I was wrong about Lithium Titanate batteries. But should you use them for solar? 2020 Update
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
- Sorry about the bed hair. I need a hair cut.
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Contact Information:
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Join the forum at diysolarforum.com/ if you wish to hang out with myself and others and talk about solar
FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers:
Every video includes some form of paid promotion or sponsorship. Some links on this youtube channel may be affiliate links. We may get paid if you buy something or take an action after clicking one of these. My videos are for educational purposes only. Information is subject to change/update at any time. Electricity is DANGEROUS and can kill. Be smart and use common sense :)
DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program,
An affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com
being confident enough to admit mistakes to large crowds....is a tremendous asset. Everyone makes mistakes...even the great will prowse....(I am a fan)....now we all got to learn a bit more about things from your mistake....thanks...these are the kind of things that create life long supporters...and I'm one.
me two!
Very well said, I agree.👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
This is one of my favorite things about him. He’s not afraid to admit mistakes and provide updated information. He should do a video with Jehu Garcia!
That's why you won't be seeing him running for office in the future. Honesty and humility is not a prerequisite as a politician. LoL
@@rmdjapri Me THREE!!!!
Much respect . Most don't admit that kinda thing.
One can appreciate the humility of your attitude regarding your work. I enjoy the informative videos you provide and encourage you to keep up the good work.
Good admission! Seen a vid where a guy said you were mistaken. A good person admits their mistakes. We all make mistakes and I appreciate you owning up. You have a great channel bro! Happy Thanksgiving!
at least Will , should win 1st place for the best hair
Got a little mad scientist going on today :P
He cuts it himself.
It's all that electricity lol!
He’s wearing the same clothes from last nights live so I am going with he rolled outta bed and went to work.
SuperPeteJames ditto. Lol
Yet another reason Will is my go to channel for any solar questions I have. I've been watching him back when he was living in RVs! Way to go Will!
Man, we always know you'll serve up the truth! Thanks for revisiting Titanate - as others have said, it takes integrity to clear up mistakes & misunderstandings, and I really do commend you for that. You provide thoughtful and reasoned explanations for what chemistry is ideal for different applications. The fact that we may not consider Titanate the most ideal chemistry for solar power systems doesn't mean it's not incredible technology! I always appreciate your critical approach because at the end of the day, it's just too easy to convince ourselves that things are either 100% good or 100% bad. Life - and battery chemistry, alike - is typically a bit more nuanced than that :)
It is so refreshing to hear someone calling sources out and saying it as it is, without the typical b.s.
And you use the same approach to yourself. I love how you are purely about the knowledge and discovering ways to push new battery tech with new inverter tech with new solar tech to their limits. And your own limit.
Bro, I love your channel. I have learned so much. Thank you for all that you have taught me. It has made a huge difference in my family’s lives.
Love your sincerity and honesty and your knowledge never ceases to amaze me. Keep producing these videos.
I'm running Toshiba's LTO cells in my 71 Harley build. They are heavy. Twice the weight of lithium ion however the benefits out weigh that. I'm very impressed with what I've found. I have a 60 mile range and can achieve speeds in excess of 90mph. Being able to not need cooling or heating is great! I can use all available regen and I can charge with almost any power source. Not to mention I've got 108 cells that I have yet had to balance. 🤷🏼♂️ Plus thinking I can leave these to my family when I pass or the ability to repurpose them into any application I want in the future is a huge +!
108 cells on a harley? suuuuuure!😂
@@ernieschatz3783 each brick has 12 cells 9 bricks equals 108. Unless I missed something while building it. Lol! 🤷🏼
Nice to see som usefull stuff again, not only your car, your house, your cats or your other stuff.
Keep it up man, your still my nr1 youtuber 👊👊👊
You must've had a dream about this video, looks like as soon as you woke up....you ran to the camera! LOL, love your stuff, Will.
Thanks. This video clarifies everything with respect to the differences between LTO & LiFePO4. Both have their advantages and places. You can puncture or freeze an LTO but LiFePO4 is perfect for me in a warm climate.
The safety of these should be put into the equation of application. Efficiency, life span, temperature range, and large currents is a list that combines to make a stronger factor than individually. I am sure there is overlap of chemistries in use situations. Thinking of the whole system and how it interacts with other components and requirements is the path to finding a fit. Often a good fit is more usable than a system of the best components.
"Often a good fit is more usable than a system of the best components." Very wise words.
Having the integrity to correct an error will serve you. Don’t let the losers who attack you to try to raise themselves get under your skin. You have one of the most informative and honest channels in this media. Keep on track and it will be rewarded.
Only honest people accepts ones mistakes
It shows great character and profound respect
Great job keep it up
I think they are perfect for a garage/out building shop where you need high amp out put to run an electric motor for an hour or 2 and you don’t temp control the area.
I think they're great for telecommunication towers.
We use 24v DC systems. This would help with the long term cost of keeping a highsite running with backup power.
Would also combat the theft problem due to their weight.
Good job on seeing your mistakes! Respect
Congrats on redoing this, admitting the errors in your earlier videos, and just being you. :)
Yes, these have negatives as compared to LiFePO4, but they are a valid option with some positives when using A Grade cells. (The biggest issue I see is for people wanting to use only a 12V system, but most home setups will be either 24V or 48V.)
I love my 100 Ah LiFePO4 DIY battery I built after watching Will's videos. I used Sinopoly cells, a Daly BMS and a water tight plastic amo case. It works great in my sailboat to power my 12 volt systems and 40# thrust trolling motor. I charge the battery with Renogy 100W suitcase panels. I just bought another, so 200W next summer. :) Thank you, Will, for showing me the way!
Thanks for your honesty and a simple mistake is expected from us all. Great job with what you do and thanks for the information as it is very important to us DIY people. Looking forward to your future videos and ideas!
I do like the video Will well done. Thanks for the test results as it directly relates to my LTO batteries. I see you point about lithium phosphate batteries. They are the best and I agree with that. For me it is the cycle life that grabs me and the low temperature charging. As you mentioned in the future other types, maybe solid state, and yeah changes will come as time passes by, and so will the batteries I will use. Enjoyed the live stream chat last night. And thanks for addressing LTO batteries and the issues you talked about. Great stuff !!
Respect Will! Thanks for clearing things up.
Thx man, I really like you videos. Is really helpful to avoid mistakes.
Best wishes from Germany
Great update. Always learn something from you Will.
Thanks buddy 😁👍
Much respect for correcting a previous video.
I like how you put people in their place with facts.
It's not biased to advocate for the appropriate technology for an application. I've watched a fair amount of your videos all seem fair. Thank you for your sincere content.
Good video! Just keep doing what you are doing. The more successful you get the more there's people with differing opinions. All you can do is go off the best information you have at any given time. I hope the comments don't ware you down or change you. Stay positive, you do great work!
Much respect from a British Subscriber. And Happy Thanksgiving.
LTO is most used lithium type in car audio at the moment. Works very well for that application and majority of cars can handle 15-16V charging voltage. No one uses BMS but I've seen some using balancers. I don't have any because after half a year of use the voltage difference between cells was only 0.01V, I had the cells in paraller for 24 hours before assembly
Cant help but feel this dudes passion ! He is just rocking!! Wow
Puts out video just as I'm looking at these, hmm the fast charging is what interested me and the temp range..
Another great, honest and reliable video. Thanks Wil
You deserve lots of credit for making this video and explaining how nd why you made a mistake. Most people's ego would not even think of believing they could be wrong or admit they where incorrect.
Nice video. It was great to see you get results consistent with others. Obviously, charge rate and having grade A batteries will make a huge difference in results. The large dynamic range of this chemistry is interesting to me. Finding the right application might be a home run for this type of battery. Thanks for all the effort you put into your videos. It's greatly appreciated.
Integrity is very RARE here on TH-cam. Very refreshing Will!
Can you get your hands on some alternate technologies like zinc bromide flow batteries and test them? I know Redflow out of Australia makes a good zinc bromide flow battery.
Great video as always Will. Very informative.
Thanks for the info. I just bought my first 16 cells of lithium iron phosphate. Thanks for the quality content.
Be careful. They are addictive.
Thanks for your open honesty!
Will, Most of your viewers know your are 100% genuine and honest. Viewers that think your a shill are completely off there rocker, or maybe there meds. Well done.
Thanks for your input man, love this channel. I really like the temp range and low cycle degradation ! Could have some great applications up here in Canada !
if there is one thing us human All have alike is we all have made done said mistakes. now as for people who can catch correct and be willing to admit those mistakes well those are the rare and exceptional folks like yourself sir keep up the good work.
Very informative, appreciate your honesty Will, definitely not a trait many have these days...thank you!
Will, you are really, really good at this.
I am just here to learn. Thanks for the update.
Well done. I will resume watching your vblogs!
Oh dude, far out...whatever you said, it sounds heavy, but I dig it. Keep those honest awesome vids coming cuz my cool flop loves being off grid. 🥰👏
Excellent review of your prior review! 😎👍
Thanks for setting the record straight
Can you explain the different grades of LiFePO4 Battery's, had someone try telling me there isn't grades on them. Thanks and a very nice video.
awesome work! You got my trust to follow your guidelines to build with Lipo batteries.
great video!! are you planning on doing any more videos on the fortune lifepo3 batteries?
Thanks . very interested in LTO. Appreciate your honesty.
Nice! Was waiting for this video, I saw that call out and was like... will will see this and he will get to the bottom of it.
Will great info....was over my head. Couldn't concentrate was lookin at your hair 😄
Hi Will, it seems the perfect battery to be put in a container with solar on top in a climate where timeperature will be between -10c and 30+C especially when the location might see weeks unmanned with no charge (as these batteries won't die when they are pulled low) .
How do you feel feel about that? (currently running classic wet (open) lead acid batteries as they seem quite OK in cold and they are cheap!
Thank you Will, you just proved why the Elechive by Zero Breeze has a 35v min voltage for solar charging. They even made their 100w panels to act like a 24v panel ("Our 100w panel is customized with the output of 35V."). Just what we don't need. I canceled my order when they started flip-flopping between 400w solar and 800w solar charging.
Still. I look forward to your review, as they said they were sending you one.
You can set custom settings in BMS for balancing.
You're still awesome Will, screw what some others say. Keep doing what you do. Oh and love the Tesla. Peace
Very clear and well explained. Thank you for the information.👍
My system is a 48v hybrid off-grid system. I put together two 48v 200Ah Lifepo4 and hook the two in parallel to get 400Ah. Almost always when supplying load to till it cut off point. 1. How come the other 48v tray does not drain to its lowest cut off voilts? And when the system charges back up.
2. Does it suppose to charge one tray at a time?
I all so heard you have mention in one of your clip saying that battery do not like to be parrarel .
3. LIke to know why and how to make it like one another so it can supply load equally?
THanx for information. keep up the good work.
Good job Will. Everything has it's place, and LTO's could make for a better solar system if you really need them AND if you can afford the technology. If you can't use something because you can't pay for it, then it doesn't matter what it can do for you.
Hey Will, I have also done a few tests on my cells and I have discovered that when I do a one C charge / discharge at -15 degrees F. I receive roughly 85% of the capacity when compared to one C charge / discharge at 70 degrees F.
These cells are perfect for cold weather applications when I use a 24 volt -> 12 volt converter. I lose roughly 5% in efficiency, but I need these cells to work in negative temps for the application that I have without the cells being destroyed.
What 24 to 12 volt convert could you suggest for me? I work in cold Temps so I am going to try this route. Thanks in advance!
@@entune85 I bought from AliExpress the RCNUN model RC241230L as 30 amps was plenty for me. I tested it using the 150 watt discharge tester Will demonstrated in one of his videos. I tested with a load of 150 watts on the output side, and saw an incoming draw of roughly 156 watts. So that would be slightly better than the advertised 95% efficiency.
I'd put them in an insulated air tight box something that would hold in the warmth and not lose it.
@@herbertwerner2287, I do not trust or want to risk an insulated box being able to keep the temp above freezing. I have a remote hunting cabin where I attached a solar Panel to charge a bank of 8 LiFepo4 batteries that I put in a 50 gallon plastic barrel that I dug into the ground. This works great as the ground is above freezing because of the insulation we put down. I have a breathing tube and access panel as well.
@@Aaron_Peters Oh I see Aaron, ya I didn't know you where doing that I thought you were asking for an idea of how. I like your idea, I had thought of that myself and then forgot about it. Plus I would just think that might be all around safer to have them where if anything were to go wrong with them they would be in safer place.
Appreciate your integrity!
I have a LG 6s BMW LTO as a 12volt car battery! Here in Illinois it comes in handy, due the winter months!
Seen too many guys lead acid battery freeze during winter!
Smart idea
@Will I live in Minnesota and want to have a system in a cold storage environment. I was thinking these would be great for that since the temps will get below -20F regularly. I’m willing to spend the money, but want to make sure that I’m spending it wisely. What are your thoughts?
No one is perfect Will. But you are damn close to perfect. Lol. You have no idea how many old ladies watch your videos. Seriously. Out of the 55+ year old women that are nomadic about 75% know of you and equally love you and are so proud of you. Brings tears to my eyes. Seriously. You are every mom and grandmas dream child. Just know you are loved by many. Thank you for being you.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THESE VIDEOS. HIGHLY INFORMATIVE!!!
Bonus points for the correction. I still think those may be the ticket for my weekend home rail caboose I am building. I am in between heating a LifePo4 pack to +5C when needed or go with this chemistry and it just works. I need to run from -10C and up.
I like your confident.thanks for sharing such a helpful videos
Love you will. You do good job explaining stuff.
Question where do you get your BMS for the Lithium Titanate Battery and why can't you use 5 in series?
The discharge curve for these batteries is 2.1 volts to 2.8 volts per cell, so with 5 cells at minimum 10.5 volts to 14 volts fully charged.
Hi Will, I watch and have learned a great deal about solar from your videos. I look forward to seeing more testing with lithium titanate batteries as I’m vert interested in them. I understand they get hotter, but aren’t they a safer overall chemistry? Thanks for the videos!
Has your opinion changed on lto batteries at all since you put this video out? I'm only asking since I'm trying to decide on what battery technology to use on my future 48v off grid build.
Can I build a power wall array for my house,will those be efficient ?
Are these ideal for e-bike battery?
Great job explaining Will. Its NMC for me for now. If I ever ware out my Tesla bank I'm going to switch to lithium ion phosphate. I would love to build a portable High amperage welder using LTO cells.
good work, appreciate the candor :)
Great job correcting it
Hi Will, what do you think of using 6S LTO + active balancer, for 12V car battery replacement? To me the benefits (wide temp range, cycle life) outweigh the drawbacks (~80% capacity on 12V system, relative weight & expense). In a car battery replacement application, I don't need >95% capacity/efficiency, and if I can use a balancer instead of a high-current BMS, that reduces the materials cost by ~$100. Compared with LiFePO4, with which I'd always use a BMS, it's becoming an attractive idea even in warm climates.
I would like to see you building and testing Super Capacitors for solar.
I like your bed hair! I would even had recognized it until you mention it.
Good video Will!Thanks!
Hey Will, how long would a bb last if it never went below 90% charge each day? I'm wondering bc I've seen a few RV systems and a lot of the folks say they never go below 90-80% which makes me wonder if that is even considered a charge/discharge cycle and would the battery last extremely long in that condition?
Also, if you never go below 80% charge do you have say 60% more batteries then you need?
Thanks a lot
Great integrity and video.
When the cost comes down, I am really attracted to the idea of getting 55 years (before they get to 80%) out of them in a solar application. That makes potentially a several hundred year use case...
I bet in a low temperature environment the calendar life will be extended.
You mention price of cells. Could you do an updated cost per kw for the various Lithiums including used cells vs new ones and the grades? I'm specifically interested in surplus car batteries, LifePo4 (new) and LTO (new).
I would love to see how you would set this up for VanLife
Hey Will, question for you why not use a boost buck (dc-dc) converter so the voltage issue is a mood point?
Thanks for making a video on that, and showing the errors. I and few other TH-cam users did point to you about these issues few months ago, so good you finally done some other tests.
I agree LTO, are a niche, and generally not preferred for solar. As of calendar aging, well, that is still something I would love to see, because there are different opinions on this. LTO still is good for very high C rates (~10C), even if it means lower efficiency in energy itself. I don't know what exactly applications require 10C, but maybe some power tools, or spot welding, could benefit from it. I believe the LTO do have really good cold temperature performance, so maybe there are some applications where it matters too, and are inherently safe. Like satellites, with frequent temperature swing, and a lot of cycling in short time.
That system would be too complicated, not to mention all the trouble one has to go through to get the authentic batteries! Thanx for your honest input, like you I’ll stick to lipo 4 until the technology gets better! 👍
Luckily you did a little ;-) That wouldn't have kept me away from going to use LTO on my scooters to transport the necessary energy. Thanks for giving the basics. And my trials will let me see how good LTO will be performing in real day-to-day use.
Do you have any info on the new Tesla batts. on any of your vids.
Great video . We all stumble or are wrong at times . But owning up to it or not , shows ones character . Be safe ,, Gubs
Did you consider the differences between manufacturers and chemistrys of those LTO cells? I'm currently researching this chemistry, and found out that LiShen for example has a nominal voltage of 2.5v, ShengQuen has cells of 2.4 and 2.3v nominal, and Yinlong is also 3.2v nominal. But according to the datasheets, those Yinlong cells can reach 80-90% capacity at 14,4V at 6S, while the ShengQuen cells only reach 60-75%, no matter if you take the 2.3 or 2.4v nominal cells. You also mentioned 3V/cell, could that mean you are allowed to charge a 5S bank to 14.4V? That's 2,88v per cell instead of the recommended 2,8v.
We still did not get our hands on these cells, so I don't know what cells perform best at 14.4v.
Have you reveiwed the Liitokala 280 ah lifepo4? Ive looked a few times i havent found anything. If so what do you think about them? Thanks for any info of help you can provide.