There are now more than 1000 electric busses in Moscow, Russia, and all of them use LTO. The Kamaz-6282 is the most used model and they've got an 80KWh battery that is good for around 50-70km of range (perhaps 5km lower in the Russian winter, but those batteries don't really even need heating as they can supposedly work at up to -40C), so LTO is quite well used for at least three years now. The idea is to drive a regular return route that is 30-40km and to then charge the battery up in 15 minutes at an ultrafast charging station while the bus driver is on a break. Since the battery would mostly be charged from around 25% to 75%, this greatly improves the amount of charge cycles, which is already absurdly high at around 20,000+ before the capacity drops noticeably, and you would still be able to use it.
@@LatutaEV I am not sure about the brand they're using, but they likely use a well-known one like Yinlong as they produce good LTO batteries and they make and sell them in bulk. Being close to China also helps in shipping those batteries by a truckload. And because the chinese manufacturers favour quantity and like to sell big lots at a discount, that also helps decrease the price of an electric bus quite significantly
@@LatutaEV Among other electric busses other than the Kamaz-6282, there is the Liaz-6274 bus (more than 255 are built) that use NMC batteries. They have a slightly higher range and they can also charge using ultrafast charging stations, but they're rated to be used for around 6 years, which may not really be the best choice. Also apparently the Kamaz-6282 uses a diesel heater to warm up the batteries in winter. Since they're rather effective and require little fuel, they do actually make sense, as the routes may take up to 1.5 hours until they can charge up, and spending lots of valuable electricity to warm up the heavy batteries (with lower energy density, so there's a lot of mass to heat up) is just not entirely possible, especially at -20°C or lower.
I bought 300x 24-cell 20Ah repurposed LTO batteries from the Honda Fit two years ago. After using and abusing them this whole time, I finally have a swollen cell. One battery saw a voltage of 80V instead of the maximum 64.8V. I don't know which battery it is though, because I forgot to mark it and they are all testing fine. With conventional lithium-ion, I would just have a fireball.
@@LatutaEV They are powering off-grid telecom equipment and we're also using them as starter batteries for mining equipment. We are converting some mining equipment to electric. Here, weight is not a problem. We already have counterweights anyway. Above all we need batteries that won't turn into a fireball when an excavator accidentally digs into the batteries. Oh! And batteries that still take a charge at -30°C
@@LatutaEV They're heavy. Works out about 1300 watts (maximum discharge) per kilo. Which isn't too bad. Obviously too heavy for the track, but reliability is second to none, which adds to the peace of mind gained by knowing your ride isn't going up in smoke.
Not very soon as most manufacturers are trying to get the highest energy density and they don't care how long your battery lasts. In fact they would prefer it died sooner so you buy a new phone.
This tech is quite old. It's been on the market for decades. The main issue is cost. LTO batteries are expensive. That's the unspoken fly in the ointment of LTO batteries. It's much like flywheel/gyro stabilization systems: nobody ever says it but if you do the research by prototyping such a system, you learn why they're not used to make self standing 2 wheelers. Spinning gyros are noisy(!) so that's the unspoken fly in their ointment.
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There are now more than 1000 electric busses in Moscow, Russia, and all of them use LTO. The Kamaz-6282 is the most used model and they've got an 80KWh battery that is good for around 50-70km of range (perhaps 5km lower in the Russian winter, but those batteries don't really even need heating as they can supposedly work at up to -40C), so LTO is quite well used for at least three years now.
The idea is to drive a regular return route that is 30-40km and to then charge the battery up in 15 minutes at an ultrafast charging station while the bus driver is on a break. Since the battery would mostly be charged from around 25% to 75%, this greatly improves the amount of charge cycles, which is already absurdly high at around 20,000+ before the capacity drops noticeably, and you would still be able to use it.
These are perfect for application as this one - great for cold weather and great for quick recharge.
А какой Бранд батарей они используют?
@@LatutaEV I am not sure about the brand they're using, but they likely use a well-known one like Yinlong as they produce good LTO batteries and they make and sell them in bulk. Being close to China also helps in shipping those batteries by a truckload. And because the chinese manufacturers favour quantity and like to sell big lots at a discount, that also helps decrease the price of an electric bus quite significantly
@@LatutaEV Among other electric busses other than the Kamaz-6282, there is the Liaz-6274 bus (more than 255 are built) that use NMC batteries. They have a slightly higher range and they can also charge using ultrafast charging stations, but they're rated to be used for around 6 years, which may not really be the best choice.
Also apparently the Kamaz-6282 uses a diesel heater to warm up the batteries in winter. Since they're rather effective and require little fuel, they do actually make sense, as the routes may take up to 1.5 hours until they can charge up, and spending lots of valuable electricity to warm up the heavy batteries (with lower energy density, so there's a lot of mass to heat up) is just not entirely possible, especially at -20°C or lower.
I bought 300x 24-cell 20Ah repurposed LTO batteries from the Honda Fit two years ago. After using and abusing them this whole time, I finally have a swollen cell. One battery saw a voltage of 80V instead of the maximum 64.8V. I don't know which battery it is though, because I forgot to mark it and they are all testing fine. With conventional lithium-ion, I would just have a fireball.
Yes they are cool aren't they. What did you use them for? Was it in car application?
@@LatutaEV They are powering off-grid telecom equipment and we're also using them as starter batteries for mining equipment. We are converting some mining equipment to electric. Here, weight is not a problem. We already have counterweights anyway. Above all we need batteries that won't turn into a fireball when an excavator accidentally digs into the batteries. Oh! And batteries that still take a charge at -30°C
@@BullCheatFR wow that is really cool, where you getting the batteries from?
I've been waiting a long time to find a good source of LTOs but I don't have one, and new cells are ultra-expensive.
I'm using Toshiba scib 20ah cells for a 36s 2p pack. It's capable of 60kw bursts and will never need replacing (not in my life anyway)
Wow cool I would like to try them as well
@@LatutaEV They're heavy. Works out about 1300 watts (maximum discharge) per kilo. Which isn't too bad. Obviously too heavy for the track, but reliability is second to none, which adds to the peace of mind gained by knowing your ride isn't going up in smoke.
@@colinriches1519 If you look at other comments someone commented that they used a lot in trucks in Russia
Currently doing research on how to recycle this batteries in a blackmass mix :)
Interesting, I guess Titanium oxide may be possible to just melt it down?
LTOs are the best there is but the price is x10 LFP/NMC at this point.
Yes unfortunately that is the case. It would be interesting to try this as a hybrid battery
@@LatutaEV I'm already in progress with an unique project that unifies LFP and NMC. Unfortunately, I don't have the $ to complete it just yet.
I agree
When can we see phones using LTO batteries? Typically, bms average life span is 3-6 years.
Not very soon as most manufacturers are trying to get the highest energy density and they don't care how long your battery lasts. In fact they would prefer it died sooner so you buy a new phone.
Can’t hear you from all the background music
Thank you for your feedback and sorry about high level of the background music. I have improved this for my recent videos
low power consumtion in high price is the solution.
I am sorry I am not sure I understand your comment
LTO vs Lifpo4 hem.
Not sure what you mean
Martin Donna Hernandez Matthew Walker Charles
@@AttleeLarry-p5i who is he
with this video LTO is gonna catch on fast with the DIY'ers
Not sure about that 😃 but it's unique properties could be useful
No, because of the price.
@@ForgottenGamesAndMods we can only hope for more adoption to bring the price down
Vote for lifepo4 battery😅
It is becoming popular these days
This tech is quite old. It's been on the market for decades. The main issue is cost. LTO batteries are expensive. That's the unspoken fly in the ointment of LTO batteries. It's much like flywheel/gyro stabilization systems: nobody ever says it but if you do the research by prototyping such a system, you learn why they're not used to make self standing 2 wheelers. Spinning gyros are noisy(!) so that's the unspoken fly in their ointment.
Yes but often old tech gets implemented in a new way and you have a new breakthrough. Look at Axial flux motors that was an old tech too ;-)
who cares about the cost when they can last up to 30 years