Riker the older brother, Picard the father, Geordi the best friend, Troi the sister, Crusher the mother, Worf the protective next door neighbor, what a family Data had.
Reading so many comments of people praising Data, Yet, no one talks about how wonderful Jonathan Frakes acting was in that scene. The Complete and sudden change in his whole face and, demeanor when data says that he doesn't have to deal with the emotional consequences was beautiful. . . He was so underrated on that show.
It's because so much of the crew were great actors. Frakes was absolutely amazing whenever he got the chance to shine but the nature of Riker was usually as a supporting character, supporting Picard as his XO, supporting Data in his quest for humanity, supporting Worf, Geordi, and even Wesley as a mentor-type, supporting the rest of the Crew as a leader (without being their captain).
@@felipepineda1585 the way it comes off to me is that he feels a very sobering compassion, as if he is thinking, "...but you also don't experience the emotional bond of trusting companionship"
@@musenji To me it was a genuine "perhaps". Like in "maybe yes, maybe no idrk" and maybe a little concern to what an AI like data would conclude hence his serious expression
That "perhaps" was so well acted. I feel like Riker is thinking of all the emotional pain he's been through in his life, and confronted so directly and so suddenly to weigh the good against the bad, finds himself unsure whether it really is worth it.
When Riker says “perhaps” is beautiful. Because although he realizes that Data is speared from betrayal, he is also not able to form the emotional bonds that make us human. Favourite. TNG. Scene
Ah, but that's not true at all and Riker's look betrays that. He was around Data when Tasha died. He knows that Data does form bonds of familiarity and is capable of grieving the absence of someone. He is not spared at all the advent of betrayal, it's why he came to Riker in the first place.
@@davidlewis5312 Data himself is to focused on "I don't have emotions." And fails to see he is in a form of "pain" or "discomfort." His programming seems to be "bugging" out and he keeps thinking about her. This not really a feedback loop he mentioned, is his form of being "emotionally" hurt from the betrayal. No emotions involved, but he is still "hurting."
I saw it the other way. Data says that he doesn't have the burden of emotion, yet he's bothered enough to seek Riker's advice on how to deal with his feelings. Frakes was always good in these scenes with Spiner, you can see him kind of shift gears and decide it's futile to try to explain it further.
@@sleepinggorilla >decide it's futile to try to explain it further. Or perhaps that it's kinder to let someone believe they're not in pain, maybe in a way that lessens the blow.
For me the best parts of TNG was always either Data trying to find out what all this 'human being alive' stuff meant...like this scene.... and Worf trying to balance his Klingon back ground and beliefs with his human upbringing.
My faovrites were when Picards moral high ground was challenged and, at times, completely scrutinized. A principled mind is one that easily grows complacent and dull, same with Picard as a character, so it's nice to see him challenged and/or corrected from time to time.
My favorites were always Picard and Worf, but the few Barclay episodes were great. It was nice to see someone in starfleet that had anxiety and wasn't always cool under pressure.
The thing you have to appreciate about Data and Soong is that although Data claims to have no emotions, he clearly is programmed with the ability to form attachments as well as possess a sense of self preservation. I believe this was how Soong improved on Lore. Lore had emotions, but not the capacity for attachment, which led to him turning murderously evil. On the flipside, Data is learning the value of life and others through the attachments he makes, so when he gains emotions they would be governed by his attachments leading to a better outcome. Just my perspective though.
Interesting. Social attachments are the hidden stuff of family, friends, teams, communities, politics, and just about every source of cultural, scientific, or other achievements of humankind.
@@Mansplainer2099-jy8ps one of Roddenberry's main ideas, which is a core concept in Star Trek as a whole, particularly in TNG, is the assertion that certain things do have inherent, objective value - life being chief among them - and that that value is self evident. you're perfectly entitled to hold the belief that value itself as a subjective concept has no objective substance and is therefore not real, or a myth as you put it, but it's worth remembering that the show was written before those kinds of postmodern ideas entered the public consciousness. Roddenberry wouldn't have agreed with you, so the show doesn't adhere to your logic regardless of its validity. if your beliefs are correct then there may not be any objective value for life to have in the real world, but in the world of Star Trek life is inherently valuable and we see the characters in the show argue this point on the regular. Data learning of those values through his ability to form attachments with others is one of several things which differenciate him from Lore, and that is something that's internally consistent with the philosophy of Star Trek. that you disagree with that philosophy, doesn't make that fact any less true.
I've always loved the dynamic between Riker and Data. Cuz data was always striving to be more human while Riker was striving to be a better one. And the fact that data came to riker to ask him this question, says alot about their friendship.
It's only as we grow older that we realise what a deep show this really was. Some of the dialogue is immense and helps guide our real world lives. Truly excellent writers and actors on this show. Rikers "perhaps" is so powerful. It shows he is not convinced that Data is fortunate. Unpleasant as it is; to feel betrayal and hurt is what makes us human. And its what also makes the joy and happiness we experience all the more precious.
I realized it at the time, as a (gifted) child, because I was starving for such depth in life (which was also my general attraction to theatre and sci-fi). I had already been reading X-Men from eight, and Stephen King at 11. So, probably unusual, but I could see it...what I see now is how we are deliberately walking away from this and being manipulated. I've watched even the actors change (although I haven't forgotten the characters).
“Whisper a dangerous secret to someone you care about. Now they have the power to destroy you, but they won't. This is what love is.” - Welcome To Night Vale
Or they destroy you, but not with a purpose to destroy. Because they know you need help and can do better. Like turning in somebody you love for a crime, before things get worse.
@@windbarioth Correct. Like performing surgery. You're, in the moment, slicing open someone's flesh and invading their body. On "paper" that sounds horrific. But in actuality you're performing a life-saving measure. It just has the appearance of something more dangerous.
Riker explaining the chance of betrayal when we trust people is a well-written piece of work. The senior officers, especially Data, wanted to trust Yar simply because of her connection to Tasha. Any similarities between Tasha and her sister ended with the last name. Tasha left her homeworld to have a better life. Her sister chose to stay. Data needed this lesson on trust and betrayal as he still had a lot to learn about being human.
0:38 Were “Data Sit Down” and “Thank You Sir” in the script? Or did the actors ever have liberty to . . . Make up transitions that worked for the scenes and their characters?
@@sparkdawgeth Yeah. Avery Brooks said something similar. Akin to “If we wanted to change an “it” to an “it’s” - they had to make a phone call to production across the lot.”
@@tayzonday Yeah, including one scene between Quark and Garak which involved having to bring down the boss to the set. I think they are referring to the scene between them at the beginning of The Way of the Warrior about root beer and the Federation being their only hope of salvation.
Star Trek the Next Generation was a show by itself. The show was something of a philosophical dive into the mysteries of humankind and the complexities that surround humanity. I promise after you've watched the show, you will be better for it.
This freaking show was so well written. How many times has something so nebulous like trust been explained in a way you never though you needed to hear?
I never noticed it before now, but when Riker says "... perhaps." I think he's not so sure that Data *is* spared the emotional consequences. He was, after all, unable to let it go.
@@mikeymcmikeface5599 - But bonding-especially with “your [kind of] people”, is under appreciated. And true friendship-Eg Harry, Ron, & Hermione, “Friendship” / Philia in CS Lewis’ The Four Loves or Aristotle’s Anxient Greece, ... these are especially uncommon in today’s society. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philia Philia (/ˈfɪliə/; Ancient Greek: φιλία), often translated "highest form of love", is one of the four ancient Greek words for love: philia, storge, agape and eros. In Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics, philia is usually translated as "friendship" or affection.[1] The complete opposite is called a phobia.
Society is fading from what Star Trek is. Our future could be Star Trek, but if society continues down the path it's headed, then we'll end up in a Mad Max Thunderdome future.
Well, there WAS a third world war in Star Trek before they developed warp tech, and the 2020's in universe were pretty shitty too. What I'm getting at is maybe we're not too far off from our Star Trek future after all
@@QuietlyCurious its astounding that the generation that would've grown up with both the 60s and the 80s star trek, you would expect they would've learned valuable lessons about their fellow man, then again the shows were never big enough like star wars. And sci-fi morals sometimes go over your head becuz after all none of it is real.
From the clips I’ve seen from Star Trek, there’s real conversation and lessons taught in it, unlike what is put out (for the most part) in programming and film today
Such a brilliantly written show. That's what made Star Trek so compelling, not the action or the setpieces. Consider the last lines. Data: "Perhaps I am fortunate, Sir, to be spared the emotional consequences." Riker: "Perhaps." An entire philosophical quandary opens, one that can never quite be resolved, that brief exchange. One can imagine Riker sitting up at night contemplating that.
You really appreciate Spiner's acting. Data just gets up and leaves, no visible introspection or body language. It really conveys how emotionless he is.
Oh, they’d just go back in time**LENS FLARE**, prevent Tasha from dying**LENS FLARE**, blow up a planet or wipe out a few million or few billion people**LENS FLARE**, and celebrate **LENS FLARE**, unfazed, in a new timeline.
@@whatisahandle221 By the way, I just got around to watching ST Beyond a few weeks ago. I'm pretty tolerant and accepting of variations on Trek, but for the first time in my life (I was alive when TOS was still on, although I didn't see it in real time), I couldn't finish a Trek episode or film. It is SO bad, in my opinion: endless, reeling, stomach-churning, computer-generated, special effectualized action for action's sake. I hope it got better by the end. Awful.
This is such a great lesson, however hard it may be every time to open yourself and be vulnerable it has boundless benefits that you'll never realise if you don't try. Also ties into the story arc with Ro Laren betraying the TNG crew in the end. Honestly I wish I could go through life in the way that Riker describes but it seems that I ended up stuck in the conclusion that Data initially made and now ive ended up 5 years not making any social connections.
Star Trek has always been insightful in relation to many circumstances of human development, emotions and reasoning etc., I am glad I came across this video. Thanks for sharing.
I read or heard something recently about how researchers into conversations polled people and determined that almost half the time, people thought that their conversations went on too long.
Perhaps? Bosh, Riker. Trust is betrayed once in a great while, but it is rewarded hundreds of times every day in simple interactions with our fellow people.
"Perhaps" -Riker subtly pointing out Data not realizing he too is caught in the emotional turmoil of his "feedback loop" that we all suffer as our mind replays events trying to figure out how things could have been done different to avoid it. Any information that may have warned us it was coming. How it fix it. How to stop it. How to undo what was lost. Going over and over in our mind until we are too exhausted to think.
For an emotionless android, Data always had a great capacity for understanding and learning about the human condition. In learning what it means to be human, his discoveries and intelligent way of handling them teach us a lot about what we are ourselves.
Scenes like this prove that it is long past time for a Riker lead show. Im envisioning regular chats with Picard via sub space feed for advice and direction as a new minted captain.
That last line is so true, I wish to God I could be spared the emotional expenses when life turns to shit, because my life, just like millions of other people, has not just turned to shit, but has destroyed any possibility of any type of happiness for my future because I’m dying, and there’s nothing I can do about it. I’m only 53, I was first diagnosed with stage four Crohnos disease shortly after my 20th birthday, but I know I’ve had the disease my whole life, but fear stopped me from telling anyone about it, terrified I would find out that I was going to die, it’s so ironic that if I had actually gotten the help when I needed it the most, I know for a fact I would be perfectly fine right now, but because I waited until I was 20 years old and the symptoms were the worst they’ve ever been to finally start looking for help, it was already too late. I’ve had 37 operations removing 95% of my entire gastrointestinal tract, the first operation was done after my large intestine ruptured, flooding my entire abdominal cavity with toxins and killing me by the time they got me to the OR. Thankfully with the help of a defibrillator they got my heart beating again and proceeded to go on with an 11 hour long surgery, the first of many many more, the shortest one was seven hours long. Here is the worst part, because I allowed the Crohn’s disease to grow uninhibited my entire life up until I was 20, cancer began to grow on the outside of my intestine, had a sought treatment when I was just a child, the doctors all agree the cancer would have never developed, but instead? The first time, it was two small tumours the size of a pea, they had to remove the shattered remains of my large intestine to which these tumours were attached, and thankfully they were able to take out all cancerous tissue without having to go through radiation and only a small amount of chemotherapy, but for the first week after that surgery it was touch and go. They gave me a 10% chance of survival, but by some miracle I did survive, only to go on over the following 33 years to develop the cancer three more times, each time was a 5% chance of survival, each time more and more intestine was removed, but now? There’s no more intestine left to remove, I only have my stomach and esophagus, if they remove that, even though they can give me intervenous nutrition, it won’t be enough to fight off the cancer, which has now spread throughout my entire body. I’m sorry for bumming everyone out, but just hearing that line made me so angry at myself for being so stupid and cowardly when I was young and afraid. It’s my own damn fault that I’m dying, I could have prevented this, but instead I chose to hide the truth from everybody out of pure terror, and now I face the ultimate test, to see how I deal with dying and death. I’m not looking for pity or sympathy, I’m only saying this for two reasons. Firstly, just to get it off my chest, and secondly but most importantly, praying to God that at least one of you will listen to my story and go see your doctor because you yourself have been feeling sick I have been afraid to go seek treatment. For god sake don’t wait, don’t hesitate, granted my case is extremely extremely rare representing exactly 0.01% of all G.I. patients, but statistics don’t mean a damn thing anymore. I can literally feel the cancer spreading throughout my body, as it ravages the muscles, the tissues, the nerve endings, and the bone. Each week I can feel myself slipping away bit by bit, and now it’s just a question of time, but no more than a few months. I only hope to God that by telling you my story I’ll be able to help somebody prevent my fate. Thank you for listening, and please don’t take anything for granted, especially your Health. I never thought I’d be dead at 53, but that’s exactly what’s going to happen, I do believe in God, and I don’t blame him for any of this, because that’s not how it works. All I do is pray I go fast, without too much pain…………god bless ❤️
The message I got from this is Trust is always a gamble. Sometimes it leads to wonderful rewards, but there's a price to pay. And maybe not trusting or getting close to anyone is emotionally safer, as Data suggests, but you also pay a price for that.
I dunno, Picard's family relationships were pretty intense. also Lwaxana Trois's w/hers. Also Ensign Ro & Maki/Starfleet. (not to mention Picard's relationship w/the Borg)
We are lost in the loneliness like the gray clouds that stretches out beyond the roaring seas. Betrayal is the time thief the stopper of inner dreams and the extinguisher of our burning desires.
the way Data simply says “energize” after Ishara’s last words to him on the transporter remained burned into my mind for years after seeing this episode, as was this scene. TNG has many more moments where excellent writing and excellent performances from the cast resonated with me for years afterwards, a true testament to the creative powers of those who so often elevated this show.
the scene directly following this is where data has her implant in hand. No words spoken but the message is clear, data is still attached to Ishara despite his (what might be described as) anger and disappointment.
I've seen this scene so many times and have gone through certain experiences in my own life that have conditioned myself to see any good option accepted as potentially being a path to being betrayed....as it has happened on so many occasions...I kind of expect betrayal...unlike Riker's suggestion that no one is prepared for it.
I remember that in the Mass Effect 3, EDI, the AI of the space ship, says how the crew approach her new android-avatar body even though they can communicate with her anywhere on the ship (because she IS the ship). The description she gives about feedback loops from such interactions and how she says she uses the term 'like' as shorthand for the desire to interact in that way more makes me think that the machine understanding of emotion isnt so far off from the biological one, it's just worded more rationally.
Yes, rikers perhaps just hits different reflection of the pain of The human condition on one hand jealous of data is lack of emotion at the same time wishing that Data could feel
I'm not sure Data was spared the emotional consequence. He is having repetitive thoughts and regrets for trusting and wondering why he didn't know they would be betrayed. Sounds exactly like an emotional consequence to trusting the wrong person.
Data seems to have at least a rudimentary perception of emotions, however lacking a chemical response in his body like we do he doesn't get overwhelmed by them and can process, break down and analyze his experiences on a very deterministic level which is also why he seeks council. He understands that something is missing and avoids associating a meaning to something that isn't fully in his grasp.
1:20 - what I find funny is that Data *just* said that he couldn't stop thinking about her - that he found it distracting and hard to focus - that's an 'emotional' fallout of a sort It almost feels like he's reassuring himself - that it will pass - because he doesn't *really* feel things...
Data says he has no emotions, since he wasn't directly programmed with them, but he's so complex that it's implied throughout the series that he really does have at least limited emotions that he's developed over time as he's evolved.
"Perhaps I am fortunate to be spared the emotional consequences." Let that line marinate a bit. Data was not programmed with our ability to experience anger, sorrow, etc. And yet, in past episodes, he was ready to murder a truly despicable person, mourned the passing of Tasha Yar (and even keeps a keepsake from her), and numerous other moments where he experienced something approaching emotions. It was not simply him processing the experience and reacting accordingly. Data is conscious of when he is "feeling" something. Not being programmed to experience emotions on the conscious level does not mean he cannot experience them otherwise. He sulked in his tent like Achilles. He experienced disappointment at losing a game. He was willing to sacrifice Picard's life to stand up for the rights of the Exo-comps. These are not the actions of a cold, calculating machine that lacks emotions. These are the actions of a conscious being with morality, who chooses to do what they feel is right, and to respond to a situation where expression is otherwise expected, but to never be able to express it themselves. Data uttered this line knowing he couldn't express it, but as hurt as anyone else by the betrayal.
I watched this episode last night on Netflix and afterwards thought "that was a really great conversation, I hope there's a clip of it on TH-cam". And then this morning this video is recommended to me. Spooky
Riker the older brother, Picard the father, Geordi the best friend, Troi the sister, Crusher the mother, Worf the protective next door neighbor, what a family Data had.
I'd say more that Riker is the uncle and Worf is the protective older brother.
…and pet Spot
kuribo1 what was Tasha?
@@ksoonsoon Tasha was the friend with occasional benefits.
Data no, Geordi no, POTENT Riker no, Picard no. Deanna’s anyday though!
The irony is that data does pretty much describe the emotional fallout of a breach of trust before he talked.
Exactly what I was thinking
That's why Riker reacted the way he did to his comment.
I think it's clear that while Data is convinced he doesn't have emotions, he does.
@@junbh2 yeah he really does!! such a shame writers were blind to that and gave him the 'emotion chip' instead
Jonathan Frakes really excelled in grounded scenes like this.
He was most like the great Kirk than anybody.
@@gmancolo and they both sucked in high energy scenes with absurd over acting
@@Bosc715 and we loved them for it.
@@RIDDICK0911 🤣
Every single time.
Reading so many comments of people praising Data, Yet, no one talks about how wonderful Jonathan Frakes acting was in that scene. The Complete and sudden change in his whole face and, demeanor when data says that he doesn't have to deal with the emotional consequences was beautiful. . . He was so underrated on that show.
It's because so much of the crew were great actors. Frakes was absolutely amazing whenever he got the chance to shine but the nature of Riker was usually as a supporting character, supporting Picard as his XO, supporting Data in his quest for humanity, supporting Worf, Geordi, and even Wesley as a mentor-type, supporting the rest of the Crew as a leader (without being their captain).
Underrated??? His beard alone improved the show. 🤪
Maybe I misread him... his expression, to me, was between anger and a slight touch of envy
@@felipepineda1585 the way it comes off to me is that he feels a very sobering compassion, as if he is thinking, "...but you also don't experience the emotional bond of trusting companionship"
@@musenji To me it was a genuine "perhaps". Like in "maybe yes, maybe no idrk" and maybe a little concern to what an AI like data would conclude hence his serious expression
That "perhaps" was so well acted. I feel like Riker is thinking of all the emotional pain he's been through in his life, and confronted so directly and so suddenly to weigh the good against the bad, finds himself unsure whether it really is worth it.
I'm pretty new to the whole Star Trek universe, but I'm already beginning to dangerously like that androïd.
You must've loved Star Trek Nemesis as much as I did, then!
Shut up...dont tell him that
So did Tasha
Data is low key the best character in the series
11 years in, what are your thoughts on the franchise? I'm legit curious.
When Riker says “perhaps” is beautiful. Because although he realizes that Data is speared from betrayal, he is also not able to form the emotional bonds that make us human. Favourite. TNG. Scene
or maybe ... he is not really spared either one. so its a 4-way "perhaps."
they carried this off perfectly.
Ah, but that's not true at all and Riker's look betrays that. He was around Data when Tasha died. He knows that Data does form bonds of familiarity and is capable of grieving the absence of someone. He is not spared at all the advent of betrayal, it's why he came to Riker in the first place.
@@davidlewis5312 Data himself is to focused on "I don't have emotions."
And fails to see he is in a form of "pain" or "discomfort."
His programming seems to be "bugging" out and he keeps thinking about her.
This not really a feedback loop he mentioned, is his form of being "emotionally" hurt from the betrayal.
No emotions involved, but he is still "hurting."
I saw it the other way. Data says that he doesn't have the burden of emotion, yet he's bothered enough to seek Riker's advice on how to deal with his feelings. Frakes was always good in these scenes with Spiner, you can see him kind of shift gears and decide it's futile to try to explain it further.
@@sleepinggorilla >decide it's futile to try to explain it further.
Or perhaps that it's kinder to let someone believe they're not in pain, maybe in a way that lessens the blow.
For me the best parts of TNG was always either Data trying to find out what all this 'human being alive' stuff meant...like this scene.... and Worf trying to balance his Klingon back ground and beliefs with his human upbringing.
rtds9fan totally agree... I’d add anything with Q as well
@@KvnDWr Que the Q entering...
My faovrites were when Picards moral high ground was challenged and, at times, completely scrutinized. A principled mind is one that easily grows complacent and dull, same with Picard as a character, so it's nice to see him challenged and/or corrected from time to time.
My favorites were always Picard and Worf, but the few Barclay episodes were great. It was nice to see someone in starfleet that had anxiety and wasn't always cool under pressure.
@@jenncannon5467 I liked the way barclay was Far from a super hero like many officers
The thing you have to appreciate about Data and Soong is that although Data claims to have no emotions, he clearly is programmed with the ability to form attachments as well as possess a sense of self preservation. I believe this was how Soong improved on Lore. Lore had emotions, but not the capacity for attachment, which led to him turning murderously evil. On the flipside, Data is learning the value of life and others through the attachments he makes, so when he gains emotions they would be governed by his attachments leading to a better outcome. Just my perspective though.
Interesting.
Social attachments are the hidden stuff of family, friends, teams, communities, politics, and just about every source of cultural, scientific, or other achievements of humankind.
There is no "value of life" since "value" is a myth.
@@Mansplainer2099-jy8ps strange thing to say in the comments on a TNG clip, of all things. have you ever watched the show?
@@zyklqrswx Of course I have. TNG doesn't change what is real and what is myth.
@@Mansplainer2099-jy8ps one of Roddenberry's main ideas, which is a core concept in Star Trek as a whole, particularly in TNG, is the assertion that certain things do have inherent, objective value - life being chief among them - and that that value is self evident.
you're perfectly entitled to hold the belief that value itself as a subjective concept has no objective substance and is therefore not real, or a myth as you put it, but it's worth remembering that the show was written before those kinds of postmodern ideas entered the public consciousness. Roddenberry wouldn't have agreed with you, so the show doesn't adhere to your logic regardless of its validity.
if your beliefs are correct then there may not be any objective value for life to have in the real world, but in the world of Star Trek life is inherently valuable and we see the characters in the show argue this point on the regular. Data learning of those values through his ability to form attachments with others is one of several things which differenciate him from Lore, and that is something that's internally consistent with the philosophy of Star Trek. that you disagree with that philosophy, doesn't make that fact any less true.
I've always loved the dynamic between Riker and Data. Cuz data was always striving to be more human while Riker was striving to be a better one. And the fact that data came to riker to ask him this question, says alot about their friendship.
It's only as we grow older that we realise what a deep show this really was. Some of the dialogue is immense and helps guide our real world lives. Truly excellent writers and actors on this show.
Rikers "perhaps" is so powerful. It shows he is not convinced that Data is fortunate.
Unpleasant as it is; to feel betrayal and hurt is what makes us human. And its what also makes the joy and happiness we experience all the more precious.
I realized it at the time, as a (gifted) child, because I was starving for such depth in life (which was also my general attraction to theatre and sci-fi). I had already been reading X-Men from eight, and Stephen King at 11. So, probably unusual, but I could see it...what I see now is how we are deliberately walking away from this and being manipulated. I've watched even the actors change (although I haven't forgotten the characters).
I feel like the most consistent message throughout TNG is that you can learn something new from anyone.
“Whisper a dangerous secret to someone you care about. Now they have the power to destroy you, but they won't. This is what love is.” - Welcome To Night Vale
Or they destroy you, but not with a purpose to destroy. Because they know you need help and can do better. Like turning in somebody you love for a crime, before things get worse.
@@madman2u Maybe in that situation the power to destroy would be keeping the secret
@@windbarioth Correct. Like performing surgery. You're, in the moment, slicing open someone's flesh and invading their body. On "paper" that sounds horrific. But in actuality you're performing a life-saving measure. It just has the appearance of something more dangerous.
Or you just gave an enemy a weapon.
A secret that is shared with anyone is no longer a secret.
People always look freaked out when Data reminds them he's not human. "I have no emotions." "Oh yeah I forgot, you unsettle me..." "Thank you, sir."
A quote that I love. "Betrayal never comes from an enemy."
Indeed, perhaps Data is sparred the emotional consequences. Although... recent events have left him puzzled. Hmmm.
Hehehe exactly. If he was so spared then why...
I believe Data was being very literal in his definition of "emotional consequences" - meaning he wasn't upset or angry about the betrayal
I feel like Riker wanted to say "it's those very emotional consequences that makes us human"
There is beauty and pain in being human, a blessing and a consequence, a human is like a thorned rose (if I think about it).
Riker explaining the chance of betrayal when we trust people is a well-written piece of work. The senior officers, especially Data, wanted to trust Yar simply because of her connection to Tasha. Any similarities between Tasha and her sister ended with the last name. Tasha left her homeworld to have a better life. Her sister chose to stay. Data needed this lesson on trust and betrayal as he still had a lot to learn about being human.
0:38 Were “Data Sit Down” and “Thank You Sir” in the script? Or did the actors ever have liberty to . . . Make up transitions that worked for the scenes and their characters?
A few guest stars mentioned that they are extremely strict about sticking to the script.
@@sparkdawgeth Yeah. Avery Brooks said something similar. Akin to “If we wanted to change an “it” to an “it’s” - they had to make a phone call to production across the lot.”
@@tayzonday Well, at least it's better than giving all the "creative" choice to a random franchise void.
Ehm Ehm Kurtzsht
@@tayzonday I wonder if that changes when Berman went over to Voyager.
@@tayzonday Yeah, including one scene between Quark and Garak which involved having to bring down the boss to the set. I think they are referring to the scene between them at the beginning of The Way of the Warrior about root beer and the Federation being their only hope of salvation.
I never sunk my teeth into Star Trek but my father certainly did and I can see why
Star Trek the Next Generation was a show by itself. The show was something of a philosophical dive into the mysteries of humankind and the complexities that surround humanity. I promise after you've watched the show, you will be better for it.
My father and I used to watch this together each week when the new episode aired.
@@thedevilsadvocate3710 But be sure to skip a number of episodes. Some of them are pretttttttty bad.
You have a good dad
This freaking show was so well written. How many times has something so nebulous like trust been explained in a way you never though you needed to hear?
I never noticed it before now, but when Riker says "... perhaps." I think he's not so sure that Data *is* spared the emotional consequences. He was, after all, unable to let it go.
Exactly.
these sort of scenes were the real beauty of star trek. it was a brilliant story-telling vehicle
Tough way for Data to learn a lesson about trust and betrayal.
is there an easy way?
Star Trek TNG was the best, lots of great lessons, episodes with the emphasis on plot and story, not special effects (although they were there too).
I think for various reasons it's a tie between TNG and TOS. Nothing will surpass the relationship between Kirk and Spock.
Such a short scene, but such a powerful message. It's better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all.
As far as Riker was concerned, he knew it effected Data more than he was willing to admit.
"Perhaps"...single word, but expressed so many thoughts.
The ending where Data says he is lucky? I think Ryker disagreed.
Man this show was something else.
*Gets up and leaves*
"umm... Good day to you too Data."
This one clip does a far better job of explaining the importance of emotional bonding better than a ton of shonen anime/manga has ever accomplished.
Emotions are overrated.
@@mikeymcmikeface5599 Data’s biggest intellectual mistake is his desire to be inferior
@@iamlordstarbuilder5595 this sounds a little bit like lore talking ... ;)
@@mikeymcmikeface5599 - But bonding-especially with “your [kind of] people”, is under appreciated.
And true friendship-Eg Harry, Ron, & Hermione, “Friendship” / Philia in CS Lewis’ The Four Loves or Aristotle’s Anxient Greece, ... these are especially uncommon in today’s society.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philia
Philia (/ˈfɪliə/; Ancient Greek: φιλία), often translated "highest form of love", is one of the four ancient Greek words for love: philia, storge, agape and eros. In Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics, philia is usually translated as "friendship" or affection.[1] The complete opposite is called a phobia.
Just stop watching garbage shonen anime. Literally made for kids.
The two most human members of the crew. Love their conversations!
Society is fading from what Star Trek is. Our future could be Star Trek, but if society continues down the path it's headed, then we'll end up in a Mad Max Thunderdome future.
We don't need another hero
We don't need to know the way home
All we want is life beyond the Thunderdome
For sure. We are dumbed down and wilfully ignorant as well. The issues brought up in TNG, I doubt most people today could speak intelligently on.
Well, there WAS a third world war in Star Trek before they developed warp tech, and the 2020's in universe were pretty shitty too. What I'm getting at is maybe we're not too far off from our Star Trek future after all
Idiocracy.
@@QuietlyCurious its astounding that the generation that would've grown up with both the 60s and the 80s star trek, you would expect they would've learned valuable lessons about their fellow man, then again the shows were never big enough like star wars. And sci-fi morals sometimes go over your head becuz after all none of it is real.
From the clips I’ve seen from Star Trek, there’s real conversation and lessons taught in it, unlike what is put out (for the most part) in programming and film today
Such a brilliantly written show. That's what made Star Trek so compelling, not the action or the setpieces. Consider the last lines. Data: "Perhaps I am fortunate, Sir, to be spared the emotional consequences." Riker: "Perhaps." An entire philosophical quandary opens, one that can never quite be resolved, that brief exchange. One can imagine Riker sitting up at night contemplating that.
The actors made the show guys.
Cherish them
I like the fact that although data didn't have the emotion responses to these situations, they nevertheless impacted him, and it led to growth.
You really appreciate Spiner's acting. Data just gets up and leaves, no visible introspection or body language. It really conveys how emotionless he is.
AbramsTrek would never have a scene like this.
"Come in, Data..." ***LENS FLARE***
stop! you're making me ill.
Friends don't let friends watch the JarJar-verse.
Oh, they’d just go back in time**LENS FLARE**, prevent Tasha from dying**LENS FLARE**, blow up a planet or wipe out a few million or few billion people**LENS FLARE**, and celebrate **LENS FLARE**, unfazed, in a new timeline.
@@whatisahandle221 Sorry, JJ. Not enough lens flares 🤣
@@whatisahandle221 By the way, I just got around to watching ST Beyond a few weeks ago. I'm pretty tolerant and accepting of variations on Trek, but for the first time in my life (I was alive when TOS was still on, although I didn't see it in real time), I couldn't finish a Trek episode or film. It is SO bad, in my opinion: endless, reeling, stomach-churning, computer-generated, special effectualized action for action's sake. I hope it got better by the end. Awful.
No, you have to earn trust ...and THEN you can become a friend.
You cut out the best part when Data pauses after exiting the room.
"Legacy" - Season 4
This is such a great lesson, however hard it may be every time to open yourself and be vulnerable it has boundless benefits that you'll never realise if you don't try. Also ties into the story arc with Ro Laren betraying the TNG crew in the end. Honestly I wish I could go through life in the way that Riker describes but it seems that I ended up stuck in the conclusion that Data initially made and now ive ended up 5 years not making any social connections.
Back when Star Trek had a quality like no other. Timeless stuff.
There are betrayals that are so huge and overwhelming that " you " will never recover.
Great show. There was always something to learn from them.
Whoever wrote this nailed it perfectly! Frakes performed it perfectly!
At the start my ears detect the first seeds of the Deep Space Nine theme!
The way he says "perhaps" leads me to believe that Riker is legitimately torn
Yes, that's how I read it.
Star Trek has always been insightful in relation to many circumstances of human development, emotions and reasoning etc., I am glad I came across this video. Thanks for sharing.
Imagine you're having a conversation with data and he just gets up and leaves without warning
I read or heard something recently about how researchers into conversations polled people and determined that almost half the time, people thought that their conversations went on too long.
And then Data, as soon as he left Riker's quarters, showed signs he absolutely did feel betrayed.
Always love catching these clips. keep me up for hours
"Risk is our business!" - Captain Kirk
Moment's like this are easily marked on your memory and quickly make it a lifestyle
Perhaps? Bosh, Riker. Trust is betrayed once in a great while, but it is rewarded hundreds of times every day in simple interactions with our fellow people.
Data has a politeness and appreciation that I aspire to.
Data: So when does it get easier to deal with betrayal?
Riker: That's the neat part, it doesn't!
The Mirror Universe TNG comic books have Data handle this *very* differently.
I am a simple man, I see data, I click
These 24th century conversations are on par with my requirements.
Just drop by, ask a question, receive answer, end with final line... leave the room
"Perhaps" -Riker subtly pointing out Data not realizing he too is caught in the emotional turmoil of his "feedback loop" that we all suffer as our mind replays events trying to figure out how things could have been done different to avoid it. Any information that may have warned us it was coming. How it fix it. How to stop it. How to undo what was lost. Going over and over in our mind until we are too exhausted to think.
15 years ago, thanks TH-cam recommendations.
What is there to even say about this show anymore? Its perfection.
Has anything ever shown on TV ever described the human condition more adequately than these 90 seconds?
For an emotionless android, Data always had a great capacity for understanding and learning about the human condition. In learning what it means to be human, his discoveries and intelligent way of handling them teach us a lot about what we are ourselves.
I also find it ironic that Data seems more "emotional" than any Vulcan....lol!
Scenes like this prove that it is long past time for a Riker lead show. Im envisioning regular chats with Picard via sub space feed for advice and direction as a new minted captain.
That last line is so true, I wish to God I could be spared the emotional expenses when life turns to shit, because my life, just like millions of other people, has not just turned to shit, but has destroyed any possibility of any type of happiness for my future because I’m dying, and there’s nothing I can do about it. I’m only 53, I was first diagnosed with stage four Crohnos disease shortly after my 20th birthday, but I know I’ve had the disease my whole life, but fear stopped me from telling anyone about it, terrified I would find out that I was going to die, it’s so ironic that if I had actually gotten the help when I needed it the most, I know for a fact I would be perfectly fine right now, but because I waited until I was 20 years old and the symptoms were the worst they’ve ever been to finally start looking for help, it was already too late. I’ve had 37 operations removing 95% of my entire gastrointestinal tract, the first operation was done after my large intestine ruptured, flooding my entire abdominal cavity with toxins and killing me by the time they got me to the OR. Thankfully with the help of a defibrillator they got my heart beating again and proceeded to go on with an 11 hour long surgery, the first of many many more, the shortest one was seven hours long. Here is the worst part, because I allowed the Crohn’s disease to grow uninhibited my entire life up until I was 20, cancer began to grow on the outside of my intestine, had a sought treatment when I was just a child, the doctors all agree the cancer would have never developed, but instead? The first time, it was two small tumours the size of a pea, they had to remove the shattered remains of my large intestine to which these tumours were attached, and thankfully they were able to take out all cancerous tissue without having to go through radiation and only a small amount of chemotherapy, but for the first week after that surgery it was touch and go. They gave me a 10% chance of survival, but by some miracle I did survive, only to go on over the following 33 years to develop the cancer three more times, each time was a 5% chance of survival, each time more and more intestine was removed, but now? There’s no more intestine left to remove, I only have my stomach and esophagus, if they remove that, even though they can give me intervenous nutrition, it won’t be enough to fight off the cancer, which has now spread throughout my entire body. I’m sorry for bumming everyone out, but just hearing that line made me so angry at myself for being so stupid and cowardly when I was young and afraid. It’s my own damn fault that I’m dying, I could have prevented this, but instead I chose to hide the truth from everybody out of pure terror, and now I face the ultimate test, to see how I deal with dying and death. I’m not looking for pity or sympathy, I’m only saying this for two reasons. Firstly, just to get it off my chest, and secondly but most importantly, praying to God that at least one of you will listen to my story and go see your doctor because you yourself have been feeling sick I have been afraid to go seek treatment. For god sake don’t wait, don’t hesitate, granted my case is extremely extremely rare representing exactly 0.01% of all G.I. patients, but statistics don’t mean a damn thing anymore. I can literally feel the cancer spreading throughout my body, as it ravages the muscles, the tissues, the nerve endings, and the bone. Each week I can feel myself slipping away bit by bit, and now it’s just a question of time, but no more than a few months. I only hope to God that by telling you my story I’ll be able to help somebody prevent my fate. Thank you for listening, and please don’t take anything for granted, especially your Health. I never thought I’d be dead at 53, but that’s exactly what’s going to happen, I do believe in God, and I don’t blame him for any of this, because that’s not how it works. All I do is pray I go fast, without too much pain…………god bless ❤️
10 years ago they uploaded this video and not a single dislike. Fascinating.
Unfortunately someone disliked it, possibly just to spite you.
@@martuni1539 that's what I was thinking too
14 years and still only 6 vs 1k+ . the best ratio I've seen.
@@martuni1539 Haters gonna hate...
@@martuni1539 He trusted them not to, but they betrayed him.
Dare I say it, I think data's denial of his own emotional state is a way of coping with that very same emotional state when it gets negative.
There are those times when I forget Data's detachment from emotion, and I appreciate who he really is, but then again, he does have the feels.
The message I got from this is Trust is always a gamble. Sometimes it leads to wonderful rewards, but there's a price to pay. And maybe not trusting or getting close to anyone is emotionally safer, as Data suggests, but you also pay a price for that.
I like the character Frakes made, conveys a real sense of genuineness.
And ironically, they'd work together again on Gargoyles. Though only once in a while.
Data
Worf
Q
Easily the most intriguing and captivating characters and individual arcs on TNG.
I dunno, Picard's family relationships were pretty intense. also Lwaxana Trois's w/hers. Also Ensign Ro & Maki/Starfleet. (not to mention Picard's relationship w/the Borg)
Am I the only one that can hear the DS9 theme music at the start there. Almost bang on.
No. Several other people have commented about that.
We are lost in the loneliness like the gray clouds that stretches out beyond the roaring seas. Betrayal is the time thief the stopper of inner dreams and the extinguisher of our burning desires.
That scene would have ended so much better had Data simply leaned back in his chair, hinting that they were going to keep casually talking.
Ok I’m convinced. I’ll rewatch the series.
Strong hints of the DS9 theme from this episode which aired in 1990.
>enters room
>asserts his cybernetic superiority
>leaves without elaborating any further
the way Data simply says “energize” after Ishara’s last words to him on the transporter remained burned into my mind for years after seeing this episode, as was this scene. TNG has many more moments where excellent writing and excellent performances from the cast resonated with me for years afterwards, a true testament to the creative powers of those who so often elevated this show.
the scene directly following this is where data has her implant in hand. No words spoken but the message is clear, data is still attached to Ishara despite his (what might be described as) anger and disappointment.
Computer. Arch.
... one of these days, it'll work. Just gotta be patient.
I've seen this scene so many times and have gone through certain experiences in my own life that have conditioned myself to see any good option accepted as potentially being a path to being betrayed....as it has happened on so many occasions...I kind of expect betrayal...unlike Riker's suggestion that no one is prepared for it.
Trust takes years to build and seconds to destroy.
Is that not "reputation"?
I remember that in the Mass Effect 3, EDI, the AI of the space ship, says how the crew approach her new android-avatar body even though they can communicate with her anywhere on the ship (because she IS the ship).
The description she gives about feedback loops from such interactions and how she says she uses the term 'like' as shorthand for the desire to interact in that way more makes me think that the machine understanding of emotion isnt so far off from the biological one, it's just worded more rationally.
Yes, rikers perhaps just hits different reflection of the pain of The human condition on one hand jealous of data is lack of emotion at the same time wishing that Data could feel
I'm not sure Data was spared the emotional consequence. He is having repetitive thoughts and regrets for trusting and wondering why he didn't know they would be betrayed. Sounds exactly like an emotional consequence to trusting the wrong person.
sure sounds like it. Riker wasn't sure either.
Exactly.
the philosophical brilliance of true star trek compared to its modern monsterous hipster form. worthy of tears
Great wisdom in rikers words
I am reminded by a quote from Usual Suspects: one cannot be betrayed if one has no people
The TV was different back then. I miss the thoughtful shows...
I ONLY WATCH these skits because of my My deceased Mother!..she loved this show and she knew how much I told her...THIS WAS BULLSHIT!...I luv you Ma💎
Data seems to have at least a rudimentary perception of emotions, however lacking a chemical response in his body like we do he doesn't get overwhelmed by them and can process, break down and analyze his experiences on a very deterministic level which is also why he seeks council. He understands that something is missing and avoids associating a meaning to something that isn't fully in his grasp.
1:20 - what I find funny is that Data *just* said that he couldn't stop thinking about her - that he found it distracting and hard to focus - that's an 'emotional' fallout of a sort
It almost feels like he's reassuring himself - that it will pass - because he doesn't *really* feel things...
Perhaps I am fortunate, Sir, to be spared the emotional consequences. Indeed, Mr. Data
not what he said. missed the point of the scene.
That beginning horn solo sounded like the DS9 theme
I love he just gets up like done now emotional conversation over
Data says he has no emotions, since he wasn't directly programmed with them, but he's so complex that it's implied throughout the series that he really does have at least limited emotions that he's developed over time as he's evolved.
Agreed. It makes sense for them to form as his social skills improve.
Didn't he get an emotion chip at some point?
Data just slapping in Riker's face how fast he'll get over this... lol
"Perhaps I am fortunate to be spared the emotional consequences."
Let that line marinate a bit. Data was not programmed with our ability to experience anger, sorrow, etc. And yet, in past episodes, he was ready to murder a truly despicable person, mourned the passing of Tasha Yar (and even keeps a keepsake from her), and numerous other moments where he experienced something approaching emotions. It was not simply him processing the experience and reacting accordingly. Data is conscious of when he is "feeling" something.
Not being programmed to experience emotions on the conscious level does not mean he cannot experience them otherwise. He sulked in his tent like Achilles. He experienced disappointment at losing a game. He was willing to sacrifice Picard's life to stand up for the rights of the Exo-comps. These are not the actions of a cold, calculating machine that lacks emotions. These are the actions of a conscious being with morality, who chooses to do what they feel is right, and to respond to a situation where expression is otherwise expected, but to never be able to express it themselves.
Data uttered this line knowing he couldn't express it, but as hurt as anyone else by the betrayal.
I watched this episode last night on Netflix and afterwards thought "that was a really great conversation, I hope there's a clip of it on TH-cam". And then this morning this video is recommended to me. Spooky