I just had a similar idea: a Borg that's selective about who it assimilates "We are the Borg, lower your shields and let us aboard, we'd like to take interviews" "You don't want all of us?" "Oh god no, I mean just look at you."
they traverse the universe and deny everybody to join their high tech world of basically immortality. „We want to join the borg“ - „sorry, only for invited guests!“
I allways assumed the mirror universe borg would be a small collective travelling through the universe looking for someone to assimilate them, but everybody resists them successfully
If you get a chance, watch their introduction in the mission in Star Trek Online. Hearing "resistance will be annihilated" and the red lights left me shaken.
It is STO idea. And I personally do not like it. Especially as in Voyager we do see alternative Borg Cooperative. Trek Mirrorverse is closer to Injustice then Earth 3 (making DC reference)
I absolutely concur with your final assessment of the difference between the Mirror Borg inspiring the kind of fear an oncoming army does, while the Collective inspires the kind of dread an oncoming tornado does. The Mirror Borg are more personal, the Collective are closer to classic zombies. Nobody to talk to, nobody to negotiate with, they just walk slowly toward you with an arm outstretched and *do not stop*.
I would say that the mirror Borg are primitive, where the main universe's Borg are not. The main point to create the Borg collective (at first, at least), was to transcend the familiarity and humanity away. Create civilization that is very advanced but also philosophically drastically different than moral values of the Western world and the Enlightenment. So the mirror Borg is just like feodal society, but with space ships and not with bubonic plague. Not very intellectual or good concept, just saying.
@@thejohanvalli I *think* the Borg were originally supposed to represent the extreme “toxic” version of Communism, similarly to the way the Ferengi represent the same kind of extreme of Capitalism. I say I think that because while we are told explicitly both on screen and in interviews with the writers and producers that the Ferengi are “Yankee Capitalists” (which is a mischaracterization in some significant details) I haven’t seen any explicit statements about the Borg representing Communism. Nonetheless looking at them it’s hard for me to see anything else. I also think that I like your characterization of the Mirror Borg as feudal. The Collective doesn’t speak or evidently think in terms of domination and submission, just in terms of seeking perfection (by its definition of perfect) and of *sharing* that perfection. Unwillingness to to participate is seen as proof of selfish imperfection. Like the most idealistic of Communists, the Collective considers what it does to the species it encounters as unselfishly generous if not outright charitable. Forcibly so, but achieving and spreading perfection is their entire cultural philosophy. The Mirror Borg somehow lost the selfish/unselfish component of “our” Borg’s philosophy resulting in drones retaining far more individuality, which brings along power dynamics not present in the Collective, but definitely present in real-world incarnations of Communism that always include what Marxists label as cronyism or oligarchism. In that way I see the Mirror Borg as being closer to real world Communism than “our” Borg in some ways, farther in others.
@@gmradio2436 Eh, kinda? Apart from the cutting beams, the Collective primarily uses plasma disruptors similar to those used by the Romulans. I would think that the infinitely more configurable phaser would be the more logical choice for the collective if that was the sole factor in weapon choice for the Borg.
@@VestedUTuber with regenetive shiled and armor they worry ables about getting in closeand plasma is more powerful close in than phasers, This is seen in in the first TOS romulan episode whne entrprize was close to the romulan ship they were pummpled but when tehy moved out to extreme range the enterprize weapons could still do much of the same damage, But plasma weapon would spread out. This idea is seen in lasers vs flash or spot lights. Plasma is the what stars are amde of. Close up they don't have far to expand n far away much mopre expansion.
They could have gotten it in other places too. Unlike the Collective, they don't seem to reject using something that's not highly energy efficient. Instead, they focus on what works. And there's very little that can resist antiproton weaponry, so the Kingdom would likely favor it regardless of the extreme energy use. After all, their energy is near-limitless anyway.
“We are the Borg. Raise your shields and protect your ships. We will add our biological and technological distinctiveness to your own. Our culture will adapt to service you. Resistance… is perfectly acceptable.”
That honestly sounds like a weird anime thing. "Resist as much as you want. We're gonna serve you and breed with you!". Like a clingy person with a crush that wants your babies, and is just *not* taking the hint that you're uninterested. Kinda like a Hive Mind that went Yandere for civilizations.
I don't think that he's the king when you consider Mirror Janeway's borg links...I think there is some sort of alliance or something between Mirror Janeway and the king, and Janeway's crew is off limits, normal universe Harry being ignored because he's the physical duplicate of the terran version means that he's ignored until he starts doing things to them which might have interesting side effects in the mirror universe because of it.
@@AzraelThanatosJaneway's drones were identical to Prime Borg, rather than having the tactical armor and color coding of the Kingdom. She could be a sort of artificial Borg like Hakeev was making, but the final dialog in the mission gives, I think, a better hint: the Borg Kingdom is multiversal. They entered the Prime Universe from the Mirror Universe, but if the Ethereans are telling the truth (note STO has done the "new ally is hiding a dark secret and maybe we're on the wrong side" twist like eight times) they may not originate there and the Mirror Universe has its own Green Borg (or had, the Terrans may have used their future tech or god powers to wipe them out).
Kind of interesting that in the Voyager Episode “Living Witness” the heavily skewed historical narrative had Janeway using nanoprobes to create her own drone security force, not entirely unlike Mirror Janeway.
"Living witness" was the closest they could come to a mirror universe voyager. Given that DS9 canon had established the empire as being destroyed. STO simply makes them have a resurgence after Siskos interference, shifting Janeways adventures a few decades back.
It's interesting that the Mirror Borg are a completely different sort of hive mind than the collective. It's heterogenous in composition, a stratified collective of many whereas the main Borg are a distributed collective that form a single mind. To reference other Sci-fi, I'd compare the prime Borg to something like the tyranids from 40k-thinking, feeling, but uncaring and compelled by a single mind of increase power. The mirror brog would be actually closer to the Necrons in 40k, with a neo feudal hierarchy enforced through programmed compulsion, with all being subject to the will of those above them and the higher up you go, the more individuality persists, with the lowest levels being little more than mindless automatons and the top of the hierarchy having vastly superhuman cognition.
@@TheRezro I like it. THe Kingdom I hope works with the King being the overiding supreme authority, but allows lower ranks some degree of individuality, this means the Kingdom prioritizes tactical gain and being more aggressive makes them harder to fight, some degree of individuality for lower ranks also allows quicker tactical responses, and if they are still interconnected through some kind of hive mind it likely means higher ranks recieve tactical data from lowers and can act on said data more accordingly, also it's clear the Kingdom is more advanced per individual droen then th Collective. Essentially the COllective is quantity of quality, and the Kingdome quality over quantity, but still numerous enough to be a threat.
@@TheZamaron it's cool both ways but original was scarier, more an unstoppable cosmic force of nature, compared to sto just being another conquering force the original borg were entropy
There probably is apocrypha that I'm unaware of covering this but I like to think that The Dominion's mirror counterpart would be The Communion, an almost federation-like version of the Dominion. Sure it's pretty opposite, but I like to think there could be nuances with their Great Link type of hivemind taking a more gentle and generous approach to the solids while still favouring Order.
Yeah it's only a minor thing to invert the prime directive, use your shape-shifting infiltrators not to destroy and spread fear but to uplift societies, give them technological advantages to become part of the communion.
It is not how Mirror Universe work. It was result of Federation becoming its mirror reflection, not the wole universe. And in fact from DS9 we know that Terran Empire doesn't exist anymore. For example mirror Klingons basically become canon Klingons from TNG forward. It is bit clear that during 90's creators though of Mirrorverse as dead, because they attempted to write everything more nuanced. Though if we could speculate: Terran Empire killing Borg Queen, could potentially lead to 7of9 taking control of Borg Cooperative. Romulans seeing cruelty of Humans and destruction of Vulcan, could possibly have spiritualistic revolution and basically become like Federation. Dominion in my opinion could become more isolationist. I actually like Communion idea. My guess that Odo bring them information about cruelty of Terran Empire. Especially its fall could show parallels to some Dominion activity. Making them rethink they approach.
@@TheRezroI think the idea isn’t that the universe is the same except for the federation, but that the influences of the main universe had a ripple effect resulting in some convergent facts. The mirror Spock seeing that there’s a better way makes changes, weakens the Terran empire as a result attempting to shift it into something like the federation, and thus the relatively peaceful Klingons and cardassians take advantage of and become. Far more militarist. It’s not a complete mirror, but it also isn’t completely the same
One of the novels (Section 31: Disavowed) discussed The Dominion of the Mirror Universe. They wanted to extradite Prime Bashir, because he killed Odo in canon. They were very hesitant to submit to the extradition, but the trial ended up happening. Surprisingly, they were very reasonable, and when presented with the evidence, testimony, and security feed from Terok Nor, found Bashir not guilty, due to self-defense. The Changelings of the Mirror Universe had a deep sense of justice (Who would worship an unjust God? Unjust Gods would only be feared.) This led to the speculation: maybe the young Odos were switched when they went through the wormhole.
It sounds like they have a better command structure and behaviour structure than prime universe Borg. You could trick Prime Borg into doing something because, unless they encountered it once before and adapted for it, they are unprepared for whatever it is. Working as one will, that means just ONE mind needs to be tricked. The Queen. I imagine it's a lot harder to trick Kingdom Borg, due to their actually having individual or semi-individual command units that are there because they adapt well to unusual situations and might actually display some level of imagination and ingenuity, which makes them INFINITELY more dangerous than a just a drone ship. And since they don't debate Net loss, they take greater risks, but might end up with surprisingly greater gains. I'd find it amusing if the Borg Queen, who can hear echoes of all the other Queens across the multiverse, hits hard resistance when she hears the echoes of the Borg KING and his subcommanders. They wouldn't be part of the Collective, but might be able to tune into their network, if only to send highly complicated code viruses to cause trouble, or maybe a scathing personal message from King to Queen. Because if the Kingdom could destabilize the Collective, then it'd be easier if they ever crossed that multiverse divide; no competition or a weaker one.
The first Borg shown at Encounter at Farpoint implied that there was no leadership, just a communal hive mind. Yes, later episodes involved a Queen presumably of a species particularly suited to mental calculations and multi-tasking but having the collective really be just one individual queen that you're dealing with would only mean a delay in capturing the Queen's attention but once her attention was caught, the reaction times should be much quicker which we do not see in cannon where the responses are absurdly slow and adaptations are even forgotten episode to episode. I would say the slow response times of the prime Universe Borg is more about putting concerns and decisions to a broad enough quorum for a consensis with each quorum having to relearn some of the adaptations as they had not yet encountered the issues yet.. If anything, the issues are with multiple minds and of course we all know how decisions by committees are and the effect of the lowest common denominator.
The Borg being so powerful in the Mirror Universe could be used to explain the end of all contact between the Prime and Mirror universe explained in Discovery Season 3. By the 32nd century, no new contacts had been noted for 500 years.
I vaguely remembering the dimensions drifted too far apart or something. So the two universe can no longer connect and the people in the wrong universe also gets rejected by the universe they are in.
Yeah. Who knows? The game designers could make the Terran Empire a faction where you get to play as your mirror counterpart and his rise towards becoming an Inquisitor.
I have enjoyed the Borg since they were first introduced officially to us in the TNG episode "Q-Who". By far they are the best overall enemy in Star Trek, in my opinion. Thanks for another fantastic video!
I think that the main point of the Borg is to be very unnatural. They want to assimilate everything, which for them is same as to "save" other more primitive (natural order) species and civilzations. Any civilization is always outside of the scope of nature, in metaphysics. We humans can create causalities which could not happen without this autonomous role we poses. Same applying to the Borg collective, but much greater degree.
@@F0r3v3rT0m0rr0wNot at all, but I get where you're coming from. Think of it like a tornado. It kills hundreds of people, but is it evil? The Borg as an entity may be evil, but the Borg as individuals aren't evil. A Borg cube isn't evil. It simply exists. The dumb queen is evil, the Borg arent
in dungeons and dragons terms they are lawful neutral at latest pre queen. They're not good because Why they think they're making everything better there not doing it for others but for the cokkective. there not evil despite harming everyone they believe they are bringing order to chaod.. saving everyone. the Queen does appear to be evil.
@@F0r3v3rT0m0rr0w In your viewpoint that is how you view the actions of the Borg, but to the Borg they see it as offering these species a 'Better Life' and a chance to become more than they are.
yeah, it doesn't even go with established mirror universe lore. from what we've seen, the mirror universe is mostly just more evil in general, i don't remember seeing any actual flips beyond the original terran empire
@@SpooglecraftAny member of the Terran Rebellion says hello, and politely disagrees. Ferengi in general have been a lot less self-serving in the mirror universe, so that's a flip for example, and firmly rooted in canon too.
One thing from the final dialog a lot of people have missed is that while the Borg Kingdom entered the Prime Universe from the Mirror Universe, and were active there at the end of the V'ger incident, they may not originate there. The Etherean states they are multiversal and these are just the most recent fronts in their war.
One thing has always bothered me about fighting the Borg. You are always having to remodulate your weapons and shields. Why the hell are they not using old school BALISTIC WEAPONS!! Fire up a damn Gauss cannon or kinetic kill vehicle. Picard showed how effective a Tommy Gun on a Holodeck was and yet they still use phasers and ONLY phasers.
As a big fan of the Tommy Gun, since the time I saw my first gangster movie, I was practically bouncing up and down in my theater seat during that scene 😂 omfg *that* was an epic moment to me, and in all my years of pencil and paper RPGs on Star Trek, that's exactly how I deal with the Borg. Replicate a Tommy Gun for everyone 😂 BOOM! Babies!
@@SeaSkorpion ironically enough they had an event in Star Trek online where you could get the Tommy gun and because it does kinetic damage instead of energy, it is legitimately one of the best options for fighting the Borg 😂
We never actually see the borg come underfire from projectile weapons, and never gor sustained fire. The might just adapt and throw a navigational shield up. The Tommy gun scene while fun, doesn't actually prove anything. The bullet is a shaped force field, not an actual bullet and the sample size is small. Killing a Borg or two just means they have to collect data and adapt. A basic phaser can kill a few Borg before they adapt. No the real test would be under continuous combat, not a 12 second burst. Then if they don't adapt, a statement about how effective projectiles are can be made. Until then we have an energy weapon used in a limited duration. So basic Starfleet encounter.
the main advantage that the mirror borg have is that they are capable of deception, subterfuge, but also innovation they also are by their nature unpredictable. like the borg queen is created primarily to do these things when met with a threat that can not be overcome by throwing drones at the problem until it goes away, like the federation or species 8472. the issue with that is that this is just one queen doing all the heavy lifting and since each queen is basically just a clone of the last one, if you've met one of them, you've met them all, once you've figured out how to destroy one borg cube, you can destroy them all (until the collective adapts, but that takes precious time.) the mirror borg, every borg cube at least is different, they'll use different strategies, make different modifications to their hardware, tell different lies and so on, you manage to kill one kingdom cube? well the one right next to it is it's own animal with completely different weaknesses so have fun figuring that one out.
I like to think of the Mirror Borg like an altruistic Triple A. They just cruise around the galaxy looking for ships in need of help and they change flat tires and repair cracked windshields.
@@rayvenkman2087That's the Borg Colonial Expansion, ie Us. We assimilate only the willing unless we have no other choice. We have superior technology to all.
Not sure it they're cannon, but I remember reading a Mirror universe novel where the Borg ships there were still cubes, but they were oriented on the diagonal, like a diamond. And they also had a "king" instead of a Queen. Luc Picard there infected the King's ship with an Iconian virus and destroyed it.
Man, I bet rotating all the Kingdom's ships 45° was problematic in STOnline, but that would have been a really subtle & funny touch & I think it's a shame they're not shown that way in-game!
I remember a book like that but it wasn't the mirrorverse it was an alternate history, I cant remember the whole details but it was part of a series of what ifs, I remember the Cube being destroyed by the Inconian Virus and the Borg King thinking to itself, maybe next time ill be a Queen instead. Don't know if its the same book though.
@@David-cb1ct That's the one. You see the Klingon occupation of Earth, the Picard vineyards ruined, and some Klingons guzzling the last bottle of Chateau Picard in existence.
Pretty much, yes. A program with just one objective and nothing to restrict the achievement of this objective. So they lack morals or any kind of ethic other than assimilate to achieve perfection, so we see this as clearly evil, when they´re just as evil as an earthquake or a flesh eating bacteria.
@@SchneeflockeMonsoon But are they? Outside of the Queen at times getting petty, drones don't get revenge. The Borg infect a person and then rewrite a good deal of that person. They spread like a virus with a purpose. With each species is changed, is one cell in a culture that is infected. When too many cells are infected a culture will fall to assimilation. It's not really evil, it's just the purpose of the Borg. They operate along their instruction, "acquire knowledge and add it to the collective." Or would we see it as evil because of they strip away a person's identity and ability to choose?
I would love to see a conflict with a hyper good universe with little conflict. To them the Federation hopping around the universe and rapid incorporation of nearby star systems might seem itself as hostile.
The main universe coming into conflict with a universe where the concept of war is unimaginable is a good one. Flips the typical mirror universe plot on it's head. Allows for a VERY good moment when the prime universe crew realize *they* are the bad guys here.
Interesting to note, as well: the Borg saying “resistance is futile” is an homage to Dr Who’s Daleks saying “resistance is useless,” and the mirror Borg saying “resistance will be annihilated,” continues this by homaging the Daleks saying “you will be annihilated.”
The introduction of the Queen completely ruined the Borg as antagonists. Before her, what was truly terrifying about the Borg was that they had no leader, they were a hive mind. Everything they did, all of their decisions represented the collective will of every one of their members. Members who, as individuals, were probably not much different from you or me, but when collectivized, became downright psychotic. What made the Borg scary was that they truly did hold up a mirror to humanity and represent what we ourselves were capable of becoming if we let mob mentality run amok. But then the Queen was introduced, and the Borg were demoted to the status of just another interstellar dictatorship whose people just fell in line with the will of their tyrannical leader, no different from the Klingons or the Romulans. It is a classic example of the "villain decay" trope.
Where did this "The Queen rules Collective" come from? I remember the Queens being the equivalent to regional managers, governing a location and the Borg there, but being beholden to the Collective as a whole. We even see a Queen argue with the Collective in Endgame.
M.A.D. probably... The Collective would see the Kingdom as a threat they couldn't risk provoking due to the similarities, and the Kingdom probably viewed the Collective in a similar way. If either interacted with the other they'd risk having their authority overwritten by their opposing dimension's counterpart, which, when dealing with a hive-mind, is an EXTEREMELY high risk; the Collective could be lost in it's entirety in an instant, or the Kingdom could be assimilated piece-by-piece (with each "piece" being huge swaths of their networked minds). With neither willing to make the first move, they'd be in a cautious interdimensional stalemate and/or cold-war style arms race.
One would be if they didn't have any technology borg would want from each other it wouldn't worth to fight over similar technology with a similar force.
There could be physical dangers to attempting something like that. We don't actually know what would happen if a _substantial_ amount of matter were transported interdimensionally. We've only ever seen a few hundred kilograms (in the form of an away team or similar) being transported interdimensionally.
STO is obviously very unrealistic as the Oberth Class ship shown would have blown up at first sight of a Borg Sphere. Literally if a Borg farted on a Sphere or Cube the sound wave would destroy a Oberth.
@@gmradio2436 Oberth was probably the Spaceship equivalent to the Kazon for the Borg. "No no if we assimilate that it will cause problems, it'd be a waste of energy to destroy it, and it looks like its going to fall apart any moment anyway. So Moving on."
*We are the Borg! We refuse to assimilate you! Your technology is vastly inferior, even to your own comrades. Self destruct your ship and save everyone else the trouble.*
Everything in reverse is just so much more fun though! I always imagined the mirror Borg kinda like this: We are the Borg! Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add our biological and cultural distinctiveness to your own. Our culture will adapt to service you. Resistance is rude.
I'd argue that The Borg are no more evil than a predator roaming a forest. They're more like a force of nature than something one could easily apply traditional morality to, IMO.
Humans frequently think of predators as evil. Just look at their comments on nature channels, especially if it's a ugly animal like a crocodile. Many people have gone full Disney in their assessment of nature.
I had thought of alternate versions of the Borg as a kid with TNG's episode "Parallels"(I think), the one where the realities all get mixed together and we see a wounded Ryker. I would've loved to have explored a universe where the Borg happen to be the only choice for survival and ultimately the good guys in a universe where a universal threat pushes everyone to collectively join the Borg.
The Borg were a lot scarier when they were a true hive mind rather than a bunch of drones subjugated to a single individual, king or queen. I can understand why they changed them, it's much harder to write stories for a vast collective consciousness than one person with what amounts to a bunch of extra hands, but they were much more interesting.
@@davidgipe997 It's hard to argue with the outcome though, as First Contact was a _fantastic_ movie and the Borg Queen was a compelling, badass villain. Come on, time travel PLUS the Borg?? So many great scenes in it, including the ever present threat of the crew being assimilated, Picard losing it and going off the rails, Worf's statement about killing him where he stood, the Borg Queen's seduction of Data (which made it _so_ personal for Picard, and thus, the viewer), the Zephram Cochrane subplot, Data's line about how long he considered the Queen's offer to join her (pure perfection), and even the scene where the Holo-Doctor (hats off to the brilliant Robert Picardo) hilariously offers a Borg drone some "analgesic cream" for his "severe skin irritations", which was perfect in the way it broke the ever climbing Borg induced tension. Jonathan Frakes did a _fantastic_ job of directing it and I've watched it more times than all the other TNG movies put together. It was definitely on par with _Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home._ 10/10
absolutly.. the orginal TNG Borg where terrifing - nobody to speak with .. how they disect the enterprice and just don't care about the humans was so.. well alien to the other species in the trek univers
Soooo the main question no one seems to be asking (at least as far as I’ve barely read in comments) what about mirror universe Q ? Did they introduce the borg to the alpha quad? Do they exist? If so how are they compared to “prime Q.”?
Since Q exists as a multi dimensional being, my theory would be that he is aware of both universes and in a way exists in both simultaneously as one person
@@The_Keeper Maybe rather than "Prime" versus "Mirror" Q, it's more like "Model Citizen" versus "Hard Criminal" Q. So the latter are locked up in "Q Prison".
I can't recall for sure, but I thought one of the novels explored Q in the mirror universe and it is indeed the same Q. I could be wrong, but I swear I read it in a novel. I've read *a lot* of the novels over the decades of Star Trek 😂 So no idea which novel, mind you, but I think it's out there.
Mirror Universe Borg: Anarchist collective of voluntary individuals. Famous for their phrase: "Feel free to cooperate with us, or don't, that's cool too."
I like to think of mirror Borg, as a collective of free individuals, that go about encouraging other groups not to join them, but to break free of other dominant groups, such as the Terran Empire. They do use technology to augment themselves, but it a last resort to repair injuries from clashes with the Terrans.
I was so disappointed when the Borg were given a hierarchical command structure and a leader. It weakened them as a story foe and made them far less horrific. Militarily it made them subject to a decapitation strike. Just a bad idea all around. They could have even explored that with Locutus. He became a target and by rescuing him they foiled the entire plot.
Right? Their true horror wasn't the body-horror, it was that the Borg was essentially an unfathomable faceless monster! They could not be reasoned with or even understood in anyway that mattered by us. An unreasonable alien foe in every sense. Adding any personality with an individualised angle/edge/nature ruins the entire 'monster'.
Going from 3km on each side of the Cube to 10km on each side isn’t just over triple the size, as stated in the video. It’s 37 times larger. Tripling it on one axis would be triple the size. Tripling it on all three axes is a *hell* of a lot larger! :-)
I always thought it would be a beautiful twist if in the Mirror Universe the Borg are basically the Federation ideologically but with more advanced cybernetic technology: like the Federation, they would aim to bring as many as possible diverse peoples and technologies together and integrate them into a unified whole that is stronger than any of them were separately, which the prime Borg already do, just in a forced, involuntary way, while these mirror Borg would be voluntary like the prime Federation. But then differentiating them from the Federation, are resembling the prime Borg, they would have cybernetic networking between them all, not as a hive mind, but as a shared pool of knowledge and power that they can each access, making every individual just a unique name, face, and voice of that shared pool. Likewise their bodies would be technologically augmented, I'm imagining something like Ghost in the Shell where every mind can hop around into whatever different synthetic body it wants, though perhaps not entirely mechanical robotic bodies but "cellular-level cyborgs", organic cells in symbiosis with nanoprobes forming biomechanical tissues.
No no. Obviously the mirror borg say.. "hi, would you like to be assimilated into our friendship? Oh gosh we are being so forward, no pressure! Your bulkheads are so pretty "
a fascinating idea, maybe the mirror borg would simply be a benevolent technological archive that accepts any and all knowledge and freely distributes said knowledge to anyone interested.
I so wish they made a ST Borg game where you played as the Borg in attempts to conquer planets by assimilating everyone . Go on away missions, be the Queen and command units. That would be just the best.
@@sleepingbackbone7581 I could see a cool mix of a resource management, 4x game, and a tactical squad shooter type game depending upon specifics. Drop in as some drones while being able to give orders to the AI forces to do things while you manage the composition of what you have while having an adaptation thing that slowly adjusts in different ways. Then bounce out to different levels across the galaxy to manage resources in different hot spots that you would need to deal with and other things as you go.
At some point there was such a game in development around 2k or so, with screenshots in mags and everything. I think the title was Star Trek: Assimilation (correction: Star Trek: Borg Assimilator - there is a short article on Memory Alpha). Since that never saw the light of day, it must have turned out to be unplayable.
Mirror Borg : Hey, you guys wanna join our super awesome collective of really cool people? Humans: No thanks. Mirror Borg: That's cool. Have an awesome day! Peace and love y'all!
We are the Borg. You can be assimilated if you want. Resistance is understandable. But there's, like, technological and biological distinctiveness, man.
In both universes the Borg would be the sum of those they assimilated. If the Mirror Borg were more draconian in their operations it's because they assimilated more draconian species.
I was under the impression that the mirror universe had its changes limited to the alpha quadrant and the knock on effects from that. The change to the Borg and Iaconians don't match up with that.
I wouldn't say the borg are actually evil in the prime universe, they seek perfection and wish to unify all species, it's like a self learning AI built with the full intention of helping bring peace to everyone, and everything while trying to perfect itself to achieve that goal while also misinterpreting its creators desires
I've never been a fan of the mirror universe. I get the point of the conceit, but I found the Dominon to be a more interesting way to explore an inversion of the Federations ideals.
It's because the Dominion is real and in "our world" and it leaves lasting effects. The Dominion, much like The Joker always attempts but fails with batman, forces the Federation to break their rules and what the Federation realizes, is once some things are broken, they can never be put back together again. The Federation can never go back to being the explorers of the TOS or even the slightly militarized explorers of the TNG era, because of the Dominion Starfleet will forevermore be, first and foremost, a military force. The description of the Defiant in DS9 as being "The first WARSHIP ever produced by starfleet" isn't a throwaway line. It means Starfleet has crossed the proverbial Rubicon and they cannot go back. Yes it was originally designed by Sisko et al. to fight the Borg, but it was first USED against the Dominion.
I'd never considered a mirror universe Borg... But since the prime Borg were a dark reflection of the Federation, I think a "good" Borg collective would be more interesting. "You will be assimilated for your own good".
As we head into the more spooky time of year, I find the addition of militaristic mirror borg to be appropriate for the coming seasonal setting. When you think back to the good old days of TNG and how the borg were this near unstoppable force that turned all we are against the ones we love by forceful assimilation, it literally was a horror story in Star Trek fashion. Although many may not see it the same now having been jaded by a constantly rising bar of shock value & the over exposure of borg that came with Voyager. (P.S. still love the Voyager series even for it's flaws)
Dominion, you say? I wonder what they get up to in the Mirror Universe. Were the Changelings protective OF their junior races instead of using junior races to protect themselves?
according to the logic.. in the mirror universe, the dominion should be like the federation in our universe. still with vortas and jem hadar a ss geneticaly modified species for administration and warfare - but the dominion would be democratic organiced and the species can join peasfully and all work together towards peace and liberty - the founders would be a religious order, that teach the species and help them with their knowlede, but they refuse to use force or power..
Finally something to bring back the fear that the Borg used to have. Back when just the suggestion of the Borg being involved somewhere remotely close put you as a Trek watcher on edge. They need their boogyman back.
So you telling me I can just board a borg cube with a broom, a mop, and a bucket, say HEYO! to the borg, start sweeping and mopping and they won't give a shit; OKAY 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I've never been a huge fan of the Borg Queen conceptually personally, but this brutal Borg King version with the semi-autonomous Borg cubes does sound appropriate for the Mirror Universe lol. Thank you for another interesting video. God be with you out there everybody. ✝️ :)
It would have to certainly be likely that both Borg.. races? factions? they would have to have met each other at one point. And if that were true, I thnk it opens up the possibility of them both actually being the same Borg, just one. A King and Queen, each with the universe they're in, and adapting their collectives to suit the situations, in constant communication with each other. Maybe. Just head canon speculation, of course.
I thought in Picard season 2, they were brought into the mirror universe, and the borg was rather different there. Maybe that was, yet another universe, or alternative timeline?
That was the confederation timeline ironically the confederation was closer to the federation that the mirror universe empire as the confederation, from my understanding were just the federation if they were basically human first.
Alternate timeline. And even though I consider Discovery and Picard non-canon (like many fans), season 2's timeline is set within an alternate timeline where the Federation never comes to existence and is instead replace with a oppressive regime called the Confederation. I felt the plot of season 2 would've been a whole lot better if Q had altered the Mirror Universe timeline where the Terran Empire never fell to the Alliance and continues they're oppressive regime over the mirror universe, kinda like those novels where in the mirror next gen, set in an alternate mirror universe (irony), where the Terran Empire never fell and Picard leads a crew of gangsters and madmen in his pursuits of conquest.
If logical thought was used, the Mirror Universe Borg would be exactly the same. The universe changed for some due to a single starting event (and aided by a later event documented in Enterprise) none of which would have impacted the Borg.
In terms of STO, it makes you wonder what would happen if the Kingdom assimilated a Collective Queen or vice versa. I'm also wondering about the 'Liberated Borg', their foundations were laid a good few years ago with whole cubes being comprised of them that utilised blue lights. If I remember rightly, there was a mission chain where they would come in to act as an ally. There was rumours that Cryptic were going to let players have a liberated Borg as a playable character although I'm not sure if it ever came to pass. Either way its good to see the Borg as a whole get more love, and now effectively have 3 individual factions. Much like how you can choose between a Romulan or a Reeman, and a Klingon or a Nausican.
Maybe the real difference is how collectivist and individualist each dimension is. Federation likes freedom for all. Terran empire is an individualistic empire.
@@The_Keeper Forest fires aren't sentient though. The Borg are ruled by Queens who have their full cognitive faculties and know the difference between good and evil, right and wrong. Subjugating entire worlds for their own benefit, to the detriment of said worlds and their numerous, unique populations and cultures, _just because they can,_ is _textbook evil._
Yeah, they would probably be considered somewhere between “chaotic neutral” and “true neutral”. The reasons being that they are like a controlled chaos that only seeks out what benefits themselves/itself. They don’t care who’s “good” or “bad”. They only seek out to achieve their own agenda of “perfection” via assimilation.
@@The_Keeper Where did the Queens rulings the Collective come from? I ask because I can point to Endgame to show the Queens are subservient to the Collective as a whole. That and at least 3 have died on screen.
The Borg of the Mirror Universe should be travelling the galaxy freeing enslaved planets and communities and giving them technology to start a new life.
Love the video. Have you been able to determine what ground and space weapons the Mirror Borg are using. Their beams and ground weapons are RED, are they using antiprotons instead of plasma?🤔
If they are using antiproton weapons it could mean that they have assimilated the voth or even the solanae dyson sphere entirely. i may be wrong but i believe the voth are the only living race in sto that uses ap weapons, there is the iconians too but im thinking the twist in the story is that the other massive ship in this mission are the mirror universe iconians, with a different name
I liked the idea that "borg" is a label and not a group kind of how Cyberman is a label for cyborg in Who-verse and Cylon was a label for artificial life in the Battlestar universe. Borg could even be a fermi-barrier in which races reach a point that they start augmenting themselves and integrating into a collective vs staying individual.
@coralcopperhead685 either that or the Queen would write a last-second sleeper program eventually resulting in something akin to the Lore/Early-Seasons Goa'uld... Realistic to either? Maybe not. Does it matter? Not since a _Queen of The COLLECTIVE_ became a _thing_
I always thought the mirror universe borg would be like a sort of safeguard of the best of each species. Not forcing every species to submit to it but rather a slow burn sort of acquisition through subtlety and its best and most positive attributes. I also thought that there would be a more Merciful aspect of the assimilation you would keep your "self" But more like be constantly online than anything mindless
Borg = evil: Not quite. Now, sure, the Borg's intent is purely to become more perfect. However: Not taking the fail that is ST-Voy as cannon, as it is not, the Borg established true Utopia. Each rule that makes a Utopia, can be checked off, for the Borg Collective. Also: Though they do not intent this effect, they FACTUALLY bring Universal Peace and Prosperity through assimilation: Even the worst of enemies work side by side, once assimilated, for the "greater good", the continuity of the Borg.
So it seems this version is slightly more prone to the "Bull bait" tactic of getting someone to attack you or act aggressively to lead them into a trap, but I'm sure that tactic only works vaguely since Kingdom Borg still learn from events. Seeing this version makes me wonder of other versions, and I can't help but imagine with my silly brain, a version in a weirder universe dedicated to partying. "We are the borg, lower your shields, if you want, and we'll assimilate you into a NEVERENDING PARTY!"
Someone tried to make an argument for a mirror undine/8472. I tried to remind them that fluidic space was already an alternative universe. They would not hear it.
The Borg should be the same in both universes. The timeline split happens when a dark humanity encounters Vulcans. The Halkans are the same. Spock is basically the same; Vulcans had to adapt after being subjugated by humans. The rest of the Universe isn't mirrored; just the effects of humanity in space.
I love the concept of an assimilated Soong! It gives mirror Data an arc to fight the kingdom to retrieve the imprint of his father and meet his brother Lore, created by the Kingdom to be the perfect nonorganic drone, they can have centuries long battles for the fate of the galaxy, either way ruled by AI...
The idea of mirror universe Borg being really nice and helping people, whether they wanted it or not, is very amusing. "You will lower your shields and allow our engineers on board to fix your warp nacelles! Resistance is futile!"
A cube that measures 10 km on a side is 37 times larger than a cube that measures 3 km on a side. I suppose "over triple the size" is technically accurate.
Star Trek writers: "We have humans, we have elves (Vulcans), we have dark elves (Romulans), and we have Orcs (Klingons). Now we need an undead enemy of some kind, but this is a sci-fi universe, so magical zombies just won't do. Hmm... I KNOW!".
I think it would be more interesting if in the mirror universe, the Borg Kingdom's ships were primarily a shape other than a cube. Perhaps they are diamond shaped, like two pyramids put together. Or perhaps some other basic shape, like a cylinder.
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I just had a similar idea: a Borg that's selective about who it assimilates
"We are the Borg, lower your shields and let us aboard, we'd like to take interviews"
"You don't want all of us?"
"Oh god no, I mean just look at you."
So the Jurati Borg? Lol
they traverse the universe and deny everybody to join their high tech world of basically immortality. „We want to join the borg“ - „sorry, only for invited guests!“
We are Borg. Don't call us, we'll call you.
@@MDuarte-vp7bm What are they, the Tok'Ra? 🤣🤣
@reliant1701 I like how the Tok'ra were never a reverse Goa'uld, and were basically just as arrogant!
I allways assumed the mirror universe borg would be a small collective travelling through the universe looking for someone to assimilate them, but everybody resists them successfully
We are the BROG. Please assimilate us. Resistance is discouraged.
We are the Borg. Prepare to assimilate us.
No they travel the universe but reject anyone who tries to join them.
My new headcanon is that's somehow the origin of the Pakleds.
@@abyssimus🤣🤣
"We are smart. You will join us."
"Ahhhhh.... No."
In all my years as a Star Trek fan (late 80's), Borg of the mirror universe had never once occurred to me until seeing this video.
Same here and jeebus are they terrifying
If you get a chance, watch their introduction in the mission in Star Trek Online. Hearing "resistance will be annihilated" and the red lights left me shaken.
It is STO idea. And I personally do not like it. Especially as in Voyager we do see alternative Borg Cooperative.
Trek Mirrorverse is closer to Injustice then Earth 3 (making DC reference)
Mirror Dominion is prime Federation.
ALL Borg timelines are explained as identical in Picard....this is canon now and CANNOT be ignored.
I absolutely concur with your final assessment of the difference between the Mirror Borg inspiring the kind of fear an oncoming army does, while the Collective inspires the kind of dread an oncoming tornado does.
The Mirror Borg are more personal, the Collective are closer to classic zombies. Nobody to talk to, nobody to negotiate with, they just walk slowly toward you with an arm outstretched and *do not stop*.
I would say that the mirror Borg are primitive, where the main universe's Borg are not. The main point to create the Borg collective (at first, at least), was to transcend the familiarity and humanity away. Create civilization that is very advanced but also philosophically drastically different than moral values of the Western world and the Enlightenment.
So the mirror Borg is just like feodal society, but with space ships and not with bubonic plague. Not very intellectual or good concept, just saying.
@@thejohanvalli I *think* the Borg were originally supposed to represent the extreme “toxic” version of Communism, similarly to the way the Ferengi represent the same kind of extreme of Capitalism. I say I think that because while we are told explicitly both on screen and in interviews with the writers and producers that the Ferengi are “Yankee Capitalists” (which is a mischaracterization in some significant details) I haven’t seen any explicit statements about the Borg representing Communism. Nonetheless looking at them it’s hard for me to see anything else.
I also think that I like your characterization of the Mirror Borg as feudal. The Collective doesn’t speak or evidently think in terms of domination and submission, just in terms of seeking perfection (by its definition of perfect) and of *sharing* that perfection. Unwillingness to to participate is seen as proof of selfish imperfection. Like the most idealistic of Communists, the Collective considers what it does to the species it encounters as unselfishly generous if not outright charitable. Forcibly so, but achieving and spreading perfection is their entire cultural philosophy. The Mirror Borg somehow lost the selfish/unselfish component of “our” Borg’s philosophy resulting in drones retaining far more individuality, which brings along power dynamics not present in the Collective, but definitely present in real-world incarnations of Communism that always include what Marxists label as cronyism or oligarchism. In that way I see the Mirror Borg as being closer to real world Communism than “our” Borg in some ways, farther in others.
Wait... _red_ beams with an eerie black aura? ...those are antiproton beams, which means the Borg assimilated _Iconian tech_ in that timeline.
It could also be voth can't rule them out
Antiproton makes since for Borg at constant war. The Collective tends to focus more on wounding their target to assimilate what remains.
@@gmradio2436
Eh, kinda? Apart from the cutting beams, the Collective primarily uses plasma disruptors similar to those used by the Romulans. I would think that the infinitely more configurable phaser would be the more logical choice for the collective if that was the sole factor in weapon choice for the Borg.
@@VestedUTuber with regenetive shiled and armor they worry ables about getting in closeand plasma is more powerful close in than phasers, This is seen in in the first TOS romulan episode whne entrprize was close to the romulan ship they were pummpled but when tehy moved out to extreme range the enterprize weapons could still do much of the same damage, But plasma weapon would spread out. This idea is seen in lasers vs flash or spot lights. Plasma is the what stars are amde of. Close up they don't have far to expand n far away much mopre expansion.
They could have gotten it in other places too. Unlike the Collective, they don't seem to reject using something that's not highly energy efficient. Instead, they focus on what works. And there's very little that can resist antiproton weaponry, so the Kingdom would likely favor it regardless of the extreme energy use. After all, their energy is near-limitless anyway.
“We are the Borg. Raise your shields and protect your ships. We will add our biological and technological distinctiveness to your own. Our culture will adapt to service you. Resistance… is perfectly acceptable.”
😂
Still prefer the answer Chaos gave them in the open door, as many problems as that fic otherwise had.
Don't be lazy. Check it!
That honestly sounds like a weird anime thing. "Resist as much as you want. We're gonna serve you and breed with you!". Like a clingy person with a crush that wants your babies, and is just *not* taking the hint that you're uninterested.
Kinda like a Hive Mind that went Yandere for civilizations.
It occurs to me that the reason that borg looks at captain Kim with what would appear to be confusion could be because the mirror Kim is the king.
I don't think that he's the king when you consider Mirror Janeway's borg links...I think there is some sort of alliance or something between Mirror Janeway and the king, and Janeway's crew is off limits, normal universe Harry being ignored because he's the physical duplicate of the terran version means that he's ignored until he starts doing things to them which might have interesting side effects in the mirror universe because of it.
I think I like that better. Well, maybe "like" is the wrong word.
Or maybe that Queen was from the Mirror Universe. That would be an in-universe explanation for why they used a different actress than Alice Kirge.
I was thinking the same thing. Remember what the queen said to Harry in unimatrix 0 “see you soon Harry”.
@@AzraelThanatosJaneway's drones were identical to Prime Borg, rather than having the tactical armor and color coding of the Kingdom.
She could be a sort of artificial Borg like Hakeev was making, but the final dialog in the mission gives, I think, a better hint: the Borg Kingdom is multiversal. They entered the Prime Universe from the Mirror Universe, but if the Ethereans are telling the truth (note STO has done the "new ally is hiding a dark secret and maybe we're on the wrong side" twist like eight times) they may not originate there and the Mirror Universe has its own Green Borg (or had, the Terrans may have used their future tech or god powers to wipe them out).
Kind of interesting that in the Voyager Episode “Living Witness” the heavily skewed historical narrative had Janeway using nanoprobes to create her own drone security force, not entirely unlike Mirror Janeway.
Living Witness was the real Voyager. The rest of the show was based on Janeway's falsified logs.
"Living witness" was the closest they could come to a mirror universe voyager.
Given that DS9 canon had established the empire as being destroyed.
STO simply makes them have a resurgence after Siskos interference, shifting Janeways adventures a few decades back.
@@shaftoe195 Disturbingly likely. NOBODY would ever activate the self destruct as often as Janeway claimed.
that was my favorite Janeway
Great episode
It's interesting that the Mirror Borg are a completely different sort of hive mind than the collective. It's heterogenous in composition, a stratified collective of many whereas the main Borg are a distributed collective that form a single mind. To reference other Sci-fi, I'd compare the prime Borg to something like the tyranids from 40k-thinking, feeling, but uncaring and compelled by a single mind of increase power. The mirror brog would be actually closer to the Necrons in 40k, with a neo feudal hierarchy enforced through programmed compulsion, with all being subject to the will of those above them and the higher up you go, the more individuality persists, with the lowest levels being little more than mindless automatons and the top of the hierarchy having vastly superhuman cognition.
I really do not like STO take on Borg. Borg Cooperative make way more sense.
@@TheRezro I like it. THe Kingdom I hope works with the King being the overiding supreme authority, but allows lower ranks some degree of individuality, this means the Kingdom prioritizes tactical gain and being more aggressive makes them harder to fight, some degree of individuality for lower ranks also allows quicker tactical responses, and if they are still interconnected through some kind of hive mind it likely means higher ranks recieve tactical data from lowers and can act on said data more accordingly, also it's clear the Kingdom is more advanced per individual droen then th Collective. Essentially the COllective is quantity of quality, and the Kingdome quality over quantity, but still numerous enough to be a threat.
@@TheZamaron it's cool both ways
but original was scarier, more an unstoppable cosmic force of nature, compared to sto just being another conquering force
the original borg were entropy
Yes love the necrons! So cool
Main universe Borg: We want to become the perfect lifeform!
Mirror Borg: We want to become the perfect killing machine!
Main universe Borg: We want to become the perfect lifeform.
Mirror Borg: We want to become the only lifeform.
@@windhelmguard5295Post-Picard Borg: "Fire fire fire."
@@windhelmguard5295is there a difference?
The mirror borg should be the good guys 😋
@@windhelmguard5295 So basically this version of the Borg are Daleks lol, supreme beings and all that.
There probably is apocrypha that I'm unaware of covering this but I like to think that The Dominion's mirror counterpart would be The Communion, an almost federation-like version of the Dominion. Sure it's pretty opposite, but I like to think there could be nuances with their Great Link type of hivemind taking a more gentle and generous approach to the solids while still favouring Order.
Yeah it's only a minor thing to invert the prime directive, use your shape-shifting infiltrators not to destroy and spread fear but to uplift societies, give them technological advantages to become part of the communion.
It is not how Mirror Universe work. It was result of Federation becoming its mirror reflection, not the wole universe. And in fact from DS9 we know that Terran Empire doesn't exist anymore. For example mirror Klingons basically become canon Klingons from TNG forward. It is bit clear that during 90's creators though of Mirrorverse as dead, because they attempted to write everything more nuanced. Though if we could speculate:
Terran Empire killing Borg Queen, could potentially lead to 7of9 taking control of Borg Cooperative. Romulans seeing cruelty of Humans and destruction of Vulcan, could possibly have spiritualistic revolution and basically become like Federation. Dominion in my opinion could become more isolationist. I actually like Communion idea. My guess that Odo bring them information about cruelty of Terran Empire. Especially its fall could show parallels to some Dominion activity. Making them rethink they approach.
@@TheRezroI think the idea isn’t that the universe is the same except for the federation, but that the influences of the main universe had a ripple effect resulting in some convergent facts. The mirror Spock seeing that there’s a better way makes changes, weakens the Terran empire as a result attempting to shift it into something like the federation, and thus the relatively peaceful Klingons and cardassians take advantage of and become. Far more militarist. It’s not a complete mirror, but it also isn’t completely the same
One of the novels (Section 31: Disavowed) discussed The Dominion of the Mirror Universe. They wanted to extradite Prime Bashir, because he killed Odo in canon. They were very hesitant to submit to the extradition, but the trial ended up happening.
Surprisingly, they were very reasonable, and when presented with the evidence, testimony, and security feed from Terok Nor, found Bashir not guilty, due to self-defense.
The Changelings of the Mirror Universe had a deep sense of justice (Who would worship an unjust God? Unjust Gods would only be feared.) This led to the speculation: maybe the young Odos were switched when they went through the wormhole.
It sounds like they have a better command structure and behaviour structure than prime universe Borg. You could trick Prime Borg into doing something because, unless they encountered it once before and adapted for it, they are unprepared for whatever it is. Working as one will, that means just ONE mind needs to be tricked. The Queen.
I imagine it's a lot harder to trick Kingdom Borg, due to their actually having individual or semi-individual command units that are there because they adapt well to unusual situations and might actually display some level of imagination and ingenuity, which makes them INFINITELY more dangerous than a just a drone ship. And since they don't debate Net loss, they take greater risks, but might end up with surprisingly greater gains.
I'd find it amusing if the Borg Queen, who can hear echoes of all the other Queens across the multiverse, hits hard resistance when she hears the echoes of the Borg KING and his subcommanders. They wouldn't be part of the Collective, but might be able to tune into their network, if only to send highly complicated code viruses to cause trouble, or maybe a scathing personal message from King to Queen. Because if the Kingdom could destabilize the Collective, then it'd be easier if they ever crossed that multiverse divide; no competition or a weaker one.
All hail the patriarchs 😊
"Tuvix the King and Queen!"
Some Kingdom/collective Cold War might be cool
The first Borg shown at Encounter at Farpoint implied that there was no leadership, just a communal hive mind. Yes, later episodes involved a Queen presumably of a species particularly suited to mental calculations and multi-tasking but having the collective really be just one individual queen that you're dealing with would only mean a delay in capturing the Queen's attention but once her attention was caught, the reaction times should be much quicker which we do not see in cannon where the responses are absurdly slow and adaptations are even forgotten episode to episode. I would say the slow response times of the prime Universe Borg is more about putting concerns and decisions to a broad enough quorum for a consensis with each quorum having to relearn some of the adaptations as they had not yet encountered the issues yet.. If anything, the issues are with multiple minds and of course we all know how decisions by committees are and the effect of the lowest common denominator.
@@johnwang9914 wrong episode. Borg were first shown in "Q Who"
The Borg being so powerful in the Mirror Universe could be used to explain the end of all contact between the Prime and Mirror universe explained in Discovery Season 3. By the 32nd century, no new contacts had been noted for 500 years.
Oo, headcanon accepted
I vaguely remembering the dimensions drifted too far apart or something.
So the two universe can no longer connect and the people in the wrong universe also gets rejected by the universe they are in.
if only sto would let you TRULY live out your goatee twirling machinations and allow us to play real terrans
Yeah. Who knows? The game designers could make the Terran Empire a faction where you get to play as your mirror counterpart and his rise towards becoming an Inquisitor.
They said that adding a mirror playsble characters felt to nazi like. So it was looked at
That sounds like real life with a starship. Jk mostly
Omg I'd pay for that. Add in real pvp too..
I feel like that would just be GTA with a Star Trek skin.
I have enjoyed the Borg since they were first introduced officially to us in the TNG episode "Q-Who". By far they are the best overall enemy in Star Trek, in my opinion. Thanks for another fantastic video!
I've always thought of the Borg as a force of nature that is above & beyond good and evil. They just are.
I think that the main point of the Borg is to be very unnatural. They want to assimilate everything, which for them is same as to "save" other more primitive (natural order) species and civilzations.
Any civilization is always outside of the scope of nature, in metaphysics. We humans can create causalities which could not happen without this autonomous role we poses. Same applying to the Borg collective, but much greater degree.
Id say forcefully erasing someone's personality to serve a collective is certainly evil. It's called personality death and is a form of murder.
@@F0r3v3rT0m0rr0wNot at all, but I get where you're coming from. Think of it like a tornado. It kills hundreds of people, but is it evil? The Borg as an entity may be evil, but the Borg as individuals aren't evil. A Borg cube isn't evil. It simply exists. The dumb queen is evil, the Borg arent
in dungeons and dragons terms they are lawful neutral at latest pre queen. They're not good because Why they think they're making everything better there not doing it for others but for the cokkective. there not evil despite harming everyone they believe they are bringing order to chaod.. saving everyone. the Queen does appear to be evil.
@@F0r3v3rT0m0rr0w In your viewpoint that is how you view the actions of the Borg, but to the Borg they see it as offering these species a 'Better Life' and a chance to become more than they are.
I am so glad they didn't just flip good/bad it's always what people think the Mirror Universe is because of the many parodies doing only that.
Every franchise needs its comic relief. Franchises that take themselves too seriously all the time tend to feel contrived.
yeah, it doesn't even go with established mirror universe lore. from what we've seen, the mirror universe is mostly just more evil in general, i don't remember seeing any actual flips beyond the original terran empire
@@SpooglecraftAny member of the Terran Rebellion says hello, and politely disagrees. Ferengi in general have been a lot less self-serving in the mirror universe, so that's a flip for example, and firmly rooted in canon too.
@@dominic.h.3363 is that in a book? On the shows, it seems like Ferengi are identical in both universes
@@prophetzarquon1922 No, it's in DS9. Nothing is canon that isn't in a TV series as far as I'm concerned.
So Borg are bees and Mirror Borg are wasps?
Hornets.
That's a good analogy 😂 Someone, quick, get me a *big* can of Raid!
@@SeaSkorpion somebody call Q
Good comparison.
I'd sayirror universe borg be solitairy bees.
One thing from the final dialog a lot of people have missed is that while the Borg Kingdom entered the Prime Universe from the Mirror Universe, and were active there at the end of the V'ger incident, they may not originate there. The Etherean states they are multiversal and these are just the most recent fronts in their war.
One thing has always bothered me about fighting the Borg. You are always having to remodulate your weapons and shields. Why the hell are they not using old school BALISTIC WEAPONS!! Fire up a damn Gauss cannon or kinetic kill vehicle. Picard showed how effective a Tommy Gun on a Holodeck was and yet they still use phasers and ONLY phasers.
As a big fan of the Tommy Gun, since the time I saw my first gangster movie, I was practically bouncing up and down in my theater seat during that scene 😂 omfg *that* was an epic moment to me, and in all my years of pencil and paper RPGs on Star Trek, that's exactly how I deal with the Borg. Replicate a Tommy Gun for everyone 😂 BOOM! Babies!
@@SeaSkorpion ironically enough they had an event in Star Trek online where you could get the Tommy gun and because it does kinetic damage instead of energy, it is legitimately one of the best options for fighting the Borg 😂
We never actually see the borg come underfire from projectile weapons, and never gor sustained fire. The might just adapt and throw a navigational shield up.
The Tommy gun scene while fun, doesn't actually prove anything. The bullet is a shaped force field, not an actual bullet and the sample size is small. Killing a Borg or two just means they have to collect data and adapt. A basic phaser can kill a few Borg before they adapt. No the real test would be under continuous combat, not a 12 second burst. Then if they don't adapt, a statement about how effective projectiles are can be made. Until then we have an energy weapon used in a limited duration. So basic Starfleet encounter.
the main advantage that the mirror borg have is that they are capable of deception, subterfuge, but also innovation
they also are by their nature unpredictable.
like the borg queen is created primarily to do these things when met with a threat that can not be overcome by throwing drones at the problem until it goes away, like the federation or species 8472.
the issue with that is that this is just one queen doing all the heavy lifting and since each queen is basically just a clone of the last one, if you've met one of them, you've met them all, once you've figured out how to destroy one borg cube, you can destroy them all (until the collective adapts, but that takes precious time.)
the mirror borg, every borg cube at least is different, they'll use different strategies, make different modifications to their hardware, tell different lies and so on, you manage to kill one kingdom cube? well the one right next to it is it's own animal with completely different weaknesses so have fun figuring that one out.
I like to think of the Mirror Borg like an altruistic Triple A. They just cruise around the galaxy looking for ships in need of help and they change flat tires and repair cracked windshields.
A different kind of assimilation where people willingly join the Borg and help expand their services across the universe. Like Triple A.
@@rayvenkman2087That's the Borg Colonial Expansion, ie Us. We assimilate only the willing unless we have no other choice. We have superior technology to all.
They would probably confuse the Pakleds to no end. Just freely helping make their ships "go" and giving them free starside assistance.
I was thinking more a space hippy commune, but AAA works too.
Not sure it they're cannon, but I remember reading a Mirror universe novel where the Borg ships there were still cubes, but they were oriented on the diagonal, like a diamond. And they also had a "king" instead of a Queen.
Luc Picard there infected the King's ship with an Iconian virus and destroyed it.
Man, I bet rotating all the Kingdom's ships 45° was problematic in STOnline, but that would have been a really subtle & funny touch & I think it's a shame they're not shown that way in-game!
I remember a book like that but it wasn't the mirrorverse it was an alternate history, I cant remember the whole details but it was part of a series of what ifs, I remember the Cube being destroyed by the Inconian Virus and the Borg King thinking to itself, maybe next time ill be a Queen instead. Don't know if its the same book though.
@@David-cb1ct That's the one. You see the Klingon occupation of Earth, the Picard vineyards ruined, and some Klingons guzzling the last bottle of Chateau Picard in existence.
@@Unpainted_Huffhines Oof, that'd be brutal to guzzle: I've heard it's got an overly dry finish.
@@prophetzarquon1922 iirc, it "wasnt blood wine, but it will do for now!"
I never saw the Borg as evil. Just runs like a program. There is no evil intent. Just collection of use.
Pretty much, yes. A program with just one objective and nothing to restrict the achievement of this objective. So they lack morals or any kind of ethic other than assimilate to achieve perfection, so we see this as clearly evil, when they´re just as evil as an earthquake or a flesh eating bacteria.
There is no malice, but there is evil.
@@SchneeflockeMonsoon But are they? Outside of the Queen at times getting petty, drones don't get revenge. The Borg infect a person and then rewrite a good deal of that person. They spread like a virus with a purpose. With each species is changed, is one cell in a culture that is infected. When too many cells are infected a culture will fall to assimilation. It's not really evil, it's just the purpose of the Borg. They operate along their instruction, "acquire knowledge and add it to the collective."
Or would we see it as evil because of they strip away a person's identity and ability to choose?
Sounds like Commie Talk!
Evil is banal don’t you know?
I would love to see a conflict with a hyper good universe with little conflict. To them the Federation hopping around the universe and rapid incorporation of nearby star systems might seem itself as hostile.
The main universe coming into conflict with a universe where the concept of war is unimaginable is a good one. Flips the typical mirror universe plot on it's head. Allows for a VERY good moment when the prime universe crew realize *they* are the bad guys here.
Interesting to note, as well: the Borg saying “resistance is futile” is an homage to Dr Who’s Daleks saying “resistance is useless,” and the mirror Borg saying “resistance will be annihilated,” continues this by homaging the Daleks saying “you will be annihilated.”
Exterminate!
Exterminate!
Oh No!
Stairs!
Foiled again!
@@erichtomanek4739 Ahhhh ok, Claptrap from Borderlands was a Borg. It all makes sense now. No wonder Sir Hammerlock hates him so much.
The introduction of the Queen completely ruined the Borg as antagonists. Before her, what was truly terrifying about the Borg was that they had no leader, they were a hive mind. Everything they did, all of their decisions represented the collective will of every one of their members. Members who, as individuals, were probably not much different from you or me, but when collectivized, became downright psychotic. What made the Borg scary was that they truly did hold up a mirror to humanity and represent what we ourselves were capable of becoming if we let mob mentality run amok. But then the Queen was introduced, and the Borg were demoted to the status of just another interstellar dictatorship whose people just fell in line with the will of their tyrannical leader, no different from the Klingons or the Romulans. It is a classic example of the "villain decay" trope.
Where did this "The Queen rules Collective" come from?
I remember the Queens being the equivalent to regional managers, governing a location and the Borg there, but being beholden to the Collective as a whole. We even see a Queen argue with the Collective in Endgame.
I can't believe this game is 14 years old and still coming up with better content than the actual live action shows are.
But the question is, did the collective and the Kingdom have an understanding ? What stops them from invading each other?
M.A.D. probably...
The Collective would see the Kingdom as a threat they couldn't risk provoking due to the similarities, and the Kingdom probably viewed the Collective in a similar way. If either interacted with the other they'd risk having their authority overwritten by their opposing dimension's counterpart, which, when dealing with a hive-mind, is an EXTEREMELY high risk; the Collective could be lost in it's entirety in an instant, or the Kingdom could be assimilated piece-by-piece (with each "piece" being huge swaths of their networked minds).
With neither willing to make the first move, they'd be in a cautious interdimensional stalemate and/or cold-war style arms race.
One would be if they didn't have any technology borg would want from each other it wouldn't worth to fight over similar technology with a similar force.
@Thescott16 and now the kingdom seems to have made the first move will be interested to see if the prime borg decide to get involved.
There could be physical dangers to attempting something like that. We don't actually know what would happen if a _substantial_ amount of matter were transported interdimensionally. We've only ever seen a few hundred kilograms (in the form of an away team or similar) being transported interdimensionally.
Just watch the 1`00s of hours, not the fart
STO is obviously very unrealistic as the Oberth Class ship shown would have blown up at first sight of a Borg Sphere. Literally if a Borg farted on a Sphere or Cube the sound wave would destroy a Oberth.
😂
I think an Oberth was one of the few survivors of the Battle of Wolf.
@@gmradio2436 Oberth was probably the Spaceship equivalent to the Kazon for the Borg. "No no if we assimilate that it will cause problems, it'd be a waste of energy to destroy it, and it looks like its going to fall apart any moment anyway. So Moving on."
@@Tazkar That is actually accurate from what I understand.
*We are the Borg! We refuse to assimilate you! Your technology is vastly inferior, even to your own comrades. Self destruct your ship and save everyone else the trouble.*
Everything in reverse is just so much more fun though! I always imagined the mirror Borg kinda like this:
We are the Borg! Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add our biological and cultural distinctiveness to your own. Our culture will adapt to service you. Resistance is rude.
Heart-shaped ships, painted in vibrant pinks and purple.
@@NeilEvans-xq8ik maple leaf shaped ships , painted in Habs colours .
That's basically what the federation does.
@@jonathanellis6097 You are not wrong.
I'd argue that The Borg are no more evil than a predator roaming a forest. They're more like a force of nature than something one could easily apply traditional morality to, IMO.
Humans frequently think of predators as evil. Just look at their comments on nature channels, especially if it's a ugly animal like a crocodile. Many people have gone full Disney in their assessment of nature.
"We are the Borg. Lower your shields and come on over. We have chips and beer. Your distinct barbecue will be added to our own Recreation is fun.
I had thought of alternate versions of the Borg as a kid with TNG's episode "Parallels"(I think), the one where the realities all get mixed together and we see a wounded Ryker. I would've loved to have explored a universe where the Borg happen to be the only choice for survival and ultimately the good guys in a universe where a universal threat pushes everyone to collectively join the Borg.
The Borg were a lot scarier when they were a true hive mind rather than a bunch of drones subjugated to a single individual, king or queen. I can understand why they changed them, it's much harder to write stories for a vast collective consciousness than one person with what amounts to a bunch of extra hands, but they were much more interesting.
Agreed. My understanding is that Executives wanted a 'villain' figure to have it 'make more sense to people' in First Contact.
@@davidgipe997 It's hard to argue with the outcome though, as First Contact was a _fantastic_ movie and the Borg Queen was a compelling, badass villain. Come on, time travel PLUS the Borg?? So many great scenes in it, including the ever present threat of the crew being assimilated, Picard losing it and going off the rails, Worf's statement about killing him where he stood, the Borg Queen's seduction of Data (which made it _so_ personal for Picard, and thus, the viewer), the Zephram Cochrane subplot, Data's line about how long he considered the Queen's offer to join her (pure perfection), and even the scene where the Holo-Doctor (hats off to the brilliant Robert Picardo) hilariously offers a Borg drone some "analgesic cream" for his "severe skin irritations", which was perfect in the way it broke the ever climbing Borg induced tension. Jonathan Frakes did a _fantastic_ job of directing it and I've watched it more times than all the other TNG movies put together. It was definitely on par with _Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home._ 10/10
absolutly.. the orginal TNG Borg where terrifing - nobody to speak with .. how they disect the enterprice and just don't care about the humans was so.. well alien to the other species in the trek univers
Soooo the main question no one seems to be asking (at least as far as I’ve barely read in comments) what about mirror universe Q ? Did they introduce the borg to the alpha quad? Do they exist? If so how are they compared to “prime Q.”?
Since Q exists as a multi dimensional being, my theory would be that he is aware of both universes and in a way exists in both simultaneously as one person
My headcanon: "While Prime Q are mischievous in their intent... Mirror Q are morally bankrupt."
Indeed, that is my theory as well.
The Q are omni-dimensional, and Q is Q, no matter what universe you're in.
@@The_Keeper Maybe rather than "Prime" versus "Mirror" Q, it's more like "Model Citizen" versus "Hard Criminal" Q. So the latter are locked up in "Q Prison".
I can't recall for sure, but I thought one of the novels explored Q in the mirror universe and it is indeed the same Q. I could be wrong, but I swear I read it in a novel. I've read *a lot* of the novels over the decades of Star Trek 😂 So no idea which novel, mind you, but I think it's out there.
Mirror Universe Borg: Anarchist collective of voluntary individuals. Famous for their phrase:
"Feel free to cooperate with us, or don't, that's cool too."
I like to think of mirror Borg, as a collective of free individuals, that go about encouraging other groups not to join them, but to break free of other dominant groups, such as the Terran Empire. They do use technology to augment themselves, but it a last resort to repair injuries from clashes with the Terrans.
Borg are just max level Pakleds at this point. lol
Congratulations... you just managed to insult the _Pakled..._
You know what I'm sold. I'd join the Borg if I can keep my individuality.
I was so disappointed when the Borg were given a hierarchical command structure and a leader. It weakened them as a story foe and made them far less horrific. Militarily it made them subject to a decapitation strike. Just a bad idea all around.
They could have even explored that with Locutus. He became a target and by rescuing him they foiled the entire plot.
Right? Their true horror wasn't the body-horror, it was that the Borg was essentially an unfathomable faceless monster! They could not be reasoned with or even understood in anyway that mattered by us. An unreasonable alien foe in every sense.
Adding any personality with an individualised angle/edge/nature ruins the entire 'monster'.
Going from 3km on each side of the Cube to 10km on each side isn’t just over triple the size, as stated in the video. It’s 37 times larger. Tripling it on one axis would be triple the size. Tripling it on all three axes is a *hell* of a lot larger! :-)
An answer to a question that I had never even thought of. Fascinating.
I always thought it would be a beautiful twist if in the Mirror Universe the Borg are basically the Federation ideologically but with more advanced cybernetic technology: like the Federation, they would aim to bring as many as possible diverse peoples and technologies together and integrate them into a unified whole that is stronger than any of them were separately, which the prime Borg already do, just in a forced, involuntary way, while these mirror Borg would be voluntary like the prime Federation. But then differentiating them from the Federation, are resembling the prime Borg, they would have cybernetic networking between them all, not as a hive mind, but as a shared pool of knowledge and power that they can each access, making every individual just a unique name, face, and voice of that shared pool. Likewise their bodies would be technologically augmented, I'm imagining something like Ghost in the Shell where every mind can hop around into whatever different synthetic body it wants, though perhaps not entirely mechanical robotic bodies but "cellular-level cyborgs", organic cells in symbiosis with nanoprobes forming biomechanical tissues.
No no. Obviously the mirror borg say.. "hi, would you like to be assimilated into our friendship? Oh gosh we are being so forward, no pressure! Your bulkheads are so pretty "
a fascinating idea, maybe the mirror borg would simply be a benevolent technological archive that accepts any and all knowledge and freely distributes said knowledge to anyone interested.
I so wish they made a ST Borg game where you played as the Borg in attempts to conquer planets by assimilating everyone . Go on away missions, be the Queen and command units. That would be just the best.
as RTS game, basically another Starcraft. :)
@@sleepingbackbone7581 I could see a cool mix of a resource management, 4x game, and a tactical squad shooter type game depending upon specifics.
Drop in as some drones while being able to give orders to the AI forces to do things while you manage the composition of what you have while having an adaptation thing that slowly adjusts in different ways. Then bounce out to different levels across the galaxy to manage resources in different hot spots that you would need to deal with and other things as you go.
I wholeheartedly concur!
The did with Q(John DeLancia s the narator,
th-cam.com/video/8GvEDBHAld8/w-d-xo.html
At some point there was such a game in development around 2k or so, with screenshots in mags and everything. I think the title was Star Trek: Assimilation (correction: Star Trek: Borg Assimilator - there is a short article on Memory Alpha). Since that never saw the light of day, it must have turned out to be unplayable.
Mirror Borg : Hey, you guys wanna join our super awesome collective of really cool people?
Humans: No thanks.
Mirror Borg: That's cool. Have an awesome day! Peace and love y'all!
We are the Borg. You can be assimilated if you want. Resistance is understandable. But there's, like, technological and biological distinctiveness, man.
In both universes the Borg would be the sum of those they assimilated. If the Mirror Borg were more draconian in their operations it's because they assimilated more draconian species.
I was under the impression that the mirror universe had its changes limited to the alpha quadrant and the knock on effects from that. The change to the Borg and Iaconians don't match up with that.
I wouldn't say the borg are actually evil in the prime universe, they seek perfection and wish to unify all species, it's like a self learning AI built with the full intention of helping bring peace to everyone, and everything while trying to perfect itself to achieve that goal while also misinterpreting its creators desires
I've never been a fan of the mirror universe. I get the point of the conceit, but I found the Dominon to be a more interesting way to explore an inversion of the Federations ideals.
It's because the Dominion is real and in "our world" and it leaves lasting effects. The Dominion, much like The Joker always attempts but fails with batman, forces the Federation to break their rules and what the Federation realizes, is once some things are broken, they can never be put back together again. The Federation can never go back to being the explorers of the TOS or even the slightly militarized explorers of the TNG era, because of the Dominion Starfleet will forevermore be, first and foremost, a military force.
The description of the Defiant in DS9 as being "The first WARSHIP ever produced by starfleet" isn't a throwaway line. It means Starfleet has crossed the proverbial Rubicon and they cannot go back. Yes it was originally designed by Sisko et al. to fight the Borg, but it was first USED against the Dominion.
@@milhousevanhoutan9235 Yes, exactly 🙂
I'd never considered a mirror universe Borg... But since the prime Borg were a dark reflection of the Federation, I think a "good" Borg collective would be more interesting. "You will be assimilated for your own good".
As we head into the more spooky time of year, I find the addition of militaristic mirror borg to be appropriate for the coming seasonal setting.
When you think back to the good old days of TNG and how the borg were this near unstoppable force that turned all we are against the ones we love by forceful assimilation, it literally was a horror story in Star Trek fashion.
Although many may not see it the same now having been jaded by a constantly rising bar of shock value & the over exposure of borg that came with Voyager. (P.S. still love the Voyager series even for it's flaws)
We appreciate you just the way you are. Your uniqueness will be preserved so that we can admire your progress. Have a nice day.
Dominion, you say? I wonder what they get up to in the Mirror Universe. Were the Changelings protective OF their junior races instead of using junior races to protect themselves?
according to the logic.. in the mirror universe, the dominion should be like the federation in our universe. still with vortas and jem hadar a ss geneticaly modified species for administration and warfare - but the dominion would be democratic organiced and the species can join peasfully and all work together towards peace and liberty - the founders would be a religious order, that teach the species and help them with their knowlede, but they refuse to use force or power..
Finally something to bring back the fear that the Borg used to have. Back when just the suggestion of the Borg being involved somewhere remotely close put you as a Trek watcher on edge. They need their boogyman back.
And speaking of the kings and queens arc online, wonder if will soon see multiple versions of the borg collective and other prime universe entities
Starfleet Captain Sela Yar.
The Kazon not being worth assimilation because the Borg would have nothing to gain is humorously insulting in a way.
I always though a mirror universe borg would be like a great collector of sentient species.
So you telling me I can just board a borg cube with a broom, a mop, and a bucket, say HEYO! to the borg, start sweeping and mopping and they won't give a shit; OKAY 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I've never been a huge fan of the Borg Queen conceptually personally, but this brutal Borg King version with the semi-autonomous Borg cubes does sound appropriate for the Mirror Universe lol. Thank you for another interesting video.
God be with you out there everybody. ✝️ :)
It would have to certainly be likely that both Borg.. races? factions? they would have to have met each other at one point. And if that were true, I thnk it opens up the possibility of them both actually being the same Borg, just one. A King and Queen, each with the universe they're in, and adapting their collectives to suit the situations, in constant communication with each other. Maybe. Just head canon speculation, of course.
I thought in Picard season 2, they were brought into the mirror universe, and the borg was rather different there.
Maybe that was, yet another universe, or alternative timeline?
Altered timeline
it was another timeline
That was the confederation timeline ironically the confederation was closer to the federation that the mirror universe empire as the confederation, from my understanding were just the federation if they were basically human first.
Alternate timeline. And even though I consider Discovery and Picard non-canon (like many fans), season 2's timeline is set within an alternate timeline where the Federation never comes to existence and is instead replace with a oppressive regime called the Confederation. I felt the plot of season 2 would've been a whole lot better if Q had altered the Mirror Universe timeline where the Terran Empire never fell to the Alliance and continues they're oppressive regime over the mirror universe, kinda like those novels where in the mirror next gen, set in an alternate mirror universe (irony), where the Terran Empire never fell and Picard leads a crew of gangsters and madmen in his pursuits of conquest.
If logical thought was used, the Mirror Universe Borg would be exactly the same. The universe changed for some due to a single starting event (and aided by a later event documented in Enterprise) none of which would have impacted the Borg.
In terms of STO, it makes you wonder what would happen if the Kingdom assimilated a Collective Queen or vice versa. I'm also wondering about the 'Liberated Borg', their foundations were laid a good few years ago with whole cubes being comprised of them that utilised blue lights. If I remember rightly, there was a mission chain where they would come in to act as an ally. There was rumours that Cryptic were going to let players have a liberated Borg as a playable character although I'm not sure if it ever came to pass. Either way its good to see the Borg as a whole get more love, and now effectively have 3 individual factions. Much like how you can choose between a Romulan or a Reeman, and a Klingon or a Nausican.
Liberated Borg are available for Lifetime Subscribers.
what if the federation used traditional firearms (what we use now) to fight & destroy the Borg? Like Picard did on the Holodeck in the movie
Crossbows would be more fun - Large medieval crossbows.
Would be interesting to see what the Borg would do with Iconian Tech......
We got a taste of that in the two parter mission “The Measure of Morality.”
Maybe the real difference is how collectivist and individualist each dimension is.
Federation likes freedom for all. Terran empire is an individualistic empire.
I wouldn't consider the borg evil. They are just the borg.
Yup.
Not evil, just... uncaring.
Like a forrestfire, sweeping you away, not because it is evil, but because you were simply in its path.
@@The_Keeper Forest fires aren't sentient though. The Borg are ruled by Queens who have their full cognitive faculties and know the difference between good and evil, right and wrong. Subjugating entire worlds for their own benefit, to the detriment of said worlds and their numerous, unique populations and cultures, _just because they can,_ is _textbook evil._
@@tikdoph fair point.
Yeah, they would probably be considered somewhere between “chaotic neutral” and “true neutral”. The reasons being that they are like a controlled chaos that only seeks out what benefits themselves/itself. They don’t care who’s “good” or “bad”. They only seek out to achieve their own agenda of “perfection” via assimilation.
@@The_Keeper Where did the Queens rulings the Collective come from? I ask because I can point to Endgame to show the Queens are subservient to the Collective as a whole. That and at least 3 have died on screen.
"We are the Borg. We currently have no positions open. Applying is futile."
The Borg of the Mirror Universe should be travelling the galaxy freeing enslaved planets and communities and giving them technology to start a new life.
"Just because someone is evil in the prime universe doesn't mean that they are good in the mirror universe. Look at Janeway!"
The Borg Queen is a dumb idea. They were much scarier before First Contact.
The Borg are not evil. They are simply a large computer that wishes to LEARN, in the only way they can.
Assimilate and process.
Love the video. Have you been able to determine what ground and space weapons the Mirror Borg are using. Their beams and ground weapons are RED, are they using antiprotons instead of plasma?🤔
If they are using antiproton weapons it could mean that they have assimilated the voth or even the solanae dyson sphere entirely. i may be wrong but i believe the voth are the only living race in sto that uses ap weapons, there is the iconians too but im thinking the twist in the story is that the other massive ship in this mission are the mirror universe iconians, with a different name
I liked the idea that "borg" is a label and not a group kind of how Cyberman is a label for cyborg in Who-verse and Cylon was a label for artificial life in the Battlestar universe. Borg could even be a fermi-barrier in which races reach a point that they start augmenting themselves and integrating into a collective vs staying individual.
what would happen if the BORG assimilated the BORG KINGDOM?
Unrelenting, oppressive order throughout the galaxy.
@coralcopperhead685 either that or the Queen would write a last-second sleeper program eventually resulting in something akin to the Lore/Early-Seasons Goa'uld...
Realistic to either? Maybe not. Does it matter? Not since a _Queen of The COLLECTIVE_ became a _thing_
I never liked the Borg Queen. I always thought that the hive mind was more dangerous.
Wouldn’t Living Witness (VOY season 4 ep 23) be counted as canon for the mirror universe Borg?
No, it takes place in the future of the main universe
I always thought the mirror universe borg would be like a sort of safeguard of the best of each species. Not forcing every species to submit to it but rather a slow burn sort of acquisition through subtlety and its best and most positive attributes. I also thought that there would be a more Merciful aspect of the assimilation you would keep your "self" But more like be constantly online than anything mindless
Borg = evil:
Not quite.
Now, sure, the Borg's intent is purely to become more perfect.
However:
Not taking the fail that is ST-Voy as cannon, as it is not, the Borg established true Utopia.
Each rule that makes a Utopia, can be checked off, for the Borg Collective.
Also:
Though they do not intent this effect, they FACTUALLY bring Universal Peace and Prosperity through assimilation:
Even the worst of enemies work side by side, once assimilated, for the "greater good", the continuity of the Borg.
ugh... from the first season of voyager until its last season i patiently waited for the mirror universe episode .... it never came...
So it seems this version is slightly more prone to the "Bull bait" tactic of getting someone to attack you or act aggressively to lead them into a trap, but I'm sure that tactic only works vaguely since Kingdom Borg still learn from events.
Seeing this version makes me wonder of other versions, and I can't help but imagine with my silly brain, a version in a weirder universe dedicated to partying.
"We are the borg, lower your shields, if you want, and we'll assimilate you into a NEVERENDING PARTY!"
Someone tried to make an argument for a mirror undine/8472. I tried to remind them that fluidic space was already an alternative universe. They would not hear it.
The Borg should be the same in both universes. The timeline split happens when a dark humanity encounters Vulcans. The Halkans are the same. Spock is basically the same; Vulcans had to adapt after being subjugated by humans. The rest of the Universe isn't mirrored; just the effects of humanity in space.
In the mirror universe YOU assimilate the Borg.
Thanks, I love Borg things and alternate histories/realities.
Borg would have been very similar to Spock in the Mirror Universe. 100% Logic without any emotion to their motives.
I love the concept of an assimilated Soong! It gives mirror Data an arc to fight the kingdom to retrieve the imprint of his father and meet his brother Lore, created by the Kingdom to be the perfect nonorganic drone, they can have centuries long battles for the fate of the galaxy, either way ruled by AI...
The idea of mirror universe Borg being really nice and helping people, whether they wanted it or not, is very amusing.
"You will lower your shields and allow our engineers on board to fix your warp nacelles! Resistance is futile!"
A borg kingdom reminds me of the 3rd borg dynasty. those were the days!
Was always curious did the mirror universe have your own versions of the Q
A cube that measures 10 km on a side is 37 times larger than a cube that measures 3 km on a side. I suppose "over triple the size" is technically accurate.
What if both Borg met and both began assimilating each other until they became a third version of the Borg.
Man it just makes me happy to see someone still playing sto in 2023. What a fun game it was.
And the Picard comes along and completely forgets all of this and makes the mirror birg basically a multiversal race!
What? When did the Mirror Borg show up in Picard?
Star Trek writers: "We have humans, we have elves (Vulcans), we have dark elves (Romulans), and we have Orcs (Klingons). Now we need an undead enemy of some kind, but this is a sci-fi universe, so magical zombies just won't do. Hmm... I KNOW!".
10km to a side would make the cube about 35 time as voluminous. Impressive
I think it would be more interesting if in the mirror universe, the Borg Kingdom's ships were primarily a shape other than a cube. Perhaps they are diamond shaped, like two pyramids put together. Or perhaps some other basic shape, like a cylinder.
I was disappointed that the mirror Borg were not flower-loving, tree-hugging hippies.