Forgive the oversight! I completely forgot to mention the wonderful Mix who did the incredible compositing for these drawings, bringing them as close as possible to the real deal. Check him out! twitter.com/MixtheSkele
The entirety of this video's discussion hinges upon the notion that the original "Dragon Ball" is unanimously enjoyed. The justification that Daima should be allowed to exist is because original Dragon Ball exists falls flat for most of the fandom as it's simply not beloved. There's a reason why Kai was titled Dragon Ball Z Kai in the West to ensure there was no mistake that it was Z being given the animation clean-up and filler trimming. The undisputed truth is that majority of Dragon Ball fans do not enjoy pre-Z. Classic Dragon Ball is not as a product to the fans at large is considered not required watching. It was essentially skipped over for the Kararot (only adding the last Tournament arc as DLC.) There's no Team Four Star "Classic Abridged". The reason for so much disdain towards Daima is because fans as a whole do KNOW they want the story from the magna to continue. The masses want the conclusion of Super to finally bridge the time skip at the end of Z... and they know they want it before a rather old series creator potential could end up in Other World. The time for playing with something new and fresh is something for after Z/Super's story is complete. Not something that could potentially result in that being delayed... or potentially being incomplete.
OH MY GOD MY TIKTOK WAS USED IN THIS VIDEO!! I’ve never been so honored before in my life!! Even though he totally disagreed with my take, I’m still honored 😅 I LOVE your content Mark! I’d love to discuss my take more sometime
You cannot shot down the idea that Daima is GT ver.2. I'm a fan of GT even with it's flaws because I grew-up with kid Goku with the translations we got are not filtered like those that usually happens to animes being imported to the west. Add to that since I'm asian actually living in asia, the culture is not much difference so we can actually understand the general idea of what is going on. Hence, the ideas, jokes and other stuff we easily get, more so than my cousin and friends living in the US when we usually have talks and compare translations on the plots and words used in DB, DBZ and movies. But, Daima is too similar in the general plot and aesthetic to GT. Sure, Goku is not the only one that got turned to a kid, but if we think about it, the main concept of Goku becoming a kid, goes in an adventure in space - is still GT in the heart of it. So no matter how much one argues, Daima is a version of GT, but in Akira Toriyama's concept, much like how he made Broly canon. Daima is, no matter what argument one might say is a LOVE LETTER to GT, his original DB and probably to his peers (Previous Editors, collaborators etch.) by Toriyama in my personal opinion. It's easy to forget that although Toriyama produced good stories and characters, some of his greatest achievements is because of the help and at times, push of his peers. A good example of this is how Cell played out. If his editor didn't stand on his ground and made Toriyama upgrade Cell or just went to Tpriyama's idea of android 17 and 18 as the main antagonist of the Android Saga, then we might not have the things we loved like Gohan being SSJ2 or Perfect Cell or Mr. Satan just to name a few. Sure all of these are debatable, but, if you look at it, everything was a chain reaction, not solely because of Akira Toriyama's decision, but the push of other people. Heck, if Toei didn't make a push for GT or DBS, I think we wouldn't even have another resurgence of Dragon Ball. To be honest, I really don't mind Daima being called as GT Ver.2. If the original GT was fully handled by Toriyama, and we all know that in the end of the day, GT was still being approved by Toriyama, since the GT team still needs to consult him, the backlash on GT will not be that great. But, the main reason people keep on lacking GT was because GT isn't canon. Now, here we have a kid version of Goku. Created by Toriyama. With a general plot too similar to GT. Yet, in the end people still doesn't like it. Just goes to show that people, most specially those who turned to adults, that they just wanted to hate GT. And it's reflecting anything related or somewhat similar to GT - even if Toriyama himself said he liked GT. Yes, GT wasn't perfect, but it did gave us a lot as well. I'll not go into the rabbit hole in explaining things since I'm already writing a wall of text here, in which I don't know if this is even gonna be read. But, in general, Daima, being branded as GT ver.2 isn't bad. As I mentioned, Broly was finally canonized by Toriyama, so why not try to simply canonized some of the things leading to GT. I can see that the possibility of Uub and some sort of SSJ4 be in the horizon. Who knows. Maybe Daima being what it is, might lead to the reason why at the end of Z, God powers or Ki is somewhat gone and the road to be open-up for a possible reboot of GT. I can imagine for example, that the crisis behind this might be because of how Saiyans in general are able to reach Godhood - which can lead to the unbalance of the universe. Just imagine how many Saiyans there is on earth right now. Goku and Vegeta are pure Saiyans, Gohan, Goten, Trunks and Bulla are all half saiayans, and is considered that Half-Humans and Half-Saiyans are more powerful than full blood saiyans, then Pan a 1/4th saiyan, I believe. All of them has the possibility to enter the realm of Godhood. That is if we only talking about the Saiyans on Earth. By now we can deduced that there might be other living saiyans in universe 7 as we have Broly now and Tarble (I think the argument of him being canon or not is another thing, but just putting it here though). This is just my speculation, and it can be totally wrong but the way Saiayans and breeding with Humans are going, It might lead to a powerful race of people that can have the balance of universe 7 that might also result flowing through other universes as well. Heck, this might also have happened in the other 2 universes that was erased by Zeno before. Anyway, sorry for the long rant and by no means I'm not saying anything disrespectful to you since I do think you do provide another insight in regards to Daima. If, for some reason I do sound condescending or anything, my sincere apologies, but I assure you I'm not doing so. Peace and nice content.
My only real criticism for Daima at this point is that it missed a great opportunity to put the new generation to the forefront of the story. It would have been great if everyone got aged down while Goten, Trunks, Marin, Bulla(?) and Pan all retained their original ages, giving them (or at least Goten and Trunks) a chance to mature a bit or just simply take charge with the support of the now younger adult cast. Goten and Trunks are severely lacking in any sort of prominent spotlight and Daima could have been a chance to rectify that.
Yeah, I pretty much have no issue with Daimua but this? This right here is my primary criticism and main desire. I have been invested in focusing on the future ever since I learned that Toriyama felt as though he had to bring back Goku for the Buu Saga. I’ve been wanting to see Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Pan actually get to be the protagonists in their own right without so much of that Goku baggage getting in the way. There’s so much potential for an interesting dynamic there and we’ve frankly spent far too much time on Goku and Vegeta. It’s why I haven’t even bothered to watch Super, I just feel like we’ve been wheel spinning with the same guys over and over.
Personally, I think Daima is implied to happen before super but after the buu saga. Possible Gohan and Videl’s wedding due to them not being shown in the trailer + no pan or bulla which if it happened after super would be pretty dark
This is the main reason my brain is equating it to "GT 2" and part of why it just doesn't care to give this a shot. What fans have been clamoring for, for literally decades, is for the series to MOVE FORWARD and allow the cast to continue to age and change out. Gohan becoming the main character was what most fans wanted, even if Toriyama didn't think the traditional formula for a DB arc couldn't work with Gohan (which is true, but should have been the clue to the idea that the formula had gotten stale & needs to change). Super Hero gave us hope that the series could finally move on from Goku & Vegeta to the next generation, but now we're getting the old cast returning as kids? This is *NOT* what anyone was asking for when we demanded the return of DBS... The other part of the reason I don't care to give Daima a shot is because ... Well where the fuck are Moro & Granolah's anime arcs? Are they not getting one despite being some of the best DB content since Cell was defeated? I already had concerns when it was announced that Super Hero would be the manga arc following Granolah, but if it's never getting animated, then the anime is dead to me no matter what else they do.
"Are we really going to sit here and act like classic dragon ball doesnt exist?" Yes mark. Most of the fandom does. Some of them dont even need to pretend!
I will say this, I kinda wish we got more diverse ages for the main cast. Goku, Krillin, Chichi and 18 being roughly the same apparent age is fine but I wished Bulma, Yamcha, and some of the others were a bit closer to their original ages in Dragonball, at least from a design standpoint. Plus I really wish Roshi was an adult man cause it makes me think of that one episode of Futurama with the Fountain of Youth. "With my last breath, I curse YAMCHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"
Honestly, it'd be interesting to see Rhoshi as a non-elderly man; would be funny if he turned out to be a total stud in his youth. But, I've seen people say it's not trying to portray how they really looked as kids; not sure if that's true, but most of them do just look like mini versions of their current designs (as opposed to how, say, Goku or Krillen actually looked as kids).
Actually I don’t care about that ages so much as the desgins everyone basically just looks like mini versions of themselves instead of looking like kids at least to me. I mean 18 literally looks like she shrunk . Piccolo looks nothing like how he did as a kid , same with krillin I’m not saying they couldn’t use the current modern art style but they should’ve did so with the old desgins of these character when they were younger or at least tweaked it more . They literally just look like they all shrunk .
You can say that Daimai isn't GT 2.0, but it has the same fundamental flaw that GT had; it's trying to recapture the spirit of OG Dragon Ball by transforming Goku (and friends) into children. But here's the problem with that - Goku is not a child anymore, he's a 50-something y/o man. He married his sweet heart, raised a family, been all over the Earth, been to space, been to the after life, been to the realm of the Gods. You can't recapture the spirit of a bright-eyed boy adventuring through the world and marveling at how large and wondrous it is anymore, because Goku has literally done it all.
What are you talking about? The fundamental flaw of GT was the shitty writing. You can make any premise interesting. “The Shining” is set almost exclusively in a single hotel, but Kubrick made it interesting to see the main character go insane. You know almost nothing about this show (and neither do I). Also Toriyama didn’t head the story beats in GT, while he will be heavily involved in this. You haters should stop talking out your ass as if you even have the ability to critique story structure, and wait for it to come out before you pretend to hate it.
Toyria doesnt understand fans want fights and shit -sees dragon ball heros being so much fights but 75% of the fans ignore it exist as it been running for years at this point-
Me personally I preferred battle of Gods, it showed that Goku could lose. The Moro arc was better than Battle of Gods all the way up until the ending, where they butchered the resolution with Goku simply being given the answers by Whis - which weren’t even that profound and almost a rehash of what was said in Resurrection F (worst arc in the history of the dragon ball franchise in my opinion, and it’s undebatable for me) and he suddenly found the means necessary to defeat Moro. Felt a bit like the plot kicked in. Moro arc is my second favourite arc of Super though.
Saddly they wont stop printing dragon ball money. Even after the whole staff is dead they will run this franchise to shtt quality death as long as there will be retrds with no standards eating anything "dragon ball" thats being put out
@@dannysummers4591 At least Granolah arc had some logical consistency aside from a couple retcons. Roshi being as powerful he was, made no sense. Gohan being as weak as he was, made no sense. SSJB existing so early and shafting SSJG by appearing in the subsequent arc to it is ridiculous and devalues both forms, and the form is a lazy recolour. And Goku just making mistakes in RoF that he simply would not make in Z. Also the ending… Whis just time travelling back, almost as bad as Goku black arc ending.
My personal issues for this upcoming series stems from my own indifference of the "aging down" while maintaining the adult's memories trope in both Western and Eastern media and by extension, isekais tend to dive into this quite a bit. While this does seem like it'll go beyond the scope of constant gags about it, the concept was something I seldomly enjoyed. That being said, I'm still open to watching the series as it's Dragon Ball to give it a fair chance on whether I'd like it or not.
Agreed through and through. The animation is really really good in the Goku vs Vegeta fight in the Daima clip, but I’m just not excited for the kid thing. Is this aimed at kids? Yeah I imagine so…But I was like, 6 watching Z, and I knew lots of other kids watching Z, all throughout my life! The overwhelming violence and dark themes worked really well then-so I do not understand why they have strayed so far from that, when it really, REALLY worked, even for kids. And the only actual child in the show at that time was Gohan, so it’s not even like kids were “represented” all the time unless it was through Gohan. I just don’t understand.
Aging the characters down to me is just symbolic of the fact that the series will do anything for nostalgia bait. We got ssj2 nostalgia bait and Cell nostalgia last movie and let's not mention Frieza. I'm just so tired of seeing the series reuse things over and over. And, people didn't like aging Goku down in GT and they did that shit AGAIN.
@@QuantumMecha They haven't strayed from that, or aleast we don't know if they have. The only thing we have is a minute long teaser that tells pretty much nothing.
@@tristysstuff6664 But people absolutely loved DBS Broly that brought Broly back, and the Android saga that brought the androids back, and the 3 tournament arcs in og DB that are all tournaments with the same premise. Anything can work if they do it right
5:39 I get your point, but it’s fallacious in this context. The creators of the dragon ball super manga have been very creative within the arcs that series, and we want to see it continued in animated form. We’re not enslaving the creative team at toei by asking them to continue the mainline series. Imagine a world where the Harry Potter book series is going strong with book 6. We’ve received movie adaptations of the first 3 books, but WB and JK Rowling refuse to release a goblet of fire movie because they want to focus on their spinoff series - fantastic beasts and where to find them. HP fans would be understandably frustrated
Then I think you missed a couple of Mark's very good points. Goku, Vegeta, and a couple other characters can't truly go on fun new adventures as adults because of the current power scales, there's no room for unique stakes or grounded choreography with martial arts at it's root, ya know, to really harken back to the golden days of the original DB story like Toriyama wants.
@@Anim0sityyThen simply have the villains of the series take away their power and transformations, instead of their age. Problem solved. There's literally no reason why the characters are turned into kids here other than nostalgia baiting.
@@MrKilljaythey did take the power away with the age thing its a much better explanation than just their powers are gone but not all and they still seem the exact same, this way we can easily tell theres a difference
@@uhuh.2232 Just having their powers be gone doesn't make any less sense than them being kids again for no reason. Just come up with some BS explanation. The Dragon Balls, magic, whatever. Literally the same plot of the series could take place with the characters as adults. I'll repeat. Nothing about this series requires the characters to be children again. It's just nostalgia bait. Just like Resurrection F, the Broly movie, and Cell Max vs Gohan.
@@Anim0sityyI disagree, there's nothing that states that power levels should directly affect the adventures characters can have, and we don't even know if Goku is any weaker despite becoming a child again.
Dragon ball Daima appears to encapsulate one of my biggest problems with modern Dragon Ball: A refusal to move on. Here we are regressing once more instead of creating stories past the end of Z. Sure, Daima might work in its own self-contained way, but I am sick of characters staying the same.
As someone who would like to see Super return following the manga arcs, I'm hoping Daima is a good time. It has potential to be really dynamic with the fights.
Just a small counterpoint: writer's have been living by the phrase "give the audience the thing they didn't know they wanted" for decades now, like it's the most profound bit of writing advice that's ever existed. And I think a lot of pop entertainment writers have, kind of unintentionally, interpreted that bit of advice pretty simplistically and dogmatically, that it's led to a general homoginizing trend in the approach to writing in popular fiction that essentially boils down to a Vince Russo esque "swerve for the sake of a swerve" style of writing. It's risky trying to come up with something the audience didn't know they wanted (and the results of whiffing on those attempts can really turn off an audience), and you're not always going to bat a thousand when you do that. Where it gets really detrimental is when you're *always* trying to do the unexpected and taking risks to give the audience something they didn't know they wanted because you're high on your own hype and always trying to be the smartest guy in the room, and those kinds of writers end up finding 10 things they didn't know the audience would never, *ever* want for everything they did that was something the audience didn't know they wanted. It's why I hate that phrase - so many creators just accept it as this universal truth they always need to be striving for and employing it dogmatically. I felt like every month in the 2000s some flash in the pan comics writer the audience ultimately turned on down the road was quoting it in a Wizard magazine puff piece interview where the interviewer was basically blowing the writer telling them how clever and awesome they were. For the most part, you should just be focusing on giving them the thing YOU are confident the audience wants, and sometimes it's going to be something they wouldn't expect they'd like, and other times it's going to be the obvious thing that you and the readers know is cool. If you don't, you're not gonna last very long because you only get to waste so many opportunities giving the audience the thing they didn't know they never wanted because they never thought anybody would be dumb enough to try to force such a bad idea to work until you came along and tried to give it to them like a hack-who-doesn't-know-they're-a-hack trying to impress their peers with how clever they think they are with a stupid swerve.
This is a really good point, but I just find it kind of funny how you said 'Quick Counterpoint' and then wrote part of an essay. (Not saying your points are invalid, just saying it's funny)
good thing this doesnt apply to Daima's case. Over the years I've seen so so many fans and people in general ask for the classic "Dragon Ball feeling" back, with more grounded combat, powers that actually felt like magic, a grandious feeling of adventure with both comedy and tension, etc. It totally feels like Daima is aiming in that direction. And if writers listen to that, theres no way a "give them what they didnt know they wanted" case can happen, here specifically.
@Ango825 I wasn't so much saying it applied here, it's just something I hear creators and critics alike say it, and when Mark mentioned it in his video, I thought it was a good chanc3 to get off a rant I've been sitting on for years lol
Anyone who thinks that people only like Dragonball because of the fights and transformations should watch Dragonball Heroes, because Dragonball Heroes is only action and transformations and nothing else. It isn’t very good because Gohan’s super saiyan 2 transformation isn’t good just because it’s a new flashy power up, it’s good because it was something that was building up throughout the entire series.
Stephanie is what most of us grew up with as Goku and has that great energy. Colleen did great as Kai's Gohan (which I didn't know I needed). But after hearing Colleen's Goku in DBZ's Kakorot DLC:, I do miss Steph's Goku, but there's a chance she's not available.
@differentperson6790 Colleen is pretty good. Her Kid Gohan voice grew on me during this past decade. However, I'm still not used to her being as the voice of Kid Goku. I think it'd be a great idea if Stephanie voiced Kid Goku while Colleen voiced Kid Gohan in Daima. A bit of a nice throwback for old Dragon Ball fans.
@@MikeAruba69 If it's really a celebration of 40 years of the anime, it would be nice. The Funi staff have hired previous VA back for Super as fun callbacks to their earlier work, so I think it's possible. Biggest example I can think of is Brian Drummand as Copy Vegeta from Super, as he's represents the most evil of Vegeta (it's what I think of when I think of the Saiyan Saga).
@@briansilva3344 I never actually thought about the fact that BD again plays an EVIL Vegeta in Copy Vegeta, once again obsessed with power but not training to get it.
To me, Daima's mass age down is one of the series' best excuses to actually let the side characters participate since Z. Because even if the Saiyans are just automatically better than everyone else, presumably everyone will be weaker than the villains in this state. So, hopefully, teamwork and strategy will be the main factors in overcoming the odds. Also, I think it would be cool if their altered biology actually left the Saiyans unable to use their Super/God forms for a little while. Full-on back to basics stuff.
WHAT ABOUT TRUNKS AND GOTEN??? The characters who have amounted to n o t h i n g this entire franchise! They're gone because of this decision, it's a horrible decision even in that light
@@ihavenonamestilldonthaveon8970 I would have prefered keeping the boys older and seeing how they handled the situation, but I do like the legacy characters more, so I can't really say that it bothers me too much.
I'm looking forward to Daima, but they could have solved it differently. For example, the villain (whoever that is) could have wished "I wish the Z-Fighters were all weaker than me!"
Toriyama is not to be over rated, if it wasn’t for his editors we wouldn’t have Cell, plus he’s the primary responsible for the Buu saga (the worst DBZ arc). Idk if you have read his other works, but they are very humor directed.
@@twentyfivemelody Yes, you know better than toriyama how to make a good Dragon Ball story.... And Buu arc is the worst arc bc fans couldn't handle Goku being dead so he had to discard his plans of turning Gohan into the main character.
The thing that worries me the most about this is that they're effectively "starting over", but are they keeping all the same voice actors? At this point, Goku's Japanese VA is 87! Hopefully this is a short series that is 26 episodes at most. Otherwise, they're going to have to resort to necromancy to keep these characters voiced going forward.
Me personally, I just feel deflated by the prospect of Daima doing an entirely new story that'll probably be far removed from the other stuff that Super set up that's been dangling for years now with no significant payoff. To this day since the T.O.P ended, there hasn't been a single character or story aside from maybe the games that's seriously explored the other universes and their untapped possibilities. But who knows, maybe leaving those threads to dangle is for the better, it just kinda sucks to not see any follow-through before switching gears
As a fan of OG dragon ball, I am both excited and nervous for this change. I am hoping it leads to the same fun adventurous and epic storytelling that series had. I'm not expecting the tournament arcs from then, but I would love for something the gives the same feel as King piccolo, or hell even the lead up through the red ribbon army. The animation alone gives me faith that this will be at the very least entertaining. Will it be good? We'll have to see.
Same. It looks like it'll be some good, lighthearted fun while we're waiting for Super to continue. If it's good, even better. If it's mid, at least we have something to watch while we wait.
The thing is, days before the announcement, I was discussing in a group chat how turning Goku into a kid was one of the worst decisions GT made, so it felt like they heard and said “oh, you didn’t like that?.. HERE! Everyone’s a kid now!”
Exactly this a rehash of GT and the OG Dragon Ball. Another nostalgia bait Mark here doesn't realize that most people like Z and Super and want more of that. We wanted a continuation of Super but instead we got this.
My biggest concern is actually that I'm struggling to see the logical reasoning behind babyfying everyone in the first place if they all keep their memories and powers, and how they're going to find logic in keeping Pan, Goten, Trunks, and even Gohan around when their parents were aged back to a point before they ever had children. If everyone who can fight back has been aged back to allow someone to take over the world by making them weaker and unaware, à la Experiment 151 from Lilo and Stitch, then leaving the main cast with their powers and wits doesn't really make sense. If it was a set age reversal for the main cast overall, then not only should certain characters cease to exist, but other characters who have lived for far longer (Roshi) or whose age has little effect on their physical appearance (Piccolo) shouldn't become the same as others and should stay relatively older or at least bigger. The main issue right now for me though, is that this was clearly something done specifically to the main cast, as the teaser trailer shows human adults being confused in the background at 2:20. So why, if everyone else only got turned into children with all their adult knowledge, would the younger characters get turned into mindless babies..? My best guess is to create some character conflicts and give a reason for certain characters to have to stay behind and look after them, which in most circumstances is considered lazy writing.
Yeah the child goku thing in GT felt supremely pointless to me, especially when for some reason, SSJ4 turns you into an adult? It felt like an attempt to recapture dragon ball's magic, but dragon ball's magic wasn't from Goku being tiny, but from him also having *the mind of a child*. Similarly here, I am not sure what the point of it is supposed to be from a storytelling perspective. But I'm not a doomer about it, we'll see, maybe they come up with something good.
@@Junebug89 SSJ4 turned Goku into an adult because he needed an adult body to contain all the power he got. Not sure how that was hard to understand, I think I understood it pretty well. I don't think it was just to recapture the magic of Ball, specifically Goku being turned into a kid, but also to give Goku a limit to what he can do. He couldn't turn into anything past Super Saiyan due to lack of stamina in a child's body and couldn't use Instant Transmission (don't ask me how that makes sense, but it did make tensions feel pretty high). It was neat seeing Goku fight without just having to transform and throw a Kamehameha to kill an enemy, he had to use his Martial Arts prowess (which he had become a master of). Of course, when he got his tail back he was able to go into Super Saiyan 3, but he rarely did that unless he needed to. I can't imagine they'd do the same for Daima. GT just had a different kind of magic to it, even if it does have its flaws. This just feels pandering.
@@biohazardbin Super Saiyan Four Goku doesn't turn Goku into an adult, Super Saiyan Four turns the giant ape smaller and more humanoid. Case in point Vegeta is already an adult but super saiyan four makes him taller. It is a combat transformation independent of physical maturity.
My problem is not a GT2.0 complaint. I never thought it was. My problem is it's Dragonball: Babies. I get wanting new stuff, but "thing but babies" isn't a new idea.
The main problem with Daima: Its a series and not a special. If it was simply a 30-60 minute special for DB's 40th anniversary, a little filler episode throwback to OG DB before its all wished back, people would reach much more positively to it. But for a new DB series, people were expecting adaptations of the Moro and Granolah arcs, something they've been waiting on forever and with this series schedule, could've been amazing adapted. Its just disappointing to know that Toei could be producing those arcs that actually develop the story but instead focus an entire series on what should be a filler concept.
It's not Daimas problem its the Fans problem. They are extremely greedy always demanding what they want and only what they want. Anything new will be disgusting to them cuz they just want Moro. Now i even Hope Daima becomes a main stage in Dragon ball story line cuz i feel like Fans don't deserve so much on what they demand. Toriyama, Toei they are doing something they seem to have clear vision for and i have high hopes. Also watch the dam video before making a bold statement like gyat dayum
@@Rayquaza-Really It really is tho. Sure you can't always give fans what they want, its not like fans are the all knowing people of the series like so many think they are, but throw them a bone sometimes. Its not greedy to want an adaptation of something you've been waiting for years, and don't forget Moro was new but people still liked it. They're not "greedy" for wanting something more than just a filler series, and in fact desiring Daima to be the main storyline just to spite the fans is very hypocritical and arguably worse. Also, Daima is not a concept that can/should be stretched out into an entire series, its arguably more of a sign of a lack of clear vision since now there's so many storylines going on. Also the video changes nothing about my statement.
@@Rayquaza-ReallyYou think the people working on it werent fans too? Most of the people working on Dragon ball today are fans of the serie and their ideas made some tragic results. Heck, I bet some of them had better ideas from the author or executives (who are fans too) but was outnumbered.
I'll keep my opinions about Daima saved for when the show actually comes out but its funny to me that Everytime I see Kid Goku in Daima I just think of how Goku used to be the lovable pudgy lil kid in original DragonBall vs his Chibi Look now lol I know its Toriyama's Modern style but it still makes me chuckle cause Honestly even going back to DragonBall Super Broly when we saw Kid Vegeta and Kid Raditz in that, they looked more like they were Chibi characters than actual kid versions. It reminds me of how Pikachu used to be as well when you compare him in the early 90s episodes vs how he looks today in them heck even Pre timeskip Chopper vs Post Time Chopper as well haha
To me children/kids having stocky or stubby bodies is important. Their proportions make me feel like I AM looking at kids. But these stick-like bodies look damn offputting to me. Them being stocky also gives more leeway to imply they have muscle under what may seem fat.
@@s3studios597 I can live with the designs as long as they don't draw the kids with abs. I hated that on Gotenks and I'll hate that for the rest of the charachters if they do it. There's no reason to give the kid designs that.
The creators of DB painted themselves into a corner. Where are the characters suppose to go? Who should they fight? It's hard to imagine more powerful beings in that universe.
New Antag is a magical being that can only be damaged by the person with a matching power level. Suddenly, everyone from Goku/Vegeta to Yamcha could have a role to play. Came up with that in less than 2 minutes.@@BAJF93
@@BAJF93they did, but could be fixed, you know how? USE THE FUCKING KIDS! Or just introduce something to scale down the Saiyans. Explore the remaining universes, Namekians, why there are Tuffles and Yardrats outside the universe 6/7. Its not like there isnt anything left in lore to explore. Moro showed that magic could put the cast to shame.
Great video, Mark but I think you're way off base about what makes most Dragon Ball fans love the series. Just like you, I am one of the fans that appreciates the world and the characters and the stories surrounding the awesome, bombastic fights. But most DB fans do not fall into that camp. We are a minority in this fandom. There is a popular meme in the fandom that says "don't fuck with DB fans. We haven't even watched our own show." Most fans of Dragon Ball are really fans of Z and Super, and they don't even know that Piccolo used to be evil, for example, or that there was a whole other half of the series that took place before the Saiyan Saga. I am also a member of many online communities where the series is discussed, and I am sure that you know how often people will misremember or make up or otherwise be incorrect about certain facts and details concerning the story's plot. It's part of the same reason why discussions about power scaling are more prevalent on the internet than discussions about story and narrative. Most people only really care about the flashy eye-catching action. I think you're giving the fan base way too much credit in assuming that most of us are like you.
Toriyama and Toyotaro constantly teasing Goten and Trunks being older and giving Gotenks another shot only to yank it away from us reminds me of the Simpsons episodes where Maggie is grown up in future story episodes but still doesnt talk because of strange circumstances, which makes me think they're doing it deliberatly just to have fun with the whole concept. The current arc in the manga giving them some of the spotlight has me excited for their future past the arc
I'm excited for it. Sure I'm hesitant, but with Toryama involved so heavily and now knowing they've already produced the episodes makes me more invested.
Yeah, I'm a fan of GT and think it's cool Toriyama is going to give the basic concept a redo. It shows that he supported the de-aging idea all along; now he has the chance to do it right.
As a 20+ year long Dragon Ball fan. Original Dragon Ball when Goku’s a kid is my favorite in comparison to Z. Primarily because it was martial arts, no type of screaming or surprise transformation was available to save you in a fight that suddenly boosts your speed, durability, power, and reflexes. It was how you outwit, out do, and utilize the skills you’ve refined and techniques you’ve gathered throughout your martial arts journey. Which is why Krillin was such a beast and even though he was completely no match for Goku in their first tournament together, Krillin was crafty enough to hang in with Goku for as long as he did. Z was amazing but holy hell the amount of true choreography or any type of skill flew right out the window. Same with Super, I felt that SSJG was fine as is and didn’t need to make SSJB and then Goku Black Rose? Then Trunks got a weird form, Vegeta made his own version of SSJB refined, then Ui Omen and Mastered Ui, then we get Goku Beast and Ultra Ego?? It’s just too much and strayed so far away from what DB at its soul was about and why it was so good. I felt the transformations held it back and now hold little to no weight. SSJ was special, SSJ2 was an insane spectacle that was built up since Gohan was introduced first got angry, then suddenly SSJ3 is a thing? I wish they’d stop with the transformations. I’d rather see Goku refine the hell out of either UI or SSJG, I’d rather see Gohan refine the hell Mystic, I’m glad Piccolo got a new form cause he and Tien are the only two who never stopped training that aren’t Goku and Vegeta.. I dunno man I’m just a fan
This is juat flat out wrong, roshi in og dragon ball said that power us what ultimately decides a fight, martial arts was the fight choreography, and og dragon ball had just as many punch punch puncj exhanges with reused animation, the goku vs krillen fight was an exception and not the standard.
I don't quite get your point about it not being "GT 2". We are not saying "omg it's literally the continuation of Dragonball Gt" but rather "holy hell didn't they learn their lesson with GT?" The criticism of the fanbase, or what I think it is, is that having goku and the cast turning children means the show will go in a certain direction, most likely less epic, grandiose, there's going to be less focus on the different universes and their protagonists and all that in favor for a more kid-friendly, cute and innocent show. Granted this doesn't necessarily mean that DAIMA is going to be a bad show or that it shouldn't exist, rather than the its focus will be in contrast with what the fanbase has been looking forward with the series since... Z, honestly. I'm glad we're having something different instead of upping the scale everytime a new enemy shows up, but I'm just not excited by the stories that we can tell by having the cast be... babies
GT's problem was that it was bad, let's get that out of the way. It wasn't that Goku was a kid, or that he was going on a space adventure, or the fact that Pan and Trunks were there, it was because it was bad (and without Toriyama). How many content creators and TH-cam comments have to say "good ideas, poorly executed" when referring to GT before that's understood. Not to mention that calling it a copy of GT just because Goku is a kid again is just superficial as hell. Mark also addressed the idea that young characters = safer, kiddie show: Original Dragon Ball exists, dude. All this to say what was repeated in the video - it's not out yet.
yes but are people even saying that one of the good ideas of GT is bringing back kid goku? I don't think it is. Usually the good ideas of GT are SSJ4, the corrupted dragonball and a couple of storyline. Saying "people dislike it because it's bad" doesn't help any argument if you don't aknowledge WHY it is bad. Also let's be real here: dbz is darker than OG dragonball@@chubomikz7104
Love how fans like this call super trash nostalgia bait. But they turn Goku into a kid and give him back that pole and they drop straight to their knees.
"Dont be caught asking for faster horses when the possibility of something new is right around the corner" Currently the something new just looks like Teen Titans GO. If something drastic happens it could push away so many newer fans of series. Hopefully it's good but it should be easy to tell why people are worried.
I mean it's not GT2 in a literal sense, but it does inevitably invoke GT feels because it has similarities as compared to canon sequel series stories like Super or the new-era movies.
Given the trailers hints to Bibidi with the Buu arc being replayed on the villains screen I believe that the foe of this series is the Universe 6 counterpart to Bibidi that has its own Buu.
While im hearing some of your defenses there are some core issues with Daima: A) A good LOOKING anime =/= a good story. OG DB far in apart looks the worst in terms of quality compared to what would come later, but is still widely regarded some of if not the best work in the series. DB was good cause of its characters and story, and of some of the crude humor intermixed. Super Hero left a lot of people disappointed despite how good looking it is, yet most people would say Battle of Gods (which has that shiny art style that is so hated) is one of the best as examples B) Just cause Goku is a kid equally doesn't mean this show is gonna be GT anymore than it is gonna be the OG DB. The main issue with Super WASNT an inconsistent quality of art style and animation (While definetly an issue), but the characterization of a Goku and the rest of the gang that came after Z as well as some of the villains and arcs being laughably generic. C) Making everyone kids completely reverts their progression. This is especially true for Goten and Trunks, who are basically babies now, but its bigger than that. Part of what made DB great was watching Goku and the gang grow up and eventually build a family, hell thats what some of the best Shonens follow in a nutshell (Naruto and Bleach at least). Them being kids is a reset button on progression which is probably the worst way to continue content for your franchise. If you wanted to recapture the magic of DB, why not just remaster the quality of the original show to celebrate its anniversary? rather than just re-tread on its already done ideas. Most people ive seen talk about the last two movies really enjoyed the original DB scenes remade for the call backs in their films, so why not just remaster the Goat rather than Emulate it? D) Daima basically highlights the main issue with Modern DB, it started with ROF and came back with DBS Broly and then Super Hero: Its obsession with rehashing old ideas. Not concepts, not designs (Sometimes at least) but entire arcs and characters. DBS SH was probably the most blatant example as the villain, Beast transformation, the overal plot and even some of the shots from the fight itself is a blatant rehash of the Android and Cell Sagas. I wouldnt be surprised if in 2-3 years we get a movie about Buu being a villain again. What Super Hero is to Cell Saga is what Daima is to OG DB. E) When people say they want a continuation of DBS, it isnt just about the DBS Manga. YES most people want to see the Manga events adapted into the anime the same way the Manga adapted the Anime when it came out. However, it comes from a genuine desire to see the series continue one way or another. Daima is extremely disappointing because as far as im aware; it takes place *before* Super. So any hopes of it maybe being a filler arc prior to the real DBS series or somehow being a tie in are basically thrown out right off the rip. You also have to take into account that Toriyama has been blue balling his fanbase with new movies every few years. So naturally we have been expecting the anime to EVENTUALLY return especially with the manga adapting the Movie events into its cannon. Toriyama could've continued DBS in his own unique way without adapting any of the manga if he so chose, but with Daima he chose to do neither valid option and instead do what is basically a soft reboot. Which much like the common criticism, isn't what DB fans have ever asked for, and as such he and his fans cannot blame the rest of the community for not accepting or welcoming Daima. F) Because this series comes before Super, and is supposedly non cannon to Super, none of what happens in it really matters. It reeks of filler, and all things like it. As a fan, you cant be expected to accept Daima and its ideas off the back of the last 5 years of building up hype towards a canonical continuation of the anime only to be given what is essentially a slap in the face. I really don't know why Toriyama would think DB fans would've accepted this without controversy knowing damn well we wanted DBS to continue and he's been sorta continuing it every few years. I mean the initial reaction to this is exactly what id expect given the fact most people dont like GT and the main plot that starts GT is "Someone made a wish to turn Goku into a kid" and granted theres more to GT but that doesn't change how similar it is conceptually. G) Initial impressions are everything. A lot of people will avoid watching this just like Heros and GT just because of the initial impression. On the opposite side, a lot of people are gonna watch this just because its DB and it "looks pretty" because as DB fans we have been starved of animated content. 2 individual movies over the course of 5 years cant make up for what having a series week by week will ever do. If the anime had actually ended when it did, Daima would be more acceptable. But since Toriyama has gone out of his way to continue the story through movies, we wont be happy till we get a proper ending. - You cant have Legacy of Goku without GT being completed, and you cant have Battle of Gods without Z being complete either. So making an entirely different show that doesnt continue the story left hanging but with the same characters of said story, is a dick move. Especially since that time, effort, and money could be better spent on something more concrete that is more likely to succeed, its better both for fans and for business' to just continue Super rather than invest in something you cant be sure people are gonna like, especially given the response to the show already. H) Toriyama went through the trouble of bringing new core characters to the series; Revamp Broly, Cheelai, Gamma 1 and 2, and DR Hedo. They are gonna be reoccurring characters in the story just like Beerus and Whis were when they were introduced. However he has yet to actually capitalize on the interest he's built in them by not continuing DBS. So it begs the question; why introduce them at all? why not just treat them like the original Broly or other Z movie villains who are one offs that either die or have to leave the universe for one reason or another like in the case of Tapion? Moreover what was the point of giving Gohan and Piccolo new transformations if he's not gonna capitalize on the interest in those Legacy characters? That's the other problem, we can assume he is 100% going to continue the series at SOME point, but Daima is gonna hinder and delay that one way or another. At least if there was no show we would know that the hiatus time was spent on that show, but if DBS returns with "budget issues" the same way it had when it first launched, we will know exactly why. Even if it DOESNT have this issue, it would still beg the question of why delay it at all when we've already waited so long. Bleach had legit reasons as to why it couldn't return for 12 years, and why it was canceled in the first place. DB does not have such excuses and we have almost waited half of that time. Daima is basically a conglomerate of the issues with Modern Dragon Ball, but also mixed with the issues of how Toriyama has treated his fanbase over the last 5 years. To reiterate what I said earlier, Daima would be acceptable when Super was actually finished, but not a moment sooner. Maybe it'll be good, great even, but at the cost of the story he left behind and it wont change the fact that none of it adds anything to previously established story we got in Super. If Toriyama wanted this to go over well he should've shelved this idea for later on when he actually finished Super. IF this series does surprisingly well, then what? make another Daima? further ignore DBS Anime return? or shelve the return of Daima for when you finish DBS? either way the order is nonsensical. Finishing Super would allow him to have the freedom to do whatever he wants with the franchise with less controversy, the same way GT has a fanbase when Z was finished despite it not being officially cannon, or DB AF when GT was finished and so on. Battle of Gods was the same way when it came out, it was free to make changes to the larger world of DB because Z had finished and GT was never cannon. Harry Potter did the same thing with the Fantastic Beast Trilogy. Daima could've been the GT or Fantastic Beasts for fans when they wanted more content when the series was well and truely over, rather than being an interruption. Daima being where it is doesn't help itself either, as itll likely be overshadowed by the DBS prior and the DBS that comes later, much like how CoD Ghosts is forgotten but not Cod Black Ops 2 or 3. Itll likely have its fanbase, but it'll likely be a much smaller fanbase than if it were allowed room to breathe without having the expectation of DBS suffocating it
Also A) what is a good looking anime? what is a good story? Opionions and different tastes, besides some objective points, cannot be argued with. For example, I personaly hate the art-style and commedy driven One Piece, but that doesn't make it any less succesfull. And example 2, I really like the Tournament of Power, but the 'story' is weak AF. To me, I'll leave Daima alone. I'll leave it for the newer generations, like I did with Pokémon. It's not for me, I'm to old for this shit.
You have me all the way with this. It hits ALL the points I have about these newer Dragon Ball series. Although, do not say GT is not canon. Canon doesn't mean a damn thing in this series. It's not like they don't still profit off of it, they put GT in Heroes, Xenoverse, FighterZ, probably Sparking! Zero when it comes out. Let's not pretend GT wasn't the official continuation for YEARS until Super came out.
I get what you're saying Mark, but I'm also skeptical about the chibi characters and I think with good reason. Whenever there is a "Chibi" anime of an established anime, that chibi anime is almost always a "gag-based" anime. Attack on Titan, One Piece, Naruto/Rock Lee all had these types of anime spin offs. And while this one DOES look like it's not going in that path, I think it's fair to say that "Chibi" in anime usually means a focus on silliness, gags, and usually for a younger audience so there is cause for concern. But on a more down to earth level. The man opened up the multiverse and introduced nearly 70 new characters as well as 4 universes that are still shrouded in secrecy. I would have loved to see an arc with some of these new people.
My problem with the "wish everyone to be a kid" aesthetic isnt that it's "GT 2.0," its that its based on the same fundamental problem GT had - and, to a certain extent, that Super had. Its pushing the story backward. Its trying to recapture the magic of a phase of the story that has already grown past that. You cant make Goku a kid again to go on OGDB-style Kid Goku adventures because goku ISN'T a kid anymore. He grew up. He went to namek. He died twice. Hes now rusen to the gods. He's NOT 12-year-old-who-never-saw-a-girl Goku anymore. and we shouldnt try to make him be that. It doesnt work when you age him down, and it doesnt work when Super makes him dumb as rocks when he wasn't in Z. Id prefer the series to look forward, rather than back. If tou want kids going on whimsical magical adventures, use Pan and Uub. Dont regress chatacters who, frankly, deserve more respect for the lives and struggles theyve had.
You’re right, fights and new forms are not all dragon ball is, but be careful not to undersell them. If the fights weren’t good, dragon ball would not be anything like what it is today.
18:28 I can't help but think the exact opposite of what TNM is saying here. The fact that they are recycling such a tired concept to monetise nostalgia for early DB seems to be a sign that the franchise is currently just as directionless as early GT was, and Toriyama being more involved than usual does not make me more optimistic, especially when the central concept is so unappealing (the man has had a lot of misses to go alongside his successes, after all).
Right, and GT feeling directionless is because Toriyama approved the concept, but then reverted back to the Z format after the ratings were plummeting.
7:34 This is my absolute favorite part of the video and really puts out there what I've been thinking whenever I've heard these sentiments. I think a big problem with DB is that there's a massive disconnect in the western fandom because there are fans who love the story, the characters, the quirky world and more. But for a good chunk of the general audience? It's not DB they like, it's DBZ. More specifically, it's the DBZ from their childhood, a series intentionally repackaged and reformatted to be a standalone action cartoon that tried to tap into the same bases that liked Mighty Morphin Power Rangers and shows like it. Now that's not an insult, I'm a dude with an Optimus Prime icon, I know what I love but we still see the effects of that to this day where frankly, it seems people treat Dragon Ball as if it needs to deliver constant hype when it's more than that. And I say this liking Super and being one of the many people hoping to see Moro animated. There was disappointment I felt when Daima was announced and when I saw the Magic leaks. However, that quickly passed since this looks fun and fresh and unlike GT with Akira Toriyama's involvement? I don't feel it's gonna walk back progress just because people cry about it because that's something we forget about GT too. It's not just that it's a bad story but also when the direction wasn't vibing with people, instead of tweaking and improving it? Toei threw up their hands and just turned the show into diet DBZ where more often than not story did not matter and was just set-up, characters were just traits slapped onto action figures and all that mattered was delivering the next spectacle which in GT more often than not looked like complete shit.
@@lwzeis This. I'm tired of these people constantly wanting everything to be grimdark or just be torture porn. These are the same people who think AI art democratizes art and is in anyway equivalent to the Digital vs Traditional art debate. No respect or appreciation for any processes and just devoid of life.
@@niggasmoker89 There's a difference between wanting good stories and what I'm describing. For instance, you could be someone who is not vibing with Daima's idea and that's understandable. But you have people who basically seem to think DB can only be one thing which is constant hype and fights, they want the version of DB that the old dub of Z presented them which this franchise has not been for years.
Yeah, I think Mr. Mark sometimes misunderstands the differences between the Japanese and Western fandom. The original Dragon Ball was hugely popular in Japan, but it remains niche here. Westerners really want more Z--and yes, more GT, to a degree. Everyone loves Super Saiyan 4.
9:46 I understand what Mark is saying however, I'd counter that with the fact that we already have kids in the show (goten, trunks, Bulla, pan, marron) that deserve some screen time and character growth. There's no good reason in my mind that goku and Co need to be turned into kids outside of nostalgia bait and monetary gain.
We still don't even know how canon Daima will be! This could be just a fun spin-off project for all we know. And even if it is canon, we have no idea where this will go! When have we ever been able to guess what Toriyama will do next? Even Toriyama doesn't always know what he's going to do next.
Mentions of canon are irrelevant. Dragon Ball is a multiverse, there is no canon but the original Japanese manga. Everything else is a timeline/alternate universe.
Doesnt your defense from criticism 4 only help to make the point of criticism 1 even stronger? Since GT was also made to capture the original DragonBall nostalgia.
I'm not Mark but here's the thing about GT, it aims to hearken back to the original Dragon Ball yes but its manner of doing so is only "Goku becomes kid and the set-up is an adventure with a group of characters.". Why GT falters is that it quickly abandons this and also does very little to begin with with this idea. For instance, Goku is not weakened. He can't use Instant Transmission and SS3 is more useless because the energy drain is more insane but Goku otherwise is just as skilled and capable as he was by the end of Z. Daima takes the OG DB homages a step further. As Toriyama's blurb and some clips of the trailer cover, Goku and the others do not have their crazy powers thanks to this. They still have Ki but judging from that scene of him floating off, their new bodies initially make them incapable of using it properly so they have to rely on hand-to-hand and in Goku's case, the Nyoibo. That's already doing a lot to bring the atmosphere of the original back.
I think my biggest problem with Daima right now is the character designs, I think the characters look more like chibi versions of themselves rather than kids.
My biggest issue with Dragon Ball DAIMA isn't everything discussed in this video but is the fact DB Daima is a series instead of a movie, allot of time will be wasted on this special project when DBSuper continuation is just waiting to be done,.I seriously hope DB Daima has less than 25 episodes with twice as less run time, a side-story ain't worth getting into if the main story is left waiting
my main problem with it is that theyll try to make it seem like og dragon ball, but make it more rated E for everyone like super is. I don't think kid goku will impale people with his body in this series.
Even though I’m the kind of fan who’s way more into the DBZ, GT and Super Broly art style, I’m willing to give it a chance based on the animation alone. However, the character designs are really throwing me off, they look less like actual kids and more like chibi versions of their adult designs. Can’t say I’m a big fan if modern Toriyama either…
We've been used to seeing Goku, Vegeta & co as adults, it's just off putting seeing them suddenly as toddlers espec considering the current age of most of the fanbase which boggles my mind how the ppl who made this decision glossed over that, it's in a way akin to the reboot of Ben 10 in terms of the fanbase's perception. Imagine the long time fans of Pokemon or Conan being told that Ash or Conan are now gon turn into adults in an instant, it's just stupid.
Americans seem to forget they DID NOT like the original Dragon Ball. It was so much of a flop that it didn't end up airing on USA, they directly skipped over to Z. I guess that could explain why they're not interested in Daima.
I know this is a year old, but I don’t care. I watched GT in Japan in 1996. I loved it. I had to wait a week for each episode and if I missed one, tough shit. This was long before streaming services, social media or even mediocre internet speeds. I had to break out the old rabbit ears to get Japanese channels. I guess that’s why I appreciated it so much. It’s all I had.
I love how at one point Mark says, that fans don't know what they want and then in the other praises Daima for maybe doing something some of the fans wanted
i want dragon ball daima! i just didn't know i wanted it until i saw the trailer. and i don't think i'm doing the impossible! i don't know what i want from dragon ball because i was fine when i thought it was over back in the 2000's. everything else is a nice bonus and i'm glad the creators are following the beat of their own drum.
@@dandyprophet And that's great. It's just that Marks point that fans don't know what they want is bad. It makes the assumption that we're unable to come up with new stuff and only the creators can be so benevolent to bestow Us with something that isn't a copy of what was, while He also mentions fan creations that do exactly that, fresh ideas.
I think the worst part about this will be that Funimation almost certainly will not bring back Stephanie Nadolny to voice Goku. We’re going to be stuck with Colleen Clinkenbeard :/
Man...the notion that Daima will at the very least have more Toriyama involvement than literally any project since the original series makes me have the slightest bit of hope that they won't bastardize the characters. Thank you for giving me that tinge of hope Mark.
Yeah the “people just want more forms” arguement is just dumb, the transformations and intense moments work BECAUSE of the emotional parts of the series, Goku going super saiyan wouldn’t have been as good if he wasn’t pushed to that point with krillins death
Well, I didn't follow the developement of daima, hence didn't form an opinion on it. But woah, the chibi style really does bode poorly for me. Also, I thought it would be a retelling of some kind, like path to power. Aging down EVERYONE does indeed feel a tad...awkward
I hate what regressing Goku to a kid again SYMBOLIZES, not just the fact it's just GT. It feels like a lot of the arguments here are heavily cherrypicked and extremized by adding reductionist words to their core message. Regressing Goku to a kid again is not a good thing at all. Super has already regressed Goku's character, having him repeat mistakes or be outright stupid (ex: Goku FORGETTING the senzus and mafuba seal which lead to trunks' future being erased and in the manga not finishing off Moro) and Daima is continuing this regression by turning Goku into a kid not only mentally but physically too. These are characters we've seen grow through battles and Daima said fuck that make em kids again cuz marketing. You'd think something for the anniversary would be celebrating the experiences these characters have had bit they spit in the face of that abd do the opposite. Also, Goku was literally aged up to fit DB's more fighting oriented action, but I guess they forgot that. (Edit: For the record I'm not saying that kid = bad fights, I'm sayinf that these dudes are willing to regress a character just for the sake of nostalgia.) I know that the show will probably be good, but i fucking hate how the DB series so reliant on nostalgia bait now. Ppl don't see the glaring flaws jn this decision and will just go "muhh nostalgia." In Super we've had Frieza return like 3 times, Cell return, and Broly return. Now for TO GO EVEN FURTHER BEYOND with nostalgia bait lets turn these damn near 50 year old characters to children! The show WILL be good, but i also think we'll get more stupid super Goku and regression of other characters lmao
I’ve been thinking about why Toriyama/Toei/whoever would choose to do this when you could see from a mile away that everyone would compare it to GT based on these surface level similarities. That just strikes me as a terrible marketing/hype-building strategy. BUT, then again, what if that was totally intentional. What if the whole plan was to use the kid aspect of the series to get vital arguments going online, fueling the feeling that we all HAVE to see how this turns out. That may be a genius gamble if it was intended!
Too genius. More likely, Toriyama had a fun idea that he wanted to try after being more involved with the last two movies than he was during the super anime.
That not likely the case GT perform well as much as dragonball Z and the movies. The reason it failed because it had no merchendise. I doubt they cared about what western audience felt about gt. And in terms of other mediaslike games etc gt is doing pretty well
As far as criticism #4 is concerned… I don’t care to split hairs between kids and babies. People want adult characters to stay adult characters, and that’s understandable.
"Guys, it's too early to tell for sure what Daima is going to be! We don't know anything! Also, I know for sure it won't be a slice of life because I need my argument to make sense" - Mark (2023)
@@enzog1078 Okay, so nothing ever changes and nothing is never new and nothing is ever revolutionary. Things will always be the way they have always been and they will stay that way simply because that's the way they've always been.
@@enzog1078 Let's completely ignore the fact that the same creator has already made leaps in tone, themes, and overall presentation. You're probably right though, we should ignore the fact that Akira Toriyama went from a gag mangaka, to an adventure-focused re-telling of journey to the west, to one of the greatest shonen battle manga ever... It's gotta be "idiotic conjecture" to say there's a chance he's interested in exploring the slice of life genre.
@@juangutierrez7277again, you’re assuming. There is no reason to believe this show will be slice of life. Nothing has been shown alluding to that. We know the show is dragon ball. That’s it. Is dragon ball a slice of life anime? No. It is not.
He is friends with Anime Ajay who is the one who leaked the show as Dragon Ball Magic and has insider information about the show. The two of them definitely know stuff about Daima that we don’t.
I still have some criticisms that would be nice to be shown if there is a follow up video 1. (What toriyama said daima is ganna be) Toriyama’s quote “be ready for a new cute adventure” has me worried. The original dragon ball was a fun adventure, but I never thought of it as a cute adventure. It had hard tension, and if toiryama is saying this, it makes me feel like there is no tension. 2.(the new designs) I still do not like the fact they are kids. The designs at the beginning of the trailer with adult GOKU and Vegeta looked so good and now it’s just a missed opportunity that we won’t be able to see probably until the last episode. I have been really wanting to see adult goku use his power poll again but that’s a personal reason. The real reason why I don’t like it is it does get rid of tension. it’s not fair to say this is like dragon ball because in dragon ball not everyone is a kid. The show still had tension because goku was a kid with a innocent design surrounded people who were evil with serious designs. Now that everyone is a kid, it just removes tension. I’m not ganna be able the take the steaks seriously if the entire group is getting beat with those character designs. They should have just had them stay adults, and if goku needed his powers to be taken away(which I don’t like), make it just that. 3. Having goku have all his powers taken away just feels like akira is trying to take the easy way out. If goku can’t transform he basically rested his growth to atleast the end of buu. If they really want to pull the plug on super, they should just do it already. Say super is non cannon, and give us a new story after battle of gods, because it really feels like that’s what akira wants to do. 4. In conclusion I really hope this isn’t just a cute adventure like toriyama said, and I hope I will be able to take the steaks seriously even with the designs. DAMMIT my adult goku with power poll adaptation nearly happened.
1. What you're referring to was Toriyama saying "different-from-usual battles that are cute and powerful". If that concerns you still, he also says "grand adventure with intense action" so it doesn't sound like it'll be bereft of tension. 2. Multiple characters being kids doesn't inherently remove tension. Also, Goku wasn't the only kid in original Dragon Ball, in fact many characters were, though different ages like Bulma, Krillin, Suno, Chi Chi, and Upa. Dragon Ball has had a number of child characters and it didn't remove or disallow for tension. Also, Mark already basically addressed the aesthetic choice multiple times so if you don't like it, that's fine, but it's on you if you can't take things seriously just because the characters are kids, it's not an objective flaw of the story. 3. Or Toriyama just wants to make something that's more like original Dragon Ball as a way of celebrating it and we don't have to remove Super or act like it doesn't exist just to do it. 4. I defer back to 1 regarding "cute adventure" and whether or not you're able to take the tension seriously is up to you. You get to decide how much the child aesthetic matters to you and how you view the story, it's not an involuntary response, so how you view Daima and whether or not you enjoy it is just your choice.
Mark ima keep it real with you, in a year from now you're gonna be taking all this back. Mark: "These cute chibis wont be used as cute chibis, have you SEEN dragon ball" Mark, have you seen how popular the minions are? Have you forgotten this is toei animations were talking about? Has it occurred to you its no longer 1995?
i mean it is comparable to GT in a way, GT and diama are mainly made to quell the thirst for DB, since super doesn't have enough content to run for a couple years straight atm and they don't want to push it out with a ton of filler. what is better about diama here is that they arn't selling it as a continuation of the series, and selling it as its own thing like heroes. which i can respect.
What are you talking about??? Yes, it would NOT be fair to call Dragon ball z terminator 2 just because of the androids, but it's totally fair to say this looks like dragon ball gt 2.0 based on what we've seen so far. Those 2 comparisons are NOT the same thing at all. The 1st example are 2 completely different franchises that aren't similar at all, and the 2nd example are 2 shows from the EXACT SAME franchise both using the EXACT same gimmick, kid goku. I'd say those 2 examples aren't comparable at all, and it's totally fair to make the GT comparison with the 2nd one if you wanted to, because why wouldn't you, it's the exact same idea, just with a different story.
You have to admit it’s a bad look to use a similar idea to one of the most mixed series in dragon ball history. Had toei just done a super continuation I bet the fanbase wouldn’t have complained at all
My main issue with Daima is the aging down to babies of Trunks (mostly) and Goten. They finally were allowed to grow up and actually contribute, even if Gotenks almost put a damper on their reappearance. (I honestly wish Gotenks would never appear again, since he is more of a ball and chain on the boys' character development) Seriously Trunks thanks to meeting his Future counterpart has all the set up you need to make the character stand out and grow but both boys seemed to be doomed to be nothing but joke fodder. (Also bringing in the Time Patrol would've fixed the Future Trunks arc's ending IMO)
After watching the ultra vegito here on TH-cam I can honestly say I don't expect anything as interesting as that from the official Dragonball. The thing I really don't like is kid goku againl, I really want Goku back from Z, super really dumbed down Goku at times.
trev carried the drawings so hard. massive respect. That final shot especially. It's like a memory that doesn't exist. I can almost see it move as an unreleased scene of DBZ. Lovely. Trev is intensely good at drawing the faces, hair, hands and clothing. Massive, massive respect as always
5:07 Danny! I heard Danny’s voice and did a hard double take lol Was not expecting this cameo Edit: I’d like to note that Danny is a comedian. He says a LOT of things that heavily exaggerate his actual opinion.
I, for one, am very glad fans don't get "everything they want." Because frankly, when fans do create their own content, it inevitably has a distinct feel of edginess, lack of creativity and simple-minded, violent aggression. Even Toyotaro's original fan mangas did this, exactly. I honestly don't think character's eyes can get any squintier. (You know what I'm talking about.) Every series variation thrives off being counter-balanced by the adventurous spirit, comedy and wholesomeness that's existed since the first chapter of Dragonball. And most fans suck at emulating that, because all they can think of is color forms, angry expressions and grunting. Heroes is exactly that, and it sucks. Daima may be underwhelming, but I'm glad it's closer to GT 2 than Heroes 2. Or AF 2 for that matter.
Get what you mean by this. Even a great example of tue animation that was shown. I think work like these relies heavily on whats already establish ( why bother creating quailty of life aspect if you already know the property) then creating one yourself. I do think Daima is something Fans need to kinda break down that dragonball is a series is only about fighting
Made a lot of good points mark. Only thing I’m not a fan with are the fact that the characters are all kids and babies, just a personal thing probably. Hope it isn’t that last the whole series. Apart from that I’m interested to see what this series will be about. I trust Toryima and look forward to what it may bring. Also beautiful artwork 🐉
Mark, I appreciate you immensely, but I have to say something. Your comments miss the mark. This is a not a series for us (millennials). We are old and this looks like a series that is meant to bring in an entirely new generation of kids, and it is drawn and marketed as such. It's a way to soft-reboot the series for an entirely new generation where we, the now-parents, will support their children to purchase merchandise and be involved with the franchise. Maybe it'll be a good story, maybe it won't. I certainly hope it's a compelling story with great action. But this is undeniably an attempt to bring Dragonball to a new audience and make money off a franchise that is beloved by hundreds of millions.
Criticism 1: that's basically it. There are no superficial similarities, it's the same concept (A series that seeks to bring back the adventurous part of the beginning of Dragon Ball and transforms the protagonist into a child). Whether the series will prove to be different enough or will stick to the original proposal (which GT didn't do) is another story. Criticism 2: At the same time: yes, the person can complain and say: "who asked for this?" and no: "it's just another anime in the franchise, not the NEXT DRAGON BALL Z" it doesn't have to be the next big anime. Is it fair to criticize the work for not being what you expected? maybe yes maybe no. 7:32 Not what he said and what you put in the video, he clearly meant: "Toriyama is no longer in tune with the Fanbase/most of it" and IT'S TRUE, just look at dragon ball minus or Fukkatsu no F 8:15 you just did the same thing as him, if he doesn't speak for the majority of the fanbase, neither do you Criticism 3: it's just stupid. The only valid thing is: the showtime. What time will the anime show? because the Dragon Ball Anime is much more violent and SERIOUS than the Super (which barely had any blood in the anime), if the criticism is not about the possible prior censorship due to the airing time, it is idiotic. Criticism 4: it's just stupid. Criticism 5: preferring the fights that Goku is no longer, but children are a taste. 17:05 baseless speculation. 20:09 ok... and? When you criticize the flaws in his works, he's not that GOD who doesn't make mistakes and everything he touches automatically becomes perfect that you talk about with so much pleasure. I don't think Toriyama is perfect, much less infallible... Espero que Daima seja bom.
Mark, i know you are raising some good points, but many fans just won't take the time to consider them. First impression is always crucial, and after seeing the trailer for Daima, i'm sure it alienated a lot of fans and they instantly decided they won't like this. Unless there will be a very good reception to it, and fans will encourage others to try it out, I just don't see it going as well as it could. DBS ended on a high note and fans were left eager to see when the story will resume. In the meantime we had the cinematic spectacles that were the Broly and Super Hero movie, which further raised fans expectations for the day that the anime will resume. So getting Daima instead of a continuation of Super must have left many people with a sour taste in their mouth.
The concept of the fans knowing better for a fan base which the stereotype is that they argue about power levels in a series where every arc resets the power scale. Quite frankly no, fans don’t know what makes a show good. They know what they like and that’s it.
Kinda yes & kinda no. Some “fans” clearly don’t pay attention to details and just want a completely ridiculous canon that doesn’t fit the themes of the story, but on the other hand, real fans who understand the story have come up with awesome theories on where to take a series that could be great with an Authors’ idea incorporated for some twists of their own. The blanket statement of fans not knowing what they want feels disingenuous to fans who truly understand the series & want to see an author expand on concepts that are lacking
@@finalgaming8053 nah fans don’t know shit. They think they would know better when the bad thing already ended. Even if you gave them everything they wanted they would absolutely find a reason to complain. Shoot, said fans right now are going crazy over a series that Hasn’t even been released yet, at this point I’m starting to believe the only sane people are just the people who enjoy the show and ends it at that.
Now that you actually bring up the whole Spiderman joke in the first half of the video believe it or not I actually had that exact situation happen to me. And the funny thing was, was that I ALREADY OWNED Spiderman 2 for the ps2!
Fans got upset that their making Dragon Ball Babies and Mark really just went, " you dont understand, this is innovative, the only possible way to get good detail fight choreography in dragonball again is to make the entire cast toddlers!"
RIP Toriyama, but he lost touch a long time ago. This is a Vince McMahon situation, a man who was good at the start but slowly lost touch. That's how DBS superhero was named. He didn't remember the series was already called Super. The people who work with him in Japan didn't dare to correct him or question him.
Everyone: This is like a *sequel* to GT! TNM: No, this isn't a *rehash* of GT! That guy from TikTok: Toriyama doesn't know what DBZ fans *want* ! TNM: Toriyama knows exactly what Dragon Ball *is* ! Also, this is what we always wanted so shut up.
I was so thrown off when I heard ff14 music, otherwise thank you for putting out more art showcases, seeing people draw something they're passionate about is always inspiring
Honestly I think I know what I wanted, and it wasn't the Moro arc I wanted to explore the other universes established in Super, I wanted Vegeta to finally go visit U6 Sadala with Cabba, I wanted to see how would the new Jiren be, I wanted to see if 17's wish brought back the universes previously erased BEFORE the tournament of power I want Dragon Ball to use what it establishes and has yet to use rather than introduce something that feels both recycled (Red and Gero's descendants, Cell Max, Babidi possible relation in the trailer) and out of nowhere because out of the stunning 28 planets in U7, there are still threats that are unmonitored Perhaps that's what we're getting, who knows But I can't help but feel this whole premise is not necessary, it feels gimmicky. I too wanted the fights to feel more martial arty and grounded, but I didn't want the series to regress to do it. That's also what people disliked about Goku in GT. Not to mention Goten and Trunks being sidelined again, it's like Toriyama doesn't know what to do with these characters anymore. Same with Pan, who showed such promise in the last movie... We have Toriyama at the wheel, I'm supposed to be relieved, but all I can think is "Tori is going to DB Minus your DB GT"
Forgive the oversight! I completely forgot to mention the wonderful Mix who did the incredible compositing for these drawings, bringing them as close as possible to the real deal. Check him out! twitter.com/MixtheSkele
Please tell me what was the theme was in this section 18:41 I’ve been going crazy looking for it😭😭
The entirety of this video's discussion hinges upon the notion that the original "Dragon Ball" is unanimously enjoyed. The justification that Daima should be allowed to exist is because original Dragon Ball exists falls flat for most of the fandom as it's simply not beloved.
There's a reason why Kai was titled Dragon Ball Z Kai in the West to ensure there was no mistake that it was Z being given the animation clean-up and filler trimming. The undisputed truth is that majority of Dragon Ball fans do not enjoy pre-Z.
Classic Dragon Ball is not as a product to the fans at large is considered not required watching. It was essentially skipped over for the Kararot (only adding the last Tournament arc as DLC.) There's no Team Four Star "Classic Abridged".
The reason for so much disdain towards Daima is because fans as a whole do KNOW they want the story from the magna to continue. The masses want the conclusion of Super to finally bridge the time skip at the end of Z... and they know they want it before a rather old series creator potential could end up in Other World.
The time for playing with something new and fresh is something for after Z/Super's story is complete. Not something that could potentially result in that being delayed... or potentially being incomplete.
Question, is Daima going to have arcs and more story’s, past the 14 episodes that they will do, or is it just a 40th anniversary special?
OH MY GOD MY TIKTOK WAS USED IN THIS VIDEO!! I’ve never been so honored before in my life!! Even though he totally disagreed with my take, I’m still honored 😅 I LOVE your content Mark! I’d love to discuss my take more sometime
You cannot shot down the idea that Daima is GT ver.2. I'm a fan of GT even with it's flaws because I grew-up with kid Goku with the translations we got are not filtered like those that usually happens to animes being imported to the west. Add to that since I'm asian actually living in asia, the culture is not much difference so we can actually understand the general idea of what is going on. Hence, the ideas, jokes and other stuff we easily get, more so than my cousin and friends living in the US when we usually have talks and compare translations on the plots and words used in DB, DBZ and movies.
But, Daima is too similar in the general plot and aesthetic to GT. Sure, Goku is not the only one that got turned to a kid, but if we think about it, the main concept of Goku becoming a kid, goes in an adventure in space - is still GT in the heart of it. So no matter how much one argues, Daima is a version of GT, but in Akira Toriyama's concept, much like how he made Broly canon.
Daima is, no matter what argument one might say is a LOVE LETTER to GT, his original DB and probably to his peers (Previous Editors, collaborators etch.) by Toriyama in my personal opinion. It's easy to forget that although Toriyama produced good stories and characters, some of his greatest achievements is because of the help and at times, push of his peers. A good example of this is how Cell played out. If his editor didn't stand on his ground and made Toriyama upgrade Cell or just went to Tpriyama's idea of android 17 and 18 as the main antagonist of the Android Saga, then we might not have the things we loved like Gohan being SSJ2 or Perfect Cell or Mr. Satan just to name a few. Sure all of these are debatable, but, if you look at it, everything was a chain reaction, not solely because of Akira Toriyama's decision, but the push of other people. Heck, if Toei didn't make a push for GT or DBS, I think we wouldn't even have another resurgence of Dragon Ball.
To be honest, I really don't mind Daima being called as GT Ver.2. If the original GT was fully handled by Toriyama, and we all know that in the end of the day, GT was still being approved by Toriyama, since the GT team still needs to consult him, the backlash on GT will not be that great. But, the main reason people keep on lacking GT was because GT isn't canon. Now, here we have a kid version of Goku. Created by Toriyama. With a general plot too similar to GT. Yet, in the end people still doesn't like it.
Just goes to show that people, most specially those who turned to adults, that they just wanted to hate GT. And it's reflecting anything related or somewhat similar to GT - even if Toriyama himself said he liked GT. Yes, GT wasn't perfect, but it did gave us a lot as well. I'll not go into the rabbit hole in explaining things since I'm already writing a wall of text here, in which I don't know if this is even gonna be read.
But, in general, Daima, being branded as GT ver.2 isn't bad. As I mentioned, Broly was finally canonized by Toriyama, so why not try to simply canonized some of the things leading to GT. I can see that the possibility of Uub and some sort of SSJ4 be in the horizon. Who knows. Maybe Daima being what it is, might lead to the reason why at the end of Z, God powers or Ki is somewhat gone and the road to be open-up for a possible reboot of GT.
I can imagine for example, that the crisis behind this might be because of how Saiyans in general are able to reach Godhood - which can lead to the unbalance of the universe. Just imagine how many Saiyans there is on earth right now. Goku and Vegeta are pure Saiyans, Gohan, Goten, Trunks and Bulla are all half saiayans, and is considered that Half-Humans and Half-Saiyans are more powerful than full blood saiyans, then Pan a 1/4th saiyan, I believe. All of them has the possibility to enter the realm of Godhood. That is if we only talking about the Saiyans on Earth. By now we can deduced that there might be other living saiyans in universe 7 as we have Broly now and Tarble (I think the argument of him being canon or not is another thing, but just putting it here though). This is just my speculation, and it can be totally wrong but the way Saiayans and breeding with Humans are going, It might lead to a powerful race of people that can have the balance of universe 7 that might also result flowing through other universes as well. Heck, this might also have happened in the other 2 universes that was erased by Zeno before.
Anyway, sorry for the long rant and by no means I'm not saying anything disrespectful to you since I do think you do provide another insight in regards to Daima. If, for some reason I do sound condescending or anything, my sincere apologies, but I assure you I'm not doing so. Peace and nice content.
My only real criticism for Daima at this point is that it missed a great opportunity to put the new generation to the forefront of the story. It would have been great if everyone got aged down while Goten, Trunks, Marin, Bulla(?) and Pan all retained their original ages, giving them (or at least Goten and Trunks) a chance to mature a bit or just simply take charge with the support of the now younger adult cast. Goten and Trunks are severely lacking in any sort of prominent spotlight and Daima could have been a chance to rectify that.
Yeah, I pretty much have no issue with Daimua but this? This right here is my primary criticism and main desire. I have been invested in focusing on the future ever since I learned that Toriyama felt as though he had to bring back Goku for the Buu Saga. I’ve been wanting to see Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Pan actually get to be the protagonists in their own right without so much of that Goku baggage getting in the way. There’s so much potential for an interesting dynamic there and we’ve frankly spent far too much time on Goku and Vegeta. It’s why I haven’t even bothered to watch Super, I just feel like we’ve been wheel spinning with the same guys over and over.
Yeah it should've been them. I agree but hopefully this wilp be good.
Personally, I think Daima is implied to happen before super but after the buu saga. Possible Gohan and Videl’s wedding due to them not being shown in the trailer + no pan or bulla which if it happened after super would be pretty dark
Well too bad they're babies now 🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😭😭😭😭😭😭.
This is the main reason my brain is equating it to "GT 2" and part of why it just doesn't care to give this a shot.
What fans have been clamoring for, for literally decades, is for the series to MOVE FORWARD and allow the cast to continue to age and change out. Gohan becoming the main character was what most fans wanted, even if Toriyama didn't think the traditional formula for a DB arc couldn't work with Gohan (which is true, but should have been the clue to the idea that the formula had gotten stale & needs to change). Super Hero gave us hope that the series could finally move on from Goku & Vegeta to the next generation, but now we're getting the old cast returning as kids? This is *NOT* what anyone was asking for when we demanded the return of DBS...
The other part of the reason I don't care to give Daima a shot is because ... Well where the fuck are Moro & Granolah's anime arcs? Are they not getting one despite being some of the best DB content since Cell was defeated? I already had concerns when it was announced that Super Hero would be the manga arc following Granolah, but if it's never getting animated, then the anime is dead to me no matter what else they do.
"Are we really going to sit here and act like classic dragon ball doesnt exist?"
Yes mark. Most of the fandom does. Some of them dont even need to pretend!
I've been a fan of DBZ for 20 years and still haven't seen DB 😅
@@mjf773you really should get around to it it’s very goofy at first but by the 21st WT Tournament it gets good
*Western fandom isn’t aware that OG Dragonball exists.
we dont care about an optional prequel with poop jokes
@@doggerlanderbruh...you're just dumb OG dragon ball is LITERALLY the foundation of the entire series calling it an optional prequel is just stupid
I will say this, I kinda wish we got more diverse ages for the main cast. Goku, Krillin, Chichi and 18 being roughly the same apparent age is fine but I wished Bulma, Yamcha, and some of the others were a bit closer to their original ages in Dragonball, at least from a design standpoint. Plus I really wish Roshi was an adult man cause it makes me think of that one episode of Futurama with the Fountain of Youth.
"With my last breath, I curse YAMCHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"
i wouldve loved it if young roshi, in his prime, joined the main characters on their adventure. wouldve gone hard
Honestly, it'd be interesting to see Rhoshi as a non-elderly man; would be funny if he turned out to be a total stud in his youth. But, I've seen people say it's not trying to portray how they really looked as kids; not sure if that's true, but most of them do just look like mini versions of their current designs (as opposed to how, say, Goku or Krillen actually looked as kids).
😊😊😊😊😊
@@cincymuttin og db we got to see a little flashback of him and the crane school guy as teenagers
Actually I don’t care about that ages so much as the desgins everyone basically just looks like mini versions of themselves instead of looking like kids at least to me. I mean 18 literally looks like she shrunk . Piccolo looks nothing like how he did as a kid , same with krillin I’m not saying they couldn’t use the current modern art style but they should’ve did so with the old desgins of these character when they were younger or at least tweaked it more . They literally just look like they all shrunk .
You can say that Daimai isn't GT 2.0, but it has the same fundamental flaw that GT had; it's trying to recapture the spirit of OG Dragon Ball by transforming Goku (and friends) into children. But here's the problem with that - Goku is not a child anymore, he's a 50-something y/o man. He married his sweet heart, raised a family, been all over the Earth, been to space, been to the after life, been to the realm of the Gods. You can't recapture the spirit of a bright-eyed boy adventuring through the world and marveling at how large and wondrous it is anymore, because Goku has literally done it all.
Spot on
On the dot. If only there was a younger Goku look alike that didn't have all of that experience readily available in the cast
Gottem
What are you talking about? The fundamental flaw of GT was the shitty writing. You can make any premise interesting. “The Shining” is set almost exclusively in a single hotel, but Kubrick made it interesting to see the main character go insane. You know almost nothing about this show (and neither do I). Also Toriyama didn’t head the story beats in GT, while he will be heavily involved in this. You haters should stop talking out your ass as if you even have the ability to critique story structure, and wait for it to come out before you pretend to hate it.
Well technically it could have worked with GT since we haven't seen much of the far reaches of space in Z
Toyria doesnt understand fans want fights and shit
-sees dragon ball heros being so much fights but 75% of the fans ignore it exist as it been running for years at this point-
They meant like broly movie from super kind but ok
@@law2488Heroes is enjoyable too though. It's wacky and just a bunch of fighting
I just want the Moro saga with the shintani style
bits of shintani. I liked the animation in the vegeta vs broly fight but in the quiet parts not so much
We all do 😔
same
@@azimuddin1890yeah I saw the video
Kubota style better
You can't help but be disappointed when Super's best arc(Moro) might never be animated and if they do by then Nozawa will be dead(87 years old now).
Me personally I preferred battle of Gods, it showed that Goku could lose. The Moro arc was better than Battle of Gods all the way up until the ending, where they butchered the resolution with Goku simply being given the answers by Whis - which weren’t even that profound and almost a rehash of what was said in Resurrection F (worst arc in the history of the dragon ball franchise in my opinion, and it’s undebatable for me) and he suddenly found the means necessary to defeat Moro. Felt a bit like the plot kicked in.
Moro arc is my second favourite arc of Super though.
Moro is a joke and i pray it never gets animated and we get smething else
Saddly they wont stop printing dragon ball money. Even after the whole staff is dead they will run this franchise to shtt quality death as long as there will be retrds with no standards eating anything "dragon ball" thats being put out
@@nivnavion id argue Granolah is the worst, its basically Baby from GT but without any direction
@@dannysummers4591 At least Granolah arc had some logical consistency aside from a couple retcons.
Roshi being as powerful he was, made no sense.
Gohan being as weak as he was, made no sense.
SSJB existing so early and shafting SSJG by appearing in the subsequent arc to it is ridiculous and devalues both forms, and the form is a lazy recolour.
And Goku just making mistakes in RoF that he simply would not make in Z.
Also the ending… Whis just time travelling back, almost as bad as Goku black arc ending.
My personal issues for this upcoming series stems from my own indifference of the "aging down" while maintaining the adult's memories trope in both Western and Eastern media and by extension, isekais tend to dive into this quite a bit. While this does seem like it'll go beyond the scope of constant gags about it, the concept was something I seldomly enjoyed.
That being said, I'm still open to watching the series as it's Dragon Ball to give it a fair chance on whether I'd like it or not.
Agreed through and through. The animation is really really good in the Goku vs Vegeta fight in the Daima clip, but I’m just not excited for the kid thing.
Is this aimed at kids? Yeah I imagine so…But I was like, 6 watching Z, and I knew lots of other kids watching Z, all throughout my life! The overwhelming violence and dark themes worked really well then-so I do not understand why they have strayed so far from that, when it really, REALLY worked, even for kids. And the only actual child in the show at that time was Gohan, so it’s not even like kids were “represented” all the time unless it was through Gohan. I just don’t understand.
Aging the characters down to me is just symbolic of the fact that the series will do anything for nostalgia bait. We got ssj2 nostalgia bait and Cell nostalgia last movie and let's not mention Frieza. I'm just so tired of seeing the series reuse things over and over. And, people didn't like aging Goku down in GT and they did that shit AGAIN.
@@QuantumMecha They haven't strayed from that, or aleast we don't know if they have. The only thing we have is a minute long teaser that tells pretty much nothing.
@@tristysstuff6664 But people absolutely loved DBS Broly that brought Broly back, and the Android saga that brought the androids back, and the 3 tournament arcs in og DB that are all tournaments with the same premise. Anything can work if they do it right
What is isekais ?
5:39 I get your point, but it’s fallacious in this context.
The creators of the dragon ball super manga have been very creative within the arcs that series, and we want to see it continued in animated form.
We’re not enslaving the creative team at toei by asking them to continue the mainline series.
Imagine a world where the Harry Potter book series is going strong with book 6. We’ve received movie adaptations of the first 3 books, but WB and JK Rowling refuse to release a goblet of fire movie because they want to focus on their spinoff series - fantastic beasts and where to find them.
HP fans would be understandably frustrated
A wonderful analogy, I agree completely.
My only issue with Daima is that they could've taken the series in this new direction while keeping the characters as adults.
Then I think you missed a couple of Mark's very good points. Goku, Vegeta, and a couple other characters can't truly go on fun new adventures as adults because of the current power scales, there's no room for unique stakes or grounded choreography with martial arts at it's root, ya know, to really harken back to the golden days of the original DB story like Toriyama wants.
@@Anim0sityyThen simply have the villains of the series take away their power and transformations, instead of their age. Problem solved. There's literally no reason why the characters are turned into kids here other than nostalgia baiting.
@@MrKilljaythey did take the power away with the age thing its a much better explanation than just their powers are gone but not all and they still seem the exact same, this way we can easily tell theres a difference
@@uhuh.2232 Just having their powers be gone doesn't make any less sense than them being kids again for no reason. Just come up with some BS explanation. The Dragon Balls, magic, whatever. Literally the same plot of the series could take place with the characters as adults. I'll repeat. Nothing about this series requires the characters to be children again. It's just nostalgia bait. Just like Resurrection F, the Broly movie, and Cell Max vs Gohan.
@@Anim0sityyI disagree, there's nothing that states that power levels should directly affect the adventures characters can have, and we don't even know if Goku is any weaker despite becoming a child again.
Dragon ball Daima appears to encapsulate one of my biggest problems with modern Dragon Ball: A refusal to move on. Here we are regressing once more instead of creating stories past the end of Z. Sure, Daima might work in its own self-contained way, but I am sick of characters staying the same.
As someone who would like to see Super return following the manga arcs, I'm hoping Daima is a good time. It has potential to be really dynamic with the fights.
Just a small counterpoint: writer's have been living by the phrase "give the audience the thing they didn't know they wanted" for decades now, like it's the most profound bit of writing advice that's ever existed. And I think a lot of pop entertainment writers have, kind of unintentionally, interpreted that bit of advice pretty simplistically and dogmatically, that it's led to a general homoginizing trend in the approach to writing in popular fiction that essentially boils down to a Vince Russo esque "swerve for the sake of a swerve" style of writing.
It's risky trying to come up with something the audience didn't know they wanted (and the results of whiffing on those attempts can really turn off an audience), and you're not always going to bat a thousand when you do that.
Where it gets really detrimental is when you're *always* trying to do the unexpected and taking risks to give the audience something they didn't know they wanted because you're high on your own hype and always trying to be the smartest guy in the room, and those kinds of writers end up finding 10 things they didn't know the audience would never, *ever* want for everything they did that was something the audience didn't know they wanted.
It's why I hate that phrase - so many creators just accept it as this universal truth they always need to be striving for and employing it dogmatically. I felt like every month in the 2000s some flash in the pan comics writer the audience ultimately turned on down the road was quoting it in a Wizard magazine puff piece interview where the interviewer was basically blowing the writer telling them how clever and awesome they were.
For the most part, you should just be focusing on giving them the thing YOU are confident the audience wants, and sometimes it's going to be something they wouldn't expect they'd like, and other times it's going to be the obvious thing that you and the readers know is cool. If you don't, you're not gonna last very long because you only get to waste so many opportunities giving the audience the thing they didn't know they never wanted because they never thought anybody would be dumb enough to try to force such a bad idea to work until you came along and tried to give it to them like a hack-who-doesn't-know-they're-a-hack trying to impress their peers with how clever they think they are with a stupid swerve.
This is a really good point, but I just find it kind of funny how you said 'Quick Counterpoint' and then wrote part of an essay. (Not saying your points are invalid, just saying it's funny)
Yes. A thousand times, yes. It's the pinnacle of arrogance to tell customers and prospective customers "you don't know what you want, but I do."
thats exactly what I thought lmao
good thing this doesnt apply to Daima's case. Over the years I've seen so so many fans and people in general ask for the classic "Dragon Ball feeling" back, with more grounded combat, powers that actually felt like magic, a grandious feeling of adventure with both comedy and tension, etc. It totally feels like Daima is aiming in that direction. And if writers listen to that, theres no way a "give them what they didnt know they wanted" case can happen, here specifically.
@Ango825 I wasn't so much saying it applied here, it's just something I hear creators and critics alike say it, and when Mark mentioned it in his video, I thought it was a good chanc3 to get off a rant I've been sitting on for years lol
Anyone who thinks that people only like Dragonball because of the fights and transformations should watch Dragonball Heroes, because Dragonball Heroes is only action and transformations and nothing else. It isn’t very good because Gohan’s super saiyan 2 transformation isn’t good just because it’s a new flashy power up, it’s good because it was something that was building up throughout the entire series.
I know this won't happen, but I wish Stephanie Nadolny would reprise her role as Kid Goku in Daima.
Edit: Oh snap! Shenron granted my wish!
That's what I've been saying for a while now. Colleen is good, but Stephanie is Goku.
Stephanie is what most of us grew up with as Goku and has that great energy. Colleen did great as Kai's Gohan (which I didn't know I needed). But after hearing Colleen's Goku in DBZ's Kakorot DLC:, I do miss Steph's Goku, but there's a chance she's not available.
@differentperson6790 Colleen is pretty good. Her Kid Gohan voice grew on me during this past decade. However, I'm still not used to her being as the voice of Kid Goku. I think it'd be a great idea if Stephanie voiced Kid Goku while Colleen voiced Kid Gohan in Daima. A bit of a nice throwback for old Dragon Ball fans.
@@MikeAruba69 If it's really a celebration of 40 years of the anime, it would be nice. The Funi staff have hired previous VA back for Super as fun callbacks to their earlier work, so I think it's possible. Biggest example I can think of is Brian Drummand as Copy Vegeta from Super, as he's represents the most evil of Vegeta (it's what I think of when I think of the Saiyan Saga).
@@briansilva3344 I never actually thought about the fact that BD again plays an EVIL Vegeta in Copy Vegeta, once again obsessed with power but not training to get it.
To me, Daima's mass age down is one of the series' best excuses to actually let the side characters participate since Z. Because even if the Saiyans are just automatically better than everyone else, presumably everyone will be weaker than the villains in this state. So, hopefully, teamwork and strategy will be the main factors in overcoming the odds.
Also, I think it would be cool if their altered biology actually left the Saiyans unable to use their Super/God forms for a little while. Full-on back to basics stuff.
Ew nah if I don't get blue kid Goku then this show is trash
WHAT ABOUT TRUNKS AND GOTEN??? The characters who have amounted to n o t h i n g this entire franchise! They're gone because of this decision, it's a horrible decision even in that light
@@ihavenonamestilldonthaveon8970 I would have prefered keeping the boys older and seeing how they handled the situation, but I do like the legacy characters more, so I can't really say that it bothers me too much.
I'm looking forward to Daima, but they could have solved it differently. For example, the villain (whoever that is) could have wished "I wish the Z-Fighters were all weaker than me!"
read into the dragonball fighter Z lore. and you will see that this is not "the best excuse"
Tbh I’m just really happy to see Toriyama this hands on
Same, as soon as I learned that he's very involved and motivated by Daima, it was enough for me to watch it when it does come out.
Will it be better because of it?
@@pn2294 Obviously. It's also obvious you're not familiar with his work at all.
Toriyama is not to be over rated, if it wasn’t for his editors we wouldn’t have Cell, plus he’s the primary responsible for the Buu saga (the worst DBZ arc). Idk if you have read his other works, but they are very humor directed.
@@twentyfivemelody Yes, you know better than toriyama how to make a good Dragon Ball story.... And Buu arc is the worst arc bc fans couldn't handle Goku being dead so he had to discard his plans of turning Gohan into the main character.
As someone who thinks classic Dragon Ball is the best part of the series, I am really excited for Daima!
The thing that worries me the most about this is that they're effectively "starting over", but are they keeping all the same voice actors? At this point, Goku's Japanese VA is 87!
Hopefully this is a short series that is 26 episodes at most. Otherwise, they're going to have to resort to necromancy to keep these characters voiced going forward.
They're working with AI to keep the og voices still remaining.
@@yosoynoh 😟
Me personally, I just feel deflated by the prospect of Daima doing an entirely new story that'll probably be far removed from the other stuff that Super set up that's been dangling for years now with no significant payoff. To this day since the T.O.P ended, there hasn't been a single character or story aside from maybe the games that's seriously explored the other universes and their untapped possibilities. But who knows, maybe leaving those threads to dangle is for the better, it just kinda sucks to not see any follow-through before switching gears
I’m still waiting on Vegeta to visit planet sadala
@@tiablue9106yeah that's not gonna happen dude
Yeah that's where I'm at too. Kinda feels like they want to avoid that as much as possible.
As a fan of OG dragon ball, I am both excited and nervous for this change. I am hoping it leads to the same fun adventurous and epic storytelling that series had. I'm not expecting the tournament arcs from then, but I would love for something the gives the same feel as King piccolo, or hell even the lead up through the red ribbon army. The animation alone gives me faith that this will be at the very least entertaining. Will it be good? We'll have to see.
I’m not it trash
Same. It looks like it'll be some good, lighthearted fun while we're waiting for Super to continue. If it's good, even better. If it's mid, at least we have something to watch while we wait.
So how did you feel about kid Goku in GT?
Red Ribbon type of atmosphere would be perfect.
@@KINGDREX24How? It's not even out yet.
The thing is, days before the announcement, I was discussing in a group chat how turning Goku into a kid was one of the worst decisions GT made, so it felt like they heard and said “oh, you didn’t like that?.. HERE! Everyone’s a kid now!”
Quite literally exactly that.
Exactly this a rehash of GT and the OG Dragon Ball. Another nostalgia bait Mark here doesn't realize that most people like Z and Super and want more of that. We wanted a continuation of Super but instead we got this.
My biggest concern is actually that I'm struggling to see the logical reasoning behind babyfying everyone in the first place if they all keep their memories and powers, and how they're going to find logic in keeping Pan, Goten, Trunks, and even Gohan around when their parents were aged back to a point before they ever had children. If everyone who can fight back has been aged back to allow someone to take over the world by making them weaker and unaware, à la Experiment 151 from Lilo and Stitch, then leaving the main cast with their powers and wits doesn't really make sense. If it was a set age reversal for the main cast overall, then not only should certain characters cease to exist, but other characters who have lived for far longer (Roshi) or whose age has little effect on their physical appearance (Piccolo) shouldn't become the same as others and should stay relatively older or at least bigger.
The main issue right now for me though, is that this was clearly something done specifically to the main cast, as the teaser trailer shows human adults being confused in the background at 2:20. So why, if everyone else only got turned into children with all their adult knowledge, would the younger characters get turned into mindless babies..? My best guess is to create some character conflicts and give a reason for certain characters to have to stay behind and look after them, which in most circumstances is considered lazy writing.
Wait, they are gonna have there powers? Damn
Yeah the child goku thing in GT felt supremely pointless to me, especially when for some reason, SSJ4 turns you into an adult? It felt like an attempt to recapture dragon ball's magic, but dragon ball's magic wasn't from Goku being tiny, but from him also having *the mind of a child*. Similarly here, I am not sure what the point of it is supposed to be from a storytelling perspective. But I'm not a doomer about it, we'll see, maybe they come up with something good.
@@Junebug89 SSJ4 turned Goku into an adult because he needed an adult body to contain all the power he got. Not sure how that was hard to understand, I think I understood it pretty well.
I don't think it was just to recapture the magic of Ball, specifically Goku being turned into a kid, but also to give Goku a limit to what he can do. He couldn't turn into anything past Super Saiyan due to lack of stamina in a child's body and couldn't use Instant Transmission (don't ask me how that makes sense, but it did make tensions feel pretty high). It was neat seeing Goku fight without just having to transform and throw a Kamehameha to kill an enemy, he had to use his Martial Arts prowess (which he had become a master of). Of course, when he got his tail back he was able to go into Super Saiyan 3, but he rarely did that unless he needed to.
I can't imagine they'd do the same for Daima. GT just had a different kind of magic to it, even if it does have its flaws. This just feels pandering.
@@biohazardbin Super Saiyan Four Goku doesn't turn Goku into an adult, Super Saiyan Four turns the giant ape smaller and more humanoid. Case in point Vegeta is already an adult but super saiyan four makes him taller. It is a combat transformation independent of physical maturity.
My problem is not a GT2.0 complaint. I never thought it was. My problem is it's Dragonball: Babies. I get wanting new stuff, but "thing but babies" isn't a new idea.
This exactly.
The main problem with Daima: Its a series and not a special.
If it was simply a 30-60 minute special for DB's 40th anniversary, a little filler episode throwback to OG DB before its all wished back, people would reach much more positively to it. But for a new DB series, people were expecting adaptations of the Moro and Granolah arcs, something they've been waiting on forever and with this series schedule, could've been amazing adapted. Its just disappointing to know that Toei could be producing those arcs that actually develop the story but instead focus an entire series on what should be a filler concept.
It's not Daimas problem its the Fans problem. They are extremely greedy always demanding what they want and only what they want. Anything new will be disgusting to them cuz they just want Moro.
Now i even Hope Daima becomes a main stage in Dragon ball story line cuz i feel like Fans don't deserve so much on what they demand. Toriyama, Toei they are doing something they seem to have clear vision for and i have high hopes.
Also watch the dam video before making a bold statement like gyat dayum
@@Rayquaza-Really It really is tho. Sure you can't always give fans what they want, its not like fans are the all knowing people of the series like so many think they are, but throw them a bone sometimes. Its not greedy to want an adaptation of something you've been waiting for years, and don't forget Moro was new but people still liked it.
They're not "greedy" for wanting something more than just a filler series, and in fact desiring Daima to be the main storyline just to spite the fans is very hypocritical and arguably worse. Also, Daima is not a concept that can/should be stretched out into an entire series, its arguably more of a sign of a lack of clear vision since now there's so many storylines going on.
Also the video changes nothing about my statement.
This is what I've been saying the whole time, I want the real story to continue.
@@Rayquaza-ReallyYou think the people working on it werent fans too? Most of the people working on Dragon ball today are fans of the serie and their ideas made some tragic results. Heck, I bet some of them had better ideas from the author or executives (who are fans too) but was outnumbered.
I'll keep my opinions about Daima saved for when the show actually comes out but its funny to me that Everytime I see Kid Goku in Daima I just think of how Goku used to be the lovable pudgy lil kid in original DragonBall vs his Chibi Look now lol I know its Toriyama's Modern style but it still makes me chuckle cause Honestly even going back to DragonBall Super Broly when we saw Kid Vegeta and Kid Raditz in that, they looked more like they were Chibi characters than actual kid versions. It reminds me of how Pikachu used to be as well when you compare him in the early 90s episodes vs how he looks today in them heck even Pre timeskip Chopper vs Post Time Chopper as well haha
Ayyy, Jaxblade is here too.
it’s like when they redrew stills from OG Dragonball in the beginning of Battle of Gods and Krillin wasn’t a chubby boy, but a scrawny adult. 😂
To me children/kids having stocky or stubby bodies is important. Their proportions make me feel like I AM looking at kids. But these stick-like bodies look damn offputting to me. Them being stocky also gives more leeway to imply they have muscle under what may seem fat.
@@ItchRevenge92 Honestly, this is the biggest issue I have right now.
@@s3studios597 I can live with the designs as long as they don't draw the kids with abs. I hated that on Gotenks and I'll hate that for the rest of the charachters if they do it. There's no reason to give the kid designs that.
My issue is it feels like an unnecessary regression instead of further progression
The creators of DB painted themselves into a corner. Where are the characters suppose to go? Who should they fight? It's hard to imagine more powerful beings in that universe.
New Antag is a magical being that can only be damaged by the person with a matching power level. Suddenly, everyone from Goku/Vegeta to Yamcha could have a role to play. Came up with that in less than 2 minutes.@@BAJF93
@@BAJF93they did, but could be fixed, you know how? USE THE FUCKING KIDS! Or just introduce something to scale down the Saiyans. Explore the remaining universes, Namekians, why there are Tuffles and Yardrats outside the universe 6/7. Its not like there isnt anything left in lore to explore. Moro showed that magic could put the cast to shame.
Theres a manga they could somewhat fellow with lol. @BAJF93
exactly its over extended @@BAJF93
Great video, Mark but I think you're way off base about what makes most Dragon Ball fans love the series. Just like you, I am one of the fans that appreciates the world and the characters and the stories surrounding the awesome, bombastic fights. But most DB fans do not fall into that camp. We are a minority in this fandom. There is a popular meme in the fandom that says "don't fuck with DB fans. We haven't even watched our own show." Most fans of Dragon Ball are really fans of Z and Super, and they don't even know that Piccolo used to be evil, for example, or that there was a whole other half of the series that took place before the Saiyan Saga. I am also a member of many online communities where the series is discussed, and I am sure that you know how often people will misremember or make up or otherwise be incorrect about certain facts and details concerning the story's plot. It's part of the same reason why discussions about power scaling are more prevalent on the internet than discussions about story and narrative. Most people only really care about the flashy eye-catching action. I think you're giving the fan base way too much credit in assuming that most of us are like you.
Toriyama and Toyotaro constantly teasing Goten and Trunks being older and giving Gotenks another shot only to yank it away from us reminds me of the Simpsons episodes where Maggie is grown up in future story episodes but still doesnt talk because of strange circumstances, which makes me think they're doing it deliberatly just to have fun with the whole concept. The current arc in the manga giving them some of the spotlight has me excited for their future past the arc
The characters won't remain as children forever. They'll grow back to normal size eventually.
I'm excited for it. Sure I'm hesitant, but with Toryama involved so heavily and now knowing they've already produced the episodes makes me more invested.
Same Toryama that is forgetful and cannot stay consistent with feats...Sure
@@turnermarius4471 And is... not that good of a writer. At all.
@@AzraelSoulHunter ESPECIALLY unsupervised.
Yeah, I'm a fan of GT and think it's cool Toriyama is going to give the basic concept a redo. It shows that he supported the de-aging idea all along; now he has the chance to do it right.
@@Mr.Pacariokinda like what he did with Broly.
As a 20+ year long Dragon Ball fan. Original Dragon Ball when Goku’s a kid is my favorite in comparison to Z. Primarily because it was martial arts, no type of screaming or surprise transformation was available to save you in a fight that suddenly boosts your speed, durability, power, and reflexes. It was how you outwit, out do, and utilize the skills you’ve refined and techniques you’ve gathered throughout your martial arts journey. Which is why Krillin was such a beast and even though he was completely no match for Goku in their first tournament together, Krillin was crafty enough to hang in with Goku for as long as he did.
Z was amazing but holy hell the amount of true choreography or any type of skill flew right out the window. Same with Super, I felt that SSJG was fine as is and didn’t need to make SSJB and then Goku Black Rose? Then Trunks got a weird form, Vegeta made his own version of SSJB refined, then Ui Omen and Mastered Ui, then we get Goku Beast and Ultra Ego?? It’s just too much and strayed so far away from what DB at its soul was about and why it was so good. I felt the transformations held it back and now hold little to no weight. SSJ was special, SSJ2 was an insane spectacle that was built up since Gohan was introduced first got angry, then suddenly SSJ3 is a thing? I wish they’d stop with the transformations. I’d rather see Goku refine the hell out of either UI or SSJG, I’d rather see Gohan refine the hell Mystic, I’m glad Piccolo got a new form cause he and Tien are the only two who never stopped training that aren’t Goku and Vegeta.. I dunno man I’m just a fan
This is juat flat out wrong, roshi in og dragon ball said that power us what ultimately decides a fight, martial arts was the fight choreography, and og dragon ball had just as many punch punch puncj exhanges with reused animation, the goku vs krillen fight was an exception and not the standard.
I don't quite get your point about it not being "GT 2".
We are not saying "omg it's literally the continuation of Dragonball Gt" but rather "holy hell didn't they learn their lesson with GT?"
The criticism of the fanbase, or what I think it is, is that having goku and the cast turning children means the show will go in a certain direction, most likely less epic, grandiose, there's going to be less focus on the different universes and their protagonists and all that in favor for a more kid-friendly, cute and innocent show.
Granted this doesn't necessarily mean that DAIMA is going to be a bad show or that it shouldn't exist, rather than the its focus will be in contrast with what the fanbase has been looking forward with the series since... Z, honestly.
I'm glad we're having something different instead of upping the scale everytime a new enemy shows up, but I'm just not excited by the stories that we can tell by having the cast be... babies
GT's problem was that it was bad, let's get that out of the way. It wasn't that Goku was a kid, or that he was going on a space adventure, or the fact that Pan and Trunks were there, it was because it was bad (and without Toriyama). How many content creators and TH-cam comments have to say "good ideas, poorly executed" when referring to GT before that's understood. Not to mention that calling it a copy of GT just because Goku is a kid again is just superficial as hell. Mark also addressed the idea that young characters = safer, kiddie show: Original Dragon Ball exists, dude.
All this to say what was repeated in the video - it's not out yet.
@@chubomikz7104a trailer is supposed to bring hype to the thing who isn’t out yet.
yes but are people even saying that one of the good ideas of GT is bringing back kid goku? I don't think it is. Usually the good ideas of GT are SSJ4, the corrupted dragonball and a couple of storyline.
Saying "people dislike it because it's bad" doesn't help any argument if you don't aknowledge WHY it is bad.
Also let's be real here: dbz is darker than OG dragonball@@chubomikz7104
Love how fans like this call super trash nostalgia bait. But they turn Goku into a kid and give him back that pole and they drop straight to their knees.
"Dont be caught asking for faster horses when the possibility of something new is right around the corner" Currently the something new just looks like Teen Titans GO. If something drastic happens it could push away so many newer fans of series. Hopefully it's good but it should be easy to tell why people are worried.
I mean it's not GT2 in a literal sense, but it does inevitably invoke GT feels because it has similarities as compared to canon sequel series stories like Super or the new-era movies.
Canon argument, opinion discarded.
Too much similarities. You can't really just look at both and not say "Daima definitely did not take a handful of ideas from GT"
Given the trailers hints to Bibidi with the Buu arc being replayed on the villains screen I believe that the foe of this series is the Universe 6 counterpart to Bibidi that has its own Buu.
That’d be pretty sick ngl
While im hearing some of your defenses there are some core issues with Daima:
A) A good LOOKING anime =/= a good story. OG DB far in apart looks the worst in terms of quality compared to what would come later, but is still widely regarded some of if not the best work in the series. DB was good cause of its characters and story, and of some of the crude humor intermixed. Super Hero left a lot of people disappointed despite how good looking it is, yet most people would say Battle of Gods (which has that shiny art style that is so hated) is one of the best as examples
B) Just cause Goku is a kid equally doesn't mean this show is gonna be GT anymore than it is gonna be the OG DB. The main issue with Super WASNT an inconsistent quality of art style and animation (While definetly an issue), but the characterization of a Goku and the rest of the gang that came after Z as well as some of the villains and arcs being laughably generic.
C) Making everyone kids completely reverts their progression. This is especially true for Goten and Trunks, who are basically babies now, but its bigger than that.
Part of what made DB great was watching Goku and the gang grow up and eventually build a family, hell thats what some of the best Shonens follow in a nutshell (Naruto and Bleach at least). Them being kids is a reset button on progression which is probably the worst way to continue content for your franchise.
If you wanted to recapture the magic of DB, why not just remaster the quality of the original show to celebrate its anniversary? rather than just re-tread on its already done ideas. Most people ive seen talk about the last two movies really enjoyed the original DB scenes remade for the call backs in their films, so why not just remaster the Goat rather than Emulate it?
D) Daima basically highlights the main issue with Modern DB, it started with ROF and came back with DBS Broly and then Super Hero: Its obsession with rehashing old ideas. Not concepts, not designs (Sometimes at least) but entire arcs and characters.
DBS SH was probably the most blatant example as the villain, Beast transformation, the overal plot and even some of the shots from the fight itself is a blatant rehash of the Android and Cell Sagas. I wouldnt be surprised if in 2-3 years we get a movie about Buu being a villain again. What Super Hero is to Cell Saga is what Daima is to OG DB.
E) When people say they want a continuation of DBS, it isnt just about the DBS Manga. YES most people want to see the Manga events adapted into the anime the same way the Manga adapted the Anime when it came out. However, it comes from a genuine desire to see the series continue one way or another.
Daima is extremely disappointing because as far as im aware; it takes place *before* Super. So any hopes of it maybe being a filler arc prior to the real DBS series or somehow being a tie in are basically thrown out right off the rip. You also have to take into account that Toriyama has been blue balling his fanbase with new movies every few years. So naturally we have been expecting the anime to EVENTUALLY return especially with the manga adapting the Movie events into its cannon.
Toriyama could've continued DBS in his own unique way without adapting any of the manga if he so chose, but with Daima he chose to do neither valid option and instead do what is basically a soft reboot.
Which much like the common criticism, isn't what DB fans have ever asked for, and as such he and his fans cannot blame the rest of the community for not accepting or welcoming Daima.
F) Because this series comes before Super, and is supposedly non cannon to Super, none of what happens in it really matters. It reeks of filler, and all things like it. As a fan, you cant be expected to accept Daima and its ideas off the back of the last 5 years of building up hype towards a canonical continuation of the anime only to be given what is essentially a slap in the face.
I really don't know why Toriyama would think DB fans would've accepted this without controversy knowing damn well we wanted DBS to continue and he's been sorta continuing it every few years. I mean the initial reaction to this is exactly what id expect given the fact most people dont like GT and the main plot that starts GT is "Someone made a wish to turn Goku into a kid" and granted theres more to GT but that doesn't change how similar it is conceptually.
G) Initial impressions are everything. A lot of people will avoid watching this just like Heros and GT just because of the initial impression. On the opposite side, a lot of people are gonna watch this just because its DB and it "looks pretty" because as DB fans we have been starved of animated content. 2 individual movies over the course of 5 years cant make up for what having a series week by week will ever do. If the anime had actually ended when it did, Daima would be more acceptable. But since Toriyama has gone out of his way to continue the story through movies, we wont be happy till we get a proper ending.
-
You cant have Legacy of Goku without GT being completed, and you cant have Battle of Gods without Z being complete either.
So making an entirely different show that doesnt continue the story left hanging but with the same characters of said story, is a dick move. Especially since that time, effort, and money could be better spent on something more concrete that is more likely to succeed, its better both for fans and for business' to just continue Super rather than invest in something you cant be sure people are gonna like, especially given the response to the show already.
H) Toriyama went through the trouble of bringing new core characters to the series; Revamp Broly, Cheelai, Gamma 1 and 2, and DR Hedo. They are gonna be reoccurring characters in the story just like Beerus and Whis were when they were introduced. However he has yet to actually capitalize on the interest he's built in them by not continuing DBS. So it begs the question; why introduce them at all? why not just treat them like the original Broly or other Z movie villains who are one offs that either die or have to leave the universe for one reason or another like in the case of Tapion?
Moreover what was the point of giving Gohan and Piccolo new transformations if he's not gonna capitalize on the interest in those Legacy characters? That's the other problem, we can assume he is 100% going to continue the series at SOME point, but Daima is gonna hinder and delay that one way or another.
At least if there was no show we would know that the hiatus time was spent on that show, but if DBS returns with "budget issues" the same way it had when it first launched, we will know exactly why. Even if it DOESNT have this issue, it would still beg the question of why delay it at all when we've already waited so long. Bleach had legit reasons as to why it couldn't return for 12 years, and why it was canceled in the first place. DB does not have such excuses and we have almost waited half of that time.
Daima is basically a conglomerate of the issues with Modern Dragon Ball, but also mixed with the issues of how Toriyama has treated his fanbase over the last 5 years. To reiterate what I said earlier, Daima would be acceptable when Super was actually finished, but not a moment sooner. Maybe it'll be good, great even, but at the cost of the story he left behind and it wont change the fact that none of it adds anything to previously established story we got in Super.
If Toriyama wanted this to go over well he should've shelved this idea for later on when he actually finished Super.
IF this series does surprisingly well, then what? make another Daima? further ignore DBS Anime return? or shelve the return of Daima for when you finish DBS? either way the order is nonsensical. Finishing Super would allow him to have the freedom to do whatever he wants with the franchise with less controversy, the same way GT has a fanbase when Z was finished despite it not being officially cannon, or DB AF when GT was finished and so on. Battle of Gods was the same way when it came out, it was free to make changes to the larger world of DB because Z had finished and GT was never cannon. Harry Potter did the same thing with the Fantastic Beast Trilogy. Daima could've been the GT or Fantastic Beasts for fans when they wanted more content when the series was well and truely over, rather than being an interruption.
Daima being where it is doesn't help itself either, as itll likely be overshadowed by the DBS prior and the DBS that comes later, much like how CoD Ghosts is forgotten but not Cod Black Ops 2 or 3. Itll likely have its fanbase, but it'll likely be a much smaller fanbase than if it were allowed room to breathe without having the expectation of DBS suffocating it
Also A) what is a good looking anime? what is a good story? Opionions and different tastes, besides some objective points, cannot be argued with. For example, I personaly hate the art-style and commedy driven One Piece, but that doesn't make it any less succesfull. And example 2, I really like the Tournament of Power, but the 'story' is weak AF.
To me, I'll leave Daima alone. I'll leave it for the newer generations, like I did with Pokémon. It's not for me, I'm to old for this shit.
Bruh I'm not reading all of that
@@thestupidfuncrisallstodios470 Then dont
You have me all the way with this. It hits ALL the points I have about these newer Dragon Ball series.
Although, do not say GT is not canon. Canon doesn't mean a damn thing in this series. It's not like they don't still profit off of it, they put GT in Heroes, Xenoverse, FighterZ, probably Sparking! Zero when it comes out. Let's not pretend GT wasn't the official continuation for YEARS until Super came out.
Well Toriyama waited to long and has unfortunately passed away. So now much hope for DBS part 2 isnt lookin good. May he rest in piece
I get what you're saying Mark, but I'm also skeptical about the chibi characters and I think with good reason. Whenever there is a "Chibi" anime of an established anime, that chibi anime is almost always a "gag-based" anime. Attack on Titan, One Piece, Naruto/Rock Lee all had these types of anime spin offs. And while this one DOES look like it's not going in that path, I think it's fair to say that "Chibi" in anime usually means a focus on silliness, gags, and usually for a younger audience so there is cause for concern.
But on a more down to earth level. The man opened up the multiverse and introduced nearly 70 new characters as well as 4 universes that are still shrouded in secrecy. I would have loved to see an arc with some of these new people.
My problem with the "wish everyone to be a kid" aesthetic isnt that it's "GT 2.0," its that its based on the same fundamental problem GT had - and, to a certain extent, that Super had.
Its pushing the story backward. Its trying to recapture the magic of a phase of the story that has already grown past that. You cant make Goku a kid again to go on OGDB-style Kid Goku adventures because goku ISN'T a kid anymore. He grew up. He went to namek. He died twice. Hes now rusen to the gods. He's NOT 12-year-old-who-never-saw-a-girl Goku anymore. and we shouldnt try to make him be that. It doesnt work when you age him down, and it doesnt work when Super makes him dumb as rocks when he wasn't in Z.
Id prefer the series to look forward, rather than back. If tou want kids going on whimsical magical adventures, use Pan and Uub. Dont regress chatacters who, frankly, deserve more respect for the lives and struggles theyve had.
You’re right, fights and new forms are not all dragon ball is, but be careful not to undersell them. If the fights weren’t good, dragon ball would not be anything like what it is today.
Yet Mark isnt trying to. Only one who is seemingly doing this is you.
@@Draconic_Incenerator did you really just try to hit me with a no u? Like… give me one example of how I’m doing that.
@@sRtAoIrNm I dont have to as thats what the video is for.
If you choose to not watch and learn thats not my problem.
@@Draconic_Incenerator lmao, you are literally making shit up
Not what he's saying and you know it.
18:28 I can't help but think the exact opposite of what TNM is saying here. The fact that they are recycling such a tired concept to monetise nostalgia for early DB seems to be a sign that the franchise is currently just as directionless as early GT was, and Toriyama being more involved than usual does not make me more optimistic, especially when the central concept is so unappealing (the man has had a lot of misses to go alongside his successes, after all).
Agreed.
Right, and GT feeling directionless is because Toriyama approved the concept, but then reverted back to the Z format after the ratings were plummeting.
7:34 This is my absolute favorite part of the video and really puts out there what I've been thinking whenever I've heard these sentiments. I think a big problem with DB is that there's a massive disconnect in the western fandom because there are fans who love the story, the characters, the quirky world and more. But for a good chunk of the general audience? It's not DB they like, it's DBZ. More specifically, it's the DBZ from their childhood, a series intentionally repackaged and reformatted to be a standalone action cartoon that tried to tap into the same bases that liked Mighty Morphin Power Rangers and shows like it. Now that's not an insult, I'm a dude with an Optimus Prime icon, I know what I love but we still see the effects of that to this day where frankly, it seems people treat Dragon Ball as if it needs to deliver constant hype when it's more than that.
And I say this liking Super and being one of the many people hoping to see Moro animated. There was disappointment I felt when Daima was announced and when I saw the Magic leaks. However, that quickly passed since this looks fun and fresh and unlike GT with Akira Toriyama's involvement? I don't feel it's gonna walk back progress just because people cry about it because that's something we forget about GT too. It's not just that it's a bad story but also when the direction wasn't vibing with people, instead of tweaking and improving it? Toei threw up their hands and just turned the show into diet DBZ where more often than not story did not matter and was just set-up, characters were just traits slapped onto action figures and all that mattered was delivering the next spectacle which in GT more often than not looked like complete shit.
Edgy fanboys do not understand art or respect Toriyama as an artist.
@@lwzeis
This. I'm tired of these people constantly wanting everything to be grimdark or just be torture porn.
These are the same people who think AI art democratizes art and is in anyway equivalent to the Digital vs Traditional art debate.
No respect or appreciation for any processes and just devoid of life.
@@lwzeishow are they edgy for wanting good atories
@@niggasmoker89 There's a difference between wanting good stories and what I'm describing. For instance, you could be someone who is not vibing with Daima's idea and that's understandable. But you have people who basically seem to think DB can only be one thing which is constant hype and fights, they want the version of DB that the old dub of Z presented them which this franchise has not been for years.
Yeah, I think Mr. Mark sometimes misunderstands the differences between the Japanese and Western fandom. The original Dragon Ball was hugely popular in Japan, but it remains niche here. Westerners really want more Z--and yes, more GT, to a degree. Everyone loves Super Saiyan 4.
9:46 I understand what Mark is saying however, I'd counter that with the fact that we already have kids in the show (goten, trunks, Bulla, pan, marron) that deserve some screen time and character growth. There's no good reason in my mind that goku and Co need to be turned into kids outside of nostalgia bait and monetary gain.
“Have you seen Dragon Ball?” - Mark Fitzpatrick
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
We still don't even know how canon Daima will be! This could be just a fun spin-off project for all we know. And even if it is canon, we have no idea where this will go! When have we ever been able to guess what Toriyama will do next? Even Toriyama doesn't always know what he's going to do next.
Mentions of canon are irrelevant. Dragon Ball is a multiverse, there is no canon but the original Japanese manga. Everything else is a timeline/alternate universe.
Doesnt your defense from criticism 4 only help to make the point of criticism 1 even stronger? Since GT was also made to capture the original DragonBall nostalgia.
I'm not Mark but here's the thing about GT, it aims to hearken back to the original Dragon Ball yes but its manner of doing so is only "Goku becomes kid and the set-up is an adventure with a group of characters.". Why GT falters is that it quickly abandons this and also does very little to begin with with this idea. For instance, Goku is not weakened. He can't use Instant Transmission and SS3 is more useless because the energy drain is more insane but Goku otherwise is just as skilled and capable as he was by the end of Z. Daima takes the OG DB homages a step further. As Toriyama's blurb and some clips of the trailer cover, Goku and the others do not have their crazy powers thanks to this. They still have Ki but judging from that scene of him floating off, their new bodies initially make them incapable of using it properly so they have to rely on hand-to-hand and in Goku's case, the Nyoibo. That's already doing a lot to bring the atmosphere of the original back.
I think my biggest problem with Daima right now is the character designs, I think the characters look more like chibi versions of themselves rather than kids.
Exactly, you hit the nail on the head.
Especially piccolo, was hoping that it would look more like he did in og dragon ball, akin to dende
Trev is absolutely incredible at drawing this style, I adore it.
you wouldve "adored" any outcome bruh 😂
@@home9dog2blue199 ??
bruh??
My biggest issue with Dragon Ball DAIMA isn't everything discussed in this video but is the fact DB Daima is a series instead of a movie, allot of time will be wasted on this special project when DBSuper continuation is just waiting to be done,.I seriously hope DB Daima has less than 25 episodes with twice as less run time, a side-story ain't worth getting into if the main story is left waiting
my main problem with it is that theyll try to make it seem like og dragon ball, but make it more rated E for everyone like super is. I don't think kid goku will impale people with his body in this series.
Even though I’m the kind of fan who’s way more into the DBZ, GT and Super Broly art style, I’m willing to give it a chance based on the animation alone.
However, the character designs are really throwing me off, they look less like actual kids and more like chibi versions of their adult designs. Can’t say I’m a big fan if modern Toriyama either…
We've been used to seeing Goku, Vegeta & co as adults, it's just off putting seeing them suddenly as toddlers espec considering the current age of most of the fanbase which boggles my mind how the ppl who made this decision glossed over that, it's in a way akin to the reboot of Ben 10 in terms of the fanbase's perception.
Imagine the long time fans of Pokemon or Conan being told that Ash or Conan are now gon turn into adults in an instant, it's just stupid.
Americans seem to forget they DID NOT like the original Dragon Ball.
It was so much of a flop that it didn't end up airing on USA, they directly skipped over to Z.
I guess that could explain why they're not interested in Daima.
I know this is a year old, but I don’t care. I watched GT in Japan in 1996. I loved it. I had to wait a week for each episode and if I missed one, tough shit. This was long before streaming services, social media or even mediocre internet speeds. I had to break out the old rabbit ears to get Japanese channels. I guess that’s why I appreciated it so much. It’s all I had.
I love how at one point Mark says, that fans don't know what they want and then in the other praises Daima for maybe doing something some of the fans wanted
Just like how the fans are ok with a rehash of Terminator yet not of GT.
So its obvious the "fans" dont know what they want.
i want dragon ball daima! i just didn't know i wanted it until i saw the trailer. and i don't think i'm doing the impossible! i don't know what i want from dragon ball because i was fine when i thought it was over back in the 2000's. everything else is a nice bonus and i'm glad the creators are following the beat of their own drum.
@@dandyprophet And that's great. It's just that Marks point that fans don't know what they want is bad. It makes the assumption that we're unable to come up with new stuff and only the creators can be so benevolent to bestow Us with something that isn't a copy of what was, while He also mentions fan creations that do exactly that, fresh ideas.
I hope Daima is good
After watching the first episode, it's totally just a reworked GT lmao.
Video aged like milk. Its GT 2.0 all over again. Instead of space Odyssee its a deamon realm Odyssee 😂
GT might be canon….daima takes place in age 775…one word
FUARRRRKKK
It is not GT, it is rewritten GT
No, it's not.
@@YaeGuuji Video aged like wine. It's not GT. Going to the demon realm is different.
I think the worst part about this will be that Funimation almost certainly will not bring back Stephanie Nadolny to voice Goku.
We’re going to be stuck with Colleen Clinkenbeard :/
I'm not trying to listen to Colleen Clinkenbeard. 🙅🙅🙅
Man...the notion that Daima will at the very least have more Toriyama involvement than literally any project since the original series makes me have the slightest bit of hope that they won't bastardize the characters. Thank you for giving me that tinge of hope Mark.
To be hones every dragon ball thing sinse gt hade the ads saying toriyama is doing everything on this show
Yeah, because look how Toriyama did Future Trunks and Tien in DBS. He definitely didn't destroy those characters.
Completely agree, everyone complaining is insane
@@rokutime2627 He didn't. Trunks is a better character in Super and Tien having his own dojo and having students is perfect for the character
@@thatguyfromA6915 Because he has always been involved on some level but this is the most he has been involved
Yeah the “people just want more forms” arguement is just dumb, the transformations and intense moments work BECAUSE of the emotional parts of the series, Goku going super saiyan wouldn’t have been as good if he wasn’t pushed to that point with krillins death
Except the forms have lost all meaning at this point.
The longest so far is goku(Super saiyan God Super Saiyan x20 Kaioken
If possible. Goku Super saiyan God Super Saiyan Perfected Ultra Instinct
What I want is a good story with well-choraeographed fights, fun moments, and an affection for the characters.
RIP Toriyama Sensei
"People just wanna see cool transformations" and yet, beast gohan was the worst part of dbs super hero despite being a "cool transformation".
Honestly, ssgss blue and ultra ego are terrible. But he obviously won't discuss that because he's got his own bias
Well, I didn't follow the developement of daima, hence didn't form an opinion on it. But woah, the chibi style really does bode poorly for me. Also, I thought it would be a retelling of some kind, like path to power. Aging down EVERYONE does indeed feel a tad...awkward
I hate what regressing Goku to a kid again SYMBOLIZES, not just the fact it's just GT. It feels like a lot of the arguments here are heavily cherrypicked and extremized by adding reductionist words to their core message. Regressing Goku to a kid again is not a good thing at all. Super has already regressed Goku's character, having him repeat mistakes or be outright stupid (ex: Goku FORGETTING the senzus and mafuba seal which lead to trunks' future being erased and in the manga not finishing off Moro) and Daima is continuing this regression by turning Goku into a kid not only mentally but physically too. These are characters we've seen grow through battles and Daima said fuck that make em kids again cuz marketing. You'd think something for the anniversary would be celebrating the experiences these characters have had bit they spit in the face of that abd do the opposite. Also, Goku was literally aged up to fit DB's more fighting oriented action, but I guess they forgot that. (Edit: For the record I'm not saying that kid = bad fights, I'm sayinf that these dudes are willing to regress a character just for the sake of nostalgia.) I know that the show will probably be good, but i fucking hate how the DB series so reliant on nostalgia bait now. Ppl don't see the glaring flaws jn this decision and will just go "muhh nostalgia." In Super we've had Frieza return like 3 times, Cell return, and Broly return. Now for TO GO EVEN FURTHER BEYOND with nostalgia bait lets turn these damn near 50 year old characters to children! The show WILL be good, but i also think we'll get more stupid super Goku and regression of other characters lmao
I’ve been thinking about why Toriyama/Toei/whoever would choose to do this when you could see from a mile away that everyone would compare it to GT based on these surface level similarities. That just strikes me as a terrible marketing/hype-building strategy. BUT, then again, what if that was totally intentional. What if the whole plan was to use the kid aspect of the series to get vital arguments going online, fueling the feeling that we all HAVE to see how this turns out. That may be a genius gamble if it was intended!
Too genius. More likely, Toriyama had a fun idea that he wanted to try after being more involved with the last two movies than he was during the super anime.
That not likely the case GT perform well as much as dragonball Z and the movies. The reason it failed because it had no merchendise. I doubt they cared about what western audience felt about gt. And in terms of other mediaslike games etc gt is doing pretty well
As far as criticism #4 is concerned… I don’t care to split hairs between kids and babies. People want adult characters to stay adult characters, and that’s understandable.
"Guys, it's too early to tell for sure what Daima is going to be! We don't know anything! Also, I know for sure it won't be a slice of life because I need my argument to make sense"
- Mark (2023)
Why would an entire dragon ball show be slice of life. There is no precedent for that. It’s idiotic conjecture to think it would be.
@@enzog1078 Okay, so nothing ever changes and nothing is never new and nothing is ever revolutionary. Things will always be the way they have always been and they will stay that way simply because that's the way they've always been.
@@enzog1078 Let's completely ignore the fact that the same creator has already made leaps in tone, themes, and overall presentation.
You're probably right though, we should ignore the fact that Akira Toriyama went from a gag mangaka, to an adventure-focused re-telling of journey to the west, to one of the greatest shonen battle manga ever... It's gotta be "idiotic conjecture" to say there's a chance he's interested in exploring the slice of life genre.
@@juangutierrez7277again, you’re assuming. There is no reason to believe this show will be slice of life. Nothing has been shown alluding to that. We know the show is dragon ball. That’s it. Is dragon ball a slice of life anime? No. It is not.
He is friends with Anime Ajay who is the one who leaked the show as Dragon Ball Magic and has insider information about the show. The two of them definitely know stuff about Daima that we don’t.
I still have some criticisms that would be nice to be shown if there is a follow up video
1. (What toriyama said daima is ganna be) Toriyama’s quote “be ready for a new cute adventure” has me worried. The original dragon ball was a fun adventure, but I never thought of it as a cute adventure. It had hard tension, and if toiryama is saying this, it makes me feel like there is no tension.
2.(the new designs) I still do not like the fact they are kids. The designs at the beginning of the trailer with adult GOKU and Vegeta looked so good and now it’s just a missed opportunity that we won’t be able to see probably until the last episode. I have been really wanting to see adult goku use his power poll again but that’s a personal reason. The real reason why I don’t like it is it does get rid of tension. it’s not fair to say this is like dragon ball because in dragon ball not everyone is a kid. The show still had tension because goku was a kid with a innocent design surrounded people who were evil with serious designs. Now that everyone is a kid, it just removes tension. I’m not ganna be able the take the steaks seriously if the entire group is getting beat with those character designs. They should have just had them stay adults, and if goku needed his powers to be taken away(which I don’t like), make it just that.
3. Having goku have all his powers taken away just feels like akira is trying to take the easy way out. If goku can’t transform he basically rested his growth to atleast the end of buu. If they really want to pull the plug on super, they should just do it already. Say super is non cannon, and give us a new story after battle of gods, because it really feels like that’s what akira wants to do.
4. In conclusion I really hope this isn’t just a cute adventure like toriyama said, and I hope I will be able to take the steaks seriously even with the designs. DAMMIT my adult goku with power poll adaptation nearly happened.
1. What you're referring to was Toriyama saying "different-from-usual battles that are cute and powerful". If that concerns you still, he also says "grand adventure with intense action" so it doesn't sound like it'll be bereft of tension.
2. Multiple characters being kids doesn't inherently remove tension. Also, Goku wasn't the only kid in original Dragon Ball, in fact many characters were, though different ages like Bulma, Krillin, Suno, Chi Chi, and Upa. Dragon Ball has had a number of child characters and it didn't remove or disallow for tension. Also, Mark already basically addressed the aesthetic choice multiple times so if you don't like it, that's fine, but it's on you if you can't take things seriously just because the characters are kids, it's not an objective flaw of the story.
3. Or Toriyama just wants to make something that's more like original Dragon Ball as a way of celebrating it and we don't have to remove Super or act like it doesn't exist just to do it.
4. I defer back to 1 regarding "cute adventure" and whether or not you're able to take the tension seriously is up to you. You get to decide how much the child aesthetic matters to you and how you view the story, it's not an involuntary response, so how you view Daima and whether or not you enjoy it is just your choice.
@@seandobbins2231 I still want my adult goku with power pole god dammit 😡
People really are traumatized by GT
Mark ima keep it real with you, in a year from now you're gonna be taking all this back.
Mark: "These cute chibis wont be used as cute chibis, have you SEEN dragon ball"
Mark, have you seen how popular the minions are? Have you forgotten this is toei animations were talking about? Has it occurred to you its no longer 1995?
Mark is a fanboy he makes it clear in the video that fans wanted diama and not a sequel to Super.
i mean it is comparable to GT in a way, GT and diama are mainly made to quell the thirst for DB, since super doesn't have enough content to run for a couple years straight atm and they don't want to push it out with a ton of filler. what is better about diama here is that they arn't selling it as a continuation of the series, and selling it as its own thing like heroes. which i can respect.
What are you talking about??? Yes, it would NOT be fair to call Dragon ball z terminator 2 just because of the androids, but it's totally fair to say this looks like dragon ball gt 2.0 based on what we've seen so far. Those 2 comparisons are NOT the same thing at all. The 1st example are 2 completely different franchises that aren't similar at all, and the 2nd example are 2 shows from the EXACT SAME franchise both using the EXACT same gimmick, kid goku. I'd say those 2 examples aren't comparable at all, and it's totally fair to make the GT comparison with the 2nd one if you wanted to, because why wouldn't you, it's the exact same idea, just with a different story.
You said a whole lot of nothing for someone so confident.
You have to admit it’s a bad look to use a similar idea to one of the most mixed series in dragon ball history. Had toei just done a super continuation I bet the fanbase wouldn’t have complained at all
My main issue with Daima is the aging down to babies of Trunks (mostly) and Goten. They finally were allowed to grow up and actually contribute, even if Gotenks almost put a damper on their reappearance. (I honestly wish Gotenks would never appear again, since he is more of a ball and chain on the boys' character development) Seriously Trunks thanks to meeting his Future counterpart has all the set up you need to make the character stand out and grow but both boys seemed to be doomed to be nothing but joke fodder. (Also bringing in the Time Patrol would've fixed the Future Trunks arc's ending IMO)
After watching the ultra vegito here on TH-cam I can honestly say I don't expect anything as interesting as that from the official Dragonball.
The thing I really don't like is kid goku againl, I really want Goku back from Z, super really dumbed down Goku at times.
Does anyone remember when ssj god was absolutely hated people think it’s fire now 🤷🏽♂️ we don’t know what we want
trev carried the drawings so hard. massive respect. That final shot especially. It's like a memory that doesn't exist. I can almost see it move as an unreleased scene of DBZ. Lovely. Trev is intensely good at drawing the faces, hair, hands and clothing. Massive, massive respect as always
5:07
Danny! I heard Danny’s voice and did a hard double take lol
Was not expecting this cameo
Edit: I’d like to note that Danny is a comedian. He says a LOT of things that heavily exaggerate his actual opinion.
@zirath17 same 💯
I, for one, am very glad fans don't get "everything they want." Because frankly, when fans do create their own content, it inevitably has a distinct feel of edginess, lack of creativity and simple-minded, violent aggression. Even Toyotaro's original fan mangas did this, exactly. I honestly don't think character's eyes can get any squintier. (You know what I'm talking about.) Every series variation thrives off being counter-balanced by the adventurous spirit, comedy and wholesomeness that's existed since the first chapter of Dragonball. And most fans suck at emulating that, because all they can think of is color forms, angry expressions and grunting. Heroes is exactly that, and it sucks. Daima may be underwhelming, but I'm glad it's closer to GT 2 than Heroes 2. Or AF 2 for that matter.
Get what you mean by this. Even a great example of tue animation that was shown. I think work like these relies heavily on whats already establish ( why bother creating quailty of life aspect if you already know the property) then creating one yourself. I do think Daima is something Fans need to kinda break down that dragonball is a series is only about fighting
5:38 This is basically my mindset with the words "don't fix what ain't broke"
I understand the art style of Daima I just wanted Kid Goku to be bit more chubby as he was in Dragon ball.
This hurts a lot
Made a lot of good points mark. Only thing I’m not a fan with are the fact that the characters are all kids and babies, just a personal thing probably. Hope it isn’t that last the whole series. Apart from that I’m interested to see what this series will be about. I trust Toryima and look forward to what it may bring. Also beautiful artwork 🐉
This is the Wind Waker discourse all over again oh God time really is cyclical and everything repeats by 20 years
Absolutely.
Mark, I appreciate you immensely, but I have to say something. Your comments miss the mark. This is a not a series for us (millennials). We are old and this looks like a series that is meant to bring in an entirely new generation of kids, and it is drawn and marketed as such. It's a way to soft-reboot the series for an entirely new generation where we, the now-parents, will support their children to purchase merchandise and be involved with the franchise.
Maybe it'll be a good story, maybe it won't. I certainly hope it's a compelling story with great action. But this is undeniably an attempt to bring Dragonball to a new audience and make money off a franchise that is beloved by hundreds of millions.
By first glance, it feels like the Dragonball equivalent of SD Gundam.
Criticism 1: that's basically it. There are no superficial similarities, it's the same concept (A series that seeks to bring back the adventurous part of the beginning of Dragon Ball and transforms the protagonist into a child). Whether the series will prove to be different enough or will stick to the original proposal (which GT didn't do) is another story.
Criticism 2: At the same time: yes, the person can complain and say: "who asked for this?" and no: "it's just another anime in the franchise, not the NEXT DRAGON BALL Z" it doesn't have to be the next big anime. Is it fair to criticize the work for not being what you expected? maybe yes maybe no.
7:32 Not what he said and what you put in the video, he clearly meant: "Toriyama is no longer in tune with the Fanbase/most of it" and IT'S TRUE, just look at dragon ball minus or Fukkatsu no F
8:15 you just did the same thing as him, if he doesn't speak for the majority of the fanbase, neither do you
Criticism 3: it's just stupid. The only valid thing is: the showtime. What time will the anime show? because the Dragon Ball Anime is much more violent and SERIOUS than the Super (which barely had any blood in the anime), if the criticism is not about the possible prior censorship due to the airing time, it is idiotic.
Criticism 4: it's just stupid.
Criticism 5: preferring the fights that Goku is no longer, but children are a taste.
17:05 baseless speculation.
20:09 ok... and? When you criticize the flaws in his works, he's not that GOD who doesn't make mistakes and everything he touches automatically becomes perfect that you talk about with so much pleasure. I don't think Toriyama is perfect, much less infallible...
Espero que Daima seja bom.
W comment
@@mathieul4303can you turn that W upsidedown momentarily cause I'm lovin it 😂
yeah you're wasting your time basically. im not gonna read your essays.
@@sythv3 Good for you 👍
Mark, i know you are raising some good points, but many fans just won't take the time to consider them. First impression is always crucial, and after seeing the trailer for Daima, i'm sure it alienated a lot of fans and they instantly decided they won't like this.
Unless there will be a very good reception to it, and fans will encourage others to try it out, I just don't see it going as well as it could.
DBS ended on a high note and fans were left eager to see when the story will resume. In the meantime we had the cinematic spectacles that were the Broly and Super Hero movie, which further raised fans expectations for the day that the anime will resume.
So getting Daima instead of a continuation of Super must have left many people with a sour taste in their mouth.
The concept of the fans knowing better for a fan base which the stereotype is that they argue about power levels in a series where every arc resets the power scale. Quite frankly no, fans don’t know what makes a show good. They know what they like and that’s it.
Kinda yes & kinda no. Some “fans” clearly don’t pay attention to details and just want a completely ridiculous canon that doesn’t fit the themes of the story, but on the other hand, real fans who understand the story have come up with awesome theories on where to take a series that could be great with an Authors’ idea incorporated for some twists of their own.
The blanket statement of fans not knowing what they want feels disingenuous to fans who truly understand the series & want to see an author expand on concepts that are lacking
@@finalgaming8053 nah fans don’t know shit. They think they would know better when the bad thing already ended. Even if you gave them everything they wanted they would absolutely find a reason to complain. Shoot, said fans right now are going crazy over a series that Hasn’t even been released yet, at this point I’m starting to believe the only sane people are just the people who enjoy the show and ends it at that.
@@Siaman668No.
Now that you actually bring up the whole Spiderman joke in the first half of the video
believe it or not I actually had that exact situation happen to me. And the funny thing was, was that I ALREADY OWNED Spiderman 2 for the ps2!
"Have you seen Dragon Ball?" Oh Mark, you know most Dragon Ball fans have never seen Dragon Ball.
And this goes to almost every dragon ball fan
Fans got upset that their making Dragon Ball Babies and Mark really just went, " you dont understand, this is innovative, the only possible way to get good detail fight choreography in dragonball again is to make the entire cast toddlers!"
Where did he say something like that? He said that aging down the characters won't make the fights worse
LOL, Mark is a complete clown. Most DBTubers are.
RIP Toriyama, but he lost touch a long time ago. This is a Vince McMahon situation, a man who was good at the start but slowly lost touch. That's how DBS superhero was named. He didn't remember the series was already called Super. The people who work with him in Japan didn't dare to correct him or question him.
As someone who loves OG Dragon Ball, I'm pumped for Daima!
Everyone: This is like a *sequel* to GT!
TNM: No, this isn't a *rehash* of GT!
That guy from TikTok: Toriyama doesn't know what DBZ fans *want* !
TNM: Toriyama knows exactly what Dragon Ball *is* ! Also, this is what we always wanted so shut up.
7:27 “from this quote, ‘fan’”
Is such a WILD roast
I owe you an apology Mark. I wasn’t familiar with your game.
I was so thrown off when I heard ff14 music, otherwise thank you for putting out more art showcases, seeing people draw something they're passionate about is always inspiring
lmao me but w/ the apollo justice music
Honestly I think I know what I wanted, and it wasn't the Moro arc
I wanted to explore the other universes established in Super, I wanted Vegeta to finally go visit U6 Sadala with Cabba, I wanted to see how would the new Jiren be, I wanted to see if 17's wish brought back the universes previously erased BEFORE the tournament of power
I want Dragon Ball to use what it establishes and has yet to use rather than introduce something that feels both recycled (Red and Gero's descendants, Cell Max, Babidi possible relation in the trailer) and out of nowhere because out of the stunning 28 planets in U7, there are still threats that are unmonitored
Perhaps that's what we're getting, who knows
But I can't help but feel this whole premise is not necessary, it feels gimmicky. I too wanted the fights to feel more martial arty and grounded, but I didn't want the series to regress to do it. That's also what people disliked about Goku in GT.
Not to mention Goten and Trunks being sidelined again, it's like Toriyama doesn't know what to do with these characters anymore. Same with Pan, who showed such promise in the last movie...
We have Toriyama at the wheel, I'm supposed to be relieved, but all I can think is "Tori is going to DB Minus your DB GT"
Even in dragonball z, Goten was already sidelined in the timeskip, he got beat up by pan. he doesn’t have Goku’s strength or Gohan’s intelligence