DDK and Sean Gares quit casting / Why casters leave esports - The Four Horsemen S2E4 (feat. Uber)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ค. 2024
- The Four Horsemen is the premier esports industry show that reacts to important news and critical conversations across all major titles. Esports veterans Duncan "Thorin" Shields, Richard Lewis, and Christopher "MonteCristo" Mykles use their decades of experience to shed light and debate on key esports topics as they emerge. Each episode they are joined by an expert guest to help further provide insider information on the topic at hand.
In this episode, special guest Mitch "Uber" Leslie, Overwatch League caster, joins the show to discuss the surprising casting resignation of veteran commentators Sean Gares and DDK, the state of VALORANT casting as a whole, why casters feel that no esport offers career advancement, what companies need to do to retain casters, and more.
This episode was filmed on March 24th, 2022.
Come join the Insight on Esports Discord for in-depth discussion across esports: / discord
Audio versions of the show can be found on podcast platforms here: the-four-horsemen.captivate.f...
0:00:00 - Context
0:30:02 - How does competition between TO's benefit casters?
0:49:47 - Mind games and manipulation by Riot Games
1:02:41 - Budgetary struggles and caster rates
1:29:25 - The reasons why casters retire
2:07:59 - Closing thoughts
2:27:41 - Where does TSM rank as a bad esports org?
2:29:35 - When will Richard be able to walk away from esports?
2:40:44 - What was the dumbest esports scandal?
2:44:54 - Techniques for performing at your best
#EsportsPodcast
#TheFourHorsemenPodcast
#LoLPodcast - เกม
I love how the episode starts with Richard talking about time loops and you can hear his voice loop in the background. As if he was projecting through time itself.
Uber the only guest thus far to hold his own as a horseman, and bring as much insight and entertainment as the others, just gells as a combo
100%
I was about to disagree with you then went back and made sure I had the guests correct for this show. I did not. You are absolutely correct xD
He was likely specially chosen for this episode since he is in high regard in the e-sports world for being a fierce advocate for caster's well being
Uber is by far the best candidate for a permanent Fourth Horseman, love his casting and genuinely one of the few people in eSports casting that has a backbone.
You’re not wrong
You're not wrong but I feel that the show benefits from a different 4th horseman every episode so that they can bring someone that specialises or is knowledgeable on the subject that can give a different perspective or answer questions from the others.
Or alternatively have him replace Thorin and you can keep the rotating guests. :)
@@JaziB just don't watch kid
@@JaziBIf you don't like Thorin then this show isn't for you.
At this point i just enjoy every piece of content from all these guys. Just because i know it wont be forever. I dont even wanna know what the scene would be without them...
Probably the same. If there's a demand for counter commentary they'll be someone to take the place.
@@ushift if you think it’ll be the same, then I think you missed the point of this whole video
@@zohairkhan5755 Opinion about casters: I think the quality will be worse in the short term. That's the point of the video. It's a gig and not a full-time job. The video is a critic of the business practices, but we could say the same for Uber or other gig economies. It shouldn't be this way, but I don't think anything will change. We'll have talented casters that will end up moving to other jobs, but just as those casters leave other casters will take their place and grow their talents, and the cycle repeats. Opinion about counter commentary: If you don't think there will be another Thoorin, Monte, Uber, or Richard Lewis then obviously your forgetting that others have taken their mantles already. IWD, LS, Caedrel, etc. I don't see this changing until content creators have a stake in the game itself. I think Web3 will be a huge change that could shift the market towards this goal, but that's like 5 to 10 years out.
I've never seen this Uber dude before, since I rarely watch more than two or three games besides CSGO. I'll be watching him next time he's on. He's as real as they get.
The Four Horsemen are slowly convincing me that I should stop watching esports
If you stopped watching/buying/reading anything based on the integrity of the provider of said service, you would have to stop doing anything in life.
sounds good
@@WoTWi this isn't really a case of separating art and artist. This is cartels of dickheads preventing growth of a space were supposed to care about
@@WoTWi Cringe take
Its just the scummy fking bastards at the top. Everyone else for the most part is fantastic.
Richard Lewis, Monte and Thorin vs Riot = My wet dream. Thanks for the content guys. Uber was a great guest.
@@darkyperv34 You think Riot got rid of them!? You haven't been paying attention mate.
@@darkyperv34 Yes lets just ignore the numerous things Riot have done to cause those scenarios. And these guys really don't delete these things, on the contrary they've all made videos on those specific cases you've mentioned, telling their side. But keep drinking that kool aid bro.
Also Monte being unwanted by Riot really does go to show how idiotic and spiteful Riot are. This guy was THE guy when it came to Korean LoL.
@@darkyperv34 If that's what you think then there's no more discussion to be had. But going out of your way to comment on people's videos you clearly hate; I can only surmise you're a pretty sad and lonely person.
You crack on mate with your crusade, I won't be replying.
@@darkyperv34 'their mistake' being protesting riot...smh
@darkyperv34 Who's the one deleting stuff now?
required reading for aspiring casters indeed. keep it real guys. uber great choice for guest
Uber is a proper horseman, fits in, holds his own and has a nice voice and accent to him.. Need him on the RLshow tbh..
I like the new and recent LCK casters…. But man did I love watching DOA and Monte back in the day. One of my favorite moments was when DOA had to cast alone during a long delay. Shit was hilarious and amazing. Oh and I remember one time when they panned to the crowd and a fan had a sign meant for Gorilla but spelled it Gorirra….holy shit.
Wtf, 2 shens?
Monte & Doa on OGN was my night time jam.
1:04:50 - To further add on the the "casters add value" conversation, I literally switched from watching league to watching overwatch, despite still playing league almost exclusively, solely because I loved Monte's and DoA's casting so much. Furthermore, I started getting into playing Overwatch and being a dedicated OWL fan, solely because of the initial draw of Monte and DoA, and while I realize I might be an outlier, I think yet another facet to why casters are so fucking important.
Hell i never liked OW and refused to play it, but I'd watch just to listen to them commentate.
1:18:18 I quite often get asked why musicians get paid so much. My missus and I make anywhere from 250-400 a night for under 2 hours work and that sounds like alot.
Once you factor in the time it took to drive to the gig (sometimes upwards of 3 hours) then set up the gear (45 mins) and then sit around until show time (1-2 hours) do the show (2 hours), pack the gear away (30 mins) and then drive home again. Its been an 8 hour day.
By the time we pay for petrol, commission to our agent and grabbing something to eat we're already down £100.
This is before factoring in the cost of equipment and hundreds of hours of rehearsal.
It's the same for pretty much all stage and on-camera talent. The bit you see, the bit we're actually getting paid for, is only a tiny part of the time and money we have to put in to make it happen.
Uber was easily the best 4th Horseman yet
Thanks for uploading this to youtube! much love
It will be a very sad day when Rich retires
great back to back episodes, two of the best imo
uber is definitely a fantastic guest.
My favorite quote was from Richard, "I used to adopt a jaded persona, now I'm jaded."
Thanks m8s ~
What a great addition to the four horsemen Uber was. Absolutely belongs and gives great info that I otherwise would not have known or heard otherwise. Great show bring him back!
The problem with Riot casters after 10 years in LCS and not changing anything could be attributed to people like Phreak who have been there in all these 10 years and are allies to the owners and not the talent, he defends anything and everything they do because he feels that he is part of the inner circle.
It's harder to make things better when you have somone on your side working against you in every turn
Im pretty sure he is part of the inner circle. Doesnt he have stake in the company from early on?
Richard with the "ah, shit here we go again" look in his face LMFAO
Uber is a fucking banger guest. He’s spitting so much fire
It really is disturbing, how little some devs seem to care about being petty, min maxing and control more than quality of cast. I think it was the Sadokist episode of the RLS where Sado talks about how the car/racing companies treated him vs esports companies that really put it into perspective. Esports just seems so juvenile in comparison to any other professional product lmao.
Which was ok when it was just dudes playing in basements, its weird with billion dollar companies.
Anyone know what caster relationship in owl they were referring to?
probably reinforce and his girlfriend
I don't know anything about Valorant or CS but I like to listen to Thorin, Monte and Richard talk especially if they're shitting on Riot lmao
Great content. Thanks!
Fighting game casting is the same as cs where besides maybe street fighter it is who the TO wants and who’s best at their job while each caster has their own rates/price
You can drink Tap water in Cluj. This is not important, just bugged me after drinking it for 30 years......
When Thooorin speaks about how he sees his energy bar for activities, I can't help but think that I also have a meter for lazyness slowly rising in myself where I want to just do fuck all for a day to drain it and start working properly for a few days again.
The Caster Trap. Underrated comedy from Thorin.
the most important format in esport!
The community behind esports is everything. PS: Richard we love you
casters and commentators help selling your television/streaming product. So would make sense to pay them well to keep the talent.
The bugs life and antz references lol wonder who was dating in the owl broadcast team.
I have a feeling that this has been brought up, but can someone educate me on why esports casters can't unionize? The devs have too much control as it is. This is one of the biggest difference in traditional sports. Nobody actually own the sport of basketball or football. And the elitist mindset of people like Marc Merill is a cancer to the industry. Thorin brought it up in this episode, but I can't forget what marc Merill tweeted to IWD about making a career out of a game that he made. If that's the case then Dr. Naismith must be rolling in his grave. Damn, this industry is nasty and unprofessional
Is this basically what happened to Captain Flowers?
Why what happened to him?
Nah From how I’ve seen him talk I just think he was burnt out of doing casts remote without the crowd
2:02:28 banger
I can't full understand what Thorin says?
We're going from A Bug's Life to ANTZ
Unionisation seems to be a solution/option to me? I know that's easier said than done esp with how organisations seem to be hostile to a literal duo trying to bargain together
Unlikely. Some casters are nice to your face then undercut/rumourtrage you like mad and play it on social media that they'd never do such a thing. There has been a few unions where casters will share information currently.
I am still surprised that they say overwatch hired when talking about caster managers. I doubt they wanted it. They got forced by the investors should be the truth
DDK & Zoot . . . Good Times.
I love how uber is talking all that crap while working for blizzard lmaoo
Fucking excellent episode
ty
Is this what is going on with the LCS right now? LCS casters having to train letigress to replace one of them? XD
2:02:05.3 Thooorin joke
12:15
Uber is the goat man
esports sucks now. too corporate now. also most management at these orgs don't even game, just some mba grads from some fancy business school running esports into the ground.
Riot casters having roommates is embarrassing tbh
Goldenboy feels like the worst corpo caster
Artosis and Tasteless were the best , there IS Nobody in the casting world that comes anywhere near the level even today. Not Thorin not Monte nobody , not even remotely in the same league... so they took a lot of money
viva Richado Luis
Nice
as much as i don't give a fuck about tsm, the org was the front runner of the industry for years so calling them bad org for recent events demerits their whole run
Lol that’s what you got out of this video?
Except those recent events have been emblematic of said whole run
They were one of the best teams in the world when the game was still underdeveloped. They got in on the ground floor and built a dynasty on Bjerg.
Having said that, Regi's misconduct is not recent. He's been at it since Xpecial and Dyrus were in the team and recent allegations suggest he hasn't changed. The org has a track record of burning through promising upcoming players and proven imports alike, as well as coaches being undermined. The long-running meme was TSM = Talent Suppression Machine
They aren't the worst org, but they deserve the criticism they are getting.
TSM and Regi have been bad actors for years, they were just "too big to fail" before.
Calling them a bad org doesn't "demerit" the players who succeeded in spite of the org unless you some how think "the org" won those trophies and not bjerg and the people in the game.
"Calling them a bad org for recent events" They have literally been involved in shady shit since the org's inception.
This is the absolute best example of why people who don't know jack shit about an issue 1:19:47 (politics) shouldn't make a joke like they are right.
Captilialism by definition is that you're entitled to the money you make. You can increase that income based on how much work you actually do.
Capitalism spawned the greatest known power in all of human history (america) and gave birth to freedom in the west.
People seem to forget before Capitalism there was just kings and dictators with ultimate power and the common citizen was no better than the ground he walked on.
Because Capitalism, we now have the biggest boost in technology and knowledge in history. Because the system encourages everyone to contribute.
They seem to be confusing Capitalism with monopoly.
Pretty simplistic view. If capitalism was as good as you said there would never have been a need for unions.
@@pkftw4166 it's not a perfect system. But it is a system that works.
Supply and demand.
Casting isn't exactly a hard job, and everyone wants to do it. So therefor supply is high, demand is low. Therefor they get paid low (extremely high in my opinion if it's over six figures)
If they want to get paid more. They should educate themselves or open other avenues of income. (Like Jett and mark does with podcasts)
I'm welder, in the field of welding supply is low, and the demand is very high. So I can ask for a doctor level income, and get it.
Only took me 9weeks of trade school and 10k for schooling. Built up my knowledge and experience through work. Started out 80k fresh out of school, and now I probably make more than these guys.
I barely know how to spell on a third grade level.
It isn't hard, through Capitalism you can still make millions. You just can't be lazy and complain
What world you are living in dude
Crazy how a bunch of trump supporters talk about unionization and increasing their pay and the flaws of capitalism the irony is to sweet.