CAUSE REVEALED!.. The Self-Destruction Of Jaguar Land Rover 2.2 / 2.7 / 3L Diesel Engines
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.พ. 2024
- This is the LINK to the video where I take a closer look and investigate the destroyed bottom-end crankshaft: • 2.7 / 3.0 Diesel TD V6...
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The 2.7L TDV6 in the Land Rover Discovery 3 suffered from broken crankshafts, yet it never had DPF. That didn't come in until the 3.0L SDV6 was introduced. As someone else has commented, ALL modern diesel engine vehicles in UK and Europe have the DPF fitted. It's part of Euro V specification, and they all have the same issues as you spent a good 20 minutes reading from Jaguar documentation. It's something that was forced on the manufacturers, the same as the Exhaust Gas Recirculation systems. You are using pure speculation to determine that the DPF is the reason for the failure of these engines, and you do not have any data to back it up. People need to know your advice is flawed. Yes, the V6 Lion does suffer from crank failures, but I'd be more inclined to believe what Christian of LR Time TH-cam channel believes is the reason. At least he has a lot of data to back up his proposal.
Mhhh….but what Christian also said is, that the thinner oil is better not use in that engines. So maybe both are right. The crankshaft is not a „Toyota design“ and never let the oil getting thin 😅
The 2.7 certainly DID have the DPF!! I had a D3 and RRS with the 2.7tdv6 and BOTH had the DPF!!!
@@nicholascross1961mine didn’t
@@markcarter3897 depends whether it was a euro3 or euro4 rated vehicle.
@@nicholascross1961 2006 Dpf was added 2007 model year
The LR Time TH-cam channel also covers oil pump version issues that can result in slow oil pressure build up on start-up and advises using a 10W-40 at higher mileage to help the oil pressure issue. IMO anyone who buys a JLR product needs their head examined. One example is the timing chain arrangement on the four cylinder looks like it's from a Raleigh bicycle . Great video thank you.
Excellent bit of information, I take my 2018 evoke for a 20 mile run on the motorway every 3 weeks. Hopefully that sorts out my Dpf regen. I will be swapping my oil and filter out every 5000 miles. Excellent video.👍
Hi Terry, thank you for watching and for your feedback.
Sorry, may I misunderstand you - the problem is in the DPF? If so, then Discovery was delivered to Russia without DPF and our engines also break down
Yes, this poster has drawn completely wrong conclusions. Basically this video is full of misleading mistaken claims. He hasn’t got a clue.
@@hedydd2 our russians repairmen came to several conclusions:
1. You need to change the oil every 6-7 thousand kilometers
2. Use 5w40
3. Flush the radiators once a year
4. Change the thermostat once a year
I have been involved in vehicle mechanics for over 50 years, I am retired now, but had always advised my customers to have their oil changed far more frequently than their service books recommend. In the 70's oil was always changed every 6000 miles or so, I know technology has evolved and improved over the years, but one thing that does not change is what that oil is going through whilst your engine is running, in fact, because engines of today can rev faster and maybe higher, I would suggest the conditions are much worse and so more is expected from the performance of that oil for much longer periods.
Whether you are correct about the DPF or not, and for the record, I believe you are bang on the money, it makes perfect sense to me that the sooner you change your oil, the better. A small amount of expense now saves you an awful lot of expense if that engine does let go and if the DPF system is introducing neat diesel into the oil then that oil is compromised and unable to perform as it should and no amount of data bullshit is going to change the outcome of that.
I personally do not like DPF systems at all, I think the minimal gains that are provided by having them are outweighed by the incredibly high temperatures and copious amounts of software, sensors and ecm communications needed for them to operate properly.
My brother had his go up in flames on his Puegeot 406 a few years ago, and unbelievably there was a clause in his insurance that allowed them to wriggle out of paying for his car to be repaired. DPF's and CAT fires are not covered under some insurance policies.
He has recently had problems with the DPF on his 2.2 Jaguar, and has now been told that in order for the adblue to be topped up, he will have to go to a main dealer and have the system bled, so your suspicions that the 2.2 is also affected could also carry some weight. Car manufacturers need to come clean, but we both know that will never happen.
Hi Keith, Thank you for watching and for your excellent feedback.
I have had my DPF and EGR "intelegently" deleted ( not removed ) & has passed 3 MOT's without issue, my car is the Jaguar xf 3.0 v6 diesel. I also run it on 5w40 oil. 148k miles on the clock n sweet as a nut.
Hi, thank you for watching and for your feedback.
My tdv6 2.7 has now done 160000miles trouble free it’s down to regular oil changes and good quality oil and filters.
Hi Mark, thank you for watching and for your feedback.
Wow, my friend has a discovery 6 with the 3.0 6 cylinder ingenium engine. (Thier own new design). It had a new engine at 20,000 miles and spent 2 years inside the dealership being fixed ( under warranty). They’re snowed under with them
thanks for that, we bought a 2015 xf 2.2,a couple of years back, research suggesting tye 2.2 being pretty bulletproof, however ige changed the oil and filter every 3 monthe regardless of mileage, as i think its cheaper than a new engine, people may also be being told as 8 was that the oil now is high mileage oil
Hi, thank you for watching and for your feedback. The engine oil may be high mileage but not so if diluted. It can only be good to safeguard your engine.
love your video if only some one would do one on a Vauxhall 1.2 turbo wet belt
Hi, thank you for watching and for your feedback.
I have swapped out a 2.2 diesel in a Freelander 2. Crap design of Swirl Flaps dropping in. Second engine was a 82k mileage engine from a scrap car. No DPF and has been no trouble in three years. The V6 engines are a Peugeot design with many engineering design faults. Chis on LR Time is very good at fixing all the faults and re-engineering the faults out. I had a 2.7 TDV6 engine in a Jaguar S-Type, 177k miles, no trouble as it did mostly motorway miles, and no DPF fitted from new. Four sets of tyres, brake discs and pads in its life. It was a pre production press car with all the extras, and manual transmission.
THE biggest cause of self-destruction of the said engines, apart from the 2.2 (DW12), which alongside the 2 liter unit (DW10) fitted in various Peugeots, Citroens, Volvos, Fords etc. are one of the most reliable diesel engines ever, is the crankshaft failure on the V6's. This DPF and oil dilution problem is applicable to ALL diesel engines with DPF's. Pick a diesel engine from any manufacturer and you'll find people reporting the said problems.
On newer diesel engines, especially from EURO 6 onwards, it's not the DPF that's the main concern, but rather excessive soot buildup in intake manifold and valves, since the EGR valves are active for far longer periods of time in order to meet new emissions regulations.
I agree about the inlet manifold contamination but this is mainly due to EGR [exhaust gas recirculation] which has been a common feature since around 1995 if not earlier. Fuel dilution due to failed DPF attempts is not an issue with all engines. Most good designs have DPF’s that are directly coupled to the turbochargers so they retain most of the exhaust heat in the gas and components, so they light off reliably with minimal extra fuel required. As long as these are driven some distance on a regular basis they last a very long time.
Hi, thank you for watching and for your feedback. That is an interesting point you have made about the DPF systems on other vehicles, I will research it.@@hedydd2
By pass the shit EGR valves.
i watched a video recently of a stripdown of i think a 3.0 v6 where the main bearings had spun, i couldnt believe that there was no location of the bearings as such, having stripped 60,s and 70,s engines it was obvious that the shells had an area that located it in the journal, you would think that after over 100 years of building engines that this kind of thing could not happen, but it does!
Hi, thank you for watching and for your feedback. The bearings are held in by crush pressure, the pressed out tabs are for location of the bearings but I agree with you, I think those tabs also helped to stop the bearings from spinning. The XK engines I worked on in the 60s and 70s did not suffer with spun bearings, the bearings and cranks would wear but would take a regrind and new shells if out of wear tolerance.
If a bearing spins it's because it's started to seize, so it's already toast, tabs or not.
Many thks for such an insightful video , also own a 2.7 D3, do change the engine oil / filter every 6,000 miles as a precautionary factor , thks again and following with interest
Hi Gary, thank you for watching and for your feedback. As I said in the video I mainly work on the Jaguars so any reference I make to the Landrovers I am assuming they run the same systems as the Jags, if they don't then other factors can / will be involved. Changing the oil and oil filter though as a precautionary factor as you do is the best and cheapest way to protect the engine.@@garystuart226
Just reading your response regards shell location missing. BMW had the same unbelievable manufacturing error. This time it was a very expensive motorcycle engine 1000RR. Crankshaft shells spun on the Crankshaft due lack of location lugs on the shells!! Considering cost new, it should never happen and as always the customer pays with inconvenience and his wallet. I do feel manufacturers of all vehicles should be more accountable for their products!
Good observation and probably accurate. I have a 2018 Land Rover Td6 3.0. Ridiculously the service interval is recommended at 16K miles. I actually do half that. I do drive my vehicle on ling drives weekly, 200 miles at motorway speeds. I’m assuming this helps keep the DPF cleaned out without resorting to the ECM forcing it.
Hi Chris, thank you for watching and for your feedback. What Jaguar Land Rover are saying is that driving style (mainly around town) can cause oil dilution through too many attempted and failed regens. I recommend the 5,000 mile intervals as a precaution, that seems to have worked with my customers who over the years have had no problems. Checking engine oil level is an indicator to see if the level has increased.
Thanks! Will do.
I have a 2020 sdv6 discovery and thought oil change intervals of 26000km are beyond excessive. Makes sense about dilution of engine oil with fuel.
200 miles isn't long, 3000 miles is long.
Chrystal Clear Mechanics: Please examine at least some of the failed AJD-V6 engines and i bet you find that the small rubber cone valve sitting botton of oilfilter base have been off from its holder, and part of the oil pressure have been lost thru the drain hole. Valve cone is in its holder just with push thru fit and mounting new filter wrong way can knock it off. Valve is acting as drain valve of the filter housing during filter change. Yes, oil dillution are part of the problem, but not alone. Just making situtation worse when oil pressure are low because of drain valve failed.
Hi, thank you for watching and for your feedback. I will look into it.
Thank you for a very thought provoking video, I believe that the oil dilution may be the clue. Possibly partially masked by using a different viscosity oil in some cases? My own perception (naturally with no hard proof) is that modern diesels thrive if they are worked hard for long periods. the "school run" style of driving is just not compatible with the emissions control devices. I suspect that "driving style" is the most critical factor. The Lion V6 with the narrow web crank may just be more vulnerable than other engines due to bearing loads.
Hi, thank you for watching and for your feedback. You raised some good points. Thanks again.
Would fitting an oil temp and pressure gauge give prior indication of diluted oil and also heat build up on the crank? Cheers.
Aussie Ford Territory from 2011 used the V6 2.7L engine without DPF. We never had crank failure. I have always used 5W40 oil.
I’d be interested in how you explain the cranks all going on the same journal, regardless of many not actually having a DPF fitted from factory as in Australia, Russia etc…..I mean it couldn’t be that it’s just not built strong enough for a nearly 3 ton vehicle?…..compare the crank to other comparable large vehicles and you’ll see the other cranks are much heavier in design…..mmmmmm
Hi Kevin, thank you for watching and for your feedback.I would like to establish / clarify what I said during the video. At the beginning i say it is possible that it covers the Land rover range but not to sure about the Land Rover range as I don't do that many.so I have not researched it, then I say I am reading from a Jaguar document so obviously the facts I quote in the video are primarily about the Jaguar range. At around 21 minutes into the video I mention the reports of the crankshafts breaking on the Land Rovers, If you listen I use the words " guessing " " doubt " and " imagine ", these words do not imply that I know hence as I already said I have not researched the Land Rover range of vehicles. I will be reseaching the Land Rover range and am interested to listen and discuss any issues, I also say near the end of the video that there can be various causes for engine failures apart from a main cause. I have seen many suggestions on the cause of the crankshafts breaking, Wrong grade of oil / weak crankshafts / too low oil pressure on idle/ accelerating to fast from idle / etc etc and now the point you make / imply that the crankshaft is not built strong enough for a nearly 3 ton vehicle. The question always pops up, If no other factors are involved then why don't all the engines in these vehicles, across the board, fail for the same reason. Unless you have data that says otherwise I would suggest that these issues apply to only a few vehicles in comparison to the number still on the road without issues. If as i said in the video the Land Rover range are using the same DPF system as fitted to the Jaguars then they will suffer the same side effects, oil dilution. Go to my video 2.7 3.0 diesel TDV6 Jaguar Land Rover destroyed bottom end crankshaft. Look at the comments, they are the reason I researched these issues. Comment from Olly, his wifes 2018 3.0 V6 showing 40,000 miles, 7.7 litres of oil drained containing large amounts of metal fragments. Liffeyking, I've just had this happen on my 2017 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV6 76,200 miles. Thanks again for your feedback.
high mileage oil and change annually, i uave the software that enables me to force a regen but ive never
used it so far, i think there are 2 things our jaguar would be better off with, 1, a temperature guage and 2, a light which tells you when regen is happening
Many problems are caused by the technique of using the engine as a diesel pump, a separate regen injector would solve all issues with this.
@@G-ra-ha-m That’s what the early transverse Ingenium engines with remote mounted DPF should have had rather than use excess diesel in the cylinders on the exhaust stroke. It’s not foolproof though and I’ve had two replacement pre-DPF injectors replaced on my Ford Ranger. These failed at approximately 45,000 miles each time. No DPF or fuel dilution problems at all though.
@@hedydd2 Yes, it isolates the DPF from the engine, allows the oil to last longer.. along with the engines too.
At least on the Ford it's a cheap fix.
You have to use 5w40 ACEA C3 in the 2.7 and 3.0 tdv6 engine due to low oil pressure issues on the centre crank bearings. Broken crankshaft's are all about faulty casting. PSA recommend 5w40 in these engines when fitted in their cars. I like the 5W40 VW505.01 C3 oil due to the high EP additives needed for pumpe dusse engines.
ACEA A5/B5 oils have lower HTHS viscosities and were never available when the V6 Ford /PSA diesel engine was developed. The original engine was never designed to run on such low viscosity oils. These oils were not adopted until the engine had been in production for approx. 2 years as a means of providing better fuel economy but adequate protection only comes if the engine is specifically designed to use them. It is difficult to substantiate if any bearing or manufacturing tolerances were ever altered to ensure that Low Viscosity Oils with HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa*s offered suitable protection for these engines.
The original oil spec for these engines was ACEA C3 5w40 Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPa*s.
French cars using the same engine recommend the older ACEA A3 spec oil 5w 40 - 10w40 full Saps oil with a minimum safe HTHS of 3.5mPa*s and do not suffer anything like the crank failure rate of the Land Rover engines.
Oil dilution is a common problem in all DPF regeneration procedures in all cars some being worse than others but the use of low viscosity oils and thinner bearing oil films of lowered lubricity can only exacerbate the problem loss of protection, bearing pickup, spun bearings, wedging and crankshaft failure.
So what oil should be used in 3.0V6 ? A5/B5 ?
Would love to hear your take on the economics of doing a bottom end refresh as a form preventative maintenance on otherwise healthy higher mileage engines. If lubricant dilution (makes sense) and a known weak crank (which I believe must be contributing at the point of no return) ie when the bearings spin and cut off the remaining lubrication. Maybe the answer is bearings (and/or) a journal Polish. It’s a lot of Labour and the question is where do you stop ?
My wife’s Volvo 2009 2LT diesel dose this a lot because of short journeys so I do a forced regeneration and on smelling the oil you can always tell if the oil has diesel in it and it usually does 🤬🤬 it’s a pain in the ase as it’s usually only 3,000 miles when it happens!
Hi Paul, thank you for watching and for your feedback. I recommend 5,000 mile intervals to my customers and so far have not had any problems but 3,000 mile intervals can only be good.
It’s a known problem with people who ignore the DPF warning. It’s a simple fix for anyone with a brain. When the DPF warning comes on ensure you take it for a 50 mph 20 minute run. I ran a 2.7 Jaguar for 6 years and 100k miles and as all my runs were long motorway journeys and never saw the DPF warning. After I retired and did more short runs I saw the warning several times. A simple 20 minute run fixed it. Also I had the whole system Terracleaned which made a surprising improvement in performance. If you ignore those warning diesel can end up in the sump, water down the oil and ruin the motor. But only if you are a chump and ignore the warnings. Mine did way way over 100k miles and was faultless. It’s dumb drivers who cause the problem not Jaguar
Hi Chris, thank you for watching and for your feedback. It's easy to do most things if you know the how and the why, hence my videos.
Very Interesting where can i get a copy of the technical data you were quoting from?
Hi, thank you for watching and for your feedback. I was quoting from the Jaguar workshop manuel.
2018 range rover sport. Had a DPF problem driving to Channel tunnel. Got mid way and an audible sound started.
Then car went into limp mode.
Returned to dealer.
Problem sorted?....next trip had car serviced before starting off.
Got to spain, two days later engine destroyed itself.
Had to relay home.
JLR paid for 80% of repair, but car off the road for 6 months
Appreciate your video, would you recommend flushing every oil change? or a all?
Hi Safi, thank you for watching and for your feedback. I have found these engines to be very clean internally so no, I would not flush at all. In my experience the 5,000 mile oil / oil filter change has worked regarding oil dilution and driving style, of course this is not a given you must decide. It is always worth checking the oil level to see if it has increased ( an indication of oil dilution ) but not if your engine is burning / leaking oil.
@@crystalclearmechanics
“Very clean internally” yes, it’s flushing itself (with diesel) as you drive! 😂😂😂
Hi Phil, thank you for watching and for your feedback.@@philr1448
What a load of cobblers. I own a 3.0tdv6 Disco 4 which has suffered crank failure and it doesn’t have a DPF. My previous 2.7tdv6 Disco 3 also had no DPF and suffered the same failure not long after my ownership. It’s a poorly designed engine designed by PSA group, built by Ford. To add, Russian and Australian vehicles don’t have DPF yet there’s suffer the same fate so your theory is flawed. You have no clue what you’re talking about.
Your pretty dumb then - if you keep buying them - may god have mercy on you
Your not wrong,it’s utter nonsense to blame the DPF for these crankshaft failures,the oil pumps aren’t that good either causing low oil pressure and 5w30 oil used doesn’t help matters when vehicles are driven hard. The truth of the matter is those crankshafts are shit but Land Rover won’t admit it because they don’t want to admit liability for these failures. These engines will not stand constant high speed operations on 5w30 oil which is the recommended oil for them,I have seen these engines do mega mileages when driven sensibly,I have owned several of them and had absolutely no crankshaft or oil pump problems but used 5w30 in winter and 10w40 in summer when higher engine temperatures tend to occur,I don’t use any of the fancy high price long life engine oils because being a diesel fitter I don’t believe in leaving oil in up to 30,000 miles. My engines have always been spotless inside with no sludge or carbon buildup anywhere,I don’t give a shite what Jaguar or Land Rover say this bullshit is all a cover for faulty crankshafts and oil pumps which they will never admit because of the costs involved with warranty claims,it’s a disgrace that owners have to stand the cost of replacement engines when it’s JLRs fault to start with.
Hi davidlundrigan, we do have pdf on vehicles in Australia and have had since 2011 including R Rover, my 2011 3.0sdv6 sport has done 182000ks and we leave for a Nullabor crossing next Month, we run 5w40 the trip will be about 6000ks when back in Victoria.
Robin
Great video, I have the D4 SDV6 with 90k, oil is changed every 4k but use it regularly on long trips over 150 miles. So far its good. Just to add to some of the comments, the crank fails are almost always due to the main bearings spinning in the block, which can be caused by the lack of lubrication and oil pressure between the main bearings and crankshaft. Oil dilution which is a known problem could easily promote the failures. Id reccomend taking some advice from this man and change your oil frequently, its a lot cheaper then a reconditioned engine, also please remember that Christian from LR is a single man whose research is based on other peoples findings mostly, and a few diy test rigs in the garage at home, no disrespect but he is not God, just a man trying to make a few quid off youtube.
Hi Terry, thank you for watching and for your great feedback. 4,000 mile oil change can only be good.
Diesel contamination on the 2.0 Ingenium on early fitment transversely to Evoque, Discovery Sport and some smaller Jaguar models was/is due to the remote installation down the exhaust pipe of the DPF. There was just no room for it to be fitted directly to the turbocharger. The difference being the heat retained in the DPF. The gas cooled too much on the remote installation resulting in many failed regeneration attempts and the late fuel injection into the cylinders that is used to raise gas temperature, washing the cylinder liners of oil and the liquid passing the piston rings into the sump. This has never been a problem with in-line installations of the same engine or the modified later transverse engines where the body was redesigned to allow a close coupled DPF.
This is not the cause of the V6 engine’s broken crank issue. Thisis due to a very short compact engine design which results in few main bearings and very thin metal fillets between piston bearings. The stress of only four main bearings on the exceedingly weak connection between sections of the crank results in a very high incidence of catastrophic crankshaft failures.
Frankly you have jumped to spurious conclusions based on sections of the engine service manual which do not address the actual failure modes. The four cylinder Ingenium engines fitted to early cars with transverse engines, pre the facelift to reposition the DPF, have a number of issues including sub standard timing chains and guides and the fuel dilution of the lubricating oil results in sub standard lubrication of all internal parts.
The V6 does not suffer from oil dilution. The crank is just too short with not enough metal between the bearing journals. 5000 miles is certainly a must for early Injenium engines but totally over the top servicing for all other engines which do not contaminate the oil with diesel fuel.
Hi, thank you for watching and for your feedback. Some of your suggestions of engine failure raise the fundamental question, Why don't all the engines mentioned, across the board, fail. Engines can fail for various reasons as I said in the video, to say that the V6 does not suffer from oil dilution, where is your evidence / data, Jaguar say they suffer with oil dilution, perhaps you need to let them know they are wrong, just to put the record straight. Thanks again for watching.
@@crystalclearmechanics The evidence for that is years of experience where I have never come across a V6 with any significant fuel pollution of the sump oil. This is in marked contrast to early 2.0 Ingenium engines that were fitted across the car, such as in Evoque, Disco Sport and a small Jaguar, where a very high proportion of engines suffer from this. The cause is well known and due to the remote location of the DPF which was necessitated by the lack of room between the engine and bulkhead due to it being designed for the previous Ford engine. The updated models of these vehicles have a modified bodyshell with the DPG mounted directly off the end of the turbocharger resulting in higher EGT and a reliable regeneration every time, eliminating all the false starts which all required excess fuel in post injection. By the way the late injection of fuel does not increase combustion temperature, but actually is meant to ignite in the exhaust gas itself external to the cylinders and down the pipe to the DPF. `In the same way that Ford and some others use an extra injector in the exhaust pipe itself, which Ford officially call an ‘evaporator’. JLR are not wrong. Your interpretation of what they say and what actually happens is wrong. The problem with the V6 is that Ford never addressed their weak three bearing crankshaft that is too short, leaving very little metal between journals, resulting in an unacceptably high crankshaft failure rate. I doubt very much whether they have cured the issue even today with the South African build and Ranger installation. Just why they never had an issue with DPF ignition with the V6 but had such a shambolic experience with early four cylinder Ingenium is not known to me but possibly due to the vehicles being much heavier and the engine having to work hotter and harder on average than on lighter vehicles, but that is a guess. In any case, in such expensive vehicles they really should not rely on excess late fuel injection for DPF light-off. In the early transverse Ingenium the only solution JLR have to offer is oil changes at half or less the originally advertised intervals. They do allow a ridiculous 20% dilution of the fuel it seems, which to me is quite unacceptable.
JLR engine designers need to be sacked! They also cocked up the 2.0 Ingenium diesel as Land Rover drivers with oil dilution problems and timing chain failures will testify!
Hi, thank you for watching and for your feedback.
Ford designed and build the V6 and JLR did cock up the timing chain and guides for early Ingenium. as well as DPF/fuel contamination of lubricating oil, in early transverse installations, since redesigned in facelifted models.
Hi, thank you for watching and for your feedback.@@hedydd2
Pour le moment j'ai une jaguar XF diesel 2,7 litres V 6 année 2009 j'ai jamais eu aucun problème avec le moteur je fais toujours mes entretiens régulièrement je change la courroie de distribution tout les 60,000km je fais également vidange de la boîte de vitesse automatique tout les 80,000km je change le carter d'huile de boîte automatique et je change l'huile également avec le filtre à huile de la boîte ma jaguar XF diesel elle a bientôt 400,000 km au compteur pour le moment j'ai aucun problème avec elle tourne très bien je pense que je vais passer au moteur 3 , 0 litres diesel V 6
Thanks mate , oil and filter every 8000klms from now on
Hi, thank you for watching and for your feedback.The 5,000 mile (8,000 klms) interval is a recommendation and as a precaution against dilution. It's worthwhile to also check your engine oil level inbetween services, if the oil level rises then this indicates fuel dilution.
i've always changed my oil every 3000 miles. Even then I've measured a 10% loss in viscosity. ( time to run through a std orifice at a fixed temp).
Don't know whether that's fuel dilution or oil degradation. So far no problems after 6 years.
Hi Dick, thank you for watching and for your feedback. 3,000 miles can only be good.@@dickbidgood7791
You’ve just described the DPF regen system used by every diesel since 2006. It’s not unique to Jaguar. Every diesel produced has the same issues.
The 2.2 4 cylinder doesn’t suffer from broken cranks. Only the V6 does. Same for spun bearings. But, in the case of broken crankshafts, the engine is known to be short due to PSA wanting to use it in FWD applications and allegedly that’s made it a little thin at one point making it weaker than it should be. This is why failure is more common on heavier Landrovers and almost unheard of on Jags. Most as you say though are fine including my Jag XF at 111k.
As far as 5 k oil changes go, sure why not. But equally as you say it’s driving style and usage and the computer alerts if it needs to be done sooner so it’s a little bit alarmist. The car knows if the oil is diluted so if it’s saying all is well, why not believe it?
Mine is generally done at 12k and is fine.
So failed cranks aren’t due to oil dilution afaik. Spun bearings may be lubrication related but I suspect it’s just a design fault too and can happen irrespective of oil.
They say the same about LR ingeniums. I had the oil analysed on my low mileage ingenium Discovery Sport after 12 months / 4k. The “internet” would say I should be running on more diesel than oil by then.
Oil very sooty but dilution? Negligible. So changed the oil anyway but not for the reason alarmists claim.
The cranks break on Jaguars also. It’s just that there are far fewer Jaguars around. It is only a proportion that fail each year. Around 5% of all V6 diesel seem to fail on an annual basis, which doesn’t sound too bad until you think about how many each dealer have in their area, which could be between 500 and 1500. If only 500, they may have around 25 failures annually , which is impossible to hide after a few years.
I have been interested in all these ideas on why crank shaft on the tdv6 brake one reason is the casting of some of the crank shaft is not as it should be now this has been under investigation for some time and what was point I would like to make is seems with a new crank shaft fitted and not changing any particular part of the existing emissions fitted to the vehicle and have travelled many miles or kms without any issues,so there is another good point made that was made crankshaft failure happens between 75,000 98,000 102,000 and upto 200,000kms from 2006 to 2015. This for me personally would make more sense because the crankshaft casting I believe was made in different countries who ever read's this comment hope you will find it interesting I did I've been in the motor trade for many years and seen many things
so this doesn't surprise me this would happen thanks Barry.
@@hedydd2 Not sure where 5% comes from as I've never seen actual numbers. I'm active on the UK Jaguar forum where the majority of Jaguar V6 diesel owners will go if there's a problem. Reports of engine failures are very rare there and certainly vastly lower in number than are allegedly seen on Landrover forums. I've also seen reports of spun bearings. In fact, I did a quick search for broken crankshaft and nothing other than a discussion on the subject came up. As these are the same engines in the same batches as LR, the only real difference is in usage. Load, both from the perspective of powering a 4wd system and also the weight. Add in that LRs can also tow large weights and it would seem that stress may be a bigger contributor than other factors.
@@julianberks4740 So what you imply is that the engines are inadequately strong enough to handle the torque with which they are endowed. I would agree with that. They are are indeed not strong enough, which is why they break.
@@hedydd2 Could be. When they first came out they were 2.7s with 435nm - they're now pushing out 700Nm. Mine is the 600nm version and on the 2wd XF, the only thing you get if you try to access that off the line is wheelspin. In fact in anything other than perfect conditions, it can break traction at 40. Plus the weight means acceleration can be brutal so unless you're a total lunatic, you only ever use full power rarely and then in very short bursts. It's great for pulling clear on a motorway but once up to 80, you're idling the rest of the way.
The LR vehicles are obviously much heavier and 4wd so that power is much more accessible, so i do wonder if one is driven spiritedly whether it's pushing the crank harder than it's ideally designed to go. Add in a little manufacturing tolerance and you're close enough to the design limits to err into the statistical failure region.
DPF regeneration works the same across most makes. The oil dilution doesn't help but the V6 diesel bearings design is poor.
Have you got any oil analysis data to back up your theory?
Hi, thank you for watching and for your feedback.Could you clarify what you mean by " your theory "
@@crystalclearmechanics Your theory is that diesel contaminating the engine oil results in reduced oil pressure, which ultimately causes the crankshaft to break. Is there any proof from oil analysis data that engines which have experienced crank failures have excessive diesel in the oil?
Hi, thank you for replying. Your question as to my theory of what causes the crankshaft to break, if you listen to the relevant words i use, " Guessing" "Doubt" and "Imagine" which of those words would you say implies the existence or need of proof? Your question should be relevant to the content.@@tempestv8
It aint no theory mate it is fact - diluted oil will not lubricate as it has no viscosity hence the bearings heat up expand and nip the crank and then the torque of the engine snaps the crank - you dont need no bollocks data to work that one out
Unlikely. He's bundled the 2.2 into the same bracket of the 2.7 and 3.0. wholly different engines. Everyone knows how a DPF works ... service well and don't buy a diesel if you only do short runs.
Very plausible and interesting video. I imagine another factor to be fuel quality, there's quite a variation in diesel fuels available at the forecourt with bio fuel blended etc. If you run on lower quality fuel you can get injectors deteriorating which dramatically increases the amount of fuel goes past the pistons and into the oil on a regen. I'm lucky to live near a garage with a premium diesel fuel option and I always choose it. On a rare occasion where I have to put in a budget brand I only put in the bare minimum and top up with premium as soon as possible. I'm not going to name brands but some forecourt diesel fuel is pretty ropey to the point where a sensitive driver can feel the power loss. One fouled injector will wreck the cat and DPF, replace them and they'll just go again. I used to be a diesel mechanic and I'd far rather spend a few quid more on good fuel and closer oil changes than have the hassle of a major failure. "Service and care always cheaper than big repair"
Not convinced!
A LR Director specialising in remedying common faults covertly discovered that a guy at the Ford factory, who straitened the Crankshafts after forging was applying up to 2.5 times more force than he was instructed too.
Not all of the crankshafts needed that much force. But those that had the excessive force would split the crank somewhere in the region of 60,000 miles. Especially the 3.0 version.
The guy thought he was doing Ford a favour by not binning so many over-bent Crankshafts. He was fired that day!
Hi Rick, thank you for watching and for your feedback. Do you have any links to that information?
@@crystalclearmechanics Yes I do. That director is my next door neighbour but one. I have a Discovery 2.7 L319 and a Range Rover Sport 3.0 L320. Obviously, we chat about LR a lot. He told me about it the day he sacked the Ford guy. He was furious that Ford hadn’t noticed him doing it.
His view is that mine are (hopefully!) well past the danger point.
Hi Rick, Is this documented by JLR? @@Rickwardful
@@crystalclearmechanics I don’t know if it is documented or not. But I’m certainly not the only person that he has told about it.
Hi Rick, I am not doubting you, I just need to see the evidence / documentation which supports what you say. I will try and research it but it's always good to have a starting point. Thanks again.@@Rickwardful
Prawidłowo rozpylający wtrysk czyli sprawna dysza nie rozcięczy tak oleju żeby silnik stracił ciśnine na panewkach ja bym radził sprawdanie wtrysikiwaczy na rozpylanie i wymiane oleju częstą.
This is not the reason cranks snap on these, not a chance.
Hi Nigel, thank you for watching and for your feedback. What is the cause of them breaking.
@@crystalclearmechanics Hi, The short length of the block compromising the crankshaft design.Highly stressed with narrow webs and associated harmonics
Watch a TH-cam vloger called ( LR time ) very worth watching on all 2.7L & ..3L JLR diesels up to 4.4 diesels, worth a look the guy rebuilds the engines with JLR specs and dealer manuals.. they the ford lion engines used by JLR. Very informative... Great vid of your too..
Agreed. LR Times is the go to for this abomination of an engine.
"DRIVING STYLE" sounds like JLR's get out clause ! -
they are actually stopping (or have stopped) production of the V6 engine and going to a straight 6 -
I dont know WHO will make it yet but just hope there are more metal parts on it rather than all the plastic stuff that just keeps warping
JLR - class the LIFETIME of these engines & cars to 100,000 miles - My customer found that out the hard & EXPENSIVE way when trying to claim for a detonated engine - just outside the warranty !!
The 2.7 TDV6 engine used by JLR was the same basic design as the Ford/Volvo and Peugeot/Citroen TDV6 engines of the same capacity. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_HDi_engine, and is basically a "Lion" Duratorq block used by all. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_AJD-V6/PSA_DT17
Hi Ed, thank you for watching and for your feedback.
talking through your arse the 2.2 is bulletproof my last 1 had done 170k I know of a 2.2 that done 300k
Don't know why you keep harping on about "driving style." because it has a direct effect on DPF operations. If your driving style is a short trip to the shops, where the engine never warms up, your "driving style" is 100% a factor, and your DPF will never burn off. If your driving style is long distance motorway, the DPF system is likely to work as designed.
Hi, thank you for watching and for your feedback. " Driving style " can and will cause oil dilution by way of the engine management system initiated by the DPF system. ( Jaguar documentation ) I would be interested as to why you assume everyone knows that?
@@crystalclearmechanics I would be interested to know why you think I was referring to that particular aspect, which I did not mention. Not comprehending my comment and then putting words in my mouth is poor form. My inference from your continuous eye rolling about their (perfectly valid) reference to driving style was that you think that claim is rubbish, yet here you are agreeing with it. Who is this "everyone" you speak of? Fully 90% of people have no idea what goes on in any part of their vehicle, let alone the intricacies of the over the top anti-pollution systems that are bolted onto today's cars.
It is very rare I head any issues of the 2.2 in reality. I think it's the best in that area.
Hi Paul, thank you for watching and for your feedback.Yes the 2.2 is a good engine.
Nothing to do with the DPF the diesel engines from PSA and JLR are shit. No DPF in ROW like Russia or Africa but they still fail. There is a fundamental design fault and the build quality is crap.
Avoid the early 2.0 transverse installed Ingenium engines like the plague. They are rubbish due to fuel contamination because of failed regenerations. This is NOT the problem with V6 engines self destructing. This is not an issue with any other installations of the four cylinder engines be they the Ford/Peugeot 2.2 or the in-line and later Ingenium 2.0 engines. These may have rubbish timing chains and chain guides but that is a quality control issue at the design and materials factory stage.
This video is way too long, its rambling, there is no need to read verbatim the tech notes, a concise presentation would be interesting, basically dilution of the engine oil by diesel contamination is bad news, which may be caused by DPF fault. The basic advice for anyone who drives a diesel on only short journeys is to give it an "Italian tune up" regularly even weekly.
Это как ???
It's because people don't do proper servicing on their vehicles and use cheap shit oil. I have a TD4 M47 engine with 201000 miles, oil changed every 5- 6000 miles, perfect.
Спасибо ! Это очень важно, что вы написали. Все правильно !!!
Thank God I don't have a modern engine😀
Lion shitbox engines
Tidy vid but can somone hook this guy up with a set of glasses that suit him and not some he borrowed of his neigbours gran 😂😂😂
rubbish .a good oill pressure sensor and monotoring is THE solution because also bad oilpumps are in the root cause of bearings failure , another point is that JRL is a bad assembler ( not a manufacturer ! )
No good pressure sensor in the world will fix this problem. Here's why:
th-cam.com/video/v3moekbW6z8/w-d-xo.html
Assembler of what? Ford built these engines in their plant in South Wales. That's why JLR (not JRL) moved to their own Ingenium range of engines, so they were no longer dependent on Ford.
@@simonuden8450and that didn’t turn out well ingenium engines are total junk.
@@markcarter3897 I’m sure there’s a very good reason for you making that outlandish claim, and I won’t say you’re wrong, but despite all the internet hype that always surrounds Land Rover products and is invariably posted by people who know next to nothing, and can’t afford one even if they did want one, there are tens, if not hundreds of thousands of JLR vehicles out there on the roads worldwide which are happily running with what you call a junk engine in them. Perhaps they’ll all stop dead tomorrow
@@simonuden8450 As you seem to be the authority on all things "JLR" could I just ask you how many of the 3.0V6 or Ingenium engines YOU have actually repaired or stripped down ??
I drive a Toyota!
💥 Promo sm
They are a failure full stop.
JLR Rubbish
Lose the silly hat….
You are actually presenting incorrect information. The 2.2 DOES NOT SUFFER FROM the same failure. Please either remove your video or amend it.
Hi, thank you for watching and for your feedback. if you listen to what I say in the video " I am reading from Jaguar documentation " A side effect of the DPF system on the 2.2 XF Jaguar, caused mainly by driving style, is oil dilution. What makes you think Jaguar would give incorrect information?
Would fitting an oil temp and pressure gauge give prior indication of diluted oil and also heat build up on the crank? Cheers.
Hi, thank you for watching and for your feedback. There are two indicators of oil dilution although not great, checking oil level manually and the dash warning light indicating diesel fuel has reached 7% of engine oil volume. Both these indicators are only valid if the engine does not burn / leak oil. As a precaution I recommend 5,000 mile interval engine oil and filter change. It has worked for my customers although some recommend less mileage.
Would fitting an oil temp and pressure gauge give prior indication of diluted oil and also heat build up on the crank? Cheers.
Хороший вопрос ! Система контроля двигателя Ленд Ровер не дает ответы на важные вопросы, водители замечают проблемы, когда уже поздно !!!! Недовернутые стрелочные приборы температуры охлаждающей жидкости двигателя и масла, а также давления масла, это минимум !!!