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I don’t blame toyotaro for the shortcomings of dbs. I blame the ones who made the executive decision to give him the lead. I mean for crying out loud, he wasn’t even a working professional manga artist. I understand they wanted to give him a shot because they were impressed by his work. But they could have just given him a dragon ball spin off or something, not a whole bloody sequel to the most beloved anime franchise of all time. An illogical and unprofessional move on their part.
He started off with Dragon Ball Heroes Victory Mission, so they did test him. They saw what he could do, so they gave him the job. You can’t be mad at that, but he can improve. He SHOULD want to improve, and I noticed a decline in his work in recent years. His Toyble stuff is better.
Yeah, and the pressure of being a part of something so dear to everyone's hearts, would have caused him to believe that his works may not be good enough to impress and so he'd be more willing to take those lazy shortcuts, just hoping that nobody finds out. The pressure of approval by the fans may have caused him to feel he can't do it on his own and so he'd rely on things like lazy composition and even referencing some images from other comics/mangas.
I'm loving these videos not cuz of the criticizing of the DBS Manga but more so cuz its intriguing to see these fixes as an artist myself. Most of the mistakes Toyo makes, I do them unconsciously too so seeing this is kinda like a learning experience for me. I'm learning a lot about comic book/manga making from these videos. Thanks Mark!
Storytelling and composition are the 2 most important visual parts in a comic book, and nearly 70% of all comic book artists\mangakas don't use them or don't know them. Plus the vast majority of writers and scenarists have literally NO IDEA on how to use them, and editors just don't know shit about the medium they're working in most of the times. I'm a semi-pro comic book artist(getting there lol) with a true love for composition and storytelling, and it's a pain to even try to apply these concepts when you have to piss off an entire team of people, because you need to change this and that.
At this point the DB Super anime is a lot better. Toriyama is a master at his craft, his work literally moves "on the page." It's hard to match. His manga tells the whole story by just looking at it. Toyotaro is good, but he can not tell a story by just drawing like Toriyama can.
Toei are the ones who execute the story, Toriyama writes what he wants to happen, the rest is Toei, the most Toriyama has ever done in a story was in this DBS Broly movie and we see how good it is.
Gosh, how am I just now seeing this video? I personally feel that most of the points you made are stem directly from Toyotaro's beginning as a simple fan-fiction artist. I have noticed that, seemingly, every single major DBZ fan-manga work on the Internet uses copy-and-pasted poses from Toriyama's work throughout the ages. As someone who grew up adoring Dragon Ball (I've read the entire manga start to finish over twelve times) and studied comics and sequential art, it gets REALLY annoying when you straight up recognize entire panels having been lifted from the Dragon Ball manga. It immediately ruins my immersion into their manga. I don't mind Toyotaro, personally, but it IS clear that he is unrefined and the manga studio who employs him has no interest in spending time improving his work when they can instead spend time having him produce more work. And you're right, he does recycle the same shots and reactions over and over, which is why I've had little to no interest in revisiting the Dragon Ball Super manga, unlike Dragon Ball. It's a shame, really, that Dragon Ball Super's manga and anime both seem to suffer significantly from the never-ending break-neck speed.
@@emmanuelmondesir1314 Yeah the manga is horrible in terms of drawing quality and paneling but the story telling is almost unmatched. Madhouse animated the series so incredibly well it's almost hard to believe it exists. Best from both worlds I guess.
i've see people fighting tooth and nails defending togashi for what he's doing recently ( ofc not talking about the content of the chapters which is amazing....but how he's presenting it) i'll never understand some fans lol............i mean hell kurapika is missing his nose most of the time
i mean it's kinda not his fault that he wrote the most complicated scene in all of manga. Like the stuff talked about is so esoteric and complex you can't even draw it so i feel like he was just like "fuck it. You're reading a book now."
@@yiangaruga4928 I disagree. That page could've been better of course, but overall Togashi's paneling is pretty great. I'm not an expert with this stuff, but they're generally pretty easily to follow, and he can emphasise the strength of certain panels wonderfully. The large amount of text can mostly be credited to fan translations. For example, the page Mark showed had over 500 words in its fan translation, but VIZ's translation only had 360. Reading the official translations is a must for a work with this much text. His drawing quality isn't amazing, but its pretty good and consistent this arc.
Something else that needs to be touched upon is his writing. Which has been seriously lacking for a while now. He makes such odd story changes and does weird things with characterization. I mean in the anime of the TOP arc when 17 is seemingly killed 18 is distraught and cries. But in the Manga she's way more reserved and it has less impact. Lets not forget the weirdness that is Master Roshi being able to dodge and stand against Jiren and how Goku going UI is achieved.
Matthew Hilliker yea i agree man, i thought the manga was gonna flesh out the characters a bit more such as Tien and Krillen but maaaan, its just become real boring
Oda sometimes has very busy pages(I like them, but I heard many people complain about them) but he's still at the top of his game. Like Toriyama, he still storyboards the pages and inks the characters himself, letting the assistants do only backgrounds, effects and inanimate objects and it shows. What you see is still 100% him and every composition is still 100% him, unlike many other mangakas(looking at you Kishimoto). I don't know how the fuck he does it(20-22 pages per week baby, Toriyama couldn't produce more than 13-15), but I love him.
@@DeadKraken Yeah, there have been many times when I couldn't tell what was happening in a page because there was seemingly so much cluttered in it. One of the most prominent examples that comes to mind at the moment is the Marineford war, specifcally whenever Whitebeard or Blackbeard used the Gura Gura no Mi/Fruit powers.
Because Oda knws how to tell a story... Just doesn't make a flashy manga The man knows that a good story is not only about fighting and power levels :V
He really is incredible. I somehow am ALWAYS able to understand what he draws, despite sometimes having crowded pages. He sometimes uses a lot of pannels in one page, but still it's still easy to understand what is happening, at all times. To compare him to another mangaka, Horikoshi often uses few large pannels in his pages, but still I often find myself not understanding what I am seeing/I should be seeing, at least once per chapter
Mark: *Shows that toyotaru copied from the dbz manga* Me: OHOHOHOHO that has no effect on me... BECAUSE I SKIPPED DBZ AND WENT STRAIGHT TO THE DBS MANGA!!
10:54, Stellar advice, every wannabe; cartoonist, sketch artist, Inker/painter, and animator listen to that part please!!! - Well done Totally Not Mark. This generation has way more access to stuff my generation didn't, so *USE IT* cos you're so empowered, like no other generation beforehand.
@@hoangnguyenthaile8148 artists need no dignity, dignity is a hindrance One must be willing ti kill and lick a spider to understand it whether one is around or not EVERYTHING FOR ART
You made alot of very excellent points Mark, It begs the question how can Super's Manga be fixed now? Is there anybody out in the Industry telling Toyo what he's doing is wrong or have the people he's working for that he needs to improve? Because I really like Super Manga and wish for it to do great.
I have been ready comics as long as I could read and toriyama's composition flow and pacing is among the best I have seen. It's truly amazing that you can read it backwards (as a westerner) and never feel confused about the flow of dialogue and sequence of events.
I want to say dude, this is one of my favorite channels in recent months. I love when channels look into the depth of stories, their art, their writing, their design and critique and praise it for what it is. And the fact that you've shown Dragon Ball as something with more depth than transformations, fights, etc is awesome. Keep the content rolling. But damn, Toriyama must be amazing when it comes to artstyle
These manga videos are my favourites, as an aspiring comic artist myself, it brings me so much joy to see someone else who's so passionate about the art of visual storytelling. Keep it up Mark!
There's so much noise tha there's no visible background. It's so claustrophobic when he leaves it out. It's like they're fighting outside of time and space, just in a blank world where they only have room to punch
"If it's good, we largely dont notice it" That in of itself is lowkey a problem too. Goes to show that most people tend to want to focus or find flaws and negatives to things and ignore or just dont acknowledge the positives. That's a really...peculiar and somewhat of a bad thing imo.
You are not supossed to notice the panel composition in comic pages, if you do than it's bad. When people read comics they usually want to read the story, and so they focus on what they need to focus on, it's only when you read a second time that you start to apriciatte the work the artist placed on the drawings. When you notice something in the composition when you are reading for the first time it means something is distracting you or you are not reading for the story and are just enjoying the drawings.
I have an amazing story. One day I was driving home and I felt the presence of the Lord, come down to me from above. It was as real as anything and I felt so comfortable with Him. I knew if I asked Him to play a song on the radio, He would. So I said "Ok Lord, play Come as you are..." I didn't know what station it was on or anything, but I turned the radio on and the song started playing right on the spot, perfectly... I started getting flooded with chills inside, trembling, and crying tears of joy. When I got home, He stayed with me for 10 minutes till I got out of the car. Since then, I've been getting prayers answered wayyyy more often, because that experience made me stop doubting when I pray, and I follow Biblical instructions for praying, as best I can.
@@superior2096 ehhh. Maybe the movie retelling arcs and the clone Vegeta mini arc. The other arcs are ok with the future trunks arc actually being really good in my personal opinion.
As an aspiring Comic artist, I thank you for the many helpful tips Totally Not Mark. Your videos are rapidly becoming my favorites to listen to and watch as i work on my craft.
i like your crit of his work. it's very thorough and clear without trying to beat the man up. very well done. one thing for you though that is kinda a problem in your work editing his is, DON'T put art into the gutter! remember that this art is theoretically going to be printed in a book and bleeding into the gutter (the inbetween space where the pages are glued to the spine) cuts off alot of art in the printing process and generally makes the art harder to read. you do this at time frame 8:03. I would literally just flip the page on the right.
Your English, going off this comment, has better grammar than quite a few comments from English speakers online :) well done friend and thank you for taking the time to watch :)
10:00 you know what would've made that panel better? Of Toyotaro put those two bottom panels on top and just slightly changed the way that scene would play out. What I mean is: Jiren being caught off guard by Goku's incredible punch, and bottom bigbpanel showing the impact. That allows us viewers to experience the shock value of Ultra Instinct. The way Toyotaro did it is just plain, basic and expected.
Well, you just put my feelings about Toyotaro's works into words perfectly. There are so many manga with better composition. Hell, look at One's work, while his drawing quality is low, he has amazing abilities in both page composition (which I guess he learned a bit from Murata too), and story telling. There's also Mizukami's works, which always feel so great to read. Made in Abyss is another good example which uses a lot of textures but doesn't feel noisy when it shouldn't be, and when it is noisy, it's for a reason.
Huh I thought that 7:43 looks that way because that's how "modern" manga artist drew the page. I'm kinda making comic currently, and when I read a lot of "current" manga, they tend to drew the panels that way, moving faraway from the center of the book. Is that the wrong way to draw it?
No, that's just Mark not caring for the artist's interpretation is. Some of my favorite artists do it too but Mark sees Toriyama doing it and assumes that must be the right way.
It's a shame, because Toyotaro draws very very good, his problems aren't his drawings or designs, it's more composition, organisation and angles. He has the potential.
Hazel 196 I am 100% sure that if he didn't have to rush the ToP to get ahead of the anime, the manga would be fking epic. Toyotaro is good but these deadlines are affecting his work.
@@tricko8000 I think that too. I'm sure that he could apply Toriyama's suggestions and his own talent much better if he had more time and space to complete each arc. He's not a "I'll produce 400 pages per week" kind of mangaka and this is clear, but he probably also has problems in working under pressure and in a limited amount of pages and time. I mean, if anyone had to cram 48 episodes of 26 minute each in just 9-10 chapters, it wouldn't look great no matter how much they try :\
Arman Vincent Romero Lol there won't be Broly saga in the manga, there will be a promotional mamga in December for the movie, like the one for the Golden Frieza movie. Next month a new saga starts, which takes place after Broly movie.
I'm commenting crazy late, but one example I kept thinking of while Mark referenced composition and paneling was Bill Watterson, the creator of Calvin and Hobbes. He's not a mangaka, but in the years of working with comic strips he often complained about the limitations of the funny pages format of panels and in his later years working on the series, especially for the Sunday papers where he had something closer to a full page to work with, radically experimented with what he could do with his panels and illustrations.
Damn this was a good video. But to be honest I don't mind if Toyotaro uses the same poses/shots if saves him some time, sadly he uses that time to cram in WAY too much in one chapter and as you said he uses WAY to much. I can understand that he has deadlines like all manga artist do, especially now since I heard that the manga is supposed to go straight into the Broly arc after the ToP is over. I'm thinking that Toei wants to have the manga have a head start so that Toyo doesn't have to try and retell an entire arc in three chapters. He should have plenty of time before the anime returns.
What an informative video! Thank you for taking the time making this video. I always knew there was something off about toyotaro and I so hope he improves over time, so someone explaining his faults in a calm matter is very refreshing. As someone who aspires to do their very own webcomic, this gave me some good notes to have in mind while making pages for it. Keep up the good work Mark!
Thank you Mark! You're one of my favorite TH-camrs right now and this video was very informative for me. I myself am planning to do comics soon and I'm so glad I got to see some handy tips ahead of time! I want to love Toyotaro's work he's done for Dragon Ball and the Super manga but as you stated in your videos, he has a lot of faults holding him back from being so. I applaud the amount of research you put into this video and putting examples outside the spectrum of Dragon Ball. I only hope that your viewers(including myself) will take your advice to heart and keep it in mind for our own comics. I'm looking forward to more content on your channel and videos like these. Never change, Mark!
Kick ass vid. There is a lot to be leant from your video, toyotaro's character waists are too thin as well. I wish they would let all the dragonball shows and mangas a chance to breath. Slow the pace down, it all feels rushed. Fingers crossed for dragon ball super broly.
mark I just wanna say thank you, ive been wanting to draw a manga for a while now and this really really inspired me! ive been watching you for probably like 2-3 years and your a mega inspiration, thank you and once I finish my first manga book, ill try to reach out to you to get some criticism
How the hell did this guy to be the one writting the DBS Manga? I can understand some homages, but this grade of copy paste it's just disrespectfull for every true artist.
@@Amplifymagic Yeah I know, but doing homages to epic artist it's very different to copy the characters poses and repeat them over and over, just because you don't know how to draw the human anathomy by yourself.
I love this video and I love your content Mark, you’re brutally honest (in a good way) and you’re so nice and a good person for trying to motivate people, you’re a fricking saint man.
Now that chapter 61 is out, a lot of the issues you mentioned are becoming really apparent. And that's not even mentioning the dialogue. It would be really awesome if you did a video about Toyotaro's understanding of the dragon ball world and its characters and how to fix these issues.
Yeah communicating through imagery is an essential component in any visual medium (comics, film, animation, ect) It’s unfortunate that Toyotaro seems challenged and unconfident in communicating a story through his illustrations and also relies heavily on dialogue which can often times feel superfluous :)
@@mariateixeiraantunes6005 Yeah, not to mention the characters are not cropped off by the panels, so it doesn't feel like you are missing any important information.
I recently went back to read the Dragon Ball manga after finishing Dragon Ball Super manga. And I asked myself one question : Why is the original manga so enjoyable to read? I noticed that whenever a character talks, it's not boring and I don't find myself wishing for them to shut up ( which I normally do ) And I thought about everything you mentioned in this video. Not to mention that in every panel where someone talks, you'll always find a character doing something funny or being cute, and that helps a lot to make the pages feel energetic and fun to read.
I really enjoyed your previous video about the manga, so it’s great that you managed to make follow-up that is as enjoyable as it is inspiring. This video and its lessons has to be seen by as many manga or comic book fans and artists as possible.
This Video is so helpful and inspiring for mangakas or any comic artists. I know it doesn't have to do with the rest of this comment, but rest In Peace Stan Lee, you were one of the best comic book artists and a lovable nerd, we will never forget you❤️
Thank you for making this video. Your last video on the manga really struck a cord with me and now when I read any manga I look at the way It's been presented and I quite enjoy doing so.
DBS is more about quantity over quality & that's what makes it bad. Not all the time but DBS seems like it's being written by a fan into a bad fanfic... WAIT A MINUTE!!!
Is it really even quantity over quality? It's a monthly manga and yet, for example, My Hero Academia totally shits on it despite being released weekly. I think it has more to do with Toyotaro being incompetent, I have no clue who tf thought that making him the one to continue one of the biggest series of all time was a good idea.
@@BlackSalamander439 When I said quantity, I was referring to him adding to many scenes / pictures. He'll draw the same scene up to 4 times. He'll even reuse poses & uses way to many intense line scenes too. My point is that less can be more. Cluttering the page with shit isn't a good idea.
You mean both the anime And the manga right? Because I swear, there were times I almost dropped the series for some time due to how bad the writing was when the anime was airing
Yee but I also don´t always do what my boss told me if in my opinion it is right or better my way. I guess Toyotaro thinks the same way additionally hes an successfully mangaka so he might not wanna hear critics :/
@@finalphoenixable he probably feels pressured to put in a year worth of anime content into his rushed monthly schedule. Without hte new movie deadline by December in place for the new arc he might do better now.
@@Amplifymagic People always forget about this. He's shit at composition and storytelling, this we know, but he also has a list of things that need to happen before a certain deadline and can't waste anytime in developing things more than needed, and this was absent from Toriyama's schedule when he was working on DB. It was the exact contrary infact, he didn't even plan stuff, his editor was probably the only person pressuring him on something, while Toyo has the entirety of fuckin Toei and Shueisha pushing for new stuff to come out.
@@DeadKraken agreed, the original manga was a natural product. The current franchise is a merchandise vehicle with strict guidelines that need to be towed.
Thanks for the video man. It's very helpful stuff. Keep up the awesome work! I always look forward to seeing what your next video is gonna be. Also the message at the end has gotten me fired up to draw again, thanks!
Legit answer with no sarcasm or anything: Probably because their series hasn't run on for as long as Dragon Ball. The longer something goes on the more things solidify as the rules or tone or whatever become more and more set and you have to try to stay consistent. That's why shows like SpongeBob (though it sounds like it got better) lost its magic running for 20+ years straight. You just start to run out of new ideas while under the umbrella of one IP.
@@popstarchamp maybe but one piece has been going on for how long and its still good. then again I don't think Oda's human... never mind your point still stands.
Because they're professionals, and professionals are used to work under pressure, it's the first thing you'll learn in any good art school or in your very first job in the comic book\manga industry. Clearly Toyo is not a professional and has problems mantaining quality while under pressure.
@@jamainegardner4193 this guy is way better than geekdom. My favourite moment from geekdom is when he explained with his usual smug way why friezas design was different in one of the trailers for broly. Only for it to be a mistake! Tnm actually creates with his videos. Geekdom just explains shit
Another great video Totally Not Mark, thank you. What is your opinion on too much text in a manga? Personally, while text is the backbone to any story I find too much to be distracting. One Piece and One Punch Man, for examples, I find that they sometimes have too much redundant text for characters that are irrelevant in the next few pages. When I was catching up with these series I was able to determine what was relevant and what wasn't. While all this text is great for world building and can entice new readers to be feel as if they knew this world all their life it can take away from, what I feel, as the main story.
The main reason why I think the manga is bad is due to poor sourcematerial. and Im not talking about the anime (even though its much worse in terms of story) I mean Toriyamas notes. Toriyama never was a strong writer, hes a fantastic artist whos a genius at conveying motion and outstanding in paneling his pages. But his writing is godawfull. Which is the reason why most of the writing in the original Dragonball manga was done by his editors (mainly Torishima which he consulted even when he wasnt editing the manga) Thinking that Toriyama wrote Dragonball is a missconception and hiring him to write super was a marketing stunt at best, if he would illustrate the manga and the writing would be done by someone else, Dragonball super would be much less of a mess than it currently is.
It's nice to see Toyo's art and panel flow has been improving in recent chapters, but I really wish they would've had Toriyama at least do some super basic layouts for him and let him and let him fill in the rest. Tori spends a day or two making the chapter layout, Toyo draws it from there, Tori critiques and then it's cleaned up.
if toriyama oversaw toyotaro drawing the dragon ball super manga and commented on what he should change in terms of layout, that would probably make the dragon ball super manga flow a lot better.
@@ProjektTaku Big time. We've see what happens when Toriyama just writes the story without being interpreted by Toei or Toyo. You end up with Broly, the best DragonBall movie to date.
@@redkingrauri3769 I'm not saing toriyama should just write and draw the dragon ball super manga, but give toyotaro some more oversight. But with the moro and granola arc (which have the most involvement by toyotaro) he's improved massively.
@@ProjektTaku Moro left me lukewarm at the end. The final blow didn't feel like DragonBall to me. The granolah arc has been feeling like it's going on too long.
@@redkingrauri3769 well, you are entitled you your own opinion. I personally love how the moro arc was structed and how everything came together. And the granolah arc perfectly continued on afterwards, and granolah himself is one of my favorite villains. Overall, I consider them the best dragon ball super arcs so far!
@@angrydaniel2905 Sorry, when I said "intentionally" I meant it FEELS like the reason behind a certain decisions was to mess stuff up it's so bad. Though while I doubt Toei or Toriyama or whoever is intentionally making the writing have bad elements for the specific reason of messing stuff up, I have heard multiple times from multiple people, including Not Mark himself, say that Toei imposes really unfair challenges on the production of the series. Like rushing it out (which explains early season animation troubles) or forcing in new characters into the story (more Androids and Cell back in Z and Kale in Super). So I don't think there's any intentional sabotage going on. Just greedy business decisions.
PopstarChamp well, for the record, Dragon Ball is messed up, but they still fits together. It is normal to see if power level or the scale get out of hand from time to time because Akira Toriyama said that he made the story up along the way with no long-term plan. Case in point: Great Ape simply meant to be similar to the transformation of a werewolf.
You guys are giving so much shit to an artist who is being forced to do the story a certain way. I'm sure if Toyotaro had complete control over the series, he would take things at a slower pace and take time to crank out good material. However, Toyotaro is nothing more than a marketing tool. He and his manga are simply used as marketing material for DragonBall anime, as opposed to he telling his own story. The last few chapters have been "bad" because he is being forced to quickly wrap things up in time for the Broly movie. So they can use his manga as a marketing material for the movie just like they did with Resurrection F. The problem is Toriyama, to be honest. Everyone praises the shit out of him but it's his involvement that really screws up BOTH the anime and manga. Or rather, his lack of involvement. I’m thankful to Toriyama for creating and giving us this franchise what we love so much, but he needs to go. The same way George Lucas had to go for Star Wars to be mildly watchable again. Toriyama isn’t invested enough in the series. He’s happy to provide bullet points for TOEI and Toyotaro but that’s about it, and the anime and mangasuffers for it, because both TOEI and Toyo have to half-assedly fill in the rest. Aside from Bardock, I’ve yet to enjoy a TOEI-only DragonBall plotline or concept. I want a cornerstone who has a young person’s passion for this series and I believe Toyotaro is currently that person based on his current work. Someone with passion and willingness to have creative control over the whole thing and not Toriyama who just provides an outline of a plot and happily goes back to his semi-retired life while TOEI stumbles trying to create something worthy. Let Toyotaro take over full creative control of a post-Z manga series, and after a few years of manga content TOEI can then adapt it into the new anime series with Toyataro as an advisor so there’s flow and consistency between the two instead of this disjointing of the two we currently have thanks to Toriyama going “And then he gets blue hair!… you guys figure out the rest.” I’ve read that in interviews Toyotaro has been called Toriyama’s “chosen successor”, but he still has to play by the rules of plot points given to him. He's not a successor at all, he's just trying desperately to fill in the gaps of story beats given to him by Toriyama. He doesn't the freedom to exercise his writing talent completely. The amount of exposition Toyotaro has to include in his panel are directly because Toriyama over-complicates the Super storyline by being too damn vague and not taking more charge of it. Toyotaro has to compensate for this vague bullet points by trying to make sense out of it with more dialogue. It's like this. Imagine someone gives you a powerpoint presentation, with only slide titles and it's up to you to create something out of those slide titles and make sense of them. You have no choice but to put many bullet points and photos of graphs that you THINK explain the slide title. And because you want to make sure you covered everything and didn't miss the point of the slide title, you over crowd it. Now imagine you are given full control and YOU get to create the slide titles. You are not longer bound by someone else's mind and trying to decipher their message. Now YOU get to tell your own message. Toyotaro does not have the freedom to create his own storyline. If he could, he would probably take the recomendations of Toriyama and do less. Let's take one of your first complaints as an example: you say there is no establishing shot. That's because there isn't time for one. Toyotaro is being forced to wrap things up in just a few chapters in time for the Broly movie and to start the new arc that he has no time or space to BREATHE. He can't tell the story he wishes he could tell; he can't take his time to let the scenes breathe because he's not given the time. Take Toriyama away and take those restraints off of Toyotaro. The guy’s young, passionate, has a good grasp of the DragonBall world and most importantly can provide a fresh new take on DB rather than just relying on concepts from the past. Not to mention he probably knows DB better than Toriyama as he’s infamously known for forgetting series concepts/characters he’s introduced and keeps retconning (which have become the reasons for many fan frustrations). DBS is almost fan-fiction level anyway, so why not let someone who created fan-fiction out of love and passion for the series take over. Of course I don’t see it happening as money is the only language anime studios speak. I leave with this, an interview excerpt: “Toyotarō: Ultimately things need to head towards the conclusion indicated by Toriyama-sensei‘s original draft, but during that process I want to give various characters things to do… At times like that I depart slightly from the script, but I guess you could say I’m faithful to its essence. Toriyama: I welcome it! After all, you know far more about Dragon Ball than I do. Toyotarō: Well, my goal is to be the No. 1 fan (laughs). Still, it’s not just about my desire to give various characters a chance to shine; there are also times when this sort of thing is necessary to arrive at the goal you’ve indicated, Toriyama-sensei. For instance, if the goal is for Goku to have a direct showdown with Zamasu at the end, I can’t simply have Goku reach that point in peak condition. There needs to be various twists and turns before the two can face off against each other. This time around in the “Future Trunks arc”, there were many such twists and turns that I created… though I was a bit uncertain about them… Toriyama: No, it’s better that way! I think it’s better to let your individuality as an author shine through, rather than just follow the path I set down for you. It would be unbalanced if it were all just my ideas, so it’s better like this. Toyotarō: While I tried not to take things too far afield, I certainly did get to use many of my own ideas at points. Like thinking “wouldn’t it be interesting if Trunks trained in the Kaiōshin Realm, and had healing powers?” Toriyama: It’s definitely better that way.” It is better that way Toriyama. So make it that way. Retire and let someone else take over.
I agree with your novel. I've been using the George Lucas analogy for a while now and it's clear Toyo had some good ideas going even if the execution was off. I still think his panelling and composition is suspect but story wise he could make a much stronger product if he wasn't worried about sticking to Toriyama's outlines. Shit, it's almost like Tori's cool with whatever Toyo wants to do, but as long as Toei throws him money he'll keep throwing out story beats.
@T-Doug It's not my fault if people have the attention span of five year olds. You either read it or you dont. You can choose to engage with me about my argument and opinions of what I said, but don't shit on people who are able to express themselves with more than one sentence comments.
@@Stephenguitar93 I've only really consumed EU (which varies WILDLY in style and quality) star wars media while being totally disinterested in the films. I finally sat down and watched eps 1-8 over the course of a few months. Gotta say, even with a solid understanding of the lore and themes, the OT is kind of boring, the prequels are comically bad, and the new trilogy is fun and visually exciting if not pretty vapid. My conclusion: star wars is consistently pretty ok. Also dumb. Most of the bitching about new movies seems to be coming from a place of politics and/or weapons grade nostalgia. As some who whines endlessly about DBS, I should know.
@@Fooacta Fair point lol It's all ridiculously dumb, I just can't get into the new SW movies broski. I wanted to, but it's like you said, vapid. I love the prequels though, I won't front. In all honesty, Idk If I'd be ready for a Dragon Ball without Akira just yet. I'm still consistently entertained by the tone of his recent stories, and I've long since excepted that we will never experience anything as epic and magic as the Demon King Piccolo or 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai arc again. Ever since then he's pulled out retcons and become more reliant on gimmicks while upping the scale and power of the characters and while that worked for most of Z, it became almost a campy parody of itself from Buu onward. I like that whole campy thing. The light-hearted tone like "fuck it, this would be fun. run with it" . But, there's always the folks who are what I like to refer to as the "Blood, guts, and Rock the Dragon" guys who want things to be grittier and more serious. Long drawn out arcs where the stakes are real big. I don't care for that approach so much in DB and I worry that without Toriyama, it could go that way and lose the light-hearted aspect. TL';DR I don't want DB or new writers to take itself or product too seriously. Toriyama good 'cause no take DB too cereal.
Im planning on drawing my very own manga in the future and this helps me understand a lot about the whole thinking process besides the plot. thank you.
How about they fix Dragon Ball Super as a franchise. Literally the worst Anime I've ever watched, but kids can eat this shit up like it's nothing. I want a comprehensive series, not this power rangers/ dangling keys/ big explosion = good times bullshit.
If you want to support future videos and this channel: www.patreon.com/TotallyNotMark
I will never hide my videos behind a pay wall. This is only for those that would like to lend a hand! Love you all!
Would support you but too broke
Finally found your patreon :3
Just joined you patreon and im honored to be in it :3
@@andsuku7001 I can't tell you just how much I appreciate that! Thank you genuinely so very much.
What brand of pen is that your using at 0:02? I ask diff people all the time but never get an answer.
These manga videos are just the best things you've ever done and I love them to pieces.
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
You mean the ONLY 2 VIDEOS?! And no there ant the best videos ever
Foreshadowing of a Totally Not Mark manga video animation breakdown!??? Lol
Nope
Oh no no Toyopacobros... what is this?
Toyotaro just continues to put the BS in DBS.
Beautiful
Lol Gohan>>kefla ssj2 even though kale was rocking gokus and Frieza's shit 😂😂😂😂
Yeah it’s going downhill pretty fast and at like Mach 20
Nope, the anime is equally shit.
@@blackshadowx7 I respectfully disagree but to each their own
I don’t blame toyotaro for the shortcomings of dbs. I blame the ones who made the executive decision to give him the lead. I mean for crying out loud, he wasn’t even a working professional manga artist. I understand they wanted to give him a shot because they were impressed by his work. But they could have just given him a dragon ball spin off or something, not a whole bloody sequel to the most beloved anime franchise of all time. An illogical and unprofessional move on their part.
Even if he was green when he started, he should have been able to make improvements over time. He's still got the same problems.
He started off with Dragon Ball Heroes Victory Mission, so they did test him. They saw what he could do, so they gave him the job. You can’t be mad at that, but he can improve. He SHOULD want to improve, and I noticed a decline in his work in recent years. His Toyble stuff is better.
Thank god most of the plot points are still drafted by Toriyama and we have the anime. Or at least, I prefer the anime to the manga.
Ironically the underdog usually wins in Manga, but not real life.
Yeah, and the pressure of being a part of something so dear to everyone's hearts, would have caused him to believe that his works may not be good enough to impress and so he'd be more willing to take those lazy shortcuts, just hoping that nobody finds out. The pressure of approval by the fans may have caused him to feel he can't do it on his own and so he'd rely on things like lazy composition and even referencing some images from other comics/mangas.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it....
A quote that won't be used in this video
If it ain’t broke, let it stagnate and become boring.
If it ain't fixed don't break it
Probably because it is broke
If it’s broke, buy a new one.
@@jerryborjon I mean... If it becomes stagnated and boring, then that means somethings wrong with it, meaning that it's broken right?
You know. You are probably my favorite DB youtuber right now and I do not regret turning on the bell for your channel.
Nope. Geekdom101 is the best db TH-camr.
Adam Rangel pssst, people can have different opinions
Adam Rangel
That's your opinion. It's just unfortunate that your opinion is wrong.
If you kept on doing this you'd basically make Dragon Ball Super Kai.
I won't let you destroy my world ._.
aaah :/
that's my bulma :|
Jere Kreivilä kamehameha :- |
I WILL NOT LET YOU DESTROY MY WOOOOOOORRRRRRLLLLD
I am vegeta prince of all saiyans:|
I'm loving these videos not cuz of the criticizing of the DBS Manga but more so cuz its intriguing to see these fixes as an artist myself. Most of the mistakes Toyo makes, I do them unconsciously too so seeing this is kinda like a learning experience for me. I'm learning a lot about comic book/manga making from these videos.
Thanks Mark!
Florintech you’re not alone.
Storytelling and composition are the 2 most important visual parts in a comic book, and nearly 70% of all comic book artists\mangakas don't use them or don't know them. Plus the vast majority of writers and scenarists have literally NO IDEA on how to use them, and editors just don't know shit about the medium they're working in most of the times.
I'm a semi-pro comic book artist(getting there lol) with a true love for composition and storytelling, and it's a pain to even try to apply these concepts when you have to piss off an entire team of people, because you need to change this and that.
You should also check out plague of gripes
At this point the DB Super anime is a lot better. Toriyama is a master at his craft, his work literally moves "on the page." It's hard to match. His manga tells the whole story by just looking at it. Toyotaro is good, but he can not tell a story by just drawing like Toriyama can.
Toei are the ones who execute the story, Toriyama writes what he wants to happen, the rest is Toei, the most Toriyama has ever done in a story was in this DBS Broly movie and we see how good it is.
Or will be...
😂 You do know that toriyama has very less control over it??
Tf? Toryama doesnt do much for the anime
I'm talking about toriyama's manga.
Gosh, how am I just now seeing this video? I personally feel that most of the points you made are stem directly from Toyotaro's beginning as a simple fan-fiction artist. I have noticed that, seemingly, every single major DBZ fan-manga work on the Internet uses copy-and-pasted poses from Toriyama's work throughout the ages. As someone who grew up adoring Dragon Ball (I've read the entire manga start to finish over twelve times) and studied comics and sequential art, it gets REALLY annoying when you straight up recognize entire panels having been lifted from the Dragon Ball manga. It immediately ruins my immersion into their manga.
I don't mind Toyotaro, personally, but it IS clear that he is unrefined and the manga studio who employs him has no interest in spending time improving his work when they can instead spend time having him produce more work. And you're right, he does recycle the same shots and reactions over and over, which is why I've had little to no interest in revisiting the Dragon Ball Super manga, unlike Dragon Ball. It's a shame, really, that Dragon Ball Super's manga and anime both seem to suffer significantly from the never-ending break-neck speed.
6:04 goddamn Mark, that "fixing" you did was phenomenal ,dude . I legit would buy a full manga edited like that
3:04 Oh god that page was gloriously bad xD Togashi pls.........
Still love HxH though
That my problem with HxH. Its like it wasnt supposed to be a manga all together but a novel instead. I still love it but damn...Togashi.
@@emmanuelmondesir1314 Yeah the manga is horrible in terms of drawing quality and paneling but the story telling is almost unmatched. Madhouse animated the series so incredibly well it's almost hard to believe it exists. Best from both worlds I guess.
i've see people fighting tooth and nails defending togashi for what he's doing recently ( ofc not talking about the content of the chapters which is amazing....but how he's presenting it)
i'll never understand some fans lol............i mean hell kurapika is missing his nose most of the time
i mean it's kinda not his fault that he wrote the most complicated scene in all of manga. Like the stuff talked about is so esoteric and complex you can't even draw it so i feel like he was just like "fuck it. You're reading a book now."
@@yiangaruga4928 I disagree. That page could've been better of course, but overall Togashi's paneling is pretty great. I'm not an expert with this stuff, but they're generally pretty easily to follow, and he can emphasise the strength of certain panels wonderfully. The large amount of text can mostly be credited to fan translations. For example, the page Mark showed had over 500 words in its fan translation, but VIZ's translation only had 360. Reading the official translations is a must for a work with this much text. His drawing quality isn't amazing, but its pretty good and consistent this arc.
1:34
Can we just get an entire series where every character's voice is pretty much normal, but Goku's voice is entirely Text-to-Speech?
Something else that needs to be touched upon is his writing. Which has been seriously lacking for a while now.
He makes such odd story changes and does weird things with characterization.
I mean in the anime of the TOP arc when 17 is seemingly killed 18 is distraught and cries. But in the Manga she's way more reserved and it has less impact.
Lets not forget the weirdness that is Master Roshi being able to dodge and stand against Jiren and how Goku going UI is achieved.
Matthew Hilliker yea i agree man, i thought the manga was gonna flesh out the characters a bit more such as Tien and Krillen but maaaan, its just become real boring
It's so bizarre.
I remember when people would say that the manga was better than the anime and now it's the opposite.
@@Manfromthenorth0551 I think the future trunks arc was in several respects better in the manga but now the manga has fallen so far...feels bad.
@@iosefa89 "flesh out then and krillin"..................w...wtf... WTF is this 😂😂🤣😂
Flesh out krillin and tien 🤣🤣😆😆😆😂😂🤣🤣😆😂😁😏
@@Manfromthenorth0551 the manga was never better imo
I swear, that manga about Yamcha is better than Toyotaro's.
That manga is drawed by Dragon Garou Lee, and he's fuckin good.
Also, his DB x OPM manga shows he can do combat and composition almost as well as Toriyama and Murata.
Agreed... To me dragongarowlee should be doing the super manga...
Dragon Garou Lee does a better job at replicating Toriyama’s style than Toyotarou 💀
this make me apperciate one piece and oda a lot more
20+years and still peaking
Oda sometimes has very busy pages(I like them, but I heard many people complain about them) but he's still at the top of his game.
Like Toriyama, he still storyboards the pages and inks the characters himself, letting the assistants do only backgrounds, effects and inanimate objects and it shows. What you see is still 100% him and every composition is still 100% him, unlike many other mangakas(looking at you Kishimoto).
I don't know how the fuck he does it(20-22 pages per week baby, Toriyama couldn't produce more than 13-15), but I love him.
@@DeadKraken Yeah, there have been many times when I couldn't tell what was happening in a page because there was seemingly so much cluttered in it.
One of the most prominent examples that comes to mind at the moment is the Marineford war, specifcally whenever Whitebeard or Blackbeard used the Gura Gura no Mi/Fruit powers.
Because Oda knws how to tell a story... Just doesn't make a flashy manga
The man knows that a good story is not only about fighting and power levels :V
He really is incredible. I somehow am ALWAYS able to understand what he draws, despite sometimes having crowded pages.
He sometimes uses a lot of pannels in one page, but still it's still easy to understand what is happening, at all times.
To compare him to another mangaka, Horikoshi often uses few large pannels in his pages, but still I often find myself not understanding what I am seeing/I should be seeing, at least once per chapter
@@nuredingeziqi679 I have that problem as well with Horikoshi. Especially with his recent chapter.
Mark: *Shows that toyotaru copied from the dbz manga*
Me: OHOHOHOHO that has no effect on me... BECAUSE I SKIPPED DBZ AND WENT STRAIGHT TO THE DBS MANGA!!
r/madlads
10:54, Stellar advice, every wannabe; cartoonist, sketch artist, Inker/painter, and animator listen to that part please!!! - Well done Totally Not Mark. This generation has way more access to stuff my generation didn't, so *USE IT* cos you're so empowered, like no other generation beforehand.
So basically...
Toyotaro just needs too do what he did with his MUI reveal and streamline his panels so they don't become cluttered.
TH-cam: Mark has uploaded
Me: insta-click
that is the same thing I did! Saw this and HAD to immediately watch it!
Is this a reupload?
@@finalphoenixable No. It's a brand new video. It has a first part, which he uploaded a few weeks ago
@@dragonzx100 Yeah I thought so but I accidently read your comment wrong and saw "REuploaded" instead of uploaded and I was a little confused😅
Dude how are you not at a million subs yet? You’re so talented and your videos are VERY well made. Keep up the quality content Mark!
Doesn’t mention the best mangaka of the late 90’s Rohan Kishibe!?!???
That would be an insult to Rohan...
But I heard that guy has no dignity
@@hoangnguyenthaile8148 artists need no dignity, dignity is a hindrance
One must be willing ti kill and lick a spider to understand it whether one is around or not
EVERYTHING FOR ART
Also
Inio Asano and Kentaro Miura?
ZA WAURDO
Glad to see your videos are coming back
You made alot of very excellent points Mark, It begs the question how can Super's Manga be fixed now? Is there anybody out in the Industry telling Toyo what he's doing is wrong or have the people he's working for that he needs to improve? Because I really like Super Manga and wish for it to do great.
If I remember right Toriyama's told Toyo on at least one occasion to dial that shit back but it looks like it never took.
I have been ready comics as long as I could read and toriyama's composition flow and pacing is among the best I have seen. It's truly amazing that you can read it backwards (as a westerner) and never feel confused about the flow of dialogue and sequence of events.
Dunno why this was kinda motivational fir me as someone who dreams of being a professional artist
Thanks Mark
I want to say dude, this is one of my favorite channels in recent months. I love when channels look into the depth of stories, their art, their writing, their design and critique and praise it for what it is. And the fact that you've shown Dragon Ball as something with more depth than transformations, fights, etc is awesome. Keep the content rolling.
But damn, Toriyama must be amazing when it comes to artstyle
Also, bell notifs are turned on
Are there any more channels that analyse like this? I need them
@@djjimmaster8261 Nux Taku analyzes anime and manga, Aleczandxr has really good HxH analysis, and Mathwiz analyzes as well.
So...what I’m taking away from this is that Mark is actually Godzilla
Who’da thought
We all suspected though.
These manga videos are my favourites, as an aspiring comic artist myself, it brings me so much joy to see someone else who's so passionate about the art of visual storytelling. Keep it up Mark!
Oh boy
I can already see the pitchforks and torches from here!
There's so much noise tha there's no visible background. It's so claustrophobic when he leaves it out. It's like they're fighting outside of time and space, just in a blank world where they only have room to punch
"If it's good, we largely dont notice it"
That in of itself is lowkey a problem too. Goes to show that most people tend to want to focus or find flaws and negatives to things and ignore or just dont acknowledge the positives. That's a really...peculiar and somewhat of a bad thing imo.
You are not supossed to notice the panel composition in comic pages, if you do than it's bad.
When people read comics they usually want to read the story, and so they focus on what they need to focus on, it's only when you read a second time that you start to apriciatte the work the artist placed on the drawings.
When you notice something in the composition when you are reading for the first time it means something is distracting you or you are not reading for the story and are just enjoying the drawings.
I have an amazing story. One day I was driving home and I felt the presence of the Lord, come down to me from above. It was as real as anything and I felt so comfortable with Him.
I knew if I asked Him to play a song on the radio, He would.
So I said "Ok Lord, play Come as you are..."
I didn't know what station it was on or anything, but I turned the radio on and the song started playing right on the spot, perfectly...
I started getting flooded with chills inside, trembling, and crying tears of joy. When I got home, He stayed with me for 10 minutes till I got out of the car.
Since then, I've been getting prayers answered wayyyy more often, because that experience made me stop doubting when I pray, and I follow Biblical instructions for praying, as best I can.
How to fix the DBS Manga: burn it to the ground and start from the beginning.
You could say the same about DBS in general.
@@superior2096 ehhh. Maybe the movie retelling arcs and the clone Vegeta mini arc. The other arcs are ok with the future trunks arc actually being really good in my personal opinion.
Can't fix everything with fire...
@@superior2096
Reboot. It's brilliant brilliant BRILLIANT!
Let's do that.
Scσяρισи Tнє Hєℓℓѕραωи Dude wtf??? Are seriously saying the Black Goku arc from the anime was “ok”??? 0_o
It was laughably bad lmao
As an aspiring Comic artist, I thank you for the many helpful tips Totally Not Mark. Your videos are rapidly becoming my favorites to listen to and watch as i work on my craft.
He's basically the Tadayoshi Yamamoro of manga composition.
Nah I got a better one for you he's the Japanese mastarmedia
@@angelmunoz4152Oh NO!!!🤣 You did not!!!! Not even Toyatoro deserves to be compared to that piece of tracing trash!😂😂😂
@@angelmunoz4152 Coming from a guy who's half black, I say that being called Mastar Media is worse than being called the "N" word😅
@@yahsworld2940 Ningen?
@@marshal8358 how dare you use the N word!!!
thanks for the motivation at the end :)
i like your crit of his work. it's very thorough and clear without trying to beat the man up. very well done. one thing for you though that is kinda a problem in your work editing his is, DON'T put art into the gutter! remember that this art is theoretically going to be printed in a book and bleeding into the gutter (the inbetween space where the pages are glued to the spine) cuts off alot of art in the printing process and generally makes the art harder to read. you do this at time frame 8:03. I would literally just flip the page on the right.
I'm french, and wow you're so far my favorite db youtuber, you help me to perform my english and i enjoy your videos btw, so thank you so much 👐
Your English, going off this comment, has better grammar than quite a few comments from English speakers online :) well done friend and thank you for taking the time to watch :)
Thanks, that's a pleasure :D
10:00 you know what would've made that panel better? Of Toyotaro put those two bottom panels on top and just slightly changed the way that scene would play out. What I mean is: Jiren being caught off guard by Goku's incredible punch, and bottom bigbpanel showing the impact. That allows us viewers to experience the shock value of Ultra Instinct. The way Toyotaro did it is just plain, basic and expected.
Well, you just put my feelings about Toyotaro's works into words perfectly.
There are so many manga with better composition. Hell, look at One's work, while his drawing quality is low, he has amazing abilities in both page composition (which I guess he learned a bit from Murata too), and story telling. There's also Mizukami's works, which always feel so great to read. Made in Abyss is another good example which uses a lot of textures but doesn't feel noisy when it shouldn't be, and when it is noisy, it's for a reason.
Huh I thought that 7:43 looks that way because that's how "modern" manga artist drew the page. I'm kinda making comic currently, and when I read a lot of "current" manga, they tend to drew the panels that way, moving faraway from the center of the book. Is that the wrong way to draw it?
No, that's just Mark not caring for the artist's interpretation is.
Some of my favorite artists do it too but Mark sees Toriyama doing it and assumes that must be the right way.
i THANK you from the bottom of my heart for the encouraging words at the end!
from one guy to another, youre awesome man!
It's a shame, because Toyotaro draws very very good, his problems aren't his drawings or designs, it's more composition, organisation and angles.
He has the potential.
Hazel 196 I am 100% sure that if he didn't have to rush the ToP to get ahead of the anime, the manga would be fking epic. Toyotaro is good but these deadlines are affecting his work.
@@tricko8000 I think that too. I'm sure that he could apply Toriyama's suggestions and his own talent much better if he had more time and space to complete each arc. He's not a "I'll produce 400 pages per week" kind of mangaka and this is clear, but he probably also has problems in working under pressure and in a limited amount of pages and time. I mean, if anyone had to cram 48 episodes of 26 minute each in just 9-10 chapters, it wouldn't look great no matter how much they try :\
LadyKraken Exactly, no matter who was in charge of the manga, it would be the same result because of these restrictions.
His excited for broly arc
Arman Vincent Romero Lol there won't be Broly saga in the manga, there will be a promotional mamga in December for the movie, like the one for the Golden Frieza movie. Next month a new saga starts, which takes place after Broly movie.
I'm commenting crazy late, but one example I kept thinking of while Mark referenced composition and paneling was Bill Watterson, the creator of Calvin and Hobbes. He's not a mangaka, but in the years of working with comic strips he often complained about the limitations of the funny pages format of panels and in his later years working on the series, especially for the Sunday papers where he had something closer to a full page to work with, radically experimented with what he could do with his panels and illustrations.
Damn this was a good video. But to be honest I don't mind if Toyotaro uses the same poses/shots if saves him some time, sadly he uses that time to cram in WAY too much in one chapter and as you said he uses WAY to much.
I can understand that he has deadlines like all manga artist do, especially now since I heard that the manga is supposed to go straight into the Broly arc after the ToP is over.
I'm thinking that Toei wants to have the manga have a head start so that Toyo doesn't have to try and retell an entire arc in three chapters. He should have plenty of time before the anime returns.
Yes, I think it's obvious he's been told to finish the ToP before the movie comes out, so he can get ahead of the anime and promote the Broly movie.
I actually like toyotaro’s anatomical structures as art.
What an informative video! Thank you for taking the time making this video. I always knew there was something off about toyotaro and I so hope he improves over time, so someone explaining his faults in a calm matter is very refreshing.
As someone who aspires to do their very own webcomic, this gave me some good notes to have in mind while making pages for it.
Keep up the good work Mark!
I hope he talks about other manga authors and artists and how there so great at what they do,I know I'd watch.
* throw it in a garbage can *
There, fully fixed.
Thank you Mark! You're one of my favorite TH-camrs right now and this video was very informative for me. I myself am planning to do comics soon and I'm so glad I got to see some handy tips ahead of time!
I want to love Toyotaro's work he's done for Dragon Ball and the Super manga but as you stated in your videos, he has a lot of faults holding him back from being so.
I applaud the amount of research you put into this video and putting examples outside the spectrum of Dragon Ball. I only hope that your viewers(including myself) will take your advice to heart and keep it in mind for our own comics. I'm looking forward to more content on your channel and videos like these. Never change, Mark!
Kick ass vid. There is a lot to be leant from your video, toyotaro's character waists are too thin as well. I wish they would let all the dragonball shows and mangas a chance to breath. Slow the pace down, it all feels rushed. Fingers crossed for dragon ball super broly.
mark I just wanna say thank you, ive been wanting to draw a manga for a while now and this really really inspired me! ive been watching you for probably like 2-3 years and your a mega inspiration, thank you and once I finish my first manga book, ill try to reach out to you to get some criticism
How the hell did this guy to be the one writting the DBS Manga? I can understand some homages, but this grade of copy paste it's just disrespectfull for every true artist.
You mean like what Takahashi does?
his homages aren't copy and paste, line them up and you'll see they are unique. Lazy? Perhaps, but they are his own.
its still lazy though
@@Amplifymagic Yeah I know, but doing homages to epic artist it's very different to copy the characters poses and repeat them over and over, just because you don't know how to draw the human anathomy by yourself.
@@patonnight Toriyama used to reuse and copy poses all the time as well. Dragonball has been cannabolizing it's own art for a while now.
i can't get enough of this channel, your content is amazing. you're definitely one of my favourite channels out there.
I love this video and I love your content Mark, you’re brutally honest (in a good way) and you’re so nice and a good person for trying to motivate people, you’re a fricking saint man.
Now that chapter 61 is out, a lot of the issues you mentioned are becoming really apparent. And that's not even mentioning the dialogue. It would be really awesome if you did a video about Toyotaro's understanding of the dragon ball world and its characters and how to fix these issues.
Yeah communicating through imagery is an essential component in any visual medium (comics, film, animation, ect) It’s unfortunate that Toyotaro seems challenged and unconfident in communicating a story through his illustrations and also relies heavily on dialogue which can often times feel superfluous :)
As a person who wants to become a mangka in the future
This is an amazing video
Thank you so much mark
Oh wow same bro I believe in you and don't give up
7:46 Says Toriyama uses box structure and doesn't bleed off the page, shows shot of Toriyama art not having borders and bleeding off the page.
I know right.
The images are not to busy, so they are easy to understand.
@@mariateixeiraantunes6005 Yeah, not to mention the characters are not cropped off by the panels, so it doesn't feel like you are missing any important information.
Mark as a director for the DBS manga would make it so much better
Nice video man I agree with the points at the beginning
not with any at the end?!
@@Goken shush my friend
I recently went back to read the Dragon Ball manga after finishing Dragon Ball Super manga. And I asked myself one question : Why is the original manga so enjoyable to read? I noticed that whenever a character talks, it's not boring and I don't find myself wishing for them to shut up ( which I normally do ) And I thought about everything you mentioned in this video. Not to mention that in every panel where someone talks, you'll always find a character doing something funny or being cute, and that helps a lot to make the pages feel energetic and fun to read.
what i’ve learned from this video. Toyotaro’s work stinks and itches.
That's 2 for 2. As an aspiring manga artist, your channel is an absolute gold mine of good advice. You just became one of my favorite channels on YT.
You were getting messages about dbz in Xhamster?
I really enjoyed your previous video about the manga, so it’s great that you managed to make follow-up that is as enjoyable as it is inspiring. This video and its lessons has to be seen by as many manga or comic book fans and artists as possible.
Start a fund to get Mark to restructure Super.
I think i'm about to cry for those lasts words *sniff*...excuse me
This Video is so helpful and inspiring for mangakas or any comic artists. I know it doesn't have to do with the rest of this comment, but rest In Peace Stan Lee, you were one of the best comic book artists and a lovable nerd, we will never forget you❤️
This video actually taught me a lot about good manga writing and just manga in general. Great video👌🏻😁
The manga adaptation felt smarter. The anime had too much room for fan service.
James V Kalabacas well the manga tried fan service and failed miserably
that is kind of completely unrelated to the video
Thank you for making this video. Your last video on the manga really struck a cord with me and now when I read any manga I look at the way It's been presented and I quite enjoy doing so.
DBS is more about quantity over quality & that's what makes it bad. Not all the time but DBS seems like it's being written by a fan into a bad fanfic... WAIT A MINUTE!!!
Arryndosk Raven facts
Is it really even quantity over quality? It's a monthly manga and yet, for example, My Hero Academia totally shits on it despite being released weekly. I think it has more to do with Toyotaro being incompetent, I have no clue who tf thought that making him the one to continue one of the biggest series of all time was a good idea.
@@BlackSalamander439 When I said quantity, I was referring to him adding to many scenes / pictures. He'll draw the same scene up to 4 times. He'll even reuse poses & uses way to many intense line scenes too. My point is that less can be more. Cluttering the page with shit isn't a good idea.
You mean both the anime And the manga right? Because I swear, there were times I almost dropped the series for some time due to how bad the writing was when the anime was airing
the first vid really resonated especially if you're an action junkie like me that loves making fight scenes in comics n reading action comics
Did not Akira Toriyama tell him to decrease the texts and images?
Yee but I also don´t always do what my boss told me if in my opinion it is right or better my way. I guess Toyotaro thinks the same way additionally hes an successfully mangaka so he might not wanna hear critics :/
Yes but in this case he is taking over something not creating it. He should listen to his boss. Well it’s just my opinion of course.
@@finalphoenixable he probably feels pressured to put in a year worth of anime content into his rushed monthly schedule. Without hte new movie deadline by December in place for the new arc he might do better now.
@@Amplifymagic People always forget about this. He's shit at composition and storytelling, this we know, but he also has a list of things that need to happen before a certain deadline and can't waste anytime in developing things more than needed, and this was absent from Toriyama's schedule when he was working on DB. It was the exact contrary infact, he didn't even plan stuff, his editor was probably the only person pressuring him on something, while Toyo has the entirety of fuckin Toei and Shueisha pushing for new stuff to come out.
@@DeadKraken agreed, the original manga was a natural product. The current franchise is a merchandise vehicle with strict guidelines that need to be towed.
Thanks for the video man. It's very helpful stuff. Keep up the awesome work! I always look forward to seeing what your next video is gonna be. Also the message at the end has gotten me fired up to draw again, thanks!
Can someone tell me how weekly manga artist have more creativity then one that's release monthly?
Legit answer with no sarcasm or anything:
Probably because their series hasn't run on for as long as Dragon Ball. The longer something goes on the more things solidify as the rules or tone or whatever become more and more set and you have to try to stay consistent.
That's why shows like SpongeBob (though it sounds like it got better) lost its magic running for 20+ years straight. You just start to run out of new ideas while under the umbrella of one IP.
@@popstarchamp maybe but one piece has been going on for how long and its still good. then again I don't think Oda's human... never mind your point still stands.
Because they're professionals, and professionals are used to work under pressure, it's the first thing you'll learn in any good art school or in your very first job in the comic book\manga industry.
Clearly Toyo is not a professional and has problems mantaining quality while under pressure.
Limitations breeds creativity.
@@weathermangohanssj4 Also that
Toyotarou is a good manga artist for show how fast they fight
TNM is the best DB TH-camr.
Don’t @ me.
@
@@Peteaguy lol
Objectively false since Geekdom and TFS exist.
@@jamainegardner4193 this guy is way better than geekdom. My favourite moment from geekdom is when he explained with his usual smug way why friezas design was different in one of the trailers for broly. Only for it to be a mistake!
Tnm actually creates with his videos. Geekdom just explains shit
It's back!
Another great video Totally Not Mark, thank you.
What is your opinion on too much text in a manga? Personally, while text is the backbone to any story I find too much to be distracting.
One Piece and One Punch Man, for examples, I find that they sometimes have too much redundant text for characters that are irrelevant in the next few pages. When I was catching up with these series I was able to determine what was relevant and what wasn't. While all this text is great for world building and can entice new readers to be feel as if they knew this world all their life it can take away from, what I feel, as the main story.
Story is the backbone of story. And story isn't limited to just text.
I know it's an old video but it's akira fault not toyotarou's
2:28 piccolo dabs
I really loved the way you putted together.
The main reason why I think the manga is bad is due to poor sourcematerial.
and Im not talking about the anime (even though its much worse in terms of story) I mean Toriyamas notes.
Toriyama never was a strong writer, hes a fantastic artist whos a genius at conveying motion and outstanding in paneling his pages.
But his writing is godawfull.
Which is the reason why most of the writing in the original Dragonball manga was done by his editors (mainly Torishima which he consulted even when he wasnt editing the manga)
Thinking that Toriyama wrote Dragonball is a missconception and hiring him to write super was a marketing stunt at best, if he would illustrate the manga and the writing would be done by someone else, Dragonball super would be much less of a mess than it currently is.
As always, learning a lot from your videos. I will definitely use this info for my own comic/manga.
Mark you the GOAT. Strait pulled up and fixed a manga. damn.
It's nice to see Toyo's art and panel flow has been improving in recent chapters, but I really wish they would've had Toriyama at least do some super basic layouts for him and let him and let him fill in the rest.
Tori spends a day or two making the chapter layout, Toyo draws it from there, Tori critiques and then it's cleaned up.
if toriyama oversaw toyotaro drawing the dragon ball super manga and commented on what he should change in terms of layout, that would probably make the dragon ball super manga flow a lot better.
@@ProjektTaku Big time. We've see what happens when Toriyama just writes the story without being interpreted by Toei or Toyo. You end up with Broly, the best DragonBall movie to date.
@@redkingrauri3769 I'm not saing toriyama should just write and draw the dragon ball super manga, but give toyotaro some more oversight. But with the moro and granola arc (which have the most involvement by toyotaro) he's improved massively.
@@ProjektTaku Moro left me lukewarm at the end. The final blow didn't feel like DragonBall to me. The granolah arc has been feeling like it's going on too long.
@@redkingrauri3769 well, you are entitled you your own opinion. I personally love how the moro arc was structed and how everything came together. And the granolah arc perfectly continued on afterwards, and granolah himself is one of my favorite villains. Overall, I consider them the best dragon ball super arcs so far!
It would take an iq way over 9000 to fix this manga
Edit: Well Mark you’re pretty damn smart
Also Dragon Ball as a whole.
It's intentionally messed up.👐
PopstarChamp source?
@@angrydaniel2905
Sorry, when I said "intentionally" I meant it FEELS like the reason behind a certain decisions was to mess stuff up it's so bad.
Though while I doubt Toei or Toriyama or whoever is intentionally making the writing have bad elements for the specific reason of messing stuff up, I have heard multiple times from multiple people, including Not Mark himself, say that Toei imposes really unfair challenges on the production of the series. Like rushing it out (which explains early season animation troubles) or forcing in new characters into the story (more Androids and Cell back in Z and Kale in Super).
So I don't think there's any intentional sabotage going on. Just greedy business decisions.
PopstarChamp well, for the record, Dragon Ball is messed up, but they still fits together. It is normal to see if power level or the scale get out of hand from time to time because Akira Toriyama said that he made the story up along the way with no long-term plan. Case in point: Great Ape simply meant to be similar to the transformation of a werewolf.
I’m really liking these DBSuper manga critique videos.
You guys are giving so much shit to an artist who is being forced to do the story a certain way. I'm sure if Toyotaro had complete control over the series, he would take things at a slower pace and take time to crank out good material. However, Toyotaro is nothing more than a marketing tool. He and his manga are simply used as marketing material for DragonBall anime, as opposed to he telling his own story. The last few chapters have been "bad" because he is being forced to quickly wrap things up in time for the Broly movie. So they can use his manga as a marketing material for the movie just like they did with Resurrection F.
The problem is Toriyama, to be honest. Everyone praises the shit out of him but it's his involvement that really screws up BOTH the anime and manga. Or rather, his lack of involvement. I’m thankful to Toriyama for creating and giving us this franchise what we love so much, but he needs to go. The same way George Lucas had to go for Star Wars to be mildly watchable again.
Toriyama isn’t invested enough in the series. He’s happy to provide bullet points for TOEI and Toyotaro but that’s about it, and the anime and mangasuffers for it, because both TOEI and Toyo have to half-assedly fill in the rest. Aside from Bardock, I’ve yet to enjoy a TOEI-only DragonBall plotline or concept.
I want a cornerstone who has a young person’s passion for this series and I believe Toyotaro is currently that person based on his current work. Someone with passion and willingness to have creative control over the whole thing and not Toriyama who just provides an outline of a plot and happily goes back to his semi-retired life while TOEI stumbles trying to create something worthy.
Let Toyotaro take over full creative control of a post-Z manga series, and after a few years of manga content TOEI can then adapt it into the new anime series with Toyataro as an advisor so there’s flow and consistency between the two instead of this disjointing of the two we currently have thanks to Toriyama going “And then he gets blue hair!… you guys figure out the rest.”
I’ve read that in interviews Toyotaro has been called Toriyama’s “chosen successor”, but he still has to play by the rules of plot points given to him. He's not a successor at all, he's just trying desperately to fill in the gaps of story beats given to him by Toriyama. He doesn't the freedom to exercise his writing talent completely. The amount of exposition Toyotaro has to include in his panel are directly because Toriyama over-complicates the Super storyline by being too damn vague and not taking more charge of it. Toyotaro has to compensate for this vague bullet points by trying to make sense out of it with more dialogue.
It's like this. Imagine someone gives you a powerpoint presentation, with only slide titles and it's up to you to create something out of those slide titles and make sense of them. You have no choice but to put many bullet points and photos of graphs that you THINK explain the slide title. And because you want to make sure you covered everything and didn't miss the point of the slide title, you over crowd it. Now imagine you are given full control and YOU get to create the slide titles. You are not longer bound by someone else's mind and trying to decipher their message. Now YOU get to tell your own message. Toyotaro does not have the freedom to create his own storyline. If he could, he would probably take the recomendations of Toriyama and do less.
Let's take one of your first complaints as an example: you say there is no establishing shot. That's because there isn't time for one. Toyotaro is being forced to wrap things up in just a few chapters in time for the Broly movie and to start the new arc that he has no time or space to BREATHE. He can't tell the story he wishes he could tell; he can't take his time to let the scenes breathe because he's not given the time.
Take Toriyama away and take those restraints off of Toyotaro. The guy’s young, passionate, has a good grasp of the DragonBall world and most importantly can provide a fresh new take on DB rather than just relying on concepts from the past. Not to mention he probably knows DB better than Toriyama as he’s infamously known for forgetting series concepts/characters he’s introduced and keeps retconning (which have become the reasons for many fan frustrations).
DBS is almost fan-fiction level anyway, so why not let someone who created fan-fiction out of love and passion for the series take over.
Of course I don’t see it happening as money is the only language anime studios speak.
I leave with this, an interview excerpt:
“Toyotarō:
Ultimately things need to head towards the conclusion indicated by Toriyama-sensei‘s original draft, but during that process I want to give various characters things to do… At times like that I depart slightly from the script, but I guess you could say I’m faithful to its essence.
Toriyama:
I welcome it! After all, you know far more about Dragon Ball than I do.
Toyotarō:
Well, my goal is to be the No. 1 fan (laughs). Still, it’s not just about my desire to give various characters a chance to shine; there are also times when this sort of thing is necessary to arrive at the goal you’ve indicated, Toriyama-sensei. For instance, if the goal is for Goku to have a direct showdown with Zamasu at the end, I can’t simply have Goku reach that point in peak condition. There needs to be various twists and turns before the two can face off against each other. This time around in the “Future Trunks arc”, there were many such twists and turns that I created… though I was a bit uncertain about them…
Toriyama:
No, it’s better that way! I think it’s better to let your individuality as an author shine through, rather than just follow the path I set down for you. It would be unbalanced if it were all just my ideas, so it’s better like this.
Toyotarō:
While I tried not to take things too far afield, I certainly did get to use many of my own ideas at points. Like thinking “wouldn’t it be interesting if Trunks trained in the Kaiōshin Realm, and had healing powers?”
Toriyama:
It’s definitely better that way.”
It is better that way Toriyama. So make it that way. Retire and let someone else take over.
I agree with your novel. I've been using the George Lucas analogy for a while now and it's clear Toyo had some good ideas going even if the execution was off. I still think his panelling and composition is suspect but story wise he could make a much stronger product if he wasn't worried about sticking to Toriyama's outlines.
Shit, it's almost like Tori's cool with whatever Toyo wants to do, but as long as Toei throws him money he'll keep throwing out story beats.
@T-Doug It's not my fault if people have the attention span of five year olds. You either read it or you dont. You can choose to engage with me about my argument and opinions of what I said, but don't shit on people who are able to express themselves with more than one sentence comments.
Star Wars is awful now, but I get your gist.
@@Stephenguitar93 I've only really consumed EU (which varies WILDLY in style and quality) star wars media while being totally disinterested in the films. I finally sat down and watched eps 1-8 over the course of a few months. Gotta say, even with a solid understanding of the lore and themes, the OT is kind of boring, the prequels are comically bad, and the new trilogy is fun and visually exciting if not pretty vapid.
My conclusion: star wars is consistently pretty ok. Also dumb. Most of the bitching about new movies seems to be coming from a place of politics and/or weapons grade nostalgia.
As some who whines endlessly about DBS, I should know.
@@Fooacta Fair point lol It's all ridiculously dumb, I just can't get into the new SW movies broski. I wanted to, but it's like you said, vapid. I love the prequels though, I won't front.
In all honesty, Idk If I'd be ready for a Dragon Ball without Akira just yet. I'm still consistently entertained by the tone of his recent stories, and I've long since excepted that we will never experience anything as epic and magic as the Demon King Piccolo or 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai arc again. Ever since then he's pulled out retcons and become more reliant on gimmicks while upping the scale and power of the characters and while that worked for most of Z, it became almost a campy parody of itself from Buu onward.
I like that whole campy thing. The light-hearted tone like "fuck it, this would be fun. run with it" . But, there's always the folks who are what I like to refer to as the "Blood, guts, and Rock the Dragon" guys who want things to be grittier and more serious. Long drawn out arcs where the stakes are real big. I don't care for that approach so much in DB and I worry that without Toriyama, it could go that way and lose the light-hearted aspect.
TL';DR I don't want DB or new writers to take itself or product too seriously. Toriyama good 'cause no take DB too cereal.
I subscribed after you magically opened my artistic eyes
*Sees new video in sub box* Oh hi Mark.
I'm glad I saw this. I really want to be a manga creator when I grow up. I'm 14 and my art sucks, but I'll keep trying. Thanks Mark!
I know this will take you a lot of time but could you fix all of the tournament of Power chapters? xD
Im planning on drawing my very own manga in the future and this helps me understand a lot about the whole thinking process besides the plot. thank you.
How about they fix Dragon Ball Super as a franchise. Literally the worst Anime I've ever watched, but kids can eat this shit up like it's nothing. I want a comprehensive series, not this power rangers/ dangling keys/ big explosion = good times bullshit.
Amazing breakdown. Someone tag Toyotaro.