Is This 40K Rip Off Any Good?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ย. 2023
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Amazing One Page Rules Compatible Miniatures!
Jay had the opportunity to try One Pages Rules and compares it to Warhammer 40k! We have new videos every Monday, Wednesday and Friday!
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first
Cool
OPR was made by someone who wanted to use their old models because newer editions of warhammer would leave them behind in the rules, hell the original name of OPR was literally One Page Warhammer.
In fact, One Page Rules started in 4chan do I'm surprised Jay doesn't have prior knowledge of it from 1d4chan
@@TheKsaladglad to hear a fa/tg/uy did something productive
@@TheKsalad Goes to show that /tg/ really does get shit done
@@LifeofSquidMannold /tg/ for sure, I don't think nu-/tg/ would pull something like this off
@@LifeofSquidMann This was before it became a literal den of fascists and pedophiles.
I think the main reason I'd play OPR over 40k is that they've eliminated meta chasing. List building is still a factor, but it feels less 'pay to win.'
whatever, I'm going to buy the absolute crap out of more Stormverm-I mean Storm Veterans for the notSkaven army because of hos great they were in OPR.
@@84jesterx They're ok, they're not cheap points wise though. Also, I prefer the OPR models so if I ever want some more, I just need to fire up the printer.
@@84jesterxyou play Skaven because you want to see them kill their allies and fail spectacularly, not because you want to powergame!
The only way you eliminate meta chasing is you get rid of events, tournaments, and basically any community that list builds.
@@infinitedm5396That's impossible. I remember when Conquest was a tiny game with barely any community and there were already people going "haha look at how ridiculously broken this list I made is."
Modern gaming will always have meta chasers as soon as ANY audience is formed.
40K has tons of nostalgia going for it. OPR has the better gameplay. No waiting 2.5 years for a codex to make your army “good”, only to get an edition change weeks later and suck again.
I have nostalgia for 40k but I also have a ton of regret. I've played more games of OPR with minis I want to own rather than chasing down rulebooks and competitive lists. The people who play OPR at my local shop are into wargaming and miniatures as a hobby. 40k players are into 40k and don't want to play anything else.
Urk, nostalgia is bad, though... Jay's point about 'presence' is probably more accurate. I mean, how old are you guys suffering from 'nostalgia'? 20? 30? 60? Why would you feel nostalgia in your 20s? You haven't lived any life yet...
That's how it is with any hobby or interest that's dominated by a major player. D&D fans just want to play D&D and don't have much interest in other RPG's. WWE fans just want to watch WWE and don't care much about pro-wrestling as a whole. Plenty of Marvel fans who don't care about superheroes or even comics outside of that universe. If they're having a good time, there's zero problem with it, but it's funny when they complain about X and you're like "well there's an alternative that doesn't have X" and they don't have any interest in checking it out.
@@midwestmountainman Buddy, that's because you're a 'normy' a johnny-come-lately. The demographic of 'hobby' stuff changed: the ad-men decided it was okay for normies to enjoy 'geek culture'. I assume you were a fan of wrestling before the ad-men told you it was okay for normies to enjoy geek culture, right?
Also, that WWE thing doesn't match reality either: WWE fans are super-knowledgeable about AEW (as evidenced by the dozens or even hundreds of channels on YT who put out content on BOTH organisations).
I can tell you from personal experience, that non-D&D RPGs are MUCH better than the 45 year old grandpappy... it's so old.
I mean, thanks for providing such a clear example of this concept, I'll refer to your post every time I make the point in the future.
@@jack-a-lopium
51 myself and definately feel the nostalgia. But I play OPR not 40K
Been playing 40k since 2nd edition. 9th edition broke me. Switched to OPR and haven't looked back. Still love the models and lore of 40k though.
Try 10th, it's gotten a lot simpler I think.
@@alb1no if you have to think about it, then its not xD
@@alb1no I've seen enough to know it's not for me, thanks.
@@alb1no Why? OPR is better than 10th, more balanced, Games Workshop made themselves obsolete.
@alb1no it's not about simplicity. It's about convoluted rules that forgo the miniatures. What even are the stratagems!? Why aren't the stat line and abilities good enough? My units mostly feel generic in comparison to 2nd and other titles such as bolt action, asoiaf or star wars legion.
It's just not a fun game in comparison to others out there.
You dont need to read all 12 pages of the complete rulebook for OPR. You get all of the fundamentals condensed on one double sided page. Then the 12-page book has the diagrams and more in-depth explanations of things like line of sight amd unit cohesion if you're completely new to wargames. Vets can start playing right after reading the one page and making lists online!
Exactly how it was for me being a wargaming vet. Read the core rules in and understood it within an hour. My wife who has never played a wargame in her life picked up the rules in a month. She is fully implementing tactics now (2 months later) and blowing me away with things I never knew she was capable in the 11 years we have been together. OPR is the best!
There are two things I really like with OPR. One is any faction lists can be combined, so you can make your dream army only restrained by points caps for secondary armies. The second is their fantasy and sci fi systems technically have the same rules, so my wip Bretonnians can play against my friend's Death Guard with some adjustment to account for sci fi's shooting advantage.
Yes into your point, the big thing is that the same math formula is used to calculate points costs for every unit in every faction. BALANCED!
It used to be a bit like that with old versions of 40k and whfb that had basically the same rules and were relatively balanced
OPR is singularly responsible for rejuvenating my love for larger scale games. I had given up on 40K back in 8th Edition (2017), and my massive 40K army collection was not being used. Grimdark Future and Grimdark Future firefight inspired me to get my models back on the table, as well as finish off my 'pile of shame'. I absolutely love Grimdark Future; on top of the game being easy and fun, OPR's army builder app is spectacular.
I'm with you on this 100%, it has made this hobby fun again.
Absolutely! @@larsasak8793
💯 And how refreshing is it to be able to just focus on strategy and tactics instead of all the meta crap
OPR still feels like a wargame, while WH40K has moved into competitive miniature boardgame territory: stats have way more relevance than player tactics and overall strategy. Alternating turns, reasonable LoS/terrain, faction balance are all added benefits.
About morale, try using the optional suppression rules. And the optional expanded actions. And any optional rules you feel fancy enough to play with.
BTW, wonderful terrain on your tables.
Does it solve my main problem with WH40K, though? Which is the ratio of time spent on playing (decisions, choices, problem solving) to time spent on upkeep (rolling dice, consulting charts, doing compulsory things the rules tell you to do for the game to progress) ?
I think wh40k is a pretty dumb game (compared to, say, Warmachine or modern board games), but I don't mind a dumb game once in a while. What I do mind, though, is a boring game, which wh40k also is.
Absolutely wonderful point. It DOES feel like that. Positioning, flanking, tactics, they all play second fiddle to just raw stats, stratagems and hero-unit combinations.
@@robertchmielecki2580Never thought of taking time for comparisons between various gaming actions (someone complained of time spent moving models... in a 3D tabletop game), but having played a lot of 40K between Rogue Trader in 1989 up to early 9th edition, my highly educated guess - joking, BTW - is very much in favor of OPR.
Please forget the gargantuan blob of layered rules that is WH40K since 6th edition. It's an unfair standard to take for measurements.
EDIT: also, take in consideration that a 2K pts game in OPR is almost exactly equivalent to a 1K pts game in 40K, which for an old fart like me who learned to play the "Battle at the Farm" using the cardboard counters in the rulebook insert is really, really nice.
100% agree. Since 8th edition Warhammer 40K has been more List hammer. Just build a broken meta list, push your models one movement turn towards your foe, roll fist fulls of dice, re-roll fistfuls of dice, use some broken ass stratagem, then let your opponent do the same. Garbage gameplay, not fun at all.
Thanks for the answer! Yeah, different activities and how much time they take definitely matter. Modern design most often aims at limiting the non-interactive upkeep part, like generating random numbers (there's a reason why most computer games do RNG invisibly in the background) or shuffling a deck.
And if current 40k was a card game you would spend more time on shuffling the deck than actually playing the cards.
I agree that the opinion about having to move models is weird. It's where gameplay happens! Decisions, choices, good moves and mistakes.
Generating random numbers necessary for the game to progress on the other hand is just a non-interactive menial task. You turn your brain off and wait for the game to inform you "now you can stop doing what I tell you to do and make your own moves again".
UGOIGO should have been left behind over a decade ago. Every edition of 40k I expect to see the shift. It would be night and day with its own problems but it does make for a more dynamic game.
I've been playing since togue trader. We all know they don't have the game design skills let alone gameplay testing to do that.
@@PandorasFollythey simply don't care cuz the game isn't their focus
@@klyk69 the game is just enough to drive the loyalists to buy the next new minis .. got to update from the older (but perfectly usefull) version, don't you know?
@@klyk69 yeah they say that but gdubs says a lot of bullshit. I've been around in this since the beginning and it is demonstrably not true. One of the facets of the chapter house lawsuit was that chapterhouse was producing models for 40k units defined with rules by GW that GE never bothered to make models for in any capacity. So many in fact that after the lawsuit when GW removed those units from the rules tyranids became a literally unplayable army losing iirc something like 60% of its rules defined units.
The game literally drives their model sales. How many people would have a 3000 point army if their weren't a massive game to go with it. Its like disney saying, "we are foremost a toy and clothing manufacturer"
It's so antiquated. 10th edition was gw's big chance to step up and they shat the bed.
I love the history, the mythos, the aesthetic, the model ranges of 40k. I just use OPR as the vessel to engage with that on the table
For someone who has never played tabletop WH40k, this sounds as perfect solution! Will have to take a loan, buy small painted army and try it out...
@@johnjoobooksjust gather your army a squad at a time and paint them yourself, thats half the hobby there.
@@Combba6 Or print off some paper minis to get you going, see if you like the game, _then_ start investing in models...
We built OPR into our own game at our Hobby Shop. As an active player and hobby shop owner I see first hand how hard it is to introduce new people to the 40k tabletop game, compared to bolt action, Star wars legion, or just killteam. The game from a new player prospective feels unfair, difficult to understand or memorize, and requires a real demand of training to play properly. OPR being free makes it easier to justify trying it out, using 40k like model and units makes it easy to translate your armies and builds into the game, and the game is so simple you can modify and change it into your own narrative or expanded rules rather easily.
We as a community made some standard home brew rules we play with OPR at this point. instead of units being chosen to do an action like (Double move, Move Shoot, Shoot in place, Charge) we break up the actions into 2 actions per unit activation. A unit can do any 2 actions in any order, yet can only attack once per activation. So you can shoot, then move back, move and charge (Charge being only a 6" move so if you move and charge it's same as double move or standard charge in base game) We also add one extra action called Ready Stance.
Ready stance is fairly simple. it's a generic +1 buff that can be spent to shoot, fight, fight back in melee, defend. Any roll you'd make for fighting or defending roll. However it is consumed when used and effects only that volley coming in or going out. This helps replicate cautious marching forward, shield walls, taking cover, frenzy short range charge, steady stance with spears, aim and fire and so on. Without adding a dozen specific buff actions it covers them all, but can only be used for one of them when used. The token expires when the unit activates again the following round stopping it from being stacked upon. It's simple, adds a lot of options to play, and yes we did need to adjust the language of a few traits and abilities to work in line with this mod, but it was fairly easy since across the board the game is so fairly straightforward.
Moral as mention in the video we felt was a little too brutal with a lack of intrigue so was adjusted as well. we made it so you need to make a moral test if any of the 3 conditions are met at any given time for a unit.
-less than half strength as a unit
-5 or more damage in one volley of damage taken
-loss the fight in melee
At most a unit would need to make 3 moral tests in the worst conditions. (skaven slaves of ten get charged, 6 are blasted dead by attack, less than half strength being at 4, and lost the melee doing 2 damage back for example) However failing a moral test simply adds one token of suppression/wavering. each token takes away one action of the units activation. (so with 1 they can just shoot, or just move 6", but can't do both.) allowing a unit to fight in melee if it stuck in, or shoot in place, or ready stance to endure another attack, but can't Ready stance and shoot, or double move, or charge and move back. It goes without needing to be said if 1 token takes away 1 action, then if you gain 2 tokens of suppression/wavering your unit will need to use their whole activation to remove the tokens giving the paralyzed status base game makes. If a unit takes more tokens than actions the unit can use (3 or more) the unit finally routes off the table. This is very rare from our games and only happens in our experience to the most expendable and expected bad moral units like conscripts or slaves. so it fits very well.
I recommend anyone wanting to get into 40k to try OPR and use that as the bases of your tabletop experience and then enjoy the books, movies, shows, games, and artwork like anyone else. 40k is amazing setting with so much to love. The table top base game does act as the biggest obstacle to entry for people to be able to comfortable involve themselves in the hobby. I would know it's literally my job to get people interested in playing it and it's simply the biggest challenge I've had running my business compared to dozens of other game systems shown and played by new people as he listed in this video.
For someone that really wants to get into painting miniatures but doesn't want to go down the warhammer rabbit hole would you recommend this or something else? Currently I have return to dark tower and hero quest to paint which I'm workin on but I'm on the look out for something more like warhammer w/out being such an investment.
I would recommend it 100%@@s7r49
As said the rules are free, the advance rules are only a 5$ patreon to access and download for one month if you want to be budget it. Personally we don't use the Advance rules and just made our own built off the same system.
Any models work for it and specifically 40k most squads in this game are like 3 model or 5 model groups so the model quantity for an army is noticeably smaller and easier to make than the quantity it takes for standard 40k. Don't get me wrong 10th edition that just came out has approached game design similar with making it easier for new people to play, but these guys OPR has gotten it down to a science in play. I would highly recommend trying it out and adjusting it a little to play more fitting to your local community specifically.
I should also mention you don't NEED 40k models. You can use models from like 3d prints, Stargrave, Wargame's Atlantic, or anything. What ever can fit the squad model count size and description of what the unit is equipped with. @@s7r49
What an interesting read, thanks man!
I'm one of those "always wanted to, but was too scared" people. I adore WH40k esthetics and design, playing the games and reading books, but tabletop always seemed so confusing, intimidating and investment-requiring -- I never got to try it out.
With this fairy easy style I might actually overcome my fears!
I love WH40k but the prices have brought me to OPR. Plus, I homebrew armies in Army Forge Studio and man is that fun. If you can find the STL or model, you can make the rules. Got some old Bionicles? Slap them on a base and give them rules. It's so easy and they even have a guide on making your own armies. It's nuts.
OPR is fun and having the freedom. To use any models is worth it. I once saw pics of an entire Hive Fleet army that were Pokémon 3d printed models
In my opinion, most wargames are just about banging rocks together. OPR makes it very straight forward, but timing and positioning are very important. To me it feels like 40k rewards throwing the stone, throwing faster than your enemy and directly at their face.
well.. David would agree with that plan.
@@treyriver5676 The first recorded natural 20 roll.
if the stone is old, it won't do any damage or you can't use it at all. If GW has a new range of stones that they want to sell it will be sooooo easy to throw it and it will do hellovalot of damage
I love their Saurian Starhost army. Great concept. As an old school Eldar outcast player I love the sci-fi weapons mounted on dinosaurs.
I bought a start collectiong for the seraphon only a few days before finding out that OPR had created sci-fi versions of them... and now i feel ive basically wasted my money because of it lol
If 40k had a "space seraphon" army, I'd consider dropping the Necrons. 🙂
Good for you. I just think it looks kind of ... dumb.
I have two fully painted armies and some friends who would be willing to give it a go. I knew about OPR but hadnt looked into it. After this I think I will focus on the rules for OPR to have a wargame and leave 40k behind, always felt overfaced trying to learn it.
Exactly this. It feels like I have to take a long painful class in something I don't enjoy, to be able to enjoy playing a game. (Not even talking about added cost.) OPR is so much more approachable.
Been checking out the rules. 16 Pages Plus a couple extra pages per army v 45 Pages and tens of pages extra per army. It was the alternating activiation that really sold me, so much more engaging.@@nathangerardy2669
Personally i prefer OPR over WH because of alternating activations and the army builder. I think the only OPR thing is missing are several cool flavored faction abilities that really make all the WH armies so unique and thematic to play. I see GW mostly as a miniature/world building company because i don't like the way their rule systems handle thing at least for the two big ones 40K and AoS. But your point about the morale system is valid.
Don't worry, GW have gotten rid of those flavourful rules in favour of generic detachment rules. 😐
100% agree with you! I like OPR for the same reasons you mentioned. I wish OPR had an optional (so that it doesn't add bload to the base game) strategems/abilities system that added a bit more flavor and uniqueness to armies and help differentiate them. Right now the armies all feel very bland.
@@user-ff2mu4fh4vit does have a command point system as an optional module in the rules you can buy for 10 bucks
@@Secretgeek2012 Still more flavourful than the literal nothing that OPR has 😉
OPR has totally changed my hobby outlook now, playing more than ever, wanting to actually collect new forces and not worrying about which codex & supplements I need! Feels like the focus is back on the model actually on the field.
What I love about OPR is being able to take any models I like within a genre and create a cool looking army. Star Wars Legion rebels can face off against Konflict 47 Soviets (Rebel Guerrillas vs Human Defense Force) and it is going to be a great game.
I also love feeling free to try out different factions without needing to spend a lot of money on their codex. I can just buy a box of what I want and add them as Allie’s to an existing army. Then slowly build up that allied force until it is strong enough to stand on its own.
OPR has reinvigorated my love for the hobby and actually encouraged me to finish that Space Marine army of my dreams.
Fed up with GW. Changed to OPR a year or so ago. For me, no need to look back. Truly enjoying playing.
I still remember when One Page Rules literally just was condensed WHFB/40k rulesets for all armies at the time, including simplified skirmish for WHFB.
I think the other side of why OPR is so good are the community-made armies. I can make up an army to play with if I find some really sweet set of models to print and paint.
Without going into why many are angry with GW. As a new to the hobby person, the rules of 40K are so daunting. I've watched battle reports on that many times and the amount of work it would take to understand the rules for 40k and the investment in the rules cost and time is just painful. One Page Rules will get me to the table top at all. So for me it is the clear winner. I definitely understand your hesitancy to play non-40k with your history playing it for so long. Thank you for being open to try other options for us. I would love to hear how some actual games went in detail, and if you won any of them!
It might look like there's an overwhelming amount of rules in battle reports, but that's mainly because EVERY SINGLE UNIT has their very own one or two special rules. You usually only need to know the rules for the units you field yourself (often, you field them especially because of that rule) and preferably the most important ones of your opponent's army.
There are indeed many "fine print" rules in the rulebook, but not as many as it looks like from the outside.
40k Rules aren't actually that complex, if anything the game is far too simplistic compared to traditional wargames as it's a beer and pretzel game instead, and has been since RT days. The problem 40k suffers isn't complexity but that there is so much redundancy and inefficiency, especially with the abandoning of USR's in 8e that it bogs down the speed of the game immensely. Moreover the glut of inefficient pointless weapon types exacerbates problems wherein instead of simply having anti tank weapons or small arms you have the individual statlines for everything from a shootah to a las cannon. Meanwhile panning to look at WHFB, 40k's daddy, all weapon types are universal outside of magical unique wargear. Hand weapons are anything from a mace to a sword, great weapons are great weapons, etc.
I'd much rather have the old morale rules where the unit falls back and can try to regroup. The pinned rule is okay, especially if it confers some sort of cover save, but I would rather have it as a special rule. Maybe an odds or evens thing where the unit either is pinned or falls back
Yeah in real world settings you'd be pinned behind cover, if there's no cover you're dead, so a cover save makes a lot of sense tbh.
One thing that I love it for is the low barrier to entry. You can print paper fold up proxies, download rules, and start having fun. They also decreased the amount of time a player has to set aside in order to play a game, and I love that.
EXACTLY!!! You can let someone play for next to nothing, let them get their feet wet and find out what they like. After that when they start spending money they are building their armies not shelling out hundred for rules. I am working on a Chaos Knights army and it looks like $60 in resin and maybe $15 in magnets is going to get me twelve War Dogs with options and a Knight or two. OPR has me covered on rules, no tracking down an old outdated codex. I am going to end up spending more on the Dirty Downs rust effects at my local store than the whole army will cost me and that is once I have a bunch of Knights. Think about that from a new players point of view, one who never played a game a day in their life.
So for a couple of printed pages of paper you got to get your feet wet, discovered that the lore was pretty tight, liked the game and want to play the Chaos Knights faction well...
Option A, ...$115 for rule book (10th Ed) and an old and mostly outdated codex that still has some needed bits in order to know how to play 40k and your army
Option B,...$100 or less for your couple of extra pages and a small army, paint, brushes, rattle cans, a wet pallet, clippers, dice and probably more if yo do it right AND you will have been playing the entire time your building that army because you have all the rules you need.
I’m having fun with using the Robot Legion bases for my custom Necron Dynasty
Me and my friend have actually agreed and we just don’t do the morale phase in OPR. We just say his Marines are too Fearless and my Orks are too Ignorant to flee from battle.
Makes it way funnier when my squad of boys is knocked down from 10 models to 1. One Ork with absolute gumption facing the world. Pinning would be boring.
I have to admit, your story about the Ork morale failure felt "right" to me - something I hate about a lot of games is the way everyone fights to the death. In the real world, a unit that's suffered 10% casualties in a single conflict is probably done for. That's an effect that Stargrunt II is trying to model - shooting a unit might inflict casualties but mostly it just "pins" them; a pinned unit can only either try to rally or move to cover. An officer in that unit's chain of command can also try to rally them. And if a unit gets too many pins or fails a rally check, it doesn't just evaporate - it starts retreating to the nearest board edge, unless it's completely surrounded. This means that the controlling player has more chances to rally the unit, and that if the enemy manages to "poof" it through morale it's because of their positioning, so it still feels like they *did* something to cause that result.
Also, you should look at some systems that go beyond simple "alternating activation" to "unpredicatable activation." Things like Song of Blades and Heroes; or a simple system the local club used, where there was a token for every unit in the game. Chuck them all in a bag and add in a "turn ends" token and then pull one token out to see what unit goes now. Of course, this works less well with games that have a turn count rather than a prescribed victory condition, but it really forces you to think on the fly and react to changing events, and helps model the idea that your models represent people who may or may not be willing to do what you tell them to.
I don't really like how OPR handles morale because in the w40k universe, a lot of the units have incredible mental strength, some like the space marines are supposed to almost be incapable of feeling fear. They're literal super humans. The big boss ork warlord is supposed to live for war and enjoys death, ally or enemy. The necrons are mostly mindless robots that execute orders, most of them probably unable to consider retreating. If OPR was about real world humans, then sure, that would make sense. Not so much in w40k.
I like random alternating actions. Has the advantage of alternating but because it’s unpredictable you have to be more tactical in your decision making. More like the chaos of an actual battle. Also it seems more fun.
The random draw method is used in Bolt Action.
I imagine you hear this a lot but.... your models are painted beautifully. Hats off to you my good sir!
The players share a pretty large portion of the blame for the rules bloat. If the fine little details aren't spelt out in detail then they get exploited and it causes problems. This is one major reason why the rules section keeps getting bigger. They need to release two copies of the core rule book. A short little couple of page one which I think they did do in one edition as part of a starter set and the complete detailed aimed at tournament players and their exploits rules book. The rules should be the same but most players do not need or care for the fine edge case details and can look them up if required. Tournament players haven't proven that they can be trusted with the short version rules.
Partially true, but GW is also the only war game company I know that writes things like 'the attacker may choose to roll again the dice required to attempt to wound a unit but not the wound roll itself' instead of saying 'reroll hits'. The leviathan card deck is great and everything, but I feel like all the humanities majors in the room have never felt so empowered to dissect sentence structure in a tabletop game before. Compare 40k to a much, much, MUCH more complicated game like battletech classic and it is so obvious GW can't or won't write good rules.
I think it comes down to not trusting players with their rules, which I blame squarely on tournament players being overly competitive in a wargame
Even when they try to be as clear and detailed as possible, players will find some thin interpretation that benefits them. eg players trying to daisy chain the Tau army rule.
@@Mars0War Exactly - no matter what you make the rules say, someone will break them so it's better to just trust people to rule 0 the game instead of encouraging them to break your game further. Or just do what GW does and make rules that are broken full stop...
Or playtest rules before putting them in a 60 to 75 USD book.
Do open play test for 3 months after GW thinks the Codex is ready, then put out a 30 USD Codex rules only, and a 15-20 USD Art and Lore Book.
Very nice video discussing the differences . Also good to know that promoting OPR is not done by being very negative on the current 40K rules. Its good to try OPR out before judging. Personally I have a hangover from 9thy edition. I used to enjoy 7th and was able to play 3 games a day (1750pts). Now I am happy when I even finish a game in 4 hours. So many rules and things to think about. I did not start 10th edition (it seems to go the same way as 9th) and enjoying OPR so much better. The rules are more wargamy instead of role playing a whole army. Rules like suppressing fire, hunker down, pinnning are things that make more sense to me in a strategic game. OPR is also tough. Units really die and there are less second chances (strategems, aura abilitie and other magic). Morale is always a real thing even in real wars and a lot of games too (advance squad leader). The object is not to kill every last person but brake morale and make them useless. So I think this is very good that this is reflected in OPR.
I can't remember where I saw it, but someone suggested using an actual rout instead of just eliminating the unit when the morale check is failed in grimdark future. If you fail the check, your unit has to move towards the closest board edge and gets to try and recover at the end of each turn using its morale check. It makes the game feel much better when the unit isn't just wiped out in melee.
I liked the different camera angles and jumps. Good job on the fresh filming style!
We need an OPR Gungan battle report stat!
Another thing about OPR is the accessibility if, as you said casual gamers will be able to just understand the rules easier and it doesn't break your wallet.
I think it really just simplifies the rules, providing a good entry point for people who want to play war games and buy and paint minis, but don't want to be overwhelmed by some of the rules and army building that can deter new players.
It's funny that you say going second is bad in 40k. It really shows how differently the the game is played competitively vs. casually. As someone who only plays on the new tournament terrain format, I hope to always go second with my army build. If anything, it's the difference between doing nothing on my first turn other than move or getting to maybe shoot or fight going second.
Back in 3-5 I had a IG Armored Company (2000 points) and it was possible if I had first turn to nearly table an equal sized army .. and if 2nd against some armies I could be tabled. Igo ugo tends to assist the first player IF they are made for alpha strike.
What I found interesting was how the unit points system works when the rules aren't influenced by sales .
For some of the best morale mechanics check out warlords of erewhon where the unit will start to run away off the board on its next activation unless your commander can preform a rally action near them.
The other great mechanic is from spectre operations where your unit will run to the nearest cover (unless a board edge is closer) and stay there until they pass a check
I have always heard of OPR but have not looked too much into it. I'd like to consider looking into it for my miniature channel. I have yet to play a game of Warhammer 40k, but I have enjoyed alternating activations more than the idea of you go, I go. It comes from the fact that the games I have played and done battle reports over on my miniature channel have been alternating activations.
Wife and I just did our second ever wargame since we started this hobby.. 2 years ago now? and it was Onepagerules (250pt armry the Ratmen vs Treehuggers)...and it was very enjoyable! I'm so glad it exists.
A huge selling point of OPR is how it actively encourages home rules. Don’t like its morale system? Make a new one (or just copy 40K’s).
I had no idea you could create new factions in OPR. I would love to see a tournament to once and for all decide which sci-fi universe is the strongest!
"Goku vs Gundam; *FIGHT!!!* "
Kaiju vs Starwars!
I don't need to buy random copies of magazines and then toss out my $50 battletomes because they're outdated literally before they come out to play OPR
The thing I like about One Page Rules is it is simple to play and hard to master. I was able to teach it to my son when he was 6 years old. He was able to play and have fun even if he was not a master tactician.
"and the french"
shit had me uncontrollably giggling, prefect start to my morning
GW actually fixed I go, You Go way back in Adeptus Titanicus/Space Marine/ Epic 40k with the order system. I never understood why this wasn't ported to mainstream 40k.
People seem to forget that they can tailor any game rules they want to their particular game playing style. That's the beauty of cooperative play.
My friends and I play the fantasy version of OPF over Age of Sigmar. But my 8 year old son is dragging me into 40K kicking and screaming. But with him i think we're only going to do combat patrol for a while. It's fairly balanced, and with only like 4-5 units per army it shouldn't be overwhelming
The older I get, the more I realize that I don't actually need these corporations telling me what do, think or play. They're just jerks who own the copyrights, not the passionate nerds who dreamed this stuff into existence back before we had all these resources at our fingertips. Thanks for this, I'm going to give One Page Rules a shot.
I've been playing OPR for over a year now. We have pretty cool fast growing community, shops supporting us with rewards for local tournaments and a lot of 3d printers ;)
I can agree about morale. Even making that unit fight on sixes and move only up to 6" would change a lot because when your pinned unit gets up you usually get shot again, lose 1 model and fail that morale roll again.
One of biggest adventages over 40k is speed. Games are few times faster. But also making everything balanced like it is now makes game a bit plain sometimes. Factions feel like they lack a bit of identity. Well now with 3th edition it was changed a bit for some of them (like orcs got shooty). We will see what future changes will come :)
What I like about it is the modularity, you can make it more complex if you want it(provided that you have the complete rulebook which although is not free it's a negligible price compared to any other codex/rulebook), if you want command points and strategems they have a section with it for example
I play solo kill team and 400 - 600 point 40k. I play a mashup of OPR and 40k 10th. I essentially use 40k data sheets and points with alternating activations ... advance/ move shoot/charge & fight/over watch. It works well... also use Battle shock
Been playing 40k since 3rd edition. OPR is just better overall. Games are close like they use to be in older editions of 40k. Using your cool models is also a huge plus.
What gets me is that GW fixed the IGYG problem years ago with their Apocalypse release. Both sides performed their actions simultaneously with damage markers placed on wounded units. After all attacks were finished each player rolled against the number of markers on each unit and resolved losses. No unit was taken off the board before it had the opportunity to perform an action.
I fully expected this to be incorporated into the main 40k game, but it wasn’t and that glimpse of what could have been soured me on what 40k was stuck with.
Hey Jay, have you ever shown that colour wheel button on your apron close up?
Would 40k 10th. collapse if it were played with unit alternation? Could it be done if one used tokens for unit done with activation?
40K has good lore, lots of great flavor. OPR has great rules and takes about an hour from set up to handshake. I like 40k for the lore but OPR is just lightweight and gets out of its own way
I'm another old school 40k player that started collecting during Rogue Trader who heavily favors OPR these days and didn't pick up 40k 10th edition and now I'm fairly proficient with 3d printing I'm sorta not buying anything from GW anymore. Considering I was a bit of a whale for years and now I don't care about missing releases its a pity for someone but not for me 😂
Where did you get your card buildings? (6 minutes in, on the shelf) cheers
I like both systems but here's some thoughts:
-OPR makes special weapons in squads feel special while also having the normal bolters and such still feel good to use. However, this is because OPR in my experience is much more killy than 10th edition
40k.
-OPR can do alternating activations because it's about half the size for a 2k game. Units are either typically half the size for about the same points or are the same size but for double the points. There's also a hard limit to 10 units in a 2k game of OPR. I like alternating activations but you simply can't do that with current 2k 40k. For larger more spectacular battles I feel like 40k is the better system.
-I like OPRs moral system better. Shooting vs melee (bare with me this is going somewhere) has always been difficult to balance. Shooting is inherently stronger because you can do it more often. This leads to many game systems implementing nerfs to shooting like "no shooting within engagement range." This causes some feels bads where you models can't do anything. OPR solves this pretty well with it's charge rules and that's cool but it indirectly nerfs melee. The moral system in OPR does a really good job buffing melee and balancing the two very well.
-One thing I like more about 9th edition 40k (I intentionally mentioned 9th not 10th) is generally the flavor but more specifically the increase flavor and variety of play style that comes from 40k's increased rules complexity. It felt good to make a Skitarii forcused army from my OC Do not steal custom Rad Saturated forge world and have rules both reflect and reward this. My complaint with 10th edition 40k is its still too complex while also having lost a lot of it's flavor and fun. 9th edition vs OPR was an interesting comparison where both games provided different niches that justified a person playing both. Now with 10th's changes, there's simply no reason to play 40k. This might change once more factions have codexes but for now just play OPR.
My group syipped 40k at 5th ed. When One Page Rules came out, we picked up the Grimdark and started playing again! As we like the continued lore of 40k, that only goes so far. With the FREE rules and FREE army builder (actually mathematical and fair) it is very difficult to beat. Us, the designers get online and you can pose questions to them. They seem to want to make their product known and support it.
Which of the SW rulesets would you say is the best? Also can we have that Gungan list?
I recommend using the advanced actions like hunker down. It makes being pinned a little less bad. That said, I would like to see morale being less punishing, as you mentioned.
I also dislike how bad units with a mix of shooting and melee weapons are and would like to see them points come down on these more rounded units. In Warhammer you can shoot them charge so at least both weapons can be useful in at least one turn.
Can bolt action/konflicy 47 really be considered alternsting activation?
I also think MESBG is the ultimate hybrid between i go you go and alternating activations.
Since yes you move all your models, but then your opponent moves, you shoot, then your opponent shoots.
Although i havent played it, i think the fix to 40k could be to add the apoc rules where units take damage and are removed at the end of the turn when both players have done their thing
Back when I played WH40k 2nd Ed, we used to have shooting and combat handled at the same time so both armies did their shooting and then models were removed, and in hand to hand, same thing. Idk if we just played it wrong or if that's how the rules were but I think it made more sense as units are not going to be sitting there ildly as the other unit beats the crap out of them. Dead models were removed at the end of the phase for both armies.
I like the idea of both players doing a phase then it goes to the next phase
One really nice thing about OPR is that kids - ages still in the single digits - can get a grasp on the rules, and play.
The fact that a bazillion dollar company like GW can't come up with an app with the same ease of use, functionality, and freedom as OPR's Army Forge is so strange. Making army lists for 40k is a chore, making GDF armies is something I do for fun!
We play 40k, using the OPR Rules. Everything stays the same, only the game is just 5x better than GW's bloated rules.
Pinning and routing are both drawn from more realistic wargames - it's a core piece of the grandaddy: Advanced Squad Leader (which has an I go, you go system that works as opposed to GW's mess) - and provides that possibility of 'did that really just happen' events that take out things in war. The OPR morale allows the possibility for you to get units back into the game if they get pinned early enough.
I love OPR for it's openness and welcomness to 3rd party creators like Dragon Trappers Lodge, Mammoth Factory, Fleshcraft Studios and I Demo Games (ironically the sponsors of the video)
such great and awesome model stls too
What if we remove the dead minis in 40 after both players get a turn. alternating activation but for the whole army or even instead of squads for Groups o squads?? I like Alt Activation alot and it sucks to be tabled.
I came to this type of skirmish scale Wargaming through One Page Rules, which was instrumental in getting a lot of friends back into the hobby. The rules are elegant and there's much less of a wait for rules updates. Many many strong points in OPR's favor, though like you mentioned as a vehicle heavy player especially the morale check at half health causing you to lose access to a baneblade when it still has tons of health left feels bad. Coming into 40k proper in 10th edition, I appreciated the jump in complexity while not getting incomprehensible like I had heard earlier versions were. Of course this is all to sell little plastic models, but I do appreciate 40k having a continuously updated world and lore to support those miniatures. The creativity of the community is always inspiring and though getting blasted off the board by the Aeldari isn't much fun yet I hope to get as many games out of 10th edition as I enjoyed in OPR. Very good video.
never heard of this, and never tried this Alternating turns, but i must admit it sounds VERY good.. as an old man playing warhammer since i was 12, i would like this adapt to the game each turn.. i like warhammer, but have a battleplan in mind, for the entire game, would also maybe giveaway your plan to the enemy.. if they see oh he has those units, and go for that..
I get what u mean with morale. I once managed to get an orc Walker to just up and leave using a 5 man neophytes squad with a war banner that has the “fear” special rule.
"Which means your models evaporate"
Spiderman yelling "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!"
I think you nailed it with the issue that GW are too cautious about changing up their flagship franchises.
I think one of the reasons particularly newer TTMG go for alternate activations is because the market for these types of games keeps getting more and more congested and to be able to invest people into your games you need to keep them invested and engaged at all times so they keep having fun, rather than having 5-10mins of fun then having to wait 5-10mins whilst their opponent has fun before they can have fun again.
I would love it if either during this edition or maybe as part of 11th GW releases two sets of rules for 40k. The OG rules of alternating turns, and another ruleset that takes the core elements of 40k that make it so engaging and transfers that to an alternating activations system and then see what the player feedback is in regards to which ruleset they prefer.
Where is this mat from? The one with the Stones.
I love OPR and Grimdark Future: Firefight because of the east of solo play. I don’t have the time of get together with people to play, and Firefight let’s me move minis around in an easy way and still have fun. The rules let me play without having to constantly dig for rules. Not needing to spend $100 for a rule book and codex for a game I don’t have time to play I’d also a big plus.
So, I agree that alternating activations are better than the 40k I go you go, but there are a few games out there that do some nifty things that aren't.
Battletech Alpha Strike (not sure about classic) is halfway between, where you do alternate moving units, but when the shooting phase comes up,player A does all their shooting, then player B does all their shooting, and then damage is applied and mechs are destroyed. It lets you play more tactically and move units into battle without making you feel like stuff gets taken off the table without doing anything.
And Infinity / Code One has probably the best not-alternating system. Each unit generates an order, and you can spend one order to give a unit a move and an action. So, yes, you can bring four cheap units and dump five orders into your one super dude while the other four huddle in the back. This continues until you run out of orders or decide to pass, and then your opponents turn starts.
At the same time, when the other player is active, all of your units can react to the active unit, including shooting at it. Generally reactive fire is weaker, and you can only react to the active unit, but even though it's your opponents turn you are constantly watching for chances to react to their actions, as well as setting up choke points on your turn, maneuvering facings to cover flanks or sneak around theirs, throwing smoke grenades to cover advances, and generally playing like sci Fi swat teams. It is a game where I have gotten absolutely curb stomped many a time and still had a blast and felt like all of my units got to do something.
Hey Jay, do you think that you could do a video on Battlefleet Gothic? I've been going crazy on it and the community makes everything free, including all the ships and rules, even original journals. Thanks a lot!
I love the idea of OPR, but I really need a published paper book or rule set etc. I can't find any version of this that is published for real. :(
oh well now we know what happened to the entire species of gungans
The decision to put the core rules slap bang in the middle of the rule book is defintily worth mentioning, whoever decided to do so, but maintain the 1-60 page numbers and then state that they start after page 199 of the rest of the book but also stop numbering those pages after 193 should be slapped very, very hard in the face.
Last time I played 40K I stood there before the game while my opponent took over fifteen minutes to explain his multi faction chaos armies, special rules, psychic powers, stratagems, auras, character abilities, warlord trait, yada yada yada. And then I took my turn explaining my factions special rules, psychic powers, stratagems, auras, character abilities, warlord traits, etc. etc. I had a difficult enough time memorizing my own stuff (I had a two page cheat sheet), and now I had to remember all his stuff and how it would synergize with his dozens of units. It's too much! I just want to paint models and roll some dice. Don't have time to get a PHD in 40K. Switched to Bolt action and never looked back.
You ever played 2nd edition?
@@supermarx yes. I play 2nd edition once a month. Allows me to relive the good old days and also use parts of my vast Imperial guard and Space marine armies. I prefer Bolt action though. Unlike a lot of folks I don't love the lore or background of 40K.
GW is a miniature company and make their money by selling models. It's very plausible that their rules are kinda shitty because they are designed to sell models. Look at the recent 10th updates, for example. Many people hoped for buffs for poorly performing factions, but they mostly got points decreases across the board. Why? Because if you decrease points you sell more models.
So yeah, if someone made alternate 40k minis then they would be ripoffs, since that's what GW does. But rules? Free for all, AFAIK.
When playing OPR, in my mind I'm playing warhammer. Our battles happen there. It's just we use a different ruleset.
Imo the best thing about easy rulesets like OPR is that it allows us to just have fun laid back games again... more time playing, less time rule looking.
And the fact its so easily modifiable.
It's easy to homebrew up an own faction. even in older GW games that was possible, hell, I still play good ol Warmaster with custom rules for my own little chaos army. If I'd want to do the same thing in 40k? oof... so much stuff. so. much. stuff.
and yeah I don't really have any more places for new codices lol
I wish GW would include a codex with the models, if i buy a killteam it should have that team's codex included...(all it takes is a paper pamphlet) Also i have no idea why GW doesn't sell STLs, the profit margins would be far greater then plastic models... I think these things are hurting 40k and pushing people towards alternates that are exponentially cheaper...
I have a friend group that has been trying to pull me into 40k for years, up to and including buying roughly half of my army and all my rulebooks and codices. I've always hated it. And yet, when I play OPR, I get that exact no-strings-attached beer-and-pretzels feel I've been looking for. I don't care for 40k enough to learn all the unit names and variants, weapons, rules changes, errata, and read the latest news. But with OPR, without much though, I can slap my models on the table and play. It may be free, but it's also priceless.
Well done video and commentary!! Good job. Gonna try OPR soon, 9th ed killed 40k for me - stratagems (ugh).
Model based rules alterations started to tick me off as well. Thanks for the thorough analysis.
I feel like battle shock does not do enough. A -1 to hit would increase its importance and still keep the unit in action. As of now, a strong unit that is not on any mission objectives has absolutely no disadvantage if it is battle shocked.
But I might also be biased because I play Tyranids and my whole army gimmick is forcing my opponent to do battle shock tests ONCE PER GAME.
Does anybody knows if Eons posted that OPR Gungan Army list anywhere?
The new army builder is great. Someone even did a chess piece army lol.
Now I want to know how that Gungan vs Space Marine battle played out!
I Play 40k for 15 years now. My best friend got never into it. But since I showed him OPR half a year ago, he really got into it and he started an Ork army now. So yeah it brings new people into the hobby who search for easy and fast to learn rules.
Thing I don't like about the I go you go system is that it can be so swinging that the other player may not actually get a turn depending on list. With alternating activations it makes battles a lot more tactical because you have to think on your feet, and be fluid in your planning. If you sit to long on a important play it loses potency some of the time.
Plus I go you go has a lot more of the classic table top war game risk. Nothing against risk. Just saying I go you go is a bit of a dated system.
OPR is also the easiest entry point into the hobby. Heck they have print and play try it and see if the concept of miniature war games can be for you.
OPR's morale is pretty much same as 40ks up until 8th. I give them an edition to tweak it - 40k's new morale is very recent.
Great video! I love OPR, but I’ll still probably play normal 40k and buy models sometimes too. I thinks folks should enjoy both tbh
Yeah, it doesn’t have to be an either/or thing at all. OPR is a cool addition to 40k, it plays quicker and is easier to get people into. As it’s free there’s no reason not to have the rule set in your back pocket for casual play for times when full 40k is a bit much
I do like OPR rules overall. However, I do feel like things die to fast. I wish units were a little tougher and contributed more to the game before getting wiped out during the first turn. Maybe its the price to pay for a quicker game, but it would be nice for a better balance between fast play and tougher units.
Just weeks ago, the 3rd edition of OPR was released which didn't change much of the core gameplay but, incidently, lowered the lethality of the game overall. So your wish was granted.