lol, one character with "invincibility" or super durability or whatever you want to call it had to deliberately explain that they turned off their invincibility because the force that someone was using would cause them to shatter their own arm. I do not remember who though, sadly.
@markmessi9020 Ehhh. It's definitely a fun watch. Then again it's a show that originally aired when most of us were kids, so nostalgia is definitely a factor.
@markmessi9020 If you like sci-fi and adventure shows, then sure, you would definitely love it. Though it has 4 shows of it, you can watch the first show and a bit of the second and see if you like it
Omniman and Homelander really just suffer from the "Superman-Flash" syndrome: writers want the super OP guy to truly be super OP, so they have them keep up with the speedster of the team, but because they're not meant to be written as speedsters, then anyone can keep up with them. So yeah, both Omniman and Homelander are "faux-speedsters", which is BS
This is also true of Superman, but then again Superman is like a giga dork dumb*ss. I can definitely hear Superman's goofy ahh saying something like "Well if I used my speed it would be unfair to my opponents!"
Viltromites arent faux speedsters their perception and actual speed just changes based on some internal shit. They gotta dial it up. They can travel to distant stars in days and perceive things at that speed but dont have the perception or speed for that normally especially on planets they tune it down so as not to destroy the place.
@@monkeybomb1232 damn, that's crazy they purposely limit themselves. Omniman really wanted to consider the health of the guardians and their headquarter's structural integrity! Really explains why it took so long to defeat them if he was really exerting himself to care about the people he was gonna murder!
@@celty228 Bro he could just fly through the building and wipe them all out instantly the same as that other planet. He didn't want that for whatever reason probably to do with the political situation of taking over the planet.
I have replies off but i want to make argument Omni-Man is very fast. Not as fast as Red Rush of course, but he is still very fast. This would make the fact he grabbed Red Rush's hand more believable.
The video maker then says Omni-Man "slowly puts his hands on the side of his head" There is like four frames of animation where red rush doesn't have omni-man's fingertips embedded into the side of his face and skull.
He makes a very good point about the full-force punch not effecting him as much as his skull getting crushed. maybe he is so fast he is able to manipulate how his body absorbs the impact from the punch so he doesn't get turned into mush. If he is held off the ground there isn't any way for him to get any leverage to displace the force
One of the biggest factors I see people miss about Red Rush as well is he has another obvious thing he could've done and he would've survived: run. Obviously he realizes before everyone else that Omni Man is trying to kill them, and since he can apparently think in super speed as well, he would've immediately realized they might not win this fight and it makes 100x more sense for him to just run away and warn everyone. He could've run to every government and warned them, he could've dipped and come back with a camera, he could've grabbed even one of the other guardians and ran away with them as well. There's no world where he decides he wants to get in a hand to hand fight with a demigod
on the part about getting the other guardians i will say. From what we've seen he seems mildly limited on how many people he can transport at once, so while he's getting some of the guardians out of there, that'd make any of the remaining guardians more vulnerable while they have less backup to fight along side them Even if it only takes 1 minute, or even 30 seconds, thats a decent amount of time for any guardians left to be picked up last to fend for themselves
@MaxMax-tt6db I was thinking that as well after writing this. Still would've made more sense for him to sit back and assess the situation or see if he can figure out what if anything is possessing him instead of fighting him hand to hand. The whole fight is so poorly written though, it is what it is (see batman knock off throwing himself at omni man lmao)
I never realized it was cocaine. I just thought it was caffeine. A google search tells me that it was an energy drink. And watching the clip, the can he drinks from says caffeine. If it was a joke that I missed I'm sorry.
one of my favorite examples of Saitama just being so casual despite living in hyper speed and somehow panicking about every minor detail for comedy. I don't remember if he asked someone else or just commented but it was basically, "did you just see a naked ninja?" when Sonic(the ninja that considers himself Saitama's rival) was fleeing a scene XD
@@wolfbain21 actually, Koro is written pretty inconsistently. He's been surprised by children moving at normal speeds but can sense when a bullet is fired at super sonic velocity from miles away and appear in front of their scope. Then there's koro's backstory... they even touched on it in the story. As just an example, one of his enemies was able to clone him and his powers... the whole thing is a mess, but a mess we all love.
@@wolfbain21 if you want an even further example of the inconsistency... Koro sensei can move at speeds far faster than mach 17 (as was his stated speed). He is able to scatter all of the atoms caused by his super speed in order to protect passengers but ALSO able to stop those atoms from colliding with their neighbors and causing a nuclear explosion... at least if I remember his explanation for how he was able to travel with students on his person.
Saying one punch man is basic is to completely miss the point. It plays with as many tropes as possible because it’s a parody. You don’t have to like it, but to criticize it for that is weird. Personally I absolutely love it
One Punch Man fans don't and have never treated it as satire. They obsess over it to the point where they give Goku meatriders a run for their money. Everything he said is valid. The series being "satire of tropes" doesn't make it good. Just like Game of Thrones Season 8 "subverting our expectations" didn't make it good.
@@Akiraspin It's more like saying Naruto is bad because you don't like ninjas. My point is that being a parody doesn't automatically make it bad either. I like it because I enjoy reading it.
I know I’m late and I don’t want to start an argument but he is right OPM has pretty basic writing and that is obvious. ONE was a very in experienced writer and Mangaka when he started OPM. Obviously he’s gotten better but the story arcs shown in the anime are of the beginning of OPM so yeah. Good premise, basic writing in the beginning.
Oh and to not get confused, I absolutely love OPM, the anime, manga and Webcomic and I am not some random guy that has not even watched/read OPM. But when compared to other works that captivated me and/or other readers/watchers it isn’t the best written story out there..
I absolutely agree... in regards to season 1 chapters. It felt like S2 became everything the series orginially parodied, using common basic anime tropes again, but now, sincerely. I honestly loved the self-aware "basic" writing of S1 and was pretty let down that it lost that down the line. Surprisingly when I see people dislike S2 it's due to the animation changes (which I had no problem with), barely ever mentioning the tone shift; so @@Akiraspin might have a point about OPM fans.
has there every been a speedster that avoids touching people so he doesn't immediately snap their necks? Momentum is a factor that could make for a compelling factor and limitation to these characters but writers don't care because "NUHHH BIG POWER LEVEL THO".
Being a speedster automatically requires the character to have more powers to back up their main power since realistic superspeed would have A LOT of drawbacks, so the ability to control momentum is often one of the abilities speedsters are given
@@SigilOfBaphometThe same can be said of every super-strength character having passively having super durability. It makes every fight super lame flaccid slugfests that end only when it's convenient for the writer.
Thank you for finally getting A-Train right. (though I think you should put him into A tier just because... you know, A-Train) He can run away from Homelander, dodge his attacks, whatever, but he would have to do it... forever. Homelander can get him in his sleep, when he's exhausted, he can take hostages... A-Train is afraid because Homelander is a psychopath, not because of some power level. They also stated in the show that nothing has ever damaged Homelander (before Soldier Boy), so I would expect that includes A-Train.
In regards to invincible, if you’re strong enough to punch a hole through metal or whatever, then you can throw your fist extremely fast. It’s just a question of whether you can think at the same speed. He cannot, but it’s still possible he can catch red Rush this way. It would be like a human catching a fly. Obviously flies react, faster, but you can get lucky enough to slap one.
Personally I think that “it’s like hours to me” was hyperbole but it’s still insane that when Omni man caught his punch he didn’t try to escape. Or punch back. I still agree with you I just think it’s not as bad as you think
When talking about Quicksilver (the one from the xmen movies) its important to consider which movie. Hes much better written in Days of Future Past. He has that good time in a bottle scene, and then basically just dips and doesnt show back up again, because he doesnt care. Thats a very easily and believable flaw to give a speedster is the idgaf factor. He could've singlehandedly dealt with the whole Mystique getting shot fiasco but was too young and selfish to care. They didnt have to nerf his power in any way, they instead just gave him a character flaw that caused him to become a non factor That being said, the issue with Apocalypse is easily fixable too, the writers are just dumb. The scene could've gone the same way where QS is pinballing him but they could have that scene longer where it kicks up a bunch of dust, and we basically see QS hands on his knees sucking wind and as the dust clears we see Apocalypse standing there without a scratch. That wouldve actually made Apocalypse more threatening imo because it establishes that even if other mutants have powers he cant match, it doesnt matter because they still cant hurt him. Durability is an intimidating factor
I honestly prefer the category of "speed and faster reflexes on demand" speedsters. Not because I find them more interesting, but because writers are usually more able to write around this ability compared to regular super speed
That's why when I write my speedsters(my own version of Werewolves), the fast speed comes from adrenaline and increased blood flow instead of it being a superpower. It is a physiological reaction to having high blood pressure. The more panicked, the faster they can move. The more relaxed, the slower. A drunk, calm, or tired werewolf is little more than a human with good hearing/smell/eyesight. But a werewolf in a fight or when hunting is a proper to be feared beast with inhuman speed and agility.
Honestly I wouldn't mind an analysis of David in Cyberpunk. I feel like he was pretty good, with how he's limited a lot by it and most of the time he has it he's either super inexperienced or extremely overwhelmed with emotions and drugs. But you always pick up on stuff I missed so I feel it would be interesting. It probably wouldn't give you enough content for a full video on its own anyway.
😂😂well as a speedster David was written pretty consistently unlike any of these guys he's not actually fast so his reaction time is at a normal person's level and when he does use his dandi he isn't dumb just an inexperienced kid or a junkie
@@tawonat7 No? David is pretty obviously shown to have super heightened reaction times as well, but with the caveat that he has to activate the sandevistan so he isn't permanently in that speed, so we only see him lose to something if he's surprised or is against another Sandevistan user.
one suuper minor thing, in the training scene in batman vs superman, you can see for about 2 seconds the gas canisters have “pb” written on them which is the periodic sumbol for lead. but this detail is glossed over so quickly so it is a bit of an inconsistency
Damn thats 3 times my ass was caught lacking. I probably should've watched batman vs superman but the movie is so god damn boring that I just look at the fight scenes. But it was just a nitpick that doesn't really add or take away much from what I'm saying.
@@RSG200 yes exactly, i think that its on the movie for not making it that obvious in a 3 hour film i dont blame u its so boring, as most people aren’t pausing every frame to catch the detail and have the entire periodic table memorised p.s. i love ur videos
@@RSG200 right about Metroman. rewatched the Megamind movie. probably one of the best consistent speedsters fast enough who can go into slow-mo mode but i noticed one thing... would you agree the scene where they find him, he coulda just noticed them about to turn around in super slow mo and just speeded away before they stop lookin at the ice cubed glass and turned around? considering the scene where he was reading book and diner waitress was frozen while falling, to him, Megamind and Roxanne woulda been standing there backs turned for a whole hour for his POV while he already noticed them. might be the only mistake in the decision making for the sake of him getting found alive for the plot. otherwise there would be NO WAY to find him unless he stood still for hours. they would only find clues from items he left like the ice cubes. but never see him in person or on video unless he speeded by slow mo cameras. only reason i can think that would make him just give up an let them find out was, "well they seen the ice cubes and i dont feel like tearing up all the Music Man memorabilia then running away, hoping they just think its some squatters who broke in to my old home" but why wouldnt he do that? he would have an hour or more to think about it. then theres the reaction he had. why would he react like that when they did turn and see him. all surprised and off guard. that would be like seeing them and staring at their backs for hour or more then being surprised with them as they turned? as soon as he noticed them he woulda just went into speedster mode and everything goes into slow mo like the diner. might be the only mistake in consistency for metroman. thoughts?
The whole, "it's possible to enjoy something and still think it's shit writing" hit hard when he ranked Wally West from JLU in F-tier. He was the heart of that show, and it was a fun show.
I love Invincible but those comments defending Red Rush’s death making sense are so fucking braindead LMAO. This dude is spitting facts. I’ll never understand how people can be so delusional about something just because they like it.
Spoilers for JJBA!!! I don’t know if Made in Heaven from JJBA counts, but he is able to move faster due to the acceleration of time. He is pretty consistent in using his speed while also being careful of his only hard counter, Jotaro’s time stop, making his potential defeat not to farfetched. And when he dies he is killed by something he cant even see, meaning no matter how fast he was, he was going to die.
@@kujojotarostandoceanman2641 Did watch that. It does good work in putting the power Pucci had in perspective along with how the characters must have felt.
"I can stop whenever i want" Though not sure what he could do as a follow up there was the initial video, the follow up video defending his stance, and now a tier list If there is a 4th I'll be surprised
lol maybe but right now I genuinely have no ideas. Each time I've done one of these I focused on expanding on the topics instead of just extending them. So unless I pull something out of my ass, its gonna be a while
@@RSG200do you have any interest in looking at more archetypes for bad written characters deaths? A lot of potential for marvel and Star wars to talk shit lol. Also it would probably be funny to just start braking down a lot of those anime things because people in those communities love to argue and have shit takes😂. Amazing video, really funny, keep uploading and you will hit a million. Like for example demon slayer has some seriously stupid debates.
Theres a lot to say when it comes to OPM. First, there is actually no filler in the series, its pretty faithful. Though if you consider the additions the Manga (which was subsequently adapted to the anime) made to the Webcomic "filler", that's basically the entirety of season 2. Second, there is only one writer. Third, his name isnt "One Punch Man". Its Caped Baldy or Saitama.
13:38 thing about mikari is ikaris also has faster speed not as fast as her but still very fast and consistent. I didn't even understand why do you not consider her consistent.
Absolute W for succinctly covering Invincible's inconsistencies with their speed. Although powerscaling is subjective, Red Rush, Omni-Man, and Mark's feats require a lot of mental gymnastics, such as the scene where Omni-man caught Red Rush's fist. For this reason, debates involving Invincible are the most obnoxious.
I distinctly remember reading the invincible comics and thinking the inconsistent power scalings being my least favorite part. Red Rush is far from the only problem there.
Red rush landing punches on Omni-man is just something they added in the show to make it more dramatic, canonically speaking Omni-man just ended the fight in a second
My impression of the Omni man red rush fight was that Omni man lacked super perception but could move at super speed. That's why he bides his time taking hits, he predicts Rush's attack, he doesn't react to it, and moves at super speed to catch it. This explanation makes sense and also makes Omni man seem like a seasoned warrior overcoming a physical limitation with battle smarts. I have no explanation for him grabbing red Rush's head at that speed though 😅
If he has super movement speed (not flight speed, actual movement speed) then it should have come up in his other fights. Even if omniman can't use speed perceive, he still should have been speed attacking in his other fights.
@@aquashuriken1634 don't they do it all the time? Whenever they use their limbs as cutting objects to decapitate or stab people, only makes sense if those attacks are at super speed, otherwise why aren't viltrumites always punching through each other. And yes this is me fully making excuses but the justification for them not always using it might be that they require proper posturing in order to use their flight leverage to attain those speeds without throwing themselves into a cartwheel from the momentum.
if you could move at super speed but not perceive things at that speed, then fighting at those speeds would leave you blind. Also they do use super speed in fights, whenever they chop someone's head off its not that they are turning their hand sharp, they are accelerating it to speeds where the shear force is enough to cut. Why they don't use it more often could probably be explained by omni mans comments on leverage, they can create their own leverage which would be required because throwing your hand in one direction at near the speed of sound would throw you off balance a little. I assume they use their leverage ability to keep upright, but that it requires some level of concentration to 'ground' yourself against those kinds of forces. the time it takes to prepare yourself to strike at that speed would negate the effectiveness of attacking at that speed, unless you only use it as a finishing move or when you know you have time to prepare that kind of attack mid fight. I really like this explanation because it takes the worldbuilding into account and adds a layer of complexity to viltrumite battle tactics, while also allowing super cool hand\fist stabbing scenes. @@aquashuriken1634
@@taktexpI mean, there's a reason why they changed demon garou into possessed-by-god garou. Murata is bound by ONE's writing. But at the same time, it doesn't seem OPM is his cup of tea. OPM is ultimately a collection of anti-climaxes, let everyone do their thing until Saitama arrives and ends it in one punch, making us feel the same desperation our egghead protagonist feels. All forms of the story encapsulates that and that's why they try to deconstruct the expected story, a "what if we skipped every fight, power up and villain"; what remains is the core of OPM: Mundane life, goals and objectives, meaning of being a hero, etc. Such message and concept won't be properly assimilated by everyone (hell, there's s large chunk of the fandom who only wants Saitama to punch things indefinitely without reason), and perhaps that's why it's not high in the fav list.
@@JohanPijnSaitama IS the filler, by his nature of being The One Punch Man we get nothing in the middle (exactly why he's frustrated with life) and instead focused on everything else until the inevitable punch arrives and the next arc begins.
Fuck yeah he just dissed one punch man, that's the reason why I'm here. Listening to stuff that I may not agree with, but still understand is candy to my ears.
You making this series helped me make and adjust a speedster that I’m trying to write, and although I did put certain limitations before hand, that being her having a limit to how much stamina she has (basically meaning she can have a time in a bottle moment, but she’d immediately fall dead after the fact if she doesn’t have enough energy), but this series really has made me look back and try to tone down or tone up her abilities in certain situations.
I'm so glad there's a whole channel dedicated to criticizing speedsters because it always boogled my mind how any team with a speedster simply lost! In my head they basically should have infinite plot armor due to how their power works unless you basically create weak points
All those speedsters obviously have a severe case of whatever my condition is called, basically i randomly "turn off" basically i just stand there tthink nothing for some time and I can't even react to other things during that time, luckily it only last for a few seconds at the longest
One small nitpick is that Red Rush didn't so much block Omniman's punch (did not stop it in its place) so much as he deflected it (and Omniman wasn't harmed by it, so that tracks with the force of his punches later on when he's been grabbed).
Doomsday absolutely has super speed, he's literally a mutated kryptonian. Even in the comics Doomsday's speed was a match for everyone in the Justice League with the exception of maybe The Flash if he goes all out.
8:25 "When did it become disrespectful to insult someone's intelligence?" I'm sorry, but that kind of sounds like "When did it become disrespectful to be disrespectful?" xD
“Roadrunner and speedy Gonzalez it’s finally time for their day in the sun.” Followed by one sentence about some completely unrelated show before moving into the next one had me dying 😂
I think the way a lot of these things could basically solve the speed thing is just going “On demand” rather than constant. And also kinda setting up a thing of since they can move so fast they have to think faster than they can move. But doing so means once they start a moment they can’t just, stop on a dime without injuring themselves. Or even just outright saying they can’t period and their movements have to be thought out. Which is what I think they were trying to do with red rush, but it just didn’t come across as such
I learned a lot about writing a good speedster from your videos, thanks. My main character is a speedster and their speed was definitely pretty inconsistent.
aint no WAY you just called One a “basic writer.” his writing is the reason why the anime even became an anime bruh, have you seen his drawings in the original web comic one punch man? his story writing is immaculate edit: to add on, idc if u think its basic or not, you can have your opinions. what i care abt is calling him and his writing basic, huge disrespect
Filler has nothing to do with it being in the source, filler is defined as follows: "Filler episodes are entries in a generally continuous serial that are unrelated to the main plot, don't significantly alter the relations between the characters, and generally serve only to take up space. This could be considered Padding (the addition of scenes to lengthen a story) applied to a whole franchise by creating brand new episodes." Also, the manga is not OPMs source material, the webcomic is, and the manga has tons of what you defined as filler.
@@nickelakon5369Depending on how you interpret that definition with this show it's almost entirely filler or there's no filler at all, because every single episode has some sort of exposition that leads into later episodes or arcs but also just trails off into episodic territory.
I think if you treat OPM as anything other than what it’s meant to be - a comedy- it falls apart because it was only written for comedic purposes. It’s an episodic unserious story that has themes ascribed to it by fans searching for a deeper, overarching meaning. It doesn’t have “basic” themes, it just wasn’t written as a thematic or impactful narrative. In the same way you wouldn’t criticize the plot of Big Bang Theory or A Midsummers Night Dream, you can’t really criticize the plot of opm. They’re comedies and should be judged by how funny they are, not the thematic consistency or depth. Yes, OPM has morals dotted throughout, like with mumem rider. But a solitary moral is far from the point of the story. Also, on another note, I’d like to point out that “basic” themes do not preclude great writing. Myriad pieces of fantastic literature (Great Gatsby, Three Body Problem, Lotr) have “basic” themes. Lotr literally has the most basic good vs evil theme I can think of. But because they present their themes in interesting scenarios with great characterization, they are good stories with potentially life altering thematic value. Criticizing a theme just for being “basic” is a product of highbrow bias, not a genuine understanding of great literature.
Omni-Man is only slightly slower than Red Rush. Like Flash vs Superman, Flash gets tagged if attempting to battle Superman. Dodging Omni-Man's attacks is not so easy for Red Rush since they are super speed.
i think everything you said about red rush is correct, but i do have a bit of conjecture what seems likely to me is that this was a difference between writer intention and animation, or if nothing else this is how red rush's situation might have been improved a. omni man is a speedster only in the speed part (able to cause massive explosions just by fly fast), not the perception part he's just as fast or potentially faster than rush, but if he wanted to catch him he'd have to predict him b. red rush was not meant to block a full force punch, but was intended to redirect it to avoid war woman getting hit c. omni man wasnt supposed to let go of rush at any point, just a mistake on the animators' part (dumber things have happened with these sorts of things, see diavolo crushing the scorpion in jojo) once again, all conjecture, but might've made the dumbness of rush's death a bit better
another thing, when omniman first grabs him you can see rush pulling away at normal speed when he previously pulled his punch just as fast as he threw it, so it can potentially be reasoned we're meant to be seeing slow-mo, though thats unfortunately likely not the case
Bro I'm so glad I found your channel! I've been saying the same thing about speedsters for years! And you're right! People hate when you call out the bad writing or stupidity of a character that should be literally god tier losing to a slow mortal.
Bro said One Punch Man has bad writing 💀 And as a One Punch Man fan, I can agree. The writing for the anime was somewhat bad because it was adapted from Yusuke Murata’s version, where he added a lot of extra stuff instead of being faithful to ONE’s original version (which has great writing, check it out). I think if this guy had read the webcomic or maybe even the manga he would change his mind.
Slight explanation for the "Superman having X ray vision", in previous scenes its shown that Bruce was making smoke bombs out of lead, and superman can't see through lead.
Honestly the best way to have a speedster be affected by a reguler person is to have a cooldown between when they can use their speed. It could be build into the ability or be magic where a spell has to be cast with a duration. Once the duration ends time would be needed to prepare the spell again. Another way of doing it is having a resource be needed like in the mistborn books. It requires the right metal that is consumed with the use of the ability/you must be slow for a time in order to be fast as there’s a few ways speed is achieved in mistborn
I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL SO GODDAMN MUCH. like for real ur one of the coolest dudes i discovered - youre genuinely smart WHILE being hilarious / funny while being logical which is so refreshing when everyone on this website seems to have had some sort of concussion
I've read everything up to date for One Punch Man, and its highly consistent with his speed. Though it may be a self aware ironic show and its meant to be a representation of a over powered character, the "show" makes sense of it and explains it to the reader exactly what the thought process is of how to measure Bald Mans power, such an example was the fight between Egg Man and God Garou.
In regards to Megamind, I agree that metro man is written well. But the problem is titan is supposed to get all of his powers and he definitely does not fight with super speed. I guess you can chalk this up to not being familiar with all this power yet but still.
It might not be much of an addition but when redrush moves it always seems like he's moving on ice. He takes a second to stop or start accelerating when he's moving. I like to think it's because he's so fast that he can't really get a lot of traction. That explains why he kinda sits there after each hit on omniman. He's still a blur so he's definitely moving, but he just can't get the traction. Just my little headcannon though
Have you ever seen Justice League Unlimited? There's an episode in which Lex Luthor switches minds with The Flash and instantly becomes 10X more effective because he's so much smarter.
As someone who hasn't seen Invincible, thank you for dunking on its fans. Not for any personal bias, I just hate serial yappers who are supporting mid like it's top-tier. Not saying Invincible is mid, I wouldn't know that. Just lately, I have been paying more attention to the writing of things, and it makes me feel like a downer when I have to pay too much attention to stories doing shit that makes no sense for a character. My favorite manga right now is Tokyo Revengers, now even if you're not an anime watcher, this anime was being pushed as the next best thing after Attack on Titan but because of shit writing it fell off. Seeing people defend MY FAVORITE manga with their soul, when it's just poorly written in places upsets me to an amount it shouldn't.
Unlike Red Rush, Viltrumites modulate their speed. If they're moving slowly, they think slowly, and vis versa. Still, the Reanimen are just as much of a pain to consider as they in the comic, only worse.
nice hot take on one punch man, personally it puts a different twist on the main character's goals of being the strongest, putting them there already and just making him find a purpose to power and strength instead. The show does not take itself seriously, but it also does at the same time.. Also, there is no filler, straight up cap on your part its just that laid back and it isnt what you expect from a superhero anime. Its probably best to just watch something you've been recommended with the same enthusiasm as if it caught your attention because I have been guilty of that lmao.
The thing with speedsters is that it’s impossible to write a really good one without making them literally unstoppable. Which is why you need to give them weaknesses. But what a lot of shows and movies struggle to do it give speedsters weaknesses that actually make sense and connect with the plot. Once you have a speedster that has good writing and a weakness that actually makes sense; it will then come down to how badass and cool they actually are. And I feel like no show or movie has been able to show a speedster with good fleshed out writing, a weakness that actually makes sense, and a good amount of badass cool scenes. In my opinion, although he isn’t the perfect speedster; I feel like A-Train is the closest thing we have gotten to this idea of a perfectly written speedster. He’s also by far the most realistic one.
Invincibles' creator once said Mark could easily beat superman. That is also the moment when i realized you couldn't take him or the fans defending it seriously.
In fairness, Superman was "only" obscenely powerful when the Invincible comic came out, and it's only in recent years that his feats have grown to defeating omniversal beings, lifting books with infinite mass, and whistling to prevent the destruction of the multiverse from entropy itself.
@@roguebarbarian9133 He accidentally sneezed multiple planets out of orbit in one of his early comics. In fact, I'd say most of his craziest feats are from those early ones. And on the other hand mark gets consistently beaten close to death by people who superman could incapacitate in an instant.
@@Монс-й1ь well, he's a character that has existed for decades (15 years shy of a century) so of course he's not going to be consistent (his original writers died a couple decades ago). And because of that there are plenty of writers who don't understand what the character represents and end up writing him poorly.
Author statements can be easily dismissed if they involve anything along the lines of “my character is stronger than this other character I do not own”. The character you wrote is stronger? Then prove it, make them do something impressive, don’t just claim they’re more powerful than works you don’t own the rights to.
I kinda wish I said something stupid so I could get flamed in your video. Also, Wonder Woman belongs in the F- tier because she has speed react that she forgets about randomly.
I had a counterpoint to the dash thumbtack scene. Do you think it simply looks that way because of the time period/ technology a place like a public school would have? I know the incredibles is fiction but it clearly does have a style and setting that's pretty contemporary. I don't know security camera tech at all so maybe i'm wrong, and i don't think they confirm how fast dash is in the film (i say this because you refer to him as being around maybe 200 mph multiple times; and like where is the source for that if it isn't just a random number.) But my point is maybe the camera can't really process or capture his level of speed given the time period or technology? It is being shown on an old CRT television too afterall.
A way to write a godlike speedster that actually makes sense is to make them insane and unable to live alongside people; they perceive time hundreds of times slower than everyone else. How do they understand what people are saying? why should they care what's going on in the world? They have centuries to figure it out from their perspective? How would they stay sane, living essentially thousands if not millions of years with no one else being able to live at the same pace as them?
i think the reason A-train missed atack from Kimiko is because he wast expecting her dealing any damage to him. but if he knew that shes super human then yeah its dumb
hearing you mention Oscar's Oasis just unlocked a core memory in my mind that was buried for years wtf. I'm not a furry(thank god) but the fox character made me feel things as a kid 💀
You should talk about lore accurate kirby's speed and wherther it works in the game's perspective or not. As they hove really crazy speed stats for kirby. Btw, love you content.
Interesting video, i never saw that Red Rush inconsistency, the scene had so much going on, that i just forgot about the rest when i watched for the first time lol.
10:00 though i can see potential issue with this thumb tack scene, i can see some level of justification in it. it doesn't necessarily have to be speed react to justify him being able to pull this off, as the action is relatively simple, and premeditated. all he has to do is run up, plop the object down (preferably laying the right way up but depending on the tact that may be made easier) then run back down He wasn't doing anything before doing it, there was nothing else he had to focus on. He could've simply just been rehearsing how he'd do it in his head as he waited for the right moment to do it. It was the only thing he had to focus on. It's like throwing a punch, you don't necessarily need to think through the whole action of closing your hand into a fist while it's moving forward twords your target in response to what your target is doing. you just make a fist and punch all in one movemnt
That’s what I always imagined it as. And that would apply to other speedsters too, if it’s not specified whether they have speed react, I always thought that they just knew what they wanted to do at normal speed, and the powers took over from there. That’s just a head canon though, I’m not saying it’s fact.(unlike some other comments)
its one thing to throw a punch without thinking about it, but getting up from a chair, moving so you dont just hit your knees against the bench (i dont know if thats the right word for it tbh), moving a specific distance, precisely placing a thumbtack in the teachers chair and going back the same way in less time than a camera can catch without speed react? i dont think so.
@@rockargen9591 it's a lot more believable then pulling off something like that in a high stress environment, like if someone is trying to murder you. Which is why he wasn't able to pull off the same stunt when he was actually in battle
As a sonic fan, I agree with where you placed him and basically everyone else. I am curious how you'd rank other versions of Sonic (especially when he is subject to game mechanics). I don't think you should though, b/c I don't want to see other intelligent beings suffer lol.
@@mrme.484 I feel he will rank comic sonic as an F, maybe a D depending upon which comic continuity. TV sonic definitely would be lower unless it's From adventures (which is a gag show) or SaTaM. I think SatAM could get away with a C ircc. Game Sonic in classic era would seem more like an S, while modern sonic might maybe squeak out a D or low C. Namely because cutscenes are inconsistent.
In the case of read rush I think you could explain it as omni man used reflect speed instead of perception speed to catch him. Which could be close enough to red rushes perception speed to catch him off guard.
For Invincible: When Omni Man, puts Mark through a train. Mark tries to punch him, using his speed omni man goes behind him and puts him in the ground bouncing Mark back up, watching mark go back up in slow motion. so maybe he does have super speed, or at least shown in that part. But that means Omni man has super speed and doesn’t use it. So poor writing again😢 Also more Critique on writing vids plz.💪
Thought my boy Sonic would have made it farther up the tier list, but you're right, him being able to move in bullet time without Chaos Control or Shara's Time Break breaks the consistency of the character. Was a fun scene but he should've just fought them in real time like game Sonic would, cause even in real time Sonic/and adult version of Dash could easily take out a room of avergae grown men. Movie Sonic isn't as strong as games Sonic even with his bullet time scene feat, but consistency wise the game version works because the entire world is balanced around him. Many of his enemies and rivals are also speedsters and his villain is a genius who can create all manner of machine to counter Sonic and his weaknesses. Besides potentially Archie Sonic (by far the strongest version of Sonic), Movie Sonic is the only version who can move in bullet time, but odly enough, the speeds he moves at in the movie in real-time scenes aren't any faster than Sonic's normal jogging speed in the games, who at the start of his career couls easily run on water for example. You're tierlist placement is fair. I still enjoy the Sonic films and games despite their writting hiccups (except Forces and parts of Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06). Ain't nothing wrong with enjoying something that's not very well writtern as that one person said, I come to Sonci stories for fun, heartfelt, or cool interactions between characters. And the movies have given me that for the most part.
Guys thanks for watching. And double thanks for 13k subs. I'm probably gonna take like a 2 week break with back to back games coming out that I wanna play. We got Halo Forge AI (900 years in the making), Spider-Man 2, UFC 5, Alien Hominid Invasion, and then maybe someone releases another jankey garbage ass flash unreal engine ass tech demo. But we'll see
@@streetplaya23 i'm gonna be honest I don't know who this "belal" guy is but I do think that one guy from that one fight, can't remember much about it, deserves a title shot. I actually remember him almost losing his eye to Leon Scott. Leon do be dodging the rematch
Big disrespect on Sonic ngl, mentioning defeats for others and not for sonic. Only got hit by robotnik in his sonic speed juiced jet and by another speedster. Easy S tier
Great list, cant believe that i only found you channel now. Agree with everything except for Ben 10, I figured he'd be in C tier since he's just a kid learning what he can do. Though later on with Ben 10,000 (Adult Ben from OG show) we see him basically perfect that alien and it become his most used one, I believe, dont quote me on that though since its been like 10 years since last I saw that episode.
The fact a crackhead squirrel has more consistent writing than flash says a lot 💀
😹
Not just flash, four flashes
@BeefyGreek
Not too surprising. Well known comic characters are pretty much always inconsistent.
lol, one character with "invincibility" or super durability or whatever you want to call it had to deliberately explain that they turned off their invincibility because the force that someone was using would cause them to shatter their own arm. I do not remember who though, sadly.
Squirrel Girl?
I’m pretty fast should’ve included me on the list.
So am I but I'm not in it either
Holy shit wtf are u on 😂😂🤣
@@Eaglecat102 no, ur not redacted9990
@@aidanayala2768 no, I am Eaglecat
How fast can you run?
It's so funny when a character is shown being able to travel at hyperspace speeds and later struggling to keep up with a plane or something
Reminds me of Jetray from Ben 10.
@@benapeh854same
@@benapeh854that series any good? I just finished Legend of Korra and my friend said to give it a go
@markmessi9020 Ehhh. It's definitely a fun watch. Then again it's a show that originally aired when most of us were kids, so nostalgia is definitely a factor.
@markmessi9020 If you like sci-fi and adventure shows, then sure, you would definitely love it. Though it has 4 shows of it, you can watch the first show and a bit of the second and see if you like it
Omniman and Homelander really just suffer from the "Superman-Flash" syndrome: writers want the super OP guy to truly be super OP, so they have them keep up with the speedster of the team, but because they're not meant to be written as speedsters, then anyone can keep up with them.
So yeah, both Omniman and Homelander are "faux-speedsters", which is BS
This is also true of Superman, but then again Superman is like a giga dork dumb*ss.
I can definitely hear Superman's goofy ahh saying something like "Well if I used my speed it would be unfair to my opponents!"
Viltromites arent faux speedsters their perception and actual speed just changes based on some internal shit. They gotta dial it up. They can travel to distant stars in days and perceive things at that speed but dont have the perception or speed for that normally especially on planets they tune it down so as not to destroy the place.
@@monkeybomb1232 damn, that's crazy they purposely limit themselves. Omniman really wanted to consider the health of the guardians and their headquarter's structural integrity! Really explains why it took so long to defeat them if he was really exerting himself to care about the people he was gonna murder!
@@celty228 Bro he could just fly through the building and wipe them all out instantly the same as that other planet. He didn't want that for whatever reason probably to do with the political situation of taking over the planet.
@@obtuse186 not at all, goofy ass take tbh
Red Rush was obviously mesmerized by the glorious moustasche in front of him.
understandable
Finally someone gets it. Maybe this channel would have a real sub count if he used his eyes to spot the hypno-stache right in front of his face.
I have replies off but i want to make argument
Omni-Man is very fast. Not as fast as Red Rush of course, but he is still very fast. This would make the fact he grabbed Red Rush's hand more believable.
The video maker then says Omni-Man "slowly puts his hands on the side of his head" There is like four frames of animation where red rush doesn't have omni-man's fingertips embedded into the side of his face and skull.
He makes a very good point about the full-force punch not effecting him as much as his skull getting crushed. maybe he is so fast he is able to manipulate how his body absorbs the impact from the punch so he doesn't get turned into mush. If he is held off the ground there isn't any way for him to get any leverage to displace the force
One of the biggest factors I see people miss about Red Rush as well is he has another obvious thing he could've done and he would've survived: run. Obviously he realizes before everyone else that Omni Man is trying to kill them, and since he can apparently think in super speed as well, he would've immediately realized they might not win this fight and it makes 100x more sense for him to just run away and warn everyone. He could've run to every government and warned them, he could've dipped and come back with a camera, he could've grabbed even one of the other guardians and ran away with them as well. There's no world where he decides he wants to get in a hand to hand fight with a demigod
on the part about getting the other guardians i will say.
From what we've seen he seems mildly limited on how many people he can transport at once, so while he's getting some of the guardians out of there, that'd make any of the remaining guardians more vulnerable while they have less backup to fight along side them
Even if it only takes 1 minute, or even 30 seconds, thats a decent amount of time for any guardians left to be picked up last to fend for themselves
Yes, altough the guardians assumed at first he might be possesed or something. So this might not be his first instinct
@MaxMax-tt6db I was thinking that as well after writing this. Still would've made more sense for him to sit back and assess the situation or see if he can figure out what if anything is possessing him instead of fighting him hand to hand. The whole fight is so poorly written though, it is what it is (see batman knock off throwing himself at omni man lmao)
In all honesty he could have moved all the guardians out so they could regroup and prepare, he’s just stupid
Yeah bro literally have enough time to send a message through phone or something
"When did it become disrespectful to insult someones intelligence?"
The league of legends avatar makes the quote 10x funnier.
Is he stupid?
@@exalted-champion-of-grinch Make that 1000 times
Insulting any part of someone is "being disrespectful".
8:14 here ya guys go
"They gave him cocaine and he literally ends the movie" had me howling 😂😂😂 I wasn't ready for that.
I never realized it was cocaine. I just thought it was caffeine. A google search tells me that it was an energy drink. And watching the clip, the can he drinks from says caffeine. If it was a joke that I missed I'm sorry.
Huh
@@wesleymclain9146h uh
@@wesleymclain9146 Yeah, it was clearly a joke. "Cocaine" is way funnier than "soda."
Honestly, you made a pretty consistent Tier list. Saitama, Crackhead Squirrel and Metro Man are the best examples of speedsters
And korosensei….
one of my favorite examples of Saitama just being so casual despite living in hyper speed and somehow panicking about every minor detail for comedy. I don't remember if he asked someone else or just commented but it was basically, "did you just see a naked ninja?" when Sonic(the ninja that considers himself Saitama's rival) was fleeing a scene XD
@@wolfbain21 actually, Koro is written pretty inconsistently. He's been surprised by children moving at normal speeds but can sense when a bullet is fired at super sonic velocity from miles away and appear in front of their scope. Then there's koro's backstory... they even touched on it in the story. As just an example, one of his enemies was able to clone him and his powers... the whole thing is a mess, but a mess we all love.
@@wolfbain21 if you want an even further example of the inconsistency... Koro sensei can move at speeds far faster than mach 17 (as was his stated speed). He is able to scatter all of the atoms caused by his super speed in order to protect passengers but ALSO able to stop those atoms from colliding with their neighbors and causing a nuclear explosion... at least if I remember his explanation for how he was able to travel with students on his person.
Saitamas actually written pretty inconsistently in regards to his speed.
Saying one punch man is basic is to completely miss the point. It plays with as many tropes as possible because it’s a parody. You don’t have to like it, but to criticize it for that is weird. Personally I absolutely love it
One Punch Man fans don't and have never treated it as satire. They obsess over it to the point where they give Goku meatriders a run for their money.
Everything he said is valid. The series being "satire of tropes" doesn't make it good. Just like Game of Thrones Season 8 "subverting our expectations" didn't make it good.
@@Akiraspin It's more like saying Naruto is bad because you don't like ninjas. My point is that being a parody doesn't automatically make it bad either. I like it because I enjoy reading it.
I know I’m late and I don’t want to start an argument but he is right OPM has pretty basic writing and that is obvious.
ONE was a very in experienced writer and Mangaka when he started OPM.
Obviously he’s gotten better but the story arcs shown in the anime are of the beginning of OPM so yeah.
Good premise, basic writing in the beginning.
Oh and to not get confused, I absolutely love OPM, the anime, manga and Webcomic and I am not some random guy that has not even watched/read OPM.
But when compared to other works that captivated me and/or other readers/watchers it isn’t the best written story out there..
I absolutely agree... in regards to season 1 chapters. It felt like S2 became everything the series orginially parodied, using common basic anime tropes again, but now, sincerely. I honestly loved the self-aware "basic" writing of S1 and was pretty let down that it lost that down the line. Surprisingly when I see people dislike S2 it's due to the animation changes (which I had no problem with), barely ever mentioning the tone shift; so @@Akiraspin might have a point about OPM fans.
has there every been a speedster that avoids touching people so he doesn't immediately snap their necks? Momentum is a factor that could make for a compelling factor and limitation to these characters but writers don't care because "NUHHH BIG POWER LEVEL THO".
Technically A-Train kinda did that when he ran through that girl but it’s not really talked about after that tho
Being a speedster automatically requires the character to have more powers to back up their main power since realistic superspeed would have A LOT of drawbacks, so the ability to control momentum is often one of the abilities speedsters are given
@@SigilOfBaphometThe same can be said of every super-strength character having passively having super durability. It makes every fight super lame flaccid slugfests that end only when it's convenient for the writer.
scenes for xmen quicksilver live show him grabbing the back of people's necks/head so they don't snap from whiplash
Zsjl flash, I seriously don't think he touched anybody in superspeed except Aquaman.
You roasting people in the comments is why I subbed lol
Rs
same
Deadass half of the reason
It kind of just comes off as insecure imo
@@DaWhisperHow is it stupidity to expose bad writing. Ol mate is one of them no brainers who doesnt get the memo 💀
Thank you for finally getting A-Train right. (though I think you should put him into A tier just because... you know, A-Train)
He can run away from Homelander, dodge his attacks, whatever, but he would have to do it... forever. Homelander can get him in his sleep, when he's exhausted, he can take hostages... A-Train is afraid because Homelander is a psychopath, not because of some power level. They also stated in the show that nothing has ever damaged Homelander (before Soldier Boy), so I would expect that includes A-Train.
homelander can fly faster than a train can fly
@@hyperion9937 That's not very fast, considering trains don't fly
@@T0NI_ XD
The Ben 10 alien is SO fast because he is riding on rollerskates. Its easy for him to be fast, but its not always easy to balance.
Exactly, the reboot didn’t do many things good but it’s alien homeworlds mini series explained this incredibly well
@@Hamzurger Yeah, I rememberd that detail from the mini series
You have 100% 18:43
In regards to invincible, if you’re strong enough to punch a hole through metal or whatever, then you can throw your fist extremely fast. It’s just a question of whether you can think at the same speed. He cannot, but it’s still possible he can catch red Rush this way. It would be like a human catching a fly. Obviously flies react, faster, but you can get lucky enough to slap one.
Personally I think that “it’s like hours to me” was hyperbole but it’s still insane that when Omni man caught his punch he didn’t try to escape. Or punch back. I still agree with you I just think it’s not as bad as you think
omni-man is fast too
@@Pepper2B yes but not nearly as fast as red rush
@@w_toons7640 he can fly at light-speed
he’s gotta have pretty god damn high reaction time for that
@@Pepper2B yes but faster than being able to change into your suit in a second. I don’t think so
@@w_toons7640Omni man also never uses his super speed again after the one scene we can actually see it sooo
When talking about Quicksilver (the one from the xmen movies) its important to consider which movie. Hes much better written in Days of Future Past. He has that good time in a bottle scene, and then basically just dips and doesnt show back up again, because he doesnt care. Thats a very easily and believable flaw to give a speedster is the idgaf factor. He could've singlehandedly dealt with the whole Mystique getting shot fiasco but was too young and selfish to care. They didnt have to nerf his power in any way, they instead just gave him a character flaw that caused him to become a non factor
That being said, the issue with Apocalypse is easily fixable too, the writers are just dumb. The scene could've gone the same way where QS is pinballing him but they could have that scene longer where it kicks up a bunch of dust, and we basically see QS hands on his knees sucking wind and as the dust clears we see Apocalypse standing there without a scratch. That wouldve actually made Apocalypse more threatening imo because it establishes that even if other mutants have powers he cant match, it doesnt matter because they still cant hurt him. Durability is an intimidating factor
I honestly prefer the category of "speed and faster reflexes on demand" speedsters. Not because I find them more interesting, but because writers are usually more able to write around this ability compared to regular super speed
That's why when I write my speedsters(my own version of Werewolves), the fast speed comes from adrenaline and increased blood flow instead of it being a superpower. It is a physiological reaction to having high blood pressure. The more panicked, the faster they can move. The more relaxed, the slower. A drunk, calm, or tired werewolf is little more than a human with good hearing/smell/eyesight. But a werewolf in a fight or when hunting is a proper to be feared beast with inhuman speed and agility.
@@LycanFerret Where can I read? Sounds interesting
@@LycanFerret Thx! And if you ever decide to, I think it’ll be great:D
So like spidey sense?
My boy Belal catching strays even out of MMA content😭
Belal hate is much like speedster powers. It transcends all logic and spacetime
Belal ain't beating the boring allegations, pray for ya boy 🙏😭
Honestly I wouldn't mind an analysis of David in Cyberpunk. I feel like he was pretty good, with how he's limited a lot by it and most of the time he has it he's either super inexperienced or extremely overwhelmed with emotions and drugs. But you always pick up on stuff I missed so I feel it would be interesting. It probably wouldn't give you enough content for a full video on its own anyway.
😂😂well as a speedster David was written pretty consistently unlike any of these guys he's not actually fast so his reaction time is at a normal person's level and when he does use his dandi he isn't dumb just an inexperienced kid or a junkie
@@tawonat7 No? David is pretty obviously shown to have super heightened reaction times as well, but with the caveat that he has to activate the sandevistan so he isn't permanently in that speed, so we only see him lose to something if he's surprised or is against another Sandevistan user.
Holy moly, the squirrel from Over the Hedge really came out of left field for me. Good work dude
I don't know the squirrel is known for his speed, but wtf is FARQUAAD doing here??
I love over the hedge
Oh, you mean Hammy?
one suuper minor thing, in the training scene in batman vs superman, you can see for about 2 seconds the gas canisters have “pb” written on them which is the periodic sumbol for lead. but this detail is glossed over so quickly so it is a bit of an inconsistency
Damn thats 3 times my ass was caught lacking. I probably should've watched batman vs superman but the movie is so god damn boring that I just look at the fight scenes. But it was just a nitpick that doesn't really add or take away much from what I'm saying.
@@RSG200 yes exactly, i think that its on the movie for not making it that obvious in a 3 hour film i dont blame u its so boring, as most people aren’t pausing every frame to catch the detail and have the entire periodic table memorised
p.s. i love ur videos
@@RSG200based
@@RSG200 right about Metroman. rewatched the Megamind movie. probably one of the best consistent speedsters fast enough who can go into slow-mo mode
but i noticed one thing...
would you agree the scene where they find him, he coulda just noticed them about to turn around in super slow mo and just speeded away before they stop lookin at the ice cubed glass and turned around? considering the scene where he was reading book and diner waitress was frozen while falling, to him, Megamind and Roxanne woulda been standing there backs turned for a whole hour for his POV while he already noticed them.
might be the only mistake in the decision making for the sake of him getting found alive for the plot. otherwise there would be NO WAY to find him unless he stood still for hours. they would only find clues from items he left like the ice cubes. but never see him in person or on video unless he speeded by slow mo cameras.
only reason i can think that would make him just give up an let them find out was, "well they seen the ice cubes and i dont feel like tearing up all the Music Man memorabilia then running away, hoping they just think its some squatters who broke in to my old home"
but why wouldnt he do that? he would have an hour or more to think about it.
then theres the reaction he had. why would he react like that when they did turn and see him. all surprised and off guard. that would be like seeing them and staring at their backs for hour or more then being surprised with them as they turned? as soon as he noticed them he woulda just went into speedster mode and everything goes into slow mo like the diner.
might be the only mistake in consistency for metroman.
thoughts?
@@streetplaya23 cause it's funny
Also funny thing- apparently Over The Hedge time freeze scene inspired X-Men QuickSilver scene. Props to Schaffrillas for giving me that knowledge.
The whole, "it's possible to enjoy something and still think it's shit writing" hit hard when he ranked Wally West from JLU in F-tier.
He was the heart of that show, and it was a fun show.
I love Invincible but those comments defending Red Rush’s death making sense are so fucking braindead LMAO. This dude is spitting facts. I’ll never understand how people can be so delusional about something just because they like it.
You probably never met any Batman & superman fans then😂
Spoilers for JJBA!!!
I don’t know if Made in Heaven from JJBA counts, but he is able to move faster due to the acceleration of time. He is pretty consistent in using his speed while also being careful of his only hard counter, Jotaro’s time stop, making his potential defeat not to farfetched. And when he dies he is killed by something he cant even see, meaning no matter how fast he was, he was going to die.
@@kujojotarostandoceanman2641 Did watch that. It does good work in putting the power Pucci had in perspective along with how the characters must have felt.
Jotaro's za warudo stops being a counter when his acceleration thing affects the time stop making it end instantly before it's even active
*flying joestar* (just a joke)
We all know its not your last speedster vid 😂
"I can stop whenever i want"
Though not sure what he could do as a follow up
there was the initial video, the follow up video defending his stance, and now a tier list
If there is a 4th I'll be surprised
lol maybe but right now I genuinely have no ideas. Each time I've done one of these I focused on expanding on the topics instead of just extending them. So unless I pull something out of my ass, its gonna be a while
@@RSG200do you have any interest in looking at more archetypes for bad written characters deaths? A lot of potential for marvel and Star wars to talk shit lol. Also it would probably be funny to just start braking down a lot of those anime things because people in those communities love to argue and have shit takes😂. Amazing video, really funny, keep uploading and you will hit a million. Like for example demon slayer has some seriously stupid debates.
Theres a lot to say when it comes to OPM. First, there is actually no filler in the series, its pretty faithful. Though if you consider the additions the Manga (which was subsequently adapted to the anime) made to the Webcomic "filler", that's basically the entirety of season 2. Second, there is only one writer. Third, his name isnt "One Punch Man". Its Caped Baldy or Saitama.
😂
the manga is bloated, if One and Murata had decided to follow the webcomic we could have had Saitama vs Garou a long time ago....
I think he meant filler as in "story lines that arw longer than they need to be"
Does that really apply to Slice of Life/comedy series though?
The plot is secondary
@@xerfrex7869 Yes, when you take two years of redraws
13:38 thing about mikari is ikaris also has faster speed not as fast as her but still very fast and consistent. I didn't even understand why do you not consider her consistent.
3:13 you know why they did this? Because "aw yes that's so cool I love blood i'm a 13 year old it's not a phase moooom!!"
Absolute W for succinctly covering Invincible's inconsistencies with their speed. Although powerscaling is subjective, Red Rush, Omni-Man, and Mark's feats require a lot of mental gymnastics, such as the scene where Omni-man caught Red Rush's fist. For this reason, debates involving Invincible are the most obnoxious.
I distinctly remember reading the invincible comics and thinking the inconsistent power scalings being my least favorite part. Red Rush is far from the only problem there.
Bro‘s never been in a debate involving Sonic or Saitama
Red rush landing punches on Omni-man is just something they added in the show to make it more dramatic, canonically speaking Omni-man just ended the fight in a second
@@SigilOfBaphometMate the video is talking about the show, the comic isn’t brought up for a reason.
Red Rush don't need mental gymnastics lol especially in that scene where he's just doing normal stuff and not coming up with high iq plan
My impression of the Omni man red rush fight was that Omni man lacked super perception but could move at super speed. That's why he bides his time taking hits, he predicts Rush's attack, he doesn't react to it, and moves at super speed to catch it.
This explanation makes sense and also makes Omni man seem like a seasoned warrior overcoming a physical limitation with battle smarts.
I have no explanation for him grabbing red Rush's head at that speed though 😅
If he has super movement speed (not flight speed, actual movement speed) then it should have come up in his other fights. Even if omniman can't use speed perceive, he still should have been speed attacking in his other fights.
@@aquashuriken1634 don't they do it all the time? Whenever they use their limbs as cutting objects to decapitate or stab people, only makes sense if those attacks are at super speed, otherwise why aren't viltrumites always punching through each other. And yes this is me fully making excuses but the justification for them not always using it might be that they require proper posturing in order to use their flight leverage to attain those speeds without throwing themselves into a cartwheel from the momentum.
if you could move at super speed but not perceive things at that speed, then fighting at those speeds would leave you blind. Also they do use super speed in fights, whenever they chop someone's head off its not that they are turning their hand sharp, they are accelerating it to speeds where the shear force is enough to cut.
Why they don't use it more often could probably be explained by omni mans comments on leverage, they can create their own leverage which would be required because throwing your hand in one direction at near the speed of sound would throw you off balance a little. I assume they use their leverage ability to keep upright, but that it requires some level of concentration to 'ground' yourself against those kinds of forces. the time it takes to prepare yourself to strike at that speed would negate the effectiveness of attacking at that speed, unless you only use it as a finishing move or when you know you have time to prepare that kind of attack mid fight.
I really like this explanation because it takes the worldbuilding into account and adds a layer of complexity to viltrumite battle tactics, while also allowing super cool hand\fist stabbing scenes. @@aquashuriken1634
My takeaway too. I mean he flies to different planets on the regular. I think he can catch a speedsters hand.
The best thing your argument does is at least Justify Omni Man to an extent
Red Rush is still a Goofy Goober
Did he just diss one punch man.
He is obviously just gate keeping cause ain't no way he is seriously saying it's full of filler
He called One ' one of the less skilled writers'💀💀💀
18:16
@@taktexpI mean, there's a reason why they changed demon garou into possessed-by-god garou.
Murata is bound by ONE's writing.
But at the same time, it doesn't seem OPM is his cup of tea. OPM is ultimately a collection of anti-climaxes, let everyone do their thing until Saitama arrives and ends it in one punch, making us feel the same desperation our egghead protagonist feels. All forms of the story encapsulates that and that's why they try to deconstruct the expected story, a "what if we skipped every fight, power up and villain"; what remains is the core of OPM: Mundane life, goals and objectives, meaning of being a hero, etc.
Such message and concept won't be properly assimilated by everyone (hell, there's s large chunk of the fandom who only wants Saitama to punch things indefinitely without reason), and perhaps that's why it's not high in the fav list.
@@JohanPijnSaitama IS the filler, by his nature of being The One Punch Man we get nothing in the middle (exactly why he's frustrated with life) and instead focused on everything else until the inevitable punch arrives and the next arc begins.
Fuck yeah he just dissed one punch man, that's the reason why I'm here. Listening to stuff that I may not agree with, but still understand is candy to my ears.
You making this series helped me make and adjust a speedster that I’m trying to write, and although I did put certain limitations before hand, that being her having a limit to how much stamina she has (basically meaning she can have a time in a bottle moment, but she’d immediately fall dead after the fact if she doesn’t have enough energy), but this series really has made me look back and try to tone down or tone up her abilities in certain situations.
Whats your series called and where can I see/read/watch it?
@@amingo9100 unfortunately I have yet to publish this work, BUT be on the look out for a series called “Ultra Inc.”
They didn’t forget that Superman had x-ray vision. Superman can’t see through lead, which is the smoke Batman used to evade Superman.
finally someone who understands what it means to be a speedster, great tier list, keep up the awesome content bro
Speedsters would be gods if they were written correctly
I'm so glad there's a whole channel dedicated to criticizing speedsters because it always boogled my mind how any team with a speedster simply lost! In my head they basically should have infinite plot armor due to how their power works unless you basically create weak points
Man really said wonder women doesn't have super speed
😂😂😂
So how does she be blocking bullet 😂😂😂
All those speedsters obviously have a severe case of whatever my condition is called, basically i randomly "turn off" basically i just stand there tthink nothing for some time and I can't even react to other things during that time, luckily it only last for a few seconds at the longest
One small nitpick is that Red Rush didn't so much block Omniman's punch (did not stop it in its place) so much as he deflected it (and Omniman wasn't harmed by it, so that tracks with the force of his punches later on when he's been grabbed).
Doomsday absolutely has super speed, he's literally a mutated kryptonian. Even in the comics Doomsday's speed was a match for everyone in the Justice League with the exception of maybe The Flash if he goes all out.
Then why didn't this fucking moron use super speed while fighting with Super Man
Then how does he not speed kill batman?
@@aquashuriken1634 How does Doomsday not kill Batman?
Doomsday doesn't fight Batman
@@Tachyon836 he does, batman, superman and wonderwoman are all fighting him
Sad
8:25 "When did it become disrespectful to insult someone's intelligence?" I'm sorry, but that kind of sounds like "When did it become disrespectful to be disrespectful?" xD
“Roadrunner and speedy Gonzalez it’s finally time for their day in the sun.” Followed by one sentence about some completely unrelated show before moving into the next one had me dying 😂
how a squirrel from over the hedge and saitama on here but not father pucci 😭
I think the way a lot of these things could basically solve the speed thing is just going “On demand” rather than constant. And also kinda setting up a thing of since they can move so fast they have to think faster than they can move. But doing so means once they start a moment they can’t just, stop on a dime without injuring themselves. Or even just outright saying they can’t period and their movements have to be thought out. Which is what I think they were trying to do with red rush, but it just didn’t come across as such
I learned a lot about writing a good speedster from your videos, thanks.
My main character is a speedster and their speed was definitely pretty inconsistent.
aint no WAY you just called One a “basic writer.” his writing is the reason why the anime even became an anime bruh, have you seen his drawings in the original web comic one punch man? his story writing is immaculate
edit: to add on, idc if u think its basic or not, you can have your opinions. what i care abt is calling him and his writing basic, huge disrespect
18:06 do you even know what filler is? This was in the manga so it’s not filler.
Filler has nothing to do with it being in the source, filler is defined as follows:
"Filler episodes are entries in a generally continuous serial that are unrelated to the main plot, don't significantly alter the relations between the characters, and generally serve only to take up space. This could be considered Padding (the addition of scenes to lengthen a story) applied to a whole franchise by creating brand new episodes."
Also, the manga is not OPMs source material, the webcomic is, and the manga has tons of what you defined as filler.
@@nickelakon5369Depending on how you interpret that definition with this show it's almost entirely filler or there's no filler at all, because every single episode has some sort of exposition that leads into later episodes or arcs but also just trails off into episodic territory.
The manga is more like a rewrite rather than filler.
I think if you treat OPM as anything other than what it’s meant to be - a comedy- it falls apart because it was only written for comedic purposes. It’s an episodic unserious story that has themes ascribed to it by fans searching for a deeper, overarching meaning. It doesn’t have “basic” themes, it just wasn’t written as a thematic or impactful narrative. In the same way you wouldn’t criticize the plot of Big Bang Theory or A Midsummers Night Dream, you can’t really criticize the plot of opm. They’re comedies and should be judged by how funny they are, not the thematic consistency or depth. Yes, OPM has morals dotted throughout, like with mumem rider. But a solitary moral is far from the point of the story.
Also, on another note, I’d like to point out that “basic” themes do not preclude great writing. Myriad pieces of fantastic literature (Great Gatsby, Three Body Problem, Lotr) have “basic” themes. Lotr literally has the most basic good vs evil theme I can think of. But because they present their themes in interesting scenarios with great characterization, they are good stories with potentially life altering thematic value. Criticizing a theme just for being “basic” is a product of highbrow bias, not a genuine understanding of great literature.
The writer should've made Red rush spin omni man around (or something like that) instead of blocking his punches.
Or blinded omni-man by putting his finger on omni-man's eyes or something
Omni-Man is only slightly slower than Red Rush. Like Flash vs Superman, Flash gets tagged if attempting to battle Superman. Dodging Omni-Man's attacks is not so easy for Red Rush since they are super speed.
@@XD-sc4ixOmni-Man would of counter attacked Red Rush. Dont underestimate Omni-Man's speed
@@sumnahlennon5449 tell me you haven't watched this video without telling me you haven't watched this video
@@XD-sc4ixbased stu pidface pfp
i think everything you said about red rush is correct, but i do have a bit of conjecture
what seems likely to me is that this was a difference between writer intention and animation, or if nothing else this is how red rush's situation might have been improved
a. omni man is a speedster only in the speed part (able to cause massive explosions just by fly fast), not the perception part
he's just as fast or potentially faster than rush, but if he wanted to catch him he'd have to predict him
b. red rush was not meant to block a full force punch, but was intended to redirect it to avoid war woman getting hit
c. omni man wasnt supposed to let go of rush at any point, just a mistake on the animators' part (dumber things have happened with these sorts of things, see diavolo crushing the scorpion in jojo)
once again, all conjecture, but might've made the dumbness of rush's death a bit better
another thing, when omniman first grabs him you can see rush pulling away at normal speed when he previously pulled his punch just as fast as he threw it, so it can potentially be reasoned we're meant to be seeing slow-mo, though thats unfortunately likely not the case
Bro I'm so glad I found your channel! I've been saying the same thing about speedsters for years! And you're right! People hate when you call out the bad writing or stupidity of a character that should be literally god tier losing to a slow mortal.
Ngl, you telling your viewers off makes the videos even more entertaining
Bro said One Punch Man has bad writing 💀
And as a One Punch Man fan, I can agree. The writing for the anime was somewhat bad because it was adapted from Yusuke Murata’s version, where he added a lot of extra stuff instead of being faithful to ONE’s original version (which has great writing, check it out). I think if this guy had read the webcomic or maybe even the manga he would change his mind.
16:25 I heard the gas was made of led and superman can't see through led so it checks out
The Red Rush analysis was S-Tier👌
the fact that red rush could've just grabbed war woman's mace and oneshot omni man with it
Slight explanation for the "Superman having X ray vision", in previous scenes its shown that Bruce was making smoke bombs out of lead, and superman can't see through lead.
Honestly the best way to have a speedster be affected by a reguler person is to have a cooldown between when they can use their speed. It could be build into the ability or be magic where a spell has to be cast with a duration. Once the duration ends time would be needed to prepare the spell again. Another way of doing it is having a resource be needed like in the mistborn books. It requires the right metal that is consumed with the use of the ability/you must be slow for a time in order to be fast as there’s a few ways speed is achieved in mistborn
Watch edgerunners
@@tawonat7 that recommendation makes sense considering it's based on a TTRPG
Dio kind of
I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL SO GODDAMN MUCH. like for real ur one of the coolest dudes i discovered - youre genuinely smart WHILE being hilarious / funny while being logical which is so refreshing when everyone on this website seems to have had some sort of concussion
And I love you so goddamn much. You're one of the ones bro so thank you.
I thoroughly enjoyed the sheer righteous rage about the speedster in invincible. That came from the soul
I've read everything up to date for One Punch Man, and its highly consistent with his speed. Though it may be a self aware ironic show and its meant to be a representation of a over powered character, the "show" makes sense of it and explains it to the reader exactly what the thought process is of how to measure Bald Mans power, such an example was the fight between Egg Man and God Garou.
4:30 yeah and that's basically Invincible. The "it's not a phase mom * MCR Evanescence playing in the background *" energy is very strong.
In regards to Megamind, I agree that metro man is written well. But the problem is titan is supposed to get all of his powers and he definitely does not fight with super speed. I guess you can chalk this up to not being familiar with all this power yet but still.
i love this channel and this guy being so aggressive 😭😭
14:33 Oscar's Oasis. Goated show
Couldn't agree more
It might not be much of an addition but when redrush moves it always seems like he's moving on ice. He takes a second to stop or start accelerating when he's moving. I like to think it's because he's so fast that he can't really get a lot of traction. That explains why he kinda sits there after each hit on omniman. He's still a blur so he's definitely moving, but he just can't get the traction. Just my little headcannon though
that's honestly a cool theory and if you look back on it just check how he does curved turns, if they're wide turns you have an even stronger case
Have you ever seen Justice League Unlimited? There's an episode in which Lex Luthor switches minds with The Flash and instantly becomes 10X more effective because he's so much smarter.
As someone who hasn't seen Invincible, thank you for dunking on its fans. Not for any personal bias, I just hate serial yappers who are supporting mid like it's top-tier. Not saying Invincible is mid, I wouldn't know that. Just lately, I have been paying more attention to the writing of things, and it makes me feel like a downer when I have to pay too much attention to stories doing shit that makes no sense for a character. My favorite manga right now is Tokyo Revengers, now even if you're not an anime watcher, this anime was being pushed as the next best thing after Attack on Titan but because of shit writing it fell off. Seeing people defend MY FAVORITE manga with their soul, when it's just poorly written in places upsets me to an amount it shouldn't.
8:16 “when did it become disrespectful to insult somebody’s intelligence” lmao
Definitely satire lmao
Unlike Red Rush, Viltrumites modulate their speed. If they're moving slowly, they think slowly, and vis versa. Still, the Reanimen are just as much of a pain to consider as they in the comic, only worse.
nice hot take on one punch man, personally it puts a different twist on the main character's goals of being the strongest, putting them there already and just making him find a purpose to power and strength instead. The show does not take itself seriously, but it also does at the same time.. Also, there is no filler, straight up cap on your part its just that laid back and it isnt what you expect from a superhero anime. Its probably best to just watch something you've been recommended with the same enthusiasm as if it caught your attention because I have been guilty of that lmao.
To be honest, I enjoy how you don't sugarcoat actual stupidity in comments. Someone has to do it.
The thing with speedsters is that it’s impossible to write a really good one without making them literally unstoppable. Which is why you need to give them weaknesses. But what a lot of shows and movies struggle to do it give speedsters weaknesses that actually make sense and connect with the plot. Once you have a speedster that has good writing and a weakness that actually makes sense; it will then come down to how badass and cool they actually are. And I feel like no show or movie has been able to show a speedster with good fleshed out writing, a weakness that actually makes sense, and a good amount of badass cool scenes. In my opinion, although he isn’t the perfect speedster; I feel like A-Train is the closest thing we have gotten to this idea of a perfectly written speedster. He’s also by far the most realistic one.
Invincibles' creator once said Mark could easily beat superman. That is also the moment when i realized you couldn't take him or the fans defending it seriously.
In fairness, Superman was "only" obscenely powerful when the Invincible comic came out, and it's only in recent years that his feats have grown to defeating omniversal beings, lifting books with infinite mass, and whistling to prevent the destruction of the multiverse from entropy itself.
@@roguebarbarian9133 He accidentally sneezed multiple planets out of orbit in one of his early comics. In fact, I'd say most of his craziest feats are from those early ones.
And on the other hand mark gets consistently beaten close to death by people who superman could incapacitate in an instant.
@@TimeyWimey. Well Superman suffers from poor writing and inconsistency as well. I would say, that writers just butcher him
@@Монс-й1ь well, he's a character that has existed for decades (15 years shy of a century) so of course he's not going to be consistent (his original writers died a couple decades ago). And because of that there are plenty of writers who don't understand what the character represents and end up writing him poorly.
Author statements can be easily dismissed if they involve anything along the lines of “my character is stronger than this other character I do not own”.
The character you wrote is stronger? Then prove it, make them do something impressive, don’t just claim they’re more powerful than works you don’t own the rights to.
I kinda wish I said something stupid so I could get flamed in your video. Also, Wonder Woman belongs in the F- tier because she has speed react that she forgets about randomly.
Just say it, then.
@@quangamershyguyyz7166 OPPA GANGNAM STYLE
Based
I had a counterpoint to the dash thumbtack scene. Do you think it simply looks that way because of the time period/ technology a place like a public school would have? I know the incredibles is fiction but it clearly does have a style and setting that's pretty contemporary. I don't know security camera tech at all so maybe i'm wrong, and i don't think they confirm how fast dash is in the film (i say this because you refer to him as being around maybe 200 mph multiple times; and like where is the source for that if it isn't just a random number.) But my point is maybe the camera can't really process or capture his level of speed given the time period or technology? It is being shown on an old CRT television too afterall.
"But then they give him cocaine." Is the best follow-up for anything
A way to write a godlike speedster that actually makes sense is to make them insane and unable to live alongside people; they perceive time hundreds of times slower than everyone else. How do they understand what people are saying? why should they care what's going on in the world? They have centuries to figure it out from their perspective? How would they stay sane, living essentially thousands if not millions of years with no one else being able to live at the same pace as them?
i think the reason A-train missed atack from Kimiko is because he wast expecting her dealing any damage to him. but if he knew that shes super human then yeah its dumb
hearing you mention Oscar's Oasis just unlocked a core memory in my mind that was buried for years wtf. I'm not a furry(thank god) but the fox character made me feel things as a kid 💀
Me too ong..
Nostalgia just unlocked in my brain
You should talk about lore accurate kirby's speed and wherther it works in the game's perspective or not. As they hove really crazy speed stats for kirby.
Btw, love you content.
Interesting video, i never saw that Red Rush inconsistency, the scene had so much going on, that i just forgot about the rest when i watched for the first time lol.
New here and I like the shit talking, it’s cool to see someone be real in today’s world. Don’t change bro
The fact that so many ppl commented without logic makes me fear for the future
10:00
though i can see potential issue with this thumb tack scene, i can see some level of justification in it.
it doesn't necessarily have to be speed react to justify him being able to pull this off, as the action is relatively simple, and premeditated.
all he has to do is run up, plop the object down (preferably laying the right way up but depending on the tact that may be made easier) then run back down
He wasn't doing anything before doing it, there was nothing else he had to focus on.
He could've simply just been rehearsing how he'd do it in his head as he waited for the right moment to do it.
It was the only thing he had to focus on.
It's like throwing a punch, you don't necessarily need to think through the whole action of closing your hand into a fist while it's moving forward twords your target in response to what your target is doing.
you just make a fist and punch all in one movemnt
That’s what I always imagined it as. And that would apply to other speedsters too, if it’s not specified whether they have speed react, I always thought that they just knew what they wanted to do at normal speed, and the powers took over from there. That’s just a head canon though, I’m not saying it’s fact.(unlike some other comments)
its one thing to throw a punch without thinking about it, but getting up from a chair, moving so you dont just hit your knees against the bench (i dont know if thats the right word for it tbh), moving a specific distance, precisely placing a thumbtack in the teachers chair and going back the same way in less time than a camera can catch without speed react? i dont think so.
@@rockargen9591 it's a lot more believable then pulling off something like that in a high stress environment, like if someone is trying to murder you.
Which is why he wasn't able to pull off the same stunt when he was actually in battle
As a sonic fan, I agree with where you placed him and basically everyone else. I am curious how you'd rank other versions of Sonic (especially when he is subject to game mechanics). I don't think you should though, b/c I don't want to see other intelligent beings suffer lol.
Especially the comic and tv show versions (they go from merely supersonic to faster than light)
@@mrme.484 I feel he will rank comic sonic as an F, maybe a D depending upon which comic continuity.
TV sonic definitely would be lower unless it's From adventures (which is a gag show) or SaTaM. I think SatAM could get away with a C ircc.
Game Sonic in classic era would seem more like an S, while modern sonic might maybe squeak out a D or low C. Namely because cutscenes are inconsistent.
I skipped to the end and got so confused to why Lord Farquaad, A Squirrel, and an Egg got to S-Tier.
This is the funniest video that stays 100% logical that I've ever seen
Also you'd be a good comic writer
In the case of read rush I think you could explain it as omni man used reflect speed instead of perception speed to catch him. Which could be close enough to red rushes perception speed to catch him off guard.
Metro man is slower than the speed of light
When he opened the door. The light came in before he could’ve get out
For Invincible: When Omni Man, puts Mark through a train. Mark tries to punch him, using his speed omni man goes behind him and puts him in the ground bouncing Mark back up, watching mark go back up in slow motion. so maybe he does have super speed, or at least shown in that part.
But that means Omni man has super speed and doesn’t use it. So poor writing again😢
Also more Critique on writing vids plz.💪
Is that not in the show? In the comics he uses super speed all the time to save civilians and comes back almost instantly.
Yo my first time seeing ur video. U had me rotflmao. Love the sarcasm. Good points to
Thought my boy Sonic would have made it farther up the tier list, but you're right, him being able to move in bullet time without Chaos Control or Shara's Time Break breaks the consistency of the character. Was a fun scene but he should've just fought them in real time like game Sonic would, cause even in real time Sonic/and adult version of Dash could easily take out a room of avergae grown men. Movie Sonic isn't as strong as games Sonic even with his bullet time scene feat, but consistency wise the game version works because the entire world is balanced around him. Many of his enemies and rivals are also speedsters and his villain is a genius who can create all manner of machine to counter Sonic and his weaknesses. Besides potentially Archie Sonic (by far the strongest version of Sonic), Movie Sonic is the only version who can move in bullet time, but odly enough, the speeds he moves at in the movie in real-time scenes aren't any faster than Sonic's normal jogging speed in the games, who at the start of his career couls easily run on water for example.
You're tierlist placement is fair. I still enjoy the Sonic films and games despite their writting hiccups (except Forces and parts of Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06). Ain't nothing wrong with enjoying something that's not very well writtern as that one person said, I come to Sonci stories for fun, heartfelt, or cool interactions between characters. And the movies have given me that for the most part.
Guys thanks for watching. And double thanks for 13k subs.
I'm probably gonna take like a 2 week break with back to back games coming out that I wanna play. We got Halo Forge AI (900 years in the making), Spider-Man 2, UFC 5, Alien Hominid Invasion, and then maybe someone releases another jankey garbage ass flash unreal engine ass tech demo. But we'll see
Bro Belal so disliked even in this random video i see him getting roasted haha.
"he gonna need 3 more wins for a title shot"-rsg 2 jk
@@streetplaya23 i'm gonna be honest I don't know who this "belal" guy is but I do think that one guy from that one fight, can't remember much about it, deserves a title shot. I actually remember him almost losing his eye to Leon Scott. Leon do be dodging the rematch
@@RSG200 oh i see. lol. i look forward to seeing this mysterious arab lookin dude's face in future videos XD
@@RSG200You missed Smallville Kal-El/Clark Kent who I think was consistent.
A tier
The only consistent speedster it's us when we run to the bathroom after taco bell
Congrats on your subs, keep it up
Lol you cant just call one punch man “less skilled writters”
Big disrespect on Sonic ngl, mentioning defeats for others and not for sonic. Only got hit by robotnik in his sonic speed juiced jet and by another speedster. Easy S tier
Great list, cant believe that i only found you channel now. Agree with everything except for Ben 10, I figured he'd be in C tier since he's just a kid learning what he can do. Though later on with Ben 10,000 (Adult Ben from OG show) we see him basically perfect that alien and it become his most used one, I believe, dont quote me on that though since its been like 10 years since last I saw that episode.