Great song! These comparisons are really instructive and are especially noticeable on "real" music. I'd love to see these become part of a typical review.
Congratulations. This is best explanation and examples of measured characteristics versus room interaction and balance that I have ever seen and heard. Keep up the great work Erin.
Too bad they're a manually recreated approximation using anechoic curves though. I would really love a standardized room listening setup with a good ORTF or OSS/Schneider Disk configuration (I don't like dummy heads for this) to capture the actual behaviour of different speakers in the same room to compare. He could share the impulse responses so people can listen to their own music through it. I think it can be done, but the hardest part might be to commit to a room for that purpose lol.
@@everope I love binaurals to assess soundstage and imaging - and it's more enjoyable certainly, but I think what Erin is doing here is a better way to assess tonality.
This is hands down the best audiophile channel around, the objectiveness and the knowledge of this guy is beyond. Every video i watch i learn so much. Im so glad i found this channel. Thank you. Your are pure gold
The Original is REALLY good! Jokes aside I love this way of comparing speakers. Going back and fourth between the original recording and how the different speakers performs it. For me it speaks volumes about what sound one can expect. Great work Erin!
Amazing Video. You are the man. This is one of the best (possible the best) speaker videos I have ever seen. I never comment but this is impressive, you speaker tonality approximations are spot on. I recently auditioned the LS50 Meta vs the R3 Meta and literally heard the same differences in your approximation examples. Needless the say, I ended up buying the R3 Meta. in my in home comparison against Genelec 8040s and studio headphones I found them to be ULTRA close to "source" (studio equipment) as your audio demonstrates. during auditioning, compared to the R3, I found the LS50 meta a bit dull tonality wise and less enveloping as you described. That is why I went with the R3. Even in the show room the R3 was very controlled and "duller" than Martin logan, B+Ws, needless to say I found those too bright (similar to your ML example). You data and approximations matched my observations pretty much exactly. I think you should continue making these tonality approximation comparisons. Thanks for making awesome and objective videos, you saved me time. Listen to ERIN, no fluff, objective and accurate.
I’ve had SourcePoint 8s, R3 metas and the LS50 meta in my small treated room. I thought I wanted the extra dynamics from SP8s and R3, but it wasn’t enough to overcome how the LS50s absolutely disappear in the room. I kept the ls50s. To me that’s their biggest trick and what sets them apart from a lot of other speakers. It’s probably hard to convey that via measurements though. Amazing content as always, Erin!
Thing is though as he said that what we heard is only the on axis relative differences between the speakers and original recording. That difference is easily made up for with an EQ, ie you can tailor your that direct sound how you want it to sound (that EQ which is also a great way to fix your room modes). Then what matters is the dispersion and how they behave in your particular room and what you prefer, if you want more reverb which can make the soundstage bigger but the imagine (how easily you can pinpoint each sound between the speakers) a bit more unprecise then you want the speakers that disperse wider, or if you want a more precise and detailed sound but that sounds a bit less big then you want a speaker that disperses less. So if you want the later then the Klipsch with it's horn or R3 Meta is probably the best with the LS50 Meta close behind, and if you want the first the Elac or Sonus is the way to go.
I know you generally aren't a fan of doing sound comparisons on TH-cam but I still find it extremely valuable to hear the differences between speakers, even if through a terrible medium. I hope you continue to include them in your future videos
Great video Erin.. 👏As a quite "pragmatic" retired RF engineer that started in audio back in the old analog days, lol, I highly approve. Let's just hope the data naysayers can soften, realizing that the more informed, the better, and that physical reality is never binary. 😉 You are doing a great service here. Kudos to you, kindred spirit.
What a great video - you really did a nice job of explaining why the LS50 sounds the way it does to some folks and comparing it to similar speakers. Very helpful!
Awesome video! Love this way of comparing speakers with emphasis on the fact that the main benefit is your commentary. I am looking at a pair of LS50 meta or other KEF in the future.
This video lesson has been so helpful in learning basic speaker performance characteristics. Group comparison is so useful in displaying the differences. Thank you!
I lived with the LS50 for 6 months, and liked em very well, then got 2 more sets including the meta (stick with the original and save some, minor differences). The LS50 is a perfect class A near field listener (40-70 range) and suited for a small room, appreciate them for what they are and what application their best suited for and then you'll realize their quite good.
Great video, Erin. Another reason I've heard for people not rating the LS50 is that they do need sufficient power and some entry-level amps don't match well.
Pleased to learn that I am dedicated 😂😂. I did stay to the end…..Well done Erin…..so clearly defined and articulated. Love the graphs. Thanks as always.
This makes *so* much more sense than the audiophile "emotional impact" and "connection" nonsense. I own a pair of B&W and understand how they are bright. But their radiation makes me coming back for more. The whole room comes alive. I do want to tame their highs by learning from videos like these.
Except for the front speakers I have now 6 LS 50 Metas in my surround setup. The imaging is just so good, a huge upgrade to my former speakers. Here in Germany you can get a used pair in mint condition for around 700 Euro. That's exceptional value.
With headphones on my iPhone over TH-cam, at 71 yo, couldn’t tell a difference on the sound clips. Your analysis was cogent, and made a lot of sense. I have several pairs of speakers between two sound systems (and rooms), and I certainly find it true that it is ‘speakers in a room’ that we actually hear, not so much the speaker itself, which is why positioning the speaker in the room can make such a difference, as well as which speaker we put in a certain room, as your video suggests. Appreciated your effort on this one. I’ve been a fan of yours for a while now, this kind of content only solidified your trout station as a go to speaker guy. Thanks.
The big knock for me on the LS50M is they are somewhat SPL limited. Love the compare / contrast format. It really brings home how the sound of a speaker correlates with the data. This vid is also very helpful in terms of quantifying my preferences so I know what data to look for when evaluating a potential purchase.
@@VoltLover00 Agreed, def not full range speakers, so these require a sub below ~50hz (I would cross them over at 80hz-100hz). In Erin's original review, these have some compression below 100hz at high peak volumes, and multi-tone distortion is a bit high at peak volumes. These are great in a relatively small room, but may have some SPL challenges in a bigger room depending on desired listening volume. They would make great surrounds in a big room though.
@@fencerrandy I use the LS 50 Meta with the Kef KC62 Sub crossed around 100hz, depending on the room. I would only consider the Metas with the addition of the sub, I was not content with them before I bought the sub, so now its a $3k speaker system. In my opinion and my room the combo is a slam dunk but you have to stay below mid 90 SPL.
I was surprised. I was listening to this on my phone's speakers and was still able to identify the differences between these speakers. Brightness grabs your attention but it also doesn't let it go. I don't like it, but I'm sure it sells speakers.
@MrChompenstein Same...I first watched and listened to this video on my uber thin 8" tablet as I wasn't really expecting the sound samples to be included. Even with that, the relative differences between all of the speakers in the sound samples were obvious, and like others noted, the KEF R3 Meta seemed to sound most similar to the original source. Listening to it again on good headphones only reconfirmed what I had initially heard through the tiny tablet speakers, though differences in the lower midbass and bass did become more apparent with the cans. Cheers
Finally got to the end of this video and I must say, thank you Erin. An excellent well-rounded tutorial. People in forums should link this video in educational threads about speakers. I will.
I love the LS 50 II with the KC 62 subwoofer. Small, versatile, very powerful. Neutral, fast, nice look. A modern speaker. The only thing I miss is the input for an external storage drive. The streaming app is „ok“, but nothing to write home about. AirPlay is the way to go for me. The app gives you the opportunity to adjust all settings from the listening position.
On the sound clip comparison, it's hard to tell differences between the speakers when the clip itself is not the same 4-5 bars of music for each sample. The song goes from intro to vocals to instruments and back again, so one speaker we're hearing vocals and the next we're hearing guitars. I'd suggest, if you're going to do this, play 10 seconds of a selected track for the original, then the same 10 seconds for the first speaker, then the same 10 seconds for the original again, then the same 10 seconds for the next speaker, and so on. Yeah, it's repetitive but that's going to provide a much better basis for comparison. Otherwise, great video.
Also, there're 2 other factors worth considering: 1. Sample quality of the clip played on this video. I play this video on my setup and same song on Qobuz, sound is different. 2. Is current setup neutral or neutral enough to highlight what's demo in this video?
What a great way of explaining/ showing the differences between these various speakers (now I know why I like what I like). Thanks again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great explanation and after 40-years of being a dedicated listener of high end equipment I am still learning why I like some speakers and don’t like others. I have the LS50W2 and LS60 with the KEF 92 sub and they have been a very good speakers for me. My next speaker is going to be a reference speaker and I have narrowed it down to about 2-3 speakers on my short list.
I currently have LS50W and KC62 and am on the verge of buying the LS60 as I have heard it is a huge upgrade, especially in a larger room. But I have one big question I can’t find anywhere. The LS50 really only sounds great at moderate to high volumes in my opinion (50 or above) and this is too loud for night listening where I live. Does the LS60 improve on this? If you could answer this you will be my hero, and I appreciate your time!
@@atlas944 I think I know what you mean and it feel like you are touching on dynamics at lower volumes. I have the LS50W2 speakers for a near field application at my work desk and ever so slightly toed in and I am in a smaller 12 x 1 foot room with room treatments. I also have the speakers on stands so the are at ear level. I do feel like they come alive more at higher volume and I do not think that the LS60s are that much different. Both speakers at using the Kef KF92 and set up through the app. I run the speakers with more bass at a +3 and they are dialed in with the correct distances. If I wanted something with more dynamics I would personally get the Mofi 888 speakers and even the Mofi SourcePoint 10 will have that dynamic feel you might be looking for with the right amp. I wanted to neutral speakers and I play with the settings depending on the music I like listening to. I use the Roon server with clean music and it all plays a roll in sounding great.
Excellent analysis here. I personally love the LS50 Meta, and I use a pair with KC-62 in a reflective environment with digital room correction to great effect...the narrow radiation pattern is very helpful in this case, the sound is definitely well-focused to the listening area. In a bigger and more open environment, I would definitely go bigger, but these are great for my scenario.
fantastic comparison... the problem is folks are already listening with headphones or computer speakers that have the sound super altered!! listening here with a pair of very neutral Neumann KH310 monitors. all differences were pretty obvious and very interesting and revealing! thanks!
@themastroiannis Just as a side note, I first watched and listened to this video on my 8" tablet. Even with that, the relative differences between all of the speakers were obvious, and like others noted, the KEF R3 Meta sounded most similar to the original source. :man_shrugging: (I've owned the original Neumann KH120A since 2013)
Thanks for the note on room size vs speaker radiation width! It’s a very important point and will influence my decision on speaker upgrades for my narrow home theater.
I agree with your analysis. I own (among many others) The Elac Debut Reference 62. I was a professional audio engineer for many years, and the DBR6s really remind me of studio monitors. They are quite flat and I do enjoy that sound very much.
Awesome video Erin It really enlightens me to how Randy thinks I’m one of those crazy people that bought Ls50 meta without ever hearing them just based upon reviews and research now I have heard them alongside the LS 60s and the blade twos I’ve also heard some of the R line For me I prefer the LS50 and the blades based on the coherency. This is what makes LS 50 so special in its price class. I would like to hear the mofi source point stuff. But unless Kef came out with a 8 inch uni que LS speaker I have no reason to upgrade Unless I win the lottery. I hope to build some css bass modules for them. So I can get that poor man’s blade effect.
Great video. I would have skipped the sound comparisons (you hear it transformed by your own amp + speaker), but the response graphs serve that purpose. One may think....graphs are also affected by amp and room, and on and on......
Great video, this is the best explanation I have seen. Was an owner of LS50 Meta and looking to upgrade, I was picking between R3 Meta and M126be for about the same price, ultimately picked M126be and very happy about it. Thank you for the great work.👍
This was a good one. The presentation of the in room measurements of the various speakers was very good. I would say if -6 dB is what would be a good cutoff for the radiation pattern in your opinion, decrease the number of colors in the plot to make the presentation more clear.
Ppl hear differently and theres many different factors why. I really learned about this ever since I got into IEMs. Tuning/sound profiles vary from person to person. What one person likes the next person might dislike.
Superb video! Thank you Erin. I would also add reasons why the KEF LS50 meta isn't liked by all: - Sensitivity is low. If you do quick comparison, it'll sound worse than others just because the volume will be lower. Remember to level match ! - Impedance is also kind of low. The speaker needs a beefy amplifier to play loud. If some people upgraded their speakers but not their amplifier yet, the LS50 may not sound all that good. - The bass response start to drop earlier than other "typical" bookshelf speakers. If you want a small speakers with lots of punch, this is not it.
Excellent video, Erin! Having worked in audio marketing for about a decade I will add one aspect - most of the people out there haven't heard the LS50/LS50M. I bought my LS50 about 10 years ago when it first appeared and I bought it semi-blind, after a single in-store demo. The problem is that the LS50 looks pretty different to most speakers out there. Sure, nowadays it's hardly the strangest speaker out there but at the time the OG Blade and the LS50 were standouts. When I'm talking to companies which I consult, I always tell them - guys, most people will end up considering a blind buy. Can the customer get the right expectations of how your speaker will sound by looking at it? Big woofers communicate big bass, metal drivers will deceive people into hearing a metallic timbre. You know - like silver cables sound bright and copper - earthy. Our brains are hardwired into making associations and you can't really turn it off. On top of just being old fashioned contrarian, people will hate the LS50 because it looks strange. P.S. Is it me or the LS50 liked high quality amplification? I always ended up liking the wireless version more because people didn't have to shell big bucks for an amp to get the LS50 to stretch its legs.
@@VoltLover00 Nowadays I'd probably recommend an nCore or better Class-D for them. Small speakers are notorious for being hard to drive due to their low sensitivity.
As part of a slow (because money) upgrade of my whole hifi I’m currently using my LS50meta with an Accuphase amplifier and Rega P10. And I’m struggling to justify upgrading the speakers. The higher quality amp is making the little Kefs sound incredible.
I second the amplification advice, I had a weak amp for my v1 ls50s that broke. The replacement amp with more power and umph made a thinness in the sound disappear. I wonder if a lot of people with a wrong combination dislike it because of that
I hope you start doing the track comparision going forward. That was great to hear the difference and then seeing why we heard what we heard. Amazing review, explination and production.
I owned the LS-50 Meta for awhile, but sold them. Excellent speakers, with terrific imaging, but for me they were too small. Just not enough output for a medium to large room. Now I rock the R3 Meta, which I LOVE.....
I’m in the same boat. I now have a much larger room than I did when I bought the LS50 meta. Is the R3 really that much more room filling? I was looking at the super Lintons and some others and hadn’t thought about the R3s
@@Filtersloth I think the R3 Metas do a great job of filling a medium sized room. But if your room is LARGE, then the Super Lintons would make more sense. I wouldn't discount the "regular" Lintons either....both are large enough to fill a big space.
I have them in a large room on top of vintage 1980s tower speakers instead of stands. The old towers (that cost me €200 for a pair in good condition) and new LS50 Metas complement each other perfectly. A nice budget solution.
@ it’s around 10m x 7m x 2.7m high. And has stairways that lead up and down. So it’s not huge, but I think the LS50 meta aren’t really suited to it. But they still sound great when sitting close in the sweet spot. I also have a sub, which helps. Yeah I think I’ll look into the Lintons as well, they are half the price. But apparently the super Lintons work well close to a wall, and these will be like a foot from a wall most likely
Great video as always,fantastic work. I considered most of these but instead got arendal 1961 towers for a close out price of 1k and I got them based on your reviews!
Great job with the comparison. Very informative for those seeking understanding. I would love to try the R3 Metas, but I tried the first version and there was a massive resonance in my room. I'm too gun shy to take that gamble again. Highly enjoying my LS50 Metas, tho.
Erin, on spot explanations, thank you. By the way, KEF R3 Meta looks and sounds much like an ideal loudspeaker among all these speakers. Also my preference is towards more linear and controlled loudspeakers like LS50 and R3. Best wishes.
This video found its way on my feed. What I find interesting is that playing these sound clips is greatly going to be influenced on what system we are listening on. I was listening on some cheap earbuds and each sample sounded exactly the same to me. This leads me to also think since everyone’s ear sound profile is different I will never hear exactly what others are hearing.
This Elac's and Elac's overall are more or less great. Just give them a really good amp with strong electrical current (or some affordable monoblocks + active preamp), if you want to hear how they can sing and punch ;)
They’re good speakers for the price. And with EQ, the tone or voicing can be adjusted to your preference. EQ has certainly changed the equation for speakers. Price and looks are more of the focus now, assuming the speaker is competent and can be EQd to the desired sound.
Love the comparisons Erin, thank you for your efforts. Both Kefs and the Lumina II were the winners for my ear. That Martin Logan profile was a spicy meatball. Man they're so cool though...
I bought it when it came out. I didn't really hate it, but I really didn't like it. Returned it within a week. The experience thaught me a lot about what I want in speakers.
Thanks Erin, a very useful video comparison. My ears still don’t deceive me 😂. I will keep my DBR62, I’m very happy with how they sound in my environment.
It looks like the KEF could be fixed just with an off axial shift of the tweeter. Something in the crossover is shifting the axial rotation of the drivers just enough for there to be slight interference on the driver crossover point. I did hear that slight hollowness in the mid-range, but it was the speaker that change from the original the least.
Very nice review. And I agree with other viewers, the R3 Meta sounded the most like the original. Overall I was surprised how small the differences were. Perhaps a bit longer clips would be better to hear differences? Any chance we could hear the same clips your new reference speaker (Audio First Fidelia)?
Good work. I use the LS50 metas in my study, on stands about 35" out from the wall..lots of bookshelves on the walls. This is mainly a near field setup (or midfield when I recline my chair). I'd call it fairly neutral in this arrangement, not bright, but detailed. I do often wonder how the KEF sub would fill out the bottom nicely...maybe a future add. This system works great for what it is intended to be; but it is quite a contrast to my treated listening room where I use Zu DW6 Superflys or the signature addition Buchardt s400 MKIIs I use.
Best gear channel on the net. I'm not big on reviewers, otherwise. I've discovered that I can make do with any reasonably neutral speaker available today. Sub woofers has only made this easier. Even my little LSR305 at work are good enough. I even enjoyed my HK Soundsticksii when my house stereo finally died and put off buying gear for 5 years because of those. Then I had a RCA all-in-one shelf system with the 5 disc changer built in. I had a lot of fun with that and it was under $200 at Kmart and it rocked. I don't take the budget stuff for granted now because back in the'60s, '70s and '80s, budget gear was absolutely horrible. I have been in and out of budget thru higher end gear for decades. All I had to be was without a system for a spell to make me appreciate even the most minimalist setups as long as they had reasonably low audible distortion and were powerful enough. Even now that I have a much more capable main system, I really enjoy the little WIIM amp in my bedroom even going right from the main system to it.
Cool idea for a video! Much more interesting than just another speaker measured (although that has value too). I'm a new LS50 Meta owner. Got them on sale for $1000, so I'm happy about that. I had been used to more attack but am not minding their more laid back presentation. I have a relatively narrow room so I'm getting a lot of reflection from the side walls which makes the soundstage much wider than the speakers placement. But still good imaging. Digging them thus far!
Really great video! Now a comparison with the Mofi Sourcepoint 8 would be great ❤ I'm still unsure to buy them - I'm looking for more dynamics. Bass is no issue as I have the crossover at 140hz.
The Focal speakers I like aren't as tipped up on top as the Klipsch RP, Martin Logan, or B&Ws, but a bit more like the Sonus Fabers. I really like the Focal Aria 906.
Got mine gently used 50% off retail. Knowing nothing about them I watched your original review and jumped on them. Running in secondary setup with WiiM ultra, Kenwood ka7100, Kenwood kp990… perfect for my needs. Also run a SVS pc2000 sub in the setup. Will spare my earpinions but can say I’m done shopping for bookshelves with this arrangement.
The song used in this video is: “A Bitter Love” by Tia Moors. You can find it via Epidemic Sound here:
www.epidemicsound.com/track/UdgrO9Pm1G/
The Technics SB-C700, now discontinued was a direct competitor, measured great and sounded great. Kef ls50 sucks man.
theres another problem with using track comparisons. TH-cam doesnt support high res audio as you know. it distorts the audio
instantly shazamed the song while watching your video. I love your work btw! You're awesome my dude!
Great song! These comparisons are really instructive and are especially noticeable on "real" music. I'd love to see these become part of a typical review.
Erin I just ordered a q6 center channel, do you want me to send it to you for measurements/ review? I should get it by the 9th dec
this is one of the few trustworthy audiophile channels. Keep up the good work mate
Congratulations. This is best explanation and examples of measured characteristics versus room interaction and balance that I have ever seen and heard. Keep up the great work Erin.
This is such a good way of presenting speakers so that people can start digesting the data better and relate it to how the speakers sound different.
Your reviews are continously getting better everyday. You literally take us to the tesing room and understand better whats going. Love this. ❤❤🎉🎉
I appreciate that!
No one else is doing this.
Thank you for that.
These comparative sound clips are quickly becoming the new gold standard of reviews (in my mind).
Love them too bits too❤
Agreed. The amount of information (of that one aspect among many, sure) gained in just a few seconds is immense
Agreed!
Too bad they're a manually recreated approximation using anechoic curves though. I would really love a standardized room listening setup with a good ORTF or OSS/Schneider Disk configuration (I don't like dummy heads for this) to capture the actual behaviour of different speakers in the same room to compare. He could share the impulse responses so people can listen to their own music through it. I think it can be done, but the hardest part might be to commit to a room for that purpose lol.
@@everope I love binaurals to assess soundstage and imaging - and it's more enjoyable certainly, but I think what Erin is doing here is a better way to assess tonality.
This was the best comparison video I've seen. Very well done!
Wow, thanks!
This is hands down the best audiophile channel around, the objectiveness and the knowledge of this guy is beyond. Every video i watch i learn so much. Im so glad i found this channel.
Thank you. Your are pure gold
The Original is REALLY good! Jokes aside I love this way of comparing speakers. Going back and fourth between the original recording and how the different speakers performs it. For me it speaks volumes about what sound one can expect. Great work Erin!
The original is just sooooo transparent! 😂
But the original is also played through some kind of speakers. Which?
what a fantastic review and format! This may be my favorite so far in conveying what speakers do, how they vary in their ability to reproduce music.
Amazing Video. You are the man. This is one of the best (possible the best) speaker videos I have ever seen. I never comment but this is impressive, you speaker tonality approximations are spot on.
I recently auditioned the LS50 Meta vs the R3 Meta and literally heard the same differences in your approximation examples. Needless the say, I ended up buying the R3 Meta. in my in home comparison against Genelec 8040s and studio headphones I found them to be ULTRA close to "source" (studio equipment) as your audio demonstrates.
during auditioning, compared to the R3, I found the LS50 meta a bit dull tonality wise and less enveloping as you described. That is why I went with the R3. Even in the show room the R3 was very controlled and "duller" than Martin logan, B+Ws, needless to say I found those too bright (similar to your ML example). You data and approximations matched my observations pretty much exactly.
I think you should continue making these tonality approximation comparisons.
Thanks for making awesome and objective videos, you saved me time.
Listen to ERIN, no fluff, objective and accurate.
The way you compare and make us understand is incredible 👍👍
Glad to hear that!
What an excellent video, so well demonstrated and explained with factual info. One of the best speaker discussion videos I’ve seen.
I’ve had SourcePoint 8s, R3 metas and the LS50 meta in my small treated room. I thought I wanted the extra dynamics from SP8s and R3, but it wasn’t enough to overcome how the LS50s absolutely disappear in the room. I kept the ls50s. To me that’s their biggest trick and what sets them apart from a lot of other speakers. It’s probably hard to convey that via measurements though.
Amazing content as always, Erin!
funky room as the data doesn't favor the ls50s... you love dynamics but they have a pronounced midrange dip
The KEF R3 Meta is easily the best sounding speaker in this comparison. Great job here, Erin!
I agree. Wow can I ever hear the tweeter on that Logan. Spicy!
@@danab7472 I had to play that again I couldn't believe my ears... spicy heh you're polite
I also felt that the R3 meta was the best sounding speaker.
Thing is though as he said that what we heard is only the on axis relative differences between the speakers and original recording. That difference is easily made up for with an EQ, ie you can tailor your that direct sound how you want it to sound (that EQ which is also a great way to fix your room modes).
Then what matters is the dispersion and how they behave in your particular room and what you prefer, if you want more reverb which can make the soundstage bigger but the imagine (how easily you can pinpoint each sound between the speakers) a bit more unprecise then you want the speakers that disperse wider, or if you want a more precise and detailed sound but that sounds a bit less big then you want a speaker that disperses less.
So if you want the later then the Klipsch with it's horn or R3 Meta is probably the best with the LS50 Meta close behind, and if you want the first the Elac or Sonus is the way to go.
@@gurratell7326 whoever programmed you needs a refresher course.
I know you generally aren't a fan of doing sound comparisons on TH-cam but I still find it extremely valuable to hear the differences between speakers, even if through a terrible medium. I hope you continue to include them in your future videos
Incredible detail and clear explanation, as always. Thank you for all your hard work!
Great video Erin.. 👏As a quite "pragmatic" retired RF engineer that started in audio back in the old analog days, lol,
I highly approve. Let's just hope the data naysayers can soften, realizing that the more informed, the better, and that physical reality is never binary. 😉
You are doing a great service here. Kudos to you, kindred spirit.
What a great video - you really did a nice job of explaining why the LS50 sounds the way it does to some folks and comparing it to similar speakers. Very helpful!
Glad it was helpful!
Great video Erin. It's very good at explaining to people how measurements relate to the sound of a speaker.
Great video Erin! Spot on... Great insights into why speakers sound the way they do.
Awesome video! Love this way of comparing speakers with emphasis on the fact that the main benefit is your commentary. I am looking at a pair of LS50 meta or other KEF in the future.
It's the most rewarding video on audio gear I watched on TH-cam! Thanks so much!!!
As a non audiophile, just came here to say that if you have KEF LS50s that you hate, you can send them to me for disposal. I'll even pay postage. 😂
haha, I've got some, no WAY you're having them! Merry Xmas!
This video lesson has been so helpful in learning basic speaker performance characteristics. Group comparison is so useful in displaying the differences. Thank you!
The comparison sound clips are some of the best things to ever happen to audio reviews. Amazing stuff as always.
I lived with the LS50 for 6 months, and liked em very well, then got 2 more sets including the meta (stick with the original and save some, minor differences). The LS50 is a perfect class A near field listener (40-70 range) and suited for a small room, appreciate them for what they are and what application their best suited for and then you'll realize their quite good.
Great video, Erin. Another reason I've heard for people not rating the LS50 is that they do need sufficient power and some entry-level amps don't match well.
Pleased to learn that I am dedicated 😂😂. I did stay to the end…..Well done Erin…..so clearly defined and articulated. Love the graphs. Thanks as always.
Thanks for sticking around!
This makes *so* much more sense than the audiophile "emotional impact" and "connection" nonsense. I own a pair of B&W and understand how they are bright. But their radiation makes me coming back for more. The whole room comes alive. I do want to tame their highs by learning from videos like these.
Except for the front speakers I have now 6 LS 50 Metas in my surround setup. The imaging is just so good, a huge upgrade to my former speakers. Here in Germany you can get a used pair in mint condition for around 700 Euro. That's exceptional value.
Sounds like a really good setup!
@@ErinsAudioCorner It better should be. I bought all speakers after your reviews! 🙂
@ uh-oh!!!
Thanks for all you do. Especially this one. I have wondered why some have such dislike. To each their own but the LS 50 Meta takes hits.
This is some of your best work. Thank you for what you're doing for this entire hobby worldwide!
Thanks, I appreciate it!
oh man, this is so good. Erin thank you so much for being thorough and patient. You are THE BEST
With headphones on my iPhone over TH-cam, at 71 yo, couldn’t tell a difference on the sound clips. Your analysis was cogent, and made a lot of sense. I have several pairs of speakers between two sound systems (and rooms), and I certainly find it true that it is ‘speakers in a room’ that we actually hear, not so much the speaker itself, which is why positioning the speaker in the room can make such a difference, as well as which speaker we put in a certain room, as your video suggests. Appreciated your effort on this one. I’ve been a fan of yours for a while now, this kind of content only solidified your trout station as a go to speaker guy. Thanks.
The big knock for me on the LS50M is they are somewhat SPL limited. Love the compare / contrast format. It really brings home how the sound of a speaker correlates with the data. This vid is also very helpful in terms of quantifying my preferences so I know what data to look for when evaluating a potential purchase.
With a subwoofer? They shouldn't be used for full range
@@VoltLover00 Agreed, def not full range speakers, so these require a sub below ~50hz (I would cross them over at 80hz-100hz). In Erin's original review, these have some compression below 100hz at high peak volumes, and multi-tone distortion is a bit high at peak volumes. These are great in a relatively small room, but may have some SPL challenges in a bigger room depending on desired listening volume. They would make great surrounds in a big room though.
@@fencerrandy I use the LS 50 Meta with the Kef KC62 Sub crossed around 100hz, depending on the room. I would only consider the Metas with the addition of the sub, I was not content with them before I bought the sub, so now its a $3k speaker system. In my opinion and my room the combo is a slam dunk but you have to stay below mid 90 SPL.
Love this video. Thank you for discussing the techy side of sound and speaker radiation.
Very little difference between original and KEF R3 hearing those sound clip, backed up by data..excellent comparison method thanks!
I was surprised. I was listening to this on my phone's speakers and was still able to identify the differences between these speakers. Brightness grabs your attention but it also doesn't let it go. I don't like it, but I'm sure it sells speakers.
I noticed the same thing listening through my iPhone. The ML and Klipsch really stood out due to the high frequency.
@MrChompenstein
Same...I first watched and listened to this video on my uber thin 8" tablet as I wasn't really expecting the sound samples to be included.
Even with that, the relative differences between all of the speakers in the sound samples were obvious, and like others noted, the KEF R3 Meta seemed to sound most similar to the original source.
Listening to it again on good headphones only reconfirmed what I had initially heard through the tiny tablet speakers, though differences in the lower midbass and bass did become more apparent with the cans.
Cheers
Finally got to the end of this video and I must say, thank you Erin. An excellent well-rounded tutorial. People in forums should link this video in educational threads about speakers. I will.
This is excellent, it is by a considerably margin the best hifi-review channel. It is knowledgeable, objective and balanced
I love the LS 50 II with the KC 62 subwoofer. Small, versatile, very powerful. Neutral, fast, nice look.
A modern speaker.
The only thing I miss is the input for an external storage drive.
The streaming app is „ok“, but nothing to write home about. AirPlay is the way to go for me.
The app gives you the opportunity to adjust all settings from the listening position.
Great review and technical explanations. Always enjoy your breakdowns.
Much appreciated!
Terrific video! I learned so much in 20 mins!
Great to hear!
On the sound clip comparison, it's hard to tell differences between the speakers when the clip itself is not the same 4-5 bars of music for each sample. The song goes from intro to vocals to instruments and back again, so one speaker we're hearing vocals and the next we're hearing guitars. I'd suggest, if you're going to do this, play 10 seconds of a selected track for the original, then the same 10 seconds for the first speaker, then the same 10 seconds for the original again, then the same 10 seconds for the next speaker, and so on. Yeah, it's repetitive but that's going to provide a much better basis for comparison. Otherwise, great video.
Also, there're 2 other factors worth considering:
1. Sample quality of the clip played on this video. I play this video on my setup and same song on Qobuz, sound is different.
2. Is current setup neutral or neutral enough to highlight what's demo in this video?
What a great way of explaining/ showing the differences between these various speakers (now I know why I like what I like). Thanks again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm glad you got something out of it!
Great explanation and after 40-years of being a dedicated listener of high end equipment I am still learning why I like some speakers and don’t like others. I have the LS50W2 and LS60 with the KEF 92 sub and they have been a very good speakers for me. My next speaker is going to be a reference speaker and I have narrowed it down to about 2-3 speakers on my short list.
I currently have LS50W and KC62 and am on the verge of buying the LS60 as I have heard it is a huge upgrade, especially in a larger room. But I have one big question I can’t find anywhere. The LS50 really only sounds great at moderate to high volumes in my opinion (50 or above) and this is too loud for night listening where I live. Does the LS60 improve on this? If you could answer this you will be my hero, and I appreciate your time!
@@atlas944 I think I know what you mean and it feel like you are touching on dynamics at lower volumes. I have the LS50W2 speakers for a near field application at my work desk and ever so slightly toed in and I am in a smaller 12 x 1 foot room with room treatments. I also have the speakers on stands so the are at ear level. I do feel like they come alive more at higher volume and I do not think that the LS60s are that much different. Both speakers at using the Kef KF92 and set up through the app. I run the speakers with more bass at a +3 and they are dialed in with the correct distances. If I wanted something with more dynamics I would personally get the Mofi 888 speakers and even the Mofi SourcePoint 10 will have that dynamic feel you might be looking for with the right amp. I wanted to neutral speakers and I play with the settings depending on the music I like listening to. I use the Roon server with clean music and it all plays a roll in sounding great.
Erin has the best audio channel on TH-cam, by far.
I appreciate the kind words.
Excellent analysis here. I personally love the LS50 Meta, and I use a pair with KC-62 in a reflective environment with digital room correction to great effect...the narrow radiation pattern is very helpful in this case, the sound is definitely well-focused to the listening area. In a bigger and more open environment, I would definitely go bigger, but these are great for my scenario.
fantastic comparison... the problem is folks are already listening with headphones or computer speakers that have the sound super altered!! listening here with a pair of very neutral Neumann KH310 monitors. all differences were pretty obvious and very interesting and revealing! thanks!
@themastroiannis
Just as a side note, I first watched and listened to this video on my 8" tablet.
Even with that, the relative differences between all of the speakers were obvious, and like others noted, the KEF R3 Meta sounded most similar to the original source. :man_shrugging:
(I've owned the original Neumann KH120A since 2013)
This is the soundclip video we needed for a long ass time
Thanks for the note on room size vs speaker radiation width! It’s a very important point and will influence my decision on speaker upgrades for my narrow home theater.
I agree with your analysis. I own (among many others) The Elac Debut Reference 62. I was a professional audio engineer for many years, and the DBR6s really remind me of studio monitors. They are quite flat and I do enjoy that sound very much.
Awesome video Erin It really enlightens me to how Randy thinks I’m one of those crazy people that bought Ls50 meta without ever hearing them just based upon reviews and research now I have heard them alongside the LS 60s and the blade twos I’ve also heard some of the R line For me I prefer the LS50 and the blades based on the coherency. This is what makes LS 50 so special in its price class. I would like to hear the mofi source point stuff. But unless Kef came out with a 8 inch uni que LS speaker I have no reason to upgrade Unless I win the lottery. I hope to build some css bass modules for them. So I can get that poor man’s blade effect.
I like the sound / data comparison in your test. I think measurements are useful in explaining why you hear what hear.
Amazing comparison and explanation Erin. Truly very well explained and enlightening. I’m learning so much from your channel
Glad you're enjoying the channel!
Great video. I would have skipped the sound comparisons (you hear it transformed by your own amp + speaker), but the response graphs serve that purpose. One may think....graphs are also affected by amp and room, and on and on......
Your videos help understand how sound work and make sense on what to look for, for our space
Great video, this is the best explanation I have seen. Was an owner of LS50 Meta and looking to upgrade, I was picking between R3 Meta and M126be for about the same price, ultimately picked M126be and very happy about it. Thank you for the great work.👍
The best comparison clips in the game, IMHO. Kudos my man!
Great job with the comparative sound clips. With decent headphones on it was easy to hear the tonal differences you're describing.
This was a good one. The presentation of the in room measurements of the various speakers was very good. I would say if -6 dB is what would be a good cutoff for the radiation pattern in your opinion, decrease the number of colors in the plot to make the presentation more clear.
Almost 100,000 subscribers, keep up the great work.
another great video, really enjoy your way of explaining and analyzing this stuff
Much appreciated!
Ppl hear differently and theres many different factors why. I really learned about this ever since I got into IEMs. Tuning/sound profiles vary from person to person. What one person likes the next person might dislike.
Superb video! Thank you Erin.
I would also add reasons why the KEF LS50 meta isn't liked by all:
- Sensitivity is low. If you do quick comparison, it'll sound worse than others just because the volume will be lower. Remember to level match !
- Impedance is also kind of low. The speaker needs a beefy amplifier to play loud. If some people upgraded their speakers but not their amplifier yet, the LS50 may not sound all that good.
- The bass response start to drop earlier than other "typical" bookshelf speakers. If you want a small speakers with lots of punch, this is not it.
Excellent video, Erin! Having worked in audio marketing for about a decade I will add one aspect - most of the people out there haven't heard the LS50/LS50M. I bought my LS50 about 10 years ago when it first appeared and I bought it semi-blind, after a single in-store demo. The problem is that the LS50 looks pretty different to most speakers out there. Sure, nowadays it's hardly the strangest speaker out there but at the time the OG Blade and the LS50 were standouts. When I'm talking to companies which I consult, I always tell them - guys, most people will end up considering a blind buy. Can the customer get the right expectations of how your speaker will sound by looking at it? Big woofers communicate big bass, metal drivers will deceive people into hearing a metallic timbre. You know - like silver cables sound bright and copper - earthy. Our brains are hardwired into making associations and you can't really turn it off. On top of just being old fashioned contrarian, people will hate the LS50 because it looks strange.
P.S. Is it me or the LS50 liked high quality amplification? I always ended up liking the wireless version more because people didn't have to shell big bucks for an amp to get the LS50 to stretch its legs.
I mean, a Hypex amp isn't terribly expensive, I'm driving mine on a desktop with Topping LA90 with super low distortion
@@VoltLover00 Nowadays I'd probably recommend an nCore or better Class-D for them. Small speakers are notorious for being hard to drive due to their low sensitivity.
As part of a slow (because money) upgrade of my whole hifi I’m currently using my LS50meta with an Accuphase amplifier and Rega P10. And I’m struggling to justify upgrading the speakers. The higher quality amp is making the little Kefs sound incredible.
I second the amplification advice, I had a weak amp for my v1 ls50s that broke. The replacement amp with more power and umph made a thinness in the sound disappear. I wonder if a lot of people with a wrong combination dislike it because of that
I hope you start doing the track comparision going forward. That was great to hear the difference and then seeing why we heard what we heard. Amazing review, explination and production.
I’ve been incorporating it recently and plan to keep doing it. Thanks for the feedback!
I owned the LS-50 Meta for awhile, but sold them. Excellent speakers, with terrific imaging, but for me they were too small. Just not enough output for a medium to large room. Now I rock the R3 Meta, which I LOVE.....
I’m in the same boat. I now have a much larger room than I did when I bought the LS50 meta.
Is the R3 really that much more room filling?
I was looking at the super Lintons and some others and hadn’t thought about the R3s
@@Filtersloth I think the R3 Metas do a great job of filling a medium sized room. But if your room is LARGE, then the Super Lintons would make more sense. I wouldn't discount the "regular" Lintons either....both are large enough to fill a big space.
I have them in a large room on top of vintage 1980s tower speakers instead of stands. The old towers (that cost me €200 for a pair in good condition) and new LS50 Metas complement each other perfectly. A nice budget solution.
@ it’s around 10m x 7m x 2.7m high. And has stairways that lead up and down.
So it’s not huge, but I think the LS50 meta aren’t really suited to it. But they still sound great when sitting close in the sweet spot. I also have a sub, which helps.
Yeah I think I’ll look into the Lintons as well, they are half the price. But apparently the super Lintons work well close to a wall, and these will be like a foot from a wall most likely
This is awesome scientific content. I love how you demystified the debate. Keep up the great work!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video as always,fantastic work. I considered most of these but instead got arendal 1961 towers for a close out price of 1k and I got them based on your reviews!
I bought some for the same price and have been very happy.
@@CC-xu2yz they are amazing, do you run a center with them? Thinking of getting a 1723s center but very happy with my current set-up.
I cant believe how close to the source the R3 Meta sounded! Thats crazy!
you get what you pay for ;)
Your awsome! Love my LS50 meta's, along with my KC62, kinda needs the sub "depending on the application".
Great job with the comparison. Very informative for those seeking understanding. I would love to try the R3 Metas, but I tried the first version and there was a massive resonance in my room. I'm too gun shy to take that gamble again. Highly enjoying my LS50 Metas, tho.
Erin, on spot explanations, thank you. By the way, KEF R3 Meta looks and sounds much like an ideal loudspeaker among all these speakers. Also my preference is towards more linear and controlled loudspeakers like LS50 and R3. Best wishes.
Been waiting for a video like this for years to compare my LS50m. As much I want to move up to R3m, the looks of the 50m cant beat. Thank you
This video found its way on my feed. What I find interesting is that playing these sound clips is greatly going to be influenced on what system we are listening on. I was listening on some cheap earbuds and each sample sounded exactly the same to me. This leads me to also think since everyone’s ear sound profile is different I will never hear exactly what others are hearing.
Thank you Erin for this educational video.
I am ok with my Elac’s DBR6, these measurements confirm my enjoyment, always felt they are neutral and does not feel exhausted.
I had the floorstanding version of that model and loved it. For the money that’s an incredible value in a bookshelf speaker.
The sound comparison just makes me that much happier with my recent purchase of the Elac DBR62...at $400 for the pair.
Wow that’s a great price!
Where did you find them at that price? Secondhand?
This Elac's and Elac's overall are more or less great. Just give them a really good amp with strong electrical current (or some affordable monoblocks + active preamp), if you want to hear how they can sing and punch ;)
They’re good speakers for the price. And with EQ, the tone or voicing can be adjusted to your preference. EQ has certainly changed the equation for speakers. Price and looks are more of the focus now, assuming the speaker is competent and can be EQd to the desired sound.
Love the comparisons Erin, thank you for your efforts. Both Kefs and the Lumina II were the winners for my ear. That Martin Logan profile was a spicy meatball. Man they're so cool though...
As always, I'm immensely grateful, Erin ❤
Hey, I’m grateful for the grateful!
One of the best videos I’ve seen, outstanding work!
Wow, thanks!
Thanks for a great speaker comparison. Valuable information, you’re the best!
Thanks for making education videos like this, really useful information!
I bought it when it came out. I didn't really hate it, but I really didn't like it. Returned it within a week. The experience thaught me a lot about what I want in speakers.
Thanks Erin, a very useful video comparison. My ears still don’t deceive me 😂.
I will keep my DBR62, I’m very happy with how they sound in my environment.
It looks like the KEF could be fixed just with an off axial shift of the tweeter.
Something in the crossover is shifting the axial rotation of the drivers just enough for there to be slight interference on the driver crossover point.
I did hear that slight hollowness in the mid-range, but it was the speaker that change from the original the least.
Very nice review. And I agree with other viewers, the R3 Meta sounded the most like the original. Overall I was surprised how small the differences were. Perhaps a bit longer clips would be better to hear differences? Any chance we could hear the same clips your new reference speaker (Audio First Fidelia)?
Good work. I use the LS50 metas in my study, on stands about 35" out from the wall..lots of bookshelves on the walls. This is mainly a near field setup (or midfield when I recline my chair). I'd call it fairly neutral in this arrangement, not bright, but detailed. I do often wonder how the KEF sub would fill out the bottom nicely...maybe a future add. This system works great for what it is intended to be; but it is quite a contrast to my treated listening room where I use Zu DW6 Superflys or the signature addition Buchardt s400 MKIIs I use.
Pretty awesome explanation and pretty much the reason why I don’t like bright speakers 🔥 🚀
Love this format.
Thank you!
Best gear channel on the net. I'm not big on reviewers, otherwise. I've discovered that I can make do with any reasonably neutral speaker available today. Sub woofers has only made this easier. Even my little LSR305 at work are good enough. I even enjoyed my HK Soundsticksii when my house stereo finally died and put off buying gear for 5 years because of those. Then I had a RCA all-in-one shelf system with the 5 disc changer built in. I had a lot of fun with that and it was under $200 at Kmart and it rocked. I don't take the budget stuff for granted now because back in the'60s, '70s and '80s, budget gear was absolutely horrible.
I have been in and out of budget thru higher end gear for decades. All I had to be was without a system for a spell to make me appreciate even the most minimalist setups as long as they had reasonably low audible distortion and were powerful enough. Even now that I have a much more capable main system, I really enjoy the little WIIM amp in my bedroom even going right from the main system to it.
Cool idea for a video! Much more interesting than just another speaker measured (although that has value too). I'm a new LS50 Meta owner. Got them on sale for $1000, so I'm happy about that. I had been used to more attack but am not minding their more laid back presentation. I have a relatively narrow room so I'm getting a lot of reflection from the side walls which makes the soundstage much wider than the speakers placement. But still good imaging. Digging them thus far!
congrats on your new speakers, man!
Really great video! Now a comparison with the Mofi Sourcepoint 8 would be great ❤ I'm still unsure to buy them - I'm looking for more dynamics. Bass is no issue as I have the crossover at 140hz.
The Focal speakers I like aren't as tipped up on top as the Klipsch RP, Martin Logan, or B&Ws, but a bit more like the Sonus Fabers. I really like the Focal Aria 906.
I absolutely Love my LS 50 meta ❤
Got mine gently used 50% off retail. Knowing nothing about them I watched your original review and jumped on them. Running in secondary setup with WiiM ultra, Kenwood ka7100, Kenwood kp990… perfect for my needs. Also run a SVS pc2000 sub in the setup. Will spare my earpinions but can say I’m done shopping for bookshelves with this arrangement.
Thanks! I am really hating my Kefs and this is helping me understand why.