Ram Is Recalling Nearly 1 MILLION Cummins Diesels - Here's How The Truck Performs BEFORE the Recall!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ม.ค. 2024
- ( www.allTFL.com ) Check out our new spot to find ALL our TFLstudios content, from news to videos and our podcasts! Ram Is Recalling Nearly 1 Million Cummins Diesels - Here's How It Performs BEFORE the Recall.
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#ram #cummins #recall - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Ford did something similar about a year ago. My truck lost about 1 MPG after the update and used more DEF. recently lost my emissions equipment in a boating accident.
Man those boat ramps sure are brutal. 😂
Lol hate when that happens
I hope the boat is ok?
If they find out, you're going to pay for an entire system or get your truck crushed. Aint worth deleting.
@ineedapharmists depending where you live, you will never be checked. And without asking, I bet he kept everything
A dyno test before and after would be great, too.
Yes, the best comparison would be before and after tests on the same dyno.
Well....what about torque limiting. These trucks are garbage with the torque management. I dont know that you would even see a change. I have a 22 with the "little cummins"
Once upon a time I had a Ford 6.0....it was an 05 for the F6 trans and from a dig that truck would spank my 22....even though the Cummings is rated much higher.
The 0-60 on HO VS standard....is almost identical despite the HO having another 200 lb/ft and more HP.
I don't think you will even see this recall in daily commenting for performance. Living with the truck pulling a service trailer and a heavy bed service box you probably will....thst requires all the beans.
Tq management affects 1st-2nd I think maybe 3rd but the 1:1 ratio with 3:73 gears in ram is 4th gear think it would be fine on the dyno just lock it in 4th
@@wadebrewer7212it got spanked because you call it a Cummings.
@user-ln7of9gs4s my bad. I dont proof reed...its youtube and far from the most important thing in my life
I had the ECM update done two weeks ago and the only noticeable difference is DEF usage did increase. Power, performance and mileage don’t appear to be affected at this time.
With it being a NOx related issue, your experience 100% makes sense. DEF is primarily used to reduce NOx emissions. With all of the big players using DEF, I would be curious if pre-update cummins trucks use less DEF than their Powerstroke or Duramax counterparts (same years).
@@edwardpeters4700i’m very curious about this too. I wonder if there’s a slightly dated video comparing DEF consumption between Duramax, power stroke and Cummins
For what it’s worth my 2020 duramax goes approximately 6k on a 2.5 gallon jug of def
You have an idea about how much? Our 15 ram 3500 cab and chassis uses about 2.5 gallons per 50 gallons of fuel. But its worked pretty hard.
@@stevenwescott1422 I just filled this past Friday, will see what the average is now.
Glad they haven’t given a date yet. Keeps my favorite TFL truck in the fleet longer.😊
I’m sure they’ll take it to the local dealer and will have the TFL truck in and out fast. They don’t want to be messing around with a company who has a huge TH-cam and media presence. Everyone else, good luck to you.
Anxious to see part 2, gents. 🙂
Hey TFL - can you please do a dyno test before/after as well? That would likely be the most conclusive - Thanks for doing these tests!!
2019-2023 will not be recalled according to the EPA.
Kori @Pppei is doing testing and data collection before and after the recall with an emissions engineer to see the difference. They should be able to determine the problem as well as the result. This happens in February. Hopefully late Feb or early March we will know exactly transpired. So far, no one I’ve seen posted an impact
@@Dusdaddyis that new information? I haven’t received a notice….yet
@@stinkymcstinkerton1854 Nothing new, it's right on the EPA's website and repeated on the CARB website. Nobody said the 2019-2023 were getting recalled except the TH-camrs. They even stated why, nothing to fix.
@@DusdaddyI looked it up after shortly after I posted . My first alert was from this channel. . I was relieved to read Gen 5 not included. I just got done dealing with stellantis on an ecodiesel. Gen 4. It’s wasn’t easy…
Odd they’re testing the 22
This is probably one of the best most informative video you can make to test all of these changes I can’t wait for results.
If Cummins does a recall why do they not recall the heating plate bolt! Thank you for the video guys!
They did.
Relay was recalled for staying on and melting the bolt insulator. But the killer bolt and insulator is still there waiting to weaken from years of cycling. Wiggle test still applies.
Thank you guys for really taking this seriously, can’t wait for the follow up video 👍🤗🤗
Great initial test guys! I had an emissions recall on my f250 and didn't see any changes after pcm flash. Hopefully it's the same for you!
Do you think Ford has been "cheating" too and trying to fix it before they get caught?
I just got my recall yesterday. I’m waiting for your next video before I do anything. Thanks for doing all of this testing. You guys rock.
What year truck? Curious because the EPA says the TFL truck, 2022, will not be part of the recall.
For all y’all truck owners in California that have to deal with this, I raise my glass to you for putting up with these kinds of setbacks. 🍻
I raise my glass to the Californians stupid enough to still be in California.
That’s awesome that y’all are setting a current reference point. This will help to identify where the changes were made. Hopefully this update won’t neuter the Cummins like they did the ecodiesel, that truck cold would have no power from a standstill and once you hit 2k rpm it’s finally had some power
Except their truck won't be recalled according to the EPA. Only the 2013-2018 will.
When is the video of after the recall going to come out?
I’m here looking for the answer to the same question.
@TFL please find a friend shop to do a dyno test before and after. It would be very telling and make for great content
My 16 and 18 went under a weight loss program as soon as they left the lot. Sooooo no worries!
I do believe I can also do that to a truck as well since there is no smog in my state.
They live in Cali 2.0. Not gonna happen.
I'm betting power loss and fuel economy loss after the recall....
And increased DEF usage lol
Reliability loss
DEF usage will drop as that's what's injected to control NOx. Fuel economy is DEFINITELY going to take a hit as it will need to run richer with more EGR to reduce combustion temps. Power may be ok as these engines have lots of tuning left on the table to compensate. And given it's not a bad as Volkswagen, it's probably not going to be as drastic. But what do I really know.
💯. … had semi truck go in for maintenance and get program updates… lower power settings, drank more fuel and was gutless
No power loss. This was discovered way back in 2019. The 2019s got the update years ago with recall VB6, the 2020+ already have the updated software from the factory and this includes the power increase in 2021. 2013-2018 are now getting it in the mail.
Dyno the motor!
Great informational video as always, guys. This will be super beneficial to Cummins owners to help them understand what this recall is going to mean for their truck's performance.
Great review, waiting for the followi-up post recall. And rocking the Rush shirt... even better!
wow you guys are real heroes for doing this
I really like your testing procedures, my only thing is I would like to have seen the towing and empty mpg loops been the same loop. Not that it would really effect anything just more of a personal preference. The only other thing I could think of for testing would be to see if you could book a Dyno appointment and get real world horsepower and torque numbers before and after recall. That being said I love the persision and care yall are taking in doing the before and after testing
Very well put together video guys!
Thank you for the kind words.
Love you guys for doing this.
Love that I got a banks pedal commander add during this. Don’t have a diesel yet but lovebanks
Love the sound of that Cummins
Yes. Sounds great!
The fuel consumption towing that ute is pretty impressive especially allowing for elevation, weight and lack of aero.
In 2014 I hired a new (about 1600miles on clock) E350 RV with the 5.4 V8 petrol engine, a good day was 10mpg more often 7mpg at interstate speeds.
For contrast towing a full height caravan around Australia with a 2.8 litre VM diesel powered Colorado at 100k mostly 5th gear, 6th in no wind / following wind, uses 17 l / 100 (13.5 mpg) most times, 20 l / 100 (11.5 mpg) into a sandstorm.
Just goes to show diesel is the berries for towing.
I keep hearing good things about the 6.7 litre Ram and I think Andre's towing test figures confirm that.
I work at a dodge dealer. The recall is a 67A and its been out since November
Only for 2013-2018. 2019 had VB6 and 2020+ came with the update from the factory.
for 2013-2021 or all engines to 2024?
Question. Why is Ram issuing this for so many trucks when the EPA says only certain 2019 trucks and 2013-2015 trucks that didn't receive S87 needs it.
And for trucks that receive 67A without being on the EPA list, do they still get the extended warranty?
Thanks for the info
Hi great videos guys, thanks 4 doing these tests. what about doing the test for the two engines, regular and high output. thanks
I didn’t notice any changes after the VB6 recall on my 2019. Hopefully for the later models, the recall’s impact to vehicle performance is unnoticeable.
-3 mpg ftw
The VB6 is not the recall for the Cummins fine. 67A is the recall.
I love the inclusion of the banks data monster! Great engineering and data analysis
Hey Always look forward to your tutorials and real world testing. I see you use Banks products
The Ram I think is doing very well. Let’s see what changes. Excellent tutorial
Any idea when part 2 will be released? What you’re doing is greatly appreciated.
For reference, I tracked DEF usage on a 2022 Ram with the identical engine, I did a 10k mile trip towing a trailer, DEF worked out to 2.4% of fuel burned.
Good info.
Great video...be interested in seeing if there is a difference after the recall...BTW what GPS app are you using?
I would recommend everyone ignore the recall
Except, CARB states will require this recall for registration renewal. Although, the EPA will allow up to three years to take care of 85% of all these truck recalls.
Were did you guys get the fender flairs for your truck they look really good
Finally you guys went the best, banks!
My truck is on the hit list. I'm not doing the recall until I know more about it. So... looking forward to the next video. In the meantime, I wonder if anyone has done an emissions test before and after. I can certainly imagine a case where the fix causes more emissions on the test and possibly fail to pass.
I have a 2019 Cummins ram 2500 I bought new. I went on line to check the recall and it had been done a year ago when they replaced my CP-4 fuel pump. I think they knew this was coming for a long time.
With diesel you need to do the 30 second refill a number of times. The diesel foams and turns off the nozzle. So it takes more times to get the tank "full". Sure are going light on towing.
My prediction will be more DEF use and more regen over time as the DPF gets more soot from the EGR in "normal" operating mode. That would result in very little power change but some extra fuel and DEF use. Once the DPF needs more regen then fuel economy will drop some. Long term there will be the EGR cooler blockage and coking of the intake valves.
Agreed
Agreed
The few test out the show zero power and fuel economy change. None that I've seen have tested def usage. TFL will be the bottom line. I'm behind the blue curtain in Kommiefornia so the update will be mandatory. My 2018 Limited Tungtsen Edition only has 57,000 miles on it so it's not leaving the fold anytime soon. Never say never though.
@@theantiqueactionfigurehave not seen a single dyno pull before and after
This is pretty much what happened to my 2015 jetta TDI, was getting like 45 -48MPG, after the recall it got 37 - 40MPG, they said it would be like 2MPG drop but it was actually like 6 -8MPG. Didn't make since anymore having it with the price of diesel to gas, looked into what it would be to delete it and after that got 50 - 53MPG.
We are waiting for the after recall to see if or when we'll have it done on our Cummins. Any update?
Had the 67A recall done last week. I have no idea what the PCM update involves but I can tell the difference in unloaded performance. The truck has regened twice in 150 miles of mixed highway and city. Also, the truck feels like it’s not running as free as it used to, especially at lower RPM’s and top gear acceleration. So far it looks like I’ve lost about 2 mpg’s or so DEF usage still to be determined but I would imagine that it will increase. Not too terrible but still a bummer. Had to do the recall for CA registration.
Hope you can escape CA for the USA
Definitely need dyno numbers pre/post.
Love the content . Love the real road testing. And
I’m Lovin’ it….don’t know why I’m hungry for McDonald’s 😂
Nice!!
Mine already uses twice as much def as my power stroke did, so let’s hope that don’t get worse, I’m gonna be one of the the last ones to get mine done, that’s for sure😂
Are you guys also able to do before and after dyno tests? I noticed a massive change in that on my wife's 2015 vw golf trip after the recall.
You guys are awesome as always, and excellent episode!!!😁
Any new updates on part 2 after the recall guys?
I own a 2014 VW Touareg TDI and the diesel “fix” primarily affected cold start smoothness and the amount of DEF it uses. MPG’s may have dropped by 1-2 mpg, but that could as much be related to typical aging and I feel no real power difference (using my butt dyno). I’m guessing the Cummins fix will be similar.
The fix ruined my 2015. Lost over 1 second 0-60, reduced mpg and the transmission tuning was unsafe and undriveable. Then taking off from a stop you could literally count 1 one-thousand 2 one-thousand 3 one-thousand and then the car would begin to pull away. Pre fix it would run a low 7 second 0-60 with brake boost and high 7s with no brake boost. The quickest it ever ran post fix was 8.6 seconds and if you didn't brake boost it was nearly 11 seconds. Tune and TCM flash are required for those tdi.
Based on Andre's description of the recall, the number of vehicles and the model years that will first be addressed (2013-2018) it sounds like it might be quite a long time before TFL's truck gets the work done.
Don't worry, Roman won't sell it before January 2027!🤣🤣🤣
If at all. It may already have the update.
I think the government should have to pay for any work regarding emissions out of warranty, they're the ones mandating that it be installed
According to a pdf from the California dept of justice the recall is for 13-19 trucks. According to the document cummins will fix the trucks (sotware update) and provide an extended emission warranty. 10 year or 120k miles from initial purchase or 4 year 48k which ever is greater. On 13-18 the warranty will cover def and scr system. 19 covers the same but adds EGR. There is nothing listed for 2020 to current so either their not eecalling those or there is a seperate recall coming. Appreciate the video but it might be for nothing. Do a search for consent decree 1/10/2024 and look for the California dept of justice. It a large doc but explains everything pretty well.
Does this extended warranty cover trucks registered outside CA? The def/scr system should include the dpf as well.
According to what I've seen the warranty will be for every truck that has the recall performed no matter where the truck resides. In the list of parts covered I did not see anything about the DPF
Exactly! The TFL truck isn't even getting the "update".
Hahahaha no judgement Nathan, I’ve done the whole 3,2,1 go thing a few times in my life 😂
Wow this is a fantastic baseline measurement.
A dyno session would have answered all these items with accuracy
When are we going to see the sequel to this video with the post update results on the truck?
What front bumper and winch system do you have installed on the truck? Thanks
I think the best outcome for this situation is for them to increase the DEF usage. This won’t affect the power or fuel economy, and it will be the least noticeable change to meet the ridiculous emissions standards. As a truck driver the DEF usage was increased a few years ago, and I’ve had a truck with a 2020 Cummins X15, and currently a 2024 DD15 and both consume DEF at a rate of between 150 mpg-200 mpg. Even though they use a ton of DEF the fuel mileage is better, the power is better, there are fewer regens, and the engine is not suffocated as much with EGR as compared to trucks between 2007-2017. The emissions standards have always been slightly more stringent with commercial vehicles than with private use vehicles, but what the commercial trucks have now and what they’re going to get in the future will eventually be added to personal diesel trucks. It’s absurd that California is allowed to have the power to set emissions regulations throughout the entire country.
Thanks for doing this
3 years doesn't matter as it's already taken care of. The issue was discovered in 2019. They immediately sent recall VB6 for the 2019 trucks. The 2020+ trucks already have the updated software, and that includes the power increase in 2021. 2013-2018 trucks are now receiving the recall in the mail.
I have a 2022 and was notified of the recall.
I'll wait for part two.
You might have to wait until January 2027.
Great test. Hope the recall doesn’t hurt performance.
We know it’s going to
How is the testing coming long? I just did the recall on Friday since I live in California and was required to do it prior to renewing the registration. I'd be curious as to what exactly the ECM re-calibration does. According to the dealer service tech I talked to on Friday they said the truck mostly will just use a bit more DEF fluid and that there shouldn't be a reduction in power however I don't know if what they are saying is entirely true which is why I am waiting for your guys' testing on this.
Also, the time it took to get this done at the dealer was pretty fast, took less than an hour to complete.
@21:00 - what GPS program is that? I really like the screen layout.
Edit - never mind. It's called "Altimeter GPS+ (Speedometer)".
I did hear from a buddy said his truck used a little more def but not a big amount but everything else was the same .
Make sure all of your tests are conducted the same way before and after the recall. There are 13 different modes based off of scr outlet temp, ect, and many others. Meaning if you let the truck idle, shut it off, drive differently the scr temp won’t let the truck go to the certain map that it might have been in the previous test. All of these modes have different SOI timing which could increase or decrease hp output and directly affect mpg, def usage etc.
Including the acceleration tests and idling in the MPG loop was gENiuS!
I'd like my 3rd taillight recalled. Did the replacement myself and still leaking will try again.. Very much like my 2014 2500 diesel, 70,000 miles of mostly all pulling fifth wheel 13,000 lbs "empty" toy hauler..
Super tough to make my Cummins use more DEF, since my 2018 Cummins had no DEF system period.
Can't wait for the results of the post-recall test! At the beginning of the video, I was yelling "DEF consumption please", but, it looks like the Banks Telemetry system records that as well. This "before-after" test should give a good "real world" result. This should be an easy recall, because there are no parts involved. They just re-flash the ECU, and can probably do it while you wait.
If you did the CP3 recall they did an ECU reflash and the results after the recall killed my MPG and my DEF consumption is through the roof. Hard to tell if I lost any other drivability issues as I didn't think the reflash would make such a drastic difference to my MPG and DEF...I was getting almost 18 MPG (Its a 2019 3500 SRW and I run 37s, Carli "leveling" kit, I have an FWC camper on it all the time and always have the truck loaded with offroad and recovery gear)...not I get 13 ish MPG. I have not changed my driving habits or style in any way.
So...If that recall was done on your test truck, Ram may have already put the lower MPG/Higher DEF tune in it. I know Ram knew about this potential EPA fine and I think they started adding the anticipated changes into ECU flashes. It would be nice to compare a truck that has had NO recalls done (that required an ECU reflash) to a post EPA recall (whatever they are calling that recall/reflash).
Have you posted the after recall video yet?
Have guy tried to see if Rams vin check tow numbers site works, and if they low you rating further?
Does the ecm get locked after the update? ie no more tuning
Two weeks ago on my screen it said there was an update available. I hit "update" and went into the store for a few mins and when I got back it said you can't move the vehicle until the update is done. That took one hour.
So if the recall isnt available, why did you do the testing now? What if its warmer / colder after or before the recall is done.
Just wondering why you don’t pick your 0 to 60s out of your quarter mile times? Is there a reason for a dedicated run?
You should be testing a 2013 through 2018 model year Truck! Those are the years that are presently affected with recall 67A That have been sent out.
Why would you take it for this recall??? No one is saying you have to do it.
Because people are idiots
Hey guys. It would be interesting to see a dyno comparison for this. Real numbers don't lie.
Thanks for the doing this, we all know the manufacturer will be not forthright with the performance downgrade numbers after the recall.
So where is the final test!!?? Will there be one?
Good test. And good news for the owners on the '22, but likely not what you want to hear, but your '22 is not eligible for the recall. The EPA said the recall is not coming to the 22 because it already meets the emission requirements.
Thanks guys…
Excellent presentation. Thank you. You know that it will not end with positive results for the owners. As with the Ford overstating the 7.3 horsepower, the manufactures just want to get your money and then do damage control after the fact if needed. With the Tesla Cybertruck, many of the promised features are "disabled" and not "completed" yet. Tesla actually wants you to buy a "unfinished" truck and just wait around for the features to be finished. Tesla has been doing this more often lately. Crazy to see missing promises for the Model S just now finally being available to customers after years of waiting. Just seems to be standard operating procedures now.
Or like computer games then they give you a patch for the mistakes in the game that a simple play would find!
Interesting bout same as my 6.6 gas 2500 chev custom. Towing 14.5 tho lbs.loaded trailor.
You should download the current map off the truck so when you take it in for a recall you can see the difference
There ever going to be a part 2?
It’s starting boys
When is part 2 coming out?
Is part 2 ever coming?
hey when are you going to post your findings?
The truck isn't being recalled. It doesn't apply to the '22.
Did you release the AFTER recall video and your conclusions?
You guys should do a Dino test Before & After 2.
Dinos are extinct.
I think it would have been a better test if you did it closer to the time the recall work is done. Who knows how many miles you’ll put on the truck and what will change about the truck before they do the recall work. Or, it might be the middle of summer and weather could be much hotter. Just my opinion.
Local dealerships are booked out for a week to perform recall.