@@HarryTwatter no, they have been denying people like mad. No knock sensor update= deny No receipts for oil changes = deny Salvage title= deny No current registration and insurance= deny Cold Air intake = deny
When our 2.0 blew, we had to many different dealers to find one that would fix it. They are all told not to mention recall, then if the owner knows, deny the replacement for “extreme negligence”. So sad to go through that, but replaced in the end
Good grief. Deviousness and obfuscation. Just goes to show the company is now trying to stop financial losses through needing to replace so many damn engines.
@@MattExzy Strange, my mom had the exact opposite experience. Our local Hyundai dealership took the car in no questions asked, and gave her a loaner the entire duration of the 4 (!!!) months it took to get a new engine.
Thats really sad you had to go through that my Hyundai dealership will gladly replace them and Hyundai never questions anything on the NU 2.0 in the Tucson. As long as it has had OK oil changes. We make so much money replacing them we are always willing to do it
I'm a Hyundai tech. Usually what we see is the #2 or #3 rod bearing essentially eating itself. Hyundai even has a machine specifically for testing for this issue without any major engine disassembly. Also, if you want to have some fun pull the exhaust CVVT sprocket off the cam and see if that little pin is wearing a bigger hole in it. That's another common failure point on these motors.
So when Hyundai DOES replace these under warranty - is it just the same flawed engine going in? Was there any design mod made to improve the issue, or is the idea that a new engine will get you another 80-100k miles before it fails again?
The first generation Theta 2.0L 4-banger was a paragon of smooth and reliable power: I still love my '11 i30/"Elantra Touring", though I'd like to fit a 6-speed manual to it. I very quickly learned, when it comes to Theta II: AVOID!
Wow, that was a WILD impact mark he showed at the end! That thing must have TRAVELED! I wonder if some other person has a small 'oval' hole in a window on their car and this pristine wrist pin hanging out on their passenger's side floorboard or something. If it was in a drive-thru when this happened, anyway. Or something like that but on the windshield if it happened on the highway.
My next door neighbor is an engine warranty engineer directly employed by Ford, but he regularly talks to his counterparts. He says these are what they call 'in cylinder episodes'. Not bearings, not oiling. It appears the pistons are not quite up to the task. They crack, take out the cylinder head, spark plug and valves, the cylinder overheats and cooks itself and the rod and the whole assembly comes apart. Pistons 2 and 3 mainly. When accountants get hold of a car design and shave pennies off the manufacturing cost. It was ever thus.
With those caked up rings on a direct injection, I could believe there is LSPI happening and there is not enough meat in pistons to endure that extra pressure, and they slowly crack apart.
LSPI - Low-Speed Pre-Ignition (for those wondering and too lazy to google). What I don’t understand is how engine oil can help? The Wikipedia article on LSPI seems to make a link to this but lacks details as to why.
@@jeremyloveslinux if I had to guess, the water weight oil that is getting past the thin low tension rings is heating up enough to vaporize and detonate in the absence of fuel vapor to cool the intake charge/compression stroke on DI engines. Diesels run heavier oil and thicker rings and pistons to deal with the high compression, so they would have less of an issue than tiny gas engines worked beyond their reasonable limits.
It was in the CNC programming. The guy who wrote the CNC program to machine the engine blocks, forgot to put in a rinse command after one of the machining points. Since the machined material wasn’t rinsed out, it got pumped into the rod bearing. It’s not a design or material flaw, it’s human error.
"Why number 3"... might be the clue to the whole shebang there, and I'm noticing that it's the first throw on the drive side of the crankshaft from the thrust bearing. It would be the first to suffer from flexing or harmonics if something like converter ballooning or a missed converter stab depth was happening. Basically you push on the back of the crankshaft and the #3 journal is the least supported mechanical member between that force and it's limiter, the thrust bearing. Pause at 30:50, look at the left edges of those rear two main bearings, they're more polished than the rest. If this is the problem that may be why Hyundai/Kia is having such a hard time with it... the tolerances closing up from crank flex would only happen with the engine running and providing torque to the transmission. Take it out and open it up, and barring wear the bearings clearances would be just as intended. Give it a hard rip, crank gets squeezed from the back, #3 rod journal flexes a little teeny bit, bearing clearance hits near zero for a small portion, and now it's compromised and a ticking time bomb waiting to wear the rest of the way and spin.
Interesting. If you got to figure this out,then pretty sure Hyundai / Kia knew it already and know that they can't do anything about it as it is a design issue. The thing is, they still continued to sell this engines knowing too well it is just waiting to happen. Heads rolled probably at the engineering department and the ones left were just juniors who inherited the problem.
I wonder if the manual trans cars (there were some) have blowup issues? And note many countries still favor the manual transmission (this being a world engine).
Great theory, but in this case I think you are not right. If the bearing failed before the piston there would be glitter all over the engine and all other surfaces would show bearing material being pushed through in the oil. The rod would show heat damage and would have been broken. In this case it is obvious that the rod bearing was doing fine until the wrist pin got stuck between the block and rod, bending the rod out of shape. Once that happened the bearings had no chance but the driver clearly stopped more or less immediately after the piston failed and engine power and noise levels made them aware of it. I am not saying that your theory isn't a failure mode that these engines suffer from, but I think it is more likely that bad knock control that somehow effects cylinder 3 more (resonance/vibrations in the engine casing or bad location of the knock sensor(s) makes cyl3 less protected by the knock protection system and ignition retard is done per cylinder, making cylinder 3 the one to often fail first. Whether it's the piston cracking or rod bearing giving up first in my theory is not really relevant, both cases are catastrophical. The root cause of knock is probably the bad oil scrape ring design causing excessive oil in the combustion chambers.
At my former job we had two different Kia Sorento's that had bad engines, the first one had 140ish thousand miles, but since it was used for commercial service they refused to cover the engine replacement, second one had 110ish thousand miles and was running rough, they determined the bearing tolerance was beyond spec and swapped it under warranty. The service tech said they were replacing about 40 engines a month and that was about half the number of cars coming in with dead engines. Not a vehicle you want to own past the warranty period.
It's slowed down some. I'm currently averaging about 1 every week or 2. Thankfully they're actually really easy to pull, but you still get screwed on the warranty times.
That recall is just a convenient way for them to deny a future motor replacement claim. Basically if you don’t have that recall done then your engine won’t have an extended warranty on the engine. Most people are not aware of that small yet crucial detail.
True, but the recall means the registered owner received in the mail a letter from NHTSA with the label IMPORTANT SAFETY RECALL. This does raise the question however, why doesn't the engine already attempt to save itself from knock, without the software update? People ignore flashing check-engine lights nowadays despite being told "stop engine now" when that happens. Engines have to be designed for a driver who is a complete moron. It appears these engines may have missed that mark lol.
@@jimbo5728Today's engines show the check engine way too sensitive! Also when it goes on off. Just show the problem on that 10 inch screen you have on that car. Not the "contact service", "contact service, knock sensor sensing blabla, engine damage imminent" is the right way!
I bought a 2015 Sonata 2.0T as a leftover in early 2016. I put 100K on it in 5 years. But I also maintain my vehicles much differently than anyone else. Just like every new vehicle I purchased, it got its first oil change at 1000 and second at 3500 miles with 5W30 synthetic. From there on it was zero w40 every 5K. was totaled by my insurance company at 100K for floor pan damage and losing at most half a cup of oil between 5K services. If I could post the picture of the inside of the engine, I would. I took a picture of the top end when they were replacing the valve cover gasket at 80K. It was immaculate. Just like you said Eric. I know people who had multiple engine replacements before 100k, and I know others who are well over 200, even 300k, on their original engines.
I have a 2011 Sonata 2.0 turbo and maintain it similar to your specs. The motor lunched itself at 185,000 KM (115.000 miles or so) The dealer replaced it under a special warranty extension and I've put another 100,000 KMs on the replacement. Hoping to get a few more years out of it. Edit: dealer was easy to deal with and I got a free rental for the repair time. Surrey BC Canada.
What i enjoy about this channel - aside from Eric's humor - is how each manufacturer engineers their motors. For example, the US majors vs the Germans, Japanese or Koreans. I'd love to see somebody donate an Indycar or F1 engine. That would be a trip.
Motorcycle engine teardowns would be cool to see as well. The two i've seen personally were from a leaky fuel injector diluting the oil and seizing the crank bearings, and another had an oil pickup completely clogged with clutch material that also seized the crank bearings. Both were inline four sportbike engines.
2016 Kia Sorento 2.0 L turbo. 55kmiles. All oil changes done at dealer. I checked the oil level every 2 weeks. 2 years ago, oil level fell from full to dry dipstick between checks. No oil on driveway nor garage floor. Took to dealer and got the stink eye from them. Got another brand of vehicle.
And everyone that knows nothing about cars keep telling us they are just as good as Toyota and Honda... We know better, Kia and Hyundai are by far the worst!
@@andrewhannam.they were solid until Theta series engines, and CVT transmissions. I’ve got an’08 that got 260k+ miles. my ‘14 uses a quart of oil every 10-14 days, and the trans lurches hard when re-accelerating. 162k. Not buying another late model.
After that piston imploded, the wrist pin saw an opportunity and made a break for it. That inspection port is actually an ejection port and that wrist pin came out of there like a .50BMG casing from an M2 Browning.
My wife's 18 Kia Soul 2.0L had a bearing failure at 85 miles past 70k. It presented as low oil pressure and a misfire but no check engine light. Russ Darrow Kia of Waukesha diagnosed it as a bad exhaust cam phaser, I later found out they based their diagnosis purely on having a cam correlation code and readings from the cam position. After they did the work and took it for a test drive it still had "drivability issues." They then did a software test that showed the bearings were bad but they still wanted to charge me for the top end work they had done, on engine that was now condemned. After a month of arguing with the service department I literally had to make a scene in the dealer's lobby to get them to set things right. I found out from my dad who knows a local Kia rep that this particular dealership is really bad about warranty claims. Thanks for this tear down. I'm sure it will come in handy when I am out of warranty.
Oh they also tried to argue after the fact that my timing chain was loose because it had stretched. No you idiots, it's loose because there isn't enough oil pressure to tension it! God those service advisors pissed me off.
Good explanation for the what and why regarding the KSDS update which enables the extended engine warranty eligibility. No matter how many times I've explained it, there's always someone who says "I got the update, why did my engine break?" Because the update was never meant to "fix" anything but rather decrease the likelihood that you'll be able to drive it until the wrist pins are the only survivors. Still see a few seized, but it became far less common after the update.
We blew two high pressure fuel pumps before the engine gave up the ghost. It took Kia only 6 days to get it replaced which is 5 months faster than when it ate a valve and turbo.
Thanks for the Saturday night carnage, I always appreciate that. When #3 blew, it didn't run for long---if it did, you'd see torn-up bearings and blued rod caps and mains. We can't put this one on owner negligence, this has pure factory defect written all over it
The problem is detonation. That’s why the knock sensor is on cylinder #3. Because the engine is designed to run at its limit so it has to run with a certain timing advance, and the two inboard cylinders get the most heat which can increase detonation. So I would guaranty cylinders 2-3 get the most heat and if the knock sensor is bad or not functioning properly the piston cracks from detonation and that causes it to seize in the cylinder and that destroys the bearing and so on. Don the mechanic!
If yours is a 1.8 NU its not a GDI engine they are pretty decent little motors keep up on oil changes every 3,750-4,000 miles keeping receipts won’t help since its not under the recalls
HUH, was yours built in the USA? I suspect this might be a contributing factor. Every complaint about Hyundai/Kia seems to be from US customers. In Australia i dont seem to see or hear of any problems like this, but ours are not US built,
My family's '16 Sante Fe Sport went pop at about 65k during a vacation road trip. I have an interesting tidbit of information that might help inform the theorycrafting: My dad had his foot down to pass someone on the highway - the third time that trip - at the moment it started making horrifying noises. Unlike a lot of people who own these, he immediately pulled off and checked fluids and everyhing (oil level fine). When he saw no obvious problems, he went another mile, then pulled off and called a tow when the terrible noises persisted. They honored the warranty. So I personally think that's a major reason why some engines last while others don't: Whether or not the owner is pushing them too hard. inb4 Yes, I know, a correctly designed engine should not delete a bearing just because you pushed the tach past 3500. Bonus fun fact for reading this far: My stepmom blamed my dad for blowing it up.
What a shame. My little 2.0 in the 2000 elantra is probably still running for someone. I changed the timing belt twice and sold it for 100 bucks at 200k miles. I loved that little engine. I saw it on the road about a year after I sold it.
My buddy who worked at a Hyundai dealership years back said he built towers behind the shop with all the blown theta engines had had accumulated over a few months
Wright built 18 cyl, 3350 cubic inch radial engines, used in b-29s, Lockheed constellations, etc. Later versions had 3 power recovery turbines, exhaust driven, that returned power to the crank, rather than driving a compressor (as a turbocharger does) They had some reliability issues, so PRT came to mean "parts recovery turbine" among mechanics, as cylinder debris could be found jammed in them after failure. I think they made their own inspection ports, too. Mechanic humor will probably never change. Doesn't need to, either!
What I have seen about the Kia engine replacement program applies to 2010-2015 model years, and is because of improper machining and cleaning of the crankshafts during manufacturing. That engine is a 2018, and rod bearings don't normally grenade a piston. I have also heard of GDI detonation when not us API SP grade oil. That piston looks suspiciously like that is what happened, and would be just cause to dny warranty.
Hyundai replaced my 2.4 when it failed at 190,000 km. It had all the updates and had no issues until around 185,000 km it went in limp mode. It was checked and passed until the final fail where limp mode turned into tow truck. I'm happy with the new engine. It's a lot better on fuel than the old one.
Folks a wise advice on modern cars specifically the ones equipped with GDI engines. Use always API SP grade engine oil and do oil analysis every 8.5 K Miles to detect any anomalies. Modern engines have very tight tolerances and the use of proper oil is crucial
We have this engine in my late wifes 2019 Kia Soul which she purchased new. It has 46K miles and I have avoided bringing it to the dealer due to all the horror stories Ive read about how the 'reflash' causes the engine to run bad, stall, etc and people have to have their vehicles towed back to the dealer. I drive the car very gently and try to never exceed 2500-2700 RPM. It gets 30+ MPG. I had been changing the oil and filter every 6000 miles (owner manual spec is 7500) but the last one was at 5000 miles which I will maintain doing.
Well I went and bought myself an LH2 version Northstar engine a couple weeks ago and got it all torn down, and I've gotta say, for only costing me $480. dollars grand total and "supposedly" having 157k miles, it's really nice looking inside. And it came with EVERYTHING on it and with it, computer, under hood wiring harness, manifolds, motor mounts, all the accessories, throttle body, flexplate and torque tube coupler, starter,,, everything. It was definitely a score.... Just gotta get her built up for some BOOST now!!!
My buddy has a Hyundai sedan with a turbo engine. His wife normally drives it short trips 1-3 times a week. Their teenage son drove it through the desert/mountainous area here outside of Phoenix and blew the engine! Now at dealership awaiting approved engine swap.
My guess is the machining of the oil galleries in the crankshaft and/or block has some problems with sizing, obstructions, and/or cleaning. Something is reducing the oil volume/pressure to the rod bearing in #3.
I seriously just went through this woth my 2012 sonata. P1326 is the death code. Bearing clearance. Better keep that oul changed because is not, they WILL NOT cover the engine replacement. I got lucky even though i bought mine 2nd hand. Had every oil chamged logged and got a new motor.
Keep the oil changed every 3,500 miles with a factory filter sounds dumb but I swear it works we have 5 of the 11-13 cars in my family the ones using aftermarket filters have all had engines before 150k the 2 that use factory filters and Valvoline/Mobil 1 full synthetic both have over 200k on original motors and dont even use oil. Did find the Valvoline Restore and Protect helped oil consumption greatly on one of the replacement motors that Hyundai didn’t cover being a rebuilt title.
@@Austin-cg7be i read online a few places to use only factory oil filters on my '07 santa fe 2.7. after 500 miles on an oil change with a quality aftermarket filter developed valve noise, not bad but concerning, swapped in a hyundai filter and slowly went away!
@@ScottUnangst yep !! I almost blew up my Genesis Coupe using an aftermarket QUALITY filter used Mobil 1 and K&N aftermarket and always thought it was going to let go put a factory one on and it quieted right down
in my opinion: If you are the original purchaser receiving an official notice of recall from the manufacturer before the engine explodes, it establishes evident state whereas accusation to not changing oil has definite legal problems because some oils do not need changing until they reach 1 year or 20K on odometer interval. If the engine explodes, there's no way such accusation could stand relying on "hear say" in the form of post hoc fallacy. "Character attacks" loose to fact & official notices/documents issued by the manufacturer. If denying a warranty claim, lack of service history would be meaningless to the official acknowledgement to the original owner. 2nd had buyers definitely need a service history being they have a limited warranty option that would be viewed as an as-is contract in court going towards a breach of contract requiring performance facts on both sides of the case. If you show a certificate/diploma from an automotive tech school you attended, proof of oil change isn't so important when you do all of your maintenance work being more qualified than the average oil change place service attendant. It negates a dealership post hoc character attack point blank. Hear say is not admissible as evidence unless it corroborates a form of evidence & is not evidence by itself. I had challenged a Ford dealer once to deny my warranty claim based on me servicing my own vehicle & there was the Chevy dealer too. One of these days a stupid dealer will try me & loose his ass in court.
The Elantra uses the port injected version of that engine which is not included in the warranty extension. So instead of what you see here, the main thing they do (and usually a bit past 100k miles) is have the pin between the exhaust camshaft and its phaser shear off. That results in a timing code (adjustments become impossible) and is very much repairable if not ignored too long.
Sadly, a neighbor of mine had her car go up in flames in the property drive way. I had to call 911 to "increase their response time". When it became too dangerous, I encouraged her to get away from it because the fumes were toxic. We both had to watch her KIA go up in flames. Fire Department showed up about 5 minutes too late. The problem I have with these engines is that it is a known fact of a defect. There are dealers with back orders for replacement engines. The people most affected are not rich people. These are folks living check to check relying on a vehicle that takes them everywhere.
Good. so she followed Hyundai's official instruction which is do not park your car inside a garage, only park outside. the most ridiculous instruction ever.
I noticed you left the pump when rotating the engine. At the end I thought you were going to smash it off with a hammer and then I was disappointed when I saw the impact. In the end you didn't let me down 😅 Buddy said he read they didn't properly chamfer the crank oil passage and it eats the bearing.
A buddy of mine works for Hyundai and his girlfriend is on her second engine. He said it's a known defect but they really don't have a permanent fix; the corporate office is just hoping their next design is reliable.
I knew a guy that actually bought a used water pump at a junk yard for $5 then bought a new gasket for $5 it was for a sbc at the time you could by a new water pump and gasket for $15.
Thankfully it's only the 2.0 that has the issue. My 1.6 isn't part of this crowd. It's 4.5 years old 62k miles on it and purring happily. The only thing giving me a bit of trouble is the other part of the engine....... Transmission. Slight hesitation and delays in switching gears. But outside of that the rest is just fine.
My son's 2017 Sonata is on its 3rd 2.0t. The first developed a knock and the dealer was quick to replace it under the lawsuit. The second engine began misfiring at about 4500 miles so I replaced the plugs. The misfire seemed to go away but I scheduled a trip to the dealer anyway and they said the car was good to drive until then. I decided not to drive it at all until the appointment. Well, I went on a test drive and didn't make it 5 miles before one of those holes opened up on the front of the block in cylinder 4. The dealer completely tore down the engine to satisfy Hyundai and got us another free engine. They also gave us a rental while we waited 3 months. The final bill, which we didn't have to pay, was over $10,000. That's more than the value of the car right now. The dealer = 10/10. Hyundai = 1/10.
That's unfortunate, no coverage for a known issue, b/c it had the factory tune. Seems crazy that they can deny coverage, when the alledged fix won't save the engine.
We had a Ford Exploder which has the talent of making the spark plug in cylinder #3 go short from the electrode to the shell within 500 miles. I kept a box of plugs on hand to change plug #3 whenever I got a misfire code.
My wife has a Tucson and we got the engine re-flash done. Our local dealer seems pretty straight - the guy told me if the engine fails after this, they just replace it under warranty, no questions asked. Then he pointed at the shop and said 'That's what half those guys are doing right now.' Too bad it's such a bad design, as it's otherwise a good vehicle.
I'm interested in your comment about regular oil changes with so much carbonised oil in that engine. I would say that either A) the car was running in extreme conditions and should have had oil changes every 3000 miles, or B) they used the cheapest oil they could find, or C) they lied to try and pass the warranty?
I would love to buy some of the REALLY mangled bits but postage to Oz just a bit steep right now. Maybe later this year. Maybe high resolution photos of REALLY mangled parts might sell? I would buy like half a dozen, plus a REALLY mangled part and make a display “modern art.” The technicians here might poo poo that idea but they are too used to engines-some of the carnage, “the malice in the combustion palace” is REALLY colossal! I don’t know why water pumps are so denigrated-often they are in better shape than many other parts-but the, errrr, disposal of them is pretty comic-also a potential great photo/bit of video.
If they say its a machining clean out problem, I would guess maybe it's the oil passage between the crank bearing and the rod bearing, restricting oil flow to the number 3 rod bearing.
We have 2 hyundai i30 and i40 turbo diesels.. super reliable and great performance.keep changing that oil every 3 months with full synthetic regardless.
2006 Elantra with the 2.0L Beta II engine. Absolutely bulletproof since Day 1 on 12/23/2005. Zero oil leaks, and uses no oil between 3K oil changed with 5w30 Mobil 1. Only failure since purchase was the TPM (throttle position module) and its cost was $25 I replaced in 20 minutes. Only 142K miles. The Beta II's original design was done by Mitsubishi, but then tweaked by Hyundai. Ask any Hyundai tech, the old Beta II is an excellent engine good for at least 200K.
Apparently they went down-hill after that. My brother-in-law had a 2013 Elantra, which he finally got rid of after replacing the engine *twice* on that thing. Neither engine had over 100k on it. But he got tired of taking it to the dearlership for a new engine every three - four years and so he told them to keep it after the second blown engine. He's now driving a Honda Fit and hasn't had any problems with it.
Oh, Eric. I love your moments of goofiness. The chain guides bit was one of the best, so far. On the flip side, I’ve also learned quite a bit about engines.
Can't go wrong with a new Toyota! I just purchased a 24' Toyota Camry, great cars. I hope to drive it for the rest of my life. I wanted to get the last naturally aspirated Camry, did not want to worry about the hybrid system 18 years down the road.
@@donniev8181I get what your point is here and Toyota indeed has a great rep for reliability but the reality is their NEW TTV6 in the tundra is having issues. For context I’m the kinda guy who recommends buying a Toyota if you don’t know what you want but you want it to be reliable. Sometimes new designs have engineering OR manufacturing issues.
My take on the reflash is Hyundai trying to void warranties. My girlfriend made the mistake of buy a 2018 Santa fe, while drive al of a sudden the engine wouldn't go over 1600rpm. We were informed by the stealership that the warranty was voided because it didn't get the update mandated by a "quiet recall". After a call to Transport Canada, and a news channel suddenly they noticed that they had never notified her. To that point the stealership did ALL the maintenance. She was without her car for 4 weeks before they did the right thing. Another time they refused to do a recall because the replacement part had been superseded, 5 weeks before they agreed that it was the same part, just a different part number.
A few months prior to being replaced after Thanksgiving 2018, my '12 was examined for issues shortly after receiving correspondence in the mail. Everything was "good", and the dipstick was replaced with one of a different color. My guess was that it would signify that it passed Hyundai's initial addressing of the engine failures. A few months after the engine was replaced under warranty, in the mail came another letter stating a new update to the PCM was available to address further issues. It was something about cold weather issues. What initially caused the trip to the dealer was a ticking sound (top of engine) upon the first morning start after sitting overnight.
My 2014 Kia Soul had the 2.0 motor, I bought it for my daughter unaware that engine is problematic… she was 18 and running active miles, enjoying the car until a month later the engine blew with 51,000 miles on it. After a month of back and forth with dealership and angry threat of litigation, Kia replaced with a new engine under the recall. I have to give negative feedback to Kia for that whole process… it took a month AFTER the first month before Kia would get the car into the shop for replacement. Next up, a month after getting the car back the panoramic roof track failed. That is a bodyshop repair that also took forever to get done.
Great video as usual. As a used car mechanic, I have been seeing Hyundai's with new engines. This video gives us a glimpse into the problem. But I am still wondering what is causing the #3 cylinder to fail as Eric has pointed out. Ford, Hyundai, and now Toyota are all now having, or should have been have engines problems of one sort or another. Thanks again Eric
I've always thought that motors should have negative crankcase ventilation to accompany the PCV system... little did I know: Kia already thought of that.
They can change the logos and make them as pretty as they want but at the end of the day, its still a PoS Kia. I gotta say, their engines can stack rod bearings better than any other brand in their respective class.
We had a 2005 Tuscon with the V6. The engine seemed pretty good but we sold it before it had too many miles. I was semi impressed with it, however I've seen so many issues with so many Hyundai's in recent years, I'd never buy another one. But to be honest, that GM 3.0 Duramax video was astonishing. They need to rename it, the Junkamax. People are paying good money for those and once they find out what they have, they are going to be really angry!
Our 2017 Tuscon got the recall done, it was inspected, knock sensor computer programmed for the creep mode and additional 100k warrantee. It creeped once but they couldn't find anything wrong after being at the dealer for two weeks. It later turned out to be caused by a valve cover leak onto a sensor. It's actually a good running car, but we traded it on a 2025 RAV 4 SLE Premium after 125k. Why test fate?
This is not a new problem. I have been an auto repair tech for 27 years. In 1997 Dodge Dakota's with the antique 318 were the subject of a recall to flash the ECM because the EPA caught Dodge rolling these out with a different flash than they tested. 2 things became clear very quickly: 1; The recall flash was causing trucks to come in on the hook left and right with a hole burned in the #1 cylinder. 2; Don't flash someones truck with the recall file. I'm not saying I broke any laws or stole money for work I didn't do but I am saying I wrote down that I reflashed a PCM when I didn't. And we had a DRB3, the factory scan tool at the time, that still had a copy of the factory production ECM file and every truck that was in the scope, that I worked on, was checked and had this file installed. I want to change your belts and coolant hoses, I do not want to replace your engine. From personal knowledge I am aware of many other manufacturers having problems with otherwise reliable engines due to chasing for that last 0.10% MPG. Every time I see a Hybrid with cheap non low rolling resistance tires I just want to scream. So much dumb stuff is going on to turn a 33mpg car into a 34mpg car. And- almost 50 years ago a Datsun B210 got 50mpg.
My late sister had a Rondo with this engine. 80k miles, the #3 cylinder was trashed. Not to the point of having inspection ports in the block but it certainly had rod knock. Odd thing the mechanic showed me is that if you took the plug wire off that cylinder it got quieter. Dealer refused the warranty claim because she couldn’t prove that the oil was changed every 3000 miles BY THE DEALERSHIP. And finding a good used replacement engine at a price that made sense was impossible. Oh the wrecking yards had no shortage of vehicles that used that engine but they all had bad engines that Kia wouldn’t warranty. The Rondo, in beautiful condition other than the engine ended up making a one way trip to the junkyard. Almost every wrecking yard you find, if you find a nice looking Kia it probably has a bad engine and it’s probably one of these engines. Put this on the legendary engines list with other goodies, like the Chrysler 2.7 V6 or the Ford EcoSport 1 litre 3 cylinder… or even the Vega (remember those?)
@@Dieselfueledwork I had a friend that used 80W-90 gear lube. He was a “backyard mechanic” who worked for a cam / crank grinding shop in Detroit and he made some really bizarre low buck (VERY low buck!) modifications. Things that we called, uh, “creative alternative repair”.
Weird? If this the same engine I had in my 2018 Elantra non-turbo, something is wrong. I never had an issue. Bought the car brand new. Used Mobile 1 Synthetic since first oil change. Sold the car with 82,000 miles on it years later and never had one single issue. Changed my oil every 4500-5000 miles on time.
My in-laws bought a new one and it came with a 'lifetime power train warranty'. When it blew at 101k, the dealer that they bought it from said 'that's normal wear and tear'. The dummies bought another one.........
Ooof 🤦♂️ family friend of ours had a sonata which blew, warranty was denied and all...his younger brother then got a forte with the 4 cyl Nu engine...don't get it, maybe it is all they can afford or perhaps they like how they look..?
Hell guy, here in Japan I scrap cars that have covered 100,000 kilometres. That's 62,000 miles. When passenger cars are as cheap as they are here in Japan, equity is so low (US$1,000) and scrapping is FoC, you roll it into the scrapyard when the repair estimate exceeds replacement. One extra detail is that average annual distance driven is some 8,000 kilometres. Jack, the Japan Alps Brit
since you see a lot of failures on 3, i'm inclined to believe it's an engineering design problem somewhere. something in the way it rotates during operation that puts more force or vibration (balance) or whatever on #3, or maybe the way the oil flows while running that eventually oil starves or overheats that area..
We rented a Tuscon in Albuquerque a bit ago and while it didn't strand us and it admittedly was a comfortable vehicle, the drivetrain didn't feel well sorted. The transmission was constantly hunting up and down even on flat highway sections and it was looking for power it didn't have... But solid looking and very functional, just wouldn't keep it over 50k miles...
also.. kia , Hyundai and a lot of dealers do NOT USE HQ oil.. they use crap bulk oil in unmarked drums... ask your dealer shop to show you the container your new car oil comes from !!
It’s very interesting watching you tear this engine down from the top like a normal person. I recently tore one apart from the bottom up because it spun two bearings and had a knock. Good news is we had it programmed and are getting a new engine through warranty…. In four months
A friend threw a rod on his lift truck. Through the hole, he hose clamped a strip of sheet metal around the empty rod journal to prevent oil loss..maintain pressure. Shoved piston up to TDC...still runs it on 3 cylinders. It has been that way for a long time.
The owner did not maintain the car based on the oil that came out of the filter. I have the same 2 liter 4 engine in a 2017 Tucson 180K miles. It has never been past 5,000 RPM. It purrs like a kitten. At about 50K miles, it started to burn one quart of oil every 1,500 miles. Other than that, new tires, brakes, battery, and spark plugs. That is it. Great car. Do you have a history of the car from where the engine came?
Literally just sold my 16’ Tucson April past, glad that it gone, nothing but issues with it. Put on a positive the engine wasn’t knocking or ticking yet when I sold it. Had 71,000 miles on it when I sold it
I’m in Canada (Winnipeg). My 2019 Tucson didn’t blow up but went into limp mode. I had no idea what limp mode was or why it came to be. A stop in Regina got me out of that mode (By-passed the knock sensor). Told me to check in with my Winnipeg dealer ASAP. Did not charge me anything! Back at Winnipeg dealer I was stunned to find out I was getting a new engine under warranty after Approx 70000 Km of use. Even the rental was covered. One thing all maintenance including oil changes was done by them and I had kept all my invoices in the passenger door pocket. I guess Hyundai Canada has more integrity than US division but I have no beefs whatsoever with Hyundai
Wife's 2017 Tucson decided to start eating oil at 75,000 miles or so. I thought it was engine bearing recall, dealer said it was down to 1.5 QT of oil!!! Low pressure pump flaked at 88,000. We'll run it till it dies...our first and last Hyundai/Kia. To Hyundai's credit, the LP pump is a pretty easy swap, so good design to allow access without dropping the tank.
10 year powertrain warranty.
When marketing writes a check the engineers can't cash.
well you do get a new engine
@@HarryTwatter no, they have been denying people like mad.
No knock sensor update= deny
No receipts for oil changes = deny
Salvage title= deny
No current registration and insurance= deny
Cold Air intake = deny
@@HarryTwatter Unless you don't go in for some useless "recall".
And good luck with getting them to honor the warranty...
The 10-year warranty only applies to the original owner.
When our 2.0 blew, we had to many different dealers to find one that would fix it. They are all told not to mention recall, then if the owner knows, deny the replacement for “extreme negligence”. So sad to go through that, but replaced in the end
Great way to foster customer loyalty! 🤣🤣
Good grief. Deviousness and obfuscation. Just goes to show the company is now trying to stop financial losses through needing to replace so many damn engines.
@@MattExzy Strange, my mom had the exact opposite experience. Our local Hyundai dealership took the car in no questions asked, and gave her a loaner the entire duration of the 4 (!!!) months it took to get a new engine.
@@mattt198654321 took way too long to get the engine and now they are trying to deny claims. Both bad.
Thats really sad you had to go through that my Hyundai dealership will gladly replace them and Hyundai never questions anything on the NU 2.0 in the Tucson. As long as it has had OK oil changes. We make so much money replacing them we are always willing to do it
I'm a Hyundai tech. Usually what we see is the #2 or #3 rod bearing essentially eating itself. Hyundai even has a machine specifically for testing for this issue without any major engine disassembly. Also, if you want to have some fun pull the exhaust CVVT sprocket off the cam and see if that little pin is wearing a bigger hole in it. That's another common failure point on these motors.
Looked like #3 rod was worn thinner
Job Security. I work on Harleys for the same reason.
Piles of those pieces of junk here awaiting core pickup. Absolutely garbage.
So when Hyundai DOES replace these under warranty - is it just the same flawed engine going in? Was there any design mod made to improve the issue, or is the idea that a new engine will get you another 80-100k miles before it fails again?
The first generation Theta 2.0L 4-banger was a paragon of smooth and reliable power: I still love my '11 i30/"Elantra Touring", though I'd like to fit a 6-speed manual to it.
I very quickly learned, when it comes to Theta II: AVOID!
Legend has it... That wristpin is *still* trying to hitchhike it's way back to Korea!
yeah in north Korea. There could be a theory that KIA and Hyundai have engines made from North Korea.
errrr, im sure this was made in Alabama :)
It must miss it's mother dearly. . 🤥🤣
@@WilliamHollinger2019 Next time you have a thought... let it go.
Wow, that was a WILD impact mark he showed at the end! That thing must have TRAVELED! I wonder if some other person has a small 'oval' hole in a window on their car and this pristine wrist pin hanging out on their passenger's side floorboard or something. If it was in a drive-thru when this happened, anyway. Or something like that but on the windshield if it happened on the highway.
My next door neighbor is an engine warranty engineer directly employed by Ford, but he regularly talks to his counterparts. He says these are what they call 'in cylinder episodes'. Not bearings, not oiling. It appears the pistons are not quite up to the task. They crack, take out the cylinder head, spark plug and valves, the cylinder overheats and cooks itself and the rod and the whole assembly comes apart. Pistons 2 and 3 mainly. When accountants get hold of a car design and shave pennies off the manufacturing cost. It was ever thus.
With those caked up rings on a direct injection, I could believe there is LSPI happening and there is not enough meat in pistons to endure that extra pressure, and they slowly crack apart.
LSPI - Low-Speed Pre-Ignition (for those wondering and too lazy to google). What I don’t understand is how engine oil can help? The Wikipedia article on LSPI seems to make a link to this but lacks details as to why.
@@jeremyloveslinux if I had to guess, the water weight oil that is getting past the thin low tension rings is heating up enough to vaporize and detonate in the absence of fuel vapor to cool the intake charge/compression stroke on DI engines. Diesels run heavier oil and thicker rings and pistons to deal with the high compression, so they would have less of an issue than tiny gas engines worked beyond their reasonable limits.
It was in the CNC programming. The guy who wrote the CNC program to machine the engine blocks, forgot to put in a rinse command after one of the machining points. Since the machined material wasn’t rinsed out, it got pumped into the rod bearing. It’s not a design or material flaw, it’s human error.
@@paulnunya3429feels like that would take out an engine relatively rapidly, like within a few hundred miles
"Why number 3"... might be the clue to the whole shebang there, and I'm noticing that it's the first throw on the drive side of the crankshaft from the thrust bearing. It would be the first to suffer from flexing or harmonics if something like converter ballooning or a missed converter stab depth was happening. Basically you push on the back of the crankshaft and the #3 journal is the least supported mechanical member between that force and it's limiter, the thrust bearing. Pause at 30:50, look at the left edges of those rear two main bearings, they're more polished than the rest.
If this is the problem that may be why Hyundai/Kia is having such a hard time with it... the tolerances closing up from crank flex would only happen with the engine running and providing torque to the transmission. Take it out and open it up, and barring wear the bearings clearances would be just as intended. Give it a hard rip, crank gets squeezed from the back, #3 rod journal flexes a little teeny bit, bearing clearance hits near zero for a small portion, and now it's compromised and a ticking time bomb waiting to wear the rest of the way and spin.
That is a really good theory. I think you might be onto something here.
Interesting. If you got to figure this out,then pretty sure Hyundai / Kia knew it already and know that they can't do anything about it as it is a design issue. The thing is, they still continued to sell this engines knowing too well it is just waiting to happen. Heads rolled probably at the engineering department and the ones left were just juniors who inherited the problem.
@@chronicle_4agreed!
I wonder if the manual trans cars (there were some) have blowup issues? And note many countries still favor the manual transmission (this being a world engine).
Great theory, but in this case I think you are not right. If the bearing failed before the piston there would be glitter all over the engine and all other surfaces would show bearing material being pushed through in the oil. The rod would show heat damage and would have been broken. In this case it is obvious that the rod bearing was doing fine until the wrist pin got stuck between the block and rod, bending the rod out of shape. Once that happened the bearings had no chance but the driver clearly stopped more or less immediately after the piston failed and engine power and noise levels made them aware of it. I am not saying that your theory isn't a failure mode that these engines suffer from, but I think it is more likely that bad knock control that somehow effects cylinder 3 more (resonance/vibrations in the engine casing or bad location of the knock sensor(s) makes cyl3 less protected by the knock protection system and ignition retard is done per cylinder, making cylinder 3 the one to often fail first. Whether it's the piston cracking or rod bearing giving up first in my theory is not really relevant, both cases are catastrophical. The root cause of knock is probably the bad oil scrape ring design causing excessive oil in the combustion chambers.
At my former job we had two different Kia Sorento's that had bad engines, the first one had 140ish thousand miles, but since it was used for commercial service they refused to cover the engine replacement, second one had 110ish thousand miles and was running rough, they determined the bearing tolerance was beyond spec and swapped it under warranty. The service tech said they were replacing about 40 engines a month and that was about half the number of cars coming in with dead engines. Not a vehicle you want to own past the warranty period.
It's slowed down some. I'm currently averaging about 1 every week or 2. Thankfully they're actually really easy to pull, but you still get screwed on the warranty times.
strange it is US problem. europe made engines in hyundai cars are bulletproof compared to this. even 1 liter 3 cilinders hold up decent
@@dominikhejl5748Americans drives much more and I bet a ton of short trips just to go get slurpees...
@@kenkozawa9810 the guy said some engines blow up without correlation with mileage.
@@dominikhejl5748 ...or maybe different supply chains?
I had one of these do the same thing on the highway and deleted 2 pistons. Only 62k miles. Great engines!!
No-one gets it - these engines are so great that they actually can't contain their greatness and they explode. Now THAT'S great.
Love it 😂
Great at...
I'll bet you had the original oil in it. If you took it to the dealer it had the original oil in it.
That recall is just a convenient way for them to deny a future motor replacement claim. Basically if you don’t have that recall done then your engine won’t have an extended warranty on the engine. Most people are not aware of that small yet crucial detail.
True, but the recall means the registered owner received in the mail a letter from NHTSA with the label IMPORTANT SAFETY RECALL. This does raise the question however, why doesn't the engine already attempt to save itself from knock, without the software update? People ignore flashing check-engine lights nowadays despite being told "stop engine now" when that happens. Engines have to be designed for a driver who is a complete moron. It appears these engines may have missed that mark lol.
@@jimbo5728Today's engines show the check engine way too sensitive! Also when it goes on off. Just show the problem on that 10 inch screen you have on that car. Not the "contact service", "contact service, knock sensor sensing blabla, engine damage imminent" is the right way!
I bought a 2015 Sonata 2.0T as a leftover in early 2016. I put 100K on it in 5 years. But I also maintain my vehicles much differently than anyone else. Just like every new vehicle I purchased, it got its first oil change at 1000 and second at 3500 miles with 5W30 synthetic. From there on it was zero w40 every 5K. was totaled by my insurance company at 100K for floor pan damage and losing at most half a cup of oil between 5K services. If I could post the picture of the inside of the engine, I would. I took a picture of the top end when they were replacing the valve cover gasket at 80K. It was immaculate. Just like you said Eric. I know people who had multiple engine replacements before 100k, and I know others who are well over 200, even 300k, on their original engines.
I have a 2011 Sonata 2.0 turbo and maintain it similar to your specs. The motor lunched itself at 185,000 KM (115.000 miles or so) The dealer replaced it under a special warranty extension and I've put another 100,000 KMs on the replacement. Hoping to get a few more years out of it. Edit: dealer was easy to deal with and I got a free rental for the repair time. Surrey BC Canada.
Not saying this is the cause but isn't 5K oil change intervals long for a turbocharged engine?
What i enjoy about this channel - aside from Eric's humor - is how each manufacturer engineers their motors. For example, the US majors vs the Germans, Japanese or Koreans. I'd love to see somebody donate an Indycar or F1 engine. That would be a trip.
Omg a blown to hell and back race engine...we would worship the ground Eric walks on 😂
Motorcycle engine teardowns would be cool to see as well. The two i've seen personally were from a leaky fuel injector diluting the oil and seizing the crank bearings, and another had an oil pickup completely clogged with clutch material that also seized the crank bearings. Both were inline four sportbike engines.
2016 Kia Sorento 2.0 L turbo. 55kmiles. All oil changes done at dealer. I checked the oil level every 2 weeks. 2 years ago, oil level fell from full to dry dipstick between checks. No oil on driveway nor garage floor. Took to dealer and got the stink eye from them. Got another brand of vehicle.
What did you get?
That's the low tension rings. Especially bad on the turbo models. We've got a TSB for that now.
@@1337penguinman Apparently the new Volvos are having oil consumption problems because of the thin/low tension rings they're installing.
@@jnordne2 haven't heard the newer Volvos having consumption issues. Mid 2010's 5 cylinders definitely had a problem however.
Thank the EPA
So if the Kia boys don’t steal your car, and it doesn’t randomly burst into flames, your engine will implode. Haha
😂 Built In obsolescence
And everyone that knows nothing about cars keep telling us they are just as good as Toyota and Honda... We know better, Kia and Hyundai are by far the worst!
@@mondocjenson-dy8zdBuilt-in is hyphenated. Use Grammarly, or try school.
EXplode
@@andrewhannam.they were solid until Theta series engines, and CVT transmissions. I’ve got an’08 that got 260k+ miles. my ‘14 uses a quart of oil every 10-14 days, and the trans lurches hard when re-accelerating. 162k. Not buying another late model.
As a non-engine person I love it when you point out little details or trivia about specific parts. Learning stuff!
After that piston imploded, the wrist pin saw an opportunity and made a break for it. That inspection port is actually an ejection port and that wrist pin came out of there like a .50BMG casing from an M2 Browning.
*(**10:44**)* - Today's forecast: _"Cloudy with a chance of chain guides."_
Dude, it’s filmed inside. It was obviously workshop squirrels! 🐿️
@@seanys Squirrels?! You're nuts!
And piston nugget hail storm.
My wife's 18 Kia Soul 2.0L had a bearing failure at 85 miles past 70k. It presented as low oil pressure and a misfire but no check engine light. Russ Darrow Kia of Waukesha diagnosed it as a bad exhaust cam phaser, I later found out they based their diagnosis purely on having a cam correlation code and readings from the cam position. After they did the work and took it for a test drive it still had "drivability issues." They then did a software test that showed the bearings were bad but they still wanted to charge me for the top end work they had done, on engine that was now condemned. After a month of arguing with the service department I literally had to make a scene in the dealer's lobby to get them to set things right. I found out from my dad who knows a local Kia rep that this particular dealership is really bad about warranty claims. Thanks for this tear down. I'm sure it will come in handy when I am out of warranty.
Oh they also tried to argue after the fact that my timing chain was loose because it had stretched. No you idiots, it's loose because there isn't enough oil pressure to tension it! God those service advisors pissed me off.
Good explanation for the what and why regarding the KSDS update which enables the extended engine warranty eligibility. No matter how many times I've explained it, there's always someone who says "I got the update, why did my engine break?" Because the update was never meant to "fix" anything but rather decrease the likelihood that you'll be able to drive it until the wrist pins are the only survivors. Still see a few seized, but it became far less common after the update.
Sounds more like a fake hurdle thrown down in front of owners in order to deny repairs . Looks like they are learning from Toyota. Ha.
We blew two high pressure fuel pumps before the engine gave up the ghost. It took Kia only 6 days to get it replaced which is 5 months faster than when it ate a valve and turbo.
Thanks for the Saturday night carnage, I always appreciate that. When #3 blew, it didn't run for long---if it did, you'd see torn-up bearings and blued rod caps and mains. We can't put this one on owner negligence, this has pure factory defect written all over it
The problem is detonation. That’s why the knock sensor is on cylinder #3. Because the engine is designed to run at its limit so it has to run with a certain timing advance, and the two inboard cylinders get the most heat which can increase detonation. So I would guaranty cylinders 2-3 get the most heat and if the knock sensor is bad or not functioning properly the piston cracks from detonation and that causes it to seize in the cylinder and that destroys the bearing and so on. Don the mechanic!
I guess timing advance is why they only require regular gas despite pretty high compression ratio (at least on my Rio).
Uploads twice in a week? Two days in a row? God bless you dude. Keep up the good work
They should put Apple tags in all the wrist pins so you can retrieve them later from the interstate
Almost funny, nice try though.
I've had my Elantra with a NU engine for 13 years and 73,000 miles. Every time I see a video like this I break out in a cold sweat.
Keep up with your oil changes and keep the receipts.
If yours is a 1.8 NU its not a GDI engine they are pretty decent little motors keep up on oil changes every 3,750-4,000 miles keeping receipts won’t help since its not under the recalls
HUH, was yours built in the USA? I suspect this might be a contributing factor. Every complaint about Hyundai/Kia seems to be from US customers. In Australia i dont seem to see or hear of any problems like this, but ours are not US built,
@@adoreslaurel Mine was built in Korea and so far it has been 100% reliable.
@@JoeMama827 Our little Getz had only 89000 Kms, but has been good to date. Korean built.
My family's '16 Sante Fe Sport went pop at about 65k during a vacation road trip. I have an interesting tidbit of information that might help inform the theorycrafting:
My dad had his foot down to pass someone on the highway - the third time that trip - at the moment it started making horrifying noises.
Unlike a lot of people who own these, he immediately pulled off and checked fluids and everyhing (oil level fine).
When he saw no obvious problems, he went another mile, then pulled off and called a tow when the terrible noises persisted. They honored the warranty.
So I personally think that's a major reason why some engines last while others don't: Whether or not the owner is pushing them too hard.
inb4 Yes, I know, a correctly designed engine should not delete a bearing just because you pushed the tach past 3500.
Bonus fun fact for reading this far: My stepmom blamed my dad for blowing it up.
Woman: gotta love em!😂
I think your stepmom was right! 🤣
Back-to-back teardowns? We aren’t worthy!
We are so not worthy
Eric, for Halloween, you need to wear all the timing chains you have collected and call yourself Mr T. T as in Timing.
“I pity da fool!”
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
What a shame. My little 2.0 in the 2000 elantra is probably still running for someone. I changed the timing belt twice and sold it for 100 bucks at 200k miles. I loved that little engine. I saw it on the road about a year after I sold it.
Late 90s and early 2000s Hyundai's were goated.
My buddy who worked at a Hyundai dealership years back said he built towers behind the shop with all the blown theta engines had had accumulated over a few months
Sure he did
Wright built 18 cyl, 3350 cubic inch radial engines, used in b-29s, Lockheed constellations, etc. Later versions had 3 power recovery turbines, exhaust driven, that returned power to the crank, rather than driving a compressor (as a turbocharger does)
They had some reliability issues, so PRT came to mean "parts recovery turbine" among mechanics, as cylinder debris could be found jammed in them after failure.
I think they made their own inspection ports, too.
Mechanic humor will probably never change. Doesn't need to, either!
What I have seen about the Kia engine replacement program applies to 2010-2015 model years, and is because of improper machining and cleaning of the crankshafts during manufacturing. That engine is a 2018, and rod bearings don't normally grenade a piston. I have also heard of GDI detonation when not us API SP grade oil. That piston looks suspiciously like that is what happened, and would be just cause to dny warranty.
Hyundai replaced my 2.4 when it failed at 190,000 km. It had all the updates and had no issues until around 185,000 km it went in limp mode. It was checked and passed until the final fail where limp mode turned into tow truck. I'm happy with the new engine. It's a lot better on fuel than the old one.
I love that YT showed a Hyundai ad before this video!
"The 3rd 1st thing" I'm definitely saving that for later use....
Folks a wise advice on modern cars specifically the ones equipped with GDI engines. Use always API SP grade engine oil and do oil analysis every 8.5 K Miles to detect any anomalies. Modern engines have very tight tolerances and the use of proper oil is crucial
We have this engine in my late wifes 2019 Kia Soul which she purchased new. It has 46K miles and I have avoided bringing it to the dealer due to all the horror stories Ive read about how the 'reflash' causes the engine to run bad, stall, etc and people have to have their vehicles towed back to the dealer. I drive the car very gently and try to never exceed 2500-2700 RPM. It gets 30+ MPG. I had been changing the oil and filter every 6000 miles (owner manual spec is 7500) but the last one was at 5000 miles which I will maintain doing.
Kia claims most people should go by the "severe" use oil change interval of 3750 miles or 6 months.
Well I went and bought myself an LH2 version Northstar engine a couple weeks ago and got it all torn down, and I've gotta say, for only costing me $480. dollars grand total and "supposedly" having 157k miles, it's really nice looking inside. And it came with EVERYTHING on it and with it, computer, under hood wiring harness, manifolds, motor mounts, all the accessories, throttle body, flexplate and torque tube coupler, starter,,, everything.
It was definitely a score....
Just gotta get her built up for some BOOST now!!!
Why do I sense Eric has a trophy room full of timing chains?
He could gold-plate them and every brutha would want one.
I think he has a secret timing chain fetish. Go watch ANY of his videos and watch how he handles them, and pay attention to what he says.
its more like a sex dungeon then a trophy room
He does have a deep love of chains... But at least he always starts at the front
I sure would like to know what happens to those ... 😏
My buddy has a Hyundai sedan with a turbo engine. His wife normally drives it short trips 1-3 times a week. Their teenage son drove it through the desert/mountainous area here outside of Phoenix and blew the engine! Now at dealership awaiting approved engine swap.
My guess is the machining of the oil galleries in the crankshaft and/or block has some problems with sizing, obstructions, and/or cleaning. Something is reducing the oil volume/pressure to the rod bearing in #3.
I seriously just went through this woth my 2012 sonata. P1326 is the death code. Bearing clearance. Better keep that oul changed because is not, they WILL NOT cover the engine replacement. I got lucky even though i bought mine 2nd hand. Had every oil chamged logged and got a new motor.
Keep the oil changed every 3,500 miles with a factory filter sounds dumb but I swear it works we have 5 of the 11-13 cars in my family the ones using aftermarket filters have all had engines before 150k the 2 that use factory filters and Valvoline/Mobil 1 full synthetic both have over 200k on original motors and dont even use oil. Did find the Valvoline Restore and Protect helped oil consumption greatly on one of the replacement motors that Hyundai didn’t cover being a rebuilt title.
@@Austin-cg7be i read online a few places to use only factory oil filters on my '07 santa fe 2.7. after 500 miles on an oil change with a quality aftermarket filter developed valve noise, not bad but concerning, swapped in a hyundai filter and slowly went away!
@@ScottUnangst yep !! I almost blew up my Genesis Coupe using an aftermarket QUALITY filter used Mobil 1 and K&N aftermarket and always thought it was going to let go put a factory one on and it quieted right down
in my opinion: If you are the original purchaser receiving an official notice of recall from the manufacturer before the engine explodes, it establishes evident state whereas accusation to not changing oil has definite legal problems because some oils do not need changing until they reach 1 year or 20K on odometer interval. If the engine explodes, there's no way such accusation could stand relying on "hear say" in the form of post hoc fallacy. "Character attacks" loose to fact & official notices/documents issued by the manufacturer. If denying a warranty claim, lack of service history would be meaningless to the official acknowledgement to the original owner. 2nd had buyers definitely need a service history being they have a limited warranty option that would be viewed as an as-is contract in court going towards a breach of contract requiring performance facts on both sides of the case.
If you show a certificate/diploma from an automotive tech school you attended, proof of oil change isn't so important when you do all of your maintenance work being more qualified than the average oil change place service attendant. It negates a dealership post hoc character attack point blank. Hear say is not admissible as evidence unless it corroborates a form of evidence & is not evidence by itself.
I had challenged a Ford dealer once to deny my warranty claim based on me servicing my own vehicle & there was the Chevy dealer too. One of these days a stupid dealer will try me & loose his ass in court.
The Elantra uses the port injected version of that engine which is not included in the warranty extension. So instead of what you see here, the main thing they do (and usually a bit past 100k miles) is have the pin between the exhaust camshaft and its phaser shear off. That results in a timing code (adjustments become impossible) and is very much repairable if not ignored too long.
Sadly, a neighbor of mine had her car go up in flames in the property drive way. I had to call 911 to "increase their response time". When it became too dangerous, I encouraged her to get away from it because the fumes were toxic. We both had to watch her KIA go up in flames. Fire Department showed up about 5 minutes too late.
The problem I have with these engines is that it is a known fact of a defect. There are dealers with back orders for replacement engines. The people most affected are not rich people. These are folks living check to check relying on a vehicle that takes them everywhere.
Good. so she followed Hyundai's official instruction which is do not park your car inside a garage, only park outside. the most ridiculous instruction ever.
A Friday night and Saturday night tear down?! Heck yea
I noticed you left the pump when rotating the engine. At the end I thought you were going to smash it off with a hammer and then I was disappointed when I saw the impact. In the end you didn't let me down 😅
Buddy said he read they didn't properly chamfer the crank oil passage and it eats the bearing.
Well done Eric, for over 3 years now you’ve made my Saturday night ritual of watching I Do Cars before bed entertaining and I want to say thank you
A buddy of mine works for Hyundai and his girlfriend is on her second engine. He said it's a known defect but they really don't have a permanent fix; the corporate office is just hoping their next design is reliable.
I knew a guy that actually bought a used water pump at a junk yard for $5 then bought a new gasket for $5 it was for a sbc at the time you could by a new water pump and gasket for $15.
When you factor the time it took to get to the yard, that's a winning strategy right there. If you make $1/hr...
Thankfully it's only the 2.0 that has the issue. My 1.6 isn't part of this crowd. It's 4.5 years old 62k miles on it and purring happily. The only thing giving me a bit of trouble is the other part of the engine....... Transmission. Slight hesitation and delays in switching gears. But outside of that the rest is just fine.
My son's 2017 Sonata is on its 3rd 2.0t. The first developed a knock and the dealer was quick to replace it under the lawsuit. The second engine began misfiring at about 4500 miles so I replaced the plugs. The misfire seemed to go away but I scheduled a trip to the dealer anyway and they said the car was good to drive until then. I decided not to drive it at all until the appointment. Well, I went on a test drive and didn't make it 5 miles before one of those holes opened up on the front of the block in cylinder 4. The dealer completely tore down the engine to satisfy Hyundai and got us another free engine. They also gave us a rental while we waited 3 months. The final bill, which we didn't have to pay, was over $10,000. That's more than the value of the car right now. The dealer = 10/10. Hyundai = 1/10.
That's unfortunate, no coverage for a known issue, b/c it had the factory tune. Seems crazy that they can deny coverage, when the alledged fix won't save the engine.
We had a Ford Exploder which has the talent of making the spark plug in cylinder #3 go short from the electrode to the shell within 500 miles. I kept a box of plugs on hand to change plug #3 whenever I got a misfire code.
Change coil 3-2 etc.
My wife has a Tucson and we got the engine re-flash done. Our local dealer seems pretty straight - the guy told me if the engine fails after this, they just replace it under warranty, no questions asked. Then he pointed at the shop and said 'That's what half those guys are doing right now.' Too bad it's such a bad design, as it's otherwise a good vehicle.
That wristpin got drop kicked through the block by the crank counterweight as soon as it fell out of the rod. Thanks for the teardown.
I'm interested in your comment about regular oil changes with so much carbonised oil in that engine. I would say that either A) the car was running in extreme conditions and should have had oil changes every 3000 miles, or B) they used the cheapest oil they could find, or C) they lied to try and pass the warranty?
I would love to buy some of the REALLY mangled bits but postage to Oz just a bit steep right now. Maybe later this year. Maybe high resolution photos of REALLY mangled parts might sell? I would buy like half a dozen, plus a REALLY mangled part and make a display “modern art.”
The technicians here might poo poo that idea but they are too used to engines-some of the carnage, “the malice in the combustion palace” is REALLY colossal!
I don’t know why water pumps are so denigrated-often they are in better shape than many other parts-but the, errrr, disposal of them is pretty comic-also a potential great photo/bit of video.
If they say its a machining clean out problem, I would guess maybe it's the oil passage between the crank bearing and the rod bearing, restricting oil flow to the number 3 rod bearing.
We have 2 hyundai i30 and i40 turbo diesels.. super reliable and great performance.keep changing that oil every 3 months with full synthetic regardless.
I have a 2016 i30 crdi. Done 310,000. Original engine - never had an issue and it runs like new. Change oil every 15,000. Incredible car.
How much that cost you for an oil change ?
2006 Elantra with the 2.0L Beta II engine. Absolutely bulletproof since Day 1 on 12/23/2005. Zero oil leaks, and uses no oil between 3K oil changed with 5w30 Mobil 1. Only failure since purchase was the TPM (throttle position module) and its cost was $25 I replaced in 20 minutes. Only 142K miles. The Beta II's original design was done by Mitsubishi, but then tweaked by Hyundai. Ask any Hyundai tech, the old Beta II is an excellent engine good for at least 200K.
Apparently they went down-hill after that. My brother-in-law had a 2013 Elantra, which he finally got rid of after replacing the engine *twice* on that thing. Neither engine had over 100k on it. But he got tired of taking it to the dearlership for a new engine every three - four years and so he told them to keep it after the second blown engine. He's now driving a Honda Fit and hasn't had any problems with it.
The factory maintenance schedule on these (per Alldata) is every 3500 miles. I think they have figured out that 5k is too far
Fun fact. If you buy a new Honda in Australia, the service interval is 5,000 km or six months. That's every 3,100 miles.
I was an auto insurance adjuster. These problems are so common. But my brother has a Kia Optima right at 200K miles and it still runs.
The Safety Tote make a triumphant return 🎉 🎉🎉
Oh, Eric. I love your moments of goofiness. The chain guides bit was one of the best, so far. On the flip side, I’ve also learned quite a bit about engines.
Traded in my '20 Optima 2.4 for a '24 Corolla 2.0 and couldn't be more delighted. Big mistake corrected with the right choice.
Can't go wrong with a new Toyota! I just purchased a 24' Toyota Camry, great cars. I hope to drive it for the rest of my life. I wanted to get the last naturally aspirated Camry, did not want to worry about the hybrid system 18 years down the road.
@@donniev8181 yeah except the stop sale on the trucks because their engines are blowing up...
@HarryTwatter everyone on earth recognizes Toyota as the most reliable auto manufacturer, everyone except butthurt Honda fanboys that is.
@@donniev8181I get what your point is here and Toyota indeed has a great rep for reliability but the reality is their NEW TTV6 in the tundra is having issues. For context I’m the kinda guy who recommends buying a Toyota if you don’t know what you want but you want it to be reliable. Sometimes new designs have engineering OR manufacturing issues.
@@ivancliff2514 again, your comment has absolutely nothing to do with our conversation!
My take on the reflash is Hyundai trying to void warranties. My girlfriend made the mistake of buy a 2018 Santa fe, while drive al of a sudden the engine wouldn't go over 1600rpm. We were informed by the stealership that the warranty was voided because it didn't get the update mandated by a "quiet recall". After a call to Transport Canada, and a news channel suddenly they noticed that they had never notified her. To that point the stealership did ALL the maintenance. She was without her car for 4 weeks before they did the right thing.
Another time they refused to do a recall because the replacement part had been superseded, 5 weeks before they agreed that it was the same part, just a different part number.
Saturday night teardown!! Thx Eric, you da man 👌🏽
A few months prior to being replaced after Thanksgiving 2018, my '12 was examined for issues shortly after receiving correspondence in the mail. Everything was "good", and the dipstick was replaced with one of a different color. My guess was that it would signify that it passed Hyundai's initial addressing of the engine failures. A few months after the engine was replaced under warranty, in the mail came another letter stating a new update to the PCM was available to address further issues. It was something about cold weather issues. What initially caused the trip to the dealer was a ticking sound (top of engine) upon the first morning start after sitting overnight.
This engine left us with more question than answers!
Kia?Hyundai , nuff said.
clink clink clink BOOM!
My 2014 Kia Soul had the 2.0 motor, I bought it for my daughter unaware that engine is problematic… she was 18 and running active miles, enjoying the car until a month later the engine blew with 51,000 miles on it. After a month of back and forth with dealership and angry threat of litigation, Kia replaced with a new engine under the recall.
I have to give negative feedback to Kia for that whole process… it took a month AFTER the first month before Kia would get the car into the shop for replacement.
Next up, a month after getting the car back the panoramic roof track failed. That is a bodyshop repair that also took forever to get done.
My question is, did they just replace the bad engine with a new version of the same engine? Isn't it likely to just fail before 100k miles again?
How does an engine "blow?" In decades of experience, I have never seen it "blow" or "explode." Metal isn't an explosive.
Great video as usual. As a used car mechanic, I have been seeing Hyundai's with new engines. This video gives us a glimpse into the problem. But I am still wondering what is causing the #3 cylinder to fail as Eric has pointed out. Ford, Hyundai, and now Toyota are all now having, or should have been have engines problems of one sort or another.
Thanks again Eric
Breakfast of champions, Hammer Forged Piston Chunks.
I've always thought that motors should have negative crankcase ventilation to accompany the PCV system... little did I know: Kia already thought of that.
They can change the logos and make them as pretty as they want but at the end of the day, its still a PoS Kia.
I gotta say, their engines can stack rod bearings better than any other brand in their respective class.
We had a 2005 Tuscon with the V6. The engine seemed pretty good but we sold it before it had too many miles. I was semi impressed with it, however I've seen so many issues with so many Hyundai's in recent years, I'd never buy another one. But to be honest, that GM 3.0 Duramax video was astonishing. They need to rename it, the Junkamax. People are paying good money for those and once they find out what they have, they are going to be really angry!
Or the Ford 2.7 Ecoboost with a belt in oil driving the oil pump.
That was some serious chain guide air time!!😂
Ahh the sound of head bolts coming off. Satisfaction in sound wave form.
I had a feeling there was a reason for leaving the water pump for last, and you didn't disappoint Eric!!!
Thank you.
His comedy bits are gold 😂
Our 2017 Tuscon got the recall done, it was inspected, knock sensor computer programmed for the creep mode and additional 100k warrantee. It creeped once but they couldn't find anything wrong after being at the dealer for two weeks. It later turned out to be caused by a valve cover leak onto a sensor. It's actually a good running car, but we traded it on a 2025 RAV 4 SLE Premium after 125k. Why test fate?
This is not a new problem. I have been an auto repair tech for 27 years. In 1997 Dodge Dakota's with the antique 318 were the subject of a recall to flash the ECM because the EPA caught Dodge rolling these out with a different flash than they tested. 2 things became clear very quickly: 1; The recall flash was causing trucks to come in on the hook left and right with a hole burned in the #1 cylinder. 2; Don't flash someones truck with the recall file. I'm not saying I broke any laws or stole money for work I didn't do but I am saying I wrote down that I reflashed a PCM when I didn't. And we had a DRB3, the factory scan tool at the time, that still had a copy of the factory production ECM file and every truck that was in the scope, that I worked on, was checked and had this file installed. I want to change your belts and coolant hoses, I do not want to replace your engine. From personal knowledge I am aware of many other manufacturers having problems with otherwise reliable engines due to chasing for that last 0.10% MPG. Every time I see a Hybrid with cheap non low rolling resistance tires I just want to scream. So much dumb stuff is going on to turn a 33mpg car into a 34mpg car. And- almost 50 years ago a Datsun B210 got 50mpg.
That's before fuel had vegetable oil in it
Wasn't that Datsun a Cricket?
My late sister had a Rondo with this engine. 80k miles, the #3 cylinder was trashed. Not to the point of having inspection ports in the block but it certainly had rod knock. Odd thing the mechanic showed me is that if you took the plug wire off that cylinder it got quieter. Dealer refused the warranty claim because she couldn’t prove that the oil was changed every 3000 miles BY THE DEALERSHIP. And finding a good used replacement engine at a price that made sense was impossible. Oh the wrecking yards had no shortage of vehicles that used that engine but they all had bad engines that Kia wouldn’t warranty. The Rondo, in beautiful condition other than the engine ended up making a one way trip to the junkyard. Almost every wrecking yard you find, if you find a nice looking Kia it probably has a bad engine and it’s probably one of these engines. Put this on the legendary engines list with other goodies, like the Chrysler 2.7 V6 or the Ford EcoSport 1 litre 3 cylinder… or even the Vega (remember those?)
Vega or monza- Jumper the fuel pump switch on the engine,add oil every 2 days....no smoke at all.
@@Dieselfueledwork I had a friend that used 80W-90 gear lube. He was a “backyard mechanic” who worked for a cam / crank grinding shop in Detroit and he made some really bizarre low buck (VERY low buck!) modifications. Things that we called, uh, “creative alternative repair”.
@@Huggy1959 done that on 6.0 power strokes when the injector seals on the oil rail start leaking,to get them into the yard for repair.
Weird? If this the same engine I had in my 2018 Elantra non-turbo, something is wrong. I never had an issue. Bought the car brand new. Used Mobile 1 Synthetic since first oil change. Sold the car with 82,000 miles on it years later and never had one single issue. Changed my oil every 4500-5000 miles on time.
My in-laws bought a new one and it came with a 'lifetime power train warranty'. When it blew at 101k, the dealer that they bought it from said 'that's normal wear and tear'. The dummies bought another one.........
Ooof 🤦♂️ family friend of ours had a sonata which blew, warranty was denied and all...his younger brother then got a forte with the 4 cyl Nu engine...don't get it, maybe it is all they can afford or perhaps they like how they look..?
P T Barnum was right... A sucker born every minute.
@@The_DuMont_Network And two standing in line to take advantage of them
toyota and honda have issues and dont have the warranty
What year and make? I have 180K miles on my 2013 F-150. Brother has 200K 2010
Hell guy, here in Japan I scrap cars that have covered 100,000 kilometres. That's 62,000 miles. When passenger cars are as cheap as they are here in Japan, equity is so low (US$1,000) and scrapping is FoC, you roll it into the scrapyard when the repair estimate exceeds replacement. One extra detail is that average annual distance driven is some 8,000 kilometres.
Jack, the Japan Alps Brit
Mr T would be proud of that chain!!
since you see a lot of failures on 3, i'm inclined to believe it's an engineering design problem somewhere. something in the way it rotates during operation that puts more force or vibration (balance) or whatever on #3, or maybe the way the oil flows while running that eventually oil starves or overheats that area..
We rented a Tuscon in Albuquerque a bit ago and while it didn't strand us and it admittedly was a comfortable vehicle, the drivetrain didn't feel well sorted. The transmission was constantly hunting up and down even on flat highway sections and it was looking for power it didn't have... But solid looking and very functional, just wouldn't keep it over 50k miles...
I am Tom from Tucson. Note the spelling.
Their easy thefts made me get rid of both our Kia and Hyundai for 2 RDXs.
@@lonniebeal6032of course you did
also.. kia , Hyundai and a lot of dealers do NOT USE HQ oil.. they use crap bulk oil in unmarked drums... ask your dealer shop to show you the container your new car oil comes from !!
Yes, KIA dealers are still using conventional or at best blend oil, when everyone else has gone to synthetic.
Those piston rings seemed pretty dirty considering the low miles and good oil change intervals.
Wondering about that myself - what were they using, motor oil from 1920?
It’s very interesting watching you tear this engine down from the top like a normal person. I recently tore one apart from the bottom up because it spun two bearings and had a knock. Good news is we had it programmed and are getting a new engine through warranty…. In four months
25:54 Jiggle bells, Jingle bells, pistons gone away.
LOL! Thanks man. Now i can't unhear that.
Oh what fun it is to ride in a japjob every day...
A friend threw a rod on his lift truck. Through the hole, he hose clamped a strip of sheet metal around the empty rod journal to prevent oil loss..maintain pressure. Shoved piston up to TDC...still runs it on 3 cylinders. It has been that way for a long time.
Someday I think you should do a teardown with only a cutting torch. LOL (Probably want to be outside though). 😊 Thanks for the video!
He'll have to use his "hot breath" so his insurance company doesn't know any better.
Oxy-acetylene cannot burn cast aluminum engine block/heads. Can melt but not make cuts.
@@christinesommerfeld9815 so he needs a 1mw laser then?
The owner did not maintain the car based on the oil that came out of the filter. I have the same 2 liter 4 engine in a 2017 Tucson 180K miles. It has never been past 5,000 RPM. It purrs like a kitten. At about 50K miles, it started to burn one quart of oil every 1,500 miles. Other than that, new tires, brakes, battery, and spark plugs. That is it. Great car.
Do you have a history of the car from where the engine came?
He said it had 5000 mile oil changes! And you cannot be serious about that amount of oil burning being good. It’s horrible!
Ladies and gentlemen the wrist pin has left the building.
Literally just sold my 16’ Tucson April past, glad that it gone, nothing but issues with it. Put on a positive the engine wasn’t knocking or ticking yet when I sold it. Had 71,000 miles on it when I sold it
You need to dip chains in a gold color to plate em then go set up. a little stand on Broadway in st.louis and sell up as being chains....😅
I’m in Canada (Winnipeg). My 2019 Tucson didn’t blow up but went into limp mode. I had no idea what limp mode was or why it came to be. A stop in Regina got me out of that mode (By-passed the knock sensor). Told me to check in with my Winnipeg dealer ASAP. Did not charge me anything! Back at Winnipeg dealer I was stunned to find out I was getting a new engine under warranty after Approx 70000 Km of use. Even the rental was covered. One thing all maintenance including oil changes was done by them and I had kept all my invoices in the passenger door pocket. I guess Hyundai Canada has more integrity than US division but I have no beefs whatsoever with Hyundai
Hyundai tech here, engine was most likely denied warranty coverage dude to the the engine ecu not being updated
Yeah. Bearing gave out and they probably kept driving on it until the piston deleted itself.
What's that do. Detune the engine from the power originally paid for?
@@ChristdelivermeIt basically puts the engine into limp mode if the knock sensor picks up a certain level of knocking.
@@sharkinstxSo the vehicle goes into limp mode randomly while driving, you take it in, they still deny warranty.
Wife's 2017 Tucson decided to start eating oil at 75,000 miles or so. I thought it was engine bearing recall, dealer said it was down to 1.5 QT of oil!!! Low pressure pump flaked at 88,000. We'll run it till it dies...our first and last Hyundai/Kia.
To Hyundai's credit, the LP pump is a pretty easy swap, so good design to allow access without dropping the tank.
Between how easy it is to steal them and how bad their engines are I don't know why anyone would buy a Hyundai or Kia
They don't know.