Always BLOWN UP? WHY? Hyundai / Kia 2.4 Theta II G4KE Engine Teardown
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ย. 2023
- A BONUS TEARDOWN? Well, for Thanksgiving I figured I'd say thank you for all of the support, comments, and general automotive camaraderie with an extra teardown. Plus, I need more room on my shelves for more blown up engines.
Every week you can find a new teardown of some abused, misused and/or poorly designed engine. I've got over 150 videos of failed engine teardowns on this channel.
Today's subject is a 2.4L MPI Theta II 4 cylinder from a 2010 Hyundai Sonata with 140K miles. This was a core return from an engine a salvage yard I deal with sold. Its clear there are several user installed inspection ports with the added benefit of crankcase ventilation. I don't do a ton of Hyundai/Kia vehicles so most of my experience with these engine failures has to do with what my customers and cohorts say, plus what I've read. Every single bad Theta II engine was lower end trouble, and came with a similar story. Lets try to figure out why there's such a commonality amongst engine failure mode with these. This core was stripped fairly bare so this video isn't as long as they usually are.
Why do I do this? My name is Eric and I own and run Importapart, a full service auto salvage facility in the Saint Louis area. part of our model includes buying blown up and core engines, and dismantling them to sell the good parts. We do not rebuild engines, merely supply parts to those that do.
If you'd like to buy any of the parts out of this engine you can email us at Importapartsales@gmail.com and visit our website to peruse our full inventory at www.Importapart.com
I really hope you enjoyed this video. As always, I love all of the comments, feedback and even the criticism.
Catch you on the next one!
-Eric - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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I have a friend with a hyundai from 2012, last year it chucked a rod out the side at 100k miles. They got lucky and it was covered by the lawsuit, so they got a new engine for free. His wife wasn't happy when he told her, "you'll have this car another 10 years since it has a new engine!"
My ex wife has a 13 Tucson. At 87k (4 years ago) it gained a rod knock. The dealer balked on the warrantee until I pointed out that literally every other model with that engine was under a recall for engine failure. They did take good care of us as far as the replacement and rental but I was really sad a motor would go that fast with 3k mile oil changes and normal use. And yes. The new motor dictated keeping it for another 10 years.
@nicholasmoen1000 it's a real shame companies would rather deny, deny, deny to avoid paying in the short term, when really, by going along and replacing an engine, they are much more likely to get a return customer from the good service and being taken care of.
@@scott8919 Yeah, but for many companies these days, they value short term gains over long term gains most likely to benefit share and stock holders.
😂same happened with my girlfriend. Hers was replaced at 98k. She's now at 240k miles and ready to get a new car. I said it still has another 100k to go. Lol
@@ChrisKuwait My girlfriends mom has one in her 2013 Hyundai with 230k on the OG engine and has had timing chain noise for 6 years, still going. Blows my mind.
I have a 2014 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.0T that I changed the oil in every 5000 km or so. Always. Never ran the engine low on oil, that engine was always treated like a king. It spun a bearing on cylinder #1 at ~106000 km this summer one day when getting on the highway. I'm lucky that I had documents for a few of the recent oil changes because Hyundai Canada replaced the engine under the extended warranty (due to the machining cleaning issues/class action lawsuit). If an engine that is treated perfectly fine can die like this, I have zero faith in ever buying another Hyundai again.
Did you have documents for all oil changes or just the few leading up to the blow? How many did Hyundai ask for?
@@inboundbryguy I had the last one and like 1 or 2 more before that. I was actually surprised that they covered it, I thought I was done for. I hadn't kept that many receipts as I didn't know that they extended the warranty to 10 years 200,000km. It helps that the engine was pristine inside (as it well should have been) and had no other issues.
I forgot to mention, I had to pay the dealership $800+ CAD in "diagnosis" (it's knocking clear as day, what more do you want?) and to tear down the engine for evidence & pictures to send to Hyundai Canada :( I was out that amount and I should likely be fighting Hyundai Canada for it, but I honestly don't want to deal with Hyundai ever again. I'll consider myself lucky as the engine replacement quotes were north of $8000+ CAD.
@@StimpyBoythe warranty should have covered all the diagnosis, once they agreed to replace.
@@StimpyBoy My 2005 Sorento made it to about 800,000km before it broke down. Sounds like you were abusing your car or lying about changing the oil.
Just when I notice no water pump destruction. The man brings the classic water pump fatality. This channels never disappoints.
The "starving kids in Africa" made this whole video worth it.
I think we can safely say that every engine that has an internal water pump driven by the timing chain (Chrysler 2.7, Ford 3.5, Hyundai 2.4) is essentially a ticking time bomb. Very bad design by the engineers!
@@samarch2189 at least Hyundai is covering the failures. Chrysler basically blamed all of their own customers for "deferred maintenance" when the early 2.7's blew up at 60k miles, and somehow they managed to win out on all of the class action suits. The later ones used a much more robust water pump to stop the failures.
Long time Kia dealer tech here. Before the lawauits and the KSDS update, we saw plenty of engines with this level of damage, and greater. The update more closely scrutinizes the knock signal and puts the engine into limp mode (
I wish I was around when engines paid better!
How long does it take to remove and put in a new motor?
@Moondoggy1941 it took 2.5 days from diagnosis to pick it up with new engine installed. Just had it done 2 weeks ago. Had 85 thou on car , started knocking out of the blue. Changed oil relig every 3000 Miles. Thank God for warranty from kia. Was a 2015 sorento
@@thomasjensen5237 Mine was over a month, but we got a rental so I did not care either way. I am going in for my first oil change since the repair, it will go the dealer for now on. Religiously.
The reason is absence of Japanese and western engineers in Kia.
I used to tow cars. I towed these (and Subaru’s) ALL the time for blown engines. The dealerships were always packed full of Hyundais waiting for a new engine.
i heard subaru are finnicky. take care of it and it'll take care of you. neglect it and it falls apart.
@@bradhaines3142Don't listen to the Subaru fans. The 18+ cars are pretty reliable again, but Subaru went through a really rough decade before that.
Lots of bad engine/trans internals, turbos, cooling systems, wheel bearings, air conditioning and electrical systems.
Seriously Chrysler tier for a while there.
People trying to convince me Subarus are amazing when they're on the side of the road everywhere where I live lol
@@0HOON0 my stepdad has a 15, only suspension issues and thats thanks to ungodly potholes.
@@crazycoffeeYou probably saw my suberglue on the side in 1997. Never drove one after that. Best decision ever. Lol
If I'm remembering correctly, Hyundai admitted as part of the lawsuit that these were manufactured for years with metal shavings left in the oil passages. So forbidden glitter from the factory, very thoughtful.
EDIT: This is the earlier version of the Theta II that didn't have that problem.
It's more like the casting was left unclear on the oil ports leaving some oil passages not to be clear enough
If so, and on the crank drilling for that one bearing only, it would have died a long time before this happened. Chew up a bearing, major damage at first startup and then go 100,000+?
A small point- not Thanksgiving in the Canada portion of North America. 😉
@@rkinder6335Tons of Canadians have moved to the US. Are enjoying Thanksgiving here.
@@johnfranklin5277 😀
We own a 2017 Sonata with this engine. It started burning a lot of oil before 85k miles. Our local dealership did their 1000 mile oil burning tests on the engine and once they were done had a new engine approved the very next day. I have to say Hyundai did a great job in honoring their warranty. Now I am guessing they knew they really had no choice. LOL
Use pennzoil platinum and do oil changes every 5k miles. Mine went to 250k miles before I traded it in without issues. Same year as yours.
@@williambaldwin1707that's the thing though, some of them are fine. I'd say contaminated metallurgy or improperly built.
My gf is just now doing the consumption test and it burned like 1.14 quarts in 1K miles. They are going to do the “Compression cleanout” thing and then probably new motor. This thing sucks down the oil and knocks horribly. Last Hyundai for us.
glad to hear it. im having this done soon. only have 75k miles on mine.
@@Debate_everything Ditto with ours. Just put tires on it. Two payments to go. Sucks.
As a blind mechanic, I'd like to say how nice it is to listen to you.
Cracking head bolts, speeded up soud, slowed down sound..... "PENATRATOR"
Are much appreciated!
So you worked for Jeep Chrysler dealership
@@dragonbutt no, but I did have the fortunate chance to own a 64 Imperial , 413 wedge, 4bbl, push button tranny, weighing about 4 tons...lol😁
Weight = time....fun car !
Keep taking your eye drops.
Blind mechanic?
@@18890426 I have the knuckles to prove it...😅
That is the most complicated oil pump I have ever seen. Integrating the harmonic balancer with the oil pump is interesting.
sammcbride2464 it's maybe a bit complicated but by far not even slightly the most complicated. Those are just simple open oil pump gears, not even slightly difficult by today's standards. But I've seen some of Eric's videos where basically the oil pump is a fiendish monkey puzzle that once you pull it apart, it's never going to work again. I forget which engine it was, but when Eric gives up on even pulling something completely apart due to complexity and then admits that there's no way in hell it's ever going back together, let alone being an oil pump ever again, you know its complicated. I once owned a Telefunken German designed VCR that worked fantastically for about 6 years, but when it stopped working, the advice was - 'get a new VCR' The thing was made to work flawlessly for a certain lifespan, but after that, non repairable - because once pulled down it was never going back together - it was that intricate and involved. Similar thing with some of Eric's pull downs on oil pumps. A Hyundai is not complicated and actually really simple. Especially when you compare it to this. An Audi S6 5.2 litre V10, that is totally trashed. Not really a complicated oil pump (and I still want to find the engine that has the most comically over-complicated oil pump I've ever seen on this channel), but the rest of this Audi is mind bendingly over-the- top-complicated, and I was actually laughing at how silly it is. And the damage........man that's even more fun! lol 😆 th-cam.com/video/AMj5bIRqiLE/w-d-xo.html
If your talking about the balance shaft thats not the oil pump. balance shafts are pretty standard in a modern engine. Im assuming you were talking about the balance shaft cause the oil pump on these is extremely basic.
@@sambeagle72 I am used to a balance shaft. Many engines I have taken apart have them, but they are a simple geared shaft that needs to be timed to the crank. I am talking about the integration in this specific video of what seems to be the balance shaft integrated into the oil pump assembly. I have not seen it that way. The balance shaft is normally orthogonal of the oil pump and you can replace an oil pump without having to deal with it.
So my understanding is their is a small piston pressure regulator on the oil pump housing that will start to jam from small debris the that get by the filter. I suspect that over time the pressure starts to drop but not quite enough to illuminate the oil pressure warning light. Combine this with oil consumption and the general public not checking their oil level as religiously is a recipe for disaster.
Honda just announced a rod bearing recall on recent J motors. But BMW would just call this kind of thing normal wear items. That said, though, I had a BMW/Mini w a B38 that actually had a stop sale/recall on a main bearing. I find it remarkable that something as old-tech and fundamental as plain bearings still have regular design/defect issues in this century.
The difference is BMW replaces them via recall other than the S85/S65. Kia denies, tries to blame owners for years until class action suits were launched.
The goal is to make bearings 0.003435 rubles cheaper and making it 50% less reliable in the process.
yes BMW stands behind their bad designs!@@chrisbradley3224
@@MiGujack3 yeah like you said.
Cost cutting down to the bone
@@jasonsanders3397 Cost cutting down to the blown.🤥
I was one of the lucky ones. My Sportage got the rod knock at 99K miles, and had a local mechanic verify it. Then called the closest Kia dealer, and they had us tow it in and verified its a rod knock that was covered by warranty. They did give us a new longblock with no out-of-pocket costs, but it took three months because in their words "they had nine cars ahead of us".
as someone who worked at a hyundai dealer these things where EVERYWHERE with the same exact holes on that engine you got. esp the hybrid versions idk why but the hybrids always went earlier then the non hybrid cars but they would all have the same falure area and have a nice viewing port into the engine. most of the time we would have the people driving them in like that having "lack of power" or "noisy when running" it was crazy to see them things in that state driving in
As a Hyundai technician I see these everyday.
Talk about job security!
Any updates if hyundai will cover the 3.3? Seems like they're having knocking issues too.
@@adrianpimentel7014 no they will not. They may goodwill warranty repair if you are the original owner though.
The 2008 Hyundai Sonata was the most-reliable rated by Consumer Reports in Sonata's entire history. It's all downhill since. Theta II engine came out for 2009 model, and the 4-speed auto transmission made by Mitsubishi was replaced with 5-speed auto made by Hyundai.
Is the g4kc (2.4 166 hp 2007 model) engine safe??
My parents are going through this with Kia as we speak. Got the extended warranty to 200k. Engine blown and now they are coming up with every excuse under the sun to not replace the engine.
And now they are trying to charge over 15k to get it fixed. All service records are in order as well and have been fighting with them over a year. Word to the wise, don't buy Kia/Hyundai junk, not worth the headache.
My favorite part of your videos are always the end when you wrap everything and have almost a heart to heart discussion with the audience. It reminds me of 80’s-90’s shows.
The contrast in wear between the main bearings and the connecting rod bearings seem to reinforce Eric's idea that the con-rod bearings aren't designed to handle the load and wear.
The fault was swarf left in the crank after manufacturing, so the metal shavings were forced into the big end bearings the moment it was first started. And that's where it stayed until the bearings were trashed.
@@cageordie So, to make it clear, you believe swarf starved the rod bearings until one prematurely spun out, vibrating the rod till it shattered?
I concur with Eric. Under sized rod journals and the too skinny rod itself. Design issue
I agree mine blew up at 150k km when I was flooring it on the highway the rpm went to the highest and suddenly engine was off and all the dash lights were on ( I was cruising at 90 mph when it happened 😂). The thing is before this I stopped at a gas station and the engine was completely fine standing next to it, it was so quiet that I thought the engine was off. So I refused to believe metal shavings were floating around and suddenly decided to destroy the engine after 6 years and 150k 😂.
This engine ruined my buddy's life. Metal in oil at 115k. No help from Hyundai. 6k for replacement. Had to start double shifting at work to make ends meet.
Thank you again for all you do! I might suggest a tiny correction, the Thanksgiving day North America, in the United States occurs later in the year, because in Canada, the growing season is much shorter, and celebrating the harvest occurs sooner. This year, our Thanksgiving was October 9th. A Blessed Thanksgiving to all!
@@phillipbanes5484 Because he said "[It's] Thanksgiving, at least for me and the people in North America".
Great video, had personal experience with this engine. Bought a 2011 Sorento in 2015 with 50k miles. Put on another 70k miles and changed the oil every 3500 - 5000 miles. Replaced steering rack under warranty and never had any other problems with it. At 120,000 miles we gave it to our youngest son when he moved to Florida. Just after Christmas 2022, while driving from VA to FL, the engine when BANG, but he managed to nurse it home 600 miles to FL. He got a new engine under warranty. I must say KIA stands by its products. Other than the offending connecting rod, I'm impressed with the lack of wear in the internals. Would be interesting to see if oil gallery to the #3 con rod bearing was blocked.
Good to see that KIA uses a steel timing chain. Subaru engines have interference valves and are notorious for bending them when the rubber timing belt breaks.
My 2014 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid blew its engine at about 133k miles due to the rod knocking issue. I babied that engine changing oil every 5k and spark plugs at 100k, but it didn't matter in the end. Fortunately I had the KSDS update done earlier that year and maintained oil change records, so Hyundai is replacing the engine under warranty.
Thanks for the teardown. Very informative!
I have a 2014 Hyundai sonata gls 2.4L 110k miles. Did Hyundai ask you for oil change receipts and if so how far back did your oil change receipts go?
@@ethanhoff7772 They did not ask for any oil change receipts. I got my oil changed at places that reported vehicle service history to Carfax, so that may have had something to do with it. But if push came to shove, I have receipts going back to when I bought the car at 27k.
@@ethanhoff7772 If you have your oil changed at one of the quick change places they will have a record of all the changes you had done there.
@@TheGreatSign well I had mine done at jiffy lube, they only keep records for 1 year then you can't get the record after that.
*I bought a used 2011 Hyundai Sonata* back in 2016 with 106k miles from auction for $5000. Two years later in 2017 with 130k miles, the engine locked up. *Local Hyundai dealership replaced the engine block with a brand new one for free due to a recall,* no questions were asked. They even gave me a loaner car. *Now in 2023 the car has 230k miles on the dash and driving great so I’m happy with Hyundai* and would gladly buy another one.
Happy Thanksgiving Eric. A engine that keeps on giving.
So glad someone else covered this! I’ve been covering these engines helping people get them replaced for 4 years now! Worst engine ever made! I wrote a book for anyone who wants help getting theirs replaced!
Thank you for doing this engine, my wife’s 2018 Santa Fe sport just got a brand new engine after 80k and burning over 1.5 quarts every 1000 miles. This is after 6 months of battling the dealership but it was eventually covered. The thing that I found out is that these cars do not have an engine low oil sensor (my 21 year old bmw will tell me the oil is 1qt low with a caution light). Also that Hyundai specs their engines so that if it burns 1qt per 1000 miles driven its is within specs. The oil system is 5 quarts and Hyundai recommends oil changes every 7500 miles. this is the reason for the lawsuit. The only and first indication you have that the oil is low is the oil pressure low warning light which she got driving to work and when I checked the oil after about 3000 miles from her last change the dipstick came out dry... First and last hyundai/kia we buy.
my sons 2017 sonata uses like a qt/qt.5 each month. dealer says rings are stuck. my extended warranty wont cover stuck rings only broken rings. so he has to check his oil when he gets gas and keeps a 5 qt jug off oil in the trunk.
My 20 year old BMW will warn you about low oil as well, and it'll actually burn a fusible link and shut the engine down in a prolonged low oil situation. I presume that this is both to protect the engine from people ignoring the warning light and necessitates a trip to the dealer to investigate why the oil got low.
That's 1980s dodge with 100k level oil consumption.
I check the dipstick at least weekly on my vehicles. Never go 3k miles without checking it in anything.
I do weekly checks on my running gear. I try and get my wife involved (🤣) to no avail.
i’m a master tech at kia and will tell you i replace atleast 4 a week for free on cars with this engine. couple factors are at play lack of proper maintenance, rod bearing sizing faulty/ direct injection engines have the worst issues by far/
to give an example i just had a 21 with the 2.4 come in that had 50k miles this week had a oil change at 20k miles and then its second one at 49k miles. engine began to knock at 50k and they are suprised they aren’t getting an engine under warranty… i also believe there is an issue with the oil pump they have for the 4 cylinders due tot he fact most failures i see are with the very last rod bearing getting improper lubrication
I work on them to. One of the main issues I think is the earlier theta engines where manufactured poorly and the oil passages wasn't clean properly. The later years and the replacement engines mainly have a oil consumption and they burn oil so bad that it goes low on oil too many times and then it blows. But also doesn't help that some people don't change the oil making it worse. The main thing is Hyundai should of changed their piston ring and oil control ring design.
@@rushking19 forgot to mention this, you are spot on. rings have such low tension that if you don’t keep up on those oil changes you will get clogged control rings and then the oil burning leads to the seized engines/knocking unfortantely
@@DOCTOR_KIA that and the oil control run is so tiny and thin so they easily get clogged that the Carbon from it being gdi .
How many oil change receipts do you need going back how far to be approved?
I've had 4 Hyundai/kia vehicles starting in 2005, and now a 2021 K5 GT LINE. Never had any engine issues, fortunately never had this engine. The cars over all were super reliable, no EXPENSIVE repairs, all kept till around 120.000 miles when sold. I keep buying them because I've always had a great experience with them. The K5 is a very nice vehicle. Thanks for the THANKSGIVING DAY TREAT!
Yes for sure
I have this engine in my suv with over 300000 miles and never had to do anything other than oil changes. I bought it brand new In 2010
Problem did not start till 2011, and your new one has the same crappy engine. Good luck making it to 100k miles
My last 4 hyundais have all been super reliable. Even the 2013 lemon elantra. No the engine was fine. The suspension geometry was a calamity.
@@stevenweiss2148 you got lucky then. I'm on a FB forum page, and every single day people tell their stories of how even new ones with less than 20k miles and the engine has blown... I joined in Jan with 4500 members, now the group has over 18k. The so called best warranty is crap when the manufacturer denies your claim for some bs item
My family leased a 2016 Sonata Limited with the 2.4, which I primarily drove from 2016-2019. Only put 45k on it, but during that whole time, engine was fine. I actually really liked it overall, great MPG AND a large fuel tank (18.5 gal), so ~600 mile range, great for long road trips (I prefer to stop for gas on my own terms). Heated & cooled seats, panoramic sunroof, quiet and comfortable.
I was tempted to buy out the lease after and own it myself, but ended up buying a Lexus ISF instead. The ISF was great, but it's harsh ride and bad mileage made me kinda miss my old Sonata. Years later I talked to an uber driver who was driving me in that same gen Sonata and I said "isn't this car great?" And he was like "no, not at all, this engine has had a lot of problems!" I was shocked. It was after that I learned how problematic these engines are. Safe to say I have no interest in owning a car with this engine (or even any Hyundai/Kia) again!
I find it literally hilarious that you were considering a Sonata, then you decided to get an ISF instead. That’s equivalent of looking at buying a Jetta, but settling on an M3 instead.
@@carsorsomethingidk I had two paths: quiet, efficient, comfortable, or a reliable V8 beast. I chose the latter. After driving 4 cylinders almost exclusively for 9 years, I needed to have power on tap.
It only takes a certain percentage of engines of the pile can ruin the brand.
Especially the percentage are high in this case.
Then you got a couple of lucky good ones that escaped that problem.
I'm a Kia tech. These engines burn oil all the time from the valves, causing us to do oil consumption checks ever 1k miles and they fail the check 95% of the time. After 3 checks, if they fail all 3, new motor. There's literally a nation wide recall on these motors to have them replaced because they are so bad. We replace at least 4 a week. Valve cover gasket issues are also common causing oil leaks. I've been waiting for this video lol. I've seen these being replaced before 10k because of oil consumption issues. When I mean it's every one, it's every single 2.4. Oil changes on these are always fun, because most the time not even a quart drains from them.
What about the 1.6t smartstream?
Thats crazy man. I own a 2015 optima with this engine. Bought the thing used with 33k miles and now at 85,700. I have always changed engine oil regularly and done other maintenance myself. My engine does not consume or burn any oil. I check that regularly.
I have also pulled my valve cover twice. First time I wanted to just check for wear and anything that might be wrong. The valve cover gasket looked so good I just stuck it back on after my check even though I knew that was a bad idea. I kept a close eye on it for leaks and there weren’t any. 18 months or so later I replaced the valve cover and fuel pump gaskets and the cams still look just fine. Those old gaskets were very brittle though.
@@Lighting21159those are great.
@@Lighting21159 sorry I'm getting back so late, but those motors haven't had any bad issues yet or reports of problems. I like them, not a lot of power but they are enough for the Kia K5 and Hyundai Konas. I think they are in the sonatas too. Only thing I've seen go bad on them was literally just a coil pack. Just keep up with oil changes every 4-5k miles. I've seen so many with over 100k on them
Had a Santa Fe with the 2.0T Theta II that blew up at 31k while coasting down a hill a few years ago. Had it towed to the dealer and they had 34 cars waiting on engines! Took almost 6 weeks to get it repaired
Over the last couple years I've seen these cars lined up at the local dealer service dept waiting for engine replacement. It has to be costing Hyundai a ton of money in warranty and "good will" repairs. Looking at the parts it's a pretty generic design but subtle problems can lead to big trouble. We've been building engines like this for 100 yrs but "lessons learned" get forgotten as experienced folks get retired.
I'm a warranty inspector and see these, probably 3 a month, more sometimes. I notice that it's almost always rod #3, either spins or seizes. I have a theory that it has something to do with the thrust bearing. Either too much clearance behind the bearing, or something to do with the drilling there, but changes delivery to the #3 bearin. , But that really doesn't explain why #4 doesn't suffer this fate equally, if not more. Talked to several techs and they think it possibly could be something along those lines. That dual oil pump is otherwise phenomenal to have, but somehow just doesn't negate this oil-related issue. Great video!!!
Years ago I worked with an Engineer who was the son of a Honda dealership owner. His fathers mantra was "oill is cheeper than overhaul". You channel should be required viewing for people who drive and own cars. We all need to be reminded that opening the hood and checking things is essential for engine life.
As a Hyundai Sonata owner. I’ve been waiting for this one! Happy thanksgiving Eric! 👍
Love these teardowns. Its fascinating how these different manufacturers solve the same problems and create others. If you ever have the time I would love to see (and i believe others would agree) a montage video of just cracking loose head and cam cap bolts. Keep up the great work and Happy Thanksgiving.
I'm truly amazed at how many nuts there are out there (I'm one) that get enjoyment out of watching another nut loosen even more nuts.
10 hours cramming cam caps loose
Yes, that's background noise for real men. I don't want to hear any of this gentle rain falling in a rainforest. I'll take cracking bolts any day.
Perhaps ranked in order from being able to undo the bolts with a crescent, through to needing a 2 metre extension, and the bar bends while extracting the bolts?
Have a 2013 Sportage with the 2.4 Theta GDI. It never saw more than 5,000 miles before another full synthetic oil change and fresh filter. It seized up (rod bearing of course) cruising on the highway at 89,000 miles and with 6 months remaining on the Kia original owner's 10-year warranty. The dealership and Kia honored the warranty so the otherwise great little SUV now has a new Kia rebuilt engine and the knock sensor hardware and software retrofits. You definitely got it right: the rod bearings in this engine are simply under-engineered size-wise. Hopefully, Kia is now using more advanced materials in its rod bearings for these rebuilds; if they're not, they're crazy since our new engine is under warranty until the Second Coming. The car is great, and the engine has always been very smooth running. After seeing that balance cartridge, I can see why. Your videos are splendidly informative btw; the way you tear down these engines is very purposeful, methodical, and instructive. The way you treat water pumps is another matter, however. I'm surprised the ASPCP hasn't gotten on your case for that. LOL
Wow... this one hits home... and on Turkey day.. how did you know...
I am stranded in Blueridge Georgia and couldn't get back to Knoxville Tennessee for Thanksgiving..
Very sad day..with metal shrapnel everwhere and holes in the block..
Now I have a hole in my heart..broken..
When I was in service at Kia they said it was #3 that would not get enough oil and throw a rod. This seems to match with what I was told for sure. Cool video
God bless you man, and happy Thanksgiving to you and your family. Even as a mechanic I never really get to tear down engines in the same way. I appreciate all you do and all you try to teach to people who want to learn how their engines work. Keep it up, we are all rooting for you.
I worked at Kia from about 2010-2017 and we all got real good at beating book time on engine R&R. I've seen a few, including one my daughter owns, last over 200K on the original Theta II 2.4 and everyone used 5W-30 Synthetic and changed the oil about every 4-5K. Yes, they are a POS lightweight crappy designed throw away engine but thin 5W-20 isn't their friend and especially for people that go 10K on oil changes and forget to check it and add some every once in a while. My Daughter's has always since day one used about a quart of oil every 4K and that's how I know it's time to change it.
I have a 04 Hyundai Elantra with 435,000 miles, runs perfect, engine and trans never cracked open. It's a family spare car now. I retired it and what do I do with it? Who's going to buy a car with 435,000 miles? If anyone needs to use it, the key is in the ashtray.
They honestly look like a fairly well made engine and surprisingly not cheap. Seems to me more so they have a major Achilles heel or two that have gone sadly unaddressed.
I have heard other people say they had always run 5-30 and never had any problem with their engine either.
i heard some folks putting Rotella T6 10-40 oil and help a lot with oil consumption
And the customer still pays full pop on non warranty repairs ! It's always been that way , sadly
Poking around on the phone and saw a new teardown mid-week.
So exciting.
Wife and kids have Seinfeld or The Office, some Netflix crap.
Teardowns are the stuff of life.
Thanks so much !
Keep it up!
Happy Holidays all.
Happy Thanksgiving from Australia Eric, we don't do Thanksgiving here but I'm grateful for you and your channel - I look forward to your videos every Sunday (which is when they come out here). This is a great bonus. All the best to you and the family.
Saw a short with a guy who supposedly got fired for showing 20 engines in a shop to get replaced in Kia/Hyundai's.
Y’all’s presentation technique is gold! Informative, yet humorous! Keep it up!!!
I have a 2014 Hyundai Sonata GLS w/2.4 engine. We have taken very good care of the engine since we got it used at 8k miles. Engine blew up at 96k miles. Took it to the dealer and since oil was full and clean (except for some forbidden glitter) the engine was replaced, no questions asked. We now have an engine with a lifetime warranty.
I own a 2018 Kia Sportage LX with this engine. Purchased it used at 29k miles three years ago, now up to 88k. Replaced the knock sensor harness and software update per the recall. Engine runs very smooth because I baby my cars. Mobile One Full Synthetic oil changed regularly at 5k miles or less. I also drive conservatively avoiding stomping on the pedal. Thank you for this teardown, very educational.
There are plenty of comments here suggesting that even well cared for H/K engines still blow up prematurely, i.e. poor design, poor metallurgy. You can do everything right, and they still grenade. I would stick with Japanese cars.
@@arcsound honestly as a former Hyundai dealer employee; it's all a matter of luck. We regularly had vehicles come through with 300-400k miles on trade I have pics of a first year Accent with 467k on the clock, rusted out (holla NE) but he drove it onto the lot and traded it. On the other hand Hyundai put in 15-20 engines for every one the Mazda shop replaced.
the older hyundai engines like the Alpha, Beta and Delta were great and rarely failed. Makes me sad to see Hyundai lost their way with these ones@@vinnys7514
@@vinnys7514
ivce had a maza for more then 22 years never had a problem and i did not treat that engine well ,, mazda makes good engines reliable engine in my opinion they rival toyota on reliability
Ah yes kia/Hyundai I can't remember a single engine ive worked on through many years of tearing apart engines that I hate more that the gdi engines.
Can I ask you what is the main issue with the GFI? I have done carbon buildup maintenance and so far 100k miles after, it feels perfect. I'm starting to accept I would have to sell this sorento eventually. (G4KJ)
@@RafaelPernia carbon buildup is the main issue and if you are late on one or 2 oil changes ive seen damage occur they can do 100k easily yes but alot ive seen haven't made it past 80k
I love your channel, I was a Mechanic in the 1980s, wish we had social media back then. Thank you for your time in making these videos. I hope you , your family and your crew have a wonderful holidays.
The wife's 2012 Tuscon had lower end rod knock. Took 4 months to get it back and they covered the rental car. Was at 95K, oil was clean (I do my own oil changes religiously) and didn't have receipts other than possibly what Autozone might have. Overall, I was very pleased at how they honored the warranty. Was on a trip when it happened, and due to the time of night, one of the employees took us to an airport to catch the rental car company 10 minutes before it closed. They knew they couldn't fool me, as I diagnosed it for them. It was making a LOT of noise! Told the wife she's lucky... 5K before the engine warranty ran out, and now she has an extended warranty.
Thank you so much for this wonderful teardown. One of my family members had a Kia which probably did have this engine. I do not know the entire story but I think the engine on that vehicle failed catastrophically. I believe the relative kept up all required services but I must ask about that in more detail. This video is really helpful to me in understanding what might have happened to the other person's vehicle. Thank you so much for giving us the water pump skit! I love it! I especially like the heartbroken look on the guy's face as he knelt over the broken pump.
I work on these cars everyday. No matter how good the 2.4s are taken care of, they always burn oil. And yes Eric is absolutely correct, we have engine cars that have been waiting for months. It is virtually impossible to get these engines in.
Quick edit: Hyundai only approves engines if they burn more than 1 qt. of oil every 1000 miles.
My aún has a 2017 2.4 sorento.... it doesnt consume any oil at all
Waiting for months? Can't get the engines? Best news I've heard about these p.o.s. in awhile.
Hopefully these waiting for the next 4 piston granade people will get some religion and move on to a more reliable brand.
Lol, I have a 2009 Kia Rondo with the 2.4 Theta engine and it's never used any oil between 5,000 mile oil changes with 170,000 miles on the clock. That engine he tore down was not a Theta 2 engine as it wasn't direct injection.
@@vegasfordguy Hyundai produced a non GDI Theta 2 engine prior to converting cars to GDI.
My understanding it was only the GDI engines that had the problems (as they changed production methods for the GDI engines). I have a early 2009 Hyundai Sonata with a non GDI engine that has over 300,000 miles on it and it does not burn any more oil than when it was new and runs great. I have used Mobile 1 since about 5000 miles.
My understanding it was only the GDI engines that had the problems (as they changed production methods for the GDI engines). I have a early 2009 Hyundai Sonata with a non GDI Theta II engine that has over 300,000 miles on it and it does not burn any more oil than when it was new and runs great. I have used Mobile 1 since about 5000 miles. Note that internet research shows that the GDI Theta II engines were used in last few months of 2009 Hyundai Sonata production.
I know several other people with non-GDI Theta II engines who also have tons of miles with no or very little oil consumption (not everyone I know uses synthetic oil).
That rod almost cut the block in half. Impressive ! Thanks for the bonus teardown, happy Thanksgiving, Eric !
Wife had a '14 Kia 2.0 turbo chuck a rod at 80k. #3 oil galley hadnt been machined right. They did give her an unlimited mile warranty but she traded it.
Happy thanksgiving to you and all the other gear heads watching. My dad just sold his crown vic with 385k miles and it still ran pretty good but was rusting out in the rear end. It would be really cool to see more high mile stuff and how they wear over time. Thanks for these, i want to do this for a living now.
Dude you're a star! Happy Thanksgiving from the UK! Really annoys me when these bad engines get such an easy ride in the market when I remember the flak Rover took over the K series, which was mainly to do with BMW getting greedy.
Excellent show of tear-down. I have the Hyundai 3.5L which is running ok at 160K miles and I hope it goes much more. After seeing your teardown and reading some comments, I would never want to own a Theta 2.4. Thank you.
My aunt has a 2017 kia sorento with the 2.4 engine. Has been very reliable. Another problem common on these (specially the 2.0) before 2016 are notorious from suffering oil starvation because of a garbage design oil pump, that has plastic gears and a tiny pickup tube). Most issues are found in engines made in hyunday/kia factory in alabama between 2011 and 2016.
Thanks Eric! My mother loaned me her 2013 Sonata a couple years ago. The engine let go while I was doing some...ahem...mildly spirited driving around town. It took the local Hyundai dealership 8 months to get a replacement engine. The good news, is they gave her a free loaner car for that whole time XD
They don't mind; the stealership gets to mark the vehicle as sold as soon as it enters their service loaner fleet.
I've got the same non DI engine in my 2012 Tuscon. 221k on it. Burns a quart between the 5k mile oil changes and sounds like a 3 cyl. Kubota on cold start, but she's still running strong. Gets quiet after it warms up. And it sees WOT multiple times a day. I was hoping to bring it up to you Eric for a tear down once she quits, but I hope to get a lot more miles out of it first.
That's actually really good. Hyundai/Kia consider a quart of oil every 1k miles "normal".
@@scott8919 No they don't lol
Sell it to me, i shall Uber it
so when its at 5,000 miles you have put 5 new quarts in it?! so you are putting in 10 quarts even 5,000 miles!
@@scott8919
Nice engine teardown ,a proper full chains engine (no wet rubber belt mumbo jumbo) , the dual oil pump /balance cartdrige was amazing . Amazed with that has failed . Thanks , and Happy Thanks Giving
That is your best water pump bit to date. Well played and hope you and your family have a great Thanksgiving!
There was a point and time where the Hyundai dealer by my work had rows and rows of these engines outside of the parts shipping door. Both cores and new engines. It was wild to look at.
Love the bonus Thanksgiving teardown! Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
I used the ATS chemical 505 cro oil system treatment in my 2014 Hyundai sonata 2.4L. As you know these cars are notorious for burning oil out the exhaust in the form of blue smoke. Since I did the treatment and changed my oil, my car went from 23-24 mpg to 28 mpg. I am now 800 miles into the fresh full synthetic oil change since the oil system treatment. I check the oil dipstick constantly. It has been 800 miles of driving and I have burnt no oil. I still have the same level on the dipstick, a smidge over the F dot on the dipstick. Before the oil system treatment, I was consuming at least a quart by this point, now I' am consuming no oil. I also experimented on my 2010 Hyundai accent gs with 176000 miles on it. It has burnt oil ever since I can remember, to the point where I had to add a few quarts between oil changes. I added 4 oz of marvel mystery oil to the crankcase and drove it for 200 miles and then changed the oil and filter. I have now clocked 700 miles since the oil change and the dipstick shows that it's still a bit above the F dot on the dipstick as well. I hope this information can help other people.
We are thankful for you as well Eric. Your videos are very entertaining. Hope you had a great Thanksgiving!
Happy Thanksgiving man! I absolutely love your water pump skits; i swear they cure my depression. lol.
Also, absolute long shot, I'd love to see a tear down on an Subaru EA81 or EA82, had terrible luck out of those motors, there has to be at least one.
EDIT: didn't specify make of engine.
Have had an EA81 in the front of a microlight for 16 years, 356 hours, without any issues. Trust it 100%.
This autopsy was brutal. We really are here for the carnage.
Hope everyone in the US enjoyed Thanksgiving.
Hey thanks for the extra video! Appreciate it! I love watching the tear downs, brutal or not so brutal...It's always a learning experience and thank you for the time you put into these vids. I'm still trying to figure out the fascination with the chains tho lol. ;)
Happy thanksgiving Eric. Thanks for the midweek teardown
Global engines have landed in the Ford, Chevy, Chrysler as well as Hyundai / Kia line ups and probably nearly all Builders. Bad oil changes and debris left behind at the machine shop process were heavy hitters against the line up. There are even specialty tools for checking piston/ rod end play thru spark plug holes and required for warranty claim if the engine turns over. I enjoy your channel and Thank your for sharing.
Are you talking Global Engine Alliance? If you are, they were a joint venture between Mitsubishi, Chrysler and Hyundai. The issues experienced with Hyundai Theta and Theta 2 do not occur in Mitsubishi engines. Mitsubishi used a modified head design and bumped up the oil pump output. Well maintained Mitsubishi with this engine, will happily go over 500k kms without any issues.
I also haven't heard of Chrysler engines, of this serie, having mechanical issues (plenty of electrical gremlins).
I've had at least 8 customers come back to me to request their oil change history invoices so Kia / Hyundai would replace their engine under warranty. Quite surprised that they all got replaced for free since some of them were over five years old.
Had mine replaced for free @ 5 years and 110k!
you are right I just got 2015 Kia sportage with only 13363 ks on the clock its like new it came with 3 year warranty. from what I read it was the Korean made motor plant that had the engine bearing problem .motors built between 2011-2016 @@phillipbanes5484
My sister-in-law got a new engine for her Santa Fe - just 1000 miles out of warranty. Approval was basically overnight!
Another fascinating destroyed engine take down video. Thanks and more importantly, Happy Thanksgiving to you and your fam.
I don't know how I missed this one when it came out, But, Thank you for your dedication to your fan base.
I replaced one of these engines in a customer's vehicle. It had 60,000 miles on and had the oil changed every 3000 miles and had no oil consumption. It was locked up solid. What a shame, the customer tried their best to maintain it and it still failed.
A lot of them do that. My wife's 3.3L V6 on her 2017 Santa Fe did this. Oil was changed on time. Engine eats the oil and then starts to knock when you rev it too high. We had a warranty so we got a new engine after 5 months of waiting.
Did they demand oil change receipts?
@@ethanhoff7772 for me no. They just checked to make sure the engine wasn't full of sludge.
I love my '17 optima. 80k and not a single issue. The perfect appliance vehicle. With the lifetime engine warranty, I'll probably keep it another ten years.
I very much doubt if you'll get another five years let alone ten. But there's always the exceptions. Hopefully it keeps up, but 80,000 isn't really very much, whether in miles or kilometres. Time will tell
I would be very timid on taking it on a trip too far from home.
Thanks for the thanksgiving surprise! I hope you and your family have a wonderful thanksgiving!
I've discovered your channel in the last few days and just wanted to post saying so far I enjoy it. Keep up the good work 😊
Another great episode Eric!!; My guess is this engine has lubrication issues to the rod bearings... The main bearings probably survived quite well because they are the first bearings to be fed oil, then the oil is sent through the crank to the throws, where the volume & pressure is probably insufficient... I'm also thinking there are 2 oil pumps because 1 pump is for the top-end, and the other pump feeds the bottom-end...The notion of machining chips being lodged inside of the oil passages seem to make sense, because of the isolated damage this engine was subjected to... BTW , The suprano 'Alvin & the chipmunks' voice and the Low pitched 'droid' voice you use are quite funny... The low voice that mentioned the word 'violence' when you were taking the ballancer/oil pumps cartridge aoart; had me rolling, holding my gut when laughing so hard.. 😂
As a hyundai master tech, it comes down to the vehicle being gdi, they run dirty and consume oil , so eventually they just give up
I have a 2014 Hyundai sonata gls 2.4L 110k miles. Did Hyundai ask you for oil change receipts and if so how far back did your oil change receipts go?
We're thankful for you and your fantastic engin teardown videos. Hope you and your family had a very Happy Thanksgiving.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING, Eric, to you and your family. This bonus teardown, beyond anything, beats the blazes out of feetsball and crappy stories from that goofy uncle! Thank you, and I am toasting you with a mug of New Orleans-style coffee! Bill from District X
I daily a 86 Nissan Hardbody that has a 2.4L Z24I. That's a Electro injection dual spark hemi with tappets and NAPZ emission system. I love the engine and have replaced all gaskets and timing components. Its a strange engine to work on and not impossible to find.
Came here to say the same, Nissan's 2.4L SOHC is bullet proof. Wish I still had the Rebello-built motor we ran in a 240sx.
The overall design of that engine looks pretty good, bit of a shame that it's condemned because of a lubrication failure.
Looks like saved bucks on frequent oil changes. ... Aand continued driving when the knock in #3 started occuring, otherwise there would be this discoloration at the crank.
The original Theta I with fuel-injection (2006-2010 Sonata) was more-reliable than the newer ones today.
going over the parts is a real realzation of what is going on. thank you for showing this.
What a wonderful bonus!! Thank you Eric, please have a fantastic Holiday, can't wait for Saturday.
I replaced over 20 of these as my small amount of time as an apprentice and Mechanic at a Kia dealer. 2 of them were the turbo engines, which were funner to put together since it was something different. The earlier Lambda V6 engines were terrible with so much timing chain noise. Gamma 1.6 engines don’t really care about anything other than burning oil at 100k miles.
Had this engine in a 2012 and it failed catestrophically @ 110k... (The noise it made when it failed was *amazing*.) Kia replaced it for free, so we're square. (I know not everyone who had theirs fail got such a good response from Kia... 😢)
Did they demand oil change receipts?
I guess I have an anomaly. I have a 2011 Kia Optima 2.4 GDI Theta motor.
Bought brand new now has 170k. Does not burn oil, compression test last nov has all cylinders at 175 or above.
Checked the 2 small screens(can’t remember the name) on the front either side of the valve covers.
Zero indication of metal filings.
I use synth oil changed every 5k religiously. No metal in oil or filter. I ask for the filter so I can open it up to check myself.
And I don’t drive like a crazy person.
Very happy with the car. Gets 40-45mpg on highway.
We have only had one issue. Battery drain over a few days.
Turned out to be the fuse box under dash on the drivers side.
But we also maintain this car probably better than most people.
Cheers
Happy Thanksgiving from Las Vegas everyone! Among other things, I'm thankful for the bonus show!
I think I read that these had issues with machining debris being left in the block and eventually blocking oil passages. That accounts for the inconsistent quality/lifespan.
Supposedly crank electrochemical deburring according to the articles I read just now. With their theft problems this has to be causing them huge sales issues.
@@cageordie Yes, and destroying resale value as well.
Yep. Got mine swapped for free @ 110k.
Did they make you provide oil change receipts and how many?
Eric, you have truly become a skilled dipstick tube remover. Well done.
The water pump as well
A bonus teardown for Thanksgiving.....Thank you, Eric!!!! You rock!
The “This looks really nice” followed by the yeet across the shop 😂 gets me every time
They wear out and burn oil, they run out of oil, they blow up, then Hyundai/Kia tells you it's your fault because you ran it out of oil.
If your coolant leaked from a weak hose from the factory, ran out of coolant, then overheated the engine, they would ignore the fact their hoses sucked and say "we're not covering a head gasket because you ran it without coolant." It's such a pathetic way to spin a problem owners shouldn't have to worry about.
I don't believe this failure could be from machining shavings left behind, as many commenters seem to suggest.
The oil goes through the main bearings before any of the rods, and would therefore have the same damage if that was the case.
Something else is going on.
Going 20,000km without a oil change is generally not going to work out.
@@johnsnow1355 As a dealership employee, I've experienced literally a couple dozen instances where we did the maintenance by the book and the engine still failed.
@@iadr the best thing about the recall is the bearing clearance tool. That thing would be gold for checking out used engines so u know if the bearings are toast before purchasing
It ate all the oil. These engines love to eat oil and they don't tell you they are low on oil and lock up or go kaboom.
I had one seize on a road test with zero warning whatsoever. I agree
I have a 2017 Optima EX with 45,000 miles. It runs great. It has the 6 peed auto that you can shift manually. One thing I noticed immediately after buying the car 3 years ago was if you drive it iwith the trans in D its horrible. The software shift points in D are ridiculous. It will up-shift from a light almost immediately to a higher gear leaving you driving slowly in high gear at say 35 miles an hour. if you need to accelerate from there pressing on the gas gently does not elegantly downshift you to a lower gear no no no all it does is try to accelerate in the high gear its in and now your severely lugging the engine with its companion vibration. You have to really kick it to downshift in D. I would imagine driving the life of the car like this constantly lugging the engine would probably damage the engine alone and sure will not help on top of the Theta II issues to begin with. Since those first days trying to drive in D I gave up and since then always shift manually and the trans loves it its perfect and alot of fun. Very very smooth and responsive trans. Its a fun car to drive pretty quick in Sport mode very comfortable great ac great electronics and responsive handling great styling.
Shame its got a shit engine.
Happy Thanksgiving Eric. I am thankful for this bonus episode.
According to Wikipedia the suspected issue with these engines is bearings that wear out too quickly. This teardown would seem to back that up given the state of the con-rod bearings out of this engine.
It also looks like this engine wasn't particularly badly cared for. Just wasn't built to last.
Thing is, the bearings should not wear in a properly oiled hydrodynamic bearing. (Other than initial cold start.) This indicates to me there is some type of oiling issue, whether that be too much clearance on the mains which robs the rods of oil volume (thus pressure), or maybe the ports from the mains to the rods aren't big enough or something.
@@DavidD-qr2vn or detonation.
KIA = Disposable.
My manager has a 2013 Kia Forte and I'm pretty sure it has this engine, he brought it into the dealership for a fire recall warranty, and not into 3 hours for the drive home and it starts knocking so he calls the dealership and they put a new engine in for him.
I've always wondered what the dealership did during the fire recall that could've caused an engine failure.
No clue, the fire recall is as simple as changing a fuse in the fusebox
I bought a 2016 kia sportage with 19k miles on with the 2.4 GDI engine. It was the nicest car I had owned. I loved the car and changed the oil every 5k. At around 110k it started using 1quart every 500miles. The motor blew at 135k despite me taking it to a mechanic and having the engine tuned. They have a class action against them about that 2.4 GDI engine. However Kia told me I was not elgiable for a free engine because I didnt do the recalls. However as a second owner I got no recalls. If you are a person like myself that drives a car until the wheels fall off a Kia/Hyaundai may not be for you. I typically put 180-220k on a car. I think if you trade them in at 100k you should be ok if you dont mind the down time of Kia changing your engine out. Maybe have a second vehicle to drive to work with while Kia is replacing your blow engine. I myself replace the sportage with a brand know for reliabilty because I dont have time or money for blow engines.
Thank You Eric…Happy and Blessed Thanksgiving to you and your family