Hyundai oil consumption and gasoline contamination problem solved
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2024
- www.blackstone-labs.com/
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Most newer cars use Gasoline Direct Injection. GDI engines spray fuel directly into the cylinder on the compression stroke. Theoretically, this can give you better fuel economy and cleaner emissions. In reality, it just causes problems.
Normal port fuel injected cars spray fuel into the intake manifold or cylinder head, just behind the intake valve at 60psi of pressure. GDI systems spray directly into the cylinder at 2,000psi. This requires a second fuel pump, that is driven by the camshaft. The high pressure fuel pump in the Tucson is mounted to the valve cover and can leak gas directly into the oil.
When the engine oil has gas in it, the viscosity goes down and it can't protect the engine from wear. Oil must be less than 2% gas. If you drive with bad oil, the engine will wear out prematurely, and start burning oil, it can knock, or throw a rod.
GDI engines can also contaminate the oil with gas through blowby. Some of the high pressure fuel spray can run down the cylinders and get into the oil that way. Compared to older port fuel injected cars that get zero fuel contamination in the oil, newer cars are very bad.
When everything is functioning correctly in my 1.6 T-GDI Gamma engine, my oil changes must be limited to 3,000 miles due to fuel contamination in the oil. Hyundai recommends 5,000 miles oil changes. If I follow manufacturer's service recommendations, I will spend 40% of the time driving on bad oil.
Hyundai is currently in a class action lawsuit for oil consumption for the following cars:
2012-2020 Hyundai Elantra
2009-2018 Hyundai Genesis Coupe
2019-2021 Hyundai Kona
2020-2021 Hyundai Palisade
2010-2012 and 2015-2021 Hyundai Santa Fe
2009-2010 and 2015-2021 Hyundai Sonata
2011-2021 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid
2010-2013 and 2015-2021 Hyundai Tucson
2011-2021 Hyundai Veloster
2020-2021 Hyundai Venue
2010-2021 Kia Forte
2017-2020 Kia Niro
2011-2020 Kia Optima and Optima Hybrid
2012-2021 Kia Rio
2011-2020 Kia Sorento
2012-2021 Kia Soul
2011-2020 Kia Sportage
2018-2021 Kia Stinger
2022 Kia K5
Based on my oil test results from Blackstone Labs, I believe the oil burning, knocking, and catastrophic engine failures happening in this lawsuit are caused by excessive engine wear from driving with oil that is contaminated with gas.
0:00 intro
0:19 1.6 liter Turbo GDI engine
0:59 Oil testing
1:40 first oil test (failure)
3:06 GDI gas in oil contamination from blowby
3:36 oil test after cleaning PCV valve (fail)
4:00 dealer replaced high pressure fuel pump
5:15 ABS fuse and door latch recalls
5:48 GDI cleaning service
7:07 oil test after fix - 3,000 mile oil changes
7:33 oil test 4
8:06 Hyundai recommends you drive on bad oil
9:12 Excessive oil consumption class action lawsuit
11:23 conclusion - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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Excellent video. This is the best explanation I have found so far to address why Hyundai's engines are breaking down so fast from high oil consumption. I also appreciate the idea to send your oil into the lab for analysis especially when these dealerships are denying warranty claims and making consumers pay out of pocket for these expensive oil consumption tests.
Thanks for watching! Yes, test your oil, gather your own data. The dealer and the manufacturer will do what's best for them, and that may not be the same as doing what's right for you. An oil test from Blackstone labs is only $35 and will tell you a lot about your engine.
I'm not sure what their "consumption test" is but you can do that yourself for free. Fill the oil to the correct level on the dipstick. Drive the car. Check the oil. Top off the oil if needed. Look at the bottle and see how much oil it took. Duh.
@@LabCoatPaulGreat video! Do you think having your own test results will positively affect a case with Hyundai when they’re doing their own oil consumption process? I guess my real question is- what do you do with the results given?
The problem with this is people don't realize changing oil on turbo engines is more critical and also many are not changing the pcv valve. My two Elantra 2.0 went 240000miles but I have been working as a mechanic since college since 2009 and I noticed all this on the new engine design changes make maintenance more critical. Look at spark plugs most modern vehicles only do 30000-40000miles on platinum and iridium once marketed as 100000miles on port injected engine's.
Currently own a 2017 Santa Fe Sport AWD. My engine failed on me regardless of following the recommended services for the car. I frequented the dealership for most of my engine maintenance and when my engine seized on me, they declined to repair or replace my engine under the lifetime warranty due to “maintenance neglect”. I fought and appealed the decision reached by Hyundai as hard as I could, and they still declined repairs. They most certainly did not do much in helping me prevent this situation when I frequently visited for standard mileage maintenance. I was furious. Still owing about a years worth of payments on the car I was left with a car that was no longer running. After exploring my options I found it best to rebuild the engine that was currently in my car. And despite thoroughly going over the common issues and doing my absolute best to prevent them, it is futile. My oil consumption is ridiculous burning about 1 quart every 1000 miles after having replaced many components on the engine to prevent this. I received another faulty knock sensor from Hyundai and ended up putting a 3rd knock sensor (aftermarket this time) in 6 months. And to make things worse, I’m now experiencing another common issue with the AWD feature of the vehicle due to soft alloy parts in the transmission that power the rear wheels. I’m exhausted by this mess. And wish I would have taken the loss and invested in a new car to the best of my abilities as like you, I couldn’t afford to buy a new car without acquiring negative equity by quite a bit. I wish I could burn the thing to the ground in all honesty. Regardless, I’ve already had the engine rebuilt and have dug myself into a ditch fearing that trading it in will not only give me ridiculous payments on a new vehicle but also a loss of the time and money I spent on the rebuild. One things is for certain though. I learned an important lesson about doing my research on specific engines that are experiencing similar issues and will be absolutely certain to never invest in a car that burns oil excessively or in a car manufactured with engines that are known to have similar problems. It’s a shame I had to go through all of this to learn. But I guess that’s just a part of life. Making mistakes.
Sorry to hear you had such horrible problems with your Hyundai. You had the worst case scenario outlined in the class action lawsuit. Perhaps you can look in to that and get some money back for having to pay for engine repairs.
Just curious, how many miles did you have on your Santa Fe when the engine broke, and how many miles do you have now?
Somebody commented on this video that Hyundai is the Chinese scooter of cars. This is true.
I'm positive you could have found multiple attorneys willing to sue Hyundai on contingency for you. Probably still can.
My 2019 sonata start consuming oil at 75k. Now using about 1 extra quart per thousand miles. I change oil every 4 k. The oil looks terrible when i change it.
I’d work on a plan to replace the car ASAP. Even rebuilt it probably won’t last and you’ll be needing an engine again. I’d buy a used Toyota, Honda or Mazda and rest easy.
😅 It's because it was designed to meet EPA requirements. It wasn't designed to live very long. You should have went to a proper engine manufacturer and ask them what type of tolerance is you can run instead of going off of manufacturer's tolerances. 😅 And then taken it to a machine shop and had it set up to run those tolerances.
All of the manufacturers are doing. This is not just Hyundai. Most of the time they'll put a low volume low friction oil pump in instead of a proper oil pump. If it's driven off the crank, they'll put the tolerances really really loose which will result in more vibration and steady eating of the engine bearings instead of long engine life. 😅
Pretty much anywhere, there's parasitic drag.
I'm a Honda technician. We have the same problem with the L15B7/L that's used on the Civic, Accord, and CR-V. They reek of fuel when you change the oil most of the time and they come out thin. We have a TSB about it, but there's not really anything you can do but change the oil sooner to prevent premature wear. Another thing that hurts this cars is being driven only occasionally or being driven softly. Giving your car an Italian tune up is essential for GDI health. Also helps minimize carbon deposits on the intake valves, another big problem with it.
All direct injection engines are more prone to oil dilution than port injected cars and they're more likely to burn oil.
With any GDI car, I never recommend going past 5000 miles between oil changes under any circumstances. 4000 if turbocharged. I did 4000 mile intervals in my old 2009 Mazdaspeed 3.
I have a 2015 Honda Fit myself. I've changed the oil every 3000 miles since I got it and I have 0 noticeable oil consumption or premature wear. My mom also has a 2015 CR-V with the K24W9 engine also with direct injection. I use the same schedule on her car and while hers does burn a bit of oil, it's maybe 1 quart every 4-5000 miles, not that much for a modern car (they all burn a bit of oil nowadays).
TL;DR I find that the easiest solution long term is to use shorter oil change intervals. Direct injected engines need MORE frequent oil changes, not less. Doubly so if they have a turbo. Those are very sensitive to oil quality and are quite expensive to replace if they fail. Oil is much cheaper. To give an idea, a turbocharger failed on a 2017 CR-V at the dealership I work at. The cost for us to replace it was $4000.
Also clean and/or change your PCV valve often. It usually gets overlooked. It will also keep oil leaks to a minimum. It may also help to run a catch can.
Honda/Toyota with port injection last forever. The newer GDI/Port still need shorter engine oil changes
Interesting. I was going to try and get a 2023 civic to replace my shitbox 2018 Tucson. You're saying I'd have the same issues with excessive oil consumption?
@@theindooroutdoorsman The base 2.0 won't since it still uses port injection.
@@SkylineFTW97 Good. I thought it was back to the drawing board for what car to change to.
@@theindooroutdoorsman Even if you did get the 1.5, you'd be fine if you did the 3000 mile oil changes.
Very good presentation and pictorial presentation on the insanity of GDI. I drive a 2.2L HHR. It continues to average 24 mpg in town and 30+ mpg on the road as it approaches 120K miles. Oil consumption is negligible. For trips and Sunday driving we also have a 2002 MBZ E320. It continues to average 22 mpg in town and 30+ mpg on the road. LIkewise the oil consumption is negligible as it approaches 100K miles. Both cars have multi port injection and have never failed an annual emissions inspection. Not all "modern" cars burn a lot of oil...just the ones with GDI. The industry should be allowed to go back to MPI.
It's bizarre how I came to this channel watching you rebuild Chinese scooters but now I know why my Hyundai accent is always low on oil.
Your video has been the best I found which goes into detail as well as problems. Thank you very much
I own a 2014 Santa Fe sport. I never realized there was an issue because I faithfully had the dealer change my oil every 3000 miles with regular oil. About a year ago I tried the synthetic oil which extended the internal for my oil change. I began to notice that the car would occasionally not start up immediately which it has never done. I decided to check the oil and there was nothing on the dip stick. I immediately added oil to bring it up to full but have had the same issue again after another synthetic oil change. After watching this video I know now I cannot trust the normal oil change frequency nor the quality of the oil. I will try to get back to a 3000 mile interval but I'm not hopeful. I will increase the frequency based on oil level but never more than 3000 miles. Thank you so much for your diligence an extremely detailed and information.
Excellent video & explanation of the issues with these cars.
Well you definitely hit the nail on the head with this one. I own a hyundai ix35 here in Australia with the 2 liter Theta engine, which is basically an earlier tucson and yes it burns oill and I am constantly checking the quantity and quality of the oil. For now its running ok but as you said we are all driving ticking time bombs. Very well explained video and thanks for the valuable information.
Oil contamination, small rod bearings, insufficient oil flow to rod bearings, metal shavings in crankshaft oil passages that restrict/block oil flow, low speed pre-ignition that hammers the rod bearings, stuck rings, piston slap, poor pcv valve flow and a few other problems I have probably forgotten or haven't come across yet. The number of problems with this engine is staggering. A lot of these problems can be managed by a knowledgeable and motivated owner, while some cannot. But for the average owner, these engines are a ticking time bomb.
I agree. My plan is to change my oil every 3K miles and send oil to the lab every other oil change to see if any new problems pop up. I should be able to squeeze 100K miles out of it if I watch the ticking time bomb closely.
@@LabCoatPaulthat's what I'm doing on my '19 sonata (2.4L theta II). Bought it new, now drinking oil at 74K at around 1 qt per 1200. BL, I should get 100K at the rate I'm driving, and after that it doesn't owe me anything. I didn't overpay for it, to wit I got it for well under MSRP which I'm still kinda surprised in hindsight they let it go for that in 2019 (ah the good ol days before the Fed stole our future lives with M2 printing) which is why I went with a sonata over some overpriced Honda (mazda outright got out of the full size sedan business altogether so there went that).
I am very satisfied with the fuel economy, ride comfort and interior dimensions of my sonata. The frame, suspension, transmission (it did get a software flash when I replaced the fuel pump under warranty and got the bearing knock software subroutine flashed, only work visit required in 75K) and electrics have been problem free, which keeps the dispatch rate high, which is the only thing I care about in a car (they're commodities to me, I'm not a car enthusiast).
To wit, I don't need to run oil analysis when I know it's a problem nobody is going to fix. Catch can potato this late in the engine life is also throwing good money after bad. This engine is on palliative care at this point. I'm currently having to add oil in between oil changes given the oil consumption doesn't let me get to a normal 5K interval, so in a way it's like doing oil changes every 2K miles.
@@GonzoT38 The Honda Accord has the same problem now. The L15B7 does the exact same thing and the K20C2 probably does to a lesser extent. Only way to go NA anymore is to get the hybrid. I miss the J35 in those cars. Our shop foreman got a 2017 V6 touring, the last year you could buy a V6 one. They just have fewer problems with normal maintenance (they do have timing belts, but a Honda J series timing belt is one of the easiest timing belts to do on a modern engine. It's 100% a DIY friendly job and you can do it in just 3 or so hours once you know what you're doing)
Cool and thorough, Good job Paul
Great info I’m having this same issue with my 2017 Santa Fe .
Love your work mate
This was a very well done video. Excellent presentation and information. Thank you very much.
I drove my 2017 Kia Soul 1.6 turbo for 137,000 miles without a single problem ever. Changed oil every 5k and used top Shell or Chevron gas only, no exceptions. And i drove it hard.
That's the key, I think. Drive it hard to get the sooth out
I have a 2018 Santa Fe Sport with 76k miles on it, having this exact issue. I have only added 22k miles to it the three years I have owned it and have never gone beyond 5,000 miles on an oil change. Always full synthetic. Waiting to hear now if they will replace my engine under their warranty. This is such a sucky situation. No way my car should be burning oil at the rate it has been. I’ll never touch any type of Hyundai or Kia again in my life.
I’m going through the same thing right now. I won’t go through the whole thing, but it got towed in from my house when I check in the morning I had no oil I it . I called the dealer immediately and had it towed into them. Absolutely no lights were on nothing just on a whim. I figured I’m going to check the oil and that’s what I found. I was shocked and now I’m researching the hell out of this.
I’m gonna get mine fixed as best as I can. They should pay for a new engine and I’m researching everything and I’m trading the son of a bitch in as fast as I can for a Toyota
I"m 93,000 for my 2019 hyundai tuscon. Just luckey to catch my oil bone dry 2x! with light coming on for air in tires! turns out both times absolutely zero oil in the car! So far I haven't blow my engine. Bought 2 cases oil at costco and dealer told me i'm burning 1 quart every 1,000 miles! I was planning on driving this car another 50,000-60,000 miles! Not sure what is going to happen but on 12/4 dealer has opening to have the car for full day. They said they would try to get a new engine but no promises! I priced new engines sounds like around 8K.
Thanks Paul! Having the same issues with my 2015 hyundai sonata sport 2.4 liter gdi... ugh this thing burns oil like nobody's business! Of course it just passed 100000 miles as well when this all started happening thanks alot hyundai. They said they couldn't do anything about it and to just keep adding oil. I'll be checking out those class action lawsuits you mentioned. Stay safe out there!
Love the scooter videos, btw!
Thanks!
Great video! Thanks!
Super helpful. Thanks!
Great video
1999 toyota rav4 front suspension shot. Checking out your videos on repairs and parts replacement.
Yep
Just purchased mine 7 months ago. At around 3000 the car started running ruff. Checked the oil and it had a strong Gas smell. It now has over 120K miles on the engine and it isn't using any oil.but i dont go pass 3000 miles anymore. Hope to get the Blackstone analyses done soon.
Thanks for watching! I'm curious to see what the lab says about your oil. If you test your oil, please comment and let me know how much fuel contamination you had and how many miles were on the oil.
Excellente video
I have a 2018 Soul with the turbo 1.6L. It has 94000 miles on it and doesn’t have these problems. I drive 4000 miles between oil changes,mostly highway. This is my third Kia and no problems of any kind.
Up here in Winnipeg Canada. My 2013 accent leaks and I really hope my 2023 santa fe is not leaking.
Loved your video.
What is your opinion on installing an oil catch can on the Hyundai 2.4 engine??
I think it's a great idea! It will help keep the intake valves clean. It probably won't help with oil contamination or consumption.
I don't blame hardworking folks who dare NOT touch any Kia or Hyundai vehicle. With the massive bill they shouldered from the engine failure fiasco plus other major safety recalls, guess who will foot the bill eventually?
Nice Video.
However, I know that the user manual does not just instruct the owner to change the oil every 5,000 miles.
There are conditions stated in the user manual that indicates when to change the engine oil.
For example, if you mostly do short trips, the user manual suggests that you change the oil much earlier than 5,000 miles (around 3,500 miles).
You can find this information under the "Maintenance Under Severe Usage Conditions" section of the user manual. (Note that this differs from what is specified under the "Normal Maintenance Schedule" section).
That's true. Most people actually have severe usage conditions when they drive mostly in town.
@@LabCoatPaul NOT TRUE! Short trips are considered "severe" because the oil TEMPERATURE doesn't reach high enough to dissipate the condensation (water) in the oil which causes sludge. Driving in town or highway long enough for oil temp to reach normal (about 10miles) WITHOUT shutting the engine off is NOT severe use. Also, idling in cold weather to warm up the engine is BAD because the engine, under no load warms up a LOT slower than DRIVING the car (SLOWLY) after starting it. The condensation remains in the crankcase a LOT longer with the car idling! And don't forget about TOWING (severe use)!
2017 1.6T here as well, same color. It started burning oil around 100k miles, perfect timing since thats the warranty! It needs about 0.75 quarts every 1000 miles. Unlike my lexus gx470 with 233k miles which has new looking oil after 7000 miles and no addition needed, the Hyundai oil is black after 500 miles. I do the CRC intake cleaning every oil change and have tried the Castrol Edge GDI oil, which is expensive. Hasn't helped. I may go to cheaper Mobil 1 or Valvoline and just change every 3k miles instead of 5k.
were you taking lots of short trips without warming the oil completely?
Needless to say, I have learned a lot. Thank you unfortunately be both me and my partner have Hundaes I have a Senada and my partner has a Tucson. Mine is burning about 2 quarts every thousand miles.
Bg epr and go with a Lucas additive
Get rid of them if you can as fast as you can. That’s what I’m gonna do. I’m having problems to.
@@jackielheureux3229 what kinda
I'd be curious to know whether this was run on higher octane fuel if the results would differ. These motors are only reccomended to run 91 or above, but it would be interesting to see if a 95-98 octane would produce different results for these tests.
2Gr -fks has a serious oil leak problem where the head, block and timing cover seals intersect. Generally get larger after 100,000k. As it ages it drips oill onto a smokey exhaust.
Fixing it usually is an engine R/R and cover reseal. Figure $4000.
One thing i did not recall you mentioning is what your driving style is and the average length of your trips. Short trips often do not allow the oil in your crankcase to reach operating temperature long enough to help evaporate any excess fuel and moisture which are usually blowing by the rings during a cold engine startup.
It's short trips only for me, so my oil gets contaminated very quickly.
2011-2019 H&K GDI engines soak with unburnt gasoline the combustion chamber at each cold start (summer/winter). This is what dilutes the oil and causes these engines to seize. From 2020 H&K added port injector and the oil dilution is no longer a problem.
The reason for this gasoline soaking is to prevent carbon buildup. THERE IS a way to stop this gasoline soaking, but then you will get carbon build up.
Sounds like a KIA / Hyundai alright. To be fair.. we have a 2020 RAV4 and it’s the biggest piece we’ve ever owned. It’s been to the shop 6 times for various issues most of them related to the Auto start stop feature causing electrical problems AND the roof rails leaking into the interior of the vehicle. And it has less than 15K miles. Meanwhile my Chevy Bolt (seriously a GM product) has yet to have any issues. Oh well besides the battery that may burn the house down. I guess I’ll stick with my Chinese Scooters instead. ❤
Quality control? hahaha no it's customer service problem now! It's too bad Toyota decided to make the RAV4 junky. Some manufacturers (Hyundai for sure) recommend parking the car in the street in case it catches on fire.
And that crazy nut of a CEO at GM is cutting the Bolt! 95% of GM's EV business, and their cutting it to add to their EV truck line - including the Hummer. Since the beginning of the year, GM has sold one (yes 1) Hummer EV.
@@LabCoatPaul AND, away from structures.......like YOUR HOUSE!
Paul, thx for the help. I have a santa fe 2016 that is burning oil. 78K miles. what oil wait would you recommend to use such as 10w 30 or ??
Also since burning oil does it make send to go to regular oil if changing every 3K vs synthetic every 5K? Curious what your take would be on just using the regular oil?
Hyundai dealer want me to spend $450 for a decarb? curious if you think that is worth doing or changing the PVC value is worth doing or will either make a difference? Sounds like you just have to keep changing the oil about every 3K or keep topping off till 5K. Any other ideas how to curb the oil consumption? Thx Paul M.
Unfortunately, once you have oil consumption, the damage is already done. Change your oil and send a sample to Blackstone labs. Follow the lab's recommendations on oil change interval.
I recommend using whatever oil viscosity is written on the oil fill cap. On my Tucson it's 5W-30. Since you won't benefit from the longer life of synthetic oil, you might as well use the cheapest stuff you can find (as long as it has the correct SAE rating for your car). If your car has a turbo, it may still be better to use synthetic oil.
As for the GDI carbon cleaning: yes, do it. clean intake valves are very important for the engine to run right.
$450 is not the right price for GDI cleaning. Did they recommend a service package that includes other things?
I recently paid $671 for my 30K mile service, but it included:
oil change, transmission flush, coolant flush, fuel induction cleaning (GDI cleaning), tire rotation, brake fluid flush, and inspect a bunch of stuff.
They didn't give me a labor breakdown for the GDI service, but the chemicals were $39. I'm guessing the GDI service alone is around $100 total.
And yes, clean the PCV valve. it's easy. You can do it yourself.
Thanks for sharing your findings.
Could one of the consequences of driving one of these vehicles (I have a 2014 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport with the Theta II engine, another of Hyundai's gasoline direct engines) lead to pitting of the pistons and cylinder wall wear? That's the struggle I am currently facing but, since it's not rod bearing failure, it's not covered by Hyundai's extended warranty. I certainly was not changing my oil ever 1,000 miles, so who knows how long I may have been operating it with potentially contaminated oil 😔 Thanks again.
Also, do we have the same problem with lambda II motors ? I have a 2015 3.3 l lambda II. Everything works well but just to prevent something… thanks
Yes, the GDI version of the Lambda 2 engine was introduced in 2011. Most GDI engines have a tendency to get gas in the oil. Test your oil and change it often.
I'm hoping the catch can I put on my 2020 Palisade helps reduce the fuel dilution. I have been changing the oil right around the 3000-3200 mile mark since I bought it and I don't see any loss of oil. I've done one GDI cleaning with the Berryman cleaner so far at around 20,000 miles.
The catch can will keep your intake valves slightly cleaner. I doubt it will have any effect on fuel dilution in the oil. 3,000 mile oil changes are a great idea if your high pressure fuel pump doesn't leak. Send a sample of your oil to Blackstone labs to find out if anything is wrong.
This video is so underrated. I have ordered my oil test kit and im sending it to the lab to see if I have contamination however my car is at 330000 KM lol, its a kia sorento
So next vid is about RAV4 sx6?
I have a 2018 Tucson just started doing this
Sorry to hear that. Test your oil and change it often. That's about all you can do to keep it running as long as possible.
I'm having issues with my tucson 2018 . My mechanic told me the engine is consuming excessive oil. I have done all my maintenance roughly around 3 to 4k miles. I have an appointment this Saturday with the dealership and see what happens .
Ok, so every 3k. Got it, change oil and check pvc regularly. So, do I still need/ should use synthetic oil or hybrid or conventional ok because so frequent? Or? Thank you for doing these
Synthetic oil is recommended for turbocharged engines because it can handle higher temperatures than regular oil and the viscosity will be more consistent. I buy Kirkland brand oil at Costco and it's about 1/2 price compared the auto parts stores. It still meets the same API specifications. Cheaper oil is not worse than expensive oil.
I recommend sending a sample of your oil to Blackstone labs. 3,000 mile oil changes are good IF the high pressure fuel pump isn't leaking. If it leaks like mine did, even the 3,000 mile oil changes will result in a blown engine. That's why you need to test the oil.
i got my santa fe 2017 engine replaced as it was burning lots of oil.
So I own a 2014 Hyundai Accent 5dr with the 1.6 L GDI. I've owned this car from new. No real problems with this car in it's lifetime, aside from effects of driving on crappy roads and rusted out brakes. Always changed the oil twice a year, added fuel injector cleaner to the tank periodically, etc.
I just passed 100k, and it started to burn/consume oil with ferocity - ~1L per 1000 km.
I just changed the PCV valve, and am trying a seafoam treatment on the oil prior to my next oil change.
Your video is a lot to wade through. Is there a fix, other than super frequent oil changes?
It's north of $80 CAD + taxes at the least expensive place I can take it, and that's for conventional oil.
Turbocharged direct injection engines, whether gasoline or diesel, are fuel diluters. That's what they do. The problem can be mitigated by boiling the lighter fuel components out of the crankcase oil by taking frequent extended longer trips at highway speeds. If this is your normal driving routine, then fine. However if you drive predominantly shorter trips, especially in cold weather, a turbo DI engine is not a good choice.
Definitely agree. My 2.4 naturally aspirated is pretty much a road trip vehicle. 67k miles and no oil consumption. Also installed a catch can, works well, mostly moisture bit of oil.
You can put an air/oil separator on the pcv line to reduce valve carbon build-up.
That's a good idea! I bought one, but I haven't installed it yet. I want to do a comparison video to see if the oil separator actually does anything.
My 2 L turbo, (2-13), has a built in oil separator, I did add a catch can a few years ago. It doesn't catch much oil, but I do get sh*tty brown water in it. Better in the can than the back of the valves.
You can also use a "low volatility" oil that generates less oil vapors. Currently the lowest volatility oil on the market is Pennzoil "ultra platinum full synthetic", it's even better for GDI engines than Amsoil!
Then why isn't Hyundai doing this for free? I bet the part cost them almost nothing and probably take the mechanic 30 minutes to do.
how much does the lab cost?
Does the Gamma II engine have the same issues?
Aussie 2020 Seltos GT-Line AWD 1.6l turbo? TIA :)
It probably does. Send a sample of your oil to the lab to see how it's doing.
I have a 2016 kia soul with the 1.6l with 230k miles on it, all I have had to do is change the alternator, do you think doing this will be worth it on so many miles it still seems good to me
Sure, if all you need is an alternator to keep your car going, it's a great idea.
That's why when I bought my twenty twenty one Kia rio. I checked the window sticker under performance, what type of engine?
It's a 1.6 MP I. I did show the salesman that it had to be multi port fuel injection. If it was Gd I would have never bought the car.
It's OK, but it's a maintenance issue later down the road.
Of course Paul bought a Korean Hyundai which is essentially the Chinese scooter version of cars. I appreciate all the hard work you put into your videos. You're the man!
I don't know why everyone says Hyundai is killing it now. 2000s Hyundais are reliable and cheap, but they're not flashy like later ones. Only modern engines of theirs I trust are the 1.8L 4 banger and the 3.3L V6
@@SkylineFTW97 100% agree. The 90s and early 2000s Hyundai used Mitsubishi iron block engines. That's why they were decent. Current trash is sold on that reputation.
@@MirchiBoy a 2001-2006 Elantra is what I would recommend for someone looking for a cheap, reliable, and fuel efficient car if they have less than $3000 to spend. They can be had for under $1500 and parts are common and cheap
I've never thought of it that way. Yes, they are the Chinese scooters of cars! hahaha
@@SkylineFTW97 I had a 96 accent with manual trans that was 15 years old when I bought it and 25 years old when I sold it for $1200 which is no small feat in upstate NY. I've owned toyota's, honda's, nissan's, hyundai/kia's, and a chevy vega. the 96 accent was the best car I ever owned. yes, even the japanese toyota's and honda's need repair. the years you mention were good for hyundai/kia in general.
Excellent video. IMO, engines using GDI should still have some percentage of its fuel charge delivered using port injection, partly to wash all the crud past the intake valve to be burned in the combustion chamber.
The question I have is your driving mix. My thinking is longer duration drives (>30 min) periodically, get oil >>200F, hot enough to evaporate the gasoline from the oil and have it burned after passing through the PCV valve.
Is this a bad assumption?
With the issue of oil dilution due to fuel. Would it also help to go to a thicker oil viscosity?
Only a little bit. Going to 10w-30 is ok, but any thicker than that and the oil won't flow properly through the bearings in the engine.
You need to send a sample of your oil to Blackstone-labs to see how much fuel contamination you have. If they recommend 3,000 mile oil changes, that's ok. If it's lower than that, you probably have a leaking high pressure fuel pump or some other problem.
You need a good oil spec for direct injection engines, the volkswagen approved 504.00 507.00 spec oils are the most stringent oil spec on the market, its not cheap but its the best oil for direct injection. You need low saps formula to help reduce carbon build up on the intake valves
Did you follow Blackstone's instructions for getting a sample properly? IIRC, you're supposed to 1) get the oil good and hot - minimum 15 miles drive before taking the sample and 2) get your simple from the 'middle' of the stream of oil coming from the pan. You show pouring from an intermediate container, and mention in the comments below about most of your driving being < 4 miles, which won't give you the most accurate results (though I guess if you are always doing < 4 miles, it's somewhat more representative of your typical driving conditions... which are not good. You're actually a good use case for electric if you're always doing such short trips).
"Identifies as a two-stroke engine" lmao
Problem is over the long term, this may contaminate the catalytic converter - expensive to replace.
I would never own a car with a turbo on the engine. They are just too problematic.
The cost of your oil analysis would almost pay for a 5 quart jug of Mobil 1 synthetic oil (Walmart ) and a filter from the dealer.
My advice to friends who buy Korean or European cars : Don't keep them past warranty.
My next vehicle will most likely use the Camry hybrid drive train. (Rav4, Vensa, Crown, similar Lexus (probably used)). It has GDI but also has port injection.
No turbos, efficiency tuned, no accessory belts. Electric car with gasoline assist.
No start stop needed. Engine only runs when it is needed (and to warm up).
Short trips can allow moisture and gas to build up in oil.
So im planning on buying one. a 2016 model. Is there a way besides changing oil frequently to prevent an engine from blowing? And what if the engine is starting knocking? What can you do to repair this?
Frequent oil changes are the only way to prevent excessive wear. Change the oil and send a sample to the lab, like I did.
If the high pressure fuel pump leaks, even 3,000 miles is not often enough.
If you have a knock, that engine is already ruined and needs to be replaced. You could get a few more miles out of a knocking engine by running a higher viscosity oil, like 20w-50, but don't do it to an engine that is working normally.
@@LabCoatPaul that's crazy to keep changing oil every 3000 miles tho hahah. There needs to be some kind of fix voor this...
So if the engine in knocking, changing the pistonrings and bearings won't be enough?
I cannot believe this. I have an older BMW I change the oil every 10.000 miles or so and I find that often. Now I want to get a newer car and I need to change is more often hahahah am I dreaming
@@LabCoatPaul if the engine is running without tikking, what kind of oil is good to out in? I live in the Netherlands. In the winter it can get somewhat cold. Around 0 to -10 Celsius and in the summer around 20/30 Celsius (30+ only when there is a serious heat wave)
@@007kwaku Check your owner's manual for oil viscosity recommendations. Mine says use 5W-30 synthetic for cold weather.
@@007kwaku Many modern engines with gasoline direct injection have oil contamination issues. It's true newer engines require more frequent oil changes than older ones.
For example, I sent oil to Blackstone labs from a 1998 Toyota Tacoma with 260,000 miles. The report said normal wear metals, 0 fuel contamination, 6,500 mile oil changes are ok.
10,000 miles oil changes are not good for any engine. Next time you change your oil in the BMW, send a sample to the lab. If you pay extra for the TBN test, they can measure the levels of additives remaining in the oil and give you an oil change interval recommendation.
If an engine doesn't contaminate the oil (like my Hyundai), 6,000 mile oil changes are ok.
What kind of driving were you doing ? Severe service will contaminate the oil much faster as engine doesnt warm up fully to burn off fuel in oil . How long the engine runs after its fully warmed up plays a factor also
My car is definitely severe service. Most of my trips are less than 4 miles.
I have a 2023 tucson xrt and I'm having the same issue in less than 8 months
Wow
I also own 2017 Tucson with 1.6 T-GDi but i live in Europe and here the service interval for oil change is 15000 kilometers/9500 miles... Now after 6 years old/60000miles my engine is burning oil and I was never advised at Hyundai dealership where I did all my service to change oil more often. At last service (3 months ago) I was told that there's almost no oil left in the engine, before I had no clue that this car burns or will burn oil. Now after 3000 miles driven oil level is about 3/4 between low and full on oil stick. A mechanic has adviced me to just add oil when it gets about 1/2 but according to you I should already replace the oil. I don't know what to do with this car, I can't afford a new one currently.
9,500 miles oil change is crazy! If you have a leaking high pressure fuel pump, the last 8,500 miles of that was on bad oil. If the car is working normally, that's 6,500 miles on bad oil. You should never go over 3,000 oil changes in your Hyundai.
Theoretically, if you burn all your oil, and you pour in new oil, you're doing more of an oil rotation... You should still change it every 3,000 miles though. Even if the oil overall is experiencing less use, you're still accumulating gasoline in your oil pan an you need to drain it out.
Step 1: change your oil and send a sample to the lab. They can tell you how much contamination you have and advise you how often to change your oil.
Step 2: keep that oil full. If it burns oil, just keep adding it and don't go over 3,000 mile oil changes.
Your car just identifies as a 2 stroke. (burns oil). No big deal. Keep it full and it will continue to run. The catalytic converter will get plugged eventually.
@@LabCoatPaul I do not know about any labs here testing engine oil. From now on I will change oil every 3000 miles. Do you have any reccomendation what oil to use? Hyundai here uses Valvoline 5w30 full synthetic. Thanks for your reply.
What’s the cost for a high pressure fuel pump? I called Hyundai and they told me $745. Is there anywhere I can get it cheaper? And also they said a PCV valve cost $40. I have a 2016 Hyundai Tucson with 90k miles. My last oil change barely had oil smh. And it was my first time experiencing this. Had the car since 2019 and have been on point with my maintenance. Great video by the way
I got Santa fe 2013 I run it hard all day every day almost over 200,000 run like brand new
Update video? How can you fix this problem?
unfortunately you can't fix oil consumption, you can only prevent it.
I wish I would have seen this video before I got rid of my 2017 Sonata. It was burning an insane amount of oil after 115k miles, I think around 3-4qts every 1k miles. I'm really curious how badly diluted the oil was with fuel after 1k miles, I'd go to add more oil and my dipstick REEKED of fuel. I'll never buy another GDI engine or Hyundai again, I drive a lot and I need something reliable.
I'm sorry that happened to you. What car did you get instead?
The Genesis Coupe last model year was 2016 (3.8 GDI engine). The 2.0T engine was discontinued in 2014. There is no 2017/18 model for the Genesis Coupe. Might want to correct that in you discription.
How come a large part of the Diesel Engines do not have this problem since they also use DI since like forever? Also some newer VAG TSI engines seem to be pretty reliable for up to 200.000 km. I'm thinking quality of the parts and build is to blame also here
Diesel has lubricant qualities. Plus yes , built more robust.
I never skip 3k mile oil change. I don't care what car manufacturers recommend. 3k miles oil change. Oil is cheaper than engine
Not enough in this case. I go 7,000 to 10,000 on my Accord. 225,000 miles and all is fine. Changing at 3,000 miles wills been a waist of $2,000!!!!!!!!
I think mine is lasting so long BECAUSE i never did any oil change, I just keep adding oil and remove the filter every 10k because it has burned so much oil from day 1 I bought it at mile 1 its now close to 240K miles
Hi guys, so shall I do this « GDI. Cleaning » since it reduces the amount of deposit caused by this bypass system putting back exhaust into the system ? What is this product actually ? Should K ask my dealer or can do myself ? Thanks.
GDI cleaner is just a strong solvent that goes in the intake manifold to dissolve carbon deposits on your valves. You can buy a can of GDI cleaner and do it yourself, or take it to the dealer. I don't know if there is a difference in results because I haven't researched it.
@@LabCoatPaul Thank you so much for answering. You are the best. :)
❤
I had a pre 2010 Elantra that went 300,000km. never took any oil never had a motor problem.
It seems the oil rings on the newer Hyundai and Kias are weak and this is what is causeing the problem.
I heard that too. I guess they have less friction or something. That combined with a turbo and GDI is asking to get gas in the oil. At least it's more fuel efficient with 24mpg... Oh wait, that's actually not good fuel economy either.
Couple of questions because I own this car too.
1. What brand of Oil do you recommend using for this car?
2. 5W20 or 5W30?
3. Do you recommend the Fuel injection cleaning from dealership?
4. Do you recommend adding ATS oil and fuel cleaner (like scotty does)?
I own a Santa Fe with the 2.4 and my only recommendation is to trade in the vehicle for a Toyota while prices are still high.
I use 10K mile Mobil1 full synthetic oil in all my vehicles, except the Hyundai. It burnt it within 3K miles, so I switched to the cheaper super tech full synthetic and I now do 3K mile oil changes. At least in my car, after changing the PCV valve every 10K miles and turning on eco mode has helped reduce oil consumption. Good luck.
@@powerjddo you use super tech 5w30 or 5w20
@@truebengalsfan I use 0w-20
@@powerjdI will try it I know some with 2012 sonata 2.4 having same oil consumption issue
@@truebengalsfan yeah, it’s a defect that Hyundai refuses to take care of. Only certain models are covered under the recall from a few years ago.
I have a 2018 Tucson SEL and I'm going through oil like a madman. Lost half a fucking quart in 280 miles, total down a whole quart on this oil change that I just did 5 weeks ago and only am only 1,200 miles into. What engine would that one be?
Already changed the PCV valve, at first thought that fixed the issue. It didn't. Next step is replace the spark plugs just because, as well as going up from 5w20 to 5w30 and using a Lucas treatment to see if that stops the excessive consumption. I was about to trade this shitbox in and my hours got cut at work, so I couldn't afford it.
1000 mile oil changes??? I thought that maintenance on my Mercedes E300 was high!
I think the problem with your car actually started with the original owner, which brings up the importance of checking a vehicle's maintenance history. I think you don't have a GDI problem so much as you have a ring wear problem from poor break in and a long time from when it was new til when it got it's first oil change. I would check compression on that engine and also pull the Carfax to see how long that first oil change took. Also, how long are each of your drive cycles? Do you do a lot of short trips?
I bought my car used, with 28,000 miles. It was a lease return from California. I don't know how often the oil changes were done. I'll assume the person didn't care about the car. There were other signs of abuse like paint damage from multiple spilled sodas on the roof and candy under the seats.
My first oil test showed 6% of the oil is gasoline. The limit is 2% before the viscosity of the oil is compromised. Older cars with port fuel injection have zero fuel in the oil. One of my friends just did a test on his 1998 Toyota Tacoma with 260,000 miles and there was no gas in the oil.
After I had the high pressure fuel pump replaced, my oil contamination dropped from 6% to 2% over a 3,000 mile oil change, confirming the fuel pump was leaking into the oil.
GDI operates at 2,000 psi and the pump sits on top of the valve cover and is driven by the camshaft. If it leaks even a little bit, the gas will go straight into the oil by the camshaft. Also, the gas is sprayed into the cylinder at high pressure, and there's a turbo. All those factors increase the chances of fuel getting past the piston rings.
It's possible my engine has some cylinder and ring wear, however, it does not burn oil. After 3,000 miles, the dipstick indicates FULL. Perhaps even a little more, with the gas in there. I start with 4.5 quarts, and I end up with 4.59 quarts of oil + gas in the oil pan.
Blackstone labs said there was a serious problem that needed repairs with the first test. After I had the high pressure fuel pump replaced, they advised to keep an eye on the oil contamination, and not to go over 3,000 miles on the oil.
My driving habits are severe duty. I rarely drive the car more than 4 miles at a time. Going to work is 15 minutes, 4 miles. Going to the store is 5 minutes, 1 mile. The engine doesn't get a chance to warm up, and fuel doesn't get a chance to evaporate out of the crankcase. It's reasonable to do 3,000 mile oil changes with that kind of driving, so I don't think my car is broken. But If I blindly follow 5,000 mile oil changes, it will burn tons of oil by the time I get 80K miles on the car.
@@LabCoatPaul Great explanation. Yes, the short trip driving is severe duty. 3k interval is a good choice.
I have a 3.3 v6, oil burner, terrible, once a month oil changes and cleaning the pcv valve help with oil consumption. Obviously it's not made right
My 2015 sonata hybrid w/ 103k , burns 1qt every 1200 miles
On my Ford Edge St the oil has a gas like odour. The catch can I use has this milky mix of oil, water, and gas…probably some other carbons
The hot ticket item on your edge ST is the PTU fluid. Make sure you get that changed out every 30k miles or so.
Oh, and have fun changing it lol. There's no drain plug. I had to suck the fluid out with a pump.
@@mikeg3529 thanks. I already did that pain in the ass job on my Explorer. Fortunately the ST is a lease so someone else can worry about the PTU lol.
That’s funny…my family went through the Korean twins shenanigans back in 2003…they’re supposedly so much better now….😂😂😂😂😂
This is why I put 15w-50 in my GDI accent and change it every 2500-3000 miles. 230k and no funny business.
Thank you. I see 200k mile Elantras all the time. Quality gasoline and frequent synthetic oil changes seem to be too hard to comprehend for some. Engines are complex machinery in need of maintenance
Love the Scotty Kilmer plug! LOL
If Paul would only scream more, he too might have FIVE MILLION SUBSCRIBERS!
(Just kidding - please don't.)
Nobody does "click bait" better than Scotty Kilmer!
2017 SantaFe Sport, I have to add 1 liter of oil every month. They accepted to replace the Short Block but if I pay $7000 for other parts!!!!!!! I am trying to join a class action in Canada
A free engine for $7,000. What a deal! It's unfortunate they screw people over like this.
@@LabCoatPaul So much for that FABULOUS Hyundai/ Kia 10yr warranty! LOL
Honda 1.5s have the same issue avoid them as well
Hey Mike, horrible vehicles
Have never heard about this lawsuit or any recalls - I have a 2021 Hyundai Kona Limited with a 1.6T - looks nothing like your motor.
The direct injector, on a gasoline fueled engine, sprays fuel into the cylinder on the INTAKE stroke only (i.e. not the compression stroke), just like the old port injector does. The only difference is that the direct injected fuel is sprayed directly into the cylinder under high pressure, like you said. Where a port injector sprays 60 PSI fuel upstream of the open intake valves on the intake stroke. Only a compression ignition engine, a Diesel, sprays very high pressure direct injected fuel on the compression stroke to start the fire.
If u want more trouble go with turbo
your showing mpi injection as gdi the mpi sprays the back of the valve. gdi sprays fuel directly into the combustion chamber(top of the piston)
Should I cancel my order before it arrives, at a cost of $500 deposit ? 😫😣😣
Are you buying a new Hyundai Tucson? I think they're really good cars. My Tucson is the best car I've ever owned, but every other car was a 20 year old POS that's falling apart.
The new Tucson has the same engine as my 2017, so fuel getting in the oil will still be an issue. Make sure to test the oil and don't go over 3,000 miles oil changes.
A lot of new cars with GDI also get gasoline in the oil, so if you choose a different vehicle, do a bit of research first - it might have the same issues as the Hyundai.
Well when you buy the car new you get a 10/100 k warranty so I'd the engine blows them the manufacturer will replace it. I personally use moa by bg to help protect the engine.
The 100K warranty only applies to the original owner. Buying the car used gets you a 5 year powertrain warranty. Testing the oil and changing it often is the best move.
My dad told me once that car manufacturers always have their bad
Engines... You have to do your homework on which ones......
He's right! Unfortunately, most of us find out after we buy the car.
Use lucus fuel injector cleaner
I don't think it has to do with the fact that it's gasoline direct injection but much more to do with emissions standards. The manufacturer made the bore a lot looser so there would be less friction so that they could get more rotation out of a little bit of fuel.
They meet EPA standards and that's why the engines are failing sooner than later. So save the environment by buying a new car every 3 years instead of having a car that will last for 10 years but create a little bit of extra pollution because it doesn't make any pollution to make new vehicles and to harvest the raw materials, run the factories etc..,.right?
Yes, the loose bores make the car get better gas mileage! No old car has ever achieved the mind-blowing 24 mpg that I get... Literally every small car from the 90's does better on gas than that. You can easily get 30mpg out of a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla. Back then, they just made the cars lightweight with no safety. Some people think the Geo Metro got 55mpg. I had a 1994 Geo Metro. It got 35mpg, because you had to floor it 100% of the time to get the car to move, but that's still much better than 24mpg.
It's funny how the EPA makes rules about the environment that result in more pollution. How about those new gas cans that just spill all the gas on the ground? I'm happy they prevent gas from evaporating through the vent.
I tested my 2017 Hyundai Tucson with an exhaust gas analyzer, and it does actually burn much cleaner than my 1997 Toyota RAV4. Direct injection gives you much more precise control over the air to fuel ratio. The test was done at idle, not while the turbo was spooled up. Spoiler alert: they run super rich while in boost to prevent detonation.
Another fun fact: cars with GDI only (no port fuel injection) have carbon buildup problems on the intake valves that has to be cleaned once a year. If every GDI car burns 1 quart of GDI cleaner in the engine every year, how much pollution is that? That cleaner is gnarly. The smoke coming out is dense white poison. At least Toyota is smart enough to have port + direct injection on their newer cars so that service is not needed.
@@LabCoatPaul The gas can 😂. They have conversion kits but yes, The EPA is very short-sighted.
Cummins diesel engine 5.9 you get a million miles to 6.7. you're lucky because of the EGR to get 350,000 mi before she needs real maintenance and this plays out in our food cost. But it also plays out in farmers and truckers and everybody else having to get new diesel engines and or whole equipment cuz they can't afford the downtime. So I'm not sure how you're saving the environment if you have to manufacture a whole new rig and dispose of the old one. 😆
The loose Bores doesn't completely fall on the shoulders of the EPA because I'm sure it has something to do with manufacturers 100,000 mi service for life type of philosophy.
You'll have to come back and get a new car if it's blowing blue smoke. They only need it to make it through the warranty. Not to the 3rd or 4th owner.
The fact is is a technology has come a long way. The GDI is great technology, they'll also run very rich most engines. If you have a background check engine light on that you haven't fixed, it'll do the same thing. It'll run really rich cuz it's assuming worst case and it's always better to have too much fuel than too little fuel.
Just a guess cuz I have not actually tried it, but I'm assuming that if you run water vapor through like a misting system through the intake and let it go over those valves, it'll clean them. I wouldn't do too much as you warp it, but when you're cylinder, head blows a head gasket, the coolant will get in there and completely spotlessly clean the combustion chamber. You could even do this with a catch can and the PCV system 👍