Fans: "Well I'm sorry but, none of this makes any sense" Toriyama: "Well of course it doesn't, none of this is actually happening" Fans: "...Huh?" Toriyama: "None of this is real" Fans: "What are you talking abou-" *wake up*
I gotta admit super had a great marketing team to trick idiot uninformed people and make the naïve ones believe akira wrote it and it was canon and wasn't just filler between the buu arc and last episode lol.....all to make money and all the suckers fell for it..so when they get mad why the anime ended or why the arcs reset at the end now they know they were tricked lol...way to invest all that time idiots in a show purposely created to make money off the brand yet not ruin gt lol...there you go thats what you get..you happy?.........like did people really think it mattered?..it was literally filler all the time @@a.liguria2698
@@razkable Correct, and that is because it is a midquel, not even a sequel... but of course, for the db fanboys (which unfortunately seem to be common) everything supposely touched by Toriyama is sacred and perfect.
Its really not if you think about it in the terms of a Martial Artist. Master Roshi has been training and mastering movements for well over a century. There’s a technique similar to Ultra Instinct that martial artists aim for. It doesn’t surprise me that he would have a insight of such a technique but not be able to pull it off. Its really cleverly done in the manga. It’s a damn shame Toriyama didn’t make it canon.
@@Fredd993 Master Roshi dodging like two punches isn't that big of a deal considering Jiren was clearly barely trying If Roshi knocked him on his ass it would be dumb But in reality it's a pretty good moment that has been labeled dumb by people who have only though about it on the surface level
1:10 Wait, who actually thought that scene in the DBS Broly movie when Goku goes SSB was him straining to use Kaioken?? I never even had that cross my mind watching that
Amalaric GoTH that’s what I’m saying! And yeah, that was definitely the vibe I feel was felt. It is odd however how in their choice of color they also decided to mix in the green aura (they did this with Vegeta as well). I chalked it up to the fact that because he was changing from SS (yellow) to SSB (blue) there was a mix of aura colors, but idk
@@silver7215 what if they actually find a way to mix SSJ with SSB and get something new entirely? Like both regular and god ki combined? or is SSB already doing that? I thought it only uses god ki :-/
Alex Tache as far as I was concerned, in Resurrection of F, the way they explained SSB is that they mixed SSJ with SSG to make SSB. There’s also the explanation that SSB is just attained by not expending excess energy like with regular SSJ forms and keeping it inside, having full control over their ki, which is why Goku said that’s the reason he could even stack Kaioken on top of that form. Honestly at this point though, I just enjoy the fighting and the story more so than focusing on all these explanations for the forms and whatnot
@@RPGNoZero god i hope not, I really hope the leaks are fake because we don't need any more forms, shame that they only care about money, so they know a new form will mean more toys and cards for the games
Or what parts of what flavor. The Goku Black arc in the anime is butts but the Tournament of Power is amazing; and in the manga is the other way around.
I find it easier to just think of DBS as having two canons - the manga canon and the anime canon. I could imagine a game that retells the DBS story to favor the anime canon, since the anime is far more popular in the west.
@@Ma1q444 The original author doesn't matter with canon. A LOT of stories being in new authors and creative talent, and their stories remain canon. Star Wars, for example.
This is true. The notes for Goku Black in his design sheet literally states he has a Super Saiyan form and the Rose form So yeah it's "canon" that Black has a Super Saiyan form
@@sergioambriz9338 I mean technically it didn't exactly retcon it, if you notice a few time skips occurred and chunks were missing. at best its like what was changed was actually just goku's departure time and bardock being slightly softer and actually being somewhat a father with being concerned about his son. but there was a time skip after goku got sent off and it showed bardock fighting frieza's forces in the stratos and getting nuked by the super nova attack. basically, the bardock special probably could have played out almost exactly the same aside from a few minor changes.
Xenoverse is the only canon element of the franchise. Cmon Mark, you should know this. Edit: Specifically the Super DLC (Including any movie character)
@@sbevexlr848 Ture, but it has no bearing on the "anime vs. Manga". Even if we got a 100% concrete answer on what is filleror not, there are still tons of contradictory ways that events played out (or didn't) that would make it impossible for both the manga and anime's versions of events to be true.
Only thing purely cannon was the script. Toyotaro however changed few elements for the manga version (+fan service) and same goes for Toei in anime (+++ fan service)
@@Marco-zf6eq Except that the manga sometimes did the same stuff as the anime months later. How is the manga supposed to be the canon if its ideas originates from the anime? 😂
That is in fact the way it is and always was even with the OG and Z series. This video is good at showing the differences between the two media, but he does not know what cannon and filler means. It's not beceause both of them tell something different that they are wrong or filler, they are just own iterpretations of the script they got and are both cannon in there own media form. its realy simple and the way you look at it, is basicly just how you should look at it.
The best filler in DB Super is the slice of life stuff. The baseball episode was fucking amazing. I'd legit enjoy a Dragonball-style baseball game after watching that.
Movies have never been cannon. Like ever. Regardless of who wrote it. There are tons of "filler" scenes and some characters written and created by Toriyama that have always been non cannon. I have no idea what he's talking about.
I feel like Dragon Ball Super is where the whole bit about stuff only coming directly from Toriyama being canon gets taken too seriously. The fact that he was willing to outline a general story without going into specifics seems to say that he was willing to let the gaps get filled in without canonicity really mattering, kind of like he was passing the torch while keeping an eye on things.
This, if you look at it, all the free to interpratation parts are not realy that important as wel. Its fun to see and read how two teams have different ideas about handeling it, and they ar just both canon in there own media.
"Filler" isn't relevant to either. The anime and manga do not have the same relationship they did for DB/DBZ where the manga was the original source, so that word has no real meaning to DBS. Because If both are based off the same notes but written differently, then they're both 2 different canon's with some similarities. Too bad the Broly movie kinda threw a wrench into all of that, but luckily it was vague enough to be passable for both without direct/glaring contradictions... BUT just because the manga pulled ahead doesn't automatically mean it's the true canon. If Akira is the one who wrote the outlines to the Moro arc, then we know the anime will do it in some form as well. And maybe they will go back to that similar 'manga source' formula when the DBS anime returns, but I doubt it. I have a feeling Toei will go their own way with the story. Of course now that it manga IS ahead, people will always assume the anime got their ideas from it, or at least the ones that are similar. Unless we get to see Akira's notes, we'll never really know.
To be fair DBS: Broly was much closer to the manga's canon than the anime's so I understand why most people think the former is now the only canon (it's also been called that officially... kinda)
Well the Moro arc almost has nothing to do with akira toryiama from what I’ve read and I can definitely agree with it. He has lost a lot of interest in the series which is why their is such a massive difference between the 2 cannons. Personally I think the anime is just better overall and ssb kaioken is easily one of the best moments in dragon ever
People get into such great debates about this. I think it's interesting, sure, especially if you want to get to the core of what you think the original author wanted, but even then, it's still very iffy in a lot of places. Let's say something isn't explained all that well in the notes, or barely explained at all - Toei or the manga may just omit it entirely if they feel it doesn't contribute to anything or if they don't like it. The opposite is also true. Like, you see what I mean? Something showing up in both may make it "canon" but just because it isn't in both doesn't make it "filler" either. It's been a while since I've seen it, but in the anime, doesn't present!Bulma get the fuel that later gets used for the time-machine from the Copy-Vegeta arc? If so, that arc is pretty important to the overall story of that version, even if it wasn't mentioned in Toriyama's notes. I'm rambling a bit and I'm tired, and I don't think it was Mark's intention to suggest so, certainly, because he's talked about both and likes pieces of both, but I think some people get too caught up with seeking out "pure Toriyama" in Super, either version. And that's a bit of a wasted effort.
@@jacobpicasso4016 I think you're massively confused as to how DBS works. The entire reason it happened at all was because Toriyama wanted to get back into it after the success of Battle of Gods and R-F, which he wrote. He's "written" (In quotes because both anime and manga take creative liberties) everything for DBS so far. The varying canon between the two has nothing do with him being uninterested, its just the two sides making it their own because he only supplied them with an outline to let them fill in the blanks, which is why there is variance between the two... so I don't know what it was you read that made you think he has nothing to do with the moro arc, but I can assure you he's just as involved as he has been from the beginning of DBS. Check your sources first. All I had to do was google it and I instantly found what I was looking for.
I'm so glad that you picked a remix of the Primal Dialga theme for the music in 14:07. I recognized it instantly, as I have many fond memories of playing Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time (and Sky, too). It's something small, but I do appreciate it! Also, if it was your editor that made this decision, then props to him for being awesome. XD.
It would've felt lot better if used against Fusion Zamasu since SSB wasn't supposed to become surpassed by Hit who should've just been getting by the match due to special techniques, not power.
Yo man, Toyotaro said that Vegetto wasn't part of the original outline by Toriyama, he said that he liked it from the anime so he decided to use it too. So this is an instance were it was present in both mediums but it wasn't canon by your standards.
but vegetto is canon in the original dragon ball manga written by Toriyama, so i see no issue of him being re-used in a new story plot. Its an old idea being reused. The introduction of vegetto is nothing as extravagant as super siayan blue evolution vegeta or perfected super saiyan blue form, which is entirely a add in creation. Super saiyan blue kaioken is debatable as i beleive Goku uses it in the manga against jiren, as krillin mentions it.
@@xcmet yeah, I mean the appereance of Vegetto is not canon in neither the manga nor the anime because Toriyama didn't included him in the original outline, which is the requirement that TNM is using.
@@vicl8257 I did watch the video. I'm simply disagreeing with it. I'm saying that the Super anime and Super manga are separate continuties and that they are canon. Even the small fillers are canon. You can't really talk about the anime being canon or noncanon to the manga when the anime came out first. Also if we're going to talk about continuity based off of Toriyama's notes, I'm sure the added plot ideas are canon as Toriyama gave Toei and Dbs Toyotaro permission to add what they feel, thus separating the continuities. Talking about the continuties and comparing them are redundant.
It sucks to not know precisely what Toriyma's notes were, it's all a guessing game. Even in the DBS:Broly movie half of the og Toriyama script wasn't adapted, I can imagine that something similar may easily happen to the notes for the anime\manga.
I just kinda disagree with the criteria of "if it's the same, it's canon", because there are some things both Toei and Toyotaro decided to do that weren't in the script, like Ultra Instinct Omen and Vegito for example. On the other hand, I still think the anime and the manga can complement each other in some areas. I think the manga made an effort to fill in some gaps in the anime's lore and went the extra mile to explain some things. I'd love to pick and choose things from each to be the true canon, like SSB Kaioken, and the way Zamasu splits into millions of copies. That reminds me, I think differences like those can be seen as Toei's and Toyotaro's interpretations of very vague script notes from the Tori-bot. Goku uses Kaioken/SSG against Hit: *"Goku uses red transformation we thought we'd never see again"* Zamasu fuses with the universe/creates a million copies of himself: *"Zamasu takes over the universe, he is everywhere"* I like the way Zamasu splits up like that, it's another similarity he has to Cell where every cell on his body remembers how to recreate his ultimate form, only much quicker, and each piece cut off creates a whole new copy. And the Kaioken? Too cool.
I agree i think he doesn't understand the word "canon" because like filler is still has recognition by the main creator and the main series so just cause the manga is different and told a different way doesn't mean some parts of the anime isn't canon
I'd say Super exists within its own canon to begin with. The DB manga ends with none of the Super concepts in mind because they never existed. This is either one massive retcon of the ending or it's non canon. I can't imagine it's just a very drawn out filler series.
Can you prove that Ultra Instinct Omen was not in the original manuscript? I've never once heard that claim. I know about Vegito; Zamasu originally equalled 2 SSBs.
I'd love to see someone take the good of the anime and the manga and make a really good dragon ball story seeing as both have their own highs and lows.
Because of Super's unorthodox creation, does the standard metric of cannon vs non-cannon really apply? Like, word/action of mangaka = cannon works for basically everything but this. If we follow only what Toriyama did as true cannon, then only the barest of bones in both the anime & manga are truly cannon. Right?
After thinking about it, I don't really think it does. I highly doubt that Toei or Toyotaro would go against the notes that Toriyama have written down. And the idea of a "bare bones canon" is weird to me. Tho i supposed you could view the bare bones canon as what Toriyama had intended for the series. At this point i treat them as seperare separate continuities. Both are canon in their respective timelines. Its just up to the consumer on which one they prefer to follow
@@weathermangohanssj4 But those elements are so few and nonspecific. And no one form, anime or manga, is entirely cannon of their own. That's never been done before.
@@exiledefconzero9729 I don't want Dragonball to go in that direction, but every great story will inevitably outlive it's creator and be inherited by others...
@@AndrewAce. Too late, Dragonball is all over the place right now. Majin buu fighting Moro, after Moro absorb both Goku and Vegeta along with his full power, after buu just woke up.
@@mrwilson5117 I've read little more than up until they arrive on Namek, I'm planning on picking it up again in a few weeks as one chapter a month or whatever They're doing right now is too slow for me... Either way, it's inevitable as I said. Maybe in 50 years time, Dragonball will be some expanded universe with dozens of writers and artists like it's Marvel or DC...
Welp. Nope sadly. Please dont live in a dream anymore. Heck how this headcanon alt timelines work since the ofc timelines didnt include your own headcanon timelines lol😂
This is even more relevant now that Daima's given it's own explanation for how exactly Kibitoshin defused, discarding BOTH the manga and anime's explanations for how and when it happened Also the Potara time limit for mortals exists ALONGSIDE Boo's insides being able to nullify Potara fusions
Would love to see you "Rewrite" DBS like you did the buu saga only with one rule that the events are only canon, and you would chose which "filler" events make more sense, in the manga or the anime or a mix of both, when there is unclearness what actually happen. That's way we can say what is actually Canon and go on and analyse through that. I think the Broly movie is a key to figuring out what is canon.
maaaan it really seems like toriyama doesn't give a shit anymore and that one day he could wake up on a bad mood and scrap all DBS like GT if someone offers him enough money :/
@@herrscherofisaf5592 monkaS i hope he doesn't see my comment and get ideas from it but yeah it would really feel shitty if we get invested in DBS just for it to be thrown in the trash in a few years :/
He said himself, and I quote; "Dragonball is all about fighting, nothing more. It is for children." While that isn't entirely the quote itself, it is something he pretty much said in an interview, if you search some of the keywords there. Also kinda fits in line with him being forgetful as hell, but anyways, Toriyama hasn't really cared about Dragonball for a long time. All it takes is reading the Manga of the Buu Arc and seeing some of the initial designs he sent over to Toei for GT to see that. Battle Of Gods was a one time thing, much like Super: Broly. I mean, for gods sake, the Universe Survival arc gets two shots in that movie. He doesn't care about these long form shows; it's clear he only cares for even trying with the movies.
@@nerkskerk8774 yeah :/ the fact that he tried to end it after the namec arc and was incited to continue Z 2 times (and the end of the android saga too was meant to be a possible end) it shows he was already done with it . but ngl i'm triggered by the fact that he give them the approval to do such things , like i'm fine with them doing gt/super or whatever , but everytime saying "toriyama took part in the story writting" when he spent like 5 min on it ... i'd rather he'd do something like marvel and dc do with comics where new people can come in and tell their own story and add to the canon , toyotaro might be able to give us good stories if he had no contrains
Honestly, I consider the manga AND the anime Canon, to their perspective timelines; dragon ball as we know isn't afraid to dip their feet in multiverse theory, both versions filler or not are Canon
That was before when the anime was on air when the manga was a promotional manga for the anime, but after the anime ended the manga is considered the official canon.
@@aimacmaster6197 Sorry, the manga has never been a promotional material for the anime, that has been one terrible misconception, and yet, people keep claiming that, even when there is no source out there. In fact, the first chapter of the manga came out 2 weeks before the first episode of DBS anime
@@wolfzeru5745 i think its more of also because the manga is still going to this day with the moro arc and the granolah arc. though this also makes the question of are they canon or is the dragon ball super. super heroes movie canon since thats an anime movie of the series that continues the story
Nope Manga isn't canon. It was confirmed after DBS Super Hero th-cam.com/video/EKKO4zKFfJU/w-d-xo.html Even Kaiyoken and SS Blue Evolution *might* not be canon as they were not created by Toriyama and did not show up in Broly movie.
It doesnt seem reasonable to assume the manga has more weight in canon than the anime anymore. They're just two different canons, otherwise you get most the show being filler but that's absurd. Filler can be removed and things still make sense but the filler in the anime now is consequential and can change the story. Besides sometimes the manga follows the lead of the anime when it falls behind
well what the creator writes should be held above all and the studio created material usually isn't good. not saying that applies here but usually, it applies to other series
@@sirmel11 I honestly am beginning to think Toriyama should be replaced unless he gets his act together. The Broly movie is a good start as it's been a long time since I've actually seen really good writing in dragon ball
It's important to have clear canon but when a writer leaves you with just vague outlines on a story you shouldnt place that much trust in it. We should be happy that others picked up his slack else the series would have literally be a husk
I thought Dragon Ball had bad writing around the Buu arc. That's when it started to drop. Toriyama then went on to just make 1 villain for each arc almost as if he was writing a movie. They need henchmen that are powerful and maybe a few with their own goals. That's what made the Frieza saga so good. I know the Android/Cell stuff was changed a lot but it should have been. Having two enemies for the whole arc is stupid. Buu, Beerus, Frieza, Zamasu, and Jiren. There's some henchmen in the Buu arc but they don't matter and eventually the arc is just Buu. Beerus is alright for a movie. Frieza's soldiers couldn't do much and one randomly killed Piccolo. Ginyu came back too which was stupid. The Goku Black arc was bad. It was just a back and forth fighting arc. Nothing of substance happened. We knew Jiren was the strongest before the tournament and there was no one there that could challenge him or be a surprise.
None of this really matters. The manga and the anime are acknowledged as two separate canons* and the movies are mostly their own thing, adapted to each to make them fit into their respective stories. As for what actually occurs in both mediums, as long as Toriyama contributes to and green-lights the main points at least it's canon* enough for me. But at some point the line blurs between what truly is and isn't canon*, especially as the original author/mangaka begins to move on. The only thing fans and producers alike can do is try to respect the spirit of the original work and try to go by that standard. At some point fussing over canon* becomes pointless...
Yeah, you got this right. It's two different cannons. People can't get over this so they say things like different timelines or go through some mental gymnastics to create what they consider canon, but it's just the way they are handling the property in the two mediums.
When I read the Universe survival saga after years of when I watched the anime I was heavily confused. So many differences immediately that made me question what even happened to the anime, like how kale had super speed in base, or how caulifa swiped the potara instead of them giving it to them to cheat. Also the fact that roshi helped Goku get ui, and gohan beating kefla into a draw. Very different and very weird
This was really cool but honestly I'll just go by 2 separate cannons so basically there's the anime canon by Toriyama + Toei and the manga canon by Toriyama + Toyotaro bcuz it makes life easier LoL but im gonna share this bcuz it's cool af
Yo Mark! A bit of criticism for ya. You should start putting the music you use in the video in the description. If you don't know and it's the editor putting them in, then ask them to give you the sources. For Example: I heard a Magus Battle remix in the Piccolo episode and couldn't find it in the description, and I heard a Dialga's Fight to the Finish remix in this video and it also wasn't in the description. I think it might help some people find some new tastes and music and also just referencing whatever sources you use never hurts, not in this case anyway.
Roshi should’ve lasted longer in the anime to show that roshi and the others are a useful and not randomly selected just to be in a cast, roshi has trained his whole life to martial arts, so showing that the tournament of power not only shows the strength but also the capabilities of its mortals, but that’s my opinion
I thought Roshi lasted as long as he should've. He's well below everyone else, and to be honest, Goten and Trunks would've made more sense filling his spot.
The term “canon” means nothing on its own, especially when it comes to Dragon Ball. I get that you defined it as the stuff Toriyama wrote, but like, you can’t write off stuff like the Jelly Vegeta Arc as “FILLER” when the Goku Black Arc directly references it, for instance. It happened, it’s part of the Super anime canon. “Canon to the manga”, “canon to the anime”, “canon to Kai”, this is how you use the term. Super isn’t canon to any of those things bc it has contradicted their continuities multiple times. It can only be seen as its own new canon EDIT: to further clarify, “canon” isn’t some adjective that can be used to describe something’s validity. “(not) canon to” = “(not) in continuity with” “canon” (noun) = “continuity” See, so saying “this thing is canon” or “this part is non-canon” has no meaning. It’s an incomplete statement, essentially. For instance-bear with me-many ppl will say “GT isn’t canon.” What they should say is “GT isn’t canon to the manga.” Other lil examples: -SSJ4 is canon to GT, but not canon to Super -Garlic Jr. is canon to the Z anime, but not canon to Kai (or the DB manga) -SSB Kaio-Ken is canon to the Super anime, but not canon to the Super manga Also since the Super anime isn’t directly adapting its manga like the first 2 DB series, terms like “filler” technically don’t apply to it. (although I get that when ppl use it, they basically mean standalone, slice of life, etc.)
TL;DR: your method is good for finding out the possible or even "probable canon", but it cannot be deemed 100% accurate. I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but do be careful about putting information out there without making it clear that it is YOUR interpretation... I know - we all know - that you're passionate about DB, but there are still things that would require some sort of "privileged Intel" if we were to have definitive answers. As much as I like your method for uncovering what is or isn't canon in DBS, there are still some presuppositions that aren't entirely reliable. For example, you assume that what is canon is what was written directly by Toriyama. Then you assume that whatever happens in both the DBS manga and anime was written by Toriyama. But it's impossible to prove that this happened at all times (it didn't). Toyotaro also gets in touch with Toei and for a long while the manga and anime weren't covering the same bits of story at the same time. What makes you think that NONE of the events portrayed in both forms of media weren't agreed upon by people other than Toriyama himself and he just gave it the "final blessing" if even that? Or that the first medium to present said events wasn't used as a baseline despite of Toriyama's drafts? Basically there's no way to tell EXATCLY what was written by whom. Another thing: just because some basic concepts from Battle of Gods didn't come from Toriyama, you preferred to almost disregard the movie? Even though Toriyama's involvement was much bigger during its production when compared to the DBS anime and manga? Oh, and there's also the paradox of the canonicity without a chain of events. I mean, sometimes the supposed (and incomplete) canon will take such huge leaps that it ends up contradicting itself if all possible interpretations are deemed filler. And what about when canon incorporates something later that was initially considered filler because it didn't happen in both the manga and the anime? There are some other stuff like varying levels of author involvement, retcons and info being confirmed/revealed outside of the main material like in interviews, but I think you get the point. I'm not saying that your criteria for canonicity is plain wrong, what I'm saying is that it's definitely not perfect, so you're bound to make at least some mistakes. Anyway, what I'm actually worried about is that you didn't even make a disclaimer and just seemed to assume this is 100% correct when there's absolutely no way to guarantee that. So much so that there's objective proof it doesn't always work.For example: we know for a fact that Vegetto's appearance in DBS wasn't in the original outlines from Toriyama, but he shows up in both the anime and the manga. It was "sanctioned" by Toriyama, sure, but so were many things considered to be filler. See the problem? Regardless of all that, thanks for your efforts! It does help a lot when it comes to the "probable canon", just be sure to make it clear what it isn't a perfect way to tell canon from filler. P.S.: 04:03 - was that a joke? 'Cause Toyotaro basically said that in an interview, didn't he?
3 canons because the DBZ anime leads to gt. Kai leads to super and manga leads to supers manga. Supers anime only uses kais accepted filler…and music and footage and voices ect
I believe that having a different anime and Manga Canon is a good thing. I generally like it when the anime is different from the Manga or when a movie is different from the book etc, as I see a different interpretation of the events that transpire(as long as it's executed well)
@@fridaynightnicktoons6885 if that’s how you see it sure. But in reality gt isn’t canon lol Toriyama gave beginning to ending outlines for the anime and manga. So both are their own separate canons
I had a thought for Broly that I think could have made him, or could just generally make for an interesting character. Think of him as essentially a power balloon. He's filled to burst with overwhelming power, so much so that it's nearly impossible for anyone to so much as scratch him or leave a mark, both due to him likely taking you out before you have the chance to and it just being very difficult to hurt him, but if you do he'll basically pop. I suppose you could also see this as a "glass canon" but the main idea is that all their power must be contained cause if there's an unintended way for it to escape, it's just going to come flooding out.
It's not flimsy at all. Anything that comes from Toriyama is canon. The parts of the DBS anime and manga that converge are a result of the story path that Toriyama laid out and are canon. Where they diverge means a third part injected their own idea of how the story should progress from point A to point B, ie filler. This video attempts to find a true, undeniable canon. What makes the manga more canon than the anime? What makes the anime more canon than the manga? There's no choice but to look for similarities and deem that the true canon.
@@StallionFernando The Anime and Manga are two separate identities, they don't come together, it just happens that the Broly Movie has the same exact events happen, they're literally just two different timelines/universes where things happen differently, Kaioken SSB is canon to the Anime not the manga, and Mastered SSB is a manga exclusive
Dragon Ball Super the anime and the manga are both canon. They simply follow two different continuities. What happens in the manga is as much an interpretation of Toriyama's script as what happens in the anime.
But if things are left up to interpretation then it all just becomes a jumbled mess of: Goku can stack Kaioken onto Blue. Goku can also go Mastered Blue. Goku can use Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan to fight Krillin, 17, Frieza, Toppo, and Jiren. Goku also knows Hakai. Vegeta knows Gamma Burst Flash. Vegeta can go Super Saiyan Blue Shinka. A Super Saiyan 2 Kefla can fight Ultra Instinct Omen Goku. Master Roshi can dodge Jiren. Etc. We want a simple timeline of events, not two stories under the same title that have some similarities.
It's just not Super, but Kai as well. Kai kept some of the filler material of the original anime for some reason. Not everything directly leads into Super. During the Resurrection F arc, Frieza is unaware of Goku fighting Buu when that was shown in Kai, which was filler. However, Ginyu taking over Bulma's body was kept in tact despite that being also filler.
the filler material kept in kai was there because it *couldn't* be cut for some reason or another- mostly because the animation wouldnt make sense if removed. for the buu saga, they kept some filler material for the dubs to placate funimation who wanted more episodes
@@caelinnis what even type of answer is that? Not mad at you or anything, but that answer from whatever you got it from isn't good and sounds more like a copout.
@@mandalorianhunter1 Well the most clear example of filler material being impossible to cut is Gregory. He doesn't exist in the manga and therefore is an anime-only creation, but since it wasn't possible to cut him from every single frame where he shows up or is referenced, they kept him in Kai.
@@uncouthLIyouth Or it doesn't suck and the haters are (obviously) just blinded by nostalgic bias. And I say that as someone who grew up with the original Dragon Ball in the 80's, yes the OG DB.
Nope it's canon this guy is just talking out of his ass. Mastered Super Saiyan blue and goku knowing the hakai is not canon going by his logic since not once are either mentioned in the anime.
Feel free to correct me if my reasoning doesn't sound logical but why would we assume that there is filler in the manga ? Because it isn't on Toryama's notes? Isn't the manga supposed to be the main source of any shonen series? Excuse my rudeness but hipotethicaly speaking when toryama passes away and Toyotaro inherits Dragon ball are parts of his future projects also gonna be filler because they weren't in Toryama's notes? As stated the notes are key points and imo the manga should remain mostly cannon (even though there are some things I don't agree with and the anime in contrast delivering some awesome fan service)...
The manga and anime of Super were made roughly around the same time. The anime isn't an adaptation of the manga, and in fact, the anime at some point got AHEAD of the manga, finishing the ToP by the time the manga was still on the Black Goku arc. Not to mention that other DB media uses Anime content rather than the manga.
I disagree with this video. I think there should a manga canon, and an anime canon. I consider everything episode of the anime canon in my own perspective of the Dragon Ball universe.
There is manga and anime canon, the way this guy is describing canon is wrong. Hes describing it as "Original author content is the only canon stuff." When in fact they are separate continuities that tell their own story, they are also legally licensed as dragon ball so they are canon.
To: Leap _________ "Licensed" is irrelevant in the canon discussion, DBZ movies are official product, that doesn't make them canon. The manga version is the closest to Akira's story, thus between anime and manga, clearly the manga is canon.
To: Neightrix Prime ___________________ The only dumb way of thinking here is clearly yours. #1) License means nothing in the canon matter, DBZ movies, DBGT, and even video games have it, doesn't mean the story there is canon. #2) There's clearly filler, you're blind if you can't see it, not only in DBS, but almost all anime, and no, in no way it defeats the purpose of entertainment media. #3) If Akira dies, the following canon has nothing to do with him anymore, he already named a successor, Toyotaro, the one filling the blanks in the manga.
Mark, I think it is best if you made this video together with Geekdom. Trust me, he loves the subject of what is actually canon in Dragon Ball and what isn't
@@Matt_Underwood You just said he loves talking about what is canon and what isn't and now you're saying he doesn't like talking about what is canon. Good one.
Toriyama is an old man, understand that, there are things he doesn't even remember, don't expect perfect continuity, just enjoy dragon ball. It doesn't matter if something is canon or not, it only matters if it's official.
No no no no no no no. NO. I will not accept that. You're saying that everything that happened both in anime AND manga is canon, but I will totally not accept half of series just.. not existing, because both sources are totally different.
Don't listen to anything this video says it's misinformation SSJB Kaioken is canon for the Anime, and SSJB is Canon for the manga they are literally two different timelines/universes
@@Alex-ft8bs Agreed. I'm not impressed with NotMark trying to decide what's cannon and noncannon when there isn't even any source material or a complete set of notes from Toriyama to go off of. This video is essentially pointless...
1:09 I respect that, remember episode 13 or 14 of SDBH, the one where Naotoshi Shida came back? When he went from ssj to ssjb, I thought he was going ssj3 from the prolonged yelling and the pose his body went in where he bends forward. I was disappointed, especially considering the brands respect of the form
The concept of canon usually devolves simply into what is depicted from the manga and what fits between, that was simply left off-screen in the original media... then there can be some minor differences, wich simply are version A, and B... the filler arcs, are a bit different, if they can fit the manga canon, I don't see any issue considering them such for the time being And then the Super fucks this up, by providing 2 storylines with their highs and lows, that are supposed both to be the main one...
Because they are each their own canons. Toriyama and all involved have essentially spat on the whole what is canon debate. Its all.just dollar signs to them, so just believe whichever you want to believe.
@@PathBeyondTheDark I want to believe that if the franchise shall be milked even after Toriyama's death, they'll retcon the super out of the storyline, or reboot it altogether... since they have wrote themselves in a corner with the powerscaling, and the super is barely a story to begin with.
This video destroyed my sleep cycle.
Can I get some F's in the chat for my social life?
F
Totally Not Mark That’s a bruh. F
F
I don't know if it's really filler since the manga is really based off the anime of super rather than the other way around
F
Fans: "Well I'm sorry but, none of this makes any sense"
Toriyama: "Well of course it doesn't, none of this is actually happening"
Fans: "...Huh?"
Toriyama: "None of this is real"
Fans: "What are you talking abou-" *wake up*
Can I wake up too from this universe where the modern age of db turned out ti be such a disgraceful dissappointment ?
I gotta admit super had a great marketing team to trick idiot uninformed people and make the naïve ones believe akira wrote it and it was canon and wasn't just filler between the buu arc and last episode lol.....all to make money and all the suckers fell for it..so when they get mad why the anime ended or why the arcs reset at the end now they know they were tricked lol...way to invest all that time idiots in a show purposely created to make money off the brand yet not ruin gt lol...there you go thats what you get..you happy?.........like did people really think it mattered?..it was literally filler all the time @@a.liguria2698
*Hears GT theme in the background*
@@razkable
Correct, and that is because it is a midquel, not even a sequel... but of course, for the db fanboys (which unfortunately seem to be common) everything supposely touched by Toriyama is sacred and perfect.
I’m sure that’s tfs bardock’s episode
Ultra Instinct Master Roshi against Jiren is Cannon in my heart
Fábio José it’s kinda dumb but I would love it if that happened in the anime
I think it represents the whole nature of Dragon Ball Super. It clearly sucks on so many levels but I love it and I can't stop to read it
Its really not if you think about it in the terms of a Martial Artist. Master Roshi has been training and mastering movements for well over a century. There’s a technique similar to Ultra Instinct that martial artists aim for. It doesn’t surprise me that he would have a insight of such a technique but not be able to pull it off. Its really cleverly done in the manga. It’s a damn shame Toriyama
didn’t make it canon.
@@Fredd993 Master Roshi dodging like two punches isn't that big of a deal considering Jiren was clearly barely trying
If Roshi knocked him on his ass it would be dumb
But in reality it's a pretty good moment that has been labeled dumb by people who have only though about it on the surface level
@@Phoenix-pb4sm I've looked at it in many ways but I still think it's dumb. You can like it. I know why people do
1:10 Wait, who actually thought that scene in the DBS Broly movie when Goku goes SSB was him straining to use Kaioken?? I never even had that cross my mind watching that
This lmao like....kaioken wasnt a thought and i dont see how it would be
Gale Misoki right!?
Amalaric GoTH that’s what I’m saying! And yeah, that was definitely the vibe I feel was felt.
It is odd however how in their choice of color they also decided to mix in the green aura (they did this with Vegeta as well). I chalked it up to the fact that because he was changing from SS (yellow) to SSB (blue) there was a mix of aura colors, but idk
@@silver7215 what if they actually find a way to mix SSJ with SSB and get something new entirely? Like both regular and god ki combined? or is SSB already doing that? I thought it only uses god ki :-/
Alex Tache as far as I was concerned, in Resurrection of F, the way they explained SSB is that they mixed SSJ with SSG to make SSB. There’s also the explanation that SSB is just attained by not expending excess energy like with regular SSJ forms and keeping it inside, having full control over their ki, which is why Goku said that’s the reason he could even stack Kaioken on top of that form.
Honestly at this point though, I just enjoy the fighting and the story more so than focusing on all these explanations for the forms and whatnot
You cannot tell me Gohan Blanco avenging his dead family against the hands of El Hermano isn’t canon.
You play Xenoverse bro
@@sevenln3310 then it's canon
Did diavolo die
Oh wait
Your wish has been granted in Super Hero
@@RPGNoZero god i hope not, I really hope the leaks are fake because we don't need any more forms, shame that they only care about money, so they know a new form will mean more toys and cards for the games
How to die:
Play 'canon' drinking game.
Click play.
Can confirm, currently in purgatory.....
@Tuscan417 And it has surprisingly great food
everything u said is actually filler
@Papa Sheev That's how I got down here
Which basically results in what flavor u like dragon ball super in.
Bass BREAKER haha yes
Or what parts of what flavor. The Goku Black arc in the anime is butts but the Tournament of Power is amazing; and in the manga is the other way around.
Strawberry
@@DuskMindAbyss both arcs are bad, top only got good once goku and jiren finally fought
@JJC That was a good episode, sure. But most of it was ruined by Black's stupid nonsense personality and how dumb the time travel was.
"Vegeta, what's his view level?"
"It's under TWOOOOO"
I find it easier to just think of DBS as having two canons - the manga canon and the anime canon. I could imagine a game that retells the DBS story to favor the anime canon, since the anime is far more popular in the west.
I go by the Anime Canon
@@Ma1q444 It is canon...
@@Ma1q444 who says it's not canon? The community can't decide that
@@Ma1q444 The original author doesn't matter with canon. A LOT of stories being in new authors and creative talent, and their stories remain canon. Star Wars, for example.
@@Ma1q444 its canon get over with it
I swear I read that Toriyama put in his notes that Black had a regular super saiyan form but just diddnt draw it.
This is true. The notes for Goku Black in his design sheet literally states he has a Super Saiyan form and the Rose form
So yeah it's "canon" that Black has a Super Saiyan form
Toriyama doesn't draw the manga anymore.
Toyotaro does
Exequiel Breton can you read? They said notes.
From what I've read Toriyama didn't initally plan for Vegito to return. That may have been Toyotaro's influnce and the anime agreed with that notion.
@@STGAoe he doesn't have super sayian and rose. I thought rose was just his version of super sayian.
DbS: "Am I canon?"
Mark: "Yes well actually no"
Adrian Naranjo *”Well yes, but actually no”
Adrian Naranjo true, and super came first not the manga
@@dyllanboyd7314 It doesn't matter if it came first.
@@Reality-Distortion Actually it does
@@MystMelly_UwU No it doesn't. Anime isn't source material for the manga.
8:05
Ikr, at one point they are talking about dimensions and the next it's just speed, like I'm so lost.
"Bardock: The Father of Goku" is still the cannonest DB story in my book.
Then DBS Broly happened (awesome movie but no need to retcon Bardock)
SyNX Toxiic yeah like I didn’t hate dbs broly’s version of Bardock but the original was done good already they didn’t need to change shit.
And him getting into super saiyan
@@sergioambriz9338 I mean technically it didn't exactly retcon it, if you notice a few time skips occurred and chunks were missing.
at best its like what was changed was actually just goku's departure time and bardock being slightly softer and actually being somewhat a father with being concerned about his son.
but there was a time skip after goku got sent off and it showed bardock fighting frieza's forces in the stratos and getting nuked by the super nova attack.
basically, the bardock special probably could have played out almost exactly the same aside from a few minor changes.
History of Trunks too
Can we all just agree that dragon ball's "timeline" is japan's equivelant of a comic book multiverse
Inconsistent, and all over the place?
@@captaincap4931 yes
Howisstitchingblouse
@@captaincap4931 Precisely lol
This is the most sensible of how to describe it
Awesome
I’m fine with filler if it’s actually good 👀
Same that is why I dont like Super
Yeah, Dragonball isn't doing that hot right now, but I do still have some hope for it, I still prefer JoJo just a bit more.
@@sketchydude8431 If you don't like DB, then why are you here?
@@seekersandshadowsart to dislike.
@@sketchydude8431 Why do you keep spamming this shit? People like you are why people hate the JoJo fandom
Xenoverse is the only canon element of the franchise. Cmon Mark, you should know this.
Edit: Specifically the Super DLC (Including any movie character)
Ridlo wrong, Dragon Ball Fusions is canon
Aron108 Why an I forced to put a last name?
Fucking idiot, we all know the only canon is heroes and fighterz
Anime and Games Fan wait i was wrong. It’s Dragon Ball Sagas
I personally don't like dragonball like I used to, I prefer JoJo now.
Your reasons to hate the franchise are shit.
The manga and the anime are separate in my opinion
This right here.
How about we Pretend there were no filler so we won't get confused and everything in the Super Anime/manga is Cannon?
@@sbevexlr848 Because of contradictory events. Its not a matter of filler vs. non.
@@thacobell4700 yeah but Toriyama makes things confusing of what is Cannon and what isn't is
@@sbevexlr848 Ture, but it has no bearing on the "anime vs. Manga". Even if we got a 100% concrete answer on what is filleror not, there are still tons of contradictory ways that events played out (or didn't) that would make it impossible for both the manga and anime's versions of events to be true.
Wait, Manga has filler?!
*Insert Yakuza table slam meme here*
No, it doesn't
Their simply seperate continuities. Both are equally cannon
@@Marco-zf6eq yep I agree with you
Only thing purely cannon was the script. Toyotaro however changed few elements for the manga version (+fan service) and same goes for Toei in anime (+++ fan service)
@@Marco-zf6eq Except that the manga sometimes did the same stuff as the anime months later. How is the manga supposed to be the canon if its ideas originates from the anime? 😂
The real cannon of dragon ball super will apear when Tfs make dbs abriged
True
Tfs dbs episode 1 coming 2050
Unfortunately, they’re not doing Super
I hope they do dragonball gt abridged
Frisk Dreemurr isn’t that already an abridged version of dragon ball?
Ah I see, so it doesn't make sense. I now understand that I do not understand, thank you.
Moral of the story is... If The manga and anime have a moment or scene that's the same , it's canon.
I like to imagine that the anime and manga are their own separate timelines that are equally cannon. Makes it simpler for my simple mind.
That is the case.
That is in fact the way it is and always was even with the OG and Z series. This video is good at showing the differences between the two media, but he does not know what cannon and filler means. It's not beceause both of them tell something different that they are wrong or filler, they are just own iterpretations of the script they got and are both cannon in there own media form. its realy simple and the way you look at it, is basicly just how you should look at it.
The best filler in DB Super is the slice of life stuff. The baseball episode was fucking amazing. I'd legit enjoy a Dragonball-style baseball game after watching that.
Well, is not baseball, but Inazuma Eleven does that with Football. And Eyeshield 21 does it to American Football.
yeah, the humour in super was great
Lol good joke
Yeah
Vegetal being a father is awesome.
As long as the new Broly is canon that's all that matters.😊
You spelled Gogeta wrong, but, we all know you meant Gogeta. So, is ok.
That is a whole script written by toriyama. He wrote 3 hour script.
Movies have never been cannon. Like ever. Regardless of who wrote it. There are tons of "filler" scenes and some characters written and created by Toriyama that have always been non cannon. I have no idea what he's talking about.
it is canon.
I mean if broly can become canon then anything can
I feel like Dragon Ball Super is where the whole bit about stuff only coming directly from Toriyama being canon gets taken too seriously. The fact that he was willing to outline a general story without going into specifics seems to say that he was willing to let the gaps get filled in without canonicity really mattering, kind of like he was passing the torch while keeping an eye on things.
This, if you look at it, all the free to interpratation parts are not realy that important as wel. Its fun to see and read how two teams have different ideas about handeling it, and they ar just both canon in there own media.
The Super Anime and Manga are two seperate canons, kinda like seperate parallel universes based off some fundamental ideas from Toriyama. End of story
Someone finally said it
exactly. the anime is officially the sequel to the dragonball manga and the dbs manga is an alternate universe
That's honestly the easiest way to look at it
Exactly this is just a dumb video just watch the anime or read the manga
aidan mordy They are both canon to the DBZ manga. There’s no alternate universes.
"Filler" isn't relevant to either. The anime and manga do not have the same relationship they did for DB/DBZ where the manga was the original source, so that word has no real meaning to DBS. Because If both are based off the same notes but written differently, then they're both 2 different canon's with some similarities. Too bad the Broly movie kinda threw a wrench into all of that, but luckily it was vague enough to be passable for both without direct/glaring contradictions...
BUT just because the manga pulled ahead doesn't automatically mean it's the true canon. If Akira is the one who wrote the outlines to the Moro arc, then we know the anime will do it in some form as well. And maybe they will go back to that similar 'manga source' formula when the DBS anime returns, but I doubt it. I have a feeling Toei will go their own way with the story. Of course now that it manga IS ahead, people will always assume the anime got their ideas from it, or at least the ones that are similar. Unless we get to see Akira's notes, we'll never really know.
To be fair DBS: Broly was much closer to the manga's canon than the anime's so I understand why most people think the former is now the only canon (it's also been called that officially... kinda)
Well the Moro arc almost has nothing to do with akira toryiama from what I’ve read and I can definitely agree with it. He has lost a lot of interest in the series which is why their is such a massive difference between the 2 cannons. Personally I think the anime is just better overall and ssb kaioken is easily one of the best moments in dragon ever
DasMuse it took me to long to find someone in the comments who wasn’t just a dumb ass zombie who just ate up all his bullshit.
People get into such great debates about this. I think it's interesting, sure, especially if you want to get to the core of what you think the original author wanted, but even then, it's still very iffy in a lot of places. Let's say something isn't explained all that well in the notes, or barely explained at all - Toei or the manga may just omit it entirely if they feel it doesn't contribute to anything or if they don't like it. The opposite is also true. Like, you see what I mean? Something showing up in both may make it "canon" but just because it isn't in both doesn't make it "filler" either.
It's been a while since I've seen it, but in the anime, doesn't present!Bulma get the fuel that later gets used for the time-machine from the Copy-Vegeta arc? If so, that arc is pretty important to the overall story of that version, even if it wasn't mentioned in Toriyama's notes.
I'm rambling a bit and I'm tired, and I don't think it was Mark's intention to suggest so, certainly, because he's talked about both and likes pieces of both, but I think some people get too caught up with seeking out "pure Toriyama" in Super, either version. And that's a bit of a wasted effort.
@@jacobpicasso4016 I think you're massively confused as to how DBS works. The entire reason it happened at all was because Toriyama wanted to get back into it after the success of Battle of Gods and R-F, which he wrote.
He's "written" (In quotes because both anime and manga take creative liberties) everything for DBS so far. The varying canon between the two has nothing do with him being uninterested, its just the two sides making it their own because he only supplied them with an outline to let them fill in the blanks, which is why there is variance between the two... so I don't know what it was you read that made you think he has nothing to do with the moro arc, but I can assure you he's just as involved as he has been from the beginning of DBS. Check your sources first. All I had to do was google it and I instantly found what I was looking for.
*mark casually just killing a clone of himself at the beginning*
How is his channel still getting monetized after he shot himself on video?
What gun, what are you talking? He shoting himself isn't cannon
I'm so glad that you picked a remix of the Primal Dialga theme for the music in 14:07. I recognized it instantly, as I have many fond memories of playing Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time (and Sky, too). It's something small, but I do appreciate it! Also, if it was your editor that made this decision, then props to him for being awesome. XD.
Goku going SSBKK X10 for the first time is non canon.
Say sike right now.
It would've felt lot better if used against Fusion Zamasu since SSB wasn't supposed to become surpassed by Hit who should've just been getting by the match due to special techniques, not power.
Never liked ssjb kioken. Unpopular opinion I know
It's in the show... it's canon.
@@Tyrone-Ward but it's not in the manga so it's not Canon it could be either
Will be ssj blue full power?
Yo man, Toyotaro said that Vegetto wasn't part of the original outline by Toriyama, he said that he liked it from the anime so he decided to use it too. So this is an instance were it was present in both mediums but it wasn't canon by your standards.
you have a really good point!
but vegetto is canon in the original dragon ball manga written by Toriyama, so i see no issue of him being re-used in a new story plot. Its an old idea being reused. The introduction of vegetto is nothing as extravagant as super siayan blue evolution vegeta or perfected super saiyan blue form, which is entirely a add in creation.
Super saiyan blue kaioken is debatable as i beleive Goku uses it in the manga against jiren, as krillin mentions it.
@@xcmet yeah, I mean the appereance of Vegetto is not canon in neither the manga nor the anime because Toriyama didn't included him in the original outline, which is the requirement that TNM is using.
In both cases it was a weird choice since it made little sense for power scaling
exactly
Sooo even dragon ball isn’t impervious to “Araki forgot”.
This however is cannon
*AAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH*
Me :yeah that makes sense
Transforming in a nutshell
2:50
Fans: So is this non canon or is this canon?
Toriyama: yes ;)
i mean half of the fans have never seen the og series or gt so what do they know is canon?..they barley remember z...fuck them
@@razkable Some of them don't even know what dragon ball is.
@@razkable wha? I can remember alot about Z,Dragon ball,and even GT
You dont really forget if your a big fan
You must mean like the casual fans right?
I think you mean yes'nt
Fuck the people who haven't read og db and haven't watched db/z
I like this analysis but it disregards the idea that either toyotaro or Toei could’ve disregarded certain notes.
that means it isn't canon, which is the point of the analysis
@@vicl8257 so both are no canon? Both the manga and the anime are separate continuities.
@@Stupaipai certain parts of both are Canon, certain are not Canon. Did you watch the video?
@@vicl8257 I did watch the video. I'm simply disagreeing with it.
I'm saying that the Super anime and Super manga are separate continuties and that they are canon. Even the small fillers are canon.
You can't really talk about the anime being canon or noncanon to the manga when the anime came out first.
Also if we're going to talk about continuity based off of Toriyama's notes, I'm sure the added plot ideas are canon as Toriyama gave Toei and Dbs Toyotaro permission to add what they feel, thus separating the continuities.
Talking about the continuties and comparing them are redundant.
It sucks to not know precisely what Toriyma's notes were, it's all a guessing game.
Even in the DBS:Broly movie half of the og Toriyama script wasn't adapted, I can imagine that something similar may easily happen to the notes for the anime\manga.
I just kinda disagree with the criteria of "if it's the same, it's canon", because there are some things both Toei and Toyotaro decided to do that weren't in the script, like Ultra Instinct Omen and Vegito for example.
On the other hand, I still think the anime and the manga can complement each other in some areas. I think the manga made an effort to fill in some gaps in the anime's lore and went the extra mile to explain some things.
I'd love to pick and choose things from each to be the true canon, like SSB Kaioken, and the way Zamasu splits into millions of copies.
That reminds me, I think differences like those can be seen as Toei's and Toyotaro's interpretations of very vague script notes from the Tori-bot.
Goku uses Kaioken/SSG against Hit: *"Goku uses red transformation we thought we'd never see again"*
Zamasu fuses with the universe/creates a million copies of himself: *"Zamasu takes over the universe, he is everywhere"*
I like the way Zamasu splits up like that, it's another similarity he has to Cell where every cell on his body remembers how to recreate his ultimate form, only much quicker, and each piece cut off creates a whole new copy.
And the Kaioken? Too cool.
I agree i think he doesn't understand the word "canon" because like filler is still has recognition by the main creator and the main series so just cause the manga is different and told a different way doesn't mean some parts of the anime isn't canon
I'd say Super exists within its own canon to begin with. The DB manga ends with none of the Super concepts in mind because they never existed. This is either one massive retcon of the ending or it's non canon. I can't imagine it's just a very drawn out filler series.
The manga also skips a lot of stuff because people alreadly saw it on the anime so we really can't know for sure
I'd say the SSB Kaioken was in chapter 39.
Can you prove that Ultra Instinct Omen was not in the original manuscript? I've never once heard that claim. I know about Vegito; Zamasu originally equalled 2 SSBs.
I'd love to see someone take the good of the anime and the manga and make a really good dragon ball story seeing as both have their own highs and lows.
Amazing comment and a great idea
Because of Super's unorthodox creation, does the standard metric of cannon vs non-cannon really apply?
Like, word/action of mangaka = cannon works for basically everything but this. If we follow only what Toriyama did as true cannon, then only the barest of bones in both the anime & manga are truly cannon. Right?
After thinking about it, I don't really think it does. I highly doubt that Toei or Toyotaro would go against the notes that Toriyama have written down. And the idea of a "bare bones canon" is weird to me.
Tho i supposed you could view the bare bones canon as what Toriyama had intended for the series.
At this point i treat them as seperare separate continuities. Both are canon in their respective timelines. Its just up to the consumer on which one they prefer to follow
Separate*
@@mr.maximum5271 That's what I do as well. It just makes more sense that way.
Whats CANON is the eleminits they share.
@@weathermangohanssj4 But those elements are so few and nonspecific. And no one form, anime or manga, is entirely cannon of their own.
That's never been done before.
So this means that we can actually write another version of Super that has the same validity of the anime and manga versions... But this time is good.
Sounds like what happens in the marvel and DC verse already. So why not lol
@@exiledefconzero9729 I don't want Dragonball to go in that direction, but every great story will inevitably outlive it's creator and be inherited by others...
@@AndrewAce. Too late, Dragonball is all over the place right now. Majin buu fighting Moro, after Moro absorb both Goku and Vegeta along with his full power, after buu just woke up.
@@mrwilson5117 I've read little more than up until they arrive on Namek, I'm planning on picking it up again in a few weeks as one chapter a month or whatever They're doing right now is too slow for me...
Either way, it's inevitable as I said. Maybe in 50 years time, Dragonball will be some expanded universe with dozens of writers and artists like it's Marvel or DC...
I am sure you can just call it "Team Four Star"
Simple Answer
*Their both cannon, just alternate timelines*
To: connor otto
________________
There's no manga filler.
All story is direct from the arc, unlike DBS.
Welp. Nope sadly. Please dont live in a dream anymore. Heck how this headcanon alt timelines work since the ofc timelines didnt include your own headcanon timelines lol😂
*They're both canon, just alternate timelines.
But people refused to apply that to GT and use it as a scapegoat to catch shit. Mmkay
@@NeightrixPrime even if it is acknowledged wtf we meant to do about it?
This is even more relevant now that Daima's given it's own explanation for how exactly Kibitoshin defused, discarding BOTH the manga and anime's explanations for how and when it happened
Also the Potara time limit for mortals exists ALONGSIDE Boo's insides being able to nullify Potara fusions
Would love to see you "Rewrite" DBS like you did the buu saga only with one rule that the events are only canon, and you would chose which "filler" events make more sense, in the manga or the anime or a mix of both, when there is unclearness what actually happen. That's way we can say what is actually Canon and go on and analyse through that. I think the Broly movie is a key to figuring out what is canon.
9:40 "Zamasu turning into the sky"
No, no, no my friend... zamasu turned into ZA WURLDO!!!
ZA WARUDO*
When a JoJo reference is better than the entire zamasu arc.
@String Cheese I'm not, but ok.
@String Cheese I did, but it's just a friendly opinion that I prefer JoJo over dragonball.
@String Cheese Okay, no hard feelings, but I'm just gonna ignore you, ok?
maaaan it really seems like toriyama doesn't give a shit anymore and that one day he could wake up on a bad mood and scrap all DBS like GT if someone offers him enough money :/
Saysera yo that ain't even funny bro..... he might, that's a scarry realisation bruh... yeeting a whole series rip
@@herrscherofisaf5592 monkaS i hope he doesn't see my comment and get ideas from it
but yeah it would really feel shitty if we get invested in DBS just for it to be thrown in the trash in a few years :/
He said himself, and I quote; "Dragonball is all about fighting, nothing more. It is for children." While that isn't entirely the quote itself, it is something he pretty much said in an interview, if you search some of the keywords there. Also kinda fits in line with him being forgetful as hell, but anyways, Toriyama hasn't really cared about Dragonball for a long time. All it takes is reading the Manga of the Buu Arc and seeing some of the initial designs he sent over to Toei for GT to see that. Battle Of Gods was a one time thing, much like Super: Broly. I mean, for gods sake, the Universe Survival arc gets two shots in that movie. He doesn't care about these long form shows; it's clear he only cares for even trying with the movies.
@@nerkskerk8774 yeah :/ the fact that he tried to end it after the namec arc and was incited to continue Z 2 times (and the end of the android saga too was meant to be a possible end) it shows he was already done with it .
but ngl i'm triggered by the fact that he give them the approval to do such things , like i'm fine with them doing gt/super or whatever , but everytime saying "toriyama took part in the story writting" when he spent like 5 min on it ... i'd rather he'd do something like marvel and dc do with comics where new people can come in and tell their own story and add to the canon , toyotaro might be able to give us good stories if he had no contrains
DBS is so bad I hope this happens. I refuse to accept this hot pile of shit as canon.
5:20 "incredibly high-quality image"
WHAT KAIOKEN BLUE ISN’T CANON??!!!!! (Haven’t watched the whole video)
@killermeh meh but bruh... It isnt Canon. Super saiyan kaioken wasnt Canon also
Mmmm doesn't every youtuber needs views?
@killermeh meh But it really isn't canon...
Though I do like dragonball a bit, I do still prefer JoJo just a bit more.
killermeh meh isn’t canon there wasnt in the movie that toriyama wrote
Honestly, I consider the manga AND the anime Canon, to their perspective timelines; dragon ball as we know isn't afraid to dip their feet in multiverse theory, both versions filler or not are Canon
That was before when the anime was on air when the manga was a promotional manga for the anime, but after the anime ended the manga is considered the official canon.
@@aimacmaster6197 Sorry, the manga has never been a promotional material for the anime, that has been one terrible misconception, and yet, people keep claiming that, even when there is no source out there. In fact, the first chapter of the manga came out 2 weeks before the first episode of DBS anime
@@wolfzeru5745 i think its more of also because the manga is still going to this day with the moro arc and the granolah arc. though this also makes the question of are they canon or is the dragon ball super. super heroes movie canon since thats an anime movie of the series that continues the story
Nope Manga isn't canon. It was confirmed after DBS Super Hero th-cam.com/video/EKKO4zKFfJU/w-d-xo.html
Even Kaiyoken and SS Blue Evolution *might* not be canon as they were not created by Toriyama and did not show up in Broly movie.
@@gravityfallscanada how the manga Isn't Canon dumbass?
Dragon Ball... *Exists*
Totally Not Mark: "Is this canon?"
It doesnt seem reasonable to assume the manga has more weight in canon than the anime anymore. They're just two different canons, otherwise you get most the show being filler but that's absurd. Filler can be removed and things still make sense but the filler in the anime now is consequential and can change the story.
Besides sometimes the manga follows the lead of the anime when it falls behind
I thought super saiyan blue in the broly movie was great
Same
They did its transformation wonders I think
Andre Gavrin I think he meant how people wanted to see ssbkk in the movie (as i did) but were confused when he didn’t even mention it
@@sauce1820 the kaioken is getting a bit overused in my opinion so a break was welcome
Andre Gavrin that’s true but I still think it’s a cool concept, as long as the don’t overuse it more I’ll still like it
I'll decide what I count as canon
@killermeh meh oh a good sin of pride reference i hope
It doesn't matter what you decide.
Vidar Gartz this whole video IS headcannon itself as he truly thinks this is what toriyama intended.
2:49 I SWEAR TO GOD IF THATS NOT TFS VEGETA'S SCREAM IN THE NAMEK SAGA AFTER GOHAN STOLE HIS DRAGON BALL
Anyone else hearing, “Thanos” not “Vados”?
No
Yes
Yes
I can't help but feel like a lot of people misuse the term "canon" and put WAY to much stock into the term.
Yo Lord Beerus I saw Goku in the comment section
well what the creator writes should be held above all and the studio created material usually isn't good. not saying that applies here but usually, it applies to other series
@@sirmel11 I honestly am beginning to think Toriyama should be replaced unless he gets his act together. The Broly movie is a good start as it's been a long time since I've actually seen really good writing in dragon ball
It's important to have clear canon but when a writer leaves you with just vague outlines on a story you shouldnt place that much trust in it.
We should be happy that others picked up his slack else the series would have literally be a husk
I thought Dragon Ball had bad writing around the Buu arc. That's when it started to drop. Toriyama then went on to just make 1 villain for each arc almost as if he was writing a movie.
They need henchmen that are powerful and maybe a few with their own goals. That's what made the Frieza saga so good. I know the Android/Cell stuff was changed a lot but it should have been. Having two enemies for the whole arc is stupid.
Buu, Beerus, Frieza, Zamasu, and Jiren. There's some henchmen in the Buu arc but they don't matter and eventually the arc is just Buu. Beerus is alright for a movie. Frieza's soldiers couldn't do much and one randomly killed Piccolo. Ginyu came back too which was stupid. The Goku Black arc was bad. It was just a back and forth fighting arc. Nothing of substance happened. We knew Jiren was the strongest before the tournament and there was no one there that could challenge him or be a surprise.
A proper recap of the things that are the same and canon
Great job! Blue Kaioken is cool but I prefer the new power Vegeta got
None of this really matters. The manga and the anime are acknowledged as two separate canons* and the movies are mostly their own thing, adapted to each to make them fit into their respective stories.
As for what actually occurs in both mediums, as long as Toriyama contributes to and green-lights the main points at least it's canon* enough for me.
But at some point the line blurs between what truly is and isn't canon*, especially as the original author/mangaka begins to move on. The only thing fans and producers alike can do is try to respect the spirit of the original work and try to go by that standard.
At some point fussing over canon* becomes pointless...
Yeah, you got this right. It's two different cannons. People can't get over this so they say things like different timelines or go through some mental gymnastics to create what they consider canon, but it's just the way they are handling the property in the two mediums.
@@LuckyAzazel Agreed. This foolishness needs to stop...
Agree
@Camel King Clarith as a law student, I feel you on this difference lol.
Neat
When I read the Universe survival saga after years of when I watched the anime I was heavily confused. So many differences immediately that made me question what even happened to the anime, like how kale had super speed in base, or how caulifa swiped the potara instead of them giving it to them to cheat. Also the fact that roshi helped Goku get ui, and gohan beating kefla into a draw. Very different and very weird
Not weird.
This was really cool but honestly I'll just go by 2 separate cannons so basically there's the anime canon by Toriyama + Toei and the manga canon by Toriyama + Toyotaro bcuz it makes life easier LoL but im gonna share this bcuz it's cool af
I guess you can say the anime did better than the manga for the most part
Edit: Until the Moro arc at least
Yup
Hhhhhhhhh no
Actually yes, When you ask most people what was their favourite part of Db Super, most people referred to an anime moment
i personally disagree. i much prefer the manga
Maxumoto that’s because most people watch the anime. But the majority of the future trunks and universe 6 bits are better in the manga.
Yo Mark! A bit of criticism for ya.
You should start putting the music you use in the video in the description. If you don't know and it's the editor putting them in, then ask them to give you the sources.
For Example: I heard a Magus Battle remix in the Piccolo episode and couldn't find it in the description, and I heard a Dialga's Fight to the Finish remix in this video and it also wasn't in the description.
I think it might help some people find some new tastes and music and also just referencing whatever sources you use never hurts, not in this case anyway.
Same, theres a MM7 remix around 2:40 in this video and I cant find it
Roshi should’ve lasted longer in the anime to show that roshi and the others are a useful and not randomly selected just to be in a cast, roshi has trained his whole life to martial arts, so showing that the tournament of power not only shows the strength but also the capabilities of its mortals, but that’s my opinion
I thought Roshi lasted as long as he should've. He's well below everyone else, and to be honest, Goten and Trunks would've made more sense filling his spot.
The term “canon” means nothing on its own, especially when it comes to Dragon Ball. I get that you defined it as the stuff Toriyama wrote, but like, you can’t write off stuff like the Jelly Vegeta Arc as “FILLER” when the Goku Black Arc directly references it, for instance. It happened, it’s part of the Super anime canon.
“Canon to the manga”, “canon to the anime”, “canon to Kai”, this is how you use the term. Super isn’t canon to any of those things bc it has contradicted their continuities multiple times. It can only be seen as its own new canon
EDIT: to further clarify, “canon” isn’t some adjective that can be used to describe something’s validity.
“(not) canon to” = “(not) in continuity with”
“canon” (noun) = “continuity”
See, so saying “this thing is canon” or “this part is non-canon” has no meaning. It’s an incomplete statement, essentially. For instance-bear with me-many ppl will say “GT isn’t canon.” What they should say is “GT isn’t canon to the manga.”
Other lil examples:
-SSJ4 is canon to GT, but not canon to Super
-Garlic Jr. is canon to the Z anime, but not canon to Kai (or the DB manga)
-SSB Kaio-Ken is canon to the Super anime, but not canon to the Super manga
Also since the Super anime isn’t directly adapting its manga like the first 2 DB series, terms like “filler” technically don’t apply to it. (although I get that when ppl use it, they basically mean standalone, slice of life, etc.)
Just go with the Xenoverse canon
Tia Blue
Well there’s a part of the Goku Black Arc that was *filler* that referenced the Jelly Vegeta Arc, then
exactly wish more people understood this
I guess, but I'd still say any significant changes to toriyamas original story are not canon.
Dragonball is trash, JoJo is way better.
TL;DR: your method is good for finding out the possible or even "probable canon", but it cannot be deemed 100% accurate.
I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but do be careful about putting information out there without making it clear that it is YOUR interpretation... I know - we all know - that you're passionate about DB, but there are still things that would require some sort of "privileged Intel" if we were to have definitive answers.
As much as I like your method for uncovering what is or isn't canon in DBS, there are still some presuppositions that aren't entirely reliable. For example, you assume that what is canon is what was written directly by Toriyama. Then you assume that whatever happens in both the DBS manga and anime was written by Toriyama. But it's impossible to prove that this happened at all times (it didn't).
Toyotaro also gets in touch with Toei and for a long while the manga and anime weren't covering the same bits of story at the same time.
What makes you think that NONE of the events portrayed in both forms of media weren't agreed upon by people other than Toriyama himself and he just gave it the "final blessing" if even that? Or that the first medium to present said events wasn't used as a baseline despite of Toriyama's drafts? Basically there's no way to tell EXATCLY what was written by whom.
Another thing: just because some basic concepts from Battle of Gods didn't come from Toriyama, you preferred to almost disregard the movie? Even though Toriyama's involvement was much bigger during its production when compared to the DBS anime and manga?
Oh, and there's also the paradox of the canonicity without a chain of events. I mean, sometimes the supposed (and incomplete) canon will take such huge leaps that it ends up contradicting itself if all possible interpretations are deemed filler. And what about when canon incorporates something later that was initially considered filler because it didn't happen in both the manga and the anime?
There are some other stuff like varying levels of author involvement, retcons and info being confirmed/revealed outside of the main material like in interviews, but I think you get the point. I'm not saying that your criteria for canonicity is plain wrong, what I'm saying is that it's definitely not perfect, so you're bound to make at least some mistakes.
Anyway, what I'm actually worried about is that you didn't even make a disclaimer and just seemed to assume this is 100% correct when there's absolutely no way to guarantee that. So much so that there's objective proof it doesn't always work.For example: we know for a fact that Vegetto's appearance in DBS wasn't in the original outlines from Toriyama, but he shows up in both the anime and the manga. It was "sanctioned" by Toriyama, sure, but so were many things considered to be filler. See the problem?
Regardless of all that, thanks for your efforts! It does help a lot when it comes to the "probable canon", just be sure to make it clear what it isn't a perfect way to tell canon from filler.
P.S.: 04:03 - was that a joke? 'Cause Toyotaro basically said that in an interview, didn't he?
10:07
*can I get a full version of that tho*
Just look up ultimate battle kazoo version
Yeees
My guy did all this just for everyone to say just accept it as two different canons lol
Think that was the point
3 canons because the DBZ anime leads to gt. Kai leads to super and manga leads to supers manga. Supers anime only uses kais accepted filler…and music and footage and voices ect
@@fridaynightnicktoons6885 to each their own.
I believe that having a different anime and Manga Canon is a good thing. I generally like it when the anime is different from the Manga or when a movie is different from the book etc, as I see a different interpretation of the events that transpire(as long as it's executed well)
Gt is canon to DBZ anime. Supers canons are for Kai and the toriyama manga :) it’s all canons. Everyone got shit to enjoy
@@fridaynightnicktoons6885 not really
@@fridaynightnicktoons6885 works for me
@@fridaynightnicktoons6885 if that’s how you see it sure. But in reality gt isn’t canon lol
Toriyama gave beginning to ending outlines for the anime and manga. So both are their own separate canons
Which dragon ball super does not do
8:08
It just works
- Akira Toriyama
KillerBlue Jay *king crimson intensifies*
I had a thought for Broly that I think could have made him, or could just generally make for an interesting character. Think of him as essentially a power balloon. He's filled to burst with overwhelming power, so much so that it's nearly impossible for anyone to so much as scratch him or leave a mark, both due to him likely taking you out before you have the chance to and it just being very difficult to hurt him, but if you do he'll basically pop. I suppose you could also see this as a "glass canon" but the main idea is that all their power must be contained cause if there's an unintended way for it to escape, it's just going to come flooding out.
Thicc black goku isn’t real. He wont hurt you.
Thicc black goku: 8:28
Clearly there are two different interpretations and it really isn’t worthy going mad over. I prefer the anime but the manga is still great.
So we get to choose between the anime and manga on the events we like and don’t like to create and live in our own head canon.
Fun video, but your logic/reasoning on what is or isnt canon seems really flimsy/ flawed.
True
It's not flimsy at all. Anything that comes from Toriyama is canon. The parts of the DBS anime and manga that converge are a result of the story path that Toriyama laid out and are canon. Where they diverge means a third part injected their own idea of how the story should progress from point A to point B, ie filler. This video attempts to find a true, undeniable canon. What makes the manga more canon than the anime? What makes the anime more canon than the manga? There's no choice but to look for similarities and deem that the true canon.
Ok...you have a better way of determining what is or isn't cannon?
@@StallionFernando The Anime and Manga are two separate identities, they don't come together, it just happens that the Broly Movie has the same exact events happen, they're literally just two different timelines/universes where things happen differently, Kaioken SSB is canon to the Anime not the manga, and Mastered SSB is a manga exclusive
@@StallionFernando Manga isn't canon because it doesn't involve Toriyama. Simple as that.
You forgot to mention the fact that Goku doesn't know what a kiss is. That's also canon.
Dragon Ball Super the anime and the manga are both canon. They simply follow two different continuities. What happens in the manga is as much an interpretation of Toriyama's script as what happens in the anime.
But if things are left up to interpretation then it all just becomes a jumbled mess of:
Goku can stack Kaioken onto Blue.
Goku can also go Mastered Blue.
Goku can use Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan to fight Krillin, 17, Frieza, Toppo, and Jiren.
Goku also knows Hakai.
Vegeta knows Gamma Burst Flash.
Vegeta can go Super Saiyan Blue Shinka.
A Super Saiyan 2 Kefla can fight Ultra Instinct Omen Goku.
Master Roshi can dodge Jiren.
Etc.
We want a simple timeline of events, not two stories under the same title that have some similarities.
Nah
@@REDACTED887 yes
Man is right
@@plantgang8738 *mAn iS rIgHT*
8:27 you fucking killed me dude xD
It's just not Super, but Kai as well.
Kai kept some of the filler material of the original anime for some reason. Not everything directly leads into Super.
During the Resurrection F arc, Frieza is unaware of Goku fighting Buu when that was shown in Kai, which was filler.
However, Ginyu taking over Bulma's body was kept in tact despite that being also filler.
the filler material kept in kai was there because it *couldn't* be cut for some reason or another- mostly because the animation wouldnt make sense if removed. for the buu saga, they kept some filler material for the dubs to placate funimation who wanted more episodes
@@caelinnis what even type of answer is that?
Not mad at you or anything, but that answer from whatever you got it from isn't good and sounds more like a copout.
Zero_OR 5 freeza seeing goku fight buu was never in kai it was in the funi version
@@FirstNameLastName-mn9sz Hmmm looking up the information, shows the international version has more episodes.
@@mandalorianhunter1 Well the most clear example of filler material being impossible to cut is Gregory. He doesn't exist in the manga and therefore is an anime-only creation, but since it wasn't possible to cut him from every single frame where he shows up or is referenced, they kept him in Kai.
Then that means the Star Wars sequel trilogy is filler, we’re just waiting for George Lucas to make a canon story for Star Wars
I aseriously hope that Disney one day will officially make them non-canon and put the movies in some alternative universe.
I feel like this video is more a criticism of people being too picky over Dragon Ball cannon than an actual serious analysis of the cannon of Super.
It's really him though, he doesn't have the balls to come out and say super sucks(obviously) his opinion.
@@uncouthLIyouth
Or it doesn't suck and the haters are (obviously) just blinded by nostalgic bias.
And I say that as someone who grew up with the original Dragon Ball in the 80's, yes the OG DB.
Sucks that Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken isn't canon. It was a nice subtle comeback for a long forgotten form.
it is canon btoh anime nad man are canon just tow difnt uvnruse this guy need get over it
@@ssjgotenks2009 r/ihadastroke
Nope it's canon this guy is just talking out of his ass. Mastered Super Saiyan blue and goku knowing the hakai is not canon going by his logic since not once are either mentioned in the anime.
The character designs in the manga look so cool, I wish the anime design for characters looked that badass.
Feel free to correct me if my reasoning doesn't sound logical but why would we assume that there is filler in the manga ? Because it isn't on Toryama's notes? Isn't the manga supposed to be the main source of any shonen series? Excuse my rudeness but hipotethicaly speaking when toryama passes away and Toyotaro inherits Dragon ball are parts of his future projects also gonna be filler because they weren't in Toryama's notes? As stated the notes are key points and imo the manga should remain mostly cannon (even though there are some things I don't agree with and the anime in contrast delivering some awesome fan service)...
The manga and anime of Super were made roughly around the same time. The anime isn't an adaptation of the manga, and in fact, the anime at some point got AHEAD of the manga, finishing the ToP by the time the manga was still on the Black Goku arc. Not to mention that other DB media uses Anime content rather than the manga.
I'm not first
I'm not last
But when Mark upload
I click fast
I disagree with this video. I think there should a manga canon, and an anime canon. I consider everything episode of the anime canon in my own perspective of the Dragon Ball universe.
Agreed
There is manga and anime canon, the way this guy is describing canon is wrong. Hes describing it as "Original author content is the only canon stuff." When in fact they are separate continuities that tell their own story, they are also legally licensed as dragon ball so they are canon.
To: Leap
_________
"Licensed" is irrelevant in the canon discussion, DBZ movies are official product, that doesn't make them canon.
The manga version is the closest to Akira's story, thus between anime and manga, clearly the manga is canon.
To: Neightrix Prime
___________________
The only dumb way of thinking here is clearly yours.
#1) License means nothing in the canon matter, DBZ movies, DBGT, and even video games have it, doesn't mean the story there is canon.
#2) There's clearly filler, you're blind if you can't see it, not only in DBS, but almost all anime, and no, in no way it defeats the purpose of entertainment media.
#3) If Akira dies, the following canon has nothing to do with him anymore, he already named a successor, Toyotaro, the one filling the blanks in the manga.
@@michaelford8017 Sure there is officially licensed dragon ball content that isn't canon. Except Dragon Ball Super was made to be canon.
Mark, I think it is best if you made this video together with Geekdom. Trust me, he loves the subject of what is actually canon in Dragon Ball and what isn't
idk about that. he says stuff like "there's no true canon"
@@sirmel11 It was meant as a joke because I know he does not like talking about what is canon
@@Matt_Underwood You just said he loves talking about what is canon and what isn't and now you're saying he doesn't like talking about what is canon. Good one.
I'm down for a video collab between the two.
@@MagneticMaybe I was being sarcastic
Imma be honest hearing shauns voice break as he’s screaming “KAIO-KEN X10” is amazing
I would have loved to see how they would have animated the Roshi vs Jiren part.
Toriyama is an old man, understand that, there are things he doesn't even remember, don't expect perfect continuity, just enjoy dragon ball. It doesn't matter if something is canon or not, it only matters if it's official.
This isn't about Toriyama remembering stuff though.
No no no no no no no. NO.
I will not accept that.
You're saying that everything that happened both in anime AND manga is canon, but I will totally not accept half of series just.. not existing, because both sources are totally different.
he's not saying that?
he basically is
@@sirmel11 thats exactly what he means tho........
@@DamianQualshy I agree with you completely.
Like how mastered ssjb isn't a thing in the anime.
If anyone wants to know what the song is that plays at 14:06. It’s from Gametal, a cover of “Dialga’s race to the finish”
I like to see the Canon in 2 parts: Anime Canon and Manga Canon. That's way easier
DBZ: Filler < Cannon
DBS: Filler > Cannon
nothing can be better than a cannon.
but it can be better than canon
@@EdibleBacon lol
Don't listen to anything this video says it's misinformation SSJB Kaioken is canon for the Anime, and SSJB is Canon for the manga they are literally two different timelines/universes
@@Alex-ft8bs Agreed. I'm not impressed with NotMark trying to decide what's cannon and noncannon when there isn't even any source material or a complete set of notes from Toriyama to go off of. This video is essentially pointless...
So instead of there being two separate “Cannon’s” there is one extremely vague one
No this guy is just very wrong because the manga was wrote after the anime so it doesn't follow normal anime rules
1:09 I respect that, remember episode 13 or 14 of SDBH, the one where Naotoshi Shida came back? When he went from ssj to ssjb, I thought he was going ssj3 from the prolonged yelling and the pose his body went in where he bends forward. I was disappointed, especially considering the brands respect of the form
So Merged Zamasu‘s half part (Black) dying is noncanon?
the way they die is non-canon
8:33 has me dying
This is honestly the funniest video I've seen so far
This is easily my favorite video you've posted
Your understanding what "canon" means is kinda off tbh.
The concept of canon usually devolves simply into what is depicted from the manga and what fits between, that was simply left off-screen in the original media... then there can be some minor differences, wich simply are version A, and B...
the filler arcs, are a bit different, if they can fit the manga canon, I don't see any issue considering them such for the time being
And then the Super fucks this up, by providing 2 storylines with their highs and lows, that are supposed both to be the main one...
Because they are each their own canons. Toriyama and all involved have essentially spat on the whole what is canon debate. Its all.just dollar signs to them, so just believe whichever you want to believe.
@@PathBeyondTheDark
I want to believe that if the franchise shall be milked even after Toriyama's death, they'll retcon the super out of the storyline, or reboot it altogether... since they have wrote themselves in a corner with the powerscaling, and the super is barely a story to begin with.
Or Dragon Ball could go full One Piece and make a water 7 arc
I only saw dragonball what dat?
I see you are here Mr. Y
Justin Y. A what
Oh wow 1 year ago but 15 likes tf
I just want to say that the thumbmail drawing is BEAUTIFUL