest of the vault. As far as moldaver knew, Hank didn't act alone. She would be under the impression that some of those vault dwellers helped. The sad thing is that Shady Sands was created by vault dwellers, so Hank essentially killed his own people.
Hank was assisted by Betty too.
I don't think she kept Rose alive for that specific reason at all.. It is a very interesting point of view (edit: the love part of it that is), but I do believe that she did it solely so that when she finally got her hands on Hank she could show him what he had done to his wife. Make him feel it make him face her. And that's seemingly what went down she is kind of sat down so that Hank is constantly having to look at her. Moldaver has some traits that are admirable and really surprised me and many other viewers, but she is still an evil character even when it comes to the NCR. As we know all the people in this area used to be NCR citizens, she is now feared and hated by the local population that used to be a part of the NCR, they call her a mad woman in the hills who has been responsible for countless bouts of death over the years. Her mission is more personal it's something that she's being trying to achieve for over 200 years. She basically sacrifices that NCR contingent to try and achieve her goals. I have to explain that to some hardcore NCR fans. Yes she used to and technically still does represent the NCR. But her actions depict that of someone on a selfish mission not someone fighting for a cause.
Yes. Was gonna say the same thing.
why did she hold rose's hand and say "we did it rose" even when hank wasn't around then? plus, there's zero guarantee hank would've given a shit (given he bombed rose) so 'tormenting hank' definitely wouldn't have been a leading motivation for moldaver to lug a ghoulified rose around for 20 years. i think it's just pretty likely moldaver was deeply attached to rose, whether in a romantic sense or not. also, how is trying to provide limitless energy to the world a selfish mission?
@@hinasakukimi I think that you make some valid points. I never said there wasn't other motivations but I just believe it to be the main one. I think she possessed a great deal of respect for her and her journey. they were probably very close in the time that she was in Shady Sands but we never see them embracing each other with a kiss or anything of that nature, her actions like holding her hand depict respect but it doesn't necessarily mean love. (If I was fighting a war I would do that to one of my fallen comrades, that doesn't mean I love him.) But yeah she obviously did not "love" her but as you said had an attachment to her whether it be through feelings or ideology/motive. Lucy loves her mom and she does the right thing putting an end to suffering. Moldaver had to of realized how torturous it would have been for her to remain like that for all these years (she's not even normal ghoulified either, she's missing her arm, eyes and half of everything else, that's no way to live if one can even call it living). Someone who cared about her to that level that didn't have ulterior motives would mercy kill her like Lucy did the minute she got the chance. Moldova kept her alive so that she could display her to Hank, she put him in a cage just a couple feet in front of her for God sakes. It even looked like the guards were forcing him to face in her direction.
We're both making valid points, and I agree there's definitely a level of attachment whether it be a deep respect or simply making her a part of her mission. In my opinion but but to me them being in an actual love relationship is more of an assumption not a guarantee. If they were then she is an extremely selfish and sociopathic individual. Could you imagine keeping your significant other alive even though you knew that they were enduring so much pain/uncomfort every waking moment.
And I'm not talking about her overall goal that's why I said she had many noble aspects and traits, but I mean how she was so willing to sacrifice all those people's lives. She was seemingly aware of the entire time that the Brotherhood would come for the cold fusion reactor. When the alarm sirens sound she doesn't even seem that surprised she just walks over and confirms her assumptions that it's the Brotherhood. If you knew the Brotherhood would come for it why wouldn't you try to at least evacuate the civilians beforehand... Or make plans to actually make sure that the "Wasteland got free energy" instead activating it and literally just handing it to the Brotherhood of Steel. Precautions should have been taken they should have had an escape plan prepared for the device so that it could make its way to other areas of the NCR. That's what I mean by it she wasn't doing it for the NCR she was doing it for herself, this was her goal that vault-tec stole from her. A goal that was envisioned over one hundred years before the NCR was created. She was dedicated to seeing that mission completed. Lucy's Mom showing up was an opening avenue for her, it showed her that her dream in her life's work were not lost and that vault-tec was still alive, and her goal is still achievable. I don't blame her for this either most scientists completely obsessed over their work, as it is their entire life. But yeah by allowing it to just fall into the Brotherhood's hands she only guaranteed that they have an active cold fusion reactor she didn't guarantee that the Wasteland would get anything if they don't choose for them to.
@@hinasakukimiit’s possible she wasn’t a feral ghoul the whole time.
@@Sir_Lorekeep that's what I mean, that would have been absolutely unbearable and it's nothing that I would ever allow anyone I loved or even liked to go through. Feral or not
Iv been loving these character studies keep up the good work
I feel she'd be more of an antagonist because despite her "good deeds" shown so far, the means for her to achieve them put her in a thin middle line, and not helping the fact her followers follow her in a rather cultic way
As how she survived the war, she could've used some of the experiments from Vault Tec (Cloning, cryo, life extension, etc.), after all, she did had some deep insiders within the company and had the monetary resources at that time to fund it
Moldaver is the mysterious stranger
she's a bit of both, as most factions tend to go, with a "ends justify the means" ideal.
Agreed. I don’t think she’s one or the other, not like the Institute 😭😅
@@Thenewboidahlia meh, very few factions are 100% evil or good. In this case Even the Institute is still on the spectrum, as their goal is to overall better humanity. Its just some are clearly slightly better than others.
@@hengineer very fair points!
@@Thenewboidahlia Actually, she's not too dissimilar from the Institute and Vault-Tec. She measures well-being in terms of material conditions, and aims to rectify this with technology, regardless of the cost of human life in the way of reaching her goal. Unlike Vault-Tec and the Institute, she at least nominally cares for the little guy, but this might just be a front so she can feel personally satisfied by activating her own technology that was stolen from her. Given that she built up a cult to aid in this goal, and was fine dying once she pulled it off, I think her ego was the biggest driver in her decisions...much like the Institute.
If it turns out Moldaver is a synth, then I'm going to call BS on that. Now I'm not saying the show is bad, because it is fun to watch, in spite of some things - but her being a synth would be out of the question for me.
For starters, how would she be a synth? Did she have connections to the CIT before the war, and did she give them a scan of her brain like Nick Valentine? Or how about _why_ the Institute would choose to make a synth of her years later? Or better yet, how in the Hell would a synth Moldaver be able to make it from the Commonwealth, all the way to Califonia?
People have traveled from coast to coast before:
The supermutants, the Enclave, The Brotherhood of Steel, Kellogg.
Think about it, Myron invented Jet around 2240, and that made its way through caravans and mercenaries to The Capital Wasteland and The Commonwealth.
@@eliavi3251 myron didnt invent jet
@ligaar0849 He did, and even if he didn't "invented," he synthesized it into the inhaler you see in all games.
The only reason you see it in 76 it's definitely Bethesda's lack of awareness on this fact.
she is a scientist her self. so she could be on the watchlist of the institute who wanted to create synths before the events in fallout. the institute creates supermutants with the fev and they are everywhere.
but i dont really think she is a synth. for her return the insitute would still be able to create synths and since they are blown up(at least i think most people choose that option) it doesnt seem likely the re going that way.
most likely she had a spot in a vault with pods, since she worked at a place that vaultec bought she props had a spot because vault-tec wanted to keep her for her brains and knowlegde. so it could have been a part of the deal.
but it is all speculation at this point or we all missed something.
Ms Williams was an academic so it is very reasonable she had ties with CIT and took refuge in their underground bunker, as well as agreeing to have brain scanned and stored. When gen 3 snyths were invented it is entirely possible that a group of Institute scientists secretly made several synths of her and took her out of the Institute so she/they could continue their noble cold fusion dream. All of the dates match up, and let’s not forget that the director also worked on WestWorld (synths are very similar to hosts). Heck Paladin Danse’s early story could easily be tied to her.
Moldaver is going to become Fallout fanbase slang for a McGuffin.
I really wish we got to see more of Moldaver and learn more about her in the show.
you never know flashbacks may involve her in S2
@@thestanleys3657from another character's point of view like Hank or Cooper Howard!
@@noahdean9685 that would be a good call
The issue with Moldaver’s plan that I have is that she made no attempt to protect the children of Rose. You would think that she would want to protect what was important to Rose, if Moldaver loved her so much.
I think she may have thought that Rose's children could have been indoctrinated by their father. Especially since they lost her at a young age. It doesn't justify her actions, but anybody in the vaults could have been helping Hank, including his children.
Moldavor was willing to sacrifice everything to achieve her goal.
@ fair but then that really doesn’t make her much different from her enemy
A complicated perceived antagonist. perfect for the universe of fallout. She fights against her perceived enemies. Vault dwellers. Vault tech.
She's morally grey. Also the Vault 4 cult that worships her is weird.
Probably freed them.
When it comes to Moldaver, I'm reminded of a variation of a well-known saying: "If I have sinned, let me be judged. But it is BECAUSE I have sinned, there will be those whom will judge me tomorrow."
I actually got Moldaver in fallout shelter a few days ago, she's had like 3 kids with Chet. 🤣💀
I think Lucy will end up leading the NCR causing a conflict between her and Maximus. Then they have to band together to stop Caesars legion. I’d like that story line.
And since Lucy is now traveling with the Ghoul, no doubt they'll use Cooper Howard's flashbacks to further flesh out his history with Moldaver. That could result in an interesting side quest where they end up traveling into areas where the NCR still has strongholds.
You know, this show makes me want another fallout show. A “spin-off” of sorts. A show called “Lorenzo”. Telling Lorenzo Cabot’s life story. I think that would be really interesting, and the possibilities of his story are endless. Would be very compelling if done right.
Edit: and the dunwich stuff! I want that delved into more! That’s not something the games really can do. They can’t just straight up tell these entire stories because they have to tell OUR story, as the protagonist. But a show or movie could!
She was my favorite character, one of the most interesting ones, I wish she didn't get killed off. I hope she's in flashbacks in s2
Ok, so Moldaver has the blood of some Vault Dwellers on her hands and, which I find more disturbing, having a raider sleep with Lucy. Somebody else here in the comments pointed this out and got deeper on that. Cheers, Mate.
However, from what we see, Moldaver is kind of a saint in a Fallout setting. There are no pure good people, and I think I did worse things in my ethically optimised playthroughs of Fallout.
"She/he did bad thing X, so she is also no better..." is an idiot take, that just gets you nowhere in Fallout and especially not in the real world. If you expect a good, even the best person, to have no flaws and punish this person the same as a deeply flawed or evil person, you may well end up being governed by this evil person. Remember to vote.
Well, I'm not that happy with Moldaver as a character, because her actions seem too good from what we see. And I give her a big pass after Shady Sands , except for the fucked up thing with Lucy.
I think controll vault 00 is the vault that oversees all vaults and the vault was compromised some how preventing communication with many vaults. As time passed the enclave found and took these people from the controll vault to end the threat of vault tech and secure their research. Other companies were probably raided as well for people and tech thus you have the not so enclave scientist who knows all about different vaults muldavor could have been working with cryogenic companies. Explains how they got vault 101s pass code vault 13s pass code and likely others too. I have always wondered about the all clear pass from vault tech and their surface monitors and why some seemed to have connection like vault 8 and vault 81 but others have no real connection to vault tech. The question is where is said vault? And what happened? Perhaps it's in Oklahoma as far as I'm concerned Caesar nor ncr ever went to Oklahoma and new vaults were opened in Oklahoma where America has lots of nukes and communication infrastructure in our own world. How did the enclave scientist contact muldavor? Possibly through an all clear signal still connected to vault 8 right in ncr territory and capable of withstanding raids and nukes. Notice the enclave scientists all wear pip boys now why is that if not for being vault tech employees. Perhaps these models can communicate. Like message roses pipboy for help. An apb if you will
My read on why she kept Rose's ghoul at the table was to taunt Hank and force him to see what he'd truly done while she had him in the cage
I think this is simpler than many people are making it, and the clues to who or what Moldaver is have already been provided in the first season. Here's my headcanon:
Moldaver was already associated with Vault Tec through the buyouts she mentions, so she is already an industry insider of some amount of importance within a subsidiary of Vault Tec. I don't think it is too big a stretch that she used that position to eventually weasel herself into Bud's Buds and rode out the apocalypse in Vault 31. She was eventually thawed and assigned to the Vault 33 management team with Hank and Betty, where she convinced Rose to skedaddle with the kids after exposing Rose to the truth. They got out using either Moldaver's or Rose's Pip Boy, found the NCR and Shady Sands, and were eventually found by Hank. Hank returned with his kids to 33 after a battle which heavily irradiated Rose and nuked Shady Sands. He disabled the entrance-side Pip Boy controls so Moldaver and Rose cannot re-enter 33 from the wasteland side.
Moldaver (and probably Rose, long prior to going feral) started a plan to breach the local Vaults with their Pip Boys in an effort to thwart Vault Tec, restore America via the NCR, and hopefully one day rescue Rose's children. They breached and liberated the experiment victims of Vault 4 from their overseers, turning the vault into an NCR allied outpost with a mix of vault dweller mutants and wastefolk.
After a few years they returned to the Vault trio to liberate Vault 32 as an alternative entrance to Vault 33 and 31, where they could eventually Save Rose's kids and crush Bud's Buds. Sadly, enough time had passed that Rose was pretty much a shambling corpse at this point. Moldaver vowed to save the children as Rose succumbed to going feral. Moldaver's forces breached 32 with Rose's Pip Boy, but the liberation was not as smooth as Vault 4. There was a battle, but Moldaver's force was the victor, along with whoever allied with them from Vault 32. Over the next 2 years Moldaver's forces prepare to breach 31 and 33. They planned on exchanging Lucy when she was old enough to marry as a ruse to get 33 to open their interior door, thereby simultaneously freeing Rose's kids while gaining access to Vault 31 with passwords they planned to capture from 33's management team. While they prepared, communications were occasionally sent from the Vault 32 Overseer's terminal to Vaults 31 and 33 to ensure Hank and Bud were unaware of the open backdoor into their Vaults from the wasteland.
When ready at the beginning of the show's timeline, Moldaver initiates the traditional exchange/wedding ceremony used to move dwellers and 31 managers between the vaults. The ruse is a success. Knowing Hank is already a hostile threat, they go in prepared and willing to spill blood. Moldaver gets hold of Lucy but cannot find Norm. Hank trades himself for Lucy. Moldaver makes the trade knowing he's her key into Vault 31, where she can eliminate the remaining Vault Tec managers and thaw out any other covert Bud's Buds she may have planted in the pre-war days. She leaves with Hank to try and wrestle out any info they can use against Bud and Vault Tec, knowing that she will eventually return to Vault 33 to keep her promise to Rose. The show goes from here.
All that above explains why Moldaver is still alive, why she isn't a ghoul, why she doesn't need to be a synth, why she already knows what was going on inside VT and the Vault trio, and how she already knows Hank and Rose. It also explains a bunch of other stuff going on in the background, like why Vault 4 is open and no longer actively working toward Vault Tec's goals, why it's dwellers worship Moldaver, what might have happened to start the Vault 32 insurrection, and why Moldaver was more interested in capturing Hank than taking his children.
We'll see how close I got soon, I guess.
I will say it again Oxhorn. I do not think she was frozen for the entire time if she was cryogenically frozen. She may have been in and out a few times and potentially played an important role with the NCR. (Might even be why they worship her as if she was a prophet) At the end of Episode 5 when showing the books from the Shady Sands elementary school in a locker, there is a book called The New California Republic by Kate Williams - 2189.
It is the only book that you get to see the front cover of it. This may be a different Williams, but why choose that name and focus on the book if the writers aren't hint dropping? Just a thought.
There's one thing I believe, no matter who's hands are full of blood, the one who has the most blood of the innocent on their hands is Vault Tec.
Theory:
1. Hank loves his wife and kids and isn’t willing to blow them up for vault tech.
2. Betty wants to blow up shady sans on behalf of vault tech but doesn’t have the authority to do so. She can’t go against Hank because he was so beloved by the community genuinely. Betty: "Because I buried her myself. Me and your father."
3. Betty either personally or hires someone to, kill Rose.
4. Hank collects just his kids because his wife is on the verge of death or is dead.
5. (Possible but not necessary to the theory) Moldaver gouls up Rose intentionally in an attempt to save her. Or finds her goul and captures it (this one is a bit more difficult to reconcile and achieve I would reckon).
6. Out of anger of the wastelanders killing his wife, Hank says “we can’t trust the people on the surface. (Finally relenting he gives the command) nuke them.”
7. Hank feels guilt / disbelief about seeing his wife not dead, but parading around like a corpse devoid of all sense of self, by the woman who tried to get his wife to stay on the surface.
That’s how you get your “both did bad, had good intentions, and loved rose.”
I have a feeling we will get more flashbacks of Williams both prewar, and with the NCR
She's doing the best thing for people, during a very strange time. She balanced it well.
Hank and Moldaver are not the same. It's true that Moldaver has innocent blood on her hands. However Hank killed hundreds if not thousands of people. They took lives for different reasons as well. With Moldaver it was an act of vengeance. With Hank he was doing it to exterminate. He saw the people of Shady Sands as less than human.
My favourite character in fallout i wasn't sad when she died though.. it was the opposite..
Moldaver is a synth, write it down.
Moldaver could be a synth.
doubtful
She’s not though since synths are only on the east coast, unless you’re saying she went to the east coast. Then either got abducted by the Institute and replaced with a synth. Or somehow found the institute, convinced them to let her into the Institue, then let them replace her with a synth.
@eriksand9262 yeah, it is a stretch.
@@eriksand9262 She was a highly skilled scientist pre-war. She could have had connections with the Institute. Who says the synths are only on the east coast. They can travel. There are no mention of synths in the west coast games, but maybe that is because no one there knows about them
I doubt she made a deal more like an invitation for the raiders, she would of been feared in that part of the world hence the raiders doing whatever she commands of them due to fear of who she is,
yes she would of done whatever was required to see the release of cold fusion into the wasteland as it is the right thing to do, if successful then only her successful actions would of been recorded, like all accounts of history the victors past evils are not recorded, only the achievements are remembered as good or as the saviour of the world,
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who caught some sapphic vibes between Moldaver and Rose. I hope we find out that she was a synth or something and we're able to see her again in future seasons so we know for sure, because it seemed like a waste killing her off without telling her whole story (and it would explain how she was still alive, since synths don't age).
17:30 Their motivates are not equitable either. Hank's idea of peace is to kill everyone who isn't him basically. Not 'no factions', it's 'no other factions'. Moldaver's idea of peace on the other hand is to eliminate the need for conflict. Hank's idea of peace will need to be 'established' over and over again forever. Vault tec already killed the world and we know he killed shady sands, but how many other 'factions' have vault tec executives killed through out the last 200 years to make sure their vault was the only 'faction'? Moldaver's peace doesn't need to keep killing, she killed a small number of people so that there would be no need to fight over resources anymore. Those two things are still radically different.
The Shady Sands is VaultTec, vault 15 to be exact. Hank actions are even worst because of this.
Williams see people in the vaults as people in Matrix movies. None of them is "innocent" or how the store owner said "F**k the vaults". What she did was not revenge, it was a calculated action on enemy territory. After Vault 31 would decided to emerge, they would "clean" the surface, for the Greater Good. Vaults are enemies.
I think Hank is going to Vault 21, but he doesn't know that Mr. House cemented it. This is probably why he did it. There is something more to this vault.
Great thought. I just assumed he was after Mr. House.
@@YNotThough as far as I know, Mr. House hates VaultTec. Huge difference of opinions. He knew what was coming, obviously after the show, but from the game we know that he had other plans for Las Vegas and area around it.
There are however many other vaults in the area and it could be a totally new vault. But, the cementing the vault21 could probably of some use for the series.
@@webkeeper House knew there was something about Vault 21 otherwise why would he have actually cemented it. Could've left it for retail space and shit ya know
@@YNotThough I've spent so much time trying to get into the cemented area in game. I searched the whole city for secret entrances, even outside the city. I really hope that the second season will show me what they were hiding there.
@@webkeeper anything in the game files that you know of?
Maybe the cement bit was because a quest ended up on the cutting room floor. After all they barely had any time to actually make the game.
I'm very happy to meet Oxhorn new Fallout video.
And I was radicalized for caps and a free apartment BYE megaton
Considering Ms. Williams background as a top scientist and intellectual, I wouldn’t be surprised if she had deep connections with the Commonwealth Institute of Technology. I theorize that she had her brain scanned and consciousness copied to be restored in much the same way Nick Valentine was in Fallout 4. Unlike Nick, she was recreated in a Gen 3 body that replicated her original body.
After being resurrected, Williams was treated much like any other Institute synth, as subservient to the human residents regardless of her talents and potential. As someone who is very charismatic, I could very easily see her convincing members of the Institute to steal the knowledge and technology necessary to build a new synth program elsewhere well before the Institute’s destruction.
Here’s where things get interesting. Sarita Choudhury has teased her character’s return for season two despite her death in the season one finale, which leads me to believe this: Williams has recreated the synth program somewhere in the Wasteland with the aid of Institute defectors, and she has created multiple identical synths of herself that may have different names, personality variations, and other unique traits over time due to their individual experiences, but they are all just as brilliant and united in one goal: to make the Wasteland a better place for all and to protect it from those that would harm that betterment, from Vault-Tec and the Enclave to the Brotherhood of Steel.
With that in mind, I think we’ll meet another Moldaver, just under a different name and with a different mission, but with the same overarching goal.
Now, I feel that synths are too interesting to simply be limited to the Commonwealth and I find it very unlikely that the Institute and all the people within it are so shortsighted as to keep all their proverbial eggs in one basket. Good scientists believe in contingency, and even if the Institute overall was so arrogant as to believe they couldn’t be touched in their underground lair, over time its more disillusioned members might quietly create backups of their research and the equipment necessary to continue that research to store offsite. I also believe that the Railroad’s synth population wouldn’t be content to simply be an oppressed minority that depended on escaping Institute synths to grow their community.
Therefore, I think that at a very small scale, the technology needed to build new synths exists somewhere outside the Commonwealth, whether in operation or as an inactive cache. We haven’t seen the last of the legacies of the Institute.
Moldaver does look younger in Shady Sands retrospection than Miss Williams in 2077, therefore the clone idea feels more plausible.
I think that part of the reason she attacked Lucy's vault was because of her pain. Rose's selfish husband came from that vault and he took Rose from her. Moldaver was taking her anger out of them. She only spared them cuz she wanted revenge, but was still a kind person underneath her pain and desire to lash out.
She is not evil enough to be a true villain, but she is nowhere near virtuous enough nor are her achievements great enough to qualify as a savior. In short she is either an anti-hero or an anti-villain depending on your opinion.
this is a great way to put it!
@@hinasakukimi Why thank you.
Thank you for calling it Twitter instead of X. It's better that way.
I think we will see Muldaver again, in flashbacks, if not the present New Vegas, in Season 2. One theory I've heard that you didn't even bring up in this video was the possibility of her being a synth. We know that synths can be programmed with the memories of other people, so it's not entirely inconceivable that she's a synth that escaped the Institute is one way or another.
I went straight from a fall out kick into a (returning) Game of Thrones kick.
It’s interesting to see the similarities and themes between villains who don’t see themselves as villains - heroes, who don’t always act like heroes. This is even reflected with all the endings you are given a choices. None of them are clear decisions of good and bad (there’s a fair argument to be said about the Minute men- but just like how in Game of Thrones, the good guys are not entirely good I wouldn’t say that the minute men are the perfect choice for saving humanity).
And the game gives us hard decisions.
I’m hoping that these complication, or as George RR Martin says the internal conflict of a human heart-
Continues to be reflected in the fallout show . It’s easy to feel like they have already hit a Highpoint by explaining how the bombs were dropped. That is essentially the biggest moment in all of fallout because it gives explanations to it the biggest plot point of the story- that of the bombs dropping.
I’m hoping there’s something more hidden beneath -something more that we haven’t fully grasp. Im hoping the “fire mother” plot might be a hint at something deeper to the story that will make fallout more.
My apologies to anyone who has already purposed this -
If Moldaver was “on ice” in New Vegas with a 200 year wake-up then she would have woke up in 2277, the controversial date on the Vault 4 schoolroom blackboard.
I say she was a synth from fallout 4 like Nck valitine
Defeats the purpose of a playlist and auto play, IF YOU HAVE READY TO SHOP BEFORE EVERY VIDEO!!! No, I will NEVER shop. NOT even if I were on fire. Just because of this hoodwink! Love your scripts, delivery, tone, voice, and insight. Appreciate what you do.
Very "there's good people on both sides" take lol
She's pretty cool, I think. All she wanted was energy for the world and that's very selfless of her. Even if she had to resort to massacres.
Or she wanted to fulfill her egotistical desire to fire up the technology she made.
Such a good writer and narrator.
It's possible she was frozen by House. House has a plan that entirely relies on barely reformed tribals and Securitrons. He wants to restart the scientific fields. But you can't do that without scientists. It might make sense he has some staff on ice until it's the right time to deploy them.
Perhaps for some extra crunchy tinfoil, we could speculate that Moldaver found the hidden alien city in the Mohave desert (the existence of which is speculated by the Cabots) and she was actually semi-immortal!
I would honestly love it though if they showed the hidden alien city in the TV show.
Its almost like... War, War Never Changes
I questioned that. Were the raiders really raiders or were they NCR members? Why switch up factions?
Yeah some of them were mercenary type of raiders i guess
Because one guy wrote the first 3 episodes, but didn't have a completed story in mind when he handed it off to the ones who finished the plot; the story really falls apart on a second watch through.
I guess there were both. That's why she left them behind. Because they were raiders
@@Darkington it really doesnt
@@quietali Okay, simple example. Why did the Ghoul not kill Maximus in Filly if he knows how to instantly kill someone in power armor?
Pretty accurate and good analysis
Love these reviews keep it up!
Couldn't agree more.. they both seemed like they were equally trying to do the better good. "It means to an end"
Until we meet Moldaver in the flashbacks, I had small hope that she was actually Cooper's daughter who had slipped out of the grips of Bud's Buds and was all rogue in the wasteland.
Nope.
I didn't notice the billboard. If they showed it, it seems that it will be very important.
okay here's a bit of a stretch from my unknowledgeable opinion.
I think Moldaver is a synth. She is clearly an intelligent scientist, she seems to be "leading" a lecture on the faults of vault tec. She was a leading engineer for infinite energy. It's never stated she was not from CA, judging from the lecture it could be a ted talk esque activity.
The only other faction that has infinite energy would be the Institute. This would make some sense as if she was developing that technology, bought out by Vaulttec but continuing to be researched by Institute. The "life like" synths were around during Fallout 4, and the show takes place after I think. So the possibility for her to appear in Shady Sands and the Present in the show could both be shown to be synths.
I think she's an institute synth, but I don't know enough off hand to make a compelling argument. Maybe Oxhorn could though...
I mean moldaver going in with raiders and pillagers to Hanks vault to kidnap him and destroy everything hes worked and built for himself I think was just her way of getting back at him. Leaving some alive was mercy but it was also a nod to letting lasting trauma settle into the vault. You cant come back from that, same way she and so many others couldn't forget shady sands. I feel like if she needed Hanks codes but Rose was still alive, it wouldve been a different story. Assuming she was still persueing cold fusion, which I think she was. You can be in love, lead a resistance, and persue your lifes work, falling in love doesn't stop the world from turning.
She didn't maybe put hanks kids in danger. She knew. She put a raider up to marry her. She very well knew she was putting Lucy at risk. It's wild how little love she shows for lucy
I love the line that Maximus says, "Everybody wants to save the world, we just disagree on how to." It fitted so perfectly with the entirety of what Fallout is about. And we can even see it with these two characters (Hank and Mouldaver)
The end of Season 1 pulls back through New Vegas, advertising the Tops' Cryo Suites.
14:21 They were probably couriers who were paid with 200 caps
Muldaver was awakened by the enclave, which is how they got her cold fusion technology
I second your theory. The only thing I question is that there's no cryogenic technology that we know off in the West Coast beside Vault 31. We'll need to see this lore.
Maybe we'll see vault 0 made canon again.
Seeing how many soldiers she had at the observatory, I don't think the raiders were really necessary to infiltrate the vault. I imagine that part of her plan was some form of il-conceived revenge for shady sands. Even I don't think Moldaver would try to masquerade that act as for "the greater good." She was pissed and wanted to hurt who hurt her, there is no justification, only reason. And the reason is vengeance.
Side note "the greater good" is a slippery slope many villains have fallen down. Also, every time I hear it, it is immediately repeated thanks to that damned Hot Fuzz movie.
(Before finishing the video)
Everyone is the hero of their own story
I prefer the idea that she found a version of the Cabot family serum. This explains why she is awake when she is. Also why she would survive the destruction of shady sands.
you will never convince me anything other than Villian
Is it possible that Moldaver made a deal with Vault Tec or Barbara herself so she could continue her cold fusion research and actually be in a vault? Maybe when Cooper was separated from his daughter when the bombs dropped (I assume by force), Barbara and Moldaver were together? Perhaps it was Barbara herself that unfroze Moldaver so a world with free energy could allow her daughter to live, a daughter that might actually be still frozen. Remember that Barbara wasn't advocating for vaults to be the final answer, but rather Vault Tec leadership to control a future world once they returned to the surface. I could see her keeping her daughter frozen until she thought the world was ready. Maybe was was aging in the vault after being unfrozen for some time herself and decided it was now or never for her daughter's future, a future with free cold fusion energy. My wild theory falls apart with the revelation of the Tops Casino sign about their own pods. Nothing is added to the show without reason, and an alternative location for cryogenics makes sense for the next season's location.
I don’t mind that the writers introduced a complex character with admirable goals who went to horrific lengths to achieve them, as long as that was the goal. Like, I hope they don’t intend for us to see Moldaver as overall heroic.
I think it was a legitimate NCR unit I just think that she was using the unit more for personal goals that she was looking to achieve. But it does state above the door that it is an official NCR headquarters. The building is also covered in NCR flags.
Hank had to have known Moldaver, right? If not before the war, then at least when he went to Shady Sands to get his daughter and destroy it. So how did he not recognise her when she entered the vault? Even if he thought her dead, he still would have recognised her.
Maybe she was working with House before the end. When he re-emerges to take Vegas for himself after waking up from his "coma" he thaws her out and kicks her out of the Topps.
I'm not sure about the romantic angle with Rose. Possible, yes, but I'm not convinced that it's necessarily the case.
I do agree that it was probably a deal with the raiders.
Hey Ox. Love all the lore videos. Was wondering when you plan on finishing the brotherhood and minuteman endings on fallout 4.
I think she's a synth.
I must say I also strongly disagree with her being in love with Rose. I think she appreciated her freeing her children in the hopes of escaping the vault prison and giving her children a chance of freedom. I think Rose warned her about the bomb and Hanks plan and allowed her to escape. I think Rose in a way sacrificed herself. And it's this sacrifice that is why she was left as a Ghoul.
watching the first season it didnt bug me at first, but by the end I was like, this moldaver lady makes no sense, basically bringing in a raiding party into a vault. killing potentially tons of innocent people. and how did she get here, and she died without meeting the ghoul, i dunno, lotta loose ends
I think she kept Ghoul Rose as a conscience prodderfor Hank. I think she wanted Lucy to find them and confront her with his past - and it worked . If she was a scientist she might have made her own chryo arrangements . Terrifc series .
When it came t the ghoul of Rose, I tend to agree with some other people who think that Rose probably wasn't feral the whole time.
I am betting the NCR is no more. The "plaque with "NCR HQ" is just a relic from the past. Griffin Observatory is in LA, not shady sands.
After the events of New Vegas, Vaultec, or perhaps another faction like Ulysses bombed New Vegas, as you can see from the ending scenes in the final Season 1 episode that New Vegas has been destroyed.
I'm still more curious about her Cold Fusion tech, how does it work exactly, how's it different to anything else such as say what keeps Liberty Prime powered which leads me too Moldaver's own question, what or how exactly will the Brotherhood of Steel use it, are they really going to just yank the plug, depower Hollywood and keep it somewhere safe until they can find the technology to, I don't know, make high powered rechargeable cores with more time and energy to them then nuclear fusion?
My current theory is the raiders are the Khans. That's the only raider group with strong enough ties to the NCR one way or another to care that shady sands was nuked.
Ox I have a question you may be able to solve. I have watched the series, as well as several reactions and found something interesting. In the finale, when Norm looks at the Cryo pods, one of them half way down the left side seems to be flickering. Is thias a sign of one failing, or is robo-Bud secretly trying to open to get someone to help handle Norm? Or maybe something else. If words have meaning, actions should as well.
Your thoughts? Thanks much in advance…you are my goto guy for all lore!
Moldaver made quite the impact on the show.
I think it is much more likely that Moldaver is a synth, like the Sole Survivor. No matter what, she's going to pop up again in Season 2 in Cooper's flashbacks and may very well reappear in the present. Westworld loved bringing people back from the dead and synths are bound to show up sooner or later.
Also we don't know for sure that Cooper was ghoulified in the opening sequence, only that he ultimately becomes one. The man is still looking for his family and there's every reason to think his daughter made it into cryo with his wife. There's absolutely more to come for him after the Vault-Tec meeting *and* in the immediate aftermath of the bombs falling.
MY THEORY: I think she survived with mass fusion. My idea comes from the beryllium agitator. No other place has advanced nuclear technology than vault tec and mass fusion. From the terminal in fallout 4 in the mass fusion building we learn that mass fusion was a sham and that they sold fission tech marketed as fusion and that they only recently mastered fusion technology within a year of the bombs dropping right before the great war. I think if anyone has the means to keep her alive it would be mass fusion and I bet she made a deal to help develop the agitator.