It's interesting how out of everybody, Data seemed to have the easiest time adapting to Jellico's style. He is a captain with zero nuance, and since he has no emotions, Data never needs you to sugar-coat anything. "Mr. Data, I want to be in X position in Y minutes." Indeed, Data may be the perfect first officer for Jellico. As much as Jellico disliked Richer, he liked Data.
Data is an android which permits him a level of resilience most humans simply don't have. Data can calculate within seconds on the fly, never really sleeps, easily shows no outward emotion. It seems like what Jellico really wanted was a ship of super advanced androids to act out all his commands as and when he wished.
Yep. Data adapted to the new role great. In fact he also adapted to the role of captain great in the 2 part episode "Gambit". On the other hand, I always thought Riker was kind of a shitty first officer (even if he was a good character).
"I want that android in a red uniform RIGHT NOW." However, if Data became First Officer, he would question Jellico as well (where appropriate). Once upon a time, Data dressed down Worf about when and where a First Officer should perform his duty to call out the Captain (i.e., in private). He knows how this works. If Jellico was about to do something silly, Data would pull him aside and provide a second opinion. He _would_ obey if overruled, though.
Jellico needed things done without question. truth be told .... Riker took a lot of bullets for other crew members cuz a lot of them didn't like how he did things but they didn't want to/were afraid to say anything.
@@CharlesUrban Also Data as you say would take Jellico aside to voice any concerns he had with Jellico's actions always showing respect for the rank of Captain where as here Riker questions Jellico in front of Troi and comes off as being argumentative if not insubordinate to his CO. Something you just don't do in the military even if you think you are right.
@@taopilot2669 I think any of the TNG Finale Two-Parters, (except for maybe Descent), would've at least been on par with if not better than the TNG films (with First Contact as the possible exception)
David Warner too. It helps that he and Patrick Stewart have been friends for a long time (having met during their theater days), they have a great working relationship, and it really comes out in these scenes.
Jellico was obviously displeased at what sort of cruel stunt the Cardassians were pulling but felt the best way to stop them was to find a way to beat them later on which he did. It seems to me like Jellico's simply blunt and wants things done a certain way which didn't sit well with most of the rest of the Enterprise's crew especially Riker.
Skate..I dont see him doing anything wrong though. As a 17yr old I THOUGHT HE WAS A A××HOLE. But when I did my little stint in the NAVY...30 YEARS LATER. JELLICO'S HANDS WERE TIED IN TERMS OF HAVING TO LET PICARD TAKE ONE FOR THE TEAM. PLENTY OF REAL LIFE DARK GOVERMENT OPPS DO IT ALL THE TIME HELL THE US MILITARY. ESPECIALLY THE SUBMARINE FLEET. BUT ID RATHER DIE ON A STARSHIP, THEN DIE ON A SUB.
@@leomartin5965 people not being in the military generally do not understand how rank and order work. You get a taste of it in civilian life. Douche bosses and all. But you can generally walk away from those. You can not when you are in the military. And you do things well past what you think is fair or even safe. Yes Jellico could have done some things better, but so too the crew. They just were used to having a lighter hand. But these were exceptional times.
I wish we could have seen more of David Warner's Gul Madred in a future episode or episodes. Watching and listening to him and Patrick Stewart is what made this episode stand out. No technobabble. No special effects. Just two great actors in a room exchanging words. This remains one of my favorites from TNG and all of Trek.
@@351cleavland I like to think the writers could have found a way. If we were able to see Q and Lwaxana (shudder) multiple times, certainly there could have been another story for Picard and Madred. Alas, won't happen now.
So either Picard was following Starfleet orders (which Jellico refused to acknowledge) or he trespassed into a foreign power with the intent to do damage, which means the Cardassians could have paraded him around and told everyone about how the flagship's captain engaged in unsanctioned black ops. Way to go Starfleet!
@@SamStuart07 None that Starfleet Intelligence would admit to having, apparently. And then there's Section 31, the wing that no one knows exists (or else they know better than to blab about it). Those jerks might have spent their time more effectively by slinking around in this mess to see what the Cardassians had going.
Jellico was not in a position to acknowledge Picard's orders. He was under orders not to. It was not his call to make, those orders came down from an admiral, and if Jellico had tried Riker's tactic it probably would've gotten him court martialed and started a war. Riker was acting emotionally, which is understandable, but he was giving his tirade to the wrong person. Jellico was just following the orders he was given, and protecting the people under his command to the best of his ability. Disobeying an admiral's orders just to appease your first officer who is acting irrationally would not be the best idea.
Jellico: "They must have known that we'd change all his access codes... delete his porn..." Data: "Sir, I did transfer all his porn to your quarters as you ord..." Jellico: "Shut up Data!"
Ronny Cox is fantastic at playing an authority figure people hate. He plays Jellico like he played Cohagen in Total Recall. "I don't give you enough information to think! Do what you're told, that's what you do.".
Senator Kinsey in Stargate as well. God I couldn't stand him and his holier than thou "America is greater than the Goa'uld" bullshit. Then wants to run away to the alpha site first chance he got.
Ronny Cox subtly showing the fact that Jellico doesn't want to lose Picard but needs to keep everything in his favor is some of the best acting on the show. You can even see it on Troi that she kind of knows how he feels but is not being tactful about it. GOD this episode is so good.
Troi is just trying to undermine the crew. You see what Chakotay does in criticizing Janeway for her actions in part 1 of "Scorpion" had reason and heart. Janeway really sometimes borderline let her pride get to her, and Chakotay called her out for it. But here Troi was just being spiteful and mean and downright unprofessional and insubordinate to Jellico. At least Riker call it as he saw it, he couldn't stand Jellico but he respected his posture and refusal to fold under pressure, or questioning, to quote "GoodFellas."
The Enterprise crew was actually lucky Jellico was in command; Riker asked ''is he alive?'' when Lemec said the Cardassians had captured Picard; thereby giving away any plausible deniability; then he wanted to start a rescue mission that would have almost certainly gone disastrously wrong; that Admiral was right in putting Jellico in command of the Enterprise during the mission; Riker would have screwed up royally.
Jellico was also an outsider without such a personal connection to the crew or to Picard, beyond respect for a fellow officer. He was extremely well versed in how to deal with Cardassians, even in diplomacy, as strange as that sounds. His silly little power plays were effective, just as he expected them to be, and were precisely what they needed to take control over the negotiations. When they revealed the Picard was captured, Jellico was level headed enough to not risk starting a war or the lives of millions in a desperate attempt to rescue one man who might already be dead. Instead, he bided his time, took the proper steps to outmaneuver them, THEN once the Federation was in a dominant position, he was able to leverage his power to get Picard freed and returned to his ship.
@@randomrazr it's about getting someone to pretend, to lie not to you but to themselves. If you can make a man lie to himself, to doubt reality, you can make him do anything.
@@randomrazr The tourmentor wanted to break Picard. If you can get him to lie about a simple fact like how many lights there are, you will have broken his will. He eventually would be asked about military secrets. Excellent acting by two masters of the trade, David Warner and Patrick Stewart. It's hard to believe that such torture exists today and likely inspired the methods depicted in this episode. Thankfully Picard started with a strong will. (A credit to his achievement to becoming a Starship captain. Theybare not pushovers. ) It is likely if they hadn't been forced to release him, he may have broken sooner or later. He himself admitted it.
The operation here was not conducted by the Obsidian Order. From Andrew Robinson's book, "A Stitch In Time" he explains that the Central Command had their own intelligence apparatus, who were not NEARLY up to the same level of professionalism as the Order. It stands to reason that had the Order carried this out, they likely could have got the intelligence without any stupid tricks in luring a Starfleet officer to one of their planets. This operation by the Central Command was sloppy. They lured Picard in without even verifying if he knew anything about Minos Korva in the first place. When you dig down to it, the structure of the storyline is a bit of a mess. If they KNEW that the Enterprise was going to be the command ship, how did they find this out in the first place? Surely that information would be part of any wider strategic plans regarding the system in the first place? So if they somehow knew the Enterprise was supposed to be command ship, why would they need Picard to know the rest of the plans in the first place? Its all a bit odd. Or perhaps, myself being a writer.....I'm way over-analyzing it from my own writing perspective 😁 😁 I hate questions in a storyline ha!
Here we see a fundamental difference between Captain Picard and Captain Jellico. As first officer aboard the U.S.S. Hood, Commander Riker refused to let Captain DeSoto beam down to a dangerous planet. When Captain Picard was in the process of selecting a first officer for the Enterprise, he initially thought that Riker's file looked like all the others, an exemplary service record, glowing letters of recommendation that tell you nothing, etc. Picard was about to set Riker's file aside when he saw the notation about Riker refusing to let his previous commanding officer beam into a potentially hazardous situation. It was then that Picard knew he'd found his first officer. Picard wanted a second-in-command who would stand up to him, who would tell him when he was wrong, and defy him when he felt it was necessary. Captain Jellico, on the other hand, was the type of commanding officer who wanted his subordinates to carry out all of his orders without question. During his time on the Enterprise, Jellico completely ignored his entire chain of command and refused to listen to any concerns from his officers about the orders he was giving. By contrast, Picard listened to what his officers had to say before making his decisions. And here, Jellico relieved Riker of duty, for doing exactly what Picard chose to make Riker his first officer for doing.
I recall Admiral Pressman asking if he looks for insubordination when he looks for officers after hearing the story of how he chose Riker. However I don't think it fully applies here because Jelico does in fact listen to his staff and doesn't ignore them. He just didn't like Riker and Riker didn't like him, its that simple.
@@Bitchslapper316 >> I recall Admiral Pressman asking if he looks for insubordination when he looks for officers after hearing the story of how he chose Riker. I remember that. Pressman argued that it was more important for officers to trust their captain's judgment. He said that in a crisis, there was no time for explanations, and orders needed to be followed or else lives could be lost. That sounds like Jellico's view of command as well. >> Jelico does in fact listen to his staff and doesn't ignore them I don't know about that. Jellico ordered the Enterprise to change to a four-shift rotation. ... Why he did that, I still don't know. I've never served in the military, but I've seen people who have, and they argued that when you're preparing for an impending crisis, you should be changing from a three-shift rotation to a two-shift rotation, so that everybody works 12 hours a day instead of 8. These people said that changing to a four-shift rotation and reducing working hours from 8 to 6 during an emergency makes no sense. But that's not the point. My point is that the Enterprise's department heads said that changing to a four-shift rotation would cause significant personnel problems, but when Riker attempted to address this with Jellico, his response was, "You will tell the department heads that as of now, the Enterprise is on a four-shift rotation. I don't want to talk about it. Get it done." Jellico seemed to express disbelief that Riker would even attempt to refute the wisdom of Jellico's orders instead of carrying out the orders immediately and without question. In a later scene, Geordi expresses frustration because Jellico is giving the Engineering crew orders that they cannot possibly carry out with the time and resources they are being given, and Riker tells him that he's not alone. It's the same with every other department. I do remember the scene in which Jellico is talking to Geordi about the plan to mine the Cardassian ships, and Jellico does listen when Geordi tells him that he should have Riker pilot the shuttlecraft to plant the mines. On the whole, though, Jellico never struck me as the kind of commanding officer who cared to listen to anybody, especially if they're offering objections to his orders. He just wanted and expected his subordinates to obey him without question.
and in hindsight ... I can see WHY Jellico was adamant about a four-shift rotation, but transitioning to that from three on the fly is drastic with NO prep time. that essentially WAS what the department heads told Will.
Riker was a good character. But a shitty first officer. His entire gimmick was that he would never let his captain beam down into a dangerous situation. Yet he caved into Picard every time for the entire 7 years of TNG.
And the fish is out of the ready room. (The thing that I heard was that even Patrick Stewart hated the fish tank, felt it didn't "follow" with the ideals of Starfleet, keeping an animal in confinement)
"...get it done..." Jellico's style of leadership would work well, but would ONLY work on a newly engaged crew. A crew that has worked and lived together as closely as aboard Enterprise-D could not hope to run as efficiently as Jellico wanted.
I think that Riker from Seasons 1 and 2 would have worked splendidly with Jellico. Riker relaxed a lot over the years, becoming somewhat big-headed and entitled with age. Picard also mellowed into an easy-going captain with a lot of respect for Riker, especially since the Borg incident. In a way, Riker and Picard kind of run the ship between them. Maybe Riker saw himself as co-captain? That's what he became in those later seasons and Picard seemed fine with that. Jellico is very similar to Picard from Season 1. When he arrived, it's as though Riker is reduced in rank overnight - and his ego is bruised. He sulks, disobeys orders, fights back and sympathises with outraged crew members, in a way stirring up hatred for Jellico, even going to Picard for help. This isn't the behaviour of a military man. Maybe Picard is to blame for stoking Riker's ego and allowing an inappropriate closeness to form between them? They have a father/son style relationship in those later seasons. When Picard is presumed dead in Gambit, Riker is devestated. It's worth noting that Picard doesn't think highly of Riker in Yesterday's Enterprise. It's also worth noting that duplicate Thomas Riker joined the Maquis and stole a Federation starship. It seems to me that Picard is keeping post-Season 3 Riker on the straight and narrow. Shelby once described Riker as standing in a great man's shadow. Riker kept asking Troi why he keeps passing up promotions to remain under Picard - asking if he's too comfortable there? Maybe he knows that he's lost his way? It's a shame that rebellious Riker was never developed further. There's a bad officer in Riker that would have been very entertaining.
They *should* have kept Thomas Riker and let Will move on to reach his true potential. They basically ended up ruining *both* characters with that decision
Oh come dudes... After the unwatchable woke car crash of Disco and the pretty abysmal S1 and S2 of Picard... I have to be honest and admit that S3 Picard was actually brilliant. Matalas walked the tightrope between the classics and the new "agenda" pretty well... Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion ... The list is right... Other than I would add S3 Picard to it... Don't hate me!
Except Riker's just letting his personal feelings for the captain cloud his judgment and lose sight of the big picture. In the reverse Picard would've handled things better.
@@InfernosReaperWhat "track record"? Troi reported her findings that Jellicoe was both insecure and a loose cannon. There's no means for mistake or misperception. Starfleet put her in her role because she is exactly correct in it. And Jellicoe demonstrated himself a frightened, loose cannon.
@@RideAcrossTheRiverYou talk as if you've never actually watched the show. Troi is somehow worse at her job than Worf is at his. Think about this rationally for a second. If she was right, *how* did that man become a *captain* and why would they put *him* in charge of the flagship?
It’s not the only time. IIRC he takes command of another ship, as part of a fleet deploying a sensor net to catch cloaked Romulans. Another time is where he is part of an elaborate simulation where Riker is being interrogated.
He did whatever Jellico said without question which was the kind of First Officer he wanted. Picard chose Riker because Riker would challenge his judgment.
He's absolutely right here. Picard went on a covert mission and he must have expected disavowal if caught. Neither can a mere Captain make the call to admit an official secret like that when an entire sector is on the line.
If Jellico had stayed on the Enterprise, a lot of characters would have been better off. Picard gets time to recuperate from his experience with Madred. Riker gets tired of dealing with Jellico and takes his own ship. Data gets the first officer job and rocks it like he did in CoC. Worf gets to work with a WARRIOR captain.
As much as I hate Jellico, this is the one argument where I side with him. Not the part where he removed Riker but the part where he doesn’t acknowledge that Picard is under Starfleet orders. Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t this normal? Isn’t it like in Mission Impossible where that tape says that if they’re caught, they would be disavowed. If Starfleet confirms that Picard was under orders, wouldn’t that be considered an act of war? Or maybe I didn’t understand something. Having said that, relieving someone purely because they questioned their orders was way over the top.
Jellicoe still has still the option to acknowledge Picard's status as a Federation citizen, demand that Federation citizens are not maltreated, that they receive consular assistance without acknowledging specifically why he's there. It helps that this planet Picard was caught on was supposed to be uninhabited and the Cardassians have their own dirty laundry they might want to be coy about.
I do appreciate Jellicoe's superb understanding of ship equipment and design. His flaw is that he doesn't understand people or that people run the ships.
When you look at it, Riker was literally the one Jellico had a beef with although he did berate Geordi for a short time. Jellico was respectful to Deanna and even Worf. As for Data, Jellico knew a machine wouldn't argue back and would accept anything thrown at him.
Except shaking everything up was not what was needed. The improvements and mods to ship functions, great, but it's irrational to implement huge changes while reducing number of technical personnel to far less than was needed for the task. When there's a train crash, you don't send your ER personnel to guard duty.
as often as I tend to agree with Riker ..... Jellico was right, and Starfleet threw Picard out under the bus (which Jellico bailed BOTH Picard and Starfleet out of, eventually ... with Riker's help). ignoring the fact that Picard never should have been on that secret op to begin with .... Starfleet would NOT under any circumstances acknowledge that Picard, Crusher, and Worf were sanctioned to infiltrate Cardassian space ... nor should Starfleet do so.
Jellico has a totally different command style from Picard. Love him or hate him, if the mission is to fuck Cardassians in the ass, Jellico is the right captain.
@@2bituser569 There's a scene in 1984 where one of the characters is in a similar situation and told to say that they could see a different number of lights to what there were. More of a rip-off that a reference IMO.
4:21 Does anyone know or wonder what led Data to this shirt change? Knowing Capt. Jellico, it's certainly within his style to order Data to change divisions but I'm unsure if he can give such an order. If he couldn't give that order, what would behoove Data to switch divisions?
Jellico had a certain style aboard his ship and crew and my likely ordered Data to wear a red uniform. Later, in "Gambit", Data was acting captain with Worf as first officer while both retained their gold uniforms. It just seems to depend on who was in charge.
I find it extremely difficult for me to watch this episode now. The reason is that I have a really special hatred to Senator Kinsey. The actor does a good job as Edward Jellico (and sadly I see a lot of traits for the SG1 character), but because he did an excellent job to make you hate Kinsey, I just can't swap out my feelings.
Believe me, I know how you feel about Kinsey. After seeing his debut episode, I blew up after the episode was over and ranted angrily about what a stupid jerk he was. I wanted to punch him in the face. As for Jellico, he's actually a good man whose blunt and has high standards for those under his command. He'd likely hate Senator Kinsey and would want to punch him in the face.
Everything that Riker did in this scene was influenced by lack of judgement. Captain Jellico was right to make the call he did, but he also needed a different perspective than the one Riker could offer at the time. He didn't want to acknowledge war between the Federation and the Cardassians, very good diplomatically strategy might I say... But he needed more time so that he could work out how he was going to get Picard back while also keeping him protected should hell break out.
I'm really curious if David Warner and Patrick Stewart were ever in any theater plays or other movies / shows before Star Trek. They're both around the same age and both amazing actors. Both of these guys are really at the top of their acting game in this episode (probably the second best episode right underneath The Inner Light).
Garak would have viewed him as a novice when it comes to interrogations. A few times picard got to him making him lose his cool. Garak would have gotten that intel out of picard.
@@jacksonheathen2092 He was arrogant too! He belittles Jellico and the Enterprise crew, acts like he's better. He just doesn't show it as much for a reason that makes him much worse than Madred or Dakot - he's a traitor. I've known slimy people with that same personality. It was rather realistic. Looks at my maternal lineage. Won't say anymore. And Cardassians were based on the Spaniards - -ez-surnamed people with Frank Lopez English accented, Allied oppressors. My dad's family are white Spaniard Frank Lopez English accented -ez-surnamed Spaniards. My mom's family are Spaniard but they're Hispanic but pseudo-Hispanic. They're traitors just like Lemec.
Disagree. Removing Riker cleared the way for Jellico to come up with the plan to trap the Cardassians. He knew if he got those mines on their ships, he'd get Picard back anyway. Riker let his passions get in the way of his duty to the Federation. Even Spock wouldn't agree to the Cardassian's demands.
Well, I can't think of a better choice for an intelligence mission than the captain most likely to know all the area defense plans. Too bad Starfleet doesn't have, say, an intelligence branch that could handle things like this. If they did, they could call it... oh idk, maybe "Section 31."
Captain Jellico is a completely different character from Senator Kinsey. Also, Jellico was put in a bind here. If he admitted to Picard's actions being sanctioned by Starfleet, it'd weaken their position at the negotiating table and make the Federation look bad which could've led to the Federation losing the strategically important system in dispute to the Cardassians. Jellico was thinking of the greater good here as painful as it was for him to let the Cardassians torture Picard. Riker however didn't see it that way as his own judgement was blinded by his friendship with Picard and desire to see him protected but Jellico figured this out which is why he relieved Riker of duty since Riker's judgement was impaired. I get the anger of the fans though towards Jellico, I felt the same anger towards him when I first saw this episode.
Back in the day how I would record TNG on my VHS and watch it on my Sony Trinitron in my room. Then on weekends hook up my other VCR to edit the tapes commercial free and put those tapes in the collection to watch commercial free. A while back I found one of the tapes I did not edit the commercials and watched that one. The things we did before TH-cam and the internet for entertainment.
So, at what point did someone ignore the thought that it's kind of stupid to send senior officers on basic intelligence missions? Especially officers with highly sensitive knowledge? No? No one?
All were high profile positions on the flagship. Surely, news of Picard as Locutus was common knowledge to make his face recognized by foreign militaries.
Yea, the premise is ridiculous. A Captain's skill and value is their ability to command a large group of individuals, not a two man team. This robbed a junior officer's ability to earn points to rise in stature for recognition. I'd be furious if I was a junior security officer who trains on a daily basis for tactical assignments and heard I've been bypassed over this.
Hey it's JeanLuc Picard! No I"m not. I'm Joe.... Lieutenant.... Joe...... Tricorder. Yes, Lt Joe Tricorder. From.... the USS.... umm...ennnnnnntrapment. These are my companions Beberly Crasher and some Klingon we met. I think his name is Woof or something. You can kill him, whatever. Don't even know him.
One of the best and worst episodes of Trek ever. It's good because the scenes between Madred and Picard are unforgettable; not so good because the circumstances required to get Picard in that interrogation room are so ridiculous and contrived. Why didn't Starfleet get a specialised team to investigate the metagenic weapon rumors instead of bridge officers from an important flagship?
I can just imagine the kind of office or training camp they would stick Captain Jellico the rest of the time, any other crew underneath him would mutiny within a month. You don't leave that guy in charge of anything.
@@stevencoardvenice no war time crisis is the worse time to do fundamental changes. Jellico is a toxic commander who.in eariler times would get fragged. Likely with the pin pulled. He will get the bare minimum oit of his crew nothing more. While both Picard and Kirk got that extra mile out of them. Jellico is just short of capt Sobel from band of brothers
He knew that Jellico liked his people to dress appropriately. Once made aware he was acting first officer, he would have ensured that he had the right uniform on.
Riker was completely wrong here. He questioned the Captain in front of the crew, even if it was just Troi. The real question I always had was how Riker ducked a court martial for getting the Enterprise captured easily by the Ferengi just two episodes before this one. It must have been that influence from Admiral Pressman before he burned that bridge.
I always wondered about the lights the cardassian interrogator had above his desk. I gather Picard wasn't the first subject to have to face the Four Lights Challenge. Likewise the restraint system he also had in his office. He's obviously the man they bring their toughest, high value subjects to when they want someone broken. Kinda like Guantanamo bay.
Jellico: "Maybe it's time you found other responsibilities. You're relieved of command." Me: "I declare you mentally unfit for command and therefore remove you from command of the Enterprise!"
@@agm8554 Troi doesn't have such authority. Riker could relieve him of command under very specific circumstances regarding regulations, procedures and federation laws. Crusher as chief medical officer could relieve him based on physical or mental capacity. Troi was more of a psychologist and protocol officer.
@@seanwebb605 As ship's counselor, she has the authority to relieve of duty anyone she determines to be mentally or psychologically incapable of performing said duty. In addition, Riker could have removed Jellico here as Jellico failed to perform his duty to retrieve Picard by any means necessary.
That's what I eventually realized too. Jellico was thinking of the greater good, the big picture so to speak and trying to protect the Federation's best interests. He respected Picard but wasn't friends with him which is why he was able to keep his cool plus he had the personality type to keep his cool. Riker however WAS friends with Picard and too emotionally involved to think rationally which led him to be insubordinate towards Jellico. It doesn't make Riker crappy or anything, he's just the personable type who sometimes isn't able to separate his personal feelings from his duty. Jellico saw this and realized that Riker's continued presence would be detrimental to the mission so he had no option but to relieve him of duty.
Curious how the Kardassians. (ooopss!) had theta band metagenic devices. I wonder if they were in cooperation with Shinzo & the Remans? Also, why is Data wearing a red uniform, yet he wore a gold uniform when in command of the Enterprise & the Sutherland? It’s also a good thing he wasn’t in TOS wearing a red uniform, otherwise he would have been toast.
It was Jellico's command so when he relieved Riker of duty it was intended to be permanent. Hence, Data put on the red uniform to being in conformity with his new role.
Another great Star Trek appearance by David Warner ! Dick Jones being a right bastard like he was to Robocop too. I love it how Picard only needed to tell his captor that there were five lights and he wasn’t prepared to do that when there were clearly only four🤨. I’m sure Captain Kirk would have done the same...... or would he? 🤔
If Picard had said there were five lights, he’d have shown a willingness to say whatever the Cardassian Union wanted. The Cardassians were programming him to be their parrot, Willing to read out whatever they put in front of him. The only way he could protect the Federation from that kind of morale loss was to tell the truth to his captur, who himself admitted, he believed Picard... I.e. “It doesn’t matter what your truth is... you will accept our new truth.”
Riker's duty is to suggest alternative courses of action to his captain, but he also has a duty to not undermine his captain's authority, say by losing his cool in the presence of other officers. The situation is similar to the one between Data and Worf, when Data became captain and Worf his first officer, and they properly resolved it. They should have had this discussion in private.
That is true. Contrast it with Data in "Time's Arrow". When Picard leaves him off the away team (on account of his severed head turning up on Earth), Data disagrees with his actions... but he discusses it with him in private.
What really pissed Jellico off was Riker questioned his orders in front of Troi. Had Riker expressed the disagreement in private at worse he probably would’ve just gotten a reprimand.
The transition to Gellico to Picard was easy compared to switching Pircard for Kirk. At least some characters remember how it used to be... that aren't Bones. Imagine if they killed off Picard. TNG barely remembers Roddenberry's vision of the future, Sure they did wonders for Synthetic rights but they'll trade it for action in a heartbeat.
teenagerinsac Idk he didn’t want “guns” like the rifle seen in the second trek pilot. He preferred trek like we saw in tmp and tng s1-2 which fans generally hated or weren’t enthusiastic about.
@@teenagerinsac sorry to burst your bubble, but not only was he progressive but military service is not contraindicative of progressive ideology, especially at that time.
I actually like Jellicoe rather a lot. Starfleet sent him because he has the stomach to deal with the Cardassians and if that means Riker needs to shut up and follow orders or that Troi should wear a uniform like everyone else then so be it.
You can see that jellico did not want to do what he did with riker just as the commercial breaks. There is nothing pleased in his body language. In fact you can tell that he is seeing how things are going wrong and he is worried. He knows that this could be the Domino that leads to mutiny on the ship and, just as importantly, lead to the utter destruction of the negotiations and get Picard killed
The best management, even in war time, is someone who shows few flaws and gets along with his or her team. That's the message that's lost here with so many people. The writers made this episode to show how NOT to be a captain, because while the job gets done at the end of the day, being an arrogant prick will get you nowhere without a loyal crew. You will notice later in the episode that this is exactly what happens.
On the contrary it also shows you how complacency can negatively effect your crew. Even when knowing that this could be the verge of a new war everyone is complaining which is fine it is hard work but it wouldn't compare with what could be coming and jellico expresses he wishes he had the time to earn everyone's trust but unlike them and especially Riker he understood what was at line.
@@nantohoohken >> everyone is complaining which is fine it is hard work Geordi said that he didn't mind hard work. The issue he was having with Jellico's orders was that Jellico wasn't giving him the time he needed to get the work done. Data said that realigning the warp coil in two days' time was possible, but only if they utilized the entire Engineering department, and then only if everybody in Engineering worked around the clock for the full two days. But despite knowing this, Jellico transferred a full third of the Engineering crew to Security, and still expected the warp coil to be realigned. Personally, I have never believed that under Picard's command, the Enterprise crew was soft, relaxed, pampered, or any of the other things that people in the Comments have called them. I believe that the Enterprise crew worked really hard as a matter of normal routine, and that was how they managed to earn a place on the Federation's flagship in the first place. There were certainly several times during the course of the series, like the Borg invasion in "The Best of Both Worlds," when the crew must have pushed themselves to work really hard to prepare the ship for the crisis they were facing. They just had an issue with being expected to complete work that required far more time and resources than they were being given. The real problem was that when you only have 44 minutes in which to create a dramatic situation and resolve it, writers sometimes take the easy way out of having what should be an extremely skilled crew make stupid decisions in order to facilitate the plot. Some commentors on these videos have brought up the Enterprise crew's pitiful performance against a group of Ferengi pirates using two old Birds of Prey in the episode "Rascals" as proof that they needed to be straightened out, or something like that. I don't think it was really the writers' intent to make the Enterprise crew look incompetent in that episode, even if that was the result for many viewers. It was just that the plot required the Ferengi to take control of the Enterprise, and with only a very short amount of time that could be given to the battle sequence, the writers decided to take the easy way out (as they so often did), and had the Enterprise officers give a far weaker showing than they should have.
I hate that this show is so good that I can't watch a short clip without needing to see the rest of the episode.
Omg. Yes. Same feeling. Always:" Oh nice clip."................................."Wait! Where is the whole episode? I need to see it"
It's exactly the same with me I must go and see the rest by now. :( :) 6x10 + 6x11 ep. Chain of Command
You’re not alone.
@@joe-tn3rb Yes.
@@lionlord8784 thank you
"I had to kill Picard because he made a mistake"
"Now it's time to erase that mistake!"
"You call this a glitch!?"
ICWYDT ;)
Dick... YOU'RE FIRRRRRRRRED!
Didn't you hear? He was frozen after his mile long arms saved him from the fall!
Red Foreman against Picard? Man 2 90s heavyweights
It's interesting how out of everybody, Data seemed to have the easiest time adapting to Jellico's style. He is a captain with zero nuance, and since he has no emotions, Data never needs you to sugar-coat anything. "Mr. Data, I want to be in X position in Y minutes." Indeed, Data may be the perfect first officer for Jellico. As much as Jellico disliked Richer, he liked Data.
Data is an android which permits him a level of resilience most humans simply don't have. Data can calculate within seconds on the fly, never really sleeps, easily shows no outward emotion. It seems like what Jellico really wanted was a ship of super advanced androids to act out all his commands as and when he wished.
Yep. Data adapted to the new role great. In fact he also adapted to the role of captain great in the 2 part episode "Gambit".
On the other hand, I always thought Riker was kind of a shitty first officer (even if he was a good character).
"I want that android in a red uniform RIGHT NOW."
However, if Data became First Officer, he would question Jellico as well (where appropriate). Once upon a time, Data dressed down Worf about when and where a First Officer should perform his duty to call out the Captain (i.e., in private). He knows how this works. If Jellico was about to do something silly, Data would pull him aside and provide a second opinion. He _would_ obey if overruled, though.
Jellico needed things done without question.
truth be told .... Riker took a lot of bullets for other crew members cuz a lot of them didn't like how he did things but they didn't want to/were afraid to say anything.
@@CharlesUrban Also Data as you say would take Jellico aside to voice any concerns he had with Jellico's actions always showing respect for the rank of Captain where as here Riker questions Jellico in front of Troi and comes off as being argumentative if not insubordinate to his CO. Something you just don't do in the military even if you think you are right.
This double episode could've easily been one of the TNG movies.
Would've been better than most of them.
@@taopilot2669 404 Lie Not Found
It would've been better then the third star trek tng movie
Big budget movies can lack the heart and soul of the series, focusing too much on effects instead of story telling.
@@taopilot2669 I think any of the TNG Finale Two-Parters, (except for maybe Descent), would've at least been on par with if not better than the TNG films (with First Contact as the possible exception)
Great episode. Some of Patrick Stewart's best acting of his entire career.
David Warner too. It helps that he and Patrick Stewart have been friends for a long time (having met during their theater days), they have a great working relationship, and it really comes out in these scenes.
He worked with Amnesty International to make sure the torture and his reactions would be as realistic as possible.
There! Are! FOUR! Lights!
You should see how Picard is?
He was trained in classical Shakespeare, just like William Shatner. Too bad today's A list stars don't appreciate that kind of fundamental training.
And finally the Cardassians reveal their hand and Jellico plays it cool as cucumber. Jellico was abrasive but he had a way of doing things.
Jellico was obviously displeased at what sort of cruel stunt the Cardassians were pulling but felt the best way to stop them was to find a way to beat them later on which he did.
It seems to me like Jellico's simply blunt and wants things done a certain way which didn't sit well with most of the rest of the Enterprise's crew especially Riker.
Skate..I dont see him doing anything wrong though. As a 17yr old I THOUGHT HE WAS A A××HOLE. But when I did my little stint in the NAVY...30 YEARS LATER. JELLICO'S HANDS WERE TIED IN TERMS OF HAVING TO LET PICARD TAKE ONE FOR THE TEAM. PLENTY OF REAL LIFE DARK GOVERMENT OPPS DO IT ALL THE TIME HELL THE US MILITARY. ESPECIALLY THE SUBMARINE FLEET. BUT ID RATHER DIE ON A STARSHIP, THEN DIE ON A SUB.
He was lost lmao
@@leomartin5965 people not being in the military generally do not understand how rank and order work. You get a taste of it in civilian life. Douche bosses and all. But you can generally walk away from those. You can not when you are in the military. And you do things well past what you think is fair or even safe. Yes Jellico could have done some things better, but so too the crew. They just were used to having a lighter hand. But these were exceptional times.
@@tilasole3252starfleet isn’t the military.
Massive respect once again to the late, great David Warner as Gul Madred.
DAVID Warner, but yes, he was an exceptional actor; in my opinion, his talent was the same level as Patrick Stewart’s
@@michiganman9599 Damn, had no idea I goofed there. Thanks for the heads up, just corrected.
I wish we could have seen more of David Warner's Gul Madred in a future episode or episodes. Watching and listening to him and Patrick Stewart is what made this episode stand out. No technobabble. No special effects. Just two great actors in a room exchanging words. This remains one of my favorites from TNG and all of Trek.
Wonderful! Wonderful! I like you human. Most modern audiences become quite ill at the sight of two great actors in a room exchanging words.
As awesome as the chemistry was, Warner's character had his arc, which was really about Picard's character's arc.
@@351cleavland I like to think the writers could have found a way. If we were able to see Q and Lwaxana (shudder) multiple times, certainly there could have been another story for Picard and Madred.
Alas, won't happen now.
Madred should've really been in DS9 as well.
Could've fleshed out his character even more.
Outstanding episode. Among the best along with Unification and Best of Both Worlds.
So either Picard was following Starfleet orders (which Jellico refused to acknowledge) or he trespassed into a foreign power with the intent to do damage, which means the Cardassians could have paraded him around and told everyone about how the flagship's captain engaged in unsanctioned black ops. Way to go Starfleet!
Andy H I agree sending Picard into a dangerous situation; does Star Fleet have any black ops teams.
@@SamStuart07 None that Starfleet Intelligence would admit to having, apparently.
And then there's Section 31, the wing that no one knows exists (or else they know better than to blab about it). Those jerks might have spent their time more effectively by slinking around in this mess to see what the Cardassians had going.
@@CharlesUrban We defend the light by operating in the dark, we are Section 31.
@@Predator42ID This isn't Kingdom Hearts, and you ain't Riku.
Jellico was not in a position to acknowledge Picard's orders. He was under orders not to. It was not his call to make, those orders came down from an admiral, and if Jellico had tried Riker's tactic it probably would've gotten him court martialed and started a war. Riker was acting emotionally, which is understandable, but he was giving his tirade to the wrong person. Jellico was just following the orders he was given, and protecting the people under his command to the best of his ability. Disobeying an admiral's orders just to appease your first officer who is acting irrationally would not be the best idea.
Jellico: "They must have known that we'd change all his access codes... delete his porn..."
Data: "Sir, I did transfer all his porn to your quarters as you ord..."
Jellico: "Shut up Data!"
I love how Jelico preempts Riker talking back to him with the "Don't..."
Ronny Cox is fantastic at playing an authority figure people hate. He plays Jellico like he played Cohagen in Total Recall. "I don't give you enough information to think! Do what you're told, that's what you do.".
He's also great at playing middle class businessmen with a guitar hobby who can't handle the idea of breaking the law even in self-defence!
Though in Beverly Hills Cop, Ronny Cox's character was a hard ass, but he eventually warmed up to Eddie Murphy's character Axel Foley.
Richter goes hog wild
Senator Kinsey in Stargate as well. God I couldn't stand him and his holier than thou "America is greater than the Goa'uld" bullshit. Then wants to run away to the alpha site first chance he got.
He had a role in a couple seasons of St. Elsewhere too - completely shook up the dynamics of the show when it really needed. Ronny Cox is a treasure!
For someone portrayed at being great at poker, Riker has a terrible poker face.
When it comes to debating with his superior, he has to be blunt. I think that's what you were referring to.
Ronny Cox subtly showing the fact that Jellico doesn't want to lose Picard but needs to keep everything in his favor is some of the best acting on the show. You can even see it on Troi that she kind of knows how he feels but is not being tactful about it. GOD this episode is so good.
Troi is just trying to undermine the crew. You see what Chakotay does in criticizing Janeway for her actions in part 1 of "Scorpion" had reason and heart. Janeway really sometimes borderline let her pride get to her, and Chakotay called her out for it. But here Troi was just being spiteful and mean and downright unprofessional and insubordinate to Jellico. At least Riker call it as he saw it, he couldn't stand Jellico but he respected his posture and refusal to fold under pressure, or questioning, to quote "GoodFellas."
I had relieve Will Riker because he made a mistake. Now it's time to erase that mistake.
I'll relieve Will Riker and be home in time for corn flakes!
Come on Jellico, give them time!
The Enterprise crew was actually lucky Jellico was in command; Riker asked ''is he alive?'' when Lemec said the Cardassians had captured Picard; thereby giving away any plausible deniability; then he wanted to start a rescue mission that would have almost certainly gone disastrously wrong; that Admiral was right in putting Jellico in command of the Enterprise during the mission; Riker would have screwed up royally.
The Cardassians or the Kardashians have taken over the ship
Agreed
@@brianwhelan5382 I think I’ll take Cardassians over Kardashians.
How is that luck? Starfleet put him there to resolve a situation that they started. It sounds like a series of screw ups.
Jellico was also an outsider without such a personal connection to the crew or to Picard, beyond respect for a fellow officer. He was extremely well versed in how to deal with Cardassians, even in diplomacy, as strange as that sounds. His silly little power plays were effective, just as he expected them to be, and were precisely what they needed to take control over the negotiations. When they revealed the Picard was captured, Jellico was level headed enough to not risk starting a war or the lives of millions in a desperate attempt to rescue one man who might already be dead. Instead, he bided his time, took the proper steps to outmaneuver them, THEN once the Federation was in a dominant position, he was able to leverage his power to get Picard freed and returned to his ship.
Jellico: "Do your job."
Riker: "AAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!"
1:40 The beginning of Picard's most classic quote/meme:
THERE...ARE...FOUR....LIGHTS!!
stupid queistoon but why in the end did picard say he could see 5 lights. what does the light thing in the episode mean
@@randomrazr it's about getting someone to pretend, to lie not to you but to themselves. If you can make a man lie to himself, to doubt reality, you can make him do anything.
@@randomrazr I didn't think, they ever got him to break down and say five??
@@randomrazr The tourmentor wanted to break Picard. If you can get him to lie about a simple fact like how many lights there are, you will have broken his will. He eventually would be asked about military secrets. Excellent acting by two masters of the trade, David Warner and Patrick Stewart.
It's hard to believe that such torture exists today and likely inspired the methods depicted in this episode.
Thankfully Picard started with a strong will. (A credit to his achievement to becoming a Starship captain. Theybare not pushovers. )
It is likely if they hadn't been forced to release him, he may have broken sooner or later.
He himself admitted it.
@@bebo5558 But its possible he would have. He admitted it. Seems he was released just in time.
This guy's been watching 1984.
Elim Garak should have conducted this interrogation. Just saying. 😁
Garak was exiled from the Obsidian Order by this point in time, I do believe.
and I don't even think the Obsidian Order conducted this interrogation.
The operation here was not conducted by the Obsidian Order. From Andrew Robinson's book, "A Stitch In Time" he explains that the Central Command had their own intelligence apparatus, who were not NEARLY up to the same level of professionalism as the Order. It stands to reason that had the Order carried this out, they likely could have got the intelligence without any stupid tricks in luring a Starfleet officer to one of their planets. This operation by the Central Command was sloppy. They lured Picard in without even verifying if he knew anything about Minos Korva in the first place. When you dig down to it, the structure of the storyline is a bit of a mess. If they KNEW that the Enterprise was going to be the command ship, how did they find this out in the first place? Surely that information would be part of any wider strategic plans regarding the system in the first place? So if they somehow knew the Enterprise was supposed to be command ship, why would they need Picard to know the rest of the plans in the first place? Its all a bit odd. Or perhaps, myself being a writer.....I'm way over-analyzing it from my own writing perspective 😁
😁
I hate questions in a storyline ha!
@@dhinton1 You may right. Just saying it would have been enjoyable to watch Garak interrogate Picard.
@@bobpage6597 You're right I sure.
He would have been much more upbeat while torturing Picard, anyway.
Here we see a fundamental difference between Captain Picard and Captain Jellico.
As first officer aboard the U.S.S. Hood, Commander Riker refused to let Captain DeSoto beam down to a dangerous planet.
When Captain Picard was in the process of selecting a first officer for the Enterprise, he initially thought that Riker's file looked like all the others, an exemplary service record, glowing letters of recommendation that tell you nothing, etc. Picard was about to set Riker's file aside when he saw the notation about Riker refusing to let his previous commanding officer beam into a potentially hazardous situation.
It was then that Picard knew he'd found his first officer. Picard wanted a second-in-command who would stand up to him, who would tell him when he was wrong, and defy him when he felt it was necessary.
Captain Jellico, on the other hand, was the type of commanding officer who wanted his subordinates to carry out all of his orders without question.
During his time on the Enterprise, Jellico completely ignored his entire chain of command and refused to listen to any concerns from his officers about the orders he was giving. By contrast, Picard listened to what his officers had to say before making his decisions.
And here, Jellico relieved Riker of duty, for doing exactly what Picard chose to make Riker his first officer for doing.
I recall Admiral Pressman asking if he looks for insubordination when he looks for officers after hearing the story of how he chose Riker.
However I don't think it fully applies here because Jelico does in fact listen to his staff and doesn't ignore them. He just didn't like Riker and Riker didn't like him, its that simple.
@@Bitchslapper316
>> I recall Admiral Pressman asking if he looks for insubordination when he looks for officers after hearing the story of how he chose Riker.
I remember that.
Pressman argued that it was more important for officers to trust their captain's judgment. He said that in a crisis, there was no time for explanations, and orders needed to be followed or else lives could be lost.
That sounds like Jellico's view of command as well.
>> Jelico does in fact listen to his staff and doesn't ignore them
I don't know about that.
Jellico ordered the Enterprise to change to a four-shift rotation.
... Why he did that, I still don't know. I've never served in the military, but I've seen people who have, and they argued that when you're preparing for an impending crisis, you should be changing from a three-shift rotation to a two-shift rotation, so that everybody works 12 hours a day instead of 8. These people said that changing to a four-shift rotation and reducing working hours from 8 to 6 during an emergency makes no sense.
But that's not the point. My point is that the Enterprise's department heads said that changing to a four-shift rotation would cause significant personnel problems, but when Riker attempted to address this with Jellico, his response was, "You will tell the department heads that as of now, the Enterprise is on a four-shift rotation. I don't want to talk about it. Get it done."
Jellico seemed to express disbelief that Riker would even attempt to refute the wisdom of Jellico's orders instead of carrying out the orders immediately and without question.
In a later scene, Geordi expresses frustration because Jellico is giving the Engineering crew orders that they cannot possibly carry out with the time and resources they are being given, and Riker tells him that he's not alone. It's the same with every other department.
I do remember the scene in which Jellico is talking to Geordi about the plan to mine the Cardassian ships, and Jellico does listen when Geordi tells him that he should have Riker pilot the shuttlecraft to plant the mines.
On the whole, though, Jellico never struck me as the kind of commanding officer who cared to listen to anybody, especially if they're offering objections to his orders. He just wanted and expected his subordinates to obey him without question.
@@akshin1556 Jellico also spoke to every pilot on Enterprise BEFORE speaking to Riker about it ... so he didn't exactly listen to Geordi.
and in hindsight ... I can see WHY Jellico was adamant about a four-shift rotation, but transitioning to that from three on the fly is drastic with NO prep time. that essentially WAS what the department heads told Will.
Riker was a good character. But a shitty first officer.
His entire gimmick was that he would never let his captain beam down into a dangerous situation.
Yet he caved into Picard every time for the entire 7 years of TNG.
And the fish is out of the ready room. (The thing that I heard was that even Patrick Stewart hated the fish tank, felt it didn't "follow" with the ideals of Starfleet, keeping an animal in confinement)
It was a personal reason. He's an extreme animal rights supporter and is against people owning pets even if the animals are well cared for
Well, there a limits. Dogs are cool 😂
@@corberus3119 tho he himself has 2 pit bulls.
@@corberus3119 That's dumb. Picard in that new Star Trek has a pet dog.
watching Picard i dont think Patrick Stewart cares what Starfleet thinks
“I know nothing of Minas Tirith.” “What an Aragorn man you are.”
Easily, one of tng's best episodes.
"...get it done..." Jellico's style of leadership would work well, but would ONLY work on a newly engaged crew. A crew that has worked and lived together as closely as aboard Enterprise-D could not hope to run as efficiently as Jellico wanted.
Jellico would have enjoyed Kirk's era more, when the Federation were actually at war/cold war with the Klingons and Romulans
@@normanred9212 he'd love the coming Dominion War
Actually, wouldn't the opposite be true? An experienced crew would be better suited to run the Enterprise in the way he wants.
@@torriddJellicoe's system didn't make sense to anyone but Jellicoe.
Commander Riker always does that walk out the door like he is swinging his hands even when he is furious.
I think that Riker from Seasons 1 and 2 would have worked splendidly with Jellico. Riker relaxed a lot over the years, becoming somewhat big-headed and entitled with age. Picard also mellowed into an easy-going captain with a lot of respect for Riker, especially since the Borg incident. In a way, Riker and Picard kind of run the ship between them. Maybe Riker saw himself as co-captain? That's what he became in those later seasons and Picard seemed fine with that.
Jellico is very similar to Picard from Season 1. When he arrived, it's as though Riker is reduced in rank overnight - and his ego is bruised. He sulks, disobeys orders, fights back and sympathises with outraged crew members, in a way stirring up hatred for Jellico, even going to Picard for help. This isn't the behaviour of a military man. Maybe Picard is to blame for stoking Riker's ego and allowing an inappropriate closeness to form between them? They have a father/son style relationship in those later seasons. When Picard is presumed dead in Gambit, Riker is devestated.
It's worth noting that Picard doesn't think highly of Riker in Yesterday's Enterprise. It's also worth noting that duplicate Thomas Riker joined the Maquis and stole a Federation starship. It seems to me that Picard is keeping post-Season 3 Riker on the straight and narrow. Shelby once described Riker as standing in a great man's shadow. Riker kept asking Troi why he keeps passing up promotions to remain under Picard - asking if he's too comfortable there? Maybe he knows that he's lost his way?
It's a shame that rebellious Riker was never developed further. There's a bad officer in Riker that would have been very entertaining.
They *should* have kept Thomas Riker and let Will move on to reach his true potential. They basically ended up ruining *both* characters with that decision
Excellent point. I agree the earlier Rikers would have been fine but Riker grew close to Picad and therefore emotional.
PICARD IN 2020
WOULD SAY :
" THERE ARE 6 STAR TREK SHOWS :
ENTERPRISE
TOS
TAS
TNG
DS9
VOYAGER "
NuTrek/FakeTrek, is everything After "Enterprise!" Period!
@@RyanPerfect PERIOD
You forgot about Discovery, Picard and Lower Decks.
Indeed, to hell with Nu Trek.
Oh come dudes... After the unwatchable woke car crash
of Disco and the pretty abysmal S1 and S2 of Picard... I have to be honest and admit that S3 Picard was actually brilliant. Matalas walked the tightrope between the classics and the new "agenda" pretty well... Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion
...
The list is right... Other than I would add S3 Picard to it...
Don't hate me!
Love Riker fighting for Picard, Riker KNOWS VERY WELL that Picard would fight for him aswell, true friendship 😇
Except Riker's just letting his personal feelings for the captain cloud his judgment and lose sight of the big picture. In the reverse Picard would've handled things better.
@@InfernosReaperRiker had Troi's confidance that Jellicoe was both insecure and a loose cannon.
@@RideAcrossTheRiverSo, given *her* track record, then wouldn't that mean he's the exact opposite?
@@InfernosReaperWhat "track record"? Troi reported her findings that Jellicoe was both insecure and a loose cannon. There's no means for mistake or misperception. Starfleet put her in her role because she is exactly correct in it. And Jellicoe demonstrated himself a frightened, loose cannon.
@@RideAcrossTheRiverYou talk as if you've never actually watched the show.
Troi is somehow worse at her job than Worf is at his.
Think about this rationally for a second. If she was right, *how* did that man become a *captain* and why would they put *him* in charge of the flagship?
I was waiting for any moment during that tense exchange for Jellico to break out the banjo and start playing it.
Oh so that’s how Data got the red shirt..
It’s not the only time. IIRC he takes command of another ship, as part of a fleet deploying a sensor net to catch cloaked Romulans. Another time is where he is part of an elaborate simulation where Riker is being interrogated.
@@hobanagerik He continued wearing Operations gold in Redemption, but in Parallels he sported red (and blue eyes!)
Funny to see data wearing red. Like picard wearing BLUE.
He did whatever Jellico said without question which was the kind of First Officer he wanted. Picard chose Riker because Riker would challenge his judgment.
Look at the Star Trek we had and now what we've got. It hurts.
Here we go with Jellico defenders. Again.
He's awesome.
He has his faults but he did alright
He's absolutely right here. Picard went on a covert mission and he must have expected disavowal if caught. Neither can a mere Captain make the call to admit an official secret like that when an entire sector is on the line.
@@jdotoz Captains have more pull than what you think.
@@jetuberBut not great.
@3:43 the moment a superior has to override a priority of a subordinate just to get his way....that is when leadership ends.
Like a parent saying to a 21-year-old "you're grounded." Haha, Dad, okay ...
There should have been a two week episode about Captain Jellico this was one of my favorite episode next to (best of both worlds)
Omega Prime What do you mean? It was a two parter.
Chain of Command Part 1 & 2
If Jellico had stayed on the Enterprise, a lot of characters would have been better off.
Picard gets time to recuperate from his experience with Madred.
Riker gets tired of dealing with Jellico and takes his own ship.
Data gets the first officer job and rocks it like he did in CoC.
Worf gets to work with a WARRIOR captain.
Will, good friend, bad commander.
As much as I hate Jellico, this is the one argument where I side with him. Not the part where he removed Riker but the part where he doesn’t acknowledge that Picard is under Starfleet orders.
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t this normal? Isn’t it like in Mission Impossible where that tape says that if they’re caught, they would be disavowed.
If Starfleet confirms that Picard was under orders, wouldn’t that be considered an act of war?
Or maybe I didn’t understand something.
Having said that, relieving someone purely because they questioned their orders was way over the top.
Jellicoe still has still the option to acknowledge Picard's status as a Federation citizen, demand that Federation citizens are not maltreated, that they receive consular assistance without acknowledging specifically why he's there. It helps that this planet Picard was caught on was supposed to be uninhabited and the Cardassians have their own dirty laundry they might want to be coy about.
I do appreciate Jellicoe's superb understanding of ship equipment and design. His flaw is that he doesn't understand people or that people run the ships.
@@RideAcrossTheRiver Exactly!!!
@@September2004How did Nechayev get Admiral, let alone in charge of secret ops?
@@RideAcrossTheRiver You think she was maybe promoted too early?
Love Data in the red shirt.
When you look at it, Riker was literally the one Jellico had a beef with although he did berate Geordi for a short time. Jellico was respectful to Deanna and even Worf. As for Data, Jellico knew a machine wouldn't argue back and would accept anything thrown at him.
Worf thrives under that type of command.
@@BrotherDerrick3X exactly. Loves authority
Geordi simply became complacent and got his ass lined up to take his duties seriously.
@@BrotherDerrick3X Worf was very similar to Jellico when he was in command of the Defiant.
And Beverly was just worried about casualties and blamed him. In the end, he was right.
Data looks good in that red uniform!!
Riker was actually recommending exchanging a star system for one man's life. His sentimentality got in the way of his judgement.
Captain Jellicoe really shook up things on the Enterprise. I enjoyed the different kind of character vs the normally calm and composed Picard.
Except shaking everything up was not what was needed. The improvements and mods to ship functions, great, but it's irrational to implement huge changes while reducing number of technical personnel to far less than was needed for the task. When there's a train crash, you don't send your ER personnel to guard duty.
Patrick Stewart has one toned hip in that behind shot dayum son
Love seeing Troi in blue and Data in red.
as often as I tend to agree with Riker ..... Jellico was right, and Starfleet threw Picard out under the bus (which Jellico bailed BOTH Picard and Starfleet out of, eventually ... with Riker's help). ignoring the fact that Picard never should have been on that secret op to begin with .... Starfleet would NOT under any circumstances acknowledge that Picard, Crusher, and Worf were sanctioned to infiltrate Cardassian space ... nor should Starfleet do so.
Jellico has a totally different command style from Picard. Love him or hate him, if the mission is to fuck Cardassians in the ass, Jellico is the right captain.
@@RCaIabraro Yep. Jellico was definitely more Sisko like.
"My continuing mission: To punch the Cardassian Union's face...in the FACE."
@@jacksonheathen2092 Sisko has WAY better people skills than Jellico.
@@dhinton1 For the most part. But Sisko could also get angry and start barking out orders sometimes.
I like Jellico. He wasn't wrong, just different.
Captain Bogumil really got angry since he left Beverly Hills.
I love this 1984 reference
1984 reference?
@@2bituser569 There's a scene in 1984 where one of the characters is in a similar situation and told to say that they could see a different number of lights to what there were. More of a rip-off that a reference IMO.
4:21 Does anyone know or wonder what led Data to this shirt change? Knowing Capt. Jellico, it's certainly within his style to order Data to change divisions but I'm unsure if he can give such an order. If he couldn't give that order, what would behoove Data to switch divisions?
I think he was acting first officer when Riker after Riker was dismissed
Jellico had a certain style aboard his ship and crew and my likely ordered Data to wear a red uniform. Later, in "Gambit", Data was acting captain with Worf as first officer while both retained their gold uniforms. It just seems to depend on who was in charge.
He's the captain of the vessel and can most certainly reassign positions under his command at an instant. This isn't a union shop.
I find it extremely difficult for me to watch this episode now. The reason is that I have a really special hatred to Senator Kinsey. The actor does a good job as Edward Jellico (and sadly I see a lot of traits for the SG1 character), but because he did an excellent job to make you hate Kinsey, I just can't swap out my feelings.
Believe me, I know how you feel about Kinsey. After seeing his debut episode, I blew up after the episode was over and ranted angrily about what a stupid jerk he was. I wanted to punch him in the face.
As for Jellico, he's actually a good man whose blunt and has high standards for those under his command. He'd likely hate Senator Kinsey and would want to punch him in the face.
Agreed
It's hard not to see any of his characters this way. I think the only one I can say I don't is when he plays Detective Andrew Bogomil.
And Dick Jones owns OCP cops.
3:42 - Riker should've said: "No. I'm questioning its existence".
Hell of a zinger right there
you probably thought of game of thrones when you wrote that. ;)
@@Andrei-oj1jz What part of Game of Thrones is that from? Been a while since I watched that show lol.
Data looks good in red
He does indeed. In fact Worf looked really good in red on DS9 too.
I wish data wore red more often.
@@jacksonheathen2092 Worf did have a few episodes in the beginning where he wore red as well.
Everything that Riker did in this scene was influenced by lack of judgement. Captain Jellico was right to make the call he did, but he also needed a different perspective than the one Riker could offer at the time. He didn't want to acknowledge war between the Federation and the Cardassians, very good diplomatically strategy might I say... But he needed more time so that he could work out how he was going to get Picard back while also keeping him protected should hell break out.
AMAZING acting in this episode by all. Such a fantastic show.
Unheard of to have an actor naked, and being tortured on cable television in the early 90's.
It was Patrick's stupid idea.
This was not on cable. It was syndicated on local TV stations nationwide.
I'm really curious if David Warner and Patrick Stewart were ever in any theater plays or other movies / shows before Star Trek. They're both around the same age and both amazing actors. Both of these guys are really at the top of their acting game in this episode (probably the second best episode right underneath The Inner Light).
....although he’s not as famous as some others, this Lemec is a pretty good Cardassian
I liked him too. Most Cardassian Gul's were rather arrogant.
That smarmy grin ...
Garak would have viewed him as a novice when it comes to interrogations. A few times picard got to him making him lose his cool. Garak would have gotten that intel out of picard.
@@jacksonheathen2092 He was arrogant too! He belittles Jellico and the Enterprise crew, acts like he's better. He just doesn't show it as much for a reason that makes him much worse than Madred or Dakot - he's a traitor.
I've known slimy people with that same personality. It was rather realistic.
Looks at my maternal lineage. Won't say anymore.
And Cardassians were based on the Spaniards - -ez-surnamed people with Frank Lopez English accented, Allied oppressors.
My dad's family are white Spaniard Frank Lopez English accented -ez-surnamed Spaniards. My mom's family are Spaniard but they're Hispanic but pseudo-Hispanic. They're traitors just like Lemec.
@@Whatatwist2009 At least with Dakot or Madred they were honest with Picard.
The joy of saying you broke a StarFleet Captain but in the end founded a deep admiration instead...yours very truly Alfonso Cantu USMC
Whether you agree with Riker here or not, he deserves a mountain of credit. He was the one person on the ship willing to push back against Jellico.
Disagree. Removing Riker cleared the way for Jellico to come up with the plan to trap the Cardassians. He knew if he got those mines on their ships, he'd get Picard back anyway. Riker let his passions get in the way of his duty to the Federation. Even Spock wouldn't agree to the Cardassian's demands.
@@mezanine10 Where did Riker show any of what you imagine? Jellicoe had no plan at all.
Well, I can't think of a better choice for an intelligence mission than the captain most likely to know all the area defense plans. Too bad Starfleet doesn't have, say, an intelligence branch that could handle things like this. If they did, they could call it... oh idk, maybe "Section 31."
what about the other 30 and how do we know there are not higher sections?
I wonder what the Cardassian would have come up with, had Picard proposed to count the lights with both simultaneously touching each light.
Senator Kinsey always manages to be most dislikeable.
I was hoping to find a comment like that in here. Thank you.
Never trust a snakehead.
I didn't even realize that was him till you pointed it out........well that's something
Captain Jellico is a completely different character from Senator Kinsey. Also, Jellico was put in a bind here. If he admitted to Picard's actions being sanctioned by Starfleet, it'd weaken their position at the negotiating table and make the Federation look bad which could've led to the Federation losing the strategically important system in dispute to the Cardassians.
Jellico was thinking of the greater good here as painful as it was for him to let the Cardassians torture Picard. Riker however didn't see it that way as his own judgement was blinded by his friendship with Picard and desire to see him protected but Jellico figured this out which is why he relieved Riker of duty since Riker's judgement was impaired.
I get the anger of the fans though towards Jellico, I felt the same anger towards him when I first saw this episode.
@@girlgarde Well, I definitely agree with you. And yet the Goa'ulds were vanquished and even the Ancients took note of you and me as the 5th race 👍
Back in the day how I would record TNG on my VHS and watch it on my Sony Trinitron in my room. Then on weekends hook up my other VCR to edit the tapes commercial free and put those tapes in the collection to watch commercial free. A while back I found one of the tapes I did not edit the commercials and watched that one. The things we did before TH-cam and the internet for entertainment.
So, at what point did someone ignore the thought that it's kind of stupid to send senior officers on basic intelligence missions? Especially officers with highly sensitive knowledge? No? No one?
All were high profile positions on the flagship. Surely, news of Picard as Locutus was common knowledge to make his face recognized by foreign militaries.
Yea, the premise is ridiculous. A Captain's skill and value is their ability to command a large group of individuals, not a two man team. This robbed a junior officer's ability to earn points to rise in stature for recognition. I'd be furious if I was a junior security officer who trains on a daily basis for tactical assignments and heard I've been bypassed over this.
Hey it's JeanLuc Picard!
No I"m not. I'm Joe.... Lieutenant.... Joe...... Tricorder. Yes, Lt Joe Tricorder. From.... the USS.... umm...ennnnnnntrapment. These are my companions Beberly Crasher and some Klingon we met. I think his name is Woof or something. You can kill him, whatever. Don't even know him.
Nechayev came up with that. A kid admiral, zero experience, promoted far too fast, punching above her weight.
Star Trek TNG sincerely evolved my thinking process
One of the top 5 episodes of TNG!
One of the best and worst episodes of Trek ever. It's good because the scenes between Madred and Picard are unforgettable; not so good because the circumstances required to get Picard in that interrogation room are so ridiculous and contrived. Why didn't Starfleet get a specialised team to investigate the metagenic weapon rumors instead of bridge officers from an important flagship?
I can just imagine the kind of office or training camp they would stick Captain Jellico the rest of the time, any other crew underneath him would mutiny within a month. You don't leave that guy in charge of anything.
Wrong. Jellico is good
Wrong. He completed the mission perfectly.
@@stevencoardveniceno he is not he is just short of a frag officer
@@paulrasmussen8953 you're insubordinate just like Riker. It's wartime. A crisis. No time for bonding.
Get it done
@@stevencoardvenice no war time crisis is the worse time to do fundamental changes. Jellico is a toxic commander who.in eariler times would get fragged. Likely with the pin pulled. He will get the bare minimum oit of his crew nothing more. While both Picard and Kirk got that extra mile out of them. Jellico is just short of capt Sobel from band of brothers
Data sure didn't waste time putting the new uni on. All that was missing was the "haters gonna hate" strut.
He knew that Jellico liked his people to dress appropriately. Once made aware he was acting first officer, he would have ensured that he had the right uniform on.
Riker was completely wrong here. He questioned the Captain in front of the crew, even if it was just Troi. The real question I always had was how Riker ducked a court martial for getting the Enterprise captured easily by the Ferengi just two episodes before this one. It must have been that influence from Admiral Pressman before he burned that bridge.
I always wondered about the lights the cardassian interrogator had above his desk.
I gather Picard wasn't the first subject to have to face the Four Lights Challenge.
Likewise the restraint system he also had in his office.
He's obviously the man they bring their toughest, high value subjects to when they want someone broken.
Kinda like Guantanamo bay.
"How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?"
Jellico: "Maybe it's time you found other responsibilities. You're relieved of command."
Me: "I declare you mentally unfit for command and therefore remove you from command of the Enterprise!"
Only a Doctor could do that. The only way Riker would have doing that would have been Jellico giving an illegal order.
@@NordRheinWestfale Maybe Riker couldn't, but Counselor Troi could. She was standing right there.
@@agm8554 Troi doesn't have such authority. Riker could relieve him of command under very specific circumstances regarding regulations, procedures and federation laws. Crusher as chief medical officer could relieve him based on physical or mental capacity. Troi was more of a psychologist and protocol officer.
@@seanwebb605 As ship's counselor, she has the authority to relieve of duty anyone she determines to be mentally or psychologically incapable of performing said duty. In addition, Riker could have removed Jellico here as Jellico failed to perform his duty to retrieve Picard by any means necessary.
@@agm8554Jellicoe would have both in the brig.
Riker was emotionally involved and insubordinate.
That's what I eventually realized too. Jellico was thinking of the greater good, the big picture so to speak and trying to protect the Federation's best interests. He respected Picard but wasn't friends with him which is why he was able to keep his cool plus he had the personality type to keep his cool.
Riker however WAS friends with Picard and too emotionally involved to think rationally which led him to be insubordinate towards Jellico. It doesn't make Riker crappy or anything, he's just the personable type who sometimes isn't able to separate his personal feelings from his duty. Jellico saw this and realized that Riker's continued presence would be detrimental to the mission so he had no option but to relieve him of duty.
@@girlgarde Riker was willing to kill Picard in "The Best of Both Worlds".
Yes, he was pissed at Jellicoe's insecurity and scatterbrain.
I didn't know Chief Bogamil served in Star Fleet.
Well, this was long after he got shot by long-legged blondie.
Captain
@@LordTalax He was promoted at the end of Beverly Hills Cop 2.
Curious how the Kardassians. (ooopss!) had theta band metagenic devices. I wonder if they were in cooperation with Shinzo & the Remans? Also, why is Data wearing a red uniform, yet he wore a gold uniform when in command of the Enterprise & the Sutherland? It’s also a good thing he wasn’t in TOS wearing a red uniform, otherwise he would have been toast.
He's an android. He would've survived.
It was Jellico's command so when he relieved Riker of duty it was intended to be permanent. Hence, Data put on the red uniform to being in conformity with his new role.
Oof, this is the Trek I love. Intelligent
I love later on we see Riker just chilling in his quarters.
I always double take whenever I see Data in that red suit.
Where is O'Neill when you need him? "Light meat or dark meat?"
You're out, Riker. Dress the robot up in his uniform and get his goofy ass over to my ready room pronto.
What does Madred say at 0:45? "A remarkable infection" or "invention"?
How many fingers are there Winston?
"Oh shit my head was blocking the fifth light this whole time. Sorry, Picard, my bad."
Another great Star Trek appearance by David Warner ! Dick Jones being a right bastard like he was to Robocop too. I love it how Picard only needed to tell his captor that there were five lights and he wasn’t prepared to do that when there were clearly only four🤨. I’m sure Captain Kirk would have done the same...... or would he? 🤔
But Picard was on the verge of breaking when they finally released him. I couldn't see Kirk ever doing that. Just saying.
Kirk would have reprogrammed the room to have five lights, then agree that there were five lights.
If Picard had said there were five lights, he’d have shown a willingness to say whatever the Cardassian Union wanted. The Cardassians were programming him to be their parrot, Willing to read out whatever they put in front of him. The only way he could protect the Federation from that kind of morale loss was to tell the truth to his captur, who himself admitted, he believed Picard... I.e. “It doesn’t matter what your truth is... you will accept our new truth.”
Jackson Heathen Everyone breaks eventually. That is kind of the whole point.
Kirk wouldn't have cared when the Cardassians stripped him naked.
Riker's duty is to suggest alternative courses of action to his captain, but he also has a duty to not undermine his captain's authority, say by losing his cool in the presence of other officers. The situation is similar to the one between Data and Worf, when Data became captain and Worf his first officer, and they properly resolved it. They should have had this discussion in private.
That is true. Contrast it with Data in "Time's Arrow". When Picard leaves him off the away team (on account of his severed head turning up on Earth), Data disagrees with his actions... but he discusses it with him in private.
That’s what pissed Jellico off the most. Had Riker asked Troi to leave the room Jellico might have berated him, but not relieved of duty him
@@zt1053 Definitely, he was yelling in his face.
TNG does DS9.
What really pissed Jellico off was Riker questioned his orders in front of Troi. Had Riker expressed the disagreement in private at worse he probably would’ve just gotten a reprimand.
Mincing Cardassian. Always makes me laugh 😂 😂😂
“I’ll be on Holodeck Three, sir.”
"I don't understand, how you coud be so mistaken". Dude, you are in the way of the fifth light.
Master Chief: Jean-Luc Picard has to be saved, if you won't do that, I will.
The transition to Gellico to Picard was easy compared to switching Pircard for Kirk. At least some characters remember how it used to be... that aren't Bones. Imagine if they killed off Picard. TNG barely remembers Roddenberry's vision of the future, Sure they did wonders for Synthetic rights but they'll trade it for action in a heartbeat.
Roddenberry's vision of the future was cash.
@@BrotherDerrick3X HERESY!!!!
Mr. Roddenberry was a former Army pilot and had experience in wartime. He was NOT Liberal as the current crop is today in H Wood.
teenagerinsac
Idk he didn’t want “guns” like the rifle seen in the second trek pilot. He preferred trek like we saw in tmp and tng s1-2 which fans generally hated or weren’t enthusiastic about.
@@teenagerinsac sorry to burst your bubble, but not only was he progressive but military service is not contraindicative of progressive ideology, especially at that time.
“By entering a command in this padd I can produce pain in any part of your body.”
*WEEHEEHEEHEE DEE HEEHEEHEEHEE WEEOH AWEEM AWAY*
I just realized....one of the bright lights had a very small blue light on top of the main light.....in a way Picard was wrong
Riker backing up Picard is so awesome! I remember looking for this clip years ago
“There are 4 lights”
“No, there are 5”
“I wasn’t aware that cardassians were so stupid that they can’t count to 5.”
I actually like Jellicoe rather a lot. Starfleet sent him because he has the stomach to deal with the Cardassians and if that means Riker needs to shut up and follow orders or that Troi should wear a uniform like everyone else then so be it.
You can see that jellico did not want to do what he did with riker just as the commercial breaks. There is nothing pleased in his body language. In fact you can tell that he is seeing how things are going wrong and he is worried. He knows that this could be the Domino that leads to mutiny on the ship and, just as importantly, lead to the utter destruction of the negotiations and get Picard killed
Picard is in good shape
The best management, even in war time, is someone who shows few flaws and gets along with his or her team. That's the message that's lost here with so many people. The writers made this episode to show how NOT to be a captain, because while the job gets done at the end of the day, being an arrogant prick will get you nowhere without a loyal crew. You will notice later in the episode that this is exactly what happens.
On the contrary it also shows you how complacency can negatively effect your crew. Even when knowing that this could be the verge of a new war everyone is complaining which is fine it is hard work but it wouldn't compare with what could be coming and jellico expresses he wishes he had the time to earn everyone's trust but unlike them and especially Riker he understood what was at line.
@@nantohoohken
>> everyone is complaining which is fine it is hard work
Geordi said that he didn't mind hard work. The issue he was having with Jellico's orders was that Jellico wasn't giving him the time he needed to get the work done.
Data said that realigning the warp coil in two days' time was possible, but only if they utilized the entire Engineering department, and then only if everybody in Engineering worked around the clock for the full two days. But despite knowing this, Jellico transferred a full third of the Engineering crew to Security, and still expected the warp coil to be realigned.
Personally, I have never believed that under Picard's command, the Enterprise crew was soft, relaxed, pampered, or any of the other things that people in the Comments have called them.
I believe that the Enterprise crew worked really hard as a matter of normal routine, and that was how they managed to earn a place on the Federation's flagship in the first place. There were certainly several times during the course of the series, like the Borg invasion in "The Best of Both Worlds," when the crew must have pushed themselves to work really hard to prepare the ship for the crisis they were facing.
They just had an issue with being expected to complete work that required far more time and resources than they were being given.
The real problem was that when you only have 44 minutes in which to create a dramatic situation and resolve it, writers sometimes take the easy way out of having what should be an extremely skilled crew make stupid decisions in order to facilitate the plot.
Some commentors on these videos have brought up the Enterprise crew's pitiful performance against a group of Ferengi pirates using two old Birds of Prey in the episode "Rascals" as proof that they needed to be straightened out, or something like that.
I don't think it was really the writers' intent to make the Enterprise crew look incompetent in that episode, even if that was the result for many viewers. It was just that the plot required the Ferengi to take control of the Enterprise, and with only a very short amount of time that could be given to the battle sequence, the writers decided to take the easy way out (as they so often did), and had the Enterprise officers give a far weaker showing than they should have.