G2 Carlos parties with Andrew Tate / Esports ethics - The Four Horsemen S2E5 (feat. Lauren Flanagan)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ค. 2024
- Lauren Flanagan, agent from OneTeam Partners, joins the show to discuss Carlos from G2's party with Andrew Tate, the esports industry's reaction to the tweets, the ramifications of the posts on the G2 org, the major ethical issues that continue to plague the industry, the lack of ethical money in the space, and more.
The Four Horsemen is the premier esports industry show that reacts to important news and critical conversations across all major titles. Esports veterans Duncan "Thorin" Shields, Richard Lewis, and Christopher "MonteCristo" Mykles use their decades of experience to shed light and debate on key esports topics as they emerge. Each episode they are joined by an expert guest to help further provide insider information on the topic at hand.
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This episode was filmed on September 20th, 2022.
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0:00:00 - Context
0:16:11 - Carlos's post and the community reaction
0:26:46 - Impact on G2
0:49:25 - Misogyny at Riot and the esports industry
1:12:36 - Misogyny and other ethical issues abroad
1:42:47 - Where do we go from here? - เกม
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God, it’s so refreshing to see Richard talking with thorin and monte again. You’ve been missed my friend
How is that refreshing? A fucking soyboy leftie cuck who defends big tech for banning a person who voiced his opinions. Are you a fucking commie? I really hope you have the balls to say that out on the streets, you twat!
"I think we might even see a parting between the two [carlos and G2]" - Richard Lewis, 3 days before Carlos resigns as CEO of G2.
And he was still correct.
I'm surprised you're doing an episode on this topic. Pleasantly surprised I might add
Glad that Richard is still going to be involved in this show!
The man argues like a 12 year old screaming in all chat, this show is going down the drain if he's involved
did they have some falling out?
@@TheSergio1021 Remember when you misquoted me twice in the comments section then deleted your comments because you're a cretin? Good times.
@@humanoid8344 he's retiring and phasing eSports out of his life
If Riot wanted consumers to monetize their esports they would have allowed you to buy merch within the client, they would have made caster voice packs to support fhe casters, they could have made esports connected skins, icons, and tokens, so that the teams, players, and orgs could have fan revune coming in and supporting them. You have to give people interesting things to purchase while not making it difficult to obtain not everyone can go to actual live events.
Their marketing arm
Honestly expected them to play defense for Carlos more props Monte and Richard for staying consistent even if the person is someone you are friends with
reddit hands posted this.
Thorin has gone in hard on Forgiven and other people he really likes before. It doesn't stop him lmao
Friends tell shit into your face dont play defense when u fucked up
Amen to that brother, richard and monte are real ones out there, always sayin the truth, thorin tho is kinda a carlos shill honestly.
@@jay6065 I think thorin just wants saudi's to carry responsibility and not be absolved just because they have more money they can spend.
Thorin's Mike Tyson photo parallel was so good lol, that really helped contextualize it to me.
Sort of, though obviously it is a bit of a hyperbole, Mike Tyson was on of the greatest in his sport and Andrew Tate is just some pos grifter off the internet
@@allangibson7028 so being the best makes it ok?
@@allangibson7028 The point is just that they're both famous.
@@allangibson7028 andrew tate is a multi world champion... you're just moving goal posts now
@@TheSergio1021 multi-world? Hes been to another world and won a championship there too?
One of the best episodes ever. That's amazing, absolute no prisoners and only real talk. You also could say the same about football currently
It already upset me when Blizzard tried to cancel a player for speaking up about HK. It’s just gonna get worse guys. Not enough people are actively upset at Blizzard, Riot, the NBA, Disney, etc. to fight against the tyranny of Saudi Arabia or China. They’re just upset at relatively trivial issues which some have labeled “woke culture”. If you’re gonna get so upset at the wrong choice of words, get more upset at actual evil being done to people
This was pure fire! thank you guys for your work!
Ty for the content
Could it be that valve need to intervene as they allow esl to operate in this way, a free market in the cs scene makes it great but regulation may be necessary. They’re the only people seemingly that can change the scene other than the fans.
richards "tomorrow" at the end was great
These are always so great
Real talk, I had no issue paying for the old Monte and DoA OGN Twitch. I also pay for the sub for Evo as well every year. I don't understand people that are unwilling to do that even when they are able.
The best video I’ve seen in a while
57:35 never wast an opportunity to clown on Travis 😂
I was looking for this timestamp, thank you 🤣
Gotta say I’m a huge Thorin supporter after this video despite the huge controversy revolving around tate he still takes the bigger picture and puts it into perspective.
Thorin's always been a man of integrity, so I'm not surprised. Still nice to see though.
Thorin uses Mike Tyson as a comparison but it's not a good comparison. A good comparison is partying with and calling a neonazi leader a friend, or a cult leader. Tate's online influence is cult-like, teaching millions of young impressionable young men that women are property. Having filmed videos where he beats the women he says he has manipulated into doing what he wants to them. Being a rape-enthusiast. The man is a direct danger to society with his influence, he will influence young men to rape and abuse women, there is no question. He has more influence towards hating women than any neonazi alive today has towards hating minorities. It is a mad thing for an org owner to cherish Andrew Tate's presence in any capacity.
@@miksausitis Is it for children though? Is it appropiately licensed and has all it's legal ducks in a row?
@@miksausitis how is a site where you have to be an adult to use it targeting children.
@@ihategoogle5135 cmon now. think.
What's the article Richard mentions at 1:26:50 ?
Hold the line. Don’t bend the knee.
Amazing episode
Thank you
Good to see Richard.
My doodes, I was hoping for them to do a take on this topic
monte "we will get into that" cristo
what a banger of a episode
I love how fast thorin talks compared to how slow Lauren talks XD
Good episode
In Holland we have a saying that goes 'sit still when you are being shaved' Carlos and all people who are targeted in a internet 'outrage of the week' would do themselves a big service taking that to heart.
(+1) wow, what a relevant phrase in this context! 🤔it really hits the nail on the fucking head when you think about it...seriously, it paints a really *explicit* picture/parallel (at least in my mind) haha! 💯
Richard's "tomorrow" at the end is so good
My favorite part about Roosh was finding out he lived in his mother's basement. That was... *chefkiss*
Richard lol got to love the end
Who also has problems keeping up with Thorin? Not sure if it's just his accent or also the cadence of words...
The hooves sound again !!
What blew my mind was just going through Carlos' liked tweets after the whole incident, how could they not fire him, he was liking straight up deranged stuff about the whole situation. Which removed any doubt of that being a careless video
Liking deranged stuff such as?
What's the Neon Deal? Mentioned around 53:30
Neom*
The LEC (League of Legends European Championship) announced a partnership with NEOM which was a project sponsored by the Saudi Government (iirc they tried to build sth like a massive internet expo with also Esports events in Saudi Arabia). After several members of the LEC staff spoke out against it, and the community being in outrage to such a questionable sponsor, Riot cancelled the sponsorship deal the day after it was announced
I used to pay for those old mlg streams 🙈, I never thought paying 10$ for a weekend of fun is a great deal
I am aware that this might not be the best place to ask this question, but how I could support the e-sports industry in the best way, as a financially independent fan, because supporting single content creators does not feel enough, as most of them do not affect the industry in any way, just loading theier privite bank accounts, for their personal reasons, what I understand completly. But the question is there any way we could do it in more efficient way?
You can't really support "the esports industry". It's not like there's a universal pot all the money goes into that gets redistributed. You can support individual teams and TOs through merch, maybe twitch donations/sub's etc. Most of those organizations cash comes from venture capital and sponsors, so them gaining 5000 more followers prooobably helps them more than you giving them $5000 dollars. Still helps obviously, but it'd help spread across 5 or 10 individuals more i think.
But to Montes point: supporting the individual people who create content or more grassroots scenes/organizations will go a lot further. Anything you donate to anyone is "going into a private account" to some degree. I don't think that should stop you supporting the individual people that do good work and improve the scene.
For example: Richard and Thorin's podcast Return of By The Numbers was basically fully fan funded, and i think that show had a net good effect on the scene directly. Same with Summoning Insight.
this kind of twitter dogpilying almost always comes from a place of powerlessness to to kick off real change
Helping the algo
I love that the boys are telling some good jokes and Lauren is just straight faced lol. Richard said he can’t tell the Logan brothers apart and the other two laughed while Lauren watched in silence.
That’s almost every fourth horseman lol
1:49:43 Like a fucking fortune teller, nailed it. Richard read him like a book.
Topic aside since a lot of that in the comments already... I really liked the dynamic of these four. Initially the speed and way Lauren articulates herself was off-putting compared to Thorin, and Richard, but it actually is a nice contrast of voices and delivery. Great episode.
So guilty by proxy now? How many people visited that island again?
Youre joking but people are actually saying if you were on the Island you did the fucked up shit, too.
LMAOOOO please say it LOUDER for those in the back 😂
Problem is not about being friend with the guy, it's showcasing it publicly when you're the CEO of a massive company lmao
True
He's not guilty by proxy. If someone else had posted it, it would have died as a story. But he posted it himself, and then doubled down on it, then tripled. He chose to own it hard.
30:43 56:16 1:20:35
and on a more lighthearted note...
hahaha RL thought he was getting the special introduction.
Inaightful stuff. This definitely should get way more views and discussion.
Commenting for the algorithm
29:30 so what your saying is G2 got caught with an Artosis pylon, too much infrastructure tied to one person?
only thing you gotta watch about all this
the thing i find the most stupid about this drama is twitter acting like you have to 100% agree with someone or you can't be friends with them lol.
Your vision and judgement is clearly clouded by your own ignorance. In your everyday life yes, that might be how it works, but if you can lose millions with 1 phrase, no, you can't openly be friends with a rapist misogynist and double down on it as if it was okay.
There's nuance. It's not hard. It's one thing if you are a Star Wars fan and your friend is a Trekkie. There's an infinite number of opinions we all can disagree with in a healthy and positive manner. Thinking women are property and do not deserve rights is not one of these opinions. It's an extremist take on a topic that affects all of us and no sane person would want to be associated with that.
@@fabian-hugsforhikers I would like to see female youtubers and tiktokers who say the same shit about being cancelled aswell, oh wait a minute gonna be hypocrisy on that. Remember Froskurinn, she said worse things than Tate btw.
@@jormungandr4690 last I remembered frosk and frosks brother isnt being investigated for human trafficking
partying and posting about how you are having a good time with a guy raided by the police for human trafficking, yikes L take
57:50
I love how Lauren says she doesn’t know but still defends them for taking Saudi money lol. No one HAS to take money from anyone.
Lauren final thought makes me think eSports dad went for milk, never came back, and eSports just never recovered from it.
I didn't want to wake up for work in 7 hour, but now I have a reason to be awake in 7 hour.
If you really want to watch right now, vod is available on twitch channel InsightOnEsports.
@@sharadhett9739 Nah, I had to wake up in the morning for work. So it was better I be awake now then staying up watching the video.
Real ones
I wonder what thoorin actually thinks rather than projecting what others think or how they should act. Also should note “canceling” a person is much easier than canceling a company.
It’s funny because you can tell he hates hypocrites but he’s also hypocritical on some stances of Carlos almost favoring him in this situation.
RL had the best take. We also shouldn’t compare whether 1 person trafficking or a whole country trafficking is worse they should both just be terrible not use it as a comparison.
The TLDW thoorin said it best. “Whoever you vouch, you better be prepared to go to war for.” Basically if you’re vouching for you friend and even if you don’t entirely agree with their ideals you should be ready for whatever repercussions. In the end you surround yourself with people who you want to be and guess what Carlos was friends and doubled down on it with Tate. Glad he was kicked out.
I'll admit I don't like Carlos that much. Not during his active pro career and not much afterwards. I have nothing against G2 as an organization though. Usually I just try to avoid Carlos (and as I am not going through Reddit or Social Media that works quite well :D)
Deserve more LIKEs and subscribers.
I am against betting...so mind me for not subscribing QQ
I think people called the horsemen for divine judgment, but instead got Sodom and Gomorrah. Too bad the evil wasn't destroyed, but still exists. Great episode regardless.
To Richards point, we can keep deplatforming people over and over again and someone will come up and take their place
Trying to silence and reacting rashly to controversies these people make is exactly what makes them famous, as Monte said he didn't even know who he was until he managed to stir up the pot in Montes back yard of esports
Now everyone in the league esports LEC sphere knows who he is and will go out and search for him to try and figure out what the overraction is all about
Let's say 50% of people will not want to know who he is, 50% will go out and try and find out, 25% will look at more than what's said about him in the news and actually watch his content, 10% will watch more than one video, and then he ends up with 1% of those people actually agreeing and subscribing to him...and the indirect recruitment process continues
If the "world" really wants to take down "radical individuals" like Andrew Tate, instead of trying to sweep every one of them under the rug, there need to be serious conversation about what makes these people so popular and how is it that their message gets spread so fast
And it's not because there are million of nasty misogynists out there, as we all know people who are most likely to adopt these world views are young men who have a a certain life experience that western society tell them they're not only wrong about but actually bad people to even consider it
What, you're a young white male in the US or UK and you feel like you're struggling in society? Fuck you, you undermine all the struggles of women and minorities
"But, no...I just genuinely had a bad life so far despite being white and male and I could use some help and guidance"....no, fuck you, should up you privileged asshole
Oh, no, what's this, a bunch of people we told can go fuck themselves and their life experience isn't worth the discussion all band together under somebody not afraid to openly talk about things they find relatable?
It must be the fault of Adrew Tate...
No, it's the fault of society, Andrew Tate is just a symbol...he's the symptom, he's not the disease, and the disease will not be cured by killing him off, society has to start acknowledging why his message is so intoxicating and relatable, instead of discarding it as an anomaly in the system rather than an actual system error
If you want to get rid of the Andrew Tates of the world you have to acknowledge what makes them popular and then offer an alternative, otherwise we'll just keep repeating the process over and over again
People dont want a solution. People want "enemies" to project their inner insecurities and jelaousy towards. They speak of peace yet they crave conflict. They love the drama. They feed on it, live on it.
Thats the reality for the majority of people. They simply live in loops and they want that experience to keep going F O R E V E R.
facts
@@andreypavlov5187 yeah that's true, I think it was thorin mentioned that in the video too, peeople love to have the feeling of being holier than thou and using public rejection of bad people to signal their virtue
It’s the same shit with the right wing radicals. If they have slightly different opinions just keep defaming them as Nazis until only real fascist assholes want to talk to them.
I took two minutes out out of my life to read it in thorins voice. Not dissappointed
To be honest they were talking about the e-sport industry but it is the same in real life with all industries. Everyone keeps quiet about what is happening in the middle east and China - as long as they get their things cheaply made and get their oil at good prices.
Thoooooorin all the way
The real breaking news is that Monte hasn't heard of Andrew Tate somehow
There are definitely a lot bigger issues in esports than Carlos and Tate hanging out, but no individual or even angry twitter mob can change any of those bigger issues. That's why a lot of the time energy goes into publicly shaming people who associate with asshats like Tate, because it's the only avenue people have to effect change, even if that change is minimal.
Literally didn't change anything at all
I would argue its worse than just being incapable to change anything, twitter mobs just want to FEEL like they made a change by screeching into cyberspace, regardless of the result
@@onceuponatime9499 it literally made g2 lose their valorant spot and we might be seeing Carlos lose his position within G2. So it changed a shit load
@@lazydj no it didn't they'll just get in at next possible opportunity a year or so down the line when everyone that pretends they care has forgotten
People can boycott which works and is possible. Sadly the media has brainwashed people into perpetual self-defeat and pessimism. Segregation would never have ended without the radical optimism of people like MLK Jr. We need more people like that to inspire and lead.
Ernesto Sabato said that the child that doesn't find a Father at home, will find it in the streets 🤔
Thee algo!
I agree that we the viewers were part of the problem that has led to how things have ended up but would this even be an industry that it is now without the free to watch consume model? I know it would exist but would it have grown to be as big as it is now if it wasnt a free product? I feel like this notion can be said along side of hindsight is always 20/20. Also even if we knew this would be the outcome would it have changed anything? course not, humans and their greed... will be the downfall of our race! (Wars can continue so long as supplies continue, supplies continue as long as .. well im sure you know)
It would have but not as rapid.
We all forgot about renegades...zzz
So by G2 and the esports world logic, if I made a 5 sec vid with 5 birds, I can fly afterwards? yeah okay
Thorin defending the 2nd tweet by Carlos is hilarious.
thorin is forsenbussin
Man Richard said it best, if you draw the line and say you dont want Andrew Tate or his his likes in ESports but then come crying to Riot who had a lawsuit filed against them for SA.....the udder hypocrisy. Saw a take from Travis and Mark on hotline and both of them are like ewww AT, but one of them is still hired by riot and the other does event for them(Riot)......who as a company has done more harm to women then AT in regards to the female in esports.
Ah nice, I was wondering if Richard was gonna continue to be on this show, glad he’s staying
he's just here for a special session of pearlclutching. Don't get your hopes up.
@@peepopoo4387 yeah I know what you mean. I don’t particular feel like Andrew Tate barely having an interaction with esports really justified an episode of Four Horsemen.
Being ethical in everything you do is a challenge. Even this podcast, outing some questionably ethical areas of esports is sponsored by a gambling company... The issue here is that esports isn't making any money which leads to people taking whatever they can get.
What exactly is wrong with betting?
Taking dirty money isnt the same as platforming and defending the face of misogynie. Big corporations own everything, dirty money is everywhere.. Money owns everything, alot of times this money has been acquired in questionable ways.. that's capitalism for you.
Isn't it too late to be worrying about "ethics" in esports.
Lol wait did she call him violent!? Lmao are you kidding me. He hasnt been found guilty for anything of the sort.
So, when going after G2 via Carlos is not OK, but going via riot after Casters other personalities is OK? Double standards.
34:34 I agree with Richard. As soon as all of this happened, the best conclusion I could reach was for G2 to part ways with Carlos, sad or not.
Honestly this is the podcast that will come closest to being rational/neutral and 80% of what is said is pure ideological demagoguery. Please anyone, nuke this planet already. I am so done with everything. Truth has been forgotten.
The girls face when throfin speaks shows us how she doesn’t like him.
Monte should have repeated his solution to every problem one more time, I didn't quite get who I am supposed to give money. How he kept emphazising that honestly left quite a sour taste in my mouth together with the betting advertisements...
Andrew didn't say anything misogynistic. You people take everything out of context and paint him as misogynistic. Watch Andrew Tate 5 hr interview with PBD, hope it will clarify lot of things. But you people are so full of yourself that you will not watch and not try to understand.
I also think hate is very detrimental. Hate always comes from below. So try to avoid hate in life.
This video is a big “well this guys killed someone but so what!! There is this other guy killing hundreds” undermining what happened by talking about bigger things. Of course there is always going to be something worse but just whipping the topic off seems like a big L from this debate.
is that Ethan or Dick Lewy with that lefty paintbrush take.. good job nerd
what is embarrassing about the tates ? u dont have to aggree but not to be in the same romm seems strange to me ..
It’s because they are cowards afraid of being cancelled by association. Just shows how bad the censorship has got
Agree with most that has been said about Tate (didnt knew him till now). But i have to dislike the video because of the sofistic methods used in the diaologue. Yo fell to the use of demagogic rethorics (as in by the traditional aristotelic definitions) wich i think a reporter should never use id he is truly in pursuit of truth. Anyway i enjoy your content and appreciate the sharing of your research. Just had to say this because in comparison with other episodes i think this is subpar
I wonder who hurt Richard?
if you listened to his content over the years, you would know the answer is his father. He'll attack you for getting personal, but he's aired this stuff on his public show.
@@peepopoo4387 No need to attack anyone. You made this up, My dad was in prison for almost all my life. How could he possibly hurt me?
@@RLewisReports by not being there for you of course which is arguably the greatest sin a father can commit. Anyways this is just getting mean, but I'll never forget what you said about your country and wanting more immigration when your main city is already dead natively. You didn't have someone to teach you to love your own people and that your nation is an extension of your family just like your own neighborhood and community. This is where I feel the need to bully you into being a normal human because someone didn't teach you this and you became a leftie loon.
@@RLewisReports and I wish I was making this stuff up including you wishing for more immigrants on your tiny, demographically-dying island, but this is you. Don't pretend not having a dad around hasn't shaped your life and hasn't hurt you. I know from my experiences with a bad divorce that it sucks and messes you up and a lot of people don't even realize it and tell themselves that they don't need a dad.
What I would get is like a riot employee not saying anything towards riot/china/Saudi Arabia bc their career depends on it. Fair enough.
But don't get on the high horse once you can slam downwards.
That's just disgusting.
Either put up or shut up
Great episode on a horrible topic. Really frustrating the more you think about it. I think also Lauren had a great point in that its much easier to just disagree with statements from a single individual compared to all the different things that go on in a company.
How do I as a random outsider change a gigantic company like Riot games. Personally I feel powerless when it comes to the doings of countries and global companies.
These things need to change from within. I stopped using/consuming/buying certain things as thats the only power I have but most of the time the things are already too big too fail.
Yeah, she nailed what they were all missing. The more complex and complicated an issue the more difficult it is to take a hard stand against it. With Tate it's simple, deplatformed and removed from the public eye. For riot what can they do where everyone finds an acceptable outcome? It's going to be different for everyone. It's also just a matter of how much time and how much can they invest themselves in emotionally to actually dig through a situation? Not everyone's whole life is esports. I really doubt 99% of the people that play Riot's games know exactly the weight of how bad the things Riot does are. Whereas I do not know many people my age that do not know andrew tate and his views.
But definitely the companies should be called out more for their shit. Turning a blind eye to the more horrible thing just because they pay more money is crazy
An apologist attitude from a hypocite. Literally every single moron on reddit who applauded Riot or any other company is a low IQ retard who is minus to society. Riot is literally owned by people who enslave others and build death camps for them.
@Vasy lol nice, do I get a medal? :D
Don't play games by Riot.
This blaming capitalism thing is dumb. The problem is intellectual property laws keeping code locked behind Riot Games gate keepers. All problems would be solved with open source code, games, and tournaments. The free market would solve all of these problems if it was actually a free market. Maybe that's more correctly described as voluntaryism instead of capitalism, but that's the real solution.
Not to mention the fiat monetary system that totally warps everything. "Capitalism" is just the natural, free exchange of goods between consenting individuals. It's when that process takes place through the medium that is fiat money do you get the corruption and perverse incentives that arise from the power of a few to manipulate the value of the money through control of its supply.
Goddamn, love how Thorin just went in on social justice slacktivists. I've call this shit out once, and I got a cop out answer "Im just spreading awareness".
Yup, spreading awareness to the fact that they're a spineless, hypocritical ninny I'm sure. ;]
What the hell did i just watch? I know Richard Lewis isn't the most savvy bloke out there but he basically goes full NPC in the first half here, though admittedly he does redeem himself a bit in the second half when he shuts down the dense woman in the bottom right as she's regurgitating *insane* CNN talking points about "muh disinformation and radicalisation".
And then we have Thorin, a guy who made his bones as a tough talking edgy hard-man, now telling other people "ohhh be careful who you stick up for online, some people are too edgy and you're all just uninformed plebs who are incapable of accurately assessing that!" It's madness, they correctly assess the point that the entire industry are headed by corrupt, evil, liars who have done far worse than just have edgy opinions online but somehow we don't then get to the correct conclusion, which is that *everybody* should stop trying to be the morality police, somehow the conclusion reached is that there needs to somehow be more morality policing? I'm at a loss for words.
ayo he was not a mediocre kickboxer he was legit a champion of multiple weight classes what?
Richard is an unbias journalist that does his research... pfff
I doubt Richard cares enough about that guy to look into his backstory and his life. He doesn't want to know and he doesn't need to know.
@@TheSergio1021 "World champion" means nothing in kickboxing or muay thai. Real combat sport fans know Tate never fought the best
Richard got it right. Tate never fought an elite fighter
intro carried by Thorin, as usual :D
Why does monte look like something azir has risen from the sand? Seriously he looks like he should be fighting the spartans. Is it the light that makes him look so... gold...?
Thorin the most objective and well researched here as usual, probably worth a thorins thoughts on andrew tate.
This is a joke right?
@@lazydj compared to the other guests, not really
ooh.. *SPICY*
just the way I like it.