Rise and Fall of the Terran Empire
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ค. 2020
- This is a series of Rise and fall!
Trek Chapters!
================================================
Want More Lore?!
Star Trek Lore: goo.gl/McF2i5
Star Wars Lore: goo.gl/Hzyrk2
Battle Star Galactica Lore: goo.gl/jpPPUY
Star Trek Dominion War: goo.gl/fmwtPf
================================================
Twitter: / lorereloaded
Facebook: / lorereloaded
Twitch: / lorereloaded
Patreon: / lorereloaded
================================================
Come Hang out while I play..
Mixer: goo.gl/YhgNiE
Twitch: goo.gl/kiVw8w
===============================================
Citations! These are my most often used resources:
Memory Alpha: memory-alpha.wikia.com/
Trekyards: / knightstalker666
Spacedock: / @spacedock
Ex Astria Scientia - www.ex-astris-scientia.org/sca...
================================================
The music in this video is licensed Royalty Free.
Songs:
Music by:
© 2017 Epidemic Sound - บันเทิง
I hope one day there will be a Star Trek movie featuring the Mirror Universe and a rebuilt Terren Empire as the main antagonists in an all-out invasion story
a terran empire versus the dominion. both sides are not good guys, but there are good aspects of each.
@@jamoecw wait, you mean _Prime_ Dominion? Because...
@@joeo5139 dang dude good idea
Much BETTER. to be ENSLAVED,than to be a SlaveMaster!
That would be cool. Shit, I could watch a whole series. Badass antiheroes on a ship with crazy rules, running around killing rebels and conquering planets would make for good entertainment.
Star trek -An Empire couldn't survive in a "kill your superior to advance" strategy.
Star wars- Sith Empire nervously gives a like😨
Star wars acknowledged that as well in the darth bane books too many sith with training would lead to them undermining and sabotaging their superiors so darth bane fixed the problem by wiping all of them except for himself and then recruit zannah, because he was the last sith, zannah was always in a precarious position where her completing her training rested solely on bane's survival until it was finished once that happened she would then dispose of him and continue the sith legacy.
@@sebas8225 i know, he brought the rule of two, and brought lengthy balance to the dark side. Soooo much lore thats beyond awesome and isn't even touched by the (animation) film universes. Could you imagine a darth Nihilus horror origin story.
Late Rome too
then explain klingons
I loved the mirror universe in DS9. You can tell that the cast was all in. Regent Worf all day.
All Hail the Terran Empire - the best ST series never made
The Terran Empire: Some of the most enjoyable content in Trek history and just the bees knees.
Many years back, there was this TNG book about the Mirror Universe called Dark Mirror. In it, the Terran Empire never fell and, rather than being conquered, the Vulcans (who never moved beyond their pre-Surak culture, were full and willing partners of the Terrans. In addition, while snooping through his counterpart's effects, Picard finds that the Shakespearean plays are radically different than he remembers. Funky, huh?
I remember that novel. I enjoyed it.
Yes I read that - still have the copy in my collection and very much enjoyed it. It would have made a great film, although the super intelligent dolphin mathematician might have been a hard role to cast!
The VANGUARD novels would also have made for a great TV series too - in fact there are many of the novels which could have been adapted for TV or film which would have made for better stories than what they came up with.
Those were good books....IMO
@Jason Lee Trater Anything is better than Discovery.
@@kal0247 I only recall bits and pieces of them. Have you read them recently?
Remember that we only have The Intendent's word on how The Terran Empire fell. I'd actually like to offer an alternative explanation - There were two events in The 23rd century that almost completely destroyed the prime universe, but it was only averted because of Kirk and an unlikely series of events... I'm of course referring to V'Ger and The Whale Probe. Either of these could have completely decimated The Federation without Kirk's intervention.
Assuming that Kirk is now removed from The Mirror universe, could it be that either or both of these events completely wiped their power base out, creating a weakened Terran Empire that was ripe for conquest?
There is likely a Universe where the Terran Empire did not fall.
Possibly the Voyager 6 probe would have never been sent in the mirror universe, or would have been sent in a different direction, completely averting V'ger. Similar conditions could have averted the Whale Probe. Fun to think about.
I really wish TNG had explored the mirror universe. Could’ve made for an excellent two-parter or movie
that's what star trek nemesis shloudve been
ok maybe not, but still be interesting
PICARD could, the Mirror universe has always been visited in the uneven shows (okay... before TAS was cannonised) ;P
Seek out Diane Duane's novel Dark Mirror. The crew of the I.S.S Enterprise-D seek to capture the crew of the Enterprise-D. This novel seems more realistic as Spock appears to have been "Taken out" by an unamed captain on "trumped up" charges.
Thought the Terran Empire had already fallen by then.
I've always found it strange that the same people are usually alive in both the mirror and prime universes
The implications of that are drastic. Basically if anyone's counterpart from another dimension/timeline dies, it means they aren't going to have any more children.
They've also mentioned in beta canon the idea of timelines eventually 'merging'...ie if a temperal incursion causes a split in the timeline, events will happen in both to cause them to end up in an identical state, and thus merge back together...that would imply the prime timeline planet Vulcan is due for destruction, as the planet has been destroyed in the Kelvin timeline.
Prime Bareil died.
Not to mention often in the same position. The way of gaining rank in the mirror universe alone would cause massive butterfly effects.
-No human character, nor any of the ancestors needed for them to exist, were killed by a power hungry subordinate
-No alien character, nor any of their ancestors needed for them to exist, were killed by humans while being violently subjugated
-Multiple generations of parents despite following radically different cultural ideals and governing structure, still hooked up in both universes and had their kids at presumably the same moment in order to result in the same people
-Any 'new people' who resulted in different outlooks on child production, not to mention the usual population surges you get after big wars, never threatened a character nor their ancestors enough to shake up the chain of ancesttry, and for the most part, are all entirely offer screen
-Discovery added in sun sensitivity to the Terrans, something that wasnt brought up in this video, which while seemingly small is bound to also impact much of the above.
Effectively, the mirror universe is trying really hard to be a mirror. Despite branching off around 1000 years ago, there's far too much that needs to fall into place for people to all be the same, and even be oddly similar mirrors of eachother.
Temporal Inertia.
It could be that there is a _strange attractor_ that links both universes, so that they have a connection - and that could explain why Kirk got swapped with Kirk.
These are parallels that are connected to each other, and in fact one of them could a shadow or echo of the prime timeline. Pursuing a different path but still being dragged along by the prime universe, thus the cross contamination.
What's also weird is the Terran Empire got their ships from hijacking Vulcan ships, and then no doubt get their hands on Andorians and others ships - yet still develop a ship that looks almost identical to a Starfleet vessel that was designed after a hundred years of Vulcan patronage and control held Humanity back.
Vulcans became terrified of The Earth BOOMSTICK lol.
Nice army of darkness reference
For me the mirror universe was always that poorly shown "what if" side story. That said I tend to think that they had better uniforms.
uh especialy the female ones?
@@sovietdominion Mirror Hoshi. Need I say more?
@@seand.g423 I have a counter to that...Troy doing Yoga
Edit..Or Troys nightgown without bra
"Beware of Vulcans bearing reforms", as they say.
if you find the Terran Empire strange. just look at the Mirror Borg they are Really Really strange.
NORMAL BORG = PVZ ZOMBIES
MIRROR BORG= WWZ ZOMBIES
I miss the Terran Empire, I would like to have seen the Terrans vs the dominion
PROBABLY AN ALLIANCE AGAINST THE K N C A, NOW REDUCE TO A RESISTENCE
There was a good comic that showed the empire trying to invade the federation, it went in to things tech that was different and how some tech did the same thing but functionally was different,
Also that Constitution class defiant was supposed to be the same defiant that was lost to the Tholians in the TOS episode where the USS Defiant fades out of our dimension and into the empire dimension
I've read the series you're referencing, where Mirror Barclay tried to replace his counterpart because he hated living in the Mirror Universe.
And this also raises the question of the Tholians capability to transverse time and universes. They caused the Defiants disappearance from the prime universe & received it in the mirror universe…hardly a coincidence I think.
What if this is only one of many Mirror Universes? And there are others that never had prime Kirk convince Mirror Spock, leading to the collapse.
Perhaps in some they became more benevolent slowly, as their definition of a Terran grew to include loyal alien members of the Empire/Greater Terran Union…
In others they are still just as viscous and are still the evil empire dominating all - Q would be depressed and it's interesting how they would cope with the Borg.
There is another beta canon timeline where Khan won the eugenics wars and the Augments took over and eventually all of humanity become genetically enhanced supermen with the same faulty design of one neurotransmitter causing hightend aggression and ego.
All of humanity is Augments and they go on to create a vast Empire of conquest that makes the mirror universe humans look sweet in comparison.
Every ship has a personality simulation of _"Khan"_ to act as a spiritual guide. And humans keep getting more enhanced so that they are incredibly formidable, A human can not only bitch slap a Klingon, but could intimidate a Hirogen.
And what if there's a mirror universe that isn't _that_ bad, the humans are just now pragmatic, but still friendly and peace loving (but in a _prepare for war_ philosophy), it's just they reverse engineer anything they get in their possession and still have the MACOS on board ships - that would be quickly redesigned to take advantage of that stolen Suliban Cell Ship.
And they don't get shortchanged by treaties with Romulans.
All of these are far more interesting than what we have now.
There's a German CGI fan film in which Archer and Enterprise encounter holograms of Mirror Universe Kirk, Spock and Scotty. They originated from a Mirror Universe in which the Terran Empire discovers how to make the transferrable between Universes work. But in attempting to invade our Universe they instead cross over into a Universe that has another Terran Empire. But one that has 24th century technology and carontains no biological beings. In that Universe, the Empire developed Skynet, Skynet unleashed the Terminators, and Skynet got it's hands on 24th century tech when that Universes ISS Voyager showed up in 1996. The Skynet Defense system was built around the self aware computer from Captain Braxton's 29th century time shuttle. Skynet wiped out Voyagers crew by beaming 150 Terminators onboard and then used the shops weapons to sterilize the planet of all humans. It then built a fleet of Intrepid class starships, sought out and wiped out the Borg, and then sterilized the entire Milkyway Galaxy
Sound like Fred Saberhagen's Berserkers stories. Unliving Von Neumann machines traveling about destroying all life.
There's no way that a universe with that much war and murder could be a mirror of ours. Too many people would simply not be born. My favorite episode is when Quark and Rom visit there. Rom's observations regarding how ridiculous it all was were hilarious. Vic Fontaine getting killed as a flesh and blood character let us know the writers understood at that point how absurd the whole concept was. Also, when Rom asks "so who's the president of the federation, Gul Dukat?!" 😆
That Spok's reforms were popular, or that he even rose to power in the first place are facts that fit the lore like Rosie O'Donnell in a string bikini.
Well then.... thank you for that visual.
Kinda have to dive into novels to make a bit of sense.
@@sid2112 My pleasure Sidney. 😂
Ahhhhhhhh my mind's eyes have been soiled!
I was always surprised that no one on the bridge just shot Hoshi in the back and claim the Defiant for themselves. Right when she said " this is Empress Hoshi Sato" then ZAP!! This is now Emperor/Empress ( insert relevant name here)
Some janitor would become emperor or the male members of the crew probably thought they could tap that and become emperor down the road.
She knew how to manipulate people way better than Mirror Archer did...who do you think you'd have a longer lifespan serving under?
The observations about how unstable yet improbably successful the Terran Empire was, combined with thoughts in the comments about how unlikely it is that same/similar people would exist between these universes, has me thinking. In particular, it reminds me of theories about how the prime Starfleet/Federation has likely been able to prosper thanks to some truly long-shot chances and occurrences that possibly could have been the result of subtle interference from Section 31 and/or Temporal agents. Maybe there's some transtemporal or interdimensional party that has benefited from the presence of the Terran Empire in the mirror universe timeline.
I mean yeah, the mirror universe ultimately serves as nifty what-if narrative idea, but hey, it can be fun to consider.
Another awesome video!
Let us never forget that Sisko used the Mirror universe as an excuse to bone Dax.
I like The Terran Empire it's an interesting alternate timeline one I think could survive a Series or 2 but it is definitely flawed it needed the reform it got and Archer being poisoned by Hotso makes no sense.
He would check everything and trust no one knowing the dangers a Man in his position faced.
Respect Lore keep up the epic work 😃👍🏻⭐️.
that's what I think discovery should have been. first season you've got a brand new drive system that's on the frits and the klingon war. Stick to that story for the first season. Then at the very last episode of the season just after the klingons finally broker a non aggression pact the discovery itself ends up in the mirror dimension. And they have to figure out where they are how it happened and try to get back while being just one ship in a whole fleet.
I think Mirror Archer though was so arrogant & his hubris was his downfall.
Neither archer being a Commander, Hoshi or Georgiou becoming Empress make any sense according to what we've seen of these Mirror Universes. The Mirror counterparts tend to lead a darker, brutal version of their prime counterparts lives.
@@sandrasnow-balvert7766 yes I agree. Everyone that had anything to do with Disgracery should be placed in an agony booth on maximum. For the rest of their natural lives.
I do not accept the STD entries into this, I would postulate that Georgiou's Mirror Universe was not the one we saw in TOS, DS9 or even Enterprise. In fact it is possible the Terran Empire seen in Enterprise was also a different Mirror Universe than the one viewed in TOS. As the Mirror Universe shown in TOS precisely reflected the prime Universe, it is clear to me that the Terran Empire deveioped technology in the same rate and the same fields as the Prime Universe. The USS Defiant would have seen a more advanced Terran Empire by the TOS period.
I'd like to think of the terrain empire as a eastern Roman/Byzantine empire which continued to grow after it reached its hightes under the emperor Justinian I - not only retaking Rome for the Romans, but expanding further and retaking the former western provinces over the centuries, and then later conquering the earth.
As far as the unreliability of the terren way of living (killing for promotion), it could in some ways be viewed in the same way as the idea of a klingon first officer being able to kill their captain -- appearing brutal on the outside, but making sense on the inside. Likewise the terren counter point could be that a junior officer could only get away with killing a superior if that superior was disliked/not trusted. That would explain why Burnham was applauded by her mirror crew, as they didn't share the same level of repect for her mirrors replacement as captian as they did her. Likewise it could explain why Commader Archer never killed Captain Forrest, as Forrest likley commanded a lot more respect from the crew, so a rebellion against him could never work. In short it's a very Roman idea of Legionneirs and centurious being loyal to their generals more than they are Rome, going so far as to support their generals when they crown themselves emperor and oppose the "rightful" emperor(s). Also, with Mirror Hoshi, there's obviously a lot more subtlety to the game of gain support, followers and power - so much so that an ensign can claim the captaincy and later the imperial throne.
As for the system not being able to sustain itself, you are 100% correct (i mean, roman history just proves that despite how amazing it is to read, the system doesn't work and eventurally collapses due to civil wars and internal strife which is them dealt the killing blow from the enemies beyond). The terrains pretty much had their equivalent of ww3, and were able to rebuild and conquer thanks to first contact, allowing them to once again battle the enemeis beyond their borders. But after around 100 years of imperial conquest on a galactic scale the old problems which resulted in their post-apocalypptic 21st century horror turn up again - to fast an expansion, rebellions within the empire as well as skirmishes along the borders, blame being placed on weak/poor leadership, etc. For all practical purposes the 22nd century should have seen the fall of the terrain empire BUT, similar to how first contact gave the solar-system bound terren empire a new lease on life for a century, the appearance of the USS Defiant gave the dying empire another shot of life, as now with 23rd century technology (and databases) they could subdue the enemies within and destroy their enemies beyond (the destruction of Kronos). They could build bigger more powerfull vessels, they could conquer more territories, but despite that infighting would be their downfall. I mean Lorcas rebellion could be viewed in a similar way to a roman general trying to usurp the emperor and failing, and i mean both withiin the fact that he literally was that but also that in roman history there were many generals who did such things and likley many terrain captains and admirals/officers. To many generals trying to overthrow a throne probably made life for terrain citiens hell as conquering a new territoy and its resources becomes problematic when the leadership and laws governing the new territories change with every coup and the governors of those new territories are loyal to the old throne not the new = having to re-conquer worlds which were already part of the empire. In that light, Spocks reforms were likley embraced because they would have offer stability, which would be good for their buisnesses and livelyhoods.
Unfortunatly, because most of the usserpers hailed from the massive imperial fleet, and the very nature of imperial officers waas to gain power if they saw weakness, it was logically easier to dismantle the fleet (and thereby removing the instrument of possible rebellion against spock) than reform it - its possible that spock was planing on re-building the fleet from the ground up, but installing the officers and crews who serve in it new ideals which would prevent any rebellions from them, but unfortunatlly the cardassians and klingsons made their move.
Yes, thank you. I had a feeling that everything in Trek is based on humanity's history.
4:45 I doubt that the Terran Empire was completely destroyed by the Alliance, I believe the empire lost a huge amount of territory and was reduced to just the Terran Solar System like what we saw in the mirror broken comics. While the events of the crossover episodes in DS9 is happening, the Terran Empire is slowly rebuilding it’s fleet, waiting for the moment to strike back and bring the Alliance to its knees.
I loved the TOS mirror universe, really liked Enterprise's take on it, Meh on DS9 and hated STD's. I would really like to see the Terran empire explored in some traditional Star Trek setting. I think there's a lot of good stories to be told there.
This has made me wonder...was Hoshi an ancestor of Georgiou?
This made me wonder, was Archer an ancestor or Kirk, McCoy, Scotty, Picard, Riker, etc. etc. white people
@@jamsea389 Good point.
@@buddyadams4781 I believe she’s being facetious, demonstrating that the assumption that non-white people of the same race is a racist trope.
Phillipa isn’t even Japanese, she’s Filipina, she’s got as much chance being related to Hoshi as she does Admiral Forrest or a security guard on the Enterprise.
@@faded9581 I thought she was Malaysian
There are so many stories that can be written about The Terran Empire it's crazy. Even though there is not a lot of material to go on, but it's still an interesting subject to explore.
Great vid! Thanks for the early view!
For fun I had created a scenario of a Federation crew with help from the Free Peoples of the Romulin/Klingon Union (mirror universe) steal the ISS Conqueror (ship concept, 4x size+ of 1701-D) before it was used against the remaining FP-R/KU members. Returning to the Prime Universe prior to the resolution of the bug invasion ("Conspiracy") with near disastrous results. ;-)
The Dominion would logically be equivalent to the federation. Either that or the Founders chose to hide themselves from the solids and thus never "dominated" the threatening species.
Machiavelli wrote about it, how to cunningly keep power for the sake of power. The Roman and Otoman Empires sometimes filled precisely it. To integrate people in your culture while keeping control, showing your hands every once in a while. Showing good will with your allies and a strong hand with dissidents, having a strong, well disciplined military, that and killing political adversaries and generals that defy or belay orders, etc. Sun Tzu also talked a little about conquest, it's best in the long term to treat your enemies' people and prisoners better than your own soldiers, not only to break their will to fight, but showing that your cause is greater, potentially turning them into allies or the very least not an immediate threat.
In the novel, Dark Mirror, the Empire never fell and crushed both the Romulan and Klingon Empires.
Facinating thing is that in the most recent episode of Discovery the mentioning of: Daughter of Rome. This means Rome did not really fall but continued on in a certain way.
I for one would love to see a series set fully in the MU.
However, I don't think the Empire would be all "murder to advance" etc. It just couldn't function like that.
I think that only the truly ambitious were like that and that they generally gravitated to the high profile ships & postings, leaving the less glamorous (but equally important) jobs to those who just wanted to get by.
You are right, of course. The Terran Empire could only be used as a plot device because first it would have no problem conquering every planet. It would also have the Imperial problem of bloated military budget causing shortage and unrest thus expansion, more pacification, more shortage until it collapses. It rots from internal pressure like Rome.
I'm a sucker for the mirror universe episodes.
I liked the mirror universe more when it was depicted as an "evil version" of the prime universe. I feel they lost that when DS9 made the plucky Terran resistance the protagonists of their struggle and so I like to believe they won, and beat the Klingons and then themselves began eradicating or subjugating the worlds formerly under Klingon control. Though....I also thought it was hilarious that (one version of the) Mirror-Picard was jacked and wore sleeveless uniforms to show off his guns, so I may have no taste.
Anyone else notice he switches from Terran Empire to Terran Dominion early in the video and keeps going with Terran Dominion?
I wouldn't say it was the reforms alone that caused the collapse of the empire, but the speed of those reforms. Slow change allows society to adjust, rapid change brings chaos. This is along the same philosophy that advises against giving advanced technology to less advanced cultures.
'Fairest of Them All' needs to be watched as part of the ST Mirrorverse.
In a few beta canon novels her dynasty lasted until Kirk became the captain of the ISS Enterprise. Empress Sato lll
I've had a thought for years that a core of systems stays (Sol, Andoria, Vulcan, and Denoubela) in the empire while others get conquered over time in an Eastern Roman Empire fashion. Rise and fall to rise. Like true Romans.
There was a comic book mini series of Terran Picard and almost all of the major TNG characters in the mirror universe
Maybe what destroyed the Terran Empire was the mirror univers "Q" that did the same and presented the Borg to the Terran Empire, but this time the Terran Empire was assimilated successfully compared the prime univers counterpart that defeated the Borgs.
I could see a mirror universe Enterprise not bending the knee to Q's power and asking for an out, instead going out with a fight, leading to assimilation of their ship cause of course the Borg are way more powerful than the Enterprise D
Oh, NOW we're talking! You really know where live, don't you, my brother?
Fine work, sir, and with so little information. I've never heard anyone put it all together.
By the way, have you seen "The Fairest of them all"? It's the Star Trek Continues episode that's a direct sequel to "Mirror, Mirror". I'm very fond of them, and they were in finest fettle in the Mirrorverse.
Nothing is as terrifying as a empire who goes wild with the Be-dazzler
I always thought the best way to explain the mirror universe was that the timeline created by the Dr. McCoy's entry into the past, thru the Guardian of Forever, and allowing Germany to win WW2 led to the Empire, even though the Guardian had said afterwards all had been "restored". Another thought was the odd character you see standing next to Cochran in the "Enterprise" episode "A Mirror Darkly" and not present in the original "First Contact" movie - was in fact a "Q" altering the timeline to bring the Empire into existence over the Federation for reasons only the Q know (but we as fans can speculate)
Yeah you are correct it was supposed to be a four-part series McCoy goes back in time saves the saves the social worker. They go back in time by that act the Nazi's took over and is the Empire story. But they cut it in half because the story was too long, so they just made it two parts of a different story so how the Empire formed is all up in the air most people say it's Anicent Rome.
Terran empire history confusing? Haha, my head hurts.
History is written by the victors, as we've heard in Trek. It wouldn't suprise me that every other Emperor/Empress would slant things to their liking...Gowron did it when he took over the KDF Council in the Prime timeline.
@@Corbomite_Meatballs not KDF council, it's the Klingon High Council....the KDF is their version of starfleet...
you're right about the rest though....
but we can't accept prime timeline info cus it's not real star trek....
look the trek universe breaks down like this
TOS , TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT are all the real timeline
Trek 09 started the Kelvin timeline
STD and STP are part of the prime timeline which is not part of the real timeline
prime was invented to placate fans but is still a result of the old CBS & Paramount split which also paved the way for Kelvin....basically they said oh you don't like the new movies? well here's a new thing we'll call prime it has the old history intact but that is a lie, it has the old history but they've been subverting the history and breaking canon.....
but the good news is when someone untangles the legal side they can go in and say TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT are canon and movies TMP-Trek 6 are canon....
th-cam.com/channels/vrd6VtgWF7CwaZH1S0N-Qg.html
th-cam.com/channels/BNyrK-MTsjnQ7y6U-Eg3kA.html
^Midnight's Edge and ME After Dark have vids detailing what I said
look you can accept the broken new canon or you can dismiss it cus it doesn't fit...when people incorporate that crap in their docs it just legitimizes the hack storytelling they've been doing and further hurts the franchise.....
I’d be interested in a mirror universe where the Terran Empire was founded by Khan Noonien Singh and his fellow super humans, or their descendants. Like if they were never overthrown and instead ruled into the future
Thanks Tholians.
Wish we got more content with the Tholians. Love them almost as much as I love my space wizards, the Iconians.
The Tholians actually used fairly well in STO.
@@Corbomite_Meatballs Yes, and I wish we can get some canon stuff with them, like my space wizards. But I doubt will be seeing heralds and/or iconians from sto in canon material anytime soon.
I know the books are only Beta canon, but I love how they explored Spock's rise to power, how he predicted that reforms alone would not be enough to change the Terrans to being peaceful and that he basically engineered the fall of the Empire and put in safeguards to protect its culture for when the rebellion inevitably occurred that would get them their freedom which would allow the Terrans to truly appreciate their freedom and what it meant, utilizing things like their version of the Genesis project.
They had scenes from the point of view of the Klingons scoffing at how weak Spock was scaling back Starfleet, but noting that how his reforms meant he needed far less force to maintain internal security and thus the effective border strength was unchanged. But the biggest moment to me was a conversation Emperor Spock had with the a Romulan Senator at a peace conference Spock hosted after the explosion of Praxis:
Allowing himself a moment to absorb Spock’s argument, Pardek leaned back in his chair and idly stroked his chin. “If I might be permitted to inquire, Your Majesty … what did you expect would be the outcome of this summit?”
“An alliance between the Klingons and the Cardassians,” Spock said. “Now that Gorkon lacks sufficient fleet power to conquer my empire alone, he and Legate Renar of Cardassia will negotiate a pact predicated on the goal of destroying the Terran Empire. The Tholian Assembly and the Romulan Star Empire will declare themselves neutral even as they seize several remote systems. The Breen and the Gorn, being consummate opportunists, will work as mercenaries; they will aid the Cardassians and Klingons in their conquest of Terran space. This will all transpire within approximately two years of this conference’s end.”
What horrified Pardek most about Spock’s prediction wasn’t its specificity but rather that the Vulcan Emperor had delivered it with such tranquility. “If you know all this is coming to pass,” Pardek replied, “why do you plan to refuse the Praetor’s offer of alliance? Why let your empire be conquered when we could help you defend it?”
Spock replied with terrifying certainty. “Because the fall of my empire will mean the end of all of yours.”
Spock was essentially the Terran Empire's Gorbachev.
I thought the Terran Empire survived past the original Star Trek episode. I read a book based upon the Next Generation enterprise where the crew of the Enterprise went up against their mirror universe counterparts. And I believe I saw an episode of Deep Space nine have a mirror universe episode where the Terran Empire was still around. On that last one thought, I may be mistaken about the Terran Empire being in the episode. It may have just been a mirror universe episode without the Terran Empire.
A follow-up comic shows that after Georgiou’s supposed death, her cousin Alexander took over... before being assassinated by the returned Burnham... who herself was assassinated shortly after. Yeah, I believe TV Tropes calls it the Chronic Backstabbing Disorder
I haven’t followed much of this outside of the original episode Mirror, Mirror but once you explained how Spocks political liberalization of the Terran Empire led to its ultimate destruction by its enemies i laughed SO hard for about 5 minutes. Thanks for that!
LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE
I think the terrain empire, is a example of what would have occurred had the Roman Empire not been destroyed. I often wonder if the Borg or the Dominion a good guys in the alternate universe.
3:03) That's a USS Constellation (NCC 1017) Class Star Ship.
Great thumbnail choice.
Will you be doing an updated version of this video now that Terra Firma parts 1 and 2 are out?
I will, along with an update on the temporal war
That first contact scene for the mirror universe caught me so off guard when I was watching ENT. Stay well out there everybody, and Jesus Christ be with you friends.😊
The one thing from Discovery I would like to keep (i.e., everything else I would love to be De-cannonized), is the Mirror Universe stuff.
I have always wondered if Empress Philipa was a descendant of Empress Hoshi, myself.
6:18 Spock gives Kirk a book "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. Message Spock?"
Spock says "None that I'm conscious of". WoK.
6:20 There IS a message in there. It's simple.
"The Mirror Universe is an evil place. The biggest evil, therefore, wins."
Its Funny that we are living in a mirror universe right now with so much evil in this world.
Well then. Shall we rise up and unify the planet? XD
We are probably the Klingons of our Universe.
More like salem witch trials.
@@PandoraKin564 In the Mirror Universe they unified the planet by fighting World War III with nuclear weapons. Don't think e want to do that.
@@scotthuska3403 Never said how... Lol
The Terran Empire is one of those things that becomes less cool the more we see it and learn about it.
if they were going to make more Terran stories, it should have been more serious than sex and backstabbing since it makes no sense that an empire that eradicate could even dominate in a space faring age (even Klingons suffered decline)
I wouldn't be surprised if the origin of the Terran Empire was a Imperial Rome Revival movement at some point in the Renaissance.
Making the empire "a thousand years old" might just be propaganda.
A divergence point would be the how the Renaissance was obsessed with classical Greek and Roman aesthetics. In our timeline, it expressed itself in arts and philosophy, with Greek thinking being predominant.
Now imagine a parallel timeline where the Byzantine Empire was just slightly different. It kept a domain in Italy for longer and kept roman imperial symbols more alive. The European renaissance at the fall of Constantinople starts when artists and intellectuals from the Byzantine aristocracy flees to European cities. But in that parallel timeline, they also bring imperial symbols and more ambition. Small changes in some European countries, more continuity with Byzantine families... and you get the Paleologos heirs in Florence and on the throne of Imperial Spain. You get pure Byzantine intrigues and manipulation all the way to the modern era.
Love this. One correction: the Empire died when Georgiou the Great 😍 disappeared. But someday she'll return to Make Earth Great Again. MEGA!
I heard claim that one of ideas floating around ST:ENT production crew was to have a whole season be a story in the Mirror universe. Supposedly that is part of the reason they were willing to make a whole new intro for It would have been used to help make the season distinctive.
I know that in one of Shatner's books, the prime and mirror universe split when Cochran flipped a coin whether to tell the Vulcans of the borg because he remembered the events of first contact.
My opinion is that The Mirror Universe episodes were a fun little side diversion that Discovery took way to damn far in the first season. Lorca was pretty cool tho, and he managed to function fairly well as a Starfleet captain for being a supposedly evil doppelganger. So, would that mean Prime Lorca was a real son of a bitch? Hmmm...
They need to do a mirror universe series where the Dominion or Borg are the good guys.
I don’t think the Terran Empire is an exact continuation of the Roman Empire but that it was inspired by the Roman Empire and modelled itself as it’s successor. A “Third Rome” if you will.
Maybe
For added context, I suggest you see these:
Starship Farragut - 1x02 - For Want of a Nail
th-cam.com/video/GDeE01J1jy4/w-d-xo.html
Starship Farragut The Crossing
ps://th-cam.com/video/-ZpVMDJrT20/w-d-xo.html
Star Trek Continues E03 "Fairest of Them All"
th-cam.com/video/dJf2ovQtI6w/w-d-xo.html
While I understand why you didn't mention it here, I would've liked to see some content from after DS9 concerning the Terran Empire. And why they seem to still be around in STO
My biggest gripe about STO is not making the sleeveless vest available in the TOS Terran Uniform set.
I thought it was available in the game? Now that you mentioned it, I'll have to check again.
I still don't understand why the Terran Empire would build a discovery, since that implies that it too has a spore drive.
i know its not canon but the comics give a lot more infos about what happened in between. you should make a video including the beta canon of the MU
And then the Borg came in and assimilated everyone...
1:47 “Terran Dominion Space Program” - I assume one of their first interstellar forays was into the Koprulu Sector? ;D
2:56 feels like my game play in stuff like Stellaris lol instead of going at a slow pace
I want a side series of the terran empire, but I feel it would also get rid of the sligh air of mystery, making it less interesting if they did that
Well, we're getting a show with the empress as lead character in Section 31, thats close.
I know the Shatnerverse books were unpopular, but they did have an interesting way explaining the creation of the Mirror Universe. It happened on the morning after first contact, with Cochrane flipping a coin on whether to tell the Vulcans about the Borg. In the Mirror Universe, he did. The knowledge of such a powerful enemy resulted in a military alliance between the two races that eventually evolved into the Terran Empire.The books were written before ENT, mind you.
After Kirk’s visit, Mirror Spock helped his own Kirk rise through the ranks, eventually becoming Emperor Tiberius (how’s that for a Roman connection?). Spock then staged a bloodless coup, but Tiberius escaped. While Regent Spock was instituting his reforms, Tiberius went to Klingons and Cardassians and convinced them to ally against the weakened empire. Naturally, they had no intention of honoring their side of the bargain: to make him regent of Terra. Instead they laid waste to the planet and tried to kill him. He fled and put himself in cryosleep aboard a ship he’d prepared in advance. But the timer failed and he ended up sleeping for a century instead of just a year. He was found by an Alliance scout ship. When they discovered who he was, they were overjoyed and wanted to bring him back to be executed. Tiberius seduced a Klingon woman and fled with her help, “rewarding” her by slitting her throat. He then went to Terra, where he still had a secret bunker under the devastated surface and began to plot. Said plotting involved the Prime universe
In one of the novels, I read (years ago), Tiberius (Mirror Kirk) not only ended up in the 24th century, but he somehow managed to end up on the bridge of the Enterprise - E from the prime universe. The prime Kirk was resurrected with 24th century medical "magic" and was with Picard when they both discover Tiberius on the Enterprise-E. (That was the cliff-hanger to the next book (If I remember correctly.)
@@superboats2 it was probably the same books
What about that newish comic that tales the story of the mirror Enterprise D?
HAIL TERRA!
I hear a lot of people talking about the Romans being the Terran Empire, but the Roman Empire is not culturally like the Terran Empire. They were heading towards a Christian belief (i.e. Byzantine Empire) that was not as militaristic. The Terran Empire is even more vicious than Rome was even in the Republic days. Rome also was more of an enlightened monarchy than an absolute dictatorship. The Terran Empire was likely formed by Khan or perhaps represents a Nazi Germany victory in World War II (with some adjustments). (Or perhaps it is a civilization that doesn't exist in our world at all as the world could have developed entirely different than our world). Many successor states of Rome did adopt Roman iconography to compare themselves with the greatness of Rome. The Terran Empire could have adopted these practices.
What was always strange to me was that the Technology between the Universe always seemed to be "On Par" despite several situations where the Terran Empire would get their hands on more advanced Technology well before they should've.
First Contact - 2063
Enterprise - 2150 to 2155
Federation - 2163
Constitution Class - 2245
Discovery - 2248 to 2256
Kirk commands Enterprise - 2265 to 2275 (Original) to 2282 to 2291 (Refit)
Now these are important dates., because it places where technology is in the Mirror Universe.
Keep in mind that somehow despite Vulcan Ships having Warp 5, Shields, Phasers, etc. (essentially tech on-par with 2150s United Earth)... we *still* see them only having Polarised Hull Plating in the Mirror Universe; and this is ignoring that by that point they'd conquered the Vulcans... which doesn't make sense with their 2150s Tech, but using Vulcans own tech against them, does.
Then in 2253., they discover the Defiant (a Prime Universe Constitution Class)., this is again almost a Century PRIOR to when said Tech would even appear in the Prime Universe.
Yet the advancements they make in the interim; lead to essentially the same Tech.
Evil or not., Humanity would still be highly inventive; especially during Wartime., and the Empire was almost always at War.
You'd expect the Tech to have progressed considerably faster.
•
Personally I like the idea of the Mirror Universe., it's just a shame it's never really been properly explored and written.
As for the idea of "Promotion" being through Killing Superiors... eh, well that's not quite true.
If you kill a Superior and either a) Don't get away with it., or b) Don't have the right support in-place; you're likely to end up on the chopping block yourself.
Instead look at the cut-throat approach as very similar to Communist or Socialist Parties... where-by your legitimacy for Position is to simply claim it and have the power to sway enough backing to support it. Sure, this will often be through Murder / Fatal "Accidents" happening to your superiors.
This happened often in the NSDP and Soviet Parties during their tenure; not to mention the various "Purges" that accompanied a new Regime.
It's also how Imperial Rome worked as well., originally via the Claudian House; but when they had no more Heirs, the Flavian House was able to rise to said position despite various Houses vying for said position.
As noted, if it was better written and explored; it could be exceptionally interesting., akin to say Battlestar Galactica Reimagined with it's various factions, coups, etc.
Next to the Federation; sure it all seems cruel and barbaric... and it's played up more as the "Evil" Universe, but I think a key turning point would've been no Eugenics War (World War 3).
That would've resulted in Humans having no desire to change or unify in the same way.
something I've been wondering about with the mirror universe is if the humans are agro & cruel then what of its vulcans, shouldn't they more like the romulans with the mirror romulans being more like the prime vulcans?
Zeal and fury! Long live the Empire!
Still waiting for a tear in Empire show but it would be awesome start after Star Trek the next generation and go forward
I'm sad that it fell!
3:14 They should have kept those uniforms for Hoshi and T'Pol.
I’ve watched several videos, from various creators, that talk about the history and culture of the Terran Empire. Conspicuously absent is any mention of the Romulans. Where did they figure into all of this?
SOME STORIES SAY THE FIRST CONTACT IN THE MIRROR WAS WITH THE ROMULANS, THEY CONQUER TERRA AND AFTER DEFEAT THEM THE HUMANS AND ALLIES CRWATE THE EMPIRE AS A FORM OF DEFENSE
Did Linda Park play Hoshi on Discovery?
Back to the Future with Disco Stu Trek.
Do you think the kelvin timeline has a terran universe? Like what if the neranda came to a terran universe?
I liked Spok with the beard.
Hmmm... I wonder what The Borg are like in the mirror universe.
Yeet !!
Also you would think that Spock would have realized that you would have to maintain your military for a while given how the empire treated it's neighbors.