Hey everyone, I accidentally uploaded the wrong video this week. Here's the right one, which explores topics related to childhood trauma, parentification and Alice Miller's "The Drama of the Gifted Child." Hope you enjoy it!
Thank you guys for a beautifully healing and nuanced conversation. It represents such a valuable awareness so needed in the world!! Grateful for your work!
Question: What do you know (or can you find) about the child who grew up more or less having to fill the role of being their own parent because their parents just weren't there for whatever reason?
WOW. Apparently the first time I watched this wasn’t enough to completely open my eyes!! This EXACTLY describes my childhood. I had to emotionally attend to my mom growing up and it kept me from developing my own sense of self. I became so attuned to attaining love through being emotionally sensitive and basically living like a micromanager to other people’s pain. I absorb others emotions like a sponge and have a hard time understanding what I’m feeling most of the time. It’s like the connection to myself is cut off. And you were so right when you said, “When we feel like we need to earn love, we begin to define ourselves through relationship. We aren’t worthy just for being a being… we’re worthy because of what we can do for others.” Hit me like a truck. I’m grieving the childhood I never had. The kid that I never got the chance to be. I see the importance now of validating your inner child. Your podcast is an absolute blessing to my life. Thank you
I've been asked, and often asked myself, "what happened to you as a child?" My answer was, nothing, I had a normal family and childhood... I had a vague sense of 'growing up too soon' and 'parentification' but could never put my finger on it... As an adult I came to understand I got CPTSD in utero, that wasn't the full story however... A few months ago some relatives told me some stories about me a a small child... They said you always had this wise old soul look in your eyes, like you already knew too much... Do you remember when you were 5 and you would feed your 2 siblings and change nappies before you left for school in the mornings...? Suddenly it all made sense... 😞 For generations these types of caregiving roles given to older and often female children were considered normal and ideal... But they also make you responsible before you are ready to be... I've spent my life thinking I was responsible for what everyone else does, what they feel and how they act. Known as 'magical thinking.' I'm trying to heal this part of me now... As you can imagine... the response is not always happy or supportive. But I'm responsible for me and my life now and modelling healthy boundaries for my children. Always healing ❤️ .
I so appreciate the way you both explain the origin of parentification. I felt that I existed to support and protect my beloved parent, but there was never a time when they ordered me to do that. It's not as if the child is under direct duress. The parentification emerges out of the parent's need combined with the child's sensitivity and lovingness.
i struggle w this topic as a parent. I want so much to heal myself but also have 3 grownish kids, twin 19 and a 22. As i observe how my imperfections as a parent have been injurious to my kids I am more able to truly forgive my parents. On the other hand I am still early enough in my healing that it’s important that i don’t just sweep my childhood pain points under the rug in my forgiveness. Also, I definitely grieve for the ways in which I could have been a better parent. ✨GRIEF NOT SHAME✨
@Bekka adair as a child AND parent it can be difficult to unravel. We can extend compassion for ourselves forwards & backwards in the present moment. That will impact our children in the present day. And maybe even our parents. It’s helping me to know that it’s not all on me. Just seeing and accepting the patterns and habits can dissolve them. There’s hope!
You don't have to forgive to lead a happy life. Forgiveness is not the only way forward. People who have no conscience still know what's right or wrong. They are being driven by their trauma response to cross boundaries to get their emotional needs met. They always come first.
I think this whole father/ son psychiatric evaluation podcast is an incredible example of what a good psychologist parent can create. Which really comes down to having a deep understanding of oneself and psychology, enough to implement that in a healthy way for a well balanced personal life. Most parents are working to pay the bills or doing other things in this selfish self serving manner because when they were younger children did not have much freedom at all. Each traumatized upbringing creates a newer way to traumatize the next generation thinking they did better than their parents. Now that psychology is scientific and mainstream the topic of raising children properly is now something that is taken very seriously. So to see this new approach of understanding children and the role parents play being the sole component in how that child will be as an adult being implemented kind of shines a glimmer of hope on humanity here. When a father and son can bond over a topic such as psychology and try to help others together is really a wonderful sight. This can happen and this is what it looks like. I like it.
This was one of the first books that my psychiatrist recommended to me to read, and WOW!! It was spot on! So, thank you for this podcast 🙏 it took me to the next level of understanding this dynamic. I'm 54 and just walked away from my family for the second and last time. It's never too late to "love yourself FIRST". We all deserve peace ✌
I tried to run away when I was 15. My sister told them where I was staying and my parents threatened to call the cops and tell them I had weed. I got scared and went home. I should’ve stayed away! I went no contact over a year ago and it’s been the best thing I ever did. I feel like I’m truly healing now. No new wounds to deal with from the family at least!
@@DonTwanX It's so hard to let go of all we've ever known. But by doing this, we get to know ourselves for the first time. It's like a death and then rebirth. Blessings to you on your journey 🙏
@@DonTwanX Amen! I went back home after running away for reals at 16. Wished I'd stayed away then!! Been trying to disconnect for EVER! It got scary - like life-threatening. In fact the gifts become liabilities used against you!! 57 now and no contact a month and a half from Father, Low-Contact with mother. Feeling pretty good with the balance - this week. Right now... Nightmare narcs. I say: It's Never Too Late To Have A Happy Childhood!!
As the oldest of 4 girls raised in very traumatic family system now in my 60’s I’m trying to acknowledge and heal. Though I tried my adult life to help and maintain some family ties my sisters are unwilling to allow me to be connected. Literally stonewalling and complaining about how terrible I was as a kid. I did eventually resist quite vehemently my dads alcoholic misogynistic rages. I resisted my mother’s emotionally immature demands I take care of her and my sisters needs. Now apparently I’m to blame for my family’s childhood distress. I’m dealing with profound CPTSD fallout despite trying all kinds of inquiry and treatments over my lifetime. Now being the repository for my family’s dysfunction adds to the pain. Rejecting me now that I want to change - seen as “weak” and deserving of the disappointment and disconnection. So much grief. 😢.
These are great podcasts but it does make me think of how much we so need this kind of information to be mainstream and on mainstream media,programmes about child development and families in general...they are so needed.So many people I feel are fumbling thorugh doing their best and scared often to admit they miht need help or are they "doing it right"and just need some back up,support or feedback or reassurance. So much of child rearing isn't about the extreme stuff of obvious child abuse but all the unspoken and unexpressed needs and understanding of various needs within the family system. I so appreciate podcats like these but god we need this to be normalised thorughout society and widely available and watched by many. I really hope this happens one day and we create healthier families and relationships within society.
@@ultravioletpisces3666yes. This is professional level content for those who genuinely want to achieve better quality of emotional and spiritual maturity. It is for a new generation. Whereas mainstream media thrives on creating primal instincts of fear-mongering.
Good morning Forrest. I am now watching each morning. I'm reparenting myself with your family. I just realized that. Love your work. Rick too. What a sweet soul. Cheers
Through this video, I realized my fixation on human development is a product of idealizing parenthood. I made it my life's effort to become my parents' ideal parent. Being a parent I needed isn't my focus. My little kid self saw these agonizing humans and decided they required a loving parent. That little kid had no idea what it meant to be a resilient and fluid human event. Now I can watch that little kid's criticism of my events as an adult, talk them through processes of ruptures and repairs. I can stay aware to intrusive control in the present standing at the helm of the past, and disembark. I'm going to work on honoring the little kid who had to be there.
I have to pause every 5 minutes to cry, but slowly making my way through this episode! thank you always for the thoughtful & expansive discussions from you two.
Thank you. As always profound. Dear Forrest, I don't know if you already have covered this topic. But doesn't it beg the question if people really need to reflect if they are even suitable to be parents!! I don't know, for me this seems pretty obvious that we need to raise huge awareness for people to go through a self, professional and psychological assessment that do they 'qualify' to be a parent. It tears my heart to see that there are no considerations whatsoever for the most most important job in this world, being a parent!! We need that social awareness at the root of everything. Don't we? Or I am being too naiiive. Please shine some light for my burning heart on this topic. Thank you. Much blessings. 🙏🙏
I think you're right. I love my kids but had I known better earlier in life I would choose not to have kids because my husband and I need a lot of healing and not let our kids be part of our trauma. I try my best to be a good parent but at times I fail. Thankfully I am aware of my weakness.
I started reading that book and had to stop because it was SO painful. Fortunately or unfortunately, we were tested and pushed in my school...I became one of the "smart kids"...Thank God...all the kids accepted us and liked us as they did before we "knew". But it triggered something in my "mother"... suddenly I was no longer her "Suzy walker doll" with the long blonde hair..passively letting her dress me up like a toy. Now she was somehow threatened by the assessments my teachers and principal made of me...of my scoring highest French grade..not JUST in the school..but in the CITY! ..and on and on..a "normal" parent would have nurtured that... I became an object of ridicule... "Wait...everyone be quiet...the "sage" wants to speak....." "Whaaaaat....how could a "genius" make a mistake like that?" "You ONLY won second prize in the ( FIRST GRADE) poetry contest?!?" I don't know how I did not kill myself..
Excellent podcast. I have always been in the role of the parent and my mum the child. I’m now in my late 50s and it’s even worse as my mother has totally given up all responsibility ! It is a very heavy load which takes away some of my attention and energy from my own grown up children and husband. I do feel very angry towards her too.
This is one of the best channels on you tube. The father and son discssions are just fantastic....so thoughtful, so considered, so respectful. My value was only ever defined by how I met my covert narcissistic mothers needs and the wrath that would ensue if I couldn't . Its hugely affected my life, my nervous system is shot. Thinking I should buy that book.
the gifted child tends to actually be gifted with a high iq hence why they understand what's going on beyond intuitively knowing , or else the other kids should be playing the same role rather than one parentified, hero , scapegoat main role holder
Absolutely LOVE the relationship you two have! It’s really inspirational and gives me hope that all our damaged relationships can be mended, if not between parent and child, then at least with ourselves. Thanks so much for sharing your own experiences. ❤
Great episode, once again. I identified as a child AND as a parent. And, the wrap-up from Forrest was the icing on the substantial “cake” of a conversation.
While I'm certain it's true that most parents don't manipulate or use their children consciously as emotional props, I need to speak up for those unfortunate ones born to sociopathic parents. These people can be quite intentional in the harm they inflict to keep the children down - they are often sadistic and find joy in the negative emotional impact their behavior has on their own children. I know this because I lived it. It's more common than one might think. Also, even if they don't realize they are doing these sorts of things, that lack of awareness is not exactly excusable. It just takes a little common sense to know that it's not alright to lean on a child for emotional support.
THANK YOU!! for pointing that out! My egg donor was/is a narcissistic sociopath. I remembered as a child of 12 years old, this woman unloading all her emotional garbage unto me. My ears and brain hurt. The routine was, she'd get comfy in her bed, call me over, I'd sit on the edge of the bed and she would talk and talk and talk about everything that's going on in her life. Men problem, money problems, issues with people, ect... I would become so anxious and fearful, it got to a point where death seemed preferable then these "talks". She knew exactly what she was doing. I'm still dealing with issues from this, however it's gotten better since I had a stroke a few years ago and nerve damaged that 'caused damaged to the cells in the part of the brain that contained that experienced. I was under a doctors care when I noticed the change in my response to manipulation. It's really bizarre, but it's the best gift I could have received, ignorance is really bliss 🙏
@@Eliz2011abc We had/have the same Mother. Makes me anxious just reading about it. I am 59 and learning somatic techniques for cultivating a feeling of safety and security within my own body. Godspeed on your healing on all fronts 🙏✝️😇
Thank you again for this discussion. Being both a disabled child, then a parent, and then a divorced parent, this was very eye-opening. Only now in my 60s have I partially repaired my relationship with my son, but I still struggle with my relationship with me.
Look. Most people just never really mature. Especially the story at 13:12. Any “parent” pretending to be dead to get a reaction from their kid to know they are loved is an emotionally immature individual with stunted growth. As I’ve been an adult now for a long while it’s been shocking to me how many people just haven’t grown up. Or are developmentally arrested. I saw it so much at work. Constantly observing that many people never emotionally leave high school. It’s like an epidemic. I’ve had to grow myself up a lot as my upbringing was woefully inadequate in that area. Feeling some release and freedom around it now.
I was the last child by alot of age difference, and my job was to make sure I create an environment for all family members r calm and happy. meanwhile I was a gifted child and had to live for my mother ambitions for all my life
I love watching your podcasts, I really resonated with this one. I’m currently at university doing a counselling and psychotherapy degree and so doing a lot of inner work. It seems I attract guys like my father and the pattern continues, I try to please and in doing so, lose myself. I’m attempting to stop the cycle, but it is hard and a long process it seems! Thank you for your great explanations, they really help.
You two are my dynamic duo. So healing for me to hear this dialogue and subject matter explored between Father and son. It's helpful to me to have it talked about in the "light of day", to take away the shame and help me on my quest to break generational chains. I have much love for you both ❤❤❤. Thank you
This episode made me cry a couple times ... but that's pretty much my normal response to videos like this. I'm currently just over a year into trauma informed therapy w/ a practitioner I hope to continue w/ for yrs, as I have a lot of work to do; I had an authoritarian father that I only saw a handful of hrs a week bc of his work, & even that was too much for me. However, as crap as he was, his presence meant that at least there wasnt another man picked by my mother- my always - in - her - head, negligent, self- obsessed, borderline mother... bc that would have been even more of a nightmare . You and your Dad really compliment ea other very well in what you bring to the discussion. Im so gld I caught this episode. Maybe the 10th of your videos I've seen so far? I look forward to finding the Gabor Mate one, & one day reading the Alice Miller book.
I love how you educate and support but without judgment of anyone on either side of the equation. I think I have lived both sides. I've given and received at times. During emotional times in adulthood I know I was not my best in front of my children repeating patterns of mother. Thank you for bringing to light an explanation so I can learn. Thank you, Forrest and Rick.
Thanks for an illuminating and useful discussion. I was parentified in a similar fashion to Rick. For a while now, I've been running from but sometimes working on how this affected my sense of who I am and what I like or want. You dropped several important clues ... or maybe said some things when I was ready to hear them. I lost both of my parents in the last year, which has brought into sharp focus trying to figure out who I really am, especially without them. My situation was complicated by being a military brat, getting through all the losses involved in moving every year or two, always being the new kid on the block, and having my dad deployed (often to combat; he was a decorated fighter pilot). And always having to be a cheerful trooper about all that. There were a lot of wonderful aspects to growing up this way. I have been a lot of places and have known a lot of people. I learned to be adaptive, resilient, reliant, curious, and able to operate comfortably in different cultures. But I really did have to help my mom hold things together and take care of my younger siblings. And I knew way more about national security alerts than any child should. Duck and cover was quite real to me, as I knew there were Soviet missiles aimed at my base and I knew when the DOD went on alert (which was a lot more than what people generally hear about). So. Suggestion for a podcast subject. How about psychological factors that military families face?
Dear Forest, Thank you for this episode! I realize what the relations between me and my daugther is now. When she was 18, I got brest cancer and you can imagine How was it for her ( I’m a single Mom ). Since then she has been worring about my health and my emotions ( it might started before😅). Warm greetings from Poland!
Notes Ive shared from this podcast - Rick Hanson builds on Diana Baumrind's model of parenting: Parenting envolves the 3 major dimensions of Love, Aspiration, Power. The optimal best odds combination of those 3 are, high Love and high Aspiration, calling your kids to kindness, decency, trying hard, admitting fault, not bring a cheater... and moderate if not even, low assertion of Power, like discipline and punishment." ❤️
Thanks for the topics covered, I have been dealing with all of these and trying to resolve complexities when combined with an abusive ex who is also a psychologist and currently destroying my relationship with our daughter using the family law system here in Australia. There’s trans issues and neglect accusations against me and I’ve been refused all contact against the orders, and I’m trying to make sense of what, how, why, and do I really have to keep doing this, it’s been 13 years since separation. I’m amazed how much I’ve been learning about issues that I would rather not and I have no option but to make it my priority to excel. Interviews like this make it easier because you’re inspiring hope. I hope so much that you do have children, someone as thoughtful should make tiny humans. Even though my life was disrupted by divorce and abuse, I am so blessed that I did have my daughter and we have had so great memories to draw on for confirmation that life can be beautiful. I’m facing these challenges now but they won’t be forever, and if my daughter returns with injuries from medicalisation of her adolescence, I will respond the same as I would when she falls and scraps her knee. I always know how to be the parent who creates safety and confidence. I’m demonstrating every day that this is hard, but we can do hard things.
Hi from Chiba,Japan. I started to watch this channel for the study of English a few weeks ago,but now I'm watching it to learn about human beings. Thank you for the very instructive vedeos.😊
Well done Forrest and Rick! Brilliant episode - and I image that it is very relatable for many listeners/viewers. Thanks for doing a fabulous job Team Hanson and I look forward to hearing more about how we discover that true-self! Keep up the great work.
Great podcast, thanks! You guys have a very non-judgmental and compassionate approach to psychology, which I really appreciate. I understand a lot more about myself and my parents/family now. :)
Thank you so much. I listened to this twice and I’ve already read The Drama of the Gifted Child and have done a lot of therapy. You both clarified the concepts and helped to cement some more supportive thoughts in my mind. I really appreciate your work! I’m the adult stepchild of a now deceased but mentally unwell psychologist (he married my mother, who had been a patient with my father), from an era when psychologists were not required to do their own work - as a result, I have a keen sense of people in the field who have best intentions, people whose voices I feel I can trust. Thank you for that, especially.❤
If you look at the parent being accused of this you usually find they were unloved and disempowered by narcissistic parents. I feel like psychology should extended far into past generations to understand how much we all are influenced by not only our lineage but current epigenetics. To me a lot of the labeling creates false paradigms creating victim mentalities and dissolution of family units. I love the healthy father/son dynamic you bring to the conversation 💜
There are actual victims per se. Ones of violent abuse who endured the choice of that person to continue that abuse to me, so yeah ima victim but chose to walk away and did not continue physical abuse. I couldn’t carry it anymore. Here ya go, here’s all your s**t shame back, I’m on my way to work on what’s actually my own shame. And yay me, it’s not as much as the shame you have that you tried to get me (the gifted child) to carry for you. I hope ur ego don’t explode cuz your S**T is very heavy. I’ll be praying for you from far away. Bye bye
At some point, the abuser makes a choice. They know they were abused, they’re very aware, and they make a conscious effort to continue the cycle. Now that they know the tricks and rules and have the upper hand, they take that advantage and use against their own children…babies. They chose to hurt their own rather than take any semblance of accountability. The fact that most of this abuse is done in the privacy of their home and not at PTA meetings is proof that they know what they’re doing, they know it’s wrong, but it’s easier to manipulate and blame a child and ruin them for life than it is to address their own issues. There is no excuse. Sometimes, many times, the dissolution of these families is the best thing for them and the world they’ve infected for so long.
Are you talking about generational trauma? Generational trauma is the harmful effects of historical mistreatment or abuse. The symptoms of these traumas are passed down from generation to generation. Generational trauma can be passed down through DNA to family members. Some people may be predisposed to it, but it’s important to remember that not everyone who experiences intergenerational trauma has symptoms related to their experience. Many factors are at play regarding inherited trauma, including resilience, support systems, and resource access. Some of the trauma may or may not have been experienced by each person in the family, but how family members who’ve experienced the trauma raise their children or interact with other family members affects the path of others’ lives. This could be because a mother or parents were hit by their parents or live in an unsafe neighborhood and are fearful for their child all the time that their child develops fears associated with their parents’ fears. This can also be because their parents are using substances to block out some of the effects from the trauma, and the children learn not to discuss their feelings but to mask them using substances as well
So..what are you really saying? How do you go from staying the hell away from crazy making people, aka parents, a daughter? Yes, knowing and understanding how these people these related people ended up the mean, gas lighting people. But, when they refuse to come to the realization how their behavior affects me and others, then what??
Another gem! I've shared ❤ I love Rick's line "There's an equilibrium of a particular storyline that tends to resist change. Because it serves functions, as it is for key powerful people in it, notably the parents." Gifted Child who has been given the family Scapegoat role here. I'm learning so much and getting so much healing from your work. So happy to see your subscribers have increased steadily since I've been listening ❤ Keep doing your amazing work guys, you're reaching the right people 🎉
Thank you, I love your podcasts and you bring so much value with your loving and kind way of sharing what your know through research and experience. Blessings to you both and the entire world that is surely evolving towards becoming a big family hopefully very soon💜🌈
Whoa! Interesting! 😂 this is so me! I mean I feel high functioning and I feel blessed for something’s in my childhood, I felt loved. I’ve joked saying I helped to raise my mom but never thought it really affected me. I’ll have to look more into this. And thank you so much for also acknowledging that as children, we play a role in the family as well. As children we can be coming from the same family and react very differently to the same parenting. Also, there are two parents involved, and a child can take on the disposition and personality traits of one parent that may be very different than yours.
The beautiful way you two model a loving, respectful parent-child relationship has as much healing power for me as the excellent content you provide ❤ Thank you 🙏🏻
Thank you for this podcast I needed it! Can you do one, or perhaps you have, when helper adults need to then care for aging parents. How to hold on to self? Also, clarity on how to support your podcast in the notes, I’d like to. Perhaps I missed it. So much gratitude! I use your book “Resilient” in my college classes and students love it.
I love you guys.. thank you so much for the generosity you offer in your work. I have benefited so much from your work and this episode is especially resonant as I unravel deeper aspects of my childhood experience. How I wish I could have had the type of relationship you guys have but, yes, as you say grief not shame.
Thank you for this profound information! I wish I had this insight 40 years ago. But, never too late to change ourselves, becomming who we intended to be. 🙏
Hiii (really excited happy sounds) I am so grateful TH-cam recommended this video. I got touched emotionally when you said my dad 🥺. My father recently passed away, sooo this is OUR dad now 😊 The podcast was informational and comforting to listen to. Thank you for the work you do
Hey Forest and Rick, great show. Love the way you put ideas and topics forward. My business partner framed your summary quite nicely in that he says “you are a Human-BEING not a Human-Doing” therefore love should not be conditional to the latter.
I love listening to your podcasts and how you both approach these issues with so much depth and especially empathy. PLEASE READ THIS Have you ever heard of any research on twins where one was mentally unstable and it’s effect on the the other as an adult? The primary goal of my family was to never offend my twin sister. My mother hated my friends because they didn’t like my sister and there are so many things that I can’t list them here. Sometimes I feel like I have destroyed my life because of caring for my sister and everyone else to my detriment. After my most recent traumatic marriage and divorce I am so broken. My twin is in an assisted living facility in the state I just moved from because I was running from my husband because I felt like I was being destroyed from the inside out. I had to leave before there was nothing left of me but I may have failed. I am actually a master-prepared nurse who had to flee before getting my doctorate program completed leaving me without clinicals and the inability to work as a nurse practitioner. I feel like I have struggled against everything and everyone who has tried to hold me back and still trying to help my twin and everyone else. Can you see why this is so complicated? My twin had a brain tumor, has been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, and she has dissociative identity disorder believe it or not. She won’t accept either of those diagnoses but I have realized that she has manifested symptoms of both even when we were kids. I graduated with a 4.0 GPA from both my undergraduate and graduate degrees. I tell you that because it’s probably a manifestation of me trying to be worthy of self love and love from others. It didn’t work! I’m so broken and alone that I don’t know who I am or how to move forward. I ran to another state, had to quickly by a house because I couldn’t afford to rent. My home has had so many problems since I moved here in August, not even a year later. My body is failing in weird ways and I need to get going to a doctor appointment to review one of my many body parts images that are a disaster. I also have a guy coming to look at possibly water in my basement. I have to stop here but I have only skimmed the surface. I guess I am asking for any information that might help me know who I am and how to feel like I’m worth moving forward. 😢
just popped up today.Sat with what you were talking about. Had no emotions in childhood,wasn't allowed by social worker dad and volatile mom. At 3 wasn't fed,mocked if ate fast, was left in stacks of library while grad student dad did whatever, got in trouble with librarian for rearranging 3 shelves of books according to color. At 4 was punished for feeding sib potting soil as were locked out on porch and she screamed in hunger. But I was the failure always until Stanford testing was something I didn't know how to throw. At 27 I started a crisis nursery in the town where I was a hungry 3yo, at 29 excised them from my life. Still not sure who I really am after lots of therapy, reading, reparenting myself . Do know people are not good.
thank you for this podcast session. I was watching it this morning and it resonated with me so much. the issues you raised were very relevent to me at this point in time.
I recently came across your videos and I really find the practical examples and even benchmarks for certain healing approaches and behaviors helpful. I'm wondering if either of you are familiar with complex ptsd and PNEWS. I am experiencing these because I grew up in a highly toxic and dysfunctional home and my nervous system has gone haywire. I been going to therapy for almost ten years and it's helped a bit but no one has really gotten what I'm going through or helped me figure out what I need to do to heal.
Love you guys. I rarely share channels I like with friends, but I’ve shared this one twice already. Also read the Alice Miller book many years ago - it hit the spot a lot.
Another amazing episode (just heard it on Spotify, ) but came to ask, how can we think about being loved post having to earn It? Don't people love people because they 'do' something for them, even if that is merely tickling their fancy? How does healthy love work?
One of the most painful myths for people to move on from is the myth of "unconditional love." The only love that I can think of as being truly unconditional is that of a parent for their newborn child. The parent loves the child without expecting anything in return. If anything, they anticipate a great deal of work and frustration! So, yes, all love in healthy adult relationships is in some sense conditional. The mistake people make is they hear that word and think that healthy love must be this dry, "tit-for-tat" kind of thing, which wouldn't be further from the truth. Healthy love assumes that each individual in the system has value. It assumes that each individual has the autonomy to make their own choices. And it assumes that the underlying desire of everyone in the system is to support all others in the system. If those assumptions get violated by a member of the system, it's up to each person to decide how to move forward. Maybe it's by continuing to "love" the other person, but the size and scope of the relationship changes. Maybe it's by no longer loving the other person. The whole point of autonomy is that it's up to them - I'm certainly not going to dictate to anyone how to love. Emotions are complex. Just knowing that someone else is bad for you, or is taking advantage of your love, doesn't necessarily stop you from continuing to love them. But my personal view is that those forms of love are much closer to psychological entanglement, trauma bonding, and so on than they are to healthy love.
You guys are awesome. I am a dad with a toddler and 7 month old and am taking a lot away from this. Your dynamic is beautiful also. I wish I had that same dynamic with my mom and dad. My goal is to have an unconditional love relationship with my kids and I'm learning how to be kinder to myself as well. Huge fan!
Reading a book by Jenn Granneman who recommends Hardwiring Happiness: The New Brain Science of Contentment, Calm and Confidence by Rick Hanson. My next read! Love your podcast, thx
My story too 💯, with an alcoholic, narcissist, pedophile father and an emotionally disregulated mother. Read Miller’s book, made total sense. In high school, when family preparation is discussed, it should be drummed into every student’s mind: Your child is not here to serve your needs. You are here to serve the child’s.
Interesting. What about children of neglect or children who suffer the death of a parent? They (we) do not define ourselves in terms of relationship because there are no relationships.
The relationship is always with the primary caregiver, whoever that may be, and there can be more than one person in a child’s life, each being a substitute for the first which we assume is always the mother (except with death in childbirth). The child will keep trying to attach to whoever is available.
Hey everyone, I accidentally uploaded the wrong video this week. Here's the right one, which explores topics related to childhood trauma, parentification and Alice Miller's "The Drama of the Gifted Child." Hope you enjoy it!
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Thank you guys for a beautifully healing and nuanced conversation. It represents such a valuable awareness so needed in the world!! Grateful for your work!
Exceptionally elucidative 👍🏼
Everything, every journey, proves how really one we deeply, truly are!
Question: What do you know (or can you find) about the child who grew up more or less having to fill the role of being their own parent because their parents just weren't there for whatever reason?
WOW. Apparently the first time I watched this wasn’t enough to completely open my eyes!!
This EXACTLY describes my childhood. I had to emotionally attend to my mom growing up and it kept me from developing my own sense of self. I became so attuned to attaining love through being emotionally sensitive and basically living like a micromanager to other people’s pain. I absorb others emotions like a sponge and have a hard time understanding what I’m feeling most of the time. It’s like the connection to myself is cut off. And you were so right when you said,
“When we feel like we need to earn love, we begin to define ourselves through relationship. We aren’t worthy just for being a being… we’re worthy because of what we can do for others.”
Hit me like a truck. I’m grieving the childhood I never had. The kid that I never got the chance to be. I see the importance now of validating your inner child. Your podcast is an absolute blessing to my life. Thank you
I've been asked, and often asked myself, "what happened to you as a child?" My answer was, nothing, I had a normal family and childhood... I had a vague sense of 'growing up too soon' and 'parentification' but could never put my finger on it... As an adult I came to understand I got CPTSD in utero, that wasn't the full story however...
A few months ago some relatives told me some stories about me a a small child... They said you always had this wise old soul look in your eyes, like you already knew too much...
Do you remember when you were 5 and you would feed your 2 siblings and change nappies before you left for school in the mornings...? Suddenly it all made sense... 😞
For generations these types of caregiving roles given to older and often female children were considered normal and ideal... But they also make you responsible before you are ready to be... I've spent my life thinking I was responsible for what everyone else does, what they feel and how they act. Known as 'magical thinking.'
I'm trying to heal this part of me now... As you can imagine... the response is not always happy or supportive. But I'm responsible for me and my life now and modelling healthy boundaries for my children. Always healing ❤️ .
Well said. ❤ I can relate to what you said.
I love seeing a father and son being so comfortable to talk about emotions! Very refreshing!
I so appreciate the way you both explain the origin of parentification. I felt that I existed to support and protect my beloved parent, but there was never a time when they ordered me to do that. It's not as if the child is under direct duress. The parentification emerges out of the parent's need combined with the child's sensitivity and lovingness.
i struggle w this topic as a parent. I want so much to heal myself but also have 3 grownish kids, twin 19 and a 22. As i observe how my imperfections as a parent have been injurious to my kids I am more able to truly forgive my parents. On the other hand I am still early enough in my healing that it’s important that i don’t just sweep my childhood pain points under the rug in my forgiveness. Also, I definitely grieve for the ways in which I could have been a better parent.
✨GRIEF NOT SHAME✨
@Bekka adair as a child AND parent it can be difficult to unravel. We can extend compassion for ourselves forwards & backwards in the present moment. That will impact our children in the present day. And maybe even our parents. It’s helping me to know that it’s not all on me. Just seeing and accepting the patterns and habits can dissolve them. There’s hope!
You don't have to forgive to lead a happy life. Forgiveness is not the only way forward. People who have no conscience still know what's right or wrong. They are being driven by their trauma response to cross boundaries to get their emotional needs met. They always come first.
I think this whole father/ son psychiatric evaluation podcast is an incredible example of what a good psychologist parent can create.
Which really comes down to having a deep understanding of oneself and psychology, enough to implement that in a healthy way for a well balanced personal life.
Most parents are working to pay the bills or doing other things in this selfish self serving manner because when they were younger children did not have much freedom at all. Each traumatized upbringing creates a newer way to traumatize the next generation thinking they did better than their parents. Now that psychology is scientific and mainstream the topic of raising children properly is now something that is taken very seriously. So to see this new approach of understanding children and the role parents play being the sole component in how that child will be as an adult being implemented kind of shines a glimmer of hope on humanity here. When a father and son can bond over a topic such as psychology and try to help others together is really a wonderful sight. This can happen and this is what it looks like. I like it.
Great comment
Thanks
This was one of the first books that my psychiatrist recommended to me to read, and WOW!! It was spot on! So, thank you for this podcast 🙏 it took me to the next level of understanding this dynamic. I'm 54 and just walked away from my family for the second and last time. It's never too late to "love yourself FIRST". We all deserve peace ✌
I tried to run away when I was 15. My sister told them where I was staying and my parents threatened to call the cops and tell them I had weed. I got scared and went home. I should’ve stayed away! I went no contact over a year ago and it’s been the best thing I ever did. I feel like I’m truly healing now. No new wounds to deal with from the family at least!
@@DonTwanX It's so hard to let go of all we've ever known. But by doing this, we get to know ourselves for the first time. It's like a death and then rebirth. Blessings to you on your journey 🙏
@@DonTwanX Amen! I went back home after running away for reals at 16. Wished I'd stayed away then!! Been trying to disconnect for EVER! It got scary - like life-threatening.
In fact the gifts become liabilities used against you!!
57 now and no contact a month and a half from Father, Low-Contact with mother. Feeling pretty good with the balance - this week. Right now... Nightmare narcs.
I say: It's Never Too Late To Have A Happy Childhood!!
I m really sorry you had to move away at this age ... I wish it has happened long before :(
As the oldest of 4 girls raised in very traumatic family system now in my 60’s I’m trying to acknowledge and heal. Though I tried my adult life to help and maintain some family ties my sisters are unwilling to allow me to be connected. Literally stonewalling and complaining about how terrible I was as a kid. I did eventually resist quite vehemently my dads alcoholic misogynistic rages. I resisted my mother’s emotionally immature demands I take care of her and my sisters needs. Now apparently I’m to blame for my family’s childhood distress. I’m dealing with profound CPTSD fallout despite trying all kinds of inquiry and treatments over my lifetime. Now being the repository for my family’s dysfunction adds to the pain. Rejecting me now that I want to change - seen as “weak” and deserving of the disappointment and disconnection. So much grief. 😢.
These are great podcasts but it does make me think of how much we so need this kind of information to be mainstream and on mainstream media,programmes about child development and families in general...they are so needed.So many people I feel are fumbling thorugh doing their best and scared often to admit they miht need help or are they "doing it right"and just need some back up,support or feedback or reassurance.
So much of child rearing isn't about the extreme stuff of obvious child abuse but all the unspoken and unexpressed needs and understanding of various needs within the family system.
I so appreciate podcats like these but god we need this to be normalised thorughout society and widely available and watched by many.
I really hope this happens one day and we create healthier families and relationships within society.
Beautifully said and I totally agree 👏🏻
Yes Upanda, I agree 100%- well said
Mainstream is always gonna be shallow dr Phil kinda stuff
@@ultravioletpisces3666yes. This is professional level content for those who genuinely want to achieve better quality of emotional and spiritual maturity. It is for a new generation. Whereas mainstream media thrives on creating primal instincts of fear-mongering.
Good morning Forrest. I am now watching each morning. I'm reparenting myself with your family. I just realized that. Love your work. Rick too. What a sweet soul. Cheers
Also want to say kudos to Rick, as a parent, doing inner child work is terrifying. Much love.
Instead of asking what’s wrong with you… ask, what happened to you. Amazing, insightful book. 24:08
Through this video, I realized my fixation on human development is a product of idealizing parenthood. I made it my life's effort to become my parents' ideal parent. Being a parent I needed isn't my focus. My little kid self saw these agonizing humans and decided they required a loving parent. That little kid had no idea what it meant to be a resilient and fluid human event. Now I can watch that little kid's criticism of my events as an adult, talk them through processes of ruptures and repairs. I can stay aware to intrusive control in the present standing at the helm of the past, and disembark. I'm going to work on honoring the little kid who had to be there.
I have to pause every 5 minutes to cry, but slowly making my way through this episode! thank you always for the thoughtful & expansive discussions from you two.
Thank you. As always profound. Dear Forrest, I don't know if you already have covered this topic. But doesn't it beg the question if people really need to reflect if they are even suitable to be parents!! I don't know, for me this seems pretty obvious that we need to raise huge awareness for people to go through a self, professional and psychological assessment that do they 'qualify' to be a parent. It tears my heart to see that there are no considerations whatsoever for the most most important job in this world, being a parent!! We need that social awareness at the root of everything. Don't we? Or I am being too naiiive. Please shine some light for my burning heart on this topic. Thank you. Much blessings. 🙏🙏
I decided not to parent, knowing that my human development had big gaps. And I was still a child in emotional parts.
I think you're right. I love my kids but had I known better earlier in life I would choose not to have kids because my husband and I need a lot of healing and not let our kids be part of our trauma. I try my best to be a good parent but at times I fail. Thankfully I am aware of my weakness.
I started reading that book and had to stop because it was SO painful.
Fortunately or unfortunately, we were tested and pushed in my school...I became one of the "smart kids"...Thank God...all the kids accepted us and liked us as they did before we "knew".
But it triggered something in my "mother"...
suddenly I was no longer her "Suzy walker doll" with the long blonde hair..passively letting her dress me up like a toy.
Now she was somehow threatened by the assessments my teachers and principal made of me...of my scoring highest French grade..not JUST in the school..but in the CITY!
..and on and on..a "normal" parent would have nurtured that...
I became an object of ridicule...
"Wait...everyone be quiet...the "sage" wants to speak....."
"Whaaaaat....how could a "genius" make a mistake like that?"
"You ONLY won second prize in the ( FIRST GRADE) poetry contest?!?"
I don't know how I did not kill myself..
💔💔😢
That’s awful, poor little girl.. 🥰
I’m sorry you had to suffer that way. May you have peace
hmmjrrksgdpa
Excellent podcast. I have always been in the role of the parent and my mum the child. I’m now in my late 50s and it’s even worse as my mother has totally given up all responsibility ! It is a very heavy load which takes away some of my attention and energy from my own grown up children and husband. I do feel very angry towards her too.
Hey Cathy,
Your message spoke to me, I feel compassion for you x best wishes as you navigate this ❤
@@yvonnegallogly1877 Thank you Yvonne. Lovely to have support. xxx
This is one of the best channels on you tube. The father and son discssions are just fantastic....so thoughtful, so considered, so respectful. My value was only ever defined by how I met my covert narcissistic mothers needs and the wrath that would ensue if I couldn't . Its hugely affected my life, my nervous system is shot. Thinking I should buy that book.
the gifted child tends to actually be gifted with a high iq hence why they understand what's going on beyond intuitively knowing , or else the other kids should be playing the same role rather than one parentified, hero , scapegoat main role holder
Absolutely LOVE the relationship you two have! It’s really inspirational and gives me hope that all our damaged relationships can be mended, if not between parent and child, then at least with ourselves. Thanks so much for sharing your own experiences. ❤
Great episode, once again. I identified as a child AND as a parent. And, the wrap-up from Forrest was the icing on the substantial “cake” of a conversation.
Thank you!
While I'm certain it's true that most parents don't manipulate or use their children consciously as emotional props, I need to speak up for those unfortunate ones born to sociopathic parents. These people can be quite intentional in the harm they inflict to keep the children down - they are often sadistic and find joy in the negative emotional impact their behavior has on their own children. I know this because I lived it. It's more common than one might think.
Also, even if they don't realize they are doing these sorts of things, that lack of awareness is not exactly excusable. It just takes a little common sense to know that it's not alright to lean on a child for emotional support.
Oh goodness, I feel ya and yeah it upsets me when ppl try to tell me that did their best when u saw and watched the pleasure they got out of it.
THANK YOU!! for pointing that out! My egg donor was/is a narcissistic sociopath. I remembered as a child of 12 years old, this woman unloading all her emotional garbage unto me. My ears and brain hurt. The routine was, she'd get comfy in her bed, call me over, I'd sit on the edge of the bed and she would talk and talk and talk about everything that's going on in her life. Men problem, money problems, issues with people, ect... I would become so anxious and fearful, it got to a point where death seemed preferable then these "talks". She knew exactly what she was doing. I'm still dealing with issues from this, however it's gotten better since I had a stroke a few years ago and nerve damaged that 'caused damaged to the cells in the part of the brain that contained that experienced. I was under a doctors care when I noticed the change in my response to manipulation. It's really bizarre, but it's the best gift I could have received, ignorance is really bliss 🙏
@@Eliz2011abc We had/have the same Mother. Makes me anxious just reading about it. I am 59 and learning somatic techniques for cultivating a feeling of safety and security within my own body. Godspeed on your healing on all fronts 🙏✝️😇
Thank you again for this discussion. Being both a disabled child, then a parent, and then a divorced parent, this was very eye-opening. Only now in my 60s have I partially repaired my relationship with my son, but I still struggle with my relationship with me.
Look. Most people just never really mature. Especially the story at 13:12. Any “parent” pretending to be dead to get a reaction from their kid to know they are loved is an emotionally immature individual with stunted growth. As I’ve been an adult now for a long while it’s been shocking to me how many people just haven’t grown up. Or are developmentally arrested. I saw it so much at work. Constantly observing that many people never emotionally leave high school. It’s like an epidemic.
I’ve had to grow myself up a lot as my upbringing was woefully inadequate in that area. Feeling some release and freedom around it now.
Thanks guys,
This has helped me immensely to understand a subtle, yet powerful dynamic which has mushroomed into something I didn't see coming.
I was the last child by alot of age difference, and my job was to make sure I create an environment for all family members r calm and happy. meanwhile I was a gifted child and had to live for my mother ambitions for all my life
I love watching your podcasts, I really resonated with this one. I’m currently at university doing a counselling and psychotherapy degree and so doing a lot of inner work. It seems I attract guys like my father and the pattern continues, I try to please and in doing so, lose myself. I’m attempting to stop the cycle, but it is hard and a long process it seems! Thank you for your great explanations, they really help.
You two are my dynamic duo. So healing for me to hear this dialogue and subject matter explored between Father and son. It's helpful to me to have it talked about in the "light of day", to take away the shame and help me on my quest to break generational chains. I have much love for you both ❤❤❤. Thank you
11:04 understanding my mom did the best she could truly showed me to forgive and have empathy for her pain.
This episode made me cry a couple times ... but that's pretty much my normal response to videos like this. I'm currently just over a year into trauma informed therapy w/ a practitioner I hope to continue w/ for yrs, as I have a lot of work to do; I had an authoritarian father that I only saw a handful of hrs a week bc of his work, & even that was too much for me. However, as crap as he was, his presence meant that at least there wasnt another man picked by my mother- my always - in - her - head, negligent, self- obsessed, borderline mother... bc that would have been even more of a nightmare .
You and your Dad really compliment ea other very well in what you bring to the discussion.
Im so gld I caught this episode. Maybe the 10th of your videos I've seen so far? I look forward to finding the Gabor Mate one, & one day reading the Alice Miller book.
What a beautiful gift to hear a papa and son relate so sweetly 🙏🏽💖 Thank you
I love how you educate and support but without judgment of anyone on either side of the equation. I think I have lived both sides. I've given and received at times. During emotional times in adulthood I know I was not my best in front of my children repeating patterns of mother. Thank you for bringing to light an explanation so I can learn. Thank you, Forrest and Rick.
Thanks for an illuminating and useful discussion. I was parentified in a similar fashion to Rick. For a while now, I've been running from but sometimes working on how this affected my sense of who I am and what I like or want. You dropped several important clues ... or maybe said some things when I was ready to hear them. I lost both of my parents in the last year, which has brought into sharp focus trying to figure out who I really am, especially without them.
My situation was complicated by being a military brat, getting through all the losses involved in moving every year or two, always being the new kid on the block, and having my dad deployed (often to combat; he was a decorated fighter pilot). And always having to be a cheerful trooper about all that. There were a lot of wonderful aspects to growing up this way. I have been a lot of places and have known a lot of people. I learned to be adaptive, resilient, reliant, curious, and able to operate comfortably in different cultures. But I really did have to help my mom hold things together and take care of my younger siblings. And I knew way more about national security alerts than any child should. Duck and cover was quite real to me, as I knew there were Soviet missiles aimed at my base and I knew when the DOD went on alert (which was a lot more than what people generally hear about).
So. Suggestion for a podcast subject. How about psychological factors that military families face?
Dear Forest, Thank you for this episode! I realize what the relations between me and my daugther is now. When she was 18, I got brest cancer and you can imagine How was it for her ( I’m a single Mom ). Since then she has been worring about my health and my emotions ( it might started before😅). Warm greetings from Poland!
wow You guys have done it again, thank You both!!
Notes Ive shared from this podcast - Rick Hanson builds on Diana Baumrind's model of parenting: Parenting envolves the 3 major dimensions of Love, Aspiration, Power. The optimal best odds combination of those 3 are, high Love and high Aspiration, calling your kids to kindness, decency, trying hard, admitting fault, not bring a cheater... and moderate if not even, low assertion of Power, like discipline and punishment." ❤️
Thanks for the topics covered, I have been dealing with all of these and trying to resolve complexities when combined with an abusive ex who is also a psychologist and currently destroying my relationship with our daughter using the family law system here in Australia. There’s trans issues and neglect accusations against me and I’ve been refused all contact against the orders, and I’m trying to make sense of what, how, why, and do I really have to keep doing this, it’s been 13 years since separation. I’m amazed how much I’ve been learning about issues that I would rather not and I have no option but to make it my priority to excel. Interviews like this make it easier because you’re inspiring hope. I hope so much that you do have children, someone as thoughtful should make tiny humans. Even though my life was disrupted by divorce and abuse, I am so blessed that I did have my daughter and we have had so great memories to draw on for confirmation that life can be beautiful. I’m facing these challenges now but they won’t be forever, and if my daughter returns with injuries from medicalisation of her adolescence, I will respond the same as I would when she falls and scraps her knee. I always know how to be the parent who creates safety and confidence. I’m demonstrating every day that this is hard, but we can do hard things.
Very intuitive of you- setting a great example for me as I realize I can overcome a similar situation in my family
Hi from Chiba,Japan.
I started to watch this channel for the study of English a few weeks ago,but now I'm watching it to learn about human beings.
Thank you for the very instructive vedeos.😊
Such profound, rich content that the world needs more of. Transparent, intelligent, honest dialog founded on solid understanding. Thank you!
Well done Forrest and Rick! Brilliant episode - and I image that it is very relatable for many listeners/viewers. Thanks for doing a fabulous job Team Hanson and I look forward to hearing more about how we discover that true-self! Keep up the great work.
Rick retelling story of my life at 13:11. So so similar.
Thank you so much to both of you
Great podcast, thanks! You guys have a very non-judgmental and compassionate approach to psychology, which I really appreciate. I understand a lot more about myself and my parents/family now. :)
I love your Dad! I love the obviously close and very loving relationship you two have!🌟
Thank you so much. I listened to this twice and I’ve already read The Drama of the Gifted Child and have done a lot of therapy. You both clarified the concepts and helped to cement some more supportive thoughts in my mind. I really appreciate your work! I’m the adult stepchild of a now deceased but mentally unwell psychologist (he married my mother, who had been a patient with my father), from an era when psychologists were not required to do their own work - as a result, I have a keen sense of people in the field who have best intentions, people whose voices I feel I can trust. Thank you for that, especially.❤
Ooof. The mom is my best friend... That, uh, that is on the mark. I need to sit with this video and what I've learned.
I would love to see that episode on knowing what are your wants and needs.
Watching this episode was very therapeutic for me. Thank you so much.
If you look at the parent being accused of this you usually find they were unloved and disempowered by narcissistic parents. I feel like psychology should extended far into past generations to understand how much we all are influenced by not only our lineage but current epigenetics. To me a lot of the labeling creates false paradigms creating victim mentalities and dissolution of family units. I love the healthy father/son dynamic you bring to the conversation 💜
The dissolution of family is such a sad thing for me.
There are actual victims per se. Ones of violent abuse who endured the choice of that person to continue that abuse to me, so yeah ima victim but chose to walk away and did not continue physical abuse. I couldn’t carry it anymore. Here ya go, here’s all your s**t shame back, I’m on my way to work on what’s actually my own shame. And yay me, it’s not as much as the shame you have that you tried to get me (the gifted child) to carry for you. I hope ur ego don’t explode cuz your S**T is very heavy. I’ll be praying for you from far away. Bye bye
At some point, the abuser makes a choice. They know they were abused, they’re very aware, and they make a conscious effort to continue the cycle. Now that they know the tricks and rules and have the upper hand, they take that advantage and use against their own children…babies. They chose to hurt their own rather than take any semblance of accountability. The fact that most of this abuse is done in the privacy of their home and not at PTA meetings is proof that they know what they’re doing, they know it’s wrong, but it’s easier to manipulate and blame a child and ruin them for life than it is to address their own issues. There is no excuse. Sometimes, many times, the dissolution of these families is the best thing for them and the world they’ve infected for so long.
Are you talking about generational trauma? Generational trauma is the harmful effects of historical mistreatment or abuse. The symptoms of these traumas are passed down from generation to generation.
Generational trauma can be passed down through DNA to family members. Some people may be predisposed to it, but it’s important to remember that not everyone who experiences intergenerational trauma has symptoms related to their experience. Many factors are at play regarding inherited trauma, including resilience, support systems, and resource access.
Some of the trauma may or may not have been experienced by each person in the family, but how family members who’ve experienced the trauma raise their children or interact with other family members affects the path of others’ lives. This could be because a mother or parents were hit by their parents or live in an unsafe neighborhood and are fearful for their child all the time that their child develops fears associated with their parents’ fears. This can also be because their parents are using substances to block out some of the effects from the trauma, and the children learn not to discuss their feelings but to mask them using substances as well
So..what are you really saying? How do you go from staying the hell away from crazy making people, aka parents, a daughter? Yes, knowing and understanding how these people these related people ended up the mean, gas lighting people. But, when they refuse to come to the realization how their behavior affects me and others, then what??
Thanks!
Another gem! I've shared ❤ I love Rick's line "There's an equilibrium of a particular storyline that tends to resist change. Because it serves functions, as it is for key powerful people in it, notably the parents." Gifted Child who has been given the family Scapegoat role here. I'm learning so much and getting so much healing from your work. So happy to see your subscribers have increased steadily since I've been listening ❤ Keep doing your amazing work guys, you're reaching the right people 🎉
Thank You!! Your channel is one worth passing on and listening too!
Dang u just described my mom. I ended up moving to another state to get away from all this.
I moved to another country!! She still managed to wreak havoc in my life, unknowingly to me. I’m working I’m forgiving her
Out of all the podcasts on the internet I'm very excited about your format. I think the father-son dynamic is very intriguing.
Whoa, I need this video. I'm trying to remember who I am after taking care of my mom for eight years.
Thank you, I love your podcasts and you bring so much value with your loving and kind way of sharing what your know through research and experience. Blessings to you both and the entire world that is surely evolving towards becoming a big family hopefully very soon💜🌈
Whoa! Interesting! 😂 this is so me! I mean I feel high functioning and I feel blessed for something’s in my childhood, I felt loved. I’ve joked saying I helped to raise my mom but never thought it really affected me. I’ll have to look more into this. And thank you so much for also acknowledging that as children, we play a role in the family as well. As children we can be coming from the same family and react very differently to the same parenting. Also, there are two parents involved, and a child can take on the disposition and personality traits of one parent that may be very different than yours.
The beautiful way you two model a loving, respectful parent-child relationship has as much healing power for me as the excellent content you provide ❤
Thank you 🙏🏻
I appreciate these two SO much! My favorite podcast on the web ♥️
exceptional - as usual. with deepest thanks
Thank you for this podcast I needed it! Can you do one, or perhaps you have, when helper adults need to then care for aging parents. How to hold on to self? Also, clarity on how to support your podcast in the notes, I’d like to. Perhaps I missed it. So much gratitude! I use your book “Resilient” in my college classes and students love it.
Powerful and healing. I love your insight. It will help me unravel what happened to me
This was incredible... Thank you...
I love you guys.. thank you so much for the generosity you offer in your work. I have benefited so much from your work and this episode is especially resonant as I unravel deeper aspects of my childhood experience. How I wish I could have had the type of relationship you guys have but, yes, as you say grief not shame.
wow, thank-you very, very much. I love your work and it is very helpful. ❤❤
Wow, what a beautiful interview. Thank you. ❤
You guys are amazing. Thank you.
this presentation is very touching many ways. thank you so so so much.
Wow, thank you. Can’t wait to read the book.
So wonderful this is helping generations .
Thank you 🌞🇨🇦💜
Thank you, great content and very well done!
Thank you for this I had a huge revelation about myself and what happened to me as a child. Thank you for sharing this! ❤
Thanks soooo much for this❣️
Thank you for this profound information! I wish I had this insight 40 years ago. But, never too late to change ourselves, becomming who we intended to be. 🙏
Hiii (really excited happy sounds)
I am so grateful TH-cam recommended this video. I got touched emotionally when you said my dad 🥺. My father recently passed away, sooo this is OUR dad now 😊
The podcast was informational and comforting to listen to. Thank you for the work you do
Thank you ☺️
Awesome video! Thank you so much!
I'm just loving videos on your channel. So much wisdom!!! Thank you for sharing 🙏🏻
Hey Forest and Rick, great show. Love the way you put ideas and topics forward.
My business partner framed your summary quite nicely in that he says “you are a Human-BEING not a Human-Doing” therefore love should not be conditional to the latter.
I love listening to your podcasts and how you both approach these issues with so much depth and especially empathy.
PLEASE READ THIS
Have you ever heard of any research on twins where one was mentally unstable and it’s effect on the the other as an adult?
The primary goal of my family was to never offend my twin sister. My mother hated my friends because they didn’t like my sister and there are so many things that I can’t list them here.
Sometimes I feel like I have destroyed my life because of caring for my sister and everyone else to my detriment.
After my most recent traumatic marriage and divorce I am so broken. My twin is in an assisted living facility in the state I just moved from because I was running from my husband because I felt like I was being destroyed from the inside out. I had to leave before there was nothing left of me but I may have failed.
I am actually a master-prepared nurse who had to flee before getting my doctorate program completed leaving me without clinicals and the inability to work as a nurse practitioner.
I feel like I have struggled against everything and everyone who has tried to hold me back and still trying to help my twin and everyone else.
Can you see why this is so complicated? My twin had a brain tumor, has been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, and she has dissociative identity disorder believe it or not. She won’t accept either of those diagnoses but I have realized that she has manifested symptoms of both even when we were kids.
I graduated with a 4.0 GPA from both my undergraduate and graduate degrees. I tell you that because it’s probably a manifestation of me trying to be worthy of self love and love from others.
It didn’t work!
I’m so broken and alone that I don’t know who I am or how to move forward.
I ran to another state, had to quickly by a house because I couldn’t afford to rent. My home has had so many problems since I moved here in August, not even a year later.
My body is failing in weird ways and I need to get going to a doctor appointment to review one of my many body parts images that are a disaster. I also have a guy coming to look at possibly water in my basement.
I have to stop here but I have only skimmed the surface.
I guess I am asking for any information that might help me know who I am and how to feel like I’m worth moving forward. 😢
just popped up today.Sat with what you were talking about. Had no emotions in childhood,wasn't allowed by social worker dad and volatile mom. At 3 wasn't fed,mocked if ate fast, was left in stacks of library while grad student dad did whatever, got in trouble with librarian for rearranging 3 shelves of books according to color. At 4 was punished for feeding sib potting soil as were locked out on porch and she screamed in hunger. But I was the failure always until Stanford testing was something I didn't know how to throw. At 27 I started a crisis nursery in the town where I was a hungry 3yo, at 29 excised them from my life. Still not sure who I really am after lots of therapy, reading, reparenting myself . Do know people are not good.
thank you for this podcast session. I was watching it this morning and it resonated with me so much. the issues you raised were very relevent to me at this point in time.
Thank you for this.
Thank you!!
This explains a lot , thank you .
It was totally revelatory for me when I learned the theory behind it.
Lovely done
New sub here. I related to a few parts of this episode and have been trying to discover the real me for a while.
Thanks for the follow, hope you enjoy it.
I recently came across your videos and I really find the practical examples and even benchmarks for certain healing approaches and behaviors helpful. I'm wondering if either of you are familiar with complex ptsd and PNEWS. I am experiencing these because I grew up in a highly toxic and dysfunctional home and my nervous system has gone haywire. I been going to therapy for almost ten years and it's helped a bit but no one has really gotten what I'm going through or helped me figure out what I need to do to heal.
Love you guys. I rarely share channels I like with friends, but I’ve shared this one twice already. Also read the Alice Miller book many years ago - it hit the spot a lot.
I read Alice Miller's book many times!
Another amazing episode (just heard it on Spotify, ) but came to ask, how can we think about being loved post having to earn It? Don't people love people because they 'do' something for them, even if that is merely tickling their fancy? How does healthy love work?
One of the most painful myths for people to move on from is the myth of "unconditional love."
The only love that I can think of as being truly unconditional is that of a parent for their newborn child. The parent loves the child without expecting anything in return. If anything, they anticipate a great deal of work and frustration!
So, yes, all love in healthy adult relationships is in some sense conditional. The mistake people make is they hear that word and think that healthy love must be this dry, "tit-for-tat" kind of thing, which wouldn't be further from the truth.
Healthy love assumes that each individual in the system has value. It assumes that each individual has the autonomy to make their own choices. And it assumes that the underlying desire of everyone in the system is to support all others in the system.
If those assumptions get violated by a member of the system, it's up to each person to decide how to move forward. Maybe it's by continuing to "love" the other person, but the size and scope of the relationship changes. Maybe it's by no longer loving the other person. The whole point of autonomy is that it's up to them - I'm certainly not going to dictate to anyone how to love.
Emotions are complex. Just knowing that someone else is bad for you, or is taking advantage of your love, doesn't necessarily stop you from continuing to love them. But my personal view is that those forms of love are much closer to psychological entanglement, trauma bonding, and so on than they are to healthy love.
@@ForrestHanson thanks Forrest - that is beautiful ❤
Thanks for giving this so much time 🥰
I want to see the video about identifying your own wants and needs if you haven’t made it yet. Great content- subscribed 👍👍
You guys are awesome. I am a dad with a toddler and 7 month old and am taking a lot away from this.
Your dynamic is beautiful also. I wish I had that same dynamic with my mom and dad. My goal is to have an unconditional love relationship with my kids and I'm learning how to be kinder to myself as well.
Huge fan!
Great Video!
Brilliant and helpful
Grief, not shame.
Brilliant. 🧠🧠🧠🏆🏆🏆✍️✍️✍️
Needed this video…for my whole life.🤍
Wow you described my life.
Reading a book by Jenn Granneman who recommends Hardwiring Happiness: The New Brain Science of Contentment, Calm and Confidence by Rick Hanson. My next read! Love your podcast, thx
My story too 💯, with an alcoholic, narcissist, pedophile father and an emotionally disregulated mother. Read Miller’s book, made total sense. In high school, when family preparation is discussed, it should be drummed into every student’s mind: Your child is not here to serve your needs. You are here to serve the child’s.
Did you read her other books? Highly recommend.
Interesting. What about children of neglect or children who suffer the death of a parent? They (we) do not define ourselves in terms of relationship because there are no relationships.
The relationship is always with the primary caregiver, whoever that may be, and there can be more than one person in a child’s life, each being a substitute for the first which we assume is always the mother (except with death in childbirth). The child will keep trying to attach to whoever is available.