Don't Believe the Hype! Everything that Glitters Isn't Gold
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ส.ค. 2022
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I have bought a lot of high end hi fi components over the years. I found the quality of the recording made the biggest difference in sound quality.
Yep... High end audio equipment has one drawback... It reveals a crap recording right away.
No doubt.
yep. Recording > Speaker > Source. I've heard differences between amps, especially tube amps, but to call them anything but minor or subtle would be disingenuous. Cables even more so in this regard
Yes sir. Don’t know why this is made more apparent. Also, many reviewers are testing speakers thru 5,000 dollars worth of gear and up. This also makes a huge difference. Hi res files thru a top notch streamer, sent to a top dollar external dac, and then sent to a very high end amplifier also tilts the field. Most any semi reputable speaker is going to sound quality when hooked up to gear like this.
Fully agree
I’m surprised the LS50 is so polarizing! I picked up a pair during COVID shutdowns for $750! I paired them with a McIntosh preamp/ Parasound amp. I have them about 6 feet apart with no toe-in, 3 feet out from the wall and the listening position is about 7.5 feet away. My room is 25x15. I have an RSL sub. I listen to mostly jazz, classical, and well-recorded pop/rock. I seldom listen over 80dB. They are absolutely amazing. The imaging is incredible and the speakers disappear. They sound very neutral and musical.
Part of the issue is knowing their strengths. They aren’t the best for every situation, to be sure. But, in the right set-up and with the right listening habits, they are crazy good.
I think the host of the show and maybe one other or the only ones that doesn't like them. Everybody else seems happy with him. I know I am.
My main guess (since I have never heard them) is that you need a really good and probably expensive amplifying system for them similar to Magnepans.
beautiful speakers as well as the triangle BR03. kefs are nicer, no question. beautiful soundstage, liquid vocals!
Those Amp and Dac is most probably more costlier than the speakers, and plus you have the subwoofer. I think that may have made the difference.
Randy's philosophy is that any speaker should work properly with a decent Amp and Dac ,which I agree to also as there are many speakers which can do that.
Hence, I think LS50 is handicapped. However, if you are enjoying it good for you.
I did listen to the LS50 with dedicated stands once at a stereo shop. They was on loan from a distributor. I listened to them with the shop owner through an upper-end Marantz integrated amp, Marantz CD player, and good cables. They sounded awful - not at all musical. The shop owner agreed and just wanted them out of his shop. I asked him why they were so popular and well reviewed. His only guess was “pay to play”…lots of money invested in advertising.
I think the main reason opinions on the LS50 are so polarizing are because people who like them haven't compared them to other speakers; they just buy them based on reviews or because they're on sale. Try comparing the LS50 to a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 300 7G and you'll understand what I'm talking about. Granted, they're more expensive than the LS50 but more commensurate in quality with your amp and preamp.
That's awesome that one of my comments made the video! I must tell you that even though I was pointing out the Denafrips Ares II and Sennheiser HD650 are overhyped, I was trying to say that I enjoy them immensely, but the amount of HYPE was exhausting. I couldn't be happier with both of these products, they are integral parts of my setups!! 😊
I have a very similar thought about the HD6XX. Way overhyped headphone. When I finally got a pair, I was very disappointed for several days. Once my expectations met reality, I started enjoying them. I’ve grown to love them, but they are definitely overhyped.
An easy fix for the kefs is to just buy the wireless II. You won't need to worry about finding the right match for amplification
There are people that say "Cables make a difference", but they are always UNABLE to prove or demonstrate that they do.....huge difference.
The main reason I prefer lossless audio is for future proofing my music collection. I have all my files in FLAC, and can encode to any format needed. This saves me from having to re-rip, or download (from bandcamp) if supported codecs change over time. I only do this because storage is cheaper than time these days. If I'm streaming I don't worry about it.
But it’s still great fun putting a well cared for record on a good quality turntable with a decent amp and speakers. I cannot believe the 3D sound stage from the best recordings from the 60s and 70s with high quality pressings from the likes of Decca, Phillips and DG.
I’ve a top quality lossless streamer with an excellent amp and speaker set up. MQA and Apple digital masters are amazing in accurate stereo placement but lack the depth coming from my AR deck from the mid 1970s. I refurbished it in lockdown to get it back to it’s designed US broadcast standard for wow and flutter, rumble etc. it is way better on those parameters than even top Rega, Project etc decks from today.
I rip in cd quality because that is what my CD'S expect me to do. I agree, storage is cheap, and I am not concerned about saving space, I want the music exactly as recorded. Happy listening!
There is no excuse for not offering lossless streaming in 2022. Bandwidth and storage are so cheap now, and Spotify should beware of bad press because “Netflix destiny” might catch up with it too.
I came here to write the same thing. FLAC FTW.
@@renr17 I know, that is why I say Spotify should not dismiss calls for lossless option, in spite of most of its customers not caring about it.
I just upgraded my Bifrost 2 to the new Bifrost 2/64 hardware-balanced analog card with four TI DAC8812 D/A converters. Very nice improvement.
I have some LS50's in a studio with a reference amplifier and to me they sound great. I have Focal SM9's which certainly sound more clear and flat as you'd expect, but the KEF's sound pleasant
I have owned many speakers in my time .... 50 years of listening. KEF LS50’s are the best I’ve heard. I listened to Beck’s “morning phase” first 3 tacks on a friend’s system then on mine. Night and day. On mine ... as if he/the music is in the room.
The shop I bought them from ... best in town very high end ... didn’t have them on demo in the store and I know why. They would have blown away most of what was on demo and they would have perhaps sold nothing else if they had them for a/b listening tests.
He had to go down to the basement for mine and didn’t say a word about them as he handed them over. He knew I knew.
What amp/DAC are you using on them?
What Amp the KEF LS50 Need for?
So I am seeing a lot of people in disagreement with this videos negative comment of the ls50s, and I am just another one.
In regards to the clarity and mid-range, this speaker compares to the Bowers and Wilkins 805 D4 ($4000+). So you are paying an additional $2500 to get that lower end. I had two subwoofers anyway, so boom! I have that lower end. But my brother and I instantly knew that these were the speakers to get after comparing over a dozen different high end bookshelf brands.
Now, to get a speaker like this means that you also need to get a top of the line receiver/amp and/or dac. It truly is important! Some components like the Denon will make it sound weak and with no Bass. It's happened to me. So it's always good to call the company to get their advice on what component to get. That's what I did. And now, anyone who comes to my room gives the "WOW" response when they listen to any kind of music. And my ls50s are the older version before the metas, and I was able to get $900 for the pair. That's a steal for what I have in my room. Ever so happy with my system!
I have used an Onix OA20 (great amp), Cambridge Audio CXA80, Sony FB940 (ironically one of my favourite amps) and Quad IIs all to no avail. It's not the just the lack of lower end it's just the very fussy placement and lack of depth/ soundstage
Hi, may I know what amplifier you are using for ls50?
Thanks😊
@@unclestephensgaka457 Hi, I currently have the Arcam 550 receiver. It has 90 W for seven speakers. It's currently discontinued, but you can always buy it used at trustworthy websites like Audiogon. That's actually where I got my receiver. A few years ago, a brand-new receiver would cost almost $4000. I got a-year-old receiver for $1500.
Also, you can always call KEF to see what other receivers they recommend for their speakers. That is so incredibly important when you decide to buy flagship speakers. Always talk to the source. And one thing I love about my receiver is that it has Dirac live. its just one big equalizer that you can modify. I cranked my ls50 frequencies of 40 - 80 Hz an additional 10 dB. That's when I was able to finally hear more bass. Hope this helps.
It’s a crazy hobby. Can be a lot of fun. Can be addicting. You gotta be careful - can get expensive quick! Chasing the perfect sound is very elusive. One day your system sounds perfect and the next day it doesn’t.
The quest, for some is the goal. For others they hit the 20:80 rule and pick a system that hits most of what they can live with at a more affordable price.
Until I found the KEF LSX
I got 6/6 on the NPR test by sticking my fingers in the RCA jacks. Mind you, my fingers are oxygen free and at least 4ga. However, I noticed a less airiness and openness by switching index and middle finger around. Maybe a phase issue. Going to try a toe and a thumb combination. Might try it upside down too to fix the phasing issue…
LOL! Great!!!
If you listen in a dome filled with pure oxygen that definitely helps
One thing about lossless or less compression is that with a good Dac every once in awhile I’ll hear things in songs I’ve never noticed or sometimes even heard before. When that happens to me it’s totally worth it. You can hear more separation between the instruments and the singers and even multiple background singers. I heard You can’t always get what you want - Rolling Stones ( I’ve heard that song 100 times) and the hair on my neck went up. I was hearing sounds and singers I had never heard bc before there was no separation. Sounded more smashed together if that makes sense. So I don’t care what people say. I want clear live sound like the band is in the room with me. And you won’t get that without better resolution and a good digital to analog converter. My 2 cents.
Good speakers buddy, VERY IMPORTANT.
One of my favourite videos of yours I have watched for a while. I found it really entertaining. Totally subjective (as is most audio stuff🤣) but well communicated and balanced opinion. 👍🎸🎼
I love the quality gold plate brings to fiber spdif cables. I can definitely hear the difference. And, yes I saw them for sale.
Re MP3; back in the days of napster, I already took a/b of mp3 vs. cd. on both speakers and headphones. On some tracks I could pick out the 192 kbps but the majority I could not. I could not tell any 320 kbps from CD. It was pure guessing. Since then I haven't been pursuaded one bit of the many promises of lossless. A/B tests are good at giving one a peace of mind! I recommend any enthusiast to make an effort to do more of self-testing (DACS/cables/amps/files/power conditioners etc.). If they did, the snake oil business would die out quickly and I will not miss it. But you need to be honest to yourself of-course.
old people don't hear it, If old people say it's good, don't buy it !
@@lucasrem Did you say P.S. Audio or did I read too much between the lines?
That’s definitely a you thing. On my system the difference is night and day.
@@jeremyhuntington1 I don't believe you are being honest to yourself. Maybe you are justifying your purchases.
I've done fair share of ABX testing of different formats. It is dependent on the track but most of the time I can tell apart a 320kbps mp3 from a lossless flac file. I find that generally OGG is much better than mp3 too.
MoFi scandal showed us that Analog being better quality is a hype. CD quality (16/44.1) is all human ears need. Recording quality is on the other hand is key
Have you seen the documentary 'Sound City'(2013)? There's something magical about that Neve recording console. Acoustics must have been insane too.
What happenned? I didn't know that
Agreed. Recording & Mastering make the most difference and MoFi has particular skill in the mastering department.
YES !
I own LS50 Metas and I disagree strongly with your opinion. But that's OK, because that's why they're opinions, and everybody is entitled to theirs. FWIW, I think the LS50 is much more transparent and honest to the recording than almost any other speaker at its price point. Moreover, it is capable of nearly holographic imaging that one typically has to spend a good deal more money to achieve with most other brands. In order to do this, though, they can't just be plopped down on some stands in whatever spots in your room. They're going to take some (often frustrating) trial and error with placement, and that's not everybody's cup of tea. As such, they are definitely "audiophile speakers" and aren't suited to everyone's tastes. They work great for mine and I'm incredibly happy with them.
You are right - they do not produce prodigous bass. For that matter, they don't really produce much of anything below 48Hz. That's a clear design decision. They're bookshelf speakers and physics are such that if you want more bass than that from a booksheld sized enclosure, you're going to have to make compromises in terms of the ability of the speaker to produce that bass clearly and without coloration. I subscribe very strongly to the notion that errors of omission are vastly preferable to errors of commission in music reproduction, such that I demand if a product I buy does something, it does it very well. If it tries to do something and does it poorly or is colored, it's not making it into my listening room. Again, different strokes for different folks applies here.
Finally, I think a lot of our difference in opinion comes down to our tastes in music. My system sees a lot of jazz and classical music, genres for which the LS50s are incredibly well-suited. Honestly, if a friend who was really into Metallica asked me for a speaker recommendation at the $1500 price point, I wouldn't point them toward the LS50s. That doesn't make them over-hyped, it just makes them different than some other speakers. The hype they have received is extremely well deserved because of the way that they excel at what they try to do.
We disagree about this, but I still love your channel, the project you've undertaken (high-value hi-fi) and really like your presentation and editing. Please keep it up - I'll keep watching!
In my room the LS50 also have a very good bass response.
I have a node at 42 Hz in my listening position that integrates very nicely with the frequency response of the LS50, to the point I had to remove the subwoofer in the stereo configuration. The sub is now used only for LFE in surround setup.
I think everything that you have said is right on the money! And everyone's comments disagrees with his opinion of the ls50s. I mean, nearly everyone!
I personally love my ls50s and I think it's my end game.
I can't comment on the LS50 personally. I'm just flustered that they get so much attention over other speakers. Because the internet makes it seem like the LS50 is king of the hill. It's a similar story with the Buchardt s400 at a higher tier. There are many instances where people aren't happy with the LS50 and that's a sign that they didn't listen to other speakers before making a purchase. I can't fault these unhappy buyers. Coverage of speakers under $2000 is lacking.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q I think that some of the people who dislike them are people that didn't have the right receiver when they heard the ls50's. I would have been one of them. I had a $500 Denon receiver and it sounded like crap. When I bought a receiver (Arcam 550) that a United States salesperson recommended, the ls50's was a night and day difference. And I am not exaggerating either. That's when it became reference speakers. At least, that is my story.
@@rafaelruiz-tagle358 This story really shows why it's dangerous to recommend the LS50 above all else based on performance metrics. One should consider every component in the chain and make an informed decision. You could pair Sonus Faber, Triangle or Focal speakers with a run of the mill Denon/Yamaha amp get a satisfying experience.
I think the LS50 is a speaker that works very well with a subwoofer or two. From personal experience I can say the amplifier does make a difference with these. When I hooked up my 100w mono blocs they absolutely came alive in comparison to my previous 50w integrated amp. I am a big believer in quality interconnects and when I have upgraded I have heard a noticeable improvement but don't waste your money on this unless you have a reasonably resolving system. I agree with the comment below that the quality of the mastering is a huge factor and the room you are listening in of course.
Yep! completely agree
In my uncle and aunt's divorce, they apparently fought over the Bose all in one system more than anything, including their children.
Marital stress can apparently cloud good judgment ;)
Ironically, they seem to deserve each other.
Your channel is great - you dont beat around the bush, and you talk very candidly and knowledgably about hifi. Probably helps save your viewers a lot of money. Most Audiophile channels almost have a "keeping up with Joneses" effect with high end speakers. But your channel reminds us that theres no shame having in a decent value budget system.
I never heard the LS50 Metas myself, I prefer a line source presentation although I do like their the single point source concept (their concentric design) - - but a strong point in their favor is that John Atkinson used them for his reference for quite a long time which is surprising in that I doubt John is particularly restrained in making personal speaker choices, but regardless, that says to me or should say to anyone for that matter that they're a worthy product.
Would love to see this as a series, this was excellent!
On compressed vs. lossless I did that experiment some 20 years ago. I used a brand new CD I ripped into 320kb/s MP3 and compared the two. That’s when I gave up ripping CDs to MP3. It was a clear deterioration of subtle sounds, specially in the high frequencies. Some sound effects were almost gone. Now consider a music setup made of source, amp and speakers. If you lose a little here (compressed music) a little in the source signal, a little in the amp and a little in the speakers, what do you get? A sum of loses on your audio experience.
Measurements tell the truth. So does blind A/B tests. Anyone can tell speakers apart. Amps are a bit harder. Dacs are much harder. To my ears, good giant box speakers sound the best (15" woofer 3-way).
I have 2 pairs of LS50s with Sprout 100 amps, wonderful pairing. Both setups are on my home and work desk, about 5 feet apart, sitting on my desks. It’s the only high end speaker I’ve really enjoyed listening to that close.
They are monitors 😉
I have Ares 2 and really enjoy it for the type of music I listen to. Sure it lacks some definition and dynamics but it’s good enough to keep me happy. You could do better but you’ll need to spend more. Unfortunately I am not willing to spend more.
I loved the low end response and the clarity and crispness of the planar tweeter on my Martin Logan Motion I5. The surround started to separate from age. I don't know about overhyped though... bose on the other hand... agreed.
Speaker cables: #10 all-copper lamp cord!
😁
Excellent video, mate! I think DACs are seriously overhyped. Over the years, I've tried a Gustard X20 Pro, Topping D90, Denafrips Pontus 2, Schiit Gungnir multibit, and several others. In all honesty, I really couldn't tell much difference between the $1700 Pontus 2 and $650 Topping D90. Of all those I mentioned, the Gustard sounded best to me. Sadly, it got crushed when I moved about 5 years ago. The one DAC I truly disliked was the Gungnir. Its sound was muffled and dull to my ears. One good thing about these DACs is their resale value. I sold all my DACs after using the FiiO K9 Pro ESS. It reminded me of my destroyed Gustard, so it's my end game DAC. I'm very pleased with my LS50 Metas. They're great as a nearfield setup for my PC audio rig. I drive them with a Crown XLS 2502, the K9 and SVS 3000 Micro sub. I'd like to get a different amp, though. The Crown is pretty good, but I prefer A/B amps. I ordered the new Burson Funk Max Current after watching Jay Iyagi's review.
I love the crown xls , can't beat em for the money.
I tried that test with "decent" headphones and was not able to tell the difference.
I tried that test on my main systems (as well as Tidal with Spotify using Heos to avoid app processing) and there were differences. The most obvious one was sound stage. With lossy it was kinda collapsed.
I never listened to LS50 (regular or Meta) in a small room, so can't say anything about base. But paired with sub, while a bit too bright, I think they are great in regard of clarity, transparency and imaging.
Maybe it is just my love to coaxial drivers (Tannoy, Fyne Audio, KEF), I ended up owning a pair of LS50 Meta - no regrets.
Hi Randy , I always listen to you on my mk1 sound link mini . I've had it for years and with a bit of EQ it's still great 😊👍
Rock on!
@@cheapaudioman the sound link mini is one of the most enjoyable things I've ever owned . It still holds it's charge after 8+ years . Love you channel 👍
Back in the late 80’s I was a poor college student in Champaign, IL. I hung around Glenn Poor’s Audio Video so much that Geoff Poor finally started paying me minimum wage to keep hanging around. So, we carried Nakamichi at that time and we did a simple test with their cassette decks. We played a CD through a decent player, simultaneously recording on the Nak. We then picked up the playback head on the Nak (just a moment after the recording head was laying down the track) so when we A/B’d the CD with the playback head it was almost synced. We let folks pick whatever music they wanted and played them through a good quality speakers (often Maggies). Almost no one went 5 out of 5 on guessing which source was which - this was with CASSETTES for pete’s sake. The vast majority got 2 or 3 correct. Could I tell a cassette vs. a CD player? Sure, more times than not. But if a manufacturer executes well, the differences are usually less obvious than all the reviews would indicate. My conclusion from all of this - read reviews for information; trust your ears for decisions. Whether any reviewer likes a certain piece of equipment will not change how it sounds to you. And have the confidence to call it the way you hear it. Good luck folks.
If old people say it's good, don't buy it !
I still have old 80 ish gear, why replace it.
Compact Cassette was always crap, CD, all you need is digital out, any player is good enough.
Just get a good overpriced ATMOS Amp/ Dac, keep the OLD speakers too!
@@lucasrem - My point was not that anyone should buy a cassette deck, or any vintage tech for that matter, today. Instead, the point is that well-designed and well-manufactured gear can sound really good and that most people’s preconceived notions about which technologies sound best are usually incorrect. It is true that cassettes all had some form of hiss, but they were not all crap. It is also probably true that any cd player was “good enough” but I am pretty sure we are not all striving for good enough - and there was and is definitely an audible difference.
I’m a fan of Chinese brand hi fi, mostly never over hyped ,you get what you pay for ,Denafrips , Kinki S, Holo Audio, Jays Audio ,SMSL, Topping , Aiyima, Lii Audio, Doge, Fiio, Boyurange, Willsenton ….too many to go thru. As I reside in China it’s even 15%-30% cheaper in most instances. It doesn’t get better than that.
I'm actually using the cheapest Wondom class T amp with my OGY and it sounds wonderful. If only the amp could output more than 10W! We should bring back class T. Boost the power.
Most Chinese hifi is garbage and I am chinese lol I tried most of them and I wanted to like them, chinese focus on measurements only … there is a reason why accuphase is still the best because they actually tune their equipment
@@davehao4486 I don’t agree , Stereophile , Steve Gutenberg and many other credible reviewers have given top marks to several Chinese gear. Also price is always a consideration, you cannot expect a US2k gear to perform at the same level as a US5k gear. If price is not an issue then even Accuphase is not in the realm of hi end hifi. I give credit to the Chinese because for the last 10 years they have made great strides esp with mid tier gear.
I disagree with you: I ended up with denon pma-1700ne amp and dac and has headphone amp all build in at 2000 usd, that sounded better than all these Chinese dac plus headphone combos plus it comes with a serious amp, so the mid tier Japanese options still beat the Chinese options, the Chinese got a long way to go and their entire strategy is to basically sell to new comers to headphone space who never heard of the regular brands and their strategy of flooding TH-cam with paid reviews helps lol and I suspect topping, smsl etc basically all the same company to create illusion of choice, it’s a good way to make money as a business, make a mediocre dac, pay off a ton of TH-camrs, go for specs instead of it sounding good… so it’s amazing on paper that’s it good business strategy
@@davehao4486 Well that’s a pretty tight budget and you are going for an all in one. TBH I’m not familiar with all in ones and I don’t use headphones. I’m using a Willsenton R800i class A tube SET amp with rolled tubes at US3.5k and a Denafrips Pontus 2 DAC with Iris DDC connected by I2S US2K. So I guess we are not talking about the same thing. I’m mostly talking about separates with a budget around US8k. That to me is mid fi
I did the test and came away with 50 percent. Some songs were easy to tell the difference and some songs not. Thanks for sharing the NPR link.
As a young man. I got stationed in Germany and the first thing I noticed was that everyone in the barracks had these amazing stereo systems. Marantz, Yamaha, Kenwood, Sansui, and a b u n c h of pioneer systems A couple had Phase Linear systems, and I fell in love with them. Many of those guys had these huge Bose 901 systems and at least half of them hated them. The complaint ran pretty much the same.
Guys would go to the stereo center at the local PX and the Bose reps would collar them quickly and hustle them into the Bose Listening Center. Yeah, it was all in capital letters. Those listening rooms were mathematically set up to make the 901s sound perfect. When guys got them back to the barracks and hooked up, they sounded mediocre at best. So yeah, I gotta go with the Bose hype. Kings of Mediocracy.
I sold my Ares2, The internal DAC on my Bluesound NODE was just too close to justify the Ares, and also the midrange and bass seemed to be a little more pronounced on the NODE, which I preferred sometimes. But, the curiosity got me and I ordered a Pontus2, which should be here in a couple days..LOL! Im convinced the ONLY reason they make the Ares is to get you to jump to the Pontus...
I did the same kinda. Went with Pontus. I am happy overall with it. A good gain helped a lot
I made this comment on the Denafrips Facebook group recently but it amazes me how many people move up the Denafrips line. I have an Ares II and I hope I never hear a Pontus. 😉
A good powerful preamp made a huge different with my Denafrips. I tried them with 2 preamps and just a potentiometer and no go. Pre90, now we cooking. Tube preamp is next. Wish I had tested other dacs with pre90
I did a blind test some time ago with someone else playing either a 320kbps track or a 24bit FLAC track (Dire Straits - On Every Street) on a DAW. I got most of them right and a headache at the end for focusing so much - mainly cymbals etc. I used 990s and a Steinberg audio interface (definitely not Orpheus for sure) I'll certainly give it another go one day, but afaic, I don't care and 320 is perfectly fine, it's also been around for what, two decades now, aaand it's digital, not some vhs degrading tape. m'out.
If old people say it's good, don't buy it !
Dire Straights, muhuhahahahaha, Sultans you need, swing.....perfect ???
Hey Randy thanks for the link to the listening test. I enjoyed it.👍
I took the npr test a while ago and I got maybe three correct but after spending quite a bit of time listening to music in different formats on several setups I was able to consistently get 5 or 6 correct on several of these quizzes.
I think the quick a/b testing format can sometimes give a false sense of objectivity. I’d had it’s merits but sometimes living with a piece of gear or file format for an extended period of helps bring out its nuances and exposes its deficiencies.
When it comes to lossless: I used to listen to mp3 at 320kbps. While it sounded great, I used to have ear fatigue after about one hour. Coincidentally, I've switched to CD format (16-44.1) on the same player, same ear-buds, and same exact music . I can't hear any difference; however, the ear fatigue is gone! I can now listen for hours. So, while I understand that people can't hear a difference, nobody will convince me that that difference does not exist!
I argue it like this. Most people who are used to 60 hz monitors can't tell a difference if they are suddenly on 144hz or 240 hz. But for those of us who have used 144 hz now for many many years, going back actually hurts my eyes. A person can notice differences once they are trained to pick them up. It is like language or sports or gaming, someone not trained in the language, game or sport will be looking in the wrong places and won't pick up on the nuances. Although I think people at any level can get the same enjoyment, there is a difference. Whether the difference is meaningful or worth it is the true argument. A lot of the "audiophile" world is BS and a lot of the real things aren't worth the money but there is absolutely a difference when a person has only ever listened to lossless formats.
Bose, JBL, Sony and Apple (believe it or not lol) brought me to look for HiFi. The only good sounding thing I ever had at one point were the apple EarPods and I went down a rabbit hole after that lol
Got the Bose OEs for Christmas in 2010 and I was flabbergasted at how good they sounded. So much that I wanted to see what other people thought. Found a forum called Headfi and bunch of people shitting on Bose saying they sound like trash. I thought if this is trash than what's good? Sold my OEs and got a pair of D2000s and it was like hearing God. I've been chasing that feeling for the past 12 years.
I really appreciate your honesty in this review. Thank you!
I kind of agree regarding the ELAC original debut series., Especially when it comes to home theater. I had the C-5 center channel and I struggled to hear dialogue. However, they are actually pretty good for music and I still use the B5’s on my desktop set up occasionally.
I picked two lossless tracks on the two I spent the most time with Neil Young and the classical piece. Three 320kps picks (going back and forth between the wav and 320) and actually the 128kps on the Coldplay, but man that Coldplay track is a nasty compressed (the other kind of compressed) garbage example of modern mastering, I thought they all sounded pretty awful so I was pretty checked out.
A bunch of reviewers & Patreon communities should get together to set up the ultimate in blind ABX cable testing.
Test everything and put everyone from CEOs, reviewers, equipment enthusiasts, musicians & muggles off the street.
Tell me I'm wrong because from where I'm sitting it looks like the one test no manufacturer will dare perform.
That is cause the house of cards would fall down. Outrageous claims require proof. They have none.
The subject of double-blind tests for stereo systems, cables, components, tweaks, and power conditioners has been discussed and argued over ad infinitum for years, mostly by newbies or worse, people who know just enough to think they know what they’re talking about. But I’ll assume your question is sincere so I’ll take the time to reply.
First of all, an argument can be made that the people involved in the test need trained ears. Let me explain. Most people who are new audio are immediately impressed by the “wow factor”, that “hi-fi” sound in which everything is hyper detailed and exaggerated. You can hear a pin drop or the sound of a breath or the separation between each string. But what they aren’t listening for is musicality. What they’re hearing in such a system is coloration, which can be very enticing at first but gets really old and fatiguing after a while. What more experienced audiophiles will listen for is if something sounds musically and emotionally engaging, something akin to a real musical experience.
Another problem with double-blind tests for stereo systems is that there are so many things going on in a piece of music that it’s impossible to keep track and remember of everything - attack, decay, dynamics, micro-dynamics, soundstage, and at least a dozen other criteria. To get a good sense of what you’re hearing, you’ll probably want to listen for at least an hour. Our audio memory is very short so when you then interchange cables or components, it can be difficult to near impossible to recall exactly what you heard.
A third problem is translating a double-blind test into something that’s useable for you. Let’s say a group of trained listeners do a test comparing an Audience frontRow power Chord against a stock power cord using commensurate high-end components, speakers, cables, platforms, power conditioning, and room treatments. I guarantee you that every listener will prefer the Audience. But what I can’t guarantee is whether or not you’ll hear any improvement on mid-end Denon or Yamaha receiver, disregarding the fact that it would be a ridiculous area to upgrade in such a system. But you get my point. There are so many variables in a system that it’s near impossible to generalize what one piece of gear will sound like in every system. What sounds good in one system may actually sound worse in another.
BUT INSTEAD OF INQUIRING ABOUT DOUBLE-BLIND TESTS, MY QUESTION IS THIS: Why not simply listen for yourself and decide with your own ears if you hear a significant improvement or not? I own a modified Cary CAD-300SEI with NOS tubes. On paper, the amp sucks and there are plenty of cheap amps that blow it out of the water with much better specs. So why did I buy it? Go listen to a good 300B SET amp and you’ll know for yourself. This isn’t rocket science. I bought a pair of Ultimate interconnects by High Fidelity Cables because of how it sounded in my system, not because of all the scientific gobbledygook surrounding how it works. It totally transformed my system for the better and I don’t need validation from a test to know what I’m hearing.
If you don’t trust your own ears and your own judgement, go with a friend to a stereo shop and ask the dealer to assist you in setting up one or more systems to audition if you think your friend will help you make an informed buying decision. I don’t know where you live but my favorite audio shop in the Northwest is The Audio Connection in Seattle. The owner is honest and very knowledgeable. He’ll ask about your listening room and your budget, then set something up for you to listen to without telling you what you should hear.
@@LorenzoNW Good points but trying out expensive cables in the first place is next to impossible for most people outside the industry, so testing has its place and that being the case it may as well be blind.
Maybe the bigger problem is the way the industry mostly fails to present the whats, whens, hows & whys in regards to the pros & cons of their own products. When cables can cost more than some people earn in a year I think firms have a responsibility to explain (very publicly) to anyone who's interested why they're so damn good and be more forthcoming about advising how to match products to applications, rather than leave all that hard work for a clueless consumer to figure out. It's the air of mystery promoted by the brands that causes half the problems.
@@anonimushbosh What you’re asking for sounds good but the devil’s in the details. There are an infinite number of variables that can result in a cable, component, power conditioner, or tweak either working or not working in your own stereo system. I’m a bit spoiled because I do live in a city that has at least one stereo shop run by an honest and knowledgeable owner. Two things I’ve learned about audio companies over the years - no one has an ugly baby and everyone’s product is “the best”. 🤣
Regarding cables and tweaks, The Cable Company has a lending library where you can borrow products to try them out. The people there are fairly knowledgeable about products they sell. And there are audio manufacturers that offer a satisfaction guarantee trial period. For instance, I wanted a better headphone cable for my 800S and had a good feeling about the ToneKraft cable from Audio Envy but what prompted me to try it was their 45-day trial period. It turned out to be an amazing cable after 200 hours of burn-in.
A good rule of thumb when purchasing cables is to buy what’s commensurate with your components. I’m a big fan of Audience cables because I like their house sound signature and build quality. So I called and spoke with both John McDonald (president/CEO) and Joe Flatt (customer service manager). And I was given recommendations as to what particular power cords would be the best match for my CD player and integrated amplifier. Having that personal connection with someone honest and knowledgeable is far more valuable than double-blind tests with systems and room acoustics that most likely don’t match my own.
Back in the 90’s I had two different cars with Bose systems. A maxima and a Ford Explorer (Eddie Bower addition), both systems sounded impeccable playing everything from the dead, Alice In Chains, nirvana, and Credence to mob deep, bob Marley,Wu-tang, and tribe called quest. Very balanced with a great soundstage. You felt the music and noticed instrumental or vocal details not heard on other systems. That could be because most people had 27 12 inch subs stowed in every open space.
I think Bose was a quality product at a ridiculous price but they led the way in wireless so in a sense, they were ahead of their time but they were really selling themselves everywhere.
I agree about the Bose statement. Another very interesting fact about them is they invented a suspension system for cars that eliminated bumps while going over humps. Look it up!
A point that needs to be be made about the KEF LS50 speakers - some folks have very different listening rooms. As in, the building construction is mostly concrete/brick/masonry - and this has a HUGE effect on the bass response, in the room.
At the end of the day they’re just not that good. At least based on how much they’re pushed. They’re good compared to speakers costing $300-500, but that’s where it ends. They’re super sharp and fatiguing. When you talk about bass, they’re good in a bedroom. Beyond a 10x15 they’re pretty weak unless you have a subwoofer.
I will say, amazing for watching TV as the treble is perfect for voices
Bose also cannot be easily dismissed in professional audio . They have a very good line of pro audio products for large venue sound systems - in that world they do offer full range and frequency specs on the boxes and all the rest. Heard some awesome concert hall/arena systems over the years from Bose.
Yes Randy I agree with you on worlds best cables I have them on the whole system now! great video!
Thanks! 👍
Wow, Randy... one of the best video's I have seen in a while. What a fantastic topic. I love it.
Since I've been a music enthusiast and audiophile, I've changed and re-listened to a lot of speakers, and I can say with certainty that the KEF LS50s were among the ones that stuck out in my memory as one of the best. Since I'm not exactly an amateur, I'll list some speakers that I've personally owned: Dynaudio, Anthony Gallo, Audio Physic, Dali, Quad, Magnepan, Proac, Linn... I currently own a pair of small Dali Menuets, but I still regret selling the LS50 which I sold mainly because I thought they were not suitable for my space. I will probably get them at the first opportunity, in Germany they are just now available new (non META) for 599 EUR, which is a fantastic price.
Same here! Coz maybe I dont sitdown to listen rock and disco which in anyway they are not good at,at all.When I sitdown, I only listen to jazz, vocals,instrumental and acoustic music. I only listen rock and disco in my car while Im driving. That means, if you like rock, disco and something like that, you will tend to like V or U shaped sound, and if you like jazz, vocals, and again something like that, you will like the ls50’s. I dunno if that make sense?
@@haroldbriones7041 I agree. I mostly listen to classical music and the LS50s are great for that.
I thought my own diy bookshelf that had 1.5k in parts would blow away the kef ls 50 with it's small driver. Thought the scan speak tweeter would be clearer, and that my premium cross over parts would destroy the kef. I was sadly mistaken. The kef has it in clarity and top end but lacks everything below a certain point. Also I found the tweeter a bit metallic in areas depending on what you play but for the price its quite impressive. Would have loved to compare it on something other than a class d denon av receiver. I bet there would be more of a difference but for the average components, and price it showed that it can compete.
I have a pair of the non-meta black edition. I was very happy with them in my relatively small study, but then added a sub, and boy, do they suddenly open up and sound fantastic. They don't "need" a sub but are so much better with one.
They also have a reputation of being hard to drive, but my PrimaLuna drives them absolutely fine with 38Watts of tubey goodness.
I agree with everything you said. I was always interested in the Anthony Gallo's. How were those speakers compared to the ls50s?
agreed re: heavy duty cables. i had to replace some rca inputs on a preamp b/c the cables i was using were so rigid and the male rca connector was so tight... i couldn't get them off without destroying the input. i spend a bit more on cables... but nothing crazy.
The power cord seems to be heavy in general however speaker cable doesn't have to be that thick! Thickness does not mean it sounds better than a thinner cable as I found out.
In regards to Bose I’ve actually heard a number of their sound systems and to be quite honest I think they’re quite alright especially when they can be so compact. In fact i have a pair of Bose Companion 50s hooked up to my PC and have done for like 7 years and they sound great. The only problem is that the small stands they’re on can’t be removed unless you start taking the front shroud of the speaker off and disconnect the speaker itself.
But I don’t see myself replacing them any time soon and I’ll probably Be using them until they break or something.
I agree with you about the NPR test.. On a high end system you would more likely notice the difference. If you are listening on an entry level system you may not notice as much with a few exceptions. (I LOVE the old Polk Monitor 7 series)
CAM, perhaps your best video that I have heard in summarizing some of the absurd fallacies many "audiophiles" proclaim on a constant basis. My background is in electronics technologies and engineering. Two quality amps will sound virtually identical regardless whether you paid $500 or $5000 although placebo effect can fool someone into thinking the 5K model sounds much better. A solid blind large sample A/B testing proves this. Suggestion to anyone who wants to get serious about the quality of all audio equipment is to: 1. Learn the limits of human hearing. 2.Learn ohm's law. 3. Learn capacitive and inductive reactance. Really understand terms such as frequency, distortion, waveforms, and db relationships come to mind. These are actually easy to learn and will save you from buying REALLY STUPID items like expensive power cords!!! If your piece of equipment actually needs a power cord upgrade, you have a real piece of junk equipment on your hand. I could go on and on but I'll leave it at that.
Sound is definitely in the ear of the beholder. I personally think the LS 50 Metas are one of the best speakers I have listened to. Also my Audio Technica ATH-MSR7BK headphones ($200.00) rival my DCA Aeon 2 Noires at a quarter of the price. I would recommend the Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2 to anyone looking for a great sound bar replacement in a budget 3.1 (with matching center) system. I would still have them had I not upgraded to a set of Focal Aria's for thousands more. Demo at home what your interested in as most online resellers have good return policies. Believe your ears, not good/bad hype...
I have the older version of the ls50s, and I absolutely love them. I would love to hear what the metas can do. They must sound awesome!
Ok i can officially say this: you are out of your mind with the Ls50 Meta. I got a pair in today and they are spectacular. I think they just didn't like your running gear. For reference, i also own the 1TDX Superior, which you reviewed and loved, the Emotiva T zero which you reviewed and loved, the Micca RB42 which you reviewed and loved. And a bunch of other speakers. Scratching my head on your comments, they are simply fabulous. Pair of RSL Speedwoofer 10s 3 feet off the ground, near field, perfectly tuned. Its glorious. Orchard Audio Starkrimson GaN monoblocks with the GaN power supplies, Gustard X26 Pro dac, Topping Pre 90, Schiit Lokius.
If you are ripping CDs to your computer, the only reason to use a compression codec like MP3 are AAC and lossless is because of a lack of hard drive space. But things have changed hard drives have gotten a lot cheaper high-capacity hard drives are very affordable. I have 4000 albums all ripped as uncompressed AIFF it only takes up 2.10 TB.
@@elonmuskrat2830 You must have only read half of my comment. Your reply seemed to be fueled by a jealousy of my having 4000 albums. You missed the part about high-capacity hard drives being affordable. You think I would have only one copy? Oh no you don't poopy pants! I have multiple copies. When I rip a new CD, it goes to no less than six hard drives. Two SSD hard drives in the computer and another portable SSD. And three HDD NAS hard drives kept in a fire rated box kept inside a fire rated safe. I still have all the CDs. Even something as bad as a fire all your vinyl and CDs are just going to end up as a smoldering pile of melted plastic hopefully my music would survive. I go to that extent because in the past I have lost everything in a fire, and it sucks big time.
The KEF LS50 / Meta has a very particular sonic fingerprint that I can pick out from a blind test. It has to do with their particular implementation of the concentric drivers. Nestling a tweeter in a deep cone creates a perceivable horn effect. Preference is always a personal choice, but I find that sound highly unnatural. That might explain why you are seeing many in the used market.
By contrast, the ELAC Uni-fi 2.0 implementation doesn’t create that effect at all.
agree 1000%
ELACs seem quietly brilliant. I see people complain about Klipsch, Monitor Audio and others, but rarely ELAC.
May give Elac a try
Its just a wave guide. Placing the tweeter in center of woofers voice coil just eliminates phase and timing problems that other speakers have to contend with. There is no "effect" going on, so if you don't care for how it sounds its for other reasons.
The LS50/Meta is a very midcentric speaker and that is probably the cause why some love it so much and some hate it. I had the OG LS50 and didnt like them (too bright) but when I heard the Metas I loved them. Go figure.
I have the Meta's and I love the sound stage. Don't play loud. Use an active sub because bass is clearly not present. Most important things about speakers for me is correct phase. I always have problems with 3 way speakers because they have a moving sound stage. These KEF's do this right. Furthermore you don't have to sit exactly in the middle, so I can lie down and listen.
if you listen to stereo music in matrix surround, you can hear the difference between linear and compressed in a few notes, the surround channels will generally sound "swishy" in the trebles.
I think this is what is known as Horses For Courses. Regarding, the KEF LS50 Meta - the bass response I have is nothing short of astounding for such a small driver. Friends keep looking for the sub. Now, granted, it's being driven by a Krell Integrated at 150 Watts, so some OOMPH is to be expeceted. However, I also have an Ayon Spirit, which has 30 Watts in triode mode, and AGAIN, the bass response is remarkable. I think it goes to show that in audio - two things matter the most: system matching AND listening room.
I have four sets of Bose all of which are over forty years old and still perform fantastic. Most audiophiles are a little snobby and look down on any company that enables the general public own and enjoy their equipment with out putting another mortgage on their home!
I was shocked how good the ls50 meta sounded, I was expecting clean sound but not much bass as they’re so small, the bass was great!
Compared them to some Dali’s at a higher price point and the ls50 had a great sound stage and vanished in the room.
Interesting to hear another opinion.
what source you use, If old people say it's good, don't buy it !
@@lucasrem Tidal/MQA
I own the Elac Unifi Reference and my roommate has the Kef LS50 Metas. The Metas are better hands down, imaging and sound stage. Overall it's a better speaker in my opinion.
@@boquan Yep the Metas are the real deal... I know its subjective and cheapaudio man makes good points about bass but come on, look at the size of the speakers, they weren't meant to really have any significant bass. I disagree the LS50s are overhyped, I think people who buy the LS50s think they are done and they don't pair them up with decent gear.
I have secondhand LS50 Black edition mk1, I use them near field on my desk with an 80's Musical Fidelity A1 class A amplifier.. I have the Bungs in the LS50s and an MJ Acoustic Pro 50 make subwoofer to fill in the bass. Getting a second subwoofer fixed and will have stereo subs. It sounds fantastic speakers are less than a metre from my ears.
The older Musical fidelity gear is magnificent but so hard to find deals on the used market. I would think any of their gear with some grunt would make the ls50's sound great
@@braddunn2410 if I see any 👍
Thank you for the NPR link. Got two wav, two 320k, two 128k using my Focal studio headphones. And I rip music from this system... so I'm changing up how I encode. I'll still save FLAC just because but I actually long believed the crowd that says there isn't enough difference to matter.
LS50 ,could not get reference sound for 2 years. Added Pre90 and Pontus2. Now they sound great, best I heard in my space. I heard them first in the store and they sounded amazing, good bass, dynamics, non fatiguing, great sound stage. Almost sold them till I got the Pre90. Now I think I am going to keep them, unless I can get more of the same but even more. My guests say they sound like being live with the music.
Having the right components makes all the difference in the world! I love my ls50s!
@@rafaelruiz-tagle358 I really wanted to like them but they are the most disappointing speakers I've ever had- tried them in four different rooms and set-ups- have 2 pairs of vintage KEFS (1960's) that rock, ESL57s, various Cambridge Audio, B & W high and low end- all are superior to my ears
@@keiththompson9446 Sorry to hear that, bro. That really sucks. Do you have a receiver or amplifier that has a toroidal transformer in it?
@@rafaelruiz-tagle358 That's the bummer with LS50, they sound great with capable amp and those are 3x the price of LS50. For a room up to 15m2, one of the best choices out there. All of the attributes described by cheapaudioman (no bas, bad sounding) confirms amp was not on point.
What exactly do people mean by reference.
Wrapped up pair of 1988 Bose 901 Series VI speakers in my garage - summer of Freshman year of college - with the flute stands.
Thanks for the mention Randy!
As for cables, a good 14 gauge OFC is fine for speaker cables. As for interconnects, I like Audioquest ones in the $50 range
Yup. Ohm's law. And knowing about complex numbers (inductance, capacitance).
The main difference after that is how well the connectors are made, fit, and are connected to the cables.
As far as cables go, as long as it's shielded, I'm happy. Monoprice is my go-to.
I feel like the one about high-res audio is kinda speaker specific. With my headphones I can hear the diffrence almost all of the time but with speakers way less, probably because you hear way more of the room and enviroment your listening in.
It does also depend on the music a lot. I find that the examples given on the webside are not all that good. If your only listening to one vocal or simple pop- or hiphop-music, there is not much information that could get lost in compression. In other songs, I like Jacob Collier for instance, I feel the diffrences are way more prominent.
That beeing said, you can obviosly always enjoy your music in any format and on any gear, if you just like the music.
Always love your videos, thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I remember doing this listening test a couple of years ago, just with my B&W P5 on my laptop. I didn't make any consistent choice with multiple retries. Today, after a hifi journey, pluggged in my Shure aonic5's, got 3 right spotting the differences, then plugged in my Dragonfly Cobalt and got 6/6.The classical piece and Neil Young however was very hard, bit of a gamble between 320 and lossless. Does that quality matter? Hardly I'd say. Depends on how you like to listen to the music, and apparently your hifi gear - which I would not have believed when I first did that test.
I dont know, I got the ls50 metas and couldnt be happier, but i have 'em paired with a sub and amp from lyngdorf, which has room correction and sub integration baked in.
And about Bose, it's basically what got me into the hobby. A soundlink mini, a rinky dink Bluetooth speaker, which if you place juuuuust right in a corner you got some decent bass out of it
I also have my ls50s with a dirac room correction. It's fun to play with the equalizer, and it makes a world of difference, especially with the bass.
Cables can make a difference, i've heard it in both speaker cables and interconnects, but spending thousands is ridiculous. I'm talking going from like a 16 ga. wire to a beefy 12 ga you can hear a little more presence. It just makes sense if the cable can more easily carry the current, more of the signal is going to make it from the source to the speaker.
My dad still has that same little Bose CD/Radio sitting on a table in his house... with one CD sitting beside it... that he bought from a lounge singer on a cruise ship... for real.
I put my Sen’s 650’s on my Xduoo 604 Tube Amp ..and it’s definitely improved in overall performance 😋
Not for all genres of music..but it’s more smooth and detailed.
Great video Randy ☕️☕️
Take care 👍
Finally. An audio voice that agrees with my take on Bose. From the days of the 901 they used science to modify the sound to something that many "non audiophiles" could enjoy and hear the difference, sparking more interest in what would come next. 100% agreed!!! Cables? Snake oil. Any quality cable is as good, FOR ME, als any insanely priced cable. I have done some A/B testing and at my insanely old ass ears, I cannot tell a gnats ass worth of difference. I'm not talking about the piss ant cables you get free with a cheap piece of gear...those, you just throw away. I've had good luck with audioquest cables. They aren't cheap, but they aren't trash either. For what some of these speaker/interconnect and especially power cables.... I could buy a really nice piece of gear...there's a rich sucker born every minute.
Yes, I did try the 901 way back kept them for one week, and send them back to the dealer sound was horrible to my ears.
Sorry to burst your bubble (not really) but one point often made in favor of Bose is their research. Indeed, Bose has a large and highly-trained scientific research staff. However, it seems that relatively little of this research filters down to their everyday speakers. Their basic speaker designs have remained largely unchanged for many years. In the case of Bose, the research budget is still tiny compared to the marketing budget. But the research makes good PR, and in fact justifies one of their well known marketing slogans - “Better Sound Through Research.”
Now we turn to Bose’s 301/501/701/901 line. In this line, everyone agrees that Bose speakers employ a highly unusual design. Depending on your point of view, you may say that this design is unusual because it is innovative and patented, or you may say that it is unusual because few others care to duplicate it. Regardless, there are few other speakers with similar designs, and certainly none with anything like the high profile of Bose speakers.
One aspect to this series is the “direct/reflecting” design. In other words, these speakers have numerous speaker elements, some angled forwards, and some angled backwards, and some angled to the side. In most speakers, there are only two or three speaker elements, all pointed straight forward. The Bose philosophy is to create a great deal of indirect sound - sound that reflects off walls and furniture before it reaches the listener. Of course, all speakers inevitably create some degree of indirect sound, unless listened to in a specially treated non-reflective room, but Bose purposely creates a great deal more indirect sound. Some people feel that this strategy results in an unfocused diffuse sound, with unnaturally large stereo images, while others very much like this sound.
To justify the direct/reflecting technique, Bose has claimed that, in real life, about 8/9 of sound reflects before reaching the listener, and only 1/9 reaches the listener directly. However, these numbers apparently come from one set of measurements made in a concert hall, certainly an unusually reverberant environment. Furthermore, the recording picks up both the direct and reflected sounds, and adding more reflection at playback just adds synthetic reflections on top of real reflections. In fact, according to the scientists on the audio newsgroups, there are some well-established theories about the proper ratio of direct to reflected sound in playback - based on many years of research rather than one perhaps misleading measurement - which theories Bose speakers intentionally violate.
Another aspect to the Bose 301/501/701/901 series is their use of multiple small speaker elements for reproducing bass. While most speakers use just one large high-quality expensive element for the bass frequencies, Bose speakers such as the 901s use many smaller lower-quality less-expensive speaker elements, wired together with complex equalization circuitry. While this certainly produces bass, many people feel that the deep bass is attenuated, and that whatever bass there is contains large amounts of distortion. Others apparently believe the bass is deep and of high-quality. Whichever way your opinions run, it should be noted that there are well-established theories about the size of the driver versus its lower frequency limit - the bigger the driver the lower the frequencies it can naturally reproduce - which Bose violates, or at least tries to circumvent in a highly debatable fashion. More specifically, John Busenitz says: “When judging low frequency response, it is not only the total surface area that is important, but the excursion capability of the drivers and their resonance frequency, which determines the low frequency cutoff. Smaller drivers almost always have far less excursion capability and higher resonances than larger drivers. That is why Bose is pretty much alone in using multiple small drivers.”
If your other components are commensurate with your speakers, I can easily understand why you don't hear any differences between cables. I would also think high-end cables are snake oil and the placebo effect if I was listening through your stereo. In conclusion, for someone who's bought into the Bose 901 hype and accuses people who buy expensive cables of being rich suckers, you're a perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black. 🤣
I never had a problem with Bose. I think they not only make great stuff but their products generally sound quite excellent in my opinion. What they did is simplify the experience by creating a lot of user-friendly products which brought in more people into the hobby, of which many would have avoided it due to the potential complexities of the hobby itself, that can quickly become overwhelming in a hurry.
Bose still remains a very influential brand for that reason.
To be fair, Bose’s bad reputation is both justified and unjustified. I used to sell Bose many years ago at Circuit City. I didn’t find them any better or worse than JBL and Infinity - all mediocre big box store speakers. And they were far better than Cerwin Vega speakers. Bose is a particularly easy target because at its core, it’s a brilliant marketing company, invests a lot of money in advertising so it's well known, and they're highly litigious so it’s unlikely you’ll read any bad reviews.
Bose earned a bad reputation by building their speakers out of cheap everything. Then came the $399 clock radio (and let's face it, that is exactly what it is), that they still peddle today to people who don't know any better. I do agree that they do make some nice products and their success has always been in the marketing budget.
@@FelixtheMetalcat Even going as far back as the 901, Bose used many small, low-quality cheap speaker elements wired together with complex equalization circuitry, resulting in large amounts of distortion. But some people are convinced that's what real bass actually sounds like.
Hahaaa, yup. I was never a fan of the ultra expensive 901s either nor could I hear much bass.
@@FelixtheMetalcat I just looked up the price. They appear to be selling for $400 - $900 for the pair, equalizer included, which is pretty cheap. Not clear why you consider that expensive.
Just took the NPR test at my desk with my current setup. Macbook Air (no external DAC) to Hafler 101 DIY to Presonus Eris8 XT. Got 5/6. The JayZ tracks all sounded the same to me, and I actually chose the 128. I can't imagine getting these wrong with even mediocre headphones. Maybe if I had spent $1000 on my 3.5>RCA I would have selected the correct JayZ track. :)
In the 70’s I had Bose 501’s. They sounded pretty good to a 16 year old kid who save up for months to buy them. I wish I could have afforded the 901’s. They were the the top dog back then.
The KEF LS50s really get beat up on this channel lol. I think those speakers are nice if what you value most is high resolution, particularly in a desktop/nearfield setup. It's true they don't have much bass, so if you want that full range sound you either have to go with something else or add a sub. I think there are a lot of disgruntled people because of how expensive they are/were. But in 2012 when they came out, I don't know if there was a bookshelf speaker that had higher resolution at that price. We've got more options now in 2022 for sure.
I noticed at the majority of the people are arguing with this comment about the ls50s. I don't see anybody agreeing with him and that department. I love my ls50s, and I think the majority wins over one guy's opinion.
@@rafaelruiz-tagle358 It's not about winning. It's about finding what works best for you. His complaint about the LS50's not being a particularly full sounding speaker is true. But some people maybe prefer a more open sounding signature and don't care about bass quantity as much.
I love my ls50 meta, they are the best speakers I have ever owned. I think many people criticize them because, financially they are just outside of their reach. In their opinion, it is too much money for their size.
@@ivanbogdaue I never tried the KEF LS50. I would like to someday. But they're 1200€. And there's so much competition under 2000€ with French/Polish/British boutique manufacturers which build everything by hand. And you can get more efficient speakers as well and not worry as much with amplification.
@@ivanbogdaue Agreed.
Totally agree re the KEF LS50 Metas. I thought they sounded average at best. Sent them back after struggling with them for a few weeks trying to persuade myself that I must be missing something given al the rave reviews online. Love your channel dude!
They sound fantastic with a good well designed Amplifier. They are not a budget speaker and if sold through another brand would cost 3 times as much. Most amplifiers are junk and simply not fit for purpose.
I don’t regret buying them at all. It’s why it’s so important to listen yourself and pick what you like. They ticked all the right boxes for me.
This is great bro! Love the topic!
My BIL had a pair of Bose 901's which he hung on chains from the ceiling. He found delight in the fact that they would start to swing during heavy bass passages. I didn't have the heart to tell him that the bass was suffering badly as a result. He swapped them for large Cabasse floorstanders, so maybe high fidelity wasn't high on his list of audio priorities....
Crediting Bose with bringing in audiophiles is like crediting Miller Lite with bringing in craft beer aficionados.
totally get that. everyone's first beer is a craft beer. no one ever drinks a domestic beer before they go in and order a nice porter. great point.
Don't forget, tastes great, less filling.
@@cheapaudioman My point is, they grab something cheap and popular. Bose is (relatively) cheap and popular. They are the Subway of audio. I don't think they deserve special kudos.
I've owned a lot of Bose equipment and while there are better out there they do sound good when set up properly.
As someone who loves listen to music, an a electronic technician with 40 years of experience, I like good cables, but as you said, there's no magic cables, as long as long as they're good quality, and relatively decent diameter, interconnect cables are the ones who make a difference, but I don't believe a 2k cable will be better than a good 30/40$ cable.
Jamo CS 91 ii, Sony SCSS5, or the new Elac BS41? Anyone have any opinions? I just picked up the Jamo's and I LOVE them. However, I love listening to the Sony's too...just fatiguing after a bit. Thinking of checking out the BS41s. Any opinions/comparisons for those who have a minute? thanks
Context. Cables, lossless audio, like Randy said, audible differences depends on the revealing level of the chain you are using. On a cheap built in dac of a bluetooth headphone, my entire family cant tell the difference. On the hifi rig with very resolving gear even my old man with concert beat up ears he can tell the difference between lossless and mp3/spotify. That being said, if your not listening to music with intent, in a stereo imaging sweet spot, then dont worry about what type of format, then its all good. Another cool video Randy! Love it.
Oh Randy you’re so wrong about lossless audio. I took that test using my iPhone speakerphone as the source and I got 11/10 correct. Maybe the reason you can’t tell the difference is because you’re using the stock power cables with your system. I’m going back to getting my audio advice from Best Buy reviews.
coming in hot, Eric! I love it. Lots of reviews on there to help you out.
11 out of 10...excellent!
For those of you not legally awake yet, this was a joke comment... and a funny one at that !
I was wondering what you think a great speaker pairing for the NAD C700 would be? I've been looking at ELAC (seen all of your videos on those).
Took the NPR test.
Got em all right. Wasn't even using my best headphones. Just my Bluetooth ones. ✌️
Just have to focus on the higher or lower frequency extension.
Don't know how to explain it, it's like I can hear an extra layer of shimmer on higher frequencies with lossless. And lower frequencies have more "oomphf".
Although, to be fair, I used to work as an audio engineer back in the day.
I just listen to music
B.O.S.E. best overpriced speakers ever🙄
No highs, no lows, must be Bose.
thank you for this video btw, i will justify my Hi-FI choices here, it will boost engagement.
I have a pair of LS50 currently on my desk and honestly, they lack bass a lot (especially since i had to close de ports because of their placement right against a wall) and they are indeed very forward. But i actually found a quality out of them, and it's using them as studio monitors. I produce and mix a lot of music, it's my main current activity, and i've had 3 different pairs of dedicated Studio Monitors in the past and i've never been happy with any of them. The LS50 have that clarity and speed we're looking for when producing and they, being audiophiles speakers, are more transparent that a lot of dedicated monitors.
I am running my KEF out of a NAIM amp and preamp, (and i'm using a studio grade "Exciter" to slightly boost the frequencies below 50Hz when casually listening to music at my desk) and to answer, if i find NAIM to be too expensive ? i don't know, i bought my naim preamp used and the power amp i literally got it for free from someone on facebook.
BTW, I'd love to see Randy start reviewing more headphones/headsets and then to start seeing recommendations on best headphones for the money in his video descriptions. His opinion is one I trust.
Regarding cables … I agree interconnects can make a difference but even still, over the decades of moderately ridiculous spending on cables, the only “significant” improvement ever came back when I replaced a cheap NAD supplied interconnect that came with the CD player. Since then there’s been a lot of wasted cash.