Dragon Ball Daima is NOT Dragon Ball GT
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ต.ค. 2023
- Dragon Ball Daima is not Dragon Ball GT. A lot of folks have a lot of thoughts about this series (myself included) and I figured this would be a good way to address some of the more common criticisms I've seen online concerning this brand new series on the horizon.
Do people have cause for concern? Are they right? Or is it a little more complicated than that? Let's see!
SUPPORT US ON PATREON: / totallynotmark
MUSIC USED
Daima's Trailer
DBGT Score
Dan Dan Kokoro Hikareteku (Cover by V0RA)
Character Select (Gunvolt 2)
Menu (SF Third Strike)
Kid Goku (DB Final Bout)
Kid Goku (DBFZ)
Court is in Session (Apollo Justice)
All Out Battle! (Cover by Pokemixr92)
To The Grand Line (Cover by Carameii)
The Land Breathes (FFXIV)
Furnace of War (Tales of Vesperia)
Stage Select (MMX5)
SSJ Caulifla (DBS) - บันเทิง
Forgive the oversight! I completely forgot to mention the wonderful Mix who did the incredible compositing for these drawings, bringing them as close as possible to the real deal. Check him out! twitter.com/MixtheSkele
Please tell me what was the theme was in this section 18:41 I’ve been going crazy looking for it😭😭
The entirety of this video's discussion hinges upon the notion that the original "Dragon Ball" is unanimously enjoyed. The justification that Daima should be allowed to exist is because original Dragon Ball exists falls flat for most of the fandom as it's simply not beloved.
There's a reason why Kai was titled Dragon Ball Z Kai in the West to ensure there was no mistake that it was Z being given the animation clean-up and filler trimming. The undisputed truth is that majority of Dragon Ball fans do not enjoy pre-Z.
Classic Dragon Ball is not as a product to the fans at large is considered not required watching. It was essentially skipped over for the Kararot (only adding the last Tournament arc as DLC.) There's no Team Four Star "Classic Abridged".
The reason for so much disdain towards Daima is because fans as a whole do KNOW they want the story from the magna to continue. The masses want the conclusion of Super to finally bridge the time skip at the end of Z... and they know they want it before a rather old series creator potential could end up in Other World.
The time for playing with something new and fresh is something for after Z/Super's story is complete. Not something that could potentially result in that being delayed... or potentially being incomplete.
Question, is Daima going to have arcs and more story’s, past the 14 episodes that they will do, or is it just a 40th anniversary special?
OH MY GOD MY TIKTOK WAS USED IN THIS VIDEO!! I’ve never been so honored before in my life!! Even though he totally disagreed with my take, I’m still honored 😅 I LOVE your content Mark! I’d love to discuss my take more sometime
You cannot shot down the idea that Daima is GT ver.2. I'm a fan of GT even with it's flaws because I grew-up with kid Goku with the translations we got are not filtered like those that usually happens to animes being imported to the west. Add to that since I'm asian actually living in asia, the culture is not much difference so we can actually understand the general idea of what is going on. Hence, the ideas, jokes and other stuff we easily get, more so than my cousin and friends living in the US when we usually have talks and compare translations on the plots and words used in DB, DBZ and movies.
But, Daima is too similar in the general plot and aesthetic to GT. Sure, Goku is not the only one that got turned to a kid, but if we think about it, the main concept of Goku becoming a kid, goes in an adventure in space - is still GT in the heart of it. So no matter how much one argues, Daima is a version of GT, but in Akira Toriyama's concept, much like how he made Broly canon.
Daima is, no matter what argument one might say is a LOVE LETTER to GT, his original DB and probably to his peers (Previous Editors, collaborators etch.) by Toriyama in my personal opinion. It's easy to forget that although Toriyama produced good stories and characters, some of his greatest achievements is because of the help and at times, push of his peers. A good example of this is how Cell played out. If his editor didn't stand on his ground and made Toriyama upgrade Cell or just went to Tpriyama's idea of android 17 and 18 as the main antagonist of the Android Saga, then we might not have the things we loved like Gohan being SSJ2 or Perfect Cell or Mr. Satan just to name a few. Sure all of these are debatable, but, if you look at it, everything was a chain reaction, not solely because of Akira Toriyama's decision, but the push of other people. Heck, if Toei didn't make a push for GT or DBS, I think we wouldn't even have another resurgence of Dragon Ball.
To be honest, I really don't mind Daima being called as GT Ver.2. If the original GT was fully handled by Toriyama, and we all know that in the end of the day, GT was still being approved by Toriyama, since the GT team still needs to consult him, the backlash on GT will not be that great. But, the main reason people keep on lacking GT was because GT isn't canon. Now, here we have a kid version of Goku. Created by Toriyama. With a general plot too similar to GT. Yet, in the end people still doesn't like it.
Just goes to show that people, most specially those who turned to adults, that they just wanted to hate GT. And it's reflecting anything related or somewhat similar to GT - even if Toriyama himself said he liked GT. Yes, GT wasn't perfect, but it did gave us a lot as well. I'll not go into the rabbit hole in explaining things since I'm already writing a wall of text here, in which I don't know if this is even gonna be read.
But, in general, Daima, being branded as GT ver.2 isn't bad. As I mentioned, Broly was finally canonized by Toriyama, so why not try to simply canonized some of the things leading to GT. I can see that the possibility of Uub and some sort of SSJ4 be in the horizon. Who knows. Maybe Daima being what it is, might lead to the reason why at the end of Z, God powers or Ki is somewhat gone and the road to be open-up for a possible reboot of GT.
I can imagine for example, that the crisis behind this might be because of how Saiyans in general are able to reach Godhood - which can lead to the unbalance of the universe. Just imagine how many Saiyans there is on earth right now. Goku and Vegeta are pure Saiyans, Gohan, Goten, Trunks and Bulla are all half saiayans, and is considered that Half-Humans and Half-Saiyans are more powerful than full blood saiyans, then Pan a 1/4th saiyan, I believe. All of them has the possibility to enter the realm of Godhood. That is if we only talking about the Saiyans on Earth. By now we can deduced that there might be other living saiyans in universe 7 as we have Broly now and Tarble (I think the argument of him being canon or not is another thing, but just putting it here though). This is just my speculation, and it can be totally wrong but the way Saiayans and breeding with Humans are going, It might lead to a powerful race of people that can have the balance of universe 7 that might also result flowing through other universes as well. Heck, this might also have happened in the other 2 universes that was erased by Zeno before.
Anyway, sorry for the long rant and by no means I'm not saying anything disrespectful to you since I do think you do provide another insight in regards to Daima. If, for some reason I do sound condescending or anything, my sincere apologies, but I assure you I'm not doing so. Peace and nice content.
My only real criticism for Daima at this point is that it missed a great opportunity to put the new generation to the forefront of the story. It would have been great if everyone got aged down while Goten, Trunks, Marin, Bulla(?) and Pan all retained their original ages, giving them (or at least Goten and Trunks) a chance to mature a bit or just simply take charge with the support of the now younger adult cast. Goten and Trunks are severely lacking in any sort of prominent spotlight and Daima could have been a chance to rectify that.
Yeah, I pretty much have no issue with Daimua but this? This right here is my primary criticism and main desire. I have been invested in focusing on the future ever since I learned that Toriyama felt as though he had to bring back Goku for the Buu Saga. I’ve been wanting to see Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Pan actually get to be the protagonists in their own right without so much of that Goku baggage getting in the way. There’s so much potential for an interesting dynamic there and we’ve frankly spent far too much time on Goku and Vegeta. It’s why I haven’t even bothered to watch Super, I just feel like we’ve been wheel spinning with the same guys over and over.
Yeah it should've been them. I agree but hopefully this wilp be good.
Exactly, having it just be about Goku is kinda frustrating imo.
Personally, I think Daima is implied to happen before super but after the buu saga. Possible Gohan and Videl’s wedding due to them not being shown in the trailer + no pan or bulla which if it happened after super would be pretty dark
Well too bad they're babies now 🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😭😭😭😭😭😭.
I just want the Moro saga with the shintani style
bits of shintani. I liked the animation in the vegeta vs broly fight but in the quiet parts not so much
We all do 😔
same
@@azimuddin1890yeah I saw the video
Kubota style better
I will say this, I kinda wish we got more diverse ages for the main cast. Goku, Krillin, Chichi and 18 being roughly the same apparent age is fine but I wished Bulma, Yamcha, and some of the others were a bit closer to their original ages in Dragonball, at least from a design standpoint. Plus I really wish Roshi was an adult man cause it makes me think of that one episode of Futurama with the Fountain of Youth.
"With my last breath, I curse YAMCHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"
i wouldve loved it if young roshi, in his prime, joined the main characters on their adventure. wouldve gone hard
Honestly, it'd be interesting to see Rhoshi as a non-elderly man; would be funny if he turned out to be a total stud in his youth. But, I've seen people say it's not trying to portray how they really looked as kids; not sure if that's true, but most of them do just look like mini versions of their current designs (as opposed to how, say, Goku or Krillen actually looked as kids).
😊😊😊😊😊
@@cincymuttin og db we got to see a little flashback of him and the crane school guy as teenagers
Actually I don’t care about that ages so much as the desgins everyone basically just looks like mini versions of themselves instead of looking like kids at least to me. I mean 18 literally looks like she shrunk . Piccolo looks nothing like how he did as a kid , same with krillin I’m not saying they couldn’t use the current modern art style but they should’ve did so with the old desgins of these character when they were younger or at least tweaked it more . They literally just look like they all shrunk .
You can say that Daimai isn't GT 2.0, but it has the same fundamental flaw that GT had; it's trying to recapture the spirit of OG Dragon Ball by transforming Goku (and friends) into children. But here's the problem with that - Goku is not a child anymore, he's a 50-something y/o man. He married his sweet heart, raised a family, been all over the Earth, been to space, been to the after life, been to the realm of the Gods. You can't recapture the spirit of a bright-eyed boy adventuring through the world and marveling at how large and wondrous it is anymore, because Goku has literally done it all.
Spot on
On the dot. If only there was a younger Goku look alike that didn't have all of that experience readily available in the cast
Gottem
What are you talking about? The fundamental flaw of GT was the shitty writing. You can make any premise interesting. “The Shining” is set almost exclusively in a single hotel, but Kubrick made it interesting to see the main character go insane. You know almost nothing about this show (and neither do I). Also Toriyama didn’t head the story beats in GT, while he will be heavily involved in this. You haters should stop talking out your ass as if you even have the ability to critique story structure, and wait for it to come out before you pretend to hate it.
Well technically it could have worked with GT since we haven't seen much of the far reaches of space in Z
"Are we really going to sit here and act like classic dragon ball doesnt exist?"
Yes mark. Most of the fandom does. Some of them dont even need to pretend!
I've been a fan of DBZ for 20 years and still haven't seen DB 😅
@@mjf773you really should get around to it it’s very goofy at first but by the 21st WT Tournament it gets good
Except the original Dragon Ball series didn't have every character as children and the writing was by a in his prime Toriyama who had producers/editors vetting his ideas. What a ridiculous comparison.
*Western fandom isn’t aware that OG Dragonball exists.
@@sam4744 OG Dragon Ball broadcast in France before Dragon Ball Z even existed, it was big in a number of Western countries.
My personal issues for this upcoming series stems from my own indifference of the "aging down" while maintaining the adult's memories trope in both Western and Eastern media and by extension, isekais tend to dive into this quite a bit. While this does seem like it'll go beyond the scope of constant gags about it, the concept was something I seldomly enjoyed.
That being said, I'm still open to watching the series as it's Dragon Ball to give it a fair chance on whether I'd like it or not.
Agreed through and through. The animation is really really good in the Goku vs Vegeta fight in the Daima clip, but I’m just not excited for the kid thing.
Is this aimed at kids? Yeah I imagine so…But I was like, 6 watching Z, and I knew lots of other kids watching Z, all throughout my life! The overwhelming violence and dark themes worked really well then-so I do not understand why they have strayed so far from that, when it really, REALLY worked, even for kids. And the only actual child in the show at that time was Gohan, so it’s not even like kids were “represented” all the time unless it was through Gohan. I just don’t understand.
Aging the characters down to me is just symbolic of the fact that the series will do anything for nostalgia bait. We got ssj2 nostalgia bait and Cell nostalgia last movie and let's not mention Frieza. I'm just so tired of seeing the series reuse things over and over. And, people didn't like aging Goku down in GT and they did that shit AGAIN.
@@QuantumMecha They haven't strayed from that, or aleast we don't know if they have. The only thing we have is a minute long teaser that tells pretty much nothing.
@@tristysstuff6664 But people absolutely loved DBS Broly that brought Broly back, and the Android saga that brought the androids back, and the 3 tournament arcs in og DB that are all tournaments with the same premise. Anything can work if they do it right
What is isekais ?
As a fan of OG dragon ball, I am both excited and nervous for this change. I am hoping it leads to the same fun adventurous and epic storytelling that series had. I'm not expecting the tournament arcs from then, but I would love for something the gives the same feel as King piccolo, or hell even the lead up through the red ribbon army. The animation alone gives me faith that this will be at the very least entertaining. Will it be good? We'll have to see.
I’m not it trash
Same. It looks like it'll be some good, lighthearted fun while we're waiting for Super to continue. If it's good, even better. If it's mid, at least we have something to watch while we wait.
So how did you feel about kid Goku in GT?
Red Ribbon type of atmosphere would be perfect.
@@KINGDREX24How? It's not even out yet.
Just a small counterpoint: writer's have been living by the phrase "give the audience the thing they didn't know they wanted" for decades now, like it's the most profound bit of writing advice that's ever existed. And I think a lot of pop entertainment writers have, kind of unintentionally, interpreted that bit of advice pretty simplistically and dogmatically, that it's led to a general homoginizing trend in the approach to writing in popular fiction that essentially boils down to a Vince Russo esque "swerve for the sake of a swerve" style of writing.
It's risky trying to come up with something the audience didn't know they wanted (and the results of whiffing on those attempts can really turn off an audience), and you're not always going to bat a thousand when you do that.
Where it gets really detrimental is when you're *always* trying to do the unexpected and taking risks to give the audience something they didn't know they wanted because you're high on your own hype and always trying to be the smartest guy in the room, and those kinds of writers end up finding 10 things they didn't know the audience would never, *ever* want for everything they did that was something the audience didn't know they wanted.
It's why I hate that phrase - so many creators just accept it as this universal truth they always need to be striving for and employing it dogmatically. I felt like every month in the 2000s some flash in the pan comics writer the audience ultimately turned on down the road was quoting it in a Wizard magazine puff piece interview where the interviewer was basically blowing the writer telling them how clever and awesome they were.
For the most part, you should just be focusing on giving them the thing YOU are confident the audience wants, and sometimes it's going to be something they wouldn't expect they'd like, and other times it's going to be the obvious thing that you and the readers know is cool. If you don't, you're not gonna last very long because you only get to waste so many opportunities giving the audience the thing they didn't know they never wanted because they never thought anybody would be dumb enough to try to force such a bad idea to work until you came along and tried to give it to them like a hack-who-doesn't-know-they're-a-hack trying to impress their peers with how clever they think they are with a stupid swerve.
This is a really good point, but I just find it kind of funny how you said 'Quick Counterpoint' and then wrote part of an essay. (Not saying your points are invalid, just saying it's funny)
Yes. A thousand times, yes. It's the pinnacle of arrogance to tell customers and prospective customers "you don't know what you want, but I do."
thats exactly what I thought lmao
good thing this doesnt apply to Daima's case. Over the years I've seen so so many fans and people in general ask for the classic "Dragon Ball feeling" back, with more grounded combat, powers that actually felt like magic, a grandious feeling of adventure with both comedy and tension, etc. It totally feels like Daima is aiming in that direction. And if writers listen to that, theres no way a "give them what they didnt know they wanted" case can happen, here specifically.
@Ango825 I wasn't so much saying it applied here, it's just something I hear creators and critics alike say it, and when Mark mentioned it in his video, I thought it was a good chanc3 to get off a rant I've been sitting on for years lol
You can't help but be disappointed when Super's best arc(Moro) might never be animated and if they do by then Nozawa will be dead(87 years old now).
Me personally I preferred battle of Gods, it showed that Goku could lose. The Moro arc was better than Battle of Gods all the way up until the ending, where they butchered the resolution with Goku simply being given the answers by Whis - which weren’t even that profound and almost a rehash of what was said in Resurrection F (worst arc in the history of the dragon ball franchise in my opinion, and it’s undebatable for me) and he suddenly found the means necessary to defeat Moro. Felt a bit like the plot kicked in.
Moro arc is my second favourite arc of Super though.
Moro is a joke and i pray it never gets animated and we get smething else
Saddly they wont stop printing dragon ball money. Even after the whole staff is dead they will run this franchise to shtt quality death as long as there will be retrds with no standards eating anything "dragon ball" thats being put out
@@nivnavion id argue Granolah is the worst, its basically Baby from GT but without any direction
@@dannysummers4591 At least Granolah arc had some logical consistency aside from a couple retcons.
Roshi being as powerful he was, made no sense.
Gohan being as weak as he was, made no sense.
SSJB existing so early and shafting SSJG by appearing in the subsequent arc to it is ridiculous and devalues both forms, and the form is a lazy recolour.
And Goku just making mistakes in RoF that he simply would not make in Z.
Also the ending… Whis just time travelling back, almost as bad as Goku black arc ending.
My only issue with Daima is that they could've taken the series in this new direction while keeping the characters as adults.
Then I think you missed a couple of Mark's very good points. Goku, Vegeta, and a couple other characters can't truly go on fun new adventures as adults because of the current power scales, there's no room for unique stakes or grounded choreography with martial arts at it's root, ya know, to really harken back to the golden days of the original DB story like Toriyama wants.
@@Anim0sityyThen simply have the villains of the series take away their power and transformations, instead of their age. Problem solved. There's literally no reason why the characters are turned into kids here other than nostalgia baiting.
@@MrKilljaythey did take the power away with the age thing its a much better explanation than just their powers are gone but not all and they still seem the exact same, this way we can easily tell theres a difference
@@uhuh.2232 Just having their powers be gone doesn't make any less sense than them being kids again for no reason. Just come up with some BS explanation. The Dragon Balls, magic, whatever. Literally the same plot of the series could take place with the characters as adults. I'll repeat. Nothing about this series requires the characters to be children again. It's just nostalgia bait. Just like Resurrection F, the Broly movie, and Cell Max vs Gohan.
@@Anim0sityyI disagree, there's nothing that states that power levels should directly affect the adventures characters can have, and we don't even know if Goku is any weaker despite becoming a child again.
The thing that worries me the most about this is that they're effectively "starting over", but are they keeping all the same voice actors? At this point, Goku's Japanese VA is 87!
Hopefully this is a short series that is 26 episodes at most. Otherwise, they're going to have to resort to necromancy to keep these characters voiced going forward.
As someone who would like to see Super return following the manga arcs, I'm hoping Daima is a good time. It has potential to be really dynamic with the fights.
I know this won't happen, but I wish Stephanie Nadolny would reprise her role as Kid Goku in Daima.
That's what I've been saying for a while now. Colleen is good, but Stephanie is Goku.
Stephanie is what most of us grew up with as Goku and has that great energy. Colleen did great as Kai's Gohan (which I didn't know I needed). But after hearing Colleen's Goku in DBZ's Kakorot DLC:, I do miss Steph's Goku, but there's a chance she's not available.
@differentperson6790 Colleen is pretty good. Her Kid Gohan voice grew on me during this past decade. However, I'm still not used to her being as the voice of Kid Goku. I think it'd be a great idea if Stephanie voiced Kid Goku while Colleen voiced Kid Gohan in Daima. A bit of a nice throwback for old Dragon Ball fans.
@@MikeAruba69 If it's really a celebration of 40 years of the anime, it would be nice. The Funi staff have hired previous VA back for Super as fun callbacks to their earlier work, so I think it's possible. Biggest example I can think of is Brian Drummand as Copy Vegeta from Super, as he's represents the most evil of Vegeta (it's what I think of when I think of the Saiyan Saga).
@@briansilva3344 I never actually thought about the fact that BD again plays an EVIL Vegeta in Copy Vegeta, once again obsessed with power but not training to get it.
Toyria doesnt understand fans want fights and shit
-sees dragon ball heros being so much fights but 75% of the fans ignore it exist as it been running for years at this point-
They meant like broly movie from super kind but ok
My issue is it feels like an unnecessary regression instead of further progression
The creators of DB painted themselves into a corner. Where are the characters suppose to go? Who should they fight? It's hard to imagine more powerful beings in that universe.
New Antag is a magical being that can only be damaged by the person with a matching power level. Suddenly, everyone from Goku/Vegeta to Yamcha could have a role to play. Came up with that in less than 2 minutes.@@BAJF93
@@BAJF93they did, but could be fixed, you know how? USE THE FUCKING KIDS! Or just introduce something to scale down the Saiyans. Explore the remaining universes, Namekians, why there are Tuffles and Yardrats outside the universe 6/7. Its not like there isnt anything left in lore to explore. Moro showed that magic could put the cast to shame.
Theres a manga they could somewhat fellow with lol. @BAJF93
exactly its over extended @@BAJF93
Tbh I’m just really happy to see Toriyama this hands on
Same, as soon as I learned that he's very involved and motivated by Daima, it was enough for me to watch it when it does come out.
Will it be better because of it?
@@pn2294 Obviously. It's also obvious you're not familiar with his work at all.
Toriyama is not to be over rated, if it wasn’t for his editors we wouldn’t have Cell, plus he’s the primary responsible for the Buu saga (the worst DBZ arc). Idk if you have read his other works, but they are very humor directed.
@@twentyfivemelody Yes, you know better than toriyama how to make a good Dragon Ball story.... And Buu arc is the worst arc bc fans couldn't handle Goku being dead so he had to discard his plans of turning Gohan into the main character.
I'm excited for it. Sure I'm hesitant, but with Toryama involved so heavily and now knowing they've already produced the episodes makes me more invested.
Same Toryama that is forgetful and cannot stay consistent with feats...Sure
@@turnermarius4471 And is... not that good of a writer. At all.
@@AzraelSoulHunter ESPECIALLY unsupervised.
Yeah, I'm a fan of GT and think it's cool Toriyama is going to give the basic concept a redo. It shows that he supported the de-aging idea all along; now he has the chance to do it right.
@@pacario9625kinda like what he did with Broly.
Toriyama and Toyotaro constantly teasing Goten and Trunks being older and giving Gotenks another shot only to yank it away from us reminds me of the Simpsons episodes where Maggie is grown up in future story episodes but still doesnt talk because of strange circumstances, which makes me think they're doing it deliberatly just to have fun with the whole concept. The current arc in the manga giving them some of the spotlight has me excited for their future past the arc
The characters won't remain as children forever. They'll grow back to normal size eventually.
My biggest concern is actually that I'm struggling to see the logical reasoning behind babyfying everyone in the first place if they all keep their memories and powers, and how they're going to find logic in keeping Pan, Goten, Trunks, and even Gohan around when their parents were aged back to a point before they ever had children. If everyone who can fight back has been aged back to allow someone to take over the world by making them weaker and unaware, à la Experiment 151 from Lilo and Stitch, then leaving the main cast with their powers and wits doesn't really make sense. If it was a set age reversal for the main cast overall, then not only should certain characters cease to exist, but other characters who have lived for far longer (Roshi) or whose age has little effect on their physical appearance (Piccolo) shouldn't become the same as others and should stay relatively older or at least bigger.
The main issue right now for me though, is that this was clearly something done specifically to the main cast, as the teaser trailer shows human adults being confused in the background at 2:20. So why, if everyone else only got turned into children with all their adult knowledge, would the younger characters get turned into mindless babies..? My best guess is to create some character conflicts and give a reason for certain characters to have to stay behind and look after them, which in most circumstances is considered lazy writing.
Wait, they are gonna have there powers? Damn
Yeah the child goku thing in GT felt supremely pointless to me, especially when for some reason, SSJ4 turns you into an adult? It felt like an attempt to recapture dragon ball's magic, but dragon ball's magic wasn't from Goku being tiny, but from him also having *the mind of a child*. Similarly here, I am not sure what the point of it is supposed to be from a storytelling perspective. But I'm not a doomer about it, we'll see, maybe they come up with something good.
@@Junebug89 SSJ4 turned Goku into an adult because he needed an adult body to contain all the power he got. Not sure how that was hard to understand, I think I understood it pretty well.
I don't think it was just to recapture the magic of Ball, specifically Goku being turned into a kid, but also to give Goku a limit to what he can do. He couldn't turn into anything past Super Saiyan due to lack of stamina in a child's body and couldn't use Instant Transmission (don't ask me how that makes sense, but it did make tensions feel pretty high). It was neat seeing Goku fight without just having to transform and throw a Kamehameha to kill an enemy, he had to use his Martial Arts prowess (which he had become a master of). Of course, when he got his tail back he was able to go into Super Saiyan 3, but he rarely did that unless he needed to.
I can't imagine they'd do the same for Daima. GT just had a different kind of magic to it, even if it does have its flaws. This just feels pandering.
@@biohazardbin Super Saiyan Four Goku doesn't turn Goku into an adult, Super Saiyan Four turns the giant ape smaller and more humanoid. Case in point Vegeta is already an adult but super saiyan four makes him taller. It is a combat transformation independent of physical maturity.
To me, Daima's mass age down is one of the series' best excuses to actually let the side characters participate since Z. Because even if the Saiyans are just automatically better than everyone else, presumably everyone will be weaker than the villains in this state. So, hopefully, teamwork and strategy will be the main factors in overcoming the odds.
Also, I think it would be cool if their altered biology actually left the Saiyans unable to use their Super/God forms for a little while. Full-on back to basics stuff.
Ew nah if I don't get blue kid Goku then this show is trash
WHAT ABOUT TRUNKS AND GOTEN??? The characters who have amounted to n o t h i n g this entire franchise! They're gone because of this decision, it's a horrible decision even in that light
@@ihavenonamestilldonthaveon8970 I would have prefered keeping the boys older and seeing how they handled the situation, but I do like the legacy characters more, so I can't really say that it bothers me too much.
I'm looking forward to Daima, but they could have solved it differently. For example, the villain (whoever that is) could have wished "I wish the Z-Fighters were all weaker than me!"
read into the dragonball fighter Z lore. and you will see that this is not "the best excuse"
Me personally, I just feel deflated by the prospect of Daima doing an entirely new story that'll probably be far removed from the other stuff that Super set up that's been dangling for years now with no significant payoff. To this day since the T.O.P ended, there hasn't been a single character or story aside from maybe the games that's seriously explored the other universes and their untapped possibilities. But who knows, maybe leaving those threads to dangle is for the better, it just kinda sucks to not see any follow-through before switching gears
I’m still waiting on Vegeta to visit planet sadala
@@tiablue9106yeah that's not gonna happen dude
Yeah that's where I'm at too. Kinda feels like they want to avoid that as much as possible.
Trev is absolutely incredible at drawing this style, I adore it.
you wouldve "adored" any outcome bruh 😂
@@home9dog2blue199 ??
bruh??
"Guys, it's too early to tell for sure what Daima is going to be! We don't know anything! Also, I know for sure it won't be a slice of life because I need my argument to make sense"
- Mark (2023)
Why would an entire dragon ball show be slice of life. There is no precedent for that. It’s idiotic conjecture to think it would be.
@@enzog1078 Okay, so nothing ever changes and nothing is never new and nothing is ever revolutionary. Things will always be the way they have always been and they will stay that way simply because that's the way they've always been.
@@enzog1078 Let's completely ignore the fact that the same creator has already made leaps in tone, themes, and overall presentation.
You're probably right though, we should ignore the fact that Akira Toriyama went from a gag mangaka, to an adventure-focused re-telling of journey to the west, to one of the greatest shonen battle manga ever... It's gotta be "idiotic conjecture" to say there's a chance he's interested in exploring the slice of life genre.
@@juangutierrez7277again, you’re assuming. There is no reason to believe this show will be slice of life. Nothing has been shown alluding to that. We know the show is dragon ball. That’s it. Is dragon ball a slice of life anime? No. It is not.
He is friends with Anime Ajay who is the one who leaked the show as Dragon Ball Magic and has insider information about the show. The two of them definitely know stuff about Daima that we don’t.
I'll keep my opinions about Daima saved for when the show actually comes out but its funny to me that Everytime I see Kid Goku in Daima I just think of how Goku used to be the lovable pudgy lil kid in original DragonBall vs his Chibi Look now lol I know its Toriyama's Modern style but it still makes me chuckle cause Honestly even going back to DragonBall Super Broly when we saw Kid Vegeta and Kid Raditz in that, they looked more like they were Chibi characters than actual kid versions. It reminds me of how Pikachu used to be as well when you compare him in the early 90s episodes vs how he looks today in them heck even Pre timeskip Chopper vs Post Time Chopper as well haha
Ayyy, Jaxblade is here too.
it’s like when they redrew stills from OG Dragonball in the beginning of Battle of Gods and Krillin wasn’t a chubby boy, but a scrawny adult. 😂
To me children/kids having stocky or stubby bodies is important. Their proportions make me feel like I AM looking at kids. But these stick-like bodies look damn offputting to me. Them being stocky also gives more leeway to imply they have muscle under what may seem fat.
@@ItchRevenge92 Honestly, this is the biggest issue I have right now.
@@s3studios597 I can live with the designs as long as they don't draw the kids with abs. I hated that on Gotenks and I'll hate that for the rest of the charachters if they do it. There's no reason to give the kid designs that.
The thing is, days before the announcement, I was discussing in a group chat how turning Goku into a kid was one of the worst decisions GT made, so it felt like they heard and said “oh, you didn’t like that?.. HERE! Everyone’s a kid now!”
Quite literally exactly that.
While im hearing some of your defenses there are some core issues with Daima:
A) A good LOOKING anime =/= a good story. OG DB far in apart looks the worst in terms of quality compared to what would come later, but is still widely regarded some of if not the best work in the series. DB was good cause of its characters and story, and of some of the crude humor intermixed. Super Hero left a lot of people disappointed despite how good looking it is, yet most people would say Battle of Gods (which has that shiny art style that is so hated) is one of the best as examples
B) Just cause Goku is a kid equally doesn't mean this show is gonna be GT anymore than it is gonna be the OG DB. The main issue with Super WASNT an inconsistent quality of art style and animation (While definetly an issue), but the characterization of a Goku and the rest of the gang that came after Z as well as some of the villains and arcs being laughably generic.
C) Making everyone kids completely reverts their progression. This is especially true for Goten and Trunks, who are basically babies now, but its bigger than that.
Part of what made DB great was watching Goku and the gang grow up and eventually build a family, hell thats what some of the best Shonens follow in a nutshell (Naruto and Bleach at least). Them being kids is a reset button on progression which is probably the worst way to continue content for your franchise.
If you wanted to recapture the magic of DB, why not just remaster the quality of the original show to celebrate its anniversary? rather than just re-tread on its already done ideas. Most people ive seen talk about the last two movies really enjoyed the original DB scenes remade for the call backs in their films, so why not just remaster the Goat rather than Emulate it?
D) Daima basically highlights the main issue with Modern DB, it started with ROF and came back with DBS Broly and then Super Hero: Its obsession with rehashing old ideas. Not concepts, not designs (Sometimes at least) but entire arcs and characters.
DBS SH was probably the most blatant example as the villain, Beast transformation, the overal plot and even some of the shots from the fight itself is a blatant rehash of the Android and Cell Sagas. I wouldnt be surprised if in 2-3 years we get a movie about Buu being a villain again. What Super Hero is to Cell Saga is what Daima is to OG DB.
E) When people say they want a continuation of DBS, it isnt just about the DBS Manga. YES most people want to see the Manga events adapted into the anime the same way the Manga adapted the Anime when it came out. However, it comes from a genuine desire to see the series continue one way or another.
Daima is extremely disappointing because as far as im aware; it takes place *before* Super. So any hopes of it maybe being a filler arc prior to the real DBS series or somehow being a tie in are basically thrown out right off the rip. You also have to take into account that Toriyama has been blue balling his fanbase with new movies every few years. So naturally we have been expecting the anime to EVENTUALLY return especially with the manga adapting the Movie events into its cannon.
Toriyama could've continued DBS in his own unique way without adapting any of the manga if he so chose, but with Daima he chose to do neither valid option and instead do what is basically a soft reboot.
Which much like the common criticism, isn't what DB fans have ever asked for, and as such he and his fans cannot blame the rest of the community for not accepting or welcoming Daima.
F) Because this series comes before Super, and is supposedly non cannon to Super, none of what happens in it really matters. It reeks of filler, and all things like it. As a fan, you cant be expected to accept Daima and its ideas off the back of the last 5 years of building up hype towards a canonical continuation of the anime only to be given what is essentially a slap in the face.
I really don't know why Toriyama would think DB fans would've accepted this without controversy knowing damn well we wanted DBS to continue and he's been sorta continuing it every few years. I mean the initial reaction to this is exactly what id expect given the fact most people dont like GT and the main plot that starts GT is "Someone made a wish to turn Goku into a kid" and granted theres more to GT but that doesn't change how similar it is conceptually.
G) Initial impressions are everything. A lot of people will avoid watching this just like Heros and GT just because of the initial impression. On the opposite side, a lot of people are gonna watch this just because its DB and it "looks pretty" because as DB fans we have been starved of animated content. 2 individual movies over the course of 5 years cant make up for what having a series week by week will ever do. If the anime had actually ended when it did, Daima would be more acceptable. But since Toriyama has gone out of his way to continue the story through movies, we wont be happy till we get a proper ending.
-
You cant have Legacy of Goku without GT being completed, and you cant have Battle of Gods without Z being complete either.
So making an entirely different show that doesnt continue the story left hanging but with the same characters of said story, is a dick move. Especially since that time, effort, and money could be better spent on something more concrete that is more likely to succeed, its better both for fans and for business' to just continue Super rather than invest in something you cant be sure people are gonna like, especially given the response to the show already.
H) Toriyama went through the trouble of bringing new core characters to the series; Revamp Broly, Cheelai, Gamma 1 and 2, and DR Hedo. They are gonna be reoccurring characters in the story just like Beerus and Whis were when they were introduced. However he has yet to actually capitalize on the interest he's built in them by not continuing DBS. So it begs the question; why introduce them at all? why not just treat them like the original Broly or other Z movie villains who are one offs that either die or have to leave the universe for one reason or another like in the case of Tapion?
Moreover what was the point of giving Gohan and Piccolo new transformations if he's not gonna capitalize on the interest in those Legacy characters? That's the other problem, we can assume he is 100% going to continue the series at SOME point, but Daima is gonna hinder and delay that one way or another.
At least if there was no show we would know that the hiatus time was spent on that show, but if DBS returns with "budget issues" the same way it had when it first launched, we will know exactly why. Even if it DOESNT have this issue, it would still beg the question of why delay it at all when we've already waited so long. Bleach had legit reasons as to why it couldn't return for 12 years, and why it was canceled in the first place. DB does not have such excuses and we have almost waited half of that time.
Daima is basically a conglomerate of the issues with Modern Dragon Ball, but also mixed with the issues of how Toriyama has treated his fanbase over the last 5 years. To reiterate what I said earlier, Daima would be acceptable when Super was actually finished, but not a moment sooner. Maybe it'll be good, great even, but at the cost of the story he left behind and it wont change the fact that none of it adds anything to previously established story we got in Super.
If Toriyama wanted this to go over well he should've shelved this idea for later on when he actually finished Super.
IF this series does surprisingly well, then what? make another Daima? further ignore DBS Anime return? or shelve the return of Daima for when you finish DBS? either way the order is nonsensical. Finishing Super would allow him to have the freedom to do whatever he wants with the franchise with less controversy, the same way GT has a fanbase when Z was finished despite it not being officially cannon, or DB AF when GT was finished and so on. Battle of Gods was the same way when it came out, it was free to make changes to the larger world of DB because Z had finished and GT was never cannon. Harry Potter did the same thing with the Fantastic Beast Trilogy. Daima could've been the GT or Fantastic Beasts for fans when they wanted more content when the series was well and truely over, rather than being an interruption.
Daima being where it is doesn't help itself either, as itll likely be overshadowed by the DBS prior and the DBS that comes later, much like how CoD Ghosts is forgotten but not Cod Black Ops 2 or 3. Itll likely have its fanbase, but it'll likely be a much smaller fanbase than if it were allowed room to breathe without having the expectation of DBS suffocating it
Also A) what is a good looking anime? what is a good story? Opionions and different tastes, besides some objective points, cannot be argued with. For example, I personaly hate the art-style and commedy driven One Piece, but that doesn't make it any less succesfull. And example 2, I really like the Tournament of Power, but the 'story' is weak AF.
To me, I'll leave Daima alone. I'll leave it for the newer generations, like I did with Pokémon. It's not for me, I'm to old for this shit.
Bruh I'm not reading all of that
@@thestupidfuncrisallstodios470 Then dont
You have me all the way with this. It hits ALL the points I have about these newer Dragon Ball series.
Although, do not say GT is not canon. Canon doesn't mean a damn thing in this series. It's not like they don't still profit off of it, they put GT in Heroes, Xenoverse, FighterZ, probably Sparking! Zero when it comes out. Let's not pretend GT wasn't the official continuation for YEARS until Super came out.
Well Toriyama waited to long and has unfortunately passed away. So now much hope for DBS part 2 isnt lookin good. May he rest in piece
RIP Toriyama Sensei
Dragon ball Daima appears to encapsulate one of my biggest problems with modern Dragon Ball: A refusal to move on. Here we are regressing once more instead of creating stories past the end of Z. Sure, Daima might work in its own self-contained way, but I am sick of characters staying the same.
I'm sure that a large proportion of Dragon Ball viewers are only interested in the fights and don't follow the story of boring side characters or long-winded backstory fillers
i mean lets be honest, well threaded plots an character development has never really been dragon balls strength as a series, its light, its easy its funny and exciting, and some times epic and badass but never deep or thought provoking, its just not meant to be.
This hurts a lot
Dragon Ball has been more kid-friendly since Super, so I think it's hard to argue that turning the entire cast into kids isn't taking that a step further. That's not to say anything about its quality, but they obviously want to create a new generation of fans, as do other companies with massive IPs.
I don't quite get your point about it not being "GT 2".
We are not saying "omg it's literally the continuation of Dragonball Gt" but rather "holy hell didn't they learn their lesson with GT?"
The criticism of the fanbase, or what I think it is, is that having goku and the cast turning children means the show will go in a certain direction, most likely less epic, grandiose, there's going to be less focus on the different universes and their protagonists and all that in favor for a more kid-friendly, cute and innocent show.
Granted this doesn't necessarily mean that DAIMA is going to be a bad show or that it shouldn't exist, rather than the its focus will be in contrast with what the fanbase has been looking forward with the series since... Z, honestly.
I'm glad we're having something different instead of upping the scale everytime a new enemy shows up, but I'm just not excited by the stories that we can tell by having the cast be... babies
GT's problem was that it was bad, let's get that out of the way. It wasn't that Goku was a kid, or that he was going on a space adventure, or the fact that Pan and Trunks were there, it was because it was bad (and without Toriyama). How many content creators and TH-cam comments have to say "good ideas, poorly executed" when referring to GT before that's understood. Not to mention that calling it a copy of GT just because Goku is a kid again is just superficial as hell. Mark also addressed the idea that young characters = safer, kiddie show: Original Dragon Ball exists, dude.
All this to say what was repeated in the video - it's not out yet.
@@chubomikz7104a trailer is supposed to bring hype to the thing who isn’t out yet.
yes but are people even saying that one of the good ideas of GT is bringing back kid goku? I don't think it is. Usually the good ideas of GT are SSJ4, the corrupted dragonball and a couple of storyline.
Saying "people dislike it because it's bad" doesn't help any argument if you don't aknowledge WHY it is bad.
Also let's be real here: dbz is darker than OG dragonball@@chubomikz7104
Fans got upset that their making Dragon Ball Babies and Mark really just went, " you dont understand, this is innovative, the only possible way to get good detail fight choreography in dragonball again is to make the entire cast toddlers!"
Where did he say something like that? He said that aging down the characters won't make the fights worse
LOL, Mark is a complete clown. Most DBTubers are.
I mean it's not GT2 in a literal sense, but it does inevitably invoke GT feels because it has similarities as compared to canon sequel series stories like Super or the new-era movies.
Canon argument, opinion discarded.
Doesnt your defense from criticism 4 only help to make the point of criticism 1 even stronger? Since GT was also made to capture the original DragonBall nostalgia.
I'm not Mark but here's the thing about GT, it aims to hearken back to the original Dragon Ball yes but its manner of doing so is only "Goku becomes kid and the set-up is an adventure with a group of characters.". Why GT falters is that it quickly abandons this and also does very little to begin with with this idea. For instance, Goku is not weakened. He can't use Instant Transmission and SS3 is more useless because the energy drain is more insane but Goku otherwise is just as skilled and capable as he was by the end of Z. Daima takes the OG DB homages a step further. As Toriyama's blurb and some clips of the trailer cover, Goku and the others do not have their crazy powers thanks to this. They still have Ki but judging from that scene of him floating off, their new bodies initially make them incapable of using it properly so they have to rely on hand-to-hand and in Goku's case, the Nyoibo. That's already doing a lot to bring the atmosphere of the original back.
You’re right, fights and new forms are not all dragon ball is, but be careful not to undersell them. If the fights weren’t good, dragon ball would not be anything like what it is today.
Yet Mark isnt trying to. Only one who is seemingly doing this is you.
@@Draconic_Incenerator did you really just try to hit me with a no u? Like… give me one example of how I’m doing that.
@@sRtAoIrNm I dont have to as thats what the video is for.
If you choose to not watch and learn thats not my problem.
@@Draconic_Incenerator lmao, you are literally making shit up
Not what he's saying and you know it.
Do any one know what theme mark ends his videos on. It sounds like the Original DB ending 1 and I can’t find the Pacific version of ii. Please help me with my problem.
Specific*
But, no. I don't.
I just want Moro and Granolah, or at least a story set after the ending of Z…
We still don't even know how canon Daima will be! This could be just a fun spin-off project for all we know. And even if it is canon, we have no idea where this will go! When have we ever been able to guess what Toriyama will do next? Even Toriyama doesn't always know what he's going to do next.
Mentions of canon are irrelevant. Dragon Ball is a multiverse, there is no canon but the original Japanese manga. Everything else is a timeline/alternate universe.
I dont think mark understands the dragonball fandom most dragon ball fans have not watched the original dragon ball, they are dragon ball z fans and that is a very different series. Most fans do actually watch for the fights and transformations not the story.
Very smooth brained. Since I feel like the substance is what makes DBZ what it is. DBS is pretty much „just fights and transformations“ and it got old and stale really fucking quick.
Mark... Please tell me you've heard the news...
trev carried the drawings so hard. massive respect. That final shot especially. It's like a memory that doesn't exist. I can almost see it move as an unreleased scene of DBZ. Lovely. Trev is intensely good at drawing the faces, hair, hands and clothing. Massive, massive respect as always
The main problem with Daima: Its a series and not a special.
If it was simply a 30-60 minute special for DB's 40th anniversary, a little filler episode throwback to OG DB before its all wished back, people would reach much more positively to it. But for a new DB series, people were expecting adaptations of the Moro and Granolah arcs, something they've been waiting on forever and with this series schedule, could've been amazing adapted. Its just disappointing to know that Toei could be producing those arcs that actually develop the story but instead focus an entire series on what should be a filler concept.
It's not Daimas problem its the Fans problem. They are extremely greedy always demanding what they want and only what they want. Anything new will be disgusting to them cuz they just want Moro.
Now i even Hope Daima becomes a main stage in Dragon ball story line cuz i feel like Fans don't deserve so much on what they demand. Toriyama, Toei they are doing something they seem to have clear vision for and i have high hopes.
Also watch the dam video before making a bold statement like gyat dayum
@@Rayquaza-Really It really is tho. Sure you can't always give fans what they want, its not like fans are the all knowing people of the series like so many think they are, but throw them a bone sometimes. Its not greedy to want an adaptation of something you've been waiting for years, and don't forget Moro was new but people still liked it.
They're not "greedy" for wanting something more than just a filler series, and in fact desiring Daima to be the main storyline just to spite the fans is very hypocritical and arguably worse. Also, Daima is not a concept that can/should be stretched out into an entire series, its arguably more of a sign of a lack of clear vision since now there's so many storylines going on.
Also the video changes nothing about my statement.
This is what I've been saying the whole time, I want the real story to continue.
@@Rayquaza-ReallyYou think the people working on it werent fans too? Most of the people working on Dragon ball today are fans of the serie and their ideas made some tragic results. Heck, I bet some of them had better ideas from the author or executives (who are fans too) but was outnumbered.
Given the trailers hints to Bibidi with the Buu arc being replayed on the villains screen I believe that the foe of this series is the Universe 6 counterpart to Bibidi that has its own Buu.
That’d be pretty sick ngl
Your grandma had good taste
Mark is right in defending Daima and calling out some dumb criticisms.
We've been used to seeing Goku, Vegeta & co as adults, it's just off putting seeing them suddenly as toddlers espec considering the current age of most of the fanbase which boggles my mind how the ppl who made this decision glossed over that, it's in a way akin to the reboot of Ben 10 in terms of the fanbase's perception.
Imagine the long time fans of Pokemon or Conan being told that Ash or Conan are now gon turn into adults in an instant, it's just stupid.
7:34 This is my absolute favorite part of the video and really puts out there what I've been thinking whenever I've heard these sentiments. I think a big problem with DB is that there's a massive disconnect in the western fandom because there are fans who love the story, the characters, the quirky world and more. But for a good chunk of the general audience? It's not DB they like, it's DBZ. More specifically, it's the DBZ from their childhood, a series intentionally repackaged and reformatted to be a standalone action cartoon that tried to tap into the same bases that liked Mighty Morphin Power Rangers and shows like it. Now that's not an insult, I'm a dude with an Optimus Prime icon, I know what I love but we still see the effects of that to this day where frankly, it seems people treat Dragon Ball as if it needs to deliver constant hype when it's more than that.
And I say this liking Super and being one of the many people hoping to see Moro animated. There was disappointment I felt when Daima was announced and when I saw the Magic leaks. However, that quickly passed since this looks fun and fresh and unlike GT with Akira Toriyama's involvement? I don't feel it's gonna walk back progress just because people cry about it because that's something we forget about GT too. It's not just that it's a bad story but also when the direction wasn't vibing with people, instead of tweaking and improving it? Toei threw up their hands and just turned the show into diet DBZ where more often than not story did not matter and was just set-up, characters were just traits slapped onto action figures and all that mattered was delivering the next spectacle which in GT more often than not looked like complete shit.
Edgy fanboys do not understand art or respect Toriyama as an artist.
@@lwzeis
This. I'm tired of these people constantly wanting everything to be grimdark or just be torture porn.
These are the same people who think AI art democratizes art and is in anyway equivalent to the Digital vs Traditional art debate.
No respect or appreciation for any processes and just devoid of life.
@@lwzeishow are they edgy for wanting good atories
@@niggasmoker89 There's a difference between wanting good stories and what I'm describing. For instance, you could be someone who is not vibing with Daima's idea and that's understandable. But you have people who basically seem to think DB can only be one thing which is constant hype and fights, they want the version of DB that the old dub of Z presented them which this franchise has not been for years.
Yeah, I think Mr. Mark sometimes misunderstands the differences between the Japanese and Western fandom. The original Dragon Ball was hugely popular in Japan, but it remains niche here. Westerners really want more Z--and yes, more GT, to a degree. Everyone loves Super Saiyan 4.
The issue I have with the kid thing is that it feels like we have to rely on that regression of appearance to elicit that sense of nostalgia they’re after. As if you can’t believably make an adventurous story, without making everyone children. And as we’ve seen with Super’s writing, characters’ personal developments like to regress back into previous states seen in OG DB and Z, things they’ve confronted and, realistically, should’ve already learned from, like Goku forgetting concepts like kissing and meditation that he’s seen before, and Vegeta refusing to fuse twice.
At least GT still showed some growth despite the child wish. Goku felt like a seasoned warrior despite his appearance, and VEGETA came forward about fusion against Omega Shenron, proving that his pride came second to his home’s protection. It’s not like I can SAY that Daima suffers from this, because we haven’t seen any of it, but based on what I’ve observed, in theory, this is gonna be rough. I’ll give it a shot though.
I agree so much. And while it’s great that we’re getting more grounded combat, why can’t we have that in the super era? Sure these characters are super strong, but it’s not like they just destroy everything with ki blasts so why do they have to with regular punches and kicks? Why do they have to be kids to have a more martial arts based combat style?
Honestly, I completely agree but an additional criticism I’d add is, daima is a half measure. For the most part, fans wanted a continuation of the story they were on. That’s probably infeasible due to legal bullshit and they wanted to do more grounded stuff. The problem is, you can’t just turn back dragonball 35 years because the series has progressed past that point and regression would be unnatural. The obvious answer would be to set it several hundred years in the future with descendants of Goku and Vegeta, ie Goku jr type story. But of course the marketing won’t have something without Goku *the basically 50 year old man and grandfather* , so they reverse the age of the entire cast without regard for just how weird and unnatural that is, especially considering that around the time of these outfits (BoG) Pan was a fetus, so that’s uncomfortable. So in the end they pleased no one but dragonball fans who will take anything because they couldn’t just set this with a new cast, or at least the actual children of the main cast. And Toriyama’s involvement is a plus but pretending he’s some messiah of amazing storytelling is fundamentally a flawed perspective. He had a knack for improvisation but ultimately he’s very far from infallible.
@@thecod2345 I think I love you, man. And I LOVE THIS THREAD!! Dude. The “set it in the future” idea is great, I don’t know why that WOULDN’T work especially with people knowing about Goku Jr already…. And yknow what’s so odd to me?
So they can’t ditch Goku because the marketing would suck. Right?
But if the marketing of Goku now works…. And many know Goku for being an adult, I’m ESPECIALLY thinking kids today would primarily know him for being an adult (I imagine many current kids here in US don’t watch OG DragonBall). With that in mind- Why even make him a kid to begin with if the show was ALREADY selling to kids just fine? Ya know?
Let’s face it the story was over after z
Oh my God, I hate gt fans.
It's going to be so funny coming back to this video after release, Mark
The blanket statement that Toriyama knows what Dragonball is, for someone who forgets there is SSJ2 or 3 at times, doesn't necessarily like characters like Vegeta, would've never created Cell without studio interference, is as far fetched as stating Disney, or even George Lucas himself, know what Star Wars is (no one wanted the enhanced editions, and thanks to his wife stepping in we got the Star Wars we know and love).
Precisely this.
I think my biggest problem with Daima right now is the character designs, I think the characters look more like chibi versions of themselves rather than kids.
Exactly, you hit the nail on the head.
Especially piccolo, was hoping that it would look more like he did in og dragon ball, akin to dende
Even though I’m the kind of fan who’s way more into the DBZ, GT and Super Broly art style, I’m willing to give it a chance based on the animation alone.
However, the character designs are really throwing me off, they look less like actual kids and more like chibi versions of their adult designs. Can’t say I’m a big fan if modern Toriyama either…
Mark, i know you are raising some good points, but many fans just won't take the time to consider them. First impression is always crucial, and after seeing the trailer for Daima, i'm sure it alienated a lot of fans and they instantly decided they won't like this.
Unless there will be a very good reception to it, and fans will encourage others to try it out, I just don't see it going as well as it could.
DBS ended on a high note and fans were left eager to see when the story will resume. In the meantime we had the cinematic spectacles that were the Broly and Super Hero movie, which further raised fans expectations for the day that the anime will resume.
So getting Daima instead of a continuation of Super must have left many people with a sour taste in their mouth.
It's still way too early to tell how Daima will work, but if it's returning Dragon Ball to the martial arts, then I'm all for it. I got tired of the ever increasing power scaling, the constant beam strugglers, and needless and endless transformations. Dragon Ball works with _themes_ and even during the Buu Saga, it's clear that Toriyama's themes were missing. It's why I never cared for Super _nor_ the manga attached. It was missing something that was vital to Dragon Ball at its core.
Will Daima restore it? Not holding my breath on that one, but I will say for certain that I'd rather see martial arts, important themes, and _LESS_ reliance on new transformations to carry the story. If character development is non-existent or regresses (example of the latter is Vegeta in Super), then I'll have no interest in it.
Well, I didn't follow the developement of daima, hence didn't form an opinion on it. But woah, the chibi style really does bode poorly for me. Also, I thought it would be a retelling of some kind, like path to power. Aging down EVERYONE does indeed feel a tad...awkward
I hope Daima is good
TORIYAMA SAN!!!!!!!!!😭😭😭
I hope it does find that nice mix of stakes again. NGL as a kid one of my favourite episodes of DBZ was the learning to drive episode, and I didn't even fully realise it was filler because I didn't understand filler at the time. But yeah, I've always appreciated those moments between tensions where you actually establish and build the characters that eventually make the stakes meaningful. Like one thing that always made me sad was how they'd brush past training and development in time skips, coz I wanted to see those moments like Gohan learning to survive in the wilds under Piccolos watchful eye. It wasn't about the strength he developed, I just loved the character growth he underwent in the process.
Toriyama really is considered the Japanese George Lucas at this point isn't he? I'm suprised people haven't been labeling him as the Anti-christ yet
the fact ppl are saying "I have high hopes that he's so involved" abt toriyama--the guy who forgot the series was called "dragon ball super" last year, hence why there are 2 "super"s in super hero's title (true story)--is rlly confusing to me. not saying daima can't be good w/ him at the helm but I don't get why ppl are treating his involvement like some assurance it won't be trash
@@tiablue9106 DB fans, especially DBTubers, have ALWAYS hyped up anything Toriyama related. I don't get why. The man was forgetful, I'm sure he'd forget Dragon Ball even existed if he didn't make money off of it.
my main problem with it is that theyll try to make it seem like og dragon ball, but make it more rated E for everyone like super is. I don't think kid goku will impale people with his body in this series.
I think we just have to pray for Colleen Clinkenbeard lmao. She boutta be playing 4 different characters in one show for this dub. She voices Kid Goku, Kid Gohan, Baby Trunks (yes, Baby Trunks does have a voice actress), and Mai.
Where or how can I download these art pieces
Daima feels more like OG Dragon Ball than GT. Can’t wait to see how good the animation will be since this was a 2-3 year project compared to DBS scheduling.
Those that wanted Super2 I’m sure we’ll get it after Daima, gotta wait a little more.
bros everywhere
@@ali_291 I like Dragon Ball, don’t you?
@@PhilUP it’s not an insult, i just find it nice that I see you all over dokkan content and now TotallyNotMark.
It’s because DBZ fans don’t know that OG Dragonball exists, so they call it GT. 😂
Masako Nozawa is currently 87 years old. She doesn't have much "left" to live. The longer it takes DBS 2 to come out the worse it will be. DBS finished in 2018 and they have done nothing with the anime. 5 years wasted.
What I want is a good story with well-choraeographed fights, fun moments, and an affection for the characters.
“Have you seen Dragon Ball?” - Mark Fitzpatrick
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
The fact that he did that with a mouse is extraordinarily wild to me.
I'm pretty sure they usr a tablet with a stylus now a days. 😅
I say you’re wrong for the first point. The similarities are there enough to make that conclusion (of it being GT 2.0). Goku turns into a kid in both shows, and he travels outside of earth on a quest. And the dragon balls were used to make Goku a kid again, and presumably they made (almost) the cast kids again. So in a sense, it can be seen as GT 2.0, despite it obviously not being GT.
Ok that’s your opinion but you don’t have to be mean to mark about it just because you think that doesn’t mean everyone thinks the same so maybe keep that to yourself
@@Artistjames2330I’m sorry that you saw that as being mean. That wasn’t my intention. I was just hammering the points when I probably shouldn’t of.
And no I won’t keep it to myself, thank you.
18:28 I can't help but think the exact opposite of what TNM is saying here. The fact that they are recycling such a tired concept to monetise nostalgia for early DB seems to be a sign that the franchise is currently just as directionless as early GT was, and Toriyama being more involved than usual does not make me more optimistic, especially when the central concept is so unappealing (the man has had a lot of misses to go alongside his successes, after all).
Agreed.
Right, and GT feeling directionless is because Toriyama approved the concept, but then reverted back to the Z format after the ratings were plummeting.
5:39 I get your point, but it’s fallacious in this context.
The creators of the dragon ball super manga have been very creative within the arcs that series, and we want to see it continued in animated form.
We’re not enslaving the creative team at toei by asking them to continue the mainline series.
Imagine a world where the Harry Potter book series is going strong with book 6. We’ve received movie adaptations of the first 3 books, but WB and JK Rowling refuse to release a goblet of fire movie because they want to focus on their spinoff series - fantastic beasts and where to find them.
HP fans would be understandably frustrated
A wonderful analogy, I agree completely.
Man, the redraws were so cool! I'm sad we didn't get one of the original SS1 pose in Daima's style, I'd have loved to see that!
The problem with many criticism that daima received shows that... most of the fanbase are not fans of toriyama or dragon ball but the Z anime exclusively and that explain absolutely everything.
love this take. There’s also the “fighting” nuts. I dont know how to call them but its the side of the fanbase that just wants endless fighting one after the other.
The ones that drool over super dragonball heroes anime claiming its the best thing to ever happen to dragonball
Also the fact it mostly seems like a bunch of dudes around 30 are mad that a show made for kids is being made for kids. I won't say I'm excited for Daima but I'm looking forward to it.
@@Munchticles to be fair, shows typically grow with its fanbase, like adventure time and its spin offs and look at the new digimon films, with one of the exceptions being the pokemon anime. Other than that, I get what you mean about the angry 30 year olds.
@@stygy9929the most ironic thing is that you'll find some of those people disliking DBS Broly
Dragon Ball is nothing like these horrible sequels.
I love how at one point Mark says, that fans don't know what they want and then in the other praises Daima for maybe doing something some of the fans wanted
Just like how the fans are ok with a rehash of Terminator yet not of GT.
So its obvious the "fans" dont know what they want.
i want dragon ball daima! i just didn't know i wanted it until i saw the trailer. and i don't think i'm doing the impossible! i don't know what i want from dragon ball because i was fine when i thought it was over back in the 2000's. everything else is a nice bonus and i'm glad the creators are following the beat of their own drum.
@@dandelionProphet And that's great. It's just that Marks point that fans don't know what they want is bad. It makes the assumption that we're unable to come up with new stuff and only the creators can be so benevolent to bestow Us with something that isn't a copy of what was, while He also mentions fan creations that do exactly that, fresh ideas.
I like when Mark gets into what he enjoys about Dragon Ball…
It’s ✨WORLDBUILDING.✨
✨CHARACTERS✨
✨STORY✨
But from my perspective, Both Toriyama and Toei managed to make all of those elements weaker and less interesting overtime after the Saiyan Saga.
No amount of GT, SUPER, or DAIMA can leave out the fact that Toriyama just isn’t that good of a writer consistently. Toei and Shueisha have to adhere to Toriyama’s often bizarre story choices that seem to make shit worse (like the time he tried to paint that Yamcha was a cheater, or Dragon Ball Minus’s whole existence.)
There was was a time that I enjoyed Dragon Ball, but I think Dragon Ball should be put to rest.
Thank you. It really does need put to rest. And honestly, without Toriyama's involvement in GT, we got Baby and the Shadow Dragons. I thought Super 17 was super cool too.
But GT was the end of Dragon Ball for me, this newer stuff makes me wish it just truly ended there.
When people say they are kids now means its going to be a kids show, I just think of all the Bulma nudity and people kid Goku slaughtered.
Kind of a Dark note but how do you feel about the "Toriyama Touch" you were talking about towards the end of the video since he has now passed away? Does this kind of change things?
Made a lot of good points mark. Only thing I’m not a fan with are the fact that the characters are all kids and babies, just a personal thing probably. Hope it isn’t that last the whole series. Apart from that I’m interested to see what this series will be about. I trust Toryima and look forward to what it may bring. Also beautiful artwork 🐉
I’ve been thinking about why Toriyama/Toei/whoever would choose to do this when you could see from a mile away that everyone would compare it to GT based on these surface level similarities. That just strikes me as a terrible marketing/hype-building strategy. BUT, then again, what if that was totally intentional. What if the whole plan was to use the kid aspect of the series to get vital arguments going online, fueling the feeling that we all HAVE to see how this turns out. That may be a genius gamble if it was intended!
Too genius. More likely, Toriyama had a fun idea that he wanted to try after being more involved with the last two movies than he was during the super anime.
That not likely the case GT perform well as much as dragonball Z and the movies. The reason it failed because it had no merchendise. I doubt they cared about what western audience felt about gt. And in terms of other mediaslike games etc gt is doing pretty well
what's the ending music at 21:04?
My problem is not a GT2.0 complaint. I never thought it was. My problem is it's Dragonball: Babies. I get wanting new stuff, but "thing but babies" isn't a new idea.
This exactly.
I’m actually happy that Daima seems to be shaking things up. I was a little tired of the standard “I’m stronger no I’m stronger no IM stronger now” Dragon Ball fair.
Then watch something else? You don't go to a bowling ally and talk about they should install a tennis court in there
@@MrPikkabo Didn't know that criticism is forbidden.
@@MrPikkabo Nah, this whole thing about forcing ppl to stick to one concept and nothing else is really annoying.
Ppl should be allowed to try new things as this is one of the main concepts of a dictator.
@@MrPikkaboExcept Bowling is a sport that is only played one way. Dragon Ball is an expansive series that can be enjoyed in a multitude of different ways and has proved such in the past.
@@nixuniverse5240 Dont tell that to him as he clearly think it should only be enjoyed one way.
I was so thrown off when I heard ff14 music, otherwise thank you for putting out more art showcases, seeing people draw something they're passionate about is always inspiring
lmao me but w/ the apollo justice music
I get what you're saying Mark, but I'm also skeptical about the chibi characters and I think with good reason. Whenever there is a "Chibi" anime of an established anime, that chibi anime is almost always a "gag-based" anime. Attack on Titan, One Piece, Naruto/Rock Lee all had these types of anime spin offs. And while this one DOES look like it's not going in that path, I think it's fair to say that "Chibi" in anime usually means a focus on silliness, gags, and usually for a younger audience so there is cause for concern.
But on a more down to earth level. The man opened up the multiverse and introduced nearly 70 new characters as well as 4 universes that are still shrouded in secrecy. I would have loved to see an arc with some of these new people.
@totallynotmark you've changed my perspective. I'll watch.
Man...the notion that Daima will at the very least have more Toriyama involvement than literally any project since the original series makes me have the slightest bit of hope that they won't bastardize the characters. Thank you for giving me that tinge of hope Mark.
To be hones every dragon ball thing sinse gt hade the ads saying toriyama is doing everything on this show
Yeah, because look how Toriyama did Future Trunks and Tien in DBS. He definitely didn't destroy those characters.
Completely agree, everyone complaining is insane
@@rokutime2627 He didn't. Trunks is a better character in Super and Tien having his own dojo and having students is perfect for the character
@@thatguyfromA6915 Because he has always been involved on some level but this is the most he has been involved
Big ups to the amazing artists doing this style recreations . Between Mark, Trev and Ajay, watching your processes is always a treat in these
Hearing you compare Daima to an RPG makes me excited!!! Seeing these characters slowly grow on there adventure untill the series ends with them going beyond what we know
I have never heard Dragon Ball described as "Buff aliens throwing lights at each other" and I cannot get over just how fitting that is 😂😂
You have to admit it’s a bad look to use a similar idea to one of the most mixed series in dragon ball history. Had toei just done a super continuation I bet the fanbase wouldn’t have complained at all
Just give us Super 2 already not this teen titans go like series. Lol
Literally the best comparison I've ever seen.
When I saw the Daima trailer, my first thought was one of excitement and renewed hope in official Dragon Ball animation (outside of just movies). That’s only grown since then. So much hype
I think Mark is the only person ive ever heard of that likes dragonball for any reason other than the fights/transformations or watever, like sure everything else isnt awful but its like the MAIN reason just about anyone i know likes it.
You really don’t know the fan base then a lot of people actually like dragon ball for more than flashy fight scenes. I might go as far to say that a lot of the fanbase has literally forgotten what makes dragon ball dragon ball and that is the story and characters.
@@spiro3142 I'm not saying that the fights are the reason Draganball is good, if that were the case then heroes would be my favorite thing. I go into dragonball to see the psycho monkeyman beat the badguy and to see Vegeta get shafted. And maybe it can be funny along the way.
This is just sad
The concept of the fans knowing better for a fan base which the stereotype is that they argue about power levels in a series where every arc resets the power scale. Quite frankly no, fans don’t know what makes a show good. They know what they like and that’s it.
Kinda yes & kinda no. Some “fans” clearly don’t pay attention to details and just want a completely ridiculous canon that doesn’t fit the themes of the story, but on the other hand, real fans who understand the story have come up with awesome theories on where to take a series that could be great with an Authors’ idea incorporated for some twists of their own.
The blanket statement of fans not knowing what they want feels disingenuous to fans who truly understand the series & want to see an author expand on concepts that are lacking
@@finalgaming8053 nah fans don’t know shit. They think they would know better when the bad thing already ended. Even if you gave them everything they wanted they would absolutely find a reason to complain. Shoot, said fans right now are going crazy over a series that Hasn’t even been released yet, at this point I’m starting to believe the only sane people are just the people who enjoy the show and ends it at that.
@@Siaman668No.
The fact it’s title loosely translates to “Dragonball: Big/Great Evil” is very interesting to me and I feel what it may lack in power ups it will make up for in universe lore building.
its a nostalgia bank which ur clearly falling for
I still have some criticisms that would be nice to be shown if there is a follow up video
1. (What toriyama said daima is ganna be) Toriyama’s quote “be ready for a new cute adventure” has me worried. The original dragon ball was a fun adventure, but I never thought of it as a cute adventure. It had hard tension, and if toiryama is saying this, it makes me feel like there is no tension.
2.(the new designs) I still do not like the fact they are kids. The designs at the beginning of the trailer with adult GOKU and Vegeta looked so good and now it’s just a missed opportunity that we won’t be able to see probably until the last episode. I have been really wanting to see adult goku use his power poll again but that’s a personal reason. The real reason why I don’t like it is it does get rid of tension. it’s not fair to say this is like dragon ball because in dragon ball not everyone is a kid. The show still had tension because goku was a kid with a innocent design surrounded people who were evil with serious designs. Now that everyone is a kid, it just removes tension. I’m not ganna be able the take the steaks seriously if the entire group is getting beat with those character designs. They should have just had them stay adults, and if goku needed his powers to be taken away(which I don’t like), make it just that.
3. Having goku have all his powers taken away just feels like akira is trying to take the easy way out. If goku can’t transform he basically rested his growth to atleast the end of buu. If they really want to pull the plug on super, they should just do it already. Say super is non cannon, and give us a new story after battle of gods, because it really feels like that’s what akira wants to do.
4. In conclusion I really hope this isn’t just a cute adventure like toriyama said, and I hope I will be able to take the steaks seriously even with the designs. DAMMIT my adult goku with power poll adaptation nearly happened.
1. What you're referring to was Toriyama saying "different-from-usual battles that are cute and powerful". If that concerns you still, he also says "grand adventure with intense action" so it doesn't sound like it'll be bereft of tension.
2. Multiple characters being kids doesn't inherently remove tension. Also, Goku wasn't the only kid in original Dragon Ball, in fact many characters were, though different ages like Bulma, Krillin, Suno, Chi Chi, and Upa. Dragon Ball has had a number of child characters and it didn't remove or disallow for tension. Also, Mark already basically addressed the aesthetic choice multiple times so if you don't like it, that's fine, but it's on you if you can't take things seriously just because the characters are kids, it's not an objective flaw of the story.
3. Or Toriyama just wants to make something that's more like original Dragon Ball as a way of celebrating it and we don't have to remove Super or act like it doesn't exist just to do it.
4. I defer back to 1 regarding "cute adventure" and whether or not you're able to take the tension seriously is up to you. You get to decide how much the child aesthetic matters to you and how you view the story, it's not an involuntary response, so how you view Daima and whether or not you enjoy it is just your choice.
@@seandobbins2231 I still want my adult goku with power pole god dammit 😡
I’m glad you brought up the issue with some fans thinking fan animations are the way DB needs to go. I have never seen a fan animation or story that TRULY feels like DB. They always either have too much edge just to be edgy or characters don’t really feel like how they are supposed to feel.
Idk about other fandoms but I usually see people complaining about DB when it sticks to its style of story telling but big up the fan animations and while I can see the entertainment in it it is NOT dragon ball and the way to characters act is usually based on DB but it’s always off.
A good chunk of doujins/fan-mangas actually have the characters more consistent with DB than the shell of their former-selves presented in DBS, but okay
My main issue with Daima is the aging down to babies of Trunks (mostly) and Goten. They finally were allowed to grow up and actually contribute, even if Gotenks almost put a damper on their reappearance. (I honestly wish Gotenks would never appear again, since he is more of a ball and chain on the boys' character development) Seriously Trunks thanks to meeting his Future counterpart has all the set up you need to make the character stand out and grow but both boys seemed to be doomed to be nothing but joke fodder. (Also bringing in the Time Patrol would've fixed the Future Trunks arc's ending IMO)
I don't know about others but the thing that really scares me is character regression. Super regressed the characters so much. So, seeing them as kids makes me think that Goku would be even more childish than Stupid Super Goku, Vegeta would regress even more than Super, Gohan and Piccolo will just not exist in Daima. I hope this doesn't happen and they shock everyone. Fingers Crossed