The 'Star Trek Generations' Battle - A re-cut that attempts to actually make some sense.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ค. 2019
- NOTE: Skip to (2:55) of you just want to see the re-cut I did.
I have always hated this damn battle. My theory is that the edit was made to the score, and not the other way around. They didn't want to spend the money to redo the score, or just didn't care. Of course, considering the fact that they just reused the the BoP blowing up shot from the last movie, I just don't think they cared.
I am ignoring the whole shield modulation issue or the fact that shields or not, a Galaxy class ship should just able to destroy a 20 year old scout ship.
But no matter..
So just to explain everything in the re-cut:
The battle begins as normal. A bug put in Geordi's Visior gives the Duras BoP the shield frequency of the Enterprise D. These transmissions are not detected in the first place nor is does shield modulation never comes up on the bridge.. for reasons of Plot vulnerabilities. But no matter.. we will work are way around this.
Two torpedoes pass through the shields and not only knock out shield modulation control, but also main power. Riker orders a phaser blast.. to little effect cus main power is fluctuating. The Klingons, instead of saying their shields are holding in the middle of the battle when the Enterprise is not firing anything, they say it after the first phaser volley. They return fire and consoles explode because star trek.
We then see the nacelle being hit and go to engineering.. where the damage to that is relevant. Geordi mentions trying to reroute and restore main power.
Riker and Worf talk about plasma coils and Worf mentions the cloaking device being used by the plasma coils. So Riker has a hunch about ionic pluses, and tasks Data with use this new amazing way to hack a Klingon ship and make it engage the cloaking device.
Riker returns to worf, and instead of saying "fire a spread" that Worf doesn't fire anyway, he tells him we have one shot, make it count.
Both ships now attempt their decapitation strikes. Riker orders the torpedo to fire - The Klingon's see this but are not concerned as their shields have literally taken no punishment, and a single torpedo shouldn't be a problem. Regardless, the BoP responds by targeting the bridge of the Enterprises, but misses.
With the Torpedo almost on the target, Riker tells Data to make it quick when the ionic pulse is ready because he knows the window is closing fast. If the torpedo gets their too soon, it will impact the shields and the plan will be dud. We get our actual.. well much closer to 2 seconds (better than 15) of vulnerability and the Boom goes the Klingon's.
And we then see a repeat of the same finale from ST:tUC. Yay..
![[ไฮไลต์] มวยสากลฯหญิง รุ่น 66kg จันทร์แจ่ม สุวรรณเพ็ง ไทย vs แอลจีเรีย รอบรองชนะเลิศ | โอลิมปิก 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nt71uhZjn6Y/mqdefault.jpg)
What bugged me the most was that they would keep critical information like the shield frequency on a display like that. That’s the kind of thing that gives security people heartburn.
What also bothers me is when Geordi is returned and a medical scan is performed on him, they didn't bother to check his visor for tampering or bugs planted into it. He was kidnapped by the Klingons and Soren during Data's emotional breakdown, and Soren taunted him for a bit while waving around the visor as Geordi was strapped down in a very brutal looking restraint chair. You'd think this would raise some security concerns in light of another recent (couple years back) visor tampering incident that also involved Geordi being kidnapped, and then he was controlled/manipulated through the Romulan tampered visor to assassinate a member of the Klingon High Command.
Ohh just enjoy it. Riker’s “fire” is probably the best line in Star Trek. Ever!
Its all about timing and how it is delivered. One word can be awsome.
And that time he says "fire" in 'Best of Both Worlds'... 😉
Great point
I don't know......Kirk's "fire" with a fist, in The Undiscovered Country was pretty good.
Same as TBOBW. "Fire at Will", no pun, right? Also, Frakes is a Leo! 🎉
I was hoping the recut would include more shots fired by the Enterprise which was my biggest problem with the battle.
To quote Red Letter Media, how f*cking cheap to you have to be to reuse a special effect?" (in this case, the BoP explosion from Star Trek 6. That was also the film that set into motion the Klingon battle strategy when detecting an incoming torpedo - stand there, make no attempt to evade, look shocked, and kiss your asses goodbye.
Those RLM guys suck. VFX companies have reused effects since the dawn of ILM. It's not great when they do, but it was a staple of these effects until CGI came around.
I noticed this when I saw it in theaters …I was a kid then but still couldn’t get it past me 😂
The original Galactica reused the hell out of their space battle footage too.
you wanna talk about reused effects, the shields failing noise from Star Trek 6 is blatently blaring at 1:04, and I bet that animated display is still on the wall complete with the diagram of the connie on it too
one torpedo is considered a full spread?
That always bothered me too
Guys if you watched this then you know they constantly would say full spread on TNG episodes but rarely show more than one torpedo.
This is what a full spread should look like th-cam.com/video/TdgmfGB8Xzw/w-d-xo.html
maybe since they were all targeting the same spot they didn't " spread out" to become distinguishable.
@@captbloodbeard Thank you Mr. captbloodbeard
"that bothers of all us" *shudders with grammatical OCD*
NOPE! The 14 seconds is not 14 seconds. The sequence of time on the Klingon bridge where they say they're cloaking is the same time sequence as when Riker says "Fire" i.e. they're happening at the same time rather than one after the other. The torpedo is shown firing in slow motion also indicated by the sound which you can hear elongated. This gives more time to show the realisation of the Klingon bridge to their inevitable doom.
Obviously you don't have the footage to make the cut you want look good so it does look a bit of a mess especially with the sound cuts. It would possibly work if they had time to react mockingly to a single torpedo being fired before their cloak raised and shield dropped only to look back at the realising that this seemingly insignificant salvo would be their end and that their arrogance was misplaced.
Then why didn't the torpedo accelerate when Lursa turned around in real time?
If the enterprise had just fired all of its phasers and photon torpedos every chance it could that BoP would have been destroyed
Riker: We're on the flagship of the Federation and took on the Borg and came out on top! Are you telling me our downfall is an out of date D12 Bird of Prey? Not on my watch... Mr Worf..! Activate the Emergency Command Hologram.
Worf: It hasn't been invented yet!
Riker: No Mr Worf, I think we won't do what you suggest.
Worf: ... I... I... Oh the hell with it. Remodulating ships nutation. There! We're safe! And screw you all I'm transferring to DS9!
Or, you know, keep firing. The Galaxy class outguns the BOP 5 to one.
Nah the writers got it wrong big style lol the constitution class outgunned a BOP 10 to 1 in the 2280's
The Galaxy class must be a 100 to 1 lmao
This also bothered me. Especially the shield frequency part. When I was watching I was like “duuudee change the shield frequency”
Everyone was screaming the same thing
Or they could've just rerouted the power from the shields to their phasers and defeated the Klingon ship that way if somehow they couldn't change the frequency.
Remember the klingons had tapped in into la forge's visor, whatever shield frequency enterprise changed to could be observed by the klingons, also the klingons had the element of surprise catching the enterprise at a severe tactical disadvantage, able to inflict heavy damage before enterprise could get a good firing solution on the bird of prey.
@@avirti But as we see the Enterprise is facing the Bird of Prey so I don't understand why they didn't just respond with a full barrage of photon torpedoes and phasers. Even if their shields are ineffective surely they could've overwhelmed the Klingon ship's shields with repeated salvos of fire. Not to mention by turning they are exposing their warp nacelles to direct fire.
@@nick0875 i guess the writers of the show needed a scenario where the enterprise is critically damaged and crashes, rather than a more realistic scenario where enterprise annihilated the klingons, like all TV and Film its down to artistic licence.
But i feel the way many trek fans feel that the enterprise D went down to easily, i would have preferred she put up more of a fight.
Apparently there was a guy screaming at the top of his lungs in the theatre. I think it went along of the lines of "REMODULATE YOUR SHIELD FREQUENCY!!!!!!!"
Literally what they do against the Borg all the time
They didn't know specifically to change the shield frequency because they didn't know the shield frequency was compromised. They only knew that the Bird of Prey had figured out how to penetrate their shields. They can't sit there as sitting ducks trying every reason that their shields could have been compromised. Why should the Enterprise have been able to easily destroy a ship with active shields? They fired phasers and they had no immediate effect. If they sat there long enough, could they have penetrated the Bird of Prey's shields? Probably, but would have been destroyed in the meantime. The question of "2 seconds of vulnerability" isn't based on specific knowledge on Riker's part. He had to get input from both Worf and Data and figured that the window would be 2 seconds. Klingon ships don't have shields while cloaked, which actually means that if the cloaking device were engaged, the shields would be down from the start of cloaking until after de-cloaking. Riker saying "2 seconds" was simply a scripted way to increase the tension. You did all that editing when you could have simply removed the dialogue stating the specific time of vulnerability. Also, 2 seconds of screentime is not necessary analogous to 2 seconds of story time and are not necessarily showing those pieces of time as being one after another on a timeline. They have to cut back and forth between all the characters' reactions, to special effects, etc. Get over it. As William Shatner once said on SNL, "Get a life, will you people? For crying out loud, it's just a TV show."
LOL
Maybe the ionic pulse only triggered the cloaking device for 2 secs and then shields \would reactivate, who knows? You are all speculating on fictionnal stuff that makes no sense and does not apply to cientific and logical reasoning because guess what... Its a movie, movie don't make sense because they are not real, didn't your parents tell you that superman doesn't exist? Nor Picard? ...
Finally someone with a good observation, and clear thinking! There is nothing wrong with original scene, from the drama standpoint, it carries great intensity and punch, and there is no need for re-editing. Not even removing a comment about "2 seconds", because, as you said: "2 seconds of screentime is not necessary analogous to 2 seconds of story time", and that is something even kids understand without the need of explaining. As for the "shield frequency" part, I can only add, from my personal experience, as a maintenance engineer, when the pressure is on and rising, there is no time to sit back and think why things went wrong, simply put, the situation demands fastest "good enough" solution. It is very easy to come up with the best "simply change shield frequency" solution, when you can see the whole picture, and when you know what is the cause of the problem. So, from that standpoint, this situation, on the contrary, is true lifelike situation, that maybe we can learn something from, but certenally proves that director and editor were not wrong, just a lot smarter then average viewer.
No one also takes into account the massive damage from hull breaches and impacts to the ships systems. For all we know it could have cut power to the aft phaser arrays and such. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the original scene in movie context. You can argue all you want about the technical ship stuff but truth be told it's all fiction so they are making it up as they go along.
its standard procedure to change the sheild freaqencey though. i mean thats the case in voyager. heck when voyager was doing it ironicly they could not figure out how the other ship was getting the freaquency every 10 seconds being set randomly.
It is the same ship explosion from the previous movie as well, Chang's ship from Star Trek VI. Edit I said Klang originally. Getin old and mixing up my Klingons
Yep it was I wish they use something different
HOW HOW HOW does a nitpicking TH-camr not mention that?
Chang. Klaa was the Klingon from Final Frontier and Klaang was the Klingon from Broken Bow
I understand the logical problems with this scene, but I actually preferred the original, from an emotional/dramatic standpoint. If the scene feels right, I can forgive a lot of logical inconsistencies. Maybe that's just me.
Me too..I prefer the original.
The re edit is ok..but it doesn't have the dramatic tension it needs
Agree. It's almost fits and starts. Like getting to the good part, then rewinding and adding a comment (in this case scenes). Breaks the tension and rhythm.@@fandomvault4901
what bothered me as well Cmdr. Will Riker told Diana to get them out of orbit and she turns the damn ship to the planet instead of deep space 🙄
Damnit Jim...shes a counselor, not a pilot. Lol
It works better that the torpedo is on the way before they send the pulse to cloak the ship for sure. They two seconds of vulnerable is how long it should take for a smart captain of a ship that suddenly lost shields to jump to warp to get out of range of any torpedo. Not look around and accept their fate.
@@bigtutubi6731 Yeah no one ever get a word wrong on the Internet
"We are cloaking. Our shields are down." ... that line of dialogue took 3 seconds to recite, already past the "2 second vulnerability". I counted 18-19 seconds total, from when you hear the sound of the ship engaging it's cloak, his line of dialogue and the explosion.
Gosh.
What always bothered me, was years of seeing Federation, Klingon, and Romulan ships destroyed almost instantly in combat, the minute they lose shields. Yet the Enterprise can get shot for 15 minutes strait? lol. I know...plot armour and stuff....
Hey everyone, Riker tells Diana to take the helm so she doesn't die. (All good things). In a different reality she dies, Enterprise doesn't turn, fires everything and survives. He did it for love
This is a solid effort to correct some of the issues.
I've always felt that the biggest change which would have at least made this more dramatically believable is to have Lursa and Betors ship be a VORCHA class cruiser. What was arguably intended to be the TNG era Klingon equivalant to the D. She's big, she's mean. If the ships had at least been engaging one another instead of completely glass jawing the D the way they did.... I don't know. There were so many other things they could have done to make this at least more sensible. Another idea I thought was to have Geordi's viser disable the main computer core entirely. If you shut off the computer the ship would be completely defenseless and it would at least make sense why the little bird of prey could jank her.
The reality is, even in Star Trek 3 Kruge new his ship was no match for a Federation heavy cruiser. The Enterprise D completely outclasses the Refit Connie. There is no reason at all to have the D go down like this other than malice aimed at the audience. Its not secret that certain parties on TNG did not like the D, and they wanted something "sleeker and tougher" for the movies. So they literally ganked Gene's Utopian vision for the USS Uglyprise in FC.
Even just adding in a few additional phaser shots in the secondary shots would improve this engagement. As it stands the Klingon says "Our shields are holding" when the Enterprise D isn't doing anything. Just a couple reward phaser shots from the D to show she was putting up a fight in spite of being gimped would have improved the drama of the scene.
It seems the whole scene (original version) was slapped together and rushed into the final script without much thought, and the writers' focus was really on showing the emergency landing sequence from the Star Trek TNG Technical Manual. This battle was basically "Bam bam boom, and let's hold it all together with technobabble duct tape and shots of people getting thrown from the aft station, and console blowing up all over the place. Hope this destracts from the exceptionally poor writing for this battle sequence." The D really deserved a much better fight than this before it went down. And even with a lower budget it could've been done.
Even if they changed the shield frequency it could have been Geordi changing it or otherwise seeing the new frequency and the Klingons could have still been monitoring his VISOR. Also, torpedoes travel at warp speed according to the technical manual therefore would travel too quickly for this edit to make sense. Cutting out the 2 second comment fixes more than this edit does.
Not necessarily Geordi. In "The Best of Both Worlds Part I" Picard ordered Worf to rotate the frequencies. During the battle in Generations Geordi was focusing on damage control. But then again it's just stuff that bothers me LOL 🖖🏻
Yeah. They should have said 10 seconds of vulnerability. There would’ve still been tension. 10 secs isn’t a lot of time. That said I prefer the original but I’m glad ppl still are talking about old school Star Trek-the best Star Trek. I hate what’s happened to the franchise since Into Darkness and Discovery
It's the tactical officer's job to rotate them during a crisis, we saw Tuvok doing this in Voyager fighting the Equinox however their EMH was actively monitoring it, Geordie was not. Riker was a terrible commander here and Worf was a useless tactical officer because "plot". Look at the volleys the ship put out against the Borg, and the Husnok warship... that BOP would have lasted 5 seconds if either of them had done their job. This movie was dreadful.
The problem is really they have no idea how the Klingons bypassed their shields, just that they did. So, in the heat of the moment would you think to remodulate your shields? You say yes because this is a fictional cross-universe where you have hindsight. So. Yeah. Some realism for y'all.
Return fire......fires phaser once. Keep firing!
Deanna also disobeyed a direct order. She never got the ship out of orbit. Not only did it take over 5 minutes between taking the helm and warp core breach, but during separation she had it facing the planet.
While from a technical standpoint your recut is more accurate however it loses the dramatic intensity of the original. I also didn't like the fact they did not adjust the shield frequency but it was an effective way to add drama.
It wasn't standard procedure and since they had no way of knowing it was that and in fact it may have weakened the shields. The recut isn't a movie and it doesn't add any drama to the scene. I'm sure it was discussed ad nauseum before the films release with test groups.
Personally, I would have had them send along some kind of computer virus with Geordi's VISOR that would shut down Enterprise's weapons and shields. So they'd not only have a BoP shooting at them with full disruptors, but they'd also be trying to lock out the virus.
But that's just me.
Are you fucking kidding me? This was a horrible, LAZY WAY to add drama. Just like how they made picards brother and nephew randomly BURN TO DEATH. I hate this movie so much, but it’s the only time we ever get to see he Galaxy class in big screen glory
tminus543
I actually really like Generations. It’s my favorite film with the Next Gen cast. A guilty pleasure I suppose.
There's a difference between adding drama and being an incompetent writer. The Enterprise crew were made into complete morons for these few minutes strictly for plot convenience.
This is why Galaxy Class ships are called Glass Canons.
While this re-cut was a bit rough, it did make sense. The part where that Klingon said "our shields are holding" was in the wrong spot in the original as the Enterprise wasn't shooting at them. So putting it just after the phaser burst makes sense. Likewise with the torpedo taking so much time to traverse it also makes way more sense that Data would have waited with the pulse until the last moment so the torpedo would be impacting within that 2s window.
Still a shame that Worf only fired a single torpedo instead of the "spread of torpedoes" that Riker ordered. Would have been all the more satisfying to see that old Bird of Prey getting smashed to bits by an actual spread of torpedoes instead of just one that happens to hit the most critical area imo.
Stop being so conservative with your ammo Worf; you're a Klingon! FIRE EVERYTHING!!!
At 2:32 you say you counted 15 seconds of vulnerability. I counted 2 minutes and 32 seconds of vulnerability due to the BOP's lack of plot armor lol
I see what you did here, and it's pretty good. I approve (even though my approval means nothing on 17 worlds)
There is a lot of jump cuts in the second edit. Even though structurally the story of the Klingons getting blasted immediately rather than 15 sec later makes more sense it does not look like the scenes flow naturally
Additionally, the 30 seconds it's supposed to take the Constellation to explode in the TOS episode "The Doomsday Machine" actually takes about 90 seconds. Hollywood loves to "build the suspense" by extending scenes to include reaction shots, etc.
Yeah I mean the real issue here is that rule 1 is remodulate your shield frequencies all the time and they didn't do that
Ok this is just a logic problem i have with alot of star treks shows in general. When battling one ship and its do or die. Why not fire ALL your torpedoes at it? I mean SERIOUSLY this battle could've been over in seconds lol
You'd think with enough Borg engagements in the past, the Star Fleet would rotate shield frequency a mandatory tactical SOP.
0:53 - plasma coil count -2
0:58- plasma coil count-1
1:17: plasma coil count-1
1:23- coil count-1
1:33-plasma coil count-1
0:59- cloaking count-1
1:25- cloaking count-1
1:28 cloaking count-1
1:48 cloaking count -1
2:13- cloaking count -1
My favorite line here has always been “Yes! Mmph!”
I counted 1 torpedo as well. Some 'spread' Mr. Worf.
This would have been a great battle having no shields for the Enterprise D and a fully shielded BoP fighting it out until a winner......
But.....
The Shield frequency issue.
Now if they had secured the command codes or even Geordi's command codes they could then explain that they had access and when shields were changed to a new frequency they would adapt (Like The Doctor in Equinox Did)
I like what you are going for in this new edit, well done.
My problem with this?
Counselor Troi still can't drive and crashes the ship. This is the first of two Enterprise ships she crashes. Send her back to the academy! 🤣😂
The second crash was intentional, and served a purpose.
The second one was under orders.
@@ReelMeurik And this crash wasn't her fault as well, as helm controls were offline and the gravity of the planet was already pulling the Saucer down. You try driving a car with defective brakes and a stuck steering wheel.
@@ReelMeurik fun fact but not rely did you know that marina sirtis acthuly got her butt on fire during that fi,ingbog that scene
" Mr WORF , FIRE ! "
TO BE CONTINUED
My biggest problem with all Enterprise D battles is how slow and lumbering the ship always is, when under full impulse it should be quite quick (as seen in several early TNG episodes). Throughout that entire battle, they never got out of orbit!
Hmm I see what you are saying. This does make sense and adds tonnes of dramatic impact. Bird of Prey shields go down at the last possible instant after the torpedo is already on its way. This is brilliant. Well done 👏
Good work!
It'd be funny if Data didn't have the emotion chip but the victory was so sweet he got emotional anyway 🤣
2 seconds of vulnerability was the time it took to drop the shields and cloak the ship completely. The rest of the time was an estimated guess as to the location of the ship that was cloaked. The rest is history. Just like the Duras Sisters
The part that doesn't make sense to me is the torpedo moving so slowly. They can be seen moving much faster in every other battle the Enterprise has in TNG.
This is done on purpose because the Klingons were about to die... in such a moment things seem to happen in slow motion...
Enterprise was accelerating as hard as they could, the torp was shot backwards cancelling out the forward momentum and a little bit more.
Mythbusters did a thing where they shot a ball out of a cannon backwards at the same speed they were driving at forwards, the balls momentum was entirely cancelled out and it dropped straight down when fired, its a similar situation with the Ent D.
Say the Ent was going 29,000 kph and the torp is fired at 30,000 kph, the torp loses the 29,000 kph and travels away from its launching point at 1,000 kph. Relative to the enterprise, its going at its usual speed, but relative to the point in space it was fired from, its only going 1000 kph.
But in the film it was entirely for dramatic effect
Ugh, all this editing and they still didn't find a way to replace the Bird of Prey Explosion lol
Always like the usage of Undiscovered Country's Bird of Prey explosion. Nice recut
I also always assumed that the torpedo was in slow motion, however that really does NOT look like a "Spread of Photon Torpedoes" 1:43 that was always my complaint with that scene
1:15 🎶Cause when we find we're in a bind...🎶
There’s so many stupid things in this scene it’s crazy.
1. Torpedos are physical weapons you can’t adjust the frequency like with energy weapons.
2. As soon as they shoot through the shields they would rotate the frequency.
3. If a galaxy class fired at will with a couple of torp spreads that BoP would have exploded shields or no shields.
4. Worf recognised defective plasma coil, but didn’t see a way to use that even though he said it was part of the cloak Device and they know the shields drop when a ship cloaks lol
5. Exploding consoles that are no where near the point of weapons fire.
6. Why would they only get one shot at it? Keep doing the pulse until it triggers the cloak.
To mention a few.
What Captian Kirk would have done is fire all weapons. full spread of Phasers and Torpedoes. At least 6 Torpedoes and full phasers. Multiple Phaser Blasts. End of Klingon ship.
So Odyssey survives multi Jemmehadar attack ships firing through their shields but Enterprise is taken out by a busted old bird of prey.
What would have been cool is if the bad guys small ship was in tow next to the enterprise and they fired through the shields and blew it up and it caused massive damage to engineering.
It would've made more sense if their first shot took out the shield generators, that'd explain why noone tried to rotate frequencies.
I don't have an issue with this scene. First, those 2 seconds of vulnerability is just an arbitrary number. Where would 2 seconds have come from? He just meant that they would have to be quick about firing that torpedo. Secondly, how would they know that the shield frequency is the issue. Warf just said, "they have found a way to penetrate our shields." He doesn't know how. To think, "hmm, maybe we should change the shield frequency" would just be a guess as to a solution to the problem.
Since when do torpedoes have frequencies?
0:45 any Weaknesses on that POS Ship ?
WORF: Yeah just Fire at it Till it Blows Up !
That is what Star trek was always supposed to be about.
Anyone else wonder why in 3 separate Star Trek movies they keep using the same exploding Klingon Battle Cruiser blowing up in the same exact way? I get it saves money, but what the hell? Like us Trekkie Nerds wouldn't pick up on this one?
..does seem like a long wait for the enterprise's torpedo to hit the Klingons, but i just always went along with it (like you have to lol).. it's some great shots in the sequence..
but how come the enterprise isn't hammering away at them with the phasers and torpedoes?? just one phaser strike and one torpedo? maybe they set up a reason, i can't remember..
cool editting, thankyou for sharing this 🙂
You'd think a reference to the Klingons targeting a primary weapon system with the first strike. Otherwise just blow them out of the sky
This battle shouldn’t have even been a contest. An 80 year old BOP against the Federation flagship. Even that one phaser burst at the beginning should have rocked the BOP and caused some serious damage. Unless the Duras sisters made some serious modern upgrades, the Klingon ship should have been destroyed in 4, maybe 5 shots.
Well they were the heads of there house. I'm sure they had a small army of house duras scientists and engineers drastically retrofit/upgrade what I assume was supposed to be there personal BoP.
I would have like a full spread of photon torpedo's like Riker commanded Worf to fire. I know it's just a movie. It would have been much more cool as an array of Photon torpedo's blinking their destruction.
Nothing wrong with the original scene. They didn't know the frequency was the problem, I was ok with that. Fifteen seconds - some of which was aboard the BoP sp it wasn't actually that long, could be 7.5 altogether, but the period of vulnerability would be 6.5 to 8.5 seconds from the pulse, Worf knows that's the vulnerable part of the cloaking cycle.
What they DID get right was that these were real Klingons, dirty rotten low down cheats who would do anything to win, like they were in TOS. Not the ridiculous Bushido code warrior race tosh that TNG tried to reset them as. I was glad to see them back!
Try and edit that obvious flaw from the whole series. I'd given up on TNG years before this and only watched the movie because of the TOS link by the way.
"They didn't know the frequency was the problem"
1. It's common sense in the Star Trek universe. Rotate frequencies until you find a setting that works. The USS Odyssey at least tried that, it's just that the polaron beam was naturally unaffected by Federation shields.
2. That still doesn't explain why Riker doesn't just order Worf to "fire all weapons". That 20-year-old ship's shields will collapse in seconds. There's no need for that whole plasma coil bullshit.
And that's not a spread. That's a single torpedo!
You have to transport the Duras sisters out of there for continuity, they show up on DS9 after these events
Fun scene, but there were clearly issues with how it was cut. McCarthy’s dynamic score helped considerably. This re-cut was intriguing! It would also have helped if they hadn’t recycled both the plot element and the BoP explosion from ST VI.
got to admit, the ship full of Klingons look Gangsta as hell, totally look like biker aliens from space, lol....
Fifteen seconds? That must be according to Freeza time.
How I would have written this scene.
>Klingons open fire. and penetrate shields.
>[Red Alert] Warf says they penetrated their shields. He (without given orders) begins changing shield frequencies.
>Riker orders Warf to return fire.
>[after first phaser strike, klingons disable their phasers just before shield frequency change happens]
>[cut to engineering] Geordi is in engieering and his sight crosses the same panel that displays shield frequencies. The klingons see this too and adapt again.
>Riker and Warf realize at this rate the klingons will target their bridge or warp core soon and without their phasers, they'll be destroyed.
>[Torpedo's do little against shields so they need phasers but those are disabled]
>Riker orders the ship to move to make it more difficult to target either the Bridge or the Warp core.
>Eventually Riker, Warf and Data come up with their stratagy to remove their shields and get a torpedo hit on their reactor.
>Riker orders Warf to fire and Data to send the pulse at the same time. That way the torpedo closes the distance while the ship clocks and shields go down.
The Enterprise could still take too much damage and still need to be abandoned. But this movie had many flaws. If this part was handled better. The movie would have been better.
Shields or no shields that bird of prey is going down. Commence rapid fire with all weapons on full BOOM done.
The Enterprise's torpedo wasn't REALLY going that slow. It was meant to be slow-motion.
Also, the "fire at Will" line. Why fire at Will? Worf is the one with his finger on the trigger. Fire at Worf instead.
Although I do like this movie, the entire premise of it is so flawed. Supposedly, Soran can't just fly a ship into the ribbon because such a ship would be destroyed. SO WHAT? I'm sure Soran wouldn't give a damn about the fate of the _ship,_ as long as HE can get into the Nexus and survive. Ummm, isn't that what Kirk did? The ship he was on (the Enterprise "B") was destroyed (at least a part of it) and Kirk survived and was transported into the Nexus. The Enterprise wasn't "grazed" be the actual ribbon, it was damaged by the energy discharge FROM the ribbon. And Kirk survived. So, unlike it was depicted on the mountain top, you don't have to get hit by the actual ribbon to enter the Nexus.
And what does this say about the people on the two El Aurian ships? Did _they_ enter the Nexus prior to the ships exploding?
I've also always wondered if there were any any other people in the destroyed sections of the Enterprise "B" that were ALSO transported to the Nexus. Kirk made it, wouldn't they?
And don't get me started on any other "real" people (like Kirk and Picard, but unlike Picard's family or Antonia) in the Nexus who could leave it at any time and go to any place in time...including a time prior to their own "death".
It's embarrassing that they didn't know how to change shield frequency.
I'm sorry you lost 20 years of sleep over this but the original was fine, Riker was using hyperbole when he said 2 seconds and the movie slowed the torpedo down for dramatic effect.
Mark K it’s incredible how obvious this is and people still get upset about it. The entire original clip had my heart racing because smart people realized that the torpedo scene heightened the tension and fully executed the scene as it should be.
There is literally nothing to suggest Riker was being hyperbolic. If the writers didn't want viewers to believe this, they shouldn't have written such a dumb line.
As for your "dramatic effect" excuse, all it did was make the Klingons look like idiots. As Confused Matthew put it "Nobody take evasive action or anything, we'll just float here and die!"
Dramatic license... badly executed... but still a great scene.
The look on Bator's face as the torpedo closes the distance... is so un-Klingon... but so satisfying to watch.
Since you can't do anything about the fact that it ends with a cheap reuse of the Star Trek VI BoP explosion, or the disgusting performance by Brent Spiner, there's little point in bothering.
yeah among other things. rikers hanlding of the ship. klingons just looking like deer in headlights with the toperdo. etc etc
If only Riker and LaForge didn't have to wear Sisko and O'Brien's hand me downs...they could have moved faster and had the advantage 😂
My dad and I are apparently the only two people in the world who actually like this movie...
I love this movie! I'm just baffled that so many people don't understand this battle. I mean the shield modulation always stays the same,, so even if they change frequency it would have mattered. Like you can see.
It wasn't my favorite of all the Star Trek films, but I didn't have any major problems with it. It was quite entertaining. Most of the minor problems I saw with it had to do with writing/dialog problems and overly dark lighting. It just wasn't quite up to TNG's usual caliber. But it was fun otherwise
I have always love this movie too. I especially love the TOS era sequences and further exploration of the mysterious el'oriens (spelling? You know, Guinan's race). It had a much more Star Trek feeling too it than any of the later movies, even if First Contact was a better movie overall.
Also, I felt they gave the D it's due respect during it's destruction, with a very long crash sequence and plenty of close ups. I cried during that scene the first time I saw it, as the ship was as much a favorite character as any of the bridge crew. Hell, the ship got a grander end than Tasha did, that's for sure.
I always thought it was okay.
@@jurassickaiju14 belive tibor not this was the first star trek movie iverse saw I likevrscngsed you know the star tek logo and emblem thumb becuse my grsndpa ods was huge star trek fan and irember see ing this on VHS for the first time wscthih the previews. Snd jumping them then and for someone reson think it had text crawl like star wars whi h jt did not and thi king some gir tortured innthe nexus ribbon thing and cau g said girl hsir to get al, ver the place which dijdnt hspoen at all and thinking thr horse thing was the end like dud they win and as got ider relised that was just the frst half of the final battle
Yeah this battle and honestly, many battles in Star Trek didn't make sense. Teeny tiny holes getting punched into the hull of the ship but the whole thing freaks out like it's being blasted on all sides. Also, a Galaxy running away from a Bird-of-Prey is the most nonsensical thing ever. The ship has more weapons, more firepower, more hull, and can fire at any angle. The other is built for stealth, speed, and surprise and will never be able to stand up to the type of ship it's fighting. Lore and shows constantly contradict each other and it's infuriating whenever I have to think about it.
Still, the Enterprise D would have survived the battle unlike the Borg cube that might have destroyed the Enterprise D. That Klingon vessel would not have. Maybe the Dominion would have been the best choice for Enterprise D's destruction.
My biggest issue with this scene was the fact that they reused the exploding bird of prey from Star Trek 6 😂 all that budget and they went cheap on one scene
Not really sure how you changed it. It still doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The SECOND that the first disruptor blast went through the "Enterprise's" shields, Riker should have said: "Rotate shield nutation. Lock phasers, load forward torpedo bays. Fire all weapons." Full phaser and torpedo spread= 20-year-old bird-of-prey in debris the size of soup bowls. No need to babble on about "defective plasma coils," or any sort of tricks or nonsense.
1 phaser hit at full power
would've destroyed the
BIRD OF PREY
I like your cut, except I would have taken out the shot of the explosion throwing the stunt/crewman going over the tactical station.
"The way Riker commanded the Enterprise in her final moments is actually shocking. My dead wife could have done a better job. And she's dead."-Harry S. Plinkett, 2008
back when star trek ships
were beautiful
This is f'ing great, thank you for making this battle make sense :)
It's dumb to hate one of the coolest scenes in all of Star Trek just for the sake of being nitpicky.
Also, there's a well-known cinematic convention known as "extending the moment." You should nitpick Eisenstein's "Potemkin" sometime.
actually this scene was awful. it feels quite insulting for the enterprise to go out this way :(
This is a noble effort- only problem now is...the soundtrack/score is now a jumbled, incoherent mess.
Would be even better to insert a random scene from the TNG series where they say "remodulate shields!". And then the blow that bird of prey into pieces. Not sure if it was in this movie or in the series. But Klingons on board of a bird of prey once were very clear about attacking a Galaxy class starship, it would be suicide.
At first though I was a lil lost, but as I saw the scenes you edited unfolding,-- THAT MAKES SOO MUCH SENSE, it’s legit a better scene, narrative-wise
Absolutely, this is spot on shields or no shields the Enterprise would of destroyed it in seconds, Especially when you watch how much fire power they use against the Borg, Typical Star Trek never any real continuity.
They died with honor.
This recut doesn't make sense at all... when riker says they have 2 seconds of vulnerability, it's not a calculated answer it's just a figure of speech in the heat of the moment... could be 1 second or 10. And when they fire the torpedo you see the Klingon sisters looking at each other, it seems like a long time but this is done on purpose. Because when you know your gonna die those 2 second can take a long time, it almost seems like a slow motion moment. It's actually very clever! That is if you understand it... also they can't change the shield frequency because the Klingons know the modulation...
The shield frequency and modulation are the same thing, the two terms are used interchangeably throughout all the series. There's a Memory Alpha article all about it. In the Voyager episode Equinox there was a similar situation that was resolved by remodulating (changing frequency) the shields.
"the Klingons know the modulation"
All right, what if they rotated frequency every 5 seconds? You really think the Klingons would be able to keep up?
This was total crap. The next generation technical manual actually states that shield modulation and frequency are automatically rotated by software programs in the tactical system to prevent this sort of thing from happening!
"Plasma coil....plasma coil..plasma coil..plasma coil
...."
It may well be a croc of shit but I still love it
Fire at Will
Riker XDXD
Still prefer the original but good stuff. Have you a like. I like this movie. It’s a guilty pleasure. Or even a not so guilty pleasure really
torpedoes in spread were together since they all had the same target, everything else is hyperbole, exaggeration, and dramatic effect. no need for re-edit. but you do you, and have fun.