Redemption is subjective, and former villains often face the lasting shadow of their past actions. People will always remember their previous cruelties, and it’s understandable why they do so. A history of wrongdoing leaves a deep impression, one that’s not easily erased. This makes it difficult for society to fully accept any transformation, no matter how genuine it may seem. While I personally believe Negan has redeemed himself, I respect those who remain skeptical. Their caution is warranted given the gravity of his past misdeeds, and it really showcases how challenging the path to redemption can be.
Negan is very interesting how he was dealt with in the show vs the comics. In the show: He is complicated but he’s trying to atone for his past sins against the communities. In the comics: Negan also assists against the Whisperers but is eventually exiled and Maggie finds him but chooses to let him live with his guilt. We never see Negan again until the final issue where we see the shadow of a man kneeling of a makeshift grave. Unable to redeem himself in the eyes of those he wronged and trying to find some semblance of peace in the new world. Personally, I think both are fine for their respective mediums.
@@blackrose8418 Yeah. Comic Negan as the villain was the best. JDM was funny, but honestly I felt like I could have a drink with him still. In the comic, the man was brutal.
@@1dorgodsportsandmusica Chad could be colloquially understood as a man who portrays the epitome of masculinity and or can also be a understood as someone who stands his ground when he knows he’s correct rather than giving into what the crowd says to do. For example for most of the waking dead Rick grimes behaves like a Chad in that he tried his best to do the right thing even against insurmountable odds and decent from his fellow survivors.
After the death of Carl and the known exit of Andrew Lincoln and with him the departure of Rick Grimes they had no choice but to try to redeem Neegan. They had only three characters that the audience knew anything about and cared for and those were Maggie, Daryl, and Carol. All of these three were strong side characters but not able to carry the show. They needed to build up other good characters for the audience to love but every single time the audience got to love a character they killed them off! So now they were stuck with Neegan! Everyone despises him (because he was played so extraordinarily well by his actor.) Maggie and her son being a constant reminder of how he destroyed Glen in such a terrible way. Then there’s all the terrible things he’d done including debasing Daryl and even harming his own previous followers! He was always going to be a hard sell and extremely unpopular character that the audience wasn’t going to be willing to give a chance to! That’s why the show pretty much died when Carl did!
Maggie: *gives a logical explanation to why she won't forgive Negan* Negan: "wE dOn'T hUrT KiDs!" Also Negan: *tries to k*ll Carl* 🤔 Negan: "wE diDnT k*ll pEoPLe wHo DidN't dEsErVe iT!" Also Negan: *literally k*lls Olivia and his only doctor* 🤔 Fans: "i HaTe MaGGie sHe'S sUcH a HyPoCriTe 🥴"
@@djkin5501Okay but he ordered Arat to murder someone. If it wasn't Olivia it woulda been a stronger member of the group, which was what Negan was implying. Which woulda been way worse. Negan either goes for the strongest ones in order to show the group that their strongest is dead/broken, or he goes for innocents, whose deaths will break the others as he displays repeatedly as his main tactic.
Even understanding he is irredeemable, he has a unique perspective about how peoples actions changed during the apocalypse and how even knowing what he did, he has capacity to change his feelings and actions for the better
Negan is not beyond redemption, you say no as if your say so means it’s the truth, it isn’t, the governor is worse than negan, the claimers and cannibals were beyond redemption, not negan.
@@Lauriestrode1978 Yeah? He bringing all his straight up murder victims back to life? Or maybe inventing a time machine? Negan was on even footing with everyone else you mentioned, an unrepentant murderer driven by greed, power, and desperate insanity. Utterly beyond redemption, and in my point of view he's worse than the governor, the governor was a cowardly idiot that happened to have the right muscle. Negan was smart enough to know the right way, courageous enough to do things the right way, and still didn't. He chose to be an idiot coward, at least the governor was born that way.
@@Lauriestrode1978Serial rapist check, force submission check, mass murderer check, terrible leadership and system check, and looting and stealing without any incentive for the community to give it up check. Yea no he is beyond redemption but what’s fascinating is that he is willing to atone for it even if it’s known he’s irredeemable
@@enriqueperezarce5485The thing is, redemption and evil-doing are subjective in the context of the world literally ending and societal breakdown. There isn't really a single character on the show by the end of TWD that couldn't be argued is subjectively "beyond redemption," at least in Negan's case he can argue he truly thought he was helping / saving people with his actions. He probably IS beyond redemption, but I don't think it's clear or obvious at all
My problem is that Negan wasn't the TYPE of character who would have sought redemption. It wasn't his ACTIONS that made him so evil, it was his SADISM, his outright joy in inflicting pain and terror that made him evil. And that sadism was waved away when the show creators decided they wanted Negan as a main character. He talked about his past deeds as if they were utilitarian and misguided but never once talked about how he enjoyed them. When he talked to Maggie never once was the CONTEXT of Glen's murder addressed, the glee and mockery he took in it and in tormenting the others. While I did like the character Negan and some of the stories that came out of his redemption arc, I found it unbelievable.
I agree completely - it’s not just that he killed Glenn, it’s HOW he did it and how he clearly felt while doing it. He can say it was all a show to maintain power and therefore order, but I don’t buy it.
@@rainbow_doglover8301but what most of you are forgetting is that there was a considerable time difference between negan then and the negan who talked about how he regretted killing Glenn etc… he was in prison for 7.5 years. Yes he did some sadistical things, and sadism can be a greyscale, but what about the trash people? They fulfilled their usefulness, and they never would have assisted in the war with how high the stakes were. Why would negan entrust Simon to bend their will when he could have very well re-enacted the same scene of Glenn’s murder? I think he did some evil things but he wasn’t evil. And to be quite frank I’m not even sure Maggie can entirely remember word for word what happened or was acted. It was so traumatic I’m sure she relives the moment but can forget nuances. Negan wouldn’t be the one to bring that up, it would only hurt his case.
I agree I’ve told my cousin who is a avid watcher of the series and verse, that Negan is unrealistic because he was a sadist he reveled in the killing and destruction, and for him not to admit it at least damages his redemption a bit for me not entirely but a thorn in the side
@@enriqueperezarce5485 sadism isn’t permanent. Nature vs nurture. Negan, Hitler, dahmer, gacey were all nurtured and coerced through a formula of factors into becoming individuals who did evil things. It wasn’t nature. Therefore redemption is possible. If you aren’t born a psychopath psychologically then redemption is possible given you aren’t killed. Just because most sadistical people in the walking dead probably wouldn’t have sought or even successfully attained redemption, doesn’t mean Negan is automatically thrown into that mix. He’s an outlier.
Negan will be forever haunted by his past, meaning that no matter what he can never live a truly fulfilling life anymore. Negan can never be redeemed, but he isnt the same person anymore either. It's complicated. In my eyes he deserves a chance at life again, but everyone feels differently.
Yes, he was willing to die at the hands of Herschel. With no resistance whatsoever. And he explained to Maggie. He understands now. After he went through something similar so. He will probably act as an undercover agent. And Maggie will explain that to Rick, in time I hope.
Redemption is a journey....some acts take longer than others...some act take a lifetime. Negan is in a redemption arc...and Maggie is the polar opposite by denying that she too has blood on her hands as well as in large part....the cause of her own losses.
@@silentj624 Plus Maggie to make the deal to kill Negan for food and supplies...the deal that led to Glenn killing Negan's men in their sleep...that led to Negan's retaliation...that led to Abe's death as well as Glenn's. TBF Negan would have found them eventually after Jesus introduced them to Greg
Negan is redeemed, specially after having a wife and a child... but, he's still a huge hypocrite who acts like he and Rick were the same, like their groups did the same things to survive, when it was the complete opposite.
@@dwnkaomwn3953 Rick's group killed over 100 of Negan's people in their sleep, the saviours killed much less people in Rick's group while they were awake.
Not worse, but what they did, they did to survive, not for fun. Rick never forced women to marry him otherwise he'd kill their husbands, Rick never burned people's faces with an iron to make them "learn", Rick never made anyone kneel for him, Rick never mocked anyone while killing them, Rick never tortured people for fun, Rick never enslaved sick people, Rick never "punished" people because they were stealing medicine, etc... The whole idea of Rick being better than Negan is not simply what the writers "wants us to believe" , it's a fact. They actually want fans to believe Negan is somehow equivalent to Rick, he isn't, and will never be!
@@micahbell5572 Rick and company did what needed doing to keep their community and people fed/safe. Negan would've done the same to them if the situation was in reverse. Plus, Captain Gold mentioned in one of his other videos that what Rick and company did wasn't necessarily wrong anyway. Minus the workers, the Saviors weren't good people.
Negan was a strong leader. His leadership style was necessary for the type of people he was leading: mostly cutthroats. Problem is that he lost sight of himself
His leadership style wasn’t going to work long term, sure maybe with those cutthroats, but the people he subjected nah never. It was doomed to fail eventually once he showed weakness
He got a second chance that he absolutely, definitely did not deserve, but you can’t deny that he is a changed man. Still not perfect, still not deserving of the life he has, but he is definitely nowhere near as bad as he used to be and usually tries to do good things to make up for what he’s done. The only way he can make a real dent in repaying what he has done is if he spends the rest of his life in 100% servitude and doing good things for others.
Honestly a better ending for Negan would have been Maggie having him at gunpoint but then deciding to spare him only for a gunshot to ring out and for Negan’s eyes to go wide before he drops dead with the camera slowly revealing little Hershel holding the smoking gun
imo they wouldve needed to adress how negan had multiple "wives",but thats just a fancier way of saying sex slaves,and the show never adressed this either,so,until they do,negan will never be redeemed for me,they simply tweaked his personality a bit and thats it,as the good deeds dont begin to atone for the shit hes done
Getting rid of Negan is like Joffrey firing Barriston Selmy in GOT TV show. He’s a monster, but if you can leash him. He’d be the biggest deterrent of rebellions/raiders. Like a scarecrow in the cornfields.
He MIGHT be a "good" guy now buuutttt this was a guy who RULED by putting hot irons against people's faces then taking their wives as his own. Sure nooooow he's different but WHAT IF Rick Grimes hadn't come along and MADE HIM change his ways? What would STILL be going on?, would he have "changed" at all?
Yes he is redeemed he is a change man an im happy for him he found someone that love him he told the king an meggie how sorry he was he on the good side now
THEY HAVE ALL KILLED AND DONE SOME SERIOUS SHIT BUT ONLY NEGAN HAS TRIED TO REDEEM, NEGAN saved blind Aaron, saved Judith & dog in the blizzard, saved Lydia from the lynching, saved Daryl from the whisperers, Killed Alpha & helped take down Beta, helped Aldan from the Reapers, Saved Hershel Jr. (multiple times)
When he was apologizing to Maggie is when he was redeem. That felt like a heartfelt message and Maggie talked to him about how she can’t forgive him but she is trying. He sacrificed a lot to protect his wife, Maggie, and Hershel. He might deserve death, however I still see him as redeemed
I disagree, he is irredeemable, but his atonement journey is very good imo. He can never be redeemed he has done too many heinous acts selfishly and for himself.
Killing negan right before completing his redemption arc would have been the best way to end his story. Some things are unforgivable and don’t deserve redemption.
I agree with this even though Negan is my favorite character. However, I think the writers felt the need to keep Negan alive for the reasons that he said in the video
100% agree. Only reason I attempted to finish twd was to see if they'd deliver justice against Negan. Once I saw that not only were they not gonna do that, but they were making Maggie and him work together, I was like nope. This is some kind of perverted fantasy where a man kills the pretty girl's husband and takes her for his own and I won't have my nuts clipped by watching it. I held out a long time. I think I was in the final few episodes. Not worth it. There is a clear path toward justice in this case, and the show instead is putting Maggie through some humiliation ritual and even giving them their own show. They have no respect for the gravity of what they did when they killed Glenn.
7:40 Tbf, if she was there all alone, how else would she get out of the situation? Not implying negan thought like that in the moment, or some chit like "he helped her see her true strength" etc, but he didnt even try and end her on the spot like he could have. And yeah, ofc hes redeemed himself.
I would never say Negan is redeemed. First of all, all his actions are irredeemable. Rape, exploitation, enslavement, torture, murder, these are not acts that set one up for redemption. Not to mention his petty evil actions, like taking all the mattresses from Alexandria just to burn them and everything he does to specifically break Rick. The only reason he didn't have the Saviors steal Alexandria's food is that the community was already at starvation rations and he didn't want the people he was now enslaving to go into a famine because they wouldn't have the energy to serve him. There's also Negan's motivation behind his changed behavior. It wasn't out of a true realization of how horrible he was and his desire to change. He, like a lot of people in the real world, just wanted to stop being public enemy number one and having his past atrocities continually held against him. Judith even points this out to him. Sure he could have killed The Family, Ezekiel, Enid, and everybody, but then he'd be alone and have to rebuild. We saw how he couldn't handle being alone. Also, it took him being on his knees about to witness Annie and her son be killed to understand what he put Maggie, Rick, et. al through with the lineup and him about to murder Carl if it weren't for a very well-timed tiger attack. I would say a redeemed person wouldn't need to actively live through the same terror to have this epiphany.
I don't know. I often get to the point where I think the other characters should cut him some slack, but when I rewatched Season 7, my feelings went back to thinking he is unforgivable. HOWEVER, I don't think he should have been constantly humiliated and punished for the sake of cruelty. Solitary confinement is recognized as torture, fwiw. I understand that vengeance is practically a universal human trait, but if he had already served his actual punishment, it's just cruel to constantly mock him and exclude him from anything within his eyesight and earshot. I'm thinking of Dead City in particular, with all of the petty things Maggie did to exclude him *while* enlisting his help, because he "owes" her an eternal debt for killing Glenn in such a horrific way. While I understand her perspective and actions, I can also understand and empathize with the fact that nobody likes to feel that they're eternally "on call" for any favor that someone asks of them, and that they have to always say yes because of "what they did". From Negan's perspective, he served his punishment. Rock made the decision to spare his life and imprison him instead, much to some people's chagrin, Maggie being the main one. However, just like in our real societies, criminals who have served their punishments are still reviled and mistreated by society after they reenter the world. Most people consider it fine to be cruel to these people and see it as an unofficial continuation of their punishment. They may be physically "free", but that's not going to stop other people from being judgmental and acting accordingly.
I think one of the reason people tend to label Maggie as some kind of hypocrite is because, while her want for revenge is completely understandable and justified, it seems as though she would sacrifice others of her group or innocent bystanders to get her revenge; while Negan acted brutally and egotistically while thinking he was acting in the interest of his people, Maggie could very easily turn into Negan in her quest for revenge, at which point she would not necessarily be better than the one she rightfully accuses of having caused her the most intense harm imaginable. If Maggie is consumed by revenge - which could easily happen and would be more than understandable, which doesn't make it right -, she could run the risk of becoming the very thing that caused her to want revenge in the first place. And I think, to some extent, Negan is actually aware of that: he is completely honest in regards to admitting that he'd do it all over again, meaning that his intentions seem to be honest, but also because he now understands what loosing someone you love can turn you into - he may be afraid that he created an involuntary student of the Saviour life, which he himself had created only after loosing what he loved the most: Lucille. Maggie could turn into that as well, and for the same reasons. Which is why Negan tries to explain himself at times, and sometimes seem to consider killing Maggie or leaving her to her fate, kind of like a mercy killing which he might have wanted after Lucille's death - and to prevent a repetition of history that, if it were to occur, may cause more harm than Negan the Saviour ever did. Negan's redemption does not necessarily lie in atoning for his sins: he always wants to act in the best interest of others, not himself. But he must learn to properly differentiate between what he wants and may disguise as some kind of benevolent altruism, and what others truly need from him. That, I think, explains some of the ambiguitiy he harbors towards Maggie and others. Only when he is able to realize what others need from him and what he is capable to give, without ever falling into the trap of confusing necessity with selfish desire, would he be truly redeemed. His tragedy lies in that misconception: his redemption is contained therein also.
He's redeeming himself, sure. But I still say Rick should have killed him or let Maggie kill him for what he did to Abraham and Glenn. The only reason I would not kill him would be in consideration of why he did it. They killed a lot of his people. Still...I'd have sided with Maggie moat likely.
I think he's redeemed himself on the killing. Its a hard world in The Walking Dead and he needed to be harder to bring some semblance of order. He had to use an incredibly heavy and sadistic hand when dealing with Alexandria because they'd already proven just how dangerous they can be to him. And they were literally at war in season 8. The thing I find much harder to redeem (and that they haven't really attempted to redeem him on, likely because they can't come up with a good way to do it; I can't either tbh) is the sexual coercion of his "wives" in the Sanctuary. Yeah they willingly "chose" this as their job in his new order but they CLEARLY didn't want to be with him and he used the authority he commanded to force them into giving themselves to him.
This hits the worst in dead city. Seeing him be s7 negan, but watching him do it to terrify our enemies left me so uneasy. I was so grateful for him, and it made me sick.
Ngl Comic Negan and Show Negan are two very different characters I feel. Show Negan, to me, wants redemption. He wants to be able to care for his family and do better by them, For Carl and Lucille. Comic Negan I feel doesn’t try to seek redemption. He’s more jsut looking for a way out and Rick was looking for “plausible deniability” or simple fighting monsters with monsters. After this Event, Negan proceeded to screw off in his Cabin, presumably till he dies.
I believe in forgiveness and that if a person truly wants to and takes steps towards change then eventually they can.Some people don't which i think is pretty egotistical and self righteous because we're all potential villains in somebody else's story but all the while we all think we're the good guy. Forgive but don't forget.
My personal take on this is quite simple: Redemption ≠ forgiveness. IMO, all you should really strive to do for redemption is 2 check markers. A) you beed to be a changed person. You have to be different, and no longer commiting negative acts. B) you need to have helped people, and done more good, protecting and saving more than you’ve hurt and killed. I believe negan has done both of these, and as a result has more than earned his redemption. HOWEVER, again, redemption does not mean he will be forgiven. I think that is where a lot of viewers go wrong. Because many viewers, like maggie, refuse to forgive negan (rightfully so), so they do not believe he can atone. But he has atoned.
On paper, Negan is a redeemable character, but realistically he is irredeemable. What he has done in his past is absolutely unforgivable, so I firmly believe he should’ve been left behind or left for dead. Not that he should’ve died just they should’ve let him go. Yes, he’s been in prison for years & after the imprisonment, he should’ve been let go into the wild like an animal. Take it from someone who literally SIMPS over Negan, my guys.
Agreed I love Negan cause I would act like him in the apocalypse, always joking around and be sarcastic most of the time, basically Carlos or Luis from Resident Evil. Though never act sadistic like him
I will put this simply as I can, Negan saw the error of his ways when he was down on his knees about to lose everything, just like he said, I believe he got himself together and he is his own person.. but when it comes to who was worse, logically was the Saviours Our group always did everything to keep each other safe as possibly as they could, they grew into the world but they didn't torture people out of fun or enslave them etc. Negan actually believed his ways were good, but they were just enslaving other communities for their benefit, killing someone for stupid reasons, besides workes, almost everyone was a psycho who enjoyed violence, They came to Hilltop, they killed 16 year old boy infront of them to watch, they made photos out of Lucille victims, Rick needed to make the trade work + his people were attacked already before so it was a threat, they just didn't have much information about their numbers, so they did it as safe as possible, during night, I do believe the group was in right to eliminate those dangerous people, Negan only had the upper hand with numbers, Rick isn't supposed to be perfect and save everybody but underneath those things he and the group had to do to survive, he is a good man with moral compass unlike Negan and his group
No he is definitely WAS a evil man, objectively and morally he is, Rick was a man who did bad things but was never evil cause he was grounded and did it for the group not himself only. Negan was surrounded by savages basically.
Just saying in the zombie apocalypse, a month is a year, with how deadly the world is, against humans and walkers it just is that fact as its absolute hell. So the fact he was in jail for 7 and a half YEARS. He had security, food, warm place to sleep. Bro.... his time was made
Honestly I consider pretty much everyone in the walking dead horrible people with some of them being nicer than others. Everyone’s more focused on killing each other than the walkers themselves
I’m in a rather interesting position in a discussion like this. I never really watched the early seasons of the walking dead. By now I’m familiar with a lot of the events of the early seasons but I really never saw the show until I watched it one night at a friends house and it was the season 7 premiere. I only bring that up to highlight I never had some attachment to Glenn or Abraham. That said it was certainly brutal what Negan did there but makes some sense in the larger context. I myself do think he has been redeemed for the most part but I do understand why Maggie can’t get past it. It would be pretty great if she could though because as Negan points out in Dead City they do make a hell of a team. I’m not saying they should become a romantic pairing or anything as I’ve seen a few people suggest in the past but if they establish some level of friendship that would be really cool I think
In an interview about Bojack Horseman, they discuss how media is more focused on the redemption of abusers rather than the healing of Victims. So I ask is redeeming Negan good for Maggie and company?
He seems to have gone legit and JDM has a magnetic energy in the role of Negan though I have to say I feel reforming an antagonist would have been better suited for Shane as he had a decent amount of history with the majority of the main group during his stay on the show and had been in good standing with them for a time as the groups de facto leader. It seems as though they played around with the idea in the conclusion of 18 miles out but ultimately went the route of killing him off to complete Ricks arc of the season and likely due to Jon Bernthal opting to be written out with the departure of Frank Darabont from the series.
I don't think Negan was ever fully redeemed, he got a partial redemption and I think that works fine for his character. I would have liked to see him sit down with everyone he affected though, not just Maggie. Everyone's hatred is justified but it would be nice to see him apologize to Ezekiel and Aaron. As a side note I would have preferred someone like Aaron let Negan out of the cage initially to stop Alpha, since it would have been more personal with that action than Carol, who yeah, lost Glenn and Abraham but it just felt random to have her be the one do do it imo.
Nah not really, we all know the saviors were the aggressors, and we’re the ones who are more objectively terrible, I’m not saying Rick’s group wasn’t innocent (literally killed a lot of innocent workers within the Saviors) but we’re way better
I think hes in the process of being redeemed for his actions but it always takes a multitude of good to overcast a little bad, Negan has done so much bad he'd probably die trying to be redeemed by human standards.
I don't agree that Daryl and Carol weren't enough to carry the show. The way they WROTE those characters from S6 - S11 weren't enough, but that's on the writers not the actors or the characters.
His antisocial personality disorder is what makes him such a @#$%&. But every bad blood individual eventually sees the light. In Negans case he gets to experience pure solitude later on simply og his weak ways. That's a Boomers take.
Love compassion and forgiveness my friend....i forgive him....but ill never forget what he did. In a world like that, I understand why he was the way he was, but i dont necessarily agree with it. You beat the brains out of bad people. My boy Glenn didn't deserve what he got. That episode still gets me to this day 😕
I think the only thing this video doesn't account for is the fact that sometimes redemption just isn't a possibility, but if we're saying it's always possible then I'd agree with this take for the most part
Yeah he definitely has been redeemed IMO. SHOULD he be redeemed?? Nope! His rules and army of saviors were never going to work. Hell, the CLAIMERS had a more simple system IMO!!
@@NeonKittyDream Depending on your interpretation of redemption. In the video I gave a clear interpretation of it -> being the act of a person changing for the better. Which Negan has. If your interpretation is more in line with the repaying of a moral debt, then it would certainly be more relevant. That’s not my interpretation. That said, I spent some time denouncing Negan’s sexual coercion in my initial Negan video. I even prefaced the video by stating I covered Negan’s Savior days in a previous video. So it’s kinda crazy not to pay attention to the first few sentences lol I have covered the very thing you said I haven’t.
@TheRealCaptainGold lol yeah I saw the vid. You mentioned his other wrongs in this one though. So clearly, you thought those were relevant. I'm saying that the sexual assault was also relevant.
@@NeonKittyDream I just didn’t want to be redundant. If I mentioned all his wrongs, the video would be longer than the first lol I think they’re all relevant.
@@AmericanImperium1776the ricktatorship was barely a dictatorship, rick stepped up, he kept them alive throughout the entire winter with a pregnant wife, the situation was extreme and he never abused anyone, negan was more than just a dictator, he was a manipulative murdering psychopath.
I feel like the story would've been better if they spread the timeline of season 7 over a month long frame. The whole season got squished into less than a week.
Ima say no. The choices we make aren’t redeemable we can’t take back what we’ve done and the loss he’s inflicted on many others not just Maggie and the main group proves that
the entire point of blame is to predict someone's future consequences in order to protect yourself. if someone is redeemed it means that you trust them to not do what they used to do, unredeemed means you don't. so yeah a choice cant be "redeemable" because that concept doesn't make any sense, we dont redeem choices we redeem people
Thorfinn is objectively better person and can actually be redeemed given he was forced into the Viking life as a literal kid bruh. Askeladd can’t be redeemed as he was a leader of the marauders and destroyed countless villages and stuff.
I stopped watching The Walking Dead at some point in the middle of season 7 but I've since gone back to revisit the show. Picking things up where I left off, I'm halfway into season 9. While I like Negan as an antagonist, I personally feel he is irredeemable. Now that I know that's the direction they went with him, I'm not sure how I'm going to react to that development as I really wanted to see him get what was coming to him.
As much as I hated savior Negan, his character saved the show and has been just plain awesome for TV! Even if Glenn (my favorite all time character) did die at his hands, his character is just so well written.
The Governor, Negan, Gareth, and Alpha were evil to Rick and the group but everything they did was mainly for the survival of their groups in that universe. Everyone outside your group is probably an enemy in that world.
LMAO the governor and alpha? The governor literally killed his own group, and alpha repeatedly killed whisperers or told beta to kill whisperers. Neither has a right to claim anything was for the survival of their groups.
@rainbow_doglover8301 the only saviours I remember negan killing are David who tried to grape sasha, the doctor who he thought let daryl escape and Simon whom literally betrayed him. Point is he had good reasons for killing all of them, but the governor killed all his people because they retreated from an unwinnable battle and alpha killed people because they disagreed with her and on one occasion she killed someone because he saw her cry.
Funny thing is I was trying to look for something Negan could hold to redeem himself even after all the murders he did but when he showed Carl his place and having a lot of wives just for his pleasure I lost the hope he could redeem himself for me, to the point where I would just fast forward all his scene so that I don't have to put up with his BS. I'm almost done with season 7 and its hard just to see the saviors bully people most of the episode. I hope they really make Negan redeemable because to me theres some shit I dont think he could just regret or look over. I don't even care that he killed my favorite characters, I really don't care I just want to watch a good show but the way theyre dragging Negans story I just can't.
I thought it was pretty silly Maggie never killed him at any point after Glen’s death. Didn’t make sense for Maggie to put up with it. It’s unforgivable what he did, she should’ve executed him and she would be forgiven given what happened to Glen. His redemption is depicted as genuine, but if this wasn’t the amazing Jeffrey Dean Morgan he would need to be killed off. I couldn’t forgive his character so it made little sense how everyone was putting up with him. He’s killed and messed with countless lives.
I agree that he is a redeemed character! That was never even my issue... I just find it difficult to believe that a guy like Negan would redeem himself for any other reason than selfishness and strongly disagree with the choice of the show writers to let him live and even escape the punishment of a lifetime in prison! Plus I truly believe that even redeemed Negan is a wildcard and could fall back into old patterns because he still believes what he believed when he was the leader of the Saviors and always enjoys violence and power!
This was the worst change from the comics. Negan with a big mad dog with a big stick and his job was to take out Beta and die in the process, crippling the worst of the humans. Instead the third worst monster of the apocalypse got a redemption because the he was the writers' favourite character or something. I know the comics retconned his survival somehow too, which is just as bogus.
the ONLY thing I hated about Negans redemption arc was them trying to make him relatable by making him a hardcore gamer.... look guys hes just like us!! so cringe.
@@blackrose8418 I think it he means that trying to make Negan "cool with the kids" by making him a gamer is cringe. Like how some adults try to show themselves to be "cool with the kids."
@crusader2112 that's fine and dandy but I think when it showed us that he was gaming it the show telling us that back then he was a jobless loser. Getting fired, not finding a job, gaming and cheating. So I don't see how it was trying to make him cool at that point
@@blackrose8418 I'm just explaining what wruxiz6104 was saying. As for me, I have no opinion on the Negan flashbacks. I think it was as well as it could be.
@@blackrose8418 that other person got my point half right. Im not saying they were trying to make him cool with the kids, its like. Ok so a lot of people like Negan the same way they like a character like say Killua from HxH the kind of edgy cool anti-hero and the show making him this hardcore gamer in the flashbacks know exactly who they were trying to appeal to. They wanted those people who wanna be the edgy anti-hero to be able to relate or put themselves in his shoes even more and I think that pandering is extremely cringe and artificial. I think they could have done just well by making him a bit of a jobless loser or something who leeches off and is ungrateful towards his wife and then have him come around and be redeemed thats fine.
No i dont think he's redeemable, but i love Negan as a villain. KNOCK KNOCK! I SAID, KNOCK KNOCK? WHO'S THERE? BUTTER! BUTTER WHO? WELL, YOU BUTTER GET OUT YOUR UMBRELLAS CAUSE ITS ABOUT TO GODDAMN RAIN 🩸
Redemption is subjective, and former villains often face the lasting shadow of their past actions. People will always remember their previous cruelties, and it’s understandable why they do so. A history of wrongdoing leaves a deep impression, one that’s not easily erased. This makes it difficult for society to fully accept any transformation, no matter how genuine it may seem. While I personally believe Negan has redeemed himself, I respect those who remain skeptical. Their caution is warranted given the gravity of his past misdeeds, and it really showcases how challenging the path to redemption can be.
Thanks for the donation! Gold tier comment as well.
Negan is very interesting how he was dealt with in the show vs the comics.
In the show: He is complicated but he’s trying to atone for his past sins against the communities.
In the comics: Negan also assists against the Whisperers but is eventually exiled and Maggie finds him but chooses to let him live with his guilt. We never see Negan again until the final issue where we see the shadow of a man kneeling of a makeshift grave. Unable to redeem himself in the eyes of those he wronged and trying to find some semblance of peace in the new world.
Personally, I think both are fine for their respective mediums.
Savior Negan was better in comics, post Savior negan was better in the show. Both are the best character though.
@@blackrose8418 Yeah. Comic Negan as the villain was the best. JDM was funny, but honestly I felt like I could have a drink with him still. In the comic, the man was brutal.
The is a another comic book issue called "Negan Lives"
Savior Negan was fun to watch, but definitely a bad person. Redeemed Negan is just a literal Chad.
Savior Negan was great. Only reason I care about Negan now is because I started to care when he was a savior.
What’s a Chad? Serious question. Not even tryna be funny
@@1dorgodsportsandmusica Chad could be colloquially understood as a man who portrays the epitome of masculinity and or can also be a understood as someone who stands his ground when he knows he’s correct rather than giving into what the crowd says to do. For example for most of the waking dead Rick grimes behaves like a Chad in that he tried his best to do the right thing even against insurmountable odds and decent from his fellow survivors.
@@1dorgodsportsandmusic
Slang for stereotypical alpha male. My brother in Christ, just google stuff.
So he's a man that rises to the occasion is that what a Chad means nowadays just say he's a f****** man
We are all Negan.
He walks up to you and tries to hit you with a rock but you duck
We're still Negan
"Those in charge of the show" need him to be redeemed because it allowed them to drag on the show and milk the show out. So yeah Negan is redeemed.
After the death of Carl and the known exit of Andrew Lincoln and with him the departure of Rick Grimes they had no choice but to try to redeem Neegan. They had only three characters that the audience knew anything about and cared for and those were Maggie, Daryl, and Carol. All of these three were strong side characters but not able to carry the show. They needed to build up other good characters for the audience to love but every single time the audience got to love a character they killed them off!
So now they were stuck with Neegan! Everyone despises him (because he was played so extraordinarily well by his actor.) Maggie and her son being a constant reminder of how he destroyed Glen in such a terrible way. Then there’s all the terrible things he’d done including debasing Daryl and even harming his own previous followers! He was always going to be a hard sell and extremely unpopular character that the audience wasn’t going to be willing to give a chance to! That’s why the show pretty much died when Carl did!
Maggie: *gives a logical explanation to why she won't forgive Negan*
Negan: "wE dOn'T hUrT KiDs!"
Also Negan: *tries to k*ll Carl* 🤔
Negan: "wE diDnT k*ll pEoPLe wHo DidN't dEsErVe iT!"
Also Negan: *literally k*lls Olivia and his only doctor* 🤔
Fans: "i HaTe MaGGie sHe'S sUcH a HyPoCriTe 🥴"
He didn't kill Olivia "Not the one I would have chose"
He ordered one of the saviors to kill somebody. The "not the one i would've chosen" was him mocking her death.
@@djkin5501Okay but he ordered Arat to murder someone. If it wasn't Olivia it woulda been a stronger member of the group, which was what Negan was implying. Which woulda been way worse. Negan either goes for the strongest ones in order to show the group that their strongest is dead/broken, or he goes for innocents, whose deaths will break the others as he displays repeatedly as his main tactic.
@Shannon-vv6rr no exceptions. It's Rosita fault. She was in the lineup, she knows the consequences of trying to kill Negan...
@Shannon-vv6rr I agree with that, but that's common sense. They wasn't his allies...
No. He's well beyond redemption and no one is more aware of that than he is.
Even understanding he is irredeemable, he has a unique perspective about how peoples actions changed during the apocalypse and how even knowing what he did, he has capacity to change his feelings and actions for the better
Negan is not beyond redemption, you say no as if your say so means it’s the truth, it isn’t, the governor is worse than negan, the claimers and cannibals were beyond redemption, not negan.
@@Lauriestrode1978 Yeah? He bringing all his straight up murder victims back to life? Or maybe inventing a time machine? Negan was on even footing with everyone else you mentioned, an unrepentant murderer driven by greed, power, and desperate insanity. Utterly beyond redemption, and in my point of view he's worse than the governor, the governor was a cowardly idiot that happened to have the right muscle. Negan was smart enough to know the right way, courageous enough to do things the right way, and still didn't. He chose to be an idiot coward, at least the governor was born that way.
@@Lauriestrode1978Serial rapist check, force submission check, mass murderer check, terrible leadership and system check, and looting and stealing without any incentive for the community to give it up check. Yea no he is beyond redemption but what’s fascinating is that he is willing to atone for it even if it’s known he’s irredeemable
@@enriqueperezarce5485The thing is, redemption and evil-doing are subjective in the context of the world literally ending and societal breakdown. There isn't really a single character on the show by the end of TWD that couldn't be argued is subjectively "beyond redemption," at least in Negan's case he can argue he truly thought he was helping / saving people with his actions. He probably IS beyond redemption, but I don't think it's clear or obvious at all
My problem is that Negan wasn't the TYPE of character who would have sought redemption. It wasn't his ACTIONS that made him so evil, it was his SADISM, his outright joy in inflicting pain and terror that made him evil. And that sadism was waved away when the show creators decided they wanted Negan as a main character. He talked about his past deeds as if they were utilitarian and misguided but never once talked about how he enjoyed them. When he talked to Maggie never once was the CONTEXT of Glen's murder addressed, the glee and mockery he took in it and in tormenting the others. While I did like the character Negan and some of the stories that came out of his redemption arc, I found it unbelievable.
I agree completely - it’s not just that he killed Glenn, it’s HOW he did it and how he clearly felt while doing it. He can say it was all a show to maintain power and therefore order, but I don’t buy it.
@@rainbow_doglover8301 It's okay to be wrong
@@rainbow_doglover8301but what most of you are forgetting is that there was a considerable time difference between negan then and the negan who talked about how he regretted killing Glenn etc… he was in prison for 7.5 years. Yes he did some sadistical things, and sadism can be a greyscale, but what about the trash people? They fulfilled their usefulness, and they never would have assisted in the war with how high the stakes were. Why would negan entrust Simon to bend their will when he could have very well re-enacted the same scene of Glenn’s murder? I think he did some evil things but he wasn’t evil. And to be quite frank I’m not even sure Maggie can entirely remember word for word what happened or was acted. It was so traumatic I’m sure she relives the moment but can forget nuances. Negan wouldn’t be the one to bring that up, it would only hurt his case.
I agree I’ve told my cousin who is a avid watcher of the series and verse, that Negan is unrealistic because he was a sadist he reveled in the killing and destruction, and for him not to admit it at least damages his redemption a bit for me not entirely but a thorn in the side
@@enriqueperezarce5485 sadism isn’t permanent. Nature vs nurture. Negan, Hitler, dahmer, gacey were all nurtured and coerced through a formula of factors into becoming individuals who did evil things. It wasn’t nature. Therefore redemption is possible. If you aren’t born a psychopath psychologically then redemption is possible given you aren’t killed. Just because most sadistical people in the walking dead probably wouldn’t have sought or even successfully attained redemption, doesn’t mean Negan is automatically thrown into that mix. He’s an outlier.
Negan will be forever haunted by his past, meaning that no matter what he can never live a truly fulfilling life anymore. Negan can never be redeemed, but he isnt the same person anymore either. It's complicated. In my eyes he deserves a chance at life again, but everyone feels differently.
Jeffrey Dean Morgan did a very good job portraying the character.
Yes, he was willing to die at the hands of Herschel. With no resistance whatsoever. And he explained to Maggie. He understands now. After he went through something similar so. He will probably act as an undercover agent. And Maggie will explain that to Rick, in time I hope.
Redemption is a journey....some acts take longer than others...some act take a lifetime. Negan is in a redemption arc...and Maggie is the polar opposite by denying that she too has blood on her hands as well as in large part....the cause of her own losses.
th-cam.com/video/V3Ctq9aGMOw/w-d-xo.html I have few videos discussing this
Abby from tlou2 was she redeemed and was her revenge justified?
@@Natan_Korkot Who? From what?
Exactly! Nobody in this series is clean! They all killed someone who was just trying to get by just like them.
@@silentj624 Plus Maggie to make the deal to kill Negan for food and supplies...the deal that led to Glenn killing Negan's men in their sleep...that led to Negan's retaliation...that led to Abe's death as well as Glenn's. TBF Negan would have found them eventually after Jesus introduced them to Greg
Negan is redeemed, specially after having a wife and a child... but, he's still a huge hypocrite who acts like he and Rick were the same, like their groups did the same things to survive, when it was the complete opposite.
That's true, Rick's group did worse
@@micahbell5572 No, they didn't.
@@dwnkaomwn3953 Rick's group killed over 100 of Negan's people in their sleep, the saviours killed much less people in Rick's group while they were awake.
Not worse, but what they did, they did to survive, not for fun.
Rick never forced women to marry him otherwise he'd kill their husbands, Rick never burned people's faces with an iron to make them "learn", Rick never made anyone kneel for him, Rick never mocked anyone while killing them, Rick never tortured people for fun, Rick never enslaved sick people, Rick never "punished" people because they were stealing medicine, etc...
The whole idea of Rick being better than Negan is not simply what the writers "wants us to believe" , it's a fact. They actually want fans to believe Negan is somehow equivalent to Rick, he isn't, and will never be!
@@micahbell5572 Rick and company did what needed doing to keep their community and people fed/safe. Negan would've done the same to them if the situation was in reverse. Plus, Captain Gold mentioned in one of his other videos that what Rick and company did wasn't necessarily wrong anyway. Minus the workers, the Saviors weren't good people.
Like if you love Negan after Season 8👇
Negan was a strong leader. His leadership style was necessary for the type of people he was leading: mostly cutthroats. Problem is that he lost sight of himself
His leadership style wasn’t going to work long term, sure maybe with those cutthroats, but the people he subjected nah never. It was doomed to fail eventually once he showed weakness
He got a second chance that he absolutely, definitely did not deserve, but you can’t deny that he is a changed man. Still not perfect, still not deserving of the life he has, but he is definitely nowhere near as bad as he used to be and usually tries to do good things to make up for what he’s done. The only way he can make a real dent in repaying what he has done is if he spends the rest of his life in 100% servitude and doing good things for others.
Honestly a better ending for Negan would have been Maggie having him at gunpoint but then deciding to spare him only for a gunshot to ring out and for Negan’s eyes to go wide before he drops dead with the camera slowly revealing little Hershel holding the smoking gun
imo they wouldve needed to adress how negan had multiple "wives",but thats just a fancier way of saying sex slaves,and the show never adressed this either,so,until they do,negan will never be redeemed for me,they simply tweaked his personality a bit and thats it,as the good deeds dont begin to atone for the shit hes done
Getting rid of Negan is like Joffrey firing Barriston Selmy in GOT TV show.
He’s a monster, but if you can leash him. He’d be the biggest deterrent of rebellions/raiders.
Like a scarecrow in the cornfields.
He MIGHT be a "good" guy now buuutttt this was a guy who RULED by putting hot irons against people's faces then taking their wives as his own. Sure nooooow he's different but WHAT IF Rick Grimes hadn't come along and MADE HIM change his ways? What would STILL be going on?, would he have "changed" at all?
Yes he is redeemed he is a change man an im happy for him he found someone that love him he told the king an meggie how sorry he was he on the good side now
These Negan uploads man- I’m absolutely HERE for it 😭❤ Dead City did not give him the credit for change that he deserved.
Rest In Peace 7 🙏😭 he was a Good Dog!
THEY HAVE ALL KILLED AND DONE SOME SERIOUS SHIT BUT ONLY NEGAN HAS TRIED TO REDEEM, NEGAN saved blind Aaron, saved Judith & dog in the blizzard, saved Lydia from the lynching, saved Daryl from the whisperers, Killed Alpha & helped take down Beta, helped Aldan from the Reapers, Saved Hershel Jr. (multiple times)
Negan can only face real Redemption once he has given his life for the greater good.
When he was apologizing to Maggie is when he was redeem. That felt like a heartfelt message and Maggie talked to him about how she can’t forgive him but she is trying. He sacrificed a lot to protect his wife, Maggie, and Hershel. He might deserve death, however I still see him as redeemed
I disagree, he is irredeemable, but his atonement journey is very good imo. He can never be redeemed he has done too many heinous acts selfishly and for himself.
Killing negan right before completing his redemption arc would have been the best way to end his story. Some things are unforgivable and don’t deserve redemption.
not very kelpy g of you
The only thing that set negan apart for me from any other villian in the series is how he treated his wives. That's it
@@Lycoris_Radiata1022 wrong account my b lol
I agree with this even though Negan is my favorite character. However, I think the writers felt the need to keep Negan alive for the reasons that he said in the video
100% agree. Only reason I attempted to finish twd was to see if they'd deliver justice against Negan. Once I saw that not only were they not gonna do that, but they were making Maggie and him work together, I was like nope. This is some kind of perverted fantasy where a man kills the pretty girl's husband and takes her for his own and I won't have my nuts clipped by watching it. I held out a long time. I think I was in the final few episodes. Not worth it. There is a clear path toward justice in this case, and the show instead is putting Maggie through some humiliation ritual and even giving them their own show. They have no respect for the gravity of what they did when they killed Glenn.
7:40 Tbf, if she was there all alone, how else would she get out of the situation? Not implying negan thought like that in the moment, or some chit like "he helped her see her true strength" etc, but he didnt even try and end her on the spot like he could have.
And yeah, ofc hes redeemed himself.
I would never say Negan is redeemed. First of all, all his actions are irredeemable. Rape, exploitation, enslavement, torture, murder, these are not acts that set one up for redemption. Not to mention his petty evil actions, like taking all the mattresses from Alexandria just to burn them and everything he does to specifically break Rick. The only reason he didn't have the Saviors steal Alexandria's food is that the community was already at starvation rations and he didn't want the people he was now enslaving to go into a famine because they wouldn't have the energy to serve him.
There's also Negan's motivation behind his changed behavior. It wasn't out of a true realization of how horrible he was and his desire to change. He, like a lot of people in the real world, just wanted to stop being public enemy number one and having his past atrocities continually held against him. Judith even points this out to him.
Sure he could have killed The Family, Ezekiel, Enid, and everybody, but then he'd be alone and have to rebuild. We saw how he couldn't handle being alone.
Also, it took him being on his knees about to witness Annie and her son be killed to understand what he put Maggie, Rick, et. al through with the lineup and him about to murder Carl if it weren't for a very well-timed tiger attack. I would say a redeemed person wouldn't need to actively live through the same terror to have this epiphany.
Seeing Negan & Ezekiel interact was always interesting
I don't know. I often get to the point where I think the other characters should cut him some slack, but when I rewatched Season 7, my feelings went back to thinking he is unforgivable.
HOWEVER, I don't think he should have been constantly humiliated and punished for the sake of cruelty. Solitary confinement is recognized as torture, fwiw.
I understand that vengeance is practically a universal human trait, but if he had already served his actual punishment, it's just cruel to constantly mock him and exclude him from anything within his eyesight and earshot. I'm thinking of Dead City in particular, with all of the petty things Maggie did to exclude him *while* enlisting his help, because he "owes" her an eternal debt for killing Glenn in such a horrific way.
While I understand her perspective and actions, I can also understand and empathize with the fact that nobody likes to feel that they're eternally "on call" for any favor that someone asks of them, and that they have to always say yes because of "what they did".
From Negan's perspective, he served his punishment. Rock made the decision to spare his life and imprison him instead, much to some people's chagrin, Maggie being the main one.
However, just like in our real societies, criminals who have served their punishments are still reviled and mistreated by society after they reenter the world. Most people consider it fine to be cruel to these people and see it as an unofficial continuation of their punishment.
They may be physically "free", but that's not going to stop other people from being judgmental and acting accordingly.
I think one of the reason people tend to label Maggie as some kind of hypocrite is because, while her want for revenge is completely understandable and justified, it seems as though she would sacrifice others of her group or innocent bystanders to get her revenge; while Negan acted brutally and egotistically while thinking he was acting in the interest of his people, Maggie could very easily turn into Negan in her quest for revenge, at which point she would not necessarily be better than the one she rightfully accuses of having caused her the most intense harm imaginable.
If Maggie is consumed by revenge - which could easily happen and would be more than understandable, which doesn't make it right -, she could run the risk of becoming the very thing that caused her to want revenge in the first place. And I think, to some extent, Negan is actually aware of that: he is completely honest in regards to admitting that he'd do it all over again, meaning that his intentions seem to be honest, but also because he now understands what loosing someone you love can turn you into - he may be afraid that he created an involuntary student of the Saviour life, which he himself had created only after loosing what he loved the most: Lucille. Maggie could turn into that as well, and for the same reasons. Which is why Negan tries to explain himself at times, and sometimes seem to consider killing Maggie or leaving her to her fate, kind of like a mercy killing which he might have wanted after Lucille's death - and to prevent a repetition of history that, if it were to occur, may cause more harm than Negan the Saviour ever did.
Negan's redemption does not necessarily lie in atoning for his sins: he always wants to act in the best interest of others, not himself. But he must learn to properly differentiate between what he wants and may disguise as some kind of benevolent altruism, and what others truly need from him. That, I think, explains some of the ambiguitiy he harbors towards Maggie and others. Only when he is able to realize what others need from him and what he is capable to give, without ever falling into the trap of confusing necessity with selfish desire, would he be truly redeemed. His tragedy lies in that misconception: his redemption is contained therein also.
Cap is the GOAT 🐐 best Walking Dead content on TH-cam. 💯
He's redeeming himself, sure. But I still say Rick should have killed him or let Maggie kill him for what he did to Abraham and Glenn. The only reason I would not kill him would be in consideration of why he did it. They killed a lot of his people. Still...I'd have sided with Maggie moat likely.
I think he's redeemed himself on the killing. Its a hard world in The Walking Dead and he needed to be harder to bring some semblance of order. He had to use an incredibly heavy and sadistic hand when dealing with Alexandria because they'd already proven just how dangerous they can be to him. And they were literally at war in season 8. The thing I find much harder to redeem (and that they haven't really attempted to redeem him on, likely because they can't come up with a good way to do it; I can't either tbh) is the sexual coercion of his "wives" in the Sanctuary. Yeah they willingly "chose" this as their job in his new order but they CLEARLY didn't want to be with him and he used the authority he commanded to force them into giving themselves to him.
BABE WAKE UP CAPTAIN GOLD MADE AN UPLOAD!
I really enjoy these videos and they definitely deserve more views.
Honestly I always resented Negan more for every good thing he did 😅 He’s redeemed, but sheesh I’m sickened whenever I’m grateful to him.
This hits the worst in dead city. Seeing him be s7 negan, but watching him do it to terrify our enemies left me so uneasy. I was so grateful for him, and it made me sick.
Ngl Comic Negan and Show Negan are two very different characters I feel. Show Negan, to me, wants redemption. He wants to be able to care for his family and do better by them, For Carl and Lucille.
Comic Negan I feel doesn’t try to seek redemption. He’s more jsut looking for a way out and Rick was looking for “plausible deniability” or simple fighting monsters with monsters. After this Event, Negan proceeded to screw off in his Cabin, presumably till he dies.
I believe in forgiveness and that if a person truly wants to and takes steps towards change then eventually they can.Some people don't which i think is pretty egotistical and self righteous because we're all potential villains in somebody else's story but all the while we all think we're the good guy. Forgive but don't forget.
fuck no hes not! lmao thats like asking if alpha and the governor are reedamble. its stupid to make him on the same side with maggy.
My personal take on this is quite simple:
Redemption ≠ forgiveness.
IMO, all you should really strive to do for redemption is 2 check markers.
A) you beed to be a changed person. You have to be different, and no longer commiting negative acts.
B) you need to have helped people, and done more good, protecting and saving more than you’ve hurt and killed.
I believe negan has done both of these, and as a result has more than earned his redemption. HOWEVER, again, redemption does not mean he will be forgiven.
I think that is where a lot of viewers go wrong. Because many viewers, like maggie, refuse to forgive negan (rightfully so), so they do not believe he can atone. But he has atoned.
This I can agree with, it’s either he can’t be redeemed or he can but never forgiven.
Amazing analysis. I would love to see you talk about Bob. I think he is a deep and underrated character.
On paper, Negan is a redeemable character, but realistically he is irredeemable. What he has done in his past is absolutely unforgivable, so I firmly believe he should’ve been left behind or left for dead. Not that he should’ve died just they should’ve let him go. Yes, he’s been in prison for years & after the imprisonment, he should’ve been let go into the wild like an animal. Take it from someone who literally SIMPS over Negan, my guys.
Agreed I love Negan cause I would act like him in the apocalypse, always joking around and be sarcastic most of the time, basically Carlos or Luis from Resident Evil. Though never act sadistic like him
I will put this simply as I can, Negan saw the error of his ways when he was down on his knees about to lose everything, just like he said, I believe he got himself together and he is his own person.. but when it comes to who was worse, logically was the Saviours
Our group always did everything to keep each other safe as possibly as they could, they grew into the world but they didn't torture people out of fun or enslave them etc. Negan actually believed his ways were good, but they were just enslaving other communities for their benefit, killing someone for stupid reasons, besides workes, almost everyone was a psycho who enjoyed violence, They came to Hilltop, they killed 16 year old boy infront of them to watch, they made photos out of Lucille victims, Rick needed to make the trade work + his people were attacked already before so it was a threat, they just didn't have much information about their numbers, so they did it as safe as possible, during night, I do believe the group was in right to eliminate those dangerous people, Negan only had the upper hand with numbers, Rick isn't supposed to be perfect and save everybody but underneath those things he and the group had to do to survive, he is a good man with moral compass unlike Negan and his group
Negan is a bad man. But he is not an evil man.
No he is definitely WAS a evil man, objectively and morally he is, Rick was a man who did bad things but was never evil cause he was grounded and did it for the group not himself only. Negan was surrounded by savages basically.
Negan is the biggest reason why I came back to finish watching the show after Rick left
Just saying in the zombie apocalypse, a month is a year, with how deadly the world is, against humans and walkers it just is that fact as its absolute hell. So the fact he was in jail for 7 and a half YEARS. He had security, food, warm place to sleep. Bro.... his time was made
8:48 I mean to be fair in that example he is kind of right
I totally agree with you and all your reasoning. However it sure would have felt so good to see Rick off him instead of saving him at that time.
Honestly I consider pretty much everyone in the walking dead horrible people with some of them being nicer than others. Everyone’s more focused on killing each other than the walkers themselves
I’m in a rather interesting position in a discussion like this. I never really watched the early seasons of the walking dead. By now I’m familiar with a lot of the events of the early seasons but I really never saw the show until I watched it one night at a friends house and it was the season 7 premiere. I only bring that up to highlight I never had some attachment to Glenn or Abraham. That said it was certainly brutal what Negan did there but makes some sense in the larger context. I myself do think he has been redeemed for the most part but I do understand why Maggie can’t get past it. It would be pretty great if she could though because as Negan points out in Dead City they do make a hell of a team. I’m not saying they should become a romantic pairing or anything as I’ve seen a few people suggest in the past but if they establish some level of friendship that would be really cool I think
I think Negan didn't kill ginny's dad. I think he only said it to make sure she was safe away from new york
Great video thanks again
In an interview about Bojack Horseman, they discuss how media is more focused on the redemption of abusers rather than the healing of Victims. So I ask is redeeming Negan good for Maggie and company?
He seems to have gone legit and JDM has a magnetic energy in the role of Negan though I have to say I feel reforming an antagonist would have been better suited for Shane as he had a decent amount of history with the majority of the main group during his stay on the show and had been in good standing with them for a time as the groups de facto leader. It seems as though they played around with the idea in the conclusion of 18 miles out but ultimately went the route of killing him off to complete Ricks arc of the season and likely due to Jon Bernthal opting to be written out with the departure of Frank Darabont from the series.
I don't think Negan was ever fully redeemed, he got a partial redemption and I think that works fine for his character. I would have liked to see him sit down with everyone he affected though, not just Maggie. Everyone's hatred is justified but it would be nice to see him apologize to Ezekiel and Aaron.
As a side note I would have preferred someone like Aaron let Negan out of the cage initially to stop Alpha, since it would have been more personal with that action than Carol, who yeah, lost Glenn and Abraham but it just felt random to have her be the one do do it imo.
I mean in my opinion Neagan wasn’t completely unjustified for what he did to ricks group.
Nah not really, we all know the saviors were the aggressors, and we’re the ones who are more objectively terrible, I’m not saying Rick’s group wasn’t innocent (literally killed a lot of innocent workers within the Saviors) but we’re way better
Super underrated channel. Subbed.
He did not at all deserve a second chance, but damn has he made good on it!
keep doing what ya doing dog, just found your videos and the quality is good, love it
I think hes in the process of being redeemed for his actions but it always takes a multitude of good to overcast a little bad, Negan has done so much bad he'd probably die trying to be redeemed by human standards.
I don't agree that Daryl and Carol weren't enough to carry the show. The way they WROTE those characters from S6 - S11 weren't enough, but that's on the writers not the actors or the characters.
Was thinking, did those 3 guys that rick and Shane shot in the beginning come back?
His antisocial personality disorder is what makes him such a @#$%&. But every bad blood individual eventually sees the light. In Negans case he gets to experience pure solitude later on simply og his weak ways. That's a Boomers take.
I started disliking Maggie in the same episode Rick had to sacrifice himself largely thanks to Maggie only caring about her revenge.
Negan deserved to die, still does
Sorry but saying he would have killed the group back then proves he still is a sociopath. He should know the saviors deserved death and accept it.
Love compassion and forgiveness my friend....i forgive him....but ill never forget what he did. In a world like that, I understand why he was the way he was, but i dont necessarily agree with it. You beat the brains out of bad people. My boy Glenn didn't deserve what he got. That episode still gets me to this day 😕
I think the only thing this video doesn't account for is the fact that sometimes redemption just isn't a possibility, but if we're saying it's always possible then I'd agree with this take for the most part
Yeah he definitely has been redeemed IMO. SHOULD he be redeemed?? Nope! His rules and army of saviors were never going to work. Hell, the CLAIMERS had a more simple system IMO!!
Not mentioning that Negan had sex slaves is crazy.
Did that in my deconstruction of his Savior Arc.
it's very relevant to this video though.
@@NeonKittyDream
Depending on your interpretation of redemption. In the video I gave a clear interpretation of it -> being the act of a person changing for the better. Which Negan has.
If your interpretation is more in line with the repaying of a moral debt, then it would certainly be more relevant. That’s not my interpretation. That said, I spent some time denouncing Negan’s sexual coercion in my initial Negan video. I even prefaced the video by stating I covered Negan’s Savior days in a previous video. So it’s kinda crazy not to pay attention to the first few sentences lol I have covered the very thing you said I haven’t.
@TheRealCaptainGold lol yeah I saw the vid. You mentioned his other wrongs in this one though. So clearly, you thought those were relevant. I'm saying that the sexual assault was also relevant.
@@NeonKittyDream
I just didn’t want to be redundant. If I mentioned all his wrongs, the video would be longer than the first lol I think they’re all relevant.
Yes he is he feels sorry for his actions and been there for all of Ricks people especially Maggie
Sick video guy, almost made me not wanna off myself 😂😂
Negan is a long way the very best character of TWD. Also, I don't think he's evil, he did what he had to. History is full of Negans.
Negan is a complex character. In this cruel world, there was probably no room for not being a dictator. I don't know.
I mean Rick also became an absolute ruler as well, but he did have Carl and Lori that kept him grounded and Herschel to give him advice.
@@AmericanImperium1776the ricktatorship was barely a dictatorship, rick stepped up, he kept them alive throughout the entire winter with a pregnant wife, the situation was extreme and he never abused anyone, negan was more than just a dictator, he was a manipulative murdering psychopath.
@@andrewflores5666 That's what I meant. He took charge but he still was grounded by his family and those he protects.
I feel like the story would've been better if they spread the timeline of season 7 over a month long frame. The whole season got squished into less than a week.
Ima say no. The choices we make aren’t redeemable we can’t take back what we’ve done and the loss he’s inflicted on many others not just Maggie and the main group proves that
Agreed. People were already dealing with an apocalypse and trying to survive and he decided to make a terrible world even worse.
@@NectarousDAgreed, I would understand if he was authoritarian and brutal to others outside his group but caring but tough within his. But he wasn’t
the entire point of blame is to predict someone's future consequences in order to protect yourself. if someone is redeemed it means that you trust them to not do what they used to do, unredeemed means you don't. so yeah a choice cant be "redeemable" because that concept doesn't make any sense, we dont redeem choices we redeem people
If Negan was the main character he’d be like thorfinn or askeladd more so if yall know them
Thorfinn is objectively better person and can actually be redeemed given he was forced into the Viking life as a literal kid bruh. Askeladd can’t be redeemed as he was a leader of the marauders and destroyed countless villages and stuff.
@@enriqueperezarce5485 true that
I stopped watching The Walking Dead at some point in the middle of season 7 but I've since gone back to revisit the show. Picking things up where I left off, I'm halfway into season 9. While I like Negan as an antagonist, I personally feel he is irredeemable. Now that I know that's the direction they went with him, I'm not sure how I'm going to react to that development as I really wanted to see him get what was coming to him.
Correct again. I am 2nd! Maybe even 1st.
Please do an essay on Merle Dixon.
Yes, we need a Merle analysis. 👍
My hot take: I find Merle much more interesting than Daryl.
@@AmericanImperium1776 Merle and Shane on the show were two shortest lived characters that made such impacts. Very significant and interesting.
No not really, honestly they should have took the comic book route & exiled him or just kill him off, now they're just milking it.
Well in my opinion
As much as I hated savior Negan, his character saved the show and has been just plain awesome for TV! Even if Glenn (my favorite all time character) did die at his hands, his character is just so well written.
The Governor, Negan, Gareth, and Alpha were evil to Rick and the group but everything they did was mainly for the survival of their groups in that universe. Everyone outside your group is probably an enemy in that world.
LMAO the governor and alpha? The governor literally killed his own group, and alpha repeatedly killed whisperers or told beta to kill whisperers. Neither has a right to claim anything was for the survival of their groups.
To be fair, Negan also killed his own people
@rainbow_doglover8301 the only saviours I remember negan killing are David who tried to grape sasha, the doctor who he thought let daryl escape and Simon whom literally betrayed him. Point is he had good reasons for killing all of them, but the governor killed all his people because they retreated from an unwinnable battle and alpha killed people because they disagreed with her and on one occasion she killed someone because he saw her cry.
Funny thing is I was trying to look for something Negan could hold to redeem himself even after all the murders he did but when he showed Carl his place and having a lot of wives just for his pleasure I lost the hope he could redeem himself for me, to the point where I would just fast forward all his scene so that I don't have to put up with his BS. I'm almost done with season 7 and its hard just to see the saviors bully people most of the episode. I hope they really make Negan redeemable because to me theres some shit I dont think he could just regret or look over. I don't even care that he killed my favorite characters, I really don't care I just want to watch a good show but the way theyre dragging Negans story I just can't.
I thought it was pretty silly Maggie never killed him at any point after Glen’s death. Didn’t make sense for Maggie to put up with it. It’s unforgivable what he did, she should’ve executed him and she would be forgiven given what happened to Glen.
His redemption is depicted as genuine, but if this wasn’t the amazing Jeffrey Dean Morgan he would need to be killed off. I couldn’t forgive his character so it made little sense how everyone was putting up with him. He’s killed and messed with countless lives.
No. Next question.
I agree that he is a redeemed character! That was never even my issue... I just find it difficult to believe that a guy like Negan would redeem himself for any other reason than selfishness and strongly disagree with the choice of the show writers to let him live and even escape the punishment of a lifetime in prison!
Plus I truly believe that even redeemed Negan is a wildcard and could fall back into old patterns because he still believes what he believed when he was the leader of the Saviors and always enjoys violence and power!
Can a person in that type of world survive without a tongue?
This was the worst change from the comics. Negan with a big mad dog with a big stick and his job was to take out Beta and die in the process, crippling the worst of the humans. Instead the third worst monster of the apocalypse got a redemption because the he was the writers' favourite character or something.
I know the comics retconned his survival somehow too, which is just as bogus.
I always loved Negan and still will 😊
You ommited his rape of a dozen or so women. Including this fact would paint of different picture of the man he is and was as rape is irredeemable.
the ONLY thing I hated about Negans redemption arc was them trying to make him relatable by making him a hardcore gamer.... look guys hes just like us!! so cringe.
Whats wrong with him turning out to being a Gamer? And how is it cringe?
@@blackrose8418 I think it he means that trying to make Negan "cool with the kids" by making him a gamer is cringe. Like how some adults try to show themselves to be "cool with the kids."
@crusader2112 that's fine and dandy but I think when it showed us that he was gaming it the show telling us that back then he was a jobless loser. Getting fired, not finding a job, gaming and cheating. So I don't see how it was trying to make him cool at that point
@@blackrose8418 I'm just explaining what wruxiz6104 was saying. As for me, I have no opinion on the Negan flashbacks. I think it was as well as it could be.
@@blackrose8418 that other person got my point half right. Im not saying they were trying to make him cool with the kids, its like. Ok so a lot of people like Negan the same way they like a character like say Killua from HxH the kind of edgy cool anti-hero and the show making him this hardcore gamer in the flashbacks know exactly who they were trying to appeal to. They wanted those people who wanna be the edgy anti-hero to be able to relate or put themselves in his shoes even more and I think that pandering is extremely cringe and artificial. I think they could have done just well by making him a bit of a jobless loser or something who leeches off and is ungrateful towards his wife and then have him come around and be redeemed thats fine.
Bro he had a slave harem
Man f all that glen had to die he was forced to do it as a leader u have to make hard choices Rick n them killed ppl in their sleep
To me negan will always be the guy that killed 2 of my favorites i cant get past that
No i dont think he's redeemable, but i love Negan as a villain. KNOCK KNOCK! I SAID, KNOCK KNOCK? WHO'S THERE? BUTTER! BUTTER WHO? WELL, YOU BUTTER GET OUT YOUR UMBRELLAS CAUSE ITS ABOUT TO GODDAMN RAIN 🩸
Correction Shane’s daughter 😂
Did they really turn him evil again in the Maggie show????
No. He’s sorta a slave now - forced to lead a group in NYC.
I liked Negan from the start