I totally agree. Also, everyone always says how we never got a Man Of Steel 2, but we did. It's called Batman V Superman and it was essentially a Batman film with Superman as a supporting role. Not good planning.
@@rasenganmaster101 anything can be made to succeed. It’s about allowing it the room to breathe. Once you start messing with a creative vision of a film franchise, changing ALL the characters in the process, you will DESTROY any narrative cohesion. Case in point, the DCAU was dark and gritty and it was AWESOME. They did a GREAT job adapting the NEW 52 comic book aesthetic. WB didn’t go “hey, why doesn’t Batman dance anymore? Let’s make it all silly and goofy.”
@@HermosaFeCatolica zach snyder's universe should've never been accepted let alone given time to breath like it was. Zach snyder is a weirdo who literally said he DOES not like heroes, he only wants to destroy them, deconstruct them and never build them up. He has said all of this, u can look it up, hell he said he'd have batman be raped in prison if he made a batman film, he should have NEVER been allowed near DC
@@HermosaFeCatolica The difference is the DCAMU was actually well written. The worst DCAMU film is better than Snyder's films. The DCAU however is peak superhero content. Paul Dini is the goat. Superman: The Animated Series and Batman: The Animates Series solo any live action Batman and Superman film.
The biggest difference between feige and snyder that DC and Warner bros ignored is that Feige is a big comics fan, while snyder is a man who hates comics
such misinformation 😂 my take is that zack was overly fond of the dark tone originating from the TDK trilogy, which the WB execs blindly agreed to carry over to the DCEU
Snyder’s a fan of comics, but not the mainline stuff, he likes the darker elseworld material like Dark Knight returns, which is a terrible choice to base your mainline Batman off of
All of that is wrong. Christopher Nolan had an idea for a Superman movie in the same tone as the darknight trilogy. Later, Zack Snyder was hired for the job.
@@domenica3639yeah, I’m not denying that WB executives are also to blame, but as it’s shown in this video, zach is 100% part of the reason this universe didn’t work; (if he wasn’t essentially fired for fucking up the launch, it ALSO would not have worked under his guidance)
choosing Zach Snyder; someone who hates superheroes to oversee the world of the most quentisential and iconic superheroes who all represent hope and doing the nice thing was such dumb move
Snyder doesn't hate superheroes...that's a fucking stupid thing to say. ‘I Love Superheroes. I Also Think They’re the Dumbest Things That Ever Existed.’ - James Gunn
@@nikgrid "I love superheroes. I also think they're the dumbest things that have ever existed." He elaborated on this sentiment, acknowledging the inherent absurdity of the genre while also expressing his deep affection for it. Gunn's approach to superhero narratives often involves balancing genuine admiration with a recognition of their more ludicrous aspects, allowing him to create stories that are both heartfelt and self-aware. You tried, though.
Saying the Snyder cut of Justice League is “far better” than the theatrical cut is a bit like saying tuberculosis is far better then being trapped in a burning vehicle…
I been watching Joss Whedon movies and shows for a while. It seems to me he's only truly successful when he has control of a project from the very beginning. Asking him to come in and fix a broken movie doesn't work as well. Same deal with Ron Howard and Star Wars.
It's more like calling a surgeon while the patient is cut open and ask him to undo what the previous surgeon started without killing the patient. Well... it failed. It would be interesting to know why because Whedon is used to save doomed projects
I know studio executives meddling is a tale as old as Hollywoodland itself, but this current batch is something else. I can't even remember the last time I went to the theater, because everything feels so assembly line now, not legitimate artistic visions someone had. Hopefully they'll at least realize that The Rock is no longer the draw he once was (also Jack Black).
I'm not really a batman fan but if I was in charge for who gets movies even I'd have a batman movie out by 2015 or 2016 and ofcourse a man of steel sequel by 16 as well as other stand alone films for others
Suspect #1 has to be Walter Hamada and the rest of the top executives at WB for their short-sighted course corrections, comprimising art for financial incentives, and having no clear coherent vision for their universe... Not much better now with David Zaslav, but at least Gunn has autonomy over the DC side of the studio.
Whats wild is that Nolan's The Dark Knight came out the same summer as Iron Man. DC could have capitalized on its success and still had their more gritty take on the universe.
Chistopher Nolan had no interest in doing so. Bale is loyal to the artist, so he swore never to join without Nolan. This means that it's impossible to link the darker Nolan take, as he is the only person who can make a Nolan film, for good or ill. Oddly, he was fine handing the reins to Zack Snyder, and he was the reason that the actual story of Man of Steel made any sense. When you give Zack too much directorial control, he starts making hackneyed decisions, rather than logical/plot-dependent ones. They stroke his ego, instead.
Gunn said peacemaker S1 is entirely canon except for the justice league scene it’s pretty simple I don’t know what’s difficult, as for suicide squad 2 it’s loosely canon and only snip bits will be taken into canon Also I will defend blue beetle it was good review wise but I think it was poor marketing and covid that made it lose profit
Yeah I don’t think it’ll matter long into the dcu but I’m still curious to see how they try to explain scrapping things like James has said would happen in season 2.
I think the problem here is the association, rather than the matter of what’s canon or not. Both TSS and Peacemaker were done for the DCEU, not the DCU, and thus the general audience will see it this way, so Gunn still wanting (justifiably so, let’s be real here) to keep them in the canon because they are his babies, kinda makes for an unnecessary risk of confusion for the general audience, seems it’s looking like everything will be rebooted except those properties. Don’t get me wrong, I also don’t think it is that difficult to understand and Creature Commandos so far has handled the topic as well as it can, but I do see why this can be a risk for Gunn’s DCU, specially seems it looks like, and let’s be honest here, a mere whim from Gunn now that he is in charge.
Covid? By August of 2023 the world was pretty well LONG since open. Stop making covid excuses for awful and lame movies. If the film had come out just one year earlier I could have maybe used that as an excuse. By August of 2023, NOPE.
I wouldn't say James Gunn killed the DCEU. It was already long since dead. James Gunn just buried it. I loved Man of Steel, flawed as it was, and I even love certain aspects of BvS, though the film as a whole is a total mess. I used to ardently defend Zack Snyder, but I've realized he's a testosterone-feuled edge-lord with no appreciation for what makes superheroes heroic. However, I credit David Goyer with pretty much everything I love about his movies, especially Man of Steel, which was already written before Zack came on board, and was frankly more Christopher Nolan's story than Zack's. Like you said, his grand mythological take on the superhero genre that really took itself seriously had a lot of potential, the scripts just never reached that potential.
The fact you called him an “edgelord” proves you were never a “defender” and clearly have no clue wtf you’re talking about. It’s ironic you complain about Zack and then turn around and praise goyer, when the scripts and the characters you’re saying Zack got wrong was literally GOYERS take🤦🏽♂️
@bofawhatsbofa4593 Look, I really appreciated the themes that the stories tried, and often failed, to tackle in their approaches to the characters. There are definitely things that the movies nailed, and before I really knew anything about Zack Snyder behind the scenes, I would argue that he must understand the characters better than we give him credit for. But every time I've heard him in an interview such as the ones features in this video, he's just gone on about how he loves tearing heroes down, how his heroes aren't aspirational characters and those who think they should be are "in a ****ing dream world," and owning choices like having Batman murder with no better defense than that he thinks it's cooler that way. He's made it clear he's never understood or loved the characters for what they stand for, and so I can't defend him like I used to. I admit that I don't know for sure what is fair to credit to whom, and I'm largely speculating as to who is responsible for how much of the story, but looking at Zack's filmography shows how dumb his stories get when he has more creative control, so I have a hard time believing that the more complex plots and insightful character moments I appreciate so much in his movies were written by him. As far as you arguing that the things I hate are Goyer's fault as well, you're not entirely wrong, though the writing of BvS was a mess, as Chris Terrio and David Goyer went back and forth as lead writers and had very different visions and styles, not to mention WB pushing them to rush into Justice League and Zack making sure it went his direction. So we can't tell for sure what all went on behind the scenes, but from what we know it seems likely that the elements of the story I loved were Goyer's influence, held back by his inability to just tell a complete story on his own.
@@JaxonPham man of steel’s Superman was hopeful and colorful and made me sing to the heavens with adulation and glee #RestoreTheDookieVerse #RestoreTheFlopVerse 😀 lol
Yeah It’ll be interesting to see how the two rival now as I think they’re on what feels like equal ground. (Marvel feels messy and dc feels fresh, dc is only now introducing characters, while marvel still has so many developed) honestly dc may have the upper hand of being a clean slate.
DCEU should have started with a Superman and Wonder Woman led JUSTICE LEAGUE film with smaller characters (i.e., Green Arrow, Huntress, Power Girl, etc). Not the one-film-at-time approach MCU was doing.
Zack Synder is the worst to ever do it in this genre. He literally said "You want me to do a superman Movie? Ok, then Superman's my enemy. I'm not going to make him interesting" Good GOD he was the absolute WORST. I'm so glad he's gone from these characters.
Bro your a small channel and just uploaded this. This a good video man. It’s crazy how in like 3 years flat the DCEU went downhill 2013-2016 MOS to SS it’s crazy we saw the steps to what was gonna happen years ago and watched it fall
I went to watch BvS twice in theaters. In both screenings I heard people laugh and say WTF when that scene happened. I knew at that point, the DCEU was dead on arrival and was never, ever gonna reach the point of where the MCU was at that point (pre Endgame). Snyder did a decent job with MoS but he should have never made BvS. WB should have gotten someone else to make that movie. They definitely shouldn't have got him to come back to make JL after the disastrous response BvS got.
It died the second they wanted Man of Steel to be their first film in their universe. The final nail in the coffin was writing the main universe Batman as a serial killer. Everything after that was beating a dead horse that didn’t even pass the starting line
As far as the "soft cannon" new DCU thing goes, TSS and Peacemaker events happened but the way they happened is still unknown. Unless we are told something happened, it didn't. We don't know if Harley Quinn worked with Peacemaker or that Boomerang is dead in the DCU, all we know so far is that Rick Flag died in Corto Maltese and that Economose hurt his leg fighting the butterflies
@@JaxonPhammy guess is it’ll start in the original DCEU and then we’ll pan out of that universe and go to a nearby one where similar events have gone down, we see the ending of season 1 again but this time the Justice League aren’t there
Goddamn i knew it was gonna be the WB PRODUCERS You had me with the suspect setup. I absolutely loved the structure of this video, you are going to blow up big time if you keep this level of writing in future videos. Kudos!
I’ve always thought that a hilarious sitcom premise could be a bunch of Hollywood executives fumbling at every turn trying to make a cinematic universe😂
The producers did kill it but in the sense that they gave the Feige role to Zach Snyder in the first place. A man whose sensibilities were woefully inadequate to be the creative head of the DC universe. A man with no understanding or caring about what made the characters great. An edgelord who wanted to foist his “vision” on the masses. I knew it would underperform as soon as I found out that he was hired. And so the inevitable happened. The producers were also to blame for not recognizing this and scrapping it after BVS.
I love this video, soo well made and even you as a host for this essay were great, I could sense the immense thought and passion put into this project. Well done buddy, you've just earned yourself a fan & subscriber.
I think it’s worth remembering (not that I disagree with any of this) that all of the “DCEU sucks/failed” discourse tends to kind of frame things as though the MCU has been a rousing success across the board, or that it’s doing particularly well and in a healthy spot at the moment, none of which is true. In fact I would argue that by 2024/2025 I wouldn’t say that one has really beat out the other, the way that I could more confidently say that in like 2017. Disney/Marvel have burned through a lot of the goodwill accrued pre-Endgame.
Peacemaker and the Suicide Squad are basically Judy Dench in the Bond franchise: the one element that inexplicably survives the hard reboot and you should just not think too hard about how that makes any kind of sense whatsoever.
I read somewhere that SnyderBots were 12% or 22% of the fanbase. That’s INSANE. Twitter is NOT real, you guys. Just like at who became president. The louder the voices (social media) does not equate to HIGHER consensus (2024 presidential election). Sometimes, it’s just HOT AIR 😀
@@sakurahex4998i think there won't be a Martha in his DCU's Superman. Snyder really did a number on her. Seems Snyder WAS the guy who killed (badly hurt Superman's voice) Marthaaa... 😂
Yup. And I don’t get how he STILL has defenders after his failures and being quoted pretty much saying as much. Like I get if you like his style (I don’t know how anyone could for DC movies but I recognize that some do). What I don’t understand is the inability to realize that maybe a bubble of his fans liked the DCEU but no one else did.
Snyder should STILL be able to direct DARK KNIGHT RETURNS part 1 and 2 Elseworlds’ project. Maybe they can tell the DARK KNIGHT RETURNS-universe: Strikes Again, Master Race, etc. 😊
Snyder's perverse vision of these characters is why it failed. The execs meddling didn't help but Snyder's hatred for the original characters is why his films didn't connect with large audiences. Even after all this well documented terrible history. Some people still want to go back to that trash.
Zack Snyder is the main villain because you can't set the foundation of a film franchise this terribly and then expect someone to somehow completely rearrange that he laid so many Easter eggs and so many things that were going nowhere and he threw them in there just cuz he thought they were cool. Zack Snyder is proven to be an awful filmmaker with his crappy army of the Dead crappy rebel Moon movies and everyone finally sees that he has no clear direction or idea of what he's doing. And when you start the foundation of anything you're doing that poorly everything after it gets a pass because they're trying to make up for the crap that came and laid this broken foundation
It's not him. Its still the Executives. Snyder is great when he is not fully in power. People may not like MOS but I love that movie. And guess who's producing? Christopher Nolan. And thanks to that MOS is a great movie. They had Nolan to produce,Snyder to direct,Goyer and Nolan to write the story. Then instead of making a batman movie or a second superman movie (because they stated that superman in MOS will eventually become the way you know it and love but he was still not experienced and had to learn from his mistakes) the studio just wanted to hype the fans and wanted BVS to be made instead of a sequel or a standalone movie. I hated BVS,it felt rushed and not necessary and the studio actually interfered by bringing in a new writer and ditched Goyer hence the movie was rewritten and we got that stinker. And from there WB ditched anything from Nolan,Snyder and anything to do with that universe because marvel was making billions and all they got was criticism. I'm pretty sure if they didn't have cold feets those movies would've made money,they had a fan base plus with time people got bored of the marvel formula that's why stuff like the boys is loved. So eventually people would've taken the DCEU as an alternative as it could've been different. Snyder is not responsible however he is an awful filmaker when he's not checked his recent movies are fully produced, directed,written and even shot by him... that's his biggest weakness.
Warner Brothers and Zack Snyder both destroyed the DCEU. Snyder shouldn't be involved with characters like Batman and Superman. As for Warner Brothers well they destroy everything. They are the reason DC is an absolute joke these days. DC deserved better than the DCEU.
@@aaronmiles2802 It's crazy people want Snyder back when he was part of the problem. His take on the DC Universe failed to connect with audiences. James Gunn is perfect for DC because both critics and audiences love him.
This analysis was excellent! It was detailed and well prepared! I totally agree with all the points. Only just replace 'apathy' at the end with 'greed'. It was the WB producers who wanted a quick big success, instead of small gains.
3:00 Fun fact: Nolan actually advised Snyder against making the movie too grim and against Superman ending Zoe because even he understood that a Superman film should be bright and hopeful but Snyder ignored him.
The new Superman trailer genuinely looks incredible, and I'm excited to see what James Gunn is cooking up. Now more than ever is the time for WB and DC to really kick themselves into gear and get things on track.
I'm not gonna lie, the moment I heard Jason Momoa auditioned as Batman, I immediately imagined momoa as Thomas Wayne Batman. I think Momoa can pull off that crazy look and intimidating aura and the story will likely be Momoa acting as Batman without telling us that he's not bruce battling a female joker and only be revealed at the end where the flash zaps through batcave trying to research how to go back home and was instantly trapped because he got distracted by the picture Batman, Joker, and Bruce in one frame.
Great commentary. Please do a video and thoughts about the new DCU and how you are feeling so far about it with James Gunn. Also please do a video of MCU and its trajectory. I think you can cover it great.
in my opinion suicide squad was the point where potential was high, but didn't deliver - its been slowly dying since then. but batman v superman was also 50/50 as to whether the franxhise was dead in the water.
Backing? Bro they gave 3 of the most iconic characters OF ALL TIME and he fuked it up, he wasnt like Sam Raimi not understanding the character like Venom, he understood them but REFUSED to portrayed them properly.
bruh there were other options beyond: 1. Give dc to guy that doesn’t give a fuck about superheroes 2. Endlessly fumble at every turn without a plan or vision
I think it stems down to Zack Snyder with the previous wb regime messing things up at the end. He never really understood the characters and wb gave him way too much control. Also the constant flops didnt help either.
from what I know the old DCEU is still part of the DCU but Gunn said like they are Elseworld. Probably the reason why he called it DCU and not new DCEU because to him, all the past shows, games, and DCEU is still canon. It's just that the new DCU is the new canon that they will focus.
I hold Warner Bros. solely responsible for the downfall of the DCEU. Marvel’s carefully planned ten-year strategy set a high bar for success, and instead of crafting their own vision, WB rushed to compete. In their haste, they threw together elements that didn’t work well together. Things worsened when the leader of their new direction faced a personal tragedy, prompting WB to make even more impulsive decisions, further losing their way. By that point, they were already mired in a web of chaos and drama.
As a long-time fan of the Golden, Silver, Bronze and Modern DC line of comics, it was truly remarkable and endlessly baffling how many bad decisions went into the DCEU. It was embarrassing and put me into the role of Superman apologist, trying to convince people how great Superman was that had only seen the DCEU films. IMO, the DCEU couldn't die fast enough and am cautiously optimistic for Gunn's take.
Am not understanding one thing. In the scene wheree superman tells "Save Martha" to Batman. Why it has become a troll material. If we got a Batman story it would be much explainable. Even though what actually that scene represents. iInthat movie batman has lost robin which was tragic loss to him so he became uncontrollable . he was blamed himself for the death of robin. he was in a confused and depressed state. when he saw superman fighting zod. during the fight. one of his employee died. which made him transfer all his anger towards superman. when we come to this actual scene. batman is not even tried to listen. His main aim is to kill superman. when superman said save Martha. it actually hit batman with his tragic memories. if we see batman aka bruce wayne he blames himself for not saving his parents. when superman said save Martha. it suddenly hits batman. That is what am understanding as per the scene. if we got batman movie before bvs it will explains a lot. but still if we see from batman view we can able to understand it. PS: At first even I did not like this man of steel, bvs. later part I really understood what synder vision. he wants to make an injustice movie. wanted to create a different tone of superhero. even though it is not justified to comics. he wanted to be entirely different from marvel. Now, if we see who all copied injustice version of superman like homelander or invincible they are very successful. And I think that in future james gunn also having a plan to make injustice movie.
The comments blaming Snyder proves they know absolutely nothing 😂 Should have let Snyder cook. HE was the guy who brought in money and interests, the moment he wss gone, WB fumbled so hard they had a 7 flopped movie streak 😂😂😂😂😂😂 The old WB executives are the ones to blame. Look at Marvel, their first two movies: The Incredible Hulk and Iron Man 1 are both not-so-big earners with 280$ mil and 580$ mil, yet the cinematic universe was given time to grow.
39:46 I would add to this that Marvel seems to be working on their own cinematic reboot with Doomsday/Secret Wars, although both of those movies are a long time away
You have missed a lot of the other suspects WB went through 3 Regime changes, Most notably AT&Ts Ann Sarnoff who actually DID NOT WANT CAVIL back. Kevin Tsujihara who flip-flopped constantly on the direction of these films, Jon Peters, Charles Roven and Walter Hamada, Everyones is quick to blame Gunn but these are the real pullers of the strings here.
Fans always say if Snyder had the creative freedom and support from WB, he would make a great DC universe on screen, but he already had his chance to establish DC in film properly and Man Of Steel was divisive, you can't make a profitable and enjoyable DC universe when you try to achieve a personal vision, excluding all the fans that disagree, iron man wasn't about adapting a specific vision but making a quality story embodying 40+ years of history
2 Things killed the DCU 1. Chasing Marvel; which also killed Sony's extended Spiderman Universe and the Universal Monster-verse 2. Going dark; You don't go dark with heroes post 9/11. You can have defeat, you can have a hero at their lowest point but miserable characters won't work. It's the reason why WW was the only success story DC had, they didn't betray her story like that did Batman and Superman to make them "edgy" .
Why don't/can't/shouldn't you don't go dark with heroes post 9/11? Or is that just a phrase I'm unfamiliar with? This is a genuine question, not trying to come off as rude or insensitive or anything.
Seriously though, WATCHMEN was a GREAT film. The source material was gritty and dark on its own. Snyder did an impeccable job showing that to us. This is arguably his BEST film ever.
When I was a kid in Nigeria, I used to watch the DCAU shows by Bruce Timm and Paul Dini. I hoped the DCEU would simply use that as a template for their movies but they refused for some reason I will never understand🤔 Why?! It had universal appeal for casuals and comic book fans
DC should have NEVER tried to copy MCU with one-film-at-a-time approach. That’s cool for MARVEL because nobody KNOWS any of these characters. What is a Hawkeye? What is a Black Widow? Everybody KNOWS DC already, for the most part. Instead, DC should have just had a Superman/Wonder woman led JUSTICE LEAGUE film, with smaller characters (i.e., Green Arrow, Plastic Man, Huntress, Power Girl, etc). With a small focus, it would have succeeded and allowed for spin-offs out of it. Batman could have slowly been introduced as a detective investigating the JUSTICE LEAGUE characters, whilst partaking in his OWN adventures, only for Vandal Savage to rob his list and …. JUSTICE LEAGUE 3: TOWER OF BABEL 😊
Great video. Imo, id blame all. I read Green Lantern was supposed to kick off a shared universe but i didnt think that. I read Routh's Clark Kent from Superman Returns was gonna appear but didn't and i don't remember seeing any hint of other DC heroes in it so i ultimately thought of it as another solo franchise like Batman & Superman primarily to test the waters. But again i think blame goes all around.
It goes to show really how skewed different people's perspectives are on comics and possibly how much they've forgotten what stuff was like back in the "good old days". Marvel...is relatable. It's a grounded believable universe with people who inherit one or two generic powers or attain abilities and yet still have to deal with their human problems. Their families, their friends, their vices. They're people who still can't get over their people level problems and that's what most of their stories are really about. A lot of Marvel stories still work if you remove the super powers. DC...is aspirational. It's a universe that uses characters with incredible powers and worlds, allies, villains and problems related to those powers to tell stories about how we can all strive to become better people. Every well written character is so unique that they live in their own themed world and deal with problems unique to their world and power set. DC, when done right, tells stories the can only be told with superpowers. People ASPIRE to be Superman or Batman or Wonder Woman. Nobody aspires to be the Hulk or Thor or even Iron Man. Marvel's heroes have problems we can relate to, but DC shows us how we would like to live our lives for the better. To think beyond ourselves. Even the Avengers works cinematically because of how grounded and generic and largely unimportant the powers are for the stories. In the MCU everyone is just on a first name basis; it's easy to knit all that together into a cohesive world. The Justice League, by comparison, is a clown car accident that makes no sense because DC storytelling isn't about people with generic powers. It's a world where Ancient Greek gods, Gotham City and Atlantis all have to exist together when they weren't designed to do that. Those places and characters support broader themes that work amazingly as storytelling devices but don't create a cohesive world. It's for this reason why a Silver Age approach is actually better for DC. NOT a grounded world, but rather one from of insane possibilities that give way to more fun storytelling. That's the fun of DC beyond its aspirational qualities: if you're reading a story with Krypto and Plastic Man and Dead Man and talking Gorillas, you will absolutely read a story unlike anything you've ever read before. And great writers can turn those stories into profound experiences. Like how Moore turned Supermans birthday party into a touching story about the life he lost when he was sent away from Krypton for instance. Marvel is relatable, but DC is aspirational. Marvel tells us stories we are familiar with in our world but DC let's us consider incredible possibilities of the human experience.
I will always blame the wb exectives who laughed paul dini (one of the architects of the dcau) out of a meeting. Only to come groveling back to him after man of steel failed.
Now, james gunn has created comic justfied superman. but we all forget that he was the one who humiliated entire justice league characters in the peacemaker tv series. as per that series, justice league involvement is not even necessary. but he wanted to humiliate the character. And studio at first offered him to direct superman movie only. but he denied. His superman trailer looks good and promising. And his universe also looks very good. but am praying to god that warner bros studio should not interrupt even anyone project fails.
Maybe Henry Cavil is hard to work with. He seems to have never heard the saying "kill your darlings," and takes himself and the characters he plays way too seriously
Overall WB killed it. They had a good run prior to Marvel with Superman, Batman and the Dark Knight series. They then hired Snyder knowing what his vision was and that he was not a very director.
Marvel for better or worse had one thing: A plan WB didn't have one and wanted Avengers numbers as quickly as possible without the world building aspect in the original DCU run. If you have a cinematic universe at your disposal for the love of god seek the world building aspect first and foremost. Who cares about "who gets first place in Box Office". Nothing will come of it if you can't or rather won't adhere to simple and basic principles, rules of engagement when comes to running a cinematic universe If this second DCU run flops. That's it. It's game over, WB can't bounce back and/or can't do another run; no one will have the stomach nor the time to give it a third chance
3 Harley, 2 Wonder Woman, 1 Superman, and 0 Batman movies is absolutely absurd as a DC film schedule.
Well Batman did morpth into Matt Reeves'The Batman so you could count it as 1.
If an ensemble film with Harley means a Harley film, then Batman also had 3
@@Silas_Kowso did superman and wonder woman had 4
@@akwilson1676nope wasn’t the DCEU
I totally agree. Also, everyone always says how we never got a Man Of Steel 2, but we did. It's called Batman V Superman and it was essentially a Batman film with Superman as a supporting role.
Not good planning.
The real murderer is WB’s incompetence
ABSOLUTELY. #SnyderVerse (2013-2018) made MORE money than anything after 2018.
Hopefully they don’t screw over Gunn’s Superman.
@@HermosaFeCatolica snyderverse was a failure man, WB biggest mistake was zach snyder period
@@rasenganmaster101 anything can be made to succeed. It’s about allowing it the room to breathe. Once you start messing with a creative vision of a film franchise, changing ALL the characters in the process, you will DESTROY any narrative cohesion.
Case in point, the DCAU was dark and gritty and it was AWESOME. They did a GREAT job adapting the NEW 52 comic book aesthetic.
WB didn’t go “hey, why doesn’t Batman dance anymore? Let’s make it all silly and goofy.”
@@HermosaFeCatolica zach snyder's universe should've never been accepted let alone given time to breath like it was. Zach snyder is a weirdo who literally said he DOES not like heroes, he only wants to destroy them, deconstruct them and never build them up. He has said all of this, u can look it up, hell he said he'd have batman be raped in prison if he made a batman film, he should have NEVER been allowed near DC
@@HermosaFeCatolica The difference is the DCAMU was actually well written. The worst DCAMU film is better than Snyder's films. The DCAU however is peak superhero content. Paul Dini is the goat. Superman: The Animated Series and Batman: The Animates Series solo any live action Batman and Superman film.
The biggest difference between feige and snyder that DC and Warner bros ignored is that
Feige is a big comics fan, while snyder is a man who hates comics
That's not true at all.
such misinformation 😂 my take is that zack was overly fond of the dark tone originating from the TDK trilogy, which the WB execs blindly agreed to carry over to the DCEU
Snyder’s a fan of comics, but not the mainline stuff, he likes the darker elseworld material like Dark Knight returns, which is a terrible choice to base your mainline Batman off of
All of that is wrong. Christopher Nolan had an idea for a Superman movie in the same tone as the darknight trilogy. Later, Zack Snyder was hired for the job.
@@hotnoodles2005 okay? And? Just because nolan had an idea doesn't mean it had to be good
The answer to this question is both Zack Snyder and the old guard WB executives.
Yeahhhhh no. That would be Geoff and Walter Hamada. 🤦🏽♂️ good try though
@@bofawhatsbofa4593did you not watch the video??😭 Snyder shot dc in both feet before it even had a chance
@@JaxonPhamAnd who pray tell gave Snyder the ammo to shoot DC's feet?
@@domenica3639yeah, I’m not denying that WB executives are also to blame, but as it’s shown in this video, zach is 100% part of the reason this universe didn’t work; (if he wasn’t essentially fired for fucking up the launch, it ALSO would not have worked under his guidance)
That’s a bingo!
choosing Zach Snyder; someone who hates superheroes to oversee the world of the most quentisential and iconic superheroes who all represent hope and doing the nice thing was such dumb move
Snyder doesn't hate superheroes...that's a fucking stupid thing to say. ‘I Love Superheroes. I Also Think They’re the Dumbest Things That Ever Existed.’ - James Gunn
@@nikgrid "I love superheroes. I also think they're the dumbest things that have ever existed."
He elaborated on this sentiment, acknowledging the inherent absurdity of the genre while also expressing his deep affection for it. Gunn's approach to superhero narratives often involves balancing genuine admiration with a recognition of their more ludicrous aspects, allowing him to create stories that are both heartfelt and self-aware.
You tried, though.
To add to the Ezra Miller section: he is now part of the Wikipedia article "List of messiah claimants" XD
Saying the Snyder cut of Justice League is “far better” than the theatrical cut is a bit like saying tuberculosis is far better then being trapped in a burning vehicle…
Calling Joss Whedon was like calling a Dentist to finish a surgery 'cause bro was just that good with teeth
I been watching Joss Whedon movies and shows for a while. It seems to me he's only truly successful when he has control of a project from the very beginning. Asking him to come in and fix a broken movie doesn't work as well. Same deal with Ron Howard and Star Wars.
It's more like calling a surgeon while the patient is cut open and ask him to undo what the previous surgeon started without killing the patient. Well... it failed. It would be interesting to know why because Whedon is used to save doomed projects
I know studio executives meddling is a tale as old as Hollywoodland itself, but this current batch is something else. I can't even remember the last time I went to the theater, because everything feels so assembly line now, not legitimate artistic visions someone had.
Hopefully they'll at least realize that The Rock is no longer the draw he once was (also Jack Black).
Wow. Had never seen that clip where Zack reacted to the idea of making a Superman film before. Tells you everything you need to know.
Really clever format for this video.
The fact that there were no Batman movie, 1 Superman movie, and most of the movies sucking is what killed it.
I'm not really a batman fan but if I was in charge for who gets movies even I'd have a batman movie out by 2015 or 2016 and ofcourse a man of steel sequel by 16 as well as other stand alone films for others
Suspect #1 has to be Walter Hamada and the rest of the top executives at WB for their short-sighted course corrections, comprimising art for financial incentives, and having no clear coherent vision for their universe... Not much better now with David Zaslav, but at least Gunn has autonomy over the DC side of the studio.
Whats wild is that Nolan's The Dark Knight came out the same summer as Iron Man.
DC could have capitalized on its success and still had their more gritty take on the universe.
Sad
They did try, apparently they tried getting Bale back for BvS but he refused
It's a shame that Christopher Nolan hated the idea of featuring other heroes into the dark knight.
@@SpervoGlad Nolan didn't incorporate the idea. As a result TDK trilogy is the gold standard for cbm
Chistopher Nolan had no interest in doing so. Bale is loyal to the artist, so he swore never to join without Nolan. This means that it's impossible to link the darker Nolan take, as he is the only person who can make a Nolan film, for good or ill.
Oddly, he was fine handing the reins to Zack Snyder, and he was the reason that the actual story of Man of Steel made any sense. When you give Zack too much directorial control, he starts making hackneyed decisions, rather than logical/plot-dependent ones. They stroke his ego, instead.
Gunn said peacemaker S1 is entirely canon except for the justice league scene it’s pretty simple I don’t know what’s difficult, as for suicide squad 2 it’s loosely canon and only snip bits will be taken into canon
Also I will defend blue beetle it was good review wise but I think it was poor marketing and covid that made it lose profit
Yeah I don’t think it’ll matter long into the dcu but I’m still curious to see how they try to explain scrapping things like James has said would happen in season 2.
Gunn has made totally obscure things work in the past, I’m sure he has an answer already that will come to be accepted
I think the problem here is the association, rather than the matter of what’s canon or not. Both TSS and Peacemaker were done for the DCEU, not the DCU, and thus the general audience will see it this way, so Gunn still wanting (justifiably so, let’s be real here) to keep them in the canon because they are his babies, kinda makes for an unnecessary risk of confusion for the general audience, seems it’s looking like everything will be rebooted except those properties.
Don’t get me wrong, I also don’t think it is that difficult to understand and Creature Commandos so far has handled the topic as well as it can, but I do see why this can be a risk for Gunn’s DCU, specially seems it looks like, and let’s be honest here, a mere whim from Gunn now that he is in charge.
Covid? By August of 2023 the world was pretty well LONG since open. Stop making covid excuses for awful and lame movies. If the film had come out just one year earlier I could have maybe used that as an excuse. By August of 2023, NOPE.
Black Adam could have been a decent film if they got rid of the crime boss/satan villain and just kept the conflict between Adam and the JSA.
Great video. I like how you went through all the options!
Zack Snyder inflicted a slow painful lethal wound at the DCEU. James Gunn just mercifully ended its suffering by starting the new DCU.
I wouldn't say James Gunn killed the DCEU. It was already long since dead. James Gunn just buried it.
I loved Man of Steel, flawed as it was, and I even love certain aspects of BvS, though the film as a whole is a total mess. I used to ardently defend Zack Snyder, but I've realized he's a testosterone-feuled edge-lord with no appreciation for what makes superheroes heroic. However, I credit David Goyer with pretty much everything I love about his movies, especially Man of Steel, which was already written before Zack came on board, and was frankly more Christopher Nolan's story than Zack's. Like you said, his grand mythological take on the superhero genre that really took itself seriously had a lot of potential, the scripts just never reached that potential.
The fact you called him an “edgelord” proves you were never a “defender” and clearly have no clue wtf you’re talking about. It’s ironic you complain about Zack and then turn around and praise goyer, when the scripts and the characters you’re saying Zack got wrong was literally GOYERS take🤦🏽♂️
@bofawhatsbofa4593 Look, I really appreciated the themes that the stories tried, and often failed, to tackle in their approaches to the characters. There are definitely things that the movies nailed, and before I really knew anything about Zack Snyder behind the scenes, I would argue that he must understand the characters better than we give him credit for. But every time I've heard him in an interview such as the ones features in this video, he's just gone on about how he loves tearing heroes down, how his heroes aren't aspirational characters and those who think they should be are "in a ****ing dream world," and owning choices like having Batman murder with no better defense than that he thinks it's cooler that way. He's made it clear he's never understood or loved the characters for what they stand for, and so I can't defend him like I used to. I admit that I don't know for sure what is fair to credit to whom, and I'm largely speculating as to who is responsible for how much of the story, but looking at Zack's filmography shows how dumb his stories get when he has more creative control, so I have a hard time believing that the more complex plots and insightful character moments I appreciate so much in his movies were written by him.
As far as you arguing that the things I hate are Goyer's fault as well, you're not entirely wrong, though the writing of BvS was a mess, as Chris Terrio and David Goyer went back and forth as lead writers and had very different visions and styles, not to mention WB pushing them to rush into Justice League and Zack making sure it went his direction. So we can't tell for sure what all went on behind the scenes, but from what we know it seems likely that the elements of the story I loved were Goyer's influence, held back by his inability to just tell a complete story on his own.
Hearing somebody who adamantly has defended zach actually come around to acknowledging just how wrong zach is about these characters gives me hope🥹
@@JaxonPham Perhaps there's hope for the Snyder Cult.
@@JaxonPham man of steel’s Superman was hopeful and colorful and made me sing to the heavens with adulation and glee
#RestoreTheDookieVerse #RestoreTheFlopVerse 😀 lol
If the DCEU was ment to rival marvel then the DCU will be a replacement for marvel since that universe also isn’t going well.
Yeah It’ll be interesting to see how the two rival now as I think they’re on what feels like equal ground. (Marvel feels messy and dc feels fresh, dc is only now introducing characters, while marvel still has so many developed) honestly dc may have the upper hand of being a clean slate.
DCEU should have started with a Superman and Wonder Woman led JUSTICE LEAGUE film with smaller characters (i.e., Green Arrow, Huntress, Power Girl, etc).
Not the one-film-at-time approach MCU was doing.
I’m a new subscriber. I love your style of video and your in depth analysis. The way you talk keeps me awake and engaged. Awesome stuff 🎉
Zack Synder is the worst to ever do it in this genre. He literally said "You want me to do a superman Movie? Ok, then Superman's my enemy. I'm not going to make him interesting"
Good GOD he was the absolute WORST. I'm so glad he's gone from these characters.
Bro your a small channel and just uploaded this. This a good video man. It’s crazy how in like 3 years flat the DCEU went downhill 2013-2016 MOS to SS it’s crazy we saw the steps to what was gonna happen years ago and watched it fall
I hope this video (and your underrated channel) blow up! I’m a long time subscriber and lover of your channel!
Been waiting for this video. Excellent breakdown on each suspect and presenting all the facts forward. Great job dude!
I went to watch BvS twice in theaters. In both screenings I heard people laugh and say WTF when that scene happened. I knew at that point, the DCEU was dead on arrival and was never, ever gonna reach the point of where the MCU was at that point (pre Endgame).
Snyder did a decent job with MoS but he should have never made BvS. WB should have gotten someone else to make that movie. They definitely shouldn't have got him to come back to make JL after the disastrous response BvS got.
It died the second they wanted Man of Steel to be their first film in their universe. The final nail in the coffin was writing the main universe Batman as a serial killer. Everything after that was beating a dead horse that didn’t even pass the starting line
yeah the fact synder was going to kill of batman too shows were lucky the universe died lol
Do you mean the man of steel we got or a superman movie in general?
Zack snyder hating on batman because he's a billionaire btch you grew up rich too!
what should've been the first then
The moment I watched Clark let someone violently die to keep his secret safe in 'Man Of Steel', it had ended before it had even begun.
As far as the "soft cannon" new DCU thing goes, TSS and Peacemaker events happened but the way they happened is still unknown. Unless we are told something happened, it didn't. We don't know if Harley Quinn worked with Peacemaker or that Boomerang is dead in the DCU, all we know so far is that Rick Flag died in Corto Maltese and that Economose hurt his leg fighting the butterflies
35:29 you realize Peacemaker is the literal only one who acknowledged their existence. He probably just hallucinated them after the fight
lol james has said he’ll explain it in peacemaker s2 and I’m really looking forward to seeing how complex or basic the answer is😂
@@JaxonPhammy guess is it’ll start in the original DCEU and then we’ll pan out of that universe and go to a nearby one where similar events have gone down, we see the ending of season 1 again but this time the Justice League aren’t there
BTW, I like your delivery and you didn’t make me wanna switch from your video. Keep up the good work.
Goddamn i knew it was gonna be the
WB PRODUCERS
You had me with the suspect setup. I absolutely loved the structure of this video, you are going to blow up big time if you keep this level of writing in future videos.
Kudos!
I’ve always thought that a hilarious sitcom premise could be a bunch of Hollywood executives fumbling at every turn trying to make a cinematic universe😂
Gunn also said that the Blue Beetle movie is soft cannon, and will be part of the new DCU.
I wished my videos were as good as this was, you’re really talented dude
Snyder. Whoever thought it was a good idea to give Snyder so much power. Last but not least, Snyder fans.
Great video, great presentation. Keep it up!!
How do you only have 9k subs! Great vid
Wow this was a great video man. Subbed
The producers did kill it but in the sense that they gave the Feige role to Zach Snyder in the first place. A man whose sensibilities were woefully inadequate to be the creative head of the DC universe. A man with no understanding or caring about what made the characters great. An edgelord who wanted to foist his “vision” on the masses. I knew it would underperform as soon as I found out that he was hired. And so the inevitable happened. The producers were also to blame for not recognizing this and scrapping it after BVS.
I love this video, soo well made and even you as a host for this essay were great, I could sense the immense thought and passion put into this project. Well done buddy, you've just earned yourself a fan & subscriber.
I think it’s worth remembering (not that I disagree with any of this) that all of the “DCEU sucks/failed” discourse tends to kind of frame things as though the MCU has been a rousing success across the board, or that it’s doing particularly well and in a healthy spot at the moment, none of which is true. In fact I would argue that by 2024/2025 I wouldn’t say that one has really beat out the other, the way that I could more confidently say that in like 2017. Disney/Marvel have burned through a lot of the goodwill accrued pre-Endgame.
Agreed I think the landscape has changed and dc may have the upper hand of a clean slate.
Amazing Video
You can't kill something that never lived.
The final surprise culprit at the end is genius and 110% true
video is criminally underrated. please cook Al G Rhythm
Peacemaker and the Suicide Squad are basically Judy Dench in the Bond franchise: the one element that inexplicably survives the hard reboot and you should just not think too hard about how that makes any kind of sense whatsoever.
Zack Snyder, the Snyderbots, and the marthaverse
The Redditorverse is a more fitting title.
I read somewhere that SnyderBots were 12% or 22% of the fanbase. That’s INSANE. Twitter is NOT real, you guys.
Just like at who became president. The louder the voices (social media) does not equate to HIGHER consensus (2024 presidential election).
Sometimes, it’s just HOT AIR 😀
Save Martha 🗣️🗣️🔥🔥
@@sakurahex4998i think there won't be a Martha in his DCU's Superman.
Snyder really did a number on her. Seems Snyder WAS the guy who killed (badly hurt Superman's voice) Marthaaa... 😂
Snyder just wanted to destroy the characters.
Yup. And I don’t get how he STILL has defenders after his failures and being quoted pretty much saying as much. Like I get if you like his style (I don’t know how anyone could for DC movies but I recognize that some do). What I don’t understand is the inability to realize that maybe a bubble of his fans liked the DCEU but no one else did.
Snyder should STILL be able to direct DARK KNIGHT RETURNS part 1 and 2 Elseworlds’ project.
Maybe they can tell the DARK KNIGHT RETURNS-universe: Strikes Again, Master Race, etc. 😊
@@HermosaFeCatolica lmao... no
@@rasenganmaster101 why? It would be cool to see. No jokes in THAT universe. I guarantee it 😀
@@HermosaFeCatolicawhat’s so wrong with jokes I don’t get it
Snyder's perverse vision of these characters is why it failed. The execs meddling didn't help but Snyder's hatred for the original characters is why his films didn't connect with large audiences. Even after all this well documented terrible history. Some people still want to go back to that trash.
Blaming one man for the faults of an entire company has to be the biggest scapegoat any greedy CEO always makes.
WB sabotaged themselves at every turn trying to chase Disney. Hopefully they learned their lesson.
I watched the whole thing and I agree with everything that was said. Nice videos It would have never worked
Warner Bros. had a golden goose and they put it in the meat grinder.
Snyder's Netflix garbage films prove he shouldn't have been given DCEU. Which is a WBs mistake
This perfectly explains how the DCEU has fallen and why it failed.
Zack Snyder is the main villain because you can't set the foundation of a film franchise this terribly and then expect someone to somehow completely rearrange that he laid so many Easter eggs and so many things that were going nowhere and he threw them in there just cuz he thought they were cool.
Zack Snyder is proven to be an awful filmmaker with his crappy army of the Dead crappy rebel Moon movies and everyone finally sees that he has no clear direction or idea of what he's doing. And when you start the foundation of anything you're doing that poorly everything after it gets a pass because they're trying to make up for the crap that came and laid this broken foundation
It's not him. Its still the Executives. Snyder is great when he is not fully in power. People may not like MOS but I love that movie. And guess who's producing? Christopher Nolan. And thanks to that MOS is a great movie. They had Nolan to produce,Snyder to direct,Goyer and Nolan to write the story. Then instead of making a batman movie or a second superman movie (because they stated that superman in MOS will eventually become the way you know it and love but he was still not experienced and had to learn from his mistakes) the studio just wanted to hype the fans and wanted BVS to be made instead of a sequel or a standalone movie. I hated BVS,it felt rushed and not necessary and the studio actually interfered by bringing in a new writer and ditched Goyer hence the movie was rewritten and we got that stinker. And from there WB ditched anything from Nolan,Snyder and anything to do with that universe because marvel was making billions and all they got was criticism. I'm pretty sure if they didn't have cold feets those movies would've made money,they had a fan base plus with time people got bored of the marvel formula that's why stuff like the boys is loved. So eventually people would've taken the DCEU as an alternative as it could've been different. Snyder is not responsible however he is an awful filmaker when he's not checked his recent movies are fully produced, directed,written and even shot by him... that's his biggest weakness.
Ezra Miller may be crazy but imo the public perception of that craziness got blown a little out of proportion.
didn’t he kidnap a child?😭
Ur a fool for what u just said
Warner Brothers and Zack Snyder both destroyed the DCEU. Snyder shouldn't be involved with characters like Batman and Superman. As for Warner Brothers well they destroy everything. They are the reason DC is an absolute joke these days. DC deserved better than the DCEU.
Agreed
@@aaronmiles2802 It's crazy people want Snyder back when he was part of the problem. His take on the DC Universe failed to connect with audiences. James Gunn is perfect for DC because both critics and audiences love him.
Who ever casted a non blonde flash should be imprisoned.
@@onomatopoeia5540 I believe Zack Snyder was responsible for the casting but I'm not sure.
@callmejacob3234 no wonder🤣
This analysis was excellent! It was detailed and well prepared! I totally agree with all the points.
Only just replace 'apathy' at the end with 'greed'. It was the WB producers who wanted a quick big success, instead of small gains.
Thanks a lot! Now i have the "too many cooks" jingle stuck in my head!
Back to adult swim to watch it on repeat till my brain is fried 😊
The Snyder universe was just moronic. The only decent film was Man of Steel, downhill from there.
3:00 Fun fact: Nolan actually advised Snyder against making the movie too grim and against Superman ending Zoe because even he understood that a Superman film should be bright and hopeful but Snyder ignored him.
I really like this video, ur awesome
The chaotic behind the scene story of DCEU is FAR more interesting than the actual DCEU
The new Superman trailer genuinely looks incredible, and I'm excited to see what James Gunn is cooking up. Now more than ever is the time for WB and DC to really kick themselves into gear and get things on track.
Great video
Brilliantly broken down 👍
I'm not gonna lie, the moment I heard Jason Momoa auditioned as Batman, I immediately imagined momoa as Thomas Wayne Batman. I think Momoa can pull off that crazy look and intimidating aura and the story will likely be Momoa acting as Batman without telling us that he's not bruce battling a female joker and only be revealed at the end where the flash zaps through batcave trying to research how to go back home and was instantly trapped because he got distracted by the picture Batman, Joker, and Bruce in one frame.
Great commentary. Please do a video and thoughts about the new DCU and how you are feeling so far about it with James Gunn.
Also please do a video of MCU and its trajectory.
I think you can cover it great.
in my opinion suicide squad was the point where potential was high, but didn't deliver - its been slowly dying since then. but batman v superman was also 50/50 as to whether the franxhise was dead in the water.
It was Vince McMahon all along.
No chance? 😊
I was never into the snyderverse but the subsequent dc entries have made me wish he recieved more backing to manifest his vision
True true
Backing? Bro they gave 3 of the most iconic characters OF ALL TIME and he fuked it up, he wasnt like Sam Raimi not understanding the character like Venom, he understood them but REFUSED to portrayed them properly.
bruh there were other options beyond:
1. Give dc to guy that doesn’t give a fuck about superheroes
2. Endlessly fumble at every turn without a plan or vision
@@Stealthybat39”why doesn’t Batman dance anymore?” 😀
@@JaxonPhamas Gunn once said, (paraphrasing) “DC was giving away IP at anybody that smiled at them” 😀
I think it stems down to Zack Snyder with the previous wb regime messing things up at the end. He never really understood the characters and wb gave him way too much control. Also the constant flops didnt help either.
from what I know the old DCEU is still part of the DCU but Gunn said like they are Elseworld. Probably the reason why he called it DCU and not new DCEU because to him, all the past shows, games, and DCEU is still canon. It's just that the new DCU is the new canon that they will focus.
I hold Warner Bros. solely responsible for the downfall of the DCEU. Marvel’s carefully planned ten-year strategy set a high bar for success, and instead of crafting their own vision, WB rushed to compete. In their haste, they threw together elements that didn’t work well together. Things worsened when the leader of their new direction faced a personal tragedy, prompting WB to make even more impulsive decisions, further losing their way. By that point, they were already mired in a web of chaos and drama.
As a long-time fan of the Golden, Silver, Bronze and Modern DC line of comics, it was truly remarkable and endlessly baffling how many bad decisions went into the DCEU. It was embarrassing and put me into the role of Superman apologist, trying to convince people how great Superman was that had only seen the DCEU films. IMO, the DCEU couldn't die fast enough and am cautiously optimistic for Gunn's take.
Snyder created a creature with an immune disorder, dwane Johnson shot it in the stomach three times, and gunn put it out of its misery
😂😂😂
Am not understanding one thing. In the scene wheree superman tells "Save Martha" to Batman. Why it has become a troll material. If we got a Batman story it would be much explainable. Even though what actually that scene represents. iInthat movie batman has lost robin which was tragic loss to him so he became uncontrollable . he was blamed himself for the death of robin. he was in a confused and depressed state. when he saw superman fighting zod. during the fight. one of his employee died. which made him transfer all his anger towards superman.
when we come to this actual scene. batman is not even tried to listen. His main aim is to kill superman. when superman said save Martha. it actually hit batman with his tragic memories. if we see batman aka bruce wayne he blames himself for not saving his parents. when superman said save Martha. it suddenly hits batman.
That is what am understanding as per the scene. if we got batman movie before bvs it will explains a lot. but still if we see from batman view we can able to understand it.
PS: At first even I did not like this man of steel, bvs. later part I really understood what synder vision. he wants to make an injustice movie. wanted to create a different tone of superhero. even though it is not justified to comics. he wanted to be entirely different from marvel. Now, if we see who all copied injustice version of superman like homelander or invincible they are very successful.
And I think that in future james gunn also having a plan to make injustice movie.
The comments blaming Snyder proves they know absolutely nothing 😂
Should have let Snyder cook. HE was the guy who brought in money and interests, the moment he wss gone, WB fumbled so hard they had a 7 flopped movie streak 😂😂😂😂😂😂
The old WB executives are the ones to blame.
Look at Marvel, their first two movies: The Incredible Hulk and Iron Man 1 are both not-so-big earners with 280$ mil and 580$ mil, yet the cinematic universe was given time to grow.
39:46 I would add to this that Marvel seems to be working on their own cinematic reboot with Doomsday/Secret Wars, although both of those movies are a long time away
You have missed a lot of the other suspects WB went through 3 Regime changes, Most notably AT&Ts Ann Sarnoff who actually DID NOT WANT CAVIL back. Kevin Tsujihara who flip-flopped constantly on the direction of these films, Jon Peters, Charles Roven and Walter Hamada, Everyones is quick to blame Gunn but these are the real pullers of the strings here.
Fans always say if Snyder had the creative freedom and support from WB, he would make a great DC universe on screen, but he already had his chance to establish DC in film properly and Man Of Steel was divisive, you can't make a profitable and enjoyable DC universe when you try to achieve a personal vision, excluding all the fans that disagree, iron man wasn't about adapting a specific vision but making a quality story embodying 40+ years of history
I'd say the biggest factor to what killed the dceu is the fact that WB tried to catch up to marvel instead of patiently building their universe.
Had they patiently built up their universe like marvel the dceu would probably still be running strong.
2 Things killed the DCU 1. Chasing Marvel; which also killed Sony's extended Spiderman Universe and the Universal Monster-verse 2. Going dark; You don't go dark with heroes post 9/11. You can have defeat, you can have a hero at their lowest point but miserable characters won't work. It's the reason why WW was the only success story DC had, they didn't betray her story like that did Batman and Superman to make them "edgy" .
Why don't/can't/shouldn't you don't go dark with heroes post 9/11? Or is that just a phrase I'm unfamiliar with? This is a genuine question, not trying to come off as rude or insensitive or anything.
It's dceu, dcu will start with Superman
🤣🤣🤣🤣 laughs in The Boys and invisible
@@yashJoshi-hn6bfDCEU? Sounds like a venereal disease 😀
Seriously though, WATCHMEN was a GREAT film. The source material was gritty and dark on its own.
Snyder did an impeccable job showing that to us. This is arguably his BEST film ever.
When I was a kid in Nigeria, I used to watch the DCAU shows by Bruce Timm and Paul Dini. I hoped the DCEU would simply use that as a template for their movies but they refused for some reason I will never understand🤔 Why?! It had universal appeal for casuals and comic book fans
DC should have NEVER tried to copy MCU with one-film-at-a-time approach.
That’s cool for MARVEL because nobody KNOWS any of these characters. What is a Hawkeye? What is a Black Widow?
Everybody KNOWS DC already, for the most part.
Instead, DC should have just had a Superman/Wonder woman led JUSTICE LEAGUE film, with smaller characters (i.e., Green Arrow, Plastic Man, Huntress, Power Girl, etc). With a small focus, it would have succeeded and allowed for spin-offs out of it.
Batman could have slowly been introduced as a detective investigating the JUSTICE LEAGUE characters, whilst partaking in his OWN adventures, only for Vandal Savage to rob his list and ….
JUSTICE LEAGUE 3: TOWER OF BABEL 😊
Very interesting video but I hoped u made it more specific and just simply dropped the names of who's responsible on that time.
Great video. Imo, id blame all. I read Green Lantern was supposed to kick off a shared universe but i didnt think that. I read Routh's Clark Kent from Superman Returns was gonna appear but didn't and i don't remember seeing any hint of other DC heroes in it so i ultimately thought of it as another solo franchise like Batman & Superman primarily to test the waters. But again i think blame goes all around.
50 minute video when all you need to say is Zack killed it from the start
It goes to show really how skewed different people's perspectives are on comics and possibly how much they've forgotten what stuff was like back in the "good old days".
Marvel...is relatable. It's a grounded believable universe with people who inherit one or two generic powers or attain abilities and yet still have to deal with their human problems. Their families, their friends, their vices. They're people who still can't get over their people level problems and that's what most of their stories are really about. A lot of Marvel stories still work if you remove the super powers.
DC...is aspirational. It's a universe that uses characters with incredible powers and worlds, allies, villains and problems related to those powers to tell stories about how we can all strive to become better people. Every well written character is so unique that they live in their own themed world and deal with problems unique to their world and power set. DC, when done right, tells stories the can only be told with superpowers.
People ASPIRE to be Superman or Batman or Wonder Woman. Nobody aspires to be the Hulk or Thor or even Iron Man. Marvel's heroes have problems we can relate to, but DC shows us how we would like to live our lives for the better. To think beyond ourselves.
Even the Avengers works cinematically because of how grounded and generic and largely unimportant the powers are for the stories. In the MCU everyone is just on a first name basis; it's easy to knit all that together into a cohesive world.
The Justice League, by comparison, is a clown car accident that makes no sense because DC storytelling isn't about people with generic powers. It's a world where Ancient Greek gods, Gotham City and Atlantis all have to exist together when they weren't designed to do that. Those places and characters support broader themes that work amazingly as storytelling devices but don't create a cohesive world.
It's for this reason why a Silver Age approach is actually better for DC. NOT a grounded world, but rather one from of insane possibilities that give way to more fun storytelling. That's the fun of DC beyond its aspirational qualities: if you're reading a story with Krypto and Plastic Man and Dead Man and talking Gorillas, you will absolutely read a story unlike anything you've ever read before. And great writers can turn those stories into profound experiences. Like how Moore turned Supermans birthday party into a touching story about the life he lost when he was sent away from Krypton for instance.
Marvel is relatable, but DC is aspirational. Marvel tells us stories we are familiar with in our world but DC let's us consider incredible possibilities of the human experience.
I will always blame the wb exectives who laughed paul dini (one of the architects of the dcau) out of a meeting. Only to come groveling back to him after man of steel failed.
The real killer isn't wb it's entirely on Zach for failing to understand the basics of Superman and Batman
Now, james gunn has created comic justfied superman. but we all forget that he was the one who humiliated entire justice league characters in the peacemaker tv series. as per that series, justice league involvement is not even necessary. but he wanted to humiliate the character. And studio at first offered him to direct superman movie only. but he denied.
His superman trailer looks good and promising. And his universe also looks very good. but am praying to god that warner bros studio should not interrupt even anyone project fails.
Maybe Henry Cavil is hard to work with. He seems to have never heard the saying "kill your darlings," and takes himself and the characters he plays way too seriously
We can just summarise this as: WB had cold feet.
Overall WB killed it. They had a good run prior to Marvel with Superman, Batman and the Dark Knight series. They then hired Snyder knowing what his vision was and that he was not a very director.
The first two names that come to mind for me are Joss Whedon and Dwayne Johnson.
Well the plague was a factor for both MCU and DCEU, one was massively successful and the other needs an autopsy, so the plague can’t be the excuse.
The sad thing is I thought blue Beatle was perfect and was released on max like it was supposed too it wouldn’t be called a flop
Gunn has no credibility, he said Flash was the greatest superhero movie he ever seen. 💀
Marvel for better or worse had one thing: A plan
WB didn't have one and wanted Avengers numbers as quickly as possible without the world building aspect in the original DCU run.
If you have a cinematic universe at your disposal for the love of god seek the world building aspect first and foremost. Who cares about "who gets first place in Box Office".
Nothing will come of it if you can't or rather won't adhere to simple and basic principles, rules of engagement when comes to running a cinematic universe
If this second DCU run flops. That's it. It's game over, WB can't bounce back and/or can't do another run; no one will have the stomach nor the time to give it a third chance