Unveiling the KEF LS50 Meta: The Truth Behind the Hype
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ธ.ค. 2023
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I own these speakers, and was so pleased to hear Erin praise their "imaging." That was the very first thing I noticed about them. They are AWESOME at imaging. Extremely precise. They are an excellent choice for a small/medium room, but will not fill a large room very well in my experience (I have the Kef R3 Metas for that). Great review Erin, it confirmed everything I was hearing.
Thanks for sharing!
Imaging monsters ! Imho
Thanks for the input. How do you think they would fair in a 22x19x10 room crossed over with a couple subs. Seated ~15' away.
Honestly, these speakers are probably a little smal! for that size room. I think you'd regret not getting something bigger like the Kef R3 Metas, the Wharfedale Lintons, or the Elac UBR62. All of those are strong neutral speakers that fill the room better imho.
@@DomSchiavoniI don’t think that the LS50’s are really meant for larger rooms (or listening distances).
Take a look at any KEF design from the “R” range (from the R3 to the R11), and you’ll see that none of them has a crossover point nearly as low as the top of what most subwoofers can achieve.
Part of the reason is that those midrange drivers are not meant to have big surrounds around the cone (which improves diffraction), which also means that they couldn’t have great excursion capabilities.
But that’s not the only reason.
Interestingly enough, many people seem to ignore what the main goal of the LS50 was, despite being in their name. 🙂
They were presented as a celebration (anniversary edition) of the earlier BBC LS design speakers, which were made as nearfield monitors.
Sure, the LS50’s are more than half a decade away (and insanely better on every aspect) than the other insanely overpriced ancient shoe boxes (from Spendor, etc), but they’re still small monitors by design, better suited to nearfield listening.
Let me reinforce the concept that adding one or more subwoofers to smaller monitors is not the same as having “proper” woofers on the loudspeakers and then adding up subwoofers, unless we’re talking about nearfield listening.
There’s a reason why a subwoofer isn’t a woofer, and the other way around. 🙂
When you look at the driver size of the LS50 “woofer”, you need to keep in mind that it compares to a smaller “conventional” woofer (all thing being equal), due to its coaxial design.
Thanks for mentioning frequencies for various things like male voices.
The more that we can combine subjective impressions with technical data, the better will be our understanding of playback systems.
I have LS50 (Meta) Wireless II's. I used your sensitivity chart to high pass the mains at 100hz (and low pass the sub at 100hz). It sounds a little better than using a 75hz crossover--the -3db point--which is where I had them crossed over. I also tried setting the crossover at 120hz, and it sounded the same as 100hz. It's also possible to set the high and low pass filters at different points, but I haven't played with that as much.
Nice work. You're helping me get into charts more.
Really like that you have added the distortion measurements with and without sub. Thanks
Thanks. I’ve been doing that for a while now. I just don’t always discuss it.
Another great review. Thank you to @AudioAdvice for helping us out!!!
Thanks, sir!
Nice review. To go with the LS50 Meta, I have a Paradigm PW-Link that runs Anthem's Room Correction software. After watching the review, I opened the software and looked at the frequency plot the software performed. In my room, as with your test, there was a dip in the response just past 2K. The advantage of ARC is that it sees the dip and automatically EQs it out. As such, I find these speakers are excellent for dialog and are enjoyable at low volume. In case you're not familiar with the PW-Link, it's a little black box that supports ARC, Play-Fi, and a DAC (with optical input for a TV). In my case, all I use in the Link is ARC by taking the output from the DAC (via analog in my streaming setup) into the Link, then back out to the Rotel A11 Tribute. I think it would be tough to compensate for the dip you identified without room correction software.
Not given to commenting. What a great review. Much appreciated. Subscribed.
Thanks!
Great review Erin! Used these for nearfield monitors on my gaming rig/listening room and they are awesome speakers with the little tweaks using a omni mic they sound great. Now I need to invest into a subwoofer.
I like your approach to subjectively evaluate the KEF before you look at the measurements. Of course these speakers have been measured by several others, including GR Res & ASR.
An excellent analysis... I think it would be arrogant of me to comment on such scientific data :)) I have owned these speakers for 2 years. I have tried many amplifiers and sources. I always thought that they had a secret area and reaching it was a matter of trying.. he is right. I think I'm out of the woods. Finally, after incorporating the MusicalFidelity A5 amplifier into the system, all the curtains between us and the LS50 have been lifted. The detail I get at low volumes is like a transition to another universe. I think it is necessary to feed them well with pure power. It is not possible for me to give up now. Best regards to everyone.
Great review!
Audio advice has a pretty sweet convention in Raleigh every year iirc.
That deviation comparison between the two speakers is a great test. It gives us an idea of quality control, and I think that's pretty dang important too.
Does it mean we should measure both our speakers and EQ one to the other? 🤯
@@1337sim1If you want. Though, to what degree does it matter? I don't know.
@@1337sim1 I eq both speakers seperately of course.
My set up - Eversolo A6 ME streamer - Denafrips DDC - DAC - powered by Willsenton R8 50W class A set ( rolled PSVane tube ) , RelT5X sub , S2 stands & ISO Gaias , Cardas spkr cables , Jays Audio I2S , Mbps USB connects. Sounds neutral , highly resolving , wide soundstage, sharp imaging etc. in a small room spkrs 2.3M apart and similar distance to listening position , 48cm away from wall
Fantastic job on this. Great video.
Great review, Erin, thank you. I am an LS 50 Meta owner who's had them for two years. Before them I owned the OG LS 50's. The Metas are a great improvement on the originals IMHO. Obviously, neither speaker is for playing at high volumes in a large room. But within their limitations, and using a sub, they provide the opportunity to give the user a healthy helping of the KEF sound for not a lot of money. I use mine with two SB 2000's, Dirac DLBC, and a PEQ supplied by Maiky 76 on ASR.
To me, playing something at 80 db is plenty loud in my small room, and frankly anything that played louder would be a waste of horsepower. So these fit my use case like a glove, and may, I suspect, be what a lot of other people in smaller apartments and listening spaces need at a price they can afford.
Hey, thanks for sharing that info!
I've been using these as near-field monitors at my PC desk since they came out. With a little room corrections with UMIK-1, REW and EqualizerAPO, these sounds lovely.
PS. Before the LS50 Meta, I had the LS50W. I got rid of it after I had to have the electronics inside of them serviced twice in less than 18 months. I'm never getting active speakers ever again after that.
Thank you for saying that, I was considering actives,but your comment has made up my mind!
Man... That sucks for you with the LS50W 😭 happy you're back with passive and can listen to tracks happily! 😎
@@richardjohnston4682 KEF's actives are pretty not great quality. Don't let their shortcomings pushy you away from actives in general.
Sucks that your LS50W didn't last. I've had mine for over 3 years, they were a certified refurb from acessories4less and haven't had an issue.
For what it's worth you may have gone for the wrong brand. I've been rocking 2 pairs of Jbl lsr 305 daily since early 2014 at my computer and at the TV in the living room. No issues ever.
I have a quintet of these LS50 Metas for a small-to-medium (14’x14’x10’) home theater/music setup crossed over at 100Hz with a Rythmik F12 sub. I’ve been very pleased - I haven’t noticed much issue getting playback well into the 90Dbs with some extra headroom. I haven’t heard other concentric-drive speakers to compare, but the imaging is phenomenal. I’ll have to try placing the R/L speakers closer to the back wall and a 2-3kHz EQ bump based on Erin’s listening/measurements.
9:30 look lovely in the grey and red driver combo.
I have LS50 mk1s in black edition.
Just love my matt Black Edition LS50s (with RELs) !
Waited a long time for KEF to come out with them.
Just can't stand kitschy piano lacquer, sorry.
Now waiting for KEF to "see the light" and issue a Black edition LS50meta or R3meta
🎵🎶🤫🎶🎵
@@carlitomelon4610how much were the black edition ls50's?
I have a pair of LS50 Metas on a desk, just a few inches from the wall with the ports plugged and crossed over at 90hz with an RSL 10 inch sub.
My experience aligns very closely to yours and I have been very happy with them.
I'm very antsy while I work, so I tend to move around and change posture often. These allow me to do that without distracting changes in frequency response.
I was previously using a pair of Aperion N5B which were the polar opposite of the Kefs in this regard (and many others)
Thanks for sharing!
You enjoying that TMNT A1U arrcade? No brainer, exactly. When it went on sale for $1000, I abandoned all my other options and got it before it sold out. Enjoying them but I wonder if I need a power amp. I only have a Yamaha A4A receiver. I also got grey, but plan on getting the R3 when they go on sale; they dont come in grey :( You think a class D amp would be good with the meta?
Hi Erin, hope you have a merry Christmas. For a near field desktop setup with a good sub, would you prefer these or the Ascend Acoustics Sierra 1 you reviewed not long ago?
For the same price
I’d probably take these LS50 because they’re less critical of vertical positioning and that’s a big factor in nearfield listening.
Thanks 👍
Hey Erin.. Which did you “subjectively enjoy“ more, the LS50 Meta’s or the AA Sierra-1 V2’s?
Hmmmm. I’d probably say the AA for tonality but the LS50 for soundstage.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks Erin👍🏼..
Hey Erin! Thanks a bunch for sharing this review. I've been tinkering with the PEQ settings on my WIIM Pro to tackle the 2K - 4K range, but I'm still not quite satisfied with the results. I shared your video with my Facebook groups, and it's been a hit!
I'd love to hear your thoughts on how you'd set the PEQ for that range. Any advice or tips you could offer would be super helpful. Keep up the awesome work, and cheers to more great content!
for the fun of it, try the following:
1 band of EQ @ 2300Hz.
+3.2dB
Q = 2
I love your enthusiasm and thank you for responding 😂 it was missing a little in the high frequencies and I feel you got me closer. Appreciate it Erin!
The speaker deviation was really nice to see, hope you do it more :)
Interesting! This proves that sometimes all the technical Measurments in the world can not equal "ears". I'm a speaker junkie. I have or had Klipsch Forte, Magnepan LRS, Pensil 10, Dahlquest DQ10, etc, etc, etc.....And the LS50 Metas are by far, easily one of the best speakers these "ears" have ever heard. I've had a number of audiophile friends over to listen to them and a few have sold their much more expensive speakers and bought LS50 Metas. I use mine in a 24 x 12 x 8 heavily damped room, using a Tuibes4HiFi ST120 "Dynaco " tube amp, a Pass Lab First Watt F5, Akitika Z4 and a couple others. Sometimes I turn on my 10" B&W Subwoofer, but usually not. Listening to mostly Progressive Jazz and Classical. Hope this helps some that might be thinking of joining the Meta bandwagon.
The original LS50 was nice and had a unique sound that somehow accentuated everything. Not my thing, but I appreciated them. The Metas imo are more normal sounding, but also lack character. I'd take a Revel M16's for example over them every time.
What's the difference between these and the revels?
Distortion and subwoofer integration - you talked about distortion at different frequencies and the fact that using a sub remedied the low end distortion. However, it would be interesting to know if the high frequency distortion also disappeared if you used a high pass filter so that the LS50 Meta only had to deal with high frequencies. Great review by the way Erin.
Great review as always.🙂 Hope you have a great Christmas and Happy New Year.
Thank you! You too!
Nice, doing great with all these reviews!
These speakers have a prominent veil imo. I understand this is likely a product of what I go to for reference, and I would only settle for a speaker in this size range for a nearfield desk top.
Love the expanded subjective portion up front. Hopefully you don’t get too beat up for doing it 😉
I enjoy it. I used to say all that stuff anyway but then edit it out. I am just going with it. And I feel like it makes the videos more well rounded when it comes to relating the data to my listening impressions.
Thank you for looking at the speaker data after you listen to it and formed an opinion. This is the way it should be.
Great review, and one that I’ve searched for in all your reviews some months ago. 🙂
I was seriously considering buying a pair, but I’m glad I didn’t (not that your review said anything negative about it, of course)! 🙂
John Atkinson (who actually own and loves the LS50 since the first generation) mentioned on a video interview how great they were at imaging, but at the same time, he referred how the huge Wilson’s from Michael Fremer (which are huge and placed in a very tight space) played back a big orchestra, while the LS 50’s played a small one.
No, I’m not comparing loudspeaker with such different price and size points, that would be stupid! 😁
What I am saying is that imaging is just one aspect of sound reproduction, and if I could hardly think about too many loudspeakers that are so far away from a single point source as those huge Wilsons, specially at that listening distance!
Now let’s keep the Wilsons out of this topic and get back to way cheaper and smaller tower loudspeakers in the price range of the LS 50 + stands + subwoofer! 😉
While they won’t hit 20Hz by themselves, many will bring a big soundstage to the table, because there’s only so much a small driver can do, and many tower speakers at that price range might use one driver of that size for the mids alone, while having other drivers for the remaining frequencies.😉
Small speakers like these (or studio monitors like the Neumann range, who will probably blow these out of the water, while including bi-amplification, DSP and room correction) can be great at nearfield listening, but unlike the pro studio market, these KEFs are not advertised as such.
Some small rooms do increase the bass output, but that’s not always the case, as on of my smaller rooms insists on showing me by “eating” a lot of bass (if the dimensions become closer to a square shape, it can easily happen).
Your objective review also shows what so many subjective reviews have said over the years, which is their combination of a relatively low sensitivity with a real-world impedance of 4 ohms, that dip to near 3 Ohms on certain frequencies.
While that is far from unique, it does imply that in order to get the best out of them, they should be paired with a real 4 Ohm rated amplifier, with more than entry-level power specs.
That also adds up to the overall cost of these speakers, since most prospective buyers won’t be powering them with McIntosh amps. 😉
I’m going to avoid talking about loudspeakers that you didn’t review (which excludes a lot of tower speakers), and go back to the Wharfedale Linton that you reviewed and loved.
Since they cost around the same (at least over here, in Europe), if you could only have one of these two loudspeakers, would you rather have the LS 50’s or the Lintons? 😉
Would you rather have this close to perfect imaging, or a much wider and “bigger” sound? 😉
The whole reason why I bring this up is not as a question of “which is better”, but instead of how important is a larger scale in music reproduction vs that precise imaging on a much “smaller” overall sound scale? 🙂
No I didn’t buy the Lintons, but if I could only have one pair of loudspeakers between these two, I wouldn’t buy the KEFs.
Bear in mind that I really love KEF and what it has been doing for loudspeaker design! 🙏
But I would love to see you reviewing a similar priced floorstander from KEF (from the Q range), and see how they compare.
I would expect the LS 50’s clearly winning on the Klippel, but would they win in your living room? 🙂
I guess this is my long winded way of saying that I would love to see you reviewing more tower speakers, specially now that you bought the Klippel extension. 🙂
While I love subwoofers when properly integrated with the mains, if you (or your room) need a bit more energy around 125 Hz, most subwoofers won’t be able to take care of it.
You might ask more output to a small 5” driver in that case, but we’ll likely be hitting compression or added distortion earlier.
There are several reasons why every “meta” design from KEF that has one or more additional dedicated woofer has its crossover point way higher than 90% of subwoofers are able to reach, including their own subwoofer lineup (if memory serves me well).
While I don’t have any reservation on using good performing and properly aligned subwoofers, I’m not convinced that a small bookshelf is always a good pairing (specially if you can’t do any sort of bass management to them, and are still feeding them with full range signal).
But yes, loudspeakers are all about compromises, and the LS 50’s already have their place in audio history. 🙂
Thank you for this very informative review of yours, as always. I've owned these speakers for a year and I had already ended up positioning them exactly as you suggest. Nice to find some of my listening impressions (those of a very lay person) backed by your objective and subjective data. I've listened other reviewers judging them bright speakers and that almost led me to question whether I had bought a flawed sample.
I can’t imagine how anyone would consider these bright. That’s … different.
Never trust reviews that don't provide measurements and scientific data and if they do, then ensure they do it properly.
What speakers do you like that will satisfy you.
I've owned Kef 104s in the past with Macintosh mc275 and Mac C28 preamp.
I liked them .
Depends on what you're looking for. I've listened to a lot that I enjoy. These KEF speakers are quite nice. No speaker is perfect.
@ErinsAudioCorner you are absolutely right. We all have a somewhat liking of brand that sounds pleasing to our ears, with budget in mind, what is yours as an analysis.
Thx replying
Your review is spot on to my experience. I've had them for over a year. Glad I didn't pay full price then. At $1k they are a no brainer. I have them angled exactly as you, within a 7ft equilateral triangle, 3ft into a small room. Using an SVS Micro 3000 sub. With my streamer's digital EQ I have it bumped up right where you recommend. Have high and low pass filter set at 80 on a Halo Hint 6. This is the best review of these speakers I've watched.
Would you recommend KEF Q250/650, LS 50 Meta or R2/R6 Meta as matching centre for LS 50 Meta L/R?
I asked about the same thing. Hopefully someone can help answer it. I need a center speaker to pair with my ls50 meta .
How about these on a desktop? That's what I've been considering these for.
I think that’s a very good option.
That was my question, too. Thanks!
2-3khz dip - It seems like Kef are quite particular about their design and development so it seems surprising to see that dip. Almost as if it's no accident? Erin, so you think it's a design fault? If not then what could be their reason for doing it? You provided a great view on low frequency roll off (due to the speakers being designed to sit closer to the wall) so I would be interested in your musings on the dip.
Glad you got to these speakers despite their age. I recently bought a pair and my experience aligns with your explanations. I love good audio, but given my space and aesthetic constraints, can't do 3 feet away from any wall boundary. I also have to opt for smaller bookshelf even though I know bigger stand mounts will get me closer to the sound I strive for. I experimented quite a bit, no plug, partial plug and full plug, tow in, minor spacing adjustments from the wall and different amplification. I also prefer a minimal setup - no sub if possible. For my space, I found a got better bass extension just as you said, approximately 10-12 inches from rear wall, no plugs. These are a good value for small room setups. I get the more immersive sound if I crank the volume or sit a bit closer.
Thanks for the feedback!
Where exactly would you bump the dip? I'm about to install a minidsp and I've never EQ'd before. Thanks
Try this:
2500Hz
Q = 2
Gain = +2dB
@@ErinsAudioCorner I was a bit underwhelmed and couldn't quite figure out why until your video. Thank you so much! Have a feeling this will bring it all into balance.
Awesome review Erin! I was hoping you would compare it to similarly priced alternatives... I have Q150 with sub and thinking to upgrade to ls50 meta, what do you think about that? Thank you
I did just that although I had some modded Pioneer SP-C22's in between. The 150's were good with imaging, but not great with a bit of head vice issues. They do make great centers for my other home theater systems. The first thing I noticed with the LS50 besides the phenomenal imaging was actually the bass. It just sounded 'right'. Note that I use them with Def Tech 8 inch sub and a Denon AVR X3300W with Audyssey XT32 Flat and Dynamic EQ set at -10db in a desktop setup.
That 2kHz-3kHz scoop dip was definitely noticeable in my listening tests and made it easy to always pick out this model from the the others under comparison.
EQ’ing it out has no negative drawbacks or no?
Like, comment and subscribed
Excellent review
Why are everyone thinking this speaker is great except for Dannie from GR research
I want to know how the ls60 would performe as it has even smaller Chasis it would sound worst at high spl arround 2000hz and up where the Woofers cant help anymore
KEF uniQ drivers are truly innovative and take the mickey our of all these super expensive high-end brands.
With so many Uni-Q iterations, and now this LS50 platform being quite mature, I'm curious if the slight ~2k pulldown is intentional.
I have a feeling it is. KEF definitely would know it’s there. I can’t imagine them doing anything that’s not intentional (or an intentional compromise for their lower cost line).
@@ErinsAudioCorner
Agreed
Would have been interesting to have heard some comparison to the LS50 II's you reviewed prior since they were esentially Active LS50 Meta's and also the R3 Meta to see how it may improve on some of the LS50 Meta weak points.
I never tested the original LS50. I actually forgot I tested the wireless II until after I posted the video on Patreon. 🤦♂️
@@ErinsAudioCorner I was still referring to the LS50 Meta vs the R3 Meta, since it's an obvious step up for most LS50 Meta owners. I'm sure the R3 Meta improves on some of the LS50 Meta's shortcomings.
@@ericjohnson829 I actually had it in there but edited it out to trim the video down some.
End result: R3 Meta is a more neutral speaker with about 3dB higher sensitivity. The dip in the 2-3kHz of the LS50 META isn’t there with the R3 META.
It's so cool that we have this professional data AND your subjective opinion. Thank you so much Erin!
It also fits my experience with the original LS50. I thought it had no bass but other than that, very clear and clean sound if you keep the volume level reasonable.
Absolutely need a sub, I would say, even for music listening!
Thanks for sharing!!
Really useful video. I've been using My LS50 Meta's for TV (much nicer than a soundbar imo) lately and sometimes find dialogue to be muddled. I was thinking maybe I need a centre channel speaker but now I'm going to use your EQ recommendations and see if that fixes things. Thank you sir, I subscribed! 🍻
*Edit*
I raised parametric eq in Roon 2db between 2 and 3 Khz and it worked really really well. Only problem now is I don't watch TV through Roon haha. Should have seen that coming.. On to the next set of speakers 😅
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for letting me (us) know!
Can’t you just use a Schiit Loki equalizer? It’s like $150, made in the USA, and totally transparent, except for the EQ part. It certainly does the job and it’s knobs are immediately accessible to compensate for less than optimal recordings, ie, no menus necessary.
Surely you can implement a minidsp in the chain somewhere. Much cheaper alternative
Thanks for the suggestions guys. The Loki sounds like a great idea. Unfortunately I’m using a Peachtree Gan 1 and Bluesound node in this room (not compatible). While the node has basic tone controls, it lacks a parametric EQ. I’ve got a pretty good “Plan B” burning in as I type this however. 😉
Thanks for these videos! Any thoughts of these verses the Ascend Sierra 1v2s, assuming both would be used with a sub? Thanks!
Xmas is coming up. I’m looking for two sets of new speakers for the holiday. New bookshelves for my front of my home theatre (I have two PB3000 subs) and also two speakers for my computer, so some near field bookshelves.
For the holidays have you thought of doing a video or series of videos for the “best” speaker at various price points? Like say your recommendation for best home theater speaker at $200/600/1000 etc? Same for other types? Could be a good little series of videos leading up to the holidays and not too time consuming since you wouldn’t have to do more measurements
I made one earlier this year for under $2500 but also have cheaper speakers in there. I may revisit that when I find more speakers under $500 that are worth recommending.
@@ErinsAudioCornerfor sure it was great.
Erin, how often do you find an differences between two of the same model of speakers when doing the measured tests?
It’s been a while since I’ve done objective measurements of both to compare, but in the past when I used to do it more regularly, it wasn’t uncommon to find differences of two or 3 dB, mainly in more budget oriented speakers.
@@ErinsAudioCornerVery, very, interesting. That makes me wonder about some of the speakers out there. Thanks for the info!
Hey Erin - you should do a video on the perceived differences in wider versus narrower radiation patterns. I'm in the process from swapping from OG KEF LS50s to Ascend Acoustics ELX towers (titan dome tweeters) and while I do notice a bit of a difference in the imaging from the coincident drivers, I'm also noticing a difference that might be from a wider radiation pattern. Do you feel like sound that comes from a wave guide is perceived differently by a listener that can't just be summed up as imaging or soundstage depth/width? If you have speakers that 'beam' more of the sound power at you, versus reflecting it off the surroundings... does that present as 'forward'?
I think the main disadvantage of the OG LS50s is that little mid-driver is trying to do a LOT. Running them full range is probably not the best use of their capabilities - it felt like the bass and lower mids struggled with 'busier' music. Filtering out the bass (maybe below 80-100hz) and using a subwoofer would probably help a ton. Unfortunately I can't do that easily with my preamp.
Great idea on a video not comparing individual speakers but rather speaker traits(like wide/narrow radiation pattern. Would certainly need a lot of talk about room interactions as well and that is where many reviewers fall short. By only reviewing in one room you can only comment on how they sound in that room. An ideal review would talk about how the speaker sounds both a small room as well as a large room as it is common for people to have smaller bedroom setups and larger family room setups.
Subs can be great, but without EQ are terrible IMO
Do you have a sub? Grab a MiniDSP and drop a steep 100cross on em and correct the low frequencies !
@@DomSchiavoni I just got a Rythmik E15HP2 which has a ton of settings but I can't use it as a high pass filter ahead of the speaker amp. With the 600w plate amp, there's XLR2 configuration that can be used as a fixed 80 hz high pass filter. I just had to get the 1000W amp version...which just has a few parametric eq settings for the sub and multiple XLR inputs, but no XLR outputs.
For how I have my front end set up I think I'd need a configurable high pass filter between preamp and amp if I wanted to run bookshelves long term. I haven't given a huge amount of thought to EQ/DSP for addressing room modes. I'll probably spend some time on that as I set up the subwoofer and get the speakers positioned.
@ErinsAudioCorner I have these speakers but was looking at the Sourcepoint 8 to get the imaging benefits of concentric design but with better dynamics than the ls50. What would be your choice since you just reviewed both?
Personally, I would get the MoFi 8 without question. For one it seems to do better with dynamics, but also it doesn’t have that dip in the upper presence region that the LS 50 has. Unless, of course, you like that. Subjectively speaking, I prefer a more neutral speaker through that region. Having these back to back, I just prefer the MoFi 8. But it is 2 to 3 times the price so it’s not quite an apple, apples comparison. And preferences matter.
As a cheap plug, if you do wind up getting the MoFi, please consider using my affiliate link. It would definitely help me out but won’t cost you anything extra. But if you don’t feel comfortable with affiliate links or you think it’s shilling, then I understand.
howl.me/cleSP9AdFom
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks, Erin. Love your work. I’ll be using your affiliate link 😊
Done! 👀😎👀
Oh, dang! Thanks! Most of the time people wind up going another route so I don’t expect it to happen. So thanks!
@@ErinsAudioCorner Well, full disclosure, I have 60 days to demo them in my room. If they deliver more than my ls50s I plan to keep them. If not, they’ll go back. Not sure how that impacts you in that scenario. But hey, I used the link none the less :)
Hi Erin, wow graet review i just subbed. I dont know why but i really want these speakers. I need a new amp and was wondering if you could help match them in my budget of 2000 and under please thank you!
How far away are you sitting and how loud do you typically like to listen (if you’re not sure then that’s fine; I find most overestimate without an SPL meter).
Usually about 8 to 10 feet away I'd say and I don't listen super loud I think from 50 to 70 max
looks like a 50w amp will be adequate for those listening levels while still giving you “headroom” for dynamics.
There are a lot of options out there. This one costs $999 and looks like it would fit the bill pretty well. I’ve know a few people who use it and it works for them.
NAD C268: howl.me/clfZeNZfiWG
Otherwise, you can look at offerings from Rotel, and BoXem who seem to make quality gear in this price range.
Thank you so much really appreciate it!
Own them and love them - even the BBC dip that's in there (great for nearfield, which works with what others have said in comments here).
thanks erin I really appreciate the information you make available to us!🤩
I'm still debating between the new kef r3 meta or investing more in regular ref 1s second hand...I work professionally in room acoustics And if I had to guess, I would guess that the specific dip in the speaker's frequency curve is very deliberate! why you ask? Because our head-related transfer function (HRTF), most of the people have +17 dB at +-2,700 Hz and we all boost the 2-5k ...
I appreciate your work, I like your channel and am also a member of ASR and I do believe they do a good job. If you allow for only a small criticism... I always try to promote reviewing products in their category. So, when it comes to bass, it would be fair to draw a parallel to other speakers that have the same mid/bass surface area. Bearing in mind it's not even the diameter, since the middle in fact doesn't participate in bass reproduction.
The result of such an approach would be that LS50 Meta doesn't give "enough" bass even in smaller rooms, but it's up there with the best of them when factoring in the surface of the mid/bass driver.
Every sincarnation of these damn Q-Thingies has a different on-axis FR !!!
It would be interesting to see a sub @ a higher crossover and see if the tweeter distortion drops further. I cross mine w/stereo subs at ~125. Great review thanks!
It’s fair to notice that the R3 has it’s crossover point to the bass unit at 430 Hz, which is more than one octave above your subwoofer crossover point. 😉
Yes, the midrange driver of the R3 is a true midrange driver, and not a “woofer” like the LS50.
But it also seems to suggest that there are several good reasons for that particular choice, and it doesn’t seem very likely that the tweeter would benefit a lot from crossing over at 125 Hz, if it only starts playing closer to 1 KHz (considering the low order slopes used by KEF).
Intermodulation distortion doesn’t seem to be an issue with other coaxial designs, according to Erin’s recent reviews.
@MrRocktuga thanks that's food for thought. That said, the r3 and ls50 do not use the same drivers so I'm not sure how important that is. I do know that audiosciencereview found significantly lower distortion at a slightly higher crossover, and it would be nice to see if those results are replicable.
Hey Erin, this is completely unrelated to the vid, but would you be interested in measuring Neumanns? I am aware that Neumann already has very good data of their speakers, plus there's also Klippel NFS data by Amir for basicalky every model currently in production, but I'd like to see another set of anechoic measurements just to confirm it's mind boggling linearity(and also it's compression data), plus I'm curious how distortion looks in the format you post. Also would love your thoughts on their speakers, they should all be fantastic sets haha. I unfortunately do not have one to send over to you(nor do I live near enough to realistically do so), so that means we'd need someone from the community to provide one......hopefully someone does if you're keen :)
Edit: Completely forgot to mention this, but Neumanns supposedly have problems when the speaker's themselves are in a cold environment(or rather if the speaker themselves are cold).
I’d be open to it but haven’t had any offers and TBH there are so many others that haven’t been reviewed that I think it makes more sense to spend time on some of those. Overlap is fine. I just try to be selective of the overlap.
@@ErinsAudioCorner I guess all we can do is wait, hopefully someone comes along with a set. I'm surprised no one has though honestly, they're fantastic monitors with superb measurements. Also, good luck on getting everything you need to out 😁
Nice to have the bookshelves an Tower to compare them. =) Happy Holidays!
Happy holidays!
huh i’ve never tried towing speakers out away from each other. is this specific to listening distance, like if listening near-field would it make less sense to do this vs mid or far ish field?
I have the same question...
Hi Erin. Thank you for the very informative review. I am new to this hobby and confess I dont understand all the measurements but you do a great job of explaining them. I have the LS50 Meta's on order for a bedroom and will be driving them with a Bluesound Powernode that puts out 80W per channel. I dont know if it still does 80W at 4 ohms though. Do you think it should be enough power to listen at reasonable volumes (80db and below). Also, I am one of those that cant pull it far from the wall so was glad to hear you mention that aspect. The Powernode allows me to do a high pass filter, lets say I set it to 80Hz, does that further negate the distance from the wall issue? I will have them at maybe 10 inches. I do have a RSL 10 inch speedwoofer too.
Hey, glad the videos are some help! It’s not all easy to understand but I try to explain things the best I can. Hopefully you’ll keep coming back and it makes sense the more you watch.
Yes, using a HPF on them with a subwoofer will help with that wall placement as well. The port is effective below about 60Hz so as long as your crossover is voice that then placing them closer to the wall will have less impact on the port itself. Still, you’ll want to play with placement a bit and also with placement of the subwoofer.
I have Kef LS 50 Metas and KC 62 sub with powernode, and the sound is really impressive. Surprisingly great. My speakers are close to the wall so I have the ports filled with the pad that comes with the speakers. My sub is crossed over at 80 htz. The imaging is spooky good, the sound is super clear without being fatiguing, and the speakers completely disappear in my room. You will like this combination.
@@scottzahn3298 that's great to hear. I can't wait till mine get here. Thanks
Has been the best speaker review channel, is the best speaker review channel, will be the best speaker review channel. You're awesome, Erin!
Wow, thanks! 😬😬😬
Thanks for reviewing. What height were the stands you used? I'm using 24" with my pair, but wondering if higher stands would make an improvement.
I was listening with the speakers even vertically at my ear or slightly below my ears.
As always great review! Dont you think the percise/ good imaging is more the result from the linear radiation pattern (or directivity?) especial the identical vertical without the classical lobing effect from 2way speaker? Had the sourcepoint8 same qualities? I had the old LS50 in my office room and use one of them now as layed center speaker with eq, superb small solution if you dont need to play more than 85 db, wich i never do. Whish you a nice Christmas Time!
I think that plays a part. Other designs with poor directivity have weird issues near the crossover. Worst offender so far to my ears was the Klipsch Heresy IV.
You can't eliminate SBIR in a domestic room, unless you live in a cathedral or actual movie theater. All moving the speakers different distances from room boundaries does is change the center frequency of the interference. Moving them as close as possible to the wall behind them actually reduces problems from that wall while increasing bass output, which is easily cut with EQ. I just set up HDI-1600's to replace my Prime Towers and found that moving them from 24" stands to 32" stands eliminated a lot of SBIR around 100 - 200Hz, filling in a lot of missing energy in that region. The speakers now sound great with no EQ above 100Hz. I realized that I had them two feet from the side wall and two feet from the floor, which doubled the SBIR. I guess my "pro tip" here would be to make sure the speakers are *different* distances from each room boundary.
Getting back to the KEF, I'm pretty disappointed in their maximum output capability and low frequency extension. The high cutoff might even make subwoofer integration challenging, but pushing them against a wall could help. I think my ideal setup would be something like the KEF tweeter/midrange mounted IN-WALL at ear height, with a vertical array of woofers at different heights.
Grate review as usual, could you please compare the old LS50 vs the LS50 meta?
That dip isn't mid-range compensation (BBC curve) engineered into the speaker?
Please compare goldenear brx
Blasting through these reviews!
Seeing the LP sleeves on the wall, I want to ask: Do you still play LP's?
Rarely. But yes.
@@ErinsAudioCorner It's going to be too late for christmas, but i'd like to send you a record as a gift. I'll get in touch with you. :)
Hell I would of sent ya mine !
My treated nearfield room bass is exellent ! Espically for size ' articulate bass ' even on complex recordings Black light syndrome Duende Ohhh my '
Thanks Arron appreciate you my dude ' Merry Christmas to you and your family
finnaly!!! thank you :)
I have mine in my living room which is open to my kitchen and dining room. Not exactly an ideal for small speakers. I have a REL T5 to help with the bottom end. All that being said, they do sound nice from my sofa, about 9’ away from them. My wife, who normally doesn’t care about such things, recently said she is enjoying listening to music on the system. That’s a win.
Hi Erin, you are very experienced in car audio and I was wondering if you could answer this for me. Why do cars with even 2-4 cheap little stock 6inch woofers have way more mid-bass thump and clearer vocals than hi-fi speakers/subwoofers?
You mean car vs home?
Usually a) cabin gain and/or b) OEM DSP tuning to enhance bass to get people to buy the car. Beware the latter, though, because they often use limiters to control the low frequency extension at higher volume.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks for the reply and I will look into how cabin gain and DSP effects this. Yes I am talking car vs home. And yes I know what you mean about the volume being severely limited in the OEM car stereos I'm talking about. I just find interesting that there's very little discussion online about how expensive hi-fi systems almost never match the tactile mid-bass response or vocal clarity of even cheap OEM car systems.
Thanks for this excellent in-depth review. I'm convinced that the "concentric" / "coaxial" design of speakers like these will often provide better overall performance than speakers with separately spaced drivers. I think if you matched these LS50s with a quality subwoofer at about 100Hz crossover you'd have a great combination.
I would be really curious to see if you did notice the change in soundstage width when towing in and towing out once you EQ that 2khz back up to be flat.
I wouldn’t expect that I would but it would be interesting.
Love my LS50 (non meta's) from 2019.
The original LS50s show a slightly elevated response between 2-3k in JA measurements. Meta version appears to be a crossover re-voice and meta material…if the meta material diffuser does anything audible, it will be in the highest frequencies/shortest wavelengths
JA also reported that the original LS 50 had their tweeter wired out of phase with the woofer, the newer Metas now having both the woofer and tweeter wired in phase. That will have much effect on response right near the crossover point,
@@daniannaci3258 gotta change something if you can’t change drivers or box 😉
I'm glad to see you tested the pair. I do believe that consistency in the pairs frequency response is one of the key factors in sound stage, especially imaging. Even a couple decibels difference will cause the image to move slightly. Certainly would like to see this data more . It is a good indicator of quality control. In this case it shows everything is closely matched. That 1/2 decibel difference couldn't happen without it. Aluminum cones not surprised about the distortion at high SPL. A little surprised about that dip in the midrange.
LS 50 Meta or MOFI Sourcepoint 8?
A couple others asked this so I’ll just copy/paste my reply here:
Personally, I would get the MoFi 8 without question. For one it seems to do better with dynamics, but also it doesn’t have that dip in the upper presence region that the LS 50 has. Unless, of course, you like that. Subjectively speaking, I prefer a more neutral speaker through that region. Having these back to back, I just prefer the MoFi 8. But it is 2 to 3 times the price so it’s not quite an apple, apples comparison. And preferences matter.
As a cheap plug, if you do wind up getting the MoFi, please consider using my affiliate link. It would definitely help me out but won’t cost you anything extra. But if you don’t feel comfortable with affiliate links or you think it’s shilling, then I understand.
howl.me/cleSP9AdFom
@@ErinsAudioCorner thank you for your response. If I do end up buying the MoFi I will certainly use your affiliate link.
@@ErinsAudioCorner one more comparison. Kef R3 Meta at $2200 or Mofi 8? Thanks again
@@PeterPunohmmmm… my gut says MoFi but that could be recency bias.
Kef uni-q uses a first order crossover. The benefit is that the signal passes through the least amount of components possible, the drawback is that the tweeter/woofer have to play way lower/higher than a second order crossover. Most consequential, the tweeter has to have more excursion to play the lower notes and this leads to more distortion.
Exactly
Thanks I just pick them up
maybe the ls60 clarity was too superior? and ur brain remember it?
hehe
great review
yeah man, measuring both speakers FR is a good idea... maybe not for every speaker you do but sanity check sort of thing.
I'm driving them with a Yamaha R-N803. It should be the same amp as A-S801 plus other feature, among whom bass management. I cross them over at 80 Hz with the Kc62 sub. Should I upgrade the amp, I would consider a Nad c399 (o c389) with Dirac. Glad to hear that they can be equalised with good results.
5:00 ... "I got my tongue stuck in my eyetooth and I couldn't see what I was saying" 🥴
Distrotion at 96dB does not make sense:
In this review distortion is much lower around 450 and 1800 Hz compared to Erin's measurements of the active version of this speaker LS50 Wireless II. What's more also ASR distortion measurements of passive LS50 Meta agrees with Erin's LS50 Wireless II measurements. Still a bit too much distortion, even if it is much better than LS60 above 500 Hz.
Very useful review - thank you.
The Wireless II uses dsp limiting so the SPL isn't actually the same. Look at the compression for the wireless II.
Amir's HD measurements are not done anechoically, as well. They are somewhat nearfield to help mitigate the room influence but not close enough to get rid of all of it. My HD measurements are done anechoically so there is no room influence. You can't compare our results that way, unfortunately.
Why is there a diffraction dip at 8khz but not anywhere else?
Add one (or preferably 2) subs with a high pass filter.
It takes the strain off them trying to do bass, gives them more headroom and they really sing.
I think the data proves the people wrong who say the LS50 with subwoofers, crossed at 80hz…can compete with the KEF Blades
@@1337sim1 LS60? I was referring to KEF Blade
@@seanb3303 lol my bad 😅😅😅
@@1337sim1 hahaha strawman!!!!!!!! 😀
Just deleted my nonsense comment. Forgot to read properly!
I have owned both iterations of the LS 50's and love them, but never in my wildest, hallucinogenic-fed dreams would I consider LS 50's (or LS 60's for that matter) to be equal to the Blades. If you are in a smaller room and want an edge of the art Kef experience with all the dynamic range, the Reference 1 Metas are what you are looking for.
Please review the Wharfdale dx-3. 5.1 system, I can't find much about them
Im not a KEF owner but they have been making some pretty good speakers/drivers. Most people are going to use a sub regardless of the main bookshelf speakers. KEF's arent a bad choice, especially for some of the prices they go for.
15:00 I think they call that the BBC dip
Yeah, I’ve seen it referred to that many times. But I’ve also seen it referred to that with different shapes. I’m sure it was intentional, regardless of what we call it.
Yes, the model number hints at this. KEF also made drivers for some earlier BBC monitors.
Since much of your impressions are based on the room i think it could be beneficial for you to show us the room including the various ways you positioned the speakers. Also, including an EQ'd listening session could be very beneficial to those of use who use EQ as speaker-to-speaker frequency response becomes mostly irrelevant.(especially when pairing with subwoofer(s))
Great review, I like the format with impressions first then test results!!
Lastly, Is there a way to contact you with questions about room setup? I would gladly toss you some cash for a quick review of my setup as i am actively reconfiguring a dedicated listening room and looking to replace my bookshelf speakers that are paired with dual subs all of which are optimized with miniDSP&dirac.
E Dizzle yo yo
I just bought these and hooked them up to my marantz cinema 50 and they sound insane. They sound bad with my yamaha a2a. Put my cinema 50 back downstairs. Getting an onkyo zr50 for them. Bass sounds bloated with all receivers. Run the metas with 60hz crossover. Don't let your receiver run these full range. They will bottom out bad