In the mid-1980s I trained as a sound engineer with the BBC (at the Engineering Training Centre at Wood Norton in Evesham, and Television Centre on Wood Lane, London). I love Danny’s videos and passion but I’m not going to lie, I haven’t got a clue what Danny is talking about half of the time! I worked every day with Rogers LS5/9s, LS5/8s (and their matching Quad amps), LS3/5s, ATC monitors, and the finest quality recording and broadcast sound desks and signal chains in the UK. I was also introduced to a couple of useful psychoacoustic concepts that render 90% of audiophile lore redundant: 1. Buy the speakers that YOU like the sound of. Each of us has a unique head related transfer function. We all hear things differently. The variance between us can be significant. So don’t listen to what others say - trust your ears when listening to your own favourite music. In music production and broadcast sound, we’re always aiming for a mid-point sound balance that won’t offend anyone. How you experience that will vary. 2. Your brain is not your friend when listening to those instruments which you already have a “library” of previous listenings. I have some top quality acoustic guitars. I know what they sound like when played live. Even if I listen to a recording of an acoustic guitar on a crummy system, my brain rejects the crummy sound and replaces it (in real time) with what I’m expecting to hear. So if you’re already familiar with what a great recording sounds like, your brain will automatically adjust mediocre sound without you having to do a lot of work - unless you concentrate. But why would you do that? A $500 set up today will reveal all of the flaws in recordings made before the year 2000. And then there’s the somewhat uncomfortable realisation when you’re mic-ing up a legendary rock band and preparing to capture their live performance on a Neve sound desk and 2” tape that their gear is the biggest heap of crap you’ve ever seen! Even their records can be horribly recorded, mixed and mastered. And if you’re listening on vinyl, you’re relying on a manufacturing process with often terrible QC. Very often the record libraries at Maida Vale and Ealing had to grade brand new records at low values as they were entered into the inventory! They were often terrible! The whole exercise is one of artifice. If you want to reproduce live sound in your listening room out of an array of transducers from a recording of any media, you can’t. Old recordings are full of unwanted and obvious artefacts of the recording process, and modern sound will have been compressed/expanded/equalised and processed many times before it reaches your system. Just find speakers you like, a good quality 44.1KHz Red Book standard digital source, a clean amp with plenty of power (at least 3dB headroom on your speakers RMS or Continuous power handling rating) and enjoy what it was that got the band and the original producers so excited they wanted to make a record - the passion and artistry of the musicians and composers.
He is talking about selling overpriced components that cost pence to make in China with types like hims mark ups.. U can buy replicas of these speaker 394gbp from china
Hello from Switzerland. Thank you for your infos. I decided to buy them along with Quad Artera Play for my little room (20 m2) connected with in akustik cables and I am very happy. For sure there are other speakers and also better but I arrived at one point where I stopped further comparisons. I like how they look and how they sound. For me it's top. I listen to classics, jazz, and singer & songwriter and I enjoy it. Enjoy your music too and stay healthy.
What would be good is to hear your listening opinion on the speakers before you take them apart and then your thoughts after the tear down and see if they match.
@ paul lazarro . The same way you use a tape measure to see how big something is or weighing scales to check somethings weight or a light meter to check brightness . A huge dip or peak is visible on a graph so is the distortion and the the resonances and the dispersion characteristics and the time alignment of the drivers . Measurements are a useful tool . Hope this helps
There's plenty of subjective reviews of the speakers out there. GR is great as a point of reference along with other reviewers. I check with a few points of view since I can't just test everything at home. No single reviewer has everything sorted out.
That's what noticed about the vocals sound of this speaker. It's slightly veiled and muffled. Completely different from my Sonus Faber speakers which are lovely with vocals. Now I know the culprit. Thanks for sharing that information with us. Good job.
First review ive seen which actually addresses my disappointment with the sound of these (based on so many high praised reviews). I thought maybe I had set them up wrong or wasnt hearing them right. Definitely rolled off on the top and that muffled vocal, was the perfect description! Nailed it.
@@wicomms The Wireless 2 has separate amplifiers for the woofer and tweeter that are designed to get the most out of them. It also has a lot of digital signal processing, such as phase correction, that is able to enhance the sound by having the drivers work better together.
Great video! I love seeing the parts used inside of the speakers - it tells you so much about the passion of the manufacturer or if they are just using cheapest glue and cable-binders to fix the parts.
Danny, I think what would add a lot of value to your speaker break-down videos would be the inclusion of actual listening impressions before and after any upgrades you have made. Seeing the measurement graphs tell me nothing about how a speaker actually sounds with music. The before and after graphs are interesting and all, but they don't tell the whole story. I know that the better crossover parts should improve the sound; however, what exactly is changing to the bass, mids, and treble while listening to a specific piece of music. Using your first rate listening room to provide your subjective before and after impressions would help the layman grasp the value of your speaker upgrade kits and enable a more educated buying decision.
TH-cam is full of subjective impressions that have more to do with one's personal setup, bias, and expectations going into a listening session than anything else. I really appreciate the on/off axis measurements before and after tweaking. That empirical information. Unless a reviewer is doing a blind review in which they are unaware of what speakers they are hearing. That would actually be useful, but is hard to pull off given that most are reviewing speakers being sent to them specifically for their review, setup by them in their own studio, and arranged and agreed to before they are ever shipped to them.
Replacement of a few parts in the woofer crossover will not change the sound by much. I bet most people won’t hear the difference. But what makes the difference are the extremely good cabinet, the 12th generation co-axial driver, and the very experienced team at Kef, that has all the professional equipment that’s needed to create one of the best selling monitors of this generation, much better than their legendary LS3/5a
LS50 was my gateway drug to the audiophile world. After having gone through many twists and turns with other brands and mixing and matching many different components and cables, I’ve finally landed on KEF Reference 1 (+REL S510’s) as being the speaker that checks all of the boxes for me. I’m still very fond of the LS50’s and own 3 pair including the newer Meta. Great speakers for the price as long as you find the right component match.
@@martingritsch2340 depends on what sound signature (warm vs neutral) and features you prefer but the best matches that I have found are Denon PMA-1600NE, Denon PMA-A110 (excellent), Cambridge EVO-150, and Gold Note IS-1000 (excellent). All of these have some form of tone controls which I prefer to dial in the bass and lower midrange. All of my KEF speakers including Ref 5’s require subs (preferably REL) to maximize enjoyment in my experience. I love clean, tight, musical bass down to 20hz but I know a lot of people are happy without subs. Honorable mentions for Hegel H90, H190 and Arcam SA30 and AVR30 as well. The Arcams really sing with external DACs like the PS Audio DirectStream.
@@martingritsch2340 I've not owned these or the original LS-50s ... however, by most accounts, it truly benefits from high quality high power amplification.
I found my Kef Q100 had a dip at 105Hz, have not compared to my Q150 yet but that would be interesting. Now have Kef R3. No more dip at 105Hz so I think could be due to the crossover/ updated driver/ shadow flair but WOW, KEF R3 is a Fantastic speaker with amazing clarity, dynamics and superb bass extension. high frequencies do drop off but easily boosted. I would very highly recommend Kef R3s to anyone using nearfield (need at least 1.5 to 2metres in front of speakers to hear bass) or for any room exceeding 10 square metres.
Danny, amazing reviews by you. Unlike the other reviewers you go to the bones of the speakers along with tech data. It's great. Keep up going!! Can you please review Monitor Audio & recent acoustic energy speakers if possible in near future? Take care
Missed you. Need my Sensei of Audio training session! Thank you! Almost bought some Kef before taking a chance on the Pedistales! It turned out to be a GREAT decision! Happy listener!
Interesting ... Main reasons for the "listener fatigue" are: * Too bright sound. * Room reverb. Since the speaker is measuring pretty good, the only reason for the former is other equipment characteristics or settings. As for the room, if sitting closer (really near field) helps, it is the problem that can be addressed in many ways. I own LS50 Meta since they ware released (over 18 months). And I love them for many reasons. They are in use for many hours almost every day. For me, the main trick to have great sounding system without overspending is to have a pair of decent subs. This is even more true for ppl like me having home theater and music in one package. The subs dramatically reduce the requirement for the amp. They also leave the speaker to focus on the job of fine details. I had the opportunity to evaluate this theory against few times more expensive "true audiophile" setups and it proved to be correct. Not to mention that having subs makes speakers placement easier.
Hi Ray, I am still running my original KEF 104/2 with a PS Audio Sprout. They still sound wonderful. I have been thinking of new speakers, but not sure if newer is better. What do you find better with your new setup? Thanks
My roommate had a pair of KEF top of their line speakers back in the mid80’s. Ran them with the Adcom GFA 555 and matching preamp. They sounded good, really good, but I was in a love affair with my Dahlquist at the time (would stay there until they were stolen). I was just glad we lived in a big townhouse with a floor between us when listening at the same time .
Great analysis as always! What about improvements to the LS50 (Standard)? You mentioned that you would take care of the highs and mids in a different way that Kef did.
"It’s not too bad to begin with" Wow. You can tell this guy has his own products to sell. I have these speakers, they replaced some PMCs that cost twice as much and they walk over them. They have a relatively flat frequency response, and fantastic imaging. Looking at the build, the boxes are heavily braced and filled with padding. The build quality is high, with a very nice matt paint finish. The performance is high.
You might think the performance is high if comparing them to older PMC's. If you comparing them to any of our kits though you realize real quickly that they are far from high quality. Our little X-LS Encore and X-Bravo models will eat them up in all areas.
@@dannyrichie9743 Then you are in disagreement with countless reviewers, and measurements. I have PMC twenty.21, which in my opinion are massively overrated, and they have an awful frequency response. I’ve heard the twenty5.21i too, it’s not good, just my subjective opinion, but I bet it measures poorly. To be fair your speakers do have a much better frequency response than many if not most speakers. I’m shocked at how the likes of B&W produce speakers that are all over the place. I have no idea why so many makers voice their speakers as they do, it’s weird. However, measurements of the Kef LS50 Meta contradict your assertions. And I bet you buy in your drivers, unlike Kef who design their own. I am sure your gear is very nice, I’m not saying otherwise. And probably excellent value in kit form.
@@StillAliveAndKicking_ Yes, I disagree with any reviewer that thinks these are great. They are mediocre at best. The crossover parts are fair to poor. The woofer has an iron core inductors and electrolytic caps. That stuff is budget level garbage. We also do design our own drivers, and after having a lot of Kef drivers in house, I am not impressed. I hate the cone material too. It gives them a very vailed sound.
There is a 2R7 series resistor in the tweeter x over in my Metas! Both the large value electrolytic caps are in shunt on the woofer circuit so forgivable for the price. Yes I agree though, super difficult to upgrade without going to an external crossover
@@dannyrichie9743 The tweeter resistor is hidden behind the series cap. If you don't take the board out you won't see it I took mine out and traced the circuit. It is exactly as the KEF white paper says. 3rd order with a notch on the woofer, so the caps are in shunt, not series.
@@simondart1481 If only the original boards could be easily removed.... Those caps in shunt are still directly in the signal path to that woofer. What you hear passes right through them.
Enjoy listening to a pair of KEF 105.1s I recently purchased, but then I find their vintage speakers generally sound quite good from this company, especially the Reference series. Granted the crossover network in the 105.1 is a tad complicated but given what the engineers were trying to accomplish the tradeoffs seem to be more positive. I am thinking of getting the recap kit from Falcon Acoustics as they are very close to what KEF designed when they originally created this model. Can it be improved? I do wonder if some Low Rez in the sealed 12" bass driver cabinet might be a good idea. Any thoughts?
Just watched this again. My original LS50s are in a closet and periodically I pull them out them out and listen to them. As Danny noted in the review, they have some clarity issues (at least to my ears) so I go back to my 1st "home-built" X-LS speakers.
The LS50 comes with port plugs. One is a donut and would help with port resonance without hurting bass response much. I had the previous gen LS50 and didn’t find it especially fatiguing.
Simply superb post I love this because it was tech at the start but then it quickly explained the rest in detail. I love this post. I hope future posts are like this.
Great assessment as always. I would caution that manufacturer part choices are not only based on budget constraints but also driver synergy and balance. Simply replacing an R, L or C of the same value with a better part may not yield the same sonic signature and balance that was intended by the manufacturer.
Extremely high frequencies are not able to be interpreted by the human ear but that doesn’t mean we’re unaware of them. I knew a bloke about 30 or 40 years ago who monitored emissions at factories. One place he went to had a bunch of people who were getting constant headaches. He measured a signal at about 45 kHz at _in excess of 160 dB!_ It would not surprise me at all that very high frequency sounds have an effect we are not aware of. I can only imagine what that factory noise was doing to the local dog population!
To the owner, have you tried aiming them so their center points cross over a bit in front of the listening position? This technique is sometimes recommended for coaxial drivers to make them feel less ‘beamy’.
Would love to see a tear down of Wharfedale Linton’s since a lot of objectivists/measurement focused reviews are praising them. EDIT: I see you already did! I love this channel.
They look great - a very lifestyle product. Heard them for the 1st time this year at a UK hi Fi Show. Very analytical but unimersive sound for me personally 🇬🇧
Yes I find the voice on these speakers can sometimes sound a bit veiled. That’s why I wld pair it with a 48W Class A SET Willsenton R800i to bring it out. Spkr wires also make quite a diff , Van Den Huls sound too soft I found , when I used silver wires from Xangsane ( Chinese) , the clarity, detail , imaging and soundstage went up a lot. Ofc spkr placement was critical and room dependent. Finally when I changed the DAC from my Matrix mini IPro 3 to the Denafrips Pontus 2 it was night and day. This spkr needs gd associated equipment for it to shine in a small to med room setting. Ofc with IsoAccoustic on the spkr spikes and def use the S2 Kef spkr bolted to the spkr n filled with sand & lead. And finally it needs to be paired with a gd sub like a Rel or KC62.
@@V1ralB1ack BTW I rolled the tubes on the Willsenton - the 6SN7 and the 300B to PSVane Western Electric , the improvement is quite substantial. Next I will change the 805s. I paired it with the Rel T5X sub. And that’s about it.
@@robertwang7825 That's wonderful to hear. Rel subs are amazing. I have different components but same exact idea. An r2r dac, willsenton r300b tube amp (the new version), foam block between the stands and speakers. Filled with sand and sealed with some candle wax. Ive tried to find better but have failed. This is my ultimate setup.
Sometimes, the fatigue comes from too high listening level, trying to get some more bass. I'd suggest a midbass module or a sub for a more pleasurable experience.
"A flat in-room target response is clearly not the optimal target curve for room equalization. The preferred room corrections have a target response that has a smooth downward slope with increasing frequency. This tells us that listeners prefer a certain amount of natural room gain. Removing the room gain, makes the reproduced music sound unnatural, and too thin, according to these listeners. This also makes perfect sense since the recording was likely mixed in room where the room gain was also not removed; therefore, to remove it from the consumers' listening room would destroy spectral balance of the music as intended by the artist." That’s from Sean Olive’s blog. People prefer a downward slope in room for a number of reasons. This doesn’t mean all people, of course.
Agreed ... even further, I'd mate these with a full tilt dipole bass system AND a monopole subwoofer below. Nothing like dipole bass/midbass, and the manner in which it resolves LF... just physics.
Hello, The shunting caps in the woofer circuit being electrolytic should not affect the sound , are you saying poly caps there would make a difference ..?? Regards
I have a couple set of KEF's Maybe the customer should try a different amp. I have found with KEF's a forward amp will sound over bright. I use a Arcam and they sound great. I have also used a Yamaha reciever. A good one and wow way over bright.. Good stuff Danny love the reviews.
If he finds the sound fatigueing for long periods, the issue may be the upper mid hump. The easy suggestion there is to listen off axis where that hump flattens out. It will still sound a little dark due to the continuous slope to the treble, but it will reduce the fatigueing nature. Tone controls might be able to flatten the response depending on the curve of the tone control. Also, the fatigue may come from a room acoustic issue.
I sold mine for that very reason J. Listen to music for around 8 hours a day when I'm home. The KEFS got worse as the day went on. Room acoustics should not have been a problem as I have a Lyngdorf amp with Room Perfect. Purchased a pair of JBL L82 Classics and they are perfect. Less harsh, more low end due to larger drivers. The soundstage isn't as wide as the KEFs but I can take that as they aren't fatiguing at all. Maybe as I listen to old soul and reggae on vinyl a lot is the reason why the JBLs are better.
@@stephenjon3502 yeah, jbl didn't design the L-82's for soundstaging. They built them for tone, texture & dynamics. But don't think that room perfect will fix room acoustic issues. While it can help, it won't completely undo bad acoustics. Physics can't be fooled. God created physics. He is not going to suspend physics because you bought a fancy digital processor. As for me, I can't listen to digital for very long before the digital hash splits my brain in two. Going to high resolution helps but then the fine details and lack of level gradations keep it from sounding real for me. Glad to hear you found a better solution in the L-82s. I had a boss that had an original set if L-82s. Glad jbl is keeping the heritage going.
Interesting tube will watch others. Good to hear some counterbalance to the unremitting hype surrounding these spks and their revolutionary coin damper. Also good to hear that electrons are still audiophiles in 2023 and know to behave differently when they encounter a ClarityCap vs a standard component of exactly the same characteristics.
Why upgrade it 🤔 All of its measurements were well above average for consumer use. Price is nuts. Wish they were $800.00 a pair. However, most quality speakers start @ $1500.00 & up. That said, I’m still thinking of going for it. If anyone knows of the same or better quality as the Meta’s for $1600.00, please advise.
What other speakers do you suggest. I use to have the older 104. With macintosh mc275 and it sounded quite good. For the price point maybe better B&W ?
I am certainly no expert but I agree with Barney from about 3 hrs ago - 5 inch 'bass' isn't gonna get it done, regardless the company. they are designed to be used with a Sub , which I would think would clean up the low mids IF the Sub and especially Xover is good. Note, I have Metas, Outlaw receiver, Def tech Sub.....Many might say that's not even 'Audiophile'.....
Danny, how about removing the meta material to see the delta on how it changes the sound and how much closer it becomes to an ordinary LS50? I guess this is impossible given how hard it would be to put together but that would be an amazing experiment if you could pull it off!
Why is it that speaker manufacturers reveal so little about their crossover designs? Seems like there's a golden opportunity for a confident speaker designer to go full open-kimono and show their customers every single design decision, every part, and the manufacturing process, that goes into building a particular speaker model. Along with publishing all the measurements - in anechoic and non-anechoic settings. I believe that approach would appeal to broad range of people who care about more than just great aesthetics. Also, with fewer and fewer audio shops available, it would help with making a purchase without actually hearing the product first. Many of us rely on reviews to make audio purchase decisions, and having the design decisions, measurements, and parts list - would make those reviews more valuable to a person like me, who does not have easy access to a full range audio shop. I appreciate these videos, because Danny digs into the details like no one else I've seen. And he exposes just how little information manufacturers actually reveal about their products. Sure, we all want a set of speakers that look great, but I also want to know exactly what went into it, and why. And I don't think I'm the only one.
There are only a handful of people that care about those sorts of things and even then you can find all the details online. Driver/speaker designs have been detailed with 3D models and you can find all the small details nowadays. I personally did watch two really long presentations by Kef and how they designed every part. I can understand if there are problems with other manufacturers but Kef seems to be open with everything. Also, with online stores, you can at least test the gear and return it if you don't like the sound. All of my speakers did sound way different in the store than in my listening space. It's always nice to test speakers before buying but everything sounds different depending on the room. This is why reviewers have all sorts of takes when using the same speaker.
@@audiophil5042 I agree that room acoustics make a huge diff. I have a neighbor who built a pool table room in his basement. All hard surfaces with a concrete floor. He installed an expensive audio system and 4 high-quality speakers, but the room reflections were so bad, it was painful to listen to anything above very low-volume. But I'm pretty sure those same speakers would sound great in my living room - which is full of soft surfaces. Still, I wish manufacturers would do more to reveal their speaker designs - particularly their crossover designs, which have enormous potential for coloring the sound.
@@mxbishop Well, manufacturers only care about selling higher-end gear and offer different price points. Spend more and get better quality/output. It would be a negative business decision to offer an easy way to make modifications. Most audio gear has still great ways to improve things and is semi-easy to repair compared to other modern hardware companies (Apple, Tesla, etc.) All it takes is one chip inside the gear that disables every modification. The future is not looking bright so I'm happy that consumers have now at least ways to improve speakers. We can just support the brands that are doing a good job. I avoid buying products that become e-waste because of the company's anti-repair design.
The cap on the tweeter is a little too big. Lower it 1-2uf and it will bring that hump at 4-6k hz down. Then, a 15 deg off axis listening position should be recommended imo.
Contradicción completa. Excelente medición, pero , se deduce mal sonidos por los capacitores de bajos?? Confío en Danny por su rigurosidad, y porque obliga a la industria a mejorar sus estándares, pero creo falta el aspecto subjetivo de la audición: como suena?
Youd be surprised. I have one of our high end kits with an external crossover. One pair of crossover's i built uses high-quality parts, the other uses some of the cheapest parts I could find on Parts-Express. On par with the quality seen in the Metas. They measure identically, but sound nothing alike.. the cheap crossovers sounds dull and congested at best. The reason we dont do listening tests is because customers often only send us a single speaker to save on shipping costs. We also don't install the upgrades to be able to do before/after testing.
Regarding meta materials, there is a great thread on DIY Audio titled 3d printed meta materials with ton of great info. Recommended reading if you make a video on the topic ❤
do you have any recommendation of amplifiers for best speakers??? you never do a video on amplifiers and dacs and I wonder what are your best 3. Also what are your opinion on dsp crossover like minidsp and car dsp.. versus analog crossover..
I am not a reviewer. What you are seeing is a look into what we have been doing and offering here at GR Research for years. Not all dsp devices are equal. Some are quite bad and should be avoided. The Mini DSP is one of them.
@@dannyrichie9743 Do you think the MiniDSP is sufficient for active crossover for subs? I know Linkwitz used them extensively for the lxmini and lx521.
Can these also be used as centre speaker along side left and and right LS 50 Meta’s and would you recommend that or would you recommend another centre that could go well with L/R LS 50 Meta. My other option is the Dali Opticon 2 stand mount and Dali Opticon Vocal Centre. Many thanks.
I have the first LS50s and I can listen to them for 2+ hours without a problem. But they are very picky with the amp you match them. I currently use a Moon Simaudio amp that I got second hand, previously I had a Rotel integrated amp and the sound is almost night and day, they are very picky with amplification! Also, in my experience they can sound thin with a low wattage-current amp. But with the right amp LS50 sound killer for the price If you plan to amp LS50s with an average AV receiver or a $300 Stereo amp you better look elsewhere
I bought these as a replacment for my Q150s....i cant listen to the metas for no more than 2 hours..the Q150 i can listen to for 4 hours plus no problem..i just prefer the sound of the Qs
I've been a pedophile going on 15 years now. What you have to understand is that when it comes to audio, every little component adds to the overall sound of your stereo system.
Initially I enjoyed Danny dissections. Now not much. I would highly recommend instead of finding faults with every speaker and then recommending his business as the fix , he could do a real service by recommending speakers that are made well. His videos are at their core advertisements. Now very boring. Always cheesy, ferrous conductors, bad caps, etc. Same themes, different speakers, each and every time.
Did Danny ever address the customer's original complaint about the speaker causing listening fatigue ? Obviously, in this case a flat response is not what the customer wanted to hear.
Thanks, ive been waitin on this for quite awhile, you may like hearing this, I've had the old ls50 and the meta, I did a direct head to head with the xls-encore maxed on upgrades, and nearfield in a small room the ls50 is great and will do just fine they sound great, but after 80 db or so the o much port chuff and turbulence, woofers works to hard past 80 db, it's great for smaller rooms, but the encores definitely outclassed them in every area, the encore is still my favorite bookshelf I've had, the revel performa m106 are great also, probably top 3. The closest thing to the encore I've found in all areas to date believe it or not, they are not very well known and fairly hard to find, signet sl260 b/u models made in Ohio, seas tweeters and vifa woofers, 1 inch mdf, high quality build, great speakers, are my new favorite bookshelves other than those encores, I'd say it's a close fight between the two, maybe encores edge them out by a slight bit.
I had those Signets. Surprised you like them that much. I found them lacking detail and a bit soft and slow dynamically. Might have been the electronics but with some A/B comparison with a Paradigm Studio 20 v3, the Signet was unimpressive.
@@michaelblumfield3933 everybody has their own thing I suppose, in a 12x12, 21 inches off the floor, off the wall 18 inches with slight toe in, their awesome, top end sparkle, imaging, their bass is good quality and a softer bass similar to ads I've found, midbass character is great also, and top end is smooth even being an aluminum tweeter, I like em really well, and have owned way too many speakers lol, but these are in my top 3 favorite bookshelves for the money, for my room and listening tastes anyway.
I use the KEF LS50 Meta for both 2 channel listening as well as part of surround sound system. So currently I have the fronts and center being LS50 Meta's and 2 rear Magnepan MC1's plus a transmission line subwoofer which I constructed many years ago. I believe the secret to unlock this system are the amps. A Van Alstine Hafler 220 plus a bunch of Adcom amplifiers seem to do the trick. Iam quite pleased with the performance of the KEF LS50 Meta and for the money I believe they are hard to beat.
In the mid-1980s I trained as a sound engineer with the BBC (at the Engineering Training Centre at Wood Norton in Evesham, and Television Centre on Wood Lane, London). I love Danny’s videos and passion but I’m not going to lie, I haven’t got a clue what Danny is talking about half of the time! I worked every day with Rogers LS5/9s, LS5/8s (and their matching Quad amps), LS3/5s, ATC monitors, and the finest quality recording and broadcast sound desks and signal chains in the UK.
I was also introduced to a couple of useful psychoacoustic concepts that render 90% of audiophile lore redundant:
1. Buy the speakers that YOU like the sound of. Each of us has a unique head related transfer function. We all hear things differently. The variance between us can be significant. So don’t listen to what others say - trust your ears when listening to your own favourite music. In music production and broadcast sound, we’re always aiming for a mid-point sound balance that won’t offend anyone. How you experience that will vary.
2. Your brain is not your friend when listening to those instruments which you already have a “library” of previous listenings. I have some top quality acoustic guitars. I know what they sound like when played live. Even if I listen to a recording of an acoustic guitar on a crummy system, my brain rejects the crummy sound and replaces it (in real time) with what I’m expecting to hear. So if you’re already familiar with what a great recording sounds like, your brain will automatically adjust mediocre sound without you having to do a lot of work - unless you concentrate. But why would you do that? A $500 set up today will reveal all of the flaws in recordings made before the year 2000.
And then there’s the somewhat uncomfortable realisation when you’re mic-ing up a legendary rock band and preparing to capture their live performance on a Neve sound desk and 2” tape that their gear is the biggest heap of crap you’ve ever seen! Even their records can be horribly recorded, mixed and mastered. And if you’re listening on vinyl, you’re relying on a manufacturing process with often terrible QC. Very often the record libraries at Maida Vale and Ealing had to grade brand new records at low values as they were entered into the inventory! They were often terrible!
The whole exercise is one of artifice. If you want to reproduce live sound in your listening room out of an array of transducers from a recording of any media, you can’t. Old recordings are full of unwanted and obvious artefacts of the recording process, and modern sound will have been compressed/expanded/equalised and processed many times before it reaches your system.
Just find speakers you like, a good quality 44.1KHz Red Book standard digital source, a clean amp with plenty of power (at least 3dB headroom on your speakers RMS or Continuous power handling rating) and enjoy what it was that got the band and the original producers so excited they wanted to make a record - the passion and artistry of the musicians and composers.
could you elaborate?
He is talking about selling overpriced components that cost pence to make in China with types like hims mark ups.. U can buy replicas of these speaker 394gbp from china
Very well said Mr. Robert Dowell. Totally agree and it is logical.
@@carewser 😂
Thanks for writing that! Was so insightful to read
I really have gotten hooked on watching these "Speaker Upgrade" videos by Danny. So much so, that I can't wait to see him release some new ones..
Hello from Switzerland. Thank you for your infos. I decided to buy them along with Quad Artera Play for my little room (20 m2) connected with in akustik cables and I am very happy. For sure there are other speakers and also better but I arrived at one point where I stopped further comparisons. I like how they look and how they sound. For me it's top. I listen to classics, jazz, and singer & songwriter and I enjoy it. Enjoy your music too and stay healthy.
I am grateful for these videos especially when you show and describe the inner workings.
What would be good is to hear your listening opinion on the speakers before you take them apart and then your thoughts after the tear down and see if they match.
How does one listen to a chart? LOL
@ paul lazarro . The same way you use a tape measure to see how big something is or weighing scales to check somethings weight or a light meter to check brightness . A huge dip or peak is visible on a graph so is the distortion and the the resonances and the dispersion characteristics and the time alignment of the drivers . Measurements are a useful tool . Hope this helps
he only assumes it will sound better after the mods. Steel nuts, BS
There's plenty of subjective reviews of the speakers out there. GR is great as a point of reference along with other reviewers. I check with a few points of view since I can't just test everything at home. No single reviewer has everything sorted out.
Thank you Danny for what you do! Hello from East Texas.
That's what noticed about the vocals sound of this speaker. It's slightly veiled and muffled. Completely different from my Sonus Faber speakers which are lovely with vocals. Now I know the culprit. Thanks for sharing that information with us. Good job.
First review ive seen which actually addresses my disappointment with the sound of these (based on so many high praised reviews). I thought maybe I had set them up wrong or wasnt hearing them right. Definitely rolled off on the top and that muffled vocal, was the perfect description! Nailed it.
They are very transparent, you are probably hearing your amplifier properly for the first time
I have 7 of these -- a 5.1 and 2.1 -- love them!
I went straight for the LS50 Wireless II, thanks to a nice open box deal from Crutchfield. I am thrilled with it!
Hi Cavey, I heard the Ls 50 and then I heard the wireless 2..I was blown away. How come their own amplification is better?
@@wicomms The Wireless 2 has separate amplifiers for the woofer and tweeter that are designed to get the most out of them. It also has a lot of digital signal processing, such as phase correction, that is able to enhance the sound by having the drivers work better together.
@@CaveyMoth thanks
Great video! I love seeing the parts used inside of the speakers - it tells you so much about the passion of the manufacturer or if they are just using cheapest glue and cable-binders to fix the parts.
Lol here's another amateur that thinks he knows something
Danny, I think what would add a lot of value to your speaker break-down videos would be the inclusion of actual listening impressions before and after any upgrades you have made. Seeing the measurement graphs tell me nothing about how a speaker actually sounds with music. The before and after graphs are interesting and all, but they don't tell the whole story. I know that the better crossover parts should improve the sound; however, what exactly is changing to the bass, mids, and treble while listening to a specific piece of music. Using your first rate listening room to provide your subjective before and after impressions would help the layman grasp the value of your speaker upgrade kits and enable a more educated buying decision.
TH-cam is full of subjective impressions that have more to do with one's personal setup, bias, and expectations going into a listening session than anything else. I really appreciate the on/off axis measurements before and after tweaking. That empirical information. Unless a reviewer is doing a blind review in which they are unaware of what speakers they are hearing. That would actually be useful, but is hard to pull off given that most are reviewing speakers being sent to them specifically for their review, setup by them in their own studio, and arranged and agreed to before they are ever shipped to them.
Replacement of a few parts in the woofer crossover will not change the sound by much. I bet most people won’t hear the difference. But what makes the difference are the extremely good cabinet, the 12th generation co-axial driver, and the very experienced team at Kef, that has all the professional equipment that’s needed to create one of the best selling monitors of this generation, much better than their legendary LS3/5a
Great suggestion 👌
ok boomer
Amen!
Thank you for an honest detailed review!
LS50 was my gateway drug to the audiophile world. After having gone through many twists and turns with other brands and mixing and matching many different components and cables, I’ve finally landed on KEF Reference 1 (+REL S510’s) as being the speaker that checks all of the boxes for me. I’m still very fond of the LS50’s and own 3 pair including the newer Meta. Great speakers for the price as long as you find the right component match.
Which amplifier would you recommend? Thanks
@@martingritsch2340 depends on what sound signature (warm vs neutral) and features you prefer but the best matches that I have found are Denon PMA-1600NE, Denon PMA-A110 (excellent), Cambridge EVO-150, and Gold Note IS-1000 (excellent). All of these have some form of tone controls which I prefer to dial in the bass and lower midrange. All of my KEF speakers including Ref 5’s require subs (preferably REL) to maximize enjoyment in my experience. I love clean, tight, musical bass down to 20hz but I know a lot of people are happy without subs. Honorable mentions for Hegel H90, H190 and Arcam SA30 and AVR30 as well. The Arcams really sing with external DACs like the PS Audio DirectStream.
@@martingritsch2340
I've not owned these or the original LS-50s ... however, by most accounts, it truly benefits from high quality high power amplification.
@@CaptainCrunch823 Many thanks for your competent and detailed answer.
I like the LS50 meta very much, but I also have no comparison.
@@FOH3663 Many thanks for your answer.
I found my Kef Q100 had a dip at 105Hz, have not compared to my Q150 yet but that would be interesting. Now have Kef R3. No more dip at 105Hz so I think could be due to the crossover/ updated driver/ shadow flair but WOW, KEF R3 is a Fantastic speaker with amazing clarity, dynamics and superb bass extension. high frequencies do drop off but easily boosted. I would very highly recommend Kef R3s to anyone using nearfield (need at least 1.5 to 2metres in front of speakers to hear bass) or for any room exceeding 10 square metres.
Danny, amazing reviews by you. Unlike the other reviewers you go to the bones of the speakers along with tech data. It's great. Keep up going!!
Can you please review Monitor Audio & recent acoustic energy speakers if possible in near future?
Take care
I would be really-really curios about KEF R3 model. It would be super interesting to watch your analysis. Thanks!
Missed you. Need my Sensei of Audio training session! Thank you! Almost bought some Kef before taking a chance on the Pedistales! It turned out to be a GREAT decision! Happy listener!
I'm more than pleased with building the gr-research av3's fronts and center with a gr-research servo sub...yet to build some rears
Interesting ... Main reasons for the "listener fatigue" are:
* Too bright sound.
* Room reverb.
Since the speaker is measuring pretty good, the only reason for the former is other equipment characteristics or settings. As for the room, if sitting closer (really near field) helps, it is the problem that can be addressed in many ways.
I own LS50 Meta since they ware released (over 18 months). And I love them for many reasons. They are in use for many hours almost every day.
For me, the main trick to have great sounding system without overspending is to have a pair of decent subs. This is even more true for ppl like me having home theater and music in one package. The subs dramatically reduce the requirement for the amp. They also leave the speaker to focus on the job of fine details. I had the opportunity to evaluate this theory against few times more expensive "true audiophile" setups and it proved to be correct. Not to mention that having subs makes speakers placement easier.
I had a pair of Kef 104/2 for over 30 years...Replaced by Watkins Gen 4 and a JL Audio e112 Sub.SOUNDS REAL GOOD
Hi Ray, I am still running my original KEF 104/2 with a PS Audio Sprout. They still sound wonderful. I have been thinking of new speakers, but not sure if newer is better. What do you find better with your new setup? Thanks
My roommate had a pair of KEF top of their line speakers back in the mid80’s. Ran them with the Adcom GFA 555 and matching preamp. They sounded good, really good, but I was in a love affair with my Dahlquist at the time (would stay there until they were stolen). I was just glad we lived in a big townhouse with a floor between us when listening at the same time .
7:04 Also if you put more big inductors in, the box will have less internal volume that will affect the bass.
Great analysis as always! What about improvements to the LS50 (Standard)? You mentioned that you would take care of the highs and mids in a different way that Kef did.
"It’s not too bad to begin with" Wow. You can tell this guy has his own products to sell. I have these speakers, they replaced some PMCs that cost twice as much and they walk over them. They have a relatively flat frequency response, and fantastic imaging. Looking at the build, the boxes are heavily braced and filled with padding. The build quality is high, with a very nice matt paint finish. The performance is high.
You might think the performance is high if comparing them to older PMC's. If you comparing them to any of our kits though you realize real quickly that they are far from high quality. Our little X-LS Encore and X-Bravo models will eat them up in all areas.
@@dannyrichie9743 Then you are in disagreement with countless reviewers, and measurements. I have PMC twenty.21, which in my opinion are massively overrated, and they have an awful frequency response. I’ve heard the twenty5.21i too, it’s not good, just my subjective opinion, but I bet it measures poorly. To be fair your speakers do have a much better frequency response than many if not most speakers. I’m shocked at how the likes of B&W produce speakers that are all over the place. I have no idea why so many makers voice their speakers as they do, it’s weird. However, measurements of the Kef LS50 Meta contradict your assertions. And I bet you buy in your drivers, unlike Kef who design their own. I am sure your gear is very nice, I’m not saying otherwise. And probably excellent value in kit form.
@@StillAliveAndKicking_ Yes, I disagree with any reviewer that thinks these are great. They are mediocre at best. The crossover parts are fair to poor. The woofer has an iron core inductors and electrolytic caps. That stuff is budget level garbage.
We also do design our own drivers, and after having a lot of Kef drivers in house, I am not impressed. I hate the cone material too. It gives them a very vailed sound.
There is a 2R7 series resistor in the tweeter x over in my Metas! Both the large value electrolytic caps are in shunt on the woofer circuit so forgivable for the price. Yes I agree though, super difficult to upgrade without going to an external crossover
This one had no resistor on the tweeter circuit. Those electrolytic caps are in the direct signal path and do degrade the signal to the woofer.
@@dannyrichie9743 The tweeter resistor is hidden behind the series cap. If you don't take the board out you won't see it
I took mine out and traced the circuit. It is exactly as the KEF white paper says. 3rd order with a notch on the woofer, so the caps are in shunt, not series.
@@simondart1481 If only the original boards could be easily removed.... Those caps in shunt are still directly in the signal path to that woofer. What you hear passes right through them.
MF M6si or above will match really well with these. You really need good strong clean power for these speakers to shine.
Enjoy listening to a pair of KEF 105.1s I recently purchased, but then I find their vintage speakers generally sound quite good from this company, especially the Reference series. Granted the crossover network in the 105.1 is a tad complicated but given what the engineers were trying to accomplish the tradeoffs seem to be more positive.
I am thinking of getting the recap kit from Falcon Acoustics as they are very close to what KEF designed when they originally created this model. Can it be improved? I do wonder if some Low Rez in the sealed 12" bass driver cabinet might be a good idea. Any thoughts?
Pair them with subs....give the mid driver a bit less to do and these sound great.
you are the best and most honest.
Just watched this again. My original LS50s are in a closet and periodically I pull them out them out and listen to them. As Danny noted in the review, they have some clarity issues (at least to my ears) so I go back to my 1st "home-built" X-LS speakers.
The binding posts... of course, it's the binding posts!
The LS50 comes with port plugs. One is a donut and would help with port resonance without hurting bass response much.
I had the previous gen LS50 and didn’t find it especially fatiguing.
If anything you would expect some low frequency extension from plugging the port. You might lose some SPL, of course.
Simply superb post I love this because it was tech at the start but then it quickly explained the rest in detail. I love this post. I hope future posts are like this.
Great assessment as always. I would caution that manufacturer part choices are not only based on budget constraints but also driver synergy and balance. Simply replacing an R, L or C of the same value with a better part may not yield the same sonic signature and balance that was intended by the manufacturer.
Well said. It's a great speaker, I listen to these at a cafe every morning..
Exactly.
Extremely high frequencies are not able to be interpreted by the human ear but that doesn’t mean we’re unaware of them. I knew a bloke about 30 or 40 years ago who monitored emissions at factories. One place he went to had a bunch of people who were getting constant headaches. He measured a signal at about 45 kHz at _in excess of 160 dB!_
It would not surprise me at all that very high frequency sounds have an effect we are not aware of. I can only imagine what that factory noise was doing to the local dog population!
To the owner, have you tried aiming them so their center points cross over a bit in front of the listening position? This technique is sometimes recommended for coaxial drivers to make them feel less ‘beamy’.
finally, i ve been waiting for this for a long time
oh no, not what i was expecting, i was so excited to upgrade my metas to their full capacity :(
Would love to see a tear down of Wharfedale Linton’s since a lot of objectivists/measurement focused reviews are praising them. EDIT: I see you already did! I love this channel.
Exrernal crossover is beautiful !!
This is probably one of your best videos. Good job Danny.
Great review man! Could you do a review of the new/old re-issue Rogers Speakers? Thanks, ~peace
I am not a reviewer, but if you send one in then I will take a look at it.
I really love the sound of a good graph. LOL
Anders Ertzeid from Hegel uses those with a H590 in his personal system so they must be doing something right 😅
Danny, can you do a vid featuring what you consider to be the biggest leaps in speaker technology in the past 25 yrs ?
They look great - a very lifestyle product. Heard them for the 1st time this year at a UK hi Fi Show. Very analytical but unimersive sound for me personally 🇬🇧
Yes I find the voice on these speakers can sometimes sound a bit veiled. That’s why I wld pair it with a 48W Class A SET Willsenton R800i to bring it out. Spkr wires also make quite a diff , Van Den Huls sound too soft I found , when I used silver wires from Xangsane ( Chinese) , the clarity, detail , imaging and soundstage went up a lot. Ofc spkr placement was critical and room dependent. Finally when I changed the DAC from my Matrix mini IPro 3 to the Denafrips Pontus 2 it was night and day. This spkr needs gd associated equipment for it to shine in a small to med room setting. Ofc with IsoAccoustic on the spkr spikes and def use the S2 Kef spkr bolted to the spkr n filled with sand & lead. And finally it needs to be paired with a gd sub like a Rel or KC62.
I do the exact same thing. It's perfection.
@@V1ralB1ack BTW I rolled the tubes on the Willsenton - the 6SN7 and the 300B to PSVane Western Electric , the improvement is quite substantial. Next I will change the 805s. I paired it with the Rel T5X sub. And that’s about it.
@@robertwang7825 That's wonderful to hear. Rel subs are amazing. I have different components but same exact idea. An r2r dac, willsenton r300b tube amp (the new version), foam block between the stands and speakers. Filled with sand and sealed with some candle wax. Ive tried to find better but have failed. This is my ultimate setup.
@@V1ralB1ack That good enough IMO
@@robertwang7825 Same. My next goal is getting a willsenton r800i 805 like yours. They say it's the most musical version
Might be good for casual listening!! I think all other reviewers would disagree.
Part of KEF’s reference line.
Sometimes, the fatigue comes from too high listening level, trying to get some more bass. I'd suggest a midbass module or a sub for a more pleasurable experience.
"A flat in-room target response is clearly not the optimal target curve for room equalization. The preferred room corrections have a target response that has a smooth downward slope with increasing frequency. This tells us that listeners prefer a certain amount of natural room gain. Removing the room gain, makes the reproduced music sound unnatural, and too thin, according to these listeners. This also makes perfect sense since the recording was likely mixed in room where the room gain was also not removed; therefore, to remove it from the consumers' listening room would destroy spectral balance of the music as intended by the artist."
That’s from Sean Olive’s blog.
People prefer a downward slope in room for a number of reasons. This doesn’t mean all people, of course.
Agreed ... even further, I'd mate these with a full tilt dipole bass system AND a monopole subwoofer below.
Nothing like dipole bass/midbass, and the manner in which it resolves LF... just physics.
I wonder what your first choice would be at or just above this price point. I was curious about these but went in another direction.
The whole front baffle is on 4 bolts that go trough back so you can take it off!
Nope. Not with the LS50 Meta anymore.
Hello,
The shunting caps in the woofer circuit being electrolytic should not affect the sound , are you saying poly caps there would make a difference ..??
Regards
I have a couple set of KEF's Maybe the customer should try a different amp. I have found with KEF's a forward amp will sound over bright.
I use a Arcam and they sound great. I have also used a Yamaha reciever. A good one and wow way over bright..
Good stuff Danny love the reviews.
If he finds the sound fatigueing for long periods, the issue may be the upper mid hump. The easy suggestion there is to listen off axis where that hump flattens out. It will still sound a little dark due to the continuous slope to the treble, but it will reduce the fatigueing nature. Tone controls might be able to flatten the response depending on the curve of the tone control. Also, the fatigue may come from a room acoustic issue.
I sold mine for that very reason J. Listen to music for around 8 hours a day when I'm home. The KEFS got worse as the day went on. Room acoustics should not have been a problem as I have a Lyngdorf amp with Room Perfect. Purchased a pair of JBL L82 Classics and they are perfect. Less harsh, more low end due to larger drivers. The soundstage isn't as wide as the KEFs but I can take that as they aren't fatiguing at all. Maybe as I listen to old soul and reggae on vinyl a lot is the reason why the JBLs are better.
@@stephenjon3502 yeah, jbl didn't design the L-82's for soundstaging. They built them for tone, texture & dynamics. But don't think that room perfect will fix room acoustic issues. While it can help, it won't completely undo bad acoustics. Physics can't be fooled. God created physics. He is not going to suspend physics because you bought a fancy digital processor. As for me, I can't listen to digital for very long before the digital hash splits my brain in two. Going to high resolution helps but then the fine details and lack of level gradations keep it from sounding real for me. Glad to hear you found a better solution in the L-82s. I had a boss that had an original set if L-82s. Glad jbl is keeping the heritage going.
@@jked7463 "God created physics" is by definition against the laws of physics.
Or from an amplifier.
@@Technical_Audio depending on the amp, or more likely amp/speaker interaction.
Interesting tube will watch others. Good to hear some counterbalance to the unremitting hype surrounding these spks and their revolutionary coin damper. Also good to hear that electrons are still audiophiles in 2023 and know to behave differently when they encounter a ClarityCap vs a standard component of exactly the same characteristics.
Very honest review thx
Danny great video! I'm wondering how you made the 3D plot(the waterfall spectral plot)!
We use a Clio measuring system.
Why upgrade it 🤔 All of its measurements were well above average for consumer use. Price is nuts. Wish they were $800.00 a pair. However, most quality speakers start @ $1500.00 & up. That said, I’m still thinking of going for it. If anyone knows of the same or better quality as the Meta’s for $1600.00, please advise.
What’s your opinion of legacy Aeris speakers? Or even legacy speakers in general?
What other speakers do you suggest.
I use to have the older 104. With macintosh mc275 and it sounded quite good. For the price point maybe better B&W ?
Nice review. Would love to know what you do recommend other than kits which i dont have the patience for
We do offer some of them fully assembled.
crossover in a separate enclosure, I say why not?
Please do a video on the Elac Uni-Fi 2.0’s.
Hi can you talk about the kef r series? Any upgrade kit for it?
Would you like to look at a set of Heritage Specials? They are good enough to make me want Confidence 20.
what would you recommend around this price?
I wish someone make a test and a video about Elac BS-312 and maybe compare them to the Kef LS50
"upgrade the binding posts to increase the clarity" !
Sometimes significantly. Many of those cheap binging posts are Brass with Steel terminals and Steel nuts on them.
Hi wondering if you ever made an upgrade kit for the tannoys 215 you were working on years ago
Very faint praise for an outstanding little speaker.
It is not really that outstanding. You are never going to get to outstanding with budget level parts. It is mediocre at best.
I am certainly no expert but I agree with Barney from about 3 hrs ago - 5 inch 'bass' isn't gonna get it done, regardless the company. they are designed to be used with a Sub , which I would think would clean up the low mids IF the Sub and especially Xover is good. Note, I have Metas, Outlaw receiver, Def tech Sub.....Many might say that's not even 'Audiophile'.....
The Outlaw is a wonderful receiver !
Danny, how about removing the meta material to see the delta on how it changes the sound and how much closer it becomes to an ordinary LS50?
I guess this is impossible given how hard it would be to put together but that would be an amazing experiment if you could pull it off!
New Record Day did a review comparing them.
Why is it that speaker manufacturers reveal so little about their crossover designs? Seems like there's a golden opportunity for a confident speaker designer to go full open-kimono and show their customers every single design decision, every part, and the manufacturing process, that goes into building a particular speaker model. Along with publishing all the measurements - in anechoic and non-anechoic settings. I believe that approach would appeal to broad range of people who care about more than just great aesthetics. Also, with fewer and fewer audio shops available, it would help with making a purchase without actually hearing the product first. Many of us rely on reviews to make audio purchase decisions, and having the design decisions, measurements, and parts list - would make those reviews more valuable to a person like me, who does not have easy access to a full range audio shop. I appreciate these videos, because Danny digs into the details like no one else I've seen. And he exposes just how little information manufacturers actually reveal about their products. Sure, we all want a set of speakers that look great, but I also want to know exactly what went into it, and why. And I don't think I'm the only one.
There are only a handful of people that care about those sorts of things and even then you can find all the details online. Driver/speaker designs have been detailed with 3D models and you can find all the small details nowadays. I personally did watch two really long presentations by Kef and how they designed every part. I can understand if there are problems with other manufacturers but Kef seems to be open with everything.
Also, with online stores, you can at least test the gear and return it if you don't like the sound. All of my speakers did sound way different in the store than in my listening space. It's always nice to test speakers before buying but everything sounds different depending on the room. This is why reviewers have all sorts of takes when using the same speaker.
@@audiophil5042 I agree that room acoustics make a huge diff. I have a neighbor who built a pool table room in his basement. All hard surfaces with a concrete floor. He installed an expensive audio system and 4 high-quality speakers, but the room reflections were so bad, it was painful to listen to anything above very low-volume. But I'm pretty sure those same speakers would sound great in my living room - which is full of soft surfaces. Still, I wish manufacturers would do more to reveal their speaker designs - particularly their crossover designs, which have enormous potential for coloring the sound.
@@mxbishop Well, manufacturers only care about selling higher-end gear and offer different price points. Spend more and get better quality/output. It would be a negative business decision to offer an easy way to make modifications. Most audio gear has still great ways to improve things and is semi-easy to repair compared to other modern hardware companies (Apple, Tesla, etc.)
All it takes is one chip inside the gear that disables every modification. The future is not looking bright so I'm happy that consumers have now at least ways to improve speakers. We can just support the brands that are doing a good job. I avoid buying products that become e-waste because of the company's anti-repair design.
Gr research could you cast your eye over the castle Harlech s1's and the castle Howard s3's,,, from the uk
Maybe the customer is over driving their amps and listening to the speaker too loud ? Or has a preamp that is not neutral ?
Hey man, very nice review. Can you point some speaker in the same price range that is actually worth it? Thanks
Yes, visit our website to see options.
was waiting for a sound test 🤷🏼♂️
Come on over and I'll give you one.
Well at least they built a speaker thats worth it for its price point. Would of been nice to turn it in a to a giant killer, it is what it is.
The cap on the tweeter is a little too big. Lower it 1-2uf and it will bring that hump at 4-6k hz down. Then, a 15 deg off axis listening position should be recommended imo.
A few years ago i heard the original LS50; not bad at all, but the mids sounded to nasal, like they're glued to the speaker.
Contradicción completa. Excelente medición, pero , se deduce mal sonidos por los capacitores de bajos?? Confío en Danny por su rigurosidad, y porque obliga a la industria a mejorar sus estándares, pero creo falta el aspecto subjetivo de la audición: como suena?
To me to port noise gets noticeable after around 85 db. That resonance can be solved by pluging it and using a subwoofer.
Youd be surprised. I have one of our high end kits with an external crossover. One pair of crossover's i built uses high-quality parts, the other uses some of the cheapest parts I could find on Parts-Express. On par with the quality seen in the Metas. They measure identically, but sound nothing alike.. the cheap crossovers sounds dull and congested at best.
The reason we dont do listening tests is because customers often only send us a single speaker to save on shipping costs.
We also don't install the upgrades to be able to do before/after testing.
Nice speakers but I had to get rid of them as they were really fatiguing. My music's on most of the day and these were a big no no.
Regarding meta materials, there is a great thread on DIY Audio titled 3d printed meta materials with ton of great info. Recommended reading if you make a video on the topic ❤
do you have any recommendation of amplifiers for best speakers??? you never do a video on amplifiers and dacs and I wonder what are your best 3. Also what are your opinion on dsp crossover like minidsp and car dsp.. versus analog crossover..
I am not a reviewer. What you are seeing is a look into what we have been doing and offering here at GR Research for years. Not all dsp devices are equal. Some are quite bad and should be avoided. The Mini DSP is one of them.
@@dannyrichie9743 Do you think the MiniDSP is sufficient for active crossover for subs? I know Linkwitz used them extensively for the lxmini and lx521.
great video.. external would be nice for that.. have always looked at these.. but meh.
Can these also be used as centre speaker along side left and and right LS 50 Meta’s and would you recommend that or would you recommend another centre that could go well with L/R LS 50 Meta. My other option is the Dali Opticon 2 stand mount and Dali Opticon Vocal Centre. Many thanks.
I wouldn't recommend any of their speakers.
I have the first LS50s and I can listen to them for 2+ hours without a problem. But they are very picky with the amp you match them. I currently use a Moon Simaudio amp that I got second hand, previously I had a Rotel integrated amp and the sound is almost night and day, they are very picky with amplification!
Also, in my experience they can sound thin with a low wattage-current amp. But with the right amp LS50 sound killer for the price
If you plan to amp LS50s with an average AV receiver or a $300 Stereo amp you better look elsewhere
Can I know what was the model of rotel you tried, and what about yamaha as801 to pair with this kef?
Thank you, you've saved me a £1000. I'll hang on to my Monitor Audio Bronze 2's.
It is amazing that you the only reviewer that does not agree with everyone else. Who is right, your ears or the other 20 guys ears?
I am not a reviewer. They were sent to me to see if we could get them to sound better.
Can you look at dynaudio focus 140?
If you send one in.
Q350 please, im sure you can modify it Sir. Nice video
I bought these as a replacment for my Q150s....i cant listen to the metas for no more than 2 hours..the Q150 i can listen to for 4 hours plus no problem..i just prefer the sound of the Qs
What would be the cheapest noticeable increase from the metas?
Man, audiophiles really do over-think stuff.
It's like saying, overpaid or overjoyed.
Sure, maybe, but we prefer it to the alternative.
Man. Einstein sure did some over-think back in the day….
You can’t over think quality. Also when you feel others might be overthinking, pause and wonder if maybe it’s actually you that is under-thinking.
I've been a pedophile going on 15 years now. What you have to understand is that when it comes to audio, every little component adds to the overall sound of your stereo system.
@@brent3086 ayo?
Initially I enjoyed Danny dissections. Now not much. I would highly recommend instead of finding faults with every speaker and then recommending his business as the fix , he could do a real service by recommending speakers that are made well. His videos are at their core advertisements. Now very boring. Always cheesy, ferrous conductors, bad caps, etc. Same themes, different speakers, each and every time.
Well that means they're cheapening out in parts
Did Danny ever address the customer's original complaint about the speaker causing listening fatigue ? Obviously, in this case a flat response is not what the customer wanted to hear.
What is a good bookshelf in your opinion then
Hi, how are you doing? Thanks for your videos. I like to know about B&W 707 how is that speaker 🔊
Send one in and I'll let you know.
Thanks, ive been waitin on this for quite awhile, you may like hearing this, I've had the old ls50 and the meta, I did a direct head to head with the xls-encore maxed on upgrades, and nearfield in a small room the ls50 is great and will do just fine they sound great, but after 80 db or so the o much port chuff and turbulence, woofers works to hard past 80 db, it's great for smaller rooms, but the encores definitely outclassed them in every area, the encore is still my favorite bookshelf I've had, the revel performa m106 are great also, probably top 3. The closest thing to the encore I've found in all areas to date believe it or not, they are not very well known and fairly hard to find, signet sl260 b/u models made in Ohio, seas tweeters and vifa woofers, 1 inch mdf, high quality build, great speakers, are my new favorite bookshelves other than those encores, I'd say it's a close fight between the two, maybe encores edge them out by a slight bit.
I had those Signets. Surprised you like them that much. I found them lacking detail and a bit soft and slow dynamically. Might have been the electronics but with some A/B comparison with a Paradigm Studio 20 v3, the Signet was unimpressive.
@@michaelblumfield3933 everybody has their own thing I suppose, in a 12x12, 21 inches off the floor, off the wall 18 inches with slight toe in, their awesome, top end sparkle, imaging, their bass is good quality and a softer bass similar to ads I've found, midbass character is great also, and top end is smooth even being an aluminum tweeter, I like em really well, and have owned way too many speakers lol, but these are in my top 3 favorite bookshelves for the money, for my room and listening tastes anyway.
@@JukeboxAlley well, glad you like them. Definitely an under the radar speaker that doesn't come up for much discussion these days.
I use the KEF LS50 Meta for both 2 channel listening as well as part of surround sound system. So currently I have the fronts and center being LS50 Meta's and 2 rear Magnepan MC1's plus a transmission line subwoofer which I constructed many years ago. I believe the secret to unlock this system are the amps. A Van Alstine Hafler 220 plus a bunch of Adcom amplifiers seem to do the trick. Iam quite pleased with the performance of the KEF LS50 Meta and for the money I believe they are hard to beat.
They are a lot easier to beat than you think. Every kit we offer will beat up on them pretty badly.
@@dannyrichie9743So.. produce a kit for these... Iam sure you will get a lot of takers even it has to be mounted on the back of the unit.
@@dannyrichie9743 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂. I am certain you think that about every speaker that isn't one you sell or market.
@@tlr5457 Or it could be that I am just being honest and these really aren't that great.
@@dannyrichie9743 Or maybe all independent reviews rate them highly. I find they play all genres well unlike some more expensive speakers.
Never cared for kef that much but these do look cool