These upgrade videos are interesting, not because I have any if these speakers, but because, I can see the issues with the speakers. Pushing a mid or mid)bass driver too high to reach the H.F. unit allowing breakup modes into the passband is a common issue across speaker companies. Thx. Keep 'em coming.
So the price points on the KEF UNI-Q series basically determine the quality of x-over your gonna get. Same driver essentially though the model line. Im starting to see the pattern now with these big brands, and I appreciate how Danny lays it all out for us in an understandable way. Im becoming more and more convinced DIY is the way to go as more big name speakers pass through the GR research shop!
The problem is todays " cheap" speakers take alot of filtering to get them to sound good, the 70's and 80's stuff usually had japan or usa, good qaulity drivers and real wood boxes, easier to dial in with tone controls
If ur not knowledgable, run!!! Amir, erin, audiphonics are the choice, u won't get the truth here. Danny is a true logic and physics ignoring audiophile😂
It would be great if you could tell a bit more of the sound Improvements in your videos/presentations. Not really the entire audiophile thing, but just a bit about the perceived improvements. Regarding these Kef’s I guess that they sounds less clangy and with vocals will be less nasal after the modification. But I can’t hear them and you can, so spice it up a bit, and give us a short subjective before and after analysis. Thanks for interesting presentations.
He wouldn’t do it if it wasn’t an improvement in instrument separation, tonal linearity, and imaging on, and off axis. These three things objectively improve the sound, so you pretty much know the changes your going to get from these kits: a big improvement in every way.
I bought some and I was glad to see it too cos I was looking for one before. I build speakers and so I got some Q150s for reference monitors. But the Q 150s rolled off badly in the treble so I got some normal 2-ways (over double the price) and they have good treble. Now my made speakers sound better than ever. They are coaxials (like the KEFs) home hacked from separate woofers&tweeters. Tedious.
Would love to see this kind of upgrade for the bigger version, the q350. Hopefully someone will request an upgrade and send them in, as sending mine all the way from NZ is not really cost affective
Mate i couldn't agree more! Im in Aus and i would love to upgrade my Q350s And soon i'll be getting some Q950s as well and i'll want to upgrade the lot.
I really wonder how the KEF LS50 Meta measures. It has a curved front, which should reduce upper frequency reflections. And the Meta plate is supposed to absorb stored energy leaving the back of the driver, which should significantly improve speed and clarity.
I am pretty sure the famous LS50 can be improved by adjusting the crossover. I hope you can take a look at them, as they are very special speakers. The cabinet is great, like concrete. The unit is also nice, please check it out.
Had that speaker, was always disappointed with the resolution, its not the crossover I think its the drivers themselves. Maybe doppler distortion from the vibrating waveguide (woofer)
Hi Danny, love what you do. My question is have you ever looked at the JM Labs Chorus line, more specifically the 725. They served me well as I was learning what I was hearing, but I have never had as good a sound room. About ten years ago I pulled the binding post plate off, and was not impressed by what I saw. Thanks, Stu.
I just bought a pair and these speakers sound great despite the paper measurements. I believe manufacturers design the speakers for a specific sound hence why so many sound signatures. They have an awesome sound stage, 3D like, with great instrument separation and clear pronounced vocals. The bass is decent for a 5 inch mid woofer. I have no complaints.
From what i have read , the current Q series have realiy wicked soundstage and imaging, seem like great value for money , thats the take i get on the range so far anyway.
I just bought them also. I love them and don't notice any offensive sounds in the "peaky" area around 1k that he talks about. I also don't find them too bright at all, just detailed.
Cant wait if something can be done for the ATC SCM19 you had last time. Should be really hard, i feel that they are basically at the upper end for what can be done for the money.
really would enjoy listening to you teaching a class on xover design. explaining all the parts, part values, series vs. parallel, how to use a scope for this application. making the blueprint, using your xover designer program. talking about goals like flat or V shaped. then us hobbyist can continue learning and make out own crossovers withoutnmuch help.k
@UCvsXJZjkXAwMZfrD2_L9dWw Erse inductors* But I meant the end results of the upgrades vs the stock crossovers, not just the brands of the components, thats a given. ;P
As the Q150 has been widely reviewed AND measured, am wondering why the before on-axis response (assuming tracking window/FFT measurement) shown at about 2:40 is remarkably different and rougher than the aggregate of of other published measurements. I've measured many hundreds of loudspeakers in a professional capacity, including KEF and Tannoy coaxial products, and never seen the raggegness on axis or in the power response, as often alluded, here. Further, that the design engineers don't understand or consider the very basic principles of driver placement on a baffle, driver selection and measurement, crossover design, when/how iron or laminated core inductors behave in a given passband and current application, or how to perform system analysis and measurement Including basic waterfalls, and that Danny can solve these egregious issues in a matter of hours or days, seems a rather large leap of acceptance.... Danny seems sincere, and the channel is very interesting, but I'm a bit cynical, here. Have GR's speakers been reviewed and measured by independent rags or TH-camrs, for objectivity?
It’s no myth that speaker manufacturers cut in the production costs by putting things in the cabinet that no one sees. So with better parts the crossover could make the speaker sound better anyway. I think changes in the crossover could help to create better sounding speakers, but it also depends on the room where they are used. Many rooms have so much reflections that a pricey crossover measured in a studio won’t help in a common living room.
It looks very different from Erin’s recent measurements on ErinsAudioCorner and imo you are right to be cynical about a lot of what is being presented by Danny.
Yeah.... this "I can fix all in a few hours" is not relly believable... that said, better parts will do better and cleaner - but I am not sure the XO is "better designed", maybe just "better components" .... but hey, still cool
ErinsAudioCorner showed a quote different off axis response utilizing his Klippel measuring system. Off axis response according to Erin was not good. Not sure how these improvements will help any off axis frequency. Good question. Danny - can you enlighten us?
i would like to see conversions from ported/slave to acoustic suspension/infinite baffle. i am sure there are benefits to be had instead of just plug a port.
Hi GR-Research, I know you did this video a while ago, but I was wondering what is causing the slightly metallic or tinny sound I am hearing from these KEF 150s I recently purchased for $300 on sale? For example, snare drums sound a bit overemphasized. Is the metallic character a result of the midrange spikes/peaks you pointed out in your measurements? Thanks for your great work and sharing it with us!
Mister, I'm new to your videos, so please excuse me. Do any of the Q150 concerns with respect to frequency response, port resonance, et cetera apply also to the Q350? I ask because this is the speaker I own and I would like to try some of these modifications, too.
Hello, ive watched a lot of video,s at gr research and i wonder if you ever had done a speaker upgrade for a dcm timepeace ? Or is this too old, The same question for a jbl L80 Thx Ruud from the netherlands
I've watched a bunch of these videos and my question is, "Do all of these proposed changes enhance the design character of the speakers, or do they end up making all of these speakers sound similar as if they were GR designed?" Admittedly I am a "Rube" but speakers are designed to translate the source material and it is through the electronics that the sound is colored. I am thinking Marshall v Fender guitar amp played through the same speaker cabinet.
Air core inductors sound better, but are more expensive. Higher grade capacitors are more thermally stable with improved capacitance. Put it this way - a SilverGoldOil capacitor can set you back $100, which you’ll find in a high end Sonus faber but def not in a $300 kef.
My q950's sound great in ways,but there is a spike in the treble range that gets really annoying with istening fatigue big time. I'm thinking about either selling them or trying upgrades to see if it would help.
Finally a speaker that I own! Ordered the kits today. I bought two set of them when they went on sale. Will be nice to have a second set to A/B test against.
I just ordered one Q150 as a center speaker and will see if he'll sell it for just one. My seating position is only 7' from my TV so I need to make this speaker work. Off axis response and lack of lobing is very important.
Hi!! I am wondering, for a small desktop full range speaker setup, what if anything should I use to protect and improve the sound of the woofer? Using 2 3/4" drivers from a set of JVC cherry wood speakers from one of their higher end executive systems, however they are straight wire to driver. I will be 3d printing the cabinates for these. They are 4ohm 30w full range bamboo cone drivers
Yes KEF has always been that way with the designs. I had a set of Q15’s couple decades ago. They imaged well and were good off axis. I don’t recall their cabinet being so resonant. However, it’s worth noting that the Q15’s were more expensive in 1995 than the Q150’s are now. Adjusted for inflation, the Q15’s would be around $650-$700 in 2021 dollars. This means the Q150 is less than half the inflation-adjusted price of the equivalent model from the 90’s and likely the current uni-q driver is better. The closer equivalent to the Q15 would be the R3 model which is $2000. However, the R series speakers are way better than the Q versions from the 90’s so it’s apples to oranges. The best value right now is to buy a clearance LS50 for under $1000. The LS50 has a better driver and cabinet, and likely a better crossover as well.
@@ChrisMag100 While that may be true, the ls50 doesn't sound that great, especially at it's price point. The Meta version is better but better sound can be had for the money.
Nah, many traditional 2 way speakers have just as good or better off axis response. It's just another way to skin the cat but at too great a cost in other areas.
If it is accomplished acoustically transparent, it would surpass a passive design and be a lot more flexible. That is of course not the authors imperative, as he sells upgraded crossovers.
Hi, how do you feel about the 150s for L/C/R home theater setup? I'm concerned about off axis performance due to our seating arrangement. main seat is 13ft away and off axis seats 10ft away. thanks.
I owned these speakers and returned them. They were the best speakers ive heard in terms of revealing a depth into the music ive never heard. Its almost like the noise floor was lower while listening to the speakers. I returned then because they still didn’t provide everything I wanted and i found i had the same issues with the speakers that danny points out. FYI i found this video years after returning my kefs.
If your consumer benefits are really valid, I'm sure the KEF people would like to know. The manufacturer can buy those electronic components in quantity cheaper and remedy these "deficiencies", offering an upgrade for less than you can. Something doesn't make sense.
Are any audio wire companies making silicone insulated products? For power transfer, they are fantastic. The insulation is so stable that you can run very high amperage on small gauge wires. Not sure if that would translate to much benefit with audio, however. But some of these wires can take enormous amounts of current, such as 100 amps through 10AWG for 1 minute and you can hold it in your hand.
Try PTFE or simply teflon insulated silver plated copper wires. One of the best dielectrics around and heat resistant as no other - your pan might testify. For comparison, silicone insulation is rated at 105°C and PTFE at 200°C. Try holding that in your hand. Bear in mind though, that resistance of copper and other alloys increases with temperature, therefore under no circumstances is there a notion to undersize wiring in Hi-Fi, so that the temperature of conductors goes above ambient in use.
When hearing these kinds of reviews, I would be curious to know where you would rank the modified speaker you just worked on. In this case, close to the base encore? to the upgraded encore? to the nx-studio? I know it's def not as good as the studio, but I think you can see where I'm going with my idea.
I had some Q150s and I had to wind the treble up to at least 5 before they sounded any good. On the graph there is a big dip at around 15 khz. I'm old and can't hear above that. So (looking at the graph) they roll off after 8 khz for my ears. This explains why I had to wind up the treble so much. I got rid of them after a day.
It turns out that I can hear up to 15 khz easily (if I crank it). My grand nephew can hear up to 17 khz through my single driver speakers (crazy)! Especially since they are $9 wide band drivers (highly modified and open mounted). 😅 And I can't hear 17 khz no matter how much I crank it...I'm nearly 70!
En, to be honest I don’t think the difference worth extra 200 or maybe it looks slightly better according to the experience of your microphones. But, it’s very hard to tell merics solely based on response. The response clan really hate BW 600 700 series, as the response is crap according to “the high is to intensified graph said”.........But But, unfortunately, the second-hand market doesn’t think so. most averages Johns around the 6s hump love it...........So, I think telling one solely by a graph is a little bit in doubt........And the definition of “good” parts is also a little bit waged and unclear in your standard. on one hand, expensive one doesn’t guarantee good results, other hands, one is defying goodness by part cost. So, in the end what is the rule of good parts?tag or effectiveness? For instance, As the inductors air core used to be part of high frequency power supply’s, it costs cents per big ass coil, the transformers maybe a little bit more expensive in old days. But as you guys step in, it explodes 10s or 1000s times more expensive...........capacitors, resistors, especially resistors they are literally the same thing. So the air core is a better part because now it has a unrealistic price tag made up by market, or it simply performs noticeably better compared with iron core one in mid bass department? I have the same questions regarding tube amps, see? We are in a witchcraft industry to be honest, don’t ever mention scientific methods. Yours or mine are hardly precisely repeating the results, the ear canal is already a pain in the ass regarding personal differences ........ it’s hard to quantify it, so maybe don’t act like this one maybe it’s more science proved, if it’s true, We should saw something in xxx engineering or molding big ass breakthrough....
When I last opoened back of my bookshelf kef Q tens which dosent appear to have a voice coil. an or some junk part subsitute. any one has any info about these or the parts contained there in..id appreciate any info about the crossover parts used on these vintage kefs... unfortunately theres very little info on line about these ? im trying to Declaw the gunky glue which obvisouly is robbining these speakers of Excellient sound there potential; is limitless! thanks..
Hi Danny. By you helping both the customer and KEF all at the same time. Who knows for sure if KEF and if they did, slip one pass you to use for them? I say push all those company back. You just have to show us that you know what your doing and can do it so very well. Your running out of speakers to mod. Can you upgrade on the mod you just did. As they say many audio equipment come from the cottage do-it-yourself, hobbyist that went into business. Last question after all the testing on the stock speaker get someone to remove the x-over and go at it like a blind date. Going bowling date has a handicap. Yep I'm still crazy
@@mikevalentinas6766 a well designed crossover doesn't have to cost more. Here they use higher quality but cheaper ones with the proper specs would also give the better response we see. If you've ever seen diy kits that use very cheap crossover parts like from diy sound group they have excellent on and off axis. Also look at the dirt cheap jbl 3 series. Cheap doesn't have to mean poorly designed.
@@mikevalentinas6766 these are being measured either outside or using a function that removes anything after the direct sound. What Danny is measuring is the response of the speaker it self. If the speaker is inaccurate and especially has poor off axis that doesn't resemble the on axis it won't sound good in any room. At least not as good as it should. What Danny is showing is the true response.
Ha ha ha , better quality capacitor or resistor may measure the same but sound totally different. These audiophile qualities can not be measured but must be heard.
@@kdomster9141 Just FYI, most probably can't tell if you're being facetious or not when you start your sentence with, "ha ha ha". And when you space the ha's out you come across like a serial killer, lol. Just my opinion though.
If before then it doesn't affect the freq resp, but serves to flatten impedance (for use with tube amps) So in this case the RLC is used to EQ freq resp of the woofer.
I bought some Q 150s and I had to wind the treble up to like 5 clicks before I liked them. I immediately traded them in for some B&W 706s. At least l actually can listen to them flat. They don't seem to lack ride but they are a bit quiet on the high hat and I can't "see their throat" like I can on my made speakers. But they are great for basic bass, med, treble level reference. That's all I need to build speakers that flog the B&Ws.
Danny, you have performed many xover mods for many speakers, I think it is time you produce a video you discuss your one Voicing Strategy for all speakers or strategies for different types of speakers.
I tried to hear 15khz on TH-cam and I still could if I cranked it enough (through my home built 2-ways). And I had some Q 150s and it seems (by your graph) that the Q150s roll off just at my limit of hearing. lol No wonder they were "muffly". So I traded them in for some non point source speakers, B&W 706s. Over double the price and much better sound (and adequate treble output). Now I can compare my point source speakers with non point source 706s. My home built speakers are coaxcials and the difference shows mostly on voice and piano. Getting expensive speakers as reference monitors is the best thing I ever did (to know basically how a speaker should sound). Of course mine have a little bit of subtle artistic flair added.
Most of the time the YT limits a lot of material to 15k, from time to time some one will upload full bandwidth audio. But by the time you're 50-60 most likely you won't even hear 15k. Some tweeters just have that extra energy than others even if they measure very closely - the off axis pattern influences the top energy, dome material, motor. Finally the midrange/midwoofer cone material/crossover choice will make the presence range sound very different (say SB Alu (Ceramic) vs poly or paper cone). Yeah, the better parts the better the final outcome.
Danny can you add a short A/B of one speaker at the end of your video's? Just to give your audience a short impression of your work done on it. Keep it up.
@@tweakradje Thousands of hours of listening have been invested into how each individual part effects the sound. So when I use a particular part in the circuit I know what the sound benefits and advantages are.
@@tweakradje Hearing them through their system via a compressed youtube file if a crappy recording made with a video camera isn't really getting to hear them.
Couldn't you tweak the sound with an EQ and get the same results? I would do a listening test with your mod and one without to see if it's worth the money.
Okay Danny. KEF makes a good speaker, and I know that you will make a better xo, no doubt. I know that you get so many emails and questions here, like I've got 4u here. If you could would you like to touch on their (or any brand) pov - maybe they ID want that HUMP? Maybe it gives a lower bottom end that some might like? Even in a future video if it's a valid point? Thanks
Hey Danny great videos . Not sure if your aware. Kef was selling these for 299.00 a pair over the holidays. They were sold out everywhere. I did get a pair just because of the cost. I suspect you to run out of these kits fast.
Really though? 260$ (+ shipping?) to upgrade a 300$ speaker? Hmmmm. I'd prefer to drop the extra 300$ on a nice dsp and measuring equipment. EQ can do most of this, or am I missing something?
But could dsp do this? I'm trying to figure out the pros and cons of either approach. I'm starting a four way build, and thinking active would be a lot easier than getting a custom crossover designed, or attempting it myself? Just trying to expand my knowledge.
@@MattP613 I like this guy but own these speakers and they sound excellent.. the slight bump in that range can easily be adjusted and to spend that kind of money..these are literally some of the best sounding speakers on the market at the price. Totally right in thinking this is not an upgrade that makes any sense.
I’ve been into audio for over 40 years plus. Along the way I’ve owned a number of Kef speakers and listened to many more. Some very good, some not quite so good. I’ve never experienced a Kef speaker, or any other speaker for that matter sound like ‘nails along chop boards’. I’d be interested to learn what your source recording and source components were, to create that sound effect? Or, maybe you were grossly over exaggerating the issue for maximum detrimental effect.
I'd say it was a bit of an exaggeration and also partially just the perspective of someone who is used to listening to really high quality speakers. I own the Q150s and listen to them every day (mostly TV/movies, some music) and I definitely wouldn't say they sound as bad as he made them seem. However, I also don't currently own any better speakers, so my perspective is just that of someone who is used to cheaper speakers. He's right about the cabinet resonance. These things are not built very solid at all. His measurements in the 200Hz-1kHz range also match mine, so I agree it's not a very flat frequency response. Basically, they're not on the level of really good speakers, but they're not terrible either.
@@nathan518 in one of my hifi systems, I have a pair of Kefs much higher up im the range. I don’t own any measuring equipment other than my ears, which is what actually what matters. But according to the to the measurements made on the same speakers by the critics at Steriophile magazine, the frequency response is amazingly flat. As regards cabinet resonance, take a butchers at Danny’s review of the Kef LS50, where he compares the cabinets to solid rock. I’m all for constructive criticism of another manufacturer’s product, but going all out to be negatively destructive serves no real world useful function. My work colleague has been dating the same girl for the last 6 months. She’s a pleasant enough girl. Not the type of girl that ‘looks wise’ would grab my attention, or stand out from the crowd, but I would never label her as gross or ugly. I think you get my point.
@@howardskeivys4184 Yeah I get your point. The words he used to describe the speakers were overly harsh. I know he was using hyperbole to make a point, but it's not great that he wasn't accurately describing the sound of the speaker. Also, I'd bet that the differences in measurements between me and Danny and Stereophile were due to the room they were measured in. That's a good reminder why measurements can't really tell you how a speaker will sound in your own room.
@@nathan518 I think that Steriophile use an anechoic chamber for their measurements. Danny from GR Research frequently claims his room is ‘perfectly’ acoustically treated. In the real world there is no such thing as perfect and I’m not the foremost advocate of room treatment. I think it’s often a costly and unnecessary solution to a trivial issue.
He doesn't listen to the speakers before making these adjustments. I know, absolutely wild. It's true, he is very vocal about doing this. Kinda puts some things into perspective. Danny, if you read this: there is more to the sound of a speaker than can be measured by FR and CSD. You should really listen to the speakers.
@@chubbyballsack Yes, quality of parts is huge in my experience, not only in transients but tonal quality...I can even still hear differences with my 50% loss in one ear
This would be great, I have some R3 and I feel there is something missing around 1K and the HF can be a little sharp. Would send one of mine in but based in the UK.
A lot drivers have problems around 1-1.5k due to cone edge resonance. Basically the surround has different acoustic impedance and the wave is reflected back creating this kind of a glitch in freq resp. A lot of softer cones like paper, polypropylene have this issue. A special edge structure/profile, surround design like the one from Purifi minimizes the issues. Also Erin mentioned something about the Kef coax when he measured it some time ago.
You summed it up by saying this a ‘budget speaker’. I would not buy a budget speaker then spend £259 to potentially improve it. I would use that £259 to buy a more expensive speaker!
I think it would be better to just grab a MiniDSP 2x4 HD instead of tossing a new crossover in. $200ish and much more expandable use cases with Dirac Live upgradeability and can easily be used again and again and again if you upgrade/swap speakers. My Q150s don't measure anything like the measurements shown here but that stuff can be very room dependent or a matter of how it was measured. I use mine at a desk and the only problem area is a dip at 800Hz that is simple to fix with DSP.
That would still level the crappy parts in the signal path and the Mini DSP will suck the life out of them (whatever is left). That would be a horrible combination.
@@dannyrichie9743 I like the speaker in your profile pic. Personally I don't see DSP sucking the life out of my speakers. But that could be because I'm not at a specific tier yet. I know the MiniDSP 2x4HD isn't the prettiest measuring DSP on paper. But if my ears can't hear a difference is there a difference? It's all preference in the end. You've heard the difference and can't go back I'm sure. I don't have an ear for that level of detail.
@@JoshM7 There are good DSP devices, however, when the D/A converter, analog output stage, and power supply is about equal to a a 30 year old CD player sold at Walmart, then there is going to be limitations.
Man the way you move that speaker cabinet around it’s so light ( cheap cheesy design low quality ) like it’s made out of cardboard. I know when I build a speaker cabinet and every time somebody goes to pick it up they asked me if it’s built out of lead lol 😂🤣
To be fair, that is one of their cheapest models. Not saying it's justified, but to keep it in mind. I own a pair of KEF LS50's by KEF and the cabinet is pretty well built.
@@zeke937 Yes I’m well aware of the speakers that are offered in the big box stores off the shelf cabinet designs. I built my Back Loaded Horn full range speaker just the cabinet without the speaker driver installed weighed 89 pound each
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.76[1/2] โจโฉเปิดป่าโหดรับโอ๊ต-ป๊อบ รอบนี้พี่เอาจริง!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pNg5O7Pf-a0/mqdefault.jpg)
You can always count on Danny to take a dump on your speaker 🤣
If you mean accurately measure and tell the truth without fan boy hype, then yeah. He's a mythbuster for brand monsense.
$259 2 years ago.. $420 today. Damn.
Was fun watching Danny build the network!! He really tried many different combinations to try and get this to the absolute best! Did a great job!
These upgrade videos are interesting, not because I have any if these speakers, but because, I can see the issues with the speakers. Pushing a mid or mid)bass driver too high to reach the H.F. unit allowing breakup modes into the passband is a common issue across speaker companies. Thx. Keep 'em coming.
Can't wait for the sit down and listen videos, knowledge is power!
So the price points on the KEF UNI-Q series basically determine the quality of x-over your gonna get. Same driver essentially though the model line. Im starting to see the pattern now with these big brands, and I appreciate how Danny lays it all out for us in an understandable way. Im becoming more and more convinced DIY is the way to go as more big name speakers pass through the GR research shop!
The problem is todays " cheap" speakers take alot of filtering to get them to sound good, the 70's and 80's stuff usually had japan or usa, good qaulity drivers and real wood boxes, easier to dial in with tone controls
So upgraded q150's should match q350's?
Q350 isnt a higher tier model just a bigger woofer.
every time i worry that i'm spending too much energy trying to get the most out of my hifi setup i discover a channel like this
If ur not knowledgable, run!!! Amir, erin, audiphonics are the choice, u won't get the truth here. Danny is a true logic and physics ignoring audiophile😂
It would be great if you could tell a bit more of the sound Improvements in your videos/presentations. Not really the entire audiophile thing, but just a bit about the perceived improvements. Regarding these Kef’s I guess that they sounds less clangy and with vocals will be less nasal after the modification. But I can’t hear them and you can, so spice it up a bit, and give us a short subjective before and after analysis. Thanks for interesting presentations.
Exactly
He wouldn’t do it if it wasn’t an improvement in instrument separation, tonal linearity, and imaging on, and off axis. These three things objectively improve the sound, so you pretty much know the changes your going to get from these kits: a big improvement in every way.
Yes! I was hoping you would feature this speaker.
I bought some and I was glad to see it too cos I was looking for one before. I build speakers and so I got some Q150s for reference monitors. But the Q 150s rolled off badly in the treble so I got some normal 2-ways (over double the price) and they have good treble. Now my made speakers sound better than ever. They are coaxials (like the KEFs) home hacked from separate woofers&tweeters. Tedious.
Would love to see this kind of upgrade for the bigger version, the q350. Hopefully someone will request an upgrade and send them in, as sending mine all the way from NZ is not really cost affective
Mate i couldn't agree more! Im in Aus and i would love to upgrade my Q350s
And soon i'll be getting some Q950s as well and i'll want to upgrade the lot.
Making a decent speaker top notch - way to go Danny!
Excellent Danny, great video, your very knowledgeable👍
I really wonder how the KEF LS50 Meta measures. It has a curved front, which should reduce upper frequency reflections. And the Meta plate is supposed to absorb stored energy leaving the back of the driver, which should significantly improve speed and clarity.
I am pretty sure the famous LS50 can be improved by adjusting the crossover. I hope you can take a look at them, as they are very special speakers. The cabinet is great, like concrete. The unit is also nice, please check it out.
Had that speaker, was always disappointed with the resolution, its not the crossover I think its the drivers themselves. Maybe doppler distortion from the vibrating waveguide (woofer)
@@vincentpedalino618 Yes it fools newbies into thinking it 'high resolution' due to its piercing treble. Very fatiguing IMO
Hi Danny, love what you do. My question is have you ever looked at the JM Labs Chorus line, more specifically the 725. They served me well as I was learning what I was hearing, but I have never had as good a sound room. About ten years ago I pulled the binding post plate off, and was not impressed by what I saw. Thanks, Stu.
Danny is back in his element around speakers.
Great video! Would really like to see what you would have to say about the LS50 meta and the parts used in it....
Send one in....
Super sharp present. Beautiful.
I just bought a pair and these speakers sound great despite the paper measurements. I believe manufacturers design the speakers for a specific sound hence why so many sound signatures. They have an awesome sound stage, 3D like, with great instrument separation and clear pronounced vocals. The bass is decent for a 5 inch mid woofer. I have no complaints.
From what i have read , the current Q series have realiy wicked soundstage and imaging, seem like great value for money , thats the take i get on the range so far anyway.
@@richieroo4844 The speakers will make you think someone is knocking on the doors. You can hear details ring and tap by your ears.
They design the speakers for the price point they sell it at. There’s always compromises.
I agree 100% these along with my 12" HSU sub sound great for music or movies.
I just bought them also. I love them and don't notice any offensive sounds in the "peaky" area around 1k that he talks about. I also don't find them too bright at all, just detailed.
Welcome back, Sensei!!
Hi GR, so which speaker did you like better as is, these or the Sony SSCS5?
Love the shirt!
Cant wait if something can be done for the ATC SCM19 you had last time. Should be really hard, i feel that they are basically at the upper end for what can be done for the money.
They were a little soft on top, but pretty smooth. Parts quality was fair to good. I'll shoot a video in them soon.
Always get top reviews but heard a few engineers say they don’t measure well.
really would enjoy listening to you teaching a class on xover design. explaining all the parts, part values, series vs. parallel, how to use a scope for this application. making the blueprint, using your xover designer program. talking about goals like flat or V shaped. then us hobbyist can continue learning and make out own crossovers withoutnmuch help.k
Another fun video, Danny! Always interesting to see what you manage to do with these upgrades!
@UCvsXJZjkXAwMZfrD2_L9dWw Erse inductors*
But I meant the end results of the upgrades vs the stock crossovers, not just the brands of the components, thats a given. ;P
As the Q150 has been widely reviewed AND measured, am wondering why the before on-axis response (assuming tracking window/FFT measurement) shown at about 2:40 is remarkably different and rougher than the aggregate of of other published measurements. I've measured many hundreds of loudspeakers in a professional capacity, including KEF and Tannoy coaxial products, and never seen the raggegness on axis or in the power response, as often alluded, here. Further, that the design engineers don't understand or consider the very basic principles of driver placement on a baffle, driver selection and measurement, crossover design, when/how iron or laminated core inductors behave in a given passband and current application, or how to perform system analysis and measurement Including basic waterfalls, and that Danny can solve these egregious issues in a matter of hours or days, seems a rather large leap of acceptance.... Danny seems sincere, and the channel is very interesting, but I'm a bit cynical, here. Have GR's speakers been reviewed and measured by independent rags or TH-camrs, for objectivity?
It’s no myth that speaker manufacturers cut in the production costs by putting things in the cabinet that no one sees. So with better parts the crossover could make the speaker sound better anyway. I think changes in the crossover could help to create better sounding speakers, but it also depends on the room where they are used. Many rooms have so much reflections that a pricey crossover measured in a studio won’t help in a common living room.
It looks very different from Erin’s recent measurements on ErinsAudioCorner and imo you are right to be cynical about a lot of what is being presented by Danny.
Yeah.... this "I can fix all in a few hours" is not relly believable... that said, better parts will do better and cleaner - but I am not sure the XO is "better designed", maybe just "better components" .... but hey, still cool
ErinsAudioCorner showed a quote different off axis response utilizing his Klippel measuring system. Off axis response according to Erin was not good. Not sure how these improvements will help any off axis frequency. Good question.
Danny - can you enlighten us?
It's a business off course, audio is subjective anyway, so knowing fancy parts have been added, it must sound better.
i would like to see conversions from ported/slave to acoustic suspension/infinite baffle. i am sure there are benefits to be had instead of just plug a port.
It be interesting to see measurements of a pair of b&w dm602s
Do you have upgrades for the Dali Zensor 3?
I think they are very good speakers in the low/beginners price range
Smooth, professional video. Thanks Danny. Any chance of upgrading the Bowers & Wilkins 606?
Someone has to send him their pair to measure and experiment with.
@@briansimmons5363 Just one, no need to send a pair.
Nice upgrade!! 👍
Hi GR-Research, I know you did this video a while ago, but I was wondering what is causing the slightly metallic or tinny sound I am hearing from these KEF 150s I recently purchased for $300 on sale? For example, snare drums sound a bit overemphasized. Is the metallic character a result of the midrange spikes/peaks you pointed out in your measurements? Thanks for your great work and sharing it with us!
Ringing in the woofer range at 1kHz.
Would you recommend doing just the No Rez upgrade? If so should No Rez be applied to all the inside walls in the cabinet?
That's cool, have you done an upgrade kit for the Monitor Audio Bronze 2s by any chance?
I'd like to see what you think about the KEF LS50 Meta
Cool video. Do you plan to upgrade the Q acoustics 3030i?
I wish you could get hold of some old Tannoy Cheviots.....I'm sure my 1976 models are ready for a x-over upgrade....
Mister, I'm new to your videos, so please excuse me. Do any of the Q150 concerns with respect to frequency response, port resonance, et cetera apply also to the Q350? I ask because this is the speaker I own and I would like to try some of these modifications, too.
I don't know. Someone will have to send one in for me to take a look at it.
Danny!!!! Can you turn the SP-FS52 into better sounding speakers by upgrading the internal components????
Can you tell me what’s inside my AR11’s I bought them new in 1977. They’re still working just fine.
Hello, ive watched a lot of video,s at gr research and i wonder if you ever had done a speaker upgrade for a dcm timepeace ? Or is this too old, The same question for a jbl L80
Thx Ruud from the netherlands
I've watched a bunch of these videos and my question is, "Do all of these proposed changes enhance the design character of the speakers, or do they end up making all of these speakers sound similar as if they were GR designed?" Admittedly I am a "Rube" but speakers are designed to translate the source material and it is through the electronics that the sound is colored. I am thinking Marshall v Fender guitar amp played through the same speaker cabinet.
Air core inductors sound better, but are more expensive. Higher grade capacitors are more thermally stable with improved capacitance. Put it this way - a SilverGoldOil capacitor can set you back $100, which you’ll find in a high end Sonus faber but def not in a $300 kef.
My q950's sound great in ways,but there is a spike in the treble range that gets really annoying with istening fatigue big time.
I'm thinking about either selling them or trying upgrades to see if it would help.
Get an EQ, or tube buffer. Works wonders to tame what you are describing.
Hi there ! What about the R100 from Kef ? Will you make a video with those ? Cheers !
This speaker is a Gamechanger
Finally a speaker that I own! Ordered the kits today. I bought two set of them when they went on sale. Will be nice to have a second set to A/B test against.
@@nicholasmehring3376 me too
Yes, please do blind level matched ABX testing.
Did you get round to upgrading the kef's and testing them back to back after the mods have been done. I'm interested to see what your thought are.
Intersted in reading your notes as well.
@@robertbaird7001 he might have been electrocuted
I can see these kinds of upgrades worth it for those who already own these but not for anyone looking to purchase.
I just ordered one Q150 as a center speaker and will see if he'll sell it for just one. My seating position is only 7' from my TV so I need to make this speaker work. Off axis response and lack of lobing is very important.
What can you do for the Kef LS50?
Hi!! I am wondering, for a small desktop full range speaker setup, what if anything should I use to protect and improve the sound of the woofer? Using 2 3/4" drivers from a set of JVC cherry wood speakers from one of their higher end executive systems, however they are straight wire to driver. I will be 3d printing the cabinates for these. They are 4ohm 30w full range bamboo cone drivers
Cut A port for em..just an idea?
Nice one! Is the good off axis response mainly the result of that concentric driver?
Yes KEF has always been that way with the designs. I had a set of Q15’s couple decades ago. They imaged well and were good off axis. I don’t recall their cabinet being so resonant. However, it’s worth noting that the Q15’s were more expensive in 1995 than the Q150’s are now.
Adjusted for inflation, the Q15’s would be around $650-$700 in 2021 dollars. This means the Q150 is less than half the inflation-adjusted price of the equivalent model from the 90’s and likely the current uni-q driver is better.
The closer equivalent to the Q15 would be the R3 model which is $2000. However, the R series speakers are way better than the Q versions from the 90’s so it’s apples to oranges.
The best value right now is to buy a clearance LS50 for under $1000. The LS50 has a better driver and cabinet, and likely a better crossover as well.
@@ChrisMag100 While that may be true, the ls50 doesn't sound that great, especially at it's price point. The Meta version is better but better sound can be had for the money.
Nah, many traditional 2 way speakers have just as good or better off axis response. It's just another way to skin the cat but at too great a cost in other areas.
How about we hear before and after ?
How easy is it to do the surgery if you've never modified a speaker before?
Genuine question, what about removing the passive crossovers and going active with a dedicated amp per driver?
If it is accomplished acoustically transparent, it would surpass a passive design and be a lot more flexible. That is of course not the authors imperative, as he sells upgraded crossovers.
Hi, how do you feel about the 150s for L/C/R home theater setup? I'm concerned about off axis performance due to our seating arrangement. main seat is 13ft away and off axis seats 10ft away. thanks.
Hi, what’s the speaker with the less mods you’ve ever had to do?
Most people say this speaker sounds very good... XOver salesman says it sounds like "nails down a chalkboard". Shock horror lol
I owned these speakers and returned them. They were the best speakers ive heard in terms of revealing a depth into the music ive never heard. Its almost like the noise floor was lower while listening to the speakers. I returned then because they still didn’t provide everything I wanted and i found i had the same issues with the speakers that danny points out. FYI i found this video years after returning my kefs.
If your consumer benefits are really valid, I'm sure the KEF people would like to know. The manufacturer can buy those electronic components in quantity cheaper and remedy these "deficiencies", offering an upgrade for less than you can. Something doesn't make sense.
I am sure they are watching this video. And I'll be glad to sell the upgrade parts to them. I'm the only source for some of them.
My thoughts exactly
Are any audio wire companies making silicone insulated products? For power transfer, they are fantastic. The insulation is so stable that you can run very high amperage on small gauge wires. Not sure if that would translate to much benefit with audio, however. But some of these wires can take enormous amounts of current, such as 100 amps through 10AWG for 1 minute and you can hold it in your hand.
Try PTFE or simply teflon insulated silver plated copper wires. One of the best dielectrics around and heat resistant as no other - your pan might testify. For comparison, silicone insulation is rated at 105°C and PTFE at 200°C. Try holding that in your hand. Bear in mind though, that resistance of copper and other alloys increases with temperature, therefore under no circumstances is there a notion to undersize wiring in Hi-Fi, so that the temperature of conductors goes above ambient in use.
Danny, I’ve heard the LS50 is too difficult to get inside to upgrade. Have you ever taken a look at one?
No one has sent me one yet, but if they are anything like the rest of their line they should not be too hard to dig into.
When hearing these kinds of reviews, I would be curious to know where you would rank the modified speaker you just worked on. In this case, close to the base encore? to the upgraded encore? to the nx-studio? I know it's def not as good as the studio, but I think you can see where I'm going with my idea.
It is still several levels below the Encore even in the base level.
I have a pair so I’m interested
I had some Q150s and I had to wind the treble up to at least 5 before they sounded any good. On the graph there is a big dip at around 15 khz. I'm old and can't hear above that. So (looking at the graph) they roll off after 8 khz for my ears. This explains why I had to wind up the treble so much. I got rid of them after a day.
It turns out that I can hear up to 15 khz easily (if I crank it). My grand nephew can hear up to 17 khz through my single driver speakers (crazy)! Especially since they are $9 wide band drivers (highly modified and open mounted). 😅 And I can't hear 17 khz no matter how much I crank it...I'm nearly 70!
En, to be honest I don’t think the difference worth extra 200 or maybe it looks slightly better according to the experience of your microphones. But, it’s very hard to tell merics solely based on response. The response clan really hate BW 600 700 series, as the response is crap according to “the high is to intensified graph said”.........But But, unfortunately, the second-hand market doesn’t think so. most averages Johns around the 6s hump love it...........So, I think telling one solely by a graph is a little bit in doubt........And the definition of “good” parts is also a little bit waged and unclear in your standard. on one hand, expensive one doesn’t guarantee good results, other hands, one is defying goodness by part cost. So, in the end what is the rule of good parts?tag or effectiveness? For instance, As the inductors air core used to be part of high frequency power supply’s, it costs cents per big ass coil, the transformers maybe a little bit more expensive in old days. But as you guys step in, it explodes 10s or 1000s times more expensive...........capacitors, resistors, especially resistors they are literally the same thing. So the air core is a better part because now it has a unrealistic price tag made up by market, or it simply performs noticeably better compared with iron core one in mid bass department? I have the same questions regarding tube amps, see? We are in a witchcraft industry to be honest, don’t ever mention scientific methods. Yours or mine are hardly precisely repeating the results, the ear canal is already a pain in the ass regarding personal differences ........ it’s hard to quantify it, so maybe don’t act like this one maybe it’s more science proved, if it’s true, We should saw something in xxx engineering or molding big ass breakthrough....
When I last opoened back of my bookshelf kef Q tens which dosent appear to have a voice coil. an or some junk part subsitute. any one has any info about these or the parts contained there in..id appreciate any info about the crossover parts used on these vintage kefs... unfortunately theres very little info on line about these ? im trying to Declaw the gunky glue which obvisouly is robbining these speakers of Excellient sound there potential; is limitless! thanks..
Hi Danny. By you helping both the customer and KEF all at the same time. Who knows for sure if KEF and if they did, slip one pass you to use for them?
I say push all those company back. You just have to show us that you know what your doing and can do it so very well. Your running out of speakers to mod. Can you upgrade on the mod you just did.
As they say many audio equipment come from the cottage do-it-yourself, hobbyist that went into business.
Last question after all the testing on the stock speaker get someone to remove the x-over and go at it like a blind date. Going bowling date has a handicap.
Yep I'm still crazy
Ever looked at any aperion audio speakers?
I just want you to tell me. How does it sound.
Please do
Great video. It's sad companies aren't paying competent designers to properly design this stuff.
they are. but they are trying to hit a price point that people are willing to pay. the Q150s are great for the price.
@@mikevalentinas6766 a well designed crossover doesn't have to cost more. Here they use higher quality but cheaper ones with the proper specs would also give the better response we see. If you've ever seen diy kits that use very cheap crossover parts like from diy sound group they have excellent on and off axis. Also look at the dirt cheap jbl 3 series. Cheap doesn't have to mean poorly designed.
@@hometheatergurus So far I have found the Elac stuff to be cheaply made but really well designed. That little Sony CS-5 was pretty good too.
@@hometheatergurus Would the KEFs measure differently in a different room?
@@mikevalentinas6766 these are being measured either outside or using a function that removes anything after the direct sound. What Danny is measuring is the response of the speaker it self. If the speaker is inaccurate and especially has poor off axis that doesn't resemble the on axis it won't sound good in any room. At least not as good as it should. What Danny is showing is the true response.
Are there any speakers to buy that wouldn't be needing upgrading?
Not according to this snake oil salesman😅
I was interested in this since I have a pair of these but after seeing your video about cables... idk if I can trust anything you say.
Ditto
Hey bro what do you think of the Atc passive? I master in LA ,,and everybody is raving about them
ATC model 19 is coming up. The top end looked pretty soft just like the model 11 but all else looked good. Parts quality is good to fair.
The Speaker Whisperer. I had plans. Guess they're postponed. Great content, my man
back to REAL measurement.. Thanks
As opposed to?
@@Old_Sailor85 cable conjecture
Ha ha ha , better quality capacitor or resistor may measure the same but sound totally different.
These audiophile qualities can not be measured but must be heard.
@@kdomster9141 Just FYI, most probably can't tell if you're being facetious or not when you start your sentence with, "ha ha ha". And when you space the ha's out you come across like a serial killer, lol. Just my opinion though.
@@kdomster9141 ha ha ha, My $3000 power cable makes my Pentium PC runs like a i9 Gen 10.
So the kits are not built
Does the notch filter change the incoming signal before being split into the woofer and tweeter? Just curious, Cheers Big Ears!
If before then it doesn't affect the freq resp, but serves to flatten impedance (for use with tube amps) So in this case the RLC is used to EQ freq resp of the woofer.
I bought some Q 150s and I had to wind the treble up to like 5 clicks before I liked them. I immediately traded them in for some B&W 706s. At least l actually can listen to them flat. They don't seem to lack ride but they are a bit quiet on the high hat and I can't "see their throat" like I can on my made speakers. But they are great for basic bass, med, treble level reference. That's all I need to build speakers that flog the B&Ws.
Danny, you have performed many xover mods for many speakers, I think it is time you produce a video you discuss your one Voicing Strategy for all speakers or strategies for different types of speakers.
Flat frequency response is always the target... But also decent impedance response, not too low.
@@bergennorway you are right however the details(implementations) are more subtle than that.
You said coils in "opposite directions" ...probably meant with axis at at 90 degrees to each other and as far away from each other as practical?
Yes.
It would be nice to see some 3rd party confirmation of these mods.
and then who confirms their confirmations? lol
Dream on.
Send it to the FACT CHECKERS that confirms or denies media stories. How well did that work out?
@@jamespeck276 Media stories? What media stories?
I tried to hear 15khz on TH-cam and I still could if I cranked it enough (through my home built 2-ways). And I had some Q 150s and it seems (by your graph) that the Q150s roll off just at my limit of hearing. lol No wonder they were "muffly". So I traded them in for some non point source speakers, B&W 706s. Over double the price and much better sound (and adequate treble output). Now I can compare my point source speakers with non point source 706s. My home built speakers are coaxcials and the difference shows mostly on voice and piano. Getting expensive speakers as reference monitors is the best thing I ever did (to know basically how a speaker should sound). Of course mine have a little bit of subtle artistic flair added.
Most of the time the YT limits a lot of material to 15k, from time to time some one will upload full bandwidth audio. But by the time you're 50-60 most likely you won't even hear 15k. Some tweeters just have that extra energy than others even if they measure very closely - the off axis pattern influences the top energy, dome material, motor. Finally the midrange/midwoofer cone material/crossover choice will make the presence range sound very different (say SB Alu (Ceramic) vs poly or paper cone). Yeah, the better parts the better the final outcome.
Danny can you add a short A/B of one speaker at the end of your video's? Just to give your audience a short impression of your work done on it. Keep it up.
I don't install the upgrade or build out a pair of them.
@@dannyrichie9743 Ok. But you hear them with your filter I hope. Mono should do.
@@tweakradje Thousands of hours of listening have been invested into how each individual part effects the sound. So when I use a particular part in the circuit I know what the sound benefits and advantages are.
@@dannyrichie9743 I understand your side. But potential customers maybe interested to hear their new investment :)
@@tweakradje Hearing them through their system via a compressed youtube file if a crappy recording made with a video camera isn't really getting to hear them.
Is this still for sale I’m looking to buy but the link says page not found please help thanks
Hey gr research what about d kef q 350 is dali oberon 3 better than the kef
Do I have to send the speakers in in order to get a crossover worked out for the said speakers?
If you are referring to this model then you need not send in the speakers. Just buy the upgrade.
The speaker 🔊 god 🙏🏼
Couldn't you tweak the sound with an EQ and get the same results?
I would do a listening test with your mod and one without to see if it's worth the money.
Schiit 4 band 149.00
That wouldn't change anything regarding port resonance, decay, mid range cone break up, or smoothing the off axis response.
Okay Danny. KEF makes a good speaker, and I know that you will make a better xo, no doubt. I know that you get so many emails and questions here, like I've got 4u here. If you could would you like to touch on their (or any brand) pov - maybe they ID want that HUMP? Maybe it gives a lower bottom end that some might like? Even in a future video if it's a valid point? Thanks
No one designs in a resonance peak or hump. Those are things that happen when there is a lack of good engineering and designing.
@@dannyrichie9743 Okay
Fair enough.
Please do a KEF LS50 modification 🙏🥺
Send one in....
Wouldn't a better crossover upgrade be making it active with linear phase crossovers?
Always. My guess is that you're now running $1500+ per speaker (upgrade only) for a moderate to mediocre transition. Just get the active Kef.
Typically the active ones sound a LOT worse compared to a passive one on good gear.
@@dannyrichie9743 I can't see why that would be the case. It's certainly not my experience.
@@chriswilson1853 You are likely not making comparisons to top level passive filters.
@@dannyrichie9743 I simply do not believe that any passive crossover is a match for a decent active system. It simply does not make sense.
Hey Danny great videos . Not sure if your aware. Kef was selling these for 299.00 a pair over the holidays. They were sold out everywhere. I did get a pair just because of the cost. I suspect you to run out of these kits fast.
Really though? 260$ (+ shipping?) to upgrade a 300$ speaker? Hmmmm. I'd prefer to drop the extra 300$ on a nice dsp and measuring equipment. EQ can do most of this, or am I missing something?
@@MattP613 this speaker is worth it.
But could dsp do this? I'm trying to figure out the pros and cons of either approach. I'm starting a four way build, and thinking active would be a lot easier than getting a custom crossover designed, or attempting it myself? Just trying to expand my knowledge.
@@MattP613 A dsp could color the sound but not do what a good crossover will do.
@@MattP613 I like this guy but own these speakers and they sound excellent.. the slight bump in that range can easily be adjusted and to spend that kind of money..these are literally some of the best sounding speakers on the market at the price. Totally right in thinking this is not an upgrade that makes any sense.
I’ve been into audio for over 40 years plus. Along the way I’ve owned a number of Kef speakers and listened to many more. Some very good, some not quite so good. I’ve never experienced a Kef speaker, or any other speaker for that matter sound like ‘nails along chop boards’. I’d be interested to learn what your source recording and source components were, to create that sound effect? Or, maybe you were grossly over exaggerating the issue for maximum detrimental effect.
I'd say it was a bit of an exaggeration and also partially just the perspective of someone who is used to listening to really high quality speakers. I own the Q150s and listen to them every day (mostly TV/movies, some music) and I definitely wouldn't say they sound as bad as he made them seem. However, I also don't currently own any better speakers, so my perspective is just that of someone who is used to cheaper speakers. He's right about the cabinet resonance. These things are not built very solid at all. His measurements in the 200Hz-1kHz range also match mine, so I agree it's not a very flat frequency response. Basically, they're not on the level of really good speakers, but they're not terrible either.
@@nathan518 in one of my hifi systems, I have a pair of Kefs much higher up im the range. I don’t own any measuring equipment other than my ears, which is what actually what matters. But according to the to the measurements made on the same speakers by the critics at Steriophile magazine, the frequency response is amazingly flat.
As regards cabinet resonance, take a butchers at Danny’s review of the Kef LS50, where he compares the cabinets to solid rock.
I’m all for constructive criticism of another manufacturer’s product, but going all out to be negatively destructive serves no real world useful function.
My work colleague has been dating the same girl for the last 6 months. She’s a pleasant enough girl. Not the type of girl that ‘looks wise’ would grab my attention, or stand out from the crowd, but I would never label her as gross or ugly.
I think you get my point.
@@howardskeivys4184 Yeah I get your point. The words he used to describe the speakers were overly harsh. I know he was using hyperbole to make a point, but it's not great that he wasn't accurately describing the sound of the speaker.
Also, I'd bet that the differences in measurements between me and Danny and Stereophile were due to the room they were measured in. That's a good reminder why measurements can't really tell you how a speaker will sound in your own room.
@@nathan518 I think that Steriophile use an anechoic chamber for their measurements. Danny from GR Research frequently claims his room is ‘perfectly’ acoustically treated. In the real world there is no such thing as perfect and I’m not the foremost advocate of room treatment. I think it’s often a costly and unnecessary solution to a trivial issue.
He doesn't listen to the speakers before making these adjustments. I know, absolutely wild. It's true, he is very vocal about doing this. Kinda puts some things into perspective.
Danny, if you read this: there is more to the sound of a speaker than can be measured by FR and CSD. You should really listen to the speakers.
Cheezy resistors measure the same as non-cheezy audiophile resistors but they sound totally different. LOL.
Exactly so the science of measurements has not yet figured out how to quantify everything of what you hear.
Yup,. That's what Ricks been saying and my experience for the past 40 years, along with caps and inductors
@@jeffh.6223 and with inductors the frequency response also varies according to shape and winding qualities. more to it than just how they measure.
@@chubbyballsack Yes, quality of parts is huge in my experience, not only in transients but tonal quality...I can even still hear differences with my 50% loss in one ear
@@jeffh.6223 and my wife can hear the difference from the kitchen
could you provide some upgrade advises for KEF R3 and R5 ?
This would be great, I have some R3 and I feel there is something missing around 1K and the HF can be a little sharp. Would send one of mine in but based in the UK.
Someone has to send him their pair to measure and experiment with.
Start with the no-Rez. I’d consider it for my KEF R300, but moved to Magnepan. Hardly use the KEF these days
A lot drivers have problems around 1-1.5k due to cone edge resonance. Basically the surround has different acoustic impedance and the wave is reflected back creating this kind of a glitch in freq resp. A lot of softer cones like paper, polypropylene have this issue. A special edge structure/profile, surround design like the one from Purifi minimizes the issues. Also Erin mentioned something about the Kef coax when he measured it some time ago.
You summed it up by saying this a ‘budget speaker’. I would not buy a budget speaker then spend £259 to potentially improve it. I would use that £259 to buy a more expensive speaker!
I think it would be better to just grab a MiniDSP 2x4 HD instead of tossing a new crossover in. $200ish and much more expandable use cases with Dirac Live upgradeability and can easily be used again and again and again if you upgrade/swap speakers.
My Q150s don't measure anything like the measurements shown here but that stuff can be very room dependent or a matter of how it was measured. I use mine at a desk and the only problem area is a dip at 800Hz that is simple to fix with DSP.
That would still level the crappy parts in the signal path and the Mini DSP will suck the life out of them (whatever is left). That would be a horrible combination.
@@dannyrichie9743 I like the speaker in your profile pic.
Personally I don't see DSP sucking the life out of my speakers. But that could be because I'm not at a specific tier yet.
I know the MiniDSP 2x4HD isn't the prettiest measuring DSP on paper. But if my ears can't hear a difference is there a difference?
It's all preference in the end. You've heard the difference and can't go back I'm sure. I don't have an ear for that level of detail.
@@JoshM7 There are good DSP devices, however, when the D/A converter, analog output stage, and power supply is about equal to a a 30 year old CD player sold at Walmart, then there is going to be limitations.
When you mention no-res is that similar to dynamat or other rubberized film?
I would assume a sticky mass barrier/tile, bit maybe his version. But I'd like to know too, checked the website didn't find it.
Most be top secret product - straight from US Navy submarines
Man the way you move that speaker cabinet around it’s so light ( cheap cheesy design low quality ) like it’s made out of cardboard.
I know when I build a speaker cabinet and every time somebody goes to pick it up they asked me if it’s built out of lead lol 😂🤣
To be fair, that is one of their cheapest models. Not saying it's justified, but to keep it in mind. I own a pair of KEF LS50's by KEF and the cabinet is pretty well built.
@@zeke937 Yes I’m well aware of the speakers that are offered in the big box stores off the shelf cabinet designs.
I built my Back Loaded Horn full range speaker just the cabinet without the speaker driver installed weighed 89 pound each
Plans for the Q350?
I never plan to upgrade anything. I just work on what is sent in.
Have you ever modded Kef R3’s?
I'm wondering? What price point and what brand of speaker that passes GR with no mods?
Those are the type of speakers that are not sent in for upgrades.
Can you upgrade a powered speakers?
I can upgrade them to passive models.